Original subtitles

ANNOUNCER: This program is about unsolved mysteries.

Whenever possible, the actual family members

and police officials have participated

in recreating the events.

What you are about to see is not a news broadcast.

ROBERT STACK: Tonight, a special edition

of "Unsolved Mysteries"--

in the summer of 1991, 31-year-old Jeffrey Dahmer

confessed to the unprovoked murders of 17 young men.

Neighbors and coworkers, who described

Dahmer as a quiet loner, were shocked by the revelations.

In the 1980s, banking executives siphoned billions

from the nation's S&Ls.

Savings were diverted to fraudulent land

schemes, luxury cars and yachts, prostitutes

and political slush funds.

The rest of us will be repaying the debt

well into the next century.

Iraqi president Saddam Hussein murdered thousands

of rivals in his rise to power.

Though soundly defeated by Operation Desert Storm,

he has re-emerged to threaten world stability.

The central characters in these seemingly unrelated events

share one disturbing trait, a cunning mind

unrestrained by conscience.

Some call them psychopaths.

Others call the sociopaths.

We call them diabolical minds.

Motherhood is above suspicion, unquestioned, sacred.

So no one was surprised when Marie Hilley resolutely

nursed her family through a series

of debilitating illnesses.

Nobody had any idea that Marie Hilley

was poisoning her own family.

From his prison cell, convicted murderer G. Daniel

Walker terrorized a deputy district

attorney who prosecuted him.

Our exclusive interview with Walker

paints a chilling portrait of the diabolical mind.

In June 1989, a mother and her two daughters

were sexually assaulted then dumped,

still alive, into Tampa Bay.

Perhaps you can help identify the killer,

who authorities believe will continue to rape and murder.

Tonight in this special presentation,

we'll explore the mysteries of a frightening phenomenon--

the mysteries of the diabolical mind.

Join me.

[music playing]

The words diabolical and psychopath

bring to mind the lurid villains from horror movies,

out of control, glassy eyed, unkempt maniacs.

Real life psychopaths bear little resemblance

to these movie madmen.

They hold jobs, shop for groceries,

and appear no different than the rest of us--

most of the time.

Only the minority of psychopaths

are actually violent.

There are people who are vice presidents of corporations, who

step over the competition, whose backstabbing

is only figurative.

One of the social dangers that psychopathic individuals

perpetuate is that oftentimes, especially if they're

brighter than average or perhaps very intelligent,

that they can fool individuals into believing

that they are quite sincere and are being quite honest.

ROBERT STACK: Even psychopaths who

murder, such a serial killer John Wayne Gacy,

might stand next to you in line at the post office

without drawing your attention.

John Wayne Gacy is an interesting case in Chicago.

A respectable, responsible figure,

he was a clown at children's parties

and active in the political party of his time,

photographed with the president and the president's wife.

But all the while this was going on,

he was systematically luring into his house

and then hideously torturing and killing young men

and then burying them under his home.

ROBERT STACK: Ted Bundy also appeared

to be a pillar of society.

At various times before his arrest and execution,

he was a counselor on a rape crisis hotline,

a campaign aide to Washington Governor Dan Evans,

and in 1972, Ted Bundy was named Mr. Up and Coming Republican.

Two very well-known journalists describe Ted Bundy,

for example, as a kind of alien life

form mimicking the behavior of real human beings.

A lot of psychopaths don't just kill individuals.

They're not content with that.

A lot of psychopaths run countries.

I see no fundamental difference between someone like Ted Bundy

and someone like Adolph Hitler, who

simply used very different techniques

for very similar ends.

All that mattered to them was control and domination,

in the one case of a single isolated individual,

in another of an entire nation.

And the ruthless annihilation of millions meant nothing.

The most destructive psychopaths

are those very few who achieve and hold

onto absolute political power.

The force of authority combined with a diabolical mind almost

inevitably leads to an epic and horrifying rampage.

In these rare home movies, Adolf Hitler

appears no more threatening than a prosperous Bavarian country

gentleman, a friend of dogs and small children.

And yet, Hitler was certainly the most

heinous psychopath of all time.

What drove Hitler to systematically

murder six million Jews and decimate most of Europe?

One of the more common prevalent theories today

is that there's a lack of bonding between the parent

and the child in the very early years.

The sociopath grows up feeling unloved, out of control.

And when he grows up, he has intense need

for control over other people.

ROBERT STACK: Hitler's father was 52

years old when Hitler was born.

Many believe his physical and emotional abuse virtually

destroyed his son's self-esteem.

As an adult, Adolf Hitler felt compelled

to subjugate millions to avenge his own deep feelings

of inferiority.

Psychopaths kill because that is the ultimate act

of humiliation and dominance that

shows their total power and control

over another human being.

It's the ultimate achievement of their psychopathic dreams.

[speaking german]

ROBERT STACK: Amidst the wreckage and misery

that he unleashed on Europe, Hitler

displayed the psychopath's most chilling trait, a total absence

of empathy for his victims.

For the psychopath, the world is

a smorgasbord from which he can select

whatever food he wants to eat.

There is no reciprocity.

There's no empathy for who he victimizes.

It is something that he intentionally does.

And it's choices that he makes day in

and day out as to who he will manipulate.

[crowd cheering]

ROBERT STACK: More recently, Iraqi president Saddam Hussein

ordered the invasion of Kuwait, the latest

episode in a political career marked

by bloodletting and treachery.

Saddam has an extremely dangerous personality.

But he is not crazy in the sense of being

committable to a mental institution.

This is the kind of person, in a court

of law, who would not be considered not

guilty by reason of insanity.

But the recommendation of the examining psychiatrist

would undoubtedly be to throw away the key.

ROBERT STACK: Saddam Hussein grew up

in an impoverished almost medieval village that lacked

electricity and running water.

He was frequently beaten by his stepfather, kept out of school,

and forced to help support his family

by stealing chickens and sheep.

Like Hitler, Hussein exploited a turbulent political climate

to legitimize his personal need to dominate and control others.

Along the way, what he learned and what was reinforced

regularly was that violence is the key to power.

[gunshots]

ROBERT STACK: During the 1960s and '70s,

Hussein methodically eliminated political rivals, torturing

and murdering thousands.

By July of 1979, Hussein inspired

so much fear that he was able to gain the presidency simply

by asking for it.

Within days, Hussein summoned his leading supporters

to a meeting, where he charged a number of potential rivals

with treason.

This crude video footage was smuggled out of Iraq

and shows several of the accused being led from the meeting.

After that meeting, Hussein forced those not identified

as conspirators to execute their former colleagues.

A striking example of the dangers of criticizing Saddam

occurred in 1982.

The war with Iran that Saddam had initiated

was going very badly.

And Saddam decided they had to stop it.

But by now Khomeini was obsessed with Saddam said

there would be no peace until Saddam

was deposed or stepped down.

Saddam called a cabinet meeting, asked his cabinet, what shall

we do?

Khomeini insists I step down.

To a man, of course, the cabinet said you must stay on,

we need your leadership.

Saddam then said, no, no, no, I want your frank, candid,

and creative suggestions.

His Oxford-educated minister of health, a Dr. Ibrahim,

took him seriously and made a rather shrewd suggestion.

Why, he suggested, don't we have you

step down temporarily, Saddam, until our goal of peace

is established?

And then you can resume the presidency.

As the story is told, Saddam thanked him for his candor

and then had him arrested.

The minister's wife pled with Saddam

to return her husband to her.

He promised her that he would.

As best as I can tell, the only promise he ever kept.

The next day, he returned her husband

to her in a black canvas bag chopped into pieces.

ROBERT STACK: With his critics effectively silenced,

Hussein launched his ill-fated invasion of Kuwait.

When he ultimately surrendered, Hussein

promised to terminate production of all chemical

and nuclear weapons.

Subsequent United Nations inspections confirmed

that Hussein was lying.

If one were to strip world leaders and politicians

of narcissistic characters, the ranks

would be perilously thinned.

We must always be alert to that fusion

between that personal drive for power,

unconstrained by conscience, when

it meets a wounded population.

That has repetitively over history

led to some of the most violent episodes

that have scarred our planet.

History has shown that political psychopaths

will not mellow into wise and magnanimous leaders.

Most, like Adolf Hitler, perish in the flames they help ignite.

Some, like Idi Amin, are deposed and live

a quiet retirement in exile.

A few, such as Joseph Stalin and the Soviet Union,

die of old age with their iron grip still strong.

The ultimate fate of Saddam Hussein remains a question.

When we return, a case study of a different kind--

the female diabolical mind.

[music playing]

It may not surprise you that 95% of all serial killers

and mass murderers are men.

As one expert has said, if you're

looking for a diabolical gender, it is the male.

There are, however, a few diabolical women.

Typically these sociopaths conceal

their true nature behind a veil of tenderness and warmth.

Frank and Marie Hilley were high school sweethearts.

They were married in 1950.

And the life they built together was

the envy of friends and neighbors in Anniston, Alabama.

Here we go.

ROBERT STACK: By 1971, Frank had worked

his way up from shipping clerk to supervisor

at the local foundry.

The Hilleys had two children, Carol, 11, and Mike, 18.

Aside from her tendency to overspend,

Marie was a cheerful and supportive partner,

by all appearances the perfect wife and mother.

Well, let's eat.

ROBERT STACK: But appearances deceive.

MICHAEL HILLEY: I first started getting sick when I was

18, a lot of stomach problems.

And I started having those problems about two or three

months after an insurance policy was

taken out on me for $25,000.

Sweetheart, you're not feeling any better, are you?

Oh.

Oh, honey, you are still just burning up.

My stomach hurts.

Does it still?

ROBERT STACK: Mike's doctors are unable to diagnose or cure

his persistent stomach ailments.

Don't know what could be wrong.

ROBERT STACK: Curiously, once Mike left home for college,

the symptoms disappeared.

And curiously, with Mike away from home,

his father developed a mysterious stomach ailment.

Once again, doctors are unable to find a cause

or provide a cure.

At the same time, Frank and Marie's marriage

was falling apart.

MICHAEL HILLEY: My father called me one day

and had something he wanted to talk to me about.

He had come home from work early one day

and had found my mother in bed with one of her employers.

[dogs barking]

I think my father was going to divorce her.

Pop, whatever you do--

MICHAEL HILLEY: And I think that was one circumstance that she

just wouldn't allow to happen.

I love you too, Pop.

She placed a high value on prominence and reputation.

And to go through a divorce would have destroyed that.

ROBERT STACK: Within two weeks of confiding in Mike,

Frank Hilley's mysterious disorder suddenly worsened.

Frank was admitted to the local hospital.

Marie rarely left his side, tenderly

feeding and caring for him.

No more.

I'm so sick and poorly.

You've got to eat, Frank.

MICHAEL HILLEY: I remember thinking to myself,

maybe this is the catalyst that will put them back together.

Don't you talk that way.

MICHAEL HILLEY: Maybe his illness will

bring them closer together.

Frank, I am here for you.

And together we are going to make it.

ROBERT STACK: Frank Hilley died on May 25, 1975.

The official cause of death was hepatitis.

Nobody suspected the truth.

What's important to understand is

that these people, who seem so loving, love in a very odd way.

The sociopath will love you for what

you do for them not for who you are and what you are.

Whenever you become no longer necessary to their lives,

they will throw you away.

And if It has to be through murder, so be it.

ROBERT STACK: Marie spent little time mourning for her husband.

The proceeds from Frank's life insurance

total more than $30,000.

Marie quickly refurnished her house, bought a new car,

and draped herself in expensive jewels and fashions.

When the money ran out, Marie kept spending.

We became aware that Marie was having financial problems.

There were various businesses filing complaints on her

for insufficient checks that she had written

to cover various purchases.

There were some deals with automobiles

that she had made that fell through and weren't paid for.

Just a lot of little things that began to add

up to flag our attention.

She owed more than she had.

She couldn't pay her bills.

My mother's finances were in terrible shape.

I began to receive phone calls from creditors

wanting the money.

So she was getting all of these things with the promise

to her creditors that I would pay for them.

ROBERT STACK: Four years after her father's death,

18-year-old Carol Hilley suddenly became sick.

Nobody thought to connect her illness

to Marie's financial problems.

But nobody knew that Marie had insured

Carol's life for $25,000.

MICHAEL HILLEY: During the time that everyone was getting sick,

I think the time between those illnesses

was sufficient enough not to cause anybody

to question what was going on.

However, in each individual case,

I think someone, a relative in the family

suspected that something was going on.

And like me later on, something is, but what?

For you to try to tell me--

ROBERT STACK: Shortly after Carol became ill,

Mike returned to Anniston to confront

Maria about her overspending.

No.

We are going to the bank and cash in Daddy's stocks

so that you can pay me the money that you owe me.

I won't do anything like that.

That is all the money I have in the world,

and I will not spend it.

Momma, the creditors are calling me three times a day.

ROBERT STACK: Mike was now living in Florida.

He had a wife and young baby of his own.

And Marie's appetite for expensive possessions

threatened his family.

Mother--

MICHAEL HILLEY: I said, if I have to pick you up

and physically put you in the car, we're going to the bank.

There no questions.

Right after breakfast, which she cooked,

I got about as sick as I'd ever been in my life.

I'm so sorry.

Momma, I don't want to stay here anymore.

I know darling. I--

ROBERT STACK: Mike recovered quickly

and returned to Florida, but Carol's

condition steadily worsened.

Well, last night I talked to my friend Ellen,

who's the registered nurse.

And she said they have this new medicine at her clinic

that she thinks might help you.

Can you get me some?

Well I--

ROBERT STACK: Carol was in and out

of the hospital for six months and finally became

paralyzed from the waist down.

The only thing is--

ROBERT STACK: Still, doctors were

unable to diagnose her illness.

You promise you won't tell a soul?

I promise I won't tell anybody.

All right then, baby, I'll give you some.

Now let's see here.

You need to turn over for me because I'm going to have to do

like an injection in your hip.

MICHAEL HILLEY: Carol became increasingly sicker and weaker.

Although I didn't see her at that time,

I only heard from my mother and my aunt.

OK, sweetie, this is going to sting a little bit.

MICHAEL HILLEY: I remember my aunt

telling me that my mother had Carol in seclusion,

would not let anybody see her, would

not let anyone talk to her.

And if something didn't happen, Carol was going to die.

All right now, sweetheart, I really

think that will help you.

I do.

When we find a woman who is a sociopath,

we find an individual who leads a double life,

who fools and manipulates family and friends.

No one suspects.

In fact, she's often the last person you'd suspect at all.

Well, how can I help you, detective?

ROBERT STACK: On September 20, 1979,

Marie's facade of innocence began to fracture.

--checks that you've written--

ROBERT STACK: While at the hospital tending Carol,

Marie was arrested for passing bad checks.

There's one for $5,000 that you

ROBERT STACK: Anniston police didn't realize that the arrest

probably saved Carol's life.

There's another for $1,000 that you wrote for a used car.

One of Carol's friends at that time

told me that she had visited Carol that day,

and Carol had mentioned something about injections

that my mother had given her.

Now just look straight ahead for me.

Would you?

Um hm, That's good.

ROBERT STACK: Mike demanded that the hospital

staff re-examine Carol.

DOCTOR: How did you sleep last night?

OK.

ROBERT STACK: Doctors checked for a telltale sign

of arsenic poisoning, unmistakable white lines

across the fingernails.

DOCTOR: Did you eat breakfast?

CAROL HILLEY: Yeah.

The world as I knew it at that point just fell apart.

Everything that I had been taught to rely on

was totally in question.

Everything that my mother had taught me--

right from wrong--

I had to go back and re-examine.

ROBERT STACK: Mike Hilley was forced

to confront the unspeakable.

His mother probably murdered his father.

[music playing]

In October of 1979, at Mike's request,

and surprisingly with Marie's permission,

Frank Hilley's body was exhumed for a second autopsy.

Marie quietly slipped out of town

three weeks before the autopsy results were released.

The revised cause of death, arsenic poisoning.

On January 11, 1980, an arrest warrant

was issued, charging Marie with the murder of her husband.

But by then, Marie Hilley had disappeared.

At about the same time, 700 miles from Anniston,

a romance blossomed in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

Marie Hilley had resurfaced, flaunting a new identity--

Robbi Hannon.

John, could I have a light?

Oh, sure.

ROBERT STACK: John Holman, recently

arrived from New Hampshire, was pleased to meet her.

So, Robbi, right?

Um hm.

What brings you to sunny Florida?

Oh, just wanted to take a little vacation,

get away from the past.

JOHN HOLMAN: Yeah, I understand that.

Where are you from?

Oh, just a little town in Texas.

JOHN HOLMAN: Texas?

ROBERT STACK: Robbi told John she was a widow

and was soon to inherit a vast estate.

JOHN HOLMAN: Married?

ROBERT STACK: She also revealed she had a life-threatening

brain cancer. JOHN HOLMAN: Oh, I'm sorry.

But, hey, enough about me.

Well, how about you?

There's not much to tell, I'm afraid.

Sociopaths tend to be very good actors.

They know how to play the script of life.

And they know how to capitalize upon the needs

and vulnerabilities of others.

New Hampshire, all that snow.

ROBERT STACK: The Robbi Hannon character was skillfully

and deliberately created.

She was attractive.

She was available.

She was going to be rich.

And she might die sometime in the future.

The possibilities seemed endless.

Robbi and John were married in May of 1981.

She found work as a secretary and was

welcomed into the quiet social fabric

of Marlow, New Hampshire.

Hi, Esther, how are you?

John Holman, good to see you again.

Thank you.

And who do we have here?

Pastor, I'd like for you to meet my wife, Robbi Holman.

Very pleased to meet you, Robbi.

Well, the pleasure is all mine, Pastor.

ROBERT STACK: By all accounts, John and Robbi shared

a quiet and contented marriage.

Then in September of 1982, Robbi informed John that her brain

cancer had worsened.

She flew alone to Texas for special medical tests.

John Holman never saw Robbi again.

He got a call sometime later from an individual

who identified herself as Robbi Hannon's

twin sister Teri Martin.

She also advised Mr. Holman that Robbi had died,

and the body had been donated to science.

And all the arrangements had been made so there

was nothing for him to do.

ROBERT STACK: Several weeks later, Teri Martin, Robbi's

sister, came to New Hampshire.

She brought an emotional farewell letter

Robbi had written to John just before she died.

Teri?

You must be John.

I'm Teri Martin, Robbi's sister.

Oh, I'm sorry, John, I thought you knew we were twins.

I guess I knew, but I had no idea--

--identical twins.

Why, if it weren't for the hair--

ROBERT STACK: Marie Hilley had lost 20 pounds, dyed her hair

blonde, and boldly returned to New Hampshire

as her own twin sister.

I'm so sorry we're having to meet

under circumstances like this.

ROBERT STACK: John Holman accepted Teri at face value.

She moved in with him, and they lived together for two months.

However, some of John's neighbors

were suspicious and attempted to verify Teri's story.

Nothing checked out.

[thunder rumbles]

Marie Hilley was ultimately trapped

by an unlikely coincidence.

Her age and description just happened

to match one of the FBI's most wanted fugitives.

On January 18, 1983, Teri Martin was taken

into custody for questioning.

After she was picked up, they had no idea

that she was actually Marie Hilley

and that she was wanted in Alabama for murder

and attempting to poison her daughter.

Once she was picked up, then they've learned who, in fact,

she really was.

ROBERT STACK: Marie Hilley was sentenced

to life plus 20 years.

In the winter of 1987, she escaped from prison

only to die seven days later from prolonged

exposure to the cold.

Marie Hilley was 53 years old.

[music playing]

MICHAEL HILLEY: My mother had a lot of charisma and charm,

and she knew how to use that.

She had the ability to make you believe

what she was saying, even if you knew

that it was an outright lie.

She had the ability to make you believe that you were the most

important thing in her life.

And that could have been the furthest thing from the truth.

ROBERT STACK: What inner forces polluted

Marie Hilley's natural bonds with her husband and children?

How could a wife and mother regard her own family

members as little more than economic resources

to be exploited?

Like so many diabolical personalities,

Marie Hilley remains a mystery.

When we return, a disturbing face-to-face confrontation

with a diabolical mind, an interview with convicted

murderer G. Daniel Walker.

INTERVIEWER: How long is your rap sheet?

I would think the current one would probably

be about 29 to 30 pages.

INTERVIEWER: 29 to 30 pages?

Yeah.

INTERVIEWER: Charles Manson's is only five.

Well, he was just a killer.

[music playing]

ROBERT STACK: Words, collections of letters,

some bearing an emotional charge,

others as neutralizer as air, perhaps

providing a window to the inner workings

of the diabolical mind.

How you doing, Steve?

Eh, fairly good.

OK, remember the instructions now.

Each time you see--

ROBERT STACK: Based on test responses

to emotional and non-emotional words,

Dr. Robert Hare in Canada believes

that this normal subject can be distinguished

from a psychopath.

Sensitive electronic instruments show that a normal person

responds faster to emotionally charged words

than to words that are neutral.

But psychopaths do not make this distinction.

Dr. Hare believes this may help explain why psychopaths

don't have a conscience.

Most people talk about conscience in terms

of something like an inner voice talking to oneself,

well I shouldn't do that.

You know, mommy said I shouldn't do it.

I shouldn't do it.

And after awhile, it becomes sort of automatic.

We do that.

We refer to that as conscience.

I would say that the psychopath probably

doesn't have the same sort of inner voice

that most people have.

It may be that the language processes or the ability

of language to actually control behavior

is different in the psychopath than it is in other people.

ROBERT STACK: Dr. Hare's experiment is just one

attempt to unravel the most vexing mystery

of the diabolical mind--

are certain people born as psychopaths

or do they become psychopaths?

If I were to cast my vote in one direction or the other,

I would probably say that it's more likely

that they're born, not made.

I think that there are fairly strong genetic contributions

to all personality traits, including

the personality traits that make up psychopathy.

I think it's pretty clear that while people may have

an inherited susceptibility to certain kinds

of violent crimes, that individuals

who go on to produce these kinds of abominable crimes

are created.

They're shaped by their families.

They're shaped by their societies.

They model the culture heroes in their civilization.

And they go on to commit these abominable acts.

Experts are still years away from understanding

the mind of the psychopath.

For a close-up look at the baffling enigma of such

a personality, "Unsolved Mysteries"

traveled to Northern California to interview convicted murderer

G. Daniel Walker.

While he is not a serial killer, Walker is, without doubt,

a diabolical mind.

At the time of the interview, G. Daniel Walker

was probably the only prisoner in California

with his own courthouse workspace,

including a computer, privileges resulting

from a lawsuit against the state prison system.

Over a three-year period, Walker was driven several times

a week to the Alameda County Courthouse, where he prepared

still more lawsuits against judges,

district attorneys, journalists, and corrections officials.

He is almost as much trouble inside prison as out.

Good morning, all.

A funny thing happened to me on the way to this interview.

I got arrested, put in chains, and I'm

not the defendant in this case.

ROBERT STACK: Walker projects a buoyant confident manner.

This amiable posture belies the fraud, armed robberies,

and murder, which have kept him institutionalized

for most of the past 35 years.

G. Daniel Walker served time in the late 1960s

for armed robbery and the attempted murder

of an Illinois policeman.

In 1972, he escaped.

Three months later he was arrested

in California for the murder of advertising

executive William Ashlock.

After the killing, Walker allegedly

raped Ashlock's fiance, all the while

proclaiming his love for her.

He then terrorized her into helping him cover up the crime.

Walker defended himself in court,

claiming Ashlock was the victim of a mafia hit squad.

Walker insisted that he had only helped to cover up the murder

to protect Ashlock's fiance.

He lost his case and received a sentence of 17 years

to life in prison.

While Walker insists he is innocent of the murder charge,

he openly boasts of having committed

more than 300 other crimes for which he has neither

being charged nor tried.

Do you feel that you are pretty much by the system

where you belong, from the standpoint of--

Yes, yes.

I am convicted of murder.

I've always denied that I was the one that

did the actual shooting in that peculiar case,

but I've taken the witness stand.

ROBERT STACK: Walker was interviewed

by former FBI criminal profiler Robert Ressler.

--in concealing the crime.

And given the same set of facts, I would do it again.

How long is your rap sheet?

I would think the current one would probably

be about 29 to 30 pages.

ROBERT RESSLER: 29 to 30 pages?

Yeah.

ROBERT RESSLER: Charles Manson's is only five.

Well, he was just a killer.

But yeah, at the same time, I've

heard you say that your criminal record, your rap sheet,

your FBI record, whatever, does not certainly

hold all that you have done.

Definitely not.

No, the body of work of, you know, the criminal enterprise

has been much greater.

And let's hope that I've been successful in something.

See, you're meeting a failed criminal right now.

And you're very happy to be meeting me as a failed

criminal, because if you were meeting me

as a successful criminal, that means that I'd

have the gun pointed at you.

And you would suddenly have this fecal matter--

ROBERT RESSLER: A person like him can be extremely dangerous.

He doesn't buy our system.

He does not buy our society's rules as we establish them.

And again, that's the mark of a psychopath

or a sociopath is that they make their own rules in life.

You have had so many opportunities

to stay out of jail.

And yet, you keep coming back in.

Well then again, you see prison as not been successful.

And just because you're in prison

doesn't mean you can't be successful.

I think Solzhenitsyn said the greatest freedom that a man

enjoys is being in prison because they feed

your breakfast in the morning.

You can go out and kill one of your cellmates,

and they'll still feed you lunch and give you sheets

for your bed in the evening.

The psychopathic individual will

use several different defenses.

One of those is rationalization.

He will come up with very elaborate explanations

that when thought about very carefully make no sense.

Institutions are not that unsatisfying.

You've got to remember, I don't have

to go out and kill any cows.

They're going to do all that for me.

I don't half go out and cook any meals.

I don't have to wash any dishes.

They're going to do all those things for me.

So, the institution becomes a wife by nature.

They're going to wash my dirty socks for me.

They're going to do all of the things

that I don't necessarily like to do.

So, if that's becoming institutionalized,

I'm happily married.

ROBERT RESSLER: If you had the option, would you leave?

I've had the option to escape.

I have escaped, as you know.

Juries have tried me and never found me guilty of escape.

I've always represented myself in those cases.

There is a certain excitement, when you have escaped

from a major penitentiary and you know that the red lights

are right behind you.

You know the sirens are going.

There is a certain excitement that you

just-- it's better than sex.

So yes, there is that possibility that there

may be the 14th escape.

ROBERT RESSLER: You know, I've heard

that before from other people. - Oh, it's exciting.

ROBERT RESSLER: Yeah, yeah, the excitement

is a high factor in maintaining a life the way you have.

And oftentimes, you'll find that the people that

are pursuing you will lose the scent,

so you have to go back and show them,

no, no, you've got to turn this way, fellows,

you know, to keep the chase going.

And I've done that.

They will draw the interview into what

we call a narcissistic twinship, where they will try

to do things to show in what ways

they are similar to the interviewer.

And oftentimes the interviewer is both

flattered and caught off guard.

You know, the minute you have taken down a perpetrator,

and you've taken him down, that you guys

get together and give the high fives

and say "good job we did today.

Oh, that was a great job."

Well, the criminals do the same thing.

The minute that you've outwitted them,

you get together and give the high fives.

You go, oh, we got over on them.

ROBERT RESSLER: Are you saying there's just a fine line

between you and I then?

Very fine line, and you know it.

ROBERT RESSLER: Do you have any true feelings of remorse?

Well, I would have to say, take

a different tangent on that.

Do I have remorse for the things that put me there?

We have to remember that the crime that I'm in prison for I

defended myself.

So I'm the one that lost that case.

So I have remorse that I didn't handle that case

in a little different way.

As far as helping--

REID MELOY: The psychopathic individual will engage

in a psychology of reversals.

Pain originates in other people.

Problems originate in other people.

And responsibility for our behavior

is really other people's responsibility.

ROBERT RESSLER: Do you feel that you

are a truly dangerous person from the standpoint

of committing violent acts?

Only if you've done something wrong to me.

I think what you're referring to is

the fact that I imported two--

ROBERT STACK: From prison, Walker somehow managed

to have a highly toxic poison imported

into the United States.

A deputy district attorney who had once prosecuted Walker

became terrified that he might be Walker's target.

--system, where it can't be traced.

So when suddenly the system discovered

that I had 2.2 pounds of poison in the United States,

they went crazy.

Like what does G. Daniel Walker want with this poison?

Well, the little lady that lives in Dubuque, Iowa that

has an antique collection that has never heard of the name G.

Daniel Walker knew that I didn't have that poison for her,

so she had no concern.

There were a lot of deputy attorney generals,

a lot of United States--

assistant United States attorneys, that suddenly

became very uncomfortable.

And there were a lot of judges that became uncomfortable.

And they started a major investigation.

They indicted me, a two count indictment

for importing this poison.

They spent about $1,300,000 working up a prosecution.

And then they folded their tent because they found out

that I hadn't broken the law.

Did you use the poison?

They've never found any sufficient evidence to charge

me with having used it.

But it certainly cause one deputy attorney general

in the state of California to go through his cabinets

and take all ingestible items out--

toothpaste and liquor.

And finally his wife said, well gee, it

could be in the carpets.

So they recarpeted their home.

And finally they sold the home and moved.

ROBERT RESSLER: So in other words,

creating paranoia in a person can

be oftentimes even more insidious than just

making verbal threats.

It's a better gamesmanship than doing physical violence,

because fear lives with you 24 hours a day.

Fear never goes away.

If you kill somebody, that's over.

ROBERT RESSLER: --or attempt to kill somebody.

Yes.

If you've hurt them, you know, and as long

as the pain is there, that's--

but fear is a pain that lives with you forever.

Since 1977, G. Daniel Walker has

been denied parole seven times.

If the state does grant him parole on the murder charge,

Walker still faces a 50-year term

on federal charges stemming from credit card frauds he

committed from inside prison.

When we return, FBI and Florida investigators track

an elusive diabolical killer.

[music playing]

On May 26, 1989, Joan Rogers and her daughters

Michelle, 17, and Christe, 14, left their farm

in Willshire, Ohio for a long-anticipated vacation

in Florida.

They visited the zoo in Jacksonville

then drove to Kennedy Space Center, Disney World,

and the Epcot Center before arriving

in Tampa on June 1, a Thursday.

Boy, long trip.

Michelle, would you--

ROBERT STACK: There, the Rogers' carefree vacation came

to a sudden and horrifying end.

I knew they were supposed to be back maybe on Saturday,

Sunday, maybe a Monday.

But Tuesday morning, I got a little concerned about it,

and I called her mom, and she hadn't even called her.

And I knew something had happened then because she's

not the type that don't call.

I just figured she couldn't get a hold of me.

And that's when I think I reported them missing.

ROBERT STACK: On the same day Hal Rogers expected his family

to return home, the bodies of three unidentified women

floated to the surface of Tampa Bay.

Each had been bound with tape, weighted with a cinder block,

and dumped into the Bay still alive.

All three had apparently been sexually assaulted.

The victims were Joan, Michelle, and Christe Rogers.

Once again, authorities were confronted

with a grim harvest of an unknown psychopathic killer.

Male serial killers are so difficult to apprehend.

They kill strangers, unknown motive, no crime scene,

no fingerprints, no other physical evidence,

usually only a dump site.

And that is the modus operandi of the male serial killer.

The murders of Joan, Michelle, and Christe

were classic psychopathic killings, cunningly conceived

and executed without remorse.

The maddening scarcity of evidence

has limited authorities to assumptions and speculation.

Without a name, face, or fingerprint,

police have attempted to construct

the profile of a killer.

It is at best a slow, frustrating process.

Tampa Bay was the final stop on the Rogers' itinerary

before they returned to Ohio.

Christe, wasn't that last place we went neat?

Oh, yes, it was.

Did you love it?

ROBERT STACK: Joan, Michelle, and Christe

checked into their motel around noon on June 1.

Within hours, fate and happenstance

brought them into the range of a lurking killer.

We believe that they were victims of opportunity.

What that means basically is he surveilled them.

He knew that they were the ones that he wanted to approach.

And he had planned this, but it wasn't that much in advance,

because the circumstances of their travels

wouldn't lend to that.

ROBERT STACK: Authorities believe that in order

to bring Joan and her daughters under his control,

the killer first had to overcome their natural suspicions.

We feel that the offender presented himself in a very

non-threatening manner, something where he made it

enticing or inviting to them, struck up a conversation,

and that in his physical appearance,

he was probably pleasing to look at, someone that

they felt comfortable with.

--appears to be the car.

It's a two-door Olds, blue in color.

Give me a photograph of that side of the car there.

ROBERT STACK: On June the 8th, the Rogers' car

was found at a boat ramp near their motel.

Inside was a sinister hint that the women had been entrapped.

Photograph that note on the front seat.

We found a note in that vehicle that indicated

directions for the victims to go to the boat ramp

and to meet someone there with something that's blue

slash white.

That would lead us to believe that they went there

to meet a blue and white boat.

ROBERT STACK: Police are convinced

that Joan Rogers and the two girls

were lured to their deaths, probably

by the promise of an innocent boat ride,

and probably by more than one assailant.

- All right. - Hi.

How are you doing today?

Good.

Let me give you a hand.

They got on the boat with this person or these people.

And at that time, I'm sure they felt very safe with them.

And that was the killer's plan.

MAN: Sit back.

This is terrific.

This is great, huh?

CINDRA CUMMINGS: He knew what he was

going to do those victims before they ever got on his boat.

MAN: We're ready. - OK.

MAN: Let's go.

We think a person like this will kill again,

in all probability has killed again.

However we think that he was surprised

that the bodies surfaced as quickly as they did.

And in his killing subsequent to this,

he will change his manner and his method

of disposal of any bodies.

The psychological profile of the killer

has provided investigators with some insights

into this ugly crime but has failed

to pinpoint a specific suspect.

Police have only a few admittedly slim leads

that might result in the capture of this confident and ruthless

psychopath.

A guest at the motel on the day of the Rogers' death

reported seeing a young well-groomed white male

loading a cooler into a white boat

with dark blue racing stripes.

The boat was towed by a dark colored

Chevy Blazer or Ford Bronco.

Efforts to locate this person have so far been unsuccessful.

[music playing]

It is easy to feel overwhelmed and frightened by the

many faces of the sociopath.

The immediacy of television makes

us feel as though every murder, every horror,

is happening right down the block.

In reality, violent psychopaths are an extreme rarity.

And fortunately few of us will ever encounter one.

There is still much to learn about this disturbing

phenomenon in terms of identifying it, predicting

it, and preventing it.

Thank you for joining us.

And please join us next time for another edition

of "Unsolved Mysteries."

[music playing]