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-(insects chittering) -(birds chirping)

(crowd chatter)

(whispering): Going to Marc Jacob.

-(laughing) -Marc Jacobs.

♪ ♪

-Marc Jacobs. -Marc.

This is Marc. Marc.

It's Marc Jacobs.

-Marc Jacobs. -Marc Jacobs.

-Marc Jacobs. -Marc-Marc... -Marc Jacobs.

...Jacobs. Marc's my friend. Marc Jacob.

("100%" by Sonic Youth playing)

♪ I can never forget you ♪

♪ The way you rock the girls ♪

♪ They rule the world and love you ♪

♪ A blast in the underworld ♪

♪ But all I know is you got no money ♪

♪ But that's got nothing to do with a good time ♪

♪ Hey. ♪

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

(song ends)

JIMMY FALLON: Please welcome Anna Wintour

and Marc Jacobs.

-(applause and cheering) -(band playing)

♪ Fashion, fa... fashion. ♪

-Marc, you-you share the couch. -Oh, yeah.

Yeah, you'll be sharing... sharing a chair

-this evening. Yes. -Okay.

Welcome. Welcome to the show.

It's really wonderful when you see someone like Marc,

whom I've known for so many years

and-and seen him struggle in the early days

and become such a success and, I think, such an inspiration

to so many young designers all over the world.

I remember my first cover. You put...

It was Michaela, an Israeli model,

and you put her in a yellow and white dress of mine.

It was back in the days of Perry Ellis,

and I was on the subway going to work,

and someone said to me,

"You've got a dress on the cover of Vogue.

What are you doing on the subway?"

-(laughter) -JIMMY: They want you to take

-a horse and carriage? Yeah. -I was like, "Well..."

(applause and laughter fade)

MARC: I mean, for-for me,

there's just so, like, so much fear in starting.

Like, again, it's like, I guess, a blank page.

And it's just like, I guess, for a writer, like,

"What do you write?" And for a musician,

"What do you, you know, sing or write in music?"

(talking indistinctly)

-MARC: All right, what have you got? -ANNA: All right.

-So you're looking at the... -Needle-punch?

...needle-punch first.

So we tried-- this is a Shetland yarn,

and this is cashmere.

-We tried... -MARC: I love Shetland.

Can we get anything more in the-- like, what gauge is this?

ANNA: This is all 7 gauge.

MARC: Yeah, maybe we should try a lower,

-like a 5 or a 3. -Yeah, yeah.

Like, so it's more s-sweatery.

ANNA: Yeah, sure.

More sw...

Yeah, so we can see the stitch more

-and it's more... -ANNA: Mm-hmm.

I was looking for something, like, sheer,

but not polybit, not nylon,

nothing-- not really a synthetic.

More like a wool that was, like, a fine gauge or a woolen nylon.

So something that looks more like wool but transp--

Like, so maybe between the size of the yarn, the gauge

and the, um, tension... but some-somehow

-where we could get a sheer feeling. -Right, right.

To, um...

To discuss...

...how nothing there is.

-Like... (laughs) -SOFIA: The blank page helped.

The blank page...

-I feel for you. -Yeah, it's...

No, it's just the way it is.

I-I mean, I do-- I have faith that it will become something.

So like a good leather, men's-men's leather belt.

-Like, not... -(Anna speaks indistinctly)

-Not like a '90s Milanese belt. -(laughs): Yeah. Okay.

-MARC: That's kind of good. -ANNA: Nice.

I mean, if we could do it finer. It's a little...

-I'd like it cleaner. -Mm-hmm.

-Cleaner. Okay. -MARC: Cleaner.

ANNA: Yes, so just maybe too textured for you.

-And this is very... -But, but...

ANNA: But the hand feel is good.

These are from Enrico, different weights.

So our objective was to get a smaller stitch size

and to get more structure,

-ideally with more filler. -JOSEPH: Yeah.

These are all 18 gauge

and they couldn't really add much more filler.

MARC: With us, like, we-we get to the place,

or I get to the place where I'm sitting with everyone

and we're like, "Well, we've got to do something,

we've got to make some decisions about fabric."

And then there's just a lot of different conversations

that go on through the process, but I don't know

that-- I can't remember...

...a season or a show where we were, like, from the beginning,

we knew what we wanted to do and it was about

working towards achieving that.

ANNA: Yeah.

(Anna chuckles quietly)

Okay.

Sure?

-Yeah. -Okay.

("Smoke Gets In Your Eyes" by The Platters playing)

MARC: I think the reality

of, um...

putting together the collection

and, you know, getting to the point

of the show is like... really

a series of ideas,

and some of them feel very, very strong or interesting.

'Cause it's a, it is a process.

So it's like, you know, for a few months,

like, all creative energy is focused on doing this thing.

You know, there could be, um,

a movie night with John and Rachel

that includes The Bitter Tears of Petra Von Kant

and it's, like, the first time I ever saw it

so it really visually was so stimulating

and, like, the insanity of it.

There was so much-- it was so loaded that it could--

like, of course it was gonna be a part

of what we were working on.

I mean, because it stimulated me.

♪ ♪

This is the part where we try to figure out

what the models will be wearing on their legs.

-JOSEPH: Yeah. See, this is just like... -(laughing)

So, there's either doing, like,

custom colors of a hosiery brand that we found...

-ROMAN: Yeah. -...and then we have to figure out

what degree of sheerness or opaqueness we want

and then have the colors dyed to our specifications.

Or there-there was a plan, once upon a time,

to make them ourselves with our knitwear factories,

which we really loved that idea,

but there's very boring technical problems with that.

I mean, this was one of the Alex Katz painting

that we were really into, just how flat,

like, the black dresses were on all these women.

-SOFIA: I love her. -MARC: Yeah.

But this line, I just loved the texture of the skin,

that it was very powdery and flat and matte.

JOSEPH: So this is... this is like mannequin leg, right?

This is our opaque, much more opaque...

(Delilah giggling)

JOSEPH: The...

(Joseph speaks indistinctly)

-MARC: Okay. Yeah. -Right?

-SOFIA: It does look like mannequin leg. -Yeah. -Yeah.

But is there a problem with that one?

-JOSEPH: No. -So you can dye that any color?

Yeah, it comes in white.

Yeah, so that's no problem at all.

-The really opaque one. -Yeah.

The real mannequin.

MARC: Like, this is a toile

that Joseph made, and it's, like, um,

-an idea, right? -Yeah.

-But it will become a much more sophisticated... -Right.

...interpretation of this idea.

You know, we're... continuing to make clothes

and study clothes as the fittings are happening upstairs

on the models and the castings and the music and...

Like, so, it's just, like,

that's all happening at the same time,

so, like, everything is delivered...

It's, like, very last minute.

I look over my shoulder at, like, other designers

and I think, like, "Well, the reason their work is so strong

"and so good and... is that they're so talented

"and they probably have it all decided from the beginning

"and then it's about, like, a really extraordinary,

"you know, um, execution of a single thought.

"And if I could be like them,

this is the way it would turn out, too."

♪ ♪

(speaking French)

♪ ♪

MARC: When I look at my heroes in fashion,

like, if you look at Saint Laurent

and, you know, if you read the sort of history

of, like, that, like, Ballet Russe collection,

which was so extraord--

like how it was, like, in this fever of the night

that, like, you know, he draped all these fabrics on the stands,

or-- I think it was that one

-that he did that for. -SOFIA: Oh, wow.

MARC: I don't know, I can't remember what,

but it was one of his, like, legendary collections

that apparently...

You know, and it was just, like, a night of sketching

and, like, fabrics all over the...

And, it's like, that's what I want.

Like, you know, but it's just not our story.

SOFIA: Yeah, it doesn't have, like...

("Cavern" by Liquid Liquid playing)

(low chatter)

-Now, this, that cut generally fit... -Yes.

The fun part is how the hell do we fit this sleeve,

-this super wide sleeve... -Okay.

'Cause, see, I don't want it going into a narrow...

Ah, the top.

It can't be na-- It's got to be large,

the top of the sleeve head, you know, the sleeve.

-Ah. -So the body itself...

-Uh-huh, uh-huh. -...has to be wide up here.

-Yeah, yeah. -So we're gonna have to do

this very kind of wide arm part.

-Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. -Because most of the sleeves,

-they hang like this, right? -Yeah, I know, it's collapse.

-Exactly. Ah. -But what we want

-is to see this width up there. -Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

-So you just, from the side... -Side.

-...you've got all this tipping that way... -Mm-hmm.

-...and these tipping this way. -Mm.

MARC: Interesting little backstory about this.

-SOFIA: Yeah? -This was a brocade we developed

once for a collection a long time ago--

we never used it-- but it came from...

There was an auction catalog that had

one of Elizabeth Taylor's suits

and it was done by Chanel for Elizabeth Taylor in a brocade.

So we developed basically a pattern inspired by that suit.

And then this season, we were talking about,

like, having a gold brocade, and we're like,

"Oh, well, let's look at that pattern again,"

and we just blew it up.

We made it bigger and then more like,

-with more relief. -JOSEPH: Yeah.

And then the volume of the fabric is a little bit

more exaggerated, so... what goes around, comes around.

SOFIA: I like the whole "all roads lead to Liz."

-All roads. I mean, always. -(Sofia laughs)

♪ ♪

Aren't you happy with me?

Happy?

Trouble is, I'm too happy.

MARC: These are brooches from

-the Elizabeth Taylor jewelry collection. -(Sofia laughs)

And I just felt very...

There was that quote by Andy Warhol

when they asked him what he'd want to come back as,

and he said, "I want to come back

as a diamond on Elizabeth Taylor's finger."

-I never heard... -And I just thought, like, "Oh, wow," so...

But, I mean, it wasn't because of that quote,

-but the quote came to mind when I... -Yeah.

We were researching and looking at jewelry,

'cause I like this idea of the patch,

but, um, then I just thought it needs to have

some kind of sense,

so I thought, like, right, Elizabeth Taylor's jewelry.

SOFIA: I can't wait to see it all come together.

-MARC: Me, too. -(Sofia laughs)

(blow-dryer whirring)

♪ ♪

MARC: We got very playful in the fitting room one day

and we were just, like, stacking wigs on top of wigs and,

-you know, like you do. -(Sofia chuckling)

And, um, I sent the pictures to Alastair,

and he was like, "Oh, I love it."

So we were talking about how serious that was.

Like, maybe would we do that, would we not do that?

The pluses and minuses of doing something theatrical

and how that's entertaining

or keeping it more real and more about, like...

Anyway, so we went through all of those aspects?

-Yeah. We did. -Right?

And... we have not come to a conclusion.

SOFIA: Are you leaning one way or the other, or you're...

We're leaning towards entertainment.

-Entertainment and joy. -(chuckling)

♪ Hello, Dolly ♪

♪ Well, hello, Dolly... ♪

MARC: I went to the opening night of Hello, Dolly!

That was my first movie in a theater.

♪ Back where you belong... ♪

SOFIA: Why do all gay men love Barbra Streisand?

MARC: I don't know. Like...

I love Barbra Streisand.

But I-I don't know what it is.

Wh... It's a really...

That's a really good question.

But I guess there's something,

I don't know if it's the nails and the long finger

or if it's the whole, like...

I mean, I-I don't know.

But it's not only Barbra Streisand.

-It's like, Barbra Streisand... -SOFIA: Liza.

MARC: ...Liza Minnelli,

-Diana Ross... -Yeah.

...is a big one for the gays, I think.

SOFIA: Yeah, glamour.

MARC: Yeah. But I think there's just a theatricality.

When you look at those women, they're so much

like a caricature of themselves, you know, and they have that--

-Joan Crawford's another one. -Oh, yeah.

You know, there's like that caricature, camp.

-Camp of womanhood. Yeah. -(Marc laughs)

♪ Well, all the odds are ♪

♪ They're in my favor ♪

♪ Something's bound to begin ♪

♪ It's gotta happen ♪

♪ Happen sometime ♪

♪ Maybe this time ♪

♪ Maybe this time I'll ♪

♪ Win. ♪

(song ends)

I don't know when the first time I saw Cabaret was.

Uh...

But it was...

I'm-I'm pretty sure it was Cabaret

that made me fall in love with Bob Fosse

and then want to see Damn Yankees,

and then want to see Sweet Charity,

and then want to see,

like, everything that Bob Fosse ever did.

SOFIA: I feel like all his movies were great.

MARC: Yeah. He's just a great...

-And All That Jazz. -All That Jazz.

Great mind.

("On Broadway" by George Benson playing)

♪ They say the neon lights are bright on Broadway ♪

♪ They say there's always magic in the air... ♪

MARC: I think somewhere in another life

I really want to be, um, a theater director,

or something like that.

I don't really, but I think this...

this has a very, like, doing the fashion thing

is just very linked, it's the same kind of process:

the casting, the music, the set, the costumes.

Like, only in fashion, you get to do all of it.

(vocalizing in song)

The set design was inspired by this Jeremiah Goodman painting

of Diana Vreeland's apartment, Garden in Hell.

♪ On Broadway ♪

♪ Looking at them just gives me the blues. ♪

♪ ♪

("Funky Boss" by Beastie Boys playing)

MARC: I loved, um...

you know, I loved back-to-school clothes.

SOFIA: How young were you when you were starting to think

about your back-to-school look?

MARC: I-I have...

I have it in my mind, like, eight or nine, but, um...

I think I was very influenced by teenagers I saw at the time

who, I think one of them was a babysitter,

and, um, she--

the babysitter and her friends, you know, were probably 18, 19,

and they were wearing, like, flared jeans

and they had, like, you know, they had, like, their...

teenage hippie vibes or whatever was going on. (laughs)

Like, early '70s.

And I just looked at them, and I thought they looked so cool

that I wanted to look like them.

You know, like, at my young age.

("The Candy Man" by Cibo Matto playing)

(vocalizing)

SOFIA: Did you ever think as a kid that you would have

your salon at Bergdorf Goodman?

(Marc laughs)

MARC: No. I mean, it is funny, the Bergdorf Goodman thing,

because I remember going there with my grandmother.

And my grandmother was, like, really fashiony.

She really loved clothes.

She was of a generation where there was,

like, a great, like, respect for clothes

and also what was appropriate for certain things.

So she had subscribed to that notion that gloves,

like, leather gloves, were either black or white.

Like, you just didn't wear colored leather gloves.

(laughs): Like, I don't know where that came from.

-You know, so... -(doorbell ringing)

SOFIA: Is that where your sophistication,

your taste, comes from?

-And, like, you know about stuff. -I think it came...

-Appreciation definitely came from... -(door opens)

I used to go shopping with her, and I used to, I just loved it

when she'd have the beauty parlor appointment on Friday,

and then she'd go to Bergdorf's which was down the block

from the salon that she went to, and...

You know, and I think, I think I saw...

or-or saw, like, beautiful or more luxurious clothes,

you know, with her.

And she was also very...

like, she didn't have a lot to do, so,

like, during the week, her outings to different places

were very, like, that was what her-- she did.

So, like, Bonwit Tellers was on a certain day,

and Saks Fifth Avenue was on a certain day,

and Bergdorf was the day of her salon, so she would buy

certain things from certain places. Like, she's be like...

-SOFIA: She had a schedule of... -(chuckles)

She... Yeah. She'd, like, plan her day around that, so, like,

then you'd know what restaurant she'd eat at for lunch,

or where she'd... Like, if she was at Lord & Taylor,

she'd go to the Bird Cage, and she'd have chicken salad.

Like, everything was very set.

("Heart of Glass" by Blondie playing)

-SOFIA: Hi. -Morning.

Good morning.

(continues indistinctly)

♪ Once I had a love, and it was a gas... ♪

Maybe back there.

Let's do Marc's office.

♪ Had a heart of glass ♪

♪ Seemed like the real thing, only to find ♪

♪ Mucho mistrust, love's gone behind ♪

♪ In between ♪

♪ What I find is pleasing, and I'm feeling fine ♪

♪ Love is so confusing, there's no peace of mind ♪

♪ If I fear I'm losing you, it's just no good ♪

♪ You teasing like you do. ♪

-(Sofia chuckling) -ROMAN: That's good.

Go to the other side. Sort of come around

-and we can see you better. -SOFIA: My cameo.

Yeah.

-SOFIA: No? -ROMAN: It's upside down, but it's okay.

SOFIA: But-but the words are...

Okay, then that's more important.

(Roman and Sofia chuckling)

One of my favorite outfits is, it was Halloween

and I didn't have a costume and Marc brought, got...

-And Andrew. -Yeah, and Andrew.

We were all having Halloween and you brought me, um,

-a boy's cop uniform. -Police... Yeah.

But it fit me. It was so chic.

-Like, it fit me perfectly. -Yeah.

I was like, of course, that was one of my favorite Marc outfits.

ROMAN: How-- I'm gonna ask two questions.

How long have you guys known each other?

When do you remember first meeting Sofia?

-SOFIA: Uh, at, um... -MARC: Perry Ellis.

SOFIA: At Perry Ellis.

-Yeah. -Like, it was '93?

-It was... -Or '92?

-It was grunge. -It was grunge,

-and we were in New York. -Yeah.

And I asked Mom to take me to see your collection.

But I don't... I-I must've seen it in a magazine.

Was it in Vogue or something?

I-I don't know how I knew about it

'cause there was no Internet then.

I don't know. Well, 'cause it's you.

-I know. -You know about things. That's how.

SOFIA: I was excited. I was, like,

-early 20s. -New York was a small place.

Sofia and Spike. This is Spike Jonze,

video director extraordinaire, Dirt magazine editor.

And Sofia Coppola, photographer, fashion model,

they came up to us and said, "We want to do a fashion show,"

and we were like, "Great. Whatever."

And then six months later,

-they were really serious about it. -Yeah.

And then we all four got our heads together,

and the rest is history.

INTERVIEWER: You guys kind of came up with the idea

of, like, how the fashion show is gonna look

and where it was gonna be.

How'd you come up with that idea?

SOFIA: Well, because it's, uh, Fashion Week,

we wanted to do it in New York

in the middle of the whole traditional Fashion Week.

And, um, our friend Marc Jacobs just had a show down the street

so we figured while everyone leaves that,

they could come check this out.

I just thought it'd be fun to do a fashion show,

um, but I-I never designed a line of clothes, so

we were just talking about doing a outlaw fashion show

to liven things up this week.

(punk music playing)

KIM: You know, it's sort of like your dream

is always to wake up in the morning and be able

to reach in your closet, half asleep,

and just put on something that's gonna, like, fit

and look fabulous and you don't have to think about it.

MARC: When you think Milk, right, or X-girl

and you think about, like, the perfect baby tee,

-or whatever we called it then... -Yeah.

...you know that little perfectly, like...

If you, if you just imagine, like,

what somebody else would be like,

"What, what are they making such a big deal about,

-like, a T-shirt?" -SOFIA: Yeah.

MARC: But I remember, like,

Kim Gordon and Daisy...

and they'd be like, you know, they-they were so precise...

-Yeah. -...about how that miniskirt had to fit.

-♪ ♪ -MAN: Yeah, baby.

RITA ACKERMANN: And the world

currency markets will never lose faith

in the deutsche mark, the dollar...

I'm exhausted. I will never catch up.

CHLOË: So what's up with Salinas?

-Jackie Joyner-Kersee. -(blows raspberries)

-Elizabeth Bishop. -(blows raspberries)

Brigitte Bardot.

When you look back at a lot of those images now--

like when I look at, like, Chloë Sevigny and stuff--

it's like a lot of those images really kind of hold up

-in a way because... -Yeah.

They... it was a kind of iconic moment.

WOMAN: Would you rather sell beer

or drink beer or make beer?

I'd rather sell the beer.

♪ ♪

-WOMAN: Hello. How are you? -CHLOË: Hi.

CHLOË: I'm okay.

-Who is this? -Do you have a Guy Lyonais that checked in?

WOMAN: Can you spell the last name?

CHLOË: L-Y-O-N-A-I-S.

WOMAN: Excuse me, miss.

Do you know a Guy Lyonais?

Some of the dresses looked a little stewardess, 1973,

serving your drink.

MAN: Stewardess? I thought they were, like,

factory worker, 1973.

Factory worker, stewardess,

-working-class woman... -Yeah.

...but with the svelte body.

It's just working.

♪ ♪

WOMAN: There's Jules Truman. Jules Truman.

-I got it. -Because...

he has to get the show started,

and I can't deal with it anymore.

(indistinct chatter)

("Dirty Boots" by Sonic Youth playing)

This is crazy. This is really...

♪ ♪

-Do you know Guy Lyonais? -Who?

-Guy Lyonais. -No.

♪ ♪

KIM GORDON: This is one of my favorite dresses

that I ever wore onstage.

It's a Marc Jacobs dress,

and you can't tell from this picture

but it's got all these sequins on it and...

it was almost like being a disco ball.

♪ ♪

MARC: Way back, I met this guy named Nick Egan.

Nick Egan was very close to Malcolm McLaren

and, um, Vivienne Westwood

and-- well, particularly Malcolm McLaren--

but fast-forward many years and it's the grunge collection

at Perry Ellis, and, um, Nick Egan calls me.

And I hadn't seen or heard from him in a long time,

and it was like, "Marc, it's Nick."

And I was, like, so happy to hear from him.

And he's like, "Listen, I'm directing, um,

a video for Sonic Youth."

And I was like, "Oh, my God, that's so amazing."

I was like, "I love them. They're great."

And he's like, "Well, I had this idea

which I presented to them and they were really into it."

He was like, "Could we get together

and would you be willing to meet Kim and Thurston?"

I, like... froze.

I was like, "I-I don't know how I can meet Kim."

Like, it was so intimidating somehow.

-SOFIA: Really? Why? -Yeah, I felt...

I-I've always been--

I know it doesn't come across that way--

but I'm-I'm pretty uncomfortable socially,

and I am very intimidated by people I look up to.

You know, it's just, like...

And-and I, I thought they were just so cool.

Like, there was, like, "How am I gonna...

"You know, how am I gonna bring my little, like,

"designer chops to the table

with all that coolness of Kim Gordon?"

("Sugar Kane" by Sonic Youth playing)

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

MARC: I-I sort of felt like

it was in a bit of a weird situation, 'cause I felt like

I was, like, doing that grunge collection,

that it was looked down on

by, like, Courtney and Kurt and people like...

-Oh, as a poser? Or commercializing? -Right.

So, so, I kind of felt like, "I would love to do this,

but I don't want to be the butt of your joke."

Oh, right.

MARC: I mean, it's really interesting,

like, when you look at, like...

There were so many negative reviews and, like...

-SOFIA: Really? -Oh, yeah. And then,

of course, the evidence of how important it was

is still everywhere you look.

It was all... across all genres.

-It was like you had music... -Yeah.

...fashion, art and photography.

So... you know, there's all of those things

were just undergoing this change.

♪ ♪

(music stops)

-MAN: Nice to meet you, Marc. -MARC: What's your name?

-I'm Ian. -Ian. Hi, Ian.

-You wrote your question down? -I did.

-I wrote my question down. -(chuckles): Wow.

(laughter)

Um, so I have... I kind of have two questions.

-Okay. -Um, one of them is--

I'm at Parsons right now--

um, so I was wondering how art school

kind of informed your career

and how you feel like that was valuable to you.

♪ ♪

EMCEE: And next, a trio of fabulous sweaters

by Marc Jacobs.

Hand-knit, of course, supersized shapes

over jersey tops and flannel bottoms.

MARC: I loved my school years.

I mean, I worked really, really hard.

EMCEE: Fabulous patterns, fabulous color.

And that extraordinary trio

has earned Marc Jacobs the Perry Ellis Gold Thimble Award.

MARC: Some of the teachers at Parsons

would tease me and say

that I was very jaded, but I grew up in the city

and I didn't feel like I was jaded.

I just felt like I was experiencing as much as I could,

in and out of school.

And so, um, sometimes school would be frustrating to me

because I would think, this isn't helping

train for real life.

Like, real life is happening outside of school.

(applause)

EMCEE: Don't go away, Marc.

Because Marc Jacobs was also voted

the Student Designer of the Year award.

(applause)

MARC: All the students, um,

were broken into groups by designers.

So you'd have different designers come into the school

and they'd be given, like, ten or-or whatever, eight students,

and I was in the Perry Ellis group.

I remember I showed him my sketches

and he was very impressed.

And he had-- I'd met him before.

I met him when I was 16 at Charivari.

When Charivari opened, he was there with Jed and Patricia,

who were his two assistants who both went to Parsons.

And it was he who told me if I was serious

about being a designer, I should go to Parsons

like his two assistants.

And so I had these illustrations

that were two or three figures on the page.

So the one he chose, he was like, "Well, you can..."

He's like, "I love any one of these.

Which one do you want to do?"

And I was like, "Well, I have to do all three.

It doesn't make sense just to do one."

And he was like, "I don't know how you're going to finish one,

"let alone three, but if that's what you want to do,

go for it, you know."

So I graphed out these sweater designs.

They were, like, these geometric designs,

and I graphed them out on graph paper

'cause I kind of understood the principles of, like, knitting

after watching my grandmother.

She had taught me how to do knit...

You know, she taught me how to knit

and to do needlepoint,

and-and she actually knit the samples.

SOFIA: And the ones that you had at Charivari,

-were those she actually made? -So...

so, so, I showed those...

I mean, I made all the clothes that went with the sweaters,

like, the skirts and the pants and the, the layering pieces,

and I showed them,

and then Barbara Weiser, who was from Charivari,

who I'd become very friendly with,

she saw my work in that show

and she said, "I would love to produce these sweaters."

MARC: And then in order to make fun of the polka dots

and to make them even less serious,

and what I think is... is and always will be

a wonderful image, is the smiley face of the '70s

because people can't help but smile

and sort of laugh when they see it.

It's, it's, uh, you know, it's really a pop icon

and it's something that'll be around for a long time.

And then with the sweaters,

we did opera length... mittens.

These are mittens that are knit

past the elbow, and again, I put little smiley faces

on the palms of the, of the, uh, mitten.

So that was my first commercial venture,

and the label said, "Marc Jacobs for Marc and Barbara."

("Hey! DJ" by The World's Famous Supreme Team playing)

♪ Hit it ♪

♪ Huh ♪

♪ We would like to dedicate this record ♪

♪ To all the DJs in the entire world... ♪

INTERVIEWER: I know you and Marc really go way back.

What is it about that camaraderie?

I mean, why is it so important

to have that support from your peers?

Well, thank God there's Marc.

-I mean, you know... -Yeah.

It-It's like...

I-I think that, um, it just makes

New York much more exciting.

ANNA SUI: One night, it must've been 1981,

I saw him at Danceteria on the dance floor.

After that, I became, like, very aware of Marc

and, like, his style,

and then all of a sudden he was the news

with his Sketchbook collection.

♪ Hey, DJ, just play that song, keep me dancing all night ♪

♪ Thanks, girls, now thank DJs, MCs, cable TV ♪

♪ And radio station personalities ♪

(fading): ♪ For the new tunes we hear today... ♪

(low, indistinct talking)

SOFIA: The grunge collection wasn't the first thing

you did with Perry Ellis, was it?

MARC: No, it was the last.

-Oh, yeah. Did you get fired? -(laughs)

-Did you get fired? -No, that...

-It's a misconception... -Oh.

-...but I really like, I like it. -Yeah.

You know, I like that, like,

-"Oh, I did this collection... -So scandalous.

"...and I got fired for it and it was, like, you know,

and I was so young, and I was fired," and duh, duh...

But it isn't really the truth.

-But I mean, it's-it's the story I like to go with. -Right.

But why was the collection, like, scandalous?

It just seemed like that's what people were... I don't know.

-I was excited that it was... -I guess people were

very easily... easily scandalized.

-I mean, why... -You're rocking the boat.

You know, I don't know why Saint Laurent's, like,

Forties collection was so scandalous either.

SOFIA: Yeah, it was called The Scandal Collection.

I don't get that.

Oh, because it was too close to the war.

MARC: Yeah, but when you look at those clothes,

does it really look like wartime clo--

It didn't-- like, I-I get it.

It's, it was a really great look,

and I think that moment

in the '70s where they embraced the '30s and '40s,

-like... -That's my favorite, too.

MARC: ...the chicest thing.

("A Whiter Shade of Pale" by Ronnie Aldrich playing)

♪ ♪

MARC: Interior-wise,

clothing-wise, like,

I just feel like so much stylization,

like, through the '70s lens,

-that stuff just looks incredible. -SOFIA: I know.

It's the best.

♪ ♪

MARC: I guess, I guess it's like everything.

It's all... relative, right?

So, like, what was happening in fashion

and, like, how women looked, how they were photographed,

what kind of clothes they wore,

you know, like models,

and then all of a sudden there was this shift

with Corinne Day and Juergen Teller, David Sims,

and it was all about, like,

you know, Kate Moss in a pair of panties

with, like, some fairy lights, you know, like...

I think women couldn't become that.

Like, they couldn't take that picture to their hairdresser

and say, like, "I want to look like this."

-Oh, right. -Do you know what I mean?

It was like an unachievable...

beauty.

And then, you know, look at Courtney.

Like, you know, here was this really strong woman,

and, like, she... her hair was fried and bleached,

and, like, her lipstick was all over her face,

and she was wearing a torn dress

that was about five sizes too small.

I think that was part of the scandal, was that

it was just, like, so shocking.

The thing that scares people the most is, like, anything natural.

You know, because they can't aff--

-It's just hard to affect, right? -Oh, right, right.

SOFIA: Tell me about Cindy Sherman.

MARC: She's great.

Cindy's great and so inspiring.

This idea of, like, inventing yourself

and, um, make... creating this character,

this cinematic character, and, like, she made that her art

and then did it so, so perfectly.

It was the Film Stills that were the first body of work

of Cindy's that I knew of and that I fell in love with.

And I think it's almost so cliché

to be a designer and say, like,

"Oh, Cindy Sherman's Film Stills,"

'cause, it's, like, it's a go-to.

You know, it's like saying Audrey Hepburn

in Breakfast at Tiffany's.

It's like, Cindy Sherman in Film Stills.

Let's open this up and just sew it on

-a little more softly. -ANNA: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

-Uh, instead a little nailed down here, right? -Right, right.

Just want to make sure it stays there, okay?

So it's just, like, all the styles that are happening.

So everyone knows what's going on.

SOFIA: Oh, cool.

-This is what they're working on now? -JOSEPH: Yeah.

So, these are, like, the sequin dresses.

I, you know, the different, like...

So I've made the first one, the second one. Like, we want...

SOFIA: Are those gonna get sequins added to them?

No. These are just to check and shape by it.

So is it just toile in that kind of fabric?

Yes, yeah, exactly.

I think the future of fashion,

the future of the world is about not living by rules

that were established 30 years ago

but by doing what's right for you

and respecting the things around you.

And I-I don't mean to get, like, too philosophical,

but I think that I do what I do

and somebody down the block does what they do,

and we can all do our own thing,

and girls can wear what they want

and when they want and how they want.

I'm hoping, in the future, that people stop labeling things

like '60s or '70s or this or that,

because all of these things exist,

and they, to me, they're all classics, you know?

And I think we use natural fabrics

and we make, I make the clothes that I like at this moment.

I show things in a certain way to project a spirit,

but I don't expect people to copy

what I've done on the runway.

I think that if you like a shirt you see on the runway,

then you buy a shirt-- you don't need to buy the whole thing.

And if you like the outfit, you should make it work for you.

You know what I mean? Not everyone is gonna look good

in a long skirt or a short skirt or a sheer skirt.

So you choose what's right for you.

You should never listen to a designer,

especially a man designer.

I mean, I can't wear these clothes.

It doesn't matter.

You know? It's just a fantasy for me.

("Little People (Black City)" by Matthew Dear playing)

SOFIA: When did you start doing Louis Vuitton?

MARC: 1997.

Oh.

And Perry Ellis was over in 1993. Right?

And then there was a year off, which was '94...

So '95 to '97,

I was doing collections with Robert over there.

SOFIA: Oh. And then,

they didn't have clothes at Vuitton before...

-You had to... -No, they never had anything.

Just bags and luggage.

SOFIA: Was it hard to make that different

than what you were doing at Marc? Or, like,

-did you get a different frame of mind? -Yes.

-Or was it really... -Yes and no.

It-it seemed... it seemed...

like, really impossible to make it different,

but then, I think there was one day

where I came to this realization

that as soon as I get on the plane

and go to Paris, it's automatically different.

Like, I could, I could say, like,

I love a black T-shirt in New York,

and I know that what that black T-shirt would look like

and what fabric it would be in.

But if I say I love a black T-shirt, once I go to Paris,

I know that it would be, like, super finished,

it would be this, it would be that.

It would be a different black T-shirt, so

I did, I did come to that realization

that, like, I could love the same thing

but in two places it will be two different things.

("Sept heures du matin" by Jacqueline Taïeb playing)

(song continues with lyrics in French)

(scatting)

WOMAN: I really think about your time at Louis Vuitton

and a lot of those collaborations,

like, with Pharrell, for example,

and I feel like those are people that

are maybe not necessarily thought of within the context

of a luxury brand like that.

So, did those collaborations feel risky at the time,

or how was it experiencing those with them

and bringing them into something like that?

Hmm. Um...

I... honestly didn't...

This is... I didn't really overthink, think them.

I thought it was great that Pharrell

was interested in making sunglasses,

and I was like, "Yeah, come on, let's do it."

Like, I really didn't overthink it.

I have gone from a place at Louis Vuitton

in the beginning where I was trying to be,

you know, a good soldier and please everybody,

and then I just kind of got fed up and it was like,

"You know what? That's not what I'm here for.

I'm here to... to be creative."

So I wanted to work with Stephen Sprouse.

I wanted to work with Pharrell.

I wanted to work with Nigo.

Whatever it was, I just said, "We're going to do it."

What's really interesting is that now

some of those people who were so resistant

now are saying, you know, how great certain things were,

and it's just like, when, you know,

and I roll my eyes in my head, and I just think,

like, "Ugh, they were all arguing against this,

and now they all think it's, like, the greatest thing."

But whatever, that's sometimes the way life is.

Under the tutelage of Marc,

I mean, you know, he-he's an amazing guy.

He's been so gracious and so generous

and-and with-with, uh, his intelligence and his direction.

The greatest taste, greatest designer unto yourself,

greatest taste and people that you have

and would like to collaborate with,

I mean, just like GOAT, GOAT, GOAT level.

-GOAT level. -(Marc scoffs)

-Thanks. -Like-like, people know who Murakami is.

He has a really incredible,

you know, portfolio.

Man, when you gave him that platform

to do what you guys did together,

it was like a magnet for so many of us who were

watching the brand, like...

we're like, "Okay, Vuitton is a different place."

("Kiss and Tell" by Bryan Ferry playing)

MARC: For me, collaborating with artists of different types--

musicians, contemporary artists,

um, actors-- we all share that passion,

which is the idea of creating something, changing something.

And that's very exciting.

Looks like, uh, the kind of new era

because the art become to the exactly the entertainment.

Like, you know, the first time people mention for the

correlation with fashion and art,

but maybe in the near future, they see the, you know,

the kind of, uh, new entertainment.

("Veridis Quo" by Daft Punk playing)

Oh, I thought the show was beautiful and exciting,

and I loved the Richard Prince naughty nurses.

♪ ♪

There was some really great, uh, French punks in the art world.

You know, Duchamp was, like, the ultimate punk rock artist,

and that was part of what I thought about

when I came here.

This is like so much of French culture.

It's, like, in order to, like, in order to change something

and in order to make it cool, like, you have to deface it.

Like, you have to show it no respect.

You know, like, and so,

so that thinking kind of brought me

to the idea of graffiti or defacing this, like, you know,

"You can't touch the monogrammed print.

It's sacred," and duh, duh, duh.

I was like, "Yeah, we should just write all over it."

♪ ♪

SOFIA: Were they like, "No, you can't"?

Yeah, they said, "No, you can't." (laughs)

And then how did you push it through?

Well, then they said, like,

"Well, you can do it, but we're not going to produce it."

And then it kind of blew up,

and then, like, everybody wanted it,

and, like, people were calling and saying, "When can I get it?"

And the stores were take... There were, like, waiting lists

for these bags that they weren't planning on producing.

And, um, and then all the counterfeiters came out

with them, and so, like, they were appearing everywhere

whether they wanted to or not.

("Love to Love You Baby" by Tom Tom Club playing)

♪ I... ♪

GRACE CODDINGTON: I-I think along the same way

as-as he does.

I mean, he always has a romance to his clothes

and things that I've always...

And I'm kind of romantic, too, so...

So I-I go towards that, um...

So I think, uh,

I want to say it was love at first sight,

-but... -(Marc laughs)

♪ I love to love you, baby... ♪

GRACE: And I've seen just about every Marc show

since he began, I guess.

I'm a huge fan, and I-I'm a huge fan for a very good reason

in that I think, you know, he's quite remarkable.

I-I don't know, somehow he always hits it

on the head for me.

SOFIA: I like your ladylike version, too.

MARC: There's a lot of ladylike stuff.

Having dressed Winona for her trial.

(chuckles): Having dressed Lil' Kim for her trial.

You know, and they... and then it's like,

as soon as they need to put on this kind of

image of propriety--

-the Winona ones are close to classics. -(Sofia laughs)

I think I'm gonna always look at it as a costume

-because it-it just feels like it belongs... -Yeah.

...to somebody who's got maturity

-that I don't, or that... -That's so true.

...you know, that belongs to another time.

-"Go to Marc." (chuckles) -Yeah.

"He'll dress you for your trial."

MAN: Courtney Love, is it true that, in 1993,

did you offer Eldon Hoke $50,000

to murder your husband Kurt Cobain?

Oh, God, Richard Lee.

You suck so bad.

("Sugar Water" by Cibo Matto playing)

♪ The velocity of time ♪

♪ Turns her voice into ♪

♪ Sugar water ♪

♪ ♪

(vocalizing)

(speaking French)

-(laughing): Wow. -(others exclaiming)

Look at that.

That is so insane.

That is sick in the head.

(vocalizing in song)

MARC: This is so nuts.

♪ The buildings are changing into coconut trees ♪

♪ Little by little. ♪

(song fades)

MARC: In talking about what we were making with clothes,

let's see it blown up, you know,

Joseph was like, "Let's just see it blown up really big

"and see how we feel about it.

Or let's see it really flat, you know."

And either one of those things would bring the approach

to making the bags in line

with the approach to making the clothes.

There's a leather mock-up that...

I mean, they did a leather prototype from this mock-up.

-Yeah. -It was, uh... And then...

-WOMAN: It went to the factory. -SOFIA: Oh.

WOMAN: Yeah. To get...

-JOSEPH: Made? -Made. -Yeah.

SOFIA: And when does that stuff all show up?

When's that show up? Uh...

-Two days before the show. -WOMAN: Yeah.

SOFIA: Is it always nerve-racking?

-WOMAN: Yes. -(laughter)

Always.

("Reminiscences" by Nigel Hess playing)

♪ ♪

(music ends)

It needs to be like dead Barbie.

(chuckles)

Not pink enough.

JIN: Okay, hers is okay.

MARC: Um, what length are you...

Can you cut the girls nails, or no?

JIN: Just reg... So their-their length.

-Short. Short, yeah. -MAN: Yeah, short.

MARC: Sh-Short, but...

Short like boyish short or girlish short?

-Like...? -JIN: Round short.

-MARC: Round short like that. Okay. -JIN: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-Not, not too square. -MARC: No.

-No, it's too bright. -JIN: No?

It should be a, it should be that but pink.

Oh, hello, Mr. Nimmo.

NIMMO: Um, what do you actually sell here?

VIVIANNE: Um, clothes.

These, uh, cardigans you can see through, sort of woollies.

VIVIENNE: Mm. These restrict your arm movement somewhat.

So you're really caught right down there in bondage.

Yes, but it's... But to move in that

has a lot of style and flair, because as you move,

you can sort of see through some of the...

-No, when you wear this... -Yes.

...you can see sort of, you know,

a body here with bits of lacy stuff in between...

MARC: So I just became

completely, like, obsessed with Vivienne Westwood.

I'd known of her and Malcolm as being the designers of

Sex and Seditionaries and, you know, kind of defining

what punk looked like in London.

I was just fascinated by her and by what she did.

Just thought it was, like, style with substance.

It felt like there was a thought process behind the style,

as opposed to just arbitrarily making some,

you know, weird clothing.

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

MARC: And then I got to meet her and

we bonded over, actually, Yves Saint Laurent.

It was the weirdest thing.

So, she was having a show at Bergdorf Goodman...

and they invited me,

she and Bergdorf invited me to join this dinner

after her show at Bergdorf.

And I was seated next to Vivienne at the table.

And Vivienne, you know, had a reputation for not...

If she didn't like you, she made n--

Like, she had no problem saying, like, "I'm not int--"

Like, she didn't make polite conversation,

and she was not, like, she didn't suffer fools.

SOFIA: Were you nervous to sit next to her?

A little bit, a little bit. Yeah.

I was, I was intimidated and a little nervous.

But we both drank a lot of red wine at this dinner,

and everybody-- eventually,

we were the last two people at the table.

And then we got into this conversation about

a mutual love of Yves Saint Laurent.

I don't know how this happened, but...

And she, I remember she said, like, "Don't tell anybody."

Like, like, it was a secret.

Like, she knew about Saint Laurent

and I knew about Saint Laurent, but don't let

the others know about him, you know, like...

It was a very... it was a very sweet and strange thing.

Like, they've not discovered the genius of this man, but we know.

(low conversations)

MARC: So, this elastic

is only this high.

It's like three... quarter of an inch, or something.

I just... are we gonna want this to feel more flat?

We're getting a, um, the elastic

-in the right size. -Oh, a deeper elastic?

-Okay. -Before the show's happening.

But, but the point, the rib would be...

MARC: I remember one of the discussions was, like,

this fabric that we've used before that was very rounded,

it was, like, a '60s fabric that's bonded to itself

and there's one Italian mill that made it back in the '60s.

And I used it for us and at Vuitton,

but it's very round.

It doesn't collapse.

So when Joseph said, like,

"Maybe me a pair of shorts," it was, like,

it wasn't so much that I was crazy about the idea of shorts.

I just like the idea of thinking about something

I wouldn't typically use that fabric for.

We just laid these fabrics out to decid-- pick colors

-for the sweaters to see what... -SOFIA: Oh.

sweater top would go with what leather short.

So, you can see over...

SOFIA: Are the big... are the big shorts leather?

They are, yeah. They're a bonded leather.

And so we just put a little swatch next to all the colors

so we can kind of predict what, um... the look will be.

MARC: We wanted to make them, like, very naively.

Like, so, we thought, like,

"Oh, it should look like you cut it out of fabric

and you sewed it together yourself."

And so it had no sophistication whatsoever.

I mean, not true sophistication.

We made this pair of shorts with that kind of body,

and we were like, "That looks really good.

We really like it."

Then we liked the idea of it with sexy shoes

from the Trompe L'Oeil collection,

and that was kind of how it started

when we... when we both,

Jospeh and I, had this immediate reaction

to, like, Delilah in this red sweater

with these, like, weird shorts

and then a pair of high heel shoes.

And we're like, "Yeah, that looks like what we want to do."

(crowd chatter)

You know, we thought we would see one body...

-ANNA: Right, right. -...neoprene

and one body double knit, and if we liked the double knit,

-that's what we would do the group. -Right.

-You see? So we were doing it originally... -Right, right.

...to see which one we preferred.

It's tricky, 'cause I need to order the panels.

-Well... -For... So...

But if it's double knit, you wouldn't be ordering

-a panel, would you? -Exactly.

Right now, I'm planning for it to be double knit.

But if you want to...

But only one body you're planning to be double knit.

-WOMAN: Correct. -ANNA: This style...

Right, the zip-up hoodie is gonna be bonded.

Right. And what we were thinking was we would choose...

There would be one thing in the end.

-...and then you would do... -Do one thing.

-Got it. -So that, for us, is a test.

-I see. -Yeah.

I remember, um, I had a Groucho Marx T-shirt

that I was particularly proud of that I wore with suspenders,

and it was pre-Mork & Mindy,

(laughing): but it was very that kind of look.

But, um, yeah, I had a, like, this--

I don't know what in the world or where it came from,

but I was, like, really enamored with this, like,

Groucho Marx T-shirt.

But I was pretty meticulous when it came to clothes.

Like, I folded everything perfectly.

I mean, I folded T-shirts perfectly

and, like, all that stuff,

so I always made sure it was on a good hanger

so the shoulders didn't stretch...

Like, I... I had such a relationship with clothing.

My first outfit that I ever made was a blue,

like, a baby blue gas station attendant jumpsuit.

And that was one of the things that I thought,

like, I saw... I saw, I mean, I must've seen,

'cause I don't know how I would've gotten in my head,

like, "That's a cool thing to wear,"

but there must've been some grown-up kid

wearing, like... and I feel like it had, like,

patches all over it. Like, you know,

like a, like a gas station attendant.

Anyway, I had it in my head that that was, like,

the cool thing and that the only way I was gonna get one

is if I learned how to make it.

So I had, like, a home ec class where we learned to sew,

and that was the first thing I-I sewed.

-JOSEPH: How's it going, over here? It's okay? -Good.

-Yeah, yeah. -Cloth big enough, Kenny?

-I don't know. (laughing) -Is it big enough?

Are you gonna make it work out, Kenny?

Yeah, of course you will.

ANNA: Yeah, I can find some swatches.

MARC: Yeah, I just want to see,

-like, 14 or 18. -Right, right, right.

If it's feasible with the timing, I'm concerned.

'Cause it takes multiple steps,

you know, like, the-the shaping and the...

So we can try, but...

They can put a man on the moon.

LA LA ANTHONY: So, Paris, let me start with you.

I just feel so excited to be here

with the legend Marc Jacobs.

-I just did his campaign, and it was so incredible. -Wow.

And I'm just loving the dress that he made for me tonight.

The dress is absolutely stunning.

Marc, tell us about this dress.

Well, this dress, I'd say...

You know, like, I believe in collaborat--

-Do you want me to hold this? -Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, okay. So, you know, um, collaboration of a sort.

So it was like a thing...

First of all, to dress Paris Hilton

is like how the fuck do you-- Oh, sorry--

how do you do that, right?

So I thought, like, "Well, maybe it would be interesting

"and exciting to see her in a black gown, you know?

'Cause it's not typical for Paris."

So we approached her with the idea,

and then we added the idea of leather,

and she was all game and everything.

And then she had some comments, like, "I need a little sparkle,"

-and, "Could you make this fabric here?" -Right.

And we worked together and made it happen,

and she looks fantastic.

SOFIA: Do you ever feel like, um,

you're the successful designer that as a ki--

your kid self would be... proud of?

Or, like, that... do you ever feel like, "Oh, wow,

I'm living the life that..."

the fantasy life of... of your kid self?

MARC: I think, as a young person,

I believed...

that this could happen,

although I'm not really sure I did.

You know, like, now I think,

like, "Oh, yeah, I was like, I'm totally gonna make it."

I know sometimes, um, before a show had happened,

I-I'd just kind of see, like, as the lineup was formed

and the show was getting ready to start,

and I'd kind of have these, like, outer-body experiences--

I don't really even know what that means--

but, like, I was looking at myself saying, like,

"What are you doing here?"

Like, "You can't... this can't be you having this show."

You know, like, it was just like...

SOFIA: When you see all the models and the clothes

-and they're coming together. -Yeah.

And I'd have it, like, season after season,

-so it wasn't, like... -Oh.

...with time that went away.

It was still that same kind of thing, like,

"I can't believe this is happening for me."

You don't know how to do the Hustle?

No, I do not know how to do hustle bustle.

-You're too young. Come on. -I'm not too young...

Do this. You have to do the slide thing.

Follow me. Don't be so stiff.

-I can't do this. -Relax, relax.

SOFIA: Do you ever feel satisfied by a collection?

Like, that it turns out the way you imagined it?

Or you never know what it's gonna be?

MARC: Um, I feel...

That was...

There was that one show we did with Karole Armitage

right before the, um...

Oh, the dance one?

-Yeah. Yeah. -Right before the pandemic?

(indistinct chatter)

MARC: We're all sitting around,

trying to think, like, "What is this show?"

Like, we're in the Armory and that's all we know.

There has to be something

credible about this.

There needs to be an idea here.

Like, I just don't want, like, a bunch of dancers.

Out of that conversation,

Karole Armitage's name came to mind.

I mean, she was amazing back then.

It was like if Edie Segwick were a punk ballerina.

-Wow. -It was very that.

We started talking about an idea,

and then we auditioned dancers.

We saw hundreds of people.

On the second floor, we created a dance studio,

and she started choreographing this piece,

and they were working around the clock.

And then we had fittings.

It was crazy.

But, see, I-I-- That kind of crazy, I love,

'cause you just feel like...

you feel like something's, you know, happening.

You're making something, and it's exciting and all that.

And then I was blown away by the show.

("Orchestra Rehearsal" by Anton Batagov playing)

And then we said,

"Oh, shit, we have to make all these clothes for the dancers."

We wanted them to be dressed

in a way that was similar enough to the vibe of the show

that you would lose the dancers and the models.

-SOFIA: Yeah, I love that. -You know, that they wouldn't

be, like... them versus us.

After that show,

I had such a feeling that came over me.

I can re-feel it right now.

If this was my last show, I'd be happy with...

Like, I'd be happy, like,

to end my whole career on this show.

Like, it just felt-- I was really super satisfied.

Now, when I go back,

I still find fault with some of the clothes.

-Like, some of the clothes are problematic. -Really?

-But... -Really? Oh, I...

-But the show... -No one...

-...as a thing, -(applause)

as a collaboration, as a thing,

as a seven-minute piece of theater,

I thought, was amazing.

♪ ♪

(cheering, applause)

-(birds chirping) -(vehicle passes)

WOMAN: No problem. No problem.

-MARC: Did you meet Giuseppe? -ROMAN: I did not.

-How many years we worked together? -30.

30 years.

We've been-- He's been working with me on shoes

and making all the shoes for the shows since 30 years.

I make, uh, 105, 106 défilé with you.

-MARC: 106 défilé? Yeah. Wow. -Sì.

-Mm. Why are they so big? -Huh?

Why are they so big? They're men?

-'Cause they're kind of like clown shoes. -Oh.

(chime dings)

("Big Spender" by Joseph Gershenson playing)

♪ ♪

(chime dings)

Hey, mister, can I talk to you for a minute?

Got a cigarette for me, mister, huh?

Hey, mister, do you speak Spanish?

Hey, tiger, you want to dance? A little dance won't hurt you.

Come here, cowboy. I want to tell you something.

Moshi, moshi, ikaga desu-ka, baby?

Ooh, you're so tall.

MARC: So often I like the same images as a starting point.

And the lineup of all the dance hall girls

in "Big Spender," you know, in the number in Sweet Charity,

it's just one of those things, like...

-That you always... -It's just I'll never...

-not be inspired by that image. -(laughs)

So there's one scene, and it's all the different dancers

against the, like, bar.

And you see them all in profile,

and they all have these different wigs

and very powdery skin,

and they just look kind of like broken dolls,

-in a way that only Fosse could do. -Mm. (chuckles)

♪ So let me get right to the point ♪

♪ I don't pop my cork for every guy I see ♪

♪ Hey, big spender... ♪

MARC: And it's so-- it's so right.

Like... like, to make eye contact

with the audience is, like, really disturbs people.

Or to point at them, really. Like, you know, it's really...

And-and I just-- I thought, like...

I've looked at this so many times, and I found it

so cool, but I didn't realize, like,

when you broke it down, how, like...

you know, how smart every little gesture was.

("The Pompeii Club (Rich Man's Frug)" playing)

The precision of every little gesture

created a feeling of discomfort or titillation

or whatever it was.

And he was a really incredible man.

Like, a really-- genius.

-SOFIA: Oh, okay. Mm. -MARC: Yeah.

(indistinct chatter)

MARC: I think she's just trying to loosen up the models

a little bit, get them to do what I want

-but, like, also, like, relax. -Yeah.

-Did you tell her how... their personalities? -Well, yeah.

I said which arms go forward

-and which arms go behind. -Oh.

And which arms are out at the side.

Oh, fun. (chuckles)

(indistinct chatter)

WOMAN: Hi, everyone.

Um, Faye, I'll walk you through so you know it.

It's a simple... simple runway, but there is a beautiful set

that you have to work your way around. So...

14, Diane.

15, Caren.

16, Camille.

17, Luiza.

18, Victoria.

MARC: Um, Delilah's little...

-Yes. Yeah. -Do y... arms out like this?

(stammering) Uh, I think they're...

Uh, they can just be in front like this.

-They can just be in front. -In front of the dress?

Yeah. Yeah.

-JOSEPH: I'd say. -MARC: Okay. Okay.

Let's see. Delilah should keep her arms

a little bit like this, like a ballerina.

She's got, like, the little white tights

and that little minidress, but not like-like that.

But just like... Sh-She does it automatically.

-Okay. Okay. -If you just tell her...

-What I don't want is this. -Here she is.

-Okay. -Delilah, you're gonna be a little bit like this, right?

-Just like a little ballerina... -Perfect.

...cocktail waitress, dance hall girl.

-"Can I take your order?" -Exactly.

I think, over the years, what's happened is the story,

to me, just becomes a-a piece of entertainment.

Like, it's not about the clothes at all.

Like, the clothes may be the main part of the story,

but it's really about,

like, telling a little story in seven minutes and, you know,

and-and that's made out of shapes and colors

and fabrics and...

Even if it's not abstract,

there's just more of an abstract approach to it.

Just like... whatever.

Put this together. Tell the story.

(indistinct chatter)

She's very Mrs. Robinson, this one. (chuckles)

But not.

Like Mrs. Robinson if I were redoing The Graduate. (laughs)

BENJAMIN: You give me a drink, you put on music.

Now you start opening up your personal life to me

-and tell me your husband won't be home for hours. -So?

Mrs. Robinson, you're trying to seduce me.

(laughing)

("Ambient Chopin" by Peter Murray playing)

MARC: I have some very fond memories of watching my mother

do her makeup when she'd go out on a date.

I could sit there for hours and sort of watch her

as she'd choose her clothes and put her makeup on.

She took a piece of black velvet ribbon

and she'd scrape it with a knife

so that she could take the pile from the black velvet

to make the lashes even thicker and clumpier.

I just think the idea of transformation

and creating this person that you want to be

or show the world at any given time is part of human nature

and the joy of being a woman,

man, or-or a person.

(music fades)

MARC: My father...

SOFIA: He was an agent at William Morris.

-MARC: Yeah. -Crazy. In New York?

-MARC: Yeah. Yeah. -Wow. And so he...

That's where he met my mother.

She was, like, doing temp work as a receptionist.

SOFIA: And your dad was an agent for, like, actors and stuff?

He was in Variety.

That was what he did first, which is...

Then he went to TV.

TV. But it was right before he died.

My favorite, favorite memories of my father

were when he would take me to the office.

That was, like, the most...

Like, I met the different agents, and you...

You know, you-- I don't know. I...

Really, the best memories I have.

SOFIA: How old were you when you went to live

-with your grandmother? -So, I'm always a little bit

unclear about this,

'cause I think there was a period of time

where I was living with her

but I was still not living with her full-time.

-You'd just stay with her? -I stayed with her a lot.

And then I don't know whether it was 13 or 14

that I was moved-in full-time.

I had a stepdad who was very... not good

and, um, not a nice person.

And he didn't like her, and she didn't like him.

He forbid me to call her or to see her.

And I was just, like, not having it.

(low chatter)

MARC: With Diane, one of the things I was very sure of

was, like, a very irregular, really exaggerated eyelash.

And so she used, like, black nail polish,

like, so they'd have some shine in them.

But also to make these kind of clumps.

-Okay, so clump. Clump, clump, clump. -Yeah. Yeah.

Lower one's still not so clumpy.

-They're very, like, straight line-y. -Yeah.

(stammers) Is that something you...

you think it looks better like that?

No, it's just 'cause we have...

But then, over time, it starts...

-They un-pinch? -Yeah.

MARC: You can't glue them?

-DIANE: Well, we're using nail polish. -Yeah.

-DIANE: Yeah. -But... 'Cause you know what I mean?

-DIANE: Yes. -It's like one, two, three, four.

-They just look like straight lines. -Yeah. Yeah.

MARC: Whereas here, you get those nice triangles

-and shapes. -Yeah.

I think we have to... Like, here they're good, aren't they?

Better.

-Better. -It's lining on the top,

-and then I brush the underneath into it. -Okay. Okay.

-DIANE: So it's not super defined all over. -Okay.

DIANE: So you just get the emphasis on the top shape.

(low chatter)

-It's like the cut crease, no brow. -Yes. Yeah.

-Cut crease with a brow. And brow. -Yeah. -Yeah.

And then there's no brow at all, which was what we saw yesterday.

-Yeah. -Yes. With nothing on the eye.

(low chatter)

MARC: See, there, the skin and the highlight...

DIANE: Looked great.

-Yeah. Well, I mean... -Because you're getting the...

-Huh? -That is the beauty light, there. -Yeah.

Beauty light.

-That's what we need all over the world. -(chuckles)

In the weeks leading up to the show,

it'd just get faster and faster.

So there's, like, more that has to get done

and patterns get corrected,

and then they have to go out to Italy to be sewn

and come back and whatever.

So it does feel like it all accelerates in the f...

the f-four weeks before the show

and more in the two weeks before the show. But, um...

SOFIA: Though, at this point, you have no idea what...

MARC: I really don't have any idea at all.

("My Love is Better" by Annie playing)

♪ ♪

♪ Coming with a lie, here we go again... ♪

MARC: Very often, especially lately,

you know, there's just a type of sound that I feel

is both dramatic and-and,

like, kind of emotionally stimulating.

And, you know, the Armory

is a very big place, and I-I feel like

the only music that stands up to it are, like,

-really great composers. You know? -Dramatic. Yeah.

(music fades)

("Richter: Spring 1" by Max Richter playing)

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

SOFIA: Do you remember when you first met Marc?

Yes. I think it was at Honmura An's, is my memory.

And I have to ask him if this is true.

It was with Sadie Coles,

and it was when he was interested in art.

We had dinner, and we just, like, hit it off instantly.

I think we just, like, had a conversation about, um,

like Pina Bausch and also, like,

just, like, weird, unusual things

that John and I really liked to talk about.

And he knew about really unusual things

like Rainer Fassbinder.

-Fassbinder. -That's what they had a big connection about.

And it was just interesting about the eye of a designer

who was so particular-- the same eye as John,

but then John does it through paint.

I remember I was, like, cutting up

some drawings of-- I was making copies

of Piranesi-like ruins.

And then he's like, "Do you want to come over

and talk to me about doing set?"

And the show was on February 14, and it was February 1.

And then I'm making all these Puritan girls,

like the Puritans

from, like, America, 16-something.

And he said, "Your carriage is called

"'Puritan's Delight.'

And these girls have been my inspiration."

And he says, "Can you bring in

what you're working on by tomorrow?"

And so I-I think I stayed up all night doing all this stuff.

I brought it in as a little paper set,

and he said, "It's fantastic.

And just do whatever she says. Make it happen."

I just think you need air.

-We want to see the neck? -Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Probably want this to be a little...

Yeah, I just, I just want to see some space,

especially 'cause you're gonna have these collars in here,

and-and I just think it looks more beautiful.

-("Ashes to Ashes" by Warpaint) -♪ In such an early song ♪

♪ I've heard a rumor from ground control... ♪

MARC: But it is crazy, when you think of the amount of work

and the amount of people to make something

-that's seen only once. -Yeah, for seven minutes.

-Yeah. -Ever.

♪ I'm happy... ♪

MARC: I had seen this picture of, um, some dolls

that Taboo had made, and it was of the Supremes.

And they were just so naively done, which was so sweet.

And then one of my favorite videos of the Supremes

is this appearance that--

they were on The Tennessee Ernie Ford show,

and it's Diana singing "Reflections,"

and it's the three of them just in these, like, spangly dresses.

And I just always have been mesmerized by that.

♪ Crying reflects a hurt I can't control ♪

♪ 'Cause although you're gone ♪

♪ I keep holding on ♪

♪ To the happy times ♪

♪ Ooh, when you were mine ♪

♪ As I peer through the window of lost time ♪

♪ Looking over my yesterday ♪

♪ And all the love I gave all in vain ♪

♪ All the love ♪

♪ All the love that I've wasted... ♪

SOFIA: I love that the mirrors on the bags

-come from the Supremes. -Yeah, like...

I would never have put that together.

I mean, they weren't mirrored. They were sequined.

-But it's still, like... it... -Yeah.

MARC: Just if, like, if you had to do it yourself.

("Tigerlily" by La Roux playing)

All these girls are girls who like boys,

and I think, like, you know, I'm not really into,

like, accessories at the moment, like, jewelry.

So I said, "Oh, we'll just make the boys the accessories."

("Tigerlily" continues playing)

Happy birthday, Katie! I love you!

♪ Tonight out on the streets I'm gonna follow you ♪

♪ And tell you all about a scene that you would kill for ♪

♪ You're gonna love what's running right in front of you ♪

♪ But you won't see it by the light of the sun. ♪

(song ends)

♪ ♪

(crowd chatter)

It's showtime.

We are very not linear, in terms of the way we work.

And it's kind of like we're always looking

for something that we're interested in

or excited by, right?

And then you can't kind of find inspiration that way.

You kind of have to be doing something

and you have, like, some kind of connection to it.

And I don't remember at what point in the process,

but we had been talking about all these different things--

about scale, about size--

and then something came up somewhere,

and I saw that picture

of the table at the Broad

that I had seen and experienced many times.

And, um, so then I looked up Robert Therrien,

and I was just like, "Oh, well, this folding table and chairs

just sums it up for me."

And I kind of felt very much this kindred spirit,

'cause everyday things, whatever "everyday"

means to you, is like the wonder of the inspiration

you find in them,

the way he thinks, how he gets to where he's going.

I just feel like that feels really like what we're doing.

(indistinct chatter)

-What you doing? Came undone? -Yeah.

So should we get Joseph or some-somebody?

(Wali speaking indistinctly)

Yeah. Okay, so we don't want that to happen

when you've got the jacket on.

So can we get-- Somebody find me Joseph or-- Joseph?

Joseph, Wali's top keeps opening

-when she puts the jacket on. -Oh, really? All right.

-Yeah, the snaps. -Oh, okay.

So I think if you pin it or whatever you want to do.

-Yeah, yeah. -But when she...

As soon as she does this.

(Joseph speaks indistinctly)

-We've only got ten minutes. -Okay, then I'll...

-But your nail polish still looks good. -Yeah.

-Right? -Yeah.

-I was just talking... -Yeah, that's it.

-Like that. -MARC: Got it.

SOFIA: But do you always get nervous

right before, even though you've done this a million times?

Yeah. I do, and I don't...

I don't know. It's like...

Yeah, I get really nervous.

It's, like, such a physical thing.

-SOFIA: I can feel it for you. -I think it's just very...

I don't know. Maybe...

Is it different for you? Like, I feel...

I feel very fright...

Like, I-I mean, obviously, I work to show the work.

-Yeah. -But then showing the work

is a very frightening thing.

How many minutes left?

We have to start in four minutes, people!

Literally four minutes!

I'm ready. Like...

but the girls aren't quite ready.

So when the girls are ready,

then I'm like, "Oh, my God, do we really have to wait

for the audience? Do we really?"

-Yeah. Yeah. -You know, I want to get them dressed.

I want to get going.

And I've been, like, super impatient on a couple of shows

where, you know, I was insisting with KCD backstage,

like, "I don't care if it's five-of."

-Oh. -And they're like, "No, you've got to, like,

at least wait till 6:00." You know.

(crowd chatter)

You have two minutes.

Two minutes.

-It's one minute, Duffy. You gonna be okay? -Yeah.

Okay. It's 6:00. We're starting the show.

-It's 6:00. We're starting the show. -Making the announcement.

-Yeah, we're making the announcement now. -Okay.

(soft chatter)

We are now late!

-Can we please start the show? -Yes.

-Yes. Now. -Starting the show fully.

-Now. Now. -Starting the show. Everyone...

MARC: We're starting the show now.

("Metamorphosis One" by Philip Glass playing)

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

Standing by. Um...

In three, two, one.

(cheering, applause)

(cheering, applause fades)

(birds chirping)

(giggles)

(chuckles)

SOFIA: How's the morning after the show?

Um... um, it's okay.

It's okay. I'm j-- I'm...

I'm very tired.

Do you feel like there's some catharsis

or that you work out things from... childhood wounds

in being able to make these imaginary worlds or...?

MARC: Yeah, so when I was much younger

and... like, my family fell apart--

you know, my dad died and all this stuff--

I think I...

My solution, you know,

to all this chaos and mental illness and all this stuff

was, like, go to your room and make your room

into this safe place and-- where you can express yourself

and you can feel comfortable and you can feel happy, you know.

And I do think-- I do think that that was like...

It-it may not be...

Like, that, that felt like the beginning

of my understanding of how...

I have, like... my hiding place,

but I also have my world, and then I also have

that place where I can make something.

And maybe what came after was like, okay, I can make something

and I want to share it.

SOFIA: I remember you used to really crash.

-Yeah. -'Cause you used to be really down,

I feel like, after a show.

Well, the down thing will happen.

Like, um, my friend Lana,

she-she calls it "post-art-done."

-Oh, yeah. -As opposed to "postpartum."

I always say it's postpartum, but that is "post-art-done."

-Yeah. -So she changed it.

'Cause she's like, after she makes a movie,

she's like, "There's this... such excitement,"

but then, like-- and you can't really explain it--

but I guess it's like giving birth, in a sense.

There's, like, this comedown.

And no matter how you feel about the work you've done,

you just can't avoid it, it's gonna happen.

MARC: Girls, it looks amazing.

You look gorgeous. It's really great.

I started obsessing over, like, a certain mistake yesterday

or-or something I didn't like yesterday,

and then I was like, "Just let it go, let it go."

But they'll catch up to me, you know,

as I see more photos

or as I read reviews or...

I have a little distance, you know?

Then I'll start, like, getting...

I guess, down and a bit, like, agitated.

My shrink always says, like, "Obsessing over something

"that happened a week ago isn't gonna change

what happened a week ago." You know?

But I somehow believe that if I obsess over it long enough,

like, it will fix itself, you know.

And of course I don't really believe it.

But then I think, "History tells me I said that every time."

That's the thing about, like, joy in work,

is that, if you can tap into those few moments

or those few days or the, you know, whatever it is,

then-then you kind of... want to do it again.

You know?

♪ Ten decisions shape your life ♪

♪ You'll be aware of five about ♪

♪ Seven ways to go through school ♪

♪ Either you're noticed or left out ♪

♪ Seven ways to get ahead ♪

♪ Seven reasons to drop out ♪

♪ When I said, "I can see me in your eyes" ♪

♪ You said, "I can see you in my bed" ♪

♪ That's not just friendship, that's romance, too ♪

♪ You like music we can dance to ♪

♪ Sit me down ♪

♪ Shut me up ♪

♪ I'll calm down ♪

♪ And I'll get along with you. ♪

(song ends)

-("Line Up" by Elastica playing) -(grunting in song)

♪ Drivel Head wears her glad rags ♪

♪ She's got her keys, money and fags ♪

♪ I know that her mind is made up ♪

♪ To get rocked ♪

♪ Drivel Head needs a new man ♪

♪ As only a drivel head can ♪

♪ He's a hormonal nightmare ♪

♪ So beware ♪

♪ Another victim of line up in line ♪

♪ Line up in line is all I remember ♪

(grunting)

♪ Oh, how their favors change ♪

♪ You could have been kinder ♪

♪ Yes, yes, line up in line ♪

♪ Line up in line is all I remember ♪

♪ Oh, how their favors change ♪

♪ You could have been mine, uh ♪

(grunting)

♪ Drivel Head knows all the stars ♪

♪ Loves to suck their shining guitars ♪

♪ They've all been right up her stairs ♪

♪ Do you care? ♪

♪ No. ♪

(song ends)

♪ ♪

(music fades)