All language subtitles for His.Name.Was.Arthur.Leigh.Allen.2008.1080p.BluRay.x264.AAC-[YTS.GG - YTS.BZ]

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In the fall of 1958,
I had been at a house party...

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...held by one of my classmates.

And we were getting overly friendly.

But it was not a--
I don't wanna imply that there may--

That may have been sexual.

We were just, you know, dancing close
and may have kissed or something.

But nothing more than that.

And she was going steady
with someone else...

...who took exception to my behavior.

By the time I got home that night...

...my father had waited up for me
to come home and it was quite late.

It was probably at
2 or 2:30 in the morning.

And he-- My dad told me,
"There was a guy here looking for you."

And described the car
that the guy was in.

And I knew it was the car driven
by this woman's boyfriend.

And I said, "Don't worry about it.
You know, it will pass. It's nothing."

And I lived in--

I stayed in what would be considered today
an in-law apartment...

...aside from the house, it was
separate from the main house.

So I was in bed, in my boxer shorts
and there was a knock on the door.

I knew immediately who it was, you know,
and it--

And I got up and I opened the door.
And this guy came in.

This was the woman's boyfriend.

I shut the door. And then we had words.

And I don't know what those words were.
Wouldn't even attempt to paraphrase them.

That they were exactly what you might
expect that conversation to have been.

And a fight ensued.

And I don't remember if I punched him first
or he swung at me, whatever.

But I punched him
and he went down to his knees.

And when he did,
he grabbed ahold of my genitalia.

And was holding on. And just...

...a minute amount of panic
ran through my body...

...as I began to just
start punching his head.

And at that moment, the door...

...the main door of that apartment I was in,
just imploded.

It wasn't that the door came loose
or opened.

It came right off the hinges.
That door imploded...

...and came right down and a big man
came through that door, carrying a knife.

And I could see in that man's face,
in his eyes...

...that man was devoid
of an immortal soul.

That man was on
just a different plane than...

It was terrifying just to look at him.

I had never seen him before.
Never met him.

I don't know that I've ever heard of him
at that time.

His name was Arthur Leigh Allen.

I think it was in '62.

1962.

Sandy Panzarella and myself and Ron
were renting a house together.

And Leigh...

...paid us a visit one time.

He came down and stayed at our place...

...a couple of occasions.

And I got to know him well enough
to know I didn't like him.

And I thought he was reckless.

When he came in, he made a big entry...

...with knives and guns.

And a lot of hoopla.

When he wanted attention
he would go to such extremes.

Like the story about the bug
crawling across the table...

...and then him trying to hit it
with a machete.

He'd startle you. He'd scare you.

He stuck a big knife
into the middle of our kitchen table.

Got everybody's attention.

He told me that he got fired
from the teaching job...

...because he carried a Magnum
under the car seat of--

Under the front seat of his Austin Healey.

And later I found out
he was really arrested for--

He really was fired for child molestation.

He was teaching trampoline
to those little girls over there.

And I suspected it had to do with them.

He wanted to be a teacher.

He liked the children's world.

He liked kids.
He liked to be a part of that world.

To what extent,
I didn't appreciate at the time.

He went a little too far with it obviously.

But he enjoyed children
and they loved him.

But he admitted to using
the screams of a child as a sex toy.

Yup, yes he did. He did use those.

And he said he enjoyed listening
to the screams of a child being beaten.

He told me once that he had been
a victim of cryptorchidism...

...in his adolescence.
Up until his adolescence.

And it hadn't-- It hadn't been
diagnosed or treated until then.

The testes are undescended.

And what that does, of course,
is it would...

...postpone the development
of male secondary sex characteristics...

...until the testes are surgically
brought down into the scrotum.

And I think that probably was also...

...a basis for...

...his feeling of otherness...

...into his early teenage years.

Leigh liked the attention he got
from springboard diving.

Then, of course, as he got older,
that was no longer, you know, a possibility.

And it-- That might have
disappointed him a bit. Yeah.

And then, of course,
when he could no longer teach...

...that, you know,
knocked another leg off the stool.

His favorite thing was-- He thought he could
talk about was red-fucking people...

...which we call RF.

And he had a real strong...

...hatred of authority.

He'd get even...

...if he thought he'd been slighted
or, you know, something wrong.

He'd-- He was a very vindictive person.

Toschi told me these stories
about Arthur Leigh Allen.

And as you know, the way that came about,
I was visiting Toschi...

...and I said,
"I'd read this book on criminology."

And they said, "You know what?

The guy who really did it will often
try to help the police."

I said, "You know, Dave,
you've got 2500 suspects.

Did one of them ever try to help you?
Write you a letter?"

And Toschi says,
"Yeah. I just got it and it's from prison.

And it's from Arthur Leigh Allen.
It says, "I'm sorry it wasn't your man.

I wish I could help."
I went, "That's certainly promising."

Well, eventually, Toschi starts talking about
this trip to the oil refinery...

...where he'd met Allen.

And this had all been initiated
by a man named Don Cheney...

...who was one of Allen's roommates...

...who was an engineer,
who had been in the area...

...and left just before the series of murders
had started.

Well, it was on that
New Year's Day, 1969...

...when we had this conversation.

And I never saw him again after that.

The first thing we talked about
when I arrived there...

...he showed me the watch...

...you know, he'd received
at Christmas and it was in the box...

...with a card and everything was there.

And he asked me what I thought of it.
Was it a good watch?

He had the attitude that maybe
his mother had stiffed him...

...and given him a cheap watch.

But the watch was a Zodiac watch
and it had that little symbol on the face.

He'd been fired from Valley Springs.

And I know that he really sent
a lot of résumés to get that job.

And he liked it over there.

So he got fired and it looked like
he wasn't gonna teach anymore.

And I was concerned about
what he was gonna do and I, you know...

...went over there to kind of pep him up.

And talked to him about career choices
and that sort of thing.

And started asking him
what he was gonna do.

And through some conversation...

...we got up to a point
where he was talking about...

...being a professional...

...criminal.

And he didn't need a good résumé for that.
He could do it anyway.

He said he would give himself an identity
and write letters to the editors...

...and he'd have a name
and it would be Zodiac.

I told him I'd-- I thought, "Well,
you could have a better name than that."

And he wasn't buying any of that,
he was gonna be Zodiac.

So we got in the car
and he drove me up...

...to Blue Rock Springs Country Club.

And we drove through the parking lot.

He'd talked earlier, when he talked about
setting up this random killing situation...

...he said he knew some places
where they parked...

...and he drove by there
and showed me that place.

And then after we passed through there,
we went back around to Lake Herman Road.

And came in past that side.

And we stopped there and Leigh seemed to
want to linger there and look at the place.

And he described...

...what he would like to do
to some girl at that place.

And it wasn't pretty.

When I was sitting there at that spot,
he kind of kept slipping...

...from future tense into past tense on
some of what he was saying to me there.

And I began to think, maybe this
is something that was already history.

I went out there at midnight one time.

And the thing about Lake Herman Road,
it's not just dark.

It's pitch-dark. This is a country road.

I mean, there are cows.
I mean, I cannot see my hands.

And yet the bullets that were fired
by Zodiac, at a run, are in a circle.

At some time while I knew him...

...he showed me a pistol...

...with a penlight attached to the barrel
with masking tape.

And he says, "Point that at the wall
and then look through the sight."

And I did and the spot
was in line with the sight.

It was-- I could see that if you fired it...

...the bullet would go
where that spot was.

Arthur Leigh Allen,
according to his brother, Ron...

...was left-handed when he was born.

Back in those days, when he was born--
He was born in '36, I think.

Back in those days when you were born,
it was kind of a scourge to be left-handed.

And his mother forced him to write
right-handed.

Leigh was ambidextrous.

I never noticed...

...a preference for either hand.

Except I do know that he did
a single twisting forward one and a half...

...the way a left-hander would.

And his double twister twisted
in the right-hand direction.

Which, you know, to me is
an impossible amount of confusion.

I can't imagine
how he would accomplish that.

But it is an indication of a great deal
of left-hand, right-hand confusion.

I always felt if he was actually
the author of those letters...

...he wrote them
with his right hand, you know.

And Toschi and Armstrong...

...from San Francisco Police Department
felt the same.

They tried to get him to write
right-handed.

When they did the search warrant,
at the Sonoma trailer...

...and he just scribbled. He claimed
he couldn't write with his right hand.

Earlier the same day,
he used that phrase about...

...picking the little darlings off
as they come bouncing off the bus.

He was into a rant about--

His feelings about the establishment
and about the school system...

...and one thing or another.

So that was his part of
blowing off steam.

Before I left, I said to Leigh...

...I said, "You really better think
about this stuff a long time...

...before you commit yourself
to do anything."

And he said:

"It's too late for that."

Don came to my office one day and said:

"You know, I'm really troubled
about something that's occurred."

I cogitated. I thought about it
and I stewed about it...

...and eventually I went
to the Pomona Police...

...and tried to tell somebody there...

...what I thought and that I, you know--
That I suspected Leigh was the Zodiac.

Don told me that last time
he was with Leigh...

...he made a statement
he was gonna kill the kiddies...

...as they come bouncing off the bus.

And then that was the phrase
that the Zodiac used.

So Don got alarmed
and he went to the Pomona Police...

...because he was living in Pomona
at the time.

Filed a report and nothing came of it.

The cop was an ideal cop.

He was a big, handsome guy and his name
was Stone or Granite or Slate...

...or something on that order.
Maybe Bullet.

And he listened to me for a while.

And then, I think he just turned it off.

Nothing ever happened.

So I called the police, the policeman
in Miami Beach who I knew personally.

I said, "Who do you call in
San Francisco?" He said he'd look into it.

So he got Armstrong,
Inspector Armstrong...

...to come down and give us guys...

...Don and I, an interview
what we knew about Leigh.

I didn't have as many details
then as I can remember now.

But I was sure it was Leigh.

They were gonna get a warrant
and go to his trailer.

And they didn't go to the house
simultaneously.

And I think it was a mistake they made.

I really expected something would come
of that and something would be done...

...and eventually, it would, you know--

It would hit the news, the arrests
and all of that sort of thing.

Nothing happened.

I became involved in the case
by attrition.

The investigator said,
"No, we're handling it."

Retired, passed away, whatever.

And I didn't have an intricate knowledge
of the case.

Because I was taking it over
from somebody else...

...just simply
because somebody had to do it.

I began really reviewing stuff. I got copies
of the affidavits and the reports...

...from-- For the search warrant
of San Francisco Police Department.

And I read them and I thought...

...you know, there was more
to Arthur Leigh Allen than met the eye.

I felt that San Francisco, after they served
a search warrant in Sonoma...

...maybe should have looked at it harder.

I'm not trying to say anything disparaging
about them.

But it just seemed like
he was more of a viable suspect...

...than they looked at at that time.

I was off duty at the time
Leigh Allen came up as a suspect.

I was recovering from surgery.

And Inspector Armstrong called...

...asked me if I wanted to go on
in the search...

...when they served the warrant
over in Santa Rosa.

They served the search warrant.

Then he called me later and told me
about the results and everything.

The search warrant
didn't prove any results.

You gotta follow the evidence
like in a money case.

Money laundering.
You gotta follow the money.

In criminal investigation,
you gotta follow the evidence.

You can't make the guy fit the evidence.

You gotta make the evidence
fit the individual.

And in this particular case, it never did.

Although he was certainly
a subject of interest.

He fit the general physical description.

He...

...had the background.

Whether or not-- I never met the man.
--he had the killer instinct...

-...I don't know.
-After I looked at it...

...and re-contacted Cheney...

...and re-interviewed him, I thought--

And he came up with a few more things
to add to it.

Things like Arthur Leigh Allen
purposely misspelling words...

...which the Zodiac did in his letters
all the time.

There were so many circumstances that
Cheney talked about Arthur Leigh Allen...

...that fit right in with him, that I felt
that we better take another look at him.

I think maybe he talked about some...

...getting-even schemes.

Like things that--
Tricks that you could do on people...

...like taking the lug nuts off
of somebody's wheel.

Kathleen Johns was a woman
that was down in Central California.

And she claimed...

...that somebody pulled next to her
and said her tire was about to fall off.

And then that person took her and her child
from her car into their car.

Drove them around, scared her.

She was able to jump out on a freeway
over Cook Pass.

Or entrance lane or something,
and hide from this person...

...and ultimately went to the
Paterson Police Department.

And that's-- When she was there,
she saw a picture that was made...

...by the police officers in San Francisco
who had ostensively seen...

...the killer of Paul Stine
walking near the Presidio after the killing.

And she saw this picture
that had been made...

...and passed out to other
police departments.

And she immediately pointed to this picture
and said:

"That's the man
that abducted me in his car."

He told me that, "What you could do
would be...

...to drive up alongside of some lady."

He would never do this to a man.
It was always gonna be a girl.

But-- "And you'd wave your arms and point
the wheel and tell her to pull over.

And when she pulled over, you'd tell her:

'There's something wrong
with your wheel back here.

If you got a lug wrench, I'll--

I'll take care of it for you.'"

Then he would take the lug wrench--

The lug nuts off so that there really
would be something wrong with the wheel.

Back in 1990, when I had
this photo lineup with Arthur Leigh Allen...

...we met with Johns in a Denny's
restaurant down in the San Jose area.

She was likewise shown the photo lineup
and she was unable to pick anybody.

She had a boyfriend at the time.
She wanted him to feel sorry for her.

But that's only my guessing on it.
I don't know. It could have been true.

But something just doesn't feel right
about it.

The Zodiac's willingness to take credit
for crimes that were attributed to him--

The Bates murder in Riverside,
he was willing to take credit for that.

Even though I'm convinced
that he didn't commit that murder.

He was willing to take credit
for the alleged kidnap of Kathleen Johns.

When-- I don't believe that he did that.

But those cases were publicized.

People theorized that he had committed
those crimes and it served his purpose...

...to take credit for those cases.

On that same day, we went out
and the neighbor was out in his backyard.

And Leigh took me over,
introduced me to him.

He was a nice, old gentleman. Old.

Eighty-something.

Before we parted with him...

...he said something like,
"I've seen what's going on over there."

And he kind of gave Leigh
a dressing-down.

And I didn't know what it was about,
but Leigh was angry.

After we went in the house, he told me,
"I'm gonna kill that old man someday."

As many have said,
if what Don Cheney said is true...

...Arthur Leigh Allen
absolutely has to be the Zodiac killer.

Yes, I believe Cheney's story. I believe--

I wonder sometimes...

...if he's not more involved in the case
than he wants to let on.

He--

Leigh had a ball...

...of paraffin...

...to squeeze.

And I had been squeezing it earlier
but then I rolled it...

...and polished it
so that there were no fingerprints left on it.

And he wanted a fingerprint...

...so I put my thumb on it
and pressed it down. My right thumb.

And then I left.

When I went to Washington
to interview him...

...the interview just--

Something, a sixth sense
or whatever it may be, didn't feel right.

So I asked Cheney
if he'd take a polygraph.

And we went to the Washington
State Police and they-- In Tacoma.

And they ran--
Were gonna run a polygraph.

But he drank too much the night before.
He knew he was scheduled for this.

And just came in, terribly hung-over,
couldn't take it.

Then took it later,
came back inconclusive.

Things like that I didn't really care for.

And then now I understand lately,
he's come out and said...

...that he--
Since the information has come out...

...regarding San Francisco
Police Department...

...trying to get DNA off stamps
that might have been licked by the Zodiac...

...Cheney's come out and made mention
that he and Arthur were doing something...

...and Arthur had him licking his stamps.

After I came in,
he showed me the watch.

And he was in the process
of writing thank-you notes.

And, you know, putting--
Stuffing them in envelopes and that.

And he had a box of stationery items
on the table that was handy.

He says, "Why don't you stamp
some of those envelopes for me?"

So I did that.

He never said that to me. He never said that
to any law enforcement that I know of.

And I'm wondering if there's a possibility
he's trying to cover up...

...if his DNA shows up
on any of these stamps.

Has anybody ever made any attempt
to do a DNA test on Cheney?

You know what, I don't think so.
I don't think so.

They've run fing-- We took fingerprints.

And we had handwriting exemplars
on them.

And neither one of those matched.

I met Don Cheney, I think,
two or maybe three times.

Once, a diving trip
over to the North Coast.

Another time,
he visited with Leigh in Monterey...

...when I was staying
at my mother's house.

And I really didn't get to know the guy.

He made me feel a little uneasy
and I couldn't tell you why.

Don Cheney is...

...in my opinion, one of these people--

He's an engineer
and he's intellectually honest.

He has a capacity...

...to stick with what he knows and I've
never known him to lie about anything or...

And he's still the same person
I knew in college.

-So you have no reason to doubt him?
-No.

No reason at all.

I'd like to tell you about...

...somebody a little different from this...

...this dark figure, this maniacal killer...

...that seems to come across
in at least a couple of--

In a book I was reading
just prior to coming down here.

He was a bright...

...interesting guy
with a good sense of humor.

My mother liked him. My wife liked him.
All my kids liked him.

But he was not only left-handed literally
but figuratively too.

He reminded me,
when he was younger at least...

...of the young man
in Catcher in the Rye.

He was a well-meaning...

...screwup.

He could find more ways...

...to mess up his life
than anybody I ever met.

Why did Arthur Leigh Allen
become prominent again in 1989?

Well, we had a couple of reasons.

Primary was that a guy named
Ralph Spinelli came forward.

And Ralph Spinelli-- I knew him well.

--he was about my age
and a small-time crook from Vallejo.

In 1967, '68, '69...

...I owned a couple of nightclubs
in Solano County, California.

One in Vallejo
and one in Fairfield, California.

And I owned a piece of one
in Anchorage, Alaska, and I owned--

I, you know, had-- I was busy.

And the one in Fairfield, California was--

It was a gold mine while it was-- Existed.

It was called The Crazy Horse Saloon.

Spinelli had various and sundry
other problems with law enforcement.

And he came forward. It was--

And he had been arrested
in '89 or '90...

...by San Jose Police Department and
Santa Clara Sheriff's Department...

...for doing armed robberies
of restaurants...

...up in the Santa Clara, San Jose area.

And was facing, I think,
nine charges of robbery.

And he, through his attorney,
indicated that he could help--

He could solve the Zodiac case.

I was also involved in criminal activity
at the time.

And was getting some unfavorable press.

And I'm not proud of that.
It's just-- I'm telling you the way it was.

One night at the Crazy Horse Saloon...

...I was in my office and I--

The guy on the door...

...got me on the intercom
into my office said:

"There's some guy out here
wants to see you."

"Yeah, what's he--?
Is he a cop?" you know.

"No, I don't think so,
he's just some guy."

I said, "Okay,
tell him I'll be there in a few minutes."

A few minutes later, I went out...

...and the guy on the door
pointed to the guy that wanted to see me.

I went over to him and I said,
"I'm Ralph Spinelli. You want to see me?"

He says, "Yeah, I'm Leigh Allen."

And I looked at him, you know,
just blank and--

"Help me out here, Leigh. Who are you?"

He reminded me
of the incident back in 1958.

And I had completely forgotten about it.

I mean, that was--
Just no longer existed in my mind.

But, okay, now what? You know.

"Well, can we talk? I wanna talk."

And so we stepped outside
into the parking lot.

And, you know...

...he expressed his gratitude...

...that we never filed charges against him
in 1958.

And how solid and stand up guys
he thought we were...

...you know, for not doing that.

And he understood
where we were coming from.

Those kinds of comments that I thought:

"Okay, this guy's off the wall."
I mean, what's up?

"Okay, Leigh, you know, I'm really
kind of busy. What is it that you want?"

Well, he-- Something to the effect--
And I can only paraphrase now.

But certainly the gist of the conversation
and this is what he had to say to me was:

"I can provide a service for your friends.

And then take the heat off of you guys."

"And what are you talking about?"

"Well, I could, you know--
There's things I could do...

...up to and including killing someone."

My initial reaction to that was
the police had sent him there...

...and that he was wired.

In my heart of hearts, I believe
Arthur Leigh Allen is too smart to do that.

Ralph Spinelli was too much of a punk.

And Arthur Leigh Allen would look at him
and think:

"But this guy is gonna burn me
down the road."

Leigh said he was gonna kill people
for money.

That he was gonna get a contract
and he was gonna do a murder.

He was in discussion with...

...a mafia-type guy...

...that might give him a contract.

I said, "Look...

...you know, you sound like
you're loony tunes to me.

I don't want anything
to do with you.

None of my friends
want anything to do with you.

Don't know you. And don't even know
if you're capable of such a thing.

And can't figure out why you're in here,
proposing this to me."

He said, "I'm Zodiac."

And he didn't say, "I'm the Zodiac."
He said, "I'm Zodiac.

I can kill these people
and I can kill people and take credit for it."

And I said,
"You must be absolutely insane."

And then he said, "I will prove...

...I'm telling you the truth. I'll kill someone
in San Francisco and you'll know it's me."

He mentioned something like that briefly.
About an Agatha Christie book...

...that had a plan in it.
He didn't mention it by name.

Later I read the book and I recognized...

...Leigh's modus operandi
in that little book.

And it was the A.B.C. Murders.

It was-- Do some random killings...

...and place your contract killing
in with them.

So that it looked like
it was one of the random killings.

After Paul Stine,
he came to see me again...

...with, you know, "I told you.

You believe me now?"

And my response was,
"I do believe you now.

And now you better really
get away from me."

And I let it go and that was it.

Don Fouke is one of the
two officers that were...

...near the scene
of the Paul Stine killing...

...I showed him the photo lineup
and ultimately, the picture of--

He wasn't able to identify
Arthur Leigh Allen.

I went to Vallejo Police Department.

Mr. Bawart put out a photo spread.

And he gave me the impression...

...that Leigh Allen was the person
that he thought was the Zodiac.

This person outweighed...

...the person that I saw that night
by about a hundred pounds...

...I would estimate. Just an estimate.
Which took him out.

His face, even though it's round,
was too round.

I don't recall him showing me
a photograph...

...of a profile that he says he did...

...of Arthur Allen.

But Zodiac had a widow's peak.

Hair coming in the center more...

...and receding
on both sides of the forehead.

I don't know if that's the proper term for it.
But that's what my parents used to call it.

That was my impression at the time...

...is that it was not Leigh Allen.

I was never approached about
listening to Arthur Allen's voice.

Leigh Allen didn't sound like him.

It does strike me that all of the
so-called evidences against Leigh...

...seemed to be sort of
statistical in nature.

That if you took a million-odd people...

...and said, "Well, let's go looking around
and find someone who wears...

...an odd Zodiac watch, who is also--

Spends a lot of time around the water..."

And you keep layering these,
you know, you're making a Venn diagram.

And you got a whole bunch of circles.

And pretty soon you find that there is a guy
in the middle of all those circles.

That doesn't constitute evidence.

Beyond the accusation...

...there's nothing but--
There's nothing of any substance.

We have to recognize
that you look at enough people...

...and you're gonna see all sorts
of weird connections that develop.

He didn't help things,
because he played with the investigators.

And seemed to kind of enjoy
being under suspicion.

So he would throw out tidbits
that would fuel the fire.

It's very important--

And I think this is something that's been
forgotten about in the Zodiac case.

It's very important to let the evidence
drive the suspects...

...not the suspects drive the evidence.

What I mean by that is
we evaluate our suspects...

...by our known, reliable,
physical evidence.

We don't then--
We don't look at a good suspect...

...that we think, you know,
we have a personal interest in...

...or a particular theory
that we favored...

...and then start to reinterpret
the physical evidence.

That's not how you do a case.

That's gotten a lot of people into trouble
in the whole Jack the Ripper case.

One of the most famous
unsolved serial-murder investigations.

We tend to see now books with very...

Titles filled with hubris about how, you
know, they've solved the case, et cetera.

But actual fact...

...they tend to be more textbooks for
how not to do a criminal investigation.

It's important for any analyst
or investigator or profiler detective...

...or anyone
who is seeking to determine the truth--

And let's throw in
judges and scientists here too.

--is to come with it
as unbiased as possible.

Look through all the facts in the data...

...and make the best determination
at the end of the day.

But if we made
our determination beforehand...

...the psychological research
is very clear.

Try as we might, we become locked
into circular patterns of thinking.

And we keep returning
to what we want to think...

...rather than what the evidence suggests
that we should think.

In cases where you have people
coming forward that know a suspect...

...and they are validating
the suspicion of that person...

...it further complicates the case.

It further complicates our efforts...

...to either include or exclude that person
as the responsible person.

And what we've seen over and over again
is when we get this suspect...

...that is almost but not quite right...

...we have a very difficult time typically
excluding them from the investigation.

So if we're gonna evaluate
someone like Arthur Leigh Allen...

...we have to consider all the ways
he doesn't match the profile of the Zodiac...

...or the evidence
pointing towards the Zodiac.

He's not the kind of person that I believe
that committed these kinds of crimes.

He's wrong for several reasons.

The Zodiac, I believe,
was a heterosexual male...

...who is attracted
to age-appropriate women.

And Mr. Allen, as my understanding was,
preferred children...

...which would exclude him again
as the perpetrator of these crimes.

I think it's also important
that Mr. Allen displayed sadistic...

...tendencies.

And the Zodiac displayed
no sadistic tendencies in these crimes.

These crimes were committed
very quickly.

And I think that that is
extremely important distinction...

...between Mr. Allen and the Zodiac.

One of the things
we knew we had to do down the road...

...was show Mike Mageau the photo lineup
that I'd showed all these other people.

To our knowledge, he had never seen a
photo lineup with Arthur Leigh Allen in it.

I just thought it was
gonna be...and I'd be on the way.

And so I had this photo lineup with me...

...and I chatted with him briefly,
"How you doing? What's going on?"

I gave him what they called
the lineup admonishment.

Admonishment is that, "I'm gonna show
you a group of photographs.

The responsible that shot you
on July 4th, 1969...

...may or may not be
amongst these group of photos.

I'm showing you pictures,
you don't have to pick somebody out."

He said he understand-- Understood.

I gave him the set of pictures,
he looked at it for about 20 seconds.

And he said,
pointed to Arthur Leigh Allen, said:

"That's him.
That's the man that shot me."

I was flabbergasted.

I knew we'd have to re-interview him
some more.

Setting up a time when he could
come to Vallejo and which was done.

We flew him up
and had a more in-depth interview up there.

And so with that,
I was able to write a search warrant...

...that was ultimately signed by a judge.

And we searched the house
and we found, hidden in the basement...

...bombs, completed pipe bombs.

The formulas for making fuel oil bombs...

...as the Zodiac had described
in one of his letters...

...where he was gonna blow up
school buses with little children in them.

The same type of bombs,
the formulas for making that stuff.

He said that he had been visited
by someone...

...an acquaintance, I think from Atascadero
but I'm not sure.

And that that person must have left
these bomb-makings there.

And that that was apparently
some sort of a link to the Zodiac killer.

We were gonna charge him
with possession of the explosives...

...and the killing at Blue Rock Springs.

We actually had a meeting set up
to go to the district attorney's office.

And about a week before the meeting...

...I got a call from a police officer
named Terry Baron.

I was at home and he asked me
if was still looking at Arthur Leigh Allen...

...as responsible in the killing
at Blue Rock Springs of Darlene Ferrin.

I said, "Yeah."

And being kind of a smart aleck,
the police officer said to me:

"Well, I'm standing in his house
and he's laying on the floor."

I said, "What do you mean?"
He said, "He's on the floor but he's dead."

They weren't gonna even have an autopsy,
because he was under a doctor's care.

I insisted and they did do an autopsy
and he died of a heart attack.

And that, during that autopsy,
is when they were directed by me...

...to take tissue samples
for DNA down the road.

Because I could foresee DNA
becoming prevalent in this case.

And that's why
you have DNA to this day.

They actually got the brain fluid,
you know, from Arthur Leigh Allen.

They did a test and it's a match.

These guys were jumping up and down.
They're really happy.

So while we're sitting there,
their cell phones ring.

And they'd rerun it.
And it wasn't a match.

But I'll tell you for about a minute there,
I loved DNA.

I thought this was absolutely great.

And you never saw
two more crestfallen guys.

I mean, they had really been work--

They all-- I mean, there are guys
in Santa Rosa...

...who are convinced
Arthur Leigh Allen was the Zodiac.

There-- I mean, certainly Bawart
and Conway and Toschi and myself.

Morrill, except he couldn't get
the handwriting to match...

...he certainly thought
that it was a great poss--

But some really great detectives.
And I don't think they're all wrong.

He was my friend.

I miss him.

And I think he was unjustly accused.

But I'm not absolutely certain.

Let's just say it's nobody we ever heard of.
It's some lout in a cabin somewhere.

He's still catchable. It's still solvable.
There's still justice that's out there.

This is a chance
to write the perfect ending.

And it's still possible.