Original subtitles

SIREN WAILS

EXPLOSION

When you were told that your husband was target number one

for the Russian Army, what did that do to your mind?

Volodymyr Zelensky!

CHEERING

He was extraordinarily popular. He impressed immediately. Like, "Wow!"

He played the kind of character

that Ukraine was dreaming about.

Ukraine is the place where the destiny

of this century will be hammered out.

EXPLOSION

We're going to be surrounded

within 40 minutes or so.

This is a threat to democracy for the world.

Imagine...

Imagine being in that situation.

I think it's the President

who can really tell this story.

EXPLOSION

SIREN WAILS

Security came and said, like,

"You have to go to the shelter."

Zelensky said, like, "Number-one thing that we need..."

He said, "I don't need machine guns.

"One or two more will not help you if...", you know, like,

"..but make sure we have another Starlink,

"because if we lose internet, this is going to be a problem."

Because we needed to communicate all the time

and we needed internet for this.

Here, it's total uncertainty. Totally.

Nobody knows what to do, what is the right way to do.

Nobody can teach you, mentor you, or whatever.

Every five minutes, you'd get a call from somebody like

President of United States, you know, France, Norway - you name it.

It was all in our, you know, one room.

When you get a call from one person, it's like, "Macron is calling."

"OK, tell him I'll call him back in five minutes."

ZELENSKY: Russia, that is very terrible, what they do.

So, you know, they are now

in some more cities.

The centres of some regions.

They have tanks, airplanes.

Already, they are there,

and now they're in Kyiv.

We are fighting in Kyiv, Emmanuel.

They are with special forces

and helicopters, or...?

Yes, aeroplanes and helicopters, everything.

We see it in video.

We see it, everything. A lot of them.

Do you have an idea on how many civilians were killed already?

No. Thousands.

And what about you?

Are you in security yourself?

I think so.

Are you sure, or do you think so?

I think so, I'm sure.

I think nobody is in safety situation now in Kyiv.

I think so because we are in the circle of Russian Army.

So, which means that they sent special forces...

..everywhere in Kyiv?

Everywhere. In Kyiv, in Odesa,

and from Belorussia.

So we fight everywhere on our territory. Everywhere in troops.

We wouldn't imagine that... It's not the same like it was in 2014.

So, it's much better... Much, much, much more, I mean.

It's much more. Mm.

No, it's clear. It's total war.

Yes, total war.

OK. Erm...

OK. Yes.

So, I think, Emmanuel, it's very important you to speak with Putin

and very important to make an anti-war coalition.

We are sure that European leaders and Biden can connect

and they call him and say, "Stop", he will stop.

He will listen you.

And what I want to say, just stop the war and speak with him.

But he will... He will ask where you are ready to go.

You're ready to sit down around the table and start negotiating?

Of course. OK. We have to. Of course, we have to.

OK. Volodymyr, as soon as I have feedback from this side,

I will do it, and let me refer to you on what we can do.

I mean, for sure, very few things on the Russian side,

but let me see with my people what could make sense to help

on this issue.

OK, thank you. Now, take care.

Thank you. Bye. Take care.

Oui.

Bon...

SIREN WAILS

I made a lot of different decisions quickly those day.

It was the longest day, I think, of my life.

The longest one.

Yeah.

I'm really thankful that I have such...

..such...

..a possibility to...to do what I can for Ukraine.

I wanted very much to do something,

but I've got...

..this chance to do everything.

SIREN WAILS

Zelensky started to communicate,

to speak out, and actually

address the Ukrainians,

with his own tone

and with his own, you know, ability to feel empathy.

CHILD CRIES

REPORTER: Putin's forces are advancing from the north, the east

and the south, and the capital, Kyiv, is now under direct threat.

Everybody in the country started to be prepared for the fight.

We started to give away the weapons on the street.

REPORTER: The Ukrainian government is literally handing out guns

to citizens, and authorities are encouraging people

to make their own Molotov cocktails and prepare for what could be

a long, ugly insurgency.

Slava Ukraini.

Everybody wanted to fight Russia. I saw

old ladies making camouflage nets,

students bottling Molotov cocktails.

Nobody thought that this would be how we would spend our weekend.

Like, nobody thought. But now, we're doing this,

and it seems like the only important thing to do now.

At first, erm, we were scared.

Really scared.

But now, we are ready to fight.

And, like, fight like hell, so...

APPLAUSE

REPORTER: All around the city, they are building defences.

The streets are scattered with scrap-metal spikes and tyres

and huge metal anti-tank hedgehogs.

Zelensky had transformed.

He looked, not like a soldier,

but he looked like a civilian volunteer.

Bear in mind that his team, a lot of them are showrunners.

They worked on Servant of the People.

They understand TV, they understand how you tell a story.

I think that was also a way that he brought everyone with him.

EXPLOSION

The world leaders were frozen...

..in decision-making.

I spoke to Zelensky.

He said, like, "If we cannot reach properly to the leaders,

"then we have to reach out to their voters and they will listen."

That was his... That was calculated.

He said, like, "We have to wake them up."

REPORTER: So, in the past hour, we've heard that President Zelensky

of Ukraine is going to address the European Parliament.

APPLAUSE

I think his acting skills,

of course, helped him,

but he was...

Er, the main reason of his success is that

he was sincere.

He was focused. He pressured

the international community,

he embarrassed them, if he had to.

APPLAUSE

When a few countries were dithering,

Zelensky was punchy and...didn't let them off.

And our Union, for the first time ever,

is using the European budget to purchase and deliver

military equipment to a country that is under attack.

APPLAUSE

You now have the floor, President.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

The back of my neck started sort of tingling

because, of course, he referenced Shakespeare. "To be, or not to be".

And, of course, those were Ukraine's options.

You know, to be a free, proud, democratic, successful,

Westward-orientated country, or to be a satellite of Russia -

to become Putin's slaves, in effect. To be, or not to be.

I think he has a great gift of, erm,

both inspiring sympathy,

but also, being fantastically optimistic.

APPLAUSE

CLAPPING AND CHEERING

Because he came from TV comedy shows

that everybody can identify with,

he struck a chord with the global public

in a way that no other Ukrainian leader could have done.

CHEERING

I brought from those time to this job

this communication with the people, because you have to try.

I really...

..loved people because I communicated with them.

And if you don't love,

you will be tired.

CROWD: Heroiam slava!

Zelensky's ability to communicate secured

the level of support, the number of weapons,

and the quality of weapons that Ukraine got

to really turn the tables on the Russians.

Zelensky was telling me

he was a Jewish and little - in terms of the height -

guy in Kryvyi Rih,

a very industrial city.

So he was beaten,

I believe, in the childhood.

He always said, like, you find the guy who is the chief,

punch his face, and then all other people realise that you are,

you know, like, the good guy to deal with.

EXPLOSION

Not many people believed that

we will be strong and stay more than

three days against second army

in the world. We stay.

We continue surprise.

What enabled the Ukrainians to sort of stop

this mighty Russian war machine was pluck and bravery.

Hi. Nice to meet you.

You're very welcome.

Each day, you have to do something for people.

Something... Maximum you can during the war, of course,

maximum you can. But do what...

Do what you can.

LAUGHTER

In one of our interviews, he said,

"People see this war on Instagram.

"When they get sick of it, they will scroll away."

So he knew that time was limited.

CHEERING

CHANTING

CHEERING

BELL CHIMES

Can you see your family?

No. No.

I can't.

Work and sleep, that's it.

I worked a lot.

I always worked a lot.

Because I knew that...

Always, I knew that if you want to get the result...

..and if you want to show quality of your job, of the result of your job,

you have to work a lot.

You have to study a lot. A lot.

When everybody work, you work. When everybody sleep, you work.

That is my answer.

Did you manage to ever communicate with him?

I got the call from someone

of the Zelensky team,

and this guy said, "OK, put us in touch with someone.

"We need to speak with this bastard."

Yeah.

So they were asking you to find... To put them in touch...

..with the Kremlin? With... Yeah. Not with the Kremlin.

But somebody who had Putin's ear. Somebody who would be able to...

Yes. Did you? What did you do?

I called Roman.

Roman Abramovich? Abramovich.

I called him. It was six o'clock

and he was in France.

I said, "So, listen, these guys want to talk to you."

He said to me, "So, you want me to play the political games?"

I said, "This is a war."

That's how it started. And I

put him in touch with the people.

And that's... Zelensky's people? Of course, yeah.

We formed a very quick delegation and the President said, like,

"Davyd should run it."

I said, like, "Yeah, I'll try it."

I never had any diplomatic experience,

so I had no clue what I'm going to do,

what I'm going to talk to, and we went.

We were six or seven of us.

We were nervous, honestly.

You're coming to the enemy territory to talk.

The Minister of Defence had two security guys,

who advised him

not to eat, not to drink - nothing.

First thing I did, like, when we came, they give...

It was like a kind of hotel.

I opened the fridge and there was some sausages and everything.

I ate everything. I said, like, "I'm going to be the volunteer."

I ate everything. I said, like, "Sounds good. Let's go and talk."

They had this stereotype.

Black ties and so on.

I came with a hat.

On the first session, when they were saying,

"Listen, you don't have any chances to survive

"because we've got so big, powerful army",

I said, like, "Listen, while we are talking now,

"we already gave away on the streets 150,000 guns.

"When we finish today's session, it's probably going to be a million.

"So don't tell me, like, that we have no chances."

And that was, like... They were writing down, you know,

all this reports. I was bluffing a little bit. There was probably

ten times less. But I made an impression.

We needed to buy the time.

Every day that I was buying, we got some new stuff coming through

Polish border. You know, like, the weapons and stuff.

You've sent your delegation to meet

the Russians for talks. Yeah.

Is there any hope, as the world watches, for diplomacy?

First of all, everybody has to stop...stop fighting,

and that is very important moment.

If you do this, and if those side is ready,

it means that they are ready for the peace.

If they don't ready, it means wasting time.

And do you think you're wasting your time,

or do you think they're ready? We'll see.

On the fourth round of negotiations,

I moved it to Istanbul.

The Russians brought 100-people delegation.

They are victims of their own propaganda.

I found the formula how the Russian really works.

First, he writes some crazy theories,

then they put this on TV,

then they watch their own TV and start to believe it.

And it's like a cycle. It's like it's real.

And when we were talking to these people,

they really believed that we have, like, full of Nazis

killing people on the street, all this stuff.

150 million people living in this country,

they're watching the TV and they are believing these things.

What happens when you point out the President is Jewish?

That was my biggest argument. It's like,

"How the Nazis would elect a Jewish President?"

It was, like, kind of put them in a bad position.

And they said, like, "This is some special UK operation!"

This is always a good answer for any insane thing

that you need to confirm.

We agree about everything except the territories,

and the territories is up to discussions

when Putin and Zelensky meet in person.

Three or four times, there was a possibility they will finally meet,

but Putin wanted to meet only to sign a pre-agreed document.

I offered, "If you just need to sign, you can use Docusign", I said.

"There's software for this. You don't have to meet.

"If you don't want to discuss anything, why do we need to meet?"

And they was like, for these old guys, like, "Docu, what?"

I said, "Docusign. Docusign.com."

You know, like, I tried to...

I need to buy the time, anyway, you know,

so I gave them some time for research.

Once the Russians were defeated in the Battle of Kyiv,

they left behind these crime scenes,

these towns, in cities like Bucha...

..where horrible atrocities took place.

Zelensky was in Bucha a few days

after the Russians pulled out.

People were being tortured, raped,

disappeared,

butchered.

When you see hundreds of bodies of innocent people killed

in a small city which is considered to be the suburb of Kyiv,

so damaged, so devastated.

And I remember Zelensky and his face,

and he was killed by that.

Bucha, psychologically, changed everything.

I wanted to ask about Bucha and the visit there,

and the effect it had on President Zelensky personally.

He... He was shocked.

He was... It's... You know, it's...

It's one of the most terrible days in our life.

It's still in...in our eyes and in our heart and, uh,

and it's impossible to forget.

When Bucha happened, the first two days, they tried to persuade myself

that this is a spectacle

that MI6 built to shock the world

and get some more weapons.

This is like, they really believed in that.

President called my mobile.

He realised that they are not the kind of people

that we could get an agreement with.

He said, like, "Tell these assholes to go home."

And he said, "We come after them."

What looked like a weakness

turned out to be

the strongest point of Zelensky,

the strongest, you know, side of his nature in Ukraine.

His ability to be...

..actually, to feel for his people.

He kept this personality of the human being.

BELL CHIMES

MILITARY BAND PLAYS

Putin, he's from Soviet period.

He's Soviet person, but, you know, my parents,

also from Soviet period.

But it's something different.

To be the President of Russia, to attack Ukraine,

to kill persons in Germany or somewhere,

I think for him, it's a job.

I... I'm not Putin,

so I will not be 30 years, or...25 years, President.

I will not be. Really? No.

HE CHUCKLES No. Trust me!

And... And so it means that after this job,

I have to go through this job...

..to be respectable

and for even...even respect myself.

For me, it's very important, for my family, my children.

For me, it's very important.

And to help Ukraine, to do what I can,

the best way I can.

Putin can't accept defeat.

He's decided, at this point, that he will outlast

their ability to resist,

he will wear them down, he will bombard them.

Putin is completely indifferent

to the loss of human life. Always has been.

SHE SOBS

When you have to make decisions which you know are likely

to lead to the death of men and women, how do you manage that?

That is the most difficult...

The biggest difficulties in my life.

Because I...

When I... When you make some of such decisions,

..for me, it's difficult always.

I have a lot of questions to myself.

And there are some questions on which

I didn't get, till now, answers.

All these questions are about lives.

I saw this... I remember these people - a lot of them.

I saw a lot of parents - a lot of them.

I gave orders, Golden Stars for the heroic...

..heroic deaths of these...of their children,

or of their husbands and wives. And that is...

That is a big, big challenge for me.

I think the biggest one.

SOMBRE MUSIC

How often do you see your husband?

The woman we spent an hour and a half with two days ago,

your wife, the First Lady... Hour and a half?

INTERVIEWER LAUGHS

That was long.

She was generous with her time! That's great.

That's great.

I'm happy that you had this chance.

Not always, I have such chances, so...

Nice to meet you. Thank you for coming.

Zelensky underwent an extraordinary transition

from comedian and movie star

to now, a leader of a country

at war, courted by politicians,

Prime Ministers,

Presidents and movie stars.

Hi, Sean. Hello, Mr President.

Nice to meet you. Great to see you.

You are welcome. Great to see you again.

You're looking good. Oh, thank you.

This is for you. No, Sean!

Yes. No! Please.

That is yours. No, I feel terrible outside...

It's just a symbolic, silly thing... Yes, but it's...

But if I know this is here with you,

then I'll feel better and stronger for the fight.

It's so great, great honour, but until we win.

When you win, bring it back to Malibu.

Great. Yes. Great, OK.

Because I'll feel much better

knowing there's a piece of me here.

We have to win.

We have to win quick.

Zelensky and the Ukrainians

achieved an incredible military victory,

but it became clear, by the end of 2023,

just how difficult and, erm,

how long this war could be.

Ukraine's struggle

is an existential one,

and one with profound consequences

for our century,

and which system prevails -

the one of democracy,

self-determination, or the one of

dictatorship and brute force.

And the two personalities at the heart of this tussle

couldn't be more different.

APPLAUSE

# Gory, gory

# What a hell of a way to die

# Gory, gory

# What a hell of a way to die

# Gory, gory

# What a hell of a way to die

# He ain't going to jump no more... #

APPLAUSE

APPLAUSE

Putin is playing the dirty gamble,

expecting the West to get exhausted to support Ukraine,

and betray it.

And Zelensky is trying to unify

the West in support of Ukraine

and inspire the Ukrainians in fighting the Russians.

And this is a fight of years.

The longer the war goes on,

the harder it gets for Volodymyr Zelensky.

The Ukrainian Army desperately needs to enlist more troops.

The fervour, the enthusiasm,

the queues of patriotic volunteers wanting to fight has dissipated.

Every time I come back and see my Ukrainian friends,

they show me a video of someone they know who's been killed.

Zelensky has faced some criticism.

The election which was supposed to take place in May of 2024

was cancelled, understandably.

But there is a certain amount of unease.

There are worries about

corruption in Ukraine.

Some people suggest Zelensky

hasn't dealt with corruption effectively enough.

And I think the biggest problem of all is that Ukrainians

just don't know how long the war is going to last.

Five years, ten years, 20 years? We don't know.

I don't think any one of us is able even to imagine

this grade of pressure he has, of burden he has on his shoulder.

In many ways, he's quite difficult to recognise.

He's no longer...

..the funny man.

He's not surrounded by just a gang of friends any more.

As a part of our history,

we have to pass this way.

And it's great that we have such a leader

in such a tragic part of our history.

And I'm really proud that he's my friend.

Do you think about life after the war

and what you and Volodymyr will do?

Is your husband an optimist?

I think he's the greatest optimist.

In this situation, especially.

How do you keep going? How do you manage?

I have to.

It's... I understand that I have to.

I can't betray the people's choice

and their...I mean, this belief in me.

And I love Ukraine.

And I love to... What does it mean, "love Ukraine"?

I love... Everything...

The best what I had was in Ukraine and with Ukraine.

My wife, my children,

my movies in my previous work,

and my presidential choice.

So everything what I have, this is Ukraine.

That's why I have to.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Thank you. It's very good of you to give us so much time.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. All the best.

To find out more about Ukraine and some of the influential people

whose stories have shaped it,

go to bbc.co.uk/zelensky,

and follow the links to the Open University's interactive gallery.