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1
00:00:00,010 --> 00:00:02,590
She actually said that
she thought it was a body?
2
00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,790
Yes. Yeah, she did.
3
00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,030
He told me he'd stolen some of your
jewellery. He wouldn't tell me why.
4
00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:09,870
Joanna... she got pregnant.
5
00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:11,790
Thea's now 38.
6
00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,590
What have they done? What
did you tell them to do?
7
00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,590
He fell asleep smoking.
Wouldn't have known a thing.
8
00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,910
OK, we've got something!
9
00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:21,600
Just there!
10
00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,230
Nicholas Howard Whitmore, known as Nick.
11
00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,830
My wife... What have you done to her?
12
00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,880
I don't know where your wife is, Ray.
13
00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,310
I didn't do it.
14
00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,360
But I know who did.
15
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,320
♪ All we do is hide away
16
00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,910
♪ All we do is, All we do is hide away
17
00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,800
♪ All we do is lie in wait
18
00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,790
♪ All we do is, All we do is lie in wait
19
00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,470
♪ I've been upside-down
20
00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,270
♪ I don't wanna be the right way round.
21
00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:12,840
♪ Can't find paradise on the ground ♪
22
00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,700
Ah, Mrs Slater. If you'd
like to follow me...
23
00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:40,630
- Mr Slater?
- Yeah.
24
00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,150
Er, both of us, we're her sons.
25
00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:44,950
I wanted to tell you what's happening.
26
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,590
Your mother's being released now
27
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,990
- and has been bailed to
return here in a month. - OK.
28
00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,790
And so, has she been charged
with anything, or...?
29
00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,550
- No, not yet.
- Right. I see.
30
00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,070
And, my father... Is-Is
he...? What's happening there?
31
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,190
Your father went before
a magistrate's court
32
00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,190
a couple of hours ago and was then
transferred to East Bridge Prison.
33
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,430
He's being held in remand after
being charged with two murders.
34
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,510
- No.
- Has he confessed?
35
00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,630
All I can tell you, I'm afraid.
36
00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,670
He... killed two people?
37
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,830
Like I said, that's all
I know at the moment.
38
00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,390
So... I think what would be best
39
00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,240
is if you just took your mum home.
40
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:25,550
All right, Mrs Slater?
41
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,750
Oh, Matthew, I've been so scared.
42
00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,470
It's Les, Mum.
43
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,720
Um, the car's outside.
44
00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,800
Mr Slater?
45
00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,550
In cases like this,
46
00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,310
it might be worth trying to find somewhere
quiet for a few days to take everyone.
47
00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,430
Till the papers and TV settle down a bit.
48
00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,640
It's not... gonna be easy for you.
49
00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,030
A witness saw a man's car
leaving at four in the morning.
50
00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,510
He drove there in his own car?
51
00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,150
He says he parked half
a mile away but, er...
52
00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:03,950
Where is he now?
53
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,240
He just rang me from the police station.
54
00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,220
But it's fine.
55
00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,190
If they do link the fire to him,
he's not going to name anyone.
56
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,670
As long as we can look after his family.
57
00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,240
He has a wife, two kids.
58
00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,280
How much?
59
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:24,590
Two million.
60
00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:27,640
And how much of that are you getting?
61
00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,400
Or he just gives them your name
and gets a reduced sentence.
62
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,590
I know people, Asil.
63
00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,150
The only reason I didn't go
to them to deal with Fenwick
64
00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,700
is cos I thought the
police was watching me.
65
00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,220
But they're not watching me now.
66
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,660
You knew what I was when you married me.
67
00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,720
In fact, you liked it.
68
00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,350
You should have called, Dad. I
would've come and picked you up.
69
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,400
No, it's all right.
70
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,550
Bus came almost immediately.
71
00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:22,870
What did the police say?
72
00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,190
Oh, they were very nice.
73
00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,600
They said that... that, perhaps,
if I offered to pay it all back...
74
00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,340
.. then... I might escape
a custodial sentence.
75
00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,510
I might need a day or two.
76
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,030
Sort things out with Grace.
77
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:41,380
And the girls.
78
00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,120
And the church.
79
00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:47,900
Lots to sort out.
80
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,270
Excuse me, mate.
81
00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,590
Sorry, but have you seen
this woman on the paper?
82
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:57,830
There's a number there as well, mate.
83
00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,390
Thanks. Thanks very much.
84
00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,310
- Cheers. Ta-ta.
- You're welcome.
85
00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,620
Come on, mate. We're both exhausted.
86
00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:10,830
Let's go home and get some rest.
87
00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,380
No, you can stop if you
want to. I'm staying.
88
00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,160
Excuse me.
89
00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,420
Have you seen this woman on your travels?
90
00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,760
You still say you didn't kill
them, but you know who did?
91
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,480
Yes.
92
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,480
And are you gonna tell us?
93
00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,560
Yes.
94
00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:42,000
I-I-I want to be moved to a
prison near my boy, Leslie.
95
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,230
And I want a doctor.
96
00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:47,420
I-I don't feel, um...
97
00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:49,950
I don't feel well.
98
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,470
Well, we can certainly
look into all that, Eric.
99
00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,270
But first we need a name.
100
00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,200
What?
101
00:05:57,280 --> 00:05:59,190
I'm sure you understand this.
102
00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,590
It might look like you're just...
you're just making things up.
103
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,760
Just, um, toying with us.
104
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,400
Y-Y-You get me what I've asked for...
105
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,360
.. and then I'll tell you.
106
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:26,550
What do you think?
107
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,430
I think I'm struggling very hard
not to punch him in the face.
108
00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,350
- You think it's bollocks?
- Yeah. I think it's bollocks.
109
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,870
- Except whatever name he gives us...
- Which he won't.
110
00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,430
It would be easy enough to discount
very quickly, so what's the point?
111
00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,350
You said it.
112
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,110
He's yanking our chain.
113
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,790
Having a bit of fun.
114
00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:47,070
He's had all this... this
power for the last 40 years,
115
00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:48,710
this secret only he's known.
116
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,240
And now, now it's all gone.
117
00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,870
Now all he's got to look forward to
is dying in some pissy prison cell
118
00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,160
with East End Arthur to hold his hand.
119
00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,600
I just...
120
00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:08,160
Last night, after we charged
him, I sat in my office and I...
121
00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,510
Oh, I dunno.
122
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,800
It just felt wrong.
123
00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:18,430
Of course it did.
124
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,310
We wanted him to admit it.
125
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,630
We wanted him to look us in the eye
126
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,150
and tell us that our work had
made it impossible for him to lie.
127
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,920
So we could go to Maureen Sullivan
and tell her that he'd confessed.
128
00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,280
Unfortunately, people like Eric Slater...
don't give a toss about stuff like that.
129
00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,790
Yeah, I think you're right.
130
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,260
But, let's, um, just
call his bluff, anyway.
131
00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:50,550
Then see what he says.
132
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,540
What do you think?
133
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,840
I reckon you're gonna do
whatever you want to do.
134
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,270
Um, we need to see the
Governor, please. Thank you.
135
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,110
Police investigating the
James Sullivan murder case
136
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,510
have arrested and charged a man...
137
00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,750
.. with two counts of
murder. The arrests...
138
00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,270
It's one of our rentals, but
it's vacant at the moment
139
00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,590
and it's in the middle of
nowhere. I'll text you the address.
140
00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,780
Bring Mum, obviously.
141
00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:38,480
Oh, no.
142
00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:49,430
She's in theatre.
143
00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,550
They're doing an emergency Caesarean.
144
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,710
Oh.
145
00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,150
What is it? What-What caused it?
146
00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:00,120
Is it connected in any way
to stress, or perhaps...?
147
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:02,940
They said not.
148
00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,800
All right.
149
00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,040
Can I wait with you?
150
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,790
If Mum comes out, I think you
ought to wait in the cafe.
151
00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,830
Of course.
152
00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,550
Excuse me. We're looking
for a missing person.
153
00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,830
- If you see her, can you
give us a call? - Yeah. Sure.
154
00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,630
Hey! I saw her yesterday.
155
00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:41,390
Where?
156
00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,030
Here.
157
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,220
Well... W-Was she OK?
158
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,590
Was she?
159
00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,940
- I'm really sorry, mate --
- Just tell me.
160
00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,000
She jumped.
161
00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:59,950
- What is it?
- Ah.
162
00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:02,760
Oh...
163
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,510
No.
164
00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:08,400
No!
165
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,280
Does she know about us?
166
00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,240
Yes.
167
00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:39,920
And, you know... she's always
wanted me to tell you about her.
168
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,200
Erm...
169
00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,880
How involved in... in her life were you?
170
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,040
How often did you... do you see her?
171
00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:58,830
Once a week.
172
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:00,880
Sometimes twice.
173
00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,230
For nearly four decades, you've
seen this woman twice a week?
174
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,390
My daughter, yes.
175
00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,750
That's more than you saw us.
176
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,790
Yes.
177
00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,710
I wasn't as present for
you as I should have been.
178
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,100
I completely accept that.
179
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:26,440
At some level, I was also scared...
180
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,760
.. that if I got too close
you'd see me, the real me...
181
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:35,750
.. and that was wrong.
182
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,360
And I'll regret the choices I
made for the rest of my life.
183
00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,950
- Baby's fine.
- Oh, Mum!
184
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:48,590
Four pounds, one ounce.
185
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,630
Ah, Caroline's in recovery.
186
00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:53,880
- The baby's in the special care
unit. She'd like to see you. - OK.
187
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,840
We should be so happy, Robert.
188
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,060
Our first grandchild.
189
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,630
Ah, so, er, we can get you into a prison
190
00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:32,270
which is, um, half an
hour from your son's home.
191
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,270
It has a good psychiatric department,
192
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,190
where we can get you properly assessed.
193
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,630
Make sure you're getting the right
help, if you co-operate with us now.
194
00:12:39,680 --> 00:12:43,360
If you start asking for other
stuff, um, this dialogue ends.
195
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,440
The process continues to
trial and... trust me...
196
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,870
.. on the evidence we have,
you will be convicted.
197
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:58,230
So, um, it is time to talk.
198
00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,510
Do you wanna...?
199
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,150
Resuming interview with Eric Slater.
200
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,120
Present: DCI Stuart, DS Khan,
Duty Solicitor Elise Hughes.
201
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,560
Time is... Er, it's 10:17.
202
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:22,300
It was Claire.
203
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,040
I'm sorry. Can you say that
again? Because I didn't hear you.
204
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,680
I said it was Claire, my wife.
205
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,080
It was Claire.
206
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:48,090
I met Claire at Hunter and Regis in 1969.
207
00:13:48,140 --> 00:13:51,210
They-They made air conditioning units.
208
00:13:51,260 --> 00:13:56,570
I worked in accounts and, um, she
was... she was in the typing pool.
209
00:13:56,620 --> 00:13:59,930
I-I'd never been very
good with the ladies.
210
00:13:59,980 --> 00:14:04,130
But I always felt very relaxed around her.
211
00:14:04,180 --> 00:14:06,850
We found the same things funny.
212
00:14:07,380 --> 00:14:12,700
Always had plenty to talk about and
one day, she just asked me out.
213
00:14:13,780 --> 00:14:16,880
A bit unconventional, but I didn't mind.
214
00:14:17,660 --> 00:14:21,820
Our first date was at the
Locarno, in Queen's Park.
215
00:14:23,060 --> 00:14:25,650
We kissed outside
216
00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:30,620
and I bought us saveloy and chips
from a takeaway in Townmead Road.
217
00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:36,530
Yeah, we courted for, er, a year or so
218
00:14:36,580 --> 00:14:39,810
and then got married, before
we moved to Dollis Hill.
219
00:14:39,860 --> 00:14:42,490
That's where I got the job
at, er, Arlingham House
220
00:14:42,540 --> 00:14:45,740
which was, er, which was round the corner.
221
00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:49,650
1971, er, that was.
222
00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:55,410
Yes, she-she wanted kids im-immediately
223
00:14:55,460 --> 00:14:58,810
because, you know, we were
neither of us spring chickens.
224
00:14:58,860 --> 00:15:03,260
Which, I did too, very much.
225
00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:08,770
But there was a problem.
226
00:15:09,660 --> 00:15:14,490
Which I think she always
knew about in her heart
227
00:15:14,540 --> 00:15:17,130
and-and, er, hoped would changed.
228
00:15:17,180 --> 00:15:20,860
And, er, I wanted it to change.
229
00:15:22,540 --> 00:15:26,180
I wanted it to change, but it wouldn't.
230
00:15:27,420 --> 00:15:29,210
I couldn't.
231
00:15:29,260 --> 00:15:30,940
What problem?
232
00:15:35,660 --> 00:15:37,340
I liked men.
233
00:15:39,260 --> 00:15:41,200
I didn't want to.
234
00:15:42,220 --> 00:15:44,690
I absolutely didn't want to.
235
00:15:45,540 --> 00:15:47,370
Just how I was.
236
00:15:47,420 --> 00:15:52,650
You liked men and women, or just...?
237
00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:56,610
I loved my wife. I mean,
I still do. Very much.
238
00:15:56,660 --> 00:16:01,090
And obviously, I was able to,
er, you know... We had two boys.
239
00:16:01,140 --> 00:16:03,610
But, right from when I was a kid,
240
00:16:03,660 --> 00:16:07,820
I just had this thing
inside of me that made me...
241
00:16:09,380 --> 00:16:12,010
- .. want to be with men.
- Men like Paul West?
242
00:16:12,060 --> 00:16:15,180
I never wanted to hurt West.
243
00:16:16,460 --> 00:16:20,900
He asked me to rough him up a bit.
244
00:16:22,780 --> 00:16:24,490
Some men seem to like that.
245
00:16:24,540 --> 00:16:27,370
And Jimmy? And Nicholas?
246
00:16:27,420 --> 00:16:30,050
Well, Jimmy, he just wanted money.
247
00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:33,540
Nicholas, I-I met in the pub.
248
00:16:36,620 --> 00:16:38,780
And how did they die?
249
00:16:43,860 --> 00:16:46,600
I-I would never have hurt Jimmy.
250
00:16:47,180 --> 00:16:48,890
I loved him.
251
00:16:48,940 --> 00:16:51,210
I'd never have hurt him.
252
00:16:53,860 --> 00:16:55,660
I'm sorry.
253
00:16:57,420 --> 00:16:59,090
I'm so sorry.
254
00:17:07,980 --> 00:17:11,820
I think we might need five minutes.
255
00:17:13,020 --> 00:17:14,770
Five minutes. No more, please.
256
00:17:14,820 --> 00:17:16,930
We're taking a short
break in the interview.
257
00:17:16,980 --> 00:17:19,920
Time is... It's 10:41. Would you...?
258
00:17:23,620 --> 00:17:25,290
You gotta hand it to the man.
259
00:17:25,340 --> 00:17:27,410
He is smart as fuck.
260
00:17:28,540 --> 00:17:30,530
If you're going to blame somebody else,
261
00:17:30,580 --> 00:17:33,290
then choose a woman whose
memory is completely shot
262
00:17:33,340 --> 00:17:35,410
and can't even deny it.
263
00:17:35,460 --> 00:17:37,400
His face, though.
264
00:17:39,020 --> 00:17:40,700
What?
265
00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:45,090
It was the same as in his house
when we asked him about Paul West.
266
00:17:45,140 --> 00:17:50,060
And last night at the station, when
we said we were gonna charge him.
267
00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:54,770
When he said it wasn't him.
268
00:17:57,420 --> 00:18:00,010
And now I know why I
felt so crap afterwards.
269
00:18:00,060 --> 00:18:01,890
Why?
270
00:18:01,940 --> 00:18:04,140
Because I believed him.
271
00:18:06,860 --> 00:18:09,000
You call the station.
272
00:18:10,540 --> 00:18:13,410
We need to re-arrest Claire Slater.
273
00:18:19,780 --> 00:18:22,490
Yeah, but, I-I-I thought the
CPS said that we could...?
274
00:18:22,540 --> 00:18:24,650
Yeah, yeah. Which one
of the sons took her?
275
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:27,130
Um, er, I'm not sure.
276
00:18:27,180 --> 00:18:29,490
I'll... I'll call their homes.
277
00:18:29,540 --> 00:18:31,530
OK.
278
00:18:31,580 --> 00:18:33,170
(Bollocks.)
279
00:18:33,220 --> 00:18:34,930
Mr Wilton?
280
00:18:34,980 --> 00:18:36,580
Yes.
281
00:18:37,620 --> 00:18:39,610
Your wife was pulled out of the river.
282
00:18:39,660 --> 00:18:41,800
A passerby jumped in.
283
00:18:42,780 --> 00:18:44,770
She was unconscious when she came out
284
00:18:44,820 --> 00:18:46,930
and was taken immediately to St Thomas'.
285
00:18:46,980 --> 00:18:48,850
I'm afraid that's all I know.
286
00:18:48,900 --> 00:18:50,530
Murray?
287
00:18:50,580 --> 00:18:55,050
- Have we got mobile numbers for the sons?
- I dunno, maybe.
288
00:18:55,100 --> 00:18:56,890
Why, are neither of them at the house?
289
00:18:56,940 --> 00:18:59,770
No. I'm not sure they
will be for a few days.
290
00:18:59,820 --> 00:19:01,450
I thought we were done with her
291
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:05,340
and I kind of told them they might
want to lie low for a week or so.
292
00:19:18,700 --> 00:19:24,730
I'd-I'd stayed late, er, to-to
see him, er, Jimmy, again.
293
00:19:24,780 --> 00:19:27,580
And, er, she must've just guessed.
294
00:19:28,780 --> 00:19:32,690
I think she always knew
when I was, er, well...
295
00:19:32,740 --> 00:19:36,660
This-This one time,
she-she came to find me.
296
00:19:38,380 --> 00:19:44,340
And what you need to know...
is she wasn't well, mentally.
297
00:19:45,340 --> 00:19:49,130
Er, we'd just had Leslie and
ever since she'd been, oh!
298
00:19:49,180 --> 00:19:54,250
Well, phew, ve-very s... very sick.
299
00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:56,290
And, of course, in those
days, the doctors,
300
00:19:56,340 --> 00:19:59,090
they just told you to
pull yourself together.
301
00:19:59,140 --> 00:20:02,820
You know? So, she never,
never got any... any help.
302
00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:09,170
And I never s... I never
saw her coming down.
303
00:20:09,220 --> 00:20:11,020
It was dark.
304
00:20:13,140 --> 00:20:15,660
Well, she-she saw us.
305
00:20:18,780 --> 00:20:25,410
She-She hit him with, um, with a
hammer she'd found on a workbench.
306
00:20:25,460 --> 00:20:27,290
Just once.
307
00:20:27,340 --> 00:20:31,220
But I-I knew from the
sound it made that, uh...
308
00:20:32,980 --> 00:20:35,250
Oh, and then she was screaming at me,
309
00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:38,370
calling me... all the names under the sun.
310
00:20:38,420 --> 00:20:42,090
I was trying to get me hand
over her mouth to keep her quiet
311
00:20:42,140 --> 00:20:44,370
and by the time I'd sorted her out...
312
00:20:44,420 --> 00:20:51,090
Jimmy... Well, I-I think he was
dead before he hit the floor.
313
00:20:51,140 --> 00:20:55,540
So, er, I locked the cellar.
314
00:20:56,620 --> 00:20:58,770
Took Claire home.
315
00:20:58,820 --> 00:21:00,980
Came back later.
316
00:21:02,740 --> 00:21:08,010
Course I-I couldn't risk,
er, carrying him outside,
317
00:21:08,060 --> 00:21:14,100
so, um, I buried him there...
318
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:17,970
.. later that night.
319
00:21:20,420 --> 00:21:25,500
Will you tell his mother,
please, that I said prayers?
320
00:21:32,580 --> 00:21:34,570
I said prayers for him.
321
00:21:34,620 --> 00:21:37,090
I-I, um, I looked after him.
322
00:21:37,140 --> 00:21:42,570
Of course, I, I assumed that, um,
you know, er, we'd be caught.
323
00:21:42,620 --> 00:21:46,170
He'd be found. But he... He never was.
324
00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:47,810
And, oh, that night.
325
00:21:47,860 --> 00:21:50,940
I vowed to stop all of that for good.
326
00:21:52,140 --> 00:21:54,330
And we moved up to, er, Ely.
327
00:21:54,380 --> 00:21:56,570
Yeah, to get away from London.
328
00:21:56,620 --> 00:21:59,210
It worked. Mm.
329
00:21:59,260 --> 00:22:01,400
Yes, it worked. Um...
330
00:22:02,940 --> 00:22:05,490
Yeah, two years later, we had little Matty
331
00:22:05,540 --> 00:22:07,880
and it, it was all, er...
332
00:22:08,740 --> 00:22:11,530
You know, but, it was the
'70s. There was no work.
333
00:22:11,580 --> 00:22:18,330
And, erm, I ended up having
to get a job back in London,
334
00:22:18,380 --> 00:22:20,780
two days a week in Camden.
335
00:22:22,940 --> 00:22:27,300
And I started to stay out late again.
336
00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:35,580
So, er, one night she left
the kids with a friend.
337
00:22:36,660 --> 00:22:40,170
Came down to London, followed me, er...
338
00:22:40,220 --> 00:22:43,330
.. from work up to Hampstead
339
00:22:43,380 --> 00:22:48,220
and found me with Nicholas in my car.
340
00:22:50,020 --> 00:22:52,010
Of course, she went for him.
341
00:22:52,060 --> 00:22:54,580
Pulled him out, punching.
342
00:22:56,860 --> 00:23:00,360
Kicking and, er, then,
he was on the ground.
343
00:23:00,700 --> 00:23:02,410
Blood everywhere.
344
00:23:02,460 --> 00:23:06,100
She-She always said that
it was him who'd drawn it...
345
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:09,240
.. the-the knife.
346
00:23:09,940 --> 00:23:13,260
But she was, er, ill.
347
00:23:15,660 --> 00:23:20,250
Very ill again aft-after-after Matty.
348
00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:26,460
So, I, um, I pulled him
back, back into the car.
349
00:23:31,180 --> 00:23:33,970
I want you to know
350
00:23:34,020 --> 00:23:39,300
that I stood outside police
stations dozens of times.
351
00:23:40,540 --> 00:23:44,220
Dozens of times after Jimmy.
352
00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:49,300
And, um, what did she feel?
353
00:23:51,380 --> 00:23:53,610
Well, when she got better, of course,
354
00:23:53,660 --> 00:23:56,370
she was devastated by what she'd done.
355
00:23:56,420 --> 00:23:58,250
But, you know, we had a little boy.
356
00:23:58,300 --> 00:24:00,900
If we'd both gone to prison...
357
00:24:02,140 --> 00:24:04,610
And after Nicholas Whitmore?
358
00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:11,700
I-I drove my car into a tree
two weeks after Nicholas.
359
00:24:12,860 --> 00:24:15,010
I wanted to die.
360
00:24:15,060 --> 00:24:18,810
But actually, in the end,
361
00:24:18,860 --> 00:24:26,890
I think, er, this... er, this,
erm, was a fairer punishment.
362
00:24:26,940 --> 00:24:36,740
I'm sure Jimmy and Nicholas's
families, er... wouldn't agree.
363
00:24:51,780 --> 00:24:54,520
I've already made calls, Joshie.
364
00:24:56,100 --> 00:25:00,610
People who'll make that little
prick Asil shit out of his ears.
365
00:25:00,660 --> 00:25:02,330
Dad, the police are coming.
366
00:25:02,380 --> 00:25:04,010
Huh?
367
00:25:04,060 --> 00:25:06,770
The police are coming in to
arrest you in five minutes.
368
00:25:06,820 --> 00:25:09,920
They've already pulled up down the road.
369
00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:13,500
What do you mean, coming in to...?
370
00:25:15,260 --> 00:25:18,380
Why are police coming to arrest me?
371
00:25:31,380 --> 00:25:34,180
Because I told them about Fenwick.
372
00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:38,530
Cos I think you've lost your
way, Dad. I think we all have.
373
00:25:38,580 --> 00:25:40,780
And because I love you.
374
00:25:52,220 --> 00:25:54,020
Goodnight, Mum.
375
00:26:51,860 --> 00:26:54,330
I'm so sorry, Ray, I...
376
00:26:54,380 --> 00:26:56,290
Don't you say another word.
377
00:26:56,340 --> 00:26:58,380
Not one word.
378
00:27:03,260 --> 00:27:06,060
It's me who should be apologising.
379
00:27:06,620 --> 00:27:08,420
It's me.
380
00:27:23,060 --> 00:27:25,380
Uh-huh.
381
00:27:26,780 --> 00:27:28,370
What?
382
00:27:28,420 --> 00:27:30,250
Oh...
383
00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:32,450
OK, cheers. Thanks.
384
00:27:34,540 --> 00:27:38,340
Nobody has any idea where
Claire or her sons are.
385
00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:40,570
They've disappeared.
386
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,320
Oh, Caz, he's gorgeous.
387
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,190
You can't call him Noah.
388
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,540
(Shit.) Sorry.
389
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,880
Hello. Ellie speaking.
390
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,470
Hello?
391
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,880
Hi, Ellie. Erm, er, you don't know me.
392
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,760
My name's Thea.
393
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:19,500
I'm your half-sister.
394
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,030
And how bad is it?
395
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,670
I spoke to her GP earlier.
396
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,390
I mean, obviously we'd have
to get our own assessment done
397
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,270
but, yeah, it's, it's fairly advanced.
398
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,470
She first presented four years ago,
399
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,910
but the decline in the last few months
has been particularly rapid, apparently.
400
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,710
Right.
401
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,790
Well, you know what I'm going to say.
402
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,670
Could she properly remember
what she's been accused of?
403
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,110
Could she tell her solicitor
her side of things?
404
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,830
Could she challenge what
witnesses say in court?
405
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,070
And, if she can't do any of those
things, she's unfit to plead.
406
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,910
- OK, so... - Well, there are
a number of questions here.
407
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,870
I mean, if he's worked all this out,
408
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,660
why would he not say it was her?
409
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,790
Assisting an offender carries a
maximum sentence of ten years.
410
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,750
Now, given his age he might get,
I don't know, eight. Out in four.
411
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,630
- For double murder, he's
gonna die in prison. - Yeah.
412
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,150
- What's your gut feeling?
- All of it is true.
413
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,550
To admit what he did, my feeling is that,
414
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,230
that was actually harder for
him than saying he killed them.
415
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,030
Which might sound unbelievable,
until you think that
416
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,670
for the first 30 years of his life
what he was, what he did was illegal
417
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,190
and, um, utterly disgusting
to 99% of the population.
418
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,910
I think that shame absolutely remains.
419
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,510
Then why did he admit it, then?
420
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,310
Because, in the end, he knew that
421
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,510
his boys were gonna lose their
mother pretty soon, anyway.
422
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,750
Already had, to a degree.
423
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,670
So telling us what he did, I
think his reasoning was that
424
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,030
that meant at least they didn't lose both.
425
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,750
And is there any evidence
to corroborate his version?
426
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,790
I think we'll find evidence that he
had multiple homosexual relationships.
427
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,430
We might find, er, medical records
428
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,630
confirming she had some
form of postpartum psychosis.
429
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,830
Maybe even we'll be able
to place her at the hostel,
430
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,870
um, on the... on the night Jimmy died.
431
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,150
And then, if we do, then, his
narrative is better than ours.
432
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,870
We've got a mobile number
for Matthew Slater's work.
433
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,870
No answer from him yet, but his
work have told us where he is.
434
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,720
- Local police are on their way.
- OK, thank you.
435
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,710
You really are an evil bitch, aren't you?
436
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,390
Matthew...
437
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,310
How could you have watched your
husband put a body in the ground
438
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,350
- and not said anything?
- What body? What are you talking about?
439
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,110
How could that ever have seemed
an acceptable thing to do?
440
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,910
- Matthew, you're scaring me.
- Good!
441
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,870
I wonder if you feel as scared
as your grandson was yesterday?
442
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,880
Or as I did when I watched the news and
realised that this is who we are now.
443
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,590
Ooh! Sorry.
444
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,990
- Oh, sorry. Uh...
- No, no, I-I'll just...
445
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,710
♪ .. The unspeakable wrong... ♪
446
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,160
- Hey. - I've just walked
in on your granddad.
447
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,350
Oh, right, with Annie.
448
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,590
What? I don't know, it
was a little old lady.
449
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,380
Yeah. She works at the Feathers.
450
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,110
- Sorry about that.
- No, no, no. It's fine, you know.
451
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,430
- I shouldn't have barged in.
- No, it's your house.
452
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,190
I should've knocked or...
453
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,790
- Anyway, I'm bushed so, uh... - Sure.
No problem. - .. I'm gonna turn in.
454
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,510
- Yeah. - Night. - Night, then.
455
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,540
That went well (!)
456
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,520
Class (!)
457
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,990
You have absolutely no proof
458
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,550
my client was connected to
these events in any way.
459
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,750
And if either of you have
kids, I don't need to tell you
460
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,790
just how many reasons there could
be for Josh saying what he did
461
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,350
without any connection
to the truth whatsoever.
462
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,710
Which is all well and good, Mr Archer,
463
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,760
but doesn't really answer my question.
464
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,790
Did you pay to have Gordon
Fenwick murdered, Sir Phillip?
465
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,080
If you have no further questions,
I think we'll be on our way.
466
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,710
They've got nothing to hold you
here, Sir Phillip. Let's go.
467
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,360
Yes.
468
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:03,990
Er... I'm sorry?
469
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:05,630
Sir Philip.
470
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,680
Yes.
471
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,360
I paid for Gordon Fenwick to be killed.
472
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,510
Early?
473
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,070
Listen, um, last night...
474
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:31,830
Please. There's no need.
475
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,360
No, I just wanted to say that I'm
trying to look forward, Cass.
476
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,120
Cos life goes on, doesn't it?
477
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,990
And just live your life for you, Dad.
478
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,070
Just-Just do what makes you happy.
479
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,830
Please.
480
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:52,920
Please, please.
481
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:05,590
Hey there, Miss.
482
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,580
Hello, sweetheart.
483
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,830
How lovely to see you again.
484
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,390
Well, if you could
conclusively prove she did it,
485
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,430
then a judge and a jury could
hear the prosecution evidence,
486
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,070
despite her being unfit to plead.
487
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:36,830
Except they can't convict her.
488
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,710
No. But the court is at least
acknowledging the facts,
489
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,000
which might be better for
Jimmy and Nicholas's family.
490
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,790
- And what happens to her?
- Well, she'd just get the supervision order.
491
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,740
Which is what she'd get
if it didn't got to court.
492
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,720
Right, so she causes
the death of two people.
493
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,950
All the pain those two
families have been through.
494
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,120
And she sees out her days in a care home.
495
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,460
Do you recognise him, Claire?
496
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,760
No, I don't think so. Sorry.
497
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,990
You don't remember hurting him?
498
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:39,510
No, I don't. I'm trying.
499
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:55,680
It was in the cellar of
Arlingham House, July 1976.
500
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,120
You went to find your husband.
501
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,790
- What?
- I don't know.
502
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,180
You remembered something?
503
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,670
Maybe I remember this boy...
504
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:18,790
Maybe. I don't know.
505
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,640
Do you, um, remember...
506
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:40,040
.. being unwell, after your
children were born, Claire?
507
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,030
Maybe. I don't know.
508
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,700
Do you remember that
your husband liked men?
509
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,960
Oh!
510
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,280
Was it to do with that?
511
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,310
You know what? I'm really
not happy with this.
512
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,190
We need to stop.
513
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:09,670
I'm so sorry if I hurt anyone.
514
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:12,310
If I could remember I'd
tell you, but I can't.
515
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,480
I'm sorry.
516
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,480
We can't thank you enough.
517
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,990
How is it I feel sorry for her?
518
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,790
Hi, Maureen.
519
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,840
Can I come in?
520
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:25,750
Hi.
521
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:53,400
So, what I wanted to tell you,
Grace, was that actually Dad...
522
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:56,870
.. Robert...
523
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,470
.. he very much wanted
to tell you about me.
524
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,590
In fact, from the moment he found out,
525
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:03,630
when I was about 18 months old,
526
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,880
he desperately wanted to
admit his mistake to you.
527
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,180
But my mother, she...
528
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,960
Well, she was scared she
would lose me, somehow.
529
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,600
So she told him that if
he ever did tell you...
530
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,510
.. he would never see me again.
531
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,980
So, he chose to live this terrible lie...
532
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,120
.. so he could be there
for you and for me.
533
00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:37,910
And be the best father
he could to all of us.
534
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,400
But him not telling you...
535
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,870
.. well, that came from a
place of love and decency.
536
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,680
And I just hope that, some day...
537
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,140
.. you'll be able to forgive him for it.
538
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,790
Every time I turn a corner, I
meet someone from the old days.
539
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,760
Like a bloody school reunion.
540
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,790
And next week. How are you
feeling about the trial?
541
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,080
The next week's just a
bit of theatre, isn't it?
542
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,800
It's the last two months
that have really mattered.
543
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,160
Thinking time.
544
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,350
All I ever wanted...
545
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,660
.. was for my children
to be better than me.
546
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:36,800
The start I had, the things I was
taught, things I did... back then.
547
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,510
Everything I've ever achieved since,
548
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:44,030
beneath the ambition and
the money and the vanity,
549
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:50,600
was all really to buy you
your escape... from me.
550
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:53,760
What I was.
551
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,240
I'm so proud of you.
552
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,880
Both of you.
553
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,060
Of what you did for me and what you are.
554
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,910
All your visits, Mr Slater.
Your mother's a very lucky woman.
555
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,960
No. No, I'm the lucky one.
556
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,280
Me again.
557
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,310
Does she ever mention me?
558
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,630
She can hardly speak now, Dad.
559
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,430
She-She doesn't... She doesn't know me.
560
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,270
Or Matt.
561
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,520
Matt sees her, does he?
562
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,670
I mean, I know he already knows but...
563
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:09,190
I'd always love to see him.
564
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,360
Tell him again.
565
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,720
I'm so sorry.
566
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,270
How comes you always walk in when
Baz has got his shorts off, Miss?
567
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,390
Timing, Curtis.
568
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,440
Good timing.
569
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:04,720
Lads, move please.42655
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