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A deadly fall
in rural Pennsylvania.
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A small town left
shell-shocked by the death
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of a loving wife and mother.
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00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,920
Carol's death
rocked the community.
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00:00:29,079 --> 00:00:31,960
It was just so unexpected
and so surprising.
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I think both of us
felt sick in our stomachs
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and emotional,
like, just a shock.
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00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,759
Was it simply
a tragic accident--
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00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,560
Perhaps Carol somehow fallen
in the bedroom and bled.
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00:00:45,719 --> 00:00:49,079
Gone outside for fresh air,
and stumbled down the stairs
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00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:50,200
and died.
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00:00:51,439 --> 00:00:52,439
- or was it murder?
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00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:54,399
Were
you at the house
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on the day of Carol's death?
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Yes-- no.
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OK.
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00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,200
OK.
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They knew at that
point that they had
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a bigger case on their hands.
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Carol Hickok was born
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00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,439
Carol Miller on June 30, 1945.
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She was the second
oldest of 10 children.
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Carol, to help her
family, took a job
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delivering
newspapers, and that's
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where she met Roger Hickok.
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And Carol and Roger Hickok
married on May 9, 1964.
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The couple went
on to have three children
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and raised them
in rural Pennsylvania.
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00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,599
My name
is Betty Thoren,
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00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:59,359
and I first met Carol
in 1968 at church.
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We were new when we moved
here to Canton, Pennsylvania,
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00:02:04,319 --> 00:02:07,359
and she was one of the first
gals that I met.
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00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,599
Canton is a very
small rural town.
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I believe the population
when we came was about 3,000.
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00:02:15,439 --> 00:02:19,439
And you had 30 miles plus
to go either way north or south
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to a larger city to shop.
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00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,960
And people often know what's
going on in your business
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00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:26,439
before you know it.
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It's
a very tight knit community.
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Everybody knows everybody.
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00:02:29,759 --> 00:02:31,840
And, you know, there's small
mom and pop kind of
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00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,319
businesses there.
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00:02:33,479 --> 00:02:35,120
And then you go
to the outer lands.
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It's very rural
and it's very bucolic.
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00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,599
You know, it's dotted
with beautiful red barns.
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And at one time, it was
a large dairy community.
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There were a lot of farms here.
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Roger had
a farm, and Roger became
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00:02:47,879 --> 00:02:50,080
a very successful veal farmer.
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00:02:51,479 --> 00:02:55,240
Carol also had her own
little veal business,
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00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,599
and she did very
well with that.
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She was respected.
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She was a businesswoman.
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00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,479
She ran the business for them.
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She did a very good
job, and was a good mom
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00:03:06,439 --> 00:03:07,599
to her three children.
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00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,319
Life seemed pretty
good for Roger and Carol.
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But in 1996, their relationship
changed forever.
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00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,439
By all accounts,
you know, Roger and
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00:03:22,599 --> 00:03:23,919
Carol were living a good life.
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00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:25,520
She was a good wife.
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00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,919
She was a devoted mother,
well revered in the community.
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00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,000
And for one reason or another,
Roger met Emily, and
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00:03:33,159 --> 00:03:35,599
they began a 15-year affair.
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00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,919
After Emily
Bellows-Schaffer and
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00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,439
Roger started
a relationship, he made
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00:03:42,599 --> 00:03:44,080
no secret of their affair.
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Roger would
spend time with Emily,
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00:03:47,439 --> 00:03:49,919
and he would go
home with Carol.
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And she would make these
wonderful meals and pies
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and welcome him home.
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And then he would be with
Emily the other times.
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And there was a cabin
above their home
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00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,599
that Emily did stay
in from time to time.
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00:04:05,759 --> 00:04:08,120
Carol did know that
Emily was there.
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00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:09,479
She told me.
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Not everyone could do
that, or would do that.
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00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,240
She did that, and she
chose to do it
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00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:14,919
because she thought it
was right, regardless
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of what anyone said.
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00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,439
A mutual friend told
my husband that he
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00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:26,319
knew that Roger had a little
boy, a child with Emily.
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00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:27,839
It was never
difficult to believe,
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00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,680
but my husband assured
me that it was so,
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and that they had a little boy.
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00:04:32,959 --> 00:04:35,399
The existence
of Roger and Emily's son,
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00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,360
Charlie, would
eventually be learned
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00:04:37,519 --> 00:04:41,319
by Bradford County District
Attorney Daniel Barrett.
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00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,480
After the son
was born, at one point,
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Roger had started
a divorce from Carol.
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00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,560
But Emily, I guess, abandoned
Roger at that point,
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00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,160
and then Roger
and Carol reconciled.
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00:04:53,319 --> 00:04:55,759
She said, people
want to know why I'm still
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00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,680
here, basically, with Roger.
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00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:02,519
She said, I don't feel that the
Lord wants me to divorce Roger.
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00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:08,079
I know I'm to stay here, and
that's what I'm going to do.
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00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:09,560
And then when
Emily wasn't taking
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00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,600
very good care
of her child, Roger
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00:05:12,759 --> 00:05:15,639
got involved in seeking
custody of the child
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because the child needed care.
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00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,800
Carol was a religious woman.
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00:05:20,959 --> 00:05:22,920
She enjoyed children.
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And she willingly accepted
Charlie into her home.
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And they built their life
around the child.
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00:05:32,879 --> 00:05:34,519
Carol,
Roger, and Charlie
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00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,879
were living together
as a family,
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when, in the early hours
of September 15, 2010,
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everything changed.
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An occasional insomniac, Roger
was having trouble sleeping.
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00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:49,800
On the morning of the 15th,
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00:05:49,959 --> 00:05:51,560
Roger Hickok woke up.
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And as he commonly did, he
headed to a nearby coffee shop
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00:05:55,439 --> 00:05:57,439
to get coffee and talk
with his friends.
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00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,199
After arriving
at the cafe in Canton,
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00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,639
Roger sat and drank
coffee for several hours.
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00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,480
And after a while,
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it was getting near
school bus time,
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00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,720
so he called home
to make sure that his son
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was on the school bus.
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His wife didn't answer.
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00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,839
His son answered the phone.
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00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,399
And his son said
that he didn't know
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where Mimi was, because Mimi is
what he called his stepmother.
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00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,560
A few minutes later, Charlie
calls his father and says,
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00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,079
mom is outside
at the bottom of the steps.
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00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:34,879
She's unresponsive.
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00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:36,199
She's not moving.
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00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:37,920
I need you here.
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00:06:38,079 --> 00:06:44,079
Roger then was stunned
and called for 911 help
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00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,600
because he knew something
horrible had to have happened.
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00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,399
Roger
raced home to find
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00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,720
Carol at the bottom
of some steps,
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00:07:16,879 --> 00:07:19,240
unresponsive
and covered in blood
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00:07:19,399 --> 00:07:23,480
from what looked like a severe
head wound after a tragic fall.
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00:07:23,639 --> 00:07:25,680
Carol was showing
no signs of life,
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00:07:25,839 --> 00:07:28,480
and Roger recognized
that she was dead.
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00:07:28,639 --> 00:07:30,519
He and his son
just said a prayer
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00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,639
and waited for the emergency
personnel to arrive.
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00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,079
At 8:16
AM, the coroner
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00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,879
arrived to find Carol Hickok's
body wrapped in a blanket.
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00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,439
And she was officially
pronounced dead at the scene.
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News of Carol's
sudden, tragic death
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00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,680
spread quickly
to family and friends.
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00:07:57,839 --> 00:08:00,959
We received
a phone call about 20
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00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,319
after 8:00 from
a friend who told
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00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,279
us that Carol had passed away.
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00:08:07,439 --> 00:08:09,600
I think both of us felt
sick in our stomachs
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00:08:09,759 --> 00:08:12,240
and emotional,
like, just a shock.
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00:08:12,399 --> 00:08:13,360
My husband and I--
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00:08:13,519 --> 00:08:16,959
Larry and I just,
just sat down.
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00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,399
And how could this be?
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Carol's
family were devastated
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00:08:21,759 --> 00:08:23,079
by her sudden death.
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They struggled to comprehend
how they were going
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to move on with their life.
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They just said it was the most
heartbreaking thing that they'd
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00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:31,800
ever had to comprehend.
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Carol's
death rocked the community.
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00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,679
It was just so unexpected
and so surprising
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00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,799
because she was
a vibrant, healthy woman.
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00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:45,399
And here, something so
seemingly simple took her out.
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Carol's
death appeared
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to be a tragic accident
from a fatal fall
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00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,240
down the rear
steps of her home.
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00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:55,159
But when first responders
entered the house,
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they found there might
be more to the story
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than they realized.
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00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,000
In the master bedroom,
it became very clear
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00:09:03,159 --> 00:09:05,120
that something big happened.
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00:09:06,519 --> 00:09:08,360
There was a lot of blood.
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00:09:08,519 --> 00:09:10,159
There was blood
on the corner of the dresser.
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There was blood on the floor.
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00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,759
Investigators found
blood on the bed,
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00:09:16,919 --> 00:09:19,360
but the comforter had
been removed from the bed
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and placed
in a washing machine,
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00:09:21,639 --> 00:09:23,039
still covered in blood.
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The washing machine
had not been turned on.
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That was a mystery.
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00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,159
And for the police,
there was an effort
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00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,320
to determine what can we see,
what might tell us something
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00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,279
that had happened here.
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00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,279
And the circumstances
were quite strange.
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00:09:44,519 --> 00:09:47,000
Despite the discovery
of a large amount of blood
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00:09:47,159 --> 00:09:50,600
in the bedroom and on the
comforter found in the washer,
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00:09:50,759 --> 00:09:53,559
investigators still
considered the possibility
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00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,919
that Carol's death
had been accidental.
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00:09:57,639 --> 00:10:00,039
They began to
theorize that perhaps Carol had
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00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,000
somehow fallen
in the bedroom and bled,
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00:10:03,159 --> 00:10:08,799
tried to pick up the clothing
and sheets that she bled on,
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00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,399
gone outside for fresh air,
and stumbled down the stairs
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00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:13,519
and died.
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00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,000
It made no sense
that this woman
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00:10:17,159 --> 00:10:20,080
would have been the victim
of some sort of violence
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00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,879
because there was no sign
that anybody had been there.
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00:10:23,039 --> 00:10:26,480
And there's also no
reason why anybody
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00:10:26,639 --> 00:10:29,559
would drag the woman out on the
porch or left her in the lawn.
197
00:10:31,919 --> 00:10:33,559
But investigators also had
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00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,720
to follow protocol
for an unexplained death
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00:10:36,879 --> 00:10:39,240
and treat it like
a homicide investigation
200
00:10:39,399 --> 00:10:41,240
until proven otherwise.
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00:10:41,399 --> 00:10:44,360
In cases where
there's a possible injury,
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00:10:44,519 --> 00:10:47,240
there's always the questions
that have to be asked--
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00:10:47,399 --> 00:10:49,600
who would want
to kill this person?
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00:10:49,759 --> 00:10:52,840
The question here would be
to look at the family, look
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00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,639
at the husband,
and anybody that
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00:10:55,799 --> 00:10:59,960
might have a grudge or a reason
to benefit from Carol's death.
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00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:03,759
With investigators
open to the possibility
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00:11:03,919 --> 00:11:06,200
that Carol may
have been murdered,
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00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,840
Roger became
suspect number one.
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00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,320
After Carol Hickok was
found dead at the bottom
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00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:26,120
of a flight of steps at her
home on September 15, 2010,
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00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:29,279
investigators went to speak
to her husband, Roger,
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00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,120
to see if he could
help them work out
214
00:11:31,279 --> 00:11:35,200
if her death was the result
of an accidental fall
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00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,320
or something more sinister.
216
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:40,080
When
police arrived
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00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,080
at the house they were carrying
on their investigation,
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00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,159
Roger was sat smoking a cigar.
219
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,519
And this kind of jumped
out to the authorities
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00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:48,080
as quite strange behavior.
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00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,120
He was smoking a cigar
just yards away from where
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00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:52,799
his wife's dead body lay.
223
00:11:54,799 --> 00:11:57,080
Police took
Roger to the local station
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00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:58,799
for an interview.
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00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:00,279
Roger
is being questioned
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00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:01,919
because he's the husband.
227
00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,240
He's the last person to have
seen Carol alive that morning.
228
00:12:05,399 --> 00:12:07,639
So, naturally, they
had questions for him.
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00:12:09,919 --> 00:12:11,440
Roger
explained to the police
230
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,559
that he routinely would wake up
early and want to do something,
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00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:17,000
and would go and get coffee.
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00:12:18,879 --> 00:12:20,840
They
immediately deployed officers
233
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:25,000
to the coffee shop to check the
CCTV and verify Roger's story.
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00:12:26,159 --> 00:12:27,480
Roger had arrived
235
00:12:27,639 --> 00:12:30,120
at the coffee place sometime
in the range of 4:00 AM.
236
00:12:30,279 --> 00:12:33,320
It was before
daylight, quite early.
237
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,360
And it was easy to check
whether he'd been there.
238
00:12:36,519 --> 00:12:40,480
The records of the coffee
shop could confirm that.
239
00:12:40,639 --> 00:12:42,799
When questioned
about the bloodied blanket that
240
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,759
had been left in the washer,
Roger said, I don't even do
241
00:12:45,919 --> 00:12:47,039
the washing in our household.
242
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,039
I wouldn't even know
how to use the machine.
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00:12:50,399 --> 00:12:52,360
Police probed
further to ask Roger
244
00:12:52,519 --> 00:12:53,639
what had happened
that night and
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00:12:53,799 --> 00:12:54,840
had there been
any disagreements
246
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,320
between the couple.
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00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,000
He said, no, and that
they'd gone to bed as normal
248
00:12:58,159 --> 00:13:00,159
between 9:00 to 9:30 PM.
249
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,360
And it was at that
point of 4:00 AM that
250
00:13:02,519 --> 00:13:03,919
he decided to leave the house.
251
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,519
And that was the last time
that he saw his wife alive.
252
00:13:09,639 --> 00:13:12,799
Early indications
suggest that Carol Hickok died
253
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,759
sometime between
4:00 AM and 7:00 AM,
254
00:13:16,919 --> 00:13:19,519
so Roger's timeline stacked up.
255
00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,679
Officers then asked Roger to
take a polygraph test to verify
256
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:24,879
what he had told them.
257
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,519
The major
benefit of polygraph
258
00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,840
is that it assists police
in eliminating suspects.
259
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,480
Roger's willingness
to take the polygraph
260
00:13:35,639 --> 00:13:37,399
was, of course, a good sign.
261
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,759
The police
know that the impact
262
00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:46,360
of their suggestion
of a polygraph test
263
00:13:46,519 --> 00:13:50,240
can be significant
on a potential suspect.
264
00:13:50,399 --> 00:13:55,559
So they often use the polygraph
as a tool to elicit a reaction,
265
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,320
to see what reaction they get.
266
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:02,639
Someone who readily agrees
to take a polygraph test,
267
00:14:02,799 --> 00:14:05,919
usually, this indicates that
this is someone who wants
268
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,519
to prove their innocence.
269
00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,039
Roger
Hickok was on hard
270
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:12,559
and blood pressure medication.
271
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,200
He was 65 years old.
272
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,080
And the medications
are well-known to mess
273
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,759
up polygraph results.
274
00:14:19,919 --> 00:14:23,000
So his polygraph result
was inconclusive.
275
00:14:24,399 --> 00:14:25,799
Despite
Roger's willingness
276
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,399
to take the polygraph test,
the inconclusive result
277
00:14:29,559 --> 00:14:32,360
meant police continued
to treat him as a suspect.
278
00:14:33,679 --> 00:14:34,799
The investigations
279
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,240
stayed with Roger
because he was
280
00:14:37,399 --> 00:14:38,679
the other person in the home.
281
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,279
He was married to her.
282
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,039
So he remained somebody
that might have,
283
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,399
in one way or another, had
some benefit or some motive.
284
00:14:47,559 --> 00:14:50,000
Police needed to consider
all possible suspects
285
00:14:50,159 --> 00:14:53,039
at this stage, and that
included Roger's son, Charlie.
286
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:54,360
Even though he
was 11 years old,
287
00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:57,120
he was the person who
discovered Carol's body.
288
00:14:57,279 --> 00:14:59,679
So the police had to ask
him some questions
289
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:01,240
to rule him out as a suspect.
290
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,840
However, Charlie's
story that he was asleep
291
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,720
during Carol's death checked
out, so he was very quickly
292
00:15:07,879 --> 00:15:09,039
ruled out as a suspect.
293
00:15:10,679 --> 00:15:13,120
Diving deeper
into Carol and Roger's family
294
00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:16,840
background, police then found
out about Roger's affair
295
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,279
with Emily--
296
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,120
a revelation that dramatically
changed the course
297
00:15:21,279 --> 00:15:22,360
of their investigation.
298
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,200
They found out that Charlie
wasn't Carol's biological son,
299
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,919
and Charlie was Emily's son.
300
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,399
Carol Hickok's
family, of course,
301
00:15:35,559 --> 00:15:38,480
had a fair amount
of resentment,
302
00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:42,559
I guess, about Roger's
whole involvement with Emily
303
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,679
and the pain it
must have caused
304
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,440
Carol over the years and the
disruption to the family life.
305
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,360
Once the investigators
found out
306
00:15:50,519 --> 00:15:53,600
about this complicated
situation, possibly a love
307
00:15:53,759 --> 00:15:55,559
triangle, it then
gave them a bit
308
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,240
of a motive to question
whether Emily had anything
309
00:15:58,399 --> 00:15:59,559
to do with Carol's death.
310
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,080
Roger, however, said that he
had no relationship with
311
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,519
Emily anymore.
312
00:16:05,679 --> 00:16:07,480
They hadn't been in contact
for a long time, and
313
00:16:07,639 --> 00:16:10,000
that she didn't have
anything to do with Charlie.
314
00:16:10,159 --> 00:16:11,960
Meanwhile,
police eagerly
315
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,840
awaited the results
of Carol's autopsy,
316
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,720
hoping that it would
reveal whether she
317
00:16:16,879 --> 00:16:19,600
had died from
an accidental fatal fall,
318
00:16:19,759 --> 00:16:23,679
or if her injuries suggested
foul play and the possibility
319
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:25,720
that she was pushed
to her death.
320
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:28,799
When
the autopsy comes back,
321
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,159
it showed the blunt
force trauma to her head.
322
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,320
It showed bruising on her
torso and her body.
323
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,639
But at the end of the day,
the cause of death
324
00:16:36,799 --> 00:16:38,639
was undetermined.
325
00:16:38,799 --> 00:16:41,200
It is a huge disappointment
for investigators
326
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,279
because now they have no
idea how Carol really died.
327
00:16:48,759 --> 00:16:50,279
Nine days after
Carol's death,
328
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,559
Trooper James Kerrick went
over to interview Emily
329
00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,720
at her home, which is around
an hour away in Pennsylvania
330
00:16:56,879 --> 00:16:57,960
from where Carol lived.
331
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,399
After this two-hour
long interview,
332
00:17:01,559 --> 00:17:04,200
Kerrick said that
Emily was intelligent,
333
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:05,359
she was cooperative.
334
00:17:05,519 --> 00:17:07,759
But he did notice
this resentment
335
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,039
that seemed to still be there
towards Roger and Carol,
336
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,759
especially because of her
lack of contact with Charlie.
337
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,880
When asked directly
if she had any involvement
338
00:17:18,039 --> 00:17:21,319
in Carol's death, Emily
simply answered no.
339
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,160
Emily
told Trooper Kerrick
340
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:26,240
that she could not have
got to Canton to commit
341
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,000
murder because there
was no gas in her tank,
342
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:30,160
and she had no money.
343
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:32,599
When
he left that day,
344
00:17:32,759 --> 00:17:34,839
Trooper Kerrick knew
that although Emily
345
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,559
could have had something
to do with Carol's death,
346
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,279
he had no evidence
at this point.
347
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,839
So with no clear leads,
all the authorities
348
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,599
could do was wait for the
forensic and lab results
349
00:17:45,759 --> 00:17:47,079
to come in.
350
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,400
Three months
after Carol's death,
351
00:17:49,559 --> 00:17:53,640
with investigators no closer to
determining how she had died,
352
00:17:53,799 --> 00:17:57,440
the coroner decided
to revisit the case.
353
00:17:57,599 --> 00:17:59,799
It's
not common for a coroner
354
00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:01,880
to revisit a case,
but there was just
355
00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:04,720
something about this
case that didn't
356
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:06,880
sit right with investigators.
357
00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:09,039
The coroner is going
through the photos again,
358
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:14,200
and he notices that there are
scratches to Carol's neck,
359
00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,119
and it almost looks
like defense wounds.
360
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,599
Suddenly,
investigators had
361
00:18:20,759 --> 00:18:22,440
a potential cause of death.
362
00:18:24,039 --> 00:18:26,640
If their suspicions were
right, then, at some point,
363
00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:29,000
Carol had been
fighting for her life
364
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,079
while somebody had
their hands around her throat.
365
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,079
What had once seemed
like a mystery
366
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,319
was now a murder investigation.
367
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,559
After discovering
that they were now
368
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,319
dealing with a homicide,
police received
369
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,799
a phone call that revealed yet
another twist to the story.
370
00:18:51,079 --> 00:18:52,960
Carol's brother
contacted the police
371
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,559
to say that Roger and Charlie
had now moved to Roger's home
372
00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,000
in Crystal River in Florida,
and that Emily was
373
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,680
living with them there too.
374
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:04,640
When it became known
375
00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:08,319
that Roger had gone to Florida
with Emily Bellows-Schaffer and
376
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,799
their son, it was something
of interest to the police.
377
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,799
This was very conflicting
to what the investigators
378
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:17,480
originally thought.
379
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,960
They had been told that Emily
had nothing to do with Charlie,
380
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,079
yet now she had
practically stepped
381
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,920
in to be another mom
to him, all living together
382
00:19:25,079 --> 00:19:27,440
as a family under one roof.
383
00:19:27,599 --> 00:19:31,559
And also, it seemed possible
that Emily and Roger all along
384
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,039
had been carrying
on their relationship,
385
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,039
and that actually
it had been Carol
386
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:37,440
who was getting in the way.
387
00:19:39,559 --> 00:19:40,920
The news
of Rogers move
388
00:19:41,079 --> 00:19:43,359
to Florida with
his ex-lover sent
389
00:19:43,519 --> 00:19:48,119
shock waves through Carol's
family and the local community.
390
00:19:48,279 --> 00:19:50,200
People who had reasons
391
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:52,599
to resent either
Roger's conduct or
392
00:19:52,759 --> 00:19:57,000
Emily's conduct over the years
found a good opportunity
393
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:02,880
to use the trip to Florida as
a reason to justify suspicions
394
00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:06,559
that Roger, or Roger
and Emily, or Emily had been
395
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,200
involved in Carol's death.
396
00:20:19,079 --> 00:20:21,200
Just three
months after Carol Hickok
397
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,319
was found dead
at the foot of the steps
398
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,599
outside her home
in Canton, Pennsylvania,
399
00:20:26,759 --> 00:20:30,240
her husband Roger had moved to
Florida with his former lover,
400
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:31,880
Emily, and their son.
401
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,279
But without enough
evidence, police
402
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,720
were unable to bring
them back to Pennsylvania
403
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,160
to be interviewed.
404
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,960
Seven months later,
on July 19, 2011,
405
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,160
police received
a call that would
406
00:20:47,319 --> 00:20:49,359
turn the case on its head.
407
00:20:49,519 --> 00:20:52,680
Police get a phone
call from Emily Schaffer.
408
00:20:52,839 --> 00:20:55,720
And she says she has
something interesting to tell
409
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,279
them about Carol Hickok.
410
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,200
Emily had explained
to police that she
411
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:01,880
and Roger had a falling out.
412
00:21:03,559 --> 00:21:06,200
She told officers
that following their argument,
413
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,480
Roger had taken Charlie
back to their home
414
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,680
in Canton, Pennsylvania.
415
00:21:10,839 --> 00:21:11,720
That was kind
416
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,319
of the last straw for Emily.
417
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,279
She was very frustrated.
418
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,960
She was missing her child.
419
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,880
The reason that Emily
Schaffer was even in town
420
00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:22,160
was because she had
a court hearing to go
421
00:21:22,319 --> 00:21:24,440
over custody of young Charlie.
422
00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:31,359
Eager to speak
to Emily about Carol's death,
423
00:21:31,519 --> 00:21:33,400
police collected her
from the courthouse
424
00:21:33,559 --> 00:21:35,720
for a voluntary
interview at the station.
425
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,799
Emily arrives
at the police station,
426
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,079
and they bring her
into an office rather
427
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:42,799
than an interrogation room.
428
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,200
So Emily was not under
arrest at this point.
429
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,119
This is just a conversation.
430
00:21:48,279 --> 00:21:51,200
They have no idea what
she's about to tell them.
431
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:54,960
Trooper
Dave Pelachick
432
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,759
led the interview, with
Trooper Nathan Lewis
433
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,200
also in attendance.
434
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,359
We received
a phone call from you today.
435
00:22:02,519 --> 00:22:04,039
Yes.
436
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:05,720
You wanted to
share some information with us.
437
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:06,839
Yes.
438
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,319
She
arrives with a backpack
439
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,039
full of paperwork,
and troopers want
440
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,319
to hear what she has to say.
441
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,440
Roger
Hickok and I have had--
442
00:22:17,599 --> 00:22:20,400
we've known each
other over 15 years.
443
00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:24,119
And it was a rocky 15 years.
444
00:22:24,279 --> 00:22:28,279
As time progressed,
he became more
445
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,920
and more angry and violent.
446
00:22:32,079 --> 00:22:33,759
Do you think
he's capable of something,
447
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,359
of causing harm to someone?
448
00:22:35,519 --> 00:22:36,880
At first, I
thought, you know,
449
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:40,000
there's no way Roger
could have done this.
450
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:45,240
But the more I see that he
still has the hair trigger
451
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,559
temper and the split
personality,
452
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,720
I think anything is possible.
453
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,680
She's afraid of Roger,
all of a sudden.
454
00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:54,480
After a 15-year
relationship where
455
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,359
they're loving each other
and they have a child,
456
00:22:56,519 --> 00:22:57,599
suddenly she's afraid.
457
00:22:57,759 --> 00:22:59,880
He's abusive, she's
scared of him.
458
00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:02,000
She doesn't know
what's going to happen.
459
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:07,319
And it looks like she's trying
to protect herself from Roger.
460
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,519
He is a narcissist,
and he is a sociopath.
461
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,400
Emily then went on
to talk about Carol's history
462
00:23:14,559 --> 00:23:15,839
with Charlie and Roger.
463
00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:18,720
Prior
to Carol's death,
464
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,880
she was the primary
caretaker of Charlie.
465
00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:23,480
After Carol's death,
I went to Florida
466
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,880
with him, primarily
to take care of Charlie
467
00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:28,319
because he does not.
468
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,880
It
becomes very clear that Emily
469
00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:33,640
is no longer Roger's ally.
470
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,160
When Roger
and Emily and their child
471
00:23:37,319 --> 00:23:39,759
went to Florida,
the relationship with them
472
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,119
didn't develop.
473
00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:42,839
It wasn't, at last, we
were together, at least
474
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,960
as far as Roger was concerned.
475
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,759
Emily had nothing
really to call a job.
476
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,039
She was living
from hand to mouth.
477
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,279
And eventually,
as the winter ended,
478
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,119
he headed back to Pennsylvania
and made it clear
479
00:23:54,279 --> 00:23:56,079
that he wasn't bringing
Emily with him.
480
00:23:59,079 --> 00:24:00,119
In the middle
481
00:24:00,279 --> 00:24:01,839
of the interview,
as she's carrying
482
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,200
on about how awful Roger
is, her cell phone rings.
483
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,799
This is Roger
calling right now.
484
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,519
Roger had called
Emily to ask her out for lunch.
485
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,279
When the call comes in from
Roger inviting her to lunch,
486
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,359
he was calm
and reasonable and wasn't
487
00:24:18,519 --> 00:24:19,960
yelling or complaining at her.
488
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:21,400
He just invited her.
489
00:24:21,559 --> 00:24:25,559
So his calling her was
consistent with being
490
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,039
very reasonable.
491
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:28,680
Why do
you want to have lunch?
492
00:24:31,799 --> 00:24:34,519
Because what
he says to me and
493
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,200
what he says
to other people are
494
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,359
opposite ends of the spectrum.
495
00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:42,960
Suspicious
of Emily's description
496
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,400
of Roger as a violent
sociopath, troopers
497
00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:49,400
continued to probe Emily
on their relationship.
498
00:24:49,559 --> 00:24:52,920
We were supposed
to have shared custody,
499
00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:57,079
but he refused every
opportunity, every request
500
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,759
that I had to see Charlie.
501
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,559
He refused to let me see him.
502
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,160
Roger does not want
Charlie talking to me.
503
00:25:03,319 --> 00:25:04,680
Emily is spinning
504
00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:08,759
this tale to investigators
about how awful Roger is.
505
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,640
And she's not really getting to
the point of why she's there.
506
00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:14,319
And so investigators
are just letting
507
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,319
her talk because eventually
it's going to come out.
508
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,359
When's the last time,
509
00:25:20,519 --> 00:25:24,079
before Carol's death, that you
had been intimate with Roger?
510
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,799
The last weekend in July.
511
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,720
I was so desperate for any
contact at all that I had--
512
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,680
with Charlie that if I had
to sleep with a son of a bitch,
513
00:25:34,839 --> 00:25:36,440
I'd sleep with just
so I knew what was
514
00:25:36,599 --> 00:25:38,440
going on in Charlie's life.
515
00:25:38,599 --> 00:25:40,240
Investigators understand they
516
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:41,759
have something going on here.
517
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,519
And they realize if they
let her keep talking,
518
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,880
she's going to bring them back
to the date of Carol's death.
519
00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:52,319
You talked to
Roger between the end of July.
520
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:53,759
And the day of Carol's
death, did you
521
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,240
have any contacts with him?
522
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,400
I probably talked to him,
but I didn't see him.
523
00:25:59,559 --> 00:26:03,119
He made it a point to let me
know that he was not home.
524
00:26:04,839 --> 00:26:08,079
The morning that Carol died, he
sent me a text message at 4:00
525
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:09,279
o'clock in the morning.
526
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:10,759
What
did the text say?
527
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:16,880
The text said--
528
00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:24,079
September 15 at 4:07 AM, he
sent a text message, you up?
529
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:29,799
I texted back him at 7:02
AM saying, I'm up.
530
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,839
I said, favor
to ask, can I borrow
531
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,200
the Ford and the big trailer?
532
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:34,920
I was moving out
of my apartment.
533
00:26:35,079 --> 00:26:36,480
He texted back, troubles.
534
00:26:38,079 --> 00:26:41,759
That was around 2:21
in the afternoon.
535
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,480
I said, work, question mark.
536
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,759
I said, get earlier
messages, question mark.
537
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:47,880
He said, death.
538
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,000
And I said, never good.
539
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:56,039
Then he texted back at 3:02,
at state police Towanda.
540
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,359
I said, what's up?
541
00:26:57,519 --> 00:26:59,279
And he said, troubles.
542
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,440
And then I texted
back, prayers.
543
00:27:01,599 --> 00:27:03,079
Let me
just back up a little bit.
544
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,799
When he kept saying death,
you never asked who?
545
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,079
I never asked who.
546
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:10,759
He didn't say.
547
00:27:12,079 --> 00:27:13,000
She's not asking about
548
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,880
anybody else in the house.
549
00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:17,599
So to me, that's
a giant red flag.
550
00:27:17,759 --> 00:27:20,680
You're not asking about your
son who lives in the house,
551
00:27:20,839 --> 00:27:23,559
or the woman who's taking
care of your child,
552
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,480
or any of the other people
that are in that family.
553
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,480
You're not asking
about any of them.
554
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,240
I found that to be
very unusual.
555
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,759
Pelachick knew Emily had
a motive, that she was mad
556
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,079
at Roger, that she
didn't like Roger,
557
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:37,720
and she had things to say.
558
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,440
So his curiosity
was quite up there.
559
00:27:40,599 --> 00:27:44,200
This was the time to see where
the case would take him and
560
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:45,920
keep the person talking.
561
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,920
Let her talk and ask
her questions.
562
00:27:50,079 --> 00:27:51,400
What
was the only thing
563
00:27:51,559 --> 00:27:54,000
standing in the way
between you and Charlie
564
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,160
prior to Carol's death?
565
00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:56,880
Prior to Carol's death?
566
00:27:57,039 --> 00:27:58,000
Roger.
567
00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,000
I
would say Carol.
568
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:00,000
No.
569
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,119
She took care of--
570
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:02,160
No, not between--
571
00:28:02,319 --> 00:28:03,680
OK.
572
00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:04,440
The only
thing between you and Charlie
573
00:28:04,599 --> 00:28:05,759
was Carol.
574
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,599
OK, because the minute
Carol was removed--
575
00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:10,039
I moved right in.
576
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,160
You
certainly had motive to get
577
00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:12,279
Carol out of the picture.
578
00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:15,279
In Emily's mind,
579
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,759
it's obvious at that
point that she realized
580
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,160
that she was
becoming a suspect,
581
00:28:20,319 --> 00:28:23,119
that they weren't accepting
everything she had to say.
582
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:25,559
Were
you at the house
583
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,400
on the day of Carol's death?
584
00:28:27,559 --> 00:28:28,960
Yeah-- no.
585
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:30,119
OK.
586
00:28:30,279 --> 00:28:31,240
OK.
587
00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:35,880
When Emily stammers,
and, first, she says,
588
00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:37,920
yes, then quickly
correct herself and
589
00:28:38,079 --> 00:28:40,880
says no, they
knew at that point
590
00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:43,319
that they had a bigger
case on their hands.
591
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,160
This
responding, and then
592
00:28:48,319 --> 00:28:51,599
correcting herself
shows somebody trying
593
00:28:51,759 --> 00:28:54,160
to strategically
manage the interview
594
00:28:54,319 --> 00:28:58,000
situation to give interviewers
the response she thinks
595
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,640
is most appropriate.
596
00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:03,200
And indeed, there are times
when these kind of verbal slips
597
00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:07,799
are direct indicators
of deception,
598
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,319
of what the real answer
is to the question.
599
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,200
Investigators can
use that kind of slip
600
00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:19,160
very directly and strategically
to pursue that line of inquiry.
601
00:29:19,319 --> 00:29:22,319
And they can use it just
as a broad indicator
602
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,319
of somebody who is not
telling them the whole truth.
603
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,599
Are
you a violent person?
604
00:29:27,759 --> 00:29:29,920
Because if this was not
an accidental death--
605
00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:31,440
Yeah.
606
00:29:31,599 --> 00:29:32,720
- this is
the first time this person
607
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,680
has caused harm to someone.
608
00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:36,559
Can I
tell you a little bit?
609
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,759
He came into the house
one time and he said,
610
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,880
I'm going to take
Charlie and leave.
611
00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:43,839
And I picked up the nearest
cast iron frying pan,
612
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,240
and I hit him square
in the back with it.
613
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,519
And he handed Charlie
back to me and left.
614
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,000
The fact that Emily struck
Roger with the frying pan
615
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,680
showed that she could let her
anger take her to the point
616
00:29:55,839 --> 00:29:57,440
of senseless violence.
617
00:29:57,599 --> 00:29:59,519
And real violence, too.
618
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,200
Not the slap across the face
or anything like that.
619
00:30:05,359 --> 00:30:06,960
It was at this
point that police
620
00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:10,240
decided to ask Emily
to take a lie detector test.
621
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,480
We would like you
622
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:13,920
to take a polygraph
at some point just
623
00:30:14,079 --> 00:30:15,079
to say, hey, it's not me.
624
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:16,079
I didn't do anything to it.
625
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,759
Well, I was never at the house.
626
00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:22,119
The two tubes-- one
goes in your chest,
627
00:30:22,279 --> 00:30:23,519
one goes lower--
measures your breathing.
628
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,000
Some people breathe more
through their chest.
629
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,680
Some people breathe more
through their stomach.
630
00:30:28,319 --> 00:30:30,519
The reason we measure these--
631
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,519
I've
waited for my chance
632
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,880
because I sing in the shower.
633
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,359
When
she's singing and starting
634
00:30:39,519 --> 00:30:42,440
breathing exercises, I
think she was probably
635
00:30:42,599 --> 00:30:45,000
trying to be cute
and try to endear herself
636
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:50,000
to the policemen, and make them
think that she's very relaxed
637
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,000
and confident and so forth.
638
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:54,519
It's an act.
639
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,480
Emily has gone into this
interview as a woman very
640
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,799
confident, very organized, very
used to handling authority,
641
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,440
not intimidated in any way.
642
00:31:05,599 --> 00:31:07,319
And I feel that
the singing is part
643
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,400
of this attempt to continue
to charm the officers.
644
00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:15,240
She believes she can sweet talk
her way out of the situation.
645
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,240
The test
is about to begin.
646
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:19,759
Please remain still.
647
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,480
Regarding that woman's death,
do you intend to answer
648
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,240
each question truthfully?
649
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:24,720
Yes.
650
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,640
They had been interviewing
Emily for four hours,
651
00:31:27,799 --> 00:31:31,200
yet nobody had asked
her directly if she was
652
00:31:31,359 --> 00:31:32,799
responsible for Carol's death.
653
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,559
Did you
cause that woman's death?
654
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,240
No.
655
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,000
Did you cause
that woman's death at her home?
656
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,920
No.
657
00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:42,279
The test
is about to end.
658
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:43,400
Please remain still.
659
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,240
Did I fail or did
I pass or what?
660
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:50,400
You failed.
661
00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:53,759
I failed?
662
00:31:55,279 --> 00:31:56,240
Yes.
663
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:58,400
No.
664
00:31:58,559 --> 00:31:59,880
The point at which
665
00:32:00,039 --> 00:32:01,519
the suspect is told they
failed the polygraph, that's
666
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,000
when it's raised the level.
667
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,960
It's made it
a confrontational situation.
668
00:32:07,119 --> 00:32:08,920
Were you in
that house that night with her?
669
00:32:09,079 --> 00:32:10,440
No.
Absolutely not.
670
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,000
Absolutely not.
671
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,160
If that was the truth,
672
00:32:14,319 --> 00:32:15,920
you would have
passed the polygraph.
673
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,079
Emily, what
happened that night?
674
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,400
Tell us the truth, please.
675
00:32:21,559 --> 00:32:23,359
I wasn't there.
676
00:32:23,519 --> 00:32:25,480
I wasn't there.
677
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,359
Is this the point
that you want to be truthful
678
00:32:28,519 --> 00:32:29,480
and tell us what happened?
679
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,480
After failing
a polygraph test
680
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,359
about her movements
in the hours
681
00:32:39,519 --> 00:32:42,799
before Carol Hickok was found
dead at the bottom of a flight
682
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,480
of steps at her home,
Emily Bellows-Schaffer
683
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,079
continued to deny
any responsibility
684
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:50,319
for Carol's death.
685
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,920
I don't have it
in me to hurt anybody.
686
00:32:57,079 --> 00:32:58,640
Not intentionally.
687
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:01,160
You hit Roger
in the back with a skillet.
688
00:33:04,839 --> 00:33:06,759
Listen, we know
you were there, OK?
689
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:07,759
I told you that.
690
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:08,880
Can you look at me, please?
691
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:10,880
Please?
692
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,319
We know you were there.
693
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,759
Did you go out
and kill her, or anything?
694
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,160
At that point, she
695
00:33:17,319 --> 00:33:20,079
knows they're trying
to determine what happened
696
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,519
and that she had
responsibility there.
697
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,039
Did you
intend for her to die?
698
00:33:26,079 --> 00:33:27,039
No.
699
00:33:28,839 --> 00:33:30,039
What
happened that night?
700
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,839
What was your purpose
of being there?
701
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:32,960
You can do it.
702
00:33:34,319 --> 00:33:37,000
Emily claimed
that, uninvited,
703
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,119
she had gone to the Hickok home
that morning to visit her son.
704
00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:43,720
And when she encountered
Carol, a fight between the
705
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,000
two unfolded.
706
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:56,920
What
did she do to you?
707
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,200
Can you show me?
708
00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:01,839
Was it like this?
Like, two of them together?
709
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,400
No, it was like this.
710
00:34:05,559 --> 00:34:07,160
And were
you close to her?
711
00:34:07,319 --> 00:34:12,559
I was close enough that
I pushed her backwards.
712
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:18,280
She fell backwards into the
bedroom, into the dresser.
713
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,400
We wrestled around
a little bit.
714
00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:23,599
I think we rolled
over the bed once.
715
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,679
Was she saying
anything to you during this?
716
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:29,679
Yeah.
717
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,280
My husband, my husband.
718
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,880
I'm not here to see
your damned husband.
719
00:34:36,039 --> 00:34:37,159
I'm here to see my son.
720
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,679
The last place I saw
her, she was on the floor
721
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:41,800
next to the dresser.
722
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,039
Was she conscious?
723
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:47,159
She was breathing.
724
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:48,519
OK.
725
00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:50,840
Do you know if she was
bleeding at that time?
726
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,000
Well, there was
blood on the bedspread.
727
00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:55,840
Did you do
something with the bedspread?
728
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,039
I
put the bedspread
729
00:34:57,199 --> 00:34:58,480
in the washing machine.
730
00:34:58,639 --> 00:35:00,360
But I don't know how
to run the washing machine,
731
00:35:00,519 --> 00:35:03,119
so I just left the bedspread
in the washing machine.
732
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,239
She knew that
her blood was on those sheets.
733
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,599
And she knew that her blood
might be detected sooner
734
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,119
or later on those sheets.
735
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,320
So that's why she headed
to the washing machine.
736
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,360
She had some
finger marks on her neck.
737
00:35:16,519 --> 00:35:17,559
Does that trigger anything?
738
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:20,159
Are you trying to get--
739
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:21,840
I tried
to get her off of me.
740
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,320
Did
you have blood on you?
741
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:24,360
I don't remember
742
00:35:24,519 --> 00:35:27,119
blood on my hands or my face.
743
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:28,480
I don't remember--
744
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,320
I don't remember any
blood on my clothing.
745
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,320
Asked
if she had blood on her,
746
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,800
it's as if Emily forgets
herself and goes back in time
747
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,199
and she's there
at the moment of the murder.
748
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,760
And she holds up her hands,
and it's as if- she's--
749
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,400
she's looking
at the murder weapons.
750
00:35:50,559 --> 00:35:54,079
For a moment, we get
this curious indication
751
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:55,760
of absolute guilt.
752
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,599
Did you ever
tell Roger what happened?
753
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:58,760
No.
754
00:35:58,920 --> 00:35:59,760
Did
he ever ask you?
755
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:01,079
No.
756
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:02,719
Emily had
the opportunity here
757
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,840
to implicate Roger, that he
had somehow enabled or assisted
758
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,440
her in murdering Carol.
759
00:36:08,599 --> 00:36:10,400
But she didn't take
that opportunity,
760
00:36:10,559 --> 00:36:12,039
and so he was cleared.
761
00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:13,719
How did she get
to the bottom of the stairs?
762
00:36:15,039 --> 00:36:15,920
I
don't know how she got
763
00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:17,880
to the bottom of the stairs.
764
00:36:18,039 --> 00:36:23,280
She was quite alive
the last time I saw her.
765
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,639
After talking
to Emily for eight hours,
766
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,440
the troopers decided to end
the interview for the day.
767
00:36:30,599 --> 00:36:32,880
Are you going to arrest
me and fingerprint
768
00:36:33,039 --> 00:36:34,280
me and send me to jail?
769
00:36:35,559 --> 00:36:36,320
You
are going to have
770
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:37,400
to face the music to this.
771
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,039
At this point, they
read Emily her rights.
772
00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:44,199
They let her know
she is under arrest,
773
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,960
and they take her
to the county jail.
774
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,880
The following
day, investigators
775
00:36:50,039 --> 00:36:53,400
visited Emily to confirm
her videotaped confession
776
00:36:53,559 --> 00:36:54,920
in writing.
777
00:36:55,079 --> 00:36:56,840
During
the videotaped interview,
778
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:58,880
Emily tried to claim
that Carol had
779
00:36:59,039 --> 00:37:01,239
confronted her
in the hallway, and
780
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,320
it wound up that Carol died.
781
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,079
The next day, she did
not change that version.
782
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:08,880
The only part she
changed was instead
783
00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:12,400
of saying Carol was alive
when she left the house, she
784
00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:14,199
admitted that Carol
was dead, that she had
785
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:15,639
taken Carol out of the house.
786
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,079
And she acknowledged
at that point
787
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,800
that she had moved Carol's body
down to the foot of the stairs.
788
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,480
All police
needed now was
789
00:37:25,639 --> 00:37:29,840
DNA evidence proving that Emily
was at the scene of the crime.
790
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,119
The sheets and
bedding and blood on the scene
791
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,840
was analyzed by the state
police laboratory.
792
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,639
And it was determined
that some of the blood
793
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,280
there was Emily's
blood, which, of course,
794
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:42,719
placed Emily at the scene.
795
00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:47,719
Emily's
confession and DNA evidence
796
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:49,719
meant that she faced
a lengthy prison
797
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:54,360
sentence for Carol's death,
if found guilty of homicide.
798
00:37:54,519 --> 00:37:57,679
But because Emily denied
the charge of murder,
799
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:58,880
the case went to court.
800
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,239
In August 2012,
nearly two years
801
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,800
after Carol Hickok's
death, Emily
802
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,960
stood trial for the murder
of her son's stepmom.
803
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,280
I'm tapped to be
there every day.
804
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,880
I show up at the courthouse
at least a half-hour
805
00:38:16,039 --> 00:38:18,679
beforehand every day,
because it was more than just
806
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,280
a story at that point.
807
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,000
I had to let the community
know what was going on.
808
00:38:23,159 --> 00:38:24,199
It
was very important
809
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:25,800
for me to be at this trial.
810
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,119
I felt that I needed to be
there for justice for Carol.
811
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:34,559
She was an innocent victim
that should be alive today.
812
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,559
I wanted to know
the truth because there
813
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,960
had been so many
stories going around,
814
00:38:39,119 --> 00:38:41,360
this and that, and the other
thing that I know the truth
815
00:38:41,519 --> 00:38:42,679
should come out in the trial.
816
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,800
And I needed to be
there for those reasons.
817
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,039
Something
I found incredibly remarkable
818
00:38:49,199 --> 00:38:51,840
was that there was
no one for Emily.
819
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,760
She has no support in that
courtroom, whatsoever.
820
00:38:56,119 --> 00:38:59,239
Emily was incredibly
stoic during the trial.
821
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,159
She showed very little emotion.
822
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,280
Any emotion she showed,
she would tip her head down
823
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:05,880
and she would talk
to her attorney.
824
00:39:06,039 --> 00:39:07,360
And that was about it.
825
00:39:07,519 --> 00:39:10,239
She was very silent
through that trial.
826
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,039
Well, the one thing I
remember clearly about Emily,
827
00:39:13,199 --> 00:39:14,280
I did not see remorse.
828
00:39:15,519 --> 00:39:17,840
I never saw a bit of remorse.
829
00:39:20,559 --> 00:39:25,679
That, I could not fathom
and I could not get past.
830
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,920
During
the trial, the prosecution
831
00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:31,199
played Emily's videotape
confession to the jury
832
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,360
before unveiling another
key piece of evidence.
833
00:39:35,519 --> 00:39:37,559
The most interesting
part of that trial
834
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,239
was the introduction
of Emily's diary,
835
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,199
because you could really see
where she began to unravel.
836
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,880
One excerpt read, she's
referring to Roger here,
837
00:39:48,039 --> 00:39:51,880
and you can get a sense of how
angry she is toward Roger.
838
00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:55,280
"I wish I had a 2" by 4", I'd
hit you upside your head and
839
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,199
scream at your lifeless body.
840
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:58,199
Now, we're even.
841
00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:59,519
Because I died a little.
842
00:39:59,679 --> 00:40:01,480
Every single day you
have kept us apart."
843
00:40:03,159 --> 00:40:05,159
And then she goes
on to say, "There
844
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,320
will be no I love yous until
this situation is resolved.
845
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,519
How/why on earth would/could
I love anyone who could
846
00:40:12,679 --> 00:40:15,760
so carelessly, heartlessly
do this to me, who would
847
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,400
be so blind and selfish."
848
00:40:20,519 --> 00:40:22,719
The things
that Emily put in her diary
849
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,639
showed that she
very much resented
850
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,039
that she didn't have much.
851
00:40:28,199 --> 00:40:30,239
Carol was the reason
that Roger didn't need
852
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:31,760
her to help raise the boy.
853
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,519
Carol was the reason that
Roger didn't want to live
854
00:40:34,679 --> 00:40:36,360
with her, and so forth.
855
00:40:36,519 --> 00:40:38,840
So she wanted
to get rid of Carol.
856
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,400
Six days before
the murder, Emily wrote,
857
00:40:41,559 --> 00:40:44,000
"I must do what I must do."
858
00:40:44,159 --> 00:40:45,599
The information in the diaries
859
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,119
pulled everything together
and brought real context
860
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,280
to what it was
Emily was doing when
861
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,679
she went to the home of Roger
Hickok and Carol Hickok.
862
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,880
The prosecution
also highlighted
863
00:40:59,039 --> 00:41:01,119
the evidence found
by the coroner
864
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,800
when he revisited
the autopsy photographs.
865
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,360
A very small,
but very significant
866
00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:13,440
part of the evidence was little
marks, cuts on Carol's neck,
867
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:15,960
where she was
trying to pry away
868
00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:19,360
Emily's fingers, trying to get
those fingers off her neck.
869
00:41:19,519 --> 00:41:21,800
And it actually cut
into her own skin.
870
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,679
It showed, among other
things, that strangulation
871
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,079
was the cause of death.
872
00:41:28,599 --> 00:41:30,000
The prosecution argued
873
00:41:30,159 --> 00:41:33,000
that the only reason Emily
went to Carol's house
874
00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:36,000
on the day of her death
was to commit murder.
875
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:38,760
The evidence was clear.
876
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,960
She had no need to go
to the house to see Charlie.
877
00:41:41,119 --> 00:41:42,880
She could have
done that at lunch.
878
00:41:43,039 --> 00:41:45,159
She had no reason to go
there to see Carol,
879
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,239
because Carol wouldn't
have wanted to talk to her.
880
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,880
That she went to the house,
went into the house
881
00:41:50,039 --> 00:41:53,239
and killed Carol,
shows that that was
882
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:54,639
her objective from the start.
883
00:41:56,199 --> 00:41:58,519
Emily's confession
took herself as far
884
00:41:58,679 --> 00:42:02,719
as the offense of voluntary
manslaughter, that is causing
885
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,320
a death during a fight.
886
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,880
The overall
circumstances of the case
887
00:42:08,039 --> 00:42:10,119
were such that
it was undeniable
888
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,000
that this was murder.
889
00:42:13,159 --> 00:42:16,519
This wasn't-- this wasn't
a fight that went bad.
890
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:24,239
On August 10, 2012,
the jury retired to deliberate.
891
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,480
And at 4:00 PM, they
returned with their verdict.
892
00:42:29,159 --> 00:42:31,519
The jury
found Emily guilty
893
00:42:31,679 --> 00:42:35,480
of second degree murder,
the felony offense of burglary,
894
00:42:35,639 --> 00:42:36,639
and other charges.
895
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,039
On September 27, 2012,
Emily Bellows-Schaffer
896
00:42:42,199 --> 00:42:44,880
was sentenced to life in prison
without the possibility
897
00:42:45,039 --> 00:42:46,280
of parole.
898
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,480
And she remains incarcerated.
899
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,639
This tragedy began when
Roger began a dalliance
900
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,800
with Emily Bellows-Schaffer
that wound up with Emily
901
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:03,880
involved in their lives.
902
00:43:04,039 --> 00:43:09,599
But the murder itself is
all the fault and crime
903
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,440
of Emily Bellows-Schaffer.
904
00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:14,239
And that's where
guilt was found.
905
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,000
And that's where the true
and complete blame lies.
906
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,000
Carol's death was truly tragic.
907
00:43:22,159 --> 00:43:25,320
A horrible thing happened
to a very good person
908
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,800
because of someone
else's anger,
909
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:32,639
greed, selfish intentions.
910
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,280
Carol will always
be remembered
911
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,400
as a pillar in this community.
912
00:43:36,559 --> 00:43:40,760
I never met Carol
Hickok, but I regard
913
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:43,159
her as a wonderful woman.
914
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,079
And almost a saint, because I
don't know how many women could
915
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,440
take in the child
of their husband's mistress
916
00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:53,599
and carry on and love
that child as if the child
917
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:54,760
were her own.
918
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,559
I give her a lot
of respect for that.
919
00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:02,159
Carol was strong.
920
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,639
What she did, she did 100%--
921
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:09,480
her business, her hunting,
her mothering, her cooking,
922
00:44:09,639 --> 00:44:11,320
her marriage vows.
923
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:16,719
And the way she loved
Charlie spoke volumes--
924
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,639
Just spoke volumes.
925
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,039
She was faithful
in friendships.
926
00:44:21,199 --> 00:44:22,159
She was kind.
927
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:25,119
Just 100% her girl.
928
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:26,199
That's all I can tell you.
929
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:27,800
She just was great.
71107
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