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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:24,120 (cheering) 2 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,760 (narrator) During the years of triumph, 3 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,920 Germans couldn't see enough of Adolf Hitler— 4 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,040 Germany's saviour. 5 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:51,280 Germany's greatest statesman. 6 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,960 The greatest general the world had ever seen. 7 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:01,640 But as the war turned against Germany, Hitler disappeared from public view. 8 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:06,280 And at the last, the German people knew nothing. 9 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:12,280 They were told he had died a hero's death, but that was all. 10 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:17,480 Nazis, and later the Russians, concealed what they knew about his end. 11 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,160 The first Westerner to investigate the affair 12 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,960 was British historian Hugh Trevor-Roper. 13 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:30,560 The controversy began because Hitler was last heard of in the West 14 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:38,640 when he made a broadcast on the 22nd, I think, of April 1945, 15 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,400 saying that he would stay in Berlin. 16 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,640 And when the Russians captured Berlin, 17 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:49,600 no announcement was made about his life or death or anything about him. 18 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,760 The body of Goebbels was found and shown by the Russians. 19 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,120 The body of Hitler was not. 20 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,960 And five months after Hitler's disappearance, 21 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,760 the Russians accused the British authorities in Germany 22 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,800 of concealing Hitler and Eva Braun in the British zone 23 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,600 for ultimate use against the Russians. 24 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,600 This was the last straw which provoked the British authorities in Germany 25 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,680 to decide to settle this matter 26 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,280 and I was appointed to find out the facts. 27 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,640 That's the beginning of the controversy. 28 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,840 And of course I naturally consider that when I had made my report, 29 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:34,200 on 1 November, 1945, 30 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,040 the controversy should logically have come to an end. 31 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,960 Why it went on, I can't think, 32 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:47,120 except for the perpetual Russian mystification. 33 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,800 (narrator) Yelena Rzhevskaya was an interpreter with the Red Army unit 34 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:52,240 which tried to find Hitler. 35 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,240 Dr Faust Shkaravsky headed the autopsy commission 36 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,960 which examined the body the Russians found. 37 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,800 Professor Keith Simpson is a British pathologist 38 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,560 who has assessed the Soviet findings. 39 00:03:03,640 --> 00:03:06,800 Dental expert Reidar Sognnaes found important new evidence 40 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,200 in a United States archive. 41 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:14,800 Albert Speer, Nazi armaments minister, saw Hitler often during the war. 42 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:19,800 Heinz Linge was Hitler's valet and closest personal servant. 43 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,600 Hitler's secretary Traudl Junge 44 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,400 was with him in the underground headquarters, the bunker, until the end. 45 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:33,240 This situation in the bunker was a fantastic one. 46 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,560 One really can't… An unrealistic one. 47 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:45,640 One really can't describe how the moods went on and off like waves. 48 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,480 Sometimes they were all exhilarating 49 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,000 and we were thinking, 50 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,760 “Well, now the Western troops 51 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,120 are coming for release of Berlin.” 52 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,600 Goebbels was exclaiming 53 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:05,080 one of the biggest decisions of the war that Hitler made. 54 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:11,800 “He is now determined to… no more to fight against the West, 55 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,000 only to the East in Berlin, 56 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:20,000 and this will mean that the Western powers will join us 57 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:21,800 in our fight against Russia.” 58 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,880 And such things happened every now and then, 59 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:31,080 and then a few minutes afterwards everybody was speaking about suicide. 60 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,480 (speaking German) 61 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,600 (translator) Since Stalingrad, 62 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,200 Hitler's state of health had been constantly deteriorating. 63 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:50,560 He dragged one of his legs somewhat and got a shaking in his arm. 64 00:04:55,480 --> 00:05:00,240 During the last days in the bunker, this got much worse. 65 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:11,440 During April, when the report came through that Roosevelt was dead, 66 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:17,280 and Truman had said that America's area of interest was not in Europe, 67 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,600 but in East Asia, 68 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,760 Hitler drew some hopes from this 69 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:28,400 and clung to it like a drowning man clutching a last straw. 70 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:36,720 We spoke about committing suicide 71 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:42,640 as other people talk about fashions 72 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,000 or about what they have done today. 73 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:53,960 And so Eva Braun asked for the best and the painless, 74 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,360 the most painless method to commit suicide. 75 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,560 And Hitler said, “That would be cyanide.” 76 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:03,720 “You don't feel anything.” 77 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,240 And she said, “Then I would prefer that, because if I shoot myself, 78 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,120 I would make an ugly impression when I am dead.” 79 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:17,320 Hitler himself saw no other solution 80 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:23,560 and no other way out than to commit suicide himself too. 81 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,400 And so it infected us a little. 82 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:33,760 It was a most varied theme of our conversations, how to commit suicide. 83 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:40,920 It was a little macabre. And then he gave us capsules, poison capsules. 84 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,120 It was in a brass, in a brass… like a lipstick. 85 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:50,600 It looked like a lipstick in brass… outside wrapping. 86 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,600 And he gave it to Mrs Christian and me and said, 87 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,840 “I would like to give you a nice present, 88 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:05,200 but I think this one will be of much use for you.” 89 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:12,680 And with a regretting smile, he gave us this poison. 90 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:14,320 (speaking German) 91 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:20,000 (translator) He himself also did not have the sort of trust he used to have 92 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,120 towards other people, 93 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,440 even, for instance, towards his own doctors. 94 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,080 I had to give him his eye drops in the morning. 95 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,640 He maintained that I had a particularly steady hand. 96 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,280 But I believe that it was more his mistrust of other people. 97 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:49,480 Also, when the doctor came to take his blood, 98 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,240 I had to be there and keep an eye on it. 99 00:07:55,640 --> 00:08:02,200 It became more and more clear that he mistrusted everybody. 100 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:08,240 And one day there came one of the men of the press bureau, press office, 101 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,240 and brought the news. 102 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:17,920 I think he had heard it by radio from Reuters news agency, 103 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:25,960 that Himmler had had negotiations with Count Bernadotte for capitulation 104 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,240 and Hitler was very upset 105 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:33,480 because he held Himmler for his most faithful paladin 106 00:08:33,560 --> 00:08:36,400 and the most reliable one, 107 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:41,880 and now he saw that also he had tried to betray him. 108 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:48,240 He remembered suddenly that the poison which he had to use for himself 109 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,920 was given to him from one of Himmler's staff 110 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,960 and he mistrusted that it may affect… 111 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,160 Perhaps Himmler tried a dirty trick 112 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:05,960 and gave him something that would only make him unconscious, 113 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:11,280 so that he could be transported against his will out of the bunker 114 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,080 and delivered to the enemy. 115 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,480 And to test this, 116 00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:23,240 he ordered a doctor to try to test this poison capsule on the dog. 117 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:28,320 I think next to Eva Braun, this one was next to him. 118 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,680 So he said farewell and Blondi died very promptly. 119 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,320 (speaking German) 120 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,000 (translator) The telegram came from Goering, 121 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,560 which said, “Mein Führer”. 122 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,800 No longer “My beloved Führer”, 123 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,600 but just “Mein Führer”. 124 00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:50,360 “I know that you are now totally cut off 125 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:55,760 and are no longer in possession of full freedom to command.” 126 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:02,480 “According to the law of succession, I will now step into your position 127 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:10,320 and will undertake to represent Germany both in internal and external matters.” 128 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,400 “Yours, Goering.” 129 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:19,000 Hitler was so worked up over this. 130 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:24,200 He sat in his chair and could not grasp it at first. 131 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:30,360 This was added to by Bormann, who added fuel to the fire somewhat, 132 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:37,880 so that Hitler then said, “To give me an ultimatum, that really is the end.” 133 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:48,080 It was sad to see how Hitler went down and down. 134 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:54,120 He walked very stooped and bent, his hand shaking badly, 135 00:10:54,200 --> 00:11:00,480 which he used to put inside his jacket so that people didn't see it so much, 136 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:03,640 and his dragging leg. 137 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,280 And this whole mood spread over all around him. 138 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,600 Nobody knew what they should do any more. 139 00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:14,480 It came in my mind 140 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:20,680 that perhaps he always was the first commander of the army 141 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:26,080 and the chief of all soldiers, 142 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:32,720 so it would be more stylish and more logical 143 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:37,720 to fight his last battle, his last fight, 144 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:42,360 and to die on the… honour 145 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:47,360 and to fall with his soldiers. 146 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,240 But he refused. 147 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,400 “Yes, it would be right, but I cannot do that 148 00:11:55,480 --> 00:12:02,960 because my health state is too low and I am so trembling 149 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:10,160 that I couldn't hold a pistol and couldn't handle it.” 150 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,880 “So… And I am not sure that any one of my paladins 151 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:22,720 would be able to give me the last, the death shot if I was only wounded, 152 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:28,280 and I am not willing to fall in the hands of the enemy, 153 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,160 neither alive nor dead.” 154 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:37,120 (narrator) By April 29, Soviet troops were fighting inside Berlin. 155 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,120 Hitler began putting his affairs in order. 156 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:45,080 He married his mistress Eva Braun, and then he summoned Traudl Junge 157 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,560 to dictate to her his personal and political testaments. 158 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,840 Then he began, “My last will.” 159 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,160 Then he dictated me at first his private will 160 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:02,840 and afterwards his political testimony. 161 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:07,600 And I must confess that I was… 162 00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:13,160 I was at first in a very excited mood, 163 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,400 because I expected that I would be 164 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:22,480 the first and the only one who knows, 165 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:28,640 who is going to know the explanation and declaration 166 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:36,560 why the war had come to this end and why Hitler couldn't stop 167 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,480 and why the development and why the catastrophe… 168 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:46,240 I thought, “Now comes the moment of the truth.” 169 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:53,800 And I was heart bumping when I wrote down what Hitler said. 170 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,560 But he used nothing new. 171 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:02,880 He came out with his old phrases. 172 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:08,200 He repeated his accusations, 173 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:14,440 his swearing to the enemy 174 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:18,080 and to the Jewish capitalistic system. 175 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:24,520 And then he announced, 176 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,320 in the second part of the political testament, 177 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,880 he announced a new government. 178 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:33,760 (speaking German) 179 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,880 (translator) The next day, reports came in, 180 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:43,320 and it was now clear to him that the Russians could break in at any moment. 181 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,920 When Hitler said farewell to me, 182 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,400 I… I went to him against him 183 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,400 and he came toward me 184 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:59,560 and his face was already dead. It was like a mask. 185 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,720 He looked at me, but I had the feeling he looked through me, 186 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,320 and he gave me a shake of the hand 187 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,360 and murmured something, but I didn't understand. 188 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,600 It's… I had not understand what he said at last. 189 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,680 But Eva Braun was beside him 190 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:22,640 and he… shook hands to all the others. 191 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:29,760 She embraced me really heartily and looked at me with a little sad smile 192 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,600 and said, “Please try to go out of here.” 193 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,200 “Please try to come to Munich again 194 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:42,240 and give my regards to my beloved Bavaria.” 195 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,760 And then he… 196 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,840 she and Hitler shut the door and retired 197 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:58,080 and I had an absolute need for… for fleeing, and I… I… 198 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,160 I fled these stairs upside on the next level, 199 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,840 and there I found the children of Goebbels. 200 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:08,960 (speaking German) 201 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,320 (translator) He said farewell to everybody 202 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,880 and I was the last one he came to. 203 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:21,760 Hitler said to me, “I have given the order to break out.” 204 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:27,600 “You should break out in groups, join one of these groups 205 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,320 and try to get through to the West.” 206 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:38,280 Then I asked Hitler, “For whom should we fight on for now?” 207 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,160 And to that Hitler said in a monotone, 208 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,160 “For the coming man.” 209 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:50,840 I saluted him. He gave me his hand and I disappeared out of the room. 210 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:58,000 I was so upset, and for a moment I didn't know what to do. 211 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,000 I ran over to the bodyguard. 212 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,680 But after a short while, I went back 213 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:09,760 because I assumed now it must surely have happened. 214 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,840 Suddenly there was a bang. There was a shot. 215 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:18,400 And it was obviously within the bunker, 216 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:25,800 because the noises of the outside… shooting, 217 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,760 we know how they sound. 218 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:34,680 And the little boy of Goebbels, 219 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,840 he noticed and he noticed that there was another sound. 220 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:45,440 He said, “Oh, that was a bull-eye… that was a bull's-eye.” 221 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:50,120 And I thought, “Yes, you are right, that was really a bull's-eye.” 222 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,440 (speaking German) 223 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,280 (translator) I went into Hitler's workroom 224 00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:59,000 with the former Reichsleiter Bormann, 225 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,840 and this picture presented itself to us. 226 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,400 Hitler was sitting on the left of the sofa 227 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:12,560 with his face bent slightly forward and hanging down to the right. 228 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:19,120 With the 7.65 he had shot himself in the right temple. 229 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,600 The blood had run down onto the carpet, 230 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:27,800 and from this pool of blood, a splash had got onto the sofa. 231 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,840 Eva Braun was sitting on his right. 232 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,560 Eva Braun had drawn both her legs up onto the sofa 233 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,960 and was sitting there with cramped lips, 234 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:53,120 so that it immediately became clear to us that she had taken cyanide. 235 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,280 I took Hitler by his neck. 236 00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:01,880 Behind me were two other officers from the Escort Commando. 237 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,360 And so we took Hitler's body 238 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,160 and proceeded with it into the park. 239 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:18,840 In the park we laid the bodies together, next to each other 240 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,080 and poured the available petrol over them. 241 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:29,360 In the Reichschancellery Park, there was fire all around it 242 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,240 and there was a draught, 243 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:36,040 so that we could not set the corpse alight with an ordinary match. 244 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:45,360 So I twisted a taper out of some paper with notes on it, 245 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,320 and Reichsleiter Bormann, 246 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:53,240 who meanwhile had also come upstairs with some others, 247 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:58,160 like Dr Goebbels, Burgdorf and officers, 248 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:04,160 lit the taper and I threw the taper onto the bodies 249 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:08,880 and in an instant the corpses were set alight. 250 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:19,720 As regards the burning of the bodies of Hitler and Eva Braun, 251 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:24,720 I should like to add that the flames lit them for about half an hour, 252 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:34,040 that only the woollen blankets and the clothes were affected by this and burnt, 253 00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:36,720 and not the body itself. 254 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:51,360 It was clear to us afterwards that we should have laid the corpses on them. 255 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,360 Then the bodies would have been totally charred. 256 00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:06,200 But this was in consequence of the whole mood. 257 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,640 We couldn't collect our thoughts any more. 258 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:19,360 And apart from that, the troops who should make the break-out with us 259 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,720 were quartered in the Reichschancellery. 260 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,320 If the soldiers had seen 261 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:34,200 that we were burning Hitler's and Eva Braun's bodies— 262 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,240 one can't just say Hitler's body— 263 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:44,080 they would probably not have been prepared to carry out the break-out. 264 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,840 (narrator) Even before Berlin fell, 265 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,880 a Soviet investigating team had been given the job of finding Hitler 266 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,120 or his corpse. 267 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:02,920 Incomplete reports and poor photographs of their work were eventually released. 268 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,880 This is supposed to be the very spot 269 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,520 where they found the bodies of Hitler and of Eva Braun. 270 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:17,400 The Russians never admitted that Hitler was dead until 1950, 271 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,080 when they produced a film. 272 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:26,880 They then revealed no details, 273 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,640 although we now know that they had all the facts. 274 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:38,640 The details they have revealed have been revealed in such a form 275 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:43,160 that it doesn't carry a great deal of conviction or not full conviction. 276 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,440 (speaking Russian) 277 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,640 (translator) On 4 May, 278 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:52,240 I saw them lying in the garden of the Imperial Chancellery 279 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,560 wrapped in a grey blanket. 280 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,440 In fact, on 4 May, 281 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,280 they were discovered in a bomb crater spattered with earth 282 00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:08,600 by Churakov, one of the soldiers in our group. 283 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:17,200 Their bodies were dragged from there to the garden of the Imperial Chancellery. 284 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,360 (narrator) The bodies were sent to Dr Faust Shkaravsky 285 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,200 to be autopsied by himself and his five-man team. 286 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,960 (speaks Russian) 287 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,840 (translator) One should however say that Hitler's and Eva Braun's bodies 288 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,360 were badly charred, 289 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:38,200 unrecognisably so, especially that of Eva Braun. 290 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,760 Hitler too was charred, but less so. 291 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,960 From the outside, one couldn't have said who it was. 292 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,920 You see, the extremities, 293 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,000 that is the ends of the hands and lower part of the foot, 294 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,440 were completely gone— they'd been burnt away. 295 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,400 The torso itself was a dark colour, like some sort of coal. 296 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,880 The crown of the head was extremely badly burnt in places, 297 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:09,040 so much so that a lump of skin, sorry, of bone, had been burnt. 298 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,240 We approached the examination 299 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,320 with the highest degree of care that it was possible to observe. 300 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,760 Everything that was possible to be seen from the autopsy we examined, 301 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,120 and then we took samples of fluids 302 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,960 and despatched it all to the district medical research laboratory, 303 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,560 which was called, as far as I can remember, cellar 291. 304 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,280 They did the examination 305 00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:44,320 and advised me by telegraph either one or two days later— 306 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,920 I don't remember the date too well— 307 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:52,080 that the traces found were either cyanide or cyanide compounds. 308 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,760 The autopsy for Hitler, for instance, which they have published, 309 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,680 has never been published in the original Russian. 310 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,920 It has only been published in German and English. 311 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:13,480 It was released in… an unusual way, 312 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:18,200 in a way which, perhaps unfairly, seems to deprive it of authority. 313 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,840 (narrator) Here, in Russian, 314 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,160 is Shkaravsky's typed copy of the autopsy report. 315 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,880 It states, “On the body, considerably damaged by fire, 316 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,120 no visible signs of severe lethal injuries or illnesses 317 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:33,600 could be detected.” 318 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,880 “The presence in the oral cavity of the remnants of a crushed glass ampoule; 319 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,440 the marked smell of bitter almonds emanating from the bodies 320 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,200 and the forensic chemical test of internal organs, 321 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,200 which established the presence of cyanide compounds, 322 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,040 permit the commission to arrive at the conclusion 323 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:55,080 that death in this instance was caused by poisoning with cyanide compounds.” 324 00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:00,200 The report also says that “Part of the occipital vault is missing.” 325 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,160 Since this is part of the skull, 326 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,040 some people say it leaves open the possibility that Hitler was also shot. 327 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,480 I've read the autopsy report. I expect it's mainly directed by Shkaravsky. 328 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,000 But he had assistance, 329 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,360 and I would regard it as a very full and searching autopsy. 330 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,480 The postmortem appears to have been a really searching one 331 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,440 and to have been thorough by ordinary standards. 332 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,640 (narrator) But was this body Hitler's? 333 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,720 The corpse had only one testicle, 334 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,040 and the body was not as tall as Hitler was known to be. 335 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,240 (speaking Russian) 336 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,880 (translator) I repeat, the body was badly charred 337 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,800 and the extremities were even more charred. 338 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,280 And so, to speak of a difference of six, seven or even ten centimetres, 339 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:46,360 to ascertain it accurately would be beyond our scope. 340 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,760 And this was why we wrote “approximately” in the end. 341 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:56,240 And even if in life he measured 1.75 and in the autopsy he only measured 1.65, 342 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,840 I don't see this as being anything significant. 343 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:04,840 A body shrinks when burned and I think the difference is too small to matter. 344 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,720 (speaking Russian) 345 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,200 (translator) There was indeed one genital missing, 346 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,880 which we discovered quite by chance, 347 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,080 but it had nothing to do with the case in hand. 348 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,440 We usually treat this extremely rare occurrence 349 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,200 by looking in the sperm duct itself. 350 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,160 But it wasn't there. 351 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:37,080 Then we looked in the lower intestine regions, but it wasn't there either. 352 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,240 So we came to the conclusion that it was in fact absent. 353 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,520 To find one testicle only, 354 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,840 which I was amused to see in the report was found quite by accident— 355 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,040 it doesn't appear to have been searched for—is not uncommon. 356 00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:55,960 They did search properly, but it's not uncommon to find only one testicle. 357 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,560 I don't think that's a very important point of identification. 358 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,080 And we don't know if Hitler had only one testicle or not. 359 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:09,720 The ordinary methods of identifying a dead body as a particular person— 360 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,360 their clothing, papers, documents, 361 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,000 credit cards and things in their pockets, 362 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,960 the features, which can be recognised by relatives, 363 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:21,800 colour of the hair and eyes, 364 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,360 and fingerprints, if it comes to detail of that order— 365 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,120 are of course destroyed when the body is subjected to fire. 366 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:36,160 When it's scorched badly or is charred, 367 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,880 almost all those things disappear, 368 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,560 and you are left with a study of what is sometimes nearly a skeleton. 369 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,520 So you can only identify a person as being male or female, 370 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,400 a certain height and probably somewhere near a certain age. 371 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,000 The fingerprints will have disappeared. 372 00:28:55,080 --> 00:29:01,440 Now you also, because the teeth tend to be preserved from fire inside the mouth, 373 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,680 have one other source of information. 374 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:10,360 The teeth, especially if they include a lot of detail of conservation, 375 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:15,480 repair work, of fillings and bridges and other similar things, 376 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,080 can provide a mine of information about identification. 377 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,560 (speaking Russian) 378 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,080 (translator) The teeth were so unusual 379 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,160 that their identification would mean the identification of the corpse. 380 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,560 One should also comment that in the upper jaw 381 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,600 on the left-hand side, I think— I don't remember for certain— 382 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,280 well, high up in the left-hand jaw, there was a smooth file mark. 383 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,480 It was felt that some mistake had been made in the filing of the dentures 384 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,640 and a stomatologist had filed off a piece of the bridge. 385 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,720 Taken all in all, we paid considerable attention to the teeth. 386 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,440 Of course, for those to have any value, like fingerprints, 387 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,120 you must have records. 388 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,320 You must have a dental surgeon who has been careful to keep full records, 389 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,760 and you must have photographs and x-rays. 390 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,440 And it is when you can, 391 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,480 by making careful note of the details in your dead body, 392 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,360 take these to a dental surgeon, 393 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,400 whom you suspect to have looked after that supposed body, 394 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:34,320 by comparing the two and finding that they do match in detail, 395 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,680 then you can be as certain as you could with fingerprints 396 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:44,800 that that is the body of this person whose records that dental surgeon has. 397 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,960 (narrator) Hitler did have a personal dentist, Hugo Blaschke. 398 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,640 No one could find him. 399 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,840 So the investigators began the search for his assistant. 400 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,840 (speaking Russian) 401 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,480 (translator) Käthe Hausermann was the assistant of Professor Blaschke, 402 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,200 who was Hitler's personal dentist. 403 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,480 In a medical investigation, 404 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,880 her participation was an extremely important link in the chain 405 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,600 because nobody else could have determined Hitler's teeth, 406 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,320 which were in perfectly good order, to such a degree. 407 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,200 And this being the case, 408 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,480 her place in the investigation was extremely important. 409 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,920 We hardly hoped to find anybody of assistance 410 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,840 in the destruction and fire of Berlin, 411 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,280 the city which had just been witness to the fall of the Third Empire. 412 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,200 It was still enveloped in flames. 413 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,400 This city, whose roads were so wrecked 414 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,560 that our cars couldn't go to and fro across the town. 415 00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:01,000 In Berlin we literally dug in the heaps of rubble to unearth her. 416 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,640 One could say that our efforts have been accompanied by a stroke of luck. 417 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,800 Without her we could hardly have had 418 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,080 such an exhaustively full and complete proof. 419 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:17,560 (speaking Russian) 420 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,080 (translator) It was I who, both as an expert 421 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,360 and as the chairman of the commission, 422 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,160 had to have a long conversation with Käthe Hausermann. 423 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,200 Her first approach to us was one of trepidation. 424 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,240 She feared that the Soviet doctors would treat her badly. 425 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,760 But then told her that I also was a doctor, just like herself, 426 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:41,840 interested in purely medical questions and therefore she could feel at ease. 427 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,160 The table at which I was sitting had a flask of water, sweets, 428 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,240 Russian cigarettes and cigars on it. 429 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,520 I asked her if she wanted to smoke 430 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,760 and an atmosphere both businesslike and calm was established. 431 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,640 When I was working during the war, 432 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,800 at the period in question, 1942, '43, '44, '45, 433 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,920 I had several London bombing bodies to— 434 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,320 the victims of London bombing— to identify, and we used dental details. 435 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,080 And I wouldn't have thought of setting out in the mortuary 436 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,480 for identification of a body 437 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,760 without the assistance of a dental surgeon and his records. 438 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,680 I might myself, if we were working under difficulty, 439 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:37,040 as the Russians may well have been at the 1945 autopsy on Hitler, 440 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:42,560 I would myself, perhaps, have to make a photographic and drawing record 441 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,720 of the teeth as I saw them. 442 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,000 But I would certainly retain those teeth 443 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,520 and see that an expert dental surgeon, used to dental recording, 444 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,040 saw them later to confirm my findings. 445 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,600 (speaking Russian) 446 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,160 (translator) I suggested that she should relate all that she knew, 447 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,240 and in those instances where there was a lack of clarity in what she had said, 448 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,080 I posed her several questions. 449 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,440 When I realised that she really was acquainted with Hitler's dentures, 450 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,720 that to say that this was indeed a person 451 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,800 who had dealings with the dentures, 452 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,840 I asked her additional questions. 453 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:25,920 The team consisted of some half a dozen army pathologists, 454 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:32,560 none of whom, even Lt Col Shkaravsky himself, who was in charge, 455 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,360 none of whom had special forensic experience 456 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,440 and none of whom, to my knowledge, 457 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,840 had ever had this exercise to perform before. 458 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:45,880 They made an autopsy which, from the record, looked thorough enough, 459 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,400 but they failed to include in their autopsy 460 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:56,200 more than a very poor drawing of the upper and lower teeth 461 00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:01,240 and of bridge work, which were still lying in situ. 462 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,080 It would not be enough for a pathologist, 463 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:10,880 especially if he were doing routine army pathology, to indulge himself 464 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:15,440 in what is a special medical legal exercise of identification 465 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,760 in which he knows, if he's had experience, 466 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,360 he must use the services of a skilled dental surgeon, 467 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,120 very often a dental surgeon whose work has become forensic 468 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,240 or who may have turned over to forensic identification work entirely. 469 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,640 (speaking Russian) 470 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:35,040 (translator) As I talked to Käthe Hausermann, 471 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,440 I sketched the teeth of a human being. 472 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,320 Here's the right-hand side. 473 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,080 Here I sketched the teeth in the upper jaw and here the lower jaw. 474 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,760 And you can clearly see the smooth edge of the teeth. 475 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,200 Then I showed this sketch to Käthe Hausermann 476 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,320 and said that here I'd found the two steel pins. 477 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,160 But she protested, saying there had to be three. 478 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:05,040 It's incredibly poor. It's a schoolboy diagram. 479 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,320 It shows a nine-tooth gold bridge here. 480 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,840 It even shows in front the little pegs which were hung on the four, 481 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,520 the left lateral and a right lateral incisor here. 482 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,920 But really the detail is very difficult to pick up. 483 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:24,360 It's small and it's indeterminate, though I can't say it's inaccurate. 484 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:26,720 (speaking Russian) 485 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,480 (translator) And when the conversation had ended, 486 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,040 and I was convinced that she really did know these teeth well, 487 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,680 I showed her the dentures which had been extracted from Hitler. 488 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,360 Her first reaction was one of extreme surprise. 489 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:46,720 She then realised that our conversation had not been an abstract one, 490 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,680 that we really had autopsied Hitler's corpse 491 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,920 and that it had been examined by Soviet specialists 492 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,800 and that she was confronted with Hitler's very dentures. 493 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:04,240 She then became less distraught and we calmly, dispassionately examined them. 494 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,920 Then she started off showing me these steel pins, 495 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,520 and when we examined the teeth in greater detail, 496 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:18,040 she turned out to be right—there were indeed three of these pins to be seen. 497 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,520 And here they are pictured on the right. 498 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,800 This convinced the commission, and more so myself, 499 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,240 that we had indeed unearthed Hitler's body. 500 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:39,960 The evidence that I have been involved with in studying Hitler's remains 501 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,640 is based on three types of observation. 502 00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:48,520 First of all, the Russian autopsy report, published in 1968, 503 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,280 revealed certain types of dental bridge work 504 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,320 which are critical for identification on a body that was destroyed by fire. 505 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,400 Number two, in the National Archives in Washington DC, 506 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:04,000 I was able to study in detail 507 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,600 the interrogation report of Hitler's dentist, 508 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,120 Dr Hugo Blaschke, who is now dead. 509 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,840 And he described in great detail the state of his dentition, 510 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,320 his treatment and so forth. 511 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,920 And thirdly, I was very fortunate, after a considerable search, 512 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,440 to locate five x-rays which were known to exist 513 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:28,800 from the British study of Hitler's last days, but which had not been found. 514 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,240 And I located this in the branch of the National Archives 515 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,960 in the little town of Suitland in Maryland. 516 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:41,600 And I'm showing two of the five x-rays here taken by the head and neck experts 517 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,800 who treated Hitler after the assassination attempt. 518 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,840 This picture was taken in September and this in October. 519 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,360 I want to point out, 520 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,520 though they were taken at two different times and locations 521 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,880 by two different doctors, they are from the identical persons, 522 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,280 seeing the very typical fingerprints, as it were, of the sinus outlines 523 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,160 and very characteristic bridge work 524 00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:08,880 both in this picture and in that picture. 525 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,920 Lastly, I have prepared a model 526 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:18,400 which summarises the findings of the dentist's report, 527 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,400 the x-rays and the Russian findings, 528 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,960 and I believe that this represents the true state of affairs of Hitler's teeth, 529 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,440 made up here in gold and porcelain. 530 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,840 Among that, this very discoloured left front tooth here, 531 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,800 which can be seen in some pictures, 532 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,920 although it was camouflaged most of the time by his moustache, 533 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,720 and the very characteristic bridge work in the lower jaw as well 534 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,320 and various types of pathology in his front teeth. 535 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,200 Sognnaes and Ström, when they drew, 536 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,000 of course by now, with the assistance of x-rays, 537 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,400 which had been discovered in Washington, 538 00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:01,720 have absolutely every single piece of detail in a single diagram, 539 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,880 the diagram in their article. 540 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:08,120 It shows not only the presence of, the number of teeth in, 541 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,000 the exact shape of and attachment of the three bridges, 542 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,920 the nine-tooth in the upper jaw, the two in the lower, 543 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,320 it shows the remarkable shape and attachment of the lingual bar bridge 544 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,280 in the right lower jaw and draws special attention 545 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,360 to the left upper-central incisor, 546 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,800 with its curious Richmond gold crown and this central translucent face. 547 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,000 I cannot conceive of anybody now not being utterly convinced 548 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:38,720 that these are the teeth of Hitler and that this was Hitler's skull. 549 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,560 There could be, I think, no conceivable objection. 550 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,960 There is not a single point which doesn't fit 551 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,440 and there are very many points which do. 552 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:53,400 It would be impossible, in my opinion, to recreate this in another individual. 553 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,680 So that I disregard the possibility 554 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,440 of there being a double that the Russians autopsied. 555 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:03,400 They did in fact find the body and where Trevor-Roper suggested it may be found, 556 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:08,160 outside a bunker in Berlin, and they autopsied the real Hitler. 557 00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:13,960 The only question which is still debated, in my opinion, 558 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,440 or can legitimately be debated, 559 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,600 is whether Hitler took poison or shot himself. 560 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:25,480 All the evidence that I had in 1945 was that he shot himself. 561 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:31,240 The Russians have always maintained that he took cyanide. 562 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:39,120 I stated in 1945, on the evidence of one of the German authorities, 563 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,880 that it was possible that although he had shot himself, 564 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,560 he had also put a poison capsule in his mouth to make sure. 565 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,080 And that seems to me quite possible. 566 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:50,160 (speaks Russian) 567 00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:52,320 (translator) A small piece of the skull 568 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,200 of approximately ten by seven centimetres was missing. 569 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,680 The edge of the missing portion was charred, 570 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,840 which meant that this was a result of the burning and not of injury. 571 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,080 I must stress that the brain itself was well preserved 572 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,920 and that there was no damage to the brain. 573 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,080 Neither was there damage to other portions of the skull. 574 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,400 Neither the nasal portion, the cheekbones, etc. 575 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,080 In a word, there is, 576 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,840 there was no damage at all, 577 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,440 so there is no proof of damage by firearms. 578 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,960 The only positive things that emerged from autopsy 579 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,840 are that glass was found in the mouth 580 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:35,800 and that hydrocyanic acid was detected by analysis afterwards in the body. 581 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,720 I find this a little surprising if there was great heat for some time, 582 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,960 as there was—petrol was poured more than once on the body— 583 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:48,360 for cyanide evaporates very quickly, and I'm a little surprised at that. 584 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,360 But glass was found in the mouth. 585 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,040 I think death must have due to the crushing of a cyanide capsule, 586 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,280 which we know was common practice among the higher Nazis. 587 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,000 We have to recognise the fact 588 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:07,080 that all the German witnesses do bear witness about the shooting. 589 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:12,040 We can't ignore that. They are just as good witnesses as the Russians. 590 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:19,280 The evidence on the Russian side is the autopsy which they've produced. 591 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,560 But I can't regard it as final, 592 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:28,960 firstly because they have produced it in so propagandist a form 593 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,440 that it, to some extent, cancels itself out. 594 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,800 Mr Bezymenski, a Russian journalist, 595 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,800 whom the Russians have employed to publish these documents, 596 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:47,360 makes it quite clear that he regards suicide by poison as the death of a dog 597 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,080 and a cowardly death, 598 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,800 and suicide by shooting as a soldier's death, 599 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,720 and that he is anxious to show that Hitler did not die a soldier's death, 600 00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,240 but a dog's death. 601 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,200 That shows a kind of political motivation 602 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,640 which rather detracts from his objectivity. 603 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:11,800 There is a truly extraordinary passage in Bezymenski's work 604 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:19,280 in which, having argued throughout that Hitler only took a poison capsule, 605 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:24,760 he then suddenly produces a theory which has no evidence or probability in it 606 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,480 and is given as a second-hand speculation, 607 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:35,480 that Heinz Linge afterwards shot Hitler when he was dead. 608 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,280 Well, what is the point of this 609 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,600 unless there was some evidence that Hitler had been shot? 610 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,880 I can't see what is the point of this speculation, 611 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,280 especially since the Russians had Linge 612 00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,160 in their possession as a prisoner for nine years. 613 00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:56,600 They could easily have established this fact if it were true 614 00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:02,000 without producing it as a second-hand speculation ascribed to Linge. 615 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,000 So I think that they, even in this matter, 616 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,600 the Russians have created mystification 617 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,720 and I think the balance of evidence, 618 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,680 which is what one has to go on when the evidence conflicts, 619 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,440 that the balance of evidence, 620 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:21,000 taking account of the fact that the German witnesses had no reason to lie 621 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,920 and were perfectly objective in their accounts to me, 622 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,640 the balance of evidence is that he shot himself. 623 00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:33,480 As regards to the firearm, I find no evidence of this in the report. 624 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:38,360 Shkaravsky doesn't find a hole in the roof of the mouth or either temple. 625 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,320 Part of the skull was missing, but it commonly is in fire— 626 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,680 it flakes off or is destroyed by fire. 627 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,720 And the brain was in good condition with no bullet track through it. 628 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:52,200 I don't think Hitler can have been shot. Certainly not through the head. 53329

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