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1
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It's no longer the era of industry.
2
00:00:41,450 --> 00:00:43,890
We're in a technological era,
fundamentally.
3
00:00:47,170 --> 00:00:50,189
The fascists, they have the resources.
4
00:00:50,289 --> 00:00:52,509
But we have imagination.
5
00:00:52,609 --> 00:00:56,170
We are making the tools
to take back our sovereignty.
6
00:00:57,250 --> 00:01:01,149
When we make a giant "fuck you" to the
system, it's breaking that stranglehold
7
00:01:01,250 --> 00:01:04,890
on the tools of power
that's used against us.
8
00:01:05,890 --> 00:01:08,010
The fascists always use the narrative of,
9
00:01:08,129 --> 00:01:12,810
"We are the white knights in shining armor
protecting against the threats.
10
00:01:12,930 --> 00:01:17,870
We come here and we move out
the dark with pure whiteness."
11
00:01:17,969 --> 00:01:20,170
That's a false narrative,
12
00:01:20,289 --> 00:01:23,909
because there is corruption
in those castles.
13
00:01:24,010 --> 00:01:27,269
The real base of power lies with us.
14
00:01:27,370 --> 00:01:29,329
We are the darkness.
15
00:02:09,009 --> 00:02:12,329
A trial, which potentially,
could have very far-reaching implications
16
00:02:12,449 --> 00:02:14,688
has just started in New York City.
17
00:02:15,848 --> 00:02:19,429
A jury will decide a case that could
impact the future of Internet privacy.
18
00:02:19,528 --> 00:02:24,609
Thousands of drugs came through
the black website called "Silk Road."
19
00:02:24,968 --> 00:02:28,868
The government overstepped their boundaries
to acquire the info they claim they have.
20
00:02:28,968 --> 00:02:30,429
This is not going away.
21
00:02:30,528 --> 00:02:35,248
This is gonna be the biggest takedown
of what is currently in existence.
22
00:02:40,049 --> 00:02:42,748
On January 13, 2015,
23
00:02:42,848 --> 00:02:46,248
a criminal trial began
for the accused leader of the Silk Road,
24
00:02:46,368 --> 00:02:50,408
a black market in an area of the Internet
known as "the deep web."
25
00:02:52,408 --> 00:02:54,308
The deep web is vast,
26
00:02:54,408 --> 00:02:57,149
thousands of times larger
than the visible Internet,
27
00:02:57,248 --> 00:02:59,228
what's called the "surface web."
28
00:02:59,329 --> 00:03:01,288
But the deep web is not a place.
29
00:03:01,408 --> 00:03:04,868
It simply accounts for all of
the unindexed content online...
30
00:03:04,968 --> 00:03:07,549
banking data, administrative
code for governments,
31
00:03:07,649 --> 00:03:09,549
corporations and universities.
32
00:03:09,649 --> 00:03:12,609
It's like looking under
the hood of the Internet.
33
00:03:12,728 --> 00:03:16,269
Over time, the deep web became
inhabited by people of all types
34
00:03:16,368 --> 00:03:19,169
who wanted to use
this terrain for privacy.
35
00:03:19,288 --> 00:03:22,588
This hidden area of the deep web
is called the "dark net"
36
00:03:22,688 --> 00:03:25,769
and it's accessible
with a software service called "Tor,"
37
00:03:25,889 --> 00:03:30,989
originally developed by the US military
and now open source and publicly funded.
38
00:03:31,088 --> 00:03:35,109
And while law enforcement and the media have
painted a picture that Tor and the dark net
39
00:03:35,209 --> 00:03:37,228
are nefarious tools for criminals,
40
00:03:37,329 --> 00:03:40,549
it's important to understand that
they are largely used for good
41
00:03:40,649 --> 00:03:45,288
by government agencies, journalists
and dissidents around the world.
42
00:03:51,049 --> 00:03:53,609
In the summer of 2011,
43
00:03:53,728 --> 00:03:56,709
an ad for the Silk Road
appeared on the dark net.
44
00:03:56,808 --> 00:04:00,748
The Silk Road was an underground
exchange for any type of goods,
45
00:04:00,848 --> 00:04:03,688
but mostly it was used for drugs.
46
00:04:03,808 --> 00:04:06,149
There have always been
drug markets online,
47
00:04:06,248 --> 00:04:10,889
but none with the scale, sophistication
and ease of use as the Silk Road.
48
00:04:11,009 --> 00:04:13,128
It would not remain underground for long.
49
00:04:14,088 --> 00:04:17,869
Hundreds of thousands of users
use the impossible-to-trace website
50
00:04:17,968 --> 00:04:22,028
which sells drugs,
forged documents and even hit men.
51
00:04:22,129 --> 00:04:24,028
It's called the Silk Road.
52
00:04:24,129 --> 00:04:28,769
Just look at some of the 13,000 items
offered through that underground site.
53
00:04:28,889 --> 00:04:32,228
Ultra clean cocaine, clean and real LSD,
54
00:04:32,329 --> 00:04:35,588
high grade MDMA, also known as "Molly"...
55
00:04:35,689 --> 00:04:37,608
all with fast and free shipping.
56
00:04:37,728 --> 00:04:41,608
It generated roughly $1.2 billion in sales
57
00:04:41,728 --> 00:04:46,149
with nearly 960,000 users,
both buyers and sellers,
58
00:04:46,249 --> 00:04:49,307
in the US and more than a dozen
other countries worldwide.
59
00:04:49,408 --> 00:04:52,487
YouTube videos like this one
with 15,000 views
60
00:04:52,608 --> 00:04:57,228
tell anyone how to download
an untraceable technology known as Tor
61
00:04:57,327 --> 00:05:00,608
that pulls data from thousands
of computers worldwide
62
00:05:00,728 --> 00:05:03,307
to create this wide open marketplace.
63
00:05:03,408 --> 00:05:08,127
This hidden Internet is underpinned
by a virtual currency called "Bitcoin."
64
00:05:08,247 --> 00:05:10,567
Bitcoins offer anonymized transactions,
65
00:05:10,687 --> 00:05:14,367
which can be almost impossible
for the police to trace.
66
00:05:14,487 --> 00:05:18,887
Heroin, opium, cannabis, ecstasy,
psychedelics, stimulants...
67
00:05:20,728 --> 00:05:23,168
opioids. And here they are.
68
00:05:23,288 --> 00:05:25,408
So, oxycodone, all of those.
69
00:05:25,528 --> 00:05:29,608
Codeine, black tar heroin.
You name it, they have it.
70
00:05:29,728 --> 00:05:33,408
They're all listed in the light of day.
It's unbelievable.
71
00:05:34,007 --> 00:05:37,668
The Silk Road's success was largely due
to an innovative combination
72
00:05:37,768 --> 00:05:39,468
of Tor and Bitcoin.
73
00:05:39,567 --> 00:05:44,348
Bitcoin is a technology that uses
cryptographic code to create digital currency.
74
00:05:44,447 --> 00:05:48,228
The sender transmits their Bitcoin code
through a ledger called the "block chain"
75
00:05:48,327 --> 00:05:50,048
to arrive at the recipient.
76
00:05:50,168 --> 00:05:52,608
Bitcoin is not perfectly anonymous.
77
00:05:52,728 --> 00:05:57,507
But if used carefully, it facilitates
online purchases without revealing identity.
78
00:05:57,608 --> 00:06:00,267
Bitcoin was an ideal currency
for the Silk Road,
79
00:06:00,367 --> 00:06:01,968
because it allows for anonymity
80
00:06:02,088 --> 00:06:05,408
and is outside the control
of banks and governments.
81
00:06:11,447 --> 00:06:15,648
I really became aware of the Silk Road
when Adrian Chen at Gawker,
82
00:06:15,768 --> 00:06:17,567
did his profile.
83
00:06:19,768 --> 00:06:23,148
I think in a way, that story, as much as
it documented the Silk Road,
84
00:06:23,247 --> 00:06:27,867
it created the Silk Road, too. I mean...
it drove so many people to the site.
85
00:06:27,968 --> 00:06:32,168
I think it probably was an order of magnitude
increase in users on the Silk Road.
86
00:06:32,288 --> 00:06:34,788
So from that point on,
I felt like I had missed the story
87
00:06:34,887 --> 00:06:38,268
and I wanted the next big story
on the Silk Road.
88
00:06:38,367 --> 00:06:42,588
But I was also just fascinated
with the community that was...
89
00:06:42,687 --> 00:06:45,148
you know, being created there.
90
00:06:45,247 --> 00:06:48,968
eBay doesn't have that kind
of user community.
91
00:06:49,088 --> 00:06:53,228
This was like a really tight-knit
movement of people.
92
00:06:53,327 --> 00:06:57,028
It was a fascinating thing
just to lurk around in.
93
00:06:57,127 --> 00:07:00,827
It's a certifiable,
one-stop shop for illegal drugs
94
00:07:00,927 --> 00:07:03,588
that represents the most brazen attempt
95
00:07:03,687 --> 00:07:06,528
to peddle drugs online
that we have ever seen.
96
00:07:06,648 --> 00:07:09,327
It's more brazen
than anything else by light-years.
97
00:07:09,447 --> 00:07:12,507
I mean, they had a really big,
you know, target on their back.
98
00:07:12,608 --> 00:07:17,548
And they even had been taunting,
to some extent, law enforcement
99
00:07:17,648 --> 00:07:21,348
and, you know, the powers that be
by doing this in the open.
100
00:07:21,447 --> 00:07:24,608
And that's actually part of what
this marketplace is all about.
101
00:07:24,728 --> 00:07:28,707
It's not so much about selling drugs
as much as it is to say...
102
00:07:28,807 --> 00:07:32,648
to make a political statement
of sorts, right?
103
00:07:32,768 --> 00:07:35,627
"This shouldn't be prohibited.
We're free to do what we want
104
00:07:35,726 --> 00:07:37,887
and we have the technology to do it.
So there."
105
00:07:38,567 --> 00:07:41,146
The news around the Silk Road
came almost entirely
106
00:07:41,247 --> 00:07:43,567
from law enforcement
and government officials
107
00:07:43,687 --> 00:07:47,427
with little insight from those
who were behind the market itself.
108
00:07:47,526 --> 00:07:51,067
So the core architects and vendors
of the Silk Road were sought out
109
00:07:51,167 --> 00:07:56,067
using encryption keys to verify their
identities and preserving their anonymity.
110
00:07:56,167 --> 00:07:58,906
This is the first time
they have spoken publicly.
111
00:07:59,007 --> 00:08:03,206
[The Silk Road forums were a better
community than I've ever seen in real life.]
112
00:08:03,326 --> 00:08:07,367
[There were many threads that had great
political and philosophical discussions.]
113
00:08:07,487 --> 00:08:09,427
[Sure there were illegal things going on,]
114
00:08:09,526 --> 00:08:13,086
[but this was a real community
of like minded people.]
115
00:08:13,846 --> 00:08:16,367
The Silk Road didn't appear
to have a single leader.
116
00:08:16,646 --> 00:08:19,586
There were the regular posts
from the systems administrator,
117
00:08:19,687 --> 00:08:23,167
but otherwise the service appeared to be
primarily community-run.
118
00:08:23,286 --> 00:08:25,826
Then on February 5, 2012,
119
00:08:25,927 --> 00:08:28,266
after a highly successful
first year of business,
120
00:08:28,367 --> 00:08:30,706
the Silk Road administrator
made an announcement...
121
00:08:30,807 --> 00:08:32,986
[I need an identity
separate from the site,]
122
00:08:33,086 --> 00:08:35,527
[and the enterprise
of which I am only a part.]
123
00:08:35,726 --> 00:08:38,667
[I need a name. Drum roll, please...]
124
00:08:38,767 --> 00:08:42,006
[My new name is... Dread Pirate Roberts.]
125
00:08:42,126 --> 00:08:44,746
- You're the Dread Pirate Roberts, admit it.
- With pride.
126
00:08:44,846 --> 00:08:47,787
The Dread Pirate Roberts was cribbed
from the mythical character
127
00:08:47,886 --> 00:08:52,067
from the novel and film "The Princess Bride,"
and the choice was no accident.
128
00:08:52,167 --> 00:08:55,047
In the original story by William Goldman,
the Dread Pirate Roberts
129
00:08:55,167 --> 00:08:59,547
was a nom de guerre handed down from
user to user and passed along eternally.
130
00:08:59,647 --> 00:09:02,527
The man I inherited it from was not
the real Dread Pirate Roberts either.
131
00:09:02,687 --> 00:09:06,226
The real Roberts has been retired 15 years
and I have been Roberts ever since.
132
00:09:06,326 --> 00:09:08,506
I shall retire and hand the name
over to someone else.
133
00:09:08,606 --> 00:09:11,106
This Dread Pirate Roberts, or DPR,
134
00:09:11,206 --> 00:09:13,466
would come to spearhead
the Silk Road forums
135
00:09:13,567 --> 00:09:16,807
and was generally assumed to be
the creator and owner of the site.
136
00:09:16,927 --> 00:09:18,746
The Dread Pirate Roberts
to me seemed to be
137
00:09:18,846 --> 00:09:21,787
kind of the most interesting figure
in that whole world.
138
00:09:21,886 --> 00:09:25,427
On the Silk Road forums, he was
constantly posting these manifestos
139
00:09:25,527 --> 00:09:30,147
and love letters to his users
and libertarian philosophical treaties.
140
00:09:30,246 --> 00:09:33,567
And he even had like this...
Dread Pirate Roberts book club
141
00:09:33,687 --> 00:09:36,826
where he hosted discussions
of Austrian economics
142
00:09:36,927 --> 00:09:39,287
and free market philosophy.
143
00:09:39,407 --> 00:09:41,407
At the same time, nobody knew who he was.
144
00:09:41,647 --> 00:09:44,006
He had never spoken to the press before.
145
00:09:44,126 --> 00:09:48,006
I approached him on the Silk Road
forum mid-2012 and...
146
00:09:48,126 --> 00:09:51,006
started kind of just like trying
to persuade him to talk,
147
00:09:51,126 --> 00:09:54,807
chipping away at him
and just bugging him constantly.
148
00:09:58,006 --> 00:10:01,086
The actual trigger, I think
that made him decide to talk
149
00:10:01,206 --> 00:10:04,647
was this competing
dark website called "Atlantis."
150
00:10:04,767 --> 00:10:09,366
They were really much more aggressive
in their marketing than the Silk Road.
151
00:10:10,126 --> 00:10:12,027
They put out this YouTube video
152
00:10:12,126 --> 00:10:17,767
advertising Atlantis as the new,
better dark web drug site.
153
00:10:17,886 --> 00:10:20,125
So when I went back
to the Dread Pirate Roberts
154
00:10:20,245 --> 00:10:22,245
and said, "You know,
I'm going to do this story.
155
00:10:22,365 --> 00:10:25,025
It can either be about Atlantis
or it can be about you,"
156
00:10:25,125 --> 00:10:27,546
I think he realized that,
you know, that...
157
00:10:27,645 --> 00:10:31,426
he was a savvy business guy who realized
he had to talk at that point.
158
00:10:31,525 --> 00:10:34,566
He did have a kind of political message
that he wanted to get out,
159
00:10:34,686 --> 00:10:37,125
and I could see that in what
he was posting on the forums.
160
00:10:37,245 --> 00:10:39,365
So I kind of played up to that
and I told him like,
161
00:10:39,485 --> 00:10:43,485
"I can be the vessel for you to talk about
what the Silk Road really represents,"
162
00:10:43,605 --> 00:10:45,125
and I think that that appealed to him.
163
00:10:45,245 --> 00:10:48,365
So it took eight months, but finally
he did agree to an interview.
164
00:10:51,125 --> 00:10:54,105
Of course, he didn't tell me
anything about himself...
165
00:10:54,206 --> 00:10:57,125
where he lives, you know,
his age, identity,
166
00:10:57,245 --> 00:10:59,645
anything that could be
remotely identifying.
167
00:11:02,686 --> 00:11:05,785
"I didn't start the Silk Road.
My predecessor did.
168
00:11:05,885 --> 00:11:09,686
"From what I understand it was
an original idea to combine Bitcoin and Tor
169
00:11:09,806 --> 00:11:12,645
"to create an anonymous market.
Everything was in place.
170
00:11:12,765 --> 00:11:14,405
He just put the pieces together.
171
00:11:14,525 --> 00:11:18,846
"The most I'm willing to reveal is that I am
not the first administrator of Silk Road."
172
00:11:18,966 --> 00:11:21,066
He was incredibly secretive, of course,
173
00:11:21,166 --> 00:11:24,025
about the inner workings
of the Silk Road and...
174
00:11:24,125 --> 00:11:26,105
you know, his own identity, of course.
175
00:11:26,206 --> 00:11:30,086
I mean he was hunted by every law
enforcement agency that you can imagine.
176
00:11:33,286 --> 00:11:35,745
"The management of Silk Road
is a collaborative effort.
177
00:11:35,846 --> 00:11:38,826
"It's not just me making sure
Silk Road runs smoothly.
178
00:11:38,926 --> 00:11:42,786
"More often than not, the best ideas
come from the community itself."
179
00:11:42,885 --> 00:11:45,926
But he did tell me some interesting things
about how he viewed himself and...
180
00:11:46,046 --> 00:11:48,566
and the way that the Silk Road works.
181
00:11:50,645 --> 00:11:54,346
"We don't allow the sale of anything that's
main purpose is to harm innocent people
182
00:11:54,446 --> 00:11:57,385
"or that it was necessary to harm
innocent people to bring to market.
183
00:11:57,485 --> 00:11:59,706
"For example,
anything stolen is forbidden.
184
00:11:59,806 --> 00:12:02,785
"Counterfeit money and coupons
which are used to defraud people.
185
00:12:02,885 --> 00:12:05,706
"Hit men aren't allowed
and neither is child pornography.
186
00:12:05,806 --> 00:12:08,905
No substance on Silk Road
falls under those guidelines."
187
00:12:09,005 --> 00:12:14,245
This went beyond just, you know,
like legalizing marijuana or even heroin.
188
00:12:14,365 --> 00:12:19,186
He wanted to see a new relationship
between individuals and the government,
189
00:12:19,286 --> 00:12:22,806
where the government was...
you know, basically hamstrung
190
00:12:22,926 --> 00:12:25,725
and couldn't control
what people bought and sold.
191
00:12:28,686 --> 00:12:33,066
"At its core, Silk Road is a way
to get around regulation from the state.
192
00:12:33,165 --> 00:12:37,206
"The state tries to control nearly every
aspect of our lives. Not just drug use.
193
00:12:37,485 --> 00:12:41,426
"Anywhere they do that, there's an
opportunity to live your life as you see fit,
194
00:12:41,525 --> 00:12:43,686
despite their efforts."
195
00:12:43,885 --> 00:12:47,485
I shouldn't generally say this kind of thing,
but I really liked the Dread Pirate Roberts
196
00:12:47,605 --> 00:12:50,265
that I interviewed.
I thought he was, you know...
197
00:12:50,365 --> 00:12:54,946
a really super-interesting guy
with a really coherent philosophy.
198
00:12:55,046 --> 00:12:59,206
He came across to me as this kind of
middle-aged, wise man figure, you know?
199
00:12:59,446 --> 00:13:03,485
But not everyone on Silk Road
believed in libertarian philosophy.
200
00:13:03,605 --> 00:13:08,184
Bringing an end to the drug war was
the agenda that truly united the community.
201
00:13:08,284 --> 00:13:11,544
[A huge reason why DPR
put the website up,]
202
00:13:11,644 --> 00:13:14,284
[and allowed the market to begin with,
and took the risk]
203
00:13:14,404 --> 00:13:18,024
[was because... needed to be
a violence reduction]
204
00:13:18,125 --> 00:13:21,445
[in purchasing drugs.
'Cause it's gonna happen]
205
00:13:21,565 --> 00:13:24,125
[and the reason it's gonna happen
is because of the War on Drugs.]
206
00:13:26,404 --> 00:13:30,105
[The violence isn't just from the people
buying and selling the drugs...]
207
00:13:30,205 --> 00:13:32,664
[The violence is from
the police departments...]
208
00:13:32,764 --> 00:13:35,965
[and the federal agents
prosecuting this war.]
209
00:13:36,085 --> 00:13:39,325
[And not to mention the horrendous violence
we commit overseas on people.]
210
00:13:39,684 --> 00:13:42,845
[We're the biggest bully on the planet
when it comes to drugs.]
211
00:13:43,164 --> 00:13:48,304
[The fact that more than 50%
of this country has said to the DEAD...]
212
00:13:48,404 --> 00:13:50,445
[we don't want you
prosecuting this war anymore.]
213
00:13:50,565 --> 00:13:52,424
[They need to demonize drugs.]
214
00:13:52,524 --> 00:13:57,445
[The War on Drugs is, you know,
all about fear, uncertainty and doubt.]
215
00:13:58,445 --> 00:14:02,024
I could see that the Silk Road
wasn't just another cyber-criminal scheme.
216
00:14:02,125 --> 00:14:05,924
This was a guy who saw himself
as the leader of a movement.
217
00:14:06,044 --> 00:14:08,664
"One thing I've learned playing
Dread Pirate Roberts
218
00:14:08,764 --> 00:14:12,664
is that your actions are sure
to please some and infuriate others.
219
00:14:12,764 --> 00:14:16,024
"But we can't stay silent forever.
We have an important message.
220
00:14:16,125 --> 00:14:18,585
"And the time is ripe
for the world to hear it.
221
00:14:18,684 --> 00:14:22,404
"What we're doing isn't about
scoring drugs or sticking it to the man.
222
00:14:22,524 --> 00:14:26,225
"It's about standing up for our rights
as human beings and refusing to submit
223
00:14:26,325 --> 00:14:27,904
"when we've done no wrong.
224
00:14:28,004 --> 00:14:30,504
"Silk Road is a vehicle for that message.
225
00:14:30,605 --> 00:14:33,125
All else is secondary."
226
00:14:33,684 --> 00:14:36,924
The Silk Road functioned because
the Dread Pirate Roberts was trusted.
227
00:14:37,044 --> 00:14:41,184
At any point, he could've shut down the Silk
Road and run away with everyone's Bitcoins.
228
00:14:41,284 --> 00:14:44,424
We've seen that happen
with a bunch of other dark web businesses.
229
00:14:44,524 --> 00:14:47,524
But he didn't, and I think
people believed that he wouldn't
230
00:14:47,644 --> 00:14:51,904
because they felt that he was
a true believer in this kind of radically
231
00:14:52,004 --> 00:14:56,424
libertarian, crypto-anarchic
philosophy that, you know,
232
00:14:56,524 --> 00:14:59,205
goes back to the cypherpunks of the 1990s.
233
00:15:00,245 --> 00:15:04,365
Twenty-five years ago, in the Bay Area,
a burgeoning group of mathematicians,
234
00:15:04,485 --> 00:15:08,284
crypto-anarchists and hackers
began to meet in each other's homes.
235
00:15:08,605 --> 00:15:12,904
This tight-knit group came to be
casually known as the "cypherpunks."
236
00:15:13,004 --> 00:15:15,565
These original members
were not socially motivated,
237
00:15:15,725 --> 00:15:19,065
but more concerned with the hard math
of cryptographic technology
238
00:15:19,164 --> 00:15:23,644
and the broader philosophy of anonymity,
individual liberty and privacy.
239
00:15:23,764 --> 00:15:27,065
The government has this clear policy
of access to all plain text,
240
00:15:27,164 --> 00:15:29,144
meaning whatever you're saying,
they want access to.
241
00:15:29,245 --> 00:15:31,424
If it's stored on your hard disk,
they want access to it.
242
00:15:31,524 --> 00:15:33,565
If it so goes over the wire,
they want access to it.
243
00:15:33,684 --> 00:15:37,164
If you are proxying speech for someone
else, they wanna know who it is.
244
00:15:37,644 --> 00:15:40,325
The cypherpunks were instrumental
in the growing movement
245
00:15:40,445 --> 00:15:43,144
towards privacy and anonymity online.
246
00:15:43,245 --> 00:15:47,304
And they would pioneer the way
into the hidden corners of the Internet.
247
00:15:47,404 --> 00:15:49,924
Maybe the big turning point
for the cypherpunks,
248
00:15:50,044 --> 00:15:52,744
I think, was WikiLeaks and Julian Assange
249
00:15:52,844 --> 00:15:56,024
and Jacob Appelbaum's idea
of what it means to be a cypherpunk.
250
00:15:56,124 --> 00:15:58,104
You cannot trust a government
251
00:15:58,203 --> 00:16:00,903
to implement the policies
that it says that it's implementing.
252
00:16:01,004 --> 00:16:04,443
And so we must provide
the underlying tools,
253
00:16:04,563 --> 00:16:07,303
secret cryptographic codes
that the government couldn't spy on
254
00:16:07,403 --> 00:16:10,783
to everyone as a sort of use of force.
255
00:16:10,884 --> 00:16:16,163
And a government no matter how hard
it tries, if the cyphers are good,
256
00:16:16,283 --> 00:16:19,004
cannot break into
your communications directly.
257
00:16:19,124 --> 00:16:21,543
Force of authority
is derived from violence.
258
00:16:21,644 --> 00:16:24,463
One must acknowledge with cryptography,
no amount of violence
259
00:16:24,563 --> 00:16:26,323
- will ever solve a math problem.
- Exactly.
260
00:16:26,443 --> 00:16:29,104
And this is the important key.
It doesn't mean you can't be tortured.
261
00:16:29,203 --> 00:16:32,063
It doesn't mean they can't try to bug
your house or subvert it in some way,
262
00:16:32,163 --> 00:16:34,783
but it means if they find an encrypted
message it doesn't matter if they have
263
00:16:34,884 --> 00:16:37,224
the force of the authority
behind everything that they do.
264
00:16:37,323 --> 00:16:38,864
They cannot solve that math problem.
265
00:16:38,963 --> 00:16:42,524
This movement is not about
the destruction of law.
266
00:16:42,644 --> 00:16:46,463
This movement is not about
the destruction of law.
267
00:16:46,563 --> 00:16:49,244
It is about the construction of law.
268
00:16:49,364 --> 00:16:53,403
These are guys who want to create
encryption tools that everybody can use.
269
00:16:53,524 --> 00:16:54,903
It's not just for the elite.
270
00:16:55,004 --> 00:16:58,084
It's trying to shift the way
that the Internet works
271
00:16:58,203 --> 00:17:01,884
to provide secrecy and anonymity
and privacy to everyone...
272
00:17:02,004 --> 00:17:05,284
you know, so like...
it's a much more populist movement.
273
00:17:05,683 --> 00:17:10,243
There is a community of people
in the security and cryptography space
274
00:17:10,364 --> 00:17:14,364
who want to live in a world where
the government cannot record their emails,
275
00:17:14,483 --> 00:17:18,483
cannot listen to their telephone calls,
cannot see who they're spending time with.
276
00:17:18,604 --> 00:17:20,584
And they're trying to build tools.
277
00:17:20,683 --> 00:17:23,144
They're trying to build
protocols and services
278
00:17:23,243 --> 00:17:27,243
that can facilitate that kind of anonymous
and private exchange of information.
279
00:17:27,364 --> 00:17:31,163
I actually think this all comes down
to wanting to live a free life.
280
00:17:31,284 --> 00:17:34,943
And the recognition which
really predates all technology,
281
00:17:35,044 --> 00:17:37,983
that an observed life
is not a completely free life,
282
00:17:38,084 --> 00:17:41,463
that a zone of privacy
is just a core human value.
283
00:17:41,564 --> 00:17:46,284
And the technology
to me is just an incarnation
284
00:17:46,523 --> 00:17:48,644
of those basic human values.
285
00:17:48,763 --> 00:17:51,743
And I think that the people
who are trying to build
286
00:17:51,844 --> 00:17:54,564
currencies that are free of tracking
and government control
287
00:17:54,683 --> 00:17:57,463
and technologies that let you
have a private conversation
288
00:17:57,564 --> 00:18:01,824
and those kinds of things
are just people who are seeing
289
00:18:01,923 --> 00:18:06,903
that the technology can both enable
and disable that space.
290
00:18:07,003 --> 00:18:09,844
There are more cypherpunks
than ever before.
291
00:18:10,203 --> 00:18:14,463
They want to entirely cripple
the government's ability to enforce law.
292
00:18:14,564 --> 00:18:20,104
They want cryptography to make the rules
instead of law enforcement.
293
00:18:20,203 --> 00:18:24,443
Cody Wilson is a crypto-anarchist
best known for developing the Liberator,
294
00:18:24,564 --> 00:18:29,544
a 3D printable gun that was downloaded
100,000 times in two days.
295
00:18:29,644 --> 00:18:32,584
When a group of baby boomers are told,
okay now 3D printers will print guns,
296
00:18:32,683 --> 00:18:36,683
they can do nothing but say, "Well, it's been
nice living in the world I used to know."
297
00:18:36,804 --> 00:18:40,802
We want to question the very foundation,
evacuate the very foundation
298
00:18:40,923 --> 00:18:46,282
that this order, moral,
ethical, political, is founded on.
299
00:18:47,002 --> 00:18:50,522
To see beyond good and evil
and to allow something else to happen.
300
00:18:50,923 --> 00:18:53,383
This is where the figure of DPR
is so interesting to me.
301
00:18:53,482 --> 00:18:56,423
Like is he a liberal?
Like is he a Misesian like he says he is?
302
00:18:56,522 --> 00:18:58,502
He believes in libertarian
market principles,
303
00:18:58,603 --> 00:19:01,502
and you know man against the state
and all these these principles of freedom
304
00:19:01,603 --> 00:19:04,542
and axioms of... or is he someone else?
305
00:19:04,643 --> 00:19:08,022
Like who I hope he is or someone
like I would try to hope to be,
306
00:19:08,123 --> 00:19:10,742
who's just looking for a way, a mechanism,
307
00:19:10,843 --> 00:19:13,702
to help peek beyond
good and evil a little bit. And...
308
00:19:13,803 --> 00:19:18,502
is he more enthusiastic about what he's...
what he's allowed to be opened up,
309
00:19:18,603 --> 00:19:20,423
the doors he's opening.
310
00:19:20,522 --> 00:19:23,702
Of course, there will be
a dark side to the dark web.
311
00:19:23,803 --> 00:19:27,423
And if we want to enable this...
this true crypto-anarchic future,
312
00:19:27,522 --> 00:19:30,782
anyone who's working on that, I think,
has to reckon with the fact that...
313
00:19:30,883 --> 00:19:33,863
they're going to be enabling
really nasty things
314
00:19:33,962 --> 00:19:38,522
along with this kind of information freedom
revolution that they're taking part in.
315
00:19:39,083 --> 00:19:42,583
By August 2012, business was booming.
316
00:19:42,682 --> 00:19:47,323
The Silk Road had become a thriving,
anonymous and unregulated black market.
317
00:19:47,442 --> 00:19:51,323
The Internet being used in this way,
posed a major threat to the government,
318
00:19:51,442 --> 00:19:53,482
greater perhaps than selling drugs.
319
00:19:53,603 --> 00:19:56,522
Even as a law enforcement officer,
I still wouldn't know
320
00:19:56,643 --> 00:20:00,982
where to go and buy crack
on the streets or buy heroin,
321
00:20:01,083 --> 00:20:03,143
but I do know how
to go online and find it.
322
00:20:03,242 --> 00:20:06,083
It's downloading some software
and the next thing you know you're there
323
00:20:06,202 --> 00:20:09,923
and you can purchase a service
or drugs very easily.
324
00:20:10,722 --> 00:20:14,462
Since when does a teenager become
obsessed with the daily mail delivery?
325
00:20:14,563 --> 00:20:17,982
Fidgeting and pacing made
this Fisher's mom suspicious.
326
00:20:18,083 --> 00:20:22,823
So when her family's mail arrived,
she grabbed it and found a cartoon DVD box
327
00:20:22,923 --> 00:20:27,363
addressed to her son with something extra,
a package of white crystals.
328
00:20:27,482 --> 00:20:31,803
So she confronted her 14-year-old
and both their lives changed forever.
329
00:20:32,123 --> 00:20:34,823
I don't think anybody really cared
in law enforcement
330
00:20:34,923 --> 00:20:37,542
until Senator Schumer went, "Oh, my God,
we've gotta do something about this."
331
00:20:37,643 --> 00:20:40,323
Today I'm calling on the DEA
and the Department of Justice
332
00:20:40,442 --> 00:20:44,002
to immediately shut this site down
before more damage is done.
333
00:20:44,123 --> 00:20:46,923
Because if you think about what
law enforcement at the federal level
334
00:20:47,042 --> 00:20:49,143
has to do to even start a case,
335
00:20:49,242 --> 00:20:52,643
I don't think this case would've been started
if it wasn't for some political impetus
336
00:20:52,762 --> 00:20:55,643
by, you know, a senator saying,
"We need to look into this."
337
00:20:55,762 --> 00:21:00,262
The FBI today shut down what it's calling
the most sophisticated Internet site
338
00:21:00,363 --> 00:21:04,843
in the business of selling hard drugs,
including heroin, cocaine and LSD.
339
00:21:05,282 --> 00:21:08,702
Anyone trying to log on to the website
today found this notice:
340
00:21:08,803 --> 00:21:10,363
"Shut down by the FBI."
341
00:21:10,482 --> 00:21:13,222
It was a sophisticated
electronic smokescreen
342
00:21:13,323 --> 00:21:16,022
and it took federal agents
almost two years.
343
00:21:16,123 --> 00:21:19,482
They were able to infiltrate the site,
but they made some of these purchases
344
00:21:19,603 --> 00:21:21,722
themselves using undercover identities.
345
00:21:21,843 --> 00:21:26,821
The secretive Dread Pirate Roberts was
arrested in the most unlikely of places...
346
00:21:26,922 --> 00:21:30,241
this local public library
in this San Francisco neighborhood.
347
00:21:30,362 --> 00:21:33,942
The FBI seized $3.6 million
348
00:21:34,041 --> 00:21:38,402
of Bitcoin's biggest haul
in its five-year history.
349
00:21:51,721 --> 00:21:54,781
When the criminal complaint
first appeared in October,
350
00:21:54,882 --> 00:21:58,082
it describes this 29-year-old
kid named Ross Ulbricht.
351
00:22:00,321 --> 00:22:04,541
Not only do they say that he has run this
billion-dollar plus black market conspiracy
352
00:22:04,642 --> 00:22:07,541
and they accuse him of drug trafficking
and money laundering
353
00:22:07,642 --> 00:22:09,922
and somehow computer
hacking charges, as well,
354
00:22:10,041 --> 00:22:13,882
which is something that I had never
associated with the Silk Road.
355
00:22:14,521 --> 00:22:18,402
But then also in this criminal
complaint there is outlined
356
00:22:18,521 --> 00:22:20,821
his plot to pay for the murders
357
00:22:20,922 --> 00:22:24,182
of a potential informant
and a blackmailer.
358
00:22:24,281 --> 00:22:26,521
It seems at least one Silk Road user
359
00:22:26,642 --> 00:22:29,541
threatened to reveal the identities
of thousands of others.
360
00:22:29,642 --> 00:22:34,882
So investigators say Ulbricht tried to
execute a Murder-For-Hire on that user,
361
00:22:35,001 --> 00:22:39,801
offering $150,000
to a would-be hit man because...
362
00:22:39,922 --> 00:22:42,662
"This kind of behavior
is unforgivable to me.
363
00:22:42,761 --> 00:22:47,041
Especially here on Silk Road,
anonymity is sacrosant.
364
00:22:47,162 --> 00:22:49,021
It threw me for a loop. It was really not
365
00:22:49,122 --> 00:22:51,582
the Dread Pirate Roberts
that I had ever imagined.
366
00:22:51,682 --> 00:22:54,442
This connection between Ross Ulbricht,
367
00:22:54,561 --> 00:22:57,822
who plenty of evidence suggests
that he was involved in the Silk Road.
368
00:22:57,922 --> 00:23:01,122
They, after all, seized his laptop
while he was logged in to the Silk Road.
369
00:23:01,241 --> 00:23:02,682
He was caught red-handed.
370
00:23:02,801 --> 00:23:05,602
But these two personalities,
these two personas,
371
00:23:05,721 --> 00:23:08,582
do seem to be almost schizophrenic.
372
00:23:08,682 --> 00:23:12,021
It's so difficult to imagine
that they are the same person.
373
00:23:12,122 --> 00:23:16,321
And so the FBI's whole case
is based on the idea if they can show
374
00:23:16,442 --> 00:23:18,362
that Dread Pirate Roberts
is Ross Ulbricht?
375
00:23:18,481 --> 00:23:20,582
Right. That's the most
important part, right?
376
00:23:20,682 --> 00:23:23,781
Because he was trying to hide
his identity on the site as well.
377
00:23:23,882 --> 00:23:26,942
So the first thing they're gonna
have to do is definitively link him
378
00:23:27,041 --> 00:23:29,521
as the person who runs the site.
379
00:23:34,001 --> 00:23:36,541
Oh, man, it was like
it was yesterday, actually.
380
00:23:36,642 --> 00:23:41,241
I was on my computer and...
I was on Facebook.
381
00:23:41,362 --> 00:23:45,882
And there's this guy that I know
and he's very into like Bitcoin
382
00:23:46,001 --> 00:23:47,961
and cryptocurrencies and stuff like that.
383
00:23:48,082 --> 00:23:52,382
He posted this article and it says,
"Ross Ulbricht Arrested."
384
00:23:52,481 --> 00:23:55,701
And I pull up Lyn's...
G-chat and I'm like,
385
00:23:55,801 --> 00:23:59,741
"What is going on? Like why is..."
And I'm looking at Ross' page...
386
00:23:59,842 --> 00:24:03,221
Picture, you know, about being arrested.
What is this?
387
00:24:03,321 --> 00:24:06,261
She says, "We don't even know.
We're leaving Costa Rica right now."
388
00:24:06,362 --> 00:24:09,621
I mean, they were on their way,
but it blew my mind.
389
00:24:09,721 --> 00:24:11,921
I mean totally blew my mind.
390
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:19,141
Ross William Ulbricht grew up
in a suburb of Austin,
391
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,381
the only son of Kirk and Lyn
with an older sister named Callie.
392
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,580
It's a loving, tight-knit,
middle-class family.
393
00:24:26,681 --> 00:24:29,240
The Ulbrichts earn their income
from properties they built
394
00:24:29,361 --> 00:24:32,320
and rent on the Costa Rican coast.
395
00:24:32,441 --> 00:24:36,161
Ross was an avid outdoorsman,
an Eagle Scout like his father,
396
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,040
and displayed an early aptitude for math.
397
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,881
Ross earned a full scholarship
to the University of Texas at Dallas
398
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,820
studying Physics.
399
00:24:44,921 --> 00:24:49,441
He graduated in 2006 and then won
another full scholarship to Penn State
400
00:24:49,641 --> 00:24:53,401
to pursue a Masters
in Material Science and Engineering.
401
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,401
It was at Penn State that Ross began
a deep interest in libertarianism,
402
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:02,080
particularly the work of Ludwig Von Mises
and the Austrian School of Economics.
403
00:25:02,201 --> 00:25:05,340
Yet by 2009, having completed his Masters,
404
00:25:05,441 --> 00:25:07,721
Ross seemed to be having
a change of life plan
405
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,320
telling his mother he no longer had an
interest in pursuing a career in science
406
00:25:12,441 --> 00:25:15,221
and instead wanted to become
an entrepreneur.
407
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,780
Ross moved back to Austin and opened
his own used book company, Good Wagon,
408
00:25:19,881 --> 00:25:23,221
donating a portion of the proceeds
to an inner city youth program
409
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,560
and to a prison literacy project.
410
00:25:25,721 --> 00:25:29,980
I remember him saying, when we had coffee,
the last time we saw each other,
411
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,681
I remember him saying that he wished
he had joined a fraternity in college.
412
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,641
And I remember saying,
"Well, that's surprising."
413
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,161
You know, I didn't really understand
that perspective,
414
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,580
and I just remember him thinking,
415
00:25:42,681 --> 00:25:46,300
well, he focused a lot
on his studies in school
416
00:25:46,401 --> 00:25:49,580
and maybe didn't create the social network
417
00:25:49,681 --> 00:25:52,980
that he was looking for...
in... in school.
418
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,560
But as far as where we saw each other
going or where we saw ourselves going...
419
00:25:59,441 --> 00:26:03,381
I think we both had a strong desire
420
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,040
to be in control of our destiny.
421
00:26:06,161 --> 00:26:09,941
You know, again like when he started
the book company, totally natural.
422
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,201
Not even something that I would've
questioned, where there are a lot of people
423
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,201
that would never start their own business.
But for Ross, sure, you know, why not?
424
00:26:17,401 --> 00:26:21,020
But the business floundered
and Ross eventually shut it down.
425
00:26:21,121 --> 00:26:24,101
And if a post on his Linkedln page
was any indication,
426
00:26:24,201 --> 00:26:28,381
Ross had experienced a kind of epiphany
on the next way forward.
427
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,361
Ulbricht wrote,
"Now my goals have shifted.
428
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,000
"I want to use economic theory as a means
to abolish the use of coercion
429
00:26:35,121 --> 00:26:37,300
"and aggression amongst mankind.
430
00:26:37,401 --> 00:26:40,340
"To that end, I am creating
an economic simulation
431
00:26:40,441 --> 00:26:42,681
"to give people a first-hand experience
432
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,601
"of what it would be like to live in a world
without the systemic use of force."
433
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,181
From this moment, in late 2010,
Ross became something of a free spirit,
434
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,540
eventually leaving
his parents' home in Austin
435
00:26:53,641 --> 00:26:56,220
to live with his sister Callie
in Sydney, Australia
436
00:26:56,319 --> 00:26:58,460
and then returning briefly to Austin.
437
00:26:58,559 --> 00:27:01,019
Throughout this period,
as far as his family knew,
438
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,940
Ross' means of employment was working
on freelance projects in computer finance.
439
00:27:06,039 --> 00:27:09,140
I am Rene Pinnell, age 29.
440
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,859
Today is December 6, 2012
441
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,700
and we are in the Jewish
Contemporary Art Museum...
442
00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:21,160
and relationship to partner
is best friend.
443
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,200
So, Ross, how did you come
to live in San Francisco?
444
00:27:25,839 --> 00:27:28,859
You twisted my arm until I said,
445
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,480
"Fine, I'll come."
446
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,500
I get a phone call from Rene,
"Ross, call me up.
447
00:27:34,599 --> 00:27:37,140
I've got an opportunity for you."
I'm like, "Okay."
448
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,380
He's like, "Yeah, I'm doing
a startup here in San Francisco.
449
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,740
I want you to be a part of it."
450
00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:45,259
The more I thought about it,
and the more he...
451
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,119
laid out the pros and cons...
452
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,240
the more it all just seemed like cosmic
and the right thing to do.
453
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,779
So... yeah.
454
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,920
I bought my ticket and two weeks later
I showed up at his doorstep.
455
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,900
As Ross Ulbricht was making his way
from Australia to Austin,
456
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,579
and eventually to San Francisco,
457
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,380
the Silk Road was online
and growing steadily.
458
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,319
So naturally it sparked the attention
of federal law enforcement
459
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,960
and specifically the wing of the DHS
called Homeland Security Investigations,
460
00:28:16,079 --> 00:28:19,539
housed in the old Customs House
in Baltimore, Maryland.
461
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,599
You have postal inspectors in Seattle
and Customs and Border Protection...
462
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,140
intercepting mail shipments coming
from overseas full of drugs,
463
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,339
full of... full of currency.
464
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,480
And one thing that happens is
they all lead back to the Silk Road.
465
00:28:35,039 --> 00:28:38,839
And you have a number
of independent investigations
466
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,079
sort of cropping up
around the same timeframe
467
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,799
following different leads,
but all leading back to the same place.
468
00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:49,720
At the same time, the New York
Cyber-Crime Division of the FBI
469
00:28:49,839 --> 00:28:53,559
began their own investigation,
headed by Agent Chris Tarbell.
470
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,660
There were people essentially online 24/7
471
00:28:56,759 --> 00:28:59,920
as part of the team
that was monitoring, gathering,
472
00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:01,920
even just the little bits of evidence.
473
00:29:02,039 --> 00:29:03,799
Informants were activated.
474
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,319
The site was crawling with law enforcement
posing as vendors and buyers
475
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,720
from the very beginning
of Silk Road's existence.
476
00:29:10,839 --> 00:29:16,880
In early 2012, HSI partnered with Tarbell's
FBI investigators as well as the DEA
477
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,180
to mount an undercover operation called
"Marco Polo"
478
00:29:20,279 --> 00:29:24,099
with the intention of penetrating
the inner sanctum of the Silk Road.
479
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,599
[I had a package seized from China in
January 2012 and thought nothing of it.]
480
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,900
[I kept business as usual,
which was a stupid move.]
481
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,259
[Fast forward to June 28th, 2012]
482
00:29:34,359 --> 00:29:39,039
[I was raided by ATF, DEA,
Secret Service, local police department]
483
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,038
[and even a postal inspector.]
484
00:29:41,159 --> 00:29:42,298
[I was not detained.]
485
00:29:42,398 --> 00:29:47,239
[Rather, I was held in a van outside
for what they call "investigative detention."]
486
00:29:47,358 --> 00:29:49,878
[They kept me out of jail.
I was never booked or charged]
487
00:29:49,999 --> 00:29:53,838
[because my seized computers were more
useful to them if I was not behind bars.]
488
00:29:53,959 --> 00:29:56,398
[I'm also assuming they did this
with a number of Silk Road vendors]
489
00:29:56,519 --> 00:29:59,338
[to get a sort of organized crime
ring of their own.]
490
00:29:59,439 --> 00:30:01,179
The operation gained traction
491
00:30:01,278 --> 00:30:04,138
when an undercover agent
using the vendor name of "nob"
492
00:30:04,239 --> 00:30:08,818
was allegedly able to establish direct
communication with the Dread Pirate Roberts,
493
00:30:08,919 --> 00:30:11,298
which would lead
to a shocking turn of events.
494
00:30:11,398 --> 00:30:16,439
Nob complained to DPR about the small-fry
nature of most deals on the Silk Road.
495
00:30:16,558 --> 00:30:20,318
"It really isn't worth it
to do below 10 kilos," the agent wrote.
496
00:30:20,439 --> 00:30:22,979
DPR offered to help find a buyer for nob
497
00:30:23,078 --> 00:30:27,259
and allegedly turned to one of his most
trusted partners known only as "chronicpain"
498
00:30:27,358 --> 00:30:28,898
to put the deal together.
499
00:30:28,999 --> 00:30:31,318
Chronicpain had been one
of the core administrators
500
00:30:31,439 --> 00:30:32,919
of the Silk Road from the beginning,
501
00:30:33,038 --> 00:30:36,338
a frequent contributor to the forums
who shared the Silk Road vision
502
00:30:36,439 --> 00:30:40,679
for reducing harm in the drug trade,
but these halcyon days were about to end.
503
00:30:41,159 --> 00:30:43,298
In order to facilitate this drug deal,
504
00:30:43,398 --> 00:30:46,739
chronicpain gave the informant
his home address.
505
00:30:46,838 --> 00:30:51,058
Federal agents immediately apprehended
chronicpain at his Salt Lake City home
506
00:30:51,159 --> 00:30:54,959
and were surprised to discover
that this 47-year-old family man
507
00:30:55,078 --> 00:30:58,659
named Curtis Clark Green
was a dark net criminal.
508
00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:00,318
At some point they're going
to catch one of those people.
509
00:31:00,439 --> 00:31:02,078
And what do you do in a typical drug case?
510
00:31:02,199 --> 00:31:04,598
You roll that person over
as a cooperating witness.
511
00:31:04,719 --> 00:31:07,778
And in this case, one of them
they got really lucky
512
00:31:07,878 --> 00:31:09,939
and he was an administrator on the system.
513
00:31:10,038 --> 00:31:14,259
Green had access to other Silk Road
users' accounts and financial records,
514
00:31:14,358 --> 00:31:16,098
including Dread Pirate Roberts.
515
00:31:16,199 --> 00:31:20,659
"I have to assume he will sing,"
DPR wrote to nob, the undercover agent.
516
00:31:20,759 --> 00:31:24,439
"I'd like him beat up."
Then, the next day, he allegedly wrote...
517
00:31:24,558 --> 00:31:27,798
"Can you change the order
to execute rather than torture?"
518
00:31:27,919 --> 00:31:32,739
A murder was staged. And a photograph
of Green's bloody body was sent to DPR,
519
00:31:32,838 --> 00:31:35,219
who paid for the hit in Bitcoin.
520
00:31:35,318 --> 00:31:37,919
There would be five more alleged
Murders-For-Hire,
521
00:31:38,038 --> 00:31:41,298
including ordered hits against
a blackmailer, a scammer
522
00:31:41,398 --> 00:31:44,318
and an apparent contract
with the Hells Angels.
523
00:31:44,439 --> 00:31:47,798
The names of two of these victims
were found to be fictitious.
524
00:31:47,919 --> 00:31:51,618
And authorities have no evidence
of any murders being carried out.
525
00:31:51,719 --> 00:31:54,739
The alleged attempted murder
of Curtis Green allowed the authorities
526
00:31:54,838 --> 00:31:57,778
to obtain an indictment
against Dread Pirate Roberts,
527
00:31:57,878 --> 00:32:02,578
charging him with drug offenses,
attempted witness murder and Murder-For-Hire.
528
00:32:02,679 --> 00:32:06,999
Of course, they still had no idea
who the Dread Pirate Roberts actually was.
529
00:32:07,118 --> 00:32:09,919
So the embedded agents
continued to communicate with DPR,
530
00:32:10,038 --> 00:32:12,679
and DPR continued to respond.
531
00:32:14,638 --> 00:32:19,638
In June of 2013, Ross moved into an
apartment that he found on Craigslist.
532
00:32:19,759 --> 00:32:24,578
Allegedly, he did not give his roommates his
real name and was known as Joshua Terrey.
533
00:32:24,679 --> 00:32:29,478
At the same time, IRS agent Gary Alford
was investigating the Silk Road
534
00:32:29,597 --> 00:32:33,057
and through a simple Google search
was able to locate an early email
535
00:32:33,157 --> 00:32:37,137
on the open Internet discussing
the launch of the Silk Road marketplace
536
00:32:37,238 --> 00:32:41,778
and connect that email to an account
owned by Ross Ulbricht.
537
00:32:41,877 --> 00:32:44,718
One month later, postal inspectors
at the Canadian border
538
00:32:44,837 --> 00:32:48,238
seized a package of fake IDs
with Ross' image
539
00:32:48,357 --> 00:32:50,877
that were en route to his home address.
540
00:32:52,157 --> 00:32:56,438
Ross was visited at his apartment
by several DHS agents.
541
00:32:56,557 --> 00:32:59,417
The agents handed Ross
a false California driver's license
542
00:32:59,518 --> 00:33:01,857
that bore his picture,
but a different name.
543
00:33:01,958 --> 00:33:05,278
Ulbricht denied ownership
or knowledge of the fake IDs,
544
00:33:05,397 --> 00:33:07,998
and the agents simply left.
545
00:33:08,758 --> 00:33:11,938
If you suspect somebody
may be involved in a...
546
00:33:12,038 --> 00:33:13,778
large-scale criminal enterprise,
547
00:33:13,877 --> 00:33:16,337
going and knocking on a door
with some... you know,
548
00:33:16,438 --> 00:33:19,837
some evidence of fake IDs is important...
549
00:33:19,958 --> 00:33:22,778
because you can see the guy face-to-face.
550
00:33:22,877 --> 00:33:25,817
You may get some useful information
out of an interview.
551
00:33:25,917 --> 00:33:28,317
You may or may not want to take him
into custody on the spot.
552
00:33:28,438 --> 00:33:31,698
Let's sit back and let's...
let's really go after this
553
00:33:31,798 --> 00:33:35,617
in a you know, much more
global way, if you will,
554
00:33:35,718 --> 00:33:38,897
because there's a lot more
here than just one count of,
555
00:33:38,998 --> 00:33:40,657
you know, fake IDs.
556
00:33:40,758 --> 00:33:42,278
The next big break in the case
557
00:33:42,397 --> 00:33:46,198
would be achieved by FBI agent Tarbell
and his cyber-crime team,
558
00:33:46,317 --> 00:33:50,357
who had somehow located the Silk Road
servers in Germany and Iceland.
559
00:33:50,478 --> 00:33:53,978
How these hidden servers were found
has been a matter of controversy,
560
00:33:54,077 --> 00:33:57,538
but the FBI had their own copy
of the Silk Road server,
561
00:33:57,637 --> 00:34:01,498
and now they hoped to finally unmask
the Dread Pirate Roberts.
562
00:34:01,597 --> 00:34:04,038
[I decided there was a flaw
in this setup somewhere,]
563
00:34:04,157 --> 00:34:06,198
[I couldn't quite put my finger on it.]
564
00:34:06,317 --> 00:34:09,418
[But there was a flaw and I called up
my partner and said:]
565
00:34:09,518 --> 00:34:11,538
["There's a flaw, we've got
a limited amount of time,]
566
00:34:11,637 --> 00:34:13,757
[We need to make our money and get out.]
567
00:34:14,117 --> 00:34:17,958
Over the course of a year,
a Chicago-based agent from the DHS
568
00:34:18,077 --> 00:34:21,378
named Jared Der-Yeghiayan
had been embedded in the Silk Road,
569
00:34:21,478 --> 00:34:25,237
now posing as a high-ranking
moderator named "cirrus."
570
00:34:25,358 --> 00:34:28,597
With both the evidence connecting Ross
to the launch of the Silk Road
571
00:34:28,717 --> 00:34:34,077
and the incident with the fake IDs,
Ross became one of the primary suspects.
572
00:34:34,398 --> 00:34:38,858
On October 1st in a coordinated effort
between Der-Yeghiayan from the DHS
573
00:34:38,958 --> 00:34:42,818
and Tarbell's FBI squad,
a sting operation was launched.
574
00:34:42,918 --> 00:34:47,418
According to Der-Yeghiayan's testimony,
he staked out Ross' new residence.
575
00:34:47,518 --> 00:34:49,538
And using his pseudonym of cirrus,
576
00:34:49,637 --> 00:34:53,757
Der-Yeghiayan initiated a conversation
on the Silk Road with DPR.
577
00:34:53,878 --> 00:34:56,918
Moments later,
Ross went to the Glen Park Library,
578
00:34:57,038 --> 00:34:58,898
apparently to use their Wi-Fi.
579
00:34:58,998 --> 00:35:02,978
And when Der-Yeghiayan saw that DPR
was logged back into the Silk Road,
580
00:35:03,077 --> 00:35:06,297
he gave the order for Tarbell
and his squad to move in.
581
00:35:06,398 --> 00:35:09,117
It's an excitement that you
couldn't even buy off Silk Road.
582
00:35:09,237 --> 00:35:11,677
All the drugs you could buy
on the site, you...
583
00:35:11,797 --> 00:35:15,356
It's not the same excitement as catching
the guy. It's an adrenaline rush.
584
00:35:15,836 --> 00:35:18,817
Ross was apprehended
before he could encrypt his laptop.
585
00:35:18,916 --> 00:35:21,817
He was allegedly logged into
a Silk Road administration panel
586
00:35:21,916 --> 00:35:24,896
for customers needing DPR's attention.
587
00:35:24,996 --> 00:35:29,277
He was a dream for drug users,
because he was very technically adept
588
00:35:29,396 --> 00:35:34,237
and he was able to hide both
the website that he put together
589
00:35:34,356 --> 00:35:37,817
and the actual sales of illegal drugs
590
00:35:37,916 --> 00:35:41,677
that the drug sellers
would... make on his website.
591
00:35:41,956 --> 00:35:45,077
The Silk Road was seized and shut down,
and charges were announced
592
00:35:45,197 --> 00:35:48,396
against a number of core partners
and vendors from the site.
593
00:35:48,757 --> 00:35:51,516
Ross was held for over a month
in a jail in Oakland,
594
00:35:51,637 --> 00:35:53,556
awaiting extradition to New York.
595
00:35:54,036 --> 00:35:57,717
Ross's family was able to raise
over a million dollars for his bail.
596
00:35:57,916 --> 00:36:01,976
But the prosecution argued that due
to the alleged Murders-For-Hire,
597
00:36:02,077 --> 00:36:06,356
Ross was too dangerous to release
and so his bail was denied.
598
00:36:06,476 --> 00:36:08,016
I thought it was the wrong decision.
599
00:36:08,117 --> 00:36:10,336
He wouldn't have been a flight risk
and he's never been
600
00:36:10,436 --> 00:36:12,257
and is not a danger to anyone.
601
00:36:12,356 --> 00:36:18,317
[For him to say "I'm gonna put a hit out
on someone" is ludicrous.]
602
00:36:18,436 --> 00:36:23,077
[I can understand it being one
of these other DPR workers...]
603
00:36:23,637 --> 00:36:27,737
[getting all egotistical
and crazy and maniacal]
604
00:36:27,836 --> 00:36:31,237
[and doing it, that I could see.]
605
00:36:31,356 --> 00:36:34,856
There was more than one person
using the DPR account?
606
00:36:34,956 --> 00:36:41,697
[I believe it was at least 2 other people,
if not 3 at one point.]
607
00:36:41,797 --> 00:36:47,516
[It doesn't matter.
That's why they're dredging up this hit.]
608
00:36:48,396 --> 00:36:51,077
[Contract baloney.]
609
00:36:51,197 --> 00:36:54,956
[But because of the involvement
of a Senator and...]
610
00:36:55,916 --> 00:36:58,197
[all that other shit
they're gonna cook him.]
611
00:36:58,836 --> 00:37:03,157
The data seized from the Silk Road servers
included all internal private messages,
612
00:37:03,277 --> 00:37:06,797
which revealed that many people
collectively ran the site.
613
00:37:07,157 --> 00:37:09,376
One vendor with the user name
"Variety Jones"
614
00:37:09,476 --> 00:37:12,177
was active from the beginning
of the Silk Road.
615
00:37:12,277 --> 00:37:15,036
Jones gave many of the orders
for running the Silk Road,
616
00:37:15,157 --> 00:37:20,677
even instructing the systems administrator
to create the Dread Pirate Roberts persona.
617
00:37:20,996 --> 00:37:25,637
But Ross Ulbricht remained
the primary focus of the investigation.
618
00:37:25,996 --> 00:37:28,436
Ross has been incarcerated for over a year
619
00:37:28,556 --> 00:37:32,157
in the Metropolitan Detention Center
in Brooklyn awaiting trial.
620
00:37:32,277 --> 00:37:35,556
Six weeks of that time
was in solitary confinement.
621
00:37:35,677 --> 00:37:39,757
Ross plead not guilty and denies
being the Dread Pirate Roberts.
622
00:37:39,876 --> 00:37:44,416
His trial was set for November 10,
2014 in New York City.
623
00:37:44,516 --> 00:37:48,416
If convicted, Ross faces
a minimum sentence of 30 years
624
00:37:48,516 --> 00:37:52,197
with a maximum sentence of life in prison.
625
00:37:52,356 --> 00:37:54,556
Are you taking a video?
626
00:37:55,036 --> 00:37:57,597
- Should we...
- He's a hairy fucker.
627
00:37:57,717 --> 00:38:00,416
These big guys are generally not too...
628
00:38:00,516 --> 00:38:02,956
I would let him off somewhere.
629
00:38:03,076 --> 00:38:04,056
Where is he?
630
00:38:04,155 --> 00:38:06,876
You know, it's hard.
It's hard on a family.
631
00:38:06,996 --> 00:38:09,755
It really is, especially when
you love that person so much
632
00:38:09,876 --> 00:38:11,456
and you believe in them so much
633
00:38:11,556 --> 00:38:14,876
and you have such a daunting
Goliath of an opponent.
634
00:38:14,996 --> 00:38:17,396
It's... challenging.
635
00:38:17,556 --> 00:38:20,735
It's kind of like a death, in a way,
when you go like, "No, that can't be true,"
636
00:38:20,835 --> 00:38:22,715
and then you're like,
"Oh, yeah, it's true."
637
00:38:22,835 --> 00:38:25,056
And you go through that kind of shock.
638
00:38:25,155 --> 00:38:26,835
His dad, my husband...
639
00:38:26,996 --> 00:38:29,815
of course, he's trying to keep our business
going so we have a livelihood.
640
00:38:29,916 --> 00:38:32,815
And his sister is in... Australia
641
00:38:32,916 --> 00:38:34,735
and she's been helping, too, from there.
642
00:38:34,835 --> 00:38:36,476
I'm Ross' sister and I can tell you
643
00:38:36,596 --> 00:38:39,795
he has been a man of his word
and honor all his life.
644
00:38:39,916 --> 00:38:43,956
I was shocked to hear the news of his
arrest, but felt even more dismayed
645
00:38:44,076 --> 00:38:47,755
at what the media was writing
about him, not even knowing him.
646
00:38:49,315 --> 00:38:52,996
You know, I read things by people
who have not a clue who Ross really is.
647
00:38:55,275 --> 00:38:58,655
He's been tried and convicted
in the media.
648
00:38:58,755 --> 00:39:01,235
Nothing has been proven at all.
649
00:39:01,556 --> 00:39:03,795
I don't know what's happened to the
presumption of innocence in this country,
650
00:39:03,916 --> 00:39:08,155
but it is a constitutional right here
that we are innocent until proven guilty.
651
00:39:08,275 --> 00:39:11,956
Ross sent me this picture
of himself about a week ago.
652
00:39:12,076 --> 00:39:14,876
It was taken a couple
of weeks ago in prison.
653
00:39:14,996 --> 00:39:18,335
I guess sometimes they go around
and take pictures for the families.
654
00:39:18,436 --> 00:39:20,416
He is doing well...
655
00:39:20,516 --> 00:39:24,456
as well as can be expected,
of course, under the circumstances.
656
00:39:24,556 --> 00:39:27,856
And finally, after five months of delays,
657
00:39:27,956 --> 00:39:32,735
he has had access to the discovery,
the evidence that the prosecution has.
658
00:39:32,835 --> 00:39:35,615
And so he's been working
very hard going through that.
659
00:39:35,715 --> 00:39:37,936
We are asking the prosecution,
660
00:39:38,036 --> 00:39:41,635
"How did you find the server,"
and they're not saying.
661
00:39:42,115 --> 00:39:43,976
We have to know how they found the server
662
00:39:44,076 --> 00:39:47,695
in order to see if Ross' Fourth
Amendment rights have been violated.
663
00:39:47,795 --> 00:39:51,795
And how would anyone know if the evidence
had been tampered with or anything else
664
00:39:51,916 --> 00:39:55,516
if it's not revealed
how they found the server?
665
00:39:55,635 --> 00:39:58,896
There were 14 searches
and seizures in this case,
666
00:39:58,996 --> 00:40:02,496
which is a... a fishing expedition
667
00:40:02,596 --> 00:40:05,456
into a person's total property.
668
00:40:05,556 --> 00:40:09,076
Unlimited rummaging through all of
their things to see what they can find.
669
00:40:09,235 --> 00:40:12,215
When the criminal complaints
first appeared in October,
670
00:40:12,315 --> 00:40:15,315
I think the supporters
of the Dread Pirate Roberts
671
00:40:15,436 --> 00:40:17,215
and the Silk Road just scattered.
672
00:40:17,315 --> 00:40:20,916
Because suddenly this thing that had
seemed like an idealistic community
673
00:40:21,036 --> 00:40:25,536
built around non-violence and...
you know, libertarian free commerce,
674
00:40:25,635 --> 00:40:28,655
suddenly seemed instead like
this bloody criminal conspiracy.
675
00:40:28,755 --> 00:40:34,295
And a guy who probably otherwise
would have been a kind of...
676
00:40:34,396 --> 00:40:36,195
political cause célèbre,
677
00:40:36,315 --> 00:40:40,056
who would have had all of these
supporters calling for his freedom,
678
00:40:40,155 --> 00:40:44,094
instead was treated as a...
was an immediate pariah.
679
00:40:44,195 --> 00:40:45,434
He was seen as a criminal.
680
00:40:45,554 --> 00:40:49,574
So there's a lot of... circumstantial...
681
00:40:49,675 --> 00:40:51,855
evidence, if you want to call it that.
682
00:40:51,954 --> 00:40:54,775
There's a lot of technical bits
and pieces involved.
683
00:40:54,875 --> 00:40:56,815
It got really crazy in the middle of that.
684
00:40:56,914 --> 00:40:59,635
Sort of one thing is taking down
this online drug market.
685
00:40:59,755 --> 00:41:03,135
Another thing is pinning a number
of Murders-For-Hires on top of it.
686
00:41:03,235 --> 00:41:05,054
It just seems really, really far-fetched.
687
00:41:05,155 --> 00:41:08,775
The 29-year-old seemingly
clean-cut entrepreneur
688
00:41:08,875 --> 00:41:12,114
was living a secret life
as a digital drug lord.
689
00:41:12,235 --> 00:41:15,414
They're claiming that he's living
in a manner of a head of a cartel.
690
00:41:15,514 --> 00:41:18,235
The distinctions between Ross Ulbricht
and the head of a cartel,
691
00:41:18,355 --> 00:41:22,554
you don't have to see too many movies to
recognize what the differences are here.
692
00:41:22,835 --> 00:41:25,114
Then when the indictment finally came out,
693
00:41:25,235 --> 00:41:29,054
there were suddenly no charges around
these Murder-For-Hire accusations,
694
00:41:29,155 --> 00:41:33,295
only the drug trafficking and money
laundering and computer hacking.
695
00:41:33,394 --> 00:41:38,074
They had six charges. They used them
against him to deprive him of bail
696
00:41:38,195 --> 00:41:42,655
and yet two and a half months later...
the prosecutor didn't indict him.
697
00:41:42,755 --> 00:41:46,614
What they did instead was they
called it an "uncharged crime."
698
00:41:46,715 --> 00:41:49,135
Well, if something's a crime,
don't you charge someone for it?
699
00:41:49,235 --> 00:41:52,414
And if it's not a crime,
why is it there...
700
00:41:52,514 --> 00:41:54,835
Because it's prejudicial to a jury
701
00:41:54,954 --> 00:41:59,755
to have that sitting there unproven
just... just smearing him.
702
00:42:00,315 --> 00:42:05,135
The portrayal they want
is of someone who they could
703
00:42:05,235 --> 00:42:07,675
present to a jury
of not having redeeming value.
704
00:42:07,795 --> 00:42:10,775
It's a way of poisoning the atmosphere
705
00:42:10,875 --> 00:42:14,574
so that the jury doesn't focus
on the allegations,
706
00:42:14,675 --> 00:42:17,755
but focuses on this atmospheric
that the government has created
707
00:42:17,875 --> 00:42:20,954
that in some sense is a diversion
appealing to the emotional aspect of it
708
00:42:21,074 --> 00:42:25,335
so that if the proof is weak, the benefit
of the doubt doesn't go to the defendant,
709
00:42:25,434 --> 00:42:27,554
where it belongs,
under the presumption of innocence,
710
00:42:27,675 --> 00:42:31,295
but it goes to the government because there
are these awful things lurking out there
711
00:42:31,394 --> 00:42:32,954
which aren't part
of what we're supposed to find.
712
00:42:33,074 --> 00:42:34,875
The government doesn't have to
prove them beyond a reasonable doubt,
713
00:42:34,994 --> 00:42:36,614
but they've injected them in the case
714
00:42:36,715 --> 00:42:40,815
in a way that is toxic
to an impartial evaluation
715
00:42:40,914 --> 00:42:42,815
of what the evidence
is on the charged crimes.
716
00:42:42,914 --> 00:42:46,835
So people come in with a preconceived notion
and that's halfway there to guilt.
717
00:42:46,954 --> 00:42:51,614
Previously, the Murder-For-Hire was in there
as a charge and then it was dropped.
718
00:42:51,715 --> 00:42:53,335
But it's not gone away.
719
00:42:53,434 --> 00:42:56,114
It's included
as what they call an overt act
720
00:42:56,235 --> 00:42:59,635
in the conspiracy and to sell drugs.
721
00:42:59,755 --> 00:43:03,574
And so they actually made it
one of the things to support
722
00:43:03,675 --> 00:43:05,594
the larger drug conspiracy
723
00:43:05,755 --> 00:43:08,914
to either get a trial or get him to plead.
724
00:43:09,034 --> 00:43:12,235
It seemed like this bait and switch
that the government had accused him
725
00:43:12,355 --> 00:43:15,755
in this almost informal way of murder
726
00:43:15,875 --> 00:43:19,735
so that when he was charged with these
non-violent crimes in the end,
727
00:43:19,835 --> 00:43:22,255
he would still be seen
as a violent criminal.
728
00:43:22,355 --> 00:43:24,914
I think that that has
really been effective in...
729
00:43:25,034 --> 00:43:28,434
in coloring the portrait of Ross Ulbricht.
730
00:43:31,114 --> 00:43:32,853
Ever since Ross' arrest,
731
00:43:32,954 --> 00:43:36,713
he and his best friend Rene Pinnell
have remained in regular contact.
732
00:43:37,074 --> 00:43:39,873
Rene declined to give
substantive interviews to the press
733
00:43:39,994 --> 00:43:42,873
for fear they would be used
against Ross in court,
734
00:43:42,994 --> 00:43:46,994
but agreed to answer questions via email.
735
00:44:24,434 --> 00:44:28,114
# I'm a little teapot, short and stout #
736
00:44:28,233 --> 00:44:31,693
# Here is my handle here is my spout #
737
00:44:31,793 --> 00:44:35,213
# When I get all steamed up
hear me shout #
738
00:44:35,313 --> 00:44:38,293
# Tip me over and pour me out #
739
00:44:38,393 --> 00:44:40,233
Yay!
740
00:44:42,514 --> 00:44:44,474
Because of the severity of the charges,
741
00:44:44,594 --> 00:44:47,574
Ross was not able to grant
an interview from prison,
742
00:44:47,673 --> 00:44:51,574
which left only a scattering
of his personal photographs and movies.
743
00:44:51,673 --> 00:44:54,653
But from the exhaustive discussions
with friends and family
744
00:44:54,753 --> 00:44:57,213
and the public knowledge
of Ross's trajectory
745
00:44:57,313 --> 00:45:01,753
from Physics and Engineering major to running
a small home-spun book-selling company,
746
00:45:01,873 --> 00:45:05,514
it was difficult to understand how he could
possibly have been the sole mastermind
747
00:45:05,634 --> 00:45:08,914
of the Silk Road,
a vast and complex Internet service
748
00:45:09,034 --> 00:45:11,994
with over a million users worldwide.
749
00:45:12,114 --> 00:45:14,574
Ross was certainly bright
and studious with a deep interest
750
00:45:14,673 --> 00:45:18,673
in libertarian economic theory, which
clearly echoed the mandate and philosophy
751
00:45:18,793 --> 00:45:21,434
of many of the posts
of the Dread Pirate Roberts.
752
00:45:21,554 --> 00:45:24,474
But he had no experience whatsoever
in computer coding
753
00:45:24,594 --> 00:45:26,773
or scaling large Internet companies.
754
00:45:26,873 --> 00:45:29,614
So how did Ross connect
to what little is truly known
755
00:45:29,713 --> 00:45:31,793
about the Dread Pirate Roberts?
756
00:45:32,273 --> 00:45:35,273
DPR was motivated
by a pacifistic philosophy
757
00:45:35,474 --> 00:45:39,934
and an agenda of creating victimless
exchange and reduced harm in the drug trade.
758
00:45:40,034 --> 00:45:44,313
This ethos would be embraced by the chief
architects and vendors of the Silk Road
759
00:45:44,434 --> 00:45:47,213
and reverberate
through the entire community.
760
00:45:47,313 --> 00:45:49,733
[There were quite a few people
that I didn't sell to]
761
00:45:49,833 --> 00:45:55,233
[just because I could tell that they were
obviously not mature enough to handle]
762
00:45:55,353 --> 00:46:00,273
[using these drugs, and didn't know enough.
It was like "Go read first...]
763
00:46:00,393 --> 00:46:05,134
["go figure it out and then come back
to me and I'll sell you something"]
764
00:46:05,233 --> 00:46:09,393
["but I'm not gonna pop your cherry
and kill you, potentially."]
765
00:46:09,514 --> 00:46:13,954
[The heroin in particular I was very careful
about who I sold it to because...]
766
00:46:14,594 --> 00:46:19,112
[it was not stepped on.
It was the best heroin on Silk Road.]
767
00:46:19,672 --> 00:46:22,132
The Silk Road appeared to be
a successful experiment
768
00:46:22,233 --> 00:46:24,213
in creating a pacifistic community,
769
00:46:24,313 --> 00:46:27,432
overseen by a figurehead
with a deep-rooted ideology.
770
00:46:27,713 --> 00:46:30,172
But these core ideals
of the Dread Pirate Roberts
771
00:46:30,273 --> 00:46:33,193
were completely at odds
with the Murder-For-Hire allegations.
772
00:46:33,472 --> 00:46:35,132
Did DPR become corrupted
773
00:46:35,233 --> 00:46:39,512
and turn his back on the mandate
of non-violence and harm reduction?
774
00:46:39,632 --> 00:46:42,253
Were there other people
using the DPR account
775
00:46:42,353 --> 00:46:44,672
who were responsible for these actions?
776
00:46:44,873 --> 00:46:46,612
Or was there some other truth
777
00:46:46,713 --> 00:46:51,632
behind these alleged murder hits
that produced no victims?
778
00:46:58,512 --> 00:47:00,793
We don't know the first piece of evidence
779
00:47:00,913 --> 00:47:05,172
that lead the feds down
this chain of investigation
780
00:47:05,273 --> 00:47:10,132
to the San Francisco library
where Ross Ulbricht was arrested.
781
00:47:10,233 --> 00:47:13,532
All we know is that at some point
they located the Silk Road servers
782
00:47:13,632 --> 00:47:16,893
in a data center in Iceland
and imaged them.
783
00:47:16,992 --> 00:47:20,793
They copied all the data
off of them, and seized them...
784
00:47:20,913 --> 00:47:22,833
but we don't know
how they found those servers.
785
00:47:22,952 --> 00:47:26,672
The whole idea of the Silk Road was
that it ran as a Tor-hidden service,
786
00:47:26,793 --> 00:47:29,532
which means that Tor
protected its physical location
787
00:47:29,632 --> 00:47:33,052
and made it very difficult
to locate the computers that ran it.
788
00:47:33,152 --> 00:47:38,972
So the mystery of how the FBI,
or the DEA, or possibly the NSA,
789
00:47:39,072 --> 00:47:41,612
located those servers is still unsolved
790
00:47:41,713 --> 00:47:45,132
and, in fact, hasn't been mentioned
in any of the legal documents
791
00:47:45,233 --> 00:47:47,773
surrounding Ross Ulbricht's trial.
792
00:47:47,873 --> 00:47:50,172
I think his defense
has seized on this as...
793
00:47:50,273 --> 00:47:52,853
something that the government
doesn't want to talk about.
794
00:47:52,952 --> 00:47:58,172
And if that's the case, then it does raise
these Fourth Amendment issues
795
00:47:58,273 --> 00:48:01,913
of can the government use
essentially hacking techniques
796
00:48:02,032 --> 00:48:05,132
to dig up evidence on a criminal suspect?
797
00:48:05,233 --> 00:48:07,572
And if so, what kinds
of warrant do they need?
798
00:48:07,672 --> 00:48:10,333
If in fact there was some kind
of violation of the Fourth Amendment,
799
00:48:10,432 --> 00:48:13,572
in that initial part of the investigation,
800
00:48:13,672 --> 00:48:17,753
that really was the first clue
that lead them down this entire chain
801
00:48:17,873 --> 00:48:19,213
to the arrest of Ross Ulbricht,
802
00:48:19,313 --> 00:48:21,693
it could be a giant problem
for the prosecution
803
00:48:21,793 --> 00:48:26,432
that then taints every other piece
of evidence that they found subsequently.
804
00:48:27,313 --> 00:48:29,353
The government has prosecuted
other people for doing
805
00:48:29,472 --> 00:48:33,233
essentially what the government
did here, which is...
806
00:48:35,152 --> 00:48:39,253
trying to get underneath
the public face of a website.
807
00:48:39,353 --> 00:48:41,853
And they have alleged
that getting that information
808
00:48:41,952 --> 00:48:43,773
that's not supposed
to be publicly accessible
809
00:48:43,873 --> 00:48:48,333
by sophisticated computer,
inquiries or activities,
810
00:48:48,432 --> 00:48:52,132
that that is a violation of federal law.
811
00:48:52,233 --> 00:48:54,572
So here's... and that's why they always say,
we didn't do anything wrong,
812
00:48:54,672 --> 00:48:57,893
we didn't do anything in violation,
but they really know what's at stake here,
813
00:48:57,992 --> 00:49:00,652
because they've actually
prosecuted people for the same thing.
814
00:49:00,753 --> 00:49:04,052
And the government's affidavit,
the affidavit from Agent Tarbell
815
00:49:04,152 --> 00:49:06,431
about how they got
to the Silk Road servers
816
00:49:06,552 --> 00:49:11,152
has been met with incredulousness
by the Internet community.
817
00:49:11,552 --> 00:49:14,291
The Tarbell declaration,
to put it politely,
818
00:49:14,391 --> 00:49:17,391
seems vaguely disconnected from the truth.
819
00:49:17,512 --> 00:49:20,251
If you, depending on which
security expert you ask,
820
00:49:20,351 --> 00:49:25,612
you will get it's vaguely disconnected
to the truth to something filled with...
821
00:49:25,711 --> 00:49:28,411
it is a massive pile of bovine excrement.
822
00:49:28,512 --> 00:49:32,371
What Tarbell's story was is he was
typing away at his computer,
823
00:49:32,472 --> 00:49:37,391
visiting the Silk Road website and the
CAPTCHA was transmitted in the clear,
824
00:49:37,512 --> 00:49:41,972
and he somehow saw the IP packets
go directly to the server.
825
00:49:42,072 --> 00:49:44,891
And so he then connects to that server
and gets the CAPTCHA.
826
00:49:44,992 --> 00:49:47,632
Game over, they found the backend server.
827
00:49:47,751 --> 00:49:53,911
Unfortunately, this was playing fast
and loose with the truth.
828
00:49:54,032 --> 00:49:57,512
Because the logs provided to the defense
829
00:49:57,632 --> 00:50:02,811
show that what Tarbell found
was not the CAPTCHA image,
830
00:50:02,911 --> 00:50:05,652
but instead a php MyAdmin page.
831
00:50:05,751 --> 00:50:10,172
The server was running some stuff
over the clear, but not the CAPTCHA.
832
00:50:10,271 --> 00:50:15,632
So Tarbell's story doesn't mesh
with the FBI's own evidence.
833
00:50:16,311 --> 00:50:20,331
They hacked the servers and with that access
could essentially do whatever they wanted.
834
00:50:20,431 --> 00:50:23,472
Given just the institutional pressure
to take this thing down,
835
00:50:23,592 --> 00:50:26,112
it's naive to think that they didn't.
836
00:50:28,032 --> 00:50:30,391
Of course, it's on the table
that this is how they discovered him.
837
00:50:30,512 --> 00:50:32,952
He was dealing with Tor.
He was dealing with all these technologies
838
00:50:33,072 --> 00:50:35,572
which we know are the subject
of NSA investigations,
839
00:50:35,672 --> 00:50:37,132
as revealed by Edward Snowden.
840
00:50:37,231 --> 00:50:39,952
It's at least reasonable to assume
that there's been this kind
841
00:50:40,072 --> 00:50:43,371
of parallel construction or interference
or like not playing by the rules
842
00:50:43,472 --> 00:50:45,052
that the state deals out
for you to play with.
843
00:50:45,152 --> 00:50:48,472
But then again,
we all know that it deals the cards.
844
00:50:48,592 --> 00:50:50,952
It runs the game anyway. It's not even...
845
00:50:51,072 --> 00:50:54,771
It's naive to think that
this wasn't an available option.
846
00:50:54,871 --> 00:51:00,032
The issue is whether the agent
could have done what he said he did.
847
00:51:00,152 --> 00:51:02,931
The theory that's been
brought forward in a testimony
848
00:51:03,032 --> 00:51:05,431
by the individual agents that did it,
849
00:51:05,552 --> 00:51:08,572
they were able to manipulate
part of the server
850
00:51:08,672 --> 00:51:12,492
to cough up an address
that shouldn't have been given up
851
00:51:12,592 --> 00:51:14,771
and that address came back to Iceland.
852
00:51:14,871 --> 00:51:19,192
And that server there was hosting
the Silk Road hidden service.
853
00:51:19,952 --> 00:51:22,331
I think we're not gonna know
till we go to trial
854
00:51:22,431 --> 00:51:24,112
and we may never know for sure.
855
00:51:24,231 --> 00:51:27,012
There's always this balance of...
856
00:51:27,112 --> 00:51:29,771
trying to be forward leaning
in your investigative techniques
857
00:51:29,871 --> 00:51:32,751
and making sure that you don't
trample on rights at the same time.
858
00:51:32,871 --> 00:51:36,411
You wanna stay well within the bounds
of your legal authority,
859
00:51:36,512 --> 00:51:40,851
because if you step over the line,
the evidence is gonna be tossed.
860
00:51:40,952 --> 00:51:44,112
It's not gonna be admissible in court
and you may wind up
861
00:51:44,231 --> 00:51:46,771
jeopardizing the outcome
of an entire investigation.
862
00:51:46,871 --> 00:51:49,010
And so I think what agencies
will try and do is...
863
00:51:49,110 --> 00:51:50,931
they'll want to step right up to the line,
864
00:51:51,030 --> 00:51:54,871
and maybe get a little bit of chalk
on their toes, but don't step over it.
865
00:51:54,990 --> 00:51:58,990
Ross' lawyer made a motion to dismiss
the case based on the disputed seizure
866
00:51:59,110 --> 00:52:02,971
of the Silk Road servers,
arguing that admitting this material
867
00:52:03,070 --> 00:52:06,251
not only violates his client's
Fourth Amendment rights,
868
00:52:06,351 --> 00:52:10,550
but would set a dangerous precedent
for the rights to privacy of all citizens.
869
00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:14,251
The judge, Katherine Forest,
sided with the prosecution
870
00:52:14,351 --> 00:52:17,231
stating that the Tarbell declaration
was acceptable.
871
00:52:17,510 --> 00:52:19,951
And the motion was denied.
872
00:52:24,990 --> 00:52:28,590
Search and seizure law
in the digital age is really...
873
00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:32,331
doesn't have the limitations on it that...
874
00:52:32,431 --> 00:52:34,170
it does in the physical space.
875
00:52:34,271 --> 00:52:38,010
And we see it not only
in the search and seizure laws,
876
00:52:38,110 --> 00:52:41,490
like what is the standard upon which they
can come and grab your computer?
877
00:52:41,590 --> 00:52:44,650
What kind of searches can they do
on your computer once they have it?
878
00:52:44,751 --> 00:52:46,990
Do they just get everything?
We see this at the border.
879
00:52:47,110 --> 00:52:48,650
Or we see this at searches into arrests.
880
00:52:48,751 --> 00:52:53,110
People now carry around smart phones
that have their whole lives in them.
881
00:52:53,231 --> 00:52:57,251
And if they get stopped,
law enforcement is certainly right now
882
00:52:57,351 --> 00:53:00,530
in a lot of places taking the position
that absolutely anything that's connected,
883
00:53:00,630 --> 00:53:04,731
that's on that device,
including logging into your accounts
884
00:53:04,831 --> 00:53:07,990
that you can log into from
that device, is fair game.
885
00:53:08,110 --> 00:53:12,010
If the prosecution gets away
with this warrantless seizure
886
00:53:12,110 --> 00:53:15,731
of Americans' data as well as
all these other foreigners,
887
00:53:15,831 --> 00:53:17,951
it could have a lasting precedent
888
00:53:18,070 --> 00:53:20,650
for how the Fourth Amendment
works in the digital age.
889
00:53:20,751 --> 00:53:25,210
I think that that, in fact, may be the
most lasting effect of the Silk Road.
890
00:53:25,311 --> 00:53:28,891
Generally, what happens
in the criminal law field
891
00:53:28,990 --> 00:53:33,451
is that there's some case
of major proportion
892
00:53:33,550 --> 00:53:36,851
that is used as a means of changing rules,
893
00:53:36,951 --> 00:53:40,690
or expanding exceptions
to constitutional protections,
894
00:53:40,791 --> 00:53:42,891
and once it's there,
once the precedent is set,
895
00:53:42,990 --> 00:53:45,130
it then trickles down
very quickly and very easily
896
00:53:45,231 --> 00:53:48,951
into all sorts of ordinary cases where,
you know, the ends justify the means.
897
00:53:49,070 --> 00:53:51,811
Then all of a sudden, it's now spread.
898
00:53:51,911 --> 00:53:55,630
The average citizen may say, "Well,
why is this important to me? Why do I care?
899
00:53:55,751 --> 00:53:58,990
"I'm not buying drugs on the network. Nobody
I know is buying drugs on the network,"
900
00:53:59,110 --> 00:54:00,331
but it's not just about that.
901
00:54:00,431 --> 00:54:04,831
We're a democracy and informed citizens...
902
00:54:05,550 --> 00:54:07,630
understand they have a right to privacy
903
00:54:07,751 --> 00:54:12,570
and that the Fourth Amendment protects
against unreasonable searches and seizures.
904
00:54:12,670 --> 00:54:14,331
Information has to be encrypted.
905
00:54:14,431 --> 00:54:18,231
And that goes from a large corporation
down to an individual.
906
00:54:18,351 --> 00:54:23,291
And so for those who are arguing that
information should not be encrypted,
907
00:54:23,391 --> 00:54:28,471
certainly that makes it easier
for law enforcement to... combat,
908
00:54:28,590 --> 00:54:32,130
but it also makes it easier
for the cyber criminals to attack.
909
00:54:32,231 --> 00:54:35,409
It makes total sense that criminals
are among the early wave,
910
00:54:35,510 --> 00:54:38,829
along with the sort of paranoid people,
of these new tools and services.
911
00:54:38,949 --> 00:54:41,710
But that doesn't mean that they're
the only people using these services.
912
00:54:41,829 --> 00:54:43,889
There are a hell of a lot
of journalists that I know
913
00:54:43,989 --> 00:54:46,389
and regularly communicate
with now over Tor.
914
00:54:46,510 --> 00:54:49,889
But you know, for the people
who oppose this technology,
915
00:54:49,989 --> 00:54:52,630
who see it as a threat,
the fact that criminals use it
916
00:54:52,750 --> 00:54:55,250
is a great way to demonize it.
917
00:54:55,349 --> 00:54:57,429
I definitely do believe
that there are people in the US
918
00:54:57,550 --> 00:54:59,889
that don't think that the government
is doing anything wrong.
919
00:54:59,989 --> 00:55:03,530
It's not necessarily something that you're
concerned with or that you care too much about
920
00:55:03,630 --> 00:55:07,250
or that you're really passionate about until
you're standing right in the middle of it.
921
00:55:07,349 --> 00:55:11,409
And it's something more dangerous
than any website could ever be
922
00:55:11,510 --> 00:55:14,570
is what our government has become
and how they operate.
923
00:55:14,670 --> 00:55:17,909
This goes back to that question of the
government kind of trying to treat the Internet
924
00:55:18,030 --> 00:55:23,070
differently without following
the same kind of judicial processes.
925
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:26,110
Well, the Supreme Court has proven
that they do not agree.
926
00:55:26,349 --> 00:55:31,030
You know, recently with Riley vs California
with an illegal search of a cell phone.
927
00:55:31,429 --> 00:55:36,730
Precedent can be set that will limit
their ability to infringe on our rights.
928
00:55:36,829 --> 00:55:41,369
Someone asked how
her political views have shifted.
929
00:55:41,469 --> 00:55:45,170
Because suddenly she's standing
right in the middle of Tor,
930
00:55:45,269 --> 00:55:50,289
Bitcoin, the war on drugs,
online anonymity, encryption.
931
00:55:50,389 --> 00:55:53,690
And she's had a... she's had
to learn a lot of different things,
932
00:55:53,789 --> 00:55:57,369
and also not only
just the whole legal system but...
933
00:55:57,469 --> 00:56:00,590
everything around
the technology and the case.
934
00:56:02,510 --> 00:56:06,610
After over a year in prison,
Ross delayed the trial two months,
935
00:56:06,710 --> 00:56:10,050
stating that important discovery evidence
he needed to examine
936
00:56:10,150 --> 00:56:13,349
had only just been delivered
to him by the prosecution.
937
00:56:13,949 --> 00:56:16,769
The FBI shut down what it calls
the most sophisticated
938
00:56:16,869 --> 00:56:19,730
and extensive criminal marketplace
on the Internet,
939
00:56:19,829 --> 00:56:22,269
but it may be finding new life.
940
00:56:22,429 --> 00:56:25,610
The arrest of Ross Ulbricht
and closure of the Silk Road
941
00:56:25,710 --> 00:56:28,690
did nothing to hamper
drug sales on the dark net.
942
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:30,969
Many new markets immediately appeared,
943
00:56:31,070 --> 00:56:33,969
including a re-launch
of the Silk Road itself,
944
00:56:34,070 --> 00:56:38,010
also run by someone calling themselves
the Dread Pirate Roberts.
945
00:56:38,110 --> 00:56:41,789
And like its predecessor, the second
Silk Road also claimed a mandate
946
00:56:41,909 --> 00:56:45,369
of reducing violence and harm
in drug transactions.
947
00:56:45,469 --> 00:56:50,389
The Dread Pirate tweets, "Silk Road while
under my watch will never harm a soul.
948
00:56:50,510 --> 00:56:53,969
If we did, then we are no better
than the thugs on the street."
949
00:56:54,070 --> 00:56:58,389
The new Dread Pirate Roberts told me
that he knows he can't be around forever,
950
00:56:58,510 --> 00:57:01,489
and when he's gone, someone else...
951
00:57:01,590 --> 00:57:04,210
he's confident someone else
will step up and fill the void.
952
00:57:04,309 --> 00:57:07,530
You can take down the man,
but you can't take down the idea.
953
00:57:07,630 --> 00:57:11,769
By this time, statistics appeared
claiming the first Silk Road had succeeded
954
00:57:11,869 --> 00:57:15,869
in its mission of reducing
violence in the drug trade.
955
00:57:21,789 --> 00:57:24,989
While I was with the Baltimore
Police Department in the early 2000s,
956
00:57:25,108 --> 00:57:30,108
I had two city officers in uniform
killed by drug dealers on the street.
957
00:57:30,509 --> 00:57:34,889
And there was a family of seven,
the Dawson family on Preston Street,
958
00:57:34,989 --> 00:57:39,789
they were killed by one drug dealer in
one night, mother, father and five kids.
959
00:57:41,548 --> 00:57:45,608
And so as the years in the early
2000s start moving along,
960
00:57:45,708 --> 00:57:49,869
I'm continuing to think about this
from a place of violence
961
00:57:50,228 --> 00:57:53,588
and beginning to realize that
our policies of drug prohibition
962
00:57:53,708 --> 00:57:56,489
were actually counterproductive
to public safety.
963
00:57:56,588 --> 00:57:59,989
The one thing that I signed on
for to improve,
964
00:58:00,108 --> 00:58:03,889
to better public safety in our
neighborhoods, was making it worse.
965
00:58:03,989 --> 00:58:06,989
And... I found
966
00:58:07,108 --> 00:58:11,989
a large number of police officers and judges
and criminal prosecutors and...
967
00:58:12,108 --> 00:58:16,628
DEA agents and FBI who think the same way.
968
00:58:16,748 --> 00:58:20,369
If Baltimore moved
from street corners to online services,
969
00:58:20,469 --> 00:58:22,409
oh, my God, do you know
how many shootings,
970
00:58:22,509 --> 00:58:26,728
how many fewer shootings we would have
every year, which equate to fewer homicides?
971
00:58:26,829 --> 00:58:30,108
Number one, it removes the... the buyer...
972
00:58:30,708 --> 00:58:33,389
from the back alleys
and from the street corners
973
00:58:33,509 --> 00:58:36,949
and from those dangerous places
of dealing with the seller.
974
00:58:37,068 --> 00:58:39,449
Buying it over the Internet
where it's delivered to you,
975
00:58:39,548 --> 00:58:41,208
removes you from that scenario.
976
00:58:41,309 --> 00:58:44,748
One of the interesting things
that having an online market does
977
00:58:44,869 --> 00:58:47,568
is that it makes sellers
much more accountable to buyers.
978
00:58:47,668 --> 00:58:50,509
And one of the really interesting innovations
is the whole review system,
979
00:58:50,829 --> 00:58:54,048
where buyers can review
the sellers and the items
980
00:58:54,148 --> 00:58:58,009
that they bought from these
on these market places.
981
00:58:58,108 --> 00:59:02,248
And what that does is it makes sellers
more accountable and it lets buyers...
982
00:59:02,349 --> 00:59:05,809
it gives buyers a way
to assess both the quality,
983
00:59:05,909 --> 00:59:08,528
the purity and the potency
of the drugs they're getting.
984
00:59:08,628 --> 00:59:12,389
It makes these transactions
much more safe for the buyers.
985
00:59:12,869 --> 00:59:16,849
But we're shutting them down,
attempting to shut them down,
986
00:59:16,949 --> 00:59:19,068
because we will never shut them down.
987
00:59:20,028 --> 00:59:23,349
We've been at this drug war now
for over four decades,
988
00:59:23,469 --> 00:59:24,909
and what has happened since then?
989
00:59:25,028 --> 00:59:29,309
At the beginning, it was just the cartels
and organized crime making a ton of money.
990
00:59:29,588 --> 00:59:34,088
Today, they make globally
$322 billion off this industry.
991
00:59:34,188 --> 00:59:36,648
Corporate America's also now in the game.
992
00:59:36,748 --> 00:59:40,628
Private prisons, okay?
Corrections Corporation of America.
993
00:59:40,748 --> 00:59:46,088
About a year ago they gave out $675 million
in dividends to the shareholders.
994
00:59:46,188 --> 00:59:50,509
Drug testing companies. It's now become
a multi-billion-dollar industry.
995
00:59:50,789 --> 00:59:52,268
And who gets tested?
996
00:59:52,389 --> 00:59:56,688
Those who are in prison or under the
control of our criminal justice programs...
997
00:59:56,789 --> 00:59:58,108
on parole and probation.
998
00:59:58,228 --> 01:00:00,248
So corporate America's
making a lot of money.
999
01:00:00,349 --> 01:00:03,469
What about law enforcement?
Law enforcement's making a ton of money.
1000
01:00:03,588 --> 01:00:05,768
The government's 1033 Program, you know,
1001
01:00:05,867 --> 01:00:09,047
where we get armored vehicles
and machine guns
1002
01:00:09,148 --> 01:00:12,668
and whatever we want
of the surplus military equipment...
1003
01:00:12,788 --> 01:00:14,168
that's because of the drug war.
1004
01:00:14,268 --> 01:00:16,467
Over the years we've seen these...
1005
01:00:16,588 --> 01:00:19,847
these huge bureaucracies
build up around the drug war,
1006
01:00:19,947 --> 01:00:22,807
around prosecuting the drug war.
You've got the Drug Enforcement Agency.
1007
01:00:22,907 --> 01:00:25,527
You've got the Office
of National Drug Control Policy.
1008
01:00:25,628 --> 01:00:29,947
So a lot of the opposition is just
rooted in self interest
1009
01:00:30,068 --> 01:00:33,168
among places like the FBI and the DEA,
1010
01:00:33,268 --> 01:00:36,507
where if you're telling somebody
who's been in the FBI for 30 years
1011
01:00:36,628 --> 01:00:40,487
that drugs are no longer a priority,
that's an existential threat to them.
1012
01:00:40,588 --> 01:00:43,007
That kind of takes away
their whole reason for existence.
1013
01:00:43,108 --> 01:00:47,248
You really have to think about
the danger of some of these drugs,
1014
01:00:47,347 --> 01:00:50,807
the severe danger of addiction,
1015
01:00:50,907 --> 01:00:53,807
the havoc that it, you know,
that it reaps on families
1016
01:00:53,907 --> 01:00:57,668
and, you know,
and children, and... careers.
1017
01:00:57,788 --> 01:01:01,168
And so to say that, you know,
we need to step back and liberalize,
1018
01:01:01,268 --> 01:01:04,367
well, but you... that's one
approach you can take,
1019
01:01:04,467 --> 01:01:06,347
but then you've got to look
at a cause and effect.
1020
01:01:06,467 --> 01:01:10,467
If we do this, what are the second
and third order effects?
1021
01:01:13,347 --> 01:01:15,427
The FBI, our federal government,
they're gonna go in
1022
01:01:15,547 --> 01:01:19,327
and they're shutting these places down.
But you know what? New ones just open up.
1023
01:01:19,427 --> 01:01:21,128
'Cause there's so much money to be made.
1024
01:01:21,228 --> 01:01:25,827
They'll continue to open up,
and it's just a dog chasing its tail.
1025
01:01:35,307 --> 01:01:39,068
We're a team, and we've been working
on this thing together right from the start.
1026
01:01:40,668 --> 01:01:45,327
The way it's affected me is in some ways
very much the same as it affects Lyn,
1027
01:01:45,427 --> 01:01:48,467
but I don't have to go out there
and talk to reporters.
1028
01:01:48,588 --> 01:01:51,507
And we've... we've kind
of set it up that way.
1029
01:01:51,628 --> 01:01:55,688
It's hard enough having your...
your loved one in prison,
1030
01:01:55,788 --> 01:02:00,128
but then the whole media thing is,
it definitely adds pressure.
1031
01:02:00,228 --> 01:02:03,288
I've known for a long time that the media
1032
01:02:03,387 --> 01:02:07,788
wasn't reporting the whole story,
that it was skewed.
1033
01:02:08,188 --> 01:02:14,188
I see what Lyn and I are doing
as a... as a pushback to that.
1034
01:02:15,987 --> 01:02:20,108
Ross has been in there a year
and he's avoided all violence,
1035
01:02:20,228 --> 01:02:22,728
even though it's been around him.
1036
01:02:22,827 --> 01:02:25,588
That has matured him for sure.
1037
01:02:26,188 --> 01:02:31,307
The fact that he's come out of this
unscathed so far, speaks volumes.
1038
01:02:31,748 --> 01:02:35,507
He seems serious.
You know, there's a lot at stake.
1039
01:02:35,628 --> 01:02:39,427
He's... feeling good
that we got the extension.
1040
01:02:39,547 --> 01:02:42,228
He had this mountain
of stuff to go through
1041
01:02:42,347 --> 01:02:45,547
and I felt like he was
running out the clock.
1042
01:02:45,788 --> 01:02:48,788
And now they have that extra
two months has made...
1043
01:02:48,907 --> 01:02:51,407
has been "essential" is the word he used.
1044
01:02:51,507 --> 01:02:53,967
And so I think he feels that, you know,
1045
01:02:54,067 --> 01:02:57,186
he's much more prepared and ready.
1046
01:02:57,387 --> 01:03:01,827
Yeah, he says he's ready for trial.
He's ready to go in there and win.
1047
01:03:03,947 --> 01:03:07,146
I have also matured in this last year.
1048
01:03:07,266 --> 01:03:12,067
Matured in my thinking
about ethics, politics.
1049
01:03:12,586 --> 01:03:17,746
When I became more and more aware
of what the drug war was doing,
1050
01:03:17,867 --> 01:03:19,527
the tragedy.
1051
01:03:19,626 --> 01:03:23,626
So many people have been
victimized by the drug war.
1052
01:03:23,746 --> 01:03:27,987
It's a giant mess
and it's a story that needs telling.
1053
01:03:28,106 --> 01:03:32,786
And we've got a pulpit,
in a way, to tell it from.
1054
01:03:32,907 --> 01:03:36,407
It's so weird to be doing
all this and it's...
1055
01:03:36,507 --> 01:03:38,726
distracting and it's challenging
1056
01:03:38,827 --> 01:03:41,766
and you wanna do the right thing,
and then it's all about Ross.
1057
01:03:41,867 --> 01:03:44,887
And then we go and we see him
and hug him and talk to him
1058
01:03:44,987 --> 01:03:48,206
and hold his hand
and it's just like Ross, you know?
1059
01:03:48,306 --> 01:03:52,306
It's such a disconnect, and...
it's just so hard to see him in there.
1060
01:03:58,226 --> 01:04:01,686
Being in the prison, visiting,
it's a very emotional experience,
1061
01:04:01,786 --> 01:04:05,126
because there are all these families there
1062
01:04:05,226 --> 01:04:09,007
and they get to see
their loved one one hour a week.
1063
01:04:09,106 --> 01:04:11,407
And so they're soaking each other up.
1064
01:04:11,507 --> 01:04:14,407
And you're in a room of 150 people,
1065
01:04:14,507 --> 01:04:16,967
sitting side-by-side, tight-packed.
1066
01:04:17,067 --> 01:04:20,626
And... there's just all this emotion
1067
01:04:20,746 --> 01:04:23,067
saturating the atmosphere.
1068
01:04:34,427 --> 01:04:37,907
The prisoners have segregated themselves.
1069
01:04:38,586 --> 01:04:42,027
But as loved ones coming to visit...
1070
01:04:42,146 --> 01:04:46,746
there's no sense of, segregation...
race at all.
1071
01:04:47,827 --> 01:04:52,226
We're just 150 people
whose hearts are breaking.
1072
01:05:07,746 --> 01:05:10,606
Of all the Snowden disclosures
that have come out to date,
1073
01:05:10,706 --> 01:05:13,487
the one that will have
the greatest long-term impact
1074
01:05:13,586 --> 01:05:16,726
is the revelation that the NSA
has been subverting
1075
01:05:16,827 --> 01:05:19,786
cryptographic standards and making
the Internet less secure.
1076
01:05:20,146 --> 01:05:22,106
That disclosure, those articles,
1077
01:05:22,226 --> 01:05:25,487
have radicalized
a new generation of cryptographers,
1078
01:05:25,586 --> 01:05:27,567
a new generation of computer scientists
1079
01:05:27,666 --> 01:05:30,927
who are now intent
upon building tools and services
1080
01:05:31,027 --> 01:05:34,306
that can withstand pervasive
government surveillance.
1081
01:05:34,507 --> 01:05:38,246
Did you see our wireless
from Barclay's Bank?
1082
01:05:38,346 --> 01:05:40,786
They like Bitcoin,
so they're supporting our work.
1083
01:05:40,905 --> 01:05:44,985
They're providing us
with free Wi-Fi from the bank.
1084
01:05:47,106 --> 01:05:49,266
In the fall of 2014,
1085
01:05:49,385 --> 01:05:51,606
as Ross was preparing for his trial,
1086
01:05:51,706 --> 01:05:54,065
a group of hackers,
programmers and activists
1087
01:05:54,186 --> 01:05:56,826
met in a squat in the center of London.
1088
01:05:57,065 --> 01:06:00,326
This gathering represented
the next wave of the dark net,
1089
01:06:00,425 --> 01:06:03,246
developing new and evolved
cryptographic tools
1090
01:06:03,346 --> 01:06:05,965
that would not be so easily shut down.
1091
01:06:06,065 --> 01:06:07,945
Open source is incredibly powerful.
1092
01:06:08,065 --> 01:06:11,565
Open source is responsible
for WikiLeaks, Wikipedia, Linux,
1093
01:06:11,666 --> 01:06:16,445
which runs all of our infrastructure,
for Firefox, for Bit Torrent,
1094
01:06:16,545 --> 01:06:19,666
for Bitcoin, for all of these...
for encryption,
1095
01:06:19,786 --> 01:06:23,306
for all of these real uses
of tech... not the yuppie...
1096
01:06:23,425 --> 01:06:26,726
Angry Birds or silly apps that...
1097
01:06:26,826 --> 01:06:28,425
these people, make, you know?
1098
01:06:28,545 --> 01:06:33,206
Open source is also an example
of how we can organize economically,
1099
01:06:33,306 --> 01:06:36,806
an example for the future,
to build the products we need
1100
01:06:36,905 --> 01:06:39,505
without needing proprietary industry,
1101
01:06:39,626 --> 01:06:42,326
without needing the points of control,
1102
01:06:42,425 --> 01:06:46,706
without needing masters
and slaves and babysitters.
1103
01:06:47,226 --> 01:06:51,085
It's not enough to build
privacy-preserving tools.
1104
01:06:51,186 --> 01:06:54,646
It's not enough to write
revolutionary research papers
1105
01:06:54,746 --> 01:06:58,065
and design amazing
cryptographic primitives.
1106
01:06:58,186 --> 01:07:00,806
You have to get them
into the hands of the users.
1107
01:07:00,905 --> 01:07:03,945
And I think in the future
what you'll find is that...
1108
01:07:04,065 --> 01:07:08,445
tools like Tor, tools like OTR,
like PGP, like Bitcoin
1109
01:07:08,545 --> 01:07:11,326
will be built into the services
and applications that you use
1110
01:07:11,425 --> 01:07:13,965
and you won't know they're there.
1111
01:07:14,065 --> 01:07:18,326
We want to empower the individual,
protect the small guy.
1112
01:07:18,425 --> 01:07:21,045
We have a mistrust of central authority.
1113
01:07:21,146 --> 01:07:23,346
We believe in freedom of information.
1114
01:07:23,465 --> 01:07:27,766
First of all, we have the centralized
drug marketplace, Silk Road.
1115
01:07:27,865 --> 01:07:30,025
Governments went in and shut that down.
1116
01:07:30,226 --> 01:07:33,606
And then up sprouted dozens of different,
1117
01:07:33,706 --> 01:07:35,786
centralized drug markets.
1118
01:07:35,905 --> 01:07:39,846
And in a game of whack a mole,
they shut down one and now there's dozens.
1119
01:07:39,945 --> 01:07:42,985
And now we're entering the realm
of decentralized drug markets,
1120
01:07:43,106 --> 01:07:45,965
with no central operator,
no central point of control.
1121
01:07:46,065 --> 01:07:47,585
What are they gonna do?
1122
01:07:50,266 --> 01:07:52,365
They're gonna continue
to do these kinds of things,
1123
01:07:52,465 --> 01:07:54,585
and even if it's a distributed network,
1124
01:07:54,905 --> 01:07:58,126
peer-to-peer is worked continuously by
1125
01:07:58,226 --> 01:08:00,186
the... state and local
law enforcement agencies.
1126
01:08:00,505 --> 01:08:03,065
And they arrest people every week.
1127
01:08:03,545 --> 01:08:06,346
On November 6, 2014,
1128
01:08:06,465 --> 01:08:08,585
law enforcement agencies around the world
1129
01:08:08,706 --> 01:08:12,005
launched a coordinated effort
called "Operation Onymous,"
1130
01:08:12,106 --> 01:08:16,405
seizing hundreds of dark net sites,
including the re-launch of the Silk Road.
1131
01:08:16,506 --> 01:08:19,265
Bruce Schneier, the cryptographer,
once said to me,
1132
01:08:19,626 --> 01:08:22,244
"You know, in this cat and mouse game,
the mice will win in the end,
1133
01:08:22,345 --> 01:08:26,984
but the cats will be well fed."
I think that that's the way to see it.
1134
01:08:27,944 --> 01:08:30,444
This game is going to continue forever.
1135
01:08:30,545 --> 01:08:33,664
[They're always reacting to us...]
1136
01:08:36,465 --> 01:08:37,324
[which is fine.]
1137
01:08:37,425 --> 01:08:39,645
[But once they're reacted
and they've shored up]
1138
01:08:39,744 --> 01:08:43,564
[and they've figured out "this is the new
defenses, you're not getting past this one."]
1139
01:08:43,664 --> 01:08:46,204
[We're just gonna sit there
and pick at it and get around it again]
1140
01:08:46,305 --> 01:08:49,625
[We're always gonna win.
We're always gonna win.]
1141
01:08:50,145 --> 01:08:51,925
There's a reason the Silk Road
was so powerful.
1142
01:08:52,024 --> 01:08:54,784
And I know the cryptos now are writing
the kind of automatic Silk Road,
1143
01:08:54,904 --> 01:08:55,984
and Amir helped do this.
1144
01:08:56,104 --> 01:08:59,425
This is now the peer-to-peer model where
there's no one individual administrator.
1145
01:08:59,784 --> 01:09:03,024
And seeing that as the weak point,
technically speaking, this is all correct.
1146
01:09:03,145 --> 01:09:05,425
But there's something kind of...
1147
01:09:05,545 --> 01:09:08,225
I don't want to make him a hero, like a...
1148
01:09:09,225 --> 01:09:11,305
I don't want to say that he's a hero.
But you know...
1149
01:09:11,425 --> 01:09:13,864
DPR recognized what was at stake
1150
01:09:13,984 --> 01:09:17,685
and he was willing to do the things that most
of the libertarians weren't willing to do,
1151
01:09:17,784 --> 01:09:19,925
because he was serious about...
1152
01:09:20,024 --> 01:09:22,824
I think what the Silk Road meant.
1153
01:09:24,024 --> 01:09:25,725
Three weeks before the trial,
1154
01:09:25,824 --> 01:09:29,085
the issue of the Murders-For-Hire
suddenly resurfaced.
1155
01:09:29,185 --> 01:09:32,164
The prosecution announced
that due to these allegations,
1156
01:09:32,265 --> 01:09:36,564
they would not allow Ross's defense to know
the identities of their witnesses.
1157
01:09:36,664 --> 01:09:39,404
The defense responded that using
these uncharged crimes
1158
01:09:39,505 --> 01:09:41,265
in these manner was prejudicial.
1159
01:09:42,225 --> 01:09:45,585
A hearing was called
to resolve the matter.
1160
01:09:48,185 --> 01:09:52,085
The judge ruled that some of the witnesses
won't be made available to the defense
1161
01:09:52,185 --> 01:09:54,465
until right before the trial.
1162
01:09:54,904 --> 01:09:59,024
It's based on her saying
that Ross might intimidate
1163
01:09:59,145 --> 01:10:03,305
or even murder people... from jail.
1164
01:10:11,944 --> 01:10:15,145
When all this first happened, I said,
well, it would still have been necessary
1165
01:10:15,265 --> 01:10:19,024
to say that, well, this man's a murderer
and he was only out for his own gain.
1166
01:10:19,145 --> 01:10:23,345
You know, he had... what do you call it,
a callous disregard for human life.
1167
01:10:23,465 --> 01:10:26,425
It's necessary to paint a figure
that way rather than to make him...
1168
01:10:26,545 --> 01:10:30,104
you know, a martyr of the war on drugs.
I think that's just good planning.
1169
01:10:30,425 --> 01:10:33,864
I think it's gonna be difficult...
to have a fair trial.
1170
01:10:33,984 --> 01:10:38,125
If you are innocent until proven guilty,
then with all the evidence
1171
01:10:38,225 --> 01:10:41,805
and all the stories that have been written,
I think it's gonna be really difficult to...
1172
01:10:41,904 --> 01:10:48,064
to find people who are not influenced
by any of this at all going into it.
1173
01:11:02,265 --> 01:11:05,925
The day before the trial,
Ross provided a written statement.
1174
01:11:06,024 --> 01:11:10,024
It was the closest anyone would
ever get to an actual interview.
1175
01:11:11,104 --> 01:11:16,703
[Throughout my adult life
I've tried to stay positive...]
1176
01:11:19,543 --> 01:11:24,663
[and it's even more important
to do that now.]
1177
01:11:27,304 --> 01:11:32,104
[I'm up against
a very powerful adversary.]
1178
01:11:35,623 --> 01:11:39,104
[You know, it's all too easy to think...]
1179
01:11:42,384 --> 01:11:45,663
[that things are hopeless and to give up.]
1180
01:11:52,224 --> 01:11:54,623
[But they're not.]
1181
01:11:56,423 --> 01:11:59,344
[They're not hopeless.]
1182
01:12:01,463 --> 01:12:04,064
[I'll never give up hope...]
1183
01:12:06,184 --> 01:12:10,144
[of being free again.]
1184
01:12:24,384 --> 01:12:27,323
Ross Ulbricht went on trial today.
A jury will decide a case that could impact
1185
01:12:27,423 --> 01:12:29,583
- the future of Internet privacy.
- Good evening to you.
1186
01:12:29,703 --> 01:12:33,323
Opening arguments taking place today,
and the first witness took the stand
1187
01:12:33,423 --> 01:12:35,783
and actually just got off
a few minutes ago...
1188
01:12:35,904 --> 01:12:39,184
A Homeland Security investigation
special agent
1189
01:12:39,304 --> 01:12:43,904
who testified saying...
"Thousands of envelopes of drugs..."
1190
01:12:46,104 --> 01:12:48,984
I think everyone was surprised
that Ross Ulbricht and his lawyers
1191
01:12:49,104 --> 01:12:51,884
took this to trial in the first place
instead of just taking a plea deal
1192
01:12:51,984 --> 01:12:55,123
like pretty much everyone expected.
And today, we saw why,
1193
01:12:55,224 --> 01:12:59,363
which is that they've actually got a pretty
compelling alternate narrative
1194
01:12:59,463 --> 01:13:01,904
of how this whole case has played out.
1195
01:13:02,024 --> 01:13:06,104
The story that Dratel is telling
that Ross did create the Silk Road,
1196
01:13:06,224 --> 01:13:08,043
which is an amazing admission
to begin with,
1197
01:13:08,144 --> 01:13:12,264
and that the real operator of the Silk Road,
the Dread Pirate Roberts, framed him.
1198
01:13:12,384 --> 01:13:15,884
It's a kind of theory
that I never heard posed before,
1199
01:13:15,984 --> 01:13:19,984
that instead of Ross being the Dread
Pirate Roberts, he was framed by him.
1200
01:13:20,863 --> 01:13:23,524
But in many ways, you know,
it's something I should've expected
1201
01:13:23,623 --> 01:13:27,024
because it's what the Dread Pirate Roberts
told me when I interviewed him
1202
01:13:27,144 --> 01:13:30,684
in July of 2013
that he didn't create the Silk Road,
1203
01:13:30,783 --> 01:13:35,344
that he had inherited it from its creator,
kind of like a business acquisition.
1204
01:13:35,623 --> 01:13:39,264
The FBI has told me that that
was Ross Ulbricht lying to me.
1205
01:13:39,384 --> 01:13:43,064
If it is a lie, it would require
just a lot of foresight and planning,
1206
01:13:43,184 --> 01:13:48,344
kind of like the... you know,
an amazing game of chess or something.
1207
01:13:49,304 --> 01:13:52,804
In the first days of the trial,
the prosecution presented evidence
1208
01:13:52,904 --> 01:13:57,603
that Ross kept a journal on his laptop
describing his involvement in the Silk Road
1209
01:13:57,703 --> 01:14:01,363
and that the Bitcoins seized from his
laptop came directly from the site.
1210
01:14:01,462 --> 01:14:04,523
While the defense would argue
that Ross abandoned the Silk Road
1211
01:14:04,622 --> 01:14:09,582
after creating it and that the journal
and the Bitcoin were planted on his laptop.
1212
01:14:09,703 --> 01:14:11,762
Andy, you interviewed
the Dread Pirate Roberts.
1213
01:14:11,863 --> 01:14:15,802
What's the evidence connecting
Dread Pirate Roberts to Ulbricht directly?
1214
01:14:15,903 --> 01:14:18,802
In the first couple of weeks
of this trial, which is ongoing now,
1215
01:14:18,903 --> 01:14:21,542
we've seen that the prosecution
has a very strong case.
1216
01:14:21,662 --> 01:14:24,203
Once they seized his laptop,
they found that he had kept a journal.
1217
01:14:24,302 --> 01:14:26,983
If this is, in fact, Ulbricht's journal.
His defense claims it's not.
1218
01:14:27,103 --> 01:14:29,643
He documented the administration
of this site for years.
1219
01:14:29,743 --> 01:14:31,342
He has a log book of daily activities.
1220
01:14:31,662 --> 01:14:34,302
So this is a really tight case
that's gonna be very difficult
1221
01:14:34,422 --> 01:14:36,523
for Ulbricht to squeeze out of it.
1222
01:14:36,622 --> 01:14:38,523
Underneath, in the deep web,
1223
01:14:38,622 --> 01:14:42,682
we have an area where this young man,
according to the government,
1224
01:14:42,783 --> 01:14:45,323
has made a decision that he's going to run
1225
01:14:45,422 --> 01:14:49,922
an illegal drug empire
and we need to stop you,
1226
01:14:50,023 --> 01:14:54,222
swift and certain prosecution,
and ultimate certain punishment.
1227
01:14:55,462 --> 01:14:59,422
As the trial continued, Dratel planned
to reveal the government's own evidence
1228
01:14:59,542 --> 01:15:03,622
showed they suspected multiple
people of running the Silk Road.
1229
01:15:03,823 --> 01:15:07,182
During his cross examination
of DHS agent Der-Yeghiayan,
1230
01:15:07,302 --> 01:15:11,203
Dratel was able to expose that the agent
had long suspected another person
1231
01:15:11,302 --> 01:15:13,262
to be the Dread Pirate Roberts,
1232
01:15:13,382 --> 01:15:16,302
going so far as to seek
a warrant for this suspect.
1233
01:15:16,903 --> 01:15:19,842
The protection protested
this entire line of questioning
1234
01:15:19,943 --> 01:15:21,682
on the grounds that it was hearsay.
1235
01:15:21,783 --> 01:15:25,382
The judge sided with the prosecution
and Dratel was no longer allowed
1236
01:15:25,502 --> 01:15:28,563
to question government witnesses
about alternate suspects
1237
01:15:28,662 --> 01:15:31,182
that came from
the government's own evidence.
1238
01:15:31,302 --> 01:15:34,243
When the time came
for Dratel to begin his defense,
1239
01:15:34,342 --> 01:15:36,162
he intended to use expert witnesses
1240
01:15:36,262 --> 01:15:40,382
to explain that the complex technology
behind encryption and cryptocurrency
1241
01:15:40,502 --> 01:15:44,962
made it difficult to prove that the journal
and the Bitcoin belonged to Ross.
1242
01:15:45,063 --> 01:15:47,323
The prosecution objected
to these witnesses,
1243
01:15:47,422 --> 01:15:49,983
claiming they should have been
made known earlier in the trial
1244
01:15:50,103 --> 01:15:53,643
and they were not necessary
for the jury's understanding of the case.
1245
01:15:53,743 --> 01:15:56,302
Once again, the judge sided
with the prosecution,
1246
01:15:56,422 --> 01:16:00,342
stating that this case did not require
specialized knowledge.
1247
01:16:00,703 --> 01:16:03,122
Without expert witnesses
and unable to pursue
1248
01:16:03,222 --> 01:16:05,922
the government's own evidence
of an alternate DPR,
1249
01:16:06,023 --> 01:16:09,762
Dratel's entire defense
was effectively blocked.
1250
01:16:09,863 --> 01:16:13,222
The trial ended abruptly the next day.
1251
01:16:19,023 --> 01:16:23,182
The trial of Ross Ulbricht
raised more questions than it answered.
1252
01:16:23,302 --> 01:16:27,643
Did we really know the full truth
of the Silk Road case?
1253
01:16:27,743 --> 01:16:30,243
Would this case set a precedent
for the warrantless search
1254
01:16:30,342 --> 01:16:32,722
of Americans' digital property?
1255
01:16:32,823 --> 01:16:36,542
Whatever the ultimate outcome,
it was clear that the fall of the Silk Road
1256
01:16:36,662 --> 01:16:39,462
was not the end of a chapter,
but the beginning.
1257
01:16:39,782 --> 01:16:44,002
And the movement to create tools
and services for online privacy
1258
01:16:44,101 --> 01:16:46,021
is stronger than ever.
1259
01:16:46,141 --> 01:16:48,282
The trial of Silk Road
mastermind Ross Ulbricht
1260
01:16:48,381 --> 01:16:51,362
concluded when a jury found him guilty
on seven different counts
1261
01:16:51,462 --> 01:16:55,242
that included three drug charges as well
as computer hacking, money laundering
1262
01:16:55,341 --> 01:16:59,181
and even a kingpin charge
of continuing a criminal enterprise.
1263
01:16:59,381 --> 01:17:01,921
Ulbricht faces a minimum
of 30 years behind bars,
1264
01:17:02,021 --> 01:17:04,221
but his defense plans
to appeal this decision.
1265
01:17:04,341 --> 01:17:06,242
Anyone here, all of us,
1266
01:17:06,341 --> 01:17:10,261
are going to be judged by things for which
there is no attribution in real life.
1267
01:17:10,502 --> 01:17:12,601
There's only attribution on the Internet
1268
01:17:12,702 --> 01:17:16,681
for things to be created, codified,
edited, moved, hacked.
1269
01:17:16,782 --> 01:17:19,381
- Was it a fair trial?
- No, I don't think so.
1270
01:17:21,582 --> 01:17:25,881
As the actual verdict was read,
the word "guilty" was said seven times.
1271
01:17:25,981 --> 01:17:29,801
Ross was just staring straight ahead.
I don't know what was on his face.
1272
01:17:29,902 --> 01:17:32,521
But afterwards he turned back
to look at his family
1273
01:17:32,622 --> 01:17:35,962
and he had this really heartbreaking
kind of stoic smile.
1274
01:17:36,061 --> 01:17:39,542
And he was just... he wasn't crying,
but he was just blinking...
1275
01:17:39,662 --> 01:17:41,921
like blinking hard.
1276
01:17:42,021 --> 01:17:43,742
And...
1277
01:17:44,542 --> 01:17:48,582
then as he was led away,
his mom said, "This is not the end."
1278
01:17:49,261 --> 01:17:52,301
You know, that was it.
1279
01:17:55,942 --> 01:17:58,782
The evidence against
Ulbricht was so powerful
1280
01:17:58,902 --> 01:18:02,761
and Dratel's strategy had been to try
to cross examine every government witness
1281
01:18:02,862 --> 01:18:06,181
and to pull out his alternative story
through that cross examination.
1282
01:18:06,301 --> 01:18:08,782
And when the judge essentially
shut that down and said
1283
01:18:08,902 --> 01:18:13,481
you have to limit your cross examination
to the scope of the government's...
1284
01:18:13,582 --> 01:18:19,542
initial questioning, that really
prevented him from telling any other story.
1285
01:18:22,662 --> 01:18:26,601
We have a much more informed perspective
than the rest of the world.
1286
01:18:26,702 --> 01:18:31,242
We have meetings that we've had with Josh
through the last year and three months...
1287
01:18:31,341 --> 01:18:32,582
regular meetings.
1288
01:18:32,702 --> 01:18:37,341
We know about how he felt like he might
win the case, in cross examination.
1289
01:18:38,021 --> 01:18:43,822
We know that the government, that his
witnesses were blocked from testifying.
1290
01:18:44,862 --> 01:18:49,981
We were in the courtroom
and we saw what happened and the...
1291
01:18:50,421 --> 01:18:54,141
the travesty, the... appalling,
1292
01:18:54,702 --> 01:18:56,942
obstruction of justice that happened.
1293
01:18:57,061 --> 01:19:01,662
There was 5,000 pages of government
evidence to do with one witness alone,
1294
01:19:01,782 --> 01:19:05,082
Jarod Der-Yeghiayan.
None of that was allowed.
1295
01:19:05,181 --> 01:19:08,822
5,000 pages, and it was dumped
on the defense 10 days before trial.
1296
01:19:08,942 --> 01:19:14,021
Another 2,500 pages for other witnesses was
dumped on the defense a week before trial.
1297
01:19:14,141 --> 01:19:18,862
And it was full of exculpatory evidence
favorable to Ross
1298
01:19:18,981 --> 01:19:21,122
that was not permitted to be used.
1299
01:19:21,221 --> 01:19:25,881
All this great, huge field of evidence
1300
01:19:25,980 --> 01:19:31,100
that came out in the 3,500 material,
a week before trial, that was...
1301
01:19:31,940 --> 01:19:34,081
that would help prove Ross's innocence
1302
01:19:34,180 --> 01:19:38,480
was excluded from being
brought out in the courtroom.
1303
01:19:38,581 --> 01:19:41,701
It would have been a whole different case.
This was the trial that didn't happen.
1304
01:19:41,820 --> 01:19:44,261
- The trial that didn't happen.
- It just didn't happen because it was...
1305
01:19:44,381 --> 01:19:49,421
only the prosecution's narrative
that we heard.
1306
01:19:52,541 --> 01:19:54,940
So then what about the hacking
of the Silk Road servers?
1307
01:19:55,060 --> 01:19:57,240
What about the precedent issue
of the case?
1308
01:19:57,341 --> 01:20:01,740
We didn't get that far. We didn't get
to even have that kind of public hearing
1309
01:20:01,860 --> 01:20:03,980
where the FBI has to say how they did it
1310
01:20:04,100 --> 01:20:07,280
and then we get to decide
whether that was legal or illegal.
1311
01:20:07,381 --> 01:20:10,341
That's maybe the most frustrating thing
about this case from a legal point of view
1312
01:20:10,461 --> 01:20:15,240
is that American law enforcement
hacked a foreign server, I believe,
1313
01:20:15,341 --> 01:20:17,720
and they didn't have a warrant
1314
01:20:17,820 --> 01:20:21,560
and they completely got away
with it and nobody's even...
1315
01:20:21,661 --> 01:20:24,761
nobody even gets to ask
any questions about it.
1316
01:20:24,860 --> 01:20:27,921
- How is Ross through all of this?
- He's an amazing guy.
1317
01:20:28,020 --> 01:20:31,140
You know, he's handling this
so much better than I would've.
1318
01:20:31,261 --> 01:20:34,701
I don't know how I could've taken
what he's put up with
1319
01:20:34,820 --> 01:20:38,581
and been subjected to
in this last year and three months.
1320
01:20:38,860 --> 01:20:41,301
And we pray that...
1321
01:20:41,860 --> 01:20:44,621
his spirit won't be crushed by this.
1322
01:20:46,301 --> 01:20:48,220
It seems that Ross conceived
of the Silk Road,
1323
01:20:48,341 --> 01:20:51,140
that he ran it for its
entire existence online.
1324
01:20:51,261 --> 01:20:54,081
I actually accept that
the government has proven that.
1325
01:20:54,180 --> 01:20:58,501
But Ross Ulbricht...
is a fascinating character.
1326
01:20:58,621 --> 01:21:00,600
He invented this brilliant thing.
1327
01:21:00,701 --> 01:21:03,161
He had principles.
He wasn't just a cyber-criminal.
1328
01:21:03,261 --> 01:21:07,640
He wasn't just a drug lord or a kingpin
as he's described in these charges.
1329
01:21:07,740 --> 01:21:10,121
He was also an idealistic guy.
1330
01:21:10,220 --> 01:21:13,860
And I'm gonna be conflicted
about both the...
1331
01:21:13,980 --> 01:21:16,581
kind of virtue of the Silk Road
and of Ross Ulbricht as a person,
1332
01:21:16,701 --> 01:21:18,280
I think, for the rest of my life.
1333
01:21:18,381 --> 01:21:21,301
I'm not gonna be able to come
to a conclusion about this.
1334
01:21:23,621 --> 01:21:26,520
[On March 25th, 2015,
a criminal complaint was filed...]
1335
01:21:26,621 --> 01:21:30,570
[against two former federal agents who
led the Silk Road task force in Baltimore.]
1336
01:21:30,671 --> 01:21:34,301
[Among other charges, these agents allegedly
stole over a million dollars in Bitcoin...]
1337
01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:37,761
[from the Silk Road and transferred them
to personal accounts.]
1338
01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:41,841
[The government did not allow
Ulbricht's defense...]
1339
01:21:41,940 --> 01:21:46,581
[to address this criminal investigation
during the trial.]
1340
01:21:47,930 --> 01:21:51,171
[On May 29th, 2015, Ross Ulbricht
was sentenced to life in prison...]
1341
01:21:51,291 --> 01:21:54,911
[without the possibility of parole.]
1342
01:22:02,310 --> 01:22:04,791
I don't know. Got any more questions
or should we wrap it up?
1343
01:22:04,911 --> 01:22:10,990
Yes. What are you going to do
over the next five years?
1344
01:22:11,551 --> 01:22:13,511
In one sentence.
1345
01:22:25,350 --> 01:22:28,510
I'm going to do a few things,
so one sentence isn't enough.
1346
01:22:28,630 --> 01:22:32,630
But, I wanna... I'm pretty sure I wanna
start a family in the next five years.
1347
01:22:32,750 --> 01:22:34,430
Nice. Okay.
1348
01:22:34,670 --> 01:22:36,430
And...
1349
01:22:36,550 --> 01:22:39,930
and... yeah, make more friends
1350
01:22:40,029 --> 01:22:42,729
and close people I love.
1351
01:22:42,829 --> 01:22:45,109
Yeah. Focus on...
1352
01:22:46,510 --> 01:22:48,630
being more connected to people.
1353
01:22:49,069 --> 01:22:52,949
And... 20 years?
1354
01:22:53,949 --> 01:22:56,109
20 years.
1355
01:22:58,109 --> 01:23:00,449
I wanna have had a...
1356
01:23:00,550 --> 01:23:04,630
substantial, positive impact
on the future of humanity by that time.
1357
01:23:04,750 --> 01:23:06,489
Do you think you're gonna live forever?
1358
01:23:06,590 --> 01:23:08,670
I think it's a possibility.
1359
01:23:09,310 --> 01:23:12,829
I honestly do. I think I might
live forever in some form
1360
01:23:12,949 --> 01:23:16,430
by that time with technologies
changing so fast.
1361
01:23:17,510 --> 01:23:20,149
Cool. I hope I'm going there.
1362
01:23:21,829 --> 01:23:23,550
Sweet.
1363
01:23:24,689 --> 01:23:28,829
[Someday, we could be a shining beacon of
hope for the oppressed people of the world]
1364
01:23:28,930 --> 01:23:33,350
[just as so many oppressed and violated
souls have found refuge here already.]
1365
01:23:33,449 --> 01:23:35,649
[Will it happen overnight? No.]
1366
01:23:35,750 --> 01:23:38,529
[Will it happen in a life time?
I don't know.]
1367
01:23:38,630 --> 01:23:42,430
[Is it worth fighting for
until my last breath? Of course.]
1368
01:23:42,529 --> 01:23:46,747
[Once you've seen what's possible,
how can you do otherwise?]
130002