Original subtitles

The following programme contains strong language.

(BIRDSONG)

DENCH: Did you say action? WOMAN: Yeah.

Oh, right. (CHUCKLES) MAN: Action.

Oh, right. (CHUCKLES) MAN: Action.

Now here is a picture of Ken,

as you can see,

as you can see,

that was painted by Alex Newley that I bought, ooh,

quite a while ago.

I don't know that he knows I've got it, but I'm very pleased I have.

I don't know that he knows I've got it, but I'm very pleased I have.

I'm still going to hide it from him...

(PLAYFUL STRING MUSIC)

(PLAYFUL STRING MUSIC)

Shall I put it...?

Supposing I put it there. There we are.

Supposing I put it there. There we are.

There's a surprise for later.

Where is she?

'Ken Branagh and I have known each other for over 40 years.'

'Ken Branagh and I have known each other for over 40 years.'

Judi, you've worked with Ken, is it...

Oh, so many times. It's not worth going into.

(LAUGHTER)

(LAUGHTER)

'In that time I've played his dutiful wife,

his doting mother...'

You shouldn't have stayed down there so long, my poor boy.

You shouldn't have stayed down there so long, my poor boy.

'..and even his soft-hearted grandmother.'

Get yourself a wee sweety.

(CHUCKLES) Thanks, granny.

'Between us, we've spent over a century in this business.'

'Between us, we've spent over a century in this business.'

Sweetie, I've only just started!

I'll tell you something, Fletcher,

I'll tell you something, Fletcher,

if you ever do anything like that to my sister, I'll kill you.

'And today, I'm delighted to welcome him to tea

and a friendly chat about all the times we've shared.'

and a friendly chat about all the times we've shared.'

I remember coming to give you notes somewhere.

Yes, you said, "Kenny. Kenny! Kenny! Stand up.

Yes, you said, "Kenny. Kenny! Kenny! Stand up.

You've gone very, very West End.

It's all out front. Laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh."

In The Merchant of Venice I said to him,

In The Merchant of Venice I said to him,

"But tis to peise the time, to eke it and to draw it out in length.

To stay you from erection." (LAUGHS)

To stay you from erection." (LAUGHS)

'Election...' As you know, it's 'election'.

What is it about Shakespeare that means that we continue...

(DULL THUDDING) ..to want to tell stories? There you go.

(DULL THUDDING) ..to want to tell stories? There you go.

Beating of your heart.

Ohh, dear. Hello.

Well, about bloody time. (BOTH LAUGH)

Well, about bloody time. (BOTH LAUGH)

(YORKSHIRE ACCENT) Your father and I have been worried stiff about you.

I'm looking for Judi Dench.

International star of stage and screen. (CHUCKLES)

International star of stage and screen. (CHUCKLES)

Where have you been?

I've been gathering flowers for you. Gathering flowers.

I wish they smelt a bit more, but they look as nice,

I wish they smelt a bit more, but they look as nice,

but not as nice as you. Not necessary.

Well, not necessary, but, but I wanted you to have them.

Come in. 007?

Yes. I've been expecting you, Mr. Bond.

Yes. I've been expecting you, Mr. Bond.

That's a very nice entrance if you happen to have played James Bond.

Now, please, Kenny, watch. Yes.

You have to contend, I'm afraid, with the parrot.

You have to contend, I'm afraid, with the parrot.

Oh, the parrot. Oh, my God, it's the... Is it a talking parrot?

Yes... (PARROT CHIRPS)

Darling, you're very good. (WHISTLES SWEETLY)

Darling, you're very good. (WHISTLES SWEETLY)

You are such a good bird...

(GRUFF, COCKNEY ACCENT) ..Sweetheart. That's her name. (CHUCKLES)

(GRUFF, COCKNEY ACCENT) ..Sweetheart. That's her name. (CHUCKLES)

When sweetheart is in full voice, what are the kind of things

she tends to say? She says, um...

(GRUFF, COCKNEY ACCENT) ..you're a slag.(LAUGHS)

(GRUFF, COCKNEY ACCENT) ..you're a slag.(LAUGHS)

(WHISTLES IN FALSETTO)

Gosh, what's coming out of this bag?

Gosh, what's coming out of this bag?

What's coming out of this bag?

If you knew the answer to that... Have a feel of those.

Just those, not me. What... (CHUCKLES)

OK. Oh, hello. Potato cakes?

OK. Oh, hello. Potato cakes?

Well, we call them potato farls, you call it potato cakes.

Or, as we would say, in the accent of my homeland,

Or, as we would say, in the accent of my homeland,

tattie farl.Tattie farl. (CHUCKLES)Tattie farl.

(ECHOING VOCALS)

Do you want me to put some butter on that for you, or would you like

to help yourself? I'm going to...

You're just gonna... It's my butter, isn't it?

It's your butter. It's your house. So you can be as filthy as you like.

It's your butter. It's your house. So you can be as filthy as you like.

(BOTH LAUGH) Do you remember when we first met?

Was it on Ghosts? It was on television for the BBC.

Was it on Ghosts? It was on television for the BBC.

If you have a mother's love for me...

If you have a mother's love for me...

how can you see me suffer like this?

I have a very, very clear image of you coming through the doors

I have a very, very clear image of you coming through the doors

at the North Acton Rehearsal Studios.

Looking very chic. Very chic.

I remember a bit of a suede... suede skirt.

Quite long, sort of, boots. A bit foxy, as I recall.

Quite long, sort of, boots. A bit foxy, as I recall.

You can tell how long ago. (CHUCKLES)

This is before...

This is before, of course, we had the difficulty of working

This is before, of course, we had the difficulty of working

with the late, great, wonderful Michael Gambon.

Anyway, welcome. Welcome, my dear Oswald.

Anyway, welcome. Welcome, my dear Oswald.

I trust you'll allow me to call you by your Christian name.

What else?

Yes, Gambon notorious for making you laugh at the wrong time.

Yes, Gambon notorious for making you laugh at the wrong time.

He was an absolute bloody nightmare.

And the late, great Natasha Richardson.

Well, madam, if you will allow me, I think I'd better leave at once.

Elijah Moshinsky said... Lovely director, he said...

Elijah Moshinsky said... Lovely director, he said...

I want a very, very, very tense shot of all of you.

Very tense.All round the table.

Very tense.All round the table.

(TENSE MUSIC)

All round there with the... with the plates.

And a... And Natasha.

Very sombre Natasha coming round. I'm here. You're there.

Very sombre Natasha coming round. I'm here. You're there.

Gambon's over there.

(CHUCKLES) And then Natasha comes round.

(CHUCKLES) And then Natasha comes round.

She just goes... (WHISPERS) "..Would you like some potatoes?"

And Michael Gambon said, "Just the usual eight."

And Michael Gambon said, "Just the usual eight."

(CHUCKLES) I heard ten, I heard, "I'll just have ten."

And then of course, Natasha went like that,

And then of course, Natasha went like that,

and then she spilt potatoes onto my plate.

And then, of course, it was no good.

So then I thought that I was converting this into acting.

So I went down into myself, if you will.

So I went down into myself, if you will.

But in fact, that was just... Because the camera kept passing.

Then we heard a voice, didn't we? Saying, "Mr. Branagh,

Then we heard a voice, didn't we? Saying, "Mr. Branagh,

Miss Dench, you may leave the studio."

Yes. And don't come back. We were... And we were sent away.

Yes. And don't come back. We were... And we were sent away.

We were sent away. Didn't work for the rest of the day.

Very, very disappointing, we were. We hadn't just let the play down.

We'd let the whole school down. We had.

We'd let the whole school down. We had.

Did it ever appear, Ghosts? It did. It did.

Did it? It did. Yeah, it did.

I shall be patient and undemanding. And cheerful, mother!

I shall be patient and undemanding. And cheerful, mother!

Yes, my boy. I think the audience was

as miserable as we were. What, uh...What was your first job?

as miserable as we were. What, uh...What was your first job?

First ever? Yeah.

Ophelia at the Old Vic

in 1957, opposite John Neville.

in 1957, opposite John Neville.

It must have been a big deal to get that job back then, wasn't it?

Pfft. Well, can you imagine what kind of...

Pfft. Well, can you imagine what kind of...

You know, I was in a kind of haze.

We opened at the Liverpool Playhouse.

We opened at the Liverpool Playhouse.

Playhouse? Liverpool Playhouse for one week.

Well, it didn't go well.

I mean, they didn't like somebody completely unknown playing the part.

I mean, they didn't like somebody completely unknown playing the part.

What a baptism of fire for you.

What did that make you feel about?

Did you read those rotten notices, or did you ignore them?

Or you heard about them? What was, what did what was that like?

Or you heard about them? What was, what did what was that like?

I don't think I read them. Yeah, but you were aware that it was...

It hadn't perhaps gone as. A bit do...bit dodgy.

Bit dodgy? Yes.

Bit dodgy? Yes.

But then Michael Benthall said to me,

pulled me into his office and he said, "Don't be made sad

or depressed by this", because

or depressed by this", because

he said, "I'm going to keep you on in the company."

And he said, "You're going to play lots of other small parts

and watch the other actors."

and watch the other actors."

And that's what I did. Well, good on him.

What about you and critics, though?

Uh, well, you know, once had some, some...

Well, I suppose if you do it for long enough, you have a whole

Well, I suppose if you do it for long enough, you have a whole

range of them, don't you? In Henry the Fifth,

one of my brilliant touches, of course, was that I would, uh...

produce an accent, uh, to disguise myself as the king...Yes.

produce an accent, uh, to disguise myself as the king...Yes.

..as I go amongst my men in disguise the night before the battle.

A little touch of Harry in the night.

And I thought so I shall do my brilliant Welsh accent,

And I thought so I shall do my brilliant Welsh accent,

because he's Prince of Wales. Of course, that's going to work very well.

And I remember that getting a review in the days when I read them,

saying Mr. Branagh,

saying Mr. Branagh,

who is vocally inadequate in the role, lacking in magnitude.

However, in the nighttime scene,

However, in the nighttime scene,

where I'd done my amazing Welsh accent,

however, in the nighttime scene, he is effortlessly a Geordie.

Thank you very much. And you can shove your accent...

And I bet you know who that was. ..where the sun doesn't shine.

I'm not...I-I couldn't possibly say, but obviously I question,

I'm not...I-I couldn't possibly say, but obviously I question,

I question their judgement, Judi. (CHUCKLES)

And but it is true to say I think I travelled from Milford Haven

And but it is true to say I think I travelled from Milford Haven

and Pontypool via Gateshead,

back to, back to Northern Ireland.

'Before we became hardened to the slings and arrows

of outrageous reviews,

of outrageous reviews,

like many, Kenny and I both started our acting careers

by going to drama school.'

Do you remember what it was like leaving home, the moment when

you were gone from York, and now you were in London?

Did you ever look back or look sideways, or did you...?

I think I must have done. Mm-hm.

All those days are kind of...

merged together in a way. Three years of it.

merged together in a way. Three years of it.

Mm-hm. For me, it was the Friday I went to RADA for the sort of

induction afternoon, and then I came...

Were you living in Belfast? No, I was over from Belfast.

Were you living in Belfast? No, I was over from Belfast.

I was in Reading and I went home.

And, you know, we all variously didn't know really how to cope

with this thing that suddenly graphically became,

with this thing that suddenly graphically became,

this is the moment you're leaving home

to go out into the big wide world,

which was, for them, terrifying, acting.

They didn't know anything about the acting business or anything.

They didn't know anything about the acting business or anything.

It just was just a world where I would return to them as

a homosexual who was out of work, and this would be perfectly fine

a homosexual who was out of work, and this would be perfectly fine

but it would not be something that they could help me with, you know.

But it seemed guaranteed.

Um, and so they didn't say much, but I remember I'd come back.

Um, and so they didn't say much, but I remember I'd come back.

So we had the afternoon. We said, this is what you'll do.

You need these tights. We'd turn up on Monday. So I knew I was leaving the next day to go.

And there was this little envelope which I remember which had,

And there was this little envelope which I remember which had,

it was on the telephone table...

it was on the telephone table...

and, um, I... They didn't say anything about it,

but it was a it was a card

which said, um, just simply,

which said, um, just simply,

and it was one of those ones like totally embossed

sort of Woolworths card.

So it was like a bloody duvet on a bed.

So it was like a bloody duvet on a bed.

And it just inside it just said, "We're very proud of you.

Love Mum and Dad." There was £100 in it,

Love Mum and Dad." There was £100 in it,

£100 for them, that was a lot. That's a lot.

1979. That was a lot of money.

So you knew that that was huge.

And then I just remember also, uh, I got driven down to the station

And then I just remember also, uh, I got driven down to the station

and I just remember that moment of them waving and waving on the step,

and I just remember that moment of them waving and waving on the step,

because the way the house was, you could see them for a long time.

And they never, never, never stopped waving.

And they never, never, never stopped waving.

Oh, it's a lovely memory.

'After RADA, it wasn't long before Ken was taking on

'After RADA, it wasn't long before Ken was taking on

major Shakespearean roles.'

"We fat all creatures to fat us, and we fat ourselves for maggots.

"We fat all creatures to fat us, and we fat ourselves for maggots.

"Your fat king and your lean beggar is but variable service."

'Then, as leading actor and director, he switched to the screen,

'Then, as leading actor and director, he switched to the screen,

successfully bringing a wider audience to the plays

Much Ado About Nothing,

Henry V...'

Henry V...'

Action. '..and Hamlet.'

"And can you by no drift of competence get from him..."

BRANNAGH: Hamlet soaks up everything you might know about making films,

BRANNAGH: Hamlet soaks up everything you might know about making films,

or about acting and about life.

"To be or not to be,

"To be or not to be,

That is the question."

'The last time I appeared on stage with him was at

the Garrick Theatre in 2015,

the Garrick Theatre in 2015,

where I played Paulina to his jealous king Leontes in The Winter's Tale.'

I have drunk and seen the spider.

I have drunk and seen the spider.

Camillo was his help in this. His pander.

There is a plot against my life. My crown. All's true.

There is a plot against my life. My crown. All's true.

I've got a great surprise for you.

This is usually in my bedroom.

Oh, blimey.

It's you as Leontes in The Winter's Tale.

Blimey! Did you ever see it?

I blooming well... I've never seen this. Wow.

I blooming well... I've never seen this. Wow.

I think it's terrific. Wow.

It's only in my bedroom, Ken.

It's only in my bedroom, Ken.

That's slightly unnerving, but...

I think it's wonderful. Very good, very good.

It's a good surprise, isn't it. Gosh, it brings back such a lot of memories.

It's a good surprise, isn't it. Gosh, it brings back such a lot of memories.

What studied torments tyrant has for me,

what wheels, racks, fires?

what wheels, racks, fires?

What flaying and boiling in leads and oils?

'The production was very well received,

except that I do remember one rather embarrassing moment

except that I do remember one rather embarrassing moment

in the wings, when I had what people

I believe nowadays call a wardrobe malfunction.'

Such a lot of memories of standing in the snow, waiting for you

Such a lot of memories of standing in the snow, waiting for you

to come on and hoping that you'd remember to put your skirt on.

(CHUCKLES)Which obviously didn't happen every time.

But that's just a choice, Judi. It's a choice. Um...

But that's just a choice, Judi. It's a choice. Um...

How brilliant to see that. Isn't it lovely?

Yeah. That's fantastic. Beautiful, isn't it.

I'm very honoured to be in the place you mentioned.

I'm very honoured to be in the place you mentioned.

That's probably as much as I need to know, um, at this time.

Let me...Let me put it back there for you.

Let me...Let me put it back there for you.

'Apart from regular returns to the theatre,

for the last 25 years, Ken has mostly concentrated on film.'

for the last 25 years, Ken has mostly concentrated on film.'

(PHOTOGRAPHERS CLAMOUR) JOURNALIST: What was your favourite moment?

Uh, favourite moment was having a duel with Alan Rickman

Uh, favourite moment was having a duel with Alan Rickman

with my wand coming off the worse for it, but enjoying it.

'In that time, he's been celebrated

'In that time, he's been celebrated

as a director of Hollywood blockbusters,

successfully bringing his sharp storytelling eye

successfully bringing his sharp storytelling eye

to the superhero movie.

Most recently, he won a Best Screenwriting Oscar

Most recently, he won a Best Screenwriting Oscar

for a film he also directed... The autobiographical, Belfast.'

(CLAMOURING)

(CLAMOURING)

'It's 1969, the eve

of what became known as The Troubles.

And I play the grandmother of Buddy,

And I play the grandmother of Buddy,

who is about to be uprooted from his hometown

to the unknown world of England,

something that Ken himself experienced as a young boy.'

something that Ken himself experienced as a young boy.'

I was a great one for the pictures when I was your age.

I used to think you could climb right inside the screen

and visit all those strange places you saw,

like that one in that film. What was that? Uh...

like that one in that film. What was that? Uh...

Lost Horizons. Did you ever see that?

No. What was the name of the place granny?

Shangri-La. That's what they called it.

(SIGHS)

God, it's a difficult accent. (LAUGHS)

God, it's a difficult accent. (LAUGHS)

How do you like doing accents?

Because you've done some wonderful accents. And, of course, you-

Irish? Well. Excuse me, though, I had a hard time, if you remember.

Irish? Well. Excuse me, though, I had a hard time, if you remember.

Yes, yes. Because Irish is fine.

Because of my ma and pa and everybody...

Because of my ma and pa and everybody...

and everybody in Dublin, but not the North.

I guess it's got a harder R in it, hasn't it?

I guess it's got a harder R in it, hasn't it?

It can have that sort of domineering thing

and kind of the cadence of it

can get you caught up sometimes in a certain way of doing it.

Whereas down south they're all up and down and around.

Whereas down south they're all up and down and around.

I mean, I'm being very generalised, but they've got all, you know,

they paint with lots of different colours and there can be something.

How... By the way, how... I can't remember what we did.

I guess we tried to help you with it. Did you listen to people?

Did you talk to people? I think I had somebody help me.

Yeah.Oh, yes, I had... I did some work here.

Yeah.Oh, yes, I had... I did some work here.

Not enough, I think. When I saw it, I thought, "Oh no."

Especially the last line.

Especially the last line.

Go. (BUS ENGINE RUMBLES)

Go now.

Don't look back.

If you recall, we're in an enormous close up of you,

so not too much moving around required.

I love you, son. (NOSTALGIC MUSIC)

I love you, son. (NOSTALGIC MUSIC)

That's what I admire about the way you've arrived at your sort of

skill on camera,

is that you were able to hear direction, as we're going,

is that you were able to hear direction, as we're going,

camera still turning. You kept hearing me give notes about,

"Slow down this. Oh, say that line again.

Oh, do this." Incredible patience.

Oh, do this." Incredible patience.

It was a fascinating thing to direct a young Jude Hill as Buddy.

It was a fascinating thing to direct a young Jude Hill as Buddy.

Because someone like Jude, at nine years old,

the minute you do something different, he's onto it.

the minute you do something different, he's onto it.

If you repeat yourself, you have to be very alive with children.

You have to... In acting.

Listen, I don't have kids, so I don't know.

Listen, I don't have kids, so I don't know.

But in terms of keeping them alive in the scene,

you have to be entirely present.

Otherwise, they know you've gone to lunch, and they'll...

go to lunch as well, as it were.

go to lunch as well, as it were.

But I am a person! That's the point.(CHUCKLES)

'One of the most moving scenes in the film

'One of the most moving scenes in the film

is when young Buddy visits his grandfather.

The prospect of leaving everything he knows drawing closer.'

The prospect of leaving everything he knows drawing closer.'

You know who you are, don't you?

Yes, pop.

You're Buddy from Belfast, 15.

Where everybody knows you, and your pop looks out for you.

And your mammy looks out for you, your daddy looks out for you.

And your mammy looks out for you, your daddy looks out for you.

Your granny looks out for you, your brother looks out for you,

the whole family looks out for you.

And wherever you go and whatever you become,

And wherever you go and whatever you become,

that'll always be the truth. Can you remember that for me?

Yes, pop.

Yes, pop.

Aye. Fine man you are.

It was interesting to stay close with them.

And then for a moment, that's almost too much,

And then for a moment, that's almost too much,

and for a moment that's almost sort of overwhelming for the pair of them

particularly for the grandfather, a man who comes from a culture

where men don't share their feelings,

where men don't share their feelings,

men don't share their emotions.

But how could you not with a kid who's talking about a farewell.

Aye. Forget about what your father and your mother want.

Aye. Forget about what your father and your mother want.

What do you want?

I want you and granny to come too.

I want you and granny to come too.

I had the instinct when we shot it to then just move away from them

and be outside and let them have their kind of moment,

and be outside and let them have their kind of moment,

because it's almost too... too private and too...too delicate.

And trying to direct that film was almost trying to be like

And trying to direct that film was almost trying to be like

another role, another character who was being as sensitive

as you could be to their situation, which is any family's situation

as you could be to their situation, which is any family's situation

when they're dealing with change. It was personally yours.Yes.

So, it was also, one had to be respectful to my parents

So, it was also, one had to be respectful to my parents

and my grandparents and to people they knew.

It wasn't a literal version of their lives, but it was something

that one was trying to be honest and open about.

that one was trying to be honest and open about.

But it's very, very, very, very delicate

just the way human relationships are.

And so it was uh...it was quite the lesson. As it was—

And so it was uh...it was quite the lesson. As it was—

What was their reaction to it?, Your family

Well, of course, my mama and papa were gathered.

God knows what they would have thought it just um...

God knows what they would have thought it just um...

But my family, my dear brother and my dear sister were, I think,

chuffed to bits. And we all saw it together

in Belfast on a Thursday night in November,

in Belfast on a Thursday night in November,

which absolutely... with a lot of family there.

And that was a big, big, big, big... (INHALES SHARPLY)

And that was a big, big, big, big... (INHALES SHARPLY)

I bet. A big thing, a big thing.

(SOFT MUSIC) (BIRDSONG)

'After leaving Belfast, Ken's family moved to Reading.

Not exactly Shangri-La,

but a journey of discovery nonetheless.'

but a journey of discovery nonetheless.'

This is a recording that I...

This is a recording that I...

I have to say I slightly thieved

from the English stock room at my school, Medway Comprehensive.

from the English stock room at my school, Medway Comprehensive.

It wasn't being used and it is Sir John Gielgud's The Ages...

Of Man?Yeah. I saw that.

Did you see it? Oh, yes.

Did you see it? Oh, yes.

'Sir John Gielgud's celebrated Ages of Man

was a tour de force through the great Shakespearian speeches.

was a tour de force through the great Shakespearian speeches.

(RECORD CRACKLES) 'Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?

Thou art more lovely and more temperate.

Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May...'

'Gielgud was one of the most renowned classical actors

of his generation...'

of his generation...'

Where were your gibes now? Your gambols, your songs,

your flashes of merriment...

'..and was a huge influence on me and Ken.'

'..and was a huge influence on me and Ken.'

But one now to mock your own grinning.

Quite chop fallen.

When I was at drama school, I remember my principal,

When I was at drama school, I remember my principal,

Hugh Cruttwell, had him come to see me do a bit of Hamlet.

And without telling me, he said, "I've got somebody I wanted

And without telling me, he said, "I've got somebody I wanted

to look at the speech for you, might have a few tips or whatever."

And into the room walked Sir John Gielgud,

universally acknowledged as the Hamlet of the century.

universally acknowledged as the Hamlet of the century.

I'm 19 years old. (SLURS) I could barely speak.

The idea that I could then do the Hamlet...

The idea that I could then do the Hamlet...

And then I saw, when I finished doing the speech.

So I managed to get through it and you could tell his eyes were moist

because he was just seeing this kid.

because he was just seeing this kid.

He was seeing this kid, an 18, 19-year-old, doing this thing.

He said, "Oh, no, that was very good.

You're pushing a little hard on that.

You're pushing a little hard on that.

The real climax is bloody bawdy villain, and that's nice,

but then put the lid on it for the rest of it,

and I think you'll do rather well."

Oh, Fanny, I've got something in my right eye.

Oh, Fanny, I've got something in my right eye.

I can't see properly.

'I worked with him in The Cherry Orchard.'

You're not my niece. You're my guardian angel.

You're not my niece. You're my guardian angel.

'Directed by Michel Saint-Denis.'

And a little while ago I began making that ridiculous speech

And a little while ago I began making that ridiculous speech

about the bookcase. So stupid of me.

If only you didn't talk, you'd be so much happier.

DENCH: (OS) Sir John was playing Gaev,

DENCH: (OS) Sir John was playing Gaev,

I was playing Anna, and we did a run through,

and we all had to come on stage for notes.

And we sat there and, um...

And we sat there and, um...

and, uh, Michel said,

"Peggy..." That's Peggy Ashcroft.

"Peggy...what can I say?" (CHUCKLES)

"Peggy...what can I say?" (CHUCKLES)

"Dorothy..." Dororthy Tutin.

"Dorothy..." Dororthy Tutin.

Dorothy, you were a marvel.

(GIGGLES) "Judi...

(LAUGHS RAUCOUSLY) "John, you..."

It's true.

And after... (CHUCKLES)

And after the notes, he said... he said to me.

And after the notes, he said... he said to me.

(AS SIR JOHN) "Well, if you'd been doing that for me, I'd be delighted.

Aww. So, then I was...

Johnny G. He gets... He gets a big tick in our book.

You are so good and clever. Ah, ha, ha.

I feel so much better now. Mm.Calmer and happier.

I feel so much better now. Mm.Calmer and happier.

Weren't we in the film of... You came in to Hamlet.

Yes, yes, yes. Sir John came and was old Priam.

Yes, yes, yes. Sir John came and was old Priam.

He was Priam. He was old Priam. Yeah.

...His antique sword, rebellious to his arm, lies where it falls.

...His antique sword, rebellious to his arm, lies where it falls.

Repugnant.

You play Hecuba.

Yes. That's right. A lot of headscarf acting.

Yes. That's right. A lot of headscarf acting.

Was it headscarf acting? But you made it more than that.

You made it much more than that.

FIRST PLAYER: Her husband's limbs.

The instant burst of clamour that she made...

The instant burst of clamour that she made...

DENCH: (OS) No lines. BRANNAGH: (OS) And no lines. Lots of wailing, though. You looked sad.

You look put out anyway. You look very put out.

'Ken, of course, has directed me many times.

'Ken, of course, has directed me many times.

But what people may not know is that I have also directed him.'

Are we ready?Yeah. Come on, let's get a move on...

Are we ready?Yeah. Come on, let's get a move on...

'Once in John Osborne's Look Back in Anger...'

Sounds like some fleshy Roman matron, doesn't it?

Sounds like some fleshy Roman matron, doesn't it?

The lady Pusillanimous...

Do you want me to carry on? Keep going.

'And before that, in Much Ado About Nothing

'And before that, in Much Ado About Nothing

at the Queen's Theatre.'

Against my will, I am sent to bid you come in to dinner.

There's a double meaning in that.

There's a double meaning in that.

Anyway... (LAUGHS)

That's rubbish. That's rubbish.

It pains, I think. (MUMBLES)

You mustn't say "There's a double meaning in that" so quickly.

You mustn't say "There's a double meaning in that" so quickly.

Right. Yeah. Well, literally say, or leave more of a pause?

Well, no, no, just leave the pause. But you say... (QUICKLY) ..There's a double meaning in there.

Well, no, no, just leave the pause. But you say... (QUICKLY) ..There's a double meaning in there.

You just don't hear it. Leave the pause because you everyone goes...

Yeah.There's a double meaning in that. I mean...

Yeah.There's a double meaning in that. I mean...

Right... ..storm them.

I remember coming to give you notes somewhere.Yes.

Coming to see it, and you leaving. Well...I think you left.

Coming to see it, and you leaving. Well...I think you left.

There was one time, but I... but I also remember you coming round

to see me after the first preview.

to see me after the first preview.

And I said, "Well, how did it go, Judi?"

You said, "It was like watching a slow motion pileup on a motorway."

"Not good then?" I said. "Not so good, no.

"Not good then?" I said. "Not so good, no.

"No, you missed everything." No, I never...

You make it up as you go along.

You make it up as you go along.

(BOTH LAUGH) I never said that.

I know you were... What was sweet was you were occasionally...

you were pretty cross with us at various times, but you mostly didn't show it.

Well, because you wanted it to be good.

Well, because you wanted it to be good.

You used to tell me... In fact, you came in...

I know you gave me a hard time- I don't think I corrected you at all.

No, you came in when we were in Brighton.

No, you came in when we were in Brighton.

We were on tour in Brighton. And you said "Kenny. Kenny. Kenny!

Stand up, stand up! Kenny! Kenny!" (CHUCKLES)

Stand up, stand up! Kenny! Kenny!" (CHUCKLES)

"You've gone very, very West End." I said. "What do you mean?"

"You're not looking at anybody? It's all out front.

It's all out front. It's laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh."

It's all out front. It's laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh."

And I took those words and stamped, they're branded on my conscience.

Not true. So anytime I...

Not true. So anytime I...

anytime I feel like I'm using bad taste,

I think of Judi Dench saying,

"Kenny, you've gone very, very West End."

With, I hasten to add, you did it with a little bit of a waggy finger.

With, I hasten to add, you did it with a little bit of a waggy finger.

So it was, it was... Well, that was me acting a director.

Why did you decide you fancied directing a bit?

Why did you decide you fancied directing a bit?

I didn't. You persuaded me. But you also did...

I didn't want to do it. You made me. Well... (CHUCKLES)

For the money. For the... Of course.

For the money. For the... Of course.

And that's you all over, I must say.

Do you have any...? I'm sure you have plenty of pieces of advice

that a director might have given you that you think,

that a director might have given you that you think,

"Ohh, that's a useful one?"

Less is more. That's all I know, Ken.Mm-hm.

Because when you, you know, you want to do everything...

Because when you, you know, you want to do everything...

I mean, I realise now that, of course, when Ophelia comes on

and says, when she's mad,

and says, when she's mad,

"Where is the beauteous majesty of Denmark?"...Majesty of Denmark.

I don't, you know, I was so mad.

I don't, you know, I was so mad.

I mean, I was a box of frogs running on.Yes.

All you'd have to do is to go up to the wrong person,

like anybody on stage,

like anybody on stage,

BUT the Queen and just say it to them, you know?

Then you'd know she wasn't too tightly wrapped.

Then you'd know she wasn't too tightly wrapped.

You don't have to, you know, less is always more, isn't it?

But you don't trust yourself to do that.

No. And you want... It's very tempting,

No. And you want... It's very tempting,

Or you feel as though it's required to tear a passion to tatters.

The whole story of my acting life has been trying to do less

and less and less. There will be plenty of people who disagree

and less and less. There will be plenty of people who disagree

whether I've managed to do it, but that's sort of scary, isn't it?

Yes.So it's rather vulnerable to be um...to be that way.

Yes.So it's rather vulnerable to be um...to be that way.

(SOFT MUSIC)

(WOLF WHISTLES)

(WOLF WHISTLES)

I was once in a scene with three actors,

and one of them said to me, rather like

this person doing nothing at the back here.

I said, "Oh, so we're going to do the scene in a minute.

I said, "Oh, so we're going to do the scene in a minute.

Are you going to do something or are you going to do nothing?

Because if you're doing something, I'm doing nothing.

Because if you're doing something, I'm doing nothing.

But if you are doing nothing, I'll do something." (CHUCKLES)

And at the moment, I would say the two of us are doing something

And at the moment, I would say the two of us are doing something

and this one's doing nothing, and everybody's looking at that one.

Watching her. Of course.The story of my life, the story of my life.

She's not a fool. Now that's a movie star.

Sweetheart. That's how you define a movie star.

Sweetheart. That's how you define a movie star.

(CHATTERS)

I want to ask you about this painting, Jude,

I want to ask you about this painting, Jude,

because it's such a fantastic likeness

of the brilliant Mr. Michael Williams.Mikey.

'Michael and I were married just short of 30 years

'Michael and I were married just short of 30 years

when he died in 2001.'

Look at that Ken.Yes. I mean, you knew him well.

Look at that Ken.Yes. I mean, you knew him well.

That's so, it's brilliantly painted.

Yes, I think-But there's something about his foot there.

And his... Oh, gosh.

And his... Oh, gosh.

His hands. I love it.

I really love it.

And you acted on stage a lot with Michael, didn't you?

And you acted on stage a lot with Michael, didn't you?

We did. Yeah? Was that easy? Simple?

Or was it times when you thought, "Oh, bloody hell,

I've got to go home to this guy? Yes.

I've got to go home to this guy? Yes.

Times where we had quite a tricky time.Yes.

He said in The Merchant of Venice,

Uh...We were... we were not long married.

Uh...We were... we were not long married.

We were at Stratford together, and he played Bassanio,

and I played Portia. And I said to him,

and I played Portia. And I said to him,

"I speak too long, but just to peise the time,

to eke it and to draw it out in length,

to stay you from erection." (LAUGHS)

to stay you from erection." (LAUGHS)

Which, election, you know, is the line.

Well, the wind band left the stage. They just walked off,

and Michael and I were left to face away from each other.

and Michael and I were left to face away from each other.

Contemplating what the audience made of his erection.

(INDISTINCT)

(INDISTINCT)

Which may or may not have been what Shakespeare meant.

I don't know, it seems to me it works perfectly well.

It's more fool him for using a word like that

that could be easily mispronounced.

that could be easily mispronounced.

I remember when we were making the film of Henry V, in which,

unusually, uh, Michael Williams played the role of Michael Williams.

unusually, uh, Michael Williams played the role of Michael Williams.

Michael Williams. He did.

And if the cause be not good,

the King himself hath a heavy reckoning to make.

the King himself hath a heavy reckoning to make.

And all those legs and arms and heads chopped off in a battle

shall join together at the latter day and cry all,

shall join together at the latter day and cry all,

"We died at such a place."

Some swearing, some crying for a surgeon.

Some swearing, some crying for a surgeon.

Some upon the wives left poor behind them.

Some upon the debts they owe.

Some upon the debts they owe.

Some upon their children rawly left.

Now that's a very talented young actor.

He had such a tack, and he had such a sort of strong,

He had such a tack, and he had such a sort of strong,

and as it happened, very masculine presence

and very... He had that incredible sort of movie star jaw

and very... He had that incredible sort of movie star jaw

and those piercing eyes and... Eye. Blue eyes.

Yeah. A handsome lad, wasn't he? He was.

What is it about Shakespeare that means that we continue...

(DULL THUDDING) ..to want to tell stories?

(DULL THUDDING) ..to want to tell stories?

And there you go. Beating of your heart.Mm-hm.

The beating of your heart, all those lines.

It's what it sounds like or feels... Well, it's exactly what it is,

It's what it sounds like or feels... Well, it's exactly what it is,

and it's how you kind of retain it, isn't it.

When it's going with that rhythm of di-da, di-da, di-da.

When it's going with that beat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

When it's going with that beat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My father had a daughter. Loved a man.

My father had a daughter. Loved a man.

My father had a daughter. Loved a man.

When this project came along, All Is True, which we did together

where you played my missus as Shakespeare...

where you played my missus as Shakespeare...

..did you feel as though you knew the woman or had a sense of

who she might be? I don't think I did.

who she might be? I don't think I did.

I knew all about the family and everything

and their environment

and their environment

and exactly the kind of place they were in.

'All Is True, directed by Ken, is an imagined account

'All Is True, directed by Ken, is an imagined account

of how Shakespeare's later life might have been.

'In this scene, the bard has returned to his family home

after a long career in London,

an absentee father and husband,

an absentee father and husband,

unaware of how disconnected he has become.'

Goodnight husband.

Twenty years, Will.

We've seen you less and less.

To us, you're a guest.

To us, you're a guest.

And a guest must have the best bed.

Rest well.

For me, it was really a wonderful pleasure and a privilege,

really, to try and play an imagined version of Shakespeare.

really, to try and play an imagined version of Shakespeare.

Ben Elton's terrific screenplay.

'The real joy of the film, for me,

are the imagined conversations that Shakespeare might have had.'

are the imagined conversations that Shakespeare might have had.'

There is no corner of this world

you have not explored, no geography of the soul,

you have not explored, no geography of the soul,

which you cannot navigate.

How?

If you want to be a writer and speak to others and for others...

If you want to be a writer and speak to others and for others...

..speak first for yourself.

Search within.

For me, something that stamps him as a genius

is his capacity to understand what we might call,

is his capacity to understand what we might call,

and I think you never can call it, 'the ordinary'.

The ordinary is always extraordinary.

Quite. Yeah.

Quite. Yeah.

To bring down to a line which contains all...

..all that...

..all that...

not emotion, all that, all that intensity, that one might,

that everybody...

Well, that a lot of people experience in different ways.

Well, that a lot of people experience in different ways.

He somehow distilled it, didn't he. Distilled it.

And when we can't find words,

And when we can't find words,

we can find this poetry...

That's true...that goes beyond the baldly literate, or literal.

That's true...that goes beyond the baldly literate, or literal.

A good friend of mine, alas, lost his papa a little while ago,

and I could see he was, um,

you know, he was as affected as people are.

you know, he was as affected as people are.

You know, your dad's your dad. And he loved him.

And he said, I don't know what to say at the funeral.

And I said, "For what it's worth, there's this line from Hamlet,

And I said, "For what it's worth, there's this line from Hamlet,

I found I couldn't speak about my father much."

It was...

(TEARFULLY) You know, it just becomes...t becomes too much.

(TEARFULLY) You know, it just becomes...t becomes too much.

And I said, uh, I said, um, so there's this line in Hamlet

where he simply says, uh, you know, "Methinks I saw my father.

where he simply says, uh, you know, "Methinks I saw my father.

I saw him once. He, uh... he was a goodly king."

And Hamlet says, "He was a man.

And Hamlet says, "He was a man.

Take him for all in all.

I shall not look upon his like again."

And it was a big help to this lad whose dad had passed.

And I remember thinking, well, thanks, Shakespeare, for that.

And also there's a bit of comfort to someone. It was solace.

And also there's a bit of comfort to someone. It was solace.

It was comfort. It put some... It puts something into words.

It began a process because we know that grief is so...challenging.

It began a process because we know that grief is so...challenging.

'Michael and I bought this house and together,

with our daughter Finty,

we decided to dedicate trees in the garden

we decided to dedicate trees in the garden

to our friends who are no longer with us.'

That is Mags's tree. Aw.

That is Mags's tree. Aw.

Crabapple. (CHUCKLES) (LAUGHS)

Plenty of them as well. And it had. It's only...

Well, I don't know if it's got... Can you see if it's got fruit on it?

Well, I don't know if it's got... Can you see if it's got fruit on it?

Has it got fruit on it? You're telling me...

It's feckin and fertile. Well, it had nothing until

the day of her memorial.

the day of her memorial.

A kind of funeral.

And it had one, and I put it in my pocket.

And she's at the front door, but she can see everybody coming and going.

And she's at the front door, but she can see everybody coming and going.

She's watching. She's watching...

# AARON FRAZER: My God Has A Telephone #

Michael Benthall... Michael Benthall.

Michael Benthall... Michael Benthall.

..who I owe, well, all my career too.

Kept me on at the Vic.

Good on him, a man...a man of most excellent fancy, of infinite jest.

Good on him, a man...a man of most excellent fancy, of infinite jest.

Of infinite jest.He had borne me on his back a thousand times.

Of infinite jest.He had borne me on his back a thousand times.

We can go up here. A lot of people you'll know here.

There's Gambon and...

Bill Kenwright. Bill Kenwright, Peter Hall as well.

Bill Kenwright. Bill Kenwright, Peter Hall as well.

Yes. And here, if you come down here to the orchard...

Mm-hm. ..Sir John is over there.

Sir John's over there.

Sir John's over there.

# He brings the answer to my ear

# Because my God has a telephone...

# Because my God has a telephone...

I remember Dickie Briars.

Richard Briars of this parish,

Richard Briars of this parish,

we're in the dressing room at the Tokyo Globe Theatre,

and it was a Wednesday matinee, and it was raining

and we'd been on the road for quite some time,

and we'd been on the road for quite some time,

and the call came through it said,

"Mr. Briars, this is your beginner's call for Shakespeare's King Lear."

"Mr. Briars, this is your beginner's call for Shakespeare's King Lear."

And then very slowly, very deliberately, he turns to me

and he says...

"I fucking hate acting." (BOTH LAUGH)

"I fucking hate acting." (BOTH LAUGH)

I said, "Well, why do you hate it? Why do you hate it, Dick?"

He said, "Well, it isn't any kind of job for a grown man," he said.

He said, "Well, it isn't any kind of job for a grown man," he said.

I said, "Why not? He said, "Well, you're just standing

on a platform in tights shouting.

on a platform in tights shouting.

What's the fucking point?" (LAUGHS)

What... (LAUGHS)

So we've spent...we've spent a life standing on platforms

So we've spent...we've spent a life standing on platforms

in tights shouting, Judi.

That's all we do. That's all we do.

But it's better than working, isn't it?Quite.

But it's better than working, isn't it?Quite.

And you do it with a few mates.

(RECORD CRACKLING)

(RECORD CRACKLING)

All the world's a stage.

And all the men and women merely players.

They have their exits and their entrances.

They have their exits and their entrances.

And one man in his time plays many parts,

his acts being seven ages.

his acts being seven ages.

At first the infant...

Did you have a choice of wanting to do something else?

No, I couldn't do anything else.

My career choices as put to me by the very nice people

My career choices as put to me by the very nice people

who were trying to look after us as we left school were...

There's the insurance company, there's British Rail

There's the insurance company, there's British Rail

and there's the Army.

I didn't have any particular issue with any of those things,

but just I knew they were not me in any way, shape or form.

but just I knew they were not me in any way, shape or form.

But I knew that...

when...engaged with this curious business of imagining,

when...engaged with this curious business of imagining,

I was very, very, very much at home.

I enjoyed something I've always noticed in what you do,

I enjoyed something I've always noticed in what you do,

a playful quality, and it's especially in the theatre,

but sometimes in film as well. You're trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

but sometimes in film as well. You're trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

Yes, that's why film is so tricky, isn't it?

Because once you've done and you think, "Oh..."

When you see it you think, "Oh, no, that's not...

When you see it you think, "Oh, no, that's not...

That wasn't it at all." Yeah, well...

But that's what's so lovely about the theatre, you know.

Well, the audience don't realise what a huge part they play in it.

Well, the audience don't realise what a huge part they play in it.

Huge. They... Yeah... Yeah.

They teach you about it. They do teach you about it.

They teach you about it. They do teach you about it.

I feel these days in the theatre, the atmosphere is special

because people don't do it quite so much anymore

and they value it differently.

I think that's true. I think that's very, very true.

I think that's true. I think that's very, very true.

So I reckon we ought to keep going. That's what I reckon.

(SCOFFS)I reckon...I reckon... I reckon we ought to keep going.

(SCOFFS)I reckon...I reckon... I reckon we ought to keep going.

(NOSTALGIC PIANO MUSIC)

GIELGUD: (ON RECORD) Full of wise saws and modern instances.

And so he plays his part.

And so he plays his part.

The Sixth Age shifts into the lean and slippered pantaloon,

with spectacles on nose and pouch on side.(BOTH SPEAK ALONG)

with spectacles on nose and pouch on side.(BOTH SPEAK ALONG)

His youthful hose well saved a world too wide for his shrunk shank.

Crikey... His big manly voice

Crikey... His big manly voice

turning again toward childish treble,

pipes and whistles in his sound.

Last scene of all that ends this strange, eventful history

Last scene of all that ends this strange, eventful history

is second childishness and mere oblivion.

is second childishness and mere oblivion.

Sans teeth...Yellow.

Sans eyes. Sans taste.

Sans eyes. Sans taste.

Sans everything.

Bit gloomy, isn't he? (CHUCKLES)

# PRINCE BUSTER: Enjoy Yourself #

# It's good to be wise When you're young

# Well, you can only be young...

I've been-I've been asked... Are you going?

Asked to get me going? (LAUGHS)

Asked to get me going? (LAUGHS)

(MAN SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY) I thought that was you.

I thought... I've been asked to get you going.

I thought... I've been asked to get you going.

(BOTH LAUGH)

# Serve God and live, my friend, You are never done

# So enjoy yourself...

We took her out a couple of summers ago

in a little travelling cage, sitting on top.

in a little travelling cage, sitting on top.

Suddenly she said, and she's never said it before or since,

she said...

"Boris Johnson." (LAUGHS)

"Boris Johnson." (LAUGHS)

(CHIRRUPS)

# Get wisdom, get knowledge And understanding

# Those three were given free By the maker

# Stay in school, learn the rules #

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