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NARRATOR: This program is
about unsolved mysteries.
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Whenever possible, the
actual family members
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and police officials
have participated
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in recreating the events.
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What you are about to see
is not a news broadcast.
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[theme music]
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ROBERT STACK: In 1986, a bank
vault in Hollywood, California
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was emptied by a cunning
group of burglars.
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The bandits tunnelled
hundreds of feet underground
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and escaped with $2 million.
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The police call it, the
crime of the century.
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In 1982, a 46-year-old
appliance repair man
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was brutally murdered.
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Three theories have surfaced.
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Was this seemingly
ordinary father of four
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killed by angry drug runners?
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Or by vengeful crime bosses
against whom his brother
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was called to testify?
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Or was it a crime of passion,
committed by a jealous husband?
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In 1982, seven-year-old
Kristle Merzlock drowned
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in a swimming pool accident.
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Crystal was clinically dead.
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But after 15 minutes, doctors
brought her back to life.
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Crystal is one
millions of Americans
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who's undergone
what psychologists
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call a near-death experience.
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An intriguing,
mystifying phenomenon
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in which they describe
a peaceful journey
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after death, which
old friends lead
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them towards a white light.
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Proof of life after life or
simply a mass hallucination?
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ROBERT STACK: 8:00 P.m.
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Friday, June 6th, 1986.
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An alarm sounded at the
First Interstate Bank
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in Hollywood, California.
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A police patrol was
dispatched to investigate.
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When they arrived, they found
no evidence of a break in.
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Good morning.
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Hi, Gerald.
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ROBERT STACK: On Monday
morning, bank employees
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arrived for work.
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It was business as usual.
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A few minutes later, when a bank
officer opened up the vault,
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she made a shocking discovery.
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Incredibly, someone
had tunneled 30 yards
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from under a nearby
street, ending up precisely
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underneath the vault.
Using hand tools,
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they patiently sliced through
the 18- inch thick, steel,
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reinforced concrete floor.
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Once inside, they made
off with over $2 million
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in cash, jewelry and rare coins
Detective Dennis Pegankopp
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was assigned to the case.
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DENNIS PEGANKOPP:
My initial feelings
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that morning, when we
first arrived at the scene,
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was one of awe.
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I realized the fact
that these suspects
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were excellent burglars.
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They would be extremely
difficult to catch.
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They'd gone to a lot of work.
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And it was awesome.
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And you want to get
this one out of here too--
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DENNIS PEGANKOPP: We view
this burglary, in the city,
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as the crime of the century
as far as burglaries go.
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The method of attack and
the fact they got $2 million
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plus-- their ingenuity.
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I had never seen a burglary
like this in 27 years.
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Let's work this one
about 100 yards up.
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ROBERT STACK:
Underneath the streets
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of Los Angeles, a subterranean
highway of storm drains exists.
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Detective Pegankopp
discovered that the burglars
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had used these drains to
secretly travel to the bank.
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Where they, then, could tunnel
undetected to the vaults.
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I don't see any dirt yet.
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ROBERT STACK: They dug 95
feet from a drain to the bank.
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The extraordinary tunnels were
approximately 3 and 1/2 feet
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wide by 4 and 1/2 feet high.
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All dug by hand but finished
with electric tools.
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A remarkable feat of
precision engineering.
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DENNIS PEGANKOPP:
The experts tell
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us that the type of tunnels
they dug were very safe runnels.
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The size of the tunnels,
the shapes of tunnels,
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were extremely expertly done.
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And the contour of
the tunnels were
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done as such to add extra
strength and protection
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to those digging.
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ROBERT STACK: Police
searched underground
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in a three mile
radius of the bank,
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looking for signs
of the robbers.
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DENNIS PEGANKOPP: When we
concluded our investigation
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at First Interstate
Bank, basically we
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were left with no clues at all.
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There was no physical
evidence left.
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The suspect's left us
nothing to work with.
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And we were
basically handcuffed.
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Police had run out of clues.
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It seemed as if the perfect
crime had been committed.
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14 months later, the
daring bandit struck again.
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They must have known that
their extraordinary tactics
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were known to the authorities,
but that didn't deter them.
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What is more surprising,
tunneling burglars came
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within minutes of succeeding.
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ROBERT STACK: On Saturday
morning, August 22 1987
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the alarm system went
off at a Bank of America
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in West Los Angeles.
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Police were called
in to investigate.
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The assistant bank
manager opened the vault.
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They discover the vault
had been broken into.
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Apparently the burglars
had fled while a robbery
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was in progress.
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On the floor, an 18 inch hole
was cut through the concrete.
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When I got a phone call
from the officer at the bank
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and he explained to me
a hole in the floor.
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All I could think of
was, they're back.
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They've done it again.
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And how much money did
they get this time.
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ROBERT STACK: Because
they were interrupted,
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the thieves are only
able to steal $90,000.
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They left behind their
tools and some work clothes.
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Chisel.
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This is the
diamond-tipped drill.
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ROBERT STACK: The robbers
also left an 18 inch core bit,
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a cutting tool used in
construction to bore
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large holes through cement.
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Lay it down and we'll roll it.
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DENNIS PEGANKOPP: This was
purchased in the San Francisco
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Bay Area, by a construction
company using a fictitious name
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and address in San Diego
and they paid cash.
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So basically we knew
that it was probably
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a white male that purchased
it, but no other information.
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There's a buildup
of dirt on this side.
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That's it?
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ROBERT STACK: Again detectives
searched miles of storm
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drains for some clue as to
the identity of the bandits.
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Approximately three
miles from the bike,
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they found a four wheel vehicle
called a quad runner, just
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inside a storm drain entrance.
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Detective Pegankopp
believes the tunnels
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were dug by just two men.
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Apparently they
used their vehicles
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to carry their heavy
equipment underground.
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Their core bit and
drill alone required
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a drill press that weighed
an excess of 100 pounds.
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DENNIS PEGANKOPP: We
came to the conclusion
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that the suspects were very
close friends, possibly army
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buddies, able to work
together for long periods
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of time in very confined areas.
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Taking up three to
six weeks, probably,
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to dig that one tunnel.
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ROBERT STACK: Detective
Pegankopp also
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believes a third
man was involved,
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since clearly the burglars
must have been warned
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by someone outside the bank.
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MAN: (ON PHONE)
It's time to move.
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ROBBER 1: Cops?
- I don't know.
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I gotta go. .
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ROBERT STACK: In their
escape, footprints
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indicated that the burglars
ran through the tunnel, one
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barefoot, one in stocking feet.
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They abandoned one
of their vehicles
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and apparently escaped on foot.
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For all of their labors,
$90,000 must have
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been a disappointing reward.
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DENNIS PEGANKOPP: Of all
the evidence we recovered.
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The tools, ladders,
clothing, we had developed
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no fingerprints whatsoever.
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The only fingerprint
we developed
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was on the quad runner itself.
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We got one latent print
from that vehicle.
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That print has been run through
and compared with all arrestees
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and it's our opinion
that this individual
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has never been arrested.
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ROBERT STACK: Police
again went underground,
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looking for more evidence.
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I don't know what that is.
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POLICE OFFICER 1:
That's hollow, isn't it?
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POLICE OFFICER 2: That's hollow.
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ROBERT STACK: About a mile and
a half from the Bank of America,
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they found another tunnel,
completely finished.
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This 102 foot tunnel ended
beneath a Beverly Hills bank
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and the mounding
bolts for the drill
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were already in place
under the vault.
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DENNIS PEGANKOPP: If they'd
have been able to accomplish
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both burglaries that
week, it's told to me,
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by the people in the
banking industry,
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that they probably would have
gotten away with between $10
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and $20 million.
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ROBERT STACK: Police learned
that the quad runner was
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purchased by a man
using the name David
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Spaulding, his
only known address
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a post office box in Hollywood.
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One or two people
using this name,
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apparently purchased five of
these distinctive vehicles.
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Salespeople created two
composites of the same man.
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He is a male Caucasian
around 35 years of age.
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He's about six feet
in height and rugged
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looking, as if used
to outdoor labor.
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Next, the story
of two people who
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have been pronounced clinically
dead and brought back to life.
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The experience has profoundly
changed their lives.
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The stories they
tell may suggest
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what lies ahead after death.
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[theme music]
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ROBERT STACK: Seven years
ago on March 13th, 1982,
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a just girl named
Kristle Merzlock was
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attending a children's
birthday party
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held at a local swimming pool.
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Though she had just
recently learned to swim,
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Kristle felt comfortable
in the water.
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00:11:06,867 --> 00:11:08,335
KRISTLE MERZLOCK: We
went into the pool
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and we were just playing down
at the shallow end for a while.
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And then, I don't know
why, but for some reason
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I went out to the deep end where
a group of boys pushed me in.
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But they didn't know it.
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And I just started swallowing
water, gasping for air,
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trying to grab on to
the top of the water.
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I couldn't get any air.
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00:11:33,526 --> 00:11:36,764
And so I just fell unconscious.
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And then I was just in darkness.
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DOCTOR: Can we get some
breath sounds here, please?
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[interposing voices]
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DOCTOR: How are
the breath sounds?
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00:11:53,646 --> 00:11:55,182
MAN: OK, she has breath
sounds on the right side.
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ROBERT STACK: Paramedics rushed
Kristle to a local hospital,
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00:11:57,450 --> 00:12:00,020
where a team led by Dr.
Melvin Morse feverishly
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worked to save her life.
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DOCTOR: Go ahead
and draw up again.
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MELVIN MORSE: When she
came in, her pupils
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were fixed and dilated.
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I mean, she probably
had no brain activity.
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She had none of
the normal reflexes
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that we associate
with surviving.
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00:12:16,669 --> 00:12:21,741
She had what's called a
Glasgow Coma Score of three,
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which very few people survive if
they have such a profound coma.
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She's not coming around.
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She's not coming around.
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MELVIN MORSE: I did not
think that she would survive.
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00:12:31,919 --> 00:12:33,453
MICHAEL MERZLOCK: Dr.
Morse said that she
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00:12:33,553 --> 00:12:36,356
was so close to death
that-- to prepare
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00:12:36,456 --> 00:12:38,992
yourself for her demise.
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That she could
expire at any time.
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There wasn't much chance
given to her for prolonged
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life after that event.
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DOCTOR: OK, did you
check her blood pressure?
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00:12:55,275 --> 00:12:56,476
ROBERT STACK: At 3:30 p.m.
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00:12:56,576 --> 00:12:58,812
Kristle Merzlock
was clinically dead.
246
00:12:58,912 --> 00:13:02,315
20 minutes later, she
was brought back to life.
247
00:13:02,415 --> 00:13:04,351
During the period of time
she was being revived,
248
00:13:04,451 --> 00:13:06,519
Kristle shared a common
experience with thousands
249
00:13:06,619 --> 00:13:08,255
of other Americans.
250
00:13:08,355 --> 00:13:11,158
A near-death experience or NDE.
251
00:13:11,258 --> 00:13:13,827
Almost, without exception,
these people describe a journey
252
00:13:13,927 --> 00:13:15,728
to a land with beautiful light.
253
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:17,664
A trip accompanied by
an overwhelming sense
254
00:13:17,764 --> 00:13:19,266
of well-being.
255
00:13:19,366 --> 00:13:22,535
Is this experience an
hallucination or evidence
256
00:13:22,635 --> 00:13:23,703
of a life after death.
257
00:13:27,407 --> 00:13:29,109
ROBERT STACK: As
Kristle lay near death,
258
00:13:29,209 --> 00:13:30,944
she found herself
moving into darkness.
259
00:13:34,381 --> 00:13:35,782
Then her eyes opened.
260
00:13:35,883 --> 00:13:37,317
And she beheld a wondrous sight.
261
00:13:40,353 --> 00:13:43,957
KRISTLE MERZLOCK: I didn't
really know where I was.
262
00:13:44,057 --> 00:13:47,294
It's just, I looked up and
I saw this bright light
263
00:13:47,394 --> 00:13:50,263
at the end of the tunnel.
264
00:13:50,363 --> 00:13:53,300
And there were colored bricks
on the walls of the tunnel.
265
00:13:56,603 --> 00:13:59,806
The light, kind of,
pulled me toward it.
266
00:13:59,907 --> 00:14:02,642
It was just the most loving
light I've ever seen.
267
00:14:07,014 --> 00:14:09,749
And then I saw this lady.
268
00:14:09,849 --> 00:14:12,752
She came toward me really
soft and really slow
269
00:14:12,852 --> 00:14:15,855
and she took my hand and
she said, "I'm Elizabeth
270
00:14:15,956 --> 00:14:18,825
and I will help you."
271
00:14:18,926 --> 00:14:21,628
She just led me into the
light and through the light.
272
00:14:21,728 --> 00:14:22,595
And into heaven.
273
00:14:26,533 --> 00:14:30,103
I just felt that this was
the place I wanted to be.
274
00:14:36,709 --> 00:14:39,646
ROBERT STACK: Kristle senses
she was floating over her body,
275
00:14:39,746 --> 00:14:41,248
observing the
medical team as they
276
00:14:41,348 --> 00:14:44,384
attempted to save her life.
277
00:14:44,484 --> 00:14:47,220
KRISTLE MERZLOCK: When I was
up there, I saw the doctors.
278
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,990
They were working on me.
279
00:14:50,090 --> 00:14:51,624
They were sticking
things on my arm
280
00:14:51,724 --> 00:14:53,593
and up my nose to
help me breathe.
281
00:14:53,693 --> 00:14:56,129
And I didn't like it.
282
00:14:56,229 --> 00:14:58,932
That was one of the reasons
I wanted to stay up there.
283
00:14:59,032 --> 00:15:00,200
[beeping]
284
00:15:03,570 --> 00:15:04,437
KRISTLE MERZLOCK: But--
285
00:15:04,537 --> 00:15:05,472
[flat line]
286
00:15:05,572 --> 00:15:06,806
KRISTLE MERZLOCK:
When I got thinking
287
00:15:06,906 --> 00:15:10,677
about how I wouldn't be able
to really hug my mom again.
288
00:15:10,777 --> 00:15:18,885
Or anybody I really loved and I
said, "No, I want to go back. "
289
00:15:18,986 --> 00:15:21,388
And then I was back in my body.
290
00:15:26,226 --> 00:15:27,894
I wasn't dead.
291
00:15:27,995 --> 00:15:28,962
I was still alive.
292
00:15:29,062 --> 00:15:31,965
There was still a part
of me, like my soul
293
00:15:32,065 --> 00:15:34,634
my spirit, was still alive.
294
00:15:34,734 --> 00:15:38,005
I wasn't dead at all.
295
00:15:38,105 --> 00:15:39,506
ROBERT STACK: For
at least 20 minutes,
296
00:15:39,606 --> 00:15:43,076
Kristle was, for all
intents and purposes, dead.
297
00:15:43,176 --> 00:15:45,178
Even after she was
revived, the child
298
00:15:45,278 --> 00:15:47,914
was in a coma for three days.
299
00:15:48,015 --> 00:15:50,150
Fortunately, once
she returned home,
300
00:15:50,250 --> 00:15:52,052
Kristle completely
regained her health.
301
00:15:54,754 --> 00:15:58,058
Kristle had never met Dr. Morse,
the man who saved her life,
302
00:15:58,158 --> 00:16:02,295
but when they were introduced
he seemed familiar.
303
00:16:02,395 --> 00:16:04,231
MELVIN MORSE: The last
time I had seen her,
304
00:16:04,331 --> 00:16:05,999
she was profoundly comatose.
305
00:16:06,099 --> 00:16:10,670
She could not have been in a
deeper coma and still be alive.
306
00:16:10,770 --> 00:16:14,007
And then I saw her at
follow up two weeks later.
307
00:16:14,107 --> 00:16:16,409
I said, you know,
Hi I'm Dr. Morse.
308
00:16:16,509 --> 00:16:19,946
You probably don't remember me,
but I sure know you, Kristle.
309
00:16:20,047 --> 00:16:23,516
Because I spent a grueling
four hours trying to bring
310
00:16:23,616 --> 00:16:25,618
you back to life.
311
00:16:25,718 --> 00:16:27,287
And then she turned to
her mother and said,
312
00:16:27,387 --> 00:16:28,955
well, no I have seen him before.
313
00:16:31,558 --> 00:16:33,360
She stated that she
remembered seeing
314
00:16:33,460 --> 00:16:37,030
me from the emergency room.
315
00:16:37,130 --> 00:16:39,499
KATHY MERZLOCK: She said,
oh yes I've met you.
316
00:16:39,599 --> 00:16:41,268
I saw you.
317
00:16:41,368 --> 00:16:43,570
You were putting
something in my throat,
318
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:44,937
you were working with my neck.
319
00:16:45,038 --> 00:16:46,139
And she scowled at him.
320
00:16:47,140 --> 00:16:49,976
I saw his face and I knew him.
321
00:16:50,077 --> 00:16:53,313
It was just, like, I'd
never seen him before.
322
00:16:53,413 --> 00:16:55,215
And I knew him.
323
00:16:55,315 --> 00:16:58,351
She also described other
elements of her resuscitation.
324
00:16:58,451 --> 00:17:01,721
She described us
pushing on her chest
325
00:17:01,821 --> 00:17:04,091
and putting various
lines in her.
326
00:17:04,191 --> 00:17:07,260
She described
that-- she told me,
327
00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:11,531
first you worked on me
in the emergency room.
328
00:17:11,631 --> 00:17:14,101
And then you took
me to another room.
329
00:17:14,201 --> 00:17:17,104
You know, which
was, in fact, true.
330
00:17:17,204 --> 00:17:20,039
And when you see a
seven-year-old talk like that
331
00:17:20,140 --> 00:17:22,275
and say things like
that, there is no reason
332
00:17:22,375 --> 00:17:23,643
for you not to believe it.
333
00:17:23,743 --> 00:17:27,180
You know, it comes
straight from the heart.
334
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:28,415
ROBERT STACK: Dr.
Gabbard has studied
335
00:17:28,515 --> 00:17:30,283
these near-death
experiences and believes
336
00:17:30,383 --> 00:17:35,188
they may be physical, not
metaphysical, phenomena.
337
00:17:35,288 --> 00:17:36,856
GLEN O. GABBARD: The
near-death experience
338
00:17:36,956 --> 00:17:39,592
can be understood
as deriving from
339
00:17:39,692 --> 00:17:41,828
a fundamental,
psychological need
340
00:17:41,928 --> 00:17:45,232
to deny the reality of death.
341
00:17:45,332 --> 00:17:47,967
Because it's too horrible
to face the prospect
342
00:17:48,067 --> 00:17:51,171
that, when the
body goes, that it.
343
00:17:51,271 --> 00:17:53,606
It's very tempting,
of course, to suppose
344
00:17:53,706 --> 00:17:57,009
that these experiences are
explainable by some sort
345
00:17:57,110 --> 00:18:00,147
of physiological events or
biochemical events going on
346
00:18:00,247 --> 00:18:01,914
in the brain at
the point of death.
347
00:18:02,014 --> 00:18:05,185
Or perhaps, by psychological
principles, that this is just
348
00:18:05,285 --> 00:18:06,319
wish fulfillment.
349
00:18:06,419 --> 00:18:09,456
That the mind is unable
to accept final death so
350
00:18:09,556 --> 00:18:11,758
makes up this beautiful fantasy.
351
00:18:11,858 --> 00:18:14,661
But, in fact, when you look
carefully look at the reports,
352
00:18:14,761 --> 00:18:17,597
I think we've all concluded
that something very different
353
00:18:17,697 --> 00:18:18,965
is going on.
354
00:18:19,065 --> 00:18:21,834
One reason for this is that the
patients are able to tell us
355
00:18:21,934 --> 00:18:24,171
things about the
resuscitation attempt
356
00:18:24,271 --> 00:18:27,207
that they wouldn't have
any way of knowing.
357
00:18:27,307 --> 00:18:30,109
My own subjective
feeling, after 23 years
358
00:18:30,210 --> 00:18:31,844
of working with
these patients, is
359
00:18:31,944 --> 00:18:34,113
that, I have no
doubt whatsoever,
360
00:18:34,214 --> 00:18:37,784
that they had a glimpse
of the life hereafter.
361
00:18:37,884 --> 00:18:38,685
[music playing]
362
00:18:41,454 --> 00:18:42,722
ROBERT STACK: Kristle
has been to a place
363
00:18:42,822 --> 00:18:45,258
where her friends and
family have never gone.
364
00:18:45,358 --> 00:18:47,727
She is certain that this
experience will stay
365
00:18:47,827 --> 00:18:51,231
with her the rest of her life.
366
00:18:51,331 --> 00:18:52,399
KRISTLE MERZLOCK:
I have remembered
367
00:18:52,499 --> 00:18:55,368
this for seven years.
368
00:18:55,468 --> 00:18:56,836
I cannot forget it.
369
00:18:56,936 --> 00:18:58,371
It's always there.
370
00:18:58,471 --> 00:19:00,707
It's always been
very real to me.
371
00:19:00,807 --> 00:19:04,076
And it's always
very clear to me.
372
00:19:08,481 --> 00:19:11,017
When we return, the
story of a man who may
373
00:19:11,117 --> 00:19:13,486
have passed through
death to the other side.
374
00:19:13,586 --> 00:19:15,288
Today his life has
been transformed.
375
00:19:15,388 --> 00:19:17,156
He believes that
life after death
376
00:19:17,257 --> 00:19:20,427
is a very real possibility.
377
00:19:20,527 --> 00:19:22,329
[theme muisic]
378
00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:25,365
Many thousands
of people have died
379
00:19:25,465 --> 00:19:27,434
and lived to tell the tale.
380
00:19:27,534 --> 00:19:30,337
An overwhelming number
describe the same phenomena,
381
00:19:30,437 --> 00:19:34,040
a tunnel of light and a sense
of floating over their body.
382
00:19:34,140 --> 00:19:35,508
One of the strangest
stories connected
383
00:19:35,608 --> 00:19:37,410
with a near-death
experience was told by a New
384
00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:39,512
York man named Thomas Sawyer.
385
00:19:39,612 --> 00:19:42,148
10 years ago, his life was
transformed by an accident
386
00:19:42,249 --> 00:19:44,217
that occurred in his garage.
387
00:19:44,317 --> 00:19:48,455
Today, Tom Sawyer is,
literally, a new man.
388
00:19:48,555 --> 00:19:49,956
[music playing]
389
00:19:54,494 --> 00:19:56,162
ROBERT STACK: Tom Sawyer
lives in upstate New York
390
00:19:56,263 --> 00:19:58,398
and works as a
snowplow operator.
391
00:19:58,498 --> 00:20:01,668
For 33 years he lived a
normal, uneventful life.
392
00:20:04,404 --> 00:20:06,273
THOMAS SAWYER: I'd have to
describe myself as, pretty
393
00:20:06,373 --> 00:20:07,574
much, an All-American boy.
394
00:20:07,674 --> 00:20:09,609
You know, with a
name like Tom Sawyer
395
00:20:09,709 --> 00:20:10,910
you have one of two choices.
396
00:20:11,010 --> 00:20:14,614
You can become a
comedian and outgoing
397
00:20:14,714 --> 00:20:17,183
or end up being an introvert.
398
00:20:17,284 --> 00:20:19,151
ROBERT STACK: Tom turned to
athletics during high school
399
00:20:19,252 --> 00:20:21,053
and that propelled
him to popularity.
400
00:20:21,153 --> 00:20:24,357
However his academic record
was lackluster for good reason.
401
00:20:25,392 --> 00:20:26,359
THOMAS SAWYER:
From seventh grade
402
00:20:26,459 --> 00:20:28,761
in grammar school,
right through age 33,
403
00:20:28,861 --> 00:20:31,130
I never read a book
cover to cover.
404
00:20:31,230 --> 00:20:35,635
I just dislike reading
immensely and I read nothing.
405
00:20:35,735 --> 00:20:38,070
ROBERT STACK: In his late
teens, Tom raced bicycles.
406
00:20:38,170 --> 00:20:41,741
And, in 1968, qualified
for the Olympic team.
407
00:20:41,841 --> 00:20:44,210
In 1967, he married
Elaine and they
408
00:20:44,311 --> 00:20:47,414
had two sons, Tim and Todd.
409
00:20:47,514 --> 00:20:49,048
Tom was a family man.
410
00:20:49,148 --> 00:20:52,285
A blue collar worker who prided
himself on his practicality.
411
00:20:53,753 --> 00:20:56,456
Prior to this experience, I
had thought about such things
412
00:20:56,556 --> 00:20:58,658
as religion and so on
and I thought that it was
413
00:20:58,758 --> 00:21:01,127
just a bunch of foolishness.
414
00:21:01,227 --> 00:21:04,163
I would describe
myself as an agnostic.
415
00:21:04,263 --> 00:21:07,166
What I had figured out was
that when you die, you die.
416
00:21:07,266 --> 00:21:08,134
The show was over.
417
00:21:08,234 --> 00:21:10,403
Everything goes
black and that's it.
418
00:21:10,503 --> 00:21:12,339
Just bring the whole box and
sort some of the tools out.
419
00:21:12,439 --> 00:21:13,606
Hand me the needle nose pliers.
420
00:21:13,706 --> 00:21:14,707
Hold on.
421
00:21:14,807 --> 00:21:15,908
THOMAS SAWYER: When I
had this experience,
422
00:21:16,008 --> 00:21:17,544
I was repairing my pickup truck.
423
00:21:17,644 --> 00:21:21,047
I had the front wheels off
it and was lying on my back.
424
00:21:21,147 --> 00:21:23,850
And the truck suddenly
started to move.
425
00:21:23,950 --> 00:21:24,751
Oh my God!
426
00:21:24,851 --> 00:21:25,652
Dad!
427
00:21:32,325 --> 00:21:34,761
THOMAS SAWYER: When Todd ran
in and made the phone call,
428
00:21:34,861 --> 00:21:36,729
I heard it very
clearly and vividly.
429
00:21:36,829 --> 00:21:38,197
Hello.
430
00:21:38,297 --> 00:21:39,298
My name is Todd Sawyer--
431
00:21:39,399 --> 00:21:40,533
THOMAS SAWYER: There
are other things
432
00:21:40,633 --> 00:21:43,403
that I was able to hear
that were impossible for me
433
00:21:43,503 --> 00:21:46,238
to hear with my ears and
others with my normal hearing.
434
00:21:46,339 --> 00:21:49,275
Such as, the conversation
of the paramedics
435
00:21:49,376 --> 00:21:51,844
getting into the ambulance
3 and 1/2 miles away.
436
00:21:55,214 --> 00:21:57,083
ROBERT STACK: His wife's
screams brought the neighbors
437
00:21:57,183 --> 00:22:00,587
and they worked
desperately to free him.
438
00:22:00,687 --> 00:22:01,521
Lift, lift.
439
00:22:01,621 --> 00:22:04,957
One, two, three!
440
00:22:05,057 --> 00:22:06,926
THOMAS SAWYER: As
I went unconscious,
441
00:22:07,026 --> 00:22:10,430
I then, experienced a
sensation or a feeling
442
00:22:10,530 --> 00:22:12,465
of absolutely waking up.
443
00:22:12,565 --> 00:22:16,135
It wasn't anything at all like
waking up from a sleep state.
444
00:22:16,235 --> 00:22:20,072
It was like being unconscious
or absolutely asleep and then,
445
00:22:20,172 --> 00:22:23,376
like a click of the
fingernail, absolutely awake.
446
00:22:23,476 --> 00:22:25,912
The only problem with
this feeling of waking up
447
00:22:26,012 --> 00:22:29,148
was that all I saw was darkness.
448
00:22:29,248 --> 00:22:32,685
That darkness gradually
took the shape of a tunnel.
449
00:22:32,785 --> 00:22:37,123
And way off, absolutely,
positively to infinity,
450
00:22:37,223 --> 00:22:40,493
appeared this little
speck of white light.
451
00:22:40,593 --> 00:22:42,361
This was the most
beautiful thing that I had
452
00:22:42,462 --> 00:22:44,030
ever experienced in my life.
453
00:22:44,130 --> 00:22:45,832
It was just extraordinary.
454
00:22:48,968 --> 00:22:50,503
All the pressure
of the trunk being
455
00:22:50,603 --> 00:22:53,239
on me and the horrendous
pain, that was gone.
456
00:22:53,339 --> 00:22:57,744
And I felt very comfortable.
457
00:22:57,844 --> 00:22:59,612
The next thing
that I realized was
458
00:22:59,712 --> 00:23:02,449
that I was motionless at
the end of the tunnel.
459
00:23:02,549 --> 00:23:05,084
Confronted by the light of God.
460
00:23:05,184 --> 00:23:07,620
I was confronted by heaven.
461
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,923
That light included
absolutely everything.
462
00:23:11,023 --> 00:23:12,892
It was the entire universe.
463
00:23:12,992 --> 00:23:16,295
It was absolute total knowledge.
464
00:23:16,395 --> 00:23:20,399
I had the opportunity to
ask any question at all
465
00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:23,670
and the absolute,
unequivocal, correct answer
466
00:23:23,770 --> 00:23:24,971
would be emanated to me.
467
00:23:28,307 --> 00:23:31,878
I then experienced a
complete, total life review.
468
00:23:31,978 --> 00:23:35,715
It was every day, every event,
every minute and second.
469
00:23:35,815 --> 00:23:37,750
In other words, I relived
the Olympic trials,
470
00:23:37,850 --> 00:23:40,386
my marriage, all of these
things at the same time.
471
00:23:46,959 --> 00:23:48,895
I was then given a choice.
472
00:23:48,995 --> 00:23:54,000
To return to normal life or stay
and become part of this light.
473
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:56,102
I chose to stay and
become part of that light.
474
00:23:58,905 --> 00:24:01,641
But I then had a
feeling of going exactly
475
00:24:01,741 --> 00:24:03,275
reversal through the tunnel.
476
00:24:03,375 --> 00:24:05,244
And slamming back into my body.
477
00:24:10,517 --> 00:24:12,051
ROBERT STACK: Finally
as paramedics arrived,
478
00:24:12,151 --> 00:24:13,352
the truck was lifted off.
479
00:24:13,452 --> 00:24:16,188
And Sawyer was taken
to the hospital.
480
00:24:16,288 --> 00:24:17,990
- You'll be all right, Tom.
- On three.
481
00:24:18,090 --> 00:24:19,258
One, two, three.
482
00:24:19,358 --> 00:24:20,760
THOMAS SAWYER: Well I'm
probably the only one
483
00:24:20,860 --> 00:24:23,062
you'll ever meet that's
been kicked out heaven.
484
00:24:23,162 --> 00:24:26,265
Because, since I chose to stay
and become part of that light,
485
00:24:26,365 --> 00:24:29,301
and I am back here without
any explanation at all.
486
00:24:29,401 --> 00:24:32,238
One of the logical, deductive
things that you could assume
487
00:24:32,338 --> 00:24:34,941
was that I got kicked out
for some reason or another.
488
00:24:38,177 --> 00:24:40,212
ROBERT STACK: Surprisingly
Sawyer left the hospital,
489
00:24:40,312 --> 00:24:41,948
the same day of his accident.
490
00:24:42,048 --> 00:24:43,916
He had no broken bones,
though he suffered
491
00:24:44,016 --> 00:24:46,418
from some internal bleeding.
492
00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:49,255
According to medical reports,
Tom had been deprived
493
00:24:49,355 --> 00:24:53,392
of oxygen for 15 minutes.
494
00:24:53,492 --> 00:24:56,395
I vaguely recall
the ride home.
495
00:24:56,495 --> 00:24:57,997
I was in extreme
pain, of course.
496
00:24:58,097 --> 00:25:00,633
And I was just sitting in
the back seat, by myself,
497
00:25:00,733 --> 00:25:03,169
moaning and groaning
from the pain.
498
00:25:03,269 --> 00:25:06,372
But, apparently, when I was
riding home, all of a sudden,
499
00:25:06,472 --> 00:25:07,607
I blurted out and said--
500
00:25:07,707 --> 00:25:10,109
Oh, it was so beautiful.
501
00:25:10,209 --> 00:25:11,744
THOMAS SAWYER: And Elaine
turned around and said,
502
00:25:11,844 --> 00:25:12,779
what was so beautiful?
503
00:25:12,879 --> 00:25:14,013
What are you talking about?
504
00:25:14,113 --> 00:25:15,715
Well I didn't answer her at all.
505
00:25:15,815 --> 00:25:17,449
And I just continued
to moan and groan
506
00:25:17,550 --> 00:25:20,687
for the rest of the ride home.
507
00:25:20,787 --> 00:25:23,222
Elaine said to me, don't
you know what's happened?
508
00:25:23,322 --> 00:25:24,757
Don't you know what you've had?
509
00:25:24,857 --> 00:25:26,859
That's called a
near-death experience.
510
00:25:26,959 --> 00:25:30,129
Whereupon my response was,
well, I don't believe in any
511
00:25:30,229 --> 00:25:32,999
of that hocus pocus baloney.
512
00:25:33,099 --> 00:25:36,268
But, shortly after I
recuperated from the injuries
513
00:25:36,368 --> 00:25:39,538
from this accident, I
started saying things
514
00:25:39,639 --> 00:25:41,173
that I didn't understand.
515
00:25:41,273 --> 00:25:43,743
And my wife Elaine
didn't understand.
516
00:25:43,843 --> 00:25:47,079
And one particular day,
I was watching television
517
00:25:47,179 --> 00:25:48,981
and I kind of blurted out--
518
00:25:49,081 --> 00:25:50,282
Max Planck.
519
00:25:50,382 --> 00:25:51,951
THOMAS SAWYER: And I
said it just like that.
520
00:25:52,051 --> 00:25:54,020
Who?
Who's that?
521
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:55,588
THOMAS SAWYER: So, of
course, I asked my family
522
00:25:55,688 --> 00:25:57,189
if they knew who that was.
523
00:25:57,289 --> 00:26:00,259
And Elaine said, no, I
don't know who it is.
524
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,129
And then she asked me,
do you know who it is?
525
00:26:03,229 --> 00:26:05,932
And my answer was, well, no,
but you'll be hearing more
526
00:26:06,032 --> 00:26:07,399
about him in the near future.
527
00:26:07,499 --> 00:26:08,300
I don't understand that.
528
00:26:11,938 --> 00:26:15,141
ROBERT STACK: Elaine encouraged
him to write down his thoughts.
529
00:26:15,241 --> 00:26:18,144
Tom began to jot down
complex equations.
530
00:26:18,244 --> 00:26:19,912
Equations that could
only have been understood
531
00:26:20,012 --> 00:26:23,015
by a master of quantum physics.
532
00:26:23,115 --> 00:26:27,286
Tom also drew symbols like
the Greek letter, psi.
533
00:26:27,386 --> 00:26:28,888
THOMAS SAWYER: Sometimes
I would write something
534
00:26:28,988 --> 00:26:30,389
down and know that
it was correct
535
00:26:30,489 --> 00:26:31,958
but have no idea what it was.
536
00:26:32,058 --> 00:26:35,027
In other words, I would write
down a mathematical equation.
537
00:26:35,127 --> 00:26:38,497
Well I had geometry and
some algebra in high school.
538
00:26:38,597 --> 00:26:40,633
But this had symbols,
like triangles,
539
00:26:40,733 --> 00:26:44,771
and things like that in it.
540
00:26:44,871 --> 00:26:46,238
ROBERT STACK: In an
attempt to find out
541
00:26:46,338 --> 00:26:48,274
the meaning of these
arcane symbols,
542
00:26:48,374 --> 00:26:50,009
Sawyer went to the
Rochester library.
543
00:26:54,446 --> 00:26:57,283
He was directed to the physics
section and asked for guidance
544
00:26:57,383 --> 00:27:00,619
from a man he met at the stacks.
545
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,289
The man suggested a textbook
that contained information
546
00:27:03,389 --> 00:27:05,324
on quantum physics
and biographies
547
00:27:05,424 --> 00:27:06,993
of its pioneering founders.
548
00:27:07,093 --> 00:27:11,130
Well, yeah I think,
possibly, you might
549
00:27:11,230 --> 00:27:12,665
find this one interesting.
550
00:27:12,765 --> 00:27:13,565
Thank you.
551
00:27:13,666 --> 00:27:14,466
You're welcome.
552
00:27:16,736 --> 00:27:19,638
THOMAS SAWYER: When I opened
it, there were two things
553
00:27:19,739 --> 00:27:21,473
that stood out on that page.
554
00:27:21,573 --> 00:27:25,144
There was the symbol, psi, in
the middle of the paragraph.
555
00:27:25,244 --> 00:27:27,847
And there was a title, just
underneath a picture of a man.
556
00:27:27,947 --> 00:27:28,881
And it said Max Planck.
557
00:27:34,653 --> 00:27:35,922
BRUCE GREYSON: The
most common things
558
00:27:36,022 --> 00:27:38,524
we hear from people who have
had near death experiences are
559
00:27:38,624 --> 00:27:40,259
that they have a
much greater sense
560
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,429
now of being part of something
larger than themselves.
561
00:27:43,529 --> 00:27:44,964
They become interested
in, what can be called,
562
00:27:45,064 --> 00:27:47,599
the spiritual aspects
of their lives.
563
00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:49,702
They are no longer
invested in things,
564
00:27:49,802 --> 00:27:54,073
like, individual fame,
fortune, material
565
00:27:54,173 --> 00:27:57,243
rewards, competitiveness.
566
00:27:57,343 --> 00:28:00,646
They're much more involved in
cooperation, in helping others,
567
00:28:00,747 --> 00:28:02,048
than they were before.
568
00:28:02,148 --> 00:28:03,983
ELAINE SAWYER: He started
being a more loving person.
569
00:28:04,083 --> 00:28:08,821
He started caring about myself
and a lot of strangers, a lot
570
00:28:08,921 --> 00:28:09,956
of people he helped a lot.
571
00:28:10,056 --> 00:28:12,091
Anybody that needed
help, he would help.
572
00:28:12,191 --> 00:28:15,661
These people have undergone
profound and dramatic changes
573
00:28:15,762 --> 00:28:16,963
in their personality.
574
00:28:17,063 --> 00:28:17,930
And their lifestyle.
575
00:28:18,030 --> 00:28:19,131
And their values.
576
00:28:19,231 --> 00:28:20,967
All of them talk
about the importance
577
00:28:21,067 --> 00:28:24,904
of interpersonal relationships,
learning how to love others.
578
00:28:25,004 --> 00:28:28,941
A great sense of the importance
of wisdom and understanding.
579
00:28:29,041 --> 00:28:31,778
And, certainly, a renewed
appreciation of life.
580
00:28:31,878 --> 00:28:34,080
This is a genuine
spiritual experience
581
00:28:34,180 --> 00:28:37,449
which profoundly and
dramatically changes the way
582
00:28:37,549 --> 00:28:41,754
they are from then on out.
583
00:28:41,854 --> 00:28:46,959
One of the real dangers of all
the attention that near-death
584
00:28:47,059 --> 00:28:49,528
experience is getting
in the media is that
585
00:28:49,628 --> 00:28:52,198
it might romanticize death.
586
00:28:52,298 --> 00:28:54,300
It might lead people
who are contemplating
587
00:28:54,400 --> 00:29:00,272
suicide to think that death
is a wonderful experience.
588
00:29:00,372 --> 00:29:02,875
I suppose the near-death
experience does romanticize
589
00:29:02,975 --> 00:29:04,310
death in that regard.
590
00:29:04,410 --> 00:29:06,245
But if you listen to what
near-death experiences
591
00:29:06,345 --> 00:29:09,949
are saying, they're saying
it also romanticizes life.
592
00:29:10,049 --> 00:29:12,484
It makes life so much more
meaningful, more purposeful,
593
00:29:12,584 --> 00:29:14,653
more beautiful
than it was before.
594
00:29:14,753 --> 00:29:18,357
That suicide just becomes
not an option anymore.
595
00:29:18,457 --> 00:29:21,828
People have asked me, if
death is so wonderful and so
596
00:29:21,928 --> 00:29:24,130
sensational and you want
to be part of that light,
597
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:25,832
why don't you kill yourself?
598
00:29:25,932 --> 00:29:28,200
It's very important to
me to state to everybody
599
00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:32,671
that suicide is an absolute
impossibility for me.
600
00:29:32,771 --> 00:29:38,610
You know, it's not only
a social and legal no no.
601
00:29:38,710 --> 00:29:41,147
It's a moral and
spiritual no no also.
602
00:29:41,247 --> 00:29:44,216
To even think of or
consider suicide.
603
00:29:44,316 --> 00:29:47,519
I think the way these people
respond to the experience
604
00:29:47,619 --> 00:29:50,222
and the degree of
change that they
605
00:29:50,322 --> 00:29:54,026
experience after it, points to
a tremendously powerful force.
606
00:29:54,126 --> 00:29:55,995
The types of changes they
experience afterwards,
607
00:29:56,095 --> 00:29:57,897
the unusual abilities
they have afterwards,
608
00:29:57,997 --> 00:30:00,766
point to something far greater
than we're aware of now.
609
00:30:00,867 --> 00:30:02,601
Our usual explanations
of the way the brain,
610
00:30:02,701 --> 00:30:05,004
the way the mind works,
in terms of physiology,
611
00:30:05,104 --> 00:30:07,173
just don't explain
what's going on.
612
00:30:07,273 --> 00:30:10,742
Something larger at work
here than we're aware of yet.
613
00:30:10,843 --> 00:30:12,578
[music playing]
614
00:30:15,948 --> 00:30:17,816
ROBERT STACK: Are these
strange journeys only a prelude
615
00:30:17,917 --> 00:30:19,285
to a life after death?
616
00:30:19,385 --> 00:30:21,620
Or are they hallucinations?
617
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,122
Religions around the
world have grappled
618
00:30:23,222 --> 00:30:25,858
with metaphysical aspects
of these questions.
619
00:30:25,958 --> 00:30:28,995
And scientists have tried to
explain it in physical terms.
620
00:30:29,095 --> 00:30:31,397
Clearly death, and
what comes after,
621
00:30:31,497 --> 00:30:35,968
is the most profound
unsolved mystery of them all.
622
00:30:36,068 --> 00:30:38,437
[theme music]
623
00:30:42,975 --> 00:30:44,176
ROBERT STACK: On a
previous broadcast,
624
00:30:44,276 --> 00:30:46,612
we examined the story
of Dan Willains,
625
00:30:46,712 --> 00:30:48,247
a mysterious
prospector who spent
626
00:30:48,347 --> 00:30:51,283
his life searching for gold
in the Canadian wilderness.
627
00:30:51,383 --> 00:30:54,086
We asked our audience to help
locate his unknown heirs.
628
00:30:58,224 --> 00:31:00,993
In 1926, Willains was
panting at Red Lake
629
00:31:01,093 --> 00:31:04,030
in the province of Ontario,
when he found gold.
630
00:31:04,130 --> 00:31:05,797
He and his partner
staked their claim
631
00:31:05,898 --> 00:31:08,667
and established one of the most
profitable small gold mines
632
00:31:08,767 --> 00:31:11,603
in Canadian history.
633
00:31:11,703 --> 00:31:14,606
In 1936, Dan Willains set
out into the wilderness
634
00:31:14,706 --> 00:31:16,943
to do some solitary prospecting.
635
00:31:17,043 --> 00:31:19,078
He was never seen again.
636
00:31:19,178 --> 00:31:22,314
Willains left behind an
estate of almost $100,000,
637
00:31:22,414 --> 00:31:26,218
which today may be worth as
much as $3.5 million dollars.
638
00:31:26,318 --> 00:31:29,021
It has remained unclaimed
for more than 50 years.
639
00:31:31,924 --> 00:31:33,159
Update.
640
00:31:33,259 --> 00:31:35,694
Within days of our broadcast,
Davey Willains, a New York
641
00:31:35,794 --> 00:31:37,829
businessman, called
our 800 number,
642
00:31:37,930 --> 00:31:40,799
claiming he might be one of the
heirs to Dan Willains' fortune.
643
00:31:43,602 --> 00:31:45,437
DAVEY WILLAINS: My grandfather,
we have determined,
644
00:31:45,537 --> 00:31:50,009
came from the UK
to Ontario in 1895.
645
00:31:50,109 --> 00:31:52,844
At that time, he
was 11 years of age.
646
00:31:52,945 --> 00:31:56,148
We believe he traveled
with another family member.
647
00:31:56,248 --> 00:31:59,751
And we also have been told that
there was a cousin someplace
648
00:31:59,851 --> 00:32:01,787
up in the outback of Ontario.
649
00:32:01,887 --> 00:32:04,256
But there was never any
contact with that individual
650
00:32:04,356 --> 00:32:05,591
through the years.
651
00:32:05,691 --> 00:32:09,561
So when this Unsolved Mysteries
program aired and this Dan
652
00:32:09,661 --> 00:32:13,165
Willains a bushmen from
Ontario, was disclosed,
653
00:32:13,265 --> 00:32:15,667
it certainly was an
exciting possible link
654
00:32:15,767 --> 00:32:18,604
for our family-tree searching.
655
00:32:18,704 --> 00:32:20,172
ROBERT STACK: Davey
Willains flew to Toronto
656
00:32:20,272 --> 00:32:22,208
to meet Joe Perkins,
one of Dan Willains
657
00:32:22,308 --> 00:32:23,976
last surviving friends.
658
00:32:24,076 --> 00:32:26,512
He brought along photographs
of his grandfather, Harold
659
00:32:26,612 --> 00:32:28,047
Willains, and his
great-grandfather,
660
00:32:28,147 --> 00:32:31,917
John Willains, to see if there
was a family resemblance.
661
00:32:32,018 --> 00:32:33,819
JOE PERKINS: It was uncanny.
662
00:32:33,919 --> 00:32:35,787
I couldn't believe it.
663
00:32:35,887 --> 00:32:42,128
The similarity of the face, the
nose, the spacing of the eyes,
664
00:32:42,228 --> 00:32:49,468
forehead, and, I think if you
took the beard off the old man,
665
00:32:49,568 --> 00:32:52,104
they'd look like twins.
666
00:32:52,204 --> 00:32:53,439
ROBERT STACK: Indeed
there does seem
667
00:32:53,539 --> 00:32:55,074
to be a strong resemblance.
668
00:32:55,174 --> 00:32:57,376
Our great grandfather,
John, grandfather,
669
00:32:57,476 --> 00:33:01,280
Harold, and prospector, Dan
Willains, all blood relatives.
670
00:33:01,380 --> 00:33:05,051
Is Davey an heir to
Dan Willains' fortune?
671
00:33:05,151 --> 00:33:07,319
DAVEY WILLAINS: Certainly money
is important to everybody.
672
00:33:07,419 --> 00:33:10,556
And if the Ontario government
is holding considerable assets
673
00:33:10,656 --> 00:33:13,259
that could rightfully be
claimed by a Willains,
674
00:33:13,359 --> 00:33:15,061
then I'd like to
see that happen.
675
00:33:15,161 --> 00:33:17,663
I don't know if it'll be
me and my cousins or not.
676
00:33:17,763 --> 00:33:21,333
But maybe now we can get some
Willains to come forward.
677
00:33:21,433 --> 00:33:24,136
And maybe we do have a
strong case to be made.
678
00:33:24,236 --> 00:33:26,872
And certainly we are going
to take the next steps
679
00:33:26,972 --> 00:33:29,408
to pursue that possibility
680
00:33:29,508 --> 00:33:31,343
[music playing]
681
00:33:38,550 --> 00:33:39,718
ROBERT STACK: In a
moment, the story
682
00:33:39,818 --> 00:33:42,221
of a 46-year-old repairman
who was brutally murdered
683
00:33:42,321 --> 00:33:44,523
in a quiet town in rural Ohio.
684
00:33:44,623 --> 00:33:49,728
Police have three bizarre
theories, but no suspects.
685
00:33:49,828 --> 00:33:51,230
[theme music]
686
00:33:59,271 --> 00:34:01,673
ROBERT STACK: May
the 23rd, 1982.
687
00:34:01,773 --> 00:34:03,542
In the small town of
Hammersville, Ohio,
688
00:34:03,642 --> 00:34:06,112
a 15-year-old boy
riding his parents lawn
689
00:34:06,212 --> 00:34:09,815
mower back home after a mowing
job made a terrible discovery.
690
00:34:13,752 --> 00:34:16,955
It was a man's body,
nude and beaten.
691
00:34:17,055 --> 00:34:19,925
That night the man would be
identified as 46-year-old
692
00:34:20,025 --> 00:34:22,628
Perman Gilbert, an
appliance repairman
693
00:34:22,728 --> 00:34:27,099
who lived just seven miles from
the place his body was found.
694
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:29,735
The most puzzling thing
about Perman Gilbert's murder
695
00:34:29,835 --> 00:34:31,137
is that he appeared,
to those who know him,
696
00:34:31,237 --> 00:34:34,473
to lead such a normal,
non-controversial life.
697
00:34:34,573 --> 00:34:37,008
Yet some believe that just
beneath a comforting small town
698
00:34:37,109 --> 00:34:39,578
facade, dark forces swirled.
699
00:34:39,678 --> 00:34:41,347
As the citizens of
Clermont County,
700
00:34:41,447 --> 00:34:43,915
Ohio discussed Perman
Gilbert's murder,
701
00:34:44,015 --> 00:34:46,452
phrases like
organized crime, drug
702
00:34:46,552 --> 00:34:49,221
trafficking, and jealous
husband began to surface.
703
00:34:51,957 --> 00:34:54,826
Gilbert was a beloved
husband and father of four.
704
00:34:54,926 --> 00:34:57,129
He and his family belong
to the Church of Christ
705
00:34:57,229 --> 00:35:00,166
and participated in the civic
life of the rural Ohio county
706
00:35:00,266 --> 00:35:03,335
where they had lived
their whole lives.
707
00:35:03,435 --> 00:35:06,071
Perman Gilbert remained close
to his siblings, especially
708
00:35:06,172 --> 00:35:08,540
his youngest brother who was
always in and out of trouble
709
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,576
with the law.
710
00:35:10,676 --> 00:35:12,744
Perman's hobby was flying,
but he was employed
711
00:35:12,844 --> 00:35:14,980
as an appliance repairman.
712
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:16,682
Assigned by a
nationally known company
713
00:35:16,782 --> 00:35:18,617
as their troubleshooter.
714
00:35:18,717 --> 00:35:20,552
He worked for the large
firm during the week,
715
00:35:20,652 --> 00:35:23,455
but on Saturdays Perman made
independent service calls,
716
00:35:23,555 --> 00:35:26,458
answering only to himself.
717
00:35:26,558 --> 00:35:28,394
JOANN GILBERT: When he
left that Saturday morning,
718
00:35:28,494 --> 00:35:30,696
it was probably 8:30.
719
00:35:30,796 --> 00:35:33,899
And he said he
didn't want to go.
720
00:35:33,999 --> 00:35:36,968
And it just, now it bothers me.
721
00:35:37,068 --> 00:35:39,037
That's what I remember about
him leaving that morning.
722
00:35:41,873 --> 00:35:43,041
ROBERT STACK: Perman
Gilbert's service
723
00:35:43,141 --> 00:35:44,543
appointments that
Saturday morning
724
00:35:44,643 --> 00:35:47,078
took him to Mount Orab, Ohio.
725
00:35:47,179 --> 00:35:51,683
And also further south to
Georgetown and Aberdeen, Ohio.
726
00:35:51,783 --> 00:35:53,118
Hi, Mr Gilbert, how are you?
727
00:35:53,219 --> 00:35:54,653
Fine, just call me Perm.
728
00:35:54,753 --> 00:35:56,788
Perm, I keep smelling
gas in my kitchen.
729
00:35:56,888 --> 00:35:57,956
I think it's my pilot light.
730
00:35:58,056 --> 00:35:59,191
ROBERT STACK:
Gilbert's service calls
731
00:35:59,291 --> 00:36:02,861
had put him at the
southernmost tip of Ohio.
732
00:36:02,961 --> 00:36:05,264
When the calls were completed,
he crossed the Simon Kenton
733
00:36:05,364 --> 00:36:07,633
bridge into Maysville,
Kentucky and stopped in
734
00:36:07,733 --> 00:36:11,437
at a large market
and variety store.
735
00:36:11,537 --> 00:36:13,939
Ann Breeze, who works at
the market checkout counter,
736
00:36:14,039 --> 00:36:16,475
remembers his visit
that Saturday.
737
00:36:16,575 --> 00:36:18,277
- Hi, Ann, how are you today?
- Just fine, how are you?
738
00:36:18,377 --> 00:36:19,411
He was tall.
739
00:36:19,511 --> 00:36:23,215
A nice looking man, he
was always very neat.
740
00:36:23,315 --> 00:36:25,484
Greeted you, you
know, very friendly
741
00:36:25,584 --> 00:36:26,552
every time you saw him.
742
00:36:26,652 --> 00:36:29,087
I never saw the man
down or act like he
743
00:36:29,187 --> 00:36:30,889
had a care in the world.
744
00:36:30,989 --> 00:36:33,225
You going to have
lunch with me today?
745
00:36:33,325 --> 00:36:35,160
No, I can't have
lunch with you.
746
00:36:35,261 --> 00:36:37,296
Well I guess I have
to eat that bologna
747
00:36:37,396 --> 00:36:38,397
and cheese by myself.
748
00:36:38,497 --> 00:36:39,865
ANN BREEZE: He would
usually say that to me.
749
00:36:39,965 --> 00:36:41,767
And he knew that I wouldn't
go to lunch with him.
750
00:36:41,867 --> 00:36:45,537
You know, just
usual chit chatter.
751
00:36:45,637 --> 00:36:47,873
ROBERT STACK: When Perman left
the market checkout counter,
752
00:36:47,973 --> 00:36:52,278
he walked into the
flower shop next door.
753
00:36:52,378 --> 00:36:53,445
DONNA PHIPPS: He
pushed the buzzer.
754
00:36:53,545 --> 00:36:55,146
And I came from the back.
755
00:36:55,247 --> 00:36:57,949
And I asked if I could help him.
756
00:36:58,049 --> 00:37:01,387
He said he'd like to know if
another employee was here.
757
00:37:01,487 --> 00:37:04,189
And I said no she
doesn't come until 4.
758
00:37:04,290 --> 00:37:05,757
And if I could help him, anyway.
759
00:37:05,857 --> 00:37:08,327
And he said, no, he wanted
to order some flowers.
760
00:37:08,427 --> 00:37:11,162
And they knew what he
wanted and everything.
761
00:37:11,263 --> 00:37:13,699
And he said he would
come back later.
762
00:37:13,799 --> 00:37:14,900
She knows what I wanted.
763
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:15,801
OK.
764
00:37:15,901 --> 00:37:17,135
Thank you.
765
00:37:17,235 --> 00:37:18,604
There was nothing
unusual about him.
766
00:37:18,704 --> 00:37:20,506
He was just a normal customer.
767
00:37:20,606 --> 00:37:25,277
He wasn't nervous or
anything when I met him.
768
00:37:25,377 --> 00:37:27,746
ROBERT STACK: No one can account
for Perman Gilbert's movements
769
00:37:27,846 --> 00:37:29,815
after he left the flower shop.
770
00:37:29,915 --> 00:37:32,284
He had told his wife he'd
be back home around 3:00 PM,
771
00:37:32,384 --> 00:37:36,722
but he did not arrive.
772
00:37:36,822 --> 00:37:39,458
Then it got to be
dark and he wasn't here.
773
00:37:39,558 --> 00:37:41,993
Then it got to be midnight.
774
00:37:42,093 --> 00:37:44,430
And I was scared.
775
00:37:44,530 --> 00:37:47,466
And I was afraid
to go out, even.
776
00:37:47,566 --> 00:37:50,336
I had a small child and I was
afraid to put her in the car
777
00:37:50,436 --> 00:37:51,970
and go out looking.
778
00:37:52,070 --> 00:37:55,374
And then, I think, about
3:00 in the morning,
779
00:37:55,474 --> 00:37:56,708
I called one of our friends.
780
00:37:56,808 --> 00:37:59,945
And, you know, have
you seen Perman?
781
00:38:00,045 --> 00:38:00,879
Do you know where he's at?
782
00:38:00,979 --> 00:38:02,013
Anything like that.
783
00:38:02,113 --> 00:38:02,914
And they didn't.
784
00:38:05,551 --> 00:38:07,953
ROBERT STACK: Joann
Gilbert called the police.
785
00:38:08,053 --> 00:38:09,655
They were unable to
turn up any leads
786
00:38:09,755 --> 00:38:11,323
until late the
next afternoon when
787
00:38:11,423 --> 00:38:13,692
her husband's body was found.
788
00:38:13,792 --> 00:38:16,495
He was completely nude.
789
00:38:16,595 --> 00:38:17,796
He didn't have any clothes on.
790
00:38:17,896 --> 00:38:19,698
That bothered me.
791
00:38:19,798 --> 00:38:21,700
I would like to know
why that was done.
792
00:38:24,336 --> 00:38:26,672
I've heard it's to
humiliate the family.
793
00:38:26,772 --> 00:38:29,541
I don't know that's
why it was done.
794
00:38:29,641 --> 00:38:36,448
Maybe it was done to make
it longer to identify him.
795
00:38:36,548 --> 00:38:38,484
ROBERT STACK: Because no clothes
fibers were found in the two
796
00:38:38,584 --> 00:38:41,119
bullet wounds,
Clermont County police
797
00:38:41,219 --> 00:38:43,422
believe that Perman had
been naked above the waist
798
00:38:43,522 --> 00:38:44,390
at the time he was shot.
799
00:38:49,728 --> 00:38:51,797
Perman's billfold, carrying
the symbol of the Masons,
800
00:38:51,897 --> 00:38:53,799
was missing, along
with his clothes.
801
00:38:53,899 --> 00:38:56,368
So was the Masonic belt
buckle he always wore.
802
00:38:59,771 --> 00:39:02,207
Although Perman's
clothes were never found,
803
00:39:02,307 --> 00:39:04,075
his van was located
the next day.
804
00:39:04,175 --> 00:39:06,177
22 miles away from
the spot where
805
00:39:06,277 --> 00:39:08,814
his body had been discovered.
806
00:39:08,914 --> 00:39:10,382
JOHN VAN CAMP: Perman
Gilbert's watch was still
807
00:39:10,482 --> 00:39:12,851
hanging on the gearshift lever.
808
00:39:12,951 --> 00:39:16,655
His toolbox was in there.
809
00:39:16,755 --> 00:39:20,426
Parts and supplies was
in place in the van.
810
00:39:20,526 --> 00:39:25,063
We did do an
inspection of the van
811
00:39:25,163 --> 00:39:28,033
and recover fingerprints
and hair samples.
812
00:39:28,133 --> 00:39:30,602
And, at this time,
we have not been
813
00:39:30,702 --> 00:39:36,675
able to match the fingerprints
and hair samples to anyone.
814
00:39:36,775 --> 00:39:38,076
ROBERT STACK: In
the investigation
815
00:39:38,176 --> 00:39:42,548
that followed Perman Gilbert's
death, three theories evolved.
816
00:39:42,648 --> 00:39:44,716
I think that whatever
happened to him
817
00:39:44,816 --> 00:39:48,219
had something to do with drugs.
818
00:39:48,319 --> 00:39:49,988
ROBERT STACK: Perman
was a licensed pilot.
819
00:39:50,088 --> 00:39:52,858
He owned a small plane which he
flew out of a makeshift landing
820
00:39:52,958 --> 00:39:53,759
strip on his farm.
821
00:39:59,264 --> 00:40:05,937
Perman told me that he had
been approached to fly drugs.
822
00:40:06,037 --> 00:40:07,072
How's it going?
823
00:40:07,172 --> 00:40:09,475
OK, What's happening?
824
00:40:09,575 --> 00:40:10,876
Well we had a little
favor we'd like you
825
00:40:10,976 --> 00:40:11,777
to do for us if you don't mind.
- No.
826
00:40:11,877 --> 00:40:13,411
It's just a little trip.
827
00:40:13,512 --> 00:40:16,081
JOANN GILBERT: And all he had
to do was to take the airplane
828
00:40:16,181 --> 00:40:19,417
and fly it to a certain airport.
829
00:40:19,518 --> 00:40:22,387
Go in and have a cup of
coffee, come back out,
830
00:40:22,488 --> 00:40:24,790
and there'd be money laying
on the seat or under the seat.
831
00:40:24,890 --> 00:40:26,024
I don't want
nothing to do with it.
832
00:40:26,124 --> 00:40:27,893
Just forget it.
- It's good money.
833
00:40:27,993 --> 00:40:29,127
No, that's all right.
834
00:40:29,227 --> 00:40:30,328
If these guys don't
quit bugging me,
835
00:40:30,428 --> 00:40:32,263
I'm going to call
the authorities.
836
00:40:32,363 --> 00:40:33,765
And it would have
been easy money,
837
00:40:33,865 --> 00:40:37,636
but that's against the law
and it was against everything
838
00:40:37,736 --> 00:40:39,671
that we believed in.
839
00:40:39,771 --> 00:40:42,340
I believe that he
knew too much about what
840
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,543
was going on as far
as who was involved
841
00:40:44,643 --> 00:40:46,512
with drugs and who wasn't.
842
00:40:46,612 --> 00:40:48,880
Because he would not go
along with their plan,
843
00:40:48,980 --> 00:40:53,218
that he was beaten and
killed because of it.
844
00:40:53,318 --> 00:40:54,553
ROBERT STACK: The
second theory revolves
845
00:40:54,653 --> 00:40:57,756
around Perman Gilbert's
youngest brother, Vernon.
846
00:40:57,856 --> 00:40:59,925
Vernon was 12 years
younger than Perman
847
00:41:00,025 --> 00:41:01,493
and they were devoted
to one another.
848
00:41:01,593 --> 00:41:02,961
You sure you can't
stay the night then?
849
00:41:03,061 --> 00:41:04,395
ROBERT STACK: No, I
want to be getting back.
850
00:41:04,496 --> 00:41:06,031
ROBERT STACK: In
February of 1982,
851
00:41:06,131 --> 00:41:08,734
when Vernon was called to
testify in an organized crime
852
00:41:08,834 --> 00:41:10,702
case, Perman stood by him.
853
00:41:10,802 --> 00:41:12,103
--from there, it'll
take a little while.
854
00:41:12,203 --> 00:41:13,404
OK, it should be
about an hour or so.
855
00:41:13,505 --> 00:41:14,239
OK?
- About an hour?
856
00:41:14,339 --> 00:41:15,741
OK.
I'll be around.
857
00:41:15,841 --> 00:41:17,242
See you in an hour.
Good luck to you.
858
00:41:17,342 --> 00:41:18,777
Thanks
859
00:41:18,877 --> 00:41:19,845
ROBERT STACK: The
actual hearings
860
00:41:19,945 --> 00:41:21,947
were closed to the public.
861
00:41:22,047 --> 00:41:23,882
And Perman had to kill
time while his brother
862
00:41:23,982 --> 00:41:25,951
was testifying.
863
00:41:26,051 --> 00:41:28,319
He began to suspect that
he was being followed.
864
00:41:31,757 --> 00:41:34,860
JOHN VAN CAMP: Perman Gilbert
had told acquaintances
865
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,865
that he felt at the day at
the federal court building,
866
00:41:39,965 --> 00:41:43,301
that a man was
following him around.
867
00:41:43,401 --> 00:41:45,937
I don't know of any
person that might have
868
00:41:46,037 --> 00:41:47,639
been following
Perman Gilbert and it
869
00:41:47,739 --> 00:41:51,009
was not any of our personnel.
870
00:41:51,109 --> 00:41:52,578
ROBERT STACK: Perhaps
Perman Gilbert had become
871
00:41:52,678 --> 00:41:54,946
a target of organized crime.
872
00:41:55,046 --> 00:41:58,016
JOANN GILBERT: Maybe my
husband knew too much.
873
00:41:58,116 --> 00:42:01,620
Maybe Perman was killed who
to lure his brother back
874
00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:02,688
to the funeral.
875
00:42:02,788 --> 00:42:06,357
And because they were
after him, really.
876
00:42:06,457 --> 00:42:08,126
But then his brother
didn't come to the funeral.
877
00:42:10,829 --> 00:42:11,830
ROBERT STACK: The
third theory is
878
00:42:11,930 --> 00:42:13,131
that Perman Gilbert
may have been
879
00:42:13,231 --> 00:42:14,499
involved in a crime of passion.
880
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:15,400
Oh.
881
00:42:15,500 --> 00:42:16,367
Hi, Perm.
882
00:42:16,467 --> 00:42:17,869
Thanks for coming
over right away.
883
00:42:17,969 --> 00:42:18,436
Hi.
It's no problem.
884
00:42:18,536 --> 00:42:19,337
How you been?
885
00:42:19,437 --> 00:42:20,538
What's your problem?
886
00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:22,273
The washing machine is
making this grinding noise.
887
00:42:22,373 --> 00:42:25,977
The very nature of Perman
Gilbert's home appliance repair
888
00:42:26,077 --> 00:42:30,181
business placed him into
many, many households,
889
00:42:30,281 --> 00:42:33,685
alone with a family member.
890
00:42:33,785 --> 00:42:35,320
Yes, I thought he
was very attractive.
891
00:42:35,420 --> 00:42:39,725
And I know other women were
very attracted to him too.
892
00:42:39,825 --> 00:42:42,994
He was tall, about six, two.
893
00:42:43,094 --> 00:42:48,499
Well-built. Had nice
hair, pretty eyes.
894
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,035
And a nice looking man.
895
00:42:53,171 --> 00:42:55,340
I really didn't
know about his death
896
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,910
until someone from
in his home area
897
00:42:59,010 --> 00:43:02,948
came through and said there
was one or two theories.
898
00:43:03,048 --> 00:43:06,752
But one was that they
thought a jealous boyfriend
899
00:43:06,852 --> 00:43:09,487
or husband had killed him.
900
00:43:09,587 --> 00:43:14,192
I feel that the crime of
passion theory doesn't hold up.
901
00:43:14,292 --> 00:43:17,562
Because that's supposed to be
something that's very swift.
902
00:43:17,663 --> 00:43:20,966
And they beat around
on him like someone
903
00:43:21,066 --> 00:43:24,169
was trying to get information
out of him or something.
904
00:43:24,269 --> 00:43:26,037
What we need
now is for someone
905
00:43:26,137 --> 00:43:30,876
to come forward and
help us trace Perman
906
00:43:30,976 --> 00:43:33,144
Gilbert from that flower shop.
907
00:43:33,244 --> 00:43:38,449
Anyone that has seen him
around the flower shop
908
00:43:38,549 --> 00:43:42,888
or in the parking lot with
his cream and brown van,
909
00:43:42,988 --> 00:43:44,690
at that time or
later in the day.
910
00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:46,557
We'd like to hear from.
911
00:43:46,658 --> 00:43:47,893
And I feel like
there are people
912
00:43:47,993 --> 00:43:49,394
out there, in the
community, that know
913
00:43:49,494 --> 00:43:51,096
what happened to my father.
914
00:43:51,196 --> 00:43:53,932
And for fear of their own
lives, or other people,
915
00:43:54,032 --> 00:43:55,300
they're afraid to speak up.
916
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,869
I wish that they would come
forward and fill in those bits
917
00:43:57,969 --> 00:43:58,904
and pieces for us.
918
00:44:02,908 --> 00:44:04,275
[theme music]
919
00:44:12,250 --> 00:44:14,485
ROBERT STACK: Next week
on Unsolved Mysteries,
920
00:44:14,585 --> 00:44:16,187
an examination of
the legend of Billy
921
00:44:16,287 --> 00:44:19,524
the Kid that suggests history
may have to be rewritten.
922
00:44:19,624 --> 00:44:21,459
Most historians and
Hollywood screen versions
923
00:44:21,559 --> 00:44:22,761
claim that Billy
was dramatically
924
00:44:22,861 --> 00:44:26,497
gunned down by his friend
Sheriff Pat Garrett in 1881.
925
00:44:26,597 --> 00:44:30,101
But the people of tiny Hico,
Texas say that's all bunk.
926
00:44:30,201 --> 00:44:31,737
That one of their
own citizens, a man
927
00:44:31,837 --> 00:44:34,906
named Brushy Bill Roberts,
was the real Billy the Kid.
928
00:44:35,006 --> 00:44:38,209
And that he died
in 1950, 69 years
929
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:40,245
after the famous gunfight.
930
00:44:40,345 --> 00:44:45,150
We'll examine the evidence next
week on Unsolved Mysteries.
931
00:44:45,250 --> 00:44:48,519
[theme music]
73954
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