Original subtitles

The family's fears confirmed.

A 98-year-old woman murdered in her own home.

The senior lived in her Wadsworth home for

50 years, and the fact that she was killed in a safe place

she loved is unimaginable.

Family had reported Douglas missing

when no one could reach her.

Police didn't realize her body was hidden until

a second search of the home.

That's a very difficult thing because, you know,

just the thought of someone

taking another person's life that is 98 years old.

The thing inside of me, it's like...

the appetite, it's like a wolf that's...

feeling... the hunger.

It's easy for us to think about Ramsay's contact with

law enforcement as kids being kids, boys being boys,

acting out in these impulsive ways.

But it's important to pay really close attention to what

he says when he's asked about breaking into these cars.

And to his own mother, he blames the victims.

It was their fault for leaving their car doors open.

And that attitude of not only blaming

the victims, but feeling entitled to do what

you want when you want, and that anything you want is

yours for the taking, is the beginnings of that

breeding ground that we see with psychopathic offenders.

That thinking that people are objects,

people are transactional.

Things and people and experiences are there for

their own amusement, entertainment,

and their own needs and wants.

At this point in the interview,

Ramsay is really leaking clues to police.

He's not being brought in necessarily for the murder of

Margaret Douglas, but you can see that he's spiraling down,

losing control, and through that he's,

you know, just exhibiting this anxiety that he's worried

about something else.

It's not that he feels guilty

for whatever he's being accused of.

He's not feeling empathy for any of these victims.

What we're seeing is his concern for being exposed

for what he did and consequences that are

coming for him.

I think the fact that he has such a long rap sheet at such

a young age kinda really emphasizes he's antisocial.

Like, societal norms, they don't apply.

They don't deter him from doing whatever he wants to do.

And the fact that he's kind of not that great at covering it

and explaining it, I think that does speak to his lack of

life experience, you know, kind of learning how he's supposed to

act and learning the kinds of things that people are

sympathetic to or understanding to.

You know, he's still trying to figure it out.

Contrary to the vague information that Gavon leaves

the detectives with, his phone is a wealth of detail.

What becomes clear to detectives is not only did

he murder the victim, but he humiliated her in death.

He preyed on her sexually.

He took the time to create still images and videos of

his paraphilic interests, of his paraphilic acts.

This is someone who defiled an elderly woman after she died

and then captured much of it on his phone.

But what we also see is a level of criminal sophistication

because Gavon Ramsay took the time to put these videos

and still images in a locked vault.

And that digital vault had a password of "murder."

This is someone whose fantasies and urges were absolutely

developing in a sadistic way.

They were absolutely developing in a way that

objectified people.

And ultimately, can we think of him as a blooming sexual

psychopath or say that he bloomed because

Margaret's dead and she was victimized and defiled in a way

that most of us have a hard time digesting?

I think at this point, Gavon Ramsay is sort of trying

to manipulate the situation with police.

He's giving an account of, you know, he was impulsive.

This was circumstantial, situational.

He just, you know, didn't know what he was doing.

He's purporting this image of being confused.

But we're not seeing any confusion.

He has stalking behaviors.

He's engaging in pathological lying right here

in this interview.

So all of those factors coupled together is really highlighting

his pattern of predatory violence,

not that this was situational.

This was instrumental and goal-directed.

Ramsay's superficial attempt at leaving the detectives with

the idea that he feels remorse or regret somehow for

the crime is his explanation that he was feeling

an adrenaline high but also shock.

And while the two can coexist, he stayed in the home

for over two hours.

That is not the behavior nor are any aspects of this crime,

the doings of somebody who's in shock or suspended with fear

or overwhelmed by their own actions.

This is somebody who got a high off the crime, savored it,

relished in it, memorialized it.

For him to now be faced with and confronted with

in daylight,

the fact that he committed sexual acts upon the deceased

victim, given her age, given her vulnerability,

given that she was deceased when he did these things

and given some of the tools he used,

condiments found in her fridge, to

engage in these sex acts and then took time to film them,

to take snapshots, to take videos, but he's not

struggling with the fact that he did these things,

he's struggling with the fact that he's now been found out,

and there's a collision between his public self

and his private self.

He comes across as callous.

There's not a lot of affect in describing this.

You don't see that remorse at what he did to her.

You know, you see some lamentation of like,

well, now I'm gonna get in a lot of trouble.

And he's sort of resigned to that.

But in terms of like regret, empathy, you know, the kinds of

things that you look for, you know,

especially when it's a 17-year-old,

the absence of that is really striking.

He has a sense that he's not like other people and then

actually uses the term "psychopath."

It's sort of a glimpse into

the idea that he's read about this.

It's something that he's looked into in an effort to try

to understand himself.

'Cause he recognizes that he's different, and he's trying to

maybe figure out why or even how to manage it,

how to handle things.

And there's a hint that maybe he's sort of read about it,

and that's why he's kind of

able to answer the question the way he does.

The fact that Ramsay is speaking about engaging

in potential future violence speaks to the trajectory of

where his behavior is going.

These are early indicators that he would become

a violent psychopath.

I think it does mean that there would be potentially more

rape victims, more victims in general.

I think starting out with Margaret Douglas,

it kind of highlights that he was just testing the waters,

because she was older and more vulnerable.

And now that he's mastered what he's wanting to achieve,

he could move on to different kinds of victims.

Ramsay's journal writings show someone who admired murders,

had a ranking system for serial offenders and serial killers.

He seemed to admire and fantasize and value

in a positive way killing, rape, violent interactions with

people and victims.

And there's no real indication that he was disturbed by it.

It's all matter-of-fact research for him,

written as if they were book reports for school.

This is somebody who is ratcheting up his sexual

fantasies and paraphilic interests rapidly.

And instead of looking at that and saying,

"I need to get help,"

he's romanticizing it.

He's given himself over time, likely, permission

to act on his fantasies.

And that's what brings us to the crime.