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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,600 To tell the story of the Second World War 2 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,160 in 26 hours of film on television, 3 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,960 each film to be an essay on an aspect of the war, 4 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,240 taking in, as well as the fighting, 5 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,680 the social and political experience of the countries involved; 6 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:43,520 to present Britain's war 7 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:49,200 and to compare and contrast it with the effort and suffering of other nations; 8 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,000 to appeal, if we could, to different audiences of different age groups, 9 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,640 presenting events to those who experienced them 10 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:57,840 in, if possible, a new light, 11 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,280 and to their children, 12 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:04,360 without the crusty covering of another generation's nostalgia; 13 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:10,080 to omit nothing of supreme consequence, but to leave out a very great deal, 14 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,880 rather than try to cram everything into the limited airtime available; 15 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:17,760 to produce programmes worth watching 16 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:23,120 which might also help us understand the times in which we live: 17 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,520 that's what I and my colleagues at Thames Television set out to achieve 18 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,600 in The World at War. 19 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,600 The series has now been sold and seen all over the world, 20 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,400 and in the United States, since it was finished, 21 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:38,720 it's never been off the screen. 22 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,760 It's the making of that series that I'm going to tell you about now. 23 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,040 I was seven years old in 1939, 24 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,120 and most of the people who worked with me on The World at War 25 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:50,240 were younger than I, 26 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,480 born, like more than three-quarters of all Germans and Japanese alive today, 27 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,600 after the war began or even since it ended. 28 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,320 Not many of us knew all that much about the war. 29 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:03,960 Distanced by a generation, 30 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,800 we were not interested in just another telling 31 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,760 of our parents' old soldiers' tales. 32 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,640 Old men forget, particularly when it hurts to remember. 33 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,880 And many in Britain had happy memories of the war. 34 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:23,760 They remembered the excitement, the danger, the comradeship, the fun. 35 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:31,080 But Britain was bombed, not invaded, not occupied, not fought over. 36 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:36,400 Britain's war was not Poland's war and not Russia's war. 37 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:41,280 The Desert Rats and the Africa Corps shared a common experience. 38 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:45,520 Theirs was a clean war; there were no civilians in the way. 39 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,360 Theirs was a very different war 40 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,800 from that of Poles or Yugoslavs or Ukrainians, 41 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,440 who met and suffered under the Gestapo and the SS. 42 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:58,240 Most of us were British on the production team, 43 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:03,080 but we would try to do justice to others' grimmer experience. 44 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,200 There was bravery, heroism, glory, even, in it. 45 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,760 But the Second World War caused untold suffering 46 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,640 and cost many millions of lives. 47 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,840 It was important that the series should begin as we meant it to go on, 48 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:21,040 and The World at War began like this. 49 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:27,920 (narrator) Down this road on a summer day in 1944, the soldiers came. 50 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,400 Nobody lives here now. 51 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,320 They stayed only a few hours. 52 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:42,640 When they had gone, 53 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:47,480 a community which had lived for a thousand years, was dead. 54 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,880 This is Oradour-sur-Glane in France. 55 00:03:56,120 --> 00:04:01,160 The day the soldiers came the people were gathered together. 56 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,760 The men were taken to garages and barns, 57 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,720 the women and children were led down this road, 58 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,240 and they were driven into this church. 59 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,920 Here, they heard the firing as their men were shot. 60 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,560 Then they were killed, too. 61 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,000 A few weeks later many of those who had done the killing 62 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,400 were themselves dead in battle. 63 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,840 They never rebuilt Oradour. Its ruins are a memorial. 64 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:46,280 Its martyrdom stands for thousand upon thousand of other martyrdoms 65 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,160 in Poland, in Russia, 66 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,360 in Burma, in China, 67 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,160 in a world at war. 68 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:54,240 We started work in April 1971. The time was right. 69 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,960 Some vital witnesses were already dead when we started 70 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,160 and all were getting older. 71 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,400 Often our researchers were told, “If only you'd called last week.” 72 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,640 The fellow they were looking for had died only the other day. 73 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,560 The first problem would be what to leave out. 74 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:16,120 There simply couldn't, wouldn't be room, even in 26 hours of television, 75 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,880 to do justice to everyone. 76 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:20,680 I'm not a military historian. 77 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,200 I asked our historical adviser, Dr Noble Frankland, 78 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:26,880 then director of the Imperial War Museum, 79 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,800 to write down for me on one sheet of paper, 80 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:31,560 he actually used an envelope, 81 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:36,320 not more than 15 decisive campaigns which I mustn't omit. 82 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:43,720 I wanted each film that we made to tell only one story, as all good films do. 83 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,520 And I asked for a list of only 15 military subjects 84 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:51,280 because I had different plans for the other dozen or so programmes. 85 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,000 There would be one programme on the causes of the war. 86 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,960 There would be one to deal with the results. 87 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,440 There would be programmes on the war economy, the politics, the morale 88 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,760 of each of the major five combatants: 89 00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:09,840 America, Britain, Germany, Japan, Soviet Russia. 90 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,160 The Second World War was total war. 91 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:18,280 In it, civilians were in the front line in the factories and under the bombs. 92 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:23,240 And they suffered as many casualties as did the men and women in uniform. 93 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,840 In the First World War, the point is AJP Taylor's, 94 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,800 the news that a relative had been killed came in the telegram from the front, 95 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,720 telling a wife that she was widowed. 96 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,400 In the Second World War, the news quite often went the other way. 97 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,200 The British soldier in Africa, in Italy and in France, 98 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,640 would learn in a letter from home 99 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,920 that his parents or his wife had been killed in the Blitz on London, 100 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,280 on Coventry, on Plymouth. 101 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,280 And many a German fighting man on the Eastern Front, say, 102 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,960 must have heard that he'd lost his family 103 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,960 in the fires of Hamburg, Cologne and Dresden, 104 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,880 and perhaps fought on all the harder for it. 105 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,720 There would be a programme on occupied Europe. 106 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,920 The moral choices faced by those who live under tyranny 107 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,800 have a compelling fascination for me and I think for us all. 108 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,960 “What would I have done?” we ask ourselves. 109 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,680 “Raised my voice? Acted?” 110 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:31,000 “Risked my life? Risked my family's life?” 111 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,760 “Stayed silent? Done nothing?” 112 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,880 “Collaborated, perhaps?” 113 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:40,440 In Nazi-occupied Europe, everyone had to choose. 114 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,240 There would be a programme on what the Nazi doctrine of racial supremacy 115 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:45,560 did to the Jews. 116 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,480 This is not a military subject, it doesn't appear in military histories, 117 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:51,560 but I couldn't leave it out. 118 00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:57,840 Our historical adviser made a list of military musts on one sheet of paper. 119 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,920 It read: The German attack on Poland. 120 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,720 The German attack in the West, leading to the fall of France. 121 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,000 The battle for Britain. 122 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,920 The German invasion of Russia. 123 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:15,600 Pearl Harbor and the Japanese sweep to Singapore. 124 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:19,200 The battle of the Atlantic: war against the U-Boat. 125 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,600 The war in the western desert. 126 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:25,960 Stalingrad: the first massive German defeat. 127 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,240 The Allied air assault on Germany. 128 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:34,120 Russia's great victories of 1943, particularly at Kursk, 129 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,720 the biggest tank battle in history. 130 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,200 It was clear, by the way, that one object of the series 131 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,920 must be to try to help people to be aware 132 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,280 of the importance of the Eastern Front. 133 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,080 The vast Russian and then the vast German losses there. 134 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,880 Battles in which millions fought on either side. 135 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:57,760 Two-thirds of all Germans who fought fought on the Eastern Front. 136 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,200 The campaign in Italy. 137 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:05,360 The Allied invasion of Europe in Normandy in June 1944. 138 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:10,040 The land assault on Germany itself in the battle for Berlin. 139 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,320 Naval air war in the Pacific. 140 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:17,480 American industrial might, as well as Russian manpower, 141 00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:22,920 assured victory in both wars in Europe and in Asia. 142 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,160 The dropping of the atomic bomb. 143 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:31,160 And each of these great themes would have only one hour. 144 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,280 Burma squeezed in because it had been forgotten 145 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,920 and because it looked different. The film was wet with monsoon. 146 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,240 But there was no room for Abyssinia or Syria or Dakar, 147 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,720 and only a mention of Dieppe and of the Arctic convoys 148 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:48,640 and nothing on Yugoslavia, 149 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:54,920 where in civil war and in resistance, 1.5 million lost their lives. 150 00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:00,040 And there'd be nothing on the fate of Europe's gypsies, all but exterminated, 151 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,080 and no film on Poland, 152 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:07,520 though according to some estimates one in three Poles died. 153 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,280 We wouldn't be able to deal with the experiences 154 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,840 of particular regiments or divisions, 155 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,520 though when we'd finished, lots of folk wrote in 156 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,400 to tell us that they'd served in the best damn flying squadron 157 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:23,200 or fighting regiment in World War II. 158 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,320 Our style would be simple. 159 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,320 No narration to camera, 160 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:33,240 no authority to fix the viewer with his eye, as I am looking at you now. 161 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:38,000 You can do without the piece to camera in handling 20th-century history 162 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,840 when there are plenty of visual documents and eye witnesses available. 163 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,520 You can't deal so easily with earlier centuries. 164 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,440 Nor would we venture into the dangerous territory of reconstruction. 165 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:55,280 If there were no visual records of an event, we would look for eye witnesses. 166 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,760 If there were none adequate to tell the story for television, 167 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,600 or if we could find no other honest way to tell it, 168 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:04,680 we might have to leave the subject matter out. 169 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,280 Resistance in Europe suffered as a subject. 170 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,880 There's no film of it and we hardly touched it. 171 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:11,960 Sea battles suffered also. 172 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,080 There's very little film of battles at sea 173 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:18,760 and the same goes for battles fought at night. 174 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,440 We used diagrams, therefore, and graphics 175 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,480 to show what a U-boat assault on a convoy was like. 176 00:12:25,560 --> 00:12:30,560 But our rule was, don't invent, don't reconstruct, 177 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,400 don't use material that you know to have been reconstructed 178 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,280 unless you absolutely have to, 179 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:42,000 and don't do so even then without saying that you're going to. 180 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,680 When the Russian army closed the ring round Von Paulus 181 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,480 and the German 6th Army at Stalingrad, 182 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:54,560 newsreel film shows two masses of troops advancing towards each other 183 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:59,200 in long, long Eisensteinian lines across the snow, 184 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:04,120 meeting to embrace with warm bear hugs just opposite, would you believe, 185 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,480 the Soviet newsreel's camera position. 186 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,600 We made the point when we used the film. For our film on the Western Desert, 187 00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:21,000 we didn't use the bits of desert victory that were shot at Pinewood. 188 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,960 We used to look very suspiciously at, but we sometimes did use, 189 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,840 battle scenes where the camera is suspiciously steady 190 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:34,920 or is apparently quite safe in a supposedly dangerously exposed position. 191 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:39,040 We met some Sherwood Foresters who fought from El Alamein to Tunis 192 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,120 and from Anzio to Rome. 193 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,800 One of their most frightening encounters though was with Pathé Gazette. 194 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,760 We got pulled out the… well, we were out of the line at the time. 195 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,720 Of course, this… I don't know what officer it was, 196 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,600 but he detailed so many of us to go to a certain place in this truck. 197 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:00,880 And when we got there, he gave us… 198 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,120 “Right,” he said, “put these on.” 199 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,240 German green uniforms and Jerry helmets. 200 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,080 I thought, “What the hell…?” 201 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,880 “What are they going to do, drop us back over German lines or summat?” 202 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,560 Anyway, he said, “No, you're alright,” he says. 203 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,560 “Here you are, take these.” He gave us a box of fireworks… 204 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,440 These crackers. Firecrackers, we used to call them. 205 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:31,160 “Go in that wood,” he says, “and act as Germans,” he says. 206 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,080 “And such and such platoon will come and capture you.” 207 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,880 “When you see them coming, throw these crackers.” 208 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:42,720 So when we saw them coming, we were throwing crackers and firing blanks. 209 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,160 Of course the English platoon came and captured us 210 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,280 and we had to go out in this wood looking frightened to death 211 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:50,840 with our hands up. 212 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:56,400 And this fellow was up on this truck with his camera. Pathé Gazette. 213 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:00,040 That was British news. That was in the cinema, that was, at home. 214 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,840 The reconstruction of history on film 215 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,800 is not only, unless it's clearly labelled, deceptive in itself, 216 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,720 it also devalues authentic material used alongside it. 217 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,160 There was plenty of film. 218 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,040 The Imperial War Museum told us that they had 20 million feet. 219 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,560 They hoped we'd look at it all and tell them what was in it. 220 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,880 Of course we never had time to do so. Partly because there was so much 221 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,520 and partly because viewing films stored in vaults 222 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:33,800 was then a slow, cumbersome, but in the end productive, process. 223 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,560 The camera cannot lie. 224 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,760 But those who use film, especially in wartime, 225 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,000 are no more honest than the rest of us. 226 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,760 The newsreels of the Second World War were shot by brave cameramen 227 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:54,000 and they used bulky equipment: 35mm cameras, often on tripods. 228 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,560 Many war cameramen lost their lives, 229 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:02,480 but it's important to remember that the material which they bravely filmed 230 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,800 was edited and censored in the editing 231 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,800 to make the points the government wanted made. 232 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:15,880 Propaganda to cheer the home front, seduce the neutrals, frighten the enemy. 233 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,760 Look now at two examples of newsreel, 234 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,120 one British, one German, in the summer of 1940. 235 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:24,920 France has fallen. 236 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,160 ♪ Wenn die Soldaten durch die Stadt marschieren 237 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,360 ♪ Öffnen die Mädchen 238 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,200 ♪ Die Fenster und die Türen 239 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,720 ♪ Ei warum? Ei darum 240 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,080 ♪ Ei bloß wegen dem Schingderassa, Bumderassasa 241 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,000 ♪ Ei bloß wegen dem Schingderassa, Bumderassasa… 242 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,840 (newsreel) Hitler in July 1940, returning from France in triumph, 243 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,120 stood at the pinnacle of his power. 244 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:52,920 ♪ Die Mädchen ach so gerne 245 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,000 ♪ Ei warum? Ei darum 246 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:05,200 ♪ Ei bloß wegen dem Schingderassa, Bumderassasa 247 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,720 The speed and sureness of his victories had astonished even his generals. 248 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,480 Their doubts had been answered, their opposition could be discounted. 249 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:31,400 It was now that Hitler confided to them it would be the Russians' turn next. 250 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,560 The British were ready for invasion. 251 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,880 The one-time foot-sloggers have turned kick-starter pushers. 252 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,520 Shanks's pony has given way to a spanking motorbike. 253 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,800 The left-right, left-right blokes have both feet off the ground. 254 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,480 They're part of Britain's mighty mobile mounties, 255 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,760 all keen to welcome Adolf when he drops in for a cup of tea and a cream bun. 256 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,440 A battalion of infantry on wheels is on exercise. 257 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,800 A swift-moving striking force that will do the enemy a bit of no good. 258 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,080 They learn to take the rough with the smooth 259 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,160 under conditions they might meet with on active service. 260 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,840 Up and down they go, but unlike the Hun they're always on the level. 261 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,320 “Always on the level.” “A cup of tea and a cream bun.” 262 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:26,160 I don't know what those commentaries did to the enemy, but they frighten me. 263 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,920 Although we added a commentary to the German film 264 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,120 to integrate it into our narrative, 265 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:35,120 you can detect very clearly, I think, the intention of each of those. 266 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,880 The Germans showing Hitler triumphant. 267 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,600 The German nation, as we know now, overconfident. 268 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,240 The British whistling absurdly to keep their courage up. 269 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,600 There wasn't a tank, Anthony Eden told us, in the southeast corner of England. 270 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,800 And the contrast of style is compelling. 271 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,840 Nazi Germany had perfected the art of film as propaganda, 272 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,400 as a political instrument to bind the German people to their leader. 273 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,760 All the lavish skills of camera and of editing 274 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:09,200 that went into Triumph of the Will went into that. 275 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,480 We would use newsreels. Without them there'd be no television series. 276 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,000 But we'd try to use them critically, 277 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:22,000 bearing in mind that the war that the newsreels show is an acceptable war. 278 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,760 They don't show blood and wounds 279 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:29,680 and they don't bring us the cries of pain or the stink of corpses. 280 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,160 Most newsreels are taken by winning armies. 281 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:38,040 They show the victories, but they don't show the cost. 282 00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:41,480 The newsreels of the Second World War, as a matter of fact, 283 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:46,080 show much more preparation for battle than actual battle. 284 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,520 They show our boys in victory, their boys in defeat. 285 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,040 Lots of prisoners, very few captors. 286 00:19:54,120 --> 00:20:00,760 They show the dealing of death: guns firing, planes diving, bombs dropping. 287 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,520 Newsreels do not show the dead or dying. 288 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,440 The censors mostly cut them out. 289 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,000 More honest than the cut newsreel are the cameraman's rushes, 290 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:13,560 if you can find them. 291 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,360 These are the raw material from which the film editor under supervision 292 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,440 will hack out a short, crisp, punchy story 293 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,920 with effects, music and commentary added, 294 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,320 which will eventually reach the screen. 295 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,640 Most cameramen's rushes are destroyed, but some survive. 296 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,000 After the Germans in their years of victory, 297 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,240 the best pictures of the Second World War 298 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:38,000 were taken by the other great nation with an advanced film culture, 299 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,600 the United States. 300 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,840 Here are the marines in February 1945 at Iwo Jima. 301 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,160 Have you noticed? 302 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,000 It's silent. 303 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,760 I suppose a radio journalist might have used a microphone on this beach, 304 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,480 but the cameraman could get by perfectly without. 305 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,200 Because by the time that anybody had made any use of it, 306 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:28,120 a commentary and music, perhaps fairly strident music, would have been added. 307 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,480 It's all a bit of a shambles, isn't it? 308 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:52,800 It's filmed in colour. 309 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,880 The Americans, particularly in the last 18 months or so of the war, 310 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,520 were filming pretty well everything in colour. 311 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,040 Look… 312 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:40,800 Shelling there, but no bang. 313 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,560 The bang goes on later. 314 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,640 In our work we tried to keep something of the roughness, 315 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,840 the repetitions of this footage 316 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,840 by matching it to the voices of those that were there 317 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,200 and who remembered what chaos and what hell it had been. 318 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,880 You don't see rushes on television very often. 319 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,840 Had we found more film rushes, 320 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,200 we would have presented, particularly in earlier episodes, 321 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,000 a less tidy war. 322 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,560 When you watch The World at War, you're watching not my work 323 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,840 but the combined skills of many of us, about 50, 324 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,120 who worked together for three years. 325 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,360 Writers, producers, researchers, graphic artists, 326 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,120 film editors, sound editors and a dubbing mixer. 327 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,280 Here's what were once rushes when that lot had finished with them. 328 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:33,480 Any sound that you'll hear on this next clip, we added. 329 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,000 It's June 1944 in the Marianas 330 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,400 and this is our version of the great naval air battle of the Philippine Sea. 331 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,600 The first shot is a phoney. 332 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:20,160 Many Japanese pilots were comparative novices with no battle experience. 333 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,520 Their aircraft were poorly armoured. 334 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,800 For the American flyers swooping down on their opponents, 335 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,760 it was as easy as shooting turkeys. 336 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:57,840 After the first encounter, all but one of the American planes returned. 337 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,720 Rearmed and refuelled, the Americans were ready for the next Japanese move. 338 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,440 There were two more onslaughts to be faced. 339 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,200 However, the Americans had nearly 900 carrier planes, 340 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,080 twice the number of the Japanese. 341 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:45,280 The Marianas turkey shoot lasted just eight hours. 342 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:51,800 In one day, Japanese naval air power was virtually destroyed. 343 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:56,680 The original force of 430 planes was reduced to about 100. 344 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,800 American losses were comparatively light. 345 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,960 Pilots mattered more than machines. 346 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,640 I hope you can hear the contrast between that film as it ended up on the screen 347 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,720 and the rushes with which we started, 348 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,360 even if we started with newsreels from which we stripped their sound 349 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,200 before we got to work again. 350 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:01,280 Sometimes the exception: film that needed no polishing, no cutting. 351 00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:04,680 Film that went in raw, as rushes. 352 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,840 This next clip was used in a film I made at the end of the series 353 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:10,160 called Remember. 354 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,400 Our film researcher Raye Farr found it in some cans 355 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,280 in a corner in the archive at Koblenz that no one else had looked at. 356 00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:20,720 It's film taken by a German cameraman in Russia 357 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,000 not at the front, but filming quietly behind the German lines. 358 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,280 Again, there's no sound on it. 359 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,520 We think that this remarkable cameraman 360 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,000 had licence to shoot just what interested him. 361 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,720 Perhaps one day he was going to try to make a documentary out of it. 362 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,040 What seems to be happening 363 00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:56,480 is that a couple of soldiers and a corporal in this village 364 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,960 are separating men from women and children, dividing up families. 365 00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:15,800 Either the men or perhaps the women 366 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,880 are being selected for forced labour, I think. 367 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,760 Anyway, they have a pretty good idea 368 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,440 that they may never see each other again. 369 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,200 If you watch carefully in a moment, you can see a dog. 370 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,600 We always used to look out for dogs in rushes. 371 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,440 There's the dog. Here it comes. No barking. 372 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:31,200 Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill were dead and not available for interview. 373 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:36,160 The field marshals had published their memoirs and had little left to say. 374 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,760 The witnesses that we sought would be of a lower rank. 375 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,680 For their personal experiences, 376 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,920 we were interested in the simple serving man and woman and in the civilian. 377 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,280 They could tell us what had happened to them. 378 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,440 For our narrative, we needed the witness to great events. 379 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,880 The man at the commander's elbow, 380 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,000 the fellow in the statesman's private office. 381 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,880 Our researchers turned up quite a list. 382 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,240 Churchill's private secretary, Roosevelt's and Truman's aides, 383 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,360 members of Hirohito's cabinet, Eisenhower's mistress, 384 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,360 Hitler's typist, Himmler's adjutant. 385 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,120 Some historians doubt television's ability 386 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,240 to handle such witnesses critically as source material. 387 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,240 Well, you have to do the best you can 388 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,880 and check out what your witnesses say against what other people have to say. 389 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,040 Listen to the late John McCloy. 390 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,840 America is about to defeat Japan. 391 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,680 We gathered up our papers and started to go out, 392 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,640 and Mr Truman spotted me and said: 393 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:43,560 “Mr McCloy, nobody gets out of this room without voting or expressing himself— 394 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:44,920 everybody else has.” 395 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,160 “Do you think I have any other alternative?” 396 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,320 I looked over at Colonel Stimson— 397 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,920 he liked to be called Colonel, 398 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,400 he'd been colonel of a regiment in World War I, rather than Secretary. 399 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,200 I looked over at Stimson and he nodded, he said, “Go ahead.” 400 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,400 So I started in, and I said that I thought 401 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,800 we ought to have our heads examined 402 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:12,160 if we didn't begin to think in terms of a political culmination of the war 403 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,400 rather than a military one. 404 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,200 And I said I'd give them some terms. 405 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,640 I'd send a message over to them, I'd spell out the terms. 406 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,880 And Mr Truman said, “Well, what are your terms? What would you do?” 407 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,760 I hadn't prepared for the actual dictation of the surrender terms, 408 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,640 but I said, “In the first place, I'd say you can have the mikado, 409 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,000 but he's got to be a constitutional monarch— 410 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,080 you've got to have a representative form of government.” 411 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:46,240 “You can have access to, but not control over, foreign raw materials 412 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,840 so you can have a viable economy.” And I spelled it out as best I could. 413 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,640 And I'd say, “Besides that, we've got a new force, 414 00:31:52,720 --> 00:32:00,640 and it's in the form of a new type of energy that will revolutionise warfare, 415 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,120 destructive beyond any contemplation.” I said I'd mention the bomb. 416 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:10,000 Well, mentioning the bomb, even at that late date, in that select group, 417 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,800 it was like they were all shocked 418 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,800 because it was such a closely guarded secret. 419 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,320 It was comparable to mentioning Skull and Bones at Yale, 420 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,160 which you're not supposed to do. 421 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,960 But Mr Truman said, “This is just the sort of thing 422 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,280 I was trying to reach for— get that all spelled out.” 423 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,200 At that point Stimson did come in and joined support for my position, 424 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,560 but then later on Mr Byrnes, who was then secretary of state, 425 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:40,920 who was not present, vetoed the idea of offering them the mikado. 426 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,800 One can only speculate as to what would have happened 427 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,200 if we had put the message to the Japanese 428 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,240 in the form that I indicated, including the mikado. 429 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,680 I always had the feeling, in view of some of the information we've had since 430 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:03,560 of the tendency on the part of some of the real military hotheads in Japan, 431 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,320 to think that this was perhaps the best way out, 432 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,720 that we might have been able to avoid the dropping of the bomb. 433 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,840 Mr McCloy rings true to me. 434 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,520 One of our researchers, Sue McConachy, a fluent German speaker, 435 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,080 was given the most difficult task of all, 436 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:25,840 that of finding ex-members of the SS and persuading them to talk to us on film. 437 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:27,840 Her longest and hardest search 438 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,640 was for Himmler's adjutant, Karl Wolff. 439 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,800 This is from her account of that search, and I'm going to quote from it. 440 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,760 “Nearly a year later, after many phone calls 441 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,680 and a letter through a third party, I finally met the old man.” 442 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,480 “Not in his home. I still didn't know where that was, 443 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,880 but in a hotel in Berlin.” 444 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:54,000 “He was most charming, quite unlike the fantastic figure we'd imagined.” 445 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:59,240 “Again, the long process of establishing trust began.” 446 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,640 “I visited his home several times.” 447 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,440 “He agreed to talk about subjects 448 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,040 where he claimed he had first-hand knowledge.” 449 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,640 “He wanted to explain the ideology of the SS to us.” 450 00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:13,000 “A contract was drawn up 451 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,840 which gave him the option to read a transcript of the entire interview 452 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,680 to check the factually accuracy of what he said.” 453 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,560 The interview was long and tricky. 454 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,960 It went on all day. 455 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,120 “After lunch,” Sue McConachy says, and they're filming this, 456 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,880 “After lunch, I asked him to repeat the story that he'd told me 457 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,800 one evening over supper about an incident at Minsk 458 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,360 at which he'd been present, 459 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,160 when a hundred people were shot into an open grave 460 00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:49,400 as a demonstration for Himmler, who was sick when he saw it.” 461 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,240 “Wolff looked a bit surprised.” 462 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,120 “He'd forgotten that he'd ever mentioned that.” 463 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,920 “Then the film ran out.” 464 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,800 “I wondered if, with time to think, he would actually tell the story again.” 465 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,360 “He did.” 466 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:09,280 “I was relieved,” says our researcher, “not just because I'd got the story, 467 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,720 but because he'd had the time to reflect 468 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,320 on what the consequences of telling it might be 469 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,480 and I could feel less responsible if he did in fact end up in court again 470 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,240 when the programme was shown.” 471 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,200 Every time the lie is put about 472 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,920 that there was no mass slaughter of the Jews, no Holocaust, 473 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,760 I am grateful, as the world's archives will always be, 474 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,200 to Sue McConachy and her like 475 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:40,480 for the pains that she took to get Karl Wolff on the record. 476 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:46,400 She spent days with ex-SS men and nights having nightmares about them. 477 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,960 She listened to them. She didn't judge them. Nor did I. 478 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,960 I decided to leave judgement on all our witnesses to you, the viewer. 479 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,280 I don't guarantee to you that they tell the whole truth 480 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,480 or even a truth that you will accept. 481 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,320 Here are three very different Germans. 482 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,840 One of them is Albert Speer, Hitler's Minister for War Production, 483 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,600 telling how they knew what they knew, 484 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,000 what they thought they could do to save Europe's Jews. 485 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,960 Christabel Bielenberg's husband was a conspirator against Hitler. 486 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,400 He was away from home when she was asked to give shelter to two Jews, 487 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,440 and she consulted her neighbour. 488 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,480 I was astonished—overcome, really— 489 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,560 at the response that I got from my neighbour 490 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:38,960 who told me that under no circumstances whatsoever could I house these people, 491 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,960 that housing of Jews meant concentration camp not only for me but for my husband, 492 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,680 possibly also for my children. 493 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,280 I can remember going through and out into the road 494 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:57,360 and out of the darkness came a voice— I knew there was somebody there— 495 00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,440 came a voice saying: 496 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,440 “Frau Doktor… Frau Bielenberg, 497 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,680 haben Sie einen Schluss gefasst?” 498 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,560 which means, “Have you decided?” 499 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,440 And I simply couldn't say no. 500 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:19,320 I just said, “Well, I can't for longer than two days.” 501 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,360 And I let him into the cellar. 502 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,160 They stayed for two days 503 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:37,920 and on the second day 504 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,480 or rather in the evening, they must have left 505 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,840 because in the morning she was gone, 506 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,960 the cellar was empty, 507 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,040 the little bed I'd put up all tidily arranged 508 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,320 and they had gone. 509 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,680 I knew later that they were caught 510 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,240 buying a ticket at a railway station 511 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,320 and were transported to Auschwitz. 512 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,360 And why I say this is the most painful and terrible story 513 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,040 for me to have to tell 514 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,720 is because after they left, 515 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:19,600 I realised that Hitler had turned me into a murderer. 516 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,000 One day in '44, 517 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:29,520 Gauleiter Hanke came in my office and told me 518 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:35,200 that he was visiting a concentration camp in Upper Silesia 519 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:40,000 and warned me never to go in a concentration camp there 520 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,080 because horrible things would happen. 521 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:47,200 This together with other hints I got 522 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:52,640 should have made my decision 523 00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:55,760 to go to Hitler immediately or to Himmler 524 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,480 and to ask them what is going on 525 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,320 and to take my own steps. 526 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:07,880 But I didn't do it and not doing it was, I think nowadays, 527 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,040 the biggest fault in my life. 528 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:17,240 We felt that people should know what was going on, 529 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,800 and maybe typical is this little experience which I had one day 530 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:26,040 standing in the line for vegetables or something like that. 531 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,280 I told my neighbours standing around me 532 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:35,040 that now they start to kill the Jews in the concentration camps, 533 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,080 that it is not true that they only are brought there 534 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,920 and can live there as they live here, as it was told them. 535 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,880 They are killed and they even make soap out of them. 536 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,920 I know that. 537 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,960 And they said, “Frau Bonhoeffer, 538 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,960 if you don't stop telling such horror stories 539 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:58,000 you will end in a concentration camp too and nobody of us can help you.” 540 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:04,120 “It's not true what you're telling. You shouldn't believe foreign broadcasts.” 541 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,160 “They tell these things to make enemies against Germany.” 542 00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:12,920 I said, “No, that's not from broadcasts. I know that directly from first hand.” 543 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,000 “You can be sure it is that way.” 544 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,840 And coming home I told my husband in the evening 545 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:24,720 and he was not at all applauding to me— on the very contrary. 546 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,280 He said, “My dear, sorry to say, 547 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,120 but you are absolutely idiotic, what you are doing.” 548 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,680 “Please understand, 549 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:39,120 a dictatorship is like a snake.” 550 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,080 “If you put your foot on its tail, 551 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,760 as you do it, it will just bite you 552 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,640 and nobody will be helped.” 553 00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:50,600 “You have to strike the head.” 554 00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:57,360 Each of those witnesses I think reveals there something of his or her true self. 555 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,960 We didn't judge them, but a little bit of juxtaposition helps. 556 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:06,240 Emmi Bonhoeffer's husband Klaus and her brother-in-law Dietrich 557 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,000 were among the staunchest of Hitler's opponents 558 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,400 and both paid for their bravery with their lives. 559 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,680 What sort of history is The World at War? 560 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,520 It's television narrative history. 561 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:24,000 It doesn't propose different interpretations of a course of events, 562 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,120 weigh the evidence for each, 563 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,040 invite you to keep all of them in your mind while we consider them 564 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,560 and eventually plump for one and put that forward. 565 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,840 The writing historian does do that 566 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,920 and you the reader can go back on the printed page, 567 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,240 back if you like to the previous chapter, 568 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,600 to check something that you didn't quite understand. 569 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,200 But television, like music, occurs in time, 570 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,560 and the viewer, unless you're looking at a video recording, 571 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,120 cannot normally go back. 572 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,400 The programme producer, therefore, must tell a clear story 573 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,680 that you, the viewer, can follow. 574 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:05,960 So when we tried to answer a question that has puzzled historians of the war, 575 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:11,040 we made up our minds what we believed and we gave you that. 576 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,200 But it's important that you the viewers should understand 577 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,080 that we the makers have made the selection 578 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:21,280 and that we know that the real story is always more complex 579 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,400 than we present it as being. 580 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,760 There are only 2,000 words of narration in most episodes of The World at War. 581 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:32,360 We know and we hope that you know how much we've had to leave out. 582 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:38,560 But if we tried to be clear, we also tried not to be too simplistic. 583 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:43,320 We wanted to hear different experiences, different points of view. 584 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,080 In the end, I think The World at War works 585 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,720 because interwoven in one narrative line, 586 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,440 it contains contrasts and even contradictions. 587 00:42:54,520 --> 00:43:00,120 Those who bombed Germany and Japan, for example, did their necessary job. 588 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:05,000 Those they bombed, many of whom were innocent, suffered. 589 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:10,720 Hindsight enables both sides now to see how others acted and suffered 590 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,920 in a way that they never did at the time. 591 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,320 Some stories that we were told we had to leave out, 592 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:18,960 but they were too good to lose 593 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:23,840 and so we made other, longer films in which they find a place. 594 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:29,400 Christabel Bielenberg remembers an eerie incident of her life in Nazi Germany 595 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:31,400 as the war neared its end 596 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,920 and the horrors of what had been done and what was still being done 597 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:36,920 could no longer be suppressed. 598 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:42,200 Near the end of the war I had to travel from Berlin to the Black Forest… 599 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:50,600 …and I happened to travel in the same carriage as an SS man. 600 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,720 A raid had just started 601 00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:00,640 and most of the people had left the carriage when I heard this voice 602 00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:06,240 saying, “I think it's better we stay put because the train will probably move out 603 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,160 and we'll have the carriage to ourselves.” 604 00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:15,400 And indeed I had it to myself with this SS officer 605 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,840 for many hours on this train journey. 606 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:23,240 He explained to me that he was on his way to the front now. 607 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,200 That all he wanted to do was to get killed. 608 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,760 And… but… He had tried again and again, 609 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:35,040 but always he'd seemed to survive every battle he'd been in. 610 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:42,320 He'd transferred to the Waffen SS, which was the military arm of the SS, 611 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,600 who were always in the thick of the battle, but he'd survived. 612 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,560 He told me that in Poland, 613 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,400 they had… 614 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,520 …he had belonged to one of the commandos, 615 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:03,320 which were called the Extermination Commandos, 616 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:09,280 and on one particular occasion, when the Jews were standing round in a semicircle 617 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,920 with the half-dug graves behind them… 618 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,600 …that the machine guns had been set up 619 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:25,560 and out of the ranks of the Jews that were standing there 620 00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,800 a wonderful figure had come towards him. 621 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:32,760 He said, “He had long hair. I suppose he was a priest of some kind.” 622 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,840 And he'd said, “God is watching what you do.” 623 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:43,760 And he said, “We shot him down before he returned to the semicircle.” 624 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:49,520 Another little boy, before they'd set up this scene, 625 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:55,360 had asked him, “Am I standing straight enough, Uncle?” 626 00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,160 And he told me these things he could never forget 627 00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:04,600 and that he only, as I said, now wished to die. 628 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,200 I travelled with that man all through the night… 629 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:14,080 …and as the carriage had no windows, it was very cold, 630 00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,960 and I can remember waking in the night, 631 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:22,640 strangely enough, with my head resting on his shoulder. 632 00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:26,720 And he'd covered my knees with his sheepskin coat. 633 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,480 Next time I woke, he'd gone. 634 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,760 Her head on his shoulder, his coat covering her knees. 635 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,600 You wouldn't find details like that in most history books, 636 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:44,000 but it's stories like that that make popular television history possible. 637 00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,680 The Second World War cost more than 50 million lives. 638 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,200 It shaped the world we live in. 639 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,520 The United States of America came out of isolation, 640 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,480 becoming the greatest power on the world stage. 641 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,480 Soviet Russia emerged from another isolation 642 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,520 to impose her grip on half of Europe. 643 00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,440 Germany was divided. 644 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,480 There has been peace in Europe for more than 40 years. 645 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:12,480 The story of the Second World War 646 00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:16,520 is a story with dark beginnings and a happy end. 647 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,880 Mussolini's fascism, Japanese militarism, 648 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,360 Hitler's Nazism, were smashed. 649 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,280 The right side won. 55319

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