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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:10,359 --> 00:00:13,119 A deadly fall in rural Pennsylvania. 2 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,600 A small town left shell-shocked by the death 3 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:26,800 of a loving wife and mother. 4 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,920 Carol's death rocked the community. 5 00:00:29,079 --> 00:00:31,960 It was just so unexpected and so surprising. 6 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:34,079 I think both of us felt sick in our stomachs 7 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,240 and emotional, like, just a shock. 8 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,759 Was it simply a tragic accident-- 9 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,560 Perhaps Carol somehow fallen in the bedroom and bled. 10 00:00:45,719 --> 00:00:49,079 Gone outside for fresh air, and stumbled down the stairs 11 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:50,200 and died. 12 00:00:51,439 --> 00:00:52,439 - or was it murder? 13 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:54,399 Were you at the house 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,159 on the day of Carol's death? 15 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:57,719 Yes-- no. 16 00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:58,840 OK. 17 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,200 OK. 18 00:01:00,359 --> 00:01:03,079 They knew at that point that they had 19 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:04,599 a bigger case on their hands. 20 00:01:23,879 --> 00:01:25,120 Carol Hickok was born 21 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,439 Carol Miller on June 30, 1945. 22 00:01:29,599 --> 00:01:31,560 She was the second oldest of 10 children. 23 00:01:32,799 --> 00:01:34,560 Carol, to help her family, took a job 24 00:01:34,719 --> 00:01:36,239 delivering newspapers, and that's 25 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,280 where she met Roger Hickok. 26 00:01:38,439 --> 00:01:44,519 And Carol and Roger Hickok married on May 9, 1964. 27 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,680 The couple went on to have three children 28 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,519 and raised them in rural Pennsylvania. 29 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,599 My name is Betty Thoren, 30 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:59,359 and I first met Carol in 1968 at church. 31 00:01:59,519 --> 00:02:04,159 We were new when we moved here to Canton, Pennsylvania, 32 00:02:04,319 --> 00:02:07,359 and she was one of the first gals that I met. 33 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,599 Canton is a very small rural town. 34 00:02:11,759 --> 00:02:15,280 I believe the population when we came was about 3,000. 35 00:02:15,439 --> 00:02:19,439 And you had 30 miles plus to go either way north or south 36 00:02:19,599 --> 00:02:21,840 to a larger city to shop. 37 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,960 And people often know what's going on in your business 38 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:26,439 before you know it. 39 00:02:26,599 --> 00:02:27,919 It's a very tight knit community. 40 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:29,599 Everybody knows everybody. 41 00:02:29,759 --> 00:02:31,840 And, you know, there's small mom and pop kind of 42 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,319 businesses there. 43 00:02:33,479 --> 00:02:35,120 And then you go to the outer lands. 44 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:36,759 It's very rural and it's very bucolic. 45 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,599 You know, it's dotted with beautiful red barns. 46 00:02:39,759 --> 00:02:42,520 And at one time, it was a large dairy community. 47 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:43,759 There were a lot of farms here. 48 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,719 Roger had a farm, and Roger became 49 00:02:47,879 --> 00:02:50,080 a very successful veal farmer. 50 00:02:51,479 --> 00:02:55,240 Carol also had her own little veal business, 51 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,599 and she did very well with that. 52 00:02:57,759 --> 00:02:58,719 She was respected. 53 00:02:58,879 --> 00:03:00,120 She was a businesswoman. 54 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,479 She ran the business for them. 55 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,280 She did a very good job, and was a good mom 56 00:03:06,439 --> 00:03:07,599 to her three children. 57 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,319 Life seemed pretty good for Roger and Carol. 58 00:03:14,479 --> 00:03:18,560 But in 1996, their relationship changed forever. 59 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,439 By all accounts, you know, Roger and 60 00:03:22,599 --> 00:03:23,919 Carol were living a good life. 61 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:25,520 She was a good wife. 62 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,919 She was a devoted mother, well revered in the community. 63 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,000 And for one reason or another, Roger met Emily, and 64 00:03:33,159 --> 00:03:35,599 they began a 15-year affair. 65 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,919 After Emily Bellows-Schaffer and 66 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,439 Roger started a relationship, he made 67 00:03:42,599 --> 00:03:44,080 no secret of their affair. 68 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,280 Roger would spend time with Emily, 69 00:03:47,439 --> 00:03:49,919 and he would go home with Carol. 70 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,159 And she would make these wonderful meals and pies 71 00:03:53,319 --> 00:03:55,159 and welcome him home. 72 00:03:55,319 --> 00:03:57,960 And then he would be with Emily the other times. 73 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,800 And there was a cabin above their home 74 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,599 that Emily did stay in from time to time. 75 00:04:05,759 --> 00:04:08,120 Carol did know that Emily was there. 76 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:09,479 She told me. 77 00:04:09,639 --> 00:04:11,639 Not everyone could do that, or would do that. 78 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,240 She did that, and she chose to do it 79 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:14,919 because she thought it was right, regardless 80 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:16,360 of what anyone said. 81 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,439 A mutual friend told my husband that he 82 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:26,319 knew that Roger had a little boy, a child with Emily. 83 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:27,839 It was never difficult to believe, 84 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,680 but my husband assured me that it was so, 85 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:31,279 and that they had a little boy. 86 00:04:32,959 --> 00:04:35,399 The existence of Roger and Emily's son, 87 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,360 Charlie, would eventually be learned 88 00:04:37,519 --> 00:04:41,319 by Bradford County District Attorney Daniel Barrett. 89 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,480 After the son was born, at one point, 90 00:04:43,639 --> 00:04:47,000 Roger had started a divorce from Carol. 91 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,560 But Emily, I guess, abandoned Roger at that point, 92 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,160 and then Roger and Carol reconciled. 93 00:04:53,319 --> 00:04:55,759 She said, people want to know why I'm still 94 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,680 here, basically, with Roger. 95 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:02,519 She said, I don't feel that the Lord wants me to divorce Roger. 96 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:08,079 I know I'm to stay here, and that's what I'm going to do. 97 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:09,560 And then when Emily wasn't taking 98 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,600 very good care of her child, Roger 99 00:05:12,759 --> 00:05:15,639 got involved in seeking custody of the child 100 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:17,160 because the child needed care. 101 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,800 Carol was a religious woman. 102 00:05:20,959 --> 00:05:22,920 She enjoyed children. 103 00:05:23,079 --> 00:05:28,120 And she willingly accepted Charlie into her home. 104 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,480 And they built their life around the child. 105 00:05:32,879 --> 00:05:34,519 Carol, Roger, and Charlie 106 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,879 were living together as a family, 107 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,839 when, in the early hours of September 15, 2010, 108 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:41,959 everything changed. 109 00:05:43,639 --> 00:05:48,319 An occasional insomniac, Roger was having trouble sleeping. 110 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:49,800 On the morning of the 15th, 111 00:05:49,959 --> 00:05:51,560 Roger Hickok woke up. 112 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,279 And as he commonly did, he headed to a nearby coffee shop 113 00:05:55,439 --> 00:05:57,439 to get coffee and talk with his friends. 114 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,199 After arriving at the cafe in Canton, 115 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,639 Roger sat and drank coffee for several hours. 116 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,480 And after a while, 117 00:06:08,639 --> 00:06:10,319 it was getting near school bus time, 118 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,720 so he called home to make sure that his son 119 00:06:12,879 --> 00:06:14,600 was on the school bus. 120 00:06:14,759 --> 00:06:16,560 His wife didn't answer. 121 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,839 His son answered the phone. 122 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,399 And his son said that he didn't know 123 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,879 where Mimi was, because Mimi is what he called his stepmother. 124 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,560 A few minutes later, Charlie calls his father and says, 125 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,079 mom is outside at the bottom of the steps. 126 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:34,879 She's unresponsive. 127 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:36,199 She's not moving. 128 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:37,920 I need you here. 129 00:06:38,079 --> 00:06:44,079 Roger then was stunned and called for 911 help 130 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,600 because he knew something horrible had to have happened. 131 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,399 Roger raced home to find 132 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,720 Carol at the bottom of some steps, 133 00:07:16,879 --> 00:07:19,240 unresponsive and covered in blood 134 00:07:19,399 --> 00:07:23,480 from what looked like a severe head wound after a tragic fall. 135 00:07:23,639 --> 00:07:25,680 Carol was showing no signs of life, 136 00:07:25,839 --> 00:07:28,480 and Roger recognized that she was dead. 137 00:07:28,639 --> 00:07:30,519 He and his son just said a prayer 138 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,639 and waited for the emergency personnel to arrive. 139 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,079 At 8:16 AM, the coroner 140 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,879 arrived to find Carol Hickok's body wrapped in a blanket. 141 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,439 And she was officially pronounced dead at the scene. 142 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,519 News of Carol's sudden, tragic death 143 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,680 spread quickly to family and friends. 144 00:07:57,839 --> 00:08:00,959 We received a phone call about 20 145 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,319 after 8:00 from a friend who told 146 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,279 us that Carol had passed away. 147 00:08:07,439 --> 00:08:09,600 I think both of us felt sick in our stomachs 148 00:08:09,759 --> 00:08:12,240 and emotional, like, just a shock. 149 00:08:12,399 --> 00:08:13,360 My husband and I-- 150 00:08:13,519 --> 00:08:16,959 Larry and I just, just sat down. 151 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,399 And how could this be? 152 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,600 Carol's family were devastated 153 00:08:21,759 --> 00:08:23,079 by her sudden death. 154 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,319 They struggled to comprehend how they were going 155 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,000 to move on with their life. 156 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,600 They just said it was the most heartbreaking thing that they'd 157 00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:31,800 ever had to comprehend. 158 00:08:31,959 --> 00:08:34,080 Carol's death rocked the community. 159 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,679 It was just so unexpected and so surprising 160 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,799 because she was a vibrant, healthy woman. 161 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:45,399 And here, something so seemingly simple took her out. 162 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:46,720 Carol's death appeared 163 00:08:46,879 --> 00:08:49,799 to be a tragic accident from a fatal fall 164 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,240 down the rear steps of her home. 165 00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:55,159 But when first responders entered the house, 166 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,440 they found there might be more to the story 167 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:58,559 than they realized. 168 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,000 In the master bedroom, it became very clear 169 00:09:03,159 --> 00:09:05,120 that something big happened. 170 00:09:06,519 --> 00:09:08,360 There was a lot of blood. 171 00:09:08,519 --> 00:09:10,159 There was blood on the corner of the dresser. 172 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:12,600 There was blood on the floor. 173 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,759 Investigators found blood on the bed, 174 00:09:16,919 --> 00:09:19,360 but the comforter had been removed from the bed 175 00:09:19,519 --> 00:09:21,480 and placed in a washing machine, 176 00:09:21,639 --> 00:09:23,039 still covered in blood. 177 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,279 The washing machine had not been turned on. 178 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:28,559 That was a mystery. 179 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,159 And for the police, there was an effort 180 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,320 to determine what can we see, what might tell us something 181 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,279 that had happened here. 182 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,279 And the circumstances were quite strange. 183 00:09:44,519 --> 00:09:47,000 Despite the discovery of a large amount of blood 184 00:09:47,159 --> 00:09:50,600 in the bedroom and on the comforter found in the washer, 185 00:09:50,759 --> 00:09:53,559 investigators still considered the possibility 186 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,919 that Carol's death had been accidental. 187 00:09:57,639 --> 00:10:00,039 They began to theorize that perhaps Carol had 188 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,000 somehow fallen in the bedroom and bled, 189 00:10:03,159 --> 00:10:08,799 tried to pick up the clothing and sheets that she bled on, 190 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,399 gone outside for fresh air, and stumbled down the stairs 191 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:13,519 and died. 192 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,000 It made no sense that this woman 193 00:10:17,159 --> 00:10:20,080 would have been the victim of some sort of violence 194 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,879 because there was no sign that anybody had been there. 195 00:10:23,039 --> 00:10:26,480 And there's also no reason why anybody 196 00:10:26,639 --> 00:10:29,559 would drag the woman out on the porch or left her in the lawn. 197 00:10:31,919 --> 00:10:33,559 But investigators also had 198 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,720 to follow protocol for an unexplained death 199 00:10:36,879 --> 00:10:39,240 and treat it like a homicide investigation 200 00:10:39,399 --> 00:10:41,240 until proven otherwise. 201 00:10:41,399 --> 00:10:44,360 In cases where there's a possible injury, 202 00:10:44,519 --> 00:10:47,240 there's always the questions that have to be asked-- 203 00:10:47,399 --> 00:10:49,600 who would want to kill this person? 204 00:10:49,759 --> 00:10:52,840 The question here would be to look at the family, look 205 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,639 at the husband, and anybody that 206 00:10:55,799 --> 00:10:59,960 might have a grudge or a reason to benefit from Carol's death. 207 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:03,759 With investigators open to the possibility 208 00:11:03,919 --> 00:11:06,200 that Carol may have been murdered, 209 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,840 Roger became suspect number one. 210 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,320 After Carol Hickok was found dead at the bottom 211 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:26,120 of a flight of steps at her home on September 15, 2010, 212 00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:29,279 investigators went to speak to her husband, Roger, 213 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,120 to see if he could help them work out 214 00:11:31,279 --> 00:11:35,200 if her death was the result of an accidental fall 215 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,320 or something more sinister. 216 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:40,080 When police arrived 217 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,080 at the house they were carrying on their investigation, 218 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,159 Roger was sat smoking a cigar. 219 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,519 And this kind of jumped out to the authorities 220 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:48,080 as quite strange behavior. 221 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,120 He was smoking a cigar just yards away from where 222 00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:52,799 his wife's dead body lay. 223 00:11:54,799 --> 00:11:57,080 Police took Roger to the local station 224 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:58,799 for an interview. 225 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:00,279 Roger is being questioned 226 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:01,919 because he's the husband. 227 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,240 He's the last person to have seen Carol alive that morning. 228 00:12:05,399 --> 00:12:07,639 So, naturally, they had questions for him. 229 00:12:09,919 --> 00:12:11,440 Roger explained to the police 230 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,559 that he routinely would wake up early and want to do something, 231 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,000 and would go and get coffee. 232 00:12:18,879 --> 00:12:20,840 They immediately deployed officers 233 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,000 to the coffee shop to check the CCTV and verify Roger's story. 234 00:12:26,159 --> 00:12:27,480 Roger had arrived 235 00:12:27,639 --> 00:12:30,120 at the coffee place sometime in the range of 4:00 AM. 236 00:12:30,279 --> 00:12:33,320 It was before daylight, quite early. 237 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,360 And it was easy to check whether he'd been there. 238 00:12:36,519 --> 00:12:40,480 The records of the coffee shop could confirm that. 239 00:12:40,639 --> 00:12:42,799 When questioned about the bloodied blanket that 240 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,759 had been left in the washer, Roger said, I don't even do 241 00:12:45,919 --> 00:12:47,039 the washing in our household. 242 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,039 I wouldn't even know how to use the machine. 243 00:12:50,399 --> 00:12:52,360 Police probed further to ask Roger 244 00:12:52,519 --> 00:12:53,639 what had happened that night and 245 00:12:53,799 --> 00:12:54,840 had there been any disagreements 246 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,320 between the couple. 247 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,000 He said, no, and that they'd gone to bed as normal 248 00:12:58,159 --> 00:13:00,159 between 9:00 to 9:30 PM. 249 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,360 And it was at that point of 4:00 AM that 250 00:13:02,519 --> 00:13:03,919 he decided to leave the house. 251 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,519 And that was the last time that he saw his wife alive. 252 00:13:09,639 --> 00:13:12,799 Early indications suggest that Carol Hickok died 253 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,759 sometime between 4:00 AM and 7:00 AM, 254 00:13:16,919 --> 00:13:19,519 so Roger's timeline stacked up. 255 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,679 Officers then asked Roger to take a polygraph test to verify 256 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:24,879 what he had told them. 257 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,519 The major benefit of polygraph 258 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,840 is that it assists police in eliminating suspects. 259 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,480 Roger's willingness to take the polygraph 260 00:13:35,639 --> 00:13:37,399 was, of course, a good sign. 261 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,759 The police know that the impact 262 00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:46,360 of their suggestion of a polygraph test 263 00:13:46,519 --> 00:13:50,240 can be significant on a potential suspect. 264 00:13:50,399 --> 00:13:55,559 So they often use the polygraph as a tool to elicit a reaction, 265 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,320 to see what reaction they get. 266 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,639 Someone who readily agrees to take a polygraph test, 267 00:14:02,799 --> 00:14:05,919 usually, this indicates that this is someone who wants 268 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,519 to prove their innocence. 269 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,039 Roger Hickok was on hard 270 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:12,559 and blood pressure medication. 271 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,200 He was 65 years old. 272 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,080 And the medications are well-known to mess 273 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,759 up polygraph results. 274 00:14:19,919 --> 00:14:23,000 So his polygraph result was inconclusive. 275 00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:25,799 Despite Roger's willingness 276 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,399 to take the polygraph test, the inconclusive result 277 00:14:29,559 --> 00:14:32,360 meant police continued to treat him as a suspect. 278 00:14:33,679 --> 00:14:34,799 The investigations 279 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,240 stayed with Roger because he was 280 00:14:37,399 --> 00:14:38,679 the other person in the home. 281 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,279 He was married to her. 282 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,039 So he remained somebody that might have, 283 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,399 in one way or another, had some benefit or some motive. 284 00:14:47,559 --> 00:14:50,000 Police needed to consider all possible suspects 285 00:14:50,159 --> 00:14:53,039 at this stage, and that included Roger's son, Charlie. 286 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:54,360 Even though he was 11 years old, 287 00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:57,120 he was the person who discovered Carol's body. 288 00:14:57,279 --> 00:14:59,679 So the police had to ask him some questions 289 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:01,240 to rule him out as a suspect. 290 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,840 However, Charlie's story that he was asleep 291 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,720 during Carol's death checked out, so he was very quickly 292 00:15:07,879 --> 00:15:09,039 ruled out as a suspect. 293 00:15:10,679 --> 00:15:13,120 Diving deeper into Carol and Roger's family 294 00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:16,840 background, police then found out about Roger's affair 295 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,279 with Emily-- 296 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,120 a revelation that dramatically changed the course 297 00:15:21,279 --> 00:15:22,360 of their investigation. 298 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,200 They found out that Charlie wasn't Carol's biological son, 299 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,919 and Charlie was Emily's son. 300 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,399 Carol Hickok's family, of course, 301 00:15:35,559 --> 00:15:38,480 had a fair amount of resentment, 302 00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:42,559 I guess, about Roger's whole involvement with Emily 303 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,679 and the pain it must have caused 304 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,440 Carol over the years and the disruption to the family life. 305 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,360 Once the investigators found out 306 00:15:50,519 --> 00:15:53,600 about this complicated situation, possibly a love 307 00:15:53,759 --> 00:15:55,559 triangle, it then gave them a bit 308 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,240 of a motive to question whether Emily had anything 309 00:15:58,399 --> 00:15:59,559 to do with Carol's death. 310 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,080 Roger, however, said that he had no relationship with 311 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,519 Emily anymore. 312 00:16:05,679 --> 00:16:07,480 They hadn't been in contact for a long time, and 313 00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:10,000 that she didn't have anything to do with Charlie. 314 00:16:10,159 --> 00:16:11,960 Meanwhile, police eagerly 315 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,840 awaited the results of Carol's autopsy, 316 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,720 hoping that it would reveal whether she 317 00:16:16,879 --> 00:16:19,600 had died from an accidental fatal fall, 318 00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:23,679 or if her injuries suggested foul play and the possibility 319 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:25,720 that she was pushed to her death. 320 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:28,799 When the autopsy comes back, 321 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,159 it showed the blunt force trauma to her head. 322 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,320 It showed bruising on her torso and her body. 323 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,639 But at the end of the day, the cause of death 324 00:16:36,799 --> 00:16:38,639 was undetermined. 325 00:16:38,799 --> 00:16:41,200 It is a huge disappointment for investigators 326 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,279 because now they have no idea how Carol really died. 327 00:16:48,759 --> 00:16:50,279 Nine days after Carol's death, 328 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,559 Trooper James Kerrick went over to interview Emily 329 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,720 at her home, which is around an hour away in Pennsylvania 330 00:16:56,879 --> 00:16:57,960 from where Carol lived. 331 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,399 After this two-hour long interview, 332 00:17:01,559 --> 00:17:04,200 Kerrick said that Emily was intelligent, 333 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:05,359 she was cooperative. 334 00:17:05,519 --> 00:17:07,759 But he did notice this resentment 335 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,039 that seemed to still be there towards Roger and Carol, 336 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,759 especially because of her lack of contact with Charlie. 337 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,880 When asked directly if she had any involvement 338 00:17:18,039 --> 00:17:21,319 in Carol's death, Emily simply answered no. 339 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,160 Emily told Trooper Kerrick 340 00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:26,240 that she could not have got to Canton to commit 341 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,000 murder because there was no gas in her tank, 342 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:30,160 and she had no money. 343 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:32,599 When he left that day, 344 00:17:32,759 --> 00:17:34,839 Trooper Kerrick knew that although Emily 345 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,559 could have had something to do with Carol's death, 346 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,279 he had no evidence at this point. 347 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,839 So with no clear leads, all the authorities 348 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,599 could do was wait for the forensic and lab results 349 00:17:45,759 --> 00:17:47,079 to come in. 350 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,400 Three months after Carol's death, 351 00:17:49,559 --> 00:17:53,640 with investigators no closer to determining how she had died, 352 00:17:53,799 --> 00:17:57,440 the coroner decided to revisit the case. 353 00:17:57,599 --> 00:17:59,799 It's not common for a coroner 354 00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:01,880 to revisit a case, but there was just 355 00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:04,720 something about this case that didn't 356 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:06,880 sit right with investigators. 357 00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:09,039 The coroner is going through the photos again, 358 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:14,200 and he notices that there are scratches to Carol's neck, 359 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,119 and it almost looks like defense wounds. 360 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,599 Suddenly, investigators had 361 00:18:20,759 --> 00:18:22,440 a potential cause of death. 362 00:18:24,039 --> 00:18:26,640 If their suspicions were right, then, at some point, 363 00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:29,000 Carol had been fighting for her life 364 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,079 while somebody had their hands around her throat. 365 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,079 What had once seemed like a mystery 366 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,319 was now a murder investigation. 367 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,559 After discovering that they were now 368 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,319 dealing with a homicide, police received 369 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,799 a phone call that revealed yet another twist to the story. 370 00:18:51,079 --> 00:18:52,960 Carol's brother contacted the police 371 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,559 to say that Roger and Charlie had now moved to Roger's home 372 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,000 in Crystal River in Florida, and that Emily was 373 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,680 living with them there too. 374 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:04,640 When it became known 375 00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:08,319 that Roger had gone to Florida with Emily Bellows-Schaffer and 376 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,799 their son, it was something of interest to the police. 377 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,799 This was very conflicting to what the investigators 378 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:17,480 originally thought. 379 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,960 They had been told that Emily had nothing to do with Charlie, 380 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,079 yet now she had practically stepped 381 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,920 in to be another mom to him, all living together 382 00:19:25,079 --> 00:19:27,440 as a family under one roof. 383 00:19:27,599 --> 00:19:31,559 And also, it seemed possible that Emily and Roger all along 384 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,039 had been carrying on their relationship, 385 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,039 and that actually it had been Carol 386 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:37,440 who was getting in the way. 387 00:19:39,559 --> 00:19:40,920 The news of Rogers move 388 00:19:41,079 --> 00:19:43,359 to Florida with his ex-lover sent 389 00:19:43,519 --> 00:19:48,119 shock waves through Carol's family and the local community. 390 00:19:48,279 --> 00:19:50,200 People who had reasons 391 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,599 to resent either Roger's conduct or 392 00:19:52,759 --> 00:19:57,000 Emily's conduct over the years found a good opportunity 393 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:02,880 to use the trip to Florida as a reason to justify suspicions 394 00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:06,559 that Roger, or Roger and Emily, or Emily had been 395 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,200 involved in Carol's death. 396 00:20:19,079 --> 00:20:21,200 Just three months after Carol Hickok 397 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,319 was found dead at the foot of the steps 398 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,599 outside her home in Canton, Pennsylvania, 399 00:20:26,759 --> 00:20:30,240 her husband Roger had moved to Florida with his former lover, 400 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:31,880 Emily, and their son. 401 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,279 But without enough evidence, police 402 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,720 were unable to bring them back to Pennsylvania 403 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,160 to be interviewed. 404 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,960 Seven months later, on July 19, 2011, 405 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,160 police received a call that would 406 00:20:47,319 --> 00:20:49,359 turn the case on its head. 407 00:20:49,519 --> 00:20:52,680 Police get a phone call from Emily Schaffer. 408 00:20:52,839 --> 00:20:55,720 And she says she has something interesting to tell 409 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,279 them about Carol Hickok. 410 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,200 Emily had explained to police that she 411 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:01,880 and Roger had a falling out. 412 00:21:03,559 --> 00:21:06,200 She told officers that following their argument, 413 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,480 Roger had taken Charlie back to their home 414 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,680 in Canton, Pennsylvania. 415 00:21:10,839 --> 00:21:11,720 That was kind 416 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,319 of the last straw for Emily. 417 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,279 She was very frustrated. 418 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,960 She was missing her child. 419 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,880 The reason that Emily Schaffer was even in town 420 00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:22,160 was because she had a court hearing to go 421 00:21:22,319 --> 00:21:24,440 over custody of young Charlie. 422 00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:31,359 Eager to speak to Emily about Carol's death, 423 00:21:31,519 --> 00:21:33,400 police collected her from the courthouse 424 00:21:33,559 --> 00:21:35,720 for a voluntary interview at the station. 425 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,799 Emily arrives at the police station, 426 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,079 and they bring her into an office rather 427 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:42,799 than an interrogation room. 428 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,200 So Emily was not under arrest at this point. 429 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,119 This is just a conversation. 430 00:21:48,279 --> 00:21:51,200 They have no idea what she's about to tell them. 431 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:54,960 Trooper Dave Pelachick 432 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,759 led the interview, with Trooper Nathan Lewis 433 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,200 also in attendance. 434 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,359 We received a phone call from you today. 435 00:22:02,519 --> 00:22:04,039 Yes. 436 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:05,720 You wanted to share some information with us. 437 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:06,839 Yes. 438 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,319 She arrives with a backpack 439 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,039 full of paperwork, and troopers want 440 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,319 to hear what she has to say. 441 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,440 Roger Hickok and I have had-- 442 00:22:17,599 --> 00:22:20,400 we've known each other over 15 years. 443 00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:24,119 And it was a rocky 15 years. 444 00:22:24,279 --> 00:22:28,279 As time progressed, he became more 445 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,920 and more angry and violent. 446 00:22:32,079 --> 00:22:33,759 Do you think he's capable of something, 447 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,359 of causing harm to someone? 448 00:22:35,519 --> 00:22:36,880 At first, I thought, you know, 449 00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:40,000 there's no way Roger could have done this. 450 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:45,240 But the more I see that he still has the hair trigger 451 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,559 temper and the split personality, 452 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,720 I think anything is possible. 453 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,680 She's afraid of Roger, all of a sudden. 454 00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:54,480 After a 15-year relationship where 455 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,359 they're loving each other and they have a child, 456 00:22:56,519 --> 00:22:57,599 suddenly she's afraid. 457 00:22:57,759 --> 00:22:59,880 He's abusive, she's scared of him. 458 00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:02,000 She doesn't know what's going to happen. 459 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:07,319 And it looks like she's trying to protect herself from Roger. 460 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,519 He is a narcissist, and he is a sociopath. 461 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,400 Emily then went on to talk about Carol's history 462 00:23:14,559 --> 00:23:15,839 with Charlie and Roger. 463 00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:18,720 Prior to Carol's death, 464 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,880 she was the primary caretaker of Charlie. 465 00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:23,480 After Carol's death, I went to Florida 466 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,880 with him, primarily to take care of Charlie 467 00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:28,319 because he does not. 468 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,880 It becomes very clear that Emily 469 00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:33,640 is no longer Roger's ally. 470 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,160 When Roger and Emily and their child 471 00:23:37,319 --> 00:23:39,759 went to Florida, the relationship with them 472 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,119 didn't develop. 473 00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:42,839 It wasn't, at last, we were together, at least 474 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,960 as far as Roger was concerned. 475 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,759 Emily had nothing really to call a job. 476 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,039 She was living from hand to mouth. 477 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,279 And eventually, as the winter ended, 478 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,119 he headed back to Pennsylvania and made it clear 479 00:23:54,279 --> 00:23:56,079 that he wasn't bringing Emily with him. 480 00:23:59,079 --> 00:24:00,119 In the middle 481 00:24:00,279 --> 00:24:01,839 of the interview, as she's carrying 482 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,200 on about how awful Roger is, her cell phone rings. 483 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,799 This is Roger calling right now. 484 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,519 Roger had called Emily to ask her out for lunch. 485 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,279 When the call comes in from Roger inviting her to lunch, 486 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,359 he was calm and reasonable and wasn't 487 00:24:18,519 --> 00:24:19,960 yelling or complaining at her. 488 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:21,400 He just invited her. 489 00:24:21,559 --> 00:24:25,559 So his calling her was consistent with being 490 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,039 very reasonable. 491 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:28,680 Why do you want to have lunch? 492 00:24:31,799 --> 00:24:34,519 Because what he says to me and 493 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,200 what he says to other people are 494 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,359 opposite ends of the spectrum. 495 00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:42,960 Suspicious of Emily's description 496 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,400 of Roger as a violent sociopath, troopers 497 00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:49,400 continued to probe Emily on their relationship. 498 00:24:49,559 --> 00:24:52,920 We were supposed to have shared custody, 499 00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:57,079 but he refused every opportunity, every request 500 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,759 that I had to see Charlie. 501 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,559 He refused to let me see him. 502 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,160 Roger does not want Charlie talking to me. 503 00:25:03,319 --> 00:25:04,680 Emily is spinning 504 00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:08,759 this tale to investigators about how awful Roger is. 505 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,640 And she's not really getting to the point of why she's there. 506 00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:14,319 And so investigators are just letting 507 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,319 her talk because eventually it's going to come out. 508 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,359 When's the last time, 509 00:25:20,519 --> 00:25:24,079 before Carol's death, that you had been intimate with Roger? 510 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,799 The last weekend in July. 511 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,720 I was so desperate for any contact at all that I had-- 512 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,680 with Charlie that if I had to sleep with a son of a bitch, 513 00:25:34,839 --> 00:25:36,440 I'd sleep with just so I knew what was 514 00:25:36,599 --> 00:25:38,440 going on in Charlie's life. 515 00:25:38,599 --> 00:25:40,240 Investigators understand they 516 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:41,759 have something going on here. 517 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,519 And they realize if they let her keep talking, 518 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,880 she's going to bring them back to the date of Carol's death. 519 00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:52,319 You talked to Roger between the end of July. 520 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:53,759 And the day of Carol's death, did you 521 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,240 have any contacts with him? 522 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,400 I probably talked to him, but I didn't see him. 523 00:25:59,559 --> 00:26:03,119 He made it a point to let me know that he was not home. 524 00:26:04,839 --> 00:26:08,079 The morning that Carol died, he sent me a text message at 4:00 525 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:09,279 o'clock in the morning. 526 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,759 What did the text say? 527 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:16,880 The text said-- 528 00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:24,079 September 15 at 4:07 AM, he sent a text message, you up? 529 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:29,799 I texted back him at 7:02 AM saying, I'm up. 530 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,839 I said, favor to ask, can I borrow 531 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,200 the Ford and the big trailer? 532 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:34,920 I was moving out of my apartment. 533 00:26:35,079 --> 00:26:36,480 He texted back, troubles. 534 00:26:38,079 --> 00:26:41,759 That was around 2:21 in the afternoon. 535 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,480 I said, work, question mark. 536 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,759 I said, get earlier messages, question mark. 537 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:47,880 He said, death. 538 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,000 And I said, never good. 539 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:56,039 Then he texted back at 3:02, at state police Towanda. 540 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,359 I said, what's up? 541 00:26:57,519 --> 00:26:59,279 And he said, troubles. 542 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,440 And then I texted back, prayers. 543 00:27:01,599 --> 00:27:03,079 Let me just back up a little bit. 544 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,799 When he kept saying death, you never asked who? 545 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,079 I never asked who. 546 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:10,759 He didn't say. 547 00:27:12,079 --> 00:27:13,000 She's not asking about 548 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,880 anybody else in the house. 549 00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:17,599 So to me, that's a giant red flag. 550 00:27:17,759 --> 00:27:20,680 You're not asking about your son who lives in the house, 551 00:27:20,839 --> 00:27:23,559 or the woman who's taking care of your child, 552 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,480 or any of the other people that are in that family. 553 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,480 You're not asking about any of them. 554 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,240 I found that to be very unusual. 555 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,759 Pelachick knew Emily had a motive, that she was mad 556 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,079 at Roger, that she didn't like Roger, 557 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:37,720 and she had things to say. 558 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,440 So his curiosity was quite up there. 559 00:27:40,599 --> 00:27:44,200 This was the time to see where the case would take him and 560 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:45,920 keep the person talking. 561 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,920 Let her talk and ask her questions. 562 00:27:50,079 --> 00:27:51,400 What was the only thing 563 00:27:51,559 --> 00:27:54,000 standing in the way between you and Charlie 564 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,160 prior to Carol's death? 565 00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:56,880 Prior to Carol's death? 566 00:27:57,039 --> 00:27:58,000 Roger. 567 00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,000 I would say Carol. 568 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:00,000 No. 569 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,119 She took care of-- 570 00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:02,160 No, not between-- 571 00:28:02,319 --> 00:28:03,680 OK. 572 00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:04,440 The only thing between you and Charlie 573 00:28:04,599 --> 00:28:05,759 was Carol. 574 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,599 OK, because the minute Carol was removed-- 575 00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:10,039 I moved right in. 576 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,160 You certainly had motive to get 577 00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:12,279 Carol out of the picture. 578 00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:15,279 In Emily's mind, 579 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,759 it's obvious at that point that she realized 580 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,160 that she was becoming a suspect, 581 00:28:20,319 --> 00:28:23,119 that they weren't accepting everything she had to say. 582 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:25,559 Were you at the house 583 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,400 on the day of Carol's death? 584 00:28:27,559 --> 00:28:28,960 Yeah-- no. 585 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,119 OK. 586 00:28:30,279 --> 00:28:31,240 OK. 587 00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:35,880 When Emily stammers, and, first, she says, 588 00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:37,920 yes, then quickly correct herself and 589 00:28:38,079 --> 00:28:40,880 says no, they knew at that point 590 00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:43,319 that they had a bigger case on their hands. 591 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,160 This responding, and then 592 00:28:48,319 --> 00:28:51,599 correcting herself shows somebody trying 593 00:28:51,759 --> 00:28:54,160 to strategically manage the interview 594 00:28:54,319 --> 00:28:58,000 situation to give interviewers the response she thinks 595 00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,640 is most appropriate. 596 00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:03,200 And indeed, there are times when these kind of verbal slips 597 00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:07,799 are direct indicators of deception, 598 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,319 of what the real answer is to the question. 599 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,200 Investigators can use that kind of slip 600 00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:19,160 very directly and strategically to pursue that line of inquiry. 601 00:29:19,319 --> 00:29:22,319 And they can use it just as a broad indicator 602 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,319 of somebody who is not telling them the whole truth. 603 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,599 Are you a violent person? 604 00:29:27,759 --> 00:29:29,920 Because if this was not an accidental death-- 605 00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:31,440 Yeah. 606 00:29:31,599 --> 00:29:32,720 - this is the first time this person 607 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,680 has caused harm to someone. 608 00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:36,559 Can I tell you a little bit? 609 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,759 He came into the house one time and he said, 610 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,880 I'm going to take Charlie and leave. 611 00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:43,839 And I picked up the nearest cast iron frying pan, 612 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,240 and I hit him square in the back with it. 613 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,519 And he handed Charlie back to me and left. 614 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,000 The fact that Emily struck Roger with the frying pan 615 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,680 showed that she could let her anger take her to the point 616 00:29:55,839 --> 00:29:57,440 of senseless violence. 617 00:29:57,599 --> 00:29:59,519 And real violence, too. 618 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,200 Not the slap across the face or anything like that. 619 00:30:05,359 --> 00:30:06,960 It was at this point that police 620 00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:10,240 decided to ask Emily to take a lie detector test. 621 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,480 We would like you 622 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:13,920 to take a polygraph at some point just 623 00:30:14,079 --> 00:30:15,079 to say, hey, it's not me. 624 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:16,079 I didn't do anything to it. 625 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,759 Well, I was never at the house. 626 00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:22,119 The two tubes-- one goes in your chest, 627 00:30:22,279 --> 00:30:23,519 one goes lower-- measures your breathing. 628 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,000 Some people breathe more through their chest. 629 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,680 Some people breathe more through their stomach. 630 00:30:28,319 --> 00:30:30,519 The reason we measure these-- 631 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,519 I've waited for my chance 632 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,880 because I sing in the shower. 633 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,359 When she's singing and starting 634 00:30:39,519 --> 00:30:42,440 breathing exercises, I think she was probably 635 00:30:42,599 --> 00:30:45,000 trying to be cute and try to endear herself 636 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:50,000 to the policemen, and make them think that she's very relaxed 637 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,000 and confident and so forth. 638 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:54,519 It's an act. 639 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,480 Emily has gone into this interview as a woman very 640 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,799 confident, very organized, very used to handling authority, 641 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,440 not intimidated in any way. 642 00:31:05,599 --> 00:31:07,319 And I feel that the singing is part 643 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,400 of this attempt to continue to charm the officers. 644 00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:15,240 She believes she can sweet talk her way out of the situation. 645 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,240 The test is about to begin. 646 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:19,759 Please remain still. 647 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,480 Regarding that woman's death, do you intend to answer 648 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,240 each question truthfully? 649 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:24,720 Yes. 650 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,640 They had been interviewing Emily for four hours, 651 00:31:27,799 --> 00:31:31,200 yet nobody had asked her directly if she was 652 00:31:31,359 --> 00:31:32,799 responsible for Carol's death. 653 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,559 Did you cause that woman's death? 654 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,240 No. 655 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,000 Did you cause that woman's death at her home? 656 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,920 No. 657 00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:42,279 The test is about to end. 658 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:43,400 Please remain still. 659 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,240 Did I fail or did I pass or what? 660 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:50,400 You failed. 661 00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:53,759 I failed? 662 00:31:55,279 --> 00:31:56,240 Yes. 663 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:58,400 No. 664 00:31:58,559 --> 00:31:59,880 The point at which 665 00:32:00,039 --> 00:32:01,519 the suspect is told they failed the polygraph, that's 666 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,000 when it's raised the level. 667 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,960 It's made it a confrontational situation. 668 00:32:07,119 --> 00:32:08,920 Were you in that house that night with her? 669 00:32:09,079 --> 00:32:10,440 No. Absolutely not. 670 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,000 Absolutely not. 671 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,160 If that was the truth, 672 00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:15,920 you would have passed the polygraph. 673 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,079 Emily, what happened that night? 674 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,400 Tell us the truth, please. 675 00:32:21,559 --> 00:32:23,359 I wasn't there. 676 00:32:23,519 --> 00:32:25,480 I wasn't there. 677 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,359 Is this the point that you want to be truthful 678 00:32:28,519 --> 00:32:29,480 and tell us what happened? 679 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,480 After failing a polygraph test 680 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,359 about her movements in the hours 681 00:32:39,519 --> 00:32:42,799 before Carol Hickok was found dead at the bottom of a flight 682 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,480 of steps at her home, Emily Bellows-Schaffer 683 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,079 continued to deny any responsibility 684 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:50,319 for Carol's death. 685 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,920 I don't have it in me to hurt anybody. 686 00:32:57,079 --> 00:32:58,640 Not intentionally. 687 00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:01,160 You hit Roger in the back with a skillet. 688 00:33:04,839 --> 00:33:06,759 Listen, we know you were there, OK? 689 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:07,759 I told you that. 690 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:08,880 Can you look at me, please? 691 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:10,880 Please? 692 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,319 We know you were there. 693 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,759 Did you go out and kill her, or anything? 694 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,160 At that point, she 695 00:33:17,319 --> 00:33:20,079 knows they're trying to determine what happened 696 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,519 and that she had responsibility there. 697 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,039 Did you intend for her to die? 698 00:33:26,079 --> 00:33:27,039 No. 699 00:33:28,839 --> 00:33:30,039 What happened that night? 700 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,839 What was your purpose of being there? 701 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:32,960 You can do it. 702 00:33:34,319 --> 00:33:37,000 Emily claimed that, uninvited, 703 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,119 she had gone to the Hickok home that morning to visit her son. 704 00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:43,720 And when she encountered Carol, a fight between the 705 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,000 two unfolded. 706 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:56,920 What did she do to you? 707 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,200 Can you show me? 708 00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:01,839 Was it like this? Like, two of them together? 709 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,400 No, it was like this. 710 00:34:05,559 --> 00:34:07,160 And were you close to her? 711 00:34:07,319 --> 00:34:12,559 I was close enough that I pushed her backwards. 712 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:18,280 She fell backwards into the bedroom, into the dresser. 713 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,400 We wrestled around a little bit. 714 00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:23,599 I think we rolled over the bed once. 715 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,679 Was she saying anything to you during this? 716 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:29,679 Yeah. 717 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,280 My husband, my husband. 718 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,880 I'm not here to see your damned husband. 719 00:34:36,039 --> 00:34:37,159 I'm here to see my son. 720 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,679 The last place I saw her, she was on the floor 721 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:41,800 next to the dresser. 722 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,039 Was she conscious? 723 00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:47,159 She was breathing. 724 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:48,519 OK. 725 00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:50,840 Do you know if she was bleeding at that time? 726 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,000 Well, there was blood on the bedspread. 727 00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:55,840 Did you do something with the bedspread? 728 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,039 I put the bedspread 729 00:34:57,199 --> 00:34:58,480 in the washing machine. 730 00:34:58,639 --> 00:35:00,360 But I don't know how to run the washing machine, 731 00:35:00,519 --> 00:35:03,119 so I just left the bedspread in the washing machine. 732 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,239 She knew that her blood was on those sheets. 733 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,599 And she knew that her blood might be detected sooner 734 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,119 or later on those sheets. 735 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,320 So that's why she headed to the washing machine. 736 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,360 She had some finger marks on her neck. 737 00:35:16,519 --> 00:35:17,559 Does that trigger anything? 738 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,159 Are you trying to get-- 739 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:21,840 I tried to get her off of me. 740 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,320 Did you have blood on you? 741 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:24,360 I don't remember 742 00:35:24,519 --> 00:35:27,119 blood on my hands or my face. 743 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:28,480 I don't remember-- 744 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,320 I don't remember any blood on my clothing. 745 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,320 Asked if she had blood on her, 746 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,800 it's as if Emily forgets herself and goes back in time 747 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,199 and she's there at the moment of the murder. 748 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,760 And she holds up her hands, and it's as if- she's-- 749 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,400 she's looking at the murder weapons. 750 00:35:50,559 --> 00:35:54,079 For a moment, we get this curious indication 751 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:55,760 of absolute guilt. 752 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,599 Did you ever tell Roger what happened? 753 00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:58,760 No. 754 00:35:58,920 --> 00:35:59,760 Did he ever ask you? 755 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:01,079 No. 756 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:02,719 Emily had the opportunity here 757 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,840 to implicate Roger, that he had somehow enabled or assisted 758 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,440 her in murdering Carol. 759 00:36:08,599 --> 00:36:10,400 But she didn't take that opportunity, 760 00:36:10,559 --> 00:36:12,039 and so he was cleared. 761 00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:13,719 How did she get to the bottom of the stairs? 762 00:36:15,039 --> 00:36:15,920 I don't know how she got 763 00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:17,880 to the bottom of the stairs. 764 00:36:18,039 --> 00:36:23,280 She was quite alive the last time I saw her. 765 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,639 After talking to Emily for eight hours, 766 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,440 the troopers decided to end the interview for the day. 767 00:36:30,599 --> 00:36:32,880 Are you going to arrest me and fingerprint 768 00:36:33,039 --> 00:36:34,280 me and send me to jail? 769 00:36:35,559 --> 00:36:36,320 You are going to have 770 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:37,400 to face the music to this. 771 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,039 At this point, they read Emily her rights. 772 00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:44,199 They let her know she is under arrest, 773 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,960 and they take her to the county jail. 774 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,880 The following day, investigators 775 00:36:50,039 --> 00:36:53,400 visited Emily to confirm her videotaped confession 776 00:36:53,559 --> 00:36:54,920 in writing. 777 00:36:55,079 --> 00:36:56,840 During the videotaped interview, 778 00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:58,880 Emily tried to claim that Carol had 779 00:36:59,039 --> 00:37:01,239 confronted her in the hallway, and 780 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,320 it wound up that Carol died. 781 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,079 The next day, she did not change that version. 782 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:08,880 The only part she changed was instead 783 00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:12,400 of saying Carol was alive when she left the house, she 784 00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:14,199 admitted that Carol was dead, that she had 785 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:15,639 taken Carol out of the house. 786 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,079 And she acknowledged at that point 787 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,800 that she had moved Carol's body down to the foot of the stairs. 788 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,480 All police needed now was 789 00:37:25,639 --> 00:37:29,840 DNA evidence proving that Emily was at the scene of the crime. 790 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,119 The sheets and bedding and blood on the scene 791 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,840 was analyzed by the state police laboratory. 792 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,639 And it was determined that some of the blood 793 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,280 there was Emily's blood, which, of course, 794 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:42,719 placed Emily at the scene. 795 00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:47,719 Emily's confession and DNA evidence 796 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,719 meant that she faced a lengthy prison 797 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:54,360 sentence for Carol's death, if found guilty of homicide. 798 00:37:54,519 --> 00:37:57,679 But because Emily denied the charge of murder, 799 00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:58,880 the case went to court. 800 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,239 In August 2012, nearly two years 801 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,800 after Carol Hickok's death, Emily 802 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,960 stood trial for the murder of her son's stepmom. 803 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,280 I'm tapped to be there every day. 804 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,880 I show up at the courthouse at least a half-hour 805 00:38:16,039 --> 00:38:18,679 beforehand every day, because it was more than just 806 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,280 a story at that point. 807 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,000 I had to let the community know what was going on. 808 00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:24,199 It was very important 809 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:25,800 for me to be at this trial. 810 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,119 I felt that I needed to be there for justice for Carol. 811 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:34,559 She was an innocent victim that should be alive today. 812 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,559 I wanted to know the truth because there 813 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,960 had been so many stories going around, 814 00:38:39,119 --> 00:38:41,360 this and that, and the other thing that I know the truth 815 00:38:41,519 --> 00:38:42,679 should come out in the trial. 816 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,800 And I needed to be there for those reasons. 817 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,039 Something I found incredibly remarkable 818 00:38:49,199 --> 00:38:51,840 was that there was no one for Emily. 819 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,760 She has no support in that courtroom, whatsoever. 820 00:38:56,119 --> 00:38:59,239 Emily was incredibly stoic during the trial. 821 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,159 She showed very little emotion. 822 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,280 Any emotion she showed, she would tip her head down 823 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:05,880 and she would talk to her attorney. 824 00:39:06,039 --> 00:39:07,360 And that was about it. 825 00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:10,239 She was very silent through that trial. 826 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,039 Well, the one thing I remember clearly about Emily, 827 00:39:13,199 --> 00:39:14,280 I did not see remorse. 828 00:39:15,519 --> 00:39:17,840 I never saw a bit of remorse. 829 00:39:20,559 --> 00:39:25,679 That, I could not fathom and I could not get past. 830 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,920 During the trial, the prosecution 831 00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:31,199 played Emily's videotape confession to the jury 832 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,360 before unveiling another key piece of evidence. 833 00:39:35,519 --> 00:39:37,559 The most interesting part of that trial 834 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,239 was the introduction of Emily's diary, 835 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,199 because you could really see where she began to unravel. 836 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,880 One excerpt read, she's referring to Roger here, 837 00:39:48,039 --> 00:39:51,880 and you can get a sense of how angry she is toward Roger. 838 00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:55,280 "I wish I had a 2" by 4", I'd hit you upside your head and 839 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,199 scream at your lifeless body. 840 00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:58,199 Now, we're even. 841 00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:59,519 Because I died a little. 842 00:39:59,679 --> 00:40:01,480 Every single day you have kept us apart." 843 00:40:03,159 --> 00:40:05,159 And then she goes on to say, "There 844 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,320 will be no I love yous until this situation is resolved. 845 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,519 How/why on earth would/could I love anyone who could 846 00:40:12,679 --> 00:40:15,760 so carelessly, heartlessly do this to me, who would 847 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,400 be so blind and selfish." 848 00:40:20,519 --> 00:40:22,719 The things that Emily put in her diary 849 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,639 showed that she very much resented 850 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,039 that she didn't have much. 851 00:40:28,199 --> 00:40:30,239 Carol was the reason that Roger didn't need 852 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:31,760 her to help raise the boy. 853 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,519 Carol was the reason that Roger didn't want to live 854 00:40:34,679 --> 00:40:36,360 with her, and so forth. 855 00:40:36,519 --> 00:40:38,840 So she wanted to get rid of Carol. 856 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,400 Six days before the murder, Emily wrote, 857 00:40:41,559 --> 00:40:44,000 "I must do what I must do." 858 00:40:44,159 --> 00:40:45,599 The information in the diaries 859 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,119 pulled everything together and brought real context 860 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,280 to what it was Emily was doing when 861 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,679 she went to the home of Roger Hickok and Carol Hickok. 862 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,880 The prosecution also highlighted 863 00:40:59,039 --> 00:41:01,119 the evidence found by the coroner 864 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,800 when he revisited the autopsy photographs. 865 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,360 A very small, but very significant 866 00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:13,440 part of the evidence was little marks, cuts on Carol's neck, 867 00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:15,960 where she was trying to pry away 868 00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:19,360 Emily's fingers, trying to get those fingers off her neck. 869 00:41:19,519 --> 00:41:21,800 And it actually cut into her own skin. 870 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,679 It showed, among other things, that strangulation 871 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,079 was the cause of death. 872 00:41:28,599 --> 00:41:30,000 The prosecution argued 873 00:41:30,159 --> 00:41:33,000 that the only reason Emily went to Carol's house 874 00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:36,000 on the day of her death was to commit murder. 875 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:38,760 The evidence was clear. 876 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,960 She had no need to go to the house to see Charlie. 877 00:41:41,119 --> 00:41:42,880 She could have done that at lunch. 878 00:41:43,039 --> 00:41:45,159 She had no reason to go there to see Carol, 879 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,239 because Carol wouldn't have wanted to talk to her. 880 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,880 That she went to the house, went into the house 881 00:41:50,039 --> 00:41:53,239 and killed Carol, shows that that was 882 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:54,639 her objective from the start. 883 00:41:56,199 --> 00:41:58,519 Emily's confession took herself as far 884 00:41:58,679 --> 00:42:02,719 as the offense of voluntary manslaughter, that is causing 885 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,320 a death during a fight. 886 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,880 The overall circumstances of the case 887 00:42:08,039 --> 00:42:10,119 were such that it was undeniable 888 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,000 that this was murder. 889 00:42:13,159 --> 00:42:16,519 This wasn't-- this wasn't a fight that went bad. 890 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:24,239 On August 10, 2012, the jury retired to deliberate. 891 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,480 And at 4:00 PM, they returned with their verdict. 892 00:42:29,159 --> 00:42:31,519 The jury found Emily guilty 893 00:42:31,679 --> 00:42:35,480 of second degree murder, the felony offense of burglary, 894 00:42:35,639 --> 00:42:36,639 and other charges. 895 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,039 On September 27, 2012, Emily Bellows-Schaffer 896 00:42:42,199 --> 00:42:44,880 was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility 897 00:42:45,039 --> 00:42:46,280 of parole. 898 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,480 And she remains incarcerated. 899 00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,639 This tragedy began when Roger began a dalliance 900 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,800 with Emily Bellows-Schaffer that wound up with Emily 901 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:03,880 involved in their lives. 902 00:43:04,039 --> 00:43:09,599 But the murder itself is all the fault and crime 903 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,440 of Emily Bellows-Schaffer. 904 00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:14,239 And that's where guilt was found. 905 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,000 And that's where the true and complete blame lies. 906 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,000 Carol's death was truly tragic. 907 00:43:22,159 --> 00:43:25,320 A horrible thing happened to a very good person 908 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,800 because of someone else's anger, 909 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:32,639 greed, selfish intentions. 910 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,280 Carol will always be remembered 911 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,400 as a pillar in this community. 912 00:43:36,559 --> 00:43:40,760 I never met Carol Hickok, but I regard 913 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,159 her as a wonderful woman. 914 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,079 And almost a saint, because I don't know how many women could 915 00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,440 take in the child of their husband's mistress 916 00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:53,599 and carry on and love that child as if the child 917 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:54,760 were her own. 918 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,559 I give her a lot of respect for that. 919 00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:02,159 Carol was strong. 920 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,639 What she did, she did 100%-- 921 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:09,480 her business, her hunting, her mothering, her cooking, 922 00:44:09,639 --> 00:44:11,320 her marriage vows. 923 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:16,719 And the way she loved Charlie spoke volumes-- 924 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,639 Just spoke volumes. 925 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,039 She was faithful in friendships. 926 00:44:21,199 --> 00:44:22,159 She was kind. 927 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:25,119 Just 100% her girl. 928 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:26,199 That's all I can tell you. 929 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:27,800 She just was great. 71107

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