All language subtitles for Expert Witness S05E01 720p WEB H264-JFF[EZTVx.to]

This time, when a young woman is gunned
down in her home, detectives turn to a

firearms expert to crack the case.

The Scorpion machine pistol would fire
in fully automatic mode between 14 and

cartridges per second.

And will a forensic scientist's high
-risk DNA strategy put the sex attacker

behind bars?

We have to get the material off the tape
-in, and we only had one shot at it.

Welcome to Expert Witness, the series
where we reveal how science helps solve

some of the UK's toughest criminal
investigations.

Liverpool, Merseyside. At around half
past midnight on the 21st of August

Merseyside police are called by
concerned neighbours and race to a

Leinster Road.

Police arrive at Ashley Dale's house.
They

find the front door kicked in and the
light still on.

There are bullet holes everywhere,
shattered kitchen tiles.

And at the back door, they find a woman,
fatally injured.

Lying in the back garden, they find 28
-year -old Ashley Dale. She appears to

have been shot and dies of her injuries
later in hospital.

There is no -one else in the house.

BBC journalist Johnny Humphries was a
crime correspondent for the Liverpool

and was there for every moment of the
trial.

We heard the name of Ashley Dale quite
early on after the news broke that

somebody had been murdered.

She was actually the first woman who was
shot dead in Liverpool in over 17

years, so it was a bit of a shock.

At the time of the incident, mum Julie,
partner Bobby and Ashley's two younger

sisters... were all asleep we were woke
to a knock on on the door come

looked out the window and there was two
clean closed police officers they said

that had been an incident at ashley's
property at her home the police then

revealed that ashley had died fell to
the ground just couldn't believe it was

like someone was just like i was just
looking into someone else's life at that

moment in time they've got

Sorry, these two young girls upstairs,
I'm going to have to just completely

shatter their lives to tell them that
the big sister who they love is just not

here anymore and that was just
horrendous.

Julie gave birth to Ashley when she was
just 16 years old.

As Ashley got older, we did grow up
together.

People used to think we were sisters, we
were literally like best friends.

She was great, she loved life, she was
very glamorous, loved the clothes, loved

shopping, but also loved the home as
well and loved being at home.

She went to university and she did a
degree in environmental health and then

was working as an environmental health
officer with Knowsley Council and she

just had a promotion within her work.

The council leader from Knowsley, where
Ashley worked, paid tribute to what he

described as a rising star within the
council.

Colleagues left flowers on her desk in
tribute to the woman who was killed.

As Merseyside police began a massive
investigation, Ashley's murder received

intense coverage in the press, and the
shocking events of the night were

revealed. Ashley was home alone. She was
on her...

living room sofa watching the
television.

Gunman burst in, fired multiple shots
throughout the house and Ashley was

in the abdomen.

Ashley's car was parked on the street
and the police noticed three of the

on the car were slashed.

Police say it was a targeted attack but
that Ashley was not the intended victim.

It wasn't long before detectives focused
their investigation closer to home. We

started to get...

Rumours coming in about her boyfriend,
the name Lee Harrison, started to

He didn't have any kind of legitimate
job or legitimate income.

He was involved in drugs.

Voice notes recovered from Ashley's
phone revealed that Harrison was

a feud with a second drug dealer, Nile
Barry.

There's this background of escalating
tension and anger between the two men.

Ashley's family had no idea about Lee
Harrison's criminal connections.

Ashley had been with Lee about five
years but we never really knew a great

about him in the beginning and I felt
like she did keep it quite quiet.

Lee Harrison was interviewed by police
about the shooting but claimed he had no

idea why he or Ashley would have been
targeted.

In Liverpool, if you're known to be a
grass or a snitch, then that doesn't go

down very well with, you know, these
types of people who are involved in

criminality and organised crime and
stuff like that. So a big wall of

went up on that side in terms of, like,
Lee and Lee's friends.

How could someone who claimed to love my
daughter so much not speak up or not

want to try and help the investigation?

The police brought gangster Nile Barry
in for questioning.

He was arrested outside of a hotel and
he had a bag of cash, I think it was

around £10 ,000, with him, a big bag of
clothes, and he was clearly trying to

get out of the country.

But he had an alibi for the night of the
murder.

He was in his flat, he was with a couple
of other guys, he was watching boxing

and UFC.

There were CCTV cameras.

covering the front of the entrance, so
they could see he hadn't left the flat

the hours leading up to the shooting. So
they knew he couldn't have been the

gunman, and at that stage they didn't
have anything to keep him in custody.

This was a big setback for the
investigation.

Facing a wall of silence, the crime
scene and forensics were going to be

in solving this case.

So police enlisted the help of forensic
firearms expert Andre Horn.

When I arrived, I did an initial
walkthrough of the scene just to get an

what physical evidence is immediately
apparent.

I could see some forensic markers where
police had already identified some

bullets and cartridge cases that they
had observed.

Andre's first task was to examine the
discharge casings and bullets to

whether there was more than one weapon
used at the scene.

This is a comparison microscope, and it
is something we use to compare the

firing marks on bullets to one another.

We will mount a bullet on the one side,
and then we will look for a significant,

unique mark, and then see if we can find
that same mark on another bullet.

If we find the same marks on the same
ammunition components, we can then come

the conclusion that they had been
discharged in the same firearm.

André was able to identify not just that
the ammunition came from the same

weapon, but the type of weapon used.

Cartridge cases in this case had dual
ejector marks, which is very particular

a specific type of machine pistol called
a Scorpion.

The Scorpion machine pistol is a very
compact weapon, and you get magazines

different cartridge capacities.

It is a very rapid -firing gun. It would
fire in fully automatic mode between

14 and 15 cartridges per second.

Andre hoped that forensic examination of
the bullet casing found at the scene

could help identify Anthony's killer.

When cartridges are loaded into a
firearm, they are handled by a person,

that person could potentially deposit
their DNA on the cartridges.

Meanwhile, detectives analysed the CCTV
outside Niall Barry's flat from the

evening of the murder.

Inside the flat in the hours leading up
to the murder were Niall Barry, Sean

Zeiss, who had a beef with Ashley's
boyfriend as well, James Witham and

Piers, and police were able to record on
CCTV Joseph Piers and James Witham

leaving the flat shortly after 10 o
'clock on the 20th of August.

The footage also showed the two men
heading towards the car and leaving in

direction of Ashley's address.

It was quite a distinctive Hyundai, and
they'd had that on CCTV, going into

Ashley's road and then leaving again
around the time of the shooting.

Messages sent from Ashley to her mum
just before midnight revealed her car

had gone off, helping detectives to
reconstruct the events leading to her

One of Joseph Pears or James Witham
slashed the tyres on the car in an

to lure whoever was in the house
outside.

Investigators' theory was that when that
didn't work, the gunman had burst

through the front door, showering the
inside of the house with bullets.

The Nets was closing in on Pears and
Witham, but they needed to link them

physically to the crime scene.

But then they got the breakthrough they
needed.

DNA found on a bullet casing came back
with a profile.

James Witham had left a piece of DNA on
one of the bullet cases that was found

in Ashley's property.

The evidence was beginning to become
overwhelming.

This is the moment James Witham was
arrested.

He gives a false name but eventually
admits who he is.

Joseph Pears was also arrested.

They were interviewed over the course of
a couple of days.

Both of those men answered no comments
or questions.

Two family liaisons came to our house
and they told us the names, James Witham

and Joseph Piers. We were like, who?

Who are these people?

We were a bit shocked because we didn't
know, we'd never heard of them before.

With Witham and Piers not cooperating,
detectives set about making the case

against them watertight, starting with
the vehicle that was seen on CCTV,

outside Barry's flat, then driving to
and from the scene.

The police were able to recover the car
and it was examined forensically and

swabbed for DNA.

And one significant finding in that was
the DNA of Joseph Pearce on a bottle cap

inside the vehicle.

That linked Joseph Pearce to the car.

The shoe prints would further strengthen
the case against Witham. On the front

door of Ashley's house was a footprint.

The police were able to tie that.

to James Witham. He was seen on CCTV
buying that exact pair of trainers

the day than hours before the shooting.

The footprints on the door, the DNA on
the spent cartridge and DNA found in the

car all pointed to Witham being the
shooter and Piers being the driver.

Confronted by the evidence, Witham
confessed.

but not to murder. He claimed he was
just firing warning shots rather than

targeting Ashley and that her death was
a tragic accident.

Could ballistics expert Andre Horn
disprove Witham's testimony and prove he

intent to kill?

During the autopsy, I found that Ashley
had been shot once and that she had an

entry wound in her abdomen and an exit
wound in her left lower back.

And that was very important for us to
determine where Ashley had been standing

when she was shot.

A bullet with Ashley's DNA was recovered
from a kitchen chair, indicating it had

passed through her body and lodged
there.

The chair was standing adjacent to the
kitchen counter and the bullet lodged

into a wooden support inside the chair.
The bullet impact mark tells us...

in which direction the bullets had been
fired, where they had struck, in other

words, where the gun was pointing at the
moment of discharge.

We know she was in the living room where
she was watching television when the

shooter came through the door.

Ashley made her way to the kitchen where
the fatal bullet was found.

By recreating where Ashley was standing
when she was shot and using a laser to

mimic the bullet's path, Andre could
determine where the shooter had been

located. The image that we see here
would have been the viewpoint of the

as he was looking through this doorway.

We then extrapolated the trajectory
towards where the shooter had been

And we had a tripod and where that
tripod then intersected.

We knew that that was most likely the
position where the shooter had been

standing.

From this, Andre was able to recreate
the events moments prior to Ashley's

death.

The first shots were discharged by the
shooter when he was standing in the

hallway.

He had then progressed further into the
dining room towards the kitchen where

some further shots were fired.

It is at that point that Ashley was
fatally wounded.

Andre's analysis put the lie to Witham's
defence.

He hadn't fired shots randomly. He'd
chased and murdered Ashley as she fled

room.

During the course of our examinations,
it was apparent that the shooter had

following Ashley and that he had pursued
her.

Both Witham and Pears now faced a murder
charge.

But as the long -standing feud was
between Ashley's boyfriend and Niall

police strongly believed he and
associate Sean Zeiss ordered the attack.

And as luck would have it, they were
already in custody for unrelated

That meant that police were able to
analyse data on all four suspects'

There's a flurry of calls before and
after the shooting. There's contact.

before they get there, then afterwards,
with him and Pedro in touch with Niall

Barry and Sean Zeiss.

This pointed to all four being in
constant communication on the night of

murder.

Messages on an encrypted communications
app on Barry's phone would seal their

fate. Police were able to link him to an
EncroChat handle or a username called

Better Trunk, which they showed was...
in contact with other ncrochat users

about firearms about drugs and most
pertinently in this case niall barry had

discussed a scope which is short for a
scorpion submachine gun the exact kind

weapon that was used to kill ashley dale
all four were charged with the murder

of ashley dale and conspiracy to murder
lee harrison ashley's boyfriend her

family arrived at court today at the
start of a trial which is expected to

for two months They all pleaded not
guilty, putting Ashley's family through

full trial.

Seeing them every single day, and then
when they took the stand as well,

listening to the lies, you know, to save
their own skin and what they'd done,

and that was difficult because we all
knew they'd done it. No remorse,

nothing, nothing for us, no remorse for
Ashley, nothing, no respect.

Witham has admitted manslaughter but
denies murder.

He told the jury that when he went into
the house, he didn't see Ashley Dale, he

didn't know that he'd shot at anyone, he
just pulled the trigger and fired a

load of shots and left.

He didn't realise that he'd even hurt
anyone until afterwards.

But it was Andre Horn's firearms
analysis that proved pivotal.

The prosecution asked Mr Horne what he
thought had happened. He said, my

explanation is that she moved towards
her only escape, the rear door, and the

shooter followed the same route and
fired shots in the direction that Ashley

attempting to escape.

Andre Horne's evidence proved that James
Witham had to have chased Ashley Dale

through her house to where she was found
and where she'd been struck.

That showed that he had murderous
intent.

The jury retired for deliberation.

I was really, really anxious.

What's going to happen?

Am I going to cope with it?

After just over nine hours, the jury
returned.

It was a tense moment for everyone.

They came to the verdict that Niall
Barrier had ordered the shooting of

Dale. He was found guilty of murder,
conspiracy to murder and related

Sean Zeiss also found guilty of murder,
conspiracy to murder.

And Witham and Pace were also convicted
of murder as well.

All four suspects received life
sentences between 41 and 47 years before

could even apply for parole.

We were quite shocked but happy, like
really, really happy because they're

going to get out.

And Andre took the stand.

He was able to pinpoint where James
Witham was standing.

It really did help.

Without my evidence, there would
probably have been some doubt in the

minds as to the intentions of the
shooter.

And that is why this case stood out for
me.

I'm not the same person anymore. Like,
that night when Ashley died, I'd say the

old Julie died as well.

Every year, historic cold cases are
solved using new forensic science, but

success is often not straightforward.

In our next case, a forensic scientist
is faced with finding a suspect's DNA

when all the original exhibits have been
destroyed.

Bracknell, Berkshire, 11 September 1986.

A three -year -old girl is playing
outside with a friend when she's

She was lured into a van as she played
with a friend outside a block of flats.

After the attack, she was dumped nearby
and found crying in the street.

This was a

horrific attack on a vulnerable three
-year -old child who was just playing

outside with a friend.

A stranger approached the two, asking
them for help with his car.

Our friend ran off and said she wasn't
allowed to talk to strangers, but

unfortunately the three -year -old did
go with him. He lured her into a camper

van and then he got in the back with
her.

Obviously she thought she was helping
him and he was a nice man, but actually

attacked her, sexually assaulted her in
the back of that camper van.

The man brought her to a local shop,
gave her money to buy sweets and drove

away.

Thames Valley Police immediately
launched an investigation into the

assault. Fibres, hairs and other samples
found on the victim's clothes were sent

for examination, but in 1986, forensic
techniques were limited.

They analysed them as best they could,
but obviously, you know, DNA.

Profiling wasn't a thing back then, so
they kept all of that evidence.

There were witness statements, but they
just hit dead end after dead end after

dead end.

The police made public appeals for
information.

We'd like to hear from people who were
in the area of the Holbeck flat where

this little girl was playing at about
6pm last night.

But the young girl's attacker seems to
have vanished.

And the case went cold for the next 20
years.

Without the scientific breakthroughs
we've had since, they were handicapped

you know, massive disappointment that
one of the most high -profile cases that

Thames Valley Police had at that time,
they couldn't solve.

But police remained determined to catch
the attacker. And in 2008, the major

crime review team reopened the case.

This time with the help of modern
forensics and scientist Andrew Parry. He

specialises in cold cases involving
murder or sexual assault.

And it was about the time that most
police forces were starting to look at

undetected cases.

This was primarily due to the advances
in DNA technology.

So over the years, the technique had
improved and we could get DNA profiles

smaller and smaller samples.

Andrew was given a case file which
included a report written 22 years

by the original forensic scientist.

It offered a possible line of inquiry.

He had noted that there was body fluid
staining on the undergarment worn by the

victim.

Andrew hoped to retrieve a DNA sample
from the clothing, something impossible

back in 1986.

But when he contacted the National
Archive to retrieve the evidence...

bad news.

There were no actual exhibits retained
from the victim. It was not unusual for

items to be returned to the victim or to
be destroyed.

However, one single piece of adhesive
tape used to lift trace evidence from

victim's clothes had survived.

This is a typical taping. It's a piece
of... sellotape that stuck down onto a

clear acetate sheet.

We had to fully concentrate on that
sample and try to get a DNA profile from

that. And if it didn't work, we had no
other samples to go to.

The taping now became their only hope.

This is not the way we would normally
recover biological material from an

We would normally cut out the stain and
extract that for DNA. So this makes it

quite... difficult to get a DNA profile
from the sample.

In order to recover the material that
we're interested in, we cut up the tape

into small pieces in order to remove any
cellular material that may be present

on the adhesive side of the tape.

It's likely that only a small amount of
material would be transferred to the

taping. We have to get the material off
the taping, and we only add one shot at

it. We only add one taping, and that's
all we could analyse in this case.

The next step was to extract any
microscopic traces of biological

We take a moist cotton swab and rub that
against the surface of the tape and the

acetate.

So we're trying to recover as much
material as we can from the adhesive

the tape. That sample is then processed
using DNA profiling analysis.

Incredibly, Andrew successfully
extracted a tiny amount of DNA.

So what we obtained from...

This sample was a mixed DNA profile.

There was a high -level male DNA
component and there was also some lower

DNA. I requested that we get a DNA
profile from the victim herself. We

it to the result and found that she was
present at a low level. So we were now

left with this prominent male DNA
profile in the sample.

This was the first major breakthrough in
two decades.

This was very exciting to get such a
strong male profile in the sample

this potentially could lead us to
identifying the offender.

By now, in 2008, a huge national
database had been established holding

of DNA profiles.

They knew there were likely to be other
victims and if other victims had come

forward then they may be able to get a
hit on the DNA database. We looked at

this profile against the national DNA
database but we got no matches.

This could indicate that he has not been
arrested in relation to any crime, or

if he was involved in any crime, then no
DNA profile was obtained.

The attacker was still evading justice.

But with his profile now on the national
database, detectives were confident he

would one day be caught.

We knew that the DNA profile would sit
there, waiting, and in the event that

that offender is arrested.

or involved in any other crime, it's
likely that a sample will be taken from

him. They ran the DNA through every
single year. No match, no match, no

match, no match.

Until, ping, the email into the inbox,
bingo.

The cold case team were, they couldn't
believe it.

Finally, they got a name.

Robert Frid lived in Farnborough,
Hampshire.

In September 2021, aged 76, he had been
sentenced to 12 years in prison

for a separate case of sexual offences
against children.

His DNA was taken and uploaded into the
police database.

That now clearly linked him to the 1986
attack in Bracknell.

The DNA evidence was in the order of a
billion times more likely if the DNA

originated from Robert Frid rather than
if it had come from... Some other

unknown person.

Frid was in jail when he was interviewed
by the Thames Valley Cold Case Team.

Did you have any connections to Brett
Norton?

No comments.

He refused to cooperate, but the DNA
evidence against him was solid.

And at Red and Crown Court in January
2023, he pleaded guilty to the kidnap

sexual assault of the girl in 1986.

A serial paedophile has been sentenced
to another ten years in prison for

kidnapping a three -year -old girl in
Berkshire.

After Fred's conviction, Nicky
interviewed the victim as an adult.

The memories from inside the van, it's
as if I'm watching it happen to someone

else. A child's memory should be happy
ones and for her, she's just got this

vivid video playing in her head.

Every parent's worst nightmare.

The only reason that he's been brought
to justice and convicted was because

somebody spoke out.

Therefore, he was arrested, he was
charged.

His DNA was then in the database and it
matched the crime from 36 years ago.

It's very satisfying to eventually get a
match to the DNA profile to help

resolve the case, solve it for the
police and solve it for the victim and

family.

In both of these cases, the turning
point came from expert investigation.

When the stakes are high, it's science
and expertise that brings the truth into

focus and ultimately helps deliver
justice for the victims.