Original subtitles

[deep inhale]

[deep exhale]

[deep inhale]

[deep exhale]

In through the mouth.

[deep inhale]

[exhaling] Hah...

I'm with you, babe.

You're smiling too much.

Yeah.

[indistinct].

[kiss]

[whispering] Thanks, babe.

[soft hum]

♪curious oscillating synths♪

[Orna VO] Typically in a treatment,

I hear how, through every new relationship,

there's some kind of pattern that they repeat.

In this case -- in the case of a polycule...

Hello!

[Orna VO] I'm seeing it in real time,

face to face, in the session.

We talked about one of the first fights we ever had

and, like, one of the most recent fights,

and they had the same theme.

Josh was like, "I feel like I'm coming over to your house a lot

more than you're coming over to my house."

I get to your house and were having this really

challenging...

conversation of you feeling like you're more

invested than I am.

I'm showing up trying to be the most epic partner I can be

to you.

Every day, I wake up and I'm just so excited to try and be as

awesome as a partner as I can.

Like, I n-- I was like, "Fuck!

I'm not getting that back."

She doesn't value this relationship as much as I value

it, it's not as important or...

something she's as orienting around.

I didn't orient towards Josh in our relationship

in a way that made him feel loved,

and he actually felt neglected.

♪♪♪

Josh felt disappointed that I wasn't, like,

thinking of him first.

Or maybe not even...

It's not even first.

I expected us to be, like, Aryn first and then me,

and then, like, acrobatics and her business partner.

But I got the sense that I was constantly competing --

and sometimes below -- those things.

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -Often times, below.

And...

I was like, "Fuck!"

Like, "That's brutal!"

That felt brutal.

Yeah, recently, I've tried to be so much better

at prioritizing Josh and time and-- and making sure that he

feels loved in a way that he feels love.

And-- and, like, here's the interesting thing:

now, I wanna be less of an epic partner.

And there are moments where that now imbalance,

Aryn's like, "Uh, where's that epic partner that was so

enthusiastic?"

And I'm kinda just like, "Yup.

This is how it felt like for me.

It sucks."

[Orna] You wanna retaliate...

because of this resentment.

I-- I wouldn't describe it as "retaliation" because it doesn't

-feel like-- -More like a lack of empathy?

It's like a lack of empathy.

I'm just like, "Yup.

That-- it's unpleasant, I know."

But you have an impish look like you're taking some pleasure

in that.

[Josh] No, I-- I don't think that there's pleasure taken

-from it... -Mm-hm.

I just-- I could make it more delicate,

-and I don't do that. -[Orna] Mm-hm.

Intentionally.

So that Aryn hurts the way you hurt.

That's what it feels like.

And that's what he said; he was like,

"Yeah, welcome to how I felt for so long."

-And then I'm like-- -Yeah, but--

-"You suffered?" -There's more to that.

-"You did-- we have--" -Come on, there's more to that.

-[Aryn] Okay. -For sure.

I suffered, and also, you repaid me in a very negative way.

How so?

[Orna] What does that mean?

With everything we talked about last night.

-[Orna] What are we talk-- -So, like, however you wanna

articulate that.

What are we talking about?

-[chuckles] -[Josh] Go for it.

Um, like, okay, so we've had, like,

very few boundaries with who...

-else we connect with... -[Orna] Mm-hm.

And...

there was one person which we had agreed upon that I shouldn't

connect with.

But then, um, through courses that were totally against my own

morals,

me and the other person connected.

[Josh] What does that mean, "connected?"

Like, w-- we crossed boundaries that shouldn't have been

crossed.

What's another term for that?

[Orna] Wait, what's happening with this...

-inquisition? -[Aryn] Yeah.

No, I think it's, like, important.

Like, Aryn cheated on me.

-Okay. -[Josh] Right?

Mm-hm.

And, like, that's what happened.

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -Right?

And so when I say, like, "Now Aryn is being more attentive

-than usual..." -[Orna] Mm-hm.

It was because of this incident that almost destroyed our

relationship.

I was like, "I fucked up,"

and I wanted to make sure that...

this-- well, first of all, that it didn't continue,

and also, I wanted to make sure that Josh knew that he was

important to me,

and the most important person in my life.

So...

-I was-- -And also, I also just wanna say

that, like, it also speaks a lot to who Aryn is to be able to

hold that in this space.

So I just wanna, like, praise her also for your bravery in

being able to, like, talk about this,

-and I forgive you for it... -[Aryn, softly] Thank you.

-And I love you... -Mm-hm.

Um...

and it's super brave to be able to...

share about it in this setting.

Yeah, thank you, thank you, thank you.

He's attempting to address this kind of...

injured, hungry...

-Neglected. -[Orna] Neglected self by...

-[both] Adding. -Adding, yeah, right.

-[Orna] By cumulatively, like... -Yeah.

Adding lovers...

-Adding but repeating... -[Orna] Yeah.

-As psychoanalysis teaches. -[chuckling] Right.

He relates to each of them as he is the...

-the injured party... -Mm-hm.

Litigating over and over again the one thing --

"You're forgetting me."

Yeah, so kind of a consistent thing I'm doing with Josh --

which I'm not sure he likes me for...

Yeah.

[Orna] Is speak to him about...

containing this, like, very powerful need that he has...

-Yeah. -[Orna] And not...

-taking it from-- -Foisting it on-- on his lovers.

[Orna] Exactly.

And then trying to actually see who his partners are.

[Josh VO] Here's another really good example, right?

Lorena has been working on planning things.

I'm like, "Lorena, how do we really get to a place where I

can trust that we can have a future where something's planned

out in the future?"

And in that fight -- in that frustration -- Lorena goes,

"No, no, no, no!

I've planned something!

I've planned something for the end of this month.

It's for Company XIV, we're gonna go see this show"...

she's done this with another partner but,

you know, we're gonna have our own experience,

it's gonna be great.

And I was like, "Oh, shit!

Lorena...okay!

Fuck yes."

Fast-forward to the end of the month and we're out to dinner,

and during the dinner, I'm like,

"Aren't we supposed to be at some thing that you planned?"

And Lorena-- the thing that was symbolically supposed to be the

example of repair...

she ended up never following through on.

Mm-hm.

So, okay, so...

say something from your end.

Yeah, I...

[chuckles]

was gonna buy the tickets, did not buy the tickets in time

because I had a coupon that ended up expiring,

and I got nervous about the amount of money it was going to

cost to go to the show because I...

am on a different budget right now.

And then it just, like, became a huge thing because I didn't just

deal with it head-on because I was...

nervous and embarrassed.

Lorena, I don't care about Company XIV.

-I kn-- I know but-- -I care about planning things

-with you-- -I care about planning things

with you too.

We could've fuckin' bought a cupcake at...

some random place and, like, literally sat in the park!

But the thing that I crave is just to be able to, like--

But you're now talking about your own cravings.

I think it would be good for you to also listen to what's

happening on the other side so you'll understand more.

[Josh] Yeah.

I think, in particular, it felt very...

charged just 'cause we had such a huge rupture around the

planning ahead.

And I had been, like, literally trying to do that,

and it just felt like it was all just...

like, just falling apart.

I can totally imagine that situation.

-Mm-hm, yeah, yeah, yeah. -[Orna] Yeah.

I can definitely imagine that situation.

[Orna] Yeah.

-So I wanna make a suggestion. -[Josh] Yeah.

[Orna] Why don't you hold some of your feelings...

Mm-hm.

And make space to actually...

listen?

I understand the frustration you're sitting with,

but I think part of what's going on is you're not letting new

information in.

Hold your feelings.

So...

ho-- okay.

Like, I think that's, like, fair...

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -Right?

And also, these are really important moments.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

-[Josh] I don't-- -But is it more important for

you to express what's upsetting you,

or to understand what's going on?

I mean, it's important to understand what's going on.

-[Orna] So then... -For sure.

Then hold your horses.

I just feel like I've tried that.

I've tried that and I've tried--

[Orna] It's not...

It's a never-ending "hold your horses,"

it's not...

a "tried and..."

That's how one listens.

♪upbeat indie rock♪

♪Baby♪

♪I really think you're cool♪

♪Will you teach me?♪

♪I wanna be like you♪

♪Stand up tall♪

♪Never let 'em mess with what you are♪

♪Sorry that I'm blessed it's not my fault♪

What are the two of you wanting to work on?

I'm raising a blank right now. [laughs]

[chuckles]

What's the blank?

As of right now, I don't...

think there are any...

issues that I'm really having.

There are no issues that you wanna work on...

here.

[Rex] Right.

It's, like, blank for me [chuckling] right now.

I don't need to bring up anything,

I'm not angry about anything that's happened...

You often say "I don't feel angry,

I don't feel upset, I don't feel..."

You list things you don't feel.

It's almost like the strongest feeling you have is

"I don't feel."

It's very easy for me to...

not feel.

♪delicate piano music♪

[Orna VO] I'm a little hesitant about

how to reach Rex.

He comes across as...

disengaged, or maybe apathetic.

You could think about that as repression,

and that what I'm seeing in session is not the full picture.

He's figured out this way...

-to be blank. -Yeah.

[Virginia] And so he's retreating to blank,

except when you help him a little bit.

Yeah.

There's a stereotype in Asian culture that men are not

supposed to talk about their feelings,

so that, alone, is, like, a recipe for

disaster in a marriage,

and I just don't wanna repeat, like,

what my mom went through.

Can you tell me some more about the Asian part?

If you talk to, like, someone who's a first-generation

Asian-American, they probably came from a strict father figure

who probably didn't really talk to you about their emotions or

even say "I love you."

Ever.

[Orna] Ever.

Yeah.

And when you say that, how do you--

what's your feeling about it?

My feeling?

Once again, I just...

it just...disappears.

I-- I don't feel...

Well, can you try to catch it -- just a thread --

even if it's just a hint?

Like, to say that I hated him is...

Like, I can't even utter the words, like,

-"love"... -[Orna] Mm-hm.

-Like, "I love him" doesn't... -[Orna] Mm-hm.

-It's not in the vocabulary. -[Orna] Yeah.

It's not...in my mind whatsoever.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

When you asked yourself "Do I hate him?"

how did you feel?

When he was still around, I would have wished that he was

-gone... -[Orna] Mm-hm.

'Cause I was just getting yelled at every day.

[Orna] So you can remember at least those feelings --

some hating feelings.

Yes, yes.

[Orna] That's the thread of a feeling.

Mm.

But my mom would always say that he's useless,

blah blah, so then that just...

"Okay, that's who he is," that's...

the information feeding into me--

But that's over-- on top of the feeling,

and the feeling is...

"He's not loving me, he's just berating me."

Right, berating, but then I justify that with the fact that

he has nobody else to vent to.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

It's just him by himself, and whatever--

I understand, and the justifications make sense,

but in the heart and mind of a child,

the first thing they wanna know is "Do you love me?"

And they would always show that they love you by,

you know, just...

take you out to the park maybe once a month.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

And...whenever they have time.

[Orna] Where are you, Joey?

What are you thinking when you're hearing Rex describe

in this way?

[Joey] I felt more connected with him.

It's, like, something I relate to also --

something I deeply desired with my dad that I never got.

Can you say something about your own relationship with your

father and...?

So, two dads.

Biological dad, no relationship with;

I have very few memories of him.

What are the memories?

[Joey] Spending time at his workplace.

The last encounter I had when we separated before the divorce:

him giving me a business card.

A business card?

A business card, yes.

And--

And this is when you're how old?

[Joey] Eight.

Which, I reached out later on and it was disconnected,

no longer exists.

Then I had a stepdad immediately after...

[Orna] Mm-hm.

My mom got divorced.

When he got mad, he was very verbally abusive,

and he also was very physically abusive to my mom.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

I have just really horrible memories of him growing up in

elementary school and just...

[chuckling] really hating my life.

Uh...

[voice wavering] Yeah, it was, um...

I guess it was very embarrassing 'cause we lived in an apartment,

and every time they would fight, like,

everything was completely broken and shattered and...

it would happen over and over again, and my mom--

Like he would really lose it.

[Joey] Yeah.

I used to think, like, "Why is this happening to me?"

But in, like, a twisted way, I felt like he was doing his best.

Genuinely, there's, like, no...

resentment or anger there, but...

what I think is unresolved is now the resentment towards

my mom.

I'm just like, "Oh, why did you marry him and put me through

-this, and...?" -[Orna] Mm-hm.

What do you think when you're listening to Joey?

Well, her mom probably thinks that I will do the same...

[Orna] Mm-hm.

To Joey, so, as a mother, she's trying to protect her...

in trying to get rid of me.

♪dreamy chill music♪

[Orna VO] There are two major ways that the mind gets

organized around uncomfortable material.

One is repression,

which is to take that material and just shove it into

the unconscious and not remember it.

♪♪♪

And then there's another way, which is

splitting it to the side --

what we call dissociation.

People dissociate in everyday life.

Like, if you're in an accident, the mind knows how to

split off pain.

But then, there is the kind of more extreme version of

dissociation where the mind really splits --

what we used to call "multiple personality"

or "dissociative identity disorder."

♪music slows and warps♪

The mind can get really creative in responding to

really horrible events.

Hello!

-Hello! -Hello!

I think one of his highest of his many skills

-is his writing. -[Orna] Oh.

And so I'm like,

"We should write a book together

about trauma in a relationship."

Wow.

And he got really excited, and, like,

he whipped out a notebook, and he was like,

-"All right, let's do, like..." -Yeah!

[Alexes] "From which perspective," blah blah blah.

And then...

-[chuckling] it turned. -[Casimar] Yeah.

[Alexes] And I got really upset.

Um...

his ADHD came up, and I was like,

"I don't think that should be a whole, like, section,

I think that's..."

And he was like, "Well, this is, like,

authentic to me," and I was like,

"And I think you should be authentic to you,

but it shouldn't have its own section because this should be,

like, specifically centered around trauma."

But then, all of a sudden, like, he wasn't interested anymore.

And I'm like, "Because I disagreed with...

this one part?"

You know, like, probably, like, 30 minutes pass or an hour

passes, and then he said, "You're still mad?"

And I was just like, "That's it."

I was just like, "I wanna burn the whole world to the ground."

Yeah, he wasn't in the most control of his emotions,

and they were just kind of, you know,

whatever he was saying, he was just saying it,

there was no filter.

Well, I dissociated.

-[Orna] What-- -During the conversation.

During that conversation, you dissociated?

[Alexes] Yeah.

Where did you go, and what were you saying?

I don't know, but...

There was a part of the night that, like,

I was just scared.

What happened?

I hear him coming down the stairs,

so I run to the bathroom.

And he's, like, talking at me...

-while I'm sitting-- -[Orna] Saying?

Saying, like, I will never get it,

like, I'm selfish, "This is why your sister doesn't tell you

stuff, this is why, like, your relationship with your mom is so

messed up," like...

the meanest things.

Mm-hm.

Because, at this point, I'm in the corner,

I'm sitting in the bathroom cowering,

and I'm like, "I just wanna be here.

Just-- just walk away, please!"

So he must have had my glasses somewhere and he broke my

glasses, and then leaves.

And I'm like,

"How much more understanding am I supposed to be?

When does this cross the line..."

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -"Of, like,

your being a survivor and this being a traumatic episode,

and this just being abusive?"

[Orna] Mm-hm.

Can I ask you, Alexes, what do you remember of all of this?

Uh...

Uh, I remember, like, when we were sitting,

um, on the table.

Um...

and I feel like I remember hail,

-or, like, rain or something. -Yeah.

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -[Alexes] Um...

But, for example, the scene in the bathroom?

-Mm-mm. -[Orna] Nothing?

Do you know who you're switching into?

[Alexes] I just say, like, "my dissociative self."

Like, uh...

a part-- like, towards the end of my abuse...

-Mm-hm. -[Alexes] Um...

where I would...

kind of stop my mom from the physical abuse..

-Mm-hm. -[Alexes] Um...

and it was probably just, like, one year,

but that year was when then I left the house...

-[Orna] Yeah. -Um...

You know, in those moments,

it's not just, like, him, the adult

who's gone through it and processed some parts.

At this point now, it's, like,

Little Alexes,

-who needs to speak. -[Orna] Mm-hm.

So he's very vocal.

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -[Casimar] And...

if you say anything that is-- that feels like opposition...

[Orna] Mm-hm.

He's going to speak.

[inhales deeply]

So an important...

-self... -[Alexes] Um...

in your development,

someone that managed to change things...

Yeah, I mean--

[Orna] And pull you out of something.

The only time that I... Yeah.

[Orna] Yeah.

And do you have contact with that part of you?

No.

I don't mean-- I don't...

What do you mean by "contact?"

Contact like can you speak to that part of you,

make some agreements with that part?

Can you...?

I mean, I don't have the ability, really,

but I think I have successfully --

on, like, one or two occasions -- kind of, like...

tricked...that part, you know?

[Orna] Mm-hm.

Do you know, if Casimar says anything in particular,

can that part calm down or can he bring back other sides

of you?

I mean, there was one time...

like, you told me that I kept switching.

Yeah.

'Cause he's, like, anger, you know?

[Orna] Mm-hm.

And then there's, like, the sad...

-That's the little one. -[Orna] Mm-hm.

Yeah, it's almost like stages of grief...

-[Orna] Mm-hm. -That's it's, like--

it's this anger, then it's this sadness,

then this, like, burst of joy,

then back to sad.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

One of the ways that trauma operates is that there is, like,

some kind of sense of danger...

that has to be put somewhere.

Right?

And part of what happens between intimate partners is your

closest person becomes the dangerous object.

[Casimar] Mm.

Sometimes, that's why this relationship is also extra

scary, because I don't wanna be that way,

first and foremost.

Sometimes, my brain just goes to, like,

-pulling the rug, right? -Mm-hm.

[Alexes] Like, "Let me get out."

[Orna] Mm-hm.

"Then, you'll be safe and no one will hurt you,"

you know?

♪pensive string music♪

[Casimar VO] You don't remember us fighting?

I legitimately don't remember.

[Orna VO] Casimar is in great confusion and distress

about how to...

deal with Alexes' switches,

and with the fact that he doesn't remember things that

happen.

So they can have, like, a very intense argument or say things

to each other,

and Casimar will wanna go back to it and refer to it,

and it's gone -- it's gone from the shared narrative.

At moments, he seems almost in despair about that.

[exhales deeply]

[sniffles]

[tearfully] He will never know...

[cries softly]

how hard I try.

It hurts.

Yeah.

And I don't wanna give up.

[Orna] No.

Like...

I don't know how to love a survivor but I'm gonna figure

-it out. -Mm-hm.

♪Love, can we start at the beginning again?♪

♪Won't you tell me the stories all over?♪

♪I've been feeling older, not wiser♪

♪I don't wanna go just yet, just yet♪

♪I just wanna run and run, run, run, run, run♪

♪I can feel the words coming slower♪

♪And the night is getting much closer♪

♪I don't wanna know just yet, just yet♪

♪Wanna say I love you♪

♪At our formica table♪

♪Rewriting family fables♪

♪To say whatever you please♪

♪I wanna hold your hand♪

♪As the dark comes in♪

♪Of all the things I miss♪

♪It's simple in the end♪

♪And it's my favorite picture♪

♪Frames us as all together♪

♪Just need to stay awake♪

♪Just need you to stay♪

♪♪♪