Original subtitles

[car alarm blaring]

The thing inside of me, it's like,

the appetite, it's like a wolf that's...

feeling...the hunger.

[indistinct radio chatter]

[officer] You've got two [indistinct] units

headed your way. [continues indistinctly]

[officer 1] Hey!

[Dr. Vienna] Vos being the career criminal he is, from the get-go,

he's already trying to control the narrative by lying

and avoiding responsibility.

He's running from the police even though

they're calling his name. He's a well-known gang member.

He has this long history of violence that he got involved

in the justice system very early at 16 years old.

And over the decade and a half after his first encounter in

the justice system, he seems to establish himself as

a persistent violent offender, but he thinks that he can

outrun them and outsmart them.

So, part of psychopathy is engineering and manipulating

the people around you.

There's a Machiavellian element in that as well.

And I think that's what he's hoping to do.

He's got to feign he's full of genuine feelings,

because then he has a story to tell.

Whereas someone in a regular, in a grieving moment,

isn't always concerned about getting the story out.

They're usually in shock about something.

So, this would be a performance.

He knows that there's a camera on

and that it's being recorded. He's been in the system before.

So, he would know that.

So, I would view that as a way of beginning to set the stage

for what's the alibi he's gonna tell,

the story he's gonna tell.

In this case, where Vos at first says,

"I would like an attorney present,"

which is probably the best idea,

but he can't help himself.

This narcissistic control, where you need to feel like

you are in control of the situation,

you're controlling other people, but all in a way that

paints yourself in a good light.

So he wants to assert himself, even though this probably isn't

in his best interest.

But in his mind, he thinks,

"They'll never catch me."

[Dr. Morgan] I think his expressions about that,

like, "I want this to blow off me" --

you're hearing some honest expression of

what he is hoping, and that he's aware, he's feeling,

OK, I am a target of this,

and I have to figure out now how to have

this move on, so that I'm no longer

the focus of it all.

That desire not to be accountable for what we do in

life -- we see that in psychopathy.

They want to be able to do stuff

but not pay any of the consequences for it.

So that's the avoidance of punishment.

I think when Vos is describing his relationship

with Shandon, it's sort of very superficial.

It's almost like it's transactional.

He's minimizing his harm to her.

He's, you know, acknowledging a little bit of

the emotional harm, but what he's really doing is

minimizing any of the physical violence

that he enacted upon her.

And so it's sort of like he's taking selective

responsibility, and that allows him to appear somewhat honest

with police, but in reality, it's just more him controlling

the narrative of what he wants them to know.

When Vos asked the detective, "How many times was she shot?"

I don't think he's actually that concerned because this is

the first time in this entire interview

he's actually asking about Shandon's condition

or anything that happened to her.

The information is actually one of the most important things.

What information they can use against you, that they have,

that other people know -- that's a huge asset for people

that want to maintain control and have this narcissistic

tendency to maintain control of information, so they always

look like they're in the best light.

We saw him rocking and kind of crying earlier and going,

"It should have been me."

But now he's kind of matter of fact.

He's careful in what he has to say.

He's eating chips and just sitting there picking away.

So just when you look at the setting and you back up

from it, his calm demeanor doesn't really match

the severity of the situation that he's in, having just lost

a loved one, if that narrative was true, or realizing that

they're gonna accuse me of murdering my girlfriend,

and you would expect a different posture from

a normal person, and we just don't see that with him.

[officer] Hands down!

[Dr. Fox] With grandiosity, we often think that people want

to be loved.

"I want to be viewed so positively

and so well regarded,"

but for some people, grandiosity comes out as fear.

They want to be feared. They want to be respected.

They want to have this obligation to obey them,

but it comes not because of love and joy

and willingness to comply.

Vos sounds like he absolutely controls Shandon through

violence and fear. He's full of rage.

He's not concerned about his girlfriend, Shandon,

so he's got such a lack of affect and empathy

for this person he's supposed to care about.

It's just a true callousness.

And meanwhile, being so manipulative,

he always finds a way to pull her back.

So Shandon's friend sees all of this, and I think

she's identified many core features of psychopathic traits.

He's changing the narrative now.

He's reframing this as, you know, it's reactionary.

It's like he panicked.

And it's almost like it's setting it up for

a defense as well.

But I think in terms of telling that story to his family,

it's setting up the stage for, you know, "Feel sorry for me."

You know, "I'm the victim here."

You know, he's trying to get something out of them still.

They're gonna continue to support him while

he's in custody, so he's trying to

continue engagement with them,

but in reality, it's very transactional.

You know, he's serving them a narrative that gets him

something that he needs or wants.

I think the part was he probably already knows

what's gonna happen, but he's thinking,

"I want to get as much as I can out of this, throughout."

And even just toying with these prosecutors and police.

That's fun for him. He can make the news cover it.

He can also make sure the prosecutor feels demeaned

by him, where he's winking at her and showing,

"I don't respect you."

And in his world, respect means the most.

And it's glib, but in his world,

glibness isn't being admired, it's being feared.

That's what he wants.

If he can exhibit those behaviors that make someone

feel something about him that he wants, it's still control.

It's just that what his goal was --

not about being loved, it was about being feared.