All language subtitles for the.confession.tapes.s01e04.720p.web.x264-strife

[crackling]

[woman] To this day, I still...

I still feel people
hanging onto my legs and my arms,

hanging onto my body...
to keep me from running.

Charging through the halls,

knowing that my daughter...

[sighs]

my daughter was in the house.

[man] There were all kinds of stories
that were afloat during that time.

The rumors about Karen,
and also the rumors about suicide.

[man 2] The brutality of the case
is unique.

How could we have a mother kill
her daughter by burning her as she slept?

As jurors, they couldn't get their head
around that until they saw the proof.

[woman] I did not start that fire.

[man] Okay. Either that or you don't want
to believe that right now.

If I go into a house
wanting to find arson,

I will find things
that are suggestive of arson.

[man] There are some things that we do
that our bad mind causes us to do

that our good mind would never accept.

But in our bad mind,
just about anything can happen.

They use very coercive
psychological techniques.

She kept maintaining the story
that she probably lost her mind,

and that she didn't recall if she
set the fire or not, but she probably did.

[man] In our system of justice,

if you're convinced that there's two
valid explanations for the same event,

that's reasonable doubt.

[woman] The truth is that I had
absolutely nothing to do with the fire.

I didn't see the gas can,
I didn't touch the gas can.

I went to school with her,
so I've known her 40 years.

[Payne] Karen was very trusting.

Very outgoing, very friendly to everybody.

She loved her kids.

She spent a lot of time with them,
played games with them.

My daughter was my whole life.
Both my kids were.

I was especially close to Robin,
and we were inseparable.

I remember we used to play
this little mailbox game.

We would leave
different little love notes to each other

and she'd say, "Mail lady here for you!"

And Robin was attached to my hip
until she was, like, 13 years old.

[Boes] My home is normally
in Zeeland, Michigan.

I live there with my family.

I got up that morning and had coffee
with my husband, as we always did,

and just sat and watched the news.

Then I started doing laundry.

We were gonna go on vacation.

Robin, my daughter, was upstairs.

I heard her wake up
and start walking around.

And I went out the front door.

So I got in my truck,

then I went to my husband, Wayne,
his body shop,

just about 45 seconds away from the house.

I left from there
and went to my girlfriend's house.

She got there right before nine o'clock
'cause she didn't want to be late.

[Payne] Then we drove to Grand Rapids,
we went to a Payless shoe store

and we looked at the sign
and it said it didn't open until ten.

It was 9:30.

So then we were gonna leave
and go to the mall.

We were pulling out of the driveway

and we got a phone call
saying there was a fire at her house.

- Ottawa 911.
- [woman caller] I'm in Zeeland right now.

I'm driving to work and I see a house
smoldering from the top.

[operator] What address is it at?

[caller] I can't see an address.
I'm on Williams Street.

What color is the house?

[caller] It's brick with a...
like a burgundy siding on it.

- [operator] We'll get somebody out there.
- [caller] All right, thanks. Bye.

[Boes] We immediately turned around.

I just couldn't believe my ears,
what I was hearing.

My son had told us
that my daughter was in the house.

I felt like I was, you know...

I had to get there as quick as I could.

[dispatcher] Holland Township Station 2,
on assist to Zeeland City on a house fire.

All additional Zeeland City personnel,
report directly to the scene.

[faint siren wailing]

[crackling]

[Payne] We pulled up to the scene.

She jumped out of the car
and started running towards the house.

Wayne said, "No, Karen, don't go there,"
and pulled her away.

[Boes] All I remember
is just the sheer pain

of knowing that my daughter
was in the house.

They finally gave me a shot of Valium
and sat me on the ground

so I wouldn't run towards the house.

It was a short time later

that my daughter came out
on the stretcher.

[moans] That was the end
of her little life.

[radio static crackles]

[dispatcher] Zeeland Fire is reporting

the fire is knocked down
on Williams Street.

When I arrived, my father's department
was already on scene...

Holland Township, Station 3.

[Libby] I was tasked
with a thermal imaging camera

to go upstairs into the residence
to look for hotspots.

[lantern clicks]

[Libby] I proceeded up
through the stairway...

and entered the victim's bedroom.

There was a lot of debris on the floor.

Then I proceeded to look for hotspots.

When I did that,
I found a five-gallon gas can.

[faint sloshing]

I actually turned around
and I asked my father,

I said, "Hey, look at this,"
and he told me to throw it out the window.

Something went up in a flag in my head

and I thought that
that was not the best idea,

so I put it right back at my feet
where I found it.

Then I called for a sheriff to come
into the house and take a look at it.

It's just not normal
to have a gas can in your bedroom.

[firefighter] Williams Street Command

requesting investigators
to the scene here.

[dispatcher] 10-4, Command. 9-48.

[Libby] If you're calling in
a fire investigator,

you have some suspicion
that it might be... arson.

Never would think in a million years
that this would happen.

[Essenburg] I'm not sure who came,
some police officer came.

And then Karen took a few of us away

and said that it's rumored
that Robin committed suicide.

And she was very distraught.

They questioned me,
like at 10:30 that night of the fire.

First they thought Robin did it.

And Karen thought it was, you know,
accidental that Robin did it.

And then the next day, I hear that
they were looking at her as a suspect.

[man] They found the gas can
in the bedroom.

There was evidence
of an arson fire, an accelerant,

that caused the fire
and burned her house down.

So, what happened?

There's a reason to want to know
what happened,

and her daughter's passed away.

You know, "Did Robin do this herself?
Well, what do you know, Karen?"

[Hulsing] Interestingly enough,
on July 30, the day that Robin was found,

Karen was interviewed.

And briefly, by way of...
And it was a recorded audio cassette.

[detective] Karen, I want to apologize
that we have to talk to you,

but unfortunately, we do.

- We don't know...
- [Boes] I understand.

[detective] you know, we don't know
what happened

and we gotta try to find out.

And Detective Harris from the state police
was talking to her

and mentioned something about the gas can,

and then Karen said, "You didn't
find it in her bedroom, did ya?"

[Harris] It's our understanding
that you had been missing a gas can?

[Boes] Yeah, but I can't imagine
she would have done that.

You didn't find it in her room, did you?

- [Harris] Yes, we did.
- [Boes] Oh, my God.

Oh, don't tell me this!

That was not told to her.

Karen volunteered that, and certainly
that's where the gas can was found.

[Boes] I went down to the police station
to write a statement.

They told me they wanted to find out
what happened to my daughter.

And they said,
"That's what you want, too."

And absolutely, that's all I wanted,

was to find out what happened
to my dear daughter.

And they said,
"We're gonna figure this out together."

[Essenburg] Well, I believe
that's when she was interrogated.

I don't even know how many hours it was.
It was unreal. Over ten hours.

She came voluntarily.
Her husband brought her voluntarily.

There's no indication
she was under the influence of alcohol.

There's no indication she was under
the influence of any medication.

And they start questioning her
and she didn't have a lawyer.

[Boes] They gave me a polygraph test
for... a length of time.

Then they pulled me out
and he asked me how I thought I did

and I said, "I have no doubt, you know,

that I passed with flying colors,
you know?"

There was no doubt in my mind whatsoever.
I had nothing to hide.

And it wasn't until the polygraph
was being administered

that suddenly all the red flags came up.

[Boes] He told me that I failed miserably
on the polygraph test.

I just couldn't believe my ears.

And they brought me back
into an interrogation room

and started questioning me.

[Harris] Knowing the things
that we know on the scene,

and the evidence
that was collected, and I...

I know you know more about the fire.

I know you were there.
I just want you to try to think.

The heaviness that you have right now

is only gonna go away
when you're able to talk about this.

Did she do something
to try to get you upset that morning?

This is all gonna be better
once you're able to talk about it.

And that you want to talk about it,
and that you want to tell us about it.

There's just something
in the way right now.

[Boes] Yes, there is,
because I don't have a clue.

[Harris] How did the fire start?

[Boes] I don't remember.

- [Harris] But...
- That I don't know.

[Harris] Okay, I can believe that. Okay?

That you really don't know
exactly how it started.

And it got out of hand
before you were able to stop it.

But we can get help. We can help you.

[Boes] Fine, get me help.

[Harris] But we... but before
that can happen, you have to talk to us.

- [Boes] I don't know...
- You have to tell us.

You remember things right before
and you remember things right after.

I need to know.
I need you to fill in the middle for me.

I know somewhere in your heart,
you know what happened, Karen.

The machine really doesn't lie.

It's just a machine.
It has no reason to lie.

- [Boes] I know that, I know that. I know.
- It just tells certain things.

Now's the time, Karen.

[man] I don't think for one minute
when she walked into that room

that she thought she was a suspect
in the death of her daughter.

[Zessin] In this area, people have
a high regard for police authority.

And she felt like, "I have to do
what these folks tell me I need to do."

Hi, Karen.

They said that you had asked about me
and I got here about half an hour ago.

- Just to...
- [Boes] I apparently did it.

[Olney] Okay.

What makes you say that?

[Boes] The test.

[Olney] You mind
if I just swing the door shut

and we just talk for a little bit?

- [Boes sighs] I guess that's fine.
- Okay.

[Boes] Chief Olney was...
he was our neighbor.

Our kids went to school together.
I babysat his children.

We went to church together.

We weren't,
like super close as close friends,

but very well acquainted,

and knew each other,
I thought, well enough.

I really had a lot of trust in him.

[Olney] Okay, so you can't find
the mirror,

so you're getting angry about it.

You think you shouldn't have to go
through this stuff.

"Here I am, I'm an adult, I've got
a 14-year-old trying to manipulate me.

I've got to take control
of the situation somehow."

[Boes] You know, you guys
are looking for answers

that I don't know how to answer, Bill.

[Olney] Well, we're all looking
for answers, there's no doubt about that.

[Boes] Oh, and I am, too.

But you're the one
who has the answers, Karen.

At least you've got more than we do
because you were there.

[Boes] I don't know.

You look at statements that are made
to her during the course of the interview

and it was things... you know,
"We just want to let you get home,

and the sooner
you answer these questions..."

And, you know, and, and...

the number of times
that she denied any involvement,

any knowledge of anything
that happened to her daughter that day,

yet they would not let that be the answer.

[Olney] I don't think for a moment, Karen,
that this is something you planned out.

[Boes] Oh, I know. It's not, Bill.

- And...
- And I still don't believe I did it.

But everything points to it.

[Olney] Here's the thing,
you must be remembering something,

otherwise, you would not have failed
on those two questions.

[Boes] What do you want me to say?
I can't bring anything up.

[Olney] Okay, well I'm not trying to
put words in your mouth, that's for sure.

It's in your mind,

because that's why the polygraph
is telling us

that you failed those two questions.

And it's not like you failed them
a little bit.

He tells me you failed them
just about as...

- [Boes] Bad as I could.
- [Olney] ...high as you can. Yeah.

[Payne] They told her that she flunked
her lie detector test,

and after a while you just...
well, you know, start doubting yourself.

[Olney] But you've got to have some
detail.

That's what you've gotta figure out,
is the detail.

[Boes] I don't know any detail
because I don't believe I did it yet.

Okay? I don't have it
in my mind at all that I did that.

And I've seen the test,
and I know how foolproof they are.

That she was trying to tell them
everything she possibly knew,

and every stupid detail
that she could come up with.

[Fernandez] So you guys got in a fight
and she saw a gas can.

And she told you,
"What are you gonna do with this?"

- And you guys got into...
- [Boes] No! That isn't how it goes.

- Now don't put words in my mouth.
- [Fernandez] No, I'm just saying, sorry.

- [Boes] No, that isn't how it went.
- Okay.

[Boes] We had been missing the gas can.

It was just almost like a conspiracy.
From the very first, it was Karen.

[Geminder] The gas can had been missing
for two weeks.

And they didn't know where it was.

[Boes] We thought the boys took it.
They started the fire in the back yard.

We thought some boys
started the fire in the back yard.

[Boes] A couple weeks before the fire
that took my daughter's life, we found...

it was sort of like a campfire
in our back yard.

We just noticed that there was firewood,
you know, piled up back there.

There was like three little logs.

They were partially burnt.

Then after that point, we just looked
all over the place for the gas can.

Could not find it anywhere.

[Fernandez] So you see the gas can there

and you get pissed
because she was hiding it all along.

- You confront her with that, right?
- [Boes] I did not, no!

No? So, what happened?

I thought it was very, very poor timing
on their part

to put a person
who was very emotionally fragile

in a situation of having to discuss issues
related to the death of her daughter.

[Boes] At the end of the day,
it was quite late.

I felt so hopeless. I felt alone.

I was just an emotional mess.

[Zessin] I know for a fact,
because she told me,

"I never in my wildest dreams thought
that I was answering questions

that would incriminate me."

[Boes] They put different scenarios
out there for me

and had me repeat them back to them
like I'm in this dream state.

[Olney] I think maybe the thing
we gotta think about is...

if you did dream about doing this,
how would it happen?

Not saying that it did,
but if you did dream...

[Boes] I can't remember
a specific dream, Bill.

And they said, finally,
"If you're not sure,

then maybe in your dreams, could it,
you know, could it have happened?"

[Olney] Just concentrate on the dream
for a little while.

How did it work its way through?

[Boes] I don't remember
if I saw the gas can

or if I saw it in my dreams afterwards.

After I was told.

- [Olney] Okay.
- Okay.

[Boes] Apparently...

[sighs] I went upstairs,
needed the phone...

saw the gas can,

sloshed it around a little bit.

Apparently must have spread gas around,

and lit a candle in her room.

[Olney] Okay.

[Boes] I guess that I just went insane
and lost it.

[Payne] She was, you know, so upset,

that they ended up bringing her
to Holland Hospital Psych Ward.

[Boes] I didn't feel like living anymore.

I knew that if I went home,
I was going to commit suicide.

People don't ever want to believe

that someone would confess
to something they didn't do.

[Satawa] Well, the real problem with that

is people confess to things
they didn't do all the time.

Imagine the feeling you have
driving down the freeway

and you look behind you
and there's a police car behind you

with its lights on, pulling you over.

We all panic.

I mean, we have that anxiety

and that stress
of an encounter with the police,

and you're accused of speeding.

Now imagine a police officer telling you,

"We think you set
your daughter's bedroom on fire,

burned your house down,
and killed your daughter on purpose."

Police officers prey
on that natural stress and anxiety.

[Harris] Knowing the things
that we know on the scene,

and the evidence that was collected and...

I know you know more about the fire.

I know you were there.
I just want you to try to think.

Police officers target those weaknesses
in a suspect to go after them.

[Harris] I know that this is all gonna be
better once you're able to talk about it.

And that you want to talk about it,
and that you want to tell us about it.

[Satawa] I think it was three or four
different people

ended up asking her questions
and it was on a rotating basis.

All kinds of things were told to Karen
that just simply were not true.

They told her they found evidence of gas
on her shoes, on her clothes,

fingerprints on the gas can.

[Fernandez] You got... the gas can.

- They got your fingerprints.
- [Boes] Right.

[Fernandez] You got the fire that started
probably when you were there

'cause people... witness puts you there
around 8:55, 8:50.

You know, around there.

And then they got more.
They got a search warrant.

I'm telling you
so you don't think I'm BS-ing you.

It's time to tell the truth.
Now it's important to tell the truth.

She's told things
that were simply not true

about things that her husband was saying
or other family was saying.

[Olney] Now here's the other thing,
you know.

Wayne knows what's happened now.

He knows that you haven't passed this test
by your own admission.

You just showed him, you know?

The charts, look at here.
Look what's happened.

At some point,

Wayne has to start wondering
about what's gonna happen next.

[Satawa] In Karen's case,
they were talking to her again about,

"What if you were sleepwalking?"
or "What if this happened in a dream?"

It's bizarre.

[Harris] Karen, I understand that
you're scared to tell me what happened.

[Boes] I don't know what happened.

- [Harris] Why?
- In my conscious mind.

[Harris] How about your unconscious mind?

[Boes] How am I supposed to know that?

And ultimately, after working on them
and breaking them down psychologically,

you get the suspect to a point

where they understand
they're not getting out of this.

They can admit
to killing someone on purpose,

or maybe it was an accident.

[Fernandez] And like I said,
there's two choices here,

and I'm leaving right now.
Either you did this on purpose,

you planned it, you're cold-blooded,

or you did it by mistake,
and I think it's the second one.

[Boes] Okay. I did it by mistake.

I know I wouldn't have done that
on purpose.

But I do not know how I did it. Okay?

All of these red flags,
where we talk about

these are the dangers
of potential false confessions,

almost all of them are present
in Karen's case.

We are confident in the charge
that we have filed against her today.

[Hulsing] This case was as big as it gets.
This was for all the marbles.

This was, "Did Karen do it?
Why did she do it?

What evidence do we have
that she did do it?"

And Robin deserved it
to have all the facts laid out.

It is ultimately for the jury to decide

whether Karen was involved
in the intentional setting of a fire

which resulted
in the death of her daughter.

[Zessin] It's a "connect-the-dot" case
for them, all right?

That every single dot
followed correctly, okay?

That, you know,
this fact caused this event.

But in our system of justice,

if you're convinced that there's two
valid explanations for the same event,

that's reasonable doubt.

I told them I knew about the trial.
I'd watched the news before I went.

Kinda had heard the whole story,
but didn't hear too much.

I was the last one selected,
I do know that.

I do remember that to a T.

I was... I was kind of hoping not to be.

But I was the last one selected.

I didn't really know
the flow of a courtroom that well.

It was my first experience
ever being in a courtroom.

I remember it started
with the prosecuting attorney coming up

'cause the prosecutor goes first.

[Hulsing] This fire was
an intentionally-set fire

fueled by a liquid accelerant, gasoline,

that was started
outside of Robin's bedroom.

And that Robin
could not have started the fire.

[Hulsing] Really, we had
a lot of information

and it all had to be presented, because
I knew, the investigative team knew

that unless this case
was presented pretty much airtight,

it was not going to result
in a conviction.

[Hulsing] One week after Robin's death,
she told her husband,

"There are times that I hated her.
She treated me like..."

It was very... I don't know how to say it.

It was a very... surreal thing.

You didn't expect somebody
to hit the nail on the head that hard

to say directly, you know, those words.

[Boes] The prosecution made up the story.

To me, the whole presentation
was just like a horse-and-pony show.

And it was just there
to make things look extreme.

They played up this... the issue

between the daughter and the mom
having some, you know, friction.

[Hulsing] We found out that Karen
and Robin had a tumultuous relationship.

That Karen didn't like Robin.
She hated her, and she...

And I'm not just making this up,
those were her words.

[Satawa] One of the people
who came forward to testify against her

was a person that Karen met at AA,

and violated the confidentiality
of an AA meeting.

She told me that she hated her daughter.

[Essenburg] Robin was a little sweetie,

but two years before she died,
there were issues.

She was like a 14-year-old going on 18.

[Geminder] Robin was a troubled teen.

She was running around
with the wrong crowd.

You know, I know she was into drugs
and all that.

She'd threatened to run away
several times.

[Essenburg] Karen would sleep,
like at the end of the steps from upstairs

to make sure she wouldn't leave the house
in the middle of the night.

As most 14-year-old adolescents,
they want to take charge

and they want to do their thing, so...

naturally,
that was where the conflict was.

[Rigg] I think Wayne and Karen
at this particular time,

were wanting to know about their daughter.

"What can we do?"

Robin's relationship was bad
with Wayne and Karen both.

[Geminder] After the fire,
the police found Robin's diary.

[Satawa] She contacted CPS,
Child Protective Services, about the dad.

Not about Karen, but about the dad.

[Satawa] And then,
all of this sort of came to a head

in the weeks leading up to this fire

because the Boeses planned
to go on this family vacation.

She was real mad at 'em

because they made her go
on a camping trip with them.

[Boes] The evening before the fire,

she talked to me
about wanting to come home from vacation

because she had a brand new job,
her first job.

And Wayne blew up
and got in a great big fight with her.

It was pretty heated.

This all got squashed down
by the police, that...

like the fight never really happened.

[Boes] Yes, I said
that I hated my daughter.

Um...

That was very much out of just trying
to express that frustration at the time.

- I hated...
- [Hulsing] Did you hate your daughter?

No, I never stopped loving my daughter.

[Boes] During the interrogation,

they asked me if I had any secrets
that nobody knows

and if I was gonna take
this polygraph test,

that it was imperative that I just...

You know, tell the whole truth
about everything.

I came out and told them
that I had an affair.

It had ended,
like, three years previous to that.

Nobody knew about it.

The prosecutor
tried to bring it into trial,

and the judge told him
that it had absolutely nothing to do

with what had happened to my daughter.

I found out about the affair
the day she was arrested.

And I was totally shocked.

I think as soon as he found out
about the affair, you know,

he kind of didn't want anything
to do with her anymore.

[Zessin] When they came in originally,
they came together.

And Wayne was completely onboard
with his wife's innocence

and lack of involvement in this.

Unconditionally supported her.

And then, I think he began to listen
to the police.

Wayne began to buy into it.

It seemed like she had snapped.

- [Hulsing] That who had snapped?
- My wife.

And why do you say that?

Because it was a whole different demeanor,
it was just like a whole different person.

[Zessin] Does she have flaws?
Sure, we all have flaws.

But it doesn't cause us to be murderers.

None of us are perfect in any way.

People that have affairs
doesn't mean they kill their children.

To me, the whole thing
was based on her character.

[Hulsing] What we believe happened
is Karen left the house at 8:55 a.m.

after pouring gasoline in Robin's room
as Robin slept.

Ignited the fire...

Left the house.

The fire was discovered by a neighbor
or passerby about five minutes later,

and then the fire was extinguished
and Robin was found,

and ultimately,
she passed away from smoke inhalation.

We wanted to verify that.

So Marquardt suggested
that we get a PhD expert,

and he suggested John DeHaan,

who has actually written the book
on arson investigation.

A lot of people refer to it
as the "bible of fire investigation."

It's based on what I've actually seen
happen in fires and explosions.

By the hundreds, at this point.

Fortunately in this case,
the scene was still intact,

which five months after the incident,
is pretty rare.

And so, I remember,
you know, looking to see

where there might have been
a pattern of damage.

Actually, under the door,

and then we put the inner face
of the door back up

and you could see
a burn pattern on the door,

going under the door
in its closed position.

Well, the door was closed.

When did it get closed?

Because there was burn patterns
on the door jamb and things like that.

[Hulsing] Because of the fire patterns
and the burn patterns,

we were able to conclude

that the fire started
right outside of Robin's bedroom

with the door almost closed
in its entirety.

I think I testified
that there was gasoline poured

from outside the door into the room

and the gas can was left there.

[DeHaan]
The only thing that I could identify

that would create
that kind of intense fire at that location

would be a flammable liquid

that ends up getting burned away
substantially during the fire.

[Boeve] There was burn evidence
in the carpet

and in the little piece of wooden trim

that showed where the door was
to Robin's room

while this fire was burning.

That in my mind
was some of the most significant evidence

that showed how this fire was burning
outside of this... Robin's room.

I think that the arson evidence
admitted against Karen

is the junk of all junk science.

[Satawa] She was investigated,

and they took these tests
that can determine

whether or not you had exposure
to gasoline or some other accelerant,

whether you had exposure to a fire.

[Geminder] They took Karen's clothes,
they took her shoes...

they took her car

to test it to see if there was
any gasoline in it at all.

All of those were negative
as they related to Karen.

They were positive
as they related to Robin.

[man] We discuss within our circles,

the worst thing that could happen to us

is to have a fire and be the only one
that gets out of the house,

because we know we're gonna go to jail.

[Smith] And in this particular case,
Karen Boes was arrested for this.

And unfortunately,
the primary reason for that

may have been nothing more
than she was alive.

And the only person that really knows
what happened was deceased.

A lot of what traditional arson
investigators like DeHaan have done

is they've done investigation
based on assumptions that aren't true.

[Satawa]
DeHaan and the prosecutor speculated

that because of the burn pattern
outside of Robin's bedroom,

particularly on the ceiling and the wall,

that they could determine
that the fire was set intentionally

outside in the hallway.

[Smith] There was no gasoline found
in the hallway,

yet the state indicated they believe
gasoline to have been placed

at that location.

There's no physical evidence
of any gasoline being spread

other than within this room

where a five-gallon gasoline can
was found next to Robin's body.

I believe that Robin
was spreading the gasoline.

Whether it was an intentional act of her
actually striking one of the many matches

that were found in that bedroom,

or whether it ignited
from perhaps a candle flame

before she was able to strike that match.

There was no burns
to the underside of her chin,

so that's very consistent
with a right-handed person leaning over,

lighting or throwing a match...

[scrapes]

and as they're leaned over,
their head is down,

which is protecting this portion,
which is what we saw.

In any event,
the gasoline was being spread by Robin.

Well, as an expert witness,

there always somebody else
that has an opposing opinion.

But I did test that hypothesis,

because that was the primary
competing hypothesis.

Did she start the fire inside the room?

And I couldn't make the pieces fit.
They have the burn patterns in the hall.

The ventilation pattern under the door.

It just didn't fit.

The prosecution did a fantastic job.

Their expert was an incredible expert.

He really had the crime scene laid out
with exactly a timeline

of "the fire started here,
it grew here for a while,

then this happened, then this happened."

Then there was an explosion

or a "deflagration," as they called it,
in Robin's room.

That's what actually killed her.

Juries like to hear... in my opinion...
They like to hear how something happened.

They're not as enamored when...
with my testimony if I say,

"You know,
I don't know if she struck a match

or if a candle caused pre-ignition
of this gasoline."

What they are fascinated with
is somebody that has the ability to say,

"The door was open for only 15 seconds

because of a char pattern on this door,

and it only opened by three inches,

so based on that,

this happened, and this happened,
and this happened."

And they tend to sit back and go,
"Oh, I understand."

And so, every one of us,
as a fire investigator,

has to be cognizant of the fact
that we could be making a mistake.

[woman] Have you been wrong before?

Have you had to recant
your conclusions before?

Yes. Because the data changed.

There's one very high-profile case
with three kids dead

in a fire... in a house fire.

And my original conclusion
based on the data that was available

when I reached my initial conclusion,
was that the mother actually set the fire.

So, I changed, yeah, I changed my opinion.

[woman] What, is that case at all similar
to this case?

Or could be?

Mm...

Well, I mean,
all structure fires resulting in a death

are, you know, similar to...
in some respects, but...

I don't know how I'd draw a parallel.

[Hulsing] Does it make sense
for this 14-year-old girl,

dressed in her underwear,
apparently with no makeup on,

hair pulled back,

no shoes on,

to start pouring gasoline
in her own bedroom?

You will not be able to establish...

beyond a reasonable doubt

that Karen Boes poured gasoline
in the east-west hallway of the bedroom.

[Payne] Her lawyer kept on saying,
"Well, they don't have any evidence."

So, we all expected,
you know, an innocent verdict.

[Hulsing] We sent the jury home
for the day. That was a Thursday.

And they came back
the following Friday.

And they got their instructions
at nine o'clock.

And then they began the deliberations
around ten, 10:30, something like that.

[Hulsing] It was to the point where
the judge was saying to the attorneys,

"I think I'm gonna send 'em home at 11."

And all of a sudden, the bell went off.

[judge] The jury has been advised by
the bailiff that you've reached a verdict.

If so, let your foreperson rise.

[forewoman]
Guilty of first-degree felony murder.

[woman gasps, yelps]

[woman sobbing]

Twelve members of the community
looked her in the eye and said,

"We find you guilty of murdering
your 14-year-old daughter."

That says it all.

I think it was...
they're thinking of her as a bad person

because she had an affair
and she was an alcoholic.

I think that's what did her in.

There's nobody else
who could have been there at that time.

Somebody had to have started the fire.
It had to have been her.

[Boeve] And she was definitely
a troubled enough person,

so I felt she was guilty.

They honestly could paint a picture
of what happened

that really was a picture.

Her guy didn't paint any picture.

[Zessin] You want to believe
in reasonable doubt.

And if ever there was reasonable doubt,

because there was an alternate theory
that I proposed

that was proven scientifically,

in other words,
the cause and the origin of the fire.

Let alone no motivation, no opportunity,

none of those things
seemed to matter to the jury.

And I think it goes back
to nine hours of tapes.

[Satawa] What is the smoking gun?

What is the glaring reason
Karen got convicted?

It was the junk arson evidence
and the confession.

[Hulsing]
It wasn't a "Hee-haw! We won the case!"

It was really the realization
that justice has been served.

But there really is no joy, per se,
because Robin will not be coming back.

We're going to have Karen
spend the rest of her life in prison.

We're going to have her family
and friends still supporting her,

thinking that the system wronged them.

[Zessin] Whenever you lose a case
you should win, you have regrets.

You don't sleep at night.

I walked out of that courtroom.

I just packed my stuff
and walked out the back hallway

and out to the parking lot, got in my car,
went home and said,

"I don't know if I'll ever try
another criminal case."

I'm going to be going to prison
for the rest of my life

for something that...

I never even would have thought of doing.

But there is another day of judgment
that each one of us will face

for the good and bad that we have done.

Before Almighty God,

I shall not stand accountable

for this crime
that I have been convicted of.

My thoughts are that Karen's innocent
and that what she said in there was true.

God will decide in the end,
but we plan on getting her out.

Our criminal justice system
needs a real good look at.

I think that it's a terrible,
terrible mis... miscarriage of justice.

[voices overlapping]

[man] I sat in that trial every day.

And at the end of the day,
I said, "They haven't proven a thing."

And yet, they convicted her.
I just don't understand it.

[Essenburg] In the beginning,
Judy and I would go every month,

and then it got to be every two months.

And now, it's about every three months.

[Boes] My first three years here,
I was in shock.

I was grieving my daughter.

At first, you know,
it's... you know, was crazy,

and, you know, now she's kind of
accepted things the way they are.

[Boes] I've had such wonderful support.

Oh, my gosh, and I'm just so grateful.

And I don't... I don't know what I'd do
without the people

that have stood by me
through all these years.

[Boes on speaker]
You guys, you know, my friends...

through the years, I mean,
you guys have just been there through...

oh, man,
my very, very worst, you know?

Thank you so much.

Shows what your friendship
means to us, though, too.

[Payne] So, we're all hopeful.

We go and we, you know,
try to cheer her up

and joke with her, tell her stories.

And you know,
talk about our kids, grandkids.

[Payne] My daughter married her son,

and we have
a really cute little granddaughter.

Judy and I always say we'll keep going,

even if our children
have to drive us here, and...

yep, we will not ever stop.

[Hulsing] We have a community
that is still divided.

We have people
who can't psychologically get there...

That their friend, their family member,
their acquaintance did this.

[woman] Why couldn't they have
just settled

on this being suicide or an accident?

I have no clue.

Maybe 'cause Hulsing was gonna run
for judge and this looked good.

[Rigg] Sometimes, it's hard
to get to what's best

because there's so much conflict
between who's right.

And there's a need for more justice
than what showed up.

There is no scientific data
to show that Karen actually set a fire

that resulted in the death
of her daughter, Robin.

[Smith] You know, and I've told them
I'm certainly standing by

to continue the case pro bono

to see if we can get her out.

[Boes] I had a lot of trust in the system.

I was brought up to believe that,
you know,

the innocent are innocent
until proven guilty.

That is not the case.

I just don't... I had no idea.

The police were there to serve
and protect me, you know?

They were the good guys, for Pete's sake.

I just believed they were out
for my best interests.

And I would advise anybody today,
no matter how innocent you may be,

get an attorney, and don't speak.