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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:26,528 --> 00:00:30,532 FRANZ SUCHOMEL SS Unterscharfuhrer 2 00:00:31,825 --> 00:00:36,830 Ser holdent forude, modig og glad, 3 00:00:36,913 --> 00:00:41,626 på verden, 4 00:00:41,876 --> 00:00:46,172 de squads marcherer til arbejde. 5 00:00:47,465 --> 00:00:51,803 Alle, der betyder noget for os nu er Treblinka. 6 00:00:52,262 --> 00:00:56,099 Det er vores skæbne. 7 00:00:56,307 --> 00:01:00,645 Det er derfor, vi er blevet én med Treblinka 8 00:01:00,729 --> 00:01:04,733 på ingen tid overhovedet. 9 00:01:05,024 --> 00:01:09,070 Vi kender kun ordet af vores Commander. 10 00:01:09,571 --> 00:01:13,450 Vi kender kun lydighed og pligt. 11 00:01:13,658 --> 00:01:18,121 Vi ønsker at tjene, til at gå på servering 12 00:01:18,204 --> 00:01:21,916 indtil lidt held ender det hele. 13 00:01:22,167 --> 00:01:23,710 Hurra! 14 00:01:26,671 --> 00:01:29,048 Endnu en gang, men højere. 15 00:01:31,092 --> 00:01:34,220 Vi griner om det, men det er så trist. 16 00:01:34,471 --> 00:01:35,764 Ingen griner. 17 00:01:35,847 --> 00:01:38,141 Må ikke være øm på mig. 18 00:01:38,725 --> 00:01:43,021 Du ønsker Historie. Jeg giver dig historie. 19 00:01:43,229 --> 00:01:45,857 Franz skrev ordene. 20 00:01:46,149 --> 00:01:48,777 Melodien kom fra Buchenwald. 21 00:01:49,319 --> 00:01:53,406 Camp Buchenwald, hvor Franz var en vagt. 22 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,160 Nye jøder, der ankom om morgenen ... 23 00:01:57,368 --> 00:01:59,662 Ny ”arbejdstager jøder”? 24 00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:02,624 De blev undervist i sang, 25 00:02:02,707 --> 00:02:06,544 og ved aften alle af dem havde at synge den. 26 00:02:06,961 --> 00:02:09,339 - Syng den igen. - Okay. 27 00:02:09,422 --> 00:02:11,883 Det er meget vigtigt. Men højt! 28 00:02:14,969 --> 00:02:19,808 Ser holdent forude, modig og glad, 29 00:02:19,891 --> 00:02:24,604 på verden, 30 00:02:24,896 --> 00:02:29,108 de squads marcherer til arbejde. 31 00:02:29,651 --> 00:02:34,197 Alle, der betyder noget for os nu er Treblinka. 32 00:02:34,405 --> 00:02:38,368 Det er vores skæbne. 33 00:02:38,660 --> 00:02:42,914 Det er derfor, vi er blevet én med Treblinka 34 00:02:43,122 --> 00:02:47,043 på ingen tid overhovedet. 35 00:02:47,252 --> 00:02:51,631 Vi kender kun ordet af vores Commander. 36 00:02:52,257 --> 00:02:56,427 Vi kender kun lydighed og pligt. 37 00:02:56,678 --> 00:03:01,015 Vi ønsker at tjene, til at gå på servering 38 00:03:01,266 --> 00:03:04,894 indtil lidt held ender det hele. 39 00:03:04,978 --> 00:03:06,437 Hurra! 40 00:03:07,146 --> 00:03:09,107 Tilfreds? 41 00:03:09,357 --> 00:03:12,610 Det er enestående. Ingen jøder ved, at i dag! 42 00:04:32,649 --> 00:04:36,444 Hvordan var det muligt i Treblinka 43 00:04:36,694 --> 00:04:39,906 i spidsbelastningsdage 44 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,453 til ”proces” 18.000 mennesker? 45 00:04:45,995 --> 00:04:47,997 18.000 er for høj. 46 00:04:48,081 --> 00:04:52,502 - Men jeg har læst, at tallet i Afgørelser. - Jo da. 47 00:04:52,585 --> 00:04:56,255 Til ”proces” 18.000 mennesker. 48 00:04:57,256 --> 00:04:59,592 For at likvidere dem. 49 00:05:01,260 --> 00:05:05,139 Mr. Lanzmann, det er en overdrivelse. 50 00:05:05,223 --> 00:05:07,016 Tro mig. 51 00:05:07,100 --> 00:05:08,643 Hvor mange? 52 00:05:08,726 --> 00:05:11,562 12.000 t015,000. 53 00:05:11,813 --> 00:05:17,443 Men vi var nødt til at tilbringe den halve nat på det. 54 00:05:17,527 --> 00:05:21,948 I januar togene begyndte ankommer til 06:00 55 00:05:23,741 --> 00:05:25,952 - Altid på 6:00? - Ikke altid. 56 00:05:26,035 --> 00:05:27,996 Tit. - Ja. 57 00:05:28,079 --> 00:05:31,541 - De tidsplaner var uregelmæssig. - Ja. 58 00:05:31,749 --> 00:05:37,130 Nogle gange kom en på 6:00, derefter en anden ved middagstid, 59 00:05:37,213 --> 00:05:40,842 måske en anden sent om aftenen. 60 00:05:41,175 --> 00:05:42,552 Du ser? 61 00:05:42,635 --> 00:05:45,805 Så et tog ankom. 62 00:05:46,472 --> 00:05:50,476 Jeg vil gerne have dig til at beskrive i detaljer 63 00:05:51,060 --> 00:05:53,354 hele processen. 64 00:05:53,438 --> 00:05:55,982 I løbet af højsæsonen. 65 00:05:57,483 --> 00:06:03,489 Togene forlod Malkinia station, 66 00:06:03,573 --> 00:06:06,117 til Treblinka station. 67 00:06:18,379 --> 00:06:21,758 Hvor mange miles fra Malkinia til Treblinka? 68 00:06:23,009 --> 00:06:25,136 Om seks miles. 69 00:06:52,371 --> 00:06:54,832 Treblinka var en landsby. 70 00:06:58,836 --> 00:07:01,047 En lille landsby. 71 00:07:02,757 --> 00:07:04,258 Som en station, 72 00:07:04,342 --> 00:07:09,722 det fået større betydning på grund af de transporter af jøder. 73 00:07:16,354 --> 00:07:21,526 Der var mindst 30 til 50 biler. 74 00:07:27,198 --> 00:07:33,246 De var inddelt i sektioner på 10 eller 15, 75 00:07:33,329 --> 00:07:37,917 skubbet ind i Treblinka Camp, 76 00:07:38,751 --> 00:07:43,172 og bragt til rampen. 77 00:07:45,174 --> 00:07:49,929 De andre biler ventede, lastet med mennesker, 78 00:07:51,055 --> 00:07:53,558 i Treblinka station. 79 00:07:57,854 --> 00:08:02,525 Vinduerne blev lukket med pigtråd, 80 00:08:03,359 --> 00:08:05,862 så ingen kunne komme ud. 81 00:08:06,487 --> 00:08:10,783 På tagene var de ”Hellhounds,” 82 00:08:11,284 --> 00:08:13,953 ukrainerne eller letterne. 83 00:08:14,871 --> 00:08:17,456 Letterne var værst. 84 00:08:23,671 --> 00:08:27,592 På rampen, for hver bil, 85 00:08:28,009 --> 00:08:33,472 der stod to jøder fra Blue Squad 86 00:08:34,557 --> 00:08:37,018 at fremskynde tingene op. 87 00:08:38,644 --> 00:08:43,024 De sagde, ”Kom ud, komme ud. Skynd, skynd!” 88 00:08:45,067 --> 00:08:51,032 Der var også ukrainere og tyskere. 89 00:09:03,294 --> 00:09:05,004 Hvor mange tyskere? 90 00:09:05,087 --> 00:09:06,631 3til 5. 91 00:09:07,089 --> 00:09:10,218 - Ikke mere? - Ikke mere. Jeg kan forsikre dig. 92 00:09:10,301 --> 00:09:12,428 Hvor mange ukrainere? 93 00:09:12,511 --> 00:09:13,804 Den her. 94 00:09:15,348 --> 00:09:18,809 10 ukrainere, 5 tyskere. 95 00:09:20,269 --> 00:09:25,066 2 ... 20 personer fra den blå Squad. 96 00:09:25,149 --> 00:09:29,237 Mænd fra den blå Squad var her og her. 97 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,114 De sendte folk inde. 98 00:09:33,783 --> 00:09:36,118 The Red Squad var her. 99 00:09:37,787 --> 00:09:39,538 Så den røde Squad var her. 100 00:09:39,622 --> 00:09:44,252 Hvad var den røde Squad job? 101 00:09:45,127 --> 00:09:49,966 Tøjet... 102 00:09:50,174 --> 00:09:53,678 til at bære det tøj taget fra ved mændene 103 00:09:54,470 --> 00:09:57,098 og af kvinder 104 00:09:58,808 --> 00:10:04,855 heroppe med det samme. 105 00:10:06,691 --> 00:10:09,902 Hvor lang tid gik mellem tømningen på rampen 106 00:10:09,986 --> 00:10:12,947 og afklædning, 107 00:10:13,030 --> 00:10:14,865 hvor mange minutter? 108 00:10:19,704 --> 00:10:22,915 For kvinder, 109 00:10:22,999 --> 00:10:25,918 Lad os sige en time i alt. 110 00:10:26,627 --> 00:10:29,130 En time, en time og en halv. 111 00:10:29,839 --> 00:10:33,801 En hel tog tog 2 timer. - Ja. 112 00:10:33,884 --> 00:10:41,058 I 2 timer, det hele var overstået. 113 00:10:41,892 --> 00:10:46,105 Mellem tidspunktet for ankomst 114 00:10:46,188 --> 00:10:47,773 og død. 115 00:10:47,857 --> 00:10:52,278 Det var alle over i 2 timer? - 2 timer, 2 1/2 timer, 3 timer. 116 00:10:52,361 --> 00:10:53,904 En hel tog? 117 00:10:53,988 --> 00:10:56,073 Ja, en hel tog. 118 00:10:57,325 --> 00:11:00,995 Og for kun én sektion, for 10 biler, hvor længe? 119 00:11:02,038 --> 00:11:03,331 Jeg kan ikke beregne, at 120 00:11:03,414 --> 00:11:05,833 fordi sektionerne kom den ene efter den anden, 121 00:11:05,916 --> 00:11:11,756 og folk Fl ooded i konstant, 122 00:11:11,839 --> 00:11:13,424 forstå? 123 00:11:13,883 --> 00:11:17,762 Normalt mændene venter der sad der, eller der, 124 00:11:17,845 --> 00:11:22,600 blev sendt lige op via ”tragt”. 125 00:11:22,683 --> 00:11:27,313 Kvinderne blev sendt sidst. 126 00:11:28,022 --> 00:11:29,648 I slutningen. 127 00:11:29,732 --> 00:11:34,820 De måtte gå op der også, og ofte ventede her. 128 00:11:37,740 --> 00:11:40,659 5 ... ad gangen. 129 00:11:40,743 --> 00:11:44,955 50 personer. 60 kvinder med børn. 130 00:11:46,707 --> 00:11:50,836 De måtte vente her , indtil der var plads her. 131 00:11:51,087 --> 00:11:53,005 - Naked. - Naked. 132 00:11:53,089 --> 00:11:56,133 I sommer og vinter. 133 00:11:57,218 --> 00:12:00,971 Vinter i Treblinka kan være meget koldt. 134 00:12:01,055 --> 00:12:06,310 Nå, om vinteren i december, alligevel efter jul. 135 00:12:07,019 --> 00:12:10,022 Men selv før jul var det kolde som helvede. 136 00:12:10,481 --> 00:12:15,152 Mellem 15 og minus 4. 137 00:12:16,362 --> 00:12:22,535 Jeg kender: Først var det kolde som helvede for os, også. 138 00:12:23,035 --> 00:12:26,038 Vi havde ikke egnede uniformer. 139 00:12:27,206 --> 00:12:29,083 Det var koldt for os også. 140 00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:32,169 Men det var koldere for ... 141 00:12:32,253 --> 00:12:34,755 For de fattige mennesker. 142 00:12:35,005 --> 00:12:36,173 I ”tragt”. 143 00:12:36,257 --> 00:12:39,677 I ”tragt”, det var meget, meget kolde. 144 00:12:52,273 --> 00:12:54,150 Kan du... 145 00:12:56,485 --> 00:13:01,699 beskrive denne ”tragt” præcist? 146 00:13:01,782 --> 00:13:05,828 Hvad var det ligesom? Hvor bred? 147 00:13:06,412 --> 00:13:09,039 Hvordan var det for de mennesker i denne ”tragt”? 148 00:13:09,123 --> 00:13:13,419 Det var omkring 13 fod bred. 149 00:13:14,712 --> 00:13:18,007 Så bredt som dette rum. 150 00:13:19,049 --> 00:13:24,680 På hver side var vægge denne høje eller denne høje. 151 00:13:25,681 --> 00:13:29,393 - Walls? - Nej, pigtråd. 152 00:13:29,477 --> 00:13:33,564 Vævet ind i pigtråd 153 00:13:35,483 --> 00:13:38,861 var grene af fyrretræer. 154 00:13:39,528 --> 00:13:42,031 Du forstår? 155 00:13:42,114 --> 00:13:44,200 Det var kendt som ”Camou fl alder.” 156 00:13:44,283 --> 00:13:48,162 Der var en ”Camou fl alder Squad” af 20 jøder. 157 00:13:48,245 --> 00:13:51,999 De bragte i nye filialer hver dag. 158 00:13:52,082 --> 00:13:55,211 - Fra skoven? - Det er rigtigt. 159 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,964 Så alt blev screenet. 160 00:13:59,048 --> 00:14:02,885 Folk kunne ikke se noget til venstre eller højre. 161 00:14:04,261 --> 00:14:05,804 Ikke noget. 162 00:14:05,888 --> 00:14:08,974 Du kunne ikke se igennem det. 163 00:14:09,058 --> 00:14:10,351 Umulig. 164 00:14:11,477 --> 00:14:15,898 Her og her også. 165 00:14:15,981 --> 00:14:17,483 Også her. 166 00:14:21,820 --> 00:14:24,156 Umuligt at se igennem. 167 00:14:27,117 --> 00:14:31,288 CAMP DAG 168 00:14:48,264 --> 00:14:49,765 Treblinka, 169 00:14:50,182 --> 00:14:55,020 hvor så mange mennesker blev udryddet, 170 00:14:55,479 --> 00:14:58,524 var ikke stor, ikke? 171 00:15:00,484 --> 00:15:02,278 Det var ikke stor. 172 00:15:02,820 --> 00:15:06,699 1600 fod på det bredeste sted. 173 00:15:09,994 --> 00:15:14,415 Det var ikke et rektangel, mere som en rombeformede. 174 00:15:16,709 --> 00:15:20,838 Du må indse, at her jorden var flade, 175 00:15:22,298 --> 00:15:26,343 og her begyndte det at stige. 176 00:15:31,390 --> 00:15:37,396 Og ved toppen af skråningen var gaskammeret. 177 00:15:41,567 --> 00:15:43,902 Du måtte klatre op til det. 178 00:15:45,029 --> 00:15:48,574 Den ”tragt” blev kaldt ”Road to Heaven,” right? 179 00:15:49,074 --> 00:15:53,370 Jøderne kaldte det ”Ascension”. 180 00:15:54,288 --> 00:15:57,958 Også ”The Last Road.” 181 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,882 Jeg hørte kun de to navne for det. 182 00:16:05,174 --> 00:16:07,217 Jeg har brug for at se det. 183 00:16:07,593 --> 00:16:10,262 De mennesker gå ind i ”tragten”. 184 00:16:10,346 --> 00:16:11,972 Så hvad sker der? 185 00:16:13,724 --> 00:16:16,060 De er helt nøgen? - Helt nøgen. 186 00:16:16,143 --> 00:16:17,561 Her... 187 00:16:18,979 --> 00:16:22,733 stod to ukrainske vagter. 188 00:16:23,150 --> 00:16:24,318 Ja. 189 00:16:24,568 --> 00:16:27,154 Primært for mændene. 190 00:16:28,656 --> 00:16:31,492 Hvis mændene ikke ville gå i, 191 00:16:32,993 --> 00:16:38,457 de blev slået med piske. 192 00:16:38,540 --> 00:16:42,127 Også her. Selv her. - Åh ja. 193 00:16:42,211 --> 00:16:45,589 Mændene blev ”kørt” sammen. Ikke de kvinder. 194 00:16:45,798 --> 00:16:47,424 Ikke de kvinder. 195 00:16:47,508 --> 00:16:49,468 Nej, de var ikke slået. 196 00:16:49,551 --> 00:16:52,262 Hvorfor sådan menneskeheden? 197 00:16:52,346 --> 00:16:54,765 Jeg kunne ikke se det. 198 00:16:55,307 --> 00:16:57,476 Jeg kunne ikke se det. 199 00:16:57,935 --> 00:16:59,520 Måske de slået også. 200 00:16:59,603 --> 00:17:01,563 Hvorfor ikke? 201 00:17:03,774 --> 00:17:06,235 De var ved at dø alligevel. 202 00:17:06,777 --> 00:17:08,779 Hvorfor ikke? 203 00:17:12,408 --> 00:17:14,618 Ved indgangen til gaskamrene, 204 00:17:16,161 --> 00:17:17,955 utvivlsomt. 205 00:17:20,124 --> 00:17:23,127 ABRAHAM PUMP - ISRAEL - 206 00:37:00,636 --> 00:37:03,973 I ”tragt”, kvinderne måtte vente. 207 00:37:05,975 --> 00:37:09,437 De hørte om motorer til gaskammeret. 208 00:37:12,481 --> 00:37:16,861 Måske de også hørt folk skrige og bedende. 209 00:37:27,705 --> 00:37:31,667 Som de ventede, ”død-panik” ovn / vhetrned dem. 210 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:42,053 ”Død-panik” gør folk give slip. 211 00:37:43,012 --> 00:37:47,391 De tømme sig selv, forfra eller bagfra. 212 00:37:49,226 --> 00:37:54,190 Så ofte, hvor kvinderne stod, 213 00:37:54,273 --> 00:38:00,154 der var 5 eller 6 rækker af ekskrementer. 214 00:38:01,989 --> 00:38:03,032 De stod? 215 00:38:03,115 --> 00:38:07,745 De kunne sidde på hug eller gøre det stående. 216 00:38:07,828 --> 00:38:09,747 Jeg kunne ikke se dem gøre det. 217 00:38:09,830 --> 00:38:13,042 Jeg så kun afføring. 218 00:38:13,125 --> 00:38:14,961 Kun kvinder? 219 00:38:15,044 --> 00:38:17,380 Ikke mændene, er det kun kvinder. 220 00:38:18,047 --> 00:38:20,800 Mændene blev jaget gennem ”tragt”. 221 00:38:20,883 --> 00:38:24,428 Kvinderne måtte vente 222 00:38:27,056 --> 00:38:29,141 indtil et gaskammer var tom. 223 00:38:29,225 --> 00:38:34,355 - Og mændene? - Nej, de blev pisket i først. 224 00:38:35,648 --> 00:38:36,649 Du forstår? 225 00:38:36,732 --> 00:38:38,484 Mændene var altid først? 226 00:38:38,567 --> 00:38:41,070 Ja, de altid gik først. 227 00:38:41,779 --> 00:38:43,572 De behøvede ikke at vente. 228 00:38:43,656 --> 00:38:47,451 De var ikke tid til at vente, nej. 229 00:38:51,914 --> 00:38:53,666 Og denne ”død-panik” ... 230 00:38:53,749 --> 00:38:56,127 Når denne ”død-panik” sætter ind, 231 00:38:58,087 --> 00:39:00,172 man lader gå. 232 00:39:00,256 --> 00:39:06,512 Det er velkendt, når en persons skrækslagne og ved, at han er ved at dø. 233 00:39:06,595 --> 00:39:09,181 Det kan ske i sengen. 234 00:39:09,265 --> 00:39:12,309 Min mor knælede ved sin seng. 235 00:39:13,769 --> 00:39:17,565 - Din mor? - Ja. Så var der en stor bunke. 236 00:39:20,109 --> 00:39:21,360 Det er en kendsgerning. 237 00:39:21,444 --> 00:39:23,529 Det har været lægeligt ... 238 00:39:24,113 --> 00:39:26,282 bevist. 239 00:39:27,324 --> 00:39:29,035 Da du ønskede at vide: 240 00:39:29,118 --> 00:39:33,205 Så snart de blev losset, 241 00:39:33,664 --> 00:39:38,210 hvis de var blevet læsset i Warszawa, eller andre steder, 242 00:39:38,294 --> 00:39:40,463 de havde allerede blevet slået. 243 00:39:41,797 --> 00:39:44,925 Slået hårdt, værre end i Treblinka, 244 00:39:45,593 --> 00:39:47,428 Jeg kan forsikre dig. 245 00:39:50,222 --> 00:39:52,933 Så i løbet af togrejsen, 246 00:39:53,017 --> 00:39:55,144 stående i biler, 247 00:39:55,227 --> 00:39:57,188 ingen toiletter, 248 00:39:57,563 --> 00:40:00,858 ingenting, næppe vand. 249 00:40:00,941 --> 00:40:02,568 tørv 250 00:40:02,651 --> 00:40:06,530 Så dørene åbnes , og det begyndte igen, 251 00:40:07,531 --> 00:40:10,159 "Brake, bremse!" 252 00:40:11,827 --> 00:40:15,498 "Hurtigere, hurtigere!" 253 00:40:15,581 --> 00:40:20,544 Jeg kan ikke udtale det: Jeg har gebis. 254 00:40:20,628 --> 00:40:21,670 Det er polsk. 255 00:40:21,754 --> 00:40:24,507 "Bremze" eller "hurtigere". 256 00:40:24,590 --> 00:40:26,300 Hvad betyder ”bremze” betyder? 257 00:40:26,383 --> 00:40:29,762 Det er en ukrainsk ord. Det betyder ”hurtigere”. 258 00:40:30,596 --> 00:40:35,935 Igen jagten ... en regn af whiplashes. 259 00:40:36,018 --> 00:40:38,395 SS mand Kuttner pisk var denne lange. 260 00:40:38,854 --> 00:40:41,732 Kvinder til venstre, mænd til højre. 261 00:40:42,858 --> 00:40:45,736 Og altid flere slag. 262 00:40:46,195 --> 00:40:47,822 Ingen pusterum? 263 00:40:47,905 --> 00:40:49,448 Ingen. 264 00:40:49,532 --> 00:40:54,286 Gå derind, strimmel. Skynd, skynd! 265 00:40:54,370 --> 00:40:58,082 - Altid kører. - Altid kører. 266 00:40:59,583 --> 00:41:00,876 Løb og skrige. 267 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,463 Det er, hvordan de blev færdig fra. 268 00:41:04,547 --> 00:41:07,633 - Det var den teknik. - Ja, teknikken. 269 00:41:10,052 --> 00:41:14,849 Du skal huske: det skulle gå hurtigt. 270 00:41:16,142 --> 00:41:20,563 Og den blå Squad havde også opgaven 271 00:41:21,897 --> 00:41:25,484 af førende de syge og de gamle ... 272 00:41:26,152 --> 00:41:28,445 til ”Infirmary, ” 273 00:41:30,072 --> 00:41:34,910 for ikke at forsinke fl ow af mennesker til gaskamrene. 274 00:41:34,994 --> 00:41:39,039 Gamle mennesker ville have bremset den ned. 275 00:41:42,126 --> 00:41:45,504 Tildeling til ”infirmeriet” 276 00:41:46,130 --> 00:41:49,466 blev besluttet af tyskerne. 277 00:41:51,135 --> 00:41:54,430 Jøderne i den blå Squad 278 00:41:54,513 --> 00:41:59,018 kun gennemført beslutningen: 279 00:41:59,268 --> 00:42:02,730 førende folk der, 280 00:42:02,813 --> 00:42:07,401 eller bære dem på bårer. 281 00:42:10,029 --> 00:42:13,616 Gamle kvinder, syge børn, 282 00:42:13,699 --> 00:42:16,368 børn, hvis mor var syge, 283 00:42:17,453 --> 00:42:19,997 eller hvis mormor var meget gammel, 284 00:42:20,456 --> 00:42:23,792 blev sendt sammen med bedstemor 285 00:42:23,876 --> 00:42:27,713 fordi hun ikke vidste om den ”infirmeriet.” 286 00:42:28,631 --> 00:42:33,010 Det havde en hvid flag med et rødt kryds. 287 00:42:35,971 --> 00:42:38,224 En passage førte til den. 288 00:42:38,933 --> 00:42:42,269 Indtil de nåede enden, så de ingenting. 289 00:42:44,730 --> 00:42:47,650 Så ville de se de døde i graven. 290 00:42:51,820 --> 00:42:55,574 De blev tvunget til at strippe, 291 00:42:57,743 --> 00:43:00,746 to sit on a sandbank, 292 00:43:02,331 --> 00:43:05,417 og blev dræbt med et skud i nakken. 293 00:43:06,043 --> 00:43:09,421 De faldt ind i pit. 294 00:43:13,842 --> 00:43:17,596 Der var altid en brand i pit. 295 00:43:19,014 --> 00:43:24,019 Med affald, papir og benzin, 296 00:43:27,439 --> 00:43:30,359 folk brænder meget godt. 297 00:43:32,778 --> 00:43:36,365 RICHARD GLAZAR - SCHWEIZ - 298 00:43:40,661 --> 00:43:43,956 Den ”skadestue” var en smal websted 299 00:43:44,540 --> 00:43:48,210 meget tæt på rampen 300 00:43:50,254 --> 00:43:54,633 hvortil alderen blev ført. 301 00:43:55,134 --> 00:43:57,803 Jeg var nødt til at gøre dette også. 302 00:44:03,392 --> 00:44:08,397 Denne henrettelse hjemmeside blev ikke dækket, 303 00:44:09,064 --> 00:44:12,234 bare et åbent sted med et tag, 304 00:44:12,318 --> 00:44:15,487 men screenet ved et hegn, 305 00:44:15,571 --> 00:44:18,115 så ingen kunne se i. 306 00:44:23,078 --> 00:44:28,375 Den måde var en smal passage, 307 00:44:31,337 --> 00:44:36,967 meget kort, men noget der ligner den ”tragt”. 308 00:44:38,177 --> 00:44:40,804 En slags lille labyrint. 309 00:44:43,182 --> 00:44:46,352 I midten af ​​det, der var en grav. 310 00:44:48,645 --> 00:44:53,108 Og til venstre som man kom ind, 311 00:44:53,192 --> 00:44:55,736 der var en lille bod, 312 00:44:55,819 --> 00:45:00,866 med en slags træplanke i det, 313 00:45:00,949 --> 00:45:03,410 gerne et springbræt. 314 00:45:04,328 --> 00:45:09,416 Hvis folk var for svage til at stå på det, 315 00:45:09,792 --> 00:45:14,630 de ville have til at sidde på det, 316 00:45:15,798 --> 00:45:17,424 og så, 317 00:45:17,841 --> 00:45:25,015 som man siger gik i Treblinka jargon, 318 00:45:25,891 --> 00:45:34,525 SS ville du leje 319 00:45:35,609 --> 00:45:40,364 ”Helbrede hver enkelt med en enkelt pille”: 320 00:45:42,366 --> 00:45:44,660 et skud i nakken. 321 00:45:49,373 --> 00:45:52,918 I spidsbelastningsperioder, 322 00:45:53,502 --> 00:45:55,129 der skete dagligt. 323 00:45:55,212 --> 00:46:00,884 I disse dage, pit ... 324 00:46:01,510 --> 00:46:03,178 og det var mindst 325 00:46:05,097 --> 00:46:08,851 10 til 12 fod dyb ... 326 00:46:08,934 --> 00:46:11,228 var fuld af lig. 327 00:46:20,529 --> 00:46:24,700 Der var også tilfælde 328 00:46:24,908 --> 00:46:31,206 af børn, der af en eller anden grund kom alene 329 00:46:31,290 --> 00:46:35,711 or got separated from their parents. 330 00:46:36,128 --> 00:46:39,673 These children were led to the “infirmary” 331 00:46:40,215 --> 00:46:42,426 and shot there. 332 00:46:51,393 --> 00:46:55,481 The “infirmary” was also for us, 333 00:46:55,564 --> 00:46:58,025 the Treblinka slaves, 334 00:46:59,067 --> 00:47:01,236 the last stop. 335 00:47:02,362 --> 00:47:04,615 Not the gas chamber. 336 00:47:05,991 --> 00:47:10,412 We always ended up in the “infirmary.” 337 00:47:19,129 --> 00:47:23,550 AUSCHWITZ TODAY THE SORTING STATION 338 00:48:31,743 --> 00:48:34,538 RUDOLF VRBA Survivor of Auschwitz 339 00:49:37,768 --> 00:49:40,854 THE OLD RAMP 340 00:50:15,639 --> 00:50:20,227 THE NEW RAMP BUILT IN EARLY 1944 341 00:52:10,754 --> 00:52:12,923 Before each gassing operation, 342 00:52:13,006 --> 00:52:17,260 the SS took stern precautions. 343 00:52:20,931 --> 00:52:25,101 The crematorium was surrounded by SS men. 344 00:52:27,771 --> 00:52:32,651 Many SS men patrolled the court 345 00:52:33,819 --> 00:52:38,532 with dogs and machine-guns. 346 00:52:43,745 --> 00:52:49,042 To the right were the steps 347 00:52:50,627 --> 00:52:54,673 that led underground to the “undressing room.” 348 00:53:11,940 --> 00:53:16,278 In Birkenau, there were 4 crematoria, 349 00:53:20,866 --> 00:53:25,579 Crematorium II, III and IV, V. 350 00:53:29,833 --> 00:53:34,254 Crematorium II was similar to III. 351 00:53:42,053 --> 00:53:44,097 In II and III, 352 00:53:44,306 --> 00:53:49,060 the “undressing room” and the gas chambers were underground. 353 00:53:53,356 --> 00:53:56,026 A large “undressing room” 354 00:53:57,861 --> 00:54:01,281 of about 3000 square feet 355 00:54:23,261 --> 00:54:25,639 and a large gas chamber... 356 00:54:29,351 --> 00:54:31,603 where one could... 357 00:54:33,688 --> 00:54:40,028 gas up to 3000 people at a time. 358 00:54:51,873 --> 00:55:02,384 Crematorium I V and V were of a different type 359 00:55:04,552 --> 00:55:08,473 in that they weren't located underground. 360 00:55:09,557 --> 00:55:12,352 Everything was at ground level. 361 00:55:14,104 --> 00:55:17,691 In IV and V, there were 3 gas chambers 362 00:55:17,774 --> 00:55:19,818 with a total capacity 363 00:55:19,901 --> 00:55:24,614 of at most 1800 to 2000 people at a time. 364 00:55:26,783 --> 00:55:31,162 AUSCHWITZ MUSEUM MODEL OF CREMATORIUMS II AND III 365 00:55:31,246 --> 00:55:35,625 Elevators hoisted bodies to the ovens 366 00:55:43,591 --> 00:55:47,971 Crematorium II and III had 15 ovens each. 367 00:55:49,472 --> 00:55:53,018 Crematorium IV and V had 8 ovens each. 368 00:56:06,031 --> 00:56:09,159 As people reached the crematorium, 369 00:56:09,451 --> 00:56:12,078 they saw everything... 370 00:56:12,537 --> 00:56:15,373 this horribly violent scene. 371 00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:21,421 The whole area was ringed with SS men. 372 00:56:22,005 --> 00:56:24,382 Dogs barked. 373 00:56:24,466 --> 00:56:26,843 Machine-guns. 374 00:56:29,846 --> 00:56:35,310 They all, mainly the Polish Jews, had misgivings. 375 00:56:37,062 --> 00:56:42,734 They knew something was seriously amiss. 376 00:56:46,654 --> 00:56:53,620 But none of them had the faintest of notions 377 00:56:53,703 --> 00:56:57,707 that in 3 or 4 hours they'd be reduced to ashes. 378 00:57:04,756 --> 00:57:07,759 When they reached the “undressing room,” 379 00:57:08,343 --> 00:57:10,428 they saw 380 00:57:11,096 --> 00:57:17,811 that it looked like an International Information Center! 381 00:57:35,411 --> 00:57:39,791 On the walls were... 382 00:57:42,377 --> 00:57:43,920 hooks, 383 00:57:47,507 --> 00:57:50,343 and each hook had a number. 384 00:57:52,929 --> 00:57:56,224 Beneath the hooks were... 385 00:57:58,184 --> 00:58:00,562 wooden benches. 386 00:58:00,979 --> 00:58:06,693 So people could undress “more comfortably,” it was said. 387 00:58:09,696 --> 00:58:13,491 And on the numerous pillars 388 00:58:14,951 --> 00:58:19,080 that held up this underground “undressing room,” 389 00:58:19,998 --> 00:58:22,584 there were signs with slogans 390 00:58:23,626 --> 00:58:26,421 in several languages: 391 00:58:29,549 --> 00:58:31,926 “Clean is good!” 392 00:58:34,429 --> 00:58:36,931 “Lice can kill!” 393 00:58:38,516 --> 00:58:40,768 “Wash yourself!” 394 00:58:42,770 --> 00:58:45,565 “To the disinfection area.” 395 00:58:50,695 --> 00:58:53,615 All those signs 396 00:58:54,365 --> 00:58:57,118 were only there 397 00:58:58,536 --> 00:59:03,541 to lure people into the gas chambers already undressed. 398 00:59:25,188 --> 00:59:28,524 And to the left, 399 00:59:29,234 --> 00:59:33,988 at a fight-angle, was the gas chamber 400 00:59:38,826 --> 00:59:44,165 with its massive door. 401 01:00:03,726 --> 01:00:08,106 CREMATORIUM III: THE UNDRESSING ROOM 402 01:00:41,431 --> 01:00:45,852 THE GAS CHAMBER 403 01:00:59,157 --> 01:01:06,414 In Crematoria II and III, Zyklon gas crystals were poured in 404 01:01:07,206 --> 01:01:10,376 by a so-called “SS disinfection squad,” 405 01:01:11,210 --> 01:01:13,588 through the ceiling, 406 01:01:22,263 --> 01:01:28,227 and in Crematoria IV and V through side openings. 407 01:01:33,775 --> 01:01:37,779 With 5 or 6 canisters of gas, 408 01:01:39,489 --> 01:01:42,450 they could kill around 2000 people. 409 01:01:51,209 --> 01:01:54,420 This so-called “disinfection squad” 410 01:01:56,005 --> 01:02:00,301 arrived in a truck marked with a red cross 411 01:02:02,470 --> 01:02:05,807 and escorted people along 412 01:02:06,641 --> 01:02:13,272 to make them believe they were being led to take a bath. 413 01:02:16,692 --> 01:02:21,030 But the red cross was only a mark 414 01:02:21,489 --> 01:02:26,035 to hide the canisters of Zyklon gas and the hammers to open them. 415 01:02:32,542 --> 01:02:38,923 The gas took about 10 to 15 minutes to kill. 416 01:02:47,974 --> 01:02:50,518 The most horrible thing was, 417 01:02:52,395 --> 01:02:55,356 once the doors of the gas chambers were opened... 418 01:02:56,023 --> 01:03:01,195 the unbearable sight. 419 01:03:06,159 --> 01:03:10,538 People were packed together like basalt, 420 01:03:12,290 --> 01:03:14,542 like blocks of stone. 421 01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:22,300 How they tumbled out of the gas chamber! 422 01:03:26,554 --> 01:03:28,973 I saw that several times. 423 01:03:31,350 --> 01:03:35,563 That was the toughest thing to take. 424 01:03:37,148 --> 01:03:40,818 You could never get used to that. 425 01:03:43,446 --> 01:03:45,740 It was impossible. 426 01:03:46,157 --> 01:03:49,577 CREMATORIUM IV 427 01:03:52,580 --> 01:03:54,165 Impossible. 428 01:03:55,750 --> 01:03:56,751 Yes. 429 01:03:56,834 --> 01:04:02,840 You see, once the gas was poured in, it worked like this: 430 01:04:02,924 --> 01:04:06,511 it rose from the ground upwards. 431 01:04:07,094 --> 01:04:11,474 And in the terrible struggle that followed, 432 01:04:11,974 --> 01:04:15,603 because it was a struggle. 433 01:04:18,439 --> 01:04:22,652 The lights were switched off in the gas chambers. 434 01:04:23,444 --> 01:04:26,614 It was dark, no one could see. 435 01:04:26,822 --> 01:04:32,495 So the strongest people tried to climb higher. 436 01:04:32,578 --> 01:04:35,331 Because they probably realized 437 01:04:35,957 --> 01:04:38,876 that the higher they got, 438 01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:41,921 the more air there was. 439 01:04:42,296 --> 01:04:44,924 They could breathe better. 440 01:04:46,092 --> 01:04:49,053 That caused the struggle. 441 01:04:49,136 --> 01:04:53,307 Secondly, most people tried to push their way to the door. 442 01:04:53,933 --> 01:04:55,643 It was psychological: 443 01:04:55,726 --> 01:04:57,728 They knew where the door was, 444 01:04:57,812 --> 01:05:00,523 so maybe they could force their way. 445 01:05:00,606 --> 01:05:02,483 It was instinctive, 446 01:05:02,817 --> 01:05:08,656 a death struggle. 447 01:05:08,739 --> 01:05:11,826 Which is why children... 448 01:05:11,909 --> 01:05:14,579 and weaker people, and the aged, 449 01:05:14,662 --> 01:05:16,497 always wound up at the bottom. 450 01:05:16,581 --> 01:05:19,667 The strongest were on top. 451 01:05:20,793 --> 01:05:26,924 Because in the death struggle... 452 01:05:28,593 --> 01:05:33,889 a father didn't realize his son lay... 453 01:05:35,349 --> 01:05:36,851 beneath him. 454 01:05:37,602 --> 01:05:40,354 And when the doors were opened? 455 01:05:40,438 --> 01:05:42,481 They fell out. 456 01:05:42,565 --> 01:05:46,193 People fell out like blocks of stone, 457 01:05:46,277 --> 01:05:50,156 like rocks falling out of a truck. 458 01:05:50,865 --> 01:05:54,702 But near the Zyklon gas, there was a void. 459 01:05:54,785 --> 01:05:59,081 There was no one where the gas crystals went in. 460 01:05:59,165 --> 01:06:01,626 An empty space. 461 01:06:01,709 --> 01:06:07,089 Probably the victims realized that 462 01:06:08,549 --> 01:06:12,762 the gas worked strongest there. 463 01:06:17,975 --> 01:06:19,644 And the people were...? 464 01:06:19,727 --> 01:06:23,564 The people were battered. 465 01:06:24,732 --> 01:06:32,239 They struggled and fought in the darkness. 466 01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:37,411 They were covered in excrement, 467 01:06:39,580 --> 01:06:41,082 in blood, 468 01:06:43,042 --> 01:06:45,419 from ears and noses. 469 01:06:49,423 --> 01:06:52,843 One also sometimes saw 470 01:06:52,927 --> 01:06:56,555 that the people lying on the ground, 471 01:06:56,639 --> 01:07:01,644 because of the pressure of the others, 472 01:07:01,727 --> 01:07:07,233 were unrecognizable. 473 01:07:07,316 --> 01:07:11,779 Children had their skulls crushed. 474 01:07:14,073 --> 01:07:15,825 - Yes. - What? 475 01:07:17,034 --> 01:07:18,536 It was awful. 476 01:07:18,619 --> 01:07:23,666 Vomit. 477 01:07:25,626 --> 01:07:29,797 Blood from the ears and noses. 478 01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:34,260 Probably even menstrual fluid... sure of it. 479 01:07:34,802 --> 01:07:38,055 There was everything in that struggle for life, 480 01:07:38,139 --> 01:07:40,141 that death struggle. 481 01:07:41,100 --> 01:07:45,187 It was terrible to see. That was the toughest part. 482 01:07:46,897 --> 01:07:50,151 FILIP MULLER, Czech Jew 483 01:07:50,234 --> 01:07:56,782 survivor of the 5 liquidations of the Auschwitz “special detail” 484 01:08:25,853 --> 01:08:29,190 It was pointless 485 01:08:29,857 --> 01:08:33,194 to tell the truth to anyone 486 01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:39,200 who crossed the threshold of the crematorium. 487 01:08:43,329 --> 01:08:46,707 You couldn't save anyone there. 488 01:08:48,793 --> 01:08:52,588 It was impossible to save people. 489 01:09:03,015 --> 01:09:05,142 One day, in 1943, 490 01:09:05,226 --> 01:09:09,605 when I was already in Crematorium V, 491 01:09:11,982 --> 01:09:15,069 a train from Bialystok arrived. 492 01:09:18,239 --> 01:09:21,534 A prisoner on the “special detail” 493 01:09:21,909 --> 01:09:26,747 saw a woman in the “undressing room,” 494 01:09:28,582 --> 01:09:31,418 who was the wife of a friend of his. 495 01:09:35,589 --> 01:09:38,592 He came right out and told her, 496 01:09:39,593 --> 01:09:41,762 “You are going to be exterminated. 497 01:09:43,097 --> 01:09:46,100 In 3 hours, you'll be ashes.” 498 01:09:54,608 --> 01:09:58,946 The woman believed him because she knew him. 499 01:10:05,786 --> 01:10:08,706 She ran all over 500 01:10:08,789 --> 01:10:11,625 and warned the other women. 501 01:10:13,586 --> 01:10:16,088 “We're going to be killed. 502 01:10:16,755 --> 01:10:19,133 We're going to be gassed.” 503 01:10:22,136 --> 01:10:27,182 Mothers carrying their children on their shoulders 504 01:10:27,266 --> 01:10:29,476 didn't want to hear that. 505 01:10:30,394 --> 01:10:33,147 They decided the woman was crazy. 506 01:10:35,566 --> 01:10:38,027 They chased her away. 507 01:10:42,156 --> 01:10:44,825 So she went to the men. 508 01:10:46,493 --> 01:10:48,829 To no avail. 509 01:10:50,331 --> 01:10:52,374 Not that they didn't believe her. 510 01:10:52,458 --> 01:10:55,920 They'd heard rumors in the Bialystok ghetto, 511 01:10:56,003 --> 01:10:57,796 or in Grodno, and elsewhere. 512 01:10:58,756 --> 01:11:01,842 But who wanted to hear that! 513 01:11:08,349 --> 01:11:12,186 When she saw that no one would listen, 514 01:11:12,853 --> 01:11:16,357 she scratched her whole face. 515 01:11:17,608 --> 01:11:20,277 Out of despair. In shock. 516 01:11:20,527 --> 01:11:23,697 And she started to scream. 517 01:11:28,035 --> 01:11:29,870 So what happened? 518 01:11:30,412 --> 01:11:34,291 Everyone was gassed. The woman was held back. 519 01:11:36,835 --> 01:11:41,215 We had to line up in front of the oven. 520 01:11:43,133 --> 01:11:47,137 First they tortured her horribly, 521 01:11:47,221 --> 01:11:49,556 because she wouldn't betray him. 522 01:11:52,351 --> 01:11:56,563 In the end, she pointed to him. 523 01:11:59,733 --> 01:12:05,072 He was taken out of the line and thrown alive into the oven. 524 01:12:06,407 --> 01:12:10,744 We were told, “Whoever says anything will end like that!” 525 01:12:16,583 --> 01:12:21,088 We, in the “special detail,” kept trying to figure out 526 01:12:21,672 --> 01:12:24,883 if there was a way 527 01:12:25,300 --> 01:12:29,471 we could tell people 528 01:12:30,973 --> 01:12:33,851 to inform them. 529 01:12:35,102 --> 01:12:39,023 But our experience, 530 01:12:39,106 --> 01:12:43,610 in several instances where we were able to tell people, 531 01:12:44,445 --> 01:12:47,281 showed that it was of no use. 532 01:12:47,364 --> 01:12:52,036 That it made their last moments even harder to bear. 533 01:12:52,119 --> 01:12:56,623 At most, we thought it might help... 534 01:12:56,707 --> 01:13:00,586 Jews from Poland, 535 01:13:00,669 --> 01:13:05,132 or Jews from Theresienstadt (the Czech family camp), 536 01:13:05,215 --> 01:13:09,136 who'd already spent 6 months in Birkenau, 537 01:13:09,636 --> 01:13:13,390 we thought it might have been of use in such cases 538 01:13:13,474 --> 01:13:15,476 to tell people. 539 01:13:15,893 --> 01:13:19,897 But imagine what it was like in other cases: 540 01:13:20,481 --> 01:13:25,069 Jews from Greece, from Hungary, from Corfu 541 01:13:25,152 --> 01:13:29,239 who'd been traveling for 10 or 12 days, 542 01:13:29,323 --> 01:13:30,908 starving, 543 01:13:31,825 --> 01:13:36,121 without water for days, dying of thirst, 544 01:13:36,205 --> 01:13:39,083 they were half-crazed when they arrived. 545 01:13:39,416 --> 01:13:41,752 They were dealt with differently. 546 01:13:41,835 --> 01:13:44,379 They were only told, 547 01:13:44,463 --> 01:13:50,010 “Get undressed, you'll soon get a mug of tea.” 548 01:13:51,678 --> 01:13:54,807 These people were in such a state 549 01:13:54,890 --> 01:14:00,354 because they'd been traveling so long, 550 01:14:00,437 --> 01:14:04,566 that their only thought 551 01:14:05,109 --> 01:14:08,612 was to quench their thirst. 552 01:14:08,695 --> 01:14:11,990 And the SS executioners knew that very well. 553 01:14:12,074 --> 01:14:16,328 It was all preprogrammed, 554 01:14:19,039 --> 01:14:23,127 a calculated part of the extermination process 555 01:14:23,210 --> 01:14:26,088 that if people were so weak 556 01:14:26,171 --> 01:14:28,674 and weren't given something to drink, 557 01:14:28,757 --> 01:14:32,219 they'd rush into the gas chamber. 558 01:14:32,302 --> 01:14:35,597 But in fact, 559 01:14:35,681 --> 01:14:41,937 all these people were already being exterminated 560 01:14:42,020 --> 01:14:43,730 before reaching the gas chambers. 561 01:14:43,814 --> 01:14:46,066 Think of the children. 562 01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:49,653 They begged their mothers, screaming, 563 01:14:49,736 --> 01:14:52,698 “Mother, please, water, water!” 564 01:14:53,657 --> 01:14:57,744 The adults, too, who'd spent days without water, 565 01:14:58,370 --> 01:15:01,123 had the same obsession. 566 01:15:01,206 --> 01:15:04,877 Informing those people was quite pointless. 567 01:15:14,261 --> 01:15:18,348 CORFU 568 01:17:47,497 --> 01:17:50,375 - Grab it from there. - Yes, grab it from there. 569 01:17:50,459 --> 01:17:52,044 - Put it right there. - Okay. 570 01:17:52,127 --> 01:17:53,879 - Right there. - Okay, yes. 571 01:17:53,962 --> 01:17:56,089 Okay, be careful. Wait. 572 01:17:56,506 --> 01:17:59,217 You'll come and pick it up later? - Yes. 573 01:17:59,301 --> 01:18:01,303 - Put it down. - In a second. 574 01:18:01,386 --> 01:18:03,805 Hold on a second. 575 01:18:03,889 --> 01:18:05,682 Just hold on a second. 576 01:18:06,266 --> 01:18:08,602 Maybe if you removed this? 577 01:18:08,685 --> 01:18:11,521 Got it? That's how you'll load it. 578 01:18:11,605 --> 01:18:13,857 Come and pick it up next week. 579 01:18:13,940 --> 01:18:16,443 Understood? Now move the cart away from here. 580 01:18:16,526 --> 01:18:18,236 Move the cart. 581 01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:20,947 Yes, let's make some space. 582 01:18:21,281 --> 01:18:23,200 So you're an actor now. 583 01:18:26,286 --> 01:18:27,287 Let's finish this. 584 01:18:57,734 --> 01:19:01,780 MOSHE MORDO 585 01:19:22,217 --> 01:19:24,511 These are my nephews. 586 01:19:24,594 --> 01:19:27,639 They burned them in Birkenau. 587 01:19:30,851 --> 01:19:33,770 Two of my brother's kids. 588 01:19:33,854 --> 01:19:37,357 They took them to the crematorium with their mom. 589 01:19:37,983 --> 01:19:40,527 They were all burned in Birkenau. 590 01:19:51,705 --> 01:19:53,665 My brother. 591 01:19:55,375 --> 01:19:58,295 He was sick, 592 01:19:58,378 --> 01:20:03,508 and they put him in the oven, in the crematorium, and burned him. 593 01:20:05,051 --> 01:20:07,471 That was at Birkenau. 594 01:20:11,933 --> 01:20:15,520 The oldest boy was 17, 595 01:20:16,438 --> 01:20:18,857 the second was 15. 596 01:20:20,275 --> 01:20:23,695 Two more kids “kaput” with their mom. 597 01:20:26,698 --> 01:20:29,409 Yes, 4 children I lost. 598 01:20:39,044 --> 01:20:40,921 Your father too? 599 01:20:42,631 --> 01:20:44,591 My dad, him too. 600 01:20:45,133 --> 01:20:46,801 How old was your father? 601 01:20:46,885 --> 01:20:53,016 Dad was 85 years old. 602 01:20:53,517 --> 01:20:56,478 85 years old and he died in Auschwitz. 603 01:20:56,561 --> 01:20:59,356 Auschwitz, that's right. 604 01:21:00,649 --> 01:21:04,778 85 and he died at Birkenau. 605 01:21:05,987 --> 01:21:07,614 My father. 606 01:21:07,989 --> 01:21:10,367 Your father made the whole trip. 607 01:21:19,251 --> 01:21:21,211 The whole family died. 608 01:21:21,294 --> 01:21:24,631 First the gas chamber, then the crematorium. 609 01:23:36,596 --> 01:23:40,600 On Friday morning, June 9, 1944, 610 01:23:40,684 --> 01:23:46,231 members of the Corfu Jewish community came, very frightened, 611 01:23:46,314 --> 01:23:49,025 and reported to the Germans. 612 01:23:49,109 --> 01:23:54,197 This square was full of Gestapo men and police, 613 01:23:54,781 --> 01:23:56,366 and we went forward. 614 01:23:56,449 --> 01:24:00,787 There were even traitors, the Recanati brothers, Athens Jews. 615 01:24:00,870 --> 01:24:07,127 After the war they were sentenced to life imprisonment. 616 01:24:07,210 --> 01:24:10,296 But they're already free. 617 01:24:14,718 --> 01:24:18,388 We were ordered to go forward. 618 01:24:18,471 --> 01:24:21,891 - By the street? - Yes, by this street. 619 01:24:21,975 --> 01:24:26,896 - How many of you were there? - Exactly 1,650. 620 01:24:31,151 --> 01:24:34,070 - Quite a crowd? - A lot of people. 621 01:24:34,154 --> 01:24:37,115 Christians stopped there. 622 01:24:37,741 --> 01:24:39,492 Christians, that's right. And they saw. 623 01:24:39,576 --> 01:24:41,536 Where were the Christians? 624 01:24:43,246 --> 01:24:45,582 - At the street corner? - Yes. 625 01:24:46,124 --> 01:24:47,625 And on the balconies. 626 01:24:48,877 --> 01:24:51,379 After we gathered here, 627 01:24:51,463 --> 01:24:55,425 Gestapo men with machine-guns came up behind us. 628 01:24:56,676 --> 01:24:58,303 What time was it? 629 01:24:59,012 --> 01:25:01,389 - It was 6 A.M. - In the morning. 630 01:25:01,473 --> 01:25:03,808 - A fine day? - Yes, the day was fine. 631 01:25:05,810 --> 01:25:07,353 6 o'clock in the morning. 632 01:25:08,021 --> 01:25:10,231 1,600. That's a lot of people in the street. 633 01:25:10,315 --> 01:25:12,150 People gathered. 634 01:25:12,233 --> 01:25:16,946 The Christians heard the Jews were being rounded up. 635 01:25:17,030 --> 01:25:20,366 - Why'd they come? - To see the show. 636 01:25:25,371 --> 01:25:28,708 Let's hope it never happens again. 637 01:25:29,834 --> 01:25:32,420 - Were you scared? - Very scared. 638 01:25:32,504 --> 01:25:35,548 There were young people, 639 01:25:35,632 --> 01:25:38,551 sick people, little children, 640 01:25:38,635 --> 01:25:41,805 the old, the crazy, and so on. 641 01:25:46,893 --> 01:25:50,688 When we saw they'd even brought the insane, 642 01:25:50,772 --> 01:25:54,400 even the sick from the hospital, 643 01:25:54,484 --> 01:25:57,821 we were frightened 644 01:25:57,904 --> 01:26:00,990 for the survival of the whole community. 645 01:26:03,785 --> 01:26:05,328 What were you told? 646 01:26:05,411 --> 01:26:08,498 That we were to appear here at the fort 647 01:26:08,581 --> 01:26:11,417 to be taken to work in Germany. 648 01:26:12,794 --> 01:26:14,754 - Poland. - Poland, that's right. 649 01:26:16,631 --> 01:26:22,679 The Germans had put up a proclamation on all the walls in Corfu. 650 01:26:23,471 --> 01:26:26,808 It said all Jews had to report. 651 01:26:26,891 --> 01:26:29,018 And once we were all rounded up, 652 01:26:29,102 --> 01:26:33,940 life would be better without us in Greece. 653 01:26:34,023 --> 01:26:39,112 It was signed by the police chiefs, by officials and by the mayors. 654 01:26:39,195 --> 01:26:42,073 - That it's better without Jews? - Yes. 655 01:26:42,615 --> 01:26:45,285 We found out after we came back. 656 01:26:47,620 --> 01:26:50,498 Was Corfu anti-Semitic? 657 01:26:54,919 --> 01:26:57,964 Corfu's always had anti-Semitism? 658 01:26:58,214 --> 01:26:59,757 It existed, sure, 659 01:26:59,841 --> 01:27:04,929 but it wasn't so strong in the years just before that. 660 01:27:05,013 --> 01:27:06,264 Why not? 661 01:27:06,347 --> 01:27:11,144 Because they didn't think like that against the Jews. 662 01:27:11,394 --> 01:27:15,106 ARMANDO AARON President of the Corfu Jewish community 663 01:27:15,315 --> 01:27:19,402 - And now? - Now we're free. 664 01:27:21,112 --> 01:27:24,991 - How do you get on with the Christians now? - Very well. 665 01:27:34,500 --> 01:27:37,337 - What'd he say? - He asked me what you said. 666 01:27:37,420 --> 01:27:41,257 He agrees our relations with the Christians are very good. 667 01:27:55,396 --> 01:27:59,817 - Did all the Jews live in the ghetto? - Most of them. 668 01:28:05,573 --> 01:28:07,909 What happened after the Jews left? 669 01:28:07,992 --> 01:28:12,246 They took all our possessions, all the gold we had with us. 670 01:28:12,330 --> 01:28:16,334 They took the keys to our houses and stole everything. 671 01:28:20,088 --> 01:28:22,757 To whom was all this given? Who stole it all? 672 01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:27,095 By law, it was to go to the Greek government. 673 01:28:27,178 --> 01:28:32,100 But the state got only a small part of it. 674 01:28:32,183 --> 01:28:35,019 The rest was stolen, usurped. 675 01:28:35,228 --> 01:28:38,690 - By whom? - By everybody, and by the Germans. 676 01:28:43,486 --> 01:28:46,656 Of the 1,700 people deported... 677 01:28:46,739 --> 01:28:50,076 Around 122 were saved. 678 01:28:50,743 --> 01:28:53,579 95% of them died. 679 01:28:56,541 --> 01:28:59,043 Was it a long trip from Corfu to Auschwitz? 680 01:28:59,127 --> 01:29:01,671 We were arrested here on June 9, 681 01:29:01,754 --> 01:29:05,508 and finally arrived June 29. 682 01:29:05,591 --> 01:29:09,429 Most were burned on the night of the 29th. 683 01:29:09,929 --> 01:29:12,265 It lasted from June 9 to 29? 684 01:29:16,394 --> 01:29:19,188 We stayed here for around 5 days. 685 01:29:21,983 --> 01:29:23,651 Here in the fort. 686 01:29:26,654 --> 01:29:31,159 No one dared escape and leave his father, mother, brothers. 687 01:29:31,242 --> 01:29:36,914 Our solidarity was on religious and family grounds. 688 01:29:39,542 --> 01:29:42,462 The first group left on June 11. 689 01:29:44,047 --> 01:29:48,468 I went with the 2nd convoy, on June 15. 690 01:29:56,350 --> 01:29:58,436 What kind of a boat were you on? 691 01:29:58,978 --> 01:30:05,359 A zattera. That's a boat made of barrels and planks. 692 01:30:05,443 --> 01:30:09,155 It was towed by a small boat with Germans in it. 693 01:30:11,115 --> 01:30:14,619 On our boat there were 1, 2 or 3 guards, 694 01:30:14,702 --> 01:30:18,122 not many Germans, but we were terrified. 695 01:30:18,206 --> 01:30:21,959 You can understand, terror is the best of guards. 696 01:30:44,565 --> 01:30:47,860 - What was the journey like? - Terrible! Terrible! 697 01:30:50,071 --> 01:30:52,698 No water, nothing to eat. 698 01:30:52,782 --> 01:30:58,538 90 cars that were good for only 20 animals, 699 01:30:59,038 --> 01:31:00,790 all of us standing up. 700 01:31:03,543 --> 01:31:05,711 A lot of us died. 701 01:31:06,671 --> 01:31:10,174 Later they put the dead in another car in quicklime. 702 01:31:10,258 --> 01:31:15,471 They burned them in Auschwitz, too. 703 01:31:24,564 --> 01:31:29,485 Next figure: WALTER STIER Ex-member of the Nazi party 704 01:31:30,361 --> 01:31:34,574 Former head, Reich Railways, Bureau 33 (“Railroads of the Reich”) 705 01:31:35,950 --> 01:31:38,327 You never saw a train? 706 01:31:38,703 --> 01:31:40,496 No, never. 707 01:31:41,706 --> 01:31:44,709 We had so much work, I never left my desk. 708 01:31:45,710 --> 01:31:48,045 We worked day and night. 709 01:31:54,427 --> 01:31:56,012 “GE. D. O.B. ” 710 01:31:56,679 --> 01:32:00,683 “GE DOBmeans 'Head office of Eastbound Traffic. ” 711 01:32:05,271 --> 01:32:09,775 In January 1940, I was assigned to GEDOB Krakow. 712 01:32:12,236 --> 01:32:16,699 In mid-1943, I was moved to Warsaw. 713 01:32:17,909 --> 01:32:23,497 I was made chief traffic planner. 714 01:32:23,748 --> 01:32:26,459 Chief of the traffic planning office. 715 01:32:28,628 --> 01:32:35,009 But your duties were the same before and after 1943? 716 01:32:35,843 --> 01:32:40,973 The only change: I was promoted to head of the department. 717 01:32:44,185 --> 01:32:50,441 What were your specific duties at GEDOB in Poland during the war? 718 01:32:51,484 --> 01:32:54,237 The work was barely different 719 01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:57,281 from the work in Germany: 720 01:32:59,659 --> 01:33:01,494 preparing timetables, 721 01:33:01,577 --> 01:33:07,667 coordinating the movement of special trains with regular trains. 722 01:33:09,460 --> 01:33:12,380 - There were several departments? - Yes. 723 01:33:13,339 --> 01:33:17,885 Department 33 was in charge of special trains 724 01:33:17,969 --> 01:33:20,638 and regular trains. 725 01:33:22,139 --> 01:33:25,017 The special trains were handled by Department 33. 726 01:33:25,935 --> 01:33:29,522 You were always in the Department of Special Trains? 727 01:33:29,605 --> 01:33:31,148 Yes. 728 01:33:32,108 --> 01:33:36,529 What's the difference between a special and a regular train ? 729 01:33:38,239 --> 01:33:40,658 A regular train may be used 730 01:33:40,741 --> 01:33:45,162 by anyone who purchases a ticket. 731 01:33:48,082 --> 01:33:50,876 Say from Krakow to Warsaw. 732 01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:53,546 Or from Krakow to Lemberg. 733 01:33:55,214 --> 01:34:00,803 A special train has to be ordered. 734 01:34:04,098 --> 01:34:07,977 The train is specially put together 735 01:34:08,060 --> 01:34:11,230 and people PaY--- 736 01:34:12,189 --> 01:34:14,358 group fares. 737 01:34:15,192 --> 01:34:17,653 Are there still special trains now? 738 01:34:17,737 --> 01:34:19,572 Of course. 739 01:34:19,989 --> 01:34:22,325 Just as there were then. 740 01:34:22,950 --> 01:34:26,829 For group vacations you can organize a special train? 741 01:34:26,912 --> 01:34:29,707 Yes, for instance, 742 01:34:29,790 --> 01:34:34,712 for immigrant workers returning home for the holidays, 743 01:34:35,463 --> 01:34:40,551 special trains are scheduled. 744 01:34:40,634 --> 01:34:44,805 Or else one couldn't handle the traffic. 745 01:34:47,016 --> 01:34:52,980 You said after the war you handled trains for visiting dignitaries. 746 01:34:53,064 --> 01:34:55,775 After the war, yes. 747 01:34:56,734 --> 01:35:00,613 If a king visits Germany by train, 748 01:35:00,696 --> 01:35:02,531 that's a special train? 749 01:35:02,615 --> 01:35:04,784 That's a special train. 750 01:35:05,326 --> 01:35:10,456 But the procedure isn't the same 751 01:35:10,539 --> 01:35:18,005 as for special trains for group tours, and so on. 752 01:35:18,089 --> 01:35:23,052 State visits are handled by the Foreign Service. 753 01:35:23,135 --> 01:35:24,804 Right. 754 01:35:26,389 --> 01:35:29,308 May I ask you another question? 755 01:35:30,309 --> 01:35:35,815 Why were there more special trains 756 01:35:35,898 --> 01:35:38,359 during the war, than before or after? 757 01:35:38,442 --> 01:35:41,654 I see what you're getting at. 758 01:35:41,737 --> 01:35:48,619 You're referring to the so-called “Resettlement trains.” 759 01:35:49,120 --> 01:35:53,666 - “Resettlement.” That's it. - That's what they were called. 760 01:35:53,749 --> 01:35:57,128 Those trains were ordered 761 01:35:59,088 --> 01:36:08,347 by the Ministry of Transport of the Reich. 762 01:36:09,390 --> 01:36:14,979 You needed an order from the Ministry of Transport of the Reich... 763 01:36:18,065 --> 01:36:20,443 - In Berlin? - Correct. 764 01:36:24,113 --> 01:36:27,491 As for the implementation of those orders, 765 01:36:27,575 --> 01:36:32,955 the Head Office of Eastbound Traffic in Berlin dealt with it. 766 01:36:33,038 --> 01:36:34,874 Yes, I understand. 767 01:36:34,957 --> 01:36:37,543 - Is that clear? - Perfectly. 768 01:36:37,877 --> 01:36:43,716 But mostly, at that time, who was being “resettled”? 769 01:36:44,175 --> 01:36:46,510 No! We didn't know that. 770 01:36:47,094 --> 01:36:50,431 Only when we were fleeing from Warsaw ourselves, 771 01:36:50,514 --> 01:36:54,101 did we learn that they could have been Jews 772 01:36:54,185 --> 01:36:57,688 or criminals, or similar people. 773 01:36:57,771 --> 01:36:59,315 Jews, criminals? 774 01:36:59,398 --> 01:37:01,442 Criminals. All kinds. 775 01:37:01,525 --> 01:37:03,903 Special trains for criminals? 776 01:37:03,986 --> 01:37:09,492 No, that was just an expression. 777 01:37:09,575 --> 01:37:11,785 You couldn't talk about that. 778 01:37:11,869 --> 01:37:15,331 Unless you were tired of life, 779 01:37:15,414 --> 01:37:18,375 it was best not to mention that. 780 01:37:18,584 --> 01:37:26,050 But you knew that the trains to Treblinka or Auschwitz were... 781 01:37:26,133 --> 01:37:28,552 Of course we knew. 782 01:37:28,969 --> 01:37:30,846 I was the last district: 783 01:37:30,930 --> 01:37:34,600 Without me, these trains couldn't reach their destination. 784 01:37:35,351 --> 01:37:37,561 For instance, a train that started in Essen 785 01:37:37,645 --> 01:37:42,233 had to go through the district of Wuppertal, 786 01:37:42,316 --> 01:37:47,112 Hannover, Magdeburg, Berlin, 787 01:37:48,239 --> 01:37:53,035 Frankfurt/Oder, Posen, Warsaw, etc. 788 01:37:53,118 --> 01:37:54,662 So I had to. 789 01:37:54,745 --> 01:37:59,625 Did you know that Treblinka meant extermination? 790 01:37:59,708 --> 01:38:01,126 Of course not! 791 01:38:01,210 --> 01:38:03,128 You didn't know? 792 01:38:03,212 --> 01:38:05,381 Good God, no! How could we know? 793 01:38:05,464 --> 01:38:08,092 I never went to Treblinka. 794 01:38:08,175 --> 01:38:14,974 I stayed in Krakow, in Warsaw, glued to my desk. 795 01:38:15,307 --> 01:38:16,809 You were a... 796 01:38:16,892 --> 01:38:19,979 I was strictly a bureaucrat! 797 01:38:20,062 --> 01:38:21,230 I see. 798 01:38:21,313 --> 01:38:23,190 But it's astonishing 799 01:38:23,274 --> 01:38:28,279 that people in the Department of Special Trains 800 01:38:28,362 --> 01:38:32,908 never knew about the “final solution. ” 801 01:38:32,992 --> 01:38:34,076 We were at war. 802 01:38:34,159 --> 01:38:37,830 Because there were others 803 01:38:37,913 --> 01:38:40,958 who worked for the rail roads who knew. 804 01:38:41,041 --> 01:38:43,836 Like the train conductors. 805 01:38:44,169 --> 01:38:46,255 Yes, they saw it. They did. 806 01:38:46,338 --> 01:38:50,676 But as to what happened, I know... 807 01:38:50,759 --> 01:38:54,346 What was Treblinka for you? Treblinka or Auschwitz? 808 01:38:54,430 --> 01:38:58,517 Yes, for us Treblinka, Belzec, and all that, 809 01:38:58,601 --> 01:39:01,312 were concentration camps. 810 01:39:01,395 --> 01:39:04,106 - A destination. - Yes, that's all. 811 01:39:04,189 --> 01:39:06,358 - But not death. - No. 812 01:39:06,442 --> 01:39:08,485 People were put up there. 813 01:39:08,569 --> 01:39:12,698 For instance, for a train coming from Essen 814 01:39:12,781 --> 01:39:19,622 or Cologne, or elsewhere, room had to be made for them there. 815 01:39:19,705 --> 01:39:24,251 With the war and the allies advancing everywhere, 816 01:39:24,335 --> 01:39:28,631 those people had to be concentrated in camps. 817 01:39:28,714 --> 01:39:32,092 When exactly did you find out? 818 01:39:32,176 --> 01:39:38,015 When the word got around, 819 01:39:38,098 --> 01:39:40,768 when it was whispered. 820 01:39:40,851 --> 01:39:44,271 It was never said outright. Good God, no! 821 01:39:44,355 --> 01:39:46,065 They'd have hauled you off at once! 822 01:39:46,148 --> 01:39:48,734 We heard things... 823 01:39:49,068 --> 01:39:52,571 - Rumors? - That's it, rumors. 824 01:39:52,655 --> 01:39:54,657 During the war? 825 01:39:55,407 --> 01:39:57,451 Towards the end of the war. 826 01:39:57,534 --> 01:39:59,328 - Not in 1942? - No! 827 01:39:59,411 --> 01:40:01,747 Good God, no! Not a word! 828 01:40:01,997 --> 01:40:06,502 Towards the end of 1944, maybe. 829 01:40:06,585 --> 01:40:08,462 - End of 1944? - Not before. 830 01:40:08,545 --> 01:40:10,005 What did you...? 831 01:40:10,089 --> 01:40:12,549 It was said that 832 01:40:12,633 --> 01:40:16,345 people were being sent to camps, 833 01:40:16,428 --> 01:40:21,475 and those who weren't in good health probably wouldn't survive. 834 01:40:21,558 --> 01:40:25,229 Extermination came to you as a big surprise? 835 01:40:25,312 --> 01:40:27,106 Completely. Yes. 836 01:40:27,523 --> 01:40:30,192 - You had no idea. - Not the slightest. 837 01:40:30,275 --> 01:40:33,779 Like that camp, what was its name...? 838 01:40:34,446 --> 01:40:37,825 It was in the Oppeln district. 839 01:40:38,367 --> 01:40:40,536 I've got it: Auschwitz! - Yes. 840 01:40:40,619 --> 01:40:43,831 Auschwitz was in the Oppeln district. - Right. 841 01:40:43,914 --> 01:40:48,460 Auschwitz wasn't far from Krakow. - That's true. 842 01:40:48,544 --> 01:40:50,963 We never heard a word about that. 843 01:40:51,630 --> 01:40:55,759 - Auschwitz to Krakow is 40 miles. - That's not very far. 844 01:40:56,135 --> 01:40:58,929 And we knew nothing. Not a clue. 845 01:41:00,472 --> 01:41:03,851 But you knew that the Nazis... 846 01:41:03,934 --> 01:41:09,064 that Hitler didn't like the Jews? 847 01:41:09,148 --> 01:41:10,524 That we did. 848 01:41:10,607 --> 01:41:14,653 It was well-known, it appeared in print. 849 01:41:14,737 --> 01:41:16,488 It was no secret. 850 01:41:16,989 --> 01:41:22,119 But as to their extermination, that was news to us. 851 01:41:22,202 --> 01:41:26,540 I mean, even today people deny it. 852 01:41:26,623 --> 01:41:30,419 They say there couldn't have been so many Jews. 853 01:41:30,502 --> 01:41:32,421 Is it true? I don't know. 854 01:41:32,504 --> 01:41:34,339 That's what they say. 855 01:41:34,548 --> 01:41:38,469 Anyway what was done was an outrage. 856 01:41:38,552 --> 01:41:40,888 - What? - The extermination. 857 01:41:40,971 --> 01:41:44,892 Everyone condemns it. Every decent person. 858 01:41:44,975 --> 01:41:47,352 But as for knowing about it, we didn't. 859 01:41:50,397 --> 01:41:52,649 The Poles, for instance. 860 01:41:53,108 --> 01:41:57,279 The Polish people knew everything. 861 01:41:57,362 --> 01:42:00,365 That's not surprising, Dr. Sorel. 862 01:42:00,449 --> 01:42:05,370 They lived nearby, they heard, they talked. 863 01:42:05,454 --> 01:42:08,832 And they didn't have to keep quiet. 864 01:50:45,724 --> 01:50:50,395 TREBLINKA - THE STATION 865 01:58:02,493 --> 01:58:05,913 The “special detail's” life depended 866 01:58:05,997 --> 01:58:09,459 on the trainloads due for extermination. 867 01:58:25,016 --> 01:58:27,602 When a lot of them came in, 868 01:58:30,480 --> 01:58:33,024 the “special detail” was enlarged. 869 01:58:43,868 --> 01:58:46,704 They couldn't do without the detail, 870 01:58:47,038 --> 01:58:50,666 so there was no weeding-out. 871 01:58:52,293 --> 01:58:56,464 OSWIECIM (AUSCHWITZ) THE STATION TODAY 872 01:58:56,881 --> 01:59:00,885 But when there were fewer trainloads, 873 01:59:04,388 --> 01:59:09,894 it meant immediate extermination for us. 874 01:59:15,650 --> 01:59:18,653 We, in the “special detail, ” knew 875 01:59:18,736 --> 01:59:21,614 that a lack of trains 876 01:59:22,073 --> 01:59:24,784 would lead to our liquidation. 877 01:59:46,097 --> 01:59:50,351 - FILIP MULLER - The “special detail” lived in a crisis situation. 878 01:59:50,434 --> 01:59:54,397 Every day, 879 01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:58,359 we saw thousands and thousands of innocent people 880 01:59:58,609 --> 02:00:01,571 disappear up the chimney. 881 02:00:02,488 --> 02:00:06,951 With our own eyes, we could truly fathom 882 02:00:07,660 --> 02:00:10,538 what it means to be a human being. 883 02:00:11,289 --> 02:00:13,708 There they came, 884 02:00:13,791 --> 02:00:19,005 men, women, children, all innocent. 885 02:00:20,047 --> 02:00:23,426 They suddenly vanished, 886 02:00:23,509 --> 02:00:25,803 and the world said nothing! 887 02:00:25,887 --> 02:00:30,266 We felt abandoned. By the world, by humanity. 888 02:00:30,725 --> 02:00:35,730 But the situation taught us fully 889 02:00:36,898 --> 02:00:41,527 what the possibility of survival meant. 890 02:00:42,987 --> 02:00:44,906 For we could gauge 891 02:00:45,489 --> 02:00:48,618 the infinite value of human life. 892 02:00:49,744 --> 02:00:52,288 And we were convinced 893 02:00:52,830 --> 02:00:58,169 that hope lingers in man as long as he lives. 894 02:00:58,252 --> 02:01:02,256 Where there's life, hope must never be relinquished. 895 02:01:02,340 --> 02:01:06,677 That's why we struggled through our lives of hardship, 896 02:01:06,969 --> 02:01:11,641 day after day, week after week, month after month, 897 02:01:11,724 --> 02:01:14,560 year after year, 898 02:01:15,353 --> 02:01:20,024 hoping against hope to survive, 899 02:01:22,860 --> 02:01:26,447 to escape that hell. 900 02:01:57,728 --> 02:02:00,106 At that time, 901 02:02:00,773 --> 02:02:05,069 in January, February, 902 02:02:06,570 --> 02:02:08,114 March, 903 02:02:09,240 --> 02:02:12,743 hardly any trains arrived. 904 02:02:20,084 --> 02:02:23,212 Was Treblinka glum without the trains? 905 02:02:25,589 --> 02:02:29,510 I wouldn't say the Jews were glum. 906 02:02:29,593 --> 02:02:32,972 They became so when they realized... 907 02:02:33,931 --> 02:02:38,352 I'll come to that later, it's a story in itself. 908 02:02:40,479 --> 02:02:44,984 - Yes, it's a story in itself. - It's a story in itself. 909 02:02:45,067 --> 02:02:46,861 Yes, I know. 910 02:02:47,361 --> 02:02:49,488 The Jews, 911 02:02:51,198 --> 02:02:54,243 those in the work squads, thought at first... 912 02:02:54,326 --> 02:02:57,997 - Those in the work squads, yes. - that they'd survive. 913 02:03:00,041 --> 02:03:04,253 But in January, 914 02:03:04,920 --> 02:03:06,589 when they stopped receiving food, 915 02:03:06,672 --> 02:03:12,303 for Wirth had decreed that there were too many of them, 916 02:03:12,386 --> 02:03:16,307 there were a good 500 to 600 of them in Camp I... 917 02:03:16,724 --> 02:03:19,226 - Up there? - Yes. 918 02:03:21,187 --> 02:03:24,815 To keep them from rebelling, 919 02:03:24,899 --> 02:03:27,943 they weren't shot or gassed, 920 02:03:28,027 --> 02:03:30,821 but starved. 921 02:03:31,030 --> 02:03:33,449 Then an epidemic broke out, 922 02:03:33,991 --> 02:03:37,036 a kind of typhus. 923 02:03:38,496 --> 02:03:42,249 The Jews stopped believing they'd make it. 924 02:03:42,333 --> 02:03:46,087 They were left to die. They dropped like flies. 925 02:03:47,671 --> 02:03:49,673 It was all over. 926 02:03:50,174 --> 02:03:53,594 FRANZ SUCHOMEL 927 02:03:54,011 --> 02:03:56,222 They'd stopped believing. 928 02:03:57,515 --> 02:04:01,185 It was all very well to say... 929 02:04:01,268 --> 02:04:04,063 We kept on insisting, “You're going to live!” 930 02:04:04,146 --> 02:04:06,524 We almost believed it ourselves. 931 02:04:06,607 --> 02:04:10,444 If you lie enough, you believe your own lies. 932 02:04:10,528 --> 02:04:11,904 Yes. 933 02:04:12,863 --> 02:04:15,866 But they replied to me, 934 02:04:15,950 --> 02:04:21,872 “No, chief, we're just reprieved corpses.” 935 02:04:31,632 --> 02:04:35,803 The “dead season,” as it was called, 936 02:04:36,387 --> 02:04:43,727 began in February 1943, 937 02:04:44,937 --> 02:04:49,066 after the big trainloads came in from Grodno and Bialystok. 938 02:04:50,651 --> 02:04:52,778 Absolute quiet. 939 02:04:54,405 --> 02:04:59,493 It quieted in late January, February and into March. 940 02:04:59,577 --> 02:05:00,911 Nothing. 941 02:05:01,412 --> 02:05:04,665 Not one trainload. 942 02:05:07,293 --> 02:05:10,212 The whole camp was empty, 943 02:05:14,258 --> 02:05:19,346 and suddenly, everywhere, there was hunger. 944 02:05:26,437 --> 02:05:29,023 It kept increasing. 945 02:05:33,944 --> 02:05:37,323 And one day when the famine was at its peak, 946 02:05:38,782 --> 02:05:45,623 Oberscharfuhrer Kurt Franz appeared before us 947 02:05:47,958 --> 02:05:49,543 and told us, 948 02:05:50,377 --> 02:05:57,092 “The trains will be coming in again, starting tomorrow.” 949 02:06:09,647 --> 02:06:11,482 We didn't say anything. 950 02:06:11,565 --> 02:06:14,735 We just looked at each other, 951 02:06:15,069 --> 02:06:20,991 and each of us thought, 952 02:06:21,533 --> 02:06:23,410 “Tomorrow 953 02:06:25,829 --> 02:06:29,083 the hunger will end.” 954 02:06:32,670 --> 02:06:35,673 At that period, 955 02:06:36,799 --> 02:06:41,679 we were actively planning the rebellion. 956 02:06:42,554 --> 02:06:46,308 We all wanted to survive until the rebellion. 957 02:06:52,356 --> 02:06:57,194 The trainloads came from an assembly camp in Saloniki. 958 02:06:58,612 --> 02:07:03,242 They'd brought in Jews from Bulgaria, Macedonia. 959 02:07:05,369 --> 02:07:06,954 These were rich people: 960 02:07:07,037 --> 02:07:11,041 The passenger cars bulged with possessions. 961 02:07:14,962 --> 02:07:21,927 Then an awful feeling gripped us, 962 02:07:22,553 --> 02:07:24,888 all of us, my companions as well as myself. 963 02:07:24,972 --> 02:07:30,769 A feeling of helplessness, 964 02:07:30,853 --> 02:07:33,939 a feeling of shame. 965 02:07:36,150 --> 02:07:39,445 For we threw ourselves on their food. 966 02:07:40,070 --> 02:07:47,453 A de tail brought a crate full of crackers, 967 02:07:48,078 --> 02:07:50,831 another full of jam. 968 02:07:50,914 --> 02:07:55,085 They deliberately dropped the crates, 969 02:07:56,211 --> 02:07:58,964 falling over each other, 970 02:07:59,048 --> 02:08:06,138 filling their mouths with crackers and jam. 971 02:08:15,314 --> 02:08:20,944 The trainloads from the Balkans brought us 972 02:08:21,195 --> 02:08:23,822 to a terrible realization: 973 02:08:27,451 --> 02:08:30,412 RICHARD GLAZAR 974 02:08:31,038 --> 02:08:34,917 We were the workers in the Treblinka factory, 975 02:08:35,459 --> 02:08:37,628 and our lives depended 976 02:08:38,170 --> 02:08:43,092 on the whole manufacturing process, 977 02:08:43,842 --> 02:08:47,388 that is, the slaughtering process at Treblinka. 978 02:08:52,601 --> 02:08:57,147 This realization came suddenly 979 02:08:57,231 --> 02:08:59,483 with the fresh trainloads? 980 02:08:59,566 --> 02:09:02,403 Maybe it wasn't so sudden, 981 02:09:03,445 --> 02:09:07,157 but it was only with the Balkans trainloads 982 02:09:07,241 --> 02:09:10,661 that it became... 983 02:09:12,037 --> 02:09:15,958 so stark to us, unadorned. 984 02:09:17,000 --> 02:09:18,419 Why? 985 02:09:18,961 --> 02:09:22,464 24,000 people, 986 02:09:25,384 --> 02:09:30,264 probably with not a sick person among them, 987 02:09:33,767 --> 02:09:38,147 not an invalid, all healthy and robust! 988 02:09:39,022 --> 02:09:43,110 I recall our watching them from our barracks. 989 02:09:44,361 --> 02:09:48,740 They were already naked, milling among their baggage. 990 02:09:48,824 --> 02:09:51,034 And David... 991 02:09:51,702 --> 02:09:54,037 David Bratt said to me, 992 02:09:54,538 --> 02:09:56,248 “Maccabees! 993 02:09:56,331 --> 02:09:59,710 The Maccabees have arrived in Treblinka!” 994 02:10:03,589 --> 02:10:07,968 Sturdy, physically strong people, 995 02:10:10,262 --> 02:10:12,890 unlike the others... 996 02:10:13,891 --> 02:10:14,975 Fighters! 997 02:10:15,058 --> 02:10:18,395 Yes, they could have been fighters. 998 02:10:22,149 --> 02:10:24,693 It was staggering for us, 999 02:10:25,360 --> 02:10:31,158 for these men and women, all splendid, 1000 02:10:32,784 --> 02:10:36,663 were wholly unaware of what was in store for them. 1001 02:10:36,747 --> 02:10:39,249 Wholly unaware. 1002 02:10:44,796 --> 02:10:50,719 Never before had things gone so smoothly and quickly. 1003 02:10:50,802 --> 02:10:52,179 Never. 1004 02:10:57,100 --> 02:11:00,395 We felt ashamed, 1005 02:11:00,479 --> 02:11:06,777 and also that this couldn't go on, that something had to happen. 1006 02:11:09,029 --> 02:11:12,282 Not just a few people acting 1007 02:11:13,158 --> 02:11:16,245 but all of us. 1008 02:11:24,920 --> 02:11:31,218 The idea was almost ripe back in November 1942. 1009 02:11:35,347 --> 02:11:40,310 Beginning in November '42 1010 02:11:41,144 --> 02:11:43,272 we'd noticed 1011 02:11:43,355 --> 02:11:47,651 that we were being “spared,” 1012 02:11:48,694 --> 02:11:51,071 in quotes. 1013 02:11:52,155 --> 02:11:55,075 We noticed it 1014 02:11:55,158 --> 02:11:57,327 and we also learned 1015 02:11:58,328 --> 02:12:03,584 that Stangl, the commandant, wanted, for efficiency's sake, 1016 02:12:03,667 --> 02:12:06,670 to hang on to men who were already trained, 1017 02:12:07,754 --> 02:12:11,967 specialists in the various tasks: 1018 02:12:12,050 --> 02:12:14,469 sorters, corpse-haulers, 1019 02:12:14,553 --> 02:12:19,600 barbers who cut the women's hair, 1020 02:12:19,683 --> 02:12:21,184 and so on. 1021 02:12:26,064 --> 02:12:33,405 This in fact is what later gave us the chance 1022 02:12:34,031 --> 02:12:35,741 to prepare, 1023 02:12:35,824 --> 02:12:39,328 to organize the uprising. 1024 02:12:50,714 --> 02:12:52,883 We had a plan 1025 02:12:52,966 --> 02:12:57,387 worked out in January 1943, 1026 02:12:58,096 --> 02:13:02,059 code-named “The Time.” 1027 02:13:04,186 --> 02:13:06,146 At a set time, 1028 02:13:06,229 --> 02:13:13,153 we were to attack the SS everywhere, 1029 02:13:14,154 --> 02:13:19,242 seize their weapons and attack the Kommandantur. 1030 02:13:21,870 --> 02:13:25,040 But we couldn't do it 1031 02:13:25,624 --> 02:13:30,087 because things were at a standstill in the camp, 1032 02:13:30,671 --> 02:13:34,091 and because typhus had already broken out. 1033 02:13:58,198 --> 02:14:02,452 In the fall of 1943, 1034 02:14:04,121 --> 02:14:10,127 when it was clear to all of us 1035 02:14:11,044 --> 02:14:14,381 that no one would help us 1036 02:14:16,007 --> 02:14:19,094 unless we helped ourselves, 1037 02:14:21,680 --> 02:14:25,642 a key question faced us all: 1038 02:14:27,936 --> 02:14:31,273 For us in the 'Special detail, ” 1039 02:14:32,023 --> 02:14:35,485 was there any chance to halt this wave of extermination 1040 02:14:35,986 --> 02:14:39,656 and still save our lives? 1041 02:14:46,872 --> 02:14:51,835 We could see only one: 1042 02:14:54,045 --> 02:14:58,425 armed rebellion. 1043 02:15:02,846 --> 02:15:05,348 We thought 1044 02:15:06,308 --> 02:15:11,354 that if we could get hold of a few weapons 1045 02:15:14,483 --> 02:15:19,780 and secure the participation of all the inmates 1046 02:15:22,240 --> 02:15:24,367 throughout the camp, 1047 02:15:24,451 --> 02:15:28,038 there was a chance of success. 1048 02:15:30,290 --> 02:15:33,293 That was the essential thing. 1049 02:15:36,296 --> 02:15:39,549 That's why our liaison men 1050 02:15:40,675 --> 02:15:47,140 contacted the leaders of the Resistance movement, 1051 02:15:47,224 --> 02:15:48,725 first in Birkenau, 1052 02:15:48,975 --> 02:15:51,561 then in Auschwitz I, 1053 02:15:53,980 --> 02:15:57,859 so the revolt could be coordinated everywhere. 1054 02:16:02,572 --> 02:16:04,616 FILIP MULLER 1055 02:16:04,866 --> 02:16:07,410 The answer came 1056 02:16:07,494 --> 02:16:11,623 that the Resistance command in Auschwitz I 1057 02:16:11,706 --> 02:16:14,751 agreed with our plan 1058 02:16:15,502 --> 02:16:20,173 and would join with us. 1059 02:16:29,266 --> 02:16:34,062 Unfortunately, among the Resistance leaders, 1060 02:16:35,313 --> 02:16:39,401 there were very few Jews. 1061 02:16:40,402 --> 02:16:43,280 Most were political prisoners 1062 02:16:44,322 --> 02:16:47,409 whose lives weren't at stake, 1063 02:16:48,618 --> 02:16:52,581 and for whom each day of life lived through 1064 02:16:52,664 --> 02:16:58,086 increased their chances of survival. 1065 02:16:59,296 --> 02:17:03,925 For us in the “special detail, ” it was the opposite. 1066 02:17:10,682 --> 02:17:14,102 RUDOLF VRBA 1067 02:18:27,842 --> 02:18:31,221 AUSCHWITZ - BIRKENAU 1068 02:27:05,776 --> 02:27:10,406 RUTH ELIAS - ISRAEL Deported from Theresienstadt 1069 02:38:25,873 --> 02:38:29,084 CREMATORIUM V 1070 02:38:30,335 --> 02:38:32,254 At the end of February, 1071 02:38:33,213 --> 02:38:37,551 I was in a night squad at Crematorium V. 1072 02:38:40,804 --> 02:38:43,015 Around midnight, 1073 02:38:44,266 --> 02:38:48,186 there appeared a man from the political section: 1074 02:38:49,021 --> 02:38:51,523 Oberscharfuhrer Hustek. 1075 02:38:55,235 --> 02:38:59,698 He handed Oberscharfuhrer Voss a note. 1076 02:39:07,706 --> 02:39:15,547 Voss was then in charge of the 4 crematoria. 1077 02:39:19,676 --> 02:39:24,848 I saw Voss unfold the note 1078 02:39:29,978 --> 02:39:34,816 and talk to himself, saying, “Sure, always Voss. 1079 02:39:35,359 --> 02:39:41,073 What'd they do without Voss? How can we do it?” 1080 02:39:41,156 --> 02:39:43,116 That's how he talked to himself. 1081 02:39:43,200 --> 02:39:47,245 Suddenly he told me, “Go get the kapos.” 1082 02:39:47,329 --> 02:39:51,750 I fetched the kapos, kapo Schloime, 1083 02:39:52,292 --> 02:39:55,003 and kapo Wacek. 1084 02:39:55,087 --> 02:39:59,049 They came in, and he asked them, 1085 02:39:59,132 --> 02:40:00,968 “How many pieces are left?” 1086 02:40:01,051 --> 02:40:04,012 By “pieces” he meant bodies. 1087 02:40:04,096 --> 02:40:08,558 They told him, “Around 500 pieces.” 1088 02:40:09,559 --> 02:40:14,314 He said, “By morning, those 500 pieces must be... 1089 02:40:18,151 --> 02:40:20,570 reduced to ashes. 1090 02:40:21,488 --> 02:40:24,074 You're sure it's 500?” 1091 02:40:24,157 --> 02:40:26,118 “Just about,” they said. 1092 02:40:26,201 --> 02:40:29,871 “Assholes! What do you mean, just about?” 1093 02:40:30,622 --> 02:40:33,250 Then he left 1094 02:40:33,333 --> 02:40:38,463 for the “undressing room” to see for himself. 1095 02:40:38,547 --> 02:40:40,090 Where the bodies were? 1096 02:40:40,173 --> 02:40:42,634 They were piled there: 1097 02:40:42,718 --> 02:40:46,138 At Crematorium V, the “undressing room” also served 1098 02:40:46,221 --> 02:40:48,807 as a warehouse for bodies. 1099 02:40:48,890 --> 02:40:49,975 After the gassing? 1100 02:40:50,058 --> 02:40:54,688 After the gassing the bodies were dragged there. 1101 02:40:54,771 --> 02:40:57,941 Voss went there to check. 1102 02:40:58,025 --> 02:41:04,614 He forgot the note, leaving it on the table. 1103 02:41:06,033 --> 02:41:10,328 I quickly scanned it 1104 02:41:11,329 --> 02:41:14,875 and was shocked by what I read. 1105 02:41:16,418 --> 02:41:19,880 BIRKENAU THE LAKE OF ASHES 1106 02:41:25,469 --> 02:41:30,432 The crematorium was to be gotten ready 1107 02:41:32,517 --> 02:41:38,982 for “special treatment” of the Czech family camp. 1108 02:41:46,782 --> 02:41:51,787 In the morning, when the day squad came on, 1109 02:41:53,121 --> 02:41:56,792 I ran into kapo Kaminski, 1110 02:41:57,417 --> 02:42:03,298 one of the Resistance leaders in the “special detail” 1111 02:42:04,341 --> 02:42:07,552 and told him the news. 1112 02:42:08,804 --> 02:42:10,680 He informed me 1113 02:42:11,973 --> 02:42:18,480 that Crematorium II was also being prepared. 1114 02:42:18,897 --> 02:42:22,567 That the ovens were ready there, too. 1115 02:42:30,575 --> 02:42:32,661 And he exhorted me, 1116 02:42:33,370 --> 02:42:37,666 “You have friends and fellow countrymen. 1117 02:42:39,292 --> 02:42:44,047 Go see them. They're locksmiths and can move around 1118 02:42:44,131 --> 02:42:47,717 so they can go to Camp B II B. 1119 02:42:48,468 --> 02:42:51,513 Tell them to warn these people 1120 02:42:51,596 --> 02:42:54,182 of what's in store for them, 1121 02:42:54,266 --> 02:42:57,018 and say that if they defend themselves, 1122 02:42:57,102 --> 02:43:02,607 we'll reduce the crematoria to ashes. 1123 02:43:03,817 --> 02:43:07,279 And at Camp B II B, 1124 02:43:07,737 --> 02:43:10,323 they can immediately burn down their barracks.” 1125 02:43:15,203 --> 02:43:18,540 We were certain that the next night, 1126 02:43:18,623 --> 02:43:21,251 these people would be gassed. 1127 02:43:21,668 --> 02:43:26,756 But when no night squad went out, we were relieved. 1128 02:43:28,466 --> 02:43:31,052 The deadline had been postponed 1129 02:43:31,887 --> 02:43:35,390 for a few days. 1130 02:43:35,473 --> 02:43:37,100 But many prisoners, 1131 02:43:37,184 --> 02:43:41,563 including the Czechs in the family camp, 1132 02:43:41,646 --> 02:43:45,317 accused us of spreading panic, 1133 02:43:45,400 --> 02:43:47,736 of having... 1134 02:43:49,571 --> 02:43:54,826 of having circulated false reports. 1135 02:54:22,411 --> 02:54:26,499 That night I was at Crematorium II. 1136 02:54:32,296 --> 02:54:37,927 As soon as the people got out of the vans, 1137 02:54:38,177 --> 02:54:41,639 they were blinded by floodlights 1138 02:54:41,722 --> 02:54:44,225 and forced through a corridor 1139 02:54:44,308 --> 02:54:52,275 to the stairs leading to the “undressing room.” 1140 02:54:52,358 --> 02:54:56,487 They were blinded, made to run. 1141 02:54:56,571 --> 02:54:59,198 Blows were rained on them. 1142 02:55:00,199 --> 02:55:04,829 Those who didn't run fast enough were beaten to death 1143 02:55:04,912 --> 02:55:07,164 by the SS. 1144 02:55:07,248 --> 02:55:12,587 The violence used against them was extraordinary. 1145 02:55:13,296 --> 02:55:14,839 And suddenly... 1146 02:55:14,922 --> 02:55:16,757 Without explanation? 1147 02:55:16,841 --> 02:55:18,551 Not a word. 1148 02:55:18,634 --> 02:55:22,388 As soon as they left the vans, 1149 02:55:22,471 --> 02:55:25,766 the beatings began. 1150 02:55:26,934 --> 02:55:30,521 When they entered the “undressing room,” 1151 02:55:30,897 --> 02:55:37,737 I was standing near the rear door, 1152 02:55:38,779 --> 02:55:43,034 and from there I witnessed the frightful scene. 1153 02:55:43,117 --> 02:55:46,621 The people were bloodied. 1154 02:55:47,496 --> 02:55:49,790 They knew then where they were. 1155 02:55:49,874 --> 02:55:52,752 They stared at the pillars 1156 02:55:53,127 --> 02:56:00,343 of the so-called “international Information Center” I've mentioned, 1157 02:56:00,801 --> 02:56:03,137 and that terrified them. 1158 02:56:03,220 --> 02:56:05,264 What they read didn't reassure them. 1159 02:56:05,348 --> 02:56:10,519 On the contrary, it panicked them. 1160 02:56:10,603 --> 02:56:13,022 They knew the score. 1161 02:56:13,105 --> 02:56:17,777 They'd learned at Camp B ll B what went on there. 1162 02:56:17,860 --> 02:56:19,737 They were in despair. 1163 02:56:19,820 --> 02:56:22,323 Children clung to each other. 1164 02:56:22,823 --> 02:56:25,159 Their mothers, 1165 02:56:26,577 --> 02:56:30,456 their parents, the old people all cried, 1166 02:56:30,539 --> 02:56:32,124 overcome with misery. 1167 02:56:32,208 --> 02:56:34,168 Suddenly, 1168 02:56:34,251 --> 02:56:39,548 some SS officers appeared on the steps, 1169 02:56:39,632 --> 02:56:46,180 including the camp commandant, Schwarzhuber. 1170 02:56:46,263 --> 02:56:52,895 He'd given them his word as an SS officer 1171 02:56:52,979 --> 02:56:59,026 that they'd be transferred to Heydebreck. 1172 02:56:59,110 --> 02:57:04,991 So they all began to cry out, to beg, 1173 02:57:05,866 --> 02:57:10,496 shouting, “Heydebreck was a trick! 1174 02:57:10,579 --> 02:57:15,459 We were lied to! We want to live! We want to work!” 1175 02:57:15,543 --> 02:57:20,715 They looked their SS executioners in the eye, 1176 02:57:20,798 --> 02:57:23,801 but the SS men 1177 02:57:26,345 --> 02:57:28,681 remained impassive, 1178 02:57:28,764 --> 02:57:30,599 just staring at them. 1179 02:57:30,683 --> 02:57:33,561 There was a movement in the crowd. 1180 02:57:33,644 --> 02:57:39,025 They probably wanted to rush to the SS men 1181 02:57:39,108 --> 02:57:41,736 and tell them how they'd been lied to. 1182 02:57:41,819 --> 02:57:47,116 Then some guards surged forward, 1183 02:57:47,199 --> 02:57:50,536 wielding clubs, 1184 02:57:50,619 --> 02:57:53,164 and more people were injured. 1185 02:57:53,873 --> 02:57:56,208 In the “undressing room.” 1186 02:57:56,292 --> 02:57:58,586 The violence climaxed 1187 02:57:58,669 --> 02:58:07,511 when they tried to force the people to undress. 1188 02:58:07,595 --> 02:58:09,722 A few obeyed, 1189 02:58:09,805 --> 02:58:13,142 only a handful. 1190 02:58:13,225 --> 02:58:19,774 Most of them refused to follow the order. 1191 02:58:20,024 --> 02:58:23,944 Suddenly, as though in chorus, 1192 02:58:25,404 --> 02:58:28,616 like a chorus... 1193 02:58:28,699 --> 02:58:32,369 they all began to sing. 1194 02:58:34,330 --> 02:58:38,959 The whole “undressing room” rang 1195 02:58:39,043 --> 02:58:43,631 with the Czech national anthem, 1196 02:58:43,714 --> 02:58:46,342 and the “Hatikva.” 1197 02:58:46,884 --> 02:58:51,305 That moved me terribly, that... 1198 02:59:09,990 --> 02:59:12,284 Please stop! 1199 02:59:13,869 --> 02:59:18,499 That was happening to my countrymen, 1200 02:59:18,707 --> 02:59:20,918 and I realized 1201 02:59:21,710 --> 02:59:25,464 that my life had become meaningless. 1202 02:59:26,298 --> 02:59:29,426 Why go on living? For what? 1203 02:59:31,762 --> 02:59:36,767 So I went into the gas chamber with them, 1204 02:59:39,728 --> 02:59:42,523 resolved to die. 1205 02:59:44,400 --> 02:59:46,443 With them. 1206 02:59:47,027 --> 02:59:51,991 Suddenly, some who recognized me came up to me. 1207 02:59:52,491 --> 02:59:55,911 For my locksmith friends and I 1208 02:59:55,995 --> 02:59:59,123 had sometimes gone into the family camp. 1209 03:00:02,418 --> 03:00:08,424 A small group of women approached. 1210 03:00:08,716 --> 03:00:13,387 They looked at me and said right there in the gas chamber... 1211 03:00:13,470 --> 03:00:15,681 You were inside the gas chamber? 1212 03:00:15,764 --> 03:00:18,142 One of them said, 1213 03:00:22,229 --> 03:00:25,399 “So you want to die. 1214 03:00:25,733 --> 03:00:27,568 But that's senseless. 1215 03:00:27,651 --> 03:00:32,072 Your death won't give us back our lives. 1216 03:00:32,990 --> 03:00:35,409 That's no way. 1217 03:00:36,994 --> 03:00:41,415 You must get out of here alive, 1218 03:00:42,583 --> 03:00:46,545 you must bear witness to our suffering, 1219 03:00:46,629 --> 03:00:50,257 and to the injustice done to us.” 1220 03:02:36,697 --> 03:02:39,700 Rudolf Vrba and his friend Wetzler 1221 03:02:40,034 --> 03:02:43,579 escaped on April 7, 1944. 1222 03:02:43,912 --> 03:02:47,041 Several prisoners had previously tried to flee, 1223 03:02:47,374 --> 03:02:50,377 but all were caught. 1224 03:06:10,744 --> 03:06:14,623 JAN KARSKY, University Professor (USA) 1225 03:06:15,249 --> 03:06:19,378 Former courier of the Polish government in exile 1226 03:14:16,312 --> 03:14:19,232 NEW YORK 1227 03:16:36,035 --> 03:16:37,829 WASHINGTON 1228 03:20:44,742 --> 03:20:47,703 THE RUHR 1229 03:24:52,156 --> 03:24:55,242 AUSCHWITZ - BIRKENAU 1230 03:29:40,486 --> 03:29:43,489 WARSAW 1231 03:45:26,222 --> 03:45:28,975 WARSAW 1232 03:45:34,355 --> 03:45:40,445 Next figure: Dr FRANZ GRASSLER, deputy to Auerswald, 1233 03:45:41,946 --> 03:45:48,286 the Nazi Commissioner of the Warsaw ghetto 1234 03:46:17,148 --> 03:46:21,611 You don't remember those days? 1235 03:46:24,364 --> 03:46:26,115 Not much. 1236 03:46:27,867 --> 03:46:31,579 I recall more clearly my pre-war mountaineering trips 1237 03:46:31,663 --> 03:46:33,790 than the entire war period 1238 03:46:33,873 --> 03:46:36,584 and those days in Warsaw. 1239 03:46:40,338 --> 03:46:44,759 All in all, those were bad times. 1240 03:46:47,971 --> 03:46:50,932 It's a fact: we tend to forget, 1241 03:46:51,599 --> 03:46:53,226 thank God, 1242 03:46:53,601 --> 03:46:56,396 the bad times more easily than the good. 1243 03:47:01,651 --> 03:47:04,445 The bad times are repressed. 1244 03:47:10,535 --> 03:47:13,746 I'll help you remember... 1245 03:47:18,793 --> 03:47:24,716 In Warsaw, you were Dr. Auerswald's deputy. 1246 03:47:25,842 --> 03:47:27,176 Yes. 1247 03:47:29,887 --> 03:47:31,889 Dr. Auerswald was... 1248 03:47:31,973 --> 03:47:35,518 Commissioner of the “Jewish district” of Warsaw. 1249 03:47:38,688 --> 03:47:42,734 Dr. Grassier, this is Czerniakow's diary. 1250 03:47:42,817 --> 03:47:44,610 You're mentioned in it. 1251 03:47:44,694 --> 03:47:47,196 It's been printed, it exists? 1252 03:47:47,405 --> 03:47:50,783 He kept a diary 1253 03:47:51,826 --> 03:47:56,789 that was recently published. 1254 03:48:00,209 --> 03:48:07,508 He wrote on July 7, 1941 1255 03:48:07,967 --> 03:48:09,218 July 7, 1941? 1256 03:48:09,302 --> 03:48:13,806 That's the first time I've relearned a date. 1257 03:48:15,433 --> 03:48:17,518 May I take notes? 1258 03:48:17,769 --> 03:48:21,689 After all... it interests me too. 1259 03:48:22,607 --> 03:48:26,235 So in July I was already there! 1260 03:48:28,071 --> 03:48:32,033 He wrote on July 7, 1941, 1261 03:48:33,159 --> 03:48:39,165 “Morning in the Community” - the Jewish Council HQ - 1262 03:48:39,582 --> 03:48:43,544 “and later with Auerswald, Schlosser...” 1263 03:48:44,545 --> 03:48:45,755 Schlosser was... 1264 03:48:45,838 --> 03:48:48,216 “and Grassier, 1265 03:48:50,551 --> 03:48:53,554 on routine matters.” 1266 03:48:54,013 --> 03:48:56,349 That's the first time... 1267 03:48:56,432 --> 03:48:58,184 That my name is mentioned... 1268 03:48:58,726 --> 03:49:01,062 Yes, but there were 3 of us. 1269 03:49:01,145 --> 03:49:04,899 Schlosser... was in... the “economic department.” 1270 03:49:04,982 --> 03:49:08,653 I think he had to do with economics. 1271 03:49:10,029 --> 03:49:14,117 And the second time 1272 03:49:15,284 --> 03:49:18,955 was on July 22. 1273 03:49:20,081 --> 03:49:25,378 Czerniakow was president of the Warsaw Jewish Council 1274 03:49:26,295 --> 03:49:28,422 He wrote every day? 1275 03:49:28,506 --> 03:49:29,632 Yes. 1276 03:49:30,216 --> 03:49:31,926 Yes, every day. 1277 03:49:32,635 --> 03:49:35,513 It's quite amazing... 1278 03:49:36,681 --> 03:49:38,891 That the diary was saved. 1279 03:49:39,475 --> 03:49:42,603 It's amazing that it was saved. 1280 03:49:47,984 --> 03:49:52,238 BURLINGTON - VERMONT (USA) 1281 03:50:50,588 --> 03:50:53,216 RAUL HILBERG 1282 03:56:30,344 --> 03:56:32,805 Did you go into the ghetto? 1283 03:56:33,389 --> 03:56:37,184 Seldom. When I had to visit Czerniakow. 1284 03:56:38,185 --> 03:56:41,480 What were the conditions like? 1285 03:56:41,564 --> 03:56:43,190 Awful. 1286 03:56:43,274 --> 03:56:46,110 Yes' appalling - Yes? 1287 03:56:46,193 --> 03:56:51,490 I never went back when I saw what it was like. 1288 03:56:51,574 --> 03:56:53,492 Unless I had to. 1289 03:56:53,576 --> 03:57:01,333 In the whole period I think I only went once or twice. 1290 03:57:01,417 --> 03:57:05,462 We, at the Commission, tried 1291 03:57:06,088 --> 03:57:09,717 to maintain the ghetto for its labor force, 1292 03:57:09,800 --> 03:57:14,805 and especially to prevent epidemic, like typhus. 1293 03:57:14,888 --> 03:57:16,765 That was the big danger. 1294 03:57:22,104 --> 03:57:23,897 - Yes. - Yes? 1295 03:57:24,148 --> 03:57:27,735 Can you tell us about typhus? 1296 03:57:29,528 --> 03:57:31,405 I'm not a doctor. 1297 03:57:31,488 --> 03:57:36,702 I only know that typhus is a very dangerous epidemic 1298 03:57:36,785 --> 03:57:41,624 that wipes people out like the plague, 1299 03:57:41,707 --> 03:57:44,710 and that it can't be confined to a ghetto. 1300 03:57:44,793 --> 03:57:47,755 If typhus had broken out... 1301 03:57:47,838 --> 03:57:49,423 I don't think it did, 1302 03:57:49,506 --> 03:57:52,259 but there was fear that it might... 1303 03:57:52,343 --> 03:57:55,262 it would have killed the Poles and the Germans. 1304 03:57:55,346 --> 03:57:58,932 Why was there typhus in the ghetto? 1305 03:57:59,433 --> 03:58:00,934 I don't know if there was, 1306 03:58:01,018 --> 03:58:05,397 but there was a danger, because of the famine. 1307 03:58:05,481 --> 03:58:08,442 People didn't get enough to eat. 1308 03:58:08,734 --> 03:58:13,530 That's what was so awful. 1309 03:58:13,614 --> 03:58:18,410 We, at the Commission, 1310 03:58:18,494 --> 03:58:22,373 did our best to feed the ghetto, 1311 03:58:22,456 --> 03:58:29,588 so it wouldn't become an incubator of epidemics. 1312 03:58:29,672 --> 03:58:34,968 Aside from humanitarian factors, that's what mattered. 1313 03:58:35,427 --> 03:58:40,432 If typhus had broken out... and it didn't... 1314 03:58:40,516 --> 03:58:44,144 it wouldn't have stopped at the ghetto. 1315 03:58:44,687 --> 03:58:48,732 Czerniakow also wrote that 1316 03:58:48,816 --> 03:58:54,321 one of the reasons the ghetto was walled in 1317 03:58:54,697 --> 03:58:57,574 was because of this German fear. 1318 03:58:57,991 --> 03:59:00,953 Yes, absolutely! Fear of typhus. 1319 03:59:01,036 --> 03:59:08,127 He says Germans always associated Jews with typhus. 1320 03:59:08,210 --> 03:59:09,461 Maybe. 1321 03:59:09,545 --> 03:59:13,048 I'm not sure if there were grounds for it. 1322 03:59:13,966 --> 03:59:18,679 But imagine that mass of people packed in the ghetto... 1323 03:59:18,762 --> 03:59:22,850 There weren't only the Warsaw Jews, 1324 03:59:22,933 --> 03:59:24,810 but others who came later. 1325 03:59:24,893 --> 03:59:27,646 The danger kept on growing. 1326 04:02:42,299 --> 04:02:48,472 The Germans had a policy on the Warsaw ghetto. 1327 04:02:50,515 --> 04:02:53,060 What was that policy? 1328 04:02:55,979 --> 04:02:58,774 You're asking more than I know. 1329 04:02:58,857 --> 04:03:02,611 The policy that wound up with extermination, 1330 04:03:03,278 --> 04:03:04,821 the Final Solution... 1331 04:03:04,905 --> 04:03:07,491 we knew nothing about it. 1332 04:03:07,574 --> 04:03:10,661 Ourjob was to maintain the ghetto, 1333 04:03:10,744 --> 04:03:15,707 and try to preserve the Jews as a work force. 1334 04:03:16,333 --> 04:03:21,838 The Commission's goal, 1335 04:03:21,922 --> 04:03:23,966 in fact, was very different 1336 04:03:24,049 --> 04:03:29,346 from the one that later led to extermination. 1337 04:03:30,555 --> 04:03:33,684 Yes, but do you know how many people died 1338 04:03:33,767 --> 04:03:37,354 in the ghetto each month in 1941? 1339 04:03:37,437 --> 04:03:40,649 I don't know now... if I ever knew it. 1340 04:03:40,732 --> 04:03:45,195 But you did know. There are exact figures. 1341 04:03:46,947 --> 04:03:48,532 I probably knew... 1342 04:03:48,615 --> 04:03:52,995 Yes: 5,000 a month. 1343 04:03:53,078 --> 04:03:55,580 5,000 a month? Yes, well... 1344 04:03:55,664 --> 04:03:58,291 - That's a lot. - That's a lot, of course. 1345 04:03:58,375 --> 04:04:03,171 But there were far too many people in the ghetto. 1346 04:04:03,255 --> 04:04:05,549 That was it. Far too many. 1347 04:04:06,550 --> 04:04:09,219 Far too many. 1348 04:04:15,517 --> 04:04:18,478 My question is philosophical. 1349 04:04:19,646 --> 04:04:23,358 What does a ghetto mean, in your opinion? 1350 04:04:27,863 --> 04:04:32,743 History's full of ghettos, 1351 04:04:33,326 --> 04:04:36,913 going back centuries, for all I know. 1352 04:04:39,082 --> 04:04:41,877 Persecution of the Jews wasn't a German invention, 1353 04:04:41,960 --> 04:04:45,505 and it didn't start with World War II. 1354 04:04:48,216 --> 04:04:50,886 The Poles persecuted them too. 1355 04:04:55,223 --> 04:04:57,768 But a ghetto like Warsaw's, 1356 04:04:57,851 --> 04:05:00,353 in a great capital, 1357 04:05:01,313 --> 04:05:03,273 in the heart of the city. 1358 04:05:03,523 --> 04:05:05,984 That was unusual. 1359 04:05:13,867 --> 04:05:18,080 You say you wanted to maintain the ghetto. 1360 04:05:18,163 --> 04:05:23,001 Our mission wasn't to annihilate the ghetto, 1361 04:05:23,085 --> 04:05:26,171 but to keep it alive, to maintain it. 1362 04:05:26,254 --> 04:05:29,382 What does “alive” mean in such... 1363 04:05:30,217 --> 04:05:31,885 That was the problem. 1364 04:05:31,968 --> 04:05:33,637 That was the whole problem... 1365 04:05:33,720 --> 04:05:36,723 The problem needed to be resolved. I knew that. 1366 04:05:36,807 --> 04:05:40,894 But people were dying in the streets. 1367 04:05:41,978 --> 04:05:44,940 There were bodies everywhere. - Yes. 1368 04:05:47,484 --> 04:05:50,570 That was the paradox. 1369 04:05:50,654 --> 04:05:54,282 - You see it as a paradox? - I'm sure of it. 1370 04:05:54,366 --> 04:05:56,076 Why? 1371 04:05:57,119 --> 04:05:59,371 Can you explain? - No. 1372 04:06:00,872 --> 04:06:02,332 Why not? 1373 04:06:02,833 --> 04:06:06,753 Explain what? 1374 04:06:06,837 --> 04:06:09,798 But the fact is... 1375 04:06:09,881 --> 04:06:14,678 Jews were being exterminated daily in the ghetto. 1376 04:06:15,011 --> 04:06:16,263 Czerniakow wrote... 1377 04:06:16,346 --> 04:06:18,849 To maintain it properly, 1378 04:06:18,932 --> 04:06:22,727 we'd have needed more substantial rations, 1379 04:06:22,811 --> 04:06:25,605 and less crowding. 1380 04:06:26,439 --> 04:06:31,027 Why weren't the rations more humane? 1381 04:06:33,280 --> 04:06:35,073 Why weren't they? 1382 04:06:35,866 --> 04:06:38,827 That was a German decision, no? 1383 04:06:39,202 --> 04:06:44,875 There was no real decision to starve the ghetto. 1384 04:06:44,958 --> 04:06:51,339 The big decision to exterminate came much later. 1385 04:06:51,548 --> 04:06:55,385 That's right, later. In 1942. 1386 04:06:55,677 --> 04:06:57,554 Precisely! 1387 04:06:58,221 --> 04:07:00,974 - 3 years later. - Just so. 1388 04:07:01,057 --> 04:07:04,895 Our mission, as I recall it, 1389 04:07:04,978 --> 04:07:09,941 was to manage the ghetto, 1390 04:07:10,942 --> 04:07:17,324 and, naturally, with those inadequate rations, 1391 04:07:17,407 --> 04:07:19,701 and the overcrowding, 1392 04:07:19,784 --> 04:07:24,915 a high, even excessive death rate was inevitable. 1393 04:07:25,248 --> 04:07:26,583 Yes. 1394 04:07:29,502 --> 04:07:34,716 What does “maintain” the ghetto mean in such conditions... 1395 04:07:34,799 --> 04:07:37,761 the food, sanitation, etc.? 1396 04:07:38,470 --> 04:07:42,807 What could the Jews do against such measures? 1397 04:07:48,605 --> 04:07:50,982 They couldn't do anything. 1398 04:10:55,166 --> 04:10:59,754 The Final Solution Conference was held here 1399 04:12:55,203 --> 04:13:00,124 BELZEC SITE OF THE EXTERMINATION CAMP 1400 04:14:48,191 --> 04:14:52,445 Why did Czerniakow commit suicide? 1401 04:14:53,529 --> 04:15:00,662 Because he realized there was no future for the ghetto. 1402 04:15:00,745 --> 04:15:06,042 He probably saw before I did that the Jews would be killed. 1403 04:15:08,836 --> 04:15:16,219 I suppose the Jews already had their excellent secret services. 1404 04:15:16,511 --> 04:15:19,263 They were too well informed, 1405 04:15:19,347 --> 04:15:21,432 better than we were. 1406 04:15:22,016 --> 04:15:24,018 - Think so? - Yes, I do. 1407 04:15:24,102 --> 04:15:26,771 The Jews knew more than you? 1408 04:15:26,854 --> 04:15:29,357 I'm convinced of it! 1409 04:15:29,440 --> 04:15:32,360 It's hard to believe. 1410 04:15:32,443 --> 04:15:36,531 The German administration was never informed 1411 04:15:36,614 --> 04:15:39,951 of what would happen to the Jews. 1412 04:15:43,996 --> 04:15:47,625 When was the first deportation to Treblinka? 1413 04:15:54,966 --> 04:15:58,428 Before Auerswald's suicide, I think. 1414 04:15:59,804 --> 04:16:00,972 Auerswald's? 1415 04:16:01,055 --> 04:16:04,392 I mean Czerniakow's. Sorry. 1416 04:16:05,309 --> 04:16:07,437 July 22. 1417 04:16:08,604 --> 04:16:11,983 Those are dates... 1418 04:16:12,608 --> 04:16:17,196 So the deportations began July 22, 1942. 1419 04:16:17,280 --> 04:16:18,656 Yes. 1420 04:16:19,949 --> 04:16:21,367 To... Treblinka. 1421 04:16:21,451 --> 04:16:25,705 And Czerniakow killed himself July 23. 1422 04:16:26,539 --> 04:16:28,249 Yes, that is... 1423 04:16:28,332 --> 04:16:29,834 - The next day. - The next day. 1424 04:16:29,917 --> 04:16:33,713 So that was it, he'd realized 1425 04:16:33,796 --> 04:16:36,716 that his idea... 1426 04:16:36,799 --> 04:16:41,220 it was his idea, I think, of working in good faith with the Germans, 1427 04:16:41,304 --> 04:16:45,224 in the Jews' best interests. 1428 04:16:45,308 --> 04:16:50,980 He'd realized this idea, this dream was destroyed. 1429 04:16:51,731 --> 04:16:55,485 - That the idea was a dream. - Yes. 1430 04:16:55,818 --> 04:17:00,740 And when the dream faded, he took the logical way out. 1431 04:22:07,963 --> 04:22:12,718 Did you think this idea of a ghetto was a good one? 1432 04:22:12,802 --> 04:22:16,472 A sort of self-management, right? - That's right. 1433 04:22:16,555 --> 04:22:18,474 A mini-State? 1434 04:22:18,849 --> 04:22:21,310 It worked well. 1435 04:22:21,977 --> 04:22:25,147 But it was self-management for death, no? 1436 04:22:25,815 --> 04:22:28,818 We know that now. But at the time... 1437 04:22:28,901 --> 04:22:31,237 - Even then! - No! 1438 04:22:31,320 --> 04:22:32,905 Czerniakow wrote, 1439 04:22:32,988 --> 04:22:37,868 “We're puppets, we have no power.” 1440 04:22:37,952 --> 04:22:38,786 Yes. 1441 04:22:38,869 --> 04:22:40,412 No power. 1442 04:22:40,496 --> 04:22:42,915 Sure... that was... 1443 04:22:43,165 --> 04:22:48,170 - You Germans were the overlords. - Yes. 1444 04:22:48,254 --> 04:22:50,965 The overlords. The masters. 1445 04:22:51,048 --> 04:22:52,925 Obviously. 1446 04:22:53,008 --> 04:22:57,888 Czerniakow was merely a tool. 1447 04:22:58,180 --> 04:23:03,102 Yes, but a good tool. 1448 04:23:03,185 --> 04:23:07,940 Jewish self-management worked well, I can tell you. 1449 04:23:09,150 --> 04:23:13,070 It worked well for 3 years, 1450 04:23:15,531 --> 04:23:19,410 1941,1942,1943... 2112 years... and 'm the end... 1451 04:23:19,493 --> 04:23:21,120 In the end... 1452 04:23:21,203 --> 04:23:24,707 “Worked well” for what? 1453 04:23:24,790 --> 04:23:26,667 To what end? 1454 04:23:27,293 --> 04:23:30,462 For self-preservation. 1455 04:23:30,546 --> 04:23:32,506 No! For death! 1456 04:23:32,590 --> 04:23:33,632 Yes, but... 1457 04:23:33,716 --> 04:23:36,802 Self-management, self-preservation... 1458 04:23:36,886 --> 04:23:39,221 That's easy to say now. 1459 04:23:39,513 --> 04:23:45,436 You admitted the conditions were inhuman. 1460 04:23:45,519 --> 04:23:47,855 Atrocious... horrible! 1461 04:23:49,023 --> 04:23:52,985 So it was clear even then... 1462 04:23:54,069 --> 04:23:57,239 No! Extermination wasn't clear. 1463 04:23:58,240 --> 04:24:00,951 Now we see the result. 1464 04:24:01,035 --> 04:24:03,454 Extermination isn't so simple. 1465 04:24:03,537 --> 04:24:05,831 One step was taken, 1466 04:24:05,915 --> 04:24:09,335 then another, and another, and another... 1467 04:24:09,418 --> 04:24:10,961 Yes. 1468 04:24:11,754 --> 04:24:16,508 But to understand the process, one must... 1469 04:24:16,592 --> 04:24:23,641 I repeat: extermination did not take place in the ghetto, not at first. 1470 04:24:23,724 --> 04:24:26,310 Only with the evacuations. 1471 04:24:26,393 --> 04:24:28,395 Otherwise, in the ghetto, we would have... 1472 04:24:28,604 --> 04:24:30,731 Evacuations? 1473 04:24:30,814 --> 04:24:32,983 The evacuations to Treblinka. 1474 04:24:33,067 --> 04:24:37,196 The ghetto could have been wiped out with weapons, 1475 04:24:38,322 --> 04:24:41,659 as it was finally done, after the rebellion. 1476 04:24:41,951 --> 04:24:45,496 After I'd left. But at the start... 1477 04:24:46,330 --> 04:24:48,874 Mr. Lanzmann, this is getting us nowhere. 1478 04:24:50,584 --> 04:24:53,796 We're reaching no new conclusions. 1479 04:24:54,630 --> 04:25:00,261 I don't think we can. 1480 04:25:00,344 --> 04:25:04,390 I didn't know then what I know now. 1481 04:25:06,141 --> 04:25:09,561 You weren't a nonentity. 1482 04:25:10,354 --> 04:25:12,982 - But I was! - You were important. 1483 04:25:14,275 --> 04:25:17,528 - You overestimate my role. - No. 1484 04:25:19,697 --> 04:25:24,910 You were 2nd to the Commissioner of the Warsaw “Jewish district.” 1485 04:25:24,994 --> 04:25:26,704 But I had no power. 1486 04:25:26,787 --> 04:25:28,747 It was something. 1487 04:25:28,831 --> 04:25:33,127 You were part of the vast German power structure. 1488 04:25:33,210 --> 04:25:36,922 Correct. But a small part. 1489 04:25:37,006 --> 04:25:41,760 You overestimate the authority of a deputy of 28 then. 1490 04:25:41,844 --> 04:25:43,971 - You were 30. - 28. 1491 04:25:44,054 --> 04:25:46,348 At 30, you were... 1492 04:25:50,519 --> 04:25:53,731 you were mature. 1493 04:25:53,814 --> 04:25:59,945 Yes, but for a lawyer who got his degree at 27, 1494 04:26:00,029 --> 04:26:01,822 it's just a beginning. 1495 04:26:06,452 --> 04:26:07,953 You had a doctorate. 1496 04:26:08,037 --> 04:26:10,331 The title proves nothing. 1497 04:26:11,373 --> 04:26:13,792 - Did Auerswald have one too? - No. 1498 04:26:13,876 --> 04:26:16,545 But the title's irrelevant. 1499 04:26:16,795 --> 04:26:18,881 Doctor of Law... 1500 04:26:19,590 --> 04:26:22,634 What did you do after the war? 1501 04:26:23,469 --> 04:26:28,766 I was with a mountaineering publishing house. 1502 04:26:28,849 --> 04:26:30,059 That so? 1503 04:26:30,142 --> 04:26:35,230 I wrote and published mountain guidebooks. 1504 04:26:35,856 --> 04:26:38,692 I published a climbers' magazine. 1505 04:26:39,234 --> 04:26:42,279 Is climbing your main interest? 1506 04:26:43,238 --> 04:26:44,698 Yes. 1507 04:26:45,574 --> 04:26:47,493 The mountains, the air... 1508 04:26:47,576 --> 04:26:48,577 Yes. 1509 04:26:48,660 --> 04:26:51,580 The sun, the pure air... 1510 04:26:51,663 --> 04:26:53,749 Not like the ghetto air. 1511 04:27:43,465 --> 04:27:46,969 The words The words that I write to you 1512 04:27:47,428 --> 04:27:50,722 Are not written with ink, but with tears 1513 04:27:50,973 --> 04:27:54,393 The best years are ending now 1514 04:27:54,643 --> 04:27:57,980 Are not written with ink, but with tears 1515 04:27:58,272 --> 04:28:01,733 The best years are ending now 1516 04:28:02,025 --> 04:28:05,112 And are gone, not to return 1517 04:28:05,654 --> 04:28:09,575 It is difficult to fix that which is shattered 1518 04:28:09,825 --> 04:28:14,705 And it is difficult to unite our love 1519 04:28:14,955 --> 04:28:17,666 Oh, show your tears 1520 04:28:17,749 --> 04:28:20,586 The fault is not mine 1521 04:28:20,669 --> 04:28:24,256 Because it must be so 1522 04:28:24,339 --> 04:28:28,469 It must be so It must be so 1523 04:28:28,844 --> 04:28:32,347 We must both separate 1524 04:28:32,639 --> 04:28:36,268 It must be so It must be so 1525 04:28:36,518 --> 04:28:39,646 The love that ends for both of us 1526 04:28:39,897 --> 04:28:44,568 Do you remember when I left you? 1527 04:28:44,902 --> 04:28:48,780 My fate dictated I must leave you 1528 04:28:48,864 --> 04:28:51,241 Because in this way I will never again be bothered 1529 04:28:51,325 --> 04:28:53,410 NEW YORK GERTRUDE SCHNEIDER AND HER MOTHER 1530 04:28:53,494 --> 04:28:56,455 Because it must be so 1531 04:28:56,914 --> 04:29:00,959 LOHAME HAGHETTAOT KIBBUTZ MUSEUM 1532 04:29:01,043 --> 04:29:05,339 GHETTO FIGHTERS' KIBBUTZ, ISRAEL 1533 04:29:05,422 --> 04:29:09,760 The Jewish Combat Organization (J.C.O.) in the Warsaw ghetto 1534 04:29:09,843 --> 04:29:14,139 was officially formed on July 28, 1942. 1535 04:29:14,223 --> 04:29:18,602 After the first mass deportation to Treblinka, 1536 04:29:18,685 --> 04:29:21,980 which was interrupted on September 30, 1537 04:29:22,064 --> 04:29:26,360 some 60,000 Jews remained in the ghetto. 1538 04:29:26,443 --> 04:29:30,822 On January 18, 1943, the deportations were resumed. 1539 04:29:30,906 --> 04:29:34,159 Despite a severe lack of weapons, 1540 04:29:34,243 --> 04:29:38,622 the members of the J.C.O. called for resistance, 1541 04:29:38,705 --> 04:29:43,001 and started fighting, to the Germans' total surprise. 1542 04:29:43,085 --> 04:29:45,337 It lasted 3 days. 1543 04:29:45,420 --> 04:29:48,715 The Nazis withdrew with losses, 1544 04:29:48,799 --> 04:29:53,178 abandoning weapons the Jews grabbed. 1545 04:29:53,262 --> 04:29:56,515 The deportations were stopped. 1546 04:29:56,598 --> 04:29:58,850 The Germans now knew 1547 04:29:58,934 --> 04:30:03,313 they had to fight to conquer the ghetto. 1548 04:30:03,397 --> 04:30:07,693 The battle began on the evening of April 19, 1943, 1549 04:30:07,776 --> 04:30:12,155 the eve of Pessach Passover. 1550 04:30:12,239 --> 04:30:16,660 It had to be a fight to the death. 1551 04:31:17,638 --> 04:31:21,266 SIMHA ROTTEM, known as “Kajik” 1552 04:31:21,350 --> 04:31:24,978 ITZHAK ZUCKERMANN, known as “Antek," 1553 04:31:25,062 --> 04:31:28,523 2nd in command of the J.C.O. 1554 04:31:32,361 --> 04:31:35,489 I began drinking after the war. 1555 04:31:43,872 --> 04:31:46,208 It was very difficult. 1556 04:32:02,516 --> 04:32:05,769 Claude, you asked for my impression. 1557 04:32:07,270 --> 04:32:10,857 If you could lick my heart, 1558 04:32:10,941 --> 04:32:13,443 it would poison you. 1559 04:32:16,738 --> 04:32:20,951 At the request of Mordechai Anielewicz, 1560 04:32:21,243 --> 04:32:24,329 commander-in-chief of the J. C. O. , 1561 04:32:24,621 --> 04:32:29,167 Antek had left the ghetto 6 days before the German attack. 1562 04:32:29,459 --> 04:32:31,503 His mission: 1563 04:32:31,795 --> 04:32:35,924 To ask Polish Resistance leaders to arm the Jews. 1564 04:32:36,258 --> 04:32:38,260 They refused. 1565 04:33:50,916 --> 04:33:56,421 I don't think the human tongue can describe 1566 04:33:56,505 --> 04:33:59,382 the horror we went through in the ghetto. 1567 04:34:01,009 --> 04:34:05,096 In the streets, if you can call them that, 1568 04:34:05,347 --> 04:34:08,308 for nothing was left of the streets, 1569 04:34:08,391 --> 04:34:13,355 we had to step over heaps of corpses. 1570 04:34:13,772 --> 04:34:16,775 There was no room to pass beside them. 1571 04:34:16,858 --> 04:34:20,612 Besides fighting the Germans, we fought hunger 1572 04:34:20,695 --> 04:34:22,864 and thirst. 1573 04:34:22,948 --> 04:34:25,951 We had no contact with the outside world, 1574 04:34:26,034 --> 04:34:30,121 we were completely isolated, cut off from the world. 1575 04:34:45,887 --> 04:34:48,306 We were in such a state 1576 04:34:48,390 --> 04:34:51,643 that we could no longer understand 1577 04:34:51,726 --> 04:34:55,605 the very meaning of why we went on fighting. 1578 04:35:03,405 --> 04:35:07,158 We thought of attempting a breakout 1579 04:35:07,242 --> 04:35:10,996 to the Aryan part of Warsaw, outside the ghetto. 1580 04:35:26,094 --> 04:35:28,346 Just before May 1, 1581 04:35:28,430 --> 04:35:30,891 Sigmund and I were sent 1582 04:35:30,974 --> 04:35:35,896 to try to contact Antek in Aryan Warsaw. 1583 04:35:53,330 --> 04:35:57,792 We found a tunnel under Bonifrateska Street 1584 04:35:57,876 --> 04:36:02,339 that led out into Aryan Warsaw. 1585 04:36:34,746 --> 04:36:36,414 Early in the morning, 1586 04:36:36,498 --> 04:36:41,086 we suddenly emerged into a street in broad daylight. 1587 04:36:49,886 --> 04:36:53,515 Imagine us on that sunny May 1, 1588 04:36:53,807 --> 04:36:58,436 stunned to find ourselves in the street, among normal people. 1589 04:36:58,520 --> 04:37:02,065 We'd come from another planet. 1590 04:37:40,812 --> 04:37:45,567 People immediately jumped on us 1591 04:37:45,650 --> 04:37:48,987 because we certainly looked exhausted, 1592 04:37:49,070 --> 04:37:51,364 skinny, in rags. 1593 04:37:52,407 --> 04:37:57,203 Around the ghetto, there were always suspicious Poles 1594 04:37:57,287 --> 04:37:59,164 who grabbed Jews. 1595 04:38:09,466 --> 04:38:12,594 By a miracle, we escaped them. 1596 04:38:27,442 --> 04:38:30,028 In Aryan Warsaw, 1597 04:38:30,111 --> 04:38:35,492 life went on as naturally and normally as before. 1598 04:38:53,134 --> 04:38:55,428 The cafes operated normally, 1599 04:38:55,512 --> 04:38:58,473 the restaurants, buses, streetcars... 1600 04:38:58,556 --> 04:39:01,309 The movies were open. 1601 04:39:06,856 --> 04:39:11,986 The ghetto was an isolated island amid normal life. 1602 04:39:45,520 --> 04:39:50,859 Our job was to contact Itzhak Zuckermann 1603 04:39:51,442 --> 04:39:54,737 to try to mount a rescue operation, 1604 04:39:54,821 --> 04:39:57,407 to try to save the few fighters 1605 04:39:57,490 --> 04:40:00,535 who might still be alive in the ghetto. 1606 04:40:04,581 --> 04:40:08,710 We managed to contact Zuckermann. 1607 04:40:16,885 --> 04:40:20,555 We found two sewer workers. 1608 04:40:39,824 --> 04:40:41,784 On the night of May 8-9, 1609 04:40:41,868 --> 04:40:45,038 we decided to return to the ghetto 1610 04:40:45,121 --> 04:40:49,584 with another buddy, Riszek, and the 2 sewer workers. 1611 04:40:50,084 --> 04:40:54,422 After the curfew, we entered the sewers. 1612 04:41:07,769 --> 04:41:12,232 We were entirely at the mercy of the two workmen, 1613 04:41:12,315 --> 04:41:16,945 since only they knew the ghetto's underground layout. 1614 04:41:31,334 --> 04:41:35,296 Halfway there, they decided to turn back, 1615 04:41:35,380 --> 04:41:40,093 they tried to drop us, and we had to threaten them with our guns. 1616 04:41:45,974 --> 04:41:50,436 We went on through the sewers, 1617 04:41:59,988 --> 04:42:05,785 until one of the workmen told us we were under the ghetto. 1618 04:42:10,540 --> 04:42:15,461 Riszek guarded them so they couldn't escape. 1619 04:42:16,045 --> 04:42:19,632 MILA 18. J.C.O. BUNKER HEADQUARTERS 1620 04:42:23,136 --> 04:42:26,347 I raised the manhole cover 1621 04:42:26,431 --> 04:42:28,933 to go up into the ghetto. 1622 04:42:49,454 --> 04:42:53,708 At bunker Mila 18, I missed them by a day. 1623 04:43:08,890 --> 04:43:12,560 I had returned the night of May 8-9. 1624 04:43:15,063 --> 04:43:20,777 The Germans found the bunker on the morning of the 8th. 1625 04:43:21,194 --> 04:43:25,865 WARSAW - THE MONUMENT TO THE GHETTO FIGHTERS 1626 04:43:42,173 --> 04:43:46,594 Most of its survivors committed suicide, 1627 04:43:46,677 --> 04:43:49,597 or succumbed to gas in the bunkers. 1628 04:43:50,306 --> 04:43:55,228 THE REPLICA OF THE MONUMENT TO THE GHETTO FIGHTERS 1629 04:43:55,311 --> 04:43:58,231 JERUSALEM 1630 04:44:46,112 --> 04:44:50,450 I went to bunker Franciszkanska 22. 1631 04:44:51,325 --> 04:44:55,413 There was no answer when I yelled the password, 1632 04:44:58,082 --> 04:45:01,169 so I had to go on through the ghetto. 1633 04:45:01,252 --> 04:45:05,423 I suddenly heard a woman calling from the ruins. 1634 04:45:46,422 --> 04:45:50,968 It was darkest night, no lights, you saw nothing. 1635 04:45:51,052 --> 04:45:54,805 All the houses were in ruins, and I heard only one voice. 1636 04:45:54,889 --> 04:45:59,352 I thought some evil spell had been cast on me, 1637 04:45:59,435 --> 04:46:02,188 a woman's voice talking from the rubble. 1638 04:46:02,271 --> 04:46:04,565 I circled the ruins. 1639 04:46:04,649 --> 04:46:06,234 I didn't look at my watch, 1640 04:46:06,317 --> 04:46:10,488 but I must have spent a half hour exploring, 1641 04:46:10,571 --> 04:46:13,824 trying to find the woman whose voice guided me, 1642 04:46:13,908 --> 04:46:16,911 but, unfortunately, I didn't find her. 1643 04:46:19,747 --> 04:46:22,083 Were there fires? 1644 04:46:43,980 --> 04:46:47,525 Strictly speaking, no, for the flames had died down, 1645 04:46:47,608 --> 04:46:49,944 but there was still smoke, 1646 04:46:50,027 --> 04:46:52,405 and that awful smell of charred flesh 1647 04:46:52,488 --> 04:46:56,117 of people who had surely been burned alive. 1648 04:47:32,737 --> 04:47:35,406 I continued on my way, 1649 04:47:35,489 --> 04:47:40,119 going to other bunkers in search of fighting units, 1650 04:47:40,202 --> 04:47:42,496 but it was the same everywhere. 1651 04:47:42,580 --> 04:47:46,292 I'd give the password: “Jan.” 1652 04:47:48,336 --> 04:47:51,005 That's a Polish first name, Jan. 1653 04:47:55,301 --> 04:47:57,887 Right. And I got no answer. 1654 04:47:57,970 --> 04:48:01,599 I went from bunker to bunker, 1655 04:48:01,682 --> 04:48:06,062 and after walking for hours in the ghetto, 1656 04:48:06,145 --> 04:48:09,273 I went back toward the sewers. 1657 04:48:09,357 --> 04:48:11,525 Was he alone then? 1658 04:48:15,279 --> 04:48:17,782 Yes, I was alone all the time. 1659 04:49:13,254 --> 04:49:15,631 Except for that woman's voice, 1660 04:49:15,715 --> 04:49:20,261 and a man I met as I came out of the sewers, 1661 04:49:20,344 --> 04:49:23,556 I was alone throughout my tour of the ghetto. 1662 04:49:23,639 --> 04:49:26,851 Jeg opfyldte ikke en levende sjæl. 1663 04:49:26,934 --> 04:49:29,645 På et tidspunkt, jeg husker 1664 04:49:29,729 --> 04:49:34,066 føler en form for fred, eller sindsro, 1665 04:49:34,150 --> 04:49:37,319 da jeg sagde til mig selv, ”Jeg er den sidste Jøde. 1666 04:49:37,403 --> 04:49:41,449 Jeg vil vente til morgen og for tyskerne.” 124415

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