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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:04,747 --> 00:00:05,970 Mom? 2 00:00:05,971 --> 00:00:08,563 Forensics experts are into their third day 3 00:00:08,564 --> 00:00:09,952 of combing the house, 4 00:00:09,953 --> 00:00:11,874 searching for clues to the identity 5 00:00:11,875 --> 00:00:13,465 of the person or persons 6 00:00:13,466 --> 00:00:15,591 responsible for the deaths of Mary Lou Barnes... 7 00:00:15,592 --> 00:00:16,782 These are two people 8 00:00:16,783 --> 00:00:18,863 minding their own business that are dead! 9 00:00:20,105 --> 00:00:22,474 What the hell happened here? 10 00:00:22,475 --> 00:00:23,707 Who the hell are you? 11 00:00:23,708 --> 00:00:25,499 Maybe you didn't mean to hurt her. 12 00:00:25,500 --> 00:00:28,818 Maybe you wait until little Larry goes to bed. 13 00:00:28,819 --> 00:00:30,009 Mom? 14 00:00:30,010 --> 00:00:31,854 I've got two deceased persons. 15 00:00:31,855 --> 00:00:33,779 And I'm challenging you. Make no mistake about it, 16 00:00:33,780 --> 00:00:35,758 I'm going to challenge you! And I'm not done with you! 17 00:00:35,759 --> 00:00:38,294 Can you think of any reason he might want to harm them? 18 00:00:38,295 --> 00:00:40,896 Ray just kept staring at her. 19 00:00:40,897 --> 00:00:43,673 - I'd do anything for her. - How far would that go? 20 00:00:43,674 --> 00:00:44,929 As far as it takes. 21 00:00:44,930 --> 00:00:47,169 Well, let's bring him in, see what he has to say now. 22 00:00:47,170 --> 00:00:48,306 I had a job to do. 23 00:00:48,307 --> 00:00:50,879 I'd stay focused. I had to stick with the facts. 24 00:00:51,832 --> 00:00:53,955 I went into pit bull mode, and I went after him. 25 00:00:53,956 --> 00:00:56,381 I got high. I got crazy. 26 00:00:56,382 --> 00:00:58,650 A couple of people got what they deserved. 27 00:00:58,651 --> 00:01:00,486 By far, the worst thing 28 00:01:00,487 --> 00:01:02,635 anyone can ever remember happening 29 00:01:02,636 --> 00:01:04,161 in this tight community. 30 00:01:04,162 --> 00:01:07,426 To the person or persons that have done this 31 00:01:07,427 --> 00:01:10,028 or anyone that knows anything, 32 00:01:10,029 --> 00:01:13,164 please, I just wish you'd come forward. 33 00:01:14,167 --> 00:01:16,467 Please help us on this. 34 00:01:17,530 --> 00:01:20,530 - Synced and corrected by Firefly - - www.addic7ed.com - 35 00:01:31,903 --> 00:01:35,127 _ 36 00:01:35,128 --> 00:01:37,552 British Settlement is a bedroom community 37 00:01:37,553 --> 00:01:38,887 outside the city of Moncton, 38 00:01:38,888 --> 00:01:40,779 and there had never been a homicide 39 00:01:40,780 --> 00:01:43,781 committed in that area until 1995. 40 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,627 I don't ever forget this. 41 00:01:46,628 --> 00:01:49,765 I'd just got in the office, and the phone rings. 42 00:01:49,766 --> 00:01:52,434 "It's a homicide, Gerry. You need to go right away". 43 00:01:52,435 --> 00:01:55,202 So, picked up my stuff, and away I went. 44 00:02:03,312 --> 00:02:06,581 When I learned that there was a young boy and a mother, 45 00:02:06,582 --> 00:02:08,627 I said: "Okay, this is gonna be a long day". 46 00:02:08,628 --> 00:02:10,709 That's the first thing that went through my mind. 47 00:02:10,710 --> 00:02:11,799 And I remember, I said: 48 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,323 "You know what? This is gonna be a long day". 49 00:02:18,704 --> 00:02:20,327 Hey, Ian! 50 00:02:22,212 --> 00:02:24,003 We got a bad one today. 51 00:02:24,004 --> 00:02:26,022 Yeah. They're inside, both of them. 52 00:02:26,023 --> 00:02:29,525 Mary Lou Barnes and her son, Larry Jr. 53 00:02:34,065 --> 00:02:35,932 Kid's only 12. 54 00:02:37,068 --> 00:02:38,335 What happened to you? 55 00:02:38,336 --> 00:02:42,202 Larry Sr., kid's father, he drove by, saw the cars, 56 00:02:42,203 --> 00:02:43,262 tried to get through to the trailer 57 00:02:43,263 --> 00:02:45,142 before anyone could tell him what happened. 58 00:02:45,143 --> 00:02:46,543 Got a little agitated. 59 00:02:46,544 --> 00:02:47,744 You okay? 60 00:02:47,745 --> 00:02:48,946 Yeah, I'm fine. 61 00:02:48,947 --> 00:02:51,814 Larry, the ex-husband, wanted to get in 62 00:02:51,815 --> 00:02:54,151 and he wanted to see what was going on. 63 00:02:54,152 --> 00:02:56,486 And we just wouldn't allow it. 64 00:02:56,487 --> 00:02:58,451 And so, he became aggressive, 65 00:02:58,452 --> 00:03:01,144 got upset, punched the police officer, 66 00:03:01,145 --> 00:03:02,635 ended up being arrested, 67 00:03:02,636 --> 00:03:05,170 being taken away from the crime scene 68 00:03:05,171 --> 00:03:06,572 and was later released. 69 00:03:06,573 --> 00:03:08,274 Who called this in? 70 00:03:08,275 --> 00:03:10,709 Debbie Ward, Mary Lou's sister. 71 00:03:10,710 --> 00:03:12,636 When Mary Lou didn't show up to work this morning, 72 00:03:12,637 --> 00:03:13,727 Debbie came over. 73 00:03:13,728 --> 00:03:15,411 That's when she found them. 74 00:03:15,412 --> 00:03:16,902 You clear the scene? 75 00:03:16,903 --> 00:03:18,918 Ident's just getting set up. 76 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:20,786 All right, I'm gonna take a look. 77 00:03:20,787 --> 00:03:21,988 You stay here. 78 00:03:21,989 --> 00:03:24,257 No one gets past that tape unless they go through me. 79 00:03:24,258 --> 00:03:25,624 Yes, sir! 80 00:03:26,660 --> 00:03:29,862 Larry Mills was physically aggressive. 81 00:03:29,863 --> 00:03:31,373 He assaulted a police officer. 82 00:03:31,374 --> 00:03:32,931 And he was dominant. 83 00:03:32,932 --> 00:03:35,662 He wanted to control the entire scene 84 00:03:35,663 --> 00:03:37,446 and the entire area. 85 00:03:37,447 --> 00:03:39,670 So, Larry was very, very interesting to me, 86 00:03:39,671 --> 00:03:41,140 right from the get-go. 87 00:03:41,141 --> 00:03:43,181 Very interesting to me from the get-go. 88 00:03:51,218 --> 00:03:54,086 I opened the door, and as I walk in, 89 00:03:54,087 --> 00:03:56,088 the first thing I see, 90 00:03:56,089 --> 00:03:59,157 there's lunch money on the counter... 91 00:04:00,227 --> 00:04:03,028 the coffee pot is ready to go. 92 00:04:03,029 --> 00:04:05,068 There was coffee in it. The water was ready to go. 93 00:04:05,069 --> 00:04:07,109 All you had to do was hit the switch. 94 00:04:10,237 --> 00:04:14,240 And off to my left, there was a young child, a young boy, 95 00:04:14,241 --> 00:04:16,174 on the living-room floor. 96 00:04:16,175 --> 00:04:18,777 And that was the deceased boy. 97 00:04:21,900 --> 00:04:25,726 The child was lying on his stomach. 98 00:04:25,727 --> 00:04:28,461 He was tied off with nylons. 99 00:04:29,617 --> 00:04:31,517 The body was twisted a bit. 100 00:04:32,425 --> 00:04:36,027 And it was obvious the child had been strangled. 101 00:04:58,218 --> 00:05:00,685 So, I walk into the boy's room. 102 00:05:01,637 --> 00:05:03,961 There doesn't appear to be any scuffle. 103 00:05:03,962 --> 00:05:05,962 Everything's nice and neat and tidy. 104 00:05:15,140 --> 00:05:18,304 Why did the boy come out of the room? 105 00:05:18,305 --> 00:05:21,173 What instigated him to come out of the room? 106 00:05:21,174 --> 00:05:22,999 Mom? 107 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:25,087 Did he hear yelling? Did he hear noise? 108 00:05:25,088 --> 00:05:28,981 Did he hear his mom screaming? Was there a fight? 109 00:05:28,982 --> 00:05:33,152 Something brought that boy out of his bedroom. 110 00:05:37,509 --> 00:05:39,666 And as I walk from the bedroom 111 00:05:39,667 --> 00:05:41,608 and I come into the hallway and the kitchen, 112 00:05:41,609 --> 00:05:44,463 and I imagine what he's seen... 113 00:05:59,946 --> 00:06:03,015 And as I get into Mary Lou's bedroom, 114 00:06:03,016 --> 00:06:07,752 I see there was definitely signs of a struggle or of a fight. 115 00:06:11,224 --> 00:06:15,093 Mary Lou was lying face down on the bed. 116 00:06:15,094 --> 00:06:19,632 There was some blunt-force trauma to her body. 117 00:06:19,633 --> 00:06:23,169 And she had been strangled and tied off with nylons, 118 00:06:23,170 --> 00:06:25,370 and aggressively tied off. 119 00:06:26,486 --> 00:06:28,975 And that knot was so tight, 120 00:06:28,976 --> 00:06:32,011 there had to have been skin DNA, skin cells, 121 00:06:32,913 --> 00:06:36,649 blood residue from the victim and/or the perpetrator. 122 00:06:36,650 --> 00:06:39,317 Valuable, valuable information there 123 00:06:39,318 --> 00:06:41,587 that would be extremely important 124 00:06:41,588 --> 00:06:43,922 to investigators down the road. 125 00:06:45,525 --> 00:06:47,549 For me, it looked like a crime of passion, 126 00:06:47,550 --> 00:06:50,953 where somebody was really, really upset with Mary Lou. 127 00:07:01,942 --> 00:07:04,320 It's unfortunate, but Larry Jr. was just a kid, 128 00:07:04,321 --> 00:07:06,178 just an 11-year-old boy. 129 00:07:06,179 --> 00:07:08,225 And it's very, very possible 130 00:07:08,226 --> 00:07:10,750 that the perpetrator knew that he was a witness 131 00:07:10,751 --> 00:07:12,751 and had no choice but to kill him. 132 00:07:14,287 --> 00:07:17,356 I had an 11-year-old boy at home already. 133 00:07:19,493 --> 00:07:22,428 And I had a newborn that was 5 months old. 134 00:07:22,429 --> 00:07:24,336 So there's a bunch of mixed emotions 135 00:07:24,337 --> 00:07:25,570 going through your head. 136 00:07:28,702 --> 00:07:30,970 There's a 39-year-old mother 137 00:07:30,971 --> 00:07:33,439 taking care of her 11-year-old son, 138 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,154 minding their own business, 139 00:07:35,155 --> 00:07:38,243 working hard, making ends meet. 140 00:07:38,244 --> 00:07:40,779 Like, what the hell happened here? 141 00:07:56,062 --> 00:07:58,597 You see the pantyhose in there? 142 00:07:58,598 --> 00:07:59,622 Yeah. 143 00:07:59,623 --> 00:08:01,365 I want to make sure that stays out of the papers. 144 00:08:01,366 --> 00:08:02,833 We gotta keep it quiet. 145 00:08:03,537 --> 00:08:04,804 Sure. 146 00:08:04,805 --> 00:08:07,338 Where did you say, uh, Debbie Ward was? 147 00:08:09,142 --> 00:08:10,810 Okay, thanks, man. 148 00:08:10,811 --> 00:08:13,867 Debbie Ward is the half-sister of the victim. 149 00:08:13,868 --> 00:08:16,815 She's the one that had received the phone call 150 00:08:16,816 --> 00:08:19,151 because Mary Lou had not shown up for work. 151 00:08:19,152 --> 00:08:20,418 Mrs. Ward... 152 00:08:22,555 --> 00:08:25,056 I'm, uh, I'm so sorry for your loss. 153 00:08:27,694 --> 00:08:29,661 She was a good person. 154 00:08:31,631 --> 00:08:33,198 A great mom and... 155 00:08:35,168 --> 00:08:38,169 And Larry Jr. was just this amazing kid. 156 00:08:39,172 --> 00:08:42,174 When was the last time you spoke to her? 157 00:08:42,175 --> 00:08:44,777 Um, last night... 158 00:08:44,778 --> 00:08:48,413 ... around, uh, around 9:00. 159 00:08:49,197 --> 00:08:50,797 When you spoke to her... 160 00:08:52,652 --> 00:08:55,788 did she mention if she had plans later or was seeing anyone, 161 00:08:55,789 --> 00:08:57,055 anything like that? 162 00:08:58,099 --> 00:09:02,792 Her... her ex, Larry Sr., came by to drop off Larry Jr. 163 00:09:02,793 --> 00:09:04,593 But that's it. 164 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,558 What was their relationship like, 165 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:08,782 her and her ex? 166 00:09:08,783 --> 00:09:12,060 They were trying to be good parents to Larry Jr. 167 00:09:12,061 --> 00:09:14,685 They, uh, they went through a lot, you know. 168 00:09:14,686 --> 00:09:18,145 They lost two babies that didn't live long after they were born. 169 00:09:18,146 --> 00:09:20,730 It was really hard on them. 170 00:09:20,731 --> 00:09:22,264 Why did they split up? 171 00:09:23,391 --> 00:09:26,750 He was cheating on her with, uh, Cathy Cole. 172 00:09:26,751 --> 00:09:29,376 They live together now. 173 00:09:29,377 --> 00:09:32,711 She runs that house for, um, special care, 174 00:09:32,712 --> 00:09:36,047 you know, uh, people with mental illness. 175 00:09:38,498 --> 00:09:39,898 Do you think that... 176 00:09:41,100 --> 00:09:44,235 do you think Larry would ever... ever hurt Mary Lou? 177 00:09:47,774 --> 00:09:49,475 They had their problems. 178 00:09:50,510 --> 00:09:52,177 You know, they would argue a lot, 179 00:09:52,178 --> 00:09:53,779 and... and Larry Sr. could be loud. 180 00:09:53,780 --> 00:09:55,848 He had a temper, 181 00:09:55,849 --> 00:09:58,783 but she wasn't scared of him. 182 00:09:59,494 --> 00:10:00,851 As a matter of fact, 183 00:10:00,852 --> 00:10:04,122 Debbie said he never, never slapped or beat his wife 184 00:10:04,123 --> 00:10:06,125 or never hurt his son. 185 00:10:06,126 --> 00:10:07,392 Thank you. 186 00:10:07,393 --> 00:10:10,529 But that doesn't mean that human beings 187 00:10:10,530 --> 00:10:11,932 can't do those things. 188 00:10:11,933 --> 00:10:14,424 And so, in my mind, I just deleted that. 189 00:10:14,425 --> 00:10:15,651 That meant nothing to me, 190 00:10:15,652 --> 00:10:18,877 just because Debbie had an impression or perspective on it. 191 00:10:18,878 --> 00:10:21,645 Nice to know, but not good enough for me. 192 00:10:23,050 --> 00:10:24,541 Did you get anything from Mills? 193 00:10:24,542 --> 00:10:25,964 He seemed pretty torn up. 194 00:10:25,965 --> 00:10:27,156 They called Larry Jr. "Rare" 195 00:10:27,157 --> 00:10:28,814 because of the other kids. 196 00:10:28,815 --> 00:10:30,015 They think he's a miracle. 197 00:10:30,016 --> 00:10:32,684 Did he confirm that he dropped Larry Jr.? 198 00:10:32,685 --> 00:10:35,821 Yeah, except he didn't see or talk to Mary Lou. 199 00:10:35,822 --> 00:10:37,981 He just dropped him off and watched him go inside. 200 00:10:37,982 --> 00:10:41,006 Apparently, him and Mary Lou have been arguing a lot lately. 201 00:10:41,007 --> 00:10:43,499 Mills didn't want to stir the pot. 202 00:10:43,500 --> 00:10:46,026 "Arguing a lot lately". 203 00:10:46,027 --> 00:10:47,317 Yeah. 204 00:10:47,318 --> 00:10:49,835 I said: "There's our number one right there 205 00:10:49,836 --> 00:10:50,970 we need to look at". 206 00:10:50,971 --> 00:10:52,237 That's a no-brainer. 207 00:10:52,238 --> 00:10:54,198 I said: "We need to look at him". 208 00:10:54,914 --> 00:10:56,804 So we honed in on him first. 209 00:11:09,589 --> 00:11:10,721 Who the hell are you? 210 00:11:13,592 --> 00:11:16,996 Gerry Belliveau, RCMP. 211 00:11:16,997 --> 00:11:18,886 I heard you wanted to speak with one of us. 212 00:11:18,887 --> 00:11:21,178 Yeah, what's going on with my kid's case? 213 00:11:21,179 --> 00:11:23,735 What are you doing about Larry Jr.? 214 00:11:23,736 --> 00:11:26,331 Verbally aggressive and dominant. 215 00:11:26,332 --> 00:11:28,109 If he spoke, we had to listen. 216 00:11:28,110 --> 00:11:30,075 If we had something to say, shut up. 217 00:11:30,076 --> 00:11:31,543 We're working hard. 218 00:11:31,544 --> 00:11:33,045 I'll update you as soon as we have 219 00:11:33,046 --> 00:11:34,346 something we can share, but... 220 00:11:34,347 --> 00:11:36,907 What the hell are you good for? 221 00:11:40,553 --> 00:11:41,954 He was freaking arrogant! 222 00:11:41,955 --> 00:11:43,936 He came across to me as the type of guy 223 00:11:43,937 --> 00:11:46,212 that would do what he wanted and when he wanted 224 00:11:46,213 --> 00:11:47,826 to suit his own needs, 225 00:11:47,827 --> 00:11:50,211 including getting pissed off with his ex-spouse 226 00:11:50,212 --> 00:11:51,944 and doing something stupid. 227 00:11:52,472 --> 00:11:54,572 We had to have our team put together, 228 00:11:54,573 --> 00:11:55,855 a surveillance team put together, 229 00:11:55,856 --> 00:11:57,436 to kind of babysit him and watch him 230 00:11:57,437 --> 00:11:58,837 and see what was happening. 231 00:11:59,989 --> 00:12:02,280 37-year-old Mary Lou Barnes 232 00:12:02,281 --> 00:12:04,576 and her son Larry have lived alone in this house 233 00:12:04,577 --> 00:12:06,984 since she split up with her common-law husband 234 00:12:06,985 --> 00:12:09,048 earlier this year. 235 00:12:09,049 --> 00:12:10,983 Racked in grief and despair, 236 00:12:10,984 --> 00:12:14,113 Larry Mills talks of the life wrenched from him, 237 00:12:14,114 --> 00:12:16,271 his only son, Larry Jr. 238 00:12:16,272 --> 00:12:18,089 To the person or persons... 239 00:12:19,225 --> 00:12:20,392 that have done this... 240 00:12:20,393 --> 00:12:22,284 Now, I remember, I was in the office 241 00:12:22,285 --> 00:12:23,694 with the rest of the investigative team, 242 00:12:23,695 --> 00:12:25,518 and we were watching the news clip. 243 00:12:25,519 --> 00:12:27,610 Poor Larry had tears coming out of his eyes, 244 00:12:27,611 --> 00:12:29,302 you know, on TV in front of the camera. 245 00:12:29,303 --> 00:12:31,903 And I say: "Look at him. I've seen this before. 246 00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:34,895 Guys, don't get sucked in. Don't get conned in". 247 00:12:34,896 --> 00:12:37,287 ... or anyone that knows anything, 248 00:12:37,288 --> 00:12:40,322 please, please help us on this. 249 00:12:41,881 --> 00:12:44,283 It didn't take Larry off the hook. 250 00:12:44,284 --> 00:12:45,750 Not at all. 251 00:12:51,053 --> 00:12:53,224 I had a job to do. I'd stay focused. 252 00:12:53,225 --> 00:12:54,893 I had to stick with the facts. 253 00:12:54,894 --> 00:12:57,896 They've taken my life away. 254 00:12:57,897 --> 00:12:59,631 What am I gonna do? 255 00:12:59,632 --> 00:13:01,300 And then I sat back, said: 256 00:13:01,301 --> 00:13:03,285 "Okay, he's pissed off with his ex-wife 257 00:13:03,286 --> 00:13:06,238 to the point where he wants her eliminated. 258 00:13:06,239 --> 00:13:08,374 But why the boy?" 259 00:13:08,375 --> 00:13:11,510 He was a miracle child, as it was. 260 00:13:11,511 --> 00:13:14,579 Now he's gone. He's been taken from me. 261 00:13:14,580 --> 00:13:16,782 How do I get that back? 262 00:13:16,783 --> 00:13:18,350 When I got to the office, 263 00:13:18,351 --> 00:13:20,585 I immediately asked the investigators 264 00:13:20,586 --> 00:13:24,505 to gather as much information as we possibly could on Larry. 265 00:13:24,506 --> 00:13:27,446 Everybody said: "Larry loved his son". 266 00:13:27,447 --> 00:13:30,605 He truly loved his son. And he loved his ex-wife. 267 00:13:30,606 --> 00:13:31,972 But I didn't know that. 268 00:13:33,433 --> 00:13:36,802 I reviewed the interview. I reviewed my notes. 269 00:13:36,803 --> 00:13:40,806 And I took a step back on Larry. 270 00:13:40,807 --> 00:13:44,443 Cause of death: asphyxiation for both. 271 00:13:44,444 --> 00:13:45,766 Sexual assault? 272 00:13:45,767 --> 00:13:46,958 It's hard to tell. 273 00:13:46,959 --> 00:13:48,792 Mary Lou may have been assaulted, 274 00:13:48,793 --> 00:13:51,683 but there was no semen found on the body. 275 00:13:51,684 --> 00:13:53,752 It's possible the killer was interrupted. 276 00:13:53,753 --> 00:13:57,284 There were traces of semen on the bed sheets, though. 277 00:13:57,285 --> 00:13:59,558 Let's check those. What about the pantyhose? 278 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,027 There was DNA left behind, 279 00:14:02,028 --> 00:14:03,710 just like you thought. 280 00:14:03,711 --> 00:14:04,935 Probably his skin cells 281 00:14:04,936 --> 00:14:07,051 from when the killer pulled the pantyhose tight. 282 00:14:07,052 --> 00:14:09,719 But there was a second source of DNA on the pantyhose: 283 00:14:10,436 --> 00:14:11,703 Mary Lou's skin cells. 284 00:14:11,704 --> 00:14:14,709 We can't seem to separate her DNA from the killer's. 285 00:14:14,710 --> 00:14:16,008 It's all mixed together. 286 00:14:16,009 --> 00:14:18,109 What... what... What are you saying to me? 287 00:14:18,110 --> 00:14:21,513 If we can't isolate the killer's DNA from Mary Lou's, 288 00:14:21,514 --> 00:14:23,658 we have nothing to compare any sample to, 289 00:14:23,659 --> 00:14:25,559 nothing that will hold up in court. 290 00:14:26,644 --> 00:14:29,736 You've got male DNA, female DNA, and it's mixed. 291 00:14:29,737 --> 00:14:31,694 So, you have a liquid cup of coffee, 292 00:14:31,695 --> 00:14:34,481 and you know I put 3 teaspoons of tea in there. 293 00:14:34,482 --> 00:14:35,839 So, I go to you and I say: 294 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,464 "Okay, I want you to take the tea out of that coffee". 295 00:14:38,465 --> 00:14:40,529 You can't, because it's mixed. 296 00:14:40,530 --> 00:14:43,308 You don't have a technology to go in specifically 297 00:14:43,309 --> 00:14:45,938 and take out 3 teaspoons of tea that's mixed in with the coffee, 298 00:14:45,939 --> 00:14:47,406 because it's now one liquid. 299 00:14:47,407 --> 00:14:50,943 The scientists of the day in 1995 300 00:14:50,944 --> 00:14:55,213 could not separate the male DNA from Mary Lou's female DNA. 301 00:14:55,214 --> 00:14:56,748 So, what else are we gonna do? 302 00:14:56,749 --> 00:14:59,217 What else am I gonna do now to move the file forward? 303 00:14:59,218 --> 00:15:01,915 What did we get from the neighbourhood canvas? 304 00:15:01,916 --> 00:15:05,624 Neighbours mentioned a man: Martin Lowrey. 305 00:15:05,625 --> 00:15:09,561 No fixed address, seen sneaking around in backyards recently. 306 00:15:09,562 --> 00:15:11,697 He was at Mary Lou's the day of the murder. 307 00:15:11,698 --> 00:15:12,830 Do you know this guy? 308 00:15:12,831 --> 00:15:14,766 Yeah, he's been in trouble over the years. 309 00:15:14,767 --> 00:15:17,635 And get his: he used to stay at the Home for Special Care. 310 00:15:18,671 --> 00:15:20,772 - Cathy Cole's place? - Correct. 311 00:15:20,773 --> 00:15:22,641 Cole and Mills lived there too. 312 00:15:22,642 --> 00:15:25,202 Apparently, Lowrey had a thing for Cathy. 313 00:15:26,045 --> 00:15:28,113 All right, what else do we have? 314 00:15:28,114 --> 00:15:31,349 Neighbours also mentioned a man named Cameron Dahl... 315 00:15:32,418 --> 00:15:34,653 seen around Mary Lou's most weekends. 316 00:15:34,654 --> 00:15:37,134 They think he was her boyfriend. 317 00:15:38,591 --> 00:15:40,859 - There was a boyfriend? - Correct. 318 00:15:40,860 --> 00:15:43,595 He used to talk about her, brag about how she was in bed. 319 00:15:43,596 --> 00:15:46,497 Well, let's bring him in, see what he has to say now. 320 00:15:48,601 --> 00:15:50,802 I find out from a witness that, 321 00:15:50,803 --> 00:15:53,404 that morning, Cameron had driven by, 322 00:15:53,405 --> 00:15:57,666 saw the activity at the crime scene and took off. 323 00:15:57,667 --> 00:15:59,144 Didn't stop. Didn't ask questions. 324 00:15:59,145 --> 00:16:00,635 Didn't do a: "What's going on?" 325 00:16:00,636 --> 00:16:01,636 Just took off. 326 00:16:10,685 --> 00:16:12,207 I'd like to ask you a few questions 327 00:16:12,208 --> 00:16:15,543 about your relationship with Mary... Mary Lou Barnes. 328 00:16:16,495 --> 00:16:19,364 When was the last time that you saw her? 329 00:16:19,365 --> 00:16:21,767 Last weekend? 330 00:16:21,768 --> 00:16:23,768 I stopped by. 331 00:16:25,638 --> 00:16:27,365 Did you speak to her on November 5? 332 00:16:27,366 --> 00:16:29,123 A phone call, anything like that? 333 00:16:29,124 --> 00:16:30,481 No. 334 00:16:30,482 --> 00:16:33,574 No, I was supposed to go over, 335 00:16:33,575 --> 00:16:35,798 but I changed my mind. 336 00:16:35,799 --> 00:16:38,383 You changed your mind? 337 00:16:38,384 --> 00:16:41,119 What did you do instead? 338 00:16:43,656 --> 00:16:45,791 I just stayed home. 339 00:16:45,792 --> 00:16:49,061 You decided to skip a date with her 340 00:16:49,062 --> 00:16:51,028 to stay home alone? 341 00:16:53,283 --> 00:16:55,373 It made no sense to me. 342 00:16:55,374 --> 00:16:57,686 "This stinks. There's something wrong here". 343 00:16:57,687 --> 00:17:00,378 Cameron was supposed to be, in fact, at the house 344 00:17:00,379 --> 00:17:01,736 on that Sunday night 345 00:17:01,737 --> 00:17:03,937 and opted not to be there Sunday night. 346 00:17:04,543 --> 00:17:09,147 But drives by Monday morning and doesn't stop. 347 00:17:09,148 --> 00:17:11,083 That was his girlfriend. 348 00:17:11,084 --> 00:17:13,660 And nobody, nobody reacts that way. 349 00:17:13,661 --> 00:17:16,152 No normal person should be reacting that way. 350 00:17:16,153 --> 00:17:18,542 Your normal instincts are to stop to find out: 351 00:17:18,543 --> 00:17:19,933 "What's going on? Where's my girlfriend? 352 00:17:19,934 --> 00:17:20,974 What happened here?" 353 00:17:22,695 --> 00:17:25,163 And he just didn't want to know, couldn't care less? 354 00:17:25,164 --> 00:17:27,365 "I'm just gonna move on and do my little thing"? 355 00:17:27,366 --> 00:17:29,701 Didn't work. It didn't cut it. 356 00:17:29,702 --> 00:17:31,837 Maybe you didn't mean to hurt her. 357 00:17:31,838 --> 00:17:35,019 Maybe you go over there, you're looking for a good time. 358 00:17:35,020 --> 00:17:36,975 That's not what happened. 359 00:17:36,976 --> 00:17:39,512 Maybe she's... she's not in the mood. 360 00:17:39,513 --> 00:17:40,736 It wasn't like that. 361 00:17:40,737 --> 00:17:43,823 Maybe you wait until little Larry goes to bed. 362 00:17:43,824 --> 00:17:46,585 - Please. - And you can do whatever you want. 363 00:17:46,586 --> 00:17:48,186 Please, man! 364 00:17:48,187 --> 00:17:50,122 He's hiding something! 365 00:17:50,123 --> 00:17:52,290 I've got two deceased persons. 366 00:17:52,291 --> 00:17:53,688 You're the boyfriend. 367 00:17:53,689 --> 00:17:55,972 You ran away from that place that morning. 368 00:17:55,973 --> 00:17:57,133 You didn't want to stop. 369 00:17:57,134 --> 00:17:59,552 I've got you here, and I'm challenging you. 370 00:17:59,553 --> 00:18:01,333 Make no mistake about it, I'm going to challenge you. 371 00:18:01,334 --> 00:18:02,633 And I'm not done with you! 372 00:18:03,569 --> 00:18:05,139 Okay, I... I didn't hurt her, man. 373 00:18:05,140 --> 00:18:07,297 I... I would never hurt anybody. 374 00:18:07,298 --> 00:18:09,490 Please, just let... let me prove it to you, okay? 375 00:18:09,491 --> 00:18:11,014 I... I could take a lie detector. 376 00:18:11,015 --> 00:18:13,558 You could take my DNA! Do the test! 377 00:18:13,559 --> 00:18:14,725 Take whatever you want! 378 00:18:19,685 --> 00:18:22,687 And so, Cameron came in for a lie-detector test. 379 00:18:22,688 --> 00:18:25,490 Polygraph just came back. It came back a pass. 380 00:18:25,491 --> 00:18:27,793 - Dahl was telling the truth. - Great. 381 00:18:29,362 --> 00:18:32,339 A polygraph test, it's a tool. 382 00:18:32,340 --> 00:18:33,686 It's a good baseline 383 00:18:33,687 --> 00:18:36,601 if we're going in the right direction or not. 384 00:18:36,602 --> 00:18:38,059 I do have some better news. 385 00:18:39,151 --> 00:18:41,108 Got a fixed location on Martin Lowrey, 386 00:18:41,109 --> 00:18:43,427 the guy that was snooping around in backyards. 387 00:18:43,428 --> 00:18:46,196 He's living rough just outside of Moncton. 388 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:48,613 Thanks. 389 00:18:48,614 --> 00:18:50,247 Drive safe! 390 00:18:52,118 --> 00:18:56,054 Not only was Martin Lowrey seen hanging around Mary Lou's 391 00:18:56,055 --> 00:18:57,455 the day of the murders, 392 00:18:57,456 --> 00:19:00,291 he was infatuated with Cathy Cole. 393 00:19:00,292 --> 00:19:04,629 Well, Cathy Cole's new boyfriend is Larry, 394 00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:06,097 is Larry Mills. 395 00:19:09,134 --> 00:19:12,003 So, did Martin have something to do with this? 396 00:19:13,089 --> 00:19:14,421 Mr. Lowrey? 397 00:19:15,274 --> 00:19:19,211 Sergeant Belliveau, RCMP. 398 00:19:19,212 --> 00:19:21,792 I'd like to ask you a few questions, if you don't mind. 399 00:19:21,793 --> 00:19:23,149 Okay. 400 00:19:23,150 --> 00:19:24,817 Let's take a walk. 401 00:19:26,351 --> 00:19:28,620 It's regarding Mary Lou Barnes. 402 00:19:28,621 --> 00:19:30,021 Who? 403 00:19:30,022 --> 00:19:31,390 Mary Lou Barnes. 404 00:19:31,391 --> 00:19:34,358 You were spotted in her backyard November 5, 405 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,094 and a few other backyards in the neighbourhood too. 406 00:19:37,095 --> 00:19:39,364 I like to wander around a bit, 407 00:19:39,365 --> 00:19:41,015 see what people are up to. 408 00:19:41,016 --> 00:19:43,101 Not hurting anybody. 409 00:19:43,102 --> 00:19:45,904 Well, Mary Lou and her son, they were hurt. 410 00:19:45,905 --> 00:19:48,139 I don't know nothing about that. 411 00:19:48,140 --> 00:19:49,908 But you were in the area? 412 00:19:49,909 --> 00:19:52,110 Sure, I used to stay over there. 413 00:19:52,111 --> 00:19:53,891 Oh, at the Home for Special Care, 414 00:19:53,892 --> 00:19:55,379 Cathy Cole's place? 415 00:19:55,380 --> 00:19:56,715 Yeah. 416 00:19:56,716 --> 00:19:59,317 Cathy, she was nice to me. 417 00:19:59,318 --> 00:20:02,620 She deserved better than that guy she's with. 418 00:20:03,506 --> 00:20:05,496 - Larry Mills Sr.? - Yeah. 419 00:20:05,497 --> 00:20:07,522 I don't like him. Nobody likes him. 420 00:20:07,523 --> 00:20:10,357 Well, it was his family that was killed. 421 00:20:11,530 --> 00:20:13,698 You should ask him about that. 422 00:20:13,699 --> 00:20:14,999 Bet you he did it. 423 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,400 He gets mad. 424 00:20:16,401 --> 00:20:19,337 He hated Larry. He hated Larry and he was scared of Larry. 425 00:20:19,338 --> 00:20:22,007 "He's the ex-husband. It's probably him. 426 00:20:22,008 --> 00:20:25,210 He's the ex-husband. Well, why are you asking me?" 427 00:20:25,211 --> 00:20:28,813 So, he was deflecting and trying to blame Larry. 428 00:20:28,814 --> 00:20:30,682 He thought I had a thing for Cathy. 429 00:20:30,683 --> 00:20:31,750 Did you? 430 00:20:31,751 --> 00:20:33,852 She's my friend. 431 00:20:33,853 --> 00:20:35,753 I'd do anything for her. 432 00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:39,156 How far would that go? 433 00:20:40,759 --> 00:20:42,693 Far as it takes. 434 00:20:43,608 --> 00:20:46,965 So, did Martin have something to do with this? 435 00:20:46,966 --> 00:20:50,167 Was he upset because Cathy's got a new boyfriend, 436 00:20:50,168 --> 00:20:53,305 and he wants to get back at the new boyfriend, 437 00:20:53,306 --> 00:20:55,072 being Larry? 438 00:20:55,073 --> 00:20:56,508 I thank him. 439 00:20:56,509 --> 00:21:01,313 I give him a pack of smokes, and he goes on his merry way. 440 00:21:01,314 --> 00:21:03,381 I said: "We need to look at him". 441 00:21:05,852 --> 00:21:07,719 That same night, 442 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,857 Martin jumps in front of a truck and commits suicide. 443 00:21:19,398 --> 00:21:23,033 I had just interviewed him about 6 hours ago. 444 00:21:29,479 --> 00:21:31,703 It was almost like a guilt trip, where: 445 00:21:31,704 --> 00:21:34,179 "Okay, I gotta kill myself because they're gonna get me. 446 00:21:34,180 --> 00:21:36,881 They talked to me today, and they're gonna get me". 447 00:21:38,769 --> 00:21:40,927 What does that mean? 448 00:21:40,928 --> 00:21:42,753 Why today? Why now? 449 00:21:45,026 --> 00:21:47,384 What is he involved in in this file? 450 00:21:47,385 --> 00:21:50,343 What role did he play? Did he play a role? 451 00:21:50,344 --> 00:21:53,364 We need to clean this up and find out what's going on here. 452 00:21:58,304 --> 00:21:59,905 Martin jumps in front of a truck 453 00:21:59,906 --> 00:22:01,773 and commits suicide. 454 00:22:01,774 --> 00:22:05,242 Now, did this happen because he knows something? 455 00:22:05,243 --> 00:22:07,045 Is he involved? 456 00:22:07,046 --> 00:22:10,982 Or is he not involved at all, and he just has issues? 457 00:22:10,983 --> 00:22:12,384 Hey, Gerry! 458 00:22:12,385 --> 00:22:13,718 What's up? 459 00:22:13,719 --> 00:22:15,520 I've got a woman waiting for you. 460 00:22:15,521 --> 00:22:16,577 Name's Vicki White. 461 00:22:16,578 --> 00:22:18,536 She wants to talk about her husband Ray. 462 00:22:18,537 --> 00:22:20,894 This lady comes to the office. Her name's Vicki. 463 00:22:20,895 --> 00:22:23,595 "My husband took off, and he's got a loaded gun. 464 00:22:23,596 --> 00:22:24,729 He's in a..." 465 00:22:24,730 --> 00:22:26,735 "Whoa, slow down, Vicki. Start this over again. 466 00:22:26,736 --> 00:22:28,226 Who's your husband, first of all?" 467 00:22:28,227 --> 00:22:30,451 "My husband's name is Ray, Ray White". 468 00:22:30,452 --> 00:22:32,810 He was going to pick our daughter up at school, 469 00:22:32,811 --> 00:22:34,271 but he never showed up. 470 00:22:34,272 --> 00:22:37,408 He took my car, my credit card and, uh... 471 00:22:39,345 --> 00:22:41,212 ... and a gun. 472 00:22:41,213 --> 00:22:42,814 His .22. 473 00:22:42,815 --> 00:22:45,683 Do you know of any reason why he might leave or... 474 00:22:48,487 --> 00:22:50,087 I, uh... 475 00:22:51,594 --> 00:22:54,195 I'm scared he might have done something terrible. 476 00:22:55,461 --> 00:22:57,127 I saw on the news, uh... 477 00:22:58,230 --> 00:23:00,031 Mary Lou? 478 00:23:00,032 --> 00:23:02,633 And her poor child. I... 479 00:23:03,603 --> 00:23:05,102 Do you know them? 480 00:23:06,606 --> 00:23:08,440 I knew Mary Lou. 481 00:23:08,441 --> 00:23:09,974 We worked together. 482 00:23:09,975 --> 00:23:11,776 Does Ray know her? 483 00:23:11,777 --> 00:23:14,646 I think he drove us both to work a few times. 484 00:23:14,647 --> 00:23:17,848 I remember one night, we were both at the bar. 485 00:23:17,849 --> 00:23:20,951 Uh... Mary Lou was there too. 486 00:23:22,655 --> 00:23:24,588 Ray just kept... 487 00:23:25,724 --> 00:23:27,458 staring at her. 488 00:23:27,459 --> 00:23:30,828 Can you think of any reason why he might want to harm them? 489 00:23:31,931 --> 00:23:34,451 Where was he Sunday night? 490 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,899 Out with friends at the bar. 491 00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:38,857 That's what he said. 492 00:23:38,858 --> 00:23:41,082 This came out of the blue, 493 00:23:41,083 --> 00:23:44,817 absolutely out of the blue. 494 00:23:44,818 --> 00:23:46,908 No idea what was going on here. 495 00:23:46,909 --> 00:23:49,133 Ray was not on our radar. 496 00:23:49,134 --> 00:23:51,225 No idea who Ray White was. 497 00:23:51,226 --> 00:23:53,882 And this Vicki walked and gives us a story. 498 00:23:53,883 --> 00:23:55,553 Well, I thought that was gold. 499 00:23:55,554 --> 00:23:59,290 That's when we started doing background on Ray White. 500 00:23:59,291 --> 00:24:01,426 What do we know about Ray White? 501 00:24:01,427 --> 00:24:03,825 Raymond White: Originally from BC. 502 00:24:03,826 --> 00:24:05,096 Came here a few years ago, 503 00:24:05,097 --> 00:24:06,898 and the trouble started right up: 504 00:24:06,899 --> 00:24:09,214 drugs, violence, armed robbery... 505 00:24:09,215 --> 00:24:12,517 Put in about 20 years in prison, on and off. 506 00:24:13,887 --> 00:24:17,647 Ray White was a serious and a hardcore criminal. 507 00:24:17,648 --> 00:24:20,482 We were able to track him down fairly quick. 508 00:24:27,220 --> 00:24:28,980 - Shit! - Don't bother. 509 00:24:31,995 --> 00:24:33,852 Ray White, you are under arrest. 510 00:24:33,853 --> 00:24:37,400 So, Ray was arrested there for possession of firearms. 511 00:24:37,401 --> 00:24:39,654 You can call an attorney when we get to the station... 512 00:24:39,655 --> 00:24:43,429 Forget all that. Let's just get this over with, all right? 513 00:24:45,388 --> 00:24:46,678 The first thing he says is: 514 00:24:46,679 --> 00:24:49,604 "Never mind this BS. I'll tell you everything". 515 00:24:49,605 --> 00:24:50,885 Come on. 516 00:24:54,291 --> 00:24:56,015 Of course, we're all excited now. 517 00:24:56,016 --> 00:24:59,084 The gig's up. At least, we feel the gig's up. 518 00:25:04,322 --> 00:25:07,492 So, Ray ends up at this pizzeria, 519 00:25:07,493 --> 00:25:08,692 and we locate him. 520 00:25:08,693 --> 00:25:11,028 As he walks out of the restaurant, 521 00:25:11,029 --> 00:25:12,830 we take him down right there. 522 00:25:12,831 --> 00:25:16,568 He was arrested there for possession of firearms. 523 00:25:27,246 --> 00:25:28,371 So, we get back, 524 00:25:28,372 --> 00:25:34,318 and Ray insists that he wants to speak to a female RCMP officer. 525 00:25:36,454 --> 00:25:37,588 Ray... 526 00:25:38,924 --> 00:25:40,057 Hey. 527 00:25:43,528 --> 00:25:45,677 What do you know about the murders of Mary Lou Barnes 528 00:25:45,678 --> 00:25:46,958 and Larry Mills Jr.? 529 00:25:51,157 --> 00:25:54,292 It was a hit, uh, a contract. 530 00:25:56,074 --> 00:25:57,742 On a mother and a child? 531 00:25:57,743 --> 00:25:59,143 How do you know this? 532 00:26:02,214 --> 00:26:04,248 I met the guy who did it. 533 00:26:05,885 --> 00:26:07,752 He didn't tell me much. 534 00:26:10,623 --> 00:26:14,491 But I got the sense that he was there for the woman. 535 00:26:14,492 --> 00:26:18,296 He didn't know the kid was gonna be there. 536 00:26:18,297 --> 00:26:21,633 So when he walked into the bedroom 537 00:26:21,634 --> 00:26:24,201 and saw what was happening... 538 00:26:27,306 --> 00:26:29,473 ... he had to go. 539 00:26:31,844 --> 00:26:34,411 He strangled him too. 540 00:26:35,981 --> 00:26:37,815 Who is this guy? 541 00:26:39,451 --> 00:26:40,785 I ain't saying. 542 00:26:40,786 --> 00:26:43,054 Because I don't want the same thing to happen 543 00:26:43,055 --> 00:26:44,121 to my wife and kid. 544 00:26:44,122 --> 00:26:47,157 He just... he just told you all of this? 545 00:26:49,361 --> 00:26:51,128 I was selling him some coke, 546 00:26:51,129 --> 00:26:54,465 and he was trying to pay with this gold chain. 547 00:26:54,466 --> 00:26:56,123 Said he took it from the victim, 548 00:26:56,124 --> 00:27:01,505 like a bonus payment for killing two people instead of just one. 549 00:27:02,608 --> 00:27:04,508 What about the chain? 550 00:27:04,509 --> 00:27:08,779 It was big. Close links. Uh... 551 00:27:10,416 --> 00:27:11,749 About this long. 552 00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:13,932 Looked expensive. 553 00:27:13,933 --> 00:27:15,133 Real expensive. 554 00:27:16,966 --> 00:27:19,624 When we went to Mary Lou's mobile home, 555 00:27:19,625 --> 00:27:22,193 we had seized all the jewellery that was there. 556 00:27:22,194 --> 00:27:24,094 If we were able to confirm 557 00:27:24,095 --> 00:27:26,416 that, in fact, there was a gold chain missing, 558 00:27:26,417 --> 00:27:29,885 we knew that we were onto something with Ray White. 559 00:27:30,481 --> 00:27:33,449 We went back to Larry Mills. 560 00:27:35,227 --> 00:27:36,851 I approached Larry, and I said: 561 00:27:36,852 --> 00:27:39,310 "You know, Larry, we didn't start off on a good foot". 562 00:27:39,311 --> 00:27:41,174 Larry said: "No, Gerry, we didn't. 563 00:27:41,175 --> 00:27:42,475 "It didn't go well at all. 564 00:27:42,476 --> 00:27:44,613 "As a matter of fact, I hated you, and you hated me". 565 00:27:44,614 --> 00:27:46,918 I said: "Larry, maybe you hated me more than I hated you". 566 00:27:46,919 --> 00:27:50,080 So now, we're not friends in any way, shape or form. 567 00:27:50,081 --> 00:27:51,722 But he's starting to warm up a bit to me. 568 00:27:51,723 --> 00:27:54,058 "Oh, Gerry, what's up? What's going on? What are you doing here?" 569 00:27:54,059 --> 00:27:55,793 I'll tell you what I'm doing here, Larry. 570 00:27:55,794 --> 00:27:57,662 I just want to identify this jewellery. 571 00:27:57,663 --> 00:27:59,330 We got a bunch of jewellery here". 572 00:27:59,331 --> 00:28:01,866 That's everything from Mary Lou's bedroom. 573 00:28:01,867 --> 00:28:04,902 Just... just see if you notice anything missing. 574 00:28:08,473 --> 00:28:09,753 Hmm. 575 00:28:11,210 --> 00:28:14,511 I got this before we got married. 576 00:28:17,049 --> 00:28:18,548 She loved that ring. 577 00:28:25,557 --> 00:28:27,591 Where is it? 578 00:28:29,695 --> 00:28:31,395 Is something missing? 579 00:28:31,396 --> 00:28:34,604 Yeah. Where is it? 580 00:28:34,605 --> 00:28:35,762 He's identifying jewellery 581 00:28:35,763 --> 00:28:37,954 and identifying this necklace and this bracelet. 582 00:28:37,955 --> 00:28:39,512 And he says: "Wait a sec!" 583 00:28:39,513 --> 00:28:40,679 He taps the table. 584 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,419 He says: "Where's the goddamn chain?" 585 00:28:44,650 --> 00:28:46,674 - Did you guys take something? - Larry... 586 00:28:46,675 --> 00:28:48,098 Did somebody steal it? 587 00:28:48,099 --> 00:28:49,880 Somebody must have stolen it, right? 588 00:28:49,881 --> 00:28:51,172 She would never take it off. 589 00:28:51,173 --> 00:28:52,930 Just tell me what you're looking for. 590 00:28:52,931 --> 00:28:54,731 A big gold chain. 591 00:28:55,896 --> 00:28:57,921 The necklace that I got for Mary Lou in New York. 592 00:28:57,922 --> 00:29:00,482 And it cost me a bundle too. 593 00:29:01,402 --> 00:29:02,601 It's not here. 594 00:29:02,602 --> 00:29:05,071 "I'm telling you, there's an effin' chain missing, 595 00:29:05,072 --> 00:29:07,273 and Mary Lou never took that chain off. 596 00:29:07,274 --> 00:29:09,342 And so, where's the fricking chain?" 597 00:29:09,343 --> 00:29:12,327 He described it the same way that Ray described it. 598 00:29:12,328 --> 00:29:13,817 But it's not there. 599 00:29:13,818 --> 00:29:15,777 So, we had a meeting back up at the office. 600 00:29:15,778 --> 00:29:19,150 And I said: "Guys, we are onto something". 601 00:29:21,221 --> 00:29:24,824 The next night, Ray's picture is flashed on TV 602 00:29:24,825 --> 00:29:28,161 as he's walking into court for gun charges. 603 00:29:28,162 --> 00:29:30,630 We get a phone call. 604 00:29:30,631 --> 00:29:32,898 "That's not Raymond White. That's Ray Parker. 605 00:29:32,899 --> 00:29:35,701 He tried to sexually assault me a couple of days ago". 606 00:29:36,379 --> 00:29:39,504 Turns out an individual by the name of Ray Parker 607 00:29:39,505 --> 00:29:42,301 played the scenario of the guy wanting to buy a house 608 00:29:42,302 --> 00:29:46,046 and attempted to sexually assault this real-estate lady. 609 00:29:46,047 --> 00:29:47,870 And so, he was arrested, 610 00:29:47,871 --> 00:29:51,454 and he's got 3 years of a sentence for the sexual assault 611 00:29:51,455 --> 00:29:53,454 and the possession of the illegal firearms 612 00:29:53,455 --> 00:29:56,255 that had absolutely nothing to do with the double homicide 613 00:29:56,256 --> 00:29:57,524 that we were investigating. 614 00:29:57,525 --> 00:30:00,616 We had to gather the evidence that we required 615 00:30:00,617 --> 00:30:02,829 to lay a charge of double homicide 616 00:30:02,830 --> 00:30:04,587 before his 3 years were up. 617 00:30:04,588 --> 00:30:07,246 Tell me who did it. Tell the truth. 618 00:30:11,005 --> 00:30:12,438 Look, man... 619 00:30:14,008 --> 00:30:16,142 I don't blame you for trying. 620 00:30:16,143 --> 00:30:18,078 But I ain't doing it. 621 00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:21,614 Now, good luck on catching the guy. 622 00:30:21,615 --> 00:30:24,484 And good luck on making him talk. 623 00:30:24,485 --> 00:30:28,087 'Cause he's gonna take everything he did 624 00:30:28,088 --> 00:30:29,822 and lock it up, 625 00:30:29,823 --> 00:30:33,792 put it in a compartment right here... 626 00:30:35,896 --> 00:30:37,596 and never let it out. 627 00:30:41,568 --> 00:30:43,770 Ray's now number one on our list. 628 00:30:43,771 --> 00:30:46,939 He's our guy. But we needed more evidence. 629 00:30:48,909 --> 00:30:52,978 I would go to Larry's probably 2, 3 times a month. 630 00:30:52,979 --> 00:30:54,981 He'd sit outside, have a cigarette. 631 00:30:54,982 --> 00:30:56,306 I'd sit outside and talk with him. 632 00:30:56,307 --> 00:30:59,163 Sometimes, he wouldn't say much. Sometimes, he'd give me hell. 633 00:30:59,164 --> 00:31:01,287 I'd take it. I'd listen to him. 634 00:31:01,288 --> 00:31:04,257 He was frustrated by the loss. 635 00:31:04,258 --> 00:31:05,859 But I kept reminding Larry that: 636 00:31:05,860 --> 00:31:07,650 "We're gonna have one shot at this. 637 00:31:07,651 --> 00:31:10,334 And so, we need to make sure that we have our ducks in a row 638 00:31:10,335 --> 00:31:11,871 so that your son 639 00:31:11,872 --> 00:31:14,601 and your ex-wife are treated fairly at the end of the day. 640 00:31:14,602 --> 00:31:15,826 And we're not there yet, Larry". 641 00:31:15,827 --> 00:31:18,538 I don't understand. You know he did it. 642 00:31:18,539 --> 00:31:20,406 We don't have any proof. 643 00:31:20,407 --> 00:31:24,210 No forensic evidence, no DNA, no confession. 644 00:31:24,211 --> 00:31:26,212 The truth is not enough. 645 00:31:26,213 --> 00:31:27,747 Goddammit! 646 00:31:30,632 --> 00:31:32,032 I saw him, you know. 647 00:31:32,974 --> 00:31:34,197 Who? 648 00:31:34,198 --> 00:31:35,832 Larry Jr. 649 00:31:37,591 --> 00:31:40,659 Well, I didn't see him. I... I felt him. 650 00:31:44,832 --> 00:31:47,165 Larry was really, really down in the dumps. 651 00:31:47,166 --> 00:31:48,223 And he went in the woods, 652 00:31:48,224 --> 00:31:50,315 brought his rifle with him, a shotgun with him, 653 00:31:50,316 --> 00:31:51,839 and he did some soul searching. 654 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:52,963 And he sat down. 655 00:31:52,964 --> 00:31:54,487 He said: "That's it". 656 00:31:54,488 --> 00:31:57,991 "I'm fed up of life. Larry's never coming back. 657 00:31:57,992 --> 00:32:00,202 My life is miserable. I think of him every day. 658 00:32:00,203 --> 00:32:02,048 I can't look at his picture". 659 00:32:02,049 --> 00:32:05,251 The shotgun was loaded. He had it down by his feet. 660 00:32:05,252 --> 00:32:08,321 And he was ready to do his thing. 661 00:32:08,322 --> 00:32:11,056 And he said that's when he got the vision. 662 00:32:11,057 --> 00:32:14,059 That's when Junior talked to him. 663 00:32:14,060 --> 00:32:15,728 And Junior said, 664 00:32:15,729 --> 00:32:17,597 Rare said: 665 00:32:17,598 --> 00:32:20,399 "Dad, don't do this. 666 00:32:22,403 --> 00:32:24,403 Don't do this". 667 00:32:24,404 --> 00:32:26,805 And he didn't move forward. 668 00:32:26,806 --> 00:32:29,876 "Because I'm dead doesn't give you the right 669 00:32:29,877 --> 00:32:31,678 to bring yourself to me. 670 00:32:31,679 --> 00:32:33,680 You need to live your life". 671 00:32:33,681 --> 00:32:36,348 And he put the gun down. 672 00:32:41,087 --> 00:32:44,929 Since then, I've been trying to work on my anger, 673 00:32:44,930 --> 00:32:49,589 you know, to stay positive, stay focused, but it's hard. 674 00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:50,713 It's real hard. 675 00:32:50,714 --> 00:32:52,670 I know you're angry and I know it hurts, 676 00:32:52,671 --> 00:32:54,407 but he is going away for 3 years. 677 00:32:54,408 --> 00:32:55,601 Three years. 678 00:32:55,602 --> 00:32:57,993 That gives us time to keep digging, 679 00:32:57,994 --> 00:32:59,700 find more evidence. 680 00:32:59,701 --> 00:33:03,460 A witness, something. And we will find it. 681 00:33:03,461 --> 00:33:06,095 He is going away for this. 682 00:33:07,847 --> 00:33:09,448 You have my word. 683 00:33:09,449 --> 00:33:11,723 And I said: "Larry, I'm on your side. 684 00:33:11,724 --> 00:33:13,982 You need to be patient. You need to trust me. 685 00:33:13,983 --> 00:33:16,040 And you need to allow us to do our job. 686 00:33:16,041 --> 00:33:18,432 And sometimes, it takes more time than what we want. 687 00:33:18,433 --> 00:33:20,099 It's just the nature of the beast". 688 00:33:20,727 --> 00:33:23,062 - Well, 3 years comes up. - _ 689 00:33:23,063 --> 00:33:24,920 We did not have any evidence 690 00:33:24,921 --> 00:33:27,946 to hold Ray or charge him for a double homicide. 691 00:33:27,947 --> 00:33:31,583 Ray White walked out of prison a free man. 692 00:33:37,077 --> 00:33:39,078 Ah! 693 00:33:39,079 --> 00:33:41,748 It's so good to be out of jail. 694 00:33:41,749 --> 00:33:43,149 We didn't give up, though! 695 00:33:43,150 --> 00:33:45,150 The day that Ray walked out of jail, 696 00:33:45,151 --> 00:33:47,020 we had eyes and ears on him. 697 00:33:47,021 --> 00:33:49,221 White went back to BC, 698 00:33:49,222 --> 00:33:51,590 but we were there waiting for him. 699 00:33:56,124 --> 00:33:57,448 _ 700 00:33:57,449 --> 00:34:00,566 I was once described by one of my supervisors: 701 00:34:00,567 --> 00:34:02,401 "Gerry is like a pit bull. 702 00:34:02,402 --> 00:34:04,704 When he bites, he doesn't let go". 703 00:34:04,705 --> 00:34:06,699 So, when I was told 704 00:34:06,700 --> 00:34:09,042 that Ray White was in British Columbia, 705 00:34:09,043 --> 00:34:12,544 well, I went into pit bull mode and I went after him. 706 00:34:20,721 --> 00:34:23,389 We set up an undercover operation 707 00:34:23,390 --> 00:34:24,820 and we had an undercover operator 708 00:34:24,821 --> 00:34:26,578 working as a drug dealer, 709 00:34:26,579 --> 00:34:27,912 and Ray bought into that. 710 00:34:29,997 --> 00:34:31,697 I think it's all there. 711 00:34:32,830 --> 00:34:34,387 You're trying to tell me 712 00:34:34,388 --> 00:34:37,276 you counted through half a million dollars? 713 00:34:37,277 --> 00:34:39,377 Well, ballpark. 714 00:34:41,141 --> 00:34:44,077 Shit! It's easy to make money out here. 715 00:34:44,078 --> 00:34:45,744 It's like the Wild West. 716 00:34:47,223 --> 00:34:49,248 - I should have never left. - Whoa, whoa! 717 00:34:49,249 --> 00:34:52,484 What the hell are you doing? No, you're still on the clock. 718 00:34:56,690 --> 00:34:58,791 You're paranoid, you know that? 719 00:34:58,792 --> 00:35:01,160 Take a hit. 720 00:35:01,161 --> 00:35:03,095 Maybe relax a little. 721 00:35:04,131 --> 00:35:05,832 Seriously. 722 00:35:05,833 --> 00:35:08,568 I used to do a bit of coke back in the day. 723 00:35:08,569 --> 00:35:11,004 Now, I was lucky I had the boss I did. 724 00:35:11,005 --> 00:35:14,292 Took care of me before I let things get out of hand. 725 00:35:14,293 --> 00:35:16,817 That shit makes you go crazy. 726 00:35:16,818 --> 00:35:18,118 Mmm. 727 00:35:19,381 --> 00:35:21,939 Yeah, tell me about it. 728 00:35:21,940 --> 00:35:25,366 Coke made me do some shit back East I'm not proud of. 729 00:35:25,367 --> 00:35:27,033 What kind of shit? 730 00:35:35,595 --> 00:35:37,196 I got high. 731 00:35:37,197 --> 00:35:39,164 I got crazy. 732 00:35:40,801 --> 00:35:43,002 A couple of people got what they deserved. 733 00:35:43,003 --> 00:35:44,863 Jesus, Ray! 734 00:35:44,864 --> 00:35:46,282 Listen, don't worry about it, man. 735 00:35:46,283 --> 00:35:47,573 It was years ago. 736 00:35:47,574 --> 00:35:50,275 They never got me, and they never will. 737 00:35:50,276 --> 00:35:51,878 I made sure of that. 738 00:35:51,879 --> 00:35:53,445 No witnesses. 739 00:35:55,482 --> 00:35:57,817 They don't even know where I am. 740 00:35:57,818 --> 00:35:59,384 What happened? 741 00:36:03,290 --> 00:36:06,426 You already know everything you need to know. 742 00:36:06,427 --> 00:36:08,560 The rest of it stays with me. 743 00:36:09,963 --> 00:36:12,798 I got it locked in a compartment... 744 00:36:14,033 --> 00:36:15,267 right here. 745 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,517 Good luck on catching the guy. 746 00:36:18,518 --> 00:36:20,543 He's gonna take everything he did 747 00:36:20,544 --> 00:36:21,900 and lock it up, 748 00:36:21,901 --> 00:36:23,392 put it in a compartment... 749 00:36:23,393 --> 00:36:25,026 right here. 750 00:36:25,859 --> 00:36:27,081 We got him! 751 00:36:27,082 --> 00:36:28,380 He said himself: 752 00:36:28,381 --> 00:36:30,315 "Those two people got what they deserve, 753 00:36:30,316 --> 00:36:33,167 and the reason I did it is because I had my coke problem. 754 00:36:33,168 --> 00:36:35,105 And as far as I'm concerned, it's in a compartment, 755 00:36:35,106 --> 00:36:36,989 and it ain't ever coming out". 756 00:36:36,990 --> 00:36:39,057 So, when we get back to New Brunswick, 757 00:36:39,058 --> 00:36:40,459 we're high-fiving each other. 758 00:36:40,460 --> 00:36:41,550 We're now on a high. 759 00:36:41,551 --> 00:36:43,650 We thought: "We finally got the evidence that we need 760 00:36:43,651 --> 00:36:45,175 to get this before the courts". 761 00:36:45,176 --> 00:36:47,333 So we sit down with the crown prosecutor. 762 00:36:47,334 --> 00:36:49,157 The crown tells me, specifically: 763 00:36:49,158 --> 00:36:51,025 "Gerry, you gotta understand. 764 00:36:51,538 --> 00:36:54,540 We're at a balance of probability of 49% 765 00:36:54,541 --> 00:36:56,409 on this double homicide. 766 00:36:56,410 --> 00:36:59,879 If you can get me to 51%, I'll approve the charge". 767 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:01,902 And I looked at that crown prosecutor, 768 00:37:01,903 --> 00:37:04,308 sure as I'm looking at you today, and I'm saying: 769 00:37:04,309 --> 00:37:07,153 "What kind of language is that? 770 00:37:07,154 --> 00:37:08,354 Explain to me..." 771 00:37:08,355 --> 00:37:09,622 I said: "Never mind. 772 00:37:09,623 --> 00:37:14,026 "Explain to Larry, explain to the son's father, 773 00:37:14,027 --> 00:37:17,050 what you mean when you talk about a balance of probabilities 774 00:37:17,051 --> 00:37:19,240 at 51% versus 49%, 775 00:37:19,241 --> 00:37:20,865 and we're at 49%. 776 00:37:20,866 --> 00:37:22,833 Explain that one to me". 777 00:37:25,372 --> 00:37:28,641 He strangled my son. He killed my son. 778 00:37:28,642 --> 00:37:29,983 You know he did it. 779 00:37:29,984 --> 00:37:31,841 He knows he did it. They know he did it. 780 00:37:31,842 --> 00:37:34,400 They do. But we only get one shot at this. 781 00:37:34,401 --> 00:37:37,168 And if we try to prosecute, he gets away with it. 782 00:37:39,586 --> 00:37:41,052 He already did. 783 00:37:45,058 --> 00:37:47,795 Talk about frustration! Talk about being upset! 784 00:37:47,796 --> 00:37:48,986 Talk about a dark day. 785 00:37:48,987 --> 00:37:51,013 I didn't have a good day when I went home. 786 00:37:51,014 --> 00:37:52,080 It was not a good day. 787 00:37:52,866 --> 00:37:55,901 Yes, I was disappointed. Yes, I was frustrated. 788 00:37:57,271 --> 00:37:58,870 I had to suck it up. 789 00:38:02,676 --> 00:38:06,144 To lay a charge of double homicide, 790 00:38:06,145 --> 00:38:09,615 we had to get the DNA on the pantyhose 791 00:38:09,616 --> 00:38:12,218 to match Ray White's DNA. 792 00:38:12,219 --> 00:38:17,223 Unless technology allows to separate those two DNA samples, 793 00:38:17,224 --> 00:38:19,758 not much more I can do. 794 00:38:21,228 --> 00:38:25,031 2009, I had a member come onto unit, Greg Lockson. 795 00:38:25,032 --> 00:38:26,966 This member was a sharp cookie. 796 00:38:26,967 --> 00:38:28,400 Greg took the file, 797 00:38:28,401 --> 00:38:30,481 checked all those things out again 798 00:38:30,482 --> 00:38:32,972 and resubmitted the exhibit. 799 00:38:32,973 --> 00:38:36,976 Except now, we're dealing, in 2009, 800 00:38:36,977 --> 00:38:38,877 with a new technology. 801 00:38:39,916 --> 00:38:43,474 And this technology was able to separate the male DNA 802 00:38:43,475 --> 00:38:45,651 completely away from the female DNA 803 00:38:45,652 --> 00:38:48,040 that we knew was Mary Lou Barnes and put that aside. 804 00:38:48,041 --> 00:38:50,041 "And let's work on this component". 805 00:38:54,647 --> 00:38:55,770 Yep? 806 00:38:55,771 --> 00:38:57,811 When I got the call from the lab... 807 00:38:59,733 --> 00:39:02,001 He said: "Gerry, are you sitting down? 808 00:39:02,002 --> 00:39:06,505 We got him. You got him". 809 00:39:07,807 --> 00:39:09,741 And I said: "Ray?" 810 00:39:09,742 --> 00:39:12,612 He said: "Yeah, you got him. We got him. 811 00:39:12,613 --> 00:39:14,347 I just got the test back. 812 00:39:14,348 --> 00:39:16,248 We're taking him down". 813 00:39:21,178 --> 00:39:22,377 It was like... 814 00:39:23,499 --> 00:39:26,858 "Wow! There is a God! 815 00:39:26,859 --> 00:39:28,992 There is a God!" 816 00:39:34,367 --> 00:39:37,503 Gerry, what are you doing? 817 00:39:37,504 --> 00:39:39,104 We got him. 818 00:39:39,105 --> 00:39:41,562 And Larry was stunned. 819 00:39:41,563 --> 00:39:44,677 He said: "Oh, I don't get it, Gerry. What changed?" 820 00:39:44,678 --> 00:39:46,912 I said: "Technology changed, Larry". 821 00:39:46,913 --> 00:39:49,115 And I said: "We got the bastard". 822 00:39:49,116 --> 00:39:50,850 I said: "We got him. 823 00:39:50,851 --> 00:39:52,464 We're going to court". 824 00:39:52,465 --> 00:39:54,170 We got the son of a bitch. 825 00:39:54,171 --> 00:39:55,171 We got him! 826 00:39:57,256 --> 00:39:58,858 We got him! 827 00:40:06,015 --> 00:40:07,295 Thank you. 828 00:40:12,606 --> 00:40:14,073 Yes! 829 00:40:14,074 --> 00:40:17,077 A moment of pure joy 830 00:40:17,078 --> 00:40:19,168 after years of sadness. 831 00:40:19,169 --> 00:40:22,158 Larry Mills Sr., his family and friends 832 00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:23,749 were in court for the sentencing 833 00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:26,667 of 65-year-old Raymond Joseph White. 834 00:40:26,668 --> 00:40:29,554 The judge sentenced White to life in prison 835 00:40:29,555 --> 00:40:31,757 with no chance of parole for 15 years. 836 00:40:31,758 --> 00:40:34,026 You never get over it. 837 00:40:34,027 --> 00:40:36,583 You know? I have to live with this for the rest of my life. 838 00:40:36,584 --> 00:40:40,699 I've beat myself up time and time and time again. 839 00:40:40,700 --> 00:40:44,036 Mills Sr. credits the RCMP for solving the murders. 840 00:40:44,037 --> 00:40:45,666 Staff Sergeant Gerry Belliveau 841 00:40:45,667 --> 00:40:48,107 worked on the case for 13 years. 842 00:40:48,108 --> 00:40:51,073 Regardless if the "why" can never be answered, 843 00:40:51,074 --> 00:40:52,297 justice was served. 844 00:40:52,298 --> 00:40:55,545 The right person will pay for the crimes 845 00:40:55,546 --> 00:40:56,649 that that person committed. 846 00:40:56,650 --> 00:41:00,585 Mills Sr. says a weight has been lifted off his shoulders. 847 00:41:00,586 --> 00:41:02,788 I'm just glad it's over. 848 00:41:02,789 --> 00:41:07,101 Finally, we can let Larry and Mary rest in peace. 849 00:41:07,102 --> 00:41:09,010 The two victims were killed in a house 850 00:41:09,011 --> 00:41:10,768 that used to sit on this spot. 851 00:41:10,769 --> 00:41:12,260 After their deaths, 852 00:41:12,261 --> 00:41:15,801 the boy's father planted two cedar trees in their memory. 853 00:41:15,802 --> 00:41:18,871 And it's here where Larry Mills Sr. came today 854 00:41:18,872 --> 00:41:22,074 to gather himself and to lay flowers: 855 00:41:22,075 --> 00:41:24,410 red roses for his former wife, 856 00:41:24,411 --> 00:41:26,612 white roses for his son. 857 00:41:26,613 --> 00:41:29,415 And I had my own 10-minute chat 858 00:41:29,416 --> 00:41:31,049 with Mary Lou and Junior. 859 00:41:34,821 --> 00:41:36,155 I said... 860 00:41:36,156 --> 00:41:38,323 I said: "Mary Lou... 861 00:41:41,294 --> 00:41:43,829 you don't know me". 862 00:41:45,298 --> 00:41:48,033 I said: "My name's Gerry Belliveau. 863 00:41:48,034 --> 00:41:51,269 And I said: "I was there that day you passed away". 864 00:41:52,572 --> 00:41:54,707 And I said: "I worked for you. 865 00:41:54,708 --> 00:41:57,643 And I worked for your ex. And I worked for Junior. 866 00:41:57,644 --> 00:42:02,248 And I want you to know that we worked hard on your behalf, 867 00:42:02,249 --> 00:42:04,116 and you can rest in peace". 868 00:42:04,117 --> 00:42:07,453 And I said: "Larry Jr., my name is Gerry Belliveau. 869 00:42:07,454 --> 00:42:09,121 And you can rest in peace. 870 00:42:09,122 --> 00:42:11,207 And your father is doing okay. 871 00:42:11,208 --> 00:42:13,125 He's gonna be all right. 872 00:42:13,126 --> 00:42:14,993 That's all I have to say". 873 00:42:16,327 --> 00:42:22,757 _ 874 00:42:23,375 --> 00:42:29,575 _ 875 00:42:30,277 --> 00:42:32,810 - Synced and corrected by Firefly - - www.addic7ed.com - 876 00:42:35,230 --> 00:42:40,060 _ 877 00:42:42,187 --> 00:42:48,657 _ 878 00:42:51,300 --> 00:42:57,380 _ 64063

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