Original subtitles

okay your final failure meditation now

you say it's a failure but you meditate

for 2 hours a day yes one 1 hour in the

morning and 1 hour in the evening

usually yes so why do you categorize it

as a failure um again it's it's it's not

exactly a failure but in meditation you

constantly fail but uh this is a good

thing this is part of of the meditation

the meditation often is a process of

observing uh your failure and coming to

term terms with it because you know like

the most basic at least in in the type

of meditation that I practice vipasana

which I I've learned here in the UK when

I was doing my PhD in Oxford so I went

to a center uh near Herod and learned

from a teacher called esen goenka uh

vasana meditation and the first and most

basic instruction sounds incre

incredibly easy you just focus your

entire attention on your own breath

around the nostrils and around the nose

you just feel when the breath is coming

in and when it's going out that's it you

don't need to control the breath it's

not a breathing exercise you just need

to observe to feel is it coming in or is

it going out that's it and the amazing

thing is it's so difficult like you do

it for 5 seconds 10 seconds 20 seconds

and then your mind wanders away some

memory comes some thought comes some

fantasy comes and you start rolling in

the memory for like 5 minutes before you

remember hey I actually supposed to be

feeling my breath and you come back to

it and you do it for 30 seconds and and

then again it runs away and when when I

went to my first course this was such a

shock that again I have no control over

my mind I don't know what's happening

there like I thought I was very

intelligent and and person and by then I

was also out as as a gay man and I

thought okay I know my deep Secrets now

and here I am sitting with closed eyes

trying to do this simple simple thing of

just feeling the breath coming in and

out I can't do it for more like 20

seconds what's happening and it's been

like 24 years since then I've been

practicing two hours every day every

year I go to a long retreat of 30 days

or 60 days of meditation and still I you

know I do it for a few minutes and the

mind wanders somewhere so it's a failure

in this sense uh but this is how I get

to know my mind and this is how I get to

know

reality this is the real the inner

reality of what's happening in my mind

and uh noticing this and also noticing

where the mind wanders away and what

happens to the body and to the mind when

a particular thought comes up uh this is

a process of of uh getting to know

yourself not by reading books about

psychology or about biology or whatever

you're actually in a laboratory

observing yourself second by second and

really there is nothing like that in the

world it's so interesting to hear you

describe it as a laboratory where you're

observing your mind because a lot of

people would describe it as a spiritual

practice I'm a scientist I know so are

you uneasy with the idea that it's a

spiritual practice I don't think there

is any contradiction between these two I

mean for me spirituality is about big

questions what is the meaning of life

who am I and the willingness to follow

these questions wherever they lead you

and this uh stands in contrast I think

to established religions which require

you to believe in a certain Dogma so the

answer is at the center not the

question uh whereas science is in this

sense much more spiritual science also

is about raising these big questions and

following them of course with different

tools like scientists also one of the

biggest questions in science is what is

consciousness how does electrical

activity between billions of neurons how

does this create the sensation of pain

we have no idea but we we investigate so

in the scientific laboratory we

investigate it with tools like

microscopes in meditation we investigate

the same question basically what is pain

where is it coming from but by directly

observing the pain not with the help of

any microscope but just feeling the

pain God that's so well

explained uh my final question it's a

slightly odd one but I'm interested so

that's I'm going to ask it okay so odd

questions are the best good so if

someone were to ask you where do you

want to go for dinner tonight or uh what

hotel would you like to stay in or what

time would you like to fly or what do

you want to wear today do you answer

from your feeling or your

intellect I often let my husband decide

so interesting do you think you're a

people pleaser in some ways yes but in

other ways completely no I mean I please

them in the um areas which are less

important to me why fight about it let

them do what they want but when

something is really important then then

no like again like like with these

meditation Retreats I disappear every

year for like 30 days or 60 days if you

ask my husband or my mother or the

people in my company about it I'm not

sure they're happy about it but it's

just like I I put it in the calendar

like you know I'm I won't be available

from like the 1st of December to the 1st

of February deal with it I imagine it's

also because your intellect is so

overworked a lot of the time and you're

constantly having to make decisions

about what to write and what to think so

sometimes if someone asks you where to

go for dinner you're like I don't just

just too

much absolutely but if I forced you and

if I said okay you're in London tonight

and you can eat one kind of Cuisine M

does that response come from feeling or

thought I think from feeling but I would

probably pick a place I've already been

to I I I'll go I'll go for the safe

Choice ever the scientist but as we now

know that's also being a bit spiritual

follow the questions I want that on a

t-shirt thank you for watching make sure

to check out the full episode of how to

fail on your preferred podcast platform

and also be sure to follow us on social

media for the latest updates