Original subtitles

[Elíana VO] Mitch was trying to helpful,

and he...

started cleaning the floor first.

And I'm like, "Hey, bro, like, you're gonna be working twice

'cause you still have to clean off the counter,"

and he's like, "No, I won't," and I'm like,

"Okay..."

And instead of having the conversation with him of, like,

"Hey, I am telling you...

to please do it this way,"

but instead, I just said, "Okay," and I let it go.

Do you have a guess on what I'm gonna say?

That I have OCD? [laughs]

Do you have OCD?

-I-- you were joking... -[Elíana] Yeah.

-You do? -[Elíana] Yeah, I do.

I was first diagnosed with, like,

four types of OCD.

Um, like, "organized chaos" is one of those things.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

Um...

-counting is another... -Mm-hm.

So you have very specific methods?

Yeah, like when I look at my kitchen...

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -I start with my kitchen table,

and, then, like, two, three, four, and five.

-Like... -[Orna] Numbered.

Yeah, like, numbered in my head.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

It really is like a very organized,

methodical OCD regime of how to do things,

and it's gotta happen that way for you.

-Yeah. -[Orna] Right.

It's very good to have OCD people in one's life...

[laughs]

[laughing] I don't-- I don't know.

But it won't work if you apply it to your partner.

-That makes so much sense. -[laughs]

[chuckling] That makes so much sense.

♪cool theme music♪

♪curious chill music♪

I had asked him about not having children,

and when I would talk to him to seek his opinion,

I don't get an opinion, so I feel--

Can I hear the two of you talk about it?

[both chuckle]

Like, just...

Oh, like, for example, what I would--

[Orna] Yeah, let's hear it!

Let's-- why don't you try to discuss it now,

and I'll listen to how-- what's going on there?

We lead a busy life.

My schedule is...

morning, day, and night.

Yeah, but what if our schedules were perfect?

If we had normal schedules...

Then, would you say you would... definite if we want a child?

If we were there for the kid?

Yes.

To say it fully, "Yes...?"

Yes, that would work.

But are-- so say something that includes you in it.

"Yes, I..."

Yes, I would like...

to have a child with you...

if we had...

the perfect schedule.

Well, it's nice to know, like, how you truly feel about it,

'cause now, I am less confused.

Can I ask, Joey, you're searching very,

um...keenly...

after Rex's wishes,

and it's really hard to get a sense of yours.

[Joey] Mm-hm.

I've always wanted a child,

but as I got older, I didn't want children anymore

because of my current situation with my mom...

[Orna] Mm-hm.

Especially because she would remind me not to have children

with him.

What would she say?

That...

the child would die.

Literally, "Your child will die?"

Yes, I don't know if that's what she meant, but--

[Orna] But that's what she said.

Correct.

That's a really intense thing to say.

Yeah, I've heard a lot of, um...

painful things, and--

But it's-- terribly painful, but also,

what is going on in her mind?

I-- I don't know.

Do you have a reaction to this?

Like 90 percent of the things that come out of her mouth are,

like, Biblical, Christian,

like, heavy Christian stuff,

and that's where she gets all this death.

She once told me that she just dropped on the floor

and, like, basically rolled around crying and saying that,

uh, like, "You're with him?

Like-- like, over my dead body."

And we literally lock our bedroom door thinking she might

come in and kill me.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

A lot of themes of death.

She will die, you're the Devil, the baby will die --

it's, like, really intense imagery.

Right.

I guess even the acknowledgement that someone else thinks that's,

like, extreme is, um...

I feel like I needed to hear that because...

yeah, maybe we just get numbed and desensitized

to just hearing it.

But it also-- it sounds like it scrambles your ability to

connect to what you want.

Right.

What are you thinking?

I don't know, I-- I-- like, listening to Joey talk about her

mother saying all those things, I just had, like, a...

flashback of how I would not...

want my child to grow up...

with how my dad treated me.

Yeah.

Like, I didn't like those images of...

my father being always busy,

and I'm thinking I'm always busy too, so...

You look so sad.

Well, I'm more sad for Joey.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

Not myself.

Of course.

Like, this is what I wanted;

I just wanted to know how you feel about it.

Like, we need to be honest with each other of what we want.

The more I know how you feel,

the more my mom has less power over my decision;

it's our decisions.

Let's not use the word "decision" and just talk about

-wants. -[Joey] Okay.

Wants, hm...

[Rex] Like, I want her, right?

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -Um...

body and all.

[chuckling] Oh, I was like, "What?"

-Mm-hm. -[Rex] Right?

-But we just don't have any... -[Orna] Mm-hm.

Sex, so even bringing up having a baby,

it's like...

[Orna] "How is that even gonna happen?"

It-- right.

Even these days, just running my hand down her body...

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -She would, like...

flick it away.

Every day.

Months, years.

Do you have any thoughts on this?

I don't know what happened, but I just couldn't.

It's gotten to a point where, physically, like, actually...

like is very [chuckling] unpleasant.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

-And it hurts, so I'm... -[Orna] Mm-hm.

I've built so much fear around it now.

[Orna] Yeah.

[Joey] And I feel terrible, but I don't know how to...

-fix that part yet. -[Orna] Mm-hm.

Even without sex for years,

I've still [chuckling] remained with Joey.

-[Orna] Yeah. -So that was, like, a big...

-not s-- hm...sacrifice... -[Orna] Mm-hm.

That I made--

But why wouldn't Joey want a sexual life herself?

-[Rex] Right. -This is...

-not just for you. -[Rex] Mm-hm.

[Orna] Both of you are sacrificing something.

Why?

Unless your mother is benefitting from this sacrifice

-somehow? -[Joey chuckles]

I don't think so. [chuckles]

I guess not having a child, in a way,

-she's getting what she wanted. -[Orna] Ah!

The child is sacrificed.

[Joey] Yeah.

I guess, if I know I'm not having any of it,

that then...

I'm definitively not gonna get pregnant in any way whatsoever.

[Orna] I see.

Really, the child is sacrificed for your mom.

That's Biblical.

Yeah.

♪ethereal synth music♪

Josh and I are just digging a deep hole

that we're, um, kinda stuck in, and that's, like,

really bad.

Like, losing...

hope. [chuckles]

Tell me!

So, last week, Aryn was coming into town with her dad,

and they were talking about having a barbecue at his house

-- it's a community house.

The next day, Josh is like, "Hey,

do you wanna come to the barbecue?"

And for context, I've never met Aryn's parents.

As far as I know, your parents aren't aware that you're...

don't have direct confirmation from you that you're poly.

There's been some--

Yeah, I haven't been out to my parents that I'm poly, so...

your assumption was correct.

So I was like, "Hey, did you talk to Aryn about the

barbecue?"

And Josh goes, "Yeah,

you can come over but, like, our dynamic can't really be...

present or above board or..." whatever it was,

and so I was super hurt.

Incredibly hurt.

And then Josh and I had a date night planned for Monday.

Sunday evening, I'm talking to Josh.

He was like, "Oh, I think I double booked."

And we, like, get off the phone 'cause you were like,

"I'm gonna go check in with Aryn,"

and I just, like, emotionally melt.

But one of the things that I was thinking about is, like,

I feel so secondary,

and it makes me feel deeply insecure and pulled back,

and it's affecting me -- I'm not feeling like I can plan.

It's affecting me feeling like I don't know how to be in

relationship with you, it's affecting me in feeling like

I don't know how to actually make...

a future.

So I feel like...

I have, in my head, an expectation of what a

non-hierarchal relationship is and what a primary relationship

is, and I think both of you do too,

but I don't think any of us are actually aligned -- fully --

of what's going on.

How are you feeling about this conversation?

After I cheated on Josh,

it was this super-big rupture.

He said things like

"Well, you blew all rights to have a say in what

our relationship is out of the water,"

and I just felt like we were on such rocky ground that I didn't

have the ability or rights within Josh's mind to even

advocate for what type of relationship I still wanted,

which I still...

like, in my heart, want a primary relationship.

But it sounds like -- if I'm understanding this correctly --

that the central decision making is between the two of you and

you ask questions.

-Yes. -In certain scenarios.

-[Orna] Yeah. -In a lot of scenarios.

Yeah, a lot of them, but also, I think the one where--

So who wants to change that?

[laughs]

-I guess part of that is me. -[Orna] Mm-hm.

Yeah, I feel like I don't--

[Orna] But are you in a minority?

-Yes. -[Orna] I mean do other people

wanna change that?

Hm.

I mean, a part of me -- just to be super honest -- like,

I...

I guess there is a part of me that likes to have a little

control.

Mm-hm.

And I would say that...

post-Aryn-cheating-on-me,

I want to give less control to Aryn.

If I'm being totally honest.

But...

But?

Do you see, in all these examples,

the top-priority decision maker with Aryn?

-What do you mean? -[Orna] Mm-hm.

If I could come to the barbecue with Aryn...

-Well-- -No, no, just listen.

Okay.

When I wanted to schedule the month out...

-The-- -I-- no, just listen!

Yeah, go ahead!

Just be curious.

Like, I'm asking Aryn if I can hang out with you on

Sunday or Monday.

Like, I'm asking Aryn if I can come over to your barbecue.

Like...

Aryn is a main decision maker in our relationship.

♪mellow pensive music♪

When I feel down,

I'm paralyzed.

Something just comes over me; I cannot move.

Mm-hm.

But he still has to get up and go to work because he doesn't

have the...

I'm using, like, your words; he's like,

"I don't have the luxury to just sit in bed and do nothing."

[Orna] Mm-hm.

So, like, he goes off and...

-essentially saves the day. -[Orna] Mm-hm.

-[Casimar] That, then, caused-- -Causes you to feel worse?

[Casimar] Yes, of course I feel worse!

Yeah, mm-hm.

-That's not what I want... -[Orna] Mm-hm.

To fuel the narrative that I don't do nothing!

Right.

It's just the most worthless feeling in the world.

And then the fights start.

♪soft tense music♪

[keypad beeping]

[Orna VO] Alexes does this real estate project;

he fixes up properties and makes them rental Airbnb units,

and that's his way of trying to climb his way out of poverty,

for both of them.

Casimar's the designer,

making each of the spaces beautiful and appealing.

But he also suffers from trauma, depression, ADHD,

that makes it hard for him...

to fully function.

The contract between them, in a way,

is that Casimar offers, like, a huge amount of, like,

emotional support for Alexes --

-like, incredible-- -Astounding, astounding.

[Orna] Astounding.

-And Alexes is providing... -[Virginia] Home.

-The financial, home... -[Virginia] Yeah.

And stability that Casimar lacked his whole life.

Yeah!

-Hello! -[Casimar and Alexes] Hello!

When my mom told us that we were homeless --

that we were being evicted --

she was just, like, crying hysterically,

and I wasn't crying, I was just like,

"Well, didn't my aunt go through something similar?

Can we call her?"

And she, like, almost immediately stopped crying.

She was like, "You're right!"

And...

within, you know, the next couple of hours,

we were in the Emergency Assistance Unit,

and, you know, we were shipped off to a shelter.

And I don't know if we would have done that had I not

said that.

I don't know how long it would've taken--

Because she was so distraught?

Yeah!

She couldn't think straight!

How did you feel when she said that?

When she was so overwhelmed?

"How do I fix this?"

I know I was only 12,

but I was like, "No, no, no!

We gotta do something!

I can't sit and cry with you!"

So it was-- it was a rough four years.

Yeah.

We was in a room maybe a quarter of the size of this room --

me, my mom, and my little brother.

There were days I was hungry, but I'm not gonna complain

because we gotta keep it going; life goes on!

You had to grow up...

way too fast.

Yeah, super fast.

I'm also thinking about how you had to take care of everyone,

including yourself, and...

as you keep saying, kind of stick to...

the positive and not crumble.

Well, and also, that was kind of, like,

the image that, like, my mom really wanted.

You know, before us being homeless,

it was, you know, the abusive relationship that was going on

at home.

I remember going into the bedroom and telling my dad to

get off of my mom, and my mother saying,

"Casi, just go, just get out,"

because if he was to hurt me, then that would hurt her.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

-So you had to ignore... -[Casimar] Yeah.

Awful things.

[Casimar] Yeah.

And it was just like, you know...

[inhales deeply] "When you go outside,

-nobody knows your problems..." -Mm-hm.

"Don't let everybody know your business,

and do just the best that you can."

[sniffles]

Where are you, Alexes, listening?

[Alexes] It's just very different from me.

When our relationship started, like,

the bouts of depression were big and, like,

he would...

fall asleep in my arms crying, and then,

the next morning, be like, "Hey, Mom!

What's up?"

And it was-- it was so jarring to me -- it was like a shock to

my system -- 'cause I spent 32 years [chuckles] to...

find my voice to not be a victim.

I mean, the way I'm understanding this kind of

difference between the two of you,

we talked about your history of abuse and how it's been kind of

systematically negated and silenced,

and why that would make you particularly sensitive to that,

so when you're asking Casimar to move

into the area that is most...

upsetting to you,

that will raise alarm bells for you,

-Casimar... -Yeah.

[Orna] Because you're like, "That's not what you do..."

-Right. -[Orna] "To survive,

you do the opposite!"

And you're saying,

"But you're silencing the truth!"

Yeah.

That's part of the reason why, like,

I get so anxious when-- when we fight,

'cause I'm like, "No, we gotta get over this!

I can't stay here when happiness is over there!"

But staying here is in a place of overwhelm,

sadness, helplessness...

Yeah, it's just, like, I already go through depression,

which is, like, this chemical thing that's gonna happen

regardless.

I can't control some imbalance,

but I can control the world that I live in to some extent,

so I can either, you know, be hungry,

or I can go in my brain and just dance,

and go to some happy place.

Because if I don't distract myself,

I'm gonna realize I'm hungry,

or that these walls are so small.

♪curious jazz music♪

[Orna VO] Elíana is driven by a pretty intense both ambition

and OCD.

♪♪♪

But also,

she controls everything about their schedule and environment,

and her complaint was, like,

"The guy is like a kid; he does nothing."

So it's gonna be a tough...

thing to break them out of this.

Right.

I think she's also [chuckling] suspicious of me...

-[Virginia] Yeah. -Whether I'm on her team.

Right.

If she could hand over some of the...

planning and control to him,

and he showed up for that,

I guess that would be the first thing to try.

Yeah, so, "Mitch, are you ready to really show up,

have some authority over things..."

Mm-hm.

"And step into that space, even though you're afraid at any

moment she could put you down..."

Yeah.

[Virginia] "And really hurt you?"

Yeah.

I have a suggestion:

Mitch...

what would you propose as...

like, a contract of how to live together?

What would be your vision of how it would look?

What would you design it?

How would you design it?

"Clean up after yourself."

Each person cleans up after themselves?

[Mitch] Each person cleans up after themselves.

That's how I kind of grew up.

We all-- we all maintained our own space with,

you know, what we had.

And...

[Orna] Why are you shaking your head?

I-- I've been...

at your mother's house.

Everyone throws their dishes up in that sink,

and she cl-- she wakes up at four o'clock in the morning

every morning before she goes to work

to clean up everybody's dishes.

I see. Is that true?

For the most part, yeah.

-She cleans the whole house. -[Orna] So she cleans, not you?

Not each person cleans after themselves?

Our respective space.

Shared spaces, she tends to clean.

But what-- just to try to understand where the two of you

would meet, how would you do it in the shared spaces between the

two of you?

Uh, we'd probably have, like, areas of responsibilities.

Describe; like, lay it out.

Um, she has a very specific preference in which she likes

-the bathroom to be cleaned. -[Orna] Mm-hm.

-The bathroom would be hers. -Mm-hm.

The kitchen, personally, I'd like to be responsible for,

because I don't really like the way in which she goes about,

like, cleaning up the kitchen and the fashion in which she

does it.

And the shared spaces like living rooms and bedrooms,

pick up after yourself.

So how about you take a week or two and try to live by that

contract?

I'd be open to it.

-It would... -Just as an experiment.

The effectiveness of it would really be dependent on how many

days I spend there.

-[Orna] Right. -So I--

I'd have to spend a full week to really see...

[Orna] To see, to have a real trial.

-The extent of how that works. -[Orna] Yeah.

One of my kind of very general...

diagnosis of the dynamic

is that Elíana is sacked with too much, um...

-[Elíana speaks indistinctly] -Authority over what's going on.

-What did you say? -Responsibility?

[Orna] I'm actually gonna use another word: authority...

that is burdening her,

and putting you in a tough spot.

I think you should try to take the reins more.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself well up in here,

or I'm really, like, trying to allow him the grace and

gratitude and latitude to say the things that he's feeling,

so you may say that I'm being authoritative.

It's not that, it's that...

when I do try to communicate -- when I told him that I didn't

want him staying at my house overnight because he was using

me as a fuckin' doormat...

"How are you gonna do this to me and my child?

You're-- you can't do that to me."

That's my house!

I can say how I feel!

Because when you come here, it feels like a tidal wave!

And now I'm left to pick up the pieces when you leave!

-But then-- -[Orna] Can I ask you...

You're upset.

What are you upset about right now?

Now, here.

[Elíana] Because I don't want to be this way!

-[Orna] What-- -But...

"Controlling" or "authoritative."

[Orna] Yeah.

I would like for you to see the issues,

and fucking deal with it!

This shit's embarrassing!

How so?

[tearfully] Because, like, I don't do things half-assed,

and I feel like I'm doing this...

with someone who's doing everything half-assed.

-[scoffs] -You don't think that--

Yo, my nigga, you-- you gonna be for real right now

and laugh, G?!

[Mitch] Yeah!

There's no way you think you put 100-percent effort into us!

There's no way!

I'm not talking about you and I, I'm talking about our family as

-a whole! -But you and I are--

-Mitch-- -A part of that equation!

-Mitch... -You can't do--

Mitch, I can count on one hand, bro, how many times

-you've helped me with Law! -You can't-- that's--

I can count on one hand how many times you

show up for me! [sniffles]

Okay. So if I--

This shit is embarrassing!

So if I don't show up for you and you're embarrassed,

why are you here?

Because I want this shit to work!

So put in effort!

-I do put in effort, bro! -No, you don't!

-Are you fucking kidding me?! -You don't!

-I don't?! -Hardly!

-Hardly! -[Orna] You're talking--

-You're bugging! -Hardly!

I make-- down to your car getting inspected do I look out

for you, bro!

Down to making sure that you have laundry at my-- when you

leave shit at my crib, I wash your fucking clothes!

If I was a bitch, I woulda left that shit out when I did

-laundry! -[Mitch] Dial--

[Elíana] This shit is embarrassing!

Dial it back.

[Elíana] I don't do shit half-assed!

And every time you show up, I get a phone call --

"Oh, is he actually helping you this time?"

because niggas have seen you sit on your ass,

chill on your phone while I am nursing

and in a fucking meeting with Law --

with Law on my lap!

That is exactly why I got written up at work:

because Law was showing up at too many meetings!

And where were you?!

Where were you?!

Chilling in the room taking a "nap" because you were fucking

tired!

I work!

You work 40 hours like everybody else!

Stop, stop, stop!

You don't work, so stop saying "like everybody else!"

You don't work!

[Elíana] Okay, if you don't think being with Law seven days

-a week... -That's not what I'm saying!

If you don't think that that's work, you're buggin'.

Stop-- you don't think working 40 hours is work!

-Stop-- -I don't!

-Okay-- -Because when we first met--

Then that's the disconnect we have!

When we first met, how many jobs did I have?

I worked two jobs and I went to school.

-Comparing again! -Right!

When you're comparing, you're diminishing...

-Don't... -What I'm actually contributing!

Mitch and Elíana, stop.

What's bothering you about these comparisons?

The comparisons aren't meant to-- to make me better,

they're meant to put me down.

Even just now, of you saying "You work a 40-hour job just

like everybody else," it can't come off any other way but

condescending!

This is the first time in...

almost seven years that he's known me...

that I'm not working.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

Tell me what's upsetting you.

I put a lot of emphasis on what I did.

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -That's-- that's who I am.

And this time not working has...

I've struggled with who I am --

and being a mom and all this other shit, but...

[sniffles]

So, okay, we've run out of time, but can we agree that you're

gonna start this experiment?

So we're changing the dynamic.

Uh, when would you like for us to start?

Uh, tomorrow?

You're setting the terms, Mitch.

I-- I have to, uh, go home and pack my bags.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

Um...

[sighs]

♪pensive dreamy music♪