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[Elíana VO] Mitch
was trying to helpful,
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00:00:09,134 --> 00:00:10,927
and he...
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00:00:10,969 --> 00:00:13,847
started cleaning
the floor first.
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00:00:14,139 --> 00:00:17,142
And I'm like, "Hey, bro, like,
you're gonna be working twice
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00:00:17,183 --> 00:00:18,685
'cause you still have to
clean off the counter,"
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00:00:18,727 --> 00:00:21,146
and he's like, "No, I
won't," and I'm like,
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"Okay..."
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00:00:21,938 --> 00:00:23,565
And instead of having the
conversation with him of, like,
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00:00:23,606 --> 00:00:26,693
"Hey, I am telling you...
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00:00:26,735 --> 00:00:28,361
to please do it this way,"
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but instead, I just said,
"Okay," and I let it go.
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Do you have a guess
on what I'm gonna say?
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00:00:34,743 --> 00:00:36,536
That I have OCD?
[laughs]
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00:00:36,578 --> 00:00:37,871
Do you have OCD?
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-I-- you were joking...
-[Elíana] Yeah.
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00:00:39,247 --> 00:00:40,373
-You do?
-[Elíana] Yeah, I do.
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00:00:40,415 --> 00:00:43,960
I was first
diagnosed with, like,
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00:00:44,002 --> 00:00:45,962
four types of OCD.
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Um, like, "organized chaos"
is one of those things.
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[Orna] Mm-hm.
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Um...
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-counting is another...
-Mm-hm.
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So you have very
specific methods?
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00:00:56,806 --> 00:00:59,267
Yeah, like when I
look at my kitchen...
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-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-I start with my kitchen table,
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00:01:01,436 --> 00:01:03,897
and, then, like, two,
three, four, and five.
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00:01:03,938 --> 00:01:04,730
-Like...
-[Orna] Numbered.
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Yeah, like, numbered in my head.
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00:01:06,107 --> 00:01:06,566
[Orna] Mm-hm.
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It really is like
a very organized,
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methodical OCD regime
of how to do things,
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and it's gotta
happen that way for you.
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-Yeah.
-[Orna] Right.
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It's very good to have
OCD people in one's life...
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00:01:18,119 --> 00:01:19,245
[laughs]
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[laughing] I
don't-- I don't know.
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But it won't work if you
apply it to your partner.
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-That makes so much sense.
-[laughs]
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[chuckling] That
makes so much sense.
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♪cool theme music♪
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♪curious chill music♪
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I had asked him about
not having children,
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and when I would talk to
him to seek his opinion,
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I don't get an
opinion, so I feel--
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Can I hear the two
of you talk about it?
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[both chuckle]
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Like, just...
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Oh, like, for example,
what I would--
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[Orna] Yeah, let's hear it!
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Let's-- why don't you
try to discuss it now,
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and I'll listen to how--
what's going on there?
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We lead a busy life.
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My schedule is...
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morning, day, and night.
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Yeah, but what if our
schedules were perfect?
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00:02:42,704 --> 00:02:43,997
If we had normal schedules...
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Then, would you say you would...
definite if we want a child?
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If we were
there for the kid?
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Yes.
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00:02:50,753 --> 00:02:54,257
To say it fully, "Yes...?"
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Yes, that would work.
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But are-- so say something
that includes you in it.
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"Yes, I..."
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Yes, I would like...
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to have a child with you...
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if we had...
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the perfect schedule.
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00:03:14,277 --> 00:03:18,198
Well, it's nice to know, like,
how you truly feel about it,
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'cause now, I am less confused.
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Can I ask, Joey,
you're searching very,
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um...keenly...
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after Rex's wishes,
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and it's really hard
to get a sense of yours.
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[Joey] Mm-hm.
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00:03:35,256 --> 00:03:37,884
I've always wanted a child,
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but as I got older, I
didn't want children anymore
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because of my current
situation with my mom...
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[Orna] Mm-hm.
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Especially because she would
remind me not to have children
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with him.
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What would she say?
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That...
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the child would die.
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Literally, "Your
child will die?"
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00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,741
Yes, I don't know if
that's what she meant, but--
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00:04:01,783 --> 00:04:03,034
[Orna] But that's
what she said.
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00:04:03,076 --> 00:04:04,369
Correct.
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00:04:04,410 --> 00:04:08,081
That's a really
intense thing to say.
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00:04:08,289 --> 00:04:11,751
Yeah, I've heard a lot of, um...
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00:04:11,793 --> 00:04:13,586
painful things, and--
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00:04:13,628 --> 00:04:16,089
But it's-- terribly
painful, but also,
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00:04:16,130 --> 00:04:19,300
what is going
on in her mind?
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00:04:19,425 --> 00:04:21,261
I-- I don't know.
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00:04:21,302 --> 00:04:23,263
Do you have a reaction to this?
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Like 90 percent of the things
that come out of her mouth are,
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like, Biblical, Christian,
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like, heavy Christian stuff,
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and that's where she
gets all this death.
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00:04:35,149 --> 00:04:38,778
She once told me that she
just dropped on the floor
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and, like, basically rolled
around crying and saying that,
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00:04:41,990 --> 00:04:43,449
uh, like, "You're with him?
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Like-- like, over my dead body."
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And we literally lock our
bedroom door thinking she might
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come in and kill me.
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00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:51,957
[Orna] Mm-hm.
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00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:53,626
A lot of themes of death.
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00:04:53,668 --> 00:04:57,839
She will die, you're the
Devil, the baby will die --
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00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,258
it's, like, really
intense imagery.
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00:05:00,300 --> 00:05:01,050
Right.
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00:05:01,092 --> 00:05:04,929
I guess even the acknowledgement
that someone else thinks that's,
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00:05:04,971 --> 00:05:08,474
like, extreme is, um...
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I feel like I needed
to hear that because...
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yeah, maybe we just get
numbed and desensitized
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to just hearing it.
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00:05:16,149 --> 00:05:20,486
But it also-- it sounds like
it scrambles your ability to
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connect to what you want.
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Right.
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00:05:23,906 --> 00:05:25,658
What are you thinking?
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I don't know, I-- I-- like,
listening to Joey talk about her
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00:05:29,370 --> 00:05:33,499
mother saying all those
things, I just had, like, a...
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00:05:33,541 --> 00:05:37,003
flashback of how I would not...
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want my child to grow up...
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with how my dad treated me.
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00:05:43,384 --> 00:05:44,344
Yeah.
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00:05:44,385 --> 00:05:49,015
Like, I didn't like
those images of...
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my father being always busy,
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00:05:50,933 --> 00:05:54,937
and I'm thinking I'm
always busy too, so...
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00:05:55,063 --> 00:05:57,273
You look so sad.
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00:05:57,690 --> 00:05:59,567
Well, I'm more sad for Joey.
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00:05:59,609 --> 00:06:01,152
[Orna] Mm-hm.
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Not myself.
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00:06:02,528 --> 00:06:04,530
Of course.
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00:06:06,032 --> 00:06:07,825
Like, this is what I wanted;
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00:06:07,867 --> 00:06:10,161
I just wanted to know
how you feel about it.
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00:06:10,203 --> 00:06:15,208
Like, we need to be honest
with each other of what we want.
136
00:06:15,458 --> 00:06:18,169
The more I know
how you feel,
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00:06:18,211 --> 00:06:21,672
the more my mom has less
power over my decision;
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00:06:21,714 --> 00:06:23,341
it's our decisions.
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00:06:23,383 --> 00:06:26,386
Let's not use the word
"decision" and just talk about
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00:06:26,427 --> 00:06:28,596
-wants.
-[Joey] Okay.
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00:06:29,430 --> 00:06:31,724
Wants, hm...
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00:06:31,766 --> 00:06:35,061
[Rex] Like, I want her, right?
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00:06:35,103 --> 00:06:37,146
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-Um...
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00:06:37,605 --> 00:06:38,898
body and all.
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00:06:38,940 --> 00:06:40,233
[chuckling] Oh, I
was like, "What?"
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00:06:40,274 --> 00:06:40,858
-Mm-hm.
-[Rex] Right?
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00:06:40,900 --> 00:06:43,236
-But we just don't have any...
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
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00:06:43,277 --> 00:06:47,740
Sex, so even
bringing up having a baby,
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00:06:47,782 --> 00:06:49,409
it's like...
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00:06:49,450 --> 00:06:50,743
[Orna] "How is that
even gonna happen?"
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00:06:50,784 --> 00:06:52,078
It-- right.
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00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:57,082
Even these days, just
running my hand down her body...
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00:06:57,125 --> 00:06:59,752
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-She would, like...
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flick it away.
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00:07:01,921 --> 00:07:03,756
Every day.
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00:07:03,798 --> 00:07:06,426
Months, years.
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00:07:07,427 --> 00:07:09,554
Do you have any
thoughts on this?
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00:07:09,595 --> 00:07:13,724
I don't know what
happened, but I just couldn't.
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00:07:13,766 --> 00:07:17,895
It's gotten to a point where,
physically, like, actually...
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00:07:17,937 --> 00:07:19,605
like is very
[chuckling] unpleasant.
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00:07:19,647 --> 00:07:20,898
[Orna] Mm-hm.
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-And it hurts, so I'm...
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
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00:07:22,984 --> 00:07:25,903
I've built so much
fear around it now.
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00:07:25,945 --> 00:07:26,654
[Orna] Yeah.
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00:07:26,654 --> 00:07:30,241
[Joey] And I feel terrible,
but I don't know how to...
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00:07:30,283 --> 00:07:33,161
-fix that part yet.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
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00:07:33,369 --> 00:07:37,457
Even without sex for years,
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00:07:37,498 --> 00:07:40,126
I've still [chuckling]
remained with Joey.
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00:07:40,168 --> 00:07:43,337
-[Orna] Yeah.
-So that was, like, a big...
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00:07:43,629 --> 00:07:45,965
-not s-- hm...sacrifice...
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
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00:07:46,007 --> 00:07:47,633
That I made--
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00:07:47,675 --> 00:07:52,305
But why wouldn't Joey
want a sexual life herself?
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00:07:52,346 --> 00:07:53,973
-[Rex] Right.
-This is...
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00:07:54,015 --> 00:07:56,517
-not just for you.
-[Rex] Mm-hm.
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00:07:59,020 --> 00:08:02,398
[Orna] Both of you are
sacrificing something.
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Why?
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00:08:04,484 --> 00:08:07,778
Unless your mother is
benefitting from this sacrifice
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00:08:07,820 --> 00:08:08,946
-somehow?
-[Joey chuckles]
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00:08:08,988 --> 00:08:11,115
I don't think so.
[chuckles]
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00:08:11,157 --> 00:08:13,618
I guess not having
a child, in a way,
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00:08:13,659 --> 00:08:15,953
-she's getting what she wanted.
-[Orna] Ah!
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The child is sacrificed.
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00:08:17,663 --> 00:08:19,123
[Joey] Yeah.
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00:08:19,165 --> 00:08:21,792
I guess, if I know I'm
not having any of it,
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00:08:21,834 --> 00:08:23,127
that then...
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00:08:23,169 --> 00:08:26,464
I'm definitively not gonna get
pregnant in any way whatsoever.
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00:08:26,506 --> 00:08:28,174
[Orna] I see.
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00:08:28,216 --> 00:08:31,844
Really, the child is
sacrificed for your mom.
189
00:08:33,513 --> 00:08:35,972
That's Biblical.
190
00:08:36,015 --> 00:08:37,850
Yeah.
191
00:08:37,892 --> 00:08:42,897
♪ethereal synth music♪
192
00:09:19,225 --> 00:09:23,062
Josh and I are just
digging a deep hole
193
00:09:23,104 --> 00:09:25,856
that we're, um, kinda
stuck in, and that's, like,
194
00:09:25,898 --> 00:09:27,191
really bad.
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00:09:27,233 --> 00:09:29,777
Like, losing...
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00:09:29,944 --> 00:09:31,737
hope.
[chuckles]
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00:09:31,779 --> 00:09:33,531
Tell me!
198
00:09:33,573 --> 00:09:38,369
So, last week, Aryn was
coming into town with her dad,
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00:09:38,411 --> 00:09:41,539
and they were talking about
having a barbecue at his house
200
00:09:41,581 --> 00:09:43,207
-- it's a community house.
201
00:09:43,249 --> 00:09:44,917
The next day,
Josh is like, "Hey,
202
00:09:44,959 --> 00:09:46,586
do you wanna come
to the barbecue?"
203
00:09:46,627 --> 00:09:49,255
And for context, I've
never met Aryn's parents.
204
00:09:49,297 --> 00:09:52,925
As far as I know, your parents
aren't aware that you're...
205
00:09:52,967 --> 00:09:55,928
don't have direct confirmation
from you that you're poly.
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00:09:55,970 --> 00:09:56,721
There's been some--
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00:09:56,721 --> 00:10:01,434
Yeah, I haven't been out to
my parents that I'm poly, so...
208
00:10:01,475 --> 00:10:03,436
your assumption was correct.
209
00:10:03,477 --> 00:10:06,272
So I was like, "Hey, did
you talk to Aryn about the
210
00:10:06,314 --> 00:10:07,982
barbecue?"
211
00:10:08,274 --> 00:10:10,776
And Josh goes, "Yeah,
212
00:10:10,818 --> 00:10:15,948
you can come over but, like,
our dynamic can't really be...
213
00:10:15,990 --> 00:10:18,284
present or above
board or..." whatever it was,
214
00:10:18,326 --> 00:10:20,328
and so I was super hurt.
215
00:10:20,369 --> 00:10:21,954
Incredibly hurt.
216
00:10:21,996 --> 00:10:25,791
And then Josh and I had a
date night planned for Monday.
217
00:10:25,833 --> 00:10:28,628
Sunday evening,
I'm talking to Josh.
218
00:10:28,669 --> 00:10:31,297
He was like, "Oh, I
think I double booked."
219
00:10:31,339 --> 00:10:33,132
And we, like, get off the
phone 'cause you were like,
220
00:10:33,174 --> 00:10:34,967
"I'm gonna go
check in with Aryn,"
221
00:10:35,009 --> 00:10:37,178
and I just, like,
emotionally melt.
222
00:10:37,219 --> 00:10:39,972
But one of the things that
I was thinking about is, like,
223
00:10:40,014 --> 00:10:42,725
I feel so secondary,
224
00:10:42,767 --> 00:10:46,395
and it makes me feel deeply
insecure and pulled back,
225
00:10:46,437 --> 00:10:49,315
and it's affecting me --
I'm not feeling like I can plan.
226
00:10:49,357 --> 00:10:51,359
It's affecting me feeling
like I don't know how to be in
227
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,361
relationship with you, it's
affecting me in feeling like
228
00:10:53,402 --> 00:10:55,404
I don't know how
to actually make...
229
00:10:55,446 --> 00:10:56,364
a future.
230
00:10:56,405 --> 00:10:58,407
So I feel like...
231
00:10:58,449 --> 00:10:59,909
I have, in my head, an
expectation of what a
232
00:10:59,950 --> 00:11:02,662
non-hierarchal relationship is
and what a primary relationship
233
00:11:02,703 --> 00:11:05,331
is, and I think
both of you do too,
234
00:11:05,373 --> 00:11:09,001
but I don't think any of us are
actually aligned -- fully --
235
00:11:09,043 --> 00:11:11,212
of what's going on.
236
00:11:11,420 --> 00:11:14,840
How are you feeling
about this conversation?
237
00:11:14,882 --> 00:11:17,343
After I cheated on Josh,
238
00:11:17,385 --> 00:11:20,346
it was this super-big rupture.
239
00:11:20,388 --> 00:11:22,682
He said things like
240
00:11:22,723 --> 00:11:26,185
"Well, you blew all
rights to have a say in what
241
00:11:26,227 --> 00:11:28,562
our relationship
is out of the water,"
242
00:11:28,604 --> 00:11:32,858
and I just felt like we were on
such rocky ground that I didn't
243
00:11:32,900 --> 00:11:37,738
have the ability or rights
within Josh's mind to even
244
00:11:37,780 --> 00:11:41,534
advocate for what type of
relationship I still wanted,
245
00:11:41,575 --> 00:11:43,369
which I still...
246
00:11:43,411 --> 00:11:45,913
like, in my heart, want
a primary relationship.
247
00:11:45,955 --> 00:11:48,708
But it sounds like -- if I'm
understanding this correctly --
248
00:11:48,749 --> 00:11:51,961
that the central decision making
is between the two of you and
249
00:11:52,002 --> 00:11:53,713
you ask questions.
250
00:11:53,754 --> 00:11:55,214
-Yes.
-In certain scenarios.
251
00:11:55,256 --> 00:11:56,382
-[Orna] Yeah.
-In a lot of scenarios.
252
00:11:56,424 --> 00:11:58,426
Yeah, a lot of them, but also,
I think the one where--
253
00:11:58,467 --> 00:12:01,887
So who wants to change that?
254
00:12:01,929 --> 00:12:03,889
[laughs]
255
00:12:03,931 --> 00:12:06,225
-I guess part of that is me.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
256
00:12:06,267 --> 00:12:07,560
Yeah, I feel like I don't--
257
00:12:07,601 --> 00:12:10,896
[Orna] But are
you in a minority?
258
00:12:10,938 --> 00:12:11,731
-Yes.
-[Orna] I mean do other people
259
00:12:11,772 --> 00:12:13,733
wanna change that?
260
00:12:13,774 --> 00:12:15,234
Hm.
261
00:12:15,276 --> 00:12:17,570
I mean, a part of me -- just
to be super honest -- like,
262
00:12:17,611 --> 00:12:19,405
I...
263
00:12:19,447 --> 00:12:21,073
I guess there is a part of me
that likes to have a little
264
00:12:21,115 --> 00:12:22,950
control.
265
00:12:23,784 --> 00:12:24,952
Mm-hm.
266
00:12:24,994 --> 00:12:27,413
And I would say that...
267
00:12:27,455 --> 00:12:30,750
post-Aryn-cheating-on-me,
268
00:12:30,791 --> 00:12:34,170
I want to give
less control to Aryn.
269
00:12:34,295 --> 00:12:37,006
If I'm being totally honest.
270
00:12:37,798 --> 00:12:39,592
But...
271
00:12:39,633 --> 00:12:40,634
But?
272
00:12:40,676 --> 00:12:43,596
Do you see, in
all these examples,
273
00:12:43,637 --> 00:12:46,932
the top-priority
decision maker with Aryn?
274
00:12:46,974 --> 00:12:47,558
-What do you mean?
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
275
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,936
If I could come to the
barbecue with Aryn...
276
00:12:50,978 --> 00:12:52,605
-Well--
-No, no, just listen.
277
00:12:52,646 --> 00:12:53,981
Okay.
278
00:12:54,023 --> 00:12:55,941
When I wanted to
schedule the month out...
279
00:12:55,983 --> 00:12:57,443
-The--
-I-- no, just listen!
280
00:12:57,485 --> 00:12:58,611
Yeah, go ahead!
281
00:12:58,652 --> 00:12:59,945
Just be curious.
282
00:12:59,987 --> 00:13:04,074
Like, I'm asking Aryn if
I can hang out with you on
283
00:13:04,116 --> 00:13:04,825
Sunday or Monday.
284
00:13:04,867 --> 00:13:08,621
Like, I'm asking Aryn if I
can come over to your barbecue.
285
00:13:08,662 --> 00:13:10,289
Like...
286
00:13:10,331 --> 00:13:15,377
Aryn is a main decision
maker in our relationship.
287
00:13:16,003 --> 00:13:21,050
♪mellow pensive music♪
288
00:13:48,869 --> 00:13:50,329
When I feel down,
289
00:13:50,371 --> 00:13:51,997
I'm paralyzed.
290
00:13:52,039 --> 00:13:54,333
Something just comes
over me; I cannot move.
291
00:13:54,375 --> 00:13:55,125
Mm-hm.
292
00:13:55,167 --> 00:13:57,670
But he still has to get up and
go to work because he doesn't
293
00:13:57,711 --> 00:13:59,171
have the...
294
00:13:59,213 --> 00:14:00,464
I'm using, like,
your words; he's like,
295
00:14:00,506 --> 00:14:02,842
"I don't have the luxury to
just sit in bed and do nothing."
296
00:14:02,883 --> 00:14:03,259
[Orna] Mm-hm.
297
00:14:03,259 --> 00:14:05,636
So, like, he goes off and...
298
00:14:05,678 --> 00:14:08,138
-essentially saves the day.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
299
00:14:08,180 --> 00:14:12,017
-[Casimar] That, then, caused--
-Causes you to feel worse?
300
00:14:12,059 --> 00:14:13,686
[Casimar] Yes, of
course I feel worse!
301
00:14:13,727 --> 00:14:15,187
Yeah, mm-hm.
302
00:14:15,229 --> 00:14:16,689
-That's not what I want...
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
303
00:14:16,730 --> 00:14:19,024
To fuel the narrative
that I don't do nothing!
304
00:14:19,066 --> 00:14:19,692
Right.
305
00:14:19,733 --> 00:14:25,072
It's just the most
worthless feeling in the world.
306
00:14:26,907 --> 00:14:29,577
And then the fights start.
307
00:14:30,911 --> 00:14:33,873
♪soft tense music♪
308
00:14:33,914 --> 00:14:35,540
[keypad beeping]
309
00:14:35,583 --> 00:14:38,043
[Orna VO] Alexes does
this real estate project;
310
00:14:38,085 --> 00:14:43,132
he fixes up properties and
makes them rental Airbnb units,
311
00:14:43,173 --> 00:14:46,051
and that's his way of trying to
climb his way out of poverty,
312
00:14:46,093 --> 00:14:48,053
for both of them.
313
00:14:48,095 --> 00:14:50,055
Casimar's the designer,
314
00:14:50,097 --> 00:14:53,392
making each of the spaces
beautiful and appealing.
315
00:14:53,434 --> 00:14:57,062
But he also suffers from
trauma, depression, ADHD,
316
00:14:57,104 --> 00:14:59,440
that makes
it hard for him...
317
00:14:59,481 --> 00:15:01,358
to fully function.
318
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,027
The contract
between them, in a way,
319
00:15:03,068 --> 00:15:07,531
is that Casimar offers,
like, a huge amount of, like,
320
00:15:07,573 --> 00:15:10,200
emotional
support for Alexes --
321
00:15:10,242 --> 00:15:11,869
-like, incredible--
-Astounding, astounding.
322
00:15:11,911 --> 00:15:12,536
[Orna] Astounding.
323
00:15:12,536 --> 00:15:15,039
-And Alexes is providing...
-[Virginia] Home.
324
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,374
-The financial, home...
-[Virginia] Yeah.
325
00:15:17,416 --> 00:15:22,171
And stability that
Casimar lacked his whole life.
326
00:15:23,631 --> 00:15:25,466
Yeah!
327
00:15:26,967 --> 00:15:28,969
-Hello!
-[Casimar and Alexes] Hello!
328
00:15:30,304 --> 00:15:32,765
When my mom told us
that we were homeless --
329
00:15:32,806 --> 00:15:34,767
that we were being evicted --
330
00:15:34,808 --> 00:15:37,603
she was just, like,
crying hysterically,
331
00:15:37,645 --> 00:15:39,939
and I wasn't
crying, I was just like,
332
00:15:39,980 --> 00:15:43,442
"Well, didn't my aunt go
through something similar?
333
00:15:43,484 --> 00:15:44,610
Can we call her?"
334
00:15:44,652 --> 00:15:47,112
And she, like, almost
immediately stopped crying.
335
00:15:47,154 --> 00:15:49,281
She was like, "You're right!"
336
00:15:49,323 --> 00:15:51,116
And...
337
00:15:51,158 --> 00:15:53,494
within, you know, the
next couple of hours,
338
00:15:53,535 --> 00:15:56,121
we were in the
Emergency Assistance Unit,
339
00:15:56,163 --> 00:15:59,917
and, you know, we were
shipped off to a shelter.
340
00:16:00,292 --> 00:16:02,586
And I don't know if we
would have done that had I not
341
00:16:02,628 --> 00:16:03,170
said that.
342
00:16:03,212 --> 00:16:04,588
I don't know how long
it would've taken--
343
00:16:04,630 --> 00:16:06,423
Because she was so distraught?
344
00:16:06,465 --> 00:16:07,257
Yeah!
345
00:16:07,299 --> 00:16:09,927
She couldn't think straight!
346
00:16:09,969 --> 00:16:13,097
How did you feel
when she said that?
347
00:16:13,138 --> 00:16:15,808
When she was so overwhelmed?
348
00:16:17,685 --> 00:16:20,104
"How do I fix this?"
349
00:16:20,145 --> 00:16:22,773
I know I was only 12,
350
00:16:22,815 --> 00:16:24,108
but I was like,
"No, no, no!
351
00:16:24,149 --> 00:16:25,818
We gotta do something!
352
00:16:25,859 --> 00:16:27,653
I can't sit and cry with you!"
353
00:16:27,695 --> 00:16:30,489
So it was-- it was
a rough four years.
354
00:16:30,531 --> 00:16:31,281
Yeah.
355
00:16:31,281 --> 00:16:36,328
We was in a room maybe a quarter
of the size of this room --
356
00:16:36,370 --> 00:16:39,164
me, my mom, and
my little brother.
357
00:16:39,206 --> 00:16:41,834
There were days I was hungry,
but I'm not gonna complain
358
00:16:41,875 --> 00:16:44,837
because we gotta keep
it going; life goes on!
359
00:16:44,878 --> 00:16:47,548
You had to grow up...
360
00:16:48,048 --> 00:16:49,341
way too fast.
361
00:16:49,383 --> 00:16:50,718
Yeah, super fast.
362
00:16:50,759 --> 00:16:54,513
I'm also thinking about how you
had to take care of everyone,
363
00:16:54,555 --> 00:16:57,516
including yourself, and...
364
00:16:57,558 --> 00:17:00,644
as you keep saying,
kind of stick to...
365
00:17:00,686 --> 00:17:03,689
the positive and not crumble.
366
00:17:04,022 --> 00:17:05,983
Well, and also,
that was kind of, like,
367
00:17:06,025 --> 00:17:10,529
the image that,
like, my mom really wanted.
368
00:17:10,570 --> 00:17:13,656
You know, before
us being homeless,
369
00:17:13,699 --> 00:17:16,326
it was, you know, the abusive
relationship that was going on
370
00:17:16,367 --> 00:17:17,703
at home.
371
00:17:17,744 --> 00:17:21,205
I remember going into the
bedroom and telling my dad to
372
00:17:21,248 --> 00:17:23,166
get off of my mom,
and my mother saying,
373
00:17:23,208 --> 00:17:25,836
"Casi, just go,
just get out,"
374
00:17:25,877 --> 00:17:29,381
because if he was to hurt me,
then that would hurt her.
375
00:17:29,423 --> 00:17:30,507
[Orna] Mm-hm.
376
00:17:30,549 --> 00:17:32,718
-So you had to ignore...
-[Casimar] Yeah.
377
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,219
Awful things.
378
00:17:34,261 --> 00:17:35,054
[Casimar] Yeah.
379
00:17:35,095 --> 00:17:36,889
And it was just
like, you know...
380
00:17:36,930 --> 00:17:38,891
[inhales deeply]
"When you go outside,
381
00:17:38,932 --> 00:17:41,727
-nobody knows your problems..."
-Mm-hm.
382
00:17:41,769 --> 00:17:43,562
"Don't let everybody
know your business,
383
00:17:43,604 --> 00:17:46,732
and do just the
best that you can."
384
00:17:46,774 --> 00:17:47,566
[sniffles]
385
00:17:47,608 --> 00:17:49,568
Where are you,
Alexes, listening?
386
00:17:49,610 --> 00:17:51,737
[Alexes] It's just
very different from me.
387
00:17:51,779 --> 00:17:55,407
When our
relationship started, like,
388
00:17:55,449 --> 00:17:58,577
the bouts of depression
were big and, like,
389
00:17:58,619 --> 00:17:59,578
he would...
390
00:17:59,620 --> 00:18:01,330
fall asleep in my
arms crying, and then,
391
00:18:01,371 --> 00:18:02,748
the next morning,
be like, "Hey, Mom!
392
00:18:02,790 --> 00:18:03,540
What's up?"
393
00:18:03,540 --> 00:18:06,752
And it was-- it was so jarring
to me -- it was like a shock to
394
00:18:06,794 --> 00:18:11,381
my system -- 'cause I spent
32 years [chuckles] to...
395
00:18:11,423 --> 00:18:15,761
find my voice to
not be a victim.
396
00:18:16,261 --> 00:18:19,223
I mean, the way I'm
understanding this kind of
397
00:18:19,264 --> 00:18:20,015
difference
between the two of you,
398
00:18:20,057 --> 00:18:23,727
we talked about your history of
abuse and how it's been kind of
399
00:18:23,769 --> 00:18:26,730
systematically
negated and silenced,
400
00:18:26,772 --> 00:18:30,901
and why that would make you
particularly sensitive to that,
401
00:18:30,943 --> 00:18:33,779
so when you're
asking Casimar to move
402
00:18:33,821 --> 00:18:37,908
into the area that is most...
403
00:18:37,950 --> 00:18:40,119
upsetting to you,
404
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,789
that will raise
alarm bells for you,
405
00:18:43,831 --> 00:18:44,540
-Casimar...
-Yeah.
406
00:18:44,581 --> 00:18:46,458
[Orna] Because you're like,
"That's not what you do..."
407
00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:47,292
-Right.
-[Orna] "To survive,
408
00:18:47,334 --> 00:18:49,461
you do the opposite!"
409
00:18:49,503 --> 00:18:51,296
And you're saying,
410
00:18:51,338 --> 00:18:53,966
"But you're
silencing the truth!"
411
00:18:54,007 --> 00:18:55,676
Yeah.
412
00:18:55,884 --> 00:18:57,636
That's part of the
reason why, like,
413
00:18:57,678 --> 00:19:01,223
I get so anxious
when-- when we fight,
414
00:19:01,265 --> 00:19:04,893
'cause I'm like, "No,
we gotta get over this!
415
00:19:04,935 --> 00:19:08,480
I can't stay here when
happiness is over there!"
416
00:19:08,522 --> 00:19:12,109
But staying here is in
a place of overwhelm,
417
00:19:12,151 --> 00:19:15,279
sadness, helplessness...
418
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,657
Yeah, it's just, like, I
already go through depression,
419
00:19:18,699 --> 00:19:21,118
which is, like, this chemical
thing that's gonna happen
420
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,452
regardless.
421
00:19:22,494 --> 00:19:25,497
I can't control
some imbalance,
422
00:19:25,539 --> 00:19:29,293
but I can control the world
that I live in to some extent,
423
00:19:29,334 --> 00:19:32,629
so I can either,
you know, be hungry,
424
00:19:32,671 --> 00:19:36,633
or I can go in my
brain and just dance,
425
00:19:36,675 --> 00:19:39,303
and go to some happy place.
426
00:19:39,344 --> 00:19:41,805
Because if I don't
distract myself,
427
00:19:41,847 --> 00:19:44,683
I'm gonna realize I'm hungry,
428
00:19:44,725 --> 00:19:48,061
or that these
walls are so small.
429
00:19:50,731 --> 00:19:55,736
♪curious jazz music♪
430
00:20:13,754 --> 00:20:17,216
[Orna VO] Elíana is driven by
a pretty intense both ambition
431
00:20:17,257 --> 00:20:19,092
and OCD.
432
00:20:19,134 --> 00:20:24,181
♪♪♪
433
00:20:25,474 --> 00:20:26,225
But also,
434
00:20:26,266 --> 00:20:30,896
she controls everything about
their schedule and environment,
435
00:20:30,938 --> 00:20:32,439
and her complaint was, like,
436
00:20:32,481 --> 00:20:35,275
"The guy is like a kid;
he does nothing."
437
00:20:35,317 --> 00:20:37,569
So it's gonna be a tough...
438
00:20:37,611 --> 00:20:39,404
thing to break
them out of this.
439
00:20:39,446 --> 00:20:40,113
Right.
440
00:20:40,113 --> 00:20:42,908
I think she's also
[chuckling] suspicious of me...
441
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:45,077
-[Virginia] Yeah.
-Whether I'm on her team.
442
00:20:45,118 --> 00:20:46,161
Right.
443
00:20:46,203 --> 00:20:49,915
If she could hand
over some of the...
444
00:20:49,957 --> 00:20:53,794
planning and
control to him,
445
00:20:53,835 --> 00:20:55,796
and he showed up for that,
446
00:20:55,837 --> 00:20:58,298
I guess that would be
the first thing to try.
447
00:20:58,340 --> 00:21:02,094
Yeah, so, "Mitch, are you
ready to really show up,
448
00:21:02,135 --> 00:21:03,595
have some
authority over things..."
449
00:21:03,637 --> 00:21:04,346
Mm-hm.
450
00:21:04,388 --> 00:21:06,932
"And step into that space,
even though you're afraid at any
451
00:21:06,974 --> 00:21:08,767
moment she could
put you down..."
452
00:21:08,809 --> 00:21:09,268
Yeah.
453
00:21:09,309 --> 00:21:10,769
[Virginia] "And
really hurt you?"
454
00:21:10,811 --> 00:21:12,479
Yeah.
455
00:21:13,313 --> 00:21:14,940
I have a suggestion:
456
00:21:14,982 --> 00:21:16,650
Mitch...
457
00:21:16,692 --> 00:21:19,778
what would you propose as...
458
00:21:19,820 --> 00:21:23,782
like, a contract of
how to live together?
459
00:21:23,824 --> 00:21:26,451
What would be your
vision of how it would look?
460
00:21:26,493 --> 00:21:28,495
What would you design it?
461
00:21:28,537 --> 00:21:29,496
How would you design it?
462
00:21:29,538 --> 00:21:31,123
"Clean up after yourself."
463
00:21:31,164 --> 00:21:32,499
Each person cleans
up after themselves?
464
00:21:32,541 --> 00:21:35,127
[Mitch] Each person
cleans up after themselves.
465
00:21:35,168 --> 00:21:36,837
That's how I kind of grew up.
466
00:21:36,878 --> 00:21:40,465
We all-- we all
maintained our own space with,
467
00:21:40,507 --> 00:21:42,634
you know, what we had.
468
00:21:42,676 --> 00:21:43,802
And...
469
00:21:43,844 --> 00:21:46,179
[Orna] Why are you
shaking your head?
470
00:21:46,221 --> 00:21:49,349
I-- I've been...
471
00:21:49,391 --> 00:21:51,143
at your mother's house.
472
00:21:51,184 --> 00:21:54,646
Everyone throws their
dishes up in that sink,
473
00:21:54,688 --> 00:21:56,982
and she cl-- she wakes up at
four o'clock in the morning
474
00:21:57,024 --> 00:21:58,859
every morning
before she goes to work
475
00:21:58,900 --> 00:22:00,986
to clean up
everybody's dishes.
476
00:22:01,028 --> 00:22:02,654
I see.
Is that true?
477
00:22:02,696 --> 00:22:03,989
For the most part, yeah.
478
00:22:04,031 --> 00:22:06,491
-She cleans the whole house.
-[Orna] So she cleans, not you?
479
00:22:06,533 --> 00:22:08,327
Not each person
cleans after themselves?
480
00:22:08,368 --> 00:22:10,162
Our respective space.
481
00:22:10,203 --> 00:22:13,332
Shared spaces,
she tends to clean.
482
00:22:13,373 --> 00:22:16,835
But what-- just to try to
understand where the two of you
483
00:22:16,877 --> 00:22:20,839
would meet, how would you do it
in the shared spaces between the
484
00:22:20,881 --> 00:22:22,507
two of you?
485
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:27,012
Uh, we'd probably have,
like, areas of responsibilities.
486
00:22:27,054 --> 00:22:28,555
Describe; like, lay it out.
487
00:22:28,597 --> 00:22:32,225
Um, she has a very specific
preference in which she likes
488
00:22:32,267 --> 00:22:34,561
-the bathroom to be cleaned.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
489
00:22:34,603 --> 00:22:36,855
-The bathroom would be hers.
-Mm-hm.
490
00:22:36,897 --> 00:22:40,359
The kitchen, personally, I'd
like to be responsible for,
491
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,195
because I don't really like
the way in which she goes about,
492
00:22:43,236 --> 00:22:45,864
like, cleaning up the kitchen
and the fashion in which she
493
00:22:45,906 --> 00:22:46,531
does it.
494
00:22:46,573 --> 00:22:50,577
And the shared spaces like
living rooms and bedrooms,
495
00:22:50,619 --> 00:22:52,037
pick up after yourself.
496
00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:55,707
So how about you take a week
or two and try to live by that
497
00:22:55,749 --> 00:22:57,459
contract?
498
00:22:58,418 --> 00:22:59,878
I'd be open to it.
499
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,172
-It would...
-Just as an experiment.
500
00:23:02,214 --> 00:23:05,050
The effectiveness of it would
really be dependent on how many
501
00:23:05,092 --> 00:23:07,052
days I spend there.
502
00:23:07,094 --> 00:23:07,719
-[Orna] Right.
-So I--
503
00:23:07,719 --> 00:23:10,555
I'd have to spend a
full week to really see...
504
00:23:10,597 --> 00:23:12,057
[Orna] To see, to
have a real trial.
505
00:23:12,099 --> 00:23:14,059
-The extent of how that works.
-[Orna] Yeah.
506
00:23:14,101 --> 00:23:17,896
One of my kind of
very general...
507
00:23:17,938 --> 00:23:21,066
diagnosis of the dynamic
508
00:23:21,108 --> 00:23:26,071
is that Elíana is sacked
with too much, um...
509
00:23:26,113 --> 00:23:28,740
-[Elíana speaks indistinctly]
-Authority over what's going on.
510
00:23:28,782 --> 00:23:30,409
-What did you say?
-Responsibility?
511
00:23:30,450 --> 00:23:34,413
[Orna] I'm actually gonna
use another word: authority...
512
00:23:34,454 --> 00:23:37,416
that is burdening her,
513
00:23:37,457 --> 00:23:40,419
and putting you
in a tough spot.
514
00:23:40,460 --> 00:23:44,506
I think you should try
to take the reins more.
515
00:23:46,133 --> 00:23:48,593
Maybe I'm not explaining
myself well up in here,
516
00:23:48,635 --> 00:23:51,596
or I'm really, like, trying
to allow him the grace and
517
00:23:51,638 --> 00:23:54,766
gratitude and latitude to say
the things that he's feeling,
518
00:23:54,808 --> 00:23:57,269
so you may say that
I'm being authoritative.
519
00:23:57,310 --> 00:24:00,605
It's not that, it's that...
520
00:24:00,647 --> 00:24:03,066
when I do try to communicate --
when I told him that I didn't
521
00:24:03,108 --> 00:24:05,110
want him staying at my house
overnight because he was using
522
00:24:05,152 --> 00:24:07,779
me as a fuckin' doormat...
523
00:24:07,821 --> 00:24:09,906
"How are you gonna do
this to me and my child?
524
00:24:09,948 --> 00:24:12,951
You're-- you
can't do that to me."
525
00:24:12,993 --> 00:24:15,287
That's my house!
526
00:24:15,328 --> 00:24:16,788
I can say how I feel!
527
00:24:16,830 --> 00:24:21,126
Because when you come here,
it feels like a tidal wave!
528
00:24:21,168 --> 00:24:24,629
And now I'm left to pick up
the pieces when you leave!
529
00:24:24,671 --> 00:24:26,965
-But then--
-[Orna] Can I ask you...
530
00:24:27,007 --> 00:24:28,300
You're upset.
531
00:24:28,341 --> 00:24:30,802
What are you upset
about right now?
532
00:24:30,844 --> 00:24:31,428
Now, here.
533
00:24:31,470 --> 00:24:33,972
[Elíana] Because I
don't want to be this way!
534
00:24:34,014 --> 00:24:35,474
-[Orna] What--
-But...
535
00:24:35,515 --> 00:24:37,809
"Controlling" or
"authoritative."
536
00:24:37,851 --> 00:24:38,351
[Orna] Yeah.
537
00:24:38,393 --> 00:24:40,645
I would like for you
to see the issues,
538
00:24:40,687 --> 00:24:42,147
and fucking deal with it!
539
00:24:42,189 --> 00:24:44,524
This shit's embarrassing!
540
00:24:44,566 --> 00:24:45,817
How so?
541
00:24:45,859 --> 00:24:48,987
[tearfully] Because, like,
I don't do things half-assed,
542
00:24:49,029 --> 00:24:52,491
and I feel like
I'm doing this...
543
00:24:52,532 --> 00:24:55,827
with someone who's doing
everything half-assed.
544
00:24:55,869 --> 00:24:57,329
-[scoffs]
-You don't think that--
545
00:24:57,370 --> 00:24:59,331
Yo, my nigga, you-- you
gonna be for real right now
546
00:24:59,372 --> 00:25:00,790
and laugh, G?!
547
00:25:00,832 --> 00:25:01,583
[Mitch] Yeah!
548
00:25:01,625 --> 00:25:05,295
There's no way you think you
put 100-percent effort into us!
549
00:25:05,337 --> 00:25:06,087
There's no way!
550
00:25:06,129 --> 00:25:08,298
I'm not talking about you and I,
I'm talking about our family as
551
00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:09,341
-a whole!
-But you and I are--
552
00:25:09,382 --> 00:25:10,800
-Mitch--
-A part of that equation!
553
00:25:10,842 --> 00:25:12,302
-Mitch...
-You can't do--
554
00:25:12,344 --> 00:25:15,180
Mitch, I can count on one
hand, bro, how many times
555
00:25:15,222 --> 00:25:17,307
-you've helped me with Law!
-You can't-- that's--
556
00:25:17,349 --> 00:25:19,684
I can count on one
hand how many times you
557
00:25:19,726 --> 00:25:21,520
show up for me!
[sniffles]
558
00:25:21,561 --> 00:25:23,522
Okay.
So if I--
559
00:25:23,563 --> 00:25:24,856
This shit is embarrassing!
560
00:25:24,898 --> 00:25:26,525
So if I don't show up for
you and you're embarrassed,
561
00:25:26,566 --> 00:25:28,026
why are you here?
562
00:25:28,068 --> 00:25:29,861
Because I want
this shit to work!
563
00:25:29,903 --> 00:25:30,862
So put in effort!
564
00:25:30,904 --> 00:25:32,531
-I do put in effort, bro!
-No, you don't!
565
00:25:32,572 --> 00:25:34,533
-Are you fucking kidding me?!
-You don't!
566
00:25:34,574 --> 00:25:36,701
-I don't?!
-Hardly!
567
00:25:36,743 --> 00:25:37,536
-Hardly!
-[Orna] You're talking--
568
00:25:37,577 --> 00:25:38,286
-You're bugging!
-Hardly!
569
00:25:38,328 --> 00:25:43,041
I make-- down to your car
getting inspected do I look out
570
00:25:43,083 --> 00:25:44,376
for you, bro!
571
00:25:44,417 --> 00:25:48,213
Down to making sure that you
have laundry at my-- when you
572
00:25:48,255 --> 00:25:51,216
leave shit at my crib, I
wash your fucking clothes!
573
00:25:51,258 --> 00:25:53,552
If I was a bitch, I woulda
left that shit out when I did
574
00:25:53,593 --> 00:25:54,427
-laundry!
-[Mitch] Dial--
575
00:25:54,469 --> 00:25:55,262
[Elíana] This
shit is embarrassing!
576
00:25:55,303 --> 00:25:55,804
Dial it back.
577
00:25:55,804 --> 00:25:56,471
[Elíana] I don't
do shit half-assed!
578
00:25:56,471 --> 00:26:00,058
And every time you show up,
I get a phone call --
579
00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:01,726
"Oh, is he actually
helping you this time?"
580
00:26:01,768 --> 00:26:04,688
because niggas have
seen you sit on your ass,
581
00:26:04,729 --> 00:26:07,190
chill on your phone
while I am nursing
582
00:26:07,232 --> 00:26:08,858
and in a fucking
meeting with Law --
583
00:26:08,900 --> 00:26:11,695
with Law on my lap!
584
00:26:11,736 --> 00:26:14,197
That is exactly why I
got written up at work:
585
00:26:14,239 --> 00:26:16,366
because Law was showing
up at too many meetings!
586
00:26:16,408 --> 00:26:17,742
And where were you?!
587
00:26:17,784 --> 00:26:19,536
Where were you?!
588
00:26:19,578 --> 00:26:21,746
Chilling in the room taking a
"nap" because you were fucking
589
00:26:21,788 --> 00:26:22,581
tired!
590
00:26:22,622 --> 00:26:24,040
I work!
591
00:26:24,082 --> 00:26:25,917
You work 40 hours
like everybody else!
592
00:26:25,959 --> 00:26:27,252
Stop, stop, stop!
593
00:26:27,294 --> 00:26:29,421
You don't work, so stop
saying "like everybody else!"
594
00:26:29,462 --> 00:26:30,213
You don't work!
595
00:26:30,255 --> 00:26:33,592
[Elíana] Okay, if you don't
think being with Law seven days
596
00:26:33,633 --> 00:26:34,926
-a week...
-That's not what I'm saying!
597
00:26:34,968 --> 00:26:36,761
If you don't think that
that's work, you're buggin'.
598
00:26:36,803 --> 00:26:39,097
Stop-- you don't think
working 40 hours is work!
599
00:26:39,139 --> 00:26:40,265
-Stop--
-I don't!
600
00:26:40,307 --> 00:26:41,600
-Okay--
-Because when we first met--
601
00:26:41,641 --> 00:26:42,934
Then that's the
disconnect we have!
602
00:26:42,976 --> 00:26:44,269
When we first met, how
many jobs did I have?
603
00:26:44,311 --> 00:26:45,604
I worked two jobs
and I went to school.
604
00:26:45,645 --> 00:26:46,771
-Comparing again!
-Right!
605
00:26:46,813 --> 00:26:48,440
When you're comparing,
you're diminishing...
606
00:26:48,481 --> 00:26:49,941
-Don't...
-What I'm actually contributing!
607
00:26:49,983 --> 00:26:52,986
Mitch and Elíana, stop.
608
00:26:53,486 --> 00:26:56,281
What's bothering you
about these comparisons?
609
00:26:56,323 --> 00:27:00,577
The comparisons aren't
meant to-- to make me better,
610
00:27:00,619 --> 00:27:02,120
they're meant to put me down.
611
00:27:02,162 --> 00:27:05,248
Even just now, of you saying
"You work a 40-hour job just
612
00:27:05,290 --> 00:27:08,293
like everybody else," it
can't come off any other way but
613
00:27:08,335 --> 00:27:09,586
condescending!
614
00:27:09,628 --> 00:27:11,963
This is the first time in...
615
00:27:12,005 --> 00:27:16,092
almost seven years
that he's known me...
616
00:27:16,134 --> 00:27:17,302
that I'm not working.
617
00:27:17,344 --> 00:27:18,762
[Orna] Mm-hm.
618
00:27:18,803 --> 00:27:20,764
Tell me what's upsetting you.
619
00:27:20,805 --> 00:27:23,600
I put a lot of
emphasis on what I did.
620
00:27:23,642 --> 00:27:27,103
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-That's-- that's who I am.
621
00:27:27,145 --> 00:27:30,106
And this time not working has...
622
00:27:30,148 --> 00:27:31,983
I've struggled
with who I am --
623
00:27:32,025 --> 00:27:34,486
and being a mom and all
this other shit, but...
624
00:27:34,527 --> 00:27:36,196
[sniffles]
625
00:27:36,488 --> 00:27:39,824
So, okay, we've run out of time,
but can we agree that you're
626
00:27:39,866 --> 00:27:42,661
gonna start this experiment?
627
00:27:42,702 --> 00:27:45,497
So we're changing the dynamic.
628
00:27:45,538 --> 00:27:47,666
Uh, when would you
like for us to start?
629
00:27:47,707 --> 00:27:49,709
Uh, tomorrow?
630
00:27:50,043 --> 00:27:51,836
You're setting the terms, Mitch.
631
00:27:51,878 --> 00:27:54,506
I-- I have to, uh, go
home and pack my bags.
632
00:27:54,547 --> 00:27:56,257
[Orna] Mm-hm.
633
00:27:56,424 --> 00:27:58,551
Um...
634
00:27:59,886 --> 00:28:01,596
[sighs]
635
00:28:01,638 --> 00:28:06,685
♪pensive dreamy music♪
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