Original subtitles

-You were a tenant. -Mm-hmm.

She got aggressive, and then she grabbed my hair,

and she pulled me from the laundry room to the kitchen.

I told her that she needs to start looking for a place.

You can't tell her to leave tomorrow 'cause she's got a fresh mouth.

You took rent from her. That made her a tenant.

Not her mother.

[narrator] This is Judy Justice.

[narrator] Ofelia Gutierrez is suing her former tenant,

Ashley Chavez, for property damage, breach of agreement,

and unpaid utility bills.

[Kevin] Court, come to order. All rise.

Have a seat, please.

Judge, case 4116, Gutierrez vs. Chavez.

-Thank you. -You're welcome.

-Miss Chavez, how old are you? -I'm 18.

And from the time you were a toddler

until the time you were, let's say, 17, where were you living?

So, I was living with my parents until I was around 15,

and then I got a good job where I could sustain myself,

so I decided to move out.

You moved out of your parents' house when you were 15.

-Mm-hmm. -[Judy] Who did you live with?

I lived with my co-workers. We all worked at a nail shop.

We had a good relationship, so I lived with them, and I rented a room.

What happened with that?

I ended up switching jobs, and I couldn't maintain myself,

so I ended up moving back in with my parents.

[Judy] And when was that?

That was around, let me see... 2023, summer of 2023.

Mm-hmm.

And then, I worked at a restaurant for awhile.

Then, I was able to make up rent money again,

so I decided to move out again. And that was with Ofelia.

[Judy] How did you meet her?

So, she works with my father. And awhile back, maybe when I was 13,

she hosted a party which she invited me to,

so I ended up meeting her and her daughters.

And from there, she kinda just continues to be like,

"If you ever need anything, or if you need a room,

just let me know. I'm always here for you."

So, um, I kind of thought I could depend on her.

[Judy] Okay. Now, when you left your parents' home,

when you were 15, did you drop out of school?

Uh, not initially. But when I was 16, I couldn't really do it anymore.

So, I ended up getting my GED instead.

-[Judy] Did you get your GED? -Yes, ma'am.

Did you think about ever doing anything else with your GED?

Well, I'm thinking of maybe going to college in the future.

You sound like a very smart young lady, that you have some good raw materials.

It would be a shame to let those go to waste.

You know, you only have one journey,

and nobody's gonna make you the hero of your story unless it's you.

Mm.

Bouncing around from a restaurant to a nail salon.

If you have a brain that you could do so much more with,

it's going to leave you very frustrated.

Yeah.

Who is this?

[Ashley] This is my boyfriend.

-[Judy] What does he do? -[Ashley] He is in construction.

-[Judy] Do you live together now? -No.

[Judy] How long has he been your boyfriend?

Uh, over nine months now.

[Judy] Okay. When you moved in with Miss Gutierrez,

you had a rent relationship.

You were a tenant.

And how much rent were you supposed to pay?

-So, we agreed on $400 monthly... -[Judy] Starting when?

From March 13th, 2024.

Did you move in and pay her her rent?

-[Ashley] Yes, ma'am. -[Judy] How long did you stay?

I stayed there until August 7th or 8th.

And tell me what happened.

So, on August 7th, I came home with Jacob.

And I went to go put my clothes in the dryer,

when I hear her come out of her room.

Her room is in the kitchen. So, she comes out.

Then, I kind of hear her behind the door. And when I opened the door,

she's there, standing there.

She's like, "You're bringing people in through the back.

I don't know why you're bringing people in through the back."

She was just accusing me. She got aggressive,

and then she grabbed my hair, and she pulled me

from the laundry room to the kitchen.

Then she told me, "I have video evidence.

What are you gonna do if I show you video evidence?"

I told her, "Show me," because I knew I didn't.

Me and Jacob came in the front door.

She does have tenants in the back.

That would explain people coming in through the back.

But it wasn't us. She was just accusing me.

She put her hands on me.

So, I ended up filing a police report the next day.

And I was just over it.

We ended up getting in an argument over text messages

-because of that. -[Judy] On what day?

That was on August 8th. She put her hands on me on August 7th.

-The pulling your hair. -Yes.

August 8th. What happened on the 8th?

I went to go file the police report, and I started moving out my things.

In the messages of the argument, she told me,

"You have to be out by today--" or tomorrow, I'm sorry.

Okay. But on August 8th, you started to move out.

Mm-hmm. I just didn't want to argue, and at that point,

I had accepted that I wasn't able to resolve that.

So, I ended up moving out. While I was moving out,

her daughter comes to the door,

and she tells me, "I want to have a talk with you."

-I told her, "No, I'm busy." -Daughter? Which one?

So, it was the one in the blue.

That was me, Your Honor, yes.

-[Judy] What's your first name? -Martina Romero.

[Judy] Martina. Okay, go ahead.

So, I was moving out my things. I told her no, I'm busy.

Maybe you can, like, maybe later.

Because I was in the process of moving out.

Then, she told me, she came in two more times, like, knocked the door.

She was like, "I want to talk to you." At that point, I opened the door.

And I was like, "Sure, let's talk."

Um, we were talking, and then, she like, started getting angry.

[Judy] What were you talking about?

She got upset that I was telling her mom what I was saying in the messages.

Well, tell me what it was she was getting angry at.

So, I have messages where me and her mother were arguing,

and she got upset over us arguing.

We were arguing over, I'm not sure. Would you like to see the messages?

May I see them, please?

'Kay, give me one second.

Sorry, it's a lot of them. Here you go.

-That's all of them? -Yes.

Okay. So, the first couple of pages are about people coming in the back.

-Right. -[Judy] You ask her on the 7th

-to move out. -Yes, after that.

Yes, Your Honor.

Well, it's clear that you two, based upon the back and forth of these,

were not happy with each other.

You were not happy with her because you thought of her as a young kid

whom you were giving an opportunity to live in your house.

That's correct, Your Honor.

The problem is you took rent from her. That made her a tenant.

Not her mother.

You asked her, and what did she say to you?

She just ignored me.

She didn't ignore you. Did she say, "I don't know what happened"?

Did she tell you what happened?

She said she don't know what happened.

[Judy] Then don't say, "She ignored me."

That's not the same thing as she's saying, "I don't know what happened."

-You know there is a difference in that? -Yes.

Now, you have to prove to me whatever damages were caused by her.

[narrator] Ofelia Gutierrez claims her former tenant,

Ashley Chavez, damaged property while renting her room.

Ashley is countersuing for an unlawful eviction

and damages from an assault.

Now, if you wanted to be an altruistic friend, you could've said,

"If you want to come to my house for a few days, you can come,

but this is a short-term arrangement. We'll see how it works out.

If it doesn't work out, you can leave." But once you take her money for 30 days,

you have contracted a landlord and tenant relationship.

You can't tell her to leave tomorrow 'cause she's got a fresh mouth.

The law doesn't give you that right.

Yes, Your Honor. But it was just temp--

I told her that she needs to start looking for a place in the next few months.

And she take longer, and it makes things more complicated.

No, no, no. I read all these text messages.

All these text messages tell her that she has to be out by tomorrow.

And she says to you, I'm paid until the 13th.

And I plan on staying until the 13th. And you have to give me 30 days' notice.

You can't just put me out on the street. And you do.

Your Honor, I'd also like to interject and say that we had a verbal agreement

that was under everyone in that household, that we followed rules

that consisted of everyone. Like, she had rules--

I don't care about your rules.

If she broke the rules, then what you do, if she broke the rules...

Let's say she did in fact have other men into the house.

She says she didn't. The only person she had was her boyfriend.

You do have other tenants in the house.

No, not in the house.

-[Judy] In the back. -I have a studio in the back, yes.

-[Judy] In the back, on your premises. -Yes.

-And that is a male tenant. -[Ofelia] Yes.

But I do have evidence that the male was coming from the back and from the front.

-[Judy] It doesn't matter. -Okay.

You may not like what she's doing, but you can't say,

"I don't like what you're doing, you're a kid, you're out."

You can't say that as long as you've taken rent.

If she's not following the house rules, then, that's what you say:

"After next month, you have to go." No more rent.

But once you've created a relationship of landlord and tenant,

you cannot unilaterally change it. That means, just you can't change it.

You both have to change it. Okay.

I don't know what your lawsuit is about. Is it about damaged property?

Yes. Yes, Your Honor.

[Judy] What property do you claim she damaged and when?

My house. When she--

[Judy] Just a second. She didn't damage your whole house.

What did she damage?

-Bathroom. -[Judy] Bathroom?

-Bathroom. -[Judy] Show me pictures.

She came on what date?

[Ofelia] March 13th.

[Judy] March 13th.

And you left in August.

August 9th.

-[Judy] I don't know what this is. -That's her bedroom.

-Okay. Tell me what this is. -[Ofelia] This is the bathroom.

It was a fire in one of the connections.

I don't know if she put water or something,

but it was a fire on the house because of her being negligent.

[Judy] Well, how many bathrooms are there in the house?

Uh, we have three. And she was using that one.

-Only her was using this one. -[Ofelia] Yes, only her.

Do you know how this happened?

No. And we all shared a bathroom. I also have evidence of that.

Me and her daughters shared a bathroom. They would argue with me

because they said I didn't take turns cleaning it or mopping it.

They wanted me to mop it every other week. And so, we--

[Judy] Just a second. You had a bathroom?

Yeah, I have a bathroom.

So, there are two other bathrooms in the house.

-Yes. -[Judy] How many people in the house?

-Only us. -[Judy] What's "us"?

My daughters and me.

[Judy] Is what you're telling me, she had her own--

Is what you're telling me, she had her own bathroom,

and your daughters shared a bathroom?

No, they have a bathroom... they use my bathroom.

I'm the master room.

Her bathroom was next to her room.

Sometimes, they use it to, like, go to the bathroom.

So, the answer is, your daughters also used that bathroom.

-[Ofelia] Yes. -Then just answer the question.

Sometimes, yes.

So, tell me about when this incident happened

that you claim is due to her negligence.

That happened like a month before she moved.

Um, we noticed something smelled like burnt all over the house.

So, when I checked her bathroom--

No, their bathroom.

Well, their bathroom, okay. I noticed this shadow on the tiles,

and it smelled like burnt.

So, I have to bring the electrician, and he told me that it was water on it.

-And? -[Ofelia] And I gotta fix it.

-I asked her-- -Just a second.

-You asked her-- -I asked her--

You asked her, and what did she say to you?

She just ignored me.

[Judy] Did she say, "I don't know what happened"?

Or did she tell you what happened?

She said she don't know what happened.

[Judy] Then don't say, "She ignored me."

That's not the same thing as she's saying, "I don't know what happened."

-You know there is a difference in that? -Yes.

There's a difference in saying… [scoffs] "I'm not answering you,"

or "I don't know what happened."

So, now, you have to prove to me whatever damages is caused by her.

Prove it.

There is the pictures, and there is the quotes from people that fixed my bathroom.

And her bedroom, because she leave it in really bad condition

-when she moved. -[Judy] Let me tell you this.

You have to prove it. You have what appears to be

some sort of an electrical fire. She was not in the bathroom

at the time you noticed the smell. And your daughters all use that bathroom,

so that unless you have proof that she caused it,

you have no case against her for this.

What about the sink? The sink was broke, and the toilet--

Just a second. I don't have a picture of the sink and the toilet.

I have a picture of a scratch in a pink room, and some holes.

But I don't have the picture of anything else.

The sink is on the tub, inside of the tub, because it was broke.

Who put it in the bathtub?

We have to put it there because it was broke.

Just a second. That's a "who?" Who put the sink in the bathtub?

-Me. -[Judy] Okay.

You put it in the bathtub yourself?

-[Ofelia] Yes. -[Judy] When?

The day when she move out, next day I start cleaning everything,

and I notice that the sink was broke. So, I just move it there.

Good. And what proof do you have that she broke it?

She was the one using the bathroom.

[Judy] No, they were using the bathroom as well.

They just sometimes, but not... it was not their bathroom, Your Honor.

-They use it because it was next-- -[Judy] Next!

Next.

I don't know anything about construction.

I don't know anything about construction either. I'm a television personality.

I know that if I have scratches on my paint,

I go to Home Depot, I'll buy some putty,

and on a day when I'm not really committed to annoying my husband,

I will get over there and I will patch up those holes.

And I don't mind doing that.

[narrator] Ofelia Gutierrez has accused her former tenant,

Ashley Chavez, of damaging her property.

Ashley is countersuing, claiming Ofelia's daughters assaulted her.

Okay. So far, you have nothing, nada. Let's go.

Well, I have all the invoices that I paid to fix my bathroom.

I'm not interested in your bathroom. It's a shared bathroom.

Not interested. What's next?

-Well, she-- -[Judy] Next! Next.

Not interested.

She did not have exclusive use of the bathroom.

You can't tell who caused damage to the bathroom. Let's move on.

Let's move on. What else did she damage in your house?

She damaged the pool cleaner. She was bringing people over.

I have a pool cleaner that it cleans my pool.

It was broke. After she moved, I noticed that it was broke too.

So, I have to replace it for another one. They're not cheap.

She was bringing a lot of people over and used my entire house.

-You're the two daughters. -Yes, Your Honor.

[Judy] How long have you lived in that house?

For about four years now.

How many times have you used the pool?

Look at me. Careful. How many times have you used the pool?

Probably twice a month. Twice a month.

How about you? How many times have you used the pool?

Same time, twice a month.

Fine. Get a filter. Next!

-What about the damages of my-- -[Judy] Next!

Your Honor? I'd like, oh. I'd like to talk about--

Next.

We're not even to the assault yet.

First, everything broken in your house, she's not responsible for.

You've got a lot of other people living there.

Aside from your two daughters and the tenant living in the back,

who else lives in the house?

Only us. And the tenants, they don't use my pool.

[Judy] I didn't ask about the pool. I said, who else is in your house?

Only us. Only my two daughters and myself and when she was with us.

Good. Okay. What is next that you think she's responsible for?

Your Honor, she's responsible for all that.

-[Judy] She's not responsible. -And she bring her boyfriend too.

[Judy] She's not responsible for any of that so far. I'm ruling that.

She did not have exclusive use of your pool cleaner,

of the sink in the bathroom. She's not responsible for any of that.

She brought her boyfriend over, and what does that have to do with damage?

Because she use the whole house too.

Could we move on, please?

What else did she damage, you allege, in your house?

Yes. Her room, when she move out.

[Judy] Show me a picture.

Yes. The paint was perfectly fine when she move--

-Is this what you're talking about? -[Ofelia] It was--

Shh!

-Is this what you're talking about? -[Ofelia] Yes.

[Judy] Okay. Now I'd like to see an invoice,

what you paid to paint over these little spots.

-Yes. -And to fill in these little holes.

How did you make these little holes?

If I'm not mistaken, we, uh, all, me, her and my boyfriend,

put a mirror up on the wall, and she participated.

-[Judy] It was for you? -Mm-hmm.

So, that's what it was. It was for a mirror.

[Ashley] Yes, ma'am.

[Judy] Okay. Now, I need an invoice to patch these places up.

Not happening for you, madam.

This is worth fifty bucks, maximum.

Listen to me. This is worth fifty bucks, maximum.

If you go to the store, you pay for primer, you pay for putty.

You bought a knife in order to put the knife in.

You bought sandpaper. You bought all the stuff that's necessary

to fix these scratches, maybe, at the high end, you'd spend $50.

You see, my problem with you is when you give me, for this,

some bill for $3,500, I don't believe anything that you say.

Do you understand?

May I say something?

[Judy] Say whatever you want.

Um, she covered the room, the whole room, full of pictures.

She do like drawings and stuff, and she put pins all over the room.

Show me pictures.

I didn't take pictures because--

[Judy] Then I can't help you.

I don't work in construction for me to be fixing my house.

I have to bring someone to fix it properly.

I don't know anything about construction.

I don't know anything about construction either. I'm a television personality.

I know that if I have scratches on my paint,

and I don't keep a can of that color paint in a basement

or in a closet, I go to Home Depot,

I take a little bit of the paint, and I say, do me a favor,

can you match me a little tiny thing of paint?

And give me a brush; I'll buy some putty.

And on a day when I'm not really committed to annoying my husband,

I will get over there and I will patch up those holes and sand it.

And I guarantee you, madam, that I went to more years of college

and post-doctoral work than you did, and I don't mind doing that.

I don't mind either, Your Honor, but it was the full walls--

It's not the whole wall for me.

Because all I see are the pictures that you did in fact take.

That you did take. So, you knew enough to bring evidence.

But this is three little white spots.

This looks like something rubbed against it.

And here, we have one, two, three, four, five, six holes that have to be filled in.

That's not $3,500. Next!

Your Honor, on the topic of the room, she did damage the window.

There's picture evidence of that in the conversation.

There's no picture evidence in a conversation.

Do you understand what I just said to you?

There's no picture evidence in a conversation.

Pardon, I meant, in the messages that she sent.

I'm going to repeat, I want to see pictures

of damage.

You have the photographs. It's the one with the window.

[Judy] Okay. You're talking about taking out the window screen.

Did you take out the window screen?

-I did. -In order to smoke weed?

No. I opened the window, and then the thing that holds the bugs,

I guess, just came out. That's all that happened.

What was the reason you remove it? Because you tried--

Don't speak to her.

I closed the door, and that's when she pushed through

and she started attacking me. She pushed me on the bed,

and that's when I kicked her. She also started punching me.

I would say around 10 to 15 times. Her sister also jumped in,

and I was trying to fight them at the same time

while I'm being pinned down on the bed.

Now I'll see your video.

[narrator] Are you a victim of an assault?

Go to JudyJustice.tv.