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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:22,041 --> 00:00:28,249 In May, 2005, the exhibit "Rodin in Chile" took place. 2 00:00:28,250 --> 00:00:34,417 It was the first time the sculptor's work came to the country. 3 00:00:46,375 --> 00:00:48,374 We had Rodin in Chile, 4 00:00:48,375 --> 00:00:51,791 we had people happy seeing his exhibit. 5 00:00:51,792 --> 00:00:54,417 Thus it was deeply satisfying. 6 00:00:57,500 --> 00:01:00,333 That lasted until one day at 5 PM. 7 00:01:02,750 --> 00:01:04,792 What happened that day at 5 PM? 8 00:01:05,333 --> 00:01:08,082 They called me from the Fine Arts Museum, 9 00:01:08,083 --> 00:01:10,125 to tell me that... 10 00:01:10,542 --> 00:01:13,125 There were a lot of journalists who wanted to talk to me. 11 00:01:15,917 --> 00:01:18,416 And I asked, "Why so much interest?" 12 00:01:18,417 --> 00:01:20,499 and only in that moment 13 00:01:20,500 --> 00:01:22,041 did I realize what had happened. 14 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,582 Well, you'd get to the museum, 15 00:01:29,583 --> 00:01:32,208 on time, I started at 9. 16 00:01:33,917 --> 00:01:35,833 I got there, got ready. 17 00:01:35,834 --> 00:01:38,207 Normally we work in suits, 18 00:01:38,208 --> 00:01:40,289 "suit and tie" so to speak. 19 00:01:40,291 --> 00:01:45,541 I always dress the same so I don't usually have to change a lot, 20 00:01:45,542 --> 00:01:49,164 but to make sure my shoes and everything are impeccable, 21 00:01:49,166 --> 00:01:53,457 and the first thing you'd do is go to the entrance, 22 00:01:53,458 --> 00:01:56,082 and the other makes the rounds. 23 00:01:56,083 --> 00:01:58,917 That's more or less the procedure, so... 24 00:01:59,667 --> 00:02:01,250 It was my turn to make the rounds... 25 00:02:02,667 --> 00:02:03,875 ...that day. 26 00:02:12,542 --> 00:02:17,374 I checked the halls, and obviously I went to the Rodin exhibit, 27 00:02:17,375 --> 00:02:20,917 because that was the most important at the time. 28 00:02:29,208 --> 00:02:33,083 I noticed right away that a sculpture was missing. 29 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:37,624 To me, it was like, "W-What happened here?" 30 00:02:37,625 --> 00:02:40,416 I never imagined it had been stolen, 31 00:02:40,417 --> 00:02:43,542 instead you think, ah, it was removed by someone... 32 00:02:44,125 --> 00:02:45,624 ...from the museum, 33 00:02:45,625 --> 00:02:47,707 from conservation, 34 00:02:47,708 --> 00:02:49,708 some kind of transfer, who knows. 35 00:02:50,291 --> 00:02:52,165 –Around 11 AM, 36 00:02:52,166 --> 00:02:54,999 A guard approached me and asked me to... 37 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,499 to accompany him, 38 00:02:56,500 --> 00:02:59,291 because they want to confirm something. 39 00:03:04,125 --> 00:03:07,083 And when I saw the empty podium, 40 00:03:08,750 --> 00:03:11,875 in the Matta Gallery, that was, to me... 41 00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:17,582 I think among the emotions I've experienced in the museum, 42 00:03:17,583 --> 00:03:19,125 without a doubt, this was the most intense. 43 00:03:23,708 --> 00:03:26,791 Because the image is so tremendous, 44 00:03:26,792 --> 00:03:28,833 that emptiness is so present, 45 00:03:28,834 --> 00:03:32,291 the absence, that my mind really went blank. 46 00:03:51,917 --> 00:03:54,582 I was in the south, in Puerto Varas at the time. 47 00:03:54,583 --> 00:03:58,250 I was representing the museum in an art competition, 48 00:03:59,250 --> 00:04:03,916 when they managed to reach me, which was very difficult 49 00:04:03,917 --> 00:04:07,666 because I didn't use a cell phone at that time, 50 00:04:07,667 --> 00:04:10,792 I don't use one now, either, nor do I plan on using one. 51 00:04:13,875 --> 00:04:16,874 One of the people who came with me in that vehicle, a van, 52 00:04:16,875 --> 00:04:21,249 had a cell phone, so she told me, "The Museum is calling you," 53 00:04:21,250 --> 00:04:24,291 and so I took the... cell phone, 54 00:04:25,041 --> 00:04:26,374 and wham! 55 00:04:26,375 --> 00:04:28,457 They said to me, 56 00:04:29,834 --> 00:04:30,542 violently and brutally, 57 00:04:30,543 --> 00:04:33,207 a Rodin was stolen. 58 00:04:33,207 --> 00:04:36,125 In that moment, the first thing that occurred to me, 59 00:04:36,667 --> 00:04:39,582 was to call the Minister of Education to let him know, 60 00:04:39,582 --> 00:04:42,290 so that he wouldn't find out like I did. 61 00:04:42,291 --> 00:04:44,792 The Minister of Education at the time was Sergio Bitar. 62 00:04:44,917 --> 00:04:47,124 ...And this was a call I received in my office, 63 00:04:47,125 --> 00:04:49,207 it must've been from Clara Budnik, 64 00:04:49,207 --> 00:04:51,082 telling me, "This is what happened." 65 00:04:51,082 --> 00:04:52,290 I was alarmed because 66 00:04:52,291 --> 00:04:55,832 the negative political implications for Chile were huge. 67 00:04:55,834 --> 00:04:58,416 "In a Rodin exhibit they stole a piece in Chile". 68 00:04:58,417 --> 00:05:02,124 You'd imagine, after that, nobody'd want to exhibit in Chile. 69 00:05:02,125 --> 00:05:05,082 When an event like that happens to you, 70 00:05:05,083 --> 00:05:07,999 your first obligation is 71 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,040 to call the lender. 72 00:05:10,041 --> 00:05:13,416 Alejandro and I called the Rodin Museum, 73 00:05:13,417 --> 00:05:19,207 I remember I called when we could, maybe 8 AM, 7 AM... 74 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:25,582 and I said, "Well, a sculpture has been stolen." 75 00:05:25,582 --> 00:05:26,999 On the other end, of course, "OHHH!" 76 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,166 A howl, French-style... 77 00:05:32,667 --> 00:05:36,624 In that time I was the chief of the brigade 78 00:05:36,625 --> 00:05:38,166 for the environment and cultural heritage 79 00:05:39,291 --> 00:05:42,832 I received an order from District Attorney Baytelman 80 00:05:42,834 --> 00:05:45,082 that we had to take on the investigation 81 00:05:45,082 --> 00:05:46,832 into the theft of a sculpture, 82 00:05:46,834 --> 00:05:49,707 which had occurred at the Fine Arts Museum. 83 00:05:53,542 --> 00:05:55,207 The first thing we found out, 84 00:05:55,207 --> 00:05:58,791 in response to the first question you ask yourself, 85 00:05:58,792 --> 00:05:59,125 it's common sense, 86 00:05:59,126 --> 00:06:03,707 you don't have to be D.A. to do it, to ask... 87 00:06:03,708 --> 00:06:05,291 "What about the security cameras?" 88 00:06:06,375 --> 00:06:09,916 The first thing we confirmed is that, 89 00:06:09,917 --> 00:06:12,667 the light that was supposed to be on, 90 00:06:13,667 --> 00:06:16,290 was off. And so... 91 00:06:16,291 --> 00:06:20,624 We had a camera in silence and black 92 00:06:20,625 --> 00:06:21,291 from the Matta Gallery. 93 00:06:32,500 --> 00:06:34,624 It's not as if the lights had failed. 94 00:06:34,625 --> 00:06:36,332 For economic reasons, 95 00:06:36,332 --> 00:06:38,582 the museum... 96 00:06:38,582 --> 00:06:39,874 shut them off, 97 00:06:39,875 --> 00:06:42,707 and the thing is, the cameras there... 98 00:06:42,707 --> 00:06:44,667 aren't infrared. 99 00:06:46,542 --> 00:06:48,165 Here you're seeing the pedestal 100 00:06:48,166 --> 00:06:50,082 where the sculpture was. 101 00:06:51,207 --> 00:06:53,834 that one looks like a hair. 102 00:06:58,207 --> 00:07:02,374 Unfortunately, for the investigation, nothing. 103 00:07:02,375 --> 00:07:04,791 It wasn't any good because... 104 00:07:04,792 --> 00:07:06,874 there were no witnesses, 105 00:07:06,875 --> 00:07:08,457 no one saw anything... 106 00:07:08,458 --> 00:07:11,374 What would've been the most important, the cameras, didn't work, 107 00:07:11,375 --> 00:07:13,499 that would've told us everything. 108 00:07:13,500 --> 00:07:15,541 At first we had no idea how, 109 00:07:15,542 --> 00:07:18,874 we thought it was an international ring, 110 00:07:18,875 --> 00:07:20,541 that they'd go to steal it, 111 00:07:20,542 --> 00:07:22,207 take them out of the country, 112 00:07:22,207 --> 00:07:23,916 store them away for years, 113 00:07:23,917 --> 00:07:25,707 and then it'd be up for sale, 114 00:07:25,707 --> 00:07:28,207 or it'd ends, as with many of these robberies, 115 00:07:28,207 --> 00:07:30,332 no longer in a museum, but in some rich guy's house, 116 00:07:30,332 --> 00:07:32,542 who'd have it there for his eyes only. 117 00:07:46,457 --> 00:07:47,582 How are you? Good afternoon. 118 00:07:47,582 --> 00:07:52,416 Breaking news coming from the Museum of Fine Arts, Santiago, 119 00:07:52,417 --> 00:07:54,916 where we're told of the theft 120 00:07:54,917 --> 00:07:57,124 of a valuable piece by French sculptor Auguste Rodin. 121 00:07:57,125 --> 00:08:00,541 Live from the center of the capital, 122 00:08:00,542 --> 00:08:01,874 journalist Alejandro Vega. 123 00:08:01,875 --> 00:08:04,625 Alejandro, do we know what piece has been stolen? 124 00:08:05,834 --> 00:08:06,708 No, Consuelo, good afternoon. 125 00:08:06,709 --> 00:08:08,332 We still don't know what piece, 126 00:08:08,333 --> 00:08:11,082 it was mentioned that it was possibly 127 00:08:11,083 --> 00:08:13,874 "The Kiss" by Rodin, the French sculptor, 128 00:08:13,875 --> 00:08:16,791 however, the only information we know so far 129 00:08:16,792 --> 00:08:19,749 is that it's a piece worth 500,000 Euros 130 00:08:19,750 --> 00:08:21,874 Approximately 700,000 Euros 131 00:08:21,875 --> 00:08:22,834 80,000 Euros 132 00:08:22,834 --> 00:08:23,166 4,000 Dollars 133 00:08:23,167 --> 00:08:24,457 1.000.000 dollars 134 00:08:25,332 --> 00:08:32,540 Today, such important works of art are stolen, 135 00:08:32,542 --> 00:08:34,164 that it's one of the biggest forms of international crime. 136 00:08:34,165 --> 00:08:37,915 that it's one of the biggest forms of international crime. 137 00:08:37,917 --> 00:08:43,332 It is classified in 4th or 5th place after the trafficking of cocaine, heroin, weapons... 138 00:08:44,792 --> 00:08:46,290 cybercrime, etc. 139 00:08:46,375 --> 00:08:50,790 But I think the question is... 140 00:08:50,792 --> 00:08:52,790 deeper than that. 141 00:08:52,792 --> 00:08:54,790 Because, really... 142 00:08:54,792 --> 00:08:57,833 art isn't just any object. 143 00:08:57,834 --> 00:09:02,082 Art is a sacred object, always, 144 00:09:02,083 --> 00:09:07,749 and this dimension of the sacred in art can't be ignored. 145 00:09:07,750 --> 00:09:11,624 You know that one of the most important moments in the fame of the Mona Lisa 146 00:09:11,625 --> 00:09:13,040 was when it was stolen, right before the world war 147 00:09:13,041 --> 00:09:14,165 That is, in Rodin's day, 148 00:09:14,166 --> 00:09:17,917 an Italian stole the Mona Lisa. 149 00:09:25,750 --> 00:09:27,707 The theft was discovered by a painter 150 00:09:27,708 --> 00:09:31,332 a copyist who had gone to the Louvre to reproduce the piece, 151 00:09:31,333 --> 00:09:34,417 who noticed that the painting wasn't there. 152 00:09:39,542 --> 00:09:42,375 He went to ask the guards and curators, 153 00:09:43,208 --> 00:09:46,290 and at the end of the day there was enough evidence 154 00:09:47,333 --> 00:09:49,583 that the Mona Lisa... 155 00:09:50,250 --> 00:09:51,050 had disappeared. 156 00:10:07,041 --> 00:10:09,374 The Mona Lisa had disappeared for 3 years 157 00:10:09,375 --> 00:10:13,332 But actually the painting was found because the thief 158 00:10:13,333 --> 00:10:16,500 tried to sell it to an antique dealer in Florence 159 00:10:17,917 --> 00:10:20,458 So that phenomenon was very important 160 00:10:21,375 --> 00:10:23,374 within the history of the Louvre 161 00:10:23,375 --> 00:10:25,332 and even in art history at the beginning of the 20th century 162 00:10:25,333 --> 00:10:26,250 And... 163 00:10:26,251 --> 00:10:30,124 Something that makes me relate 164 00:10:30,125 --> 00:10:34,125 the theft of the Rodin in Chile with that of the Mona Lisa, 165 00:10:34,583 --> 00:10:39,542 is the fact that it was immediately assumed that... 166 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,874 that the thefts... 167 00:10:42,875 --> 00:10:44,040 could have been carried out by artists. 168 00:10:47,708 --> 00:10:52,582 In 2005, I was working for an exhibit in a museum, 169 00:10:52,583 --> 00:10:54,499 of which the theme was 170 00:10:54,500 --> 00:10:58,333 interpretations of the Temptations of Saint Anthony. 171 00:10:58,583 --> 00:11:00,249 The representation of Saint Anthony 172 00:11:00,250 --> 00:11:03,875 within the iconography of... Christianity, 173 00:11:04,750 --> 00:11:09,582 gives rise to monstrous representations. 174 00:11:09,583 --> 00:11:13,375 But the theme interested me for visual reasons. 175 00:11:20,667 --> 00:11:24,916 Guillermo Frommer's exhibit opened in the museum, 176 00:11:24,917 --> 00:11:25,208 in the Chile Gallery. 177 00:11:25,209 --> 00:11:29,749 Thus, Rodin was in the Matta Gallery. 178 00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:31,999 and Guillermo Frommer was in the Chile Gallery, 179 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,915 and the public that visited the opening 180 00:11:35,917 --> 00:11:39,833 was fundamentally the public linked to the academic field 181 00:11:39,834 --> 00:11:41,374 of Guillermo Frommer, so, 182 00:11:41,375 --> 00:11:45,790 they were students from the art school at Arcis University. 183 00:11:45,792 --> 00:11:47,624 I was next to Ramón, 184 00:11:47,625 --> 00:11:49,624 and I saw this crowd of people, 185 00:11:49,625 --> 00:11:52,040 and like, I almost took off running. 186 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,290 There were a lot of people, a lot of people. 187 00:11:55,290 --> 00:11:58,665 And in that sense I was very happy... 188 00:11:58,667 --> 00:12:03,917 with the attendance on that day of the opening 189 00:12:08,125 --> 00:12:10,374 We took the liberty to go home, 190 00:12:10,375 --> 00:12:14,542 the night guard had already arrived, so... 191 00:12:15,583 --> 00:12:17,416 all clear, nothing new, 192 00:12:17,417 --> 00:12:20,834 back home until the next day. 193 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,040 And the next day... 194 00:12:23,041 --> 00:12:26,625 Unfortunately, we came across quite the surprise. 195 00:12:27,542 --> 00:12:29,999 –Right, some media outlets had come out with this story 196 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,833 that I was a possible suspect. 197 00:12:32,834 --> 00:12:35,332 That is, that I had set all this up, 198 00:12:35,333 --> 00:12:37,417 to steal the sculpture myself. 199 00:12:38,750 --> 00:12:42,207 The event was held by a university after the exhibit was open 200 00:12:42,208 --> 00:12:46,457 so... it was attended by students of that university, 201 00:12:46,458 --> 00:12:47,665 and guests of the university. 202 00:12:47,667 --> 00:12:49,040 –The investigation continues. 203 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:50,915 Until when? 204 00:12:50,917 --> 00:12:53,583 Until we know how the piece left the museum. 205 00:12:55,708 --> 00:12:59,500 I remember the moment perfectly. 206 00:13:00,083 --> 00:13:04,833 I found it an infinite act of "punga"-ness [trashy, classless]. 207 00:13:04,834 --> 00:13:06,207 I mean, that word exists in Chile 208 00:13:06,208 --> 00:13:09,916 and you have to use it. The word "punga". 209 00:13:09,917 --> 00:13:11,749 I mean, for someone to rob a sculpture– 210 00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:15,666 For the first time, they lend us this tremendous exhibit, 211 00:13:15,667 --> 00:13:18,207 and someone comes and does something "punga", you know? 212 00:13:18,208 --> 00:13:20,417 They steal it. That's "punga". 213 00:13:25,291 --> 00:13:28,416 It got to the point where I was so overwhelmed, 214 00:13:28,417 --> 00:13:31,749 and that everything was so absurd, 215 00:13:31,750 --> 00:13:33,499 the dialogues, the theories, 216 00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:35,165 because everyone starts to think, 217 00:13:35,165 --> 00:13:37,582 "Who stole it, who didn't steal it, in what situation," 218 00:13:37,583 --> 00:13:39,165 "under what circumstances..." 219 00:13:39,165 --> 00:13:41,290 so what I did at that point was, 220 00:13:41,290 --> 00:13:43,165 I went for a walk. 221 00:13:43,165 --> 00:13:44,582 I walked and walked and walked, 222 00:13:44,583 --> 00:13:46,665 and I went to Forest Park, 223 00:13:46,667 --> 00:13:47,290 and walked all around it, 224 00:13:47,292 --> 00:13:49,290 at a fast pace, 225 00:13:50,083 --> 00:13:53,083 rethinking everything that had happened, 226 00:13:53,458 --> 00:13:57,290 to see how I could re-approach the situation. 227 00:14:00,500 --> 00:14:01,999 And where did you go that day, 228 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:03,207 when you found out about the theft? 229 00:14:03,208 --> 00:14:04,416 What did you do that day? 230 00:14:04,417 --> 00:14:08,582 In the car, in the unlikeliest neighborhoods of Santiago, 231 00:14:08,583 --> 00:14:10,332 neighborhoods I'd never been to, 232 00:14:10,333 --> 00:14:11,791 one, because I'm a foreigner, 233 00:14:11,792 --> 00:14:14,165 so I'd never been in those neighborhoods. 234 00:14:14,166 --> 00:14:16,040 We were in the car, 235 00:14:16,041 --> 00:14:18,791 each with our cell phones, 236 00:14:18,792 --> 00:14:20,707 trying to figure out what was happening. 237 00:14:20,708 --> 00:14:22,082 In a way you were looking for the sculpture. 238 00:14:22,083 --> 00:14:24,165 Well, it was a way to do something, 239 00:14:24,166 --> 00:14:27,082 to react, to not sit around doing nothing. 240 00:14:27,083 --> 00:14:28,249 I mean... 241 00:14:28,250 --> 00:14:30,332 We were looking for it, yeah. 242 00:14:30,333 --> 00:14:32,000 Ridiculous, but, that's what it was. 243 00:14:55,333 --> 00:14:58,749 Jorge Ramirez confirmed the name of the stolen sculpture, 244 00:14:58,750 --> 00:15:00,791 which was still undisclosed– 245 00:15:00,792 --> 00:15:03,375 –None other than the Torso of Adele– 246 00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:21,541 "Isn't it marvelous?" said Rodin, 247 00:15:21,542 --> 00:15:24,457 "Accept that you didn't expect to see so much detail, 248 00:15:24,458 --> 00:15:29,332 admire the infinite undulations of the curvature, 249 00:15:29,333 --> 00:15:32,332 that unites the groin with the thigh, 250 00:15:32,333 --> 00:15:36,749 savor all of the voluptuous curves of the hip, 251 00:15:36,750 --> 00:15:39,124 and now there, on the back, 252 00:15:39,125 --> 00:15:42,124 all of those adorable dumples. 253 00:15:42,125 --> 00:15:44,250 It's real flesh, 254 00:15:45,250 --> 00:15:49,374 seeming abundant in kisses and caresses." 255 00:15:49,375 --> 00:15:56,250 It's almost unthinkable not to invoke Rodin's love of women. 256 00:15:57,083 --> 00:16:03,124 It was of public notoriety, there were press statements, 257 00:16:03,125 --> 00:16:07,541 caricatures that would make him out to be... sex-crazed, 258 00:16:07,542 --> 00:16:09,666 erotic in terms of the time period, 259 00:16:09,667 --> 00:16:12,707 incapable of seeing a beautiful woman 260 00:16:12,708 --> 00:16:13,291 without throwing himself on top of her. 261 00:16:15,917 --> 00:16:18,749 the text that we just read... 262 00:16:18,750 --> 00:16:20,542 the words of Rodin on the Torso of Adele. 263 00:16:20,667 --> 00:16:26,874 "It's real flesh" is saying that, surely, he brings his work far 264 00:16:26,875 --> 00:16:30,541 from the forms, because he feels the same love 265 00:16:30,542 --> 00:16:32,875 for the scultpure as for women. 266 00:16:51,165 --> 00:16:52,875 Over here! over here! 267 00:16:58,165 --> 00:17:00,124 Can you turn it around so we can see it? 268 00:17:00,125 --> 00:17:01,290 –Sure. 269 00:17:01,291 --> 00:17:03,457 Wait a second. Wait a second. 270 00:17:03,458 --> 00:17:04,083 There? 271 00:17:05,333 --> 00:17:06,165 There? 272 00:17:08,875 --> 00:17:12,124 Today, a young man showed up, 273 00:17:12,125 --> 00:17:13,790 a university student, 274 00:17:13,791 --> 00:17:19,124 who, this morning, was walking through Forest Park, 275 00:17:19,125 --> 00:17:25,915 and at about 500 meters from the main entrance to the Museum, 276 00:17:25,916 --> 00:17:28,124 he found this piece wrapped in nylon and cardboard. 277 00:17:28,125 --> 00:17:31,791 It caught his eye, then he saw that there was metal, 278 00:17:31,792 --> 00:17:33,250 he picked it up and brought it home. 279 00:17:34,041 --> 00:17:37,165 –I remember I appeared, there were journalists, 280 00:17:37,166 --> 00:17:38,874 and I forgot the place was crowded 281 00:17:38,875 --> 00:17:41,165 I raised my arm, I said it reappeared, and I was happy. 282 00:17:41,166 --> 00:17:44,374 Then I started thinking, what would happen? I mean... 283 00:17:44,375 --> 00:17:46,332 It wasn't there, it was in the police station, 284 00:17:46,333 --> 00:17:48,290 It had to be brought, there was the D.A., 285 00:17:48,291 --> 00:17:50,165 but at that moment, well... 286 00:17:50,166 --> 00:17:53,708 Phew. It's over, we have it. 287 00:17:53,792 --> 00:17:54,792 It was found! 288 00:17:54,792 --> 00:17:55,708 How?? 289 00:17:55,709 --> 00:17:58,583 The police found it in a bush. 290 00:17:59,583 --> 00:18:00,125 A bush? 291 00:18:00,126 --> 00:18:05,457 But if it was to steal it, I thought, to sell it internationally, 292 00:18:05,458 --> 00:18:06,291 to make a ton of money, 293 00:18:06,292 --> 00:18:12,624 to find it in a bush near the Museum in Forest Park, 294 00:18:12,625 --> 00:18:13,166 very strange. 295 00:18:14,750 --> 00:18:17,207 We received word from D.A. Baytelman 296 00:18:17,208 --> 00:18:20,375 that the statue had appeared in the southern zone... 297 00:18:20,667 --> 00:18:23,707 I was in the car and Baytelman called, 298 00:18:23,708 --> 00:18:27,165 saying that we had to go there because they'd found it, so... 299 00:18:27,166 --> 00:18:29,207 we were relieved, 300 00:18:29,208 --> 00:18:30,332 but, 301 00:18:30,333 --> 00:18:34,040 not entirely, because we hadn't seen the piece, 302 00:18:34,041 --> 00:18:36,625 so we didn't know what state of conservation it was in. 303 00:18:38,125 --> 00:18:39,624 Go slow, go slow. 304 00:18:39,625 --> 00:18:42,874 As you could imagine, 305 00:18:42,875 --> 00:18:44,582 When I got out of the PDI car, 306 00:18:44,583 --> 00:18:47,165 the only thing going through my head was, 307 00:18:47,166 --> 00:18:48,707 "I'm going to slip!" 308 00:18:48,708 --> 00:18:50,124 and the next day's headlines, 309 00:18:50,125 --> 00:18:54,749 "Prosecutor recovers and destroys, 310 00:18:54,750 --> 00:18:56,499 due to clumsiness and lack of motor skills, 311 00:18:56,500 --> 00:18:58,875 The Torso of Adèle." 312 00:19:12,583 --> 00:19:14,249 I was looking at it, and I couldn't believe it. 313 00:19:14,250 --> 00:19:17,624 I look at it as if, I don't know, 314 00:19:17,625 --> 00:19:21,791 a child you'd lost in the street and then you find him. 315 00:19:21,792 --> 00:19:25,541 So I was quite tired, and... 316 00:19:25,542 --> 00:19:29,040 I still didn't understand what was happening. 317 00:19:29,041 --> 00:19:32,374 "Discarded in a Park" Stolen Rodin piece reappears 318 00:19:32,375 --> 00:19:35,290 Strange robbery 319 00:19:35,291 --> 00:19:41,416 Here's the declaration delivered by... Luis Emilio Onfray, 320 00:19:41,417 --> 00:19:43,917 At the... police station where he returned the piece. 321 00:19:44,667 --> 00:19:49,124 "That today at 9:30 AM approximately, 322 00:19:49,125 --> 00:19:54,207 while taking a walk in Forest Park in Santiago, 323 00:19:54,208 --> 00:19:56,666 taking photos he says, specifically, 324 00:19:56,667 --> 00:20:00,499 that moment he noticed that, in a patch, 325 00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:02,416 there were some nylons, 326 00:20:02,417 --> 00:20:03,999 and in the middle of them was a sculpture, 327 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,624 which I picked up and wrapped in my sweatshirt, 328 00:20:07,625 --> 00:20:08,041 and then put away in my bag," 329 00:20:08,042 --> 00:20:09,500 reads the declaration. 330 00:20:10,417 --> 00:20:12,332 It was an improbable version, I'd say. 331 00:20:12,333 --> 00:20:14,083 Which was a good thing. 332 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,542 A weak version of the facts often offers a strong suspect. 333 00:20:22,083 --> 00:20:26,999 The two of us entered the office where the suspect was, 334 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,917 and he looked very nervous. 335 00:20:31,667 --> 00:20:33,291 That was my first impression of him. 336 00:20:36,500 --> 00:20:39,000 During that conversation I... 337 00:20:39,458 --> 00:20:43,541 I told him why I think he was lying... 338 00:20:43,542 --> 00:20:47,666 because if he is an art student, who has been studying for 3 years, 339 00:20:47,667 --> 00:20:50,207 and who also attended Rodin's exhibition that night, 340 00:20:50,208 --> 00:20:53,332 He could not pretend he did not know what it was 341 00:20:53,333 --> 00:20:55,291 In other words, he always knew what he had in his hands 342 00:20:56,250 --> 00:21:00,833 So... that's when he begins to contradict himself, 343 00:21:00,834 --> 00:21:02,874 and starts to feel like... 344 00:21:02,875 --> 00:21:03,875 Like he's trapped on his lie. 345 00:21:10,208 --> 00:21:11,582 –When we got there, 346 00:21:11,583 --> 00:21:13,374 Luis Onfray was... 347 00:21:13,375 --> 00:21:15,375 In a manner of speaking, the hero of the day. 348 00:21:18,875 --> 00:21:21,666 When we left, 349 00:21:21,667 --> 00:21:24,374 what we had was a confessed accused. 350 00:21:24,375 --> 00:21:25,791 University student 351 00:21:25,792 --> 00:21:27,833 confessed 352 00:21:27,834 --> 00:21:29,000 theft 353 00:21:37,834 --> 00:21:40,667 Ok, Emilio, we are shooting. 354 00:21:41,041 --> 00:21:44,374 I´m ready to roll 355 00:21:44,375 --> 00:21:47,208 I have to stare at you or the camera? 356 00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:52,040 I'm in the same clothes as yesterday. 357 00:21:52,041 --> 00:21:54,124 Sorry, man. 358 00:21:54,125 --> 00:21:56,124 –Try not to put your hand there, the mic— 359 00:21:56,125 --> 00:21:59,791 –Ah, alright. Got it, man. 360 00:21:59,792 --> 00:22:01,875 I won't touch the shirt again. 361 00:22:03,166 --> 00:22:05,499 A very... special young man. 362 00:22:05,500 --> 00:22:09,541 I mean, he wasn't... a university student yes, 363 00:22:09,542 --> 00:22:12,541 but he was quite outside 364 00:22:12,542 --> 00:22:14,792 of what's considered a normal student. 365 00:22:37,875 --> 00:22:40,582 If you tell me how old is Luis Emilio, then I'll tell you "that many years" 366 00:22:40,583 --> 00:22:42,541 that means I know him from his whole life 367 00:22:42,542 --> 00:22:46,542 because his family is practically my second family 368 00:22:52,417 --> 00:22:54,000 Do you wanna hit him, too? 369 00:22:54,417 --> 00:22:56,290 Just hit me at once. 370 00:22:56,291 --> 00:22:58,416 Look, look, it doesn't hurt him. Watch– 371 00:22:58,417 --> 00:23:00,124 A woman hasn't hit me yet. 372 00:23:00,125 --> 00:23:02,208 1, 2, 3 373 00:23:12,834 --> 00:23:14,207 Again, again! 374 00:23:14,208 --> 00:23:18,625 The adolescent Luis Emilio was a stray bullet. 375 00:23:21,834 --> 00:23:24,041 he was abnormally hyperactive... 376 00:23:25,417 --> 00:23:26,458 constantly. 377 00:23:27,291 --> 00:23:30,834 He always had ideas, and went out, and got back late. 378 00:23:31,333 --> 00:23:33,124 And later, when he was already a young adult, 379 00:23:33,125 --> 00:23:34,125 he didn't go back. 380 00:23:34,126 --> 00:23:36,207 And so it began, "Where's Emilio?" 381 00:23:36,208 --> 00:23:37,000 The calls began... 382 00:24:06,917 --> 00:24:11,750 Well, that exhibit, like the majority of exhibitions in Chile, 383 00:24:12,250 --> 00:24:15,083 the opening was pretty crowded. 384 00:24:17,917 --> 00:24:21,875 I had the urge to go to the bathroom 385 00:24:26,875 --> 00:24:28,040 The bathroom was in the basement. 386 00:24:28,041 --> 00:24:32,041 Like, there was a staircase down to it. 387 00:24:54,250 --> 00:24:59,374 And I came across a completely abandoned, dark environment, 388 00:24:59,375 --> 00:25:02,374 which was very different from... 389 00:25:02,375 --> 00:25:04,791 what was going on above, 390 00:25:04,792 --> 00:25:06,792 it was the opposite. 391 00:25:08,250 --> 00:25:12,583 I don't know why, I walked toward a specific point 392 00:25:16,291 --> 00:25:19,083 and I came across the Torso of Adele. 393 00:25:33,667 --> 00:25:35,916 There was an encounter. 394 00:25:35,917 --> 00:25:39,749 And you can't say there wasn't an encounter because there was. 395 00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:41,916 I was heading to the bathroom, 396 00:25:41,917 --> 00:25:44,333 I didn't go to the bathroom, I went there... 397 00:25:47,041 --> 00:25:49,166 No alarms went off, nothing went off. 398 00:25:51,917 --> 00:25:54,375 I picked it up as if it was mine, 399 00:25:56,458 --> 00:25:59,082 and put it in my bag like it was the best treasure 400 00:25:59,083 --> 00:26:02,875 I'd ever found in the world. 401 00:26:10,875 --> 00:26:12,332 It was just right. 402 00:26:12,333 --> 00:26:13,750 It was the day. 403 00:26:14,166 --> 00:26:16,582 I didn't think twice, 404 00:26:16,583 --> 00:26:18,666 because I already knew it. 405 00:26:18,667 --> 00:26:19,125 I didn't think twice, 406 00:26:21,917 --> 00:26:23,708 I already knew it. 407 00:26:31,125 --> 00:26:33,833 According to the version that L.E Onfray 408 00:26:33,834 --> 00:26:35,874 gave to La Segunda newspaper, 409 00:26:35,875 --> 00:26:39,499 which was the only media he ever gave an interview... 410 00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:41,999 "It was a random act" "no, I'm not nervous" 411 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,666 After taking the piece from the Fine Arts Museum, 412 00:26:46,667 --> 00:26:51,332 he went to the surrounding area of the building, which is Forest Park 413 00:26:51,333 --> 00:26:54,374 -"How did it feel having it?" -"It's quite a special sensation." 414 00:26:54,374 --> 00:27:00,457 And, sitting on a bench, according to this source, 415 00:26:54,375 --> 00:26:56,874 "a unique object" 416 00:26:56,875 --> 00:26:59,125 "a connection" 417 00:27:00,458 --> 00:27:04,791 He stares at it, he touches it, and just then... 418 00:27:04,792 --> 00:27:07,541 he began to size up what he'd done, 419 00:27:07,542 --> 00:27:11,500 even though at that point he still don't know which piece he had. 420 00:27:18,208 --> 00:27:25,166 And what he then does is he takes a taxi, and brings the piece home in the same backpack 421 00:27:35,417 --> 00:27:40,624 -"Who else knew about this?" -"There's nobody else involved, it was just me..." 422 00:27:40,625 --> 00:27:44,666 That day, it wasn't invite-only, 423 00:27:44,667 --> 00:27:46,416 it was free to enter, 424 00:27:46,417 --> 00:27:47,542 so it was chaotic. 425 00:27:49,417 --> 00:27:53,541 I checked out the exhibit, I didn't see anyone, 426 00:27:53,542 --> 00:27:56,624 and at some point I leave the Museum of Fine Arts 427 00:27:56,625 --> 00:27:57,666 of Fine Arts, I walk down the stairs, 428 00:27:57,667 --> 00:28:01,082 and suddenly, there, Luis leaves the Museum, 429 00:28:01,083 --> 00:28:06,165 excited, jumpy, and he says, 430 00:28:06,166 --> 00:28:08,875 "Let's go have some wine, on me." 431 00:28:10,625 --> 00:28:12,417 I was like, "Alright, let's go." 432 00:28:16,625 --> 00:28:19,749 After we bought the wine, 433 00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:21,916 we were sitting down, and suddenly, 434 00:28:21,917 --> 00:28:23,666 and says, "Look... 435 00:28:23,667 --> 00:28:25,125 I have a Rodin." 436 00:28:26,166 --> 00:28:28,207 I couldn't believe it. 20 kilograms, 437 00:28:28,208 --> 00:28:30,582 a Rodin in bronze, 438 00:28:30,583 --> 00:28:32,541 and I looked at it, he took it from me, 439 00:28:32,542 --> 00:28:34,582 I took it back, 440 00:28:34,583 --> 00:28:39,458 and nothing more than adoring the piece in front of us. 441 00:28:42,166 --> 00:28:47,458 Then we got up, put it back in his bag, and went to Forest Park. 442 00:28:49,875 --> 00:28:51,374 There was no one, no one in the park– 443 00:28:51,375 --> 00:28:54,290 well, there was a street-maintenance man, 444 00:28:54,291 --> 00:28:57,458 I don't know what he was doing there at that hour. 445 00:29:00,208 --> 00:29:03,582 At one point I said to him, 446 00:29:03,583 --> 00:29:05,165 "Hey, know what, you'd better hide this, 447 00:29:05,166 --> 00:29:07,207 throw it away," I started to... 448 00:29:07,208 --> 00:29:09,291 to think a litte bit. 449 00:29:17,291 --> 00:29:20,083 You're going to hear many different versions. 450 00:29:20,542 --> 00:29:21,750 So far. 451 00:29:21,751 --> 00:29:23,124 One, that... 452 00:29:23,125 --> 00:29:28,499 they had tried to sell the sculpture on Ahumada Street, 453 00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:30,583 to buy alcohol. 454 00:29:30,875 --> 00:29:31,500 Which is pretty funny. 455 00:29:34,750 --> 00:29:37,833 and I thought, "What would Rodin think if he were alive?" 456 00:29:37,834 --> 00:29:39,749 That in such a remote country his sculpture was stolen, 457 00:29:39,750 --> 00:29:42,290 to be exchanged for alcohol, as I understand, 458 00:29:42,291 --> 00:29:45,290 on a public street, at night. 459 00:29:45,291 --> 00:29:46,041 Maybe he'd be happy. 460 00:29:51,125 --> 00:29:54,290 What rumors do I know about the Rodin case? 461 00:29:54,291 --> 00:29:57,833 For example, I heard it was like... 462 00:29:57,834 --> 00:29:58,667 The exhibit ended, 463 00:29:58,668 --> 00:30:01,707 he met up with some friends outside, 464 00:30:01,708 --> 00:30:04,124 and he says "What up, bro!" 465 00:30:04,125 --> 00:30:06,833 Classic Chilean slang: "What up, 'weon'! How ya doin'?" 466 00:30:06,834 --> 00:30:09,166 "Good! Look what I got!" Bam! 467 00:30:10,583 --> 00:30:13,082 It's like, "Why?!" You know? 468 00:30:13,083 --> 00:30:16,207 "But alright, it's already here, so whatever. 469 00:30:16,208 --> 00:30:19,666 Now let's go drink." 470 00:30:19,667 --> 00:30:22,374 So they went with a group of friends, 471 00:30:22,375 --> 00:30:25,542 to one of their apartments nearby... 472 00:30:32,708 --> 00:30:35,499 They were there in the apartment, 473 00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:36,333 it was completely through the roof... 474 00:30:36,334 --> 00:30:40,375 and a Rodin sculpture in the center of the table. 475 00:30:48,625 --> 00:30:51,707 Anyway, here's another rumor. 476 00:30:51,708 --> 00:30:54,582 So they were partying, 477 00:30:54,583 --> 00:30:55,458 and... 478 00:30:55,459 --> 00:30:58,707 and one individual reaches into his magic pocket, 479 00:30:58,708 --> 00:30:59,999 takes out a baggie, 480 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,666 and so he says, "Man, what are we doing? 481 00:31:05,667 --> 00:31:08,041 I mean, let's do it like the Kings. 482 00:31:10,083 --> 00:31:13,290 So, on this nude body, 483 00:31:13,291 --> 00:31:15,707 by Rodin, the Torso of Adele in the center, 484 00:31:15,708 --> 00:31:16,583 whoosh. 485 00:31:21,417 --> 00:31:23,041 Actually I also think it's a nice image. 486 00:31:35,375 --> 00:31:38,417 –Obviously they arrested me, 487 00:31:39,625 --> 00:31:41,082 and it was one of the most humiliating things 488 00:31:41,083 --> 00:31:43,375 that's happened to me 489 00:31:44,708 --> 00:31:47,166 Being shackled and tied up. 490 00:31:50,375 --> 00:31:54,625 Police Headquarter, Independencia 491 00:31:52,375 --> 00:31:55,750 And then they shut me in a cell. 492 00:32:00,750 --> 00:32:04,834 It was pretty lonely, cold, a damp night, 493 00:32:10,083 --> 00:32:13,874 In the morning I heard this: 494 00:32:13,875 --> 00:32:15,417 A cop, like 6'3" tall, 495 00:32:16,542 --> 00:32:17,500 and he goes, 496 00:32:17,501 --> 00:32:20,750 "You the jerk who shamed the country?" 497 00:32:21,708 --> 00:32:23,375 and I told him, "Yes." 498 00:32:26,125 --> 00:32:29,583 And then they put me in a van 499 00:32:30,250 --> 00:32:32,166 and they brought me to the courthouse. 500 00:32:39,083 --> 00:32:42,040 And there, dude, they put me in a common cell, 501 00:32:42,041 --> 00:32:44,000 like where they put EVERYONE. 502 00:32:45,834 --> 00:32:46,667 The men were here, 503 00:32:46,668 --> 00:32:48,750 and a couple of women here, 504 00:32:50,208 --> 00:32:52,750 and the cops, and everything dark... dark. 505 00:32:53,625 --> 00:32:57,417 And over here, everyone was shackled together. 506 00:32:58,875 --> 00:33:00,416 And they called your name, 507 00:33:00,417 --> 00:33:03,207 And eventually they called mine, 508 00:33:03,208 --> 00:33:09,417 And I reach out my arm and shout, "Please get me out of here!" 509 00:33:12,834 --> 00:33:15,833 and the lawyer had the last name Pinochet. 510 00:33:15,834 --> 00:33:17,333 And I said, "I'm fucked." 511 00:33:18,083 --> 00:33:21,457 He asked me, "You're the man?" 512 00:33:21,458 --> 00:33:23,083 and I said, "Yes, I am the man," 513 00:33:23,333 --> 00:33:26,874 and he picked up the phone, click, 514 00:33:26,875 --> 00:33:27,999 and, in less than a minute, 515 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,499 in less than a minute, 516 00:33:29,500 --> 00:33:33,290 A guy showed up about 6'4" or more, 517 00:33:33,291 --> 00:33:34,707 and he goes "Hi, how are you?" 518 00:33:34,708 --> 00:33:36,791 I'm Luis Masferrer, your lawyer. 519 00:33:36,792 --> 00:33:41,333 Tell me everything that happened in two minutes, or less" 520 00:33:42,041 --> 00:33:46,624 –I saw a very scared boy, 521 00:33:46,625 --> 00:33:48,582 and he was giving an account, 522 00:33:48,583 --> 00:33:50,666 which in my judgement, and my first impression, 523 00:33:50,667 --> 00:33:52,749 was very genuine, 524 00:33:52,750 --> 00:33:54,874 and astounding of what 525 00:33:54,875 --> 00:33:57,750 it was going to be heard, in minutes, at the hearing, 526 00:33:58,208 --> 00:34:01,833 regarding what his motivation was 527 00:34:01,834 --> 00:34:03,313 for taking the Torso of Adele. 528 00:34:03,314 --> 00:34:05,874 With nearly an hour-long delay, 529 00:34:05,875 --> 00:34:07,040 the detention hearing began 530 00:34:07,041 --> 00:34:12,666 in the case of the young man referred to as initials L.E.O.F., 531 00:34:12,667 --> 00:34:13,792 20 years of age– 532 00:34:22,291 --> 00:34:25,000 –This is like the throne where the judge was, 533 00:34:26,458 --> 00:34:28,081 and the whole prosecution entourage as well, 534 00:34:28,083 --> 00:34:31,081 there were millions of people, 535 00:34:31,083 --> 00:34:33,416 and in the back, too. 536 00:34:33,417 --> 00:34:35,750 Millions, millions, millions... 537 00:34:37,583 --> 00:34:38,250 Public Ministry? 538 00:34:38,251 --> 00:34:41,250 Andrés Baytelman, Your Honor. 539 00:34:42,875 --> 00:34:45,331 I'm joined by the victims in this case. 540 00:34:45,333 --> 00:34:47,331 Could you state your names, please? 541 00:34:47,333 --> 00:34:49,416 My name is Alejandro Molina Valdivieso, 542 00:34:49,417 --> 00:34:52,081 I'm the curator of the Rodin retrospective in Chile. 543 00:34:52,083 --> 00:34:54,833 My name is Milan Ivelic, 544 00:34:54,833 --> 00:34:57,333 I'm the director of the National Fine Arts Museum, 545 00:34:58,708 --> 00:34:59,583 Very well. 546 00:34:59,584 --> 00:35:02,500 The detainee is present. His information, please. 547 00:35:03,667 --> 00:35:05,917 Luis Emilio Onfray Fabres. 548 00:35:06,542 --> 00:35:07,792 Occupation? 549 00:35:08,041 --> 00:35:09,875 Student. 550 00:35:10,083 --> 00:35:11,208 Poor little guy. 551 00:35:12,750 --> 00:35:14,583 The impression I had of him? 552 00:35:15,250 --> 00:35:16,041 That he was a kid. 553 00:35:17,875 --> 00:35:19,833 He was a common, average kid, 554 00:35:19,834 --> 00:35:21,290 he wasn't a seasoned criminal, 555 00:35:21,291 --> 00:35:25,583 or a specialist in theft or art theft, clearly. 556 00:35:26,583 --> 00:35:28,874 Well, Your Honor, 557 00:35:28,875 --> 00:35:32,875 We are investigating Mr. Luis for having stolen this work of art 558 00:35:33,542 --> 00:35:39,791 It is part of the case that this theft was due to a deliberate plan, 559 00:35:39,792 --> 00:35:42,165 regarding this Exhibition. 560 00:35:42,166 --> 00:35:43,125 –And the defense? 561 00:35:45,792 --> 00:35:48,124 What the defense holds... 562 00:35:48,125 --> 00:35:51,374 that no motivation for profit existed. 563 00:35:51,375 --> 00:35:53,749 That said, on with the following: 564 00:35:53,750 --> 00:35:56,582 This is Luis Emilio Onfray Fabres 565 00:35:56,583 --> 00:35:59,791 he has a critical perspective of art 566 00:35:59,792 --> 00:36:01,874 in which he wants to show the duality 567 00:36:01,875 --> 00:36:03,833 between the present and the absent, 568 00:36:03,834 --> 00:36:04,999 and to show the vulnerability 569 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,041 of the art museums in our country. 570 00:36:17,917 --> 00:36:20,499 It-it was like, yeah, you're kidding me. 571 00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:23,124 First, you stole a Rodin, which could only happen in Chile, 572 00:36:23,125 --> 00:36:25,124 then, you returned it, 573 00:36:25,125 --> 00:36:27,499 and you told me this whole story 574 00:36:27,500 --> 00:36:29,499 that you found in in Forest Park, 575 00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:32,416 and later, you tell the prosecution, the court, 576 00:36:32,417 --> 00:36:36,040 the media, and through them, the people, Chilean society, 577 00:36:36,041 --> 00:36:37,499 that actually, you stole it because 578 00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:38,707 you wanted to demonstrate something 579 00:36:38,708 --> 00:36:41,416 that had to do with art and your academic formation. 580 00:36:41,417 --> 00:36:42,291 Nah. 581 00:36:42,292 --> 00:36:46,041 And then I said "this is the icing on the cake"... 582 00:36:48,208 --> 00:36:50,666 the guy was a "punga" with rhetoric 583 00:36:50,667 --> 00:36:52,040 It was a project on Vulnerability, 584 00:36:52,041 --> 00:36:54,791 in which he wanted to show 585 00:36:54,792 --> 00:36:57,207 the duality between the absent and the present. 586 00:36:57,208 --> 00:36:59,458 and his way to manifest that was, 587 00:37:00,750 --> 00:37:05,125 "Can a work of art be present and absent at the same time, though it is not?" 588 00:37:06,250 --> 00:37:09,416 "Can a work of art be present and absent at the same time, though it is not?" 589 00:37:09,417 --> 00:37:11,083 –And I remember hearing a lot of laughter 590 00:37:12,333 --> 00:37:15,749 that would seem like, "listen to the nonsense he's proposing," 591 00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:18,165 but when this began to gain momentum, 592 00:37:18,166 --> 00:37:22,707 it began to be accepted even by the judge, 593 00:37:22,708 --> 00:37:24,040 that laughter turned to silence, 594 00:37:24,041 --> 00:37:26,916 and what begins to be heard 595 00:37:26,917 --> 00:37:28,333 is the murmur of "Here comes the news story." 596 00:37:29,542 --> 00:37:32,124 I don't remember having disqualified this as being an act of art. 597 00:37:32,125 --> 00:37:33,000 I wasn't unfamiliar with that. 598 00:37:33,001 --> 00:37:35,125 I remember, at the very least, 599 00:37:36,417 --> 00:37:39,332 that what I concluded, 600 00:37:39,333 --> 00:37:40,250 was that, in order to realize the "art action", 601 00:37:40,250 --> 00:37:41,208 the crime had to be committed, 602 00:37:41,209 --> 00:37:43,291 and the crime, for us... 603 00:37:45,083 --> 00:37:46,582 ...had to be punished, 604 00:37:46,583 --> 00:37:48,708 or was at least worthy of investigation. 605 00:37:49,250 --> 00:37:51,040 He's free as of now, 606 00:37:51,041 --> 00:37:53,082 which means absolutely nothing 607 00:37:53,083 --> 00:37:56,290 regarding whether or not the process will continue. 608 00:37:56,291 --> 00:37:58,916 "[The one] who took the sculpture is an ignoramus" 609 00:37:58,917 --> 00:38:01,582 Dude who stole sculpture claims its an "art performance" 610 00:38:01,583 --> 00:38:04,082 Theft of Rodin affects Chile's image internationally 611 00:38:04,083 --> 00:38:10,707 The theft of the Rodin piece caused such a stir that... 612 00:38:10,708 --> 00:38:13,999 it was linked by some media outlets with another important even 613 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,333 with similar characteristics that occurred at the beginning of the 80's 614 00:38:18,834 --> 00:38:20,624 In mid-October of last year, 615 00:38:20,625 --> 00:38:23,332 installed in front of the National Fine Arts Museum 616 00:38:23,333 --> 00:38:24,749 here in our capital 617 00:38:24,750 --> 00:38:28,165 was the sculpture by artist Humberto Nilo called "Apuntes". 618 00:38:28,166 --> 00:38:33,916 It consisted of a beach chair situated on an iron platform, 619 00:38:33,917 --> 00:38:36,165 which also had a pyramid, and a plant. 620 00:38:36,166 --> 00:38:39,541 The chair sculpture by Humbero Nilo 621 00:38:39,542 --> 00:38:42,625 was like a kind of attack. 622 00:38:44,125 --> 00:38:48,541 Because to many people it seemed absolutely absurd, 623 00:38:48,542 --> 00:38:51,332 That an object like a beach chair could become a sculpture. 624 00:38:51,333 --> 00:38:53,916 What's your opinion? 625 00:38:53,917 --> 00:38:56,457 Everytime I walked by I thought the chair was abandoned 626 00:38:56,458 --> 00:38:58,207 while they cleaned or organized, 627 00:38:58,208 --> 00:39:01,833 but now I'm told it was a monument and I find it absurd. 628 00:39:01,834 --> 00:39:03,999 Truly, I find it very, very esoteric that... 629 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,165 I don't understand what it's trying to say. 630 00:39:08,166 --> 00:39:11,249 I think this is an attack. An actual attack on art. 631 00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:14,416 This could never compare to Modern art. 632 00:39:14,417 --> 00:39:15,083 Original and very empty. 633 00:39:15,084 --> 00:39:17,040 What does the chair symbolize? 634 00:39:17,041 --> 00:39:18,999 It doesn't represent anything. 635 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,082 It's only an idea put out there. 636 00:39:21,083 --> 00:39:23,416 And are you satisfied with that work, or not? 637 00:39:23,417 --> 00:39:25,499 I'm satisfied, now more than ever because 638 00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:29,874 I know that it's creating a conflict... a cultural conflict, 639 00:39:29,875 --> 00:39:32,833 of a plastic culture, which in this country, 640 00:39:32,834 --> 00:39:34,917 is quite behind. 641 00:39:35,291 --> 00:39:36,208 The argument around it originated 642 00:39:36,209 --> 00:39:39,374 in the impressions of one of our commentators, 643 00:39:39,375 --> 00:39:41,374 writer Enrique Lafourcade. 644 00:39:41,375 --> 00:39:46,374 It's 7 PM and the "vulgarity" is still here, 645 00:39:46,375 --> 00:39:49,333 in front of the Fine Arts Museum. 646 00:39:50,917 --> 00:39:53,666 The director of the museum has said publicly 647 00:39:53,667 --> 00:39:58,457 that as long as she is director of the Fine Arts Museum, 648 00:39:58,458 --> 00:40:02,916 this artifact is going to stay where it is, 649 00:40:02,917 --> 00:40:04,040 in this place of honor, 650 00:40:04,041 --> 00:40:07,542 beside the great sculpture of Rebeca Matte. 651 00:40:11,583 --> 00:40:15,124 This morning, the chair was uprooted 652 00:40:15,125 --> 00:40:17,207 by unknown suspects, 653 00:40:17,208 --> 00:40:20,207 who left only the bolts. 654 00:40:20,208 --> 00:40:23,457 This is something very interesting because, 655 00:40:23,458 --> 00:40:27,707 this was a time when saying "A sculpture was stolen," 656 00:40:27,708 --> 00:40:29,916 the first thing you'd think 657 00:40:29,917 --> 00:40:32,457 is, "A sculpture was caused to disappear." 658 00:40:32,458 --> 00:40:37,666 That is, here, in this time, 1981-82– 659 00:40:37,667 --> 00:40:41,791 They were times when people were taken from their homes, 660 00:40:41,792 --> 00:40:43,499 and were never brought back. 661 00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:47,290 –How do you feel after hearing this information? 662 00:40:47,291 --> 00:40:50,791 I'm not surprised by the act itself, 663 00:40:50,792 --> 00:40:54,833 because it could perfectly well form part of the piece. 664 00:40:54,834 --> 00:40:57,750 Imagining a "happening" or an art action. 665 00:40:59,291 --> 00:41:03,791 But, yes, the act itself of vandalism is another thing, 666 00:41:03,792 --> 00:41:05,707 which is a product of misinformation 667 00:41:05,708 --> 00:41:07,874 and a lack of culture in this country. 668 00:41:07,875 --> 00:41:08,208 You're a suspect, Enrique. 669 00:41:08,209 --> 00:41:10,290 Well, the first suspect is obvious but 670 00:41:10,291 --> 00:41:12,582 I would've stolen the whole thing; 671 00:41:12,583 --> 00:41:13,916 they only stole the seat, 672 00:41:13,917 --> 00:41:17,457 they left the platform, the cactus, and a pyramid 673 00:41:17,458 --> 00:41:20,457 But even in the supposed case, 674 00:41:20,458 --> 00:41:23,582 in some kind of momentary insanity, 675 00:41:23,583 --> 00:41:25,666 in which I would have stolen this seat, 676 00:41:25,667 --> 00:41:27,416 What would I do with it in my house? 677 00:41:27,417 --> 00:41:29,416 That's the question I have. 678 00:41:29,417 --> 00:41:31,625 Or what is the thief going to do with this chair? 679 00:41:37,458 --> 00:41:42,249 Responding to an anonymous call to our press department 680 00:41:42,250 --> 00:41:44,624 about the location of the chair, 681 00:41:44,625 --> 00:41:47,040 which this morning was stolen 682 00:41:47,041 --> 00:41:49,332 from the Fine Arts Museum, 683 00:41:49,333 --> 00:41:52,707 we've arrived here to the Lo Saldes bridge, 684 00:41:52,708 --> 00:41:54,040 and we've proven that, effectively, 685 00:41:54,041 --> 00:41:56,874 it's under a willow tree 686 00:41:56,875 --> 00:41:59,290 near the Vitacura Roundabout... 687 00:41:59,166 --> 00:42:06,041 "Art Avengers' Command" tossed it in the Mapocho [River]. 688 00:41:59,291 --> 00:42:03,791 ...and a document that reads, 689 00:42:03,792 --> 00:42:06,165 "To citizens of Santiago, the country, everyone, 690 00:42:06,166 --> 00:42:10,374 We return the chair as a warning and not as a an apology. 691 00:42:10,375 --> 00:42:12,833 Hopefully from this patriotic act, 692 00:42:12,834 --> 00:42:15,582 some conclusions have been reached. 693 00:42:15,583 --> 00:42:17,666 Among them, that our nation's art 694 00:42:17,667 --> 00:42:20,332 must be a reason for national pride, 695 00:42:20,333 --> 00:42:21,291 and not for embarrassment and shamelessness. 696 00:42:30,708 --> 00:42:32,666 The night I went to the... 697 00:42:32,667 --> 00:42:34,707 ...to see the Sergio Castillo exhibit, 698 00:42:34,708 --> 00:42:36,624 the guard was explaining everything to me, 699 00:42:36,625 --> 00:42:39,582 he reminded me what had happened, 700 00:42:39,583 --> 00:42:41,499 and on my way out of the museum he goes, 701 00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:43,916 "And I have the photo of the boy," 702 00:42:43,917 --> 00:42:46,916 because apparently they had it posted 703 00:42:46,917 --> 00:42:48,749 to avoid him entering again. 704 00:42:48,750 --> 00:42:50,207 So he gave me this paper yesterday, 705 00:42:50,208 --> 00:42:54,625 which I was looking at, which has on it his ID number, 706 00:42:55,333 --> 00:42:57,708 so here's the face of this young man... 707 00:42:58,166 --> 00:43:00,417 but here he's 10 years younger. 708 00:43:31,041 --> 00:43:33,000 Everything was in order. 709 00:43:34,500 --> 00:43:36,582 Ranges of equilibrium, 710 00:43:36,583 --> 00:43:37,333 ranges of arousal, 711 00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:38,999 and ranges... 712 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,290 of something particularly Chilean, I think, 713 00:43:42,291 --> 00:43:43,999 A sort of... 714 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,083 taste for other's stuff 715 00:43:56,583 --> 00:43:59,708 The taxi dropped me off at my house. 716 00:44:00,125 --> 00:44:04,166 There I looked at it... completely. 717 00:44:06,625 --> 00:44:08,583 A magnificent piece. 718 00:44:14,834 --> 00:44:19,083 He even smoked a cigarette observing the Torso of Adele. 719 00:44:20,875 --> 00:44:22,041 –Isolated from the world, 720 00:44:24,250 --> 00:44:25,624 From what I remember he said, 721 00:44:25,625 --> 00:44:27,332 "It was the sculpture... 722 00:44:27,333 --> 00:44:30,208 me, and my project." 723 00:44:32,875 --> 00:44:35,875 My first reaction was to draw. 724 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,583 Later, obviously tired, I fell asleep. 725 00:45:25,500 --> 00:45:27,082 I got up in the morning, 726 00:45:27,083 --> 00:45:29,208 and I kept seeing it. 727 00:45:31,333 --> 00:45:33,124 And of course, 728 00:45:33,125 --> 00:45:35,125 the dream ended. 729 00:45:38,792 --> 00:45:40,834 And then, the second phase, 730 00:45:41,250 --> 00:45:43,499 which was also part of the project: 731 00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:45,457 Turning on the TV, 732 00:45:45,458 --> 00:45:49,583 and trying to see the impact this was having. 733 00:45:50,500 --> 00:45:55,124 "Jocelyn pleas emotionally to Carlos and promises to change" 734 00:45:55,125 --> 00:45:57,916 Maybe you... 735 00:45:57,917 --> 00:46:00,707 think... 736 00:46:00,708 --> 00:46:01,250 I did it, and... 737 00:46:01,251 --> 00:46:02,416 and it hurts you and– 738 00:46:02,417 --> 00:46:06,833 –Carlos. We'd like to ask you for a compromise, 739 00:46:06,834 --> 00:46:09,374 and leave you two to talk in private 740 00:46:09,375 --> 00:46:11,416 because there's a lot you have to resolve, 741 00:46:11,417 --> 00:46:12,417 and this is the first step. 742 00:46:12,418 --> 00:46:14,624 Before that we're going to cut to the news, 743 00:46:14,625 --> 00:46:16,707 I want to ask you for just a moment, 744 00:46:16,708 --> 00:46:19,000 because we have contact right now with The 24 Report. 745 00:46:28,041 --> 00:46:29,165 How are you? Good afternoon. 746 00:46:29,166 --> 00:46:32,999 Breaking news coming from the Museum of Fine Arts, Santiago, 747 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,499 where we're told of the theft 748 00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:39,624 of a valuable piece by French sculptor Auguste Rodin. 749 00:46:39,625 --> 00:46:41,165 Live from the center of the capital, 750 00:46:41,166 --> 00:46:43,499 journalist Alejandro Vega. 751 00:46:43,500 --> 00:46:46,874 Alejandro, do we know what piece has been stolen? 752 00:46:46,875 --> 00:46:49,124 Every channel was showing the same thing, and I... 753 00:46:49,125 --> 00:46:50,583 watching. 754 00:46:51,375 --> 00:46:55,250 But from the perspective of a spectator. 755 00:46:55,542 --> 00:46:58,625 Not as an artist who did the work... 756 00:47:00,375 --> 00:47:01,874 but as a spectator, 757 00:47:01,875 --> 00:47:03,582 seeing what was happening, 758 00:47:03,583 --> 00:47:04,083 like a voyeur. 759 00:47:04,084 --> 00:47:09,707 A piece esimated to be worth around 500,000 Euros. 760 00:47:09,708 --> 00:47:12,749 More information about this and other news 761 00:47:12,750 --> 00:47:13,791 in the main edition of 24 Hours, 762 00:47:13,792 --> 00:47:17,208 and now returning to Martin and Barbara in "Passions". 763 00:47:22,875 --> 00:47:24,165 My main idea... 764 00:47:24,166 --> 00:47:26,290 was to keep it a few days, 765 00:47:26,291 --> 00:47:28,582 many more days, 766 00:47:28,583 --> 00:47:30,749 15 days at least, 767 00:47:30,750 --> 00:47:32,416 and do another circuit as well. 768 00:47:32,417 --> 00:47:38,624 And when I saw the media hype that my Action caused, 769 00:47:38,625 --> 00:47:40,833 it was really complicated for me. 770 00:47:40,834 --> 00:47:41,792 Very complex. I said, 771 00:47:41,793 --> 00:47:43,250 "What do I do?" 772 00:47:50,708 --> 00:47:52,999 The trip to the police station was very chaotic. 773 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,416 It was very fast... 774 00:47:54,417 --> 00:47:57,541 but it was confusing, so confusing, 775 00:47:57,542 --> 00:48:00,875 there were a million things going through my head. 776 00:48:02,708 --> 00:48:05,750 Ideas like, they are going to lock me up, dude. 777 00:48:15,333 --> 00:48:20,749 Anyway, when you're 20, it's like your mind goes wild 778 00:48:20,750 --> 00:48:21,917 It's like... 779 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:34,499 So, I arrived to the police station ... and I said to them, 780 00:48:34,500 --> 00:48:36,624 "You know what? I found this." 781 00:48:36,625 --> 00:48:41,083 to not get involved in a legal issue... 782 00:48:42,625 --> 00:48:46,833 That was my biggest fear, being in a legal issue, 783 00:48:46,834 --> 00:48:48,917 and being locked up. 784 00:48:51,458 --> 00:48:52,999 and that scared me... the law. 785 00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,707 The law scared me. 786 00:48:55,708 --> 00:48:59,541 Because they perfectly could have 787 00:48:59,542 --> 00:49:02,332 sentenced me to five years and a day 788 00:49:02,333 --> 00:49:06,208 for theft, and I am not a thief. 789 00:49:07,333 --> 00:49:09,208 I am an artist. 790 00:49:29,875 --> 00:49:31,165 Art is a fantasy. 791 00:49:31,166 --> 00:49:36,125 A fantasy and at the same time, unproductive 792 00:49:37,792 --> 00:49:42,624 I always try to highlight the golden 793 00:49:42,625 --> 00:49:45,541 "Gold", like the gold. 794 00:49:45,542 --> 00:49:47,290 because gold is a fantasy 795 00:49:47,291 --> 00:49:52,166 and I like to provoke a fantasy. 796 00:50:21,625 --> 00:50:24,374 This is a work that I really like 797 00:50:24,375 --> 00:50:27,499 because when I did it, it was October 12, 798 00:50:27,500 --> 00:50:32,457 In which I appear as some sort... 799 00:50:32,458 --> 00:50:36,542 of aboriginal or native person, 800 00:50:45,667 --> 00:50:49,165 And then a priest appears, who is a tattoo artist, 801 00:50:49,166 --> 00:50:53,207 and he tattooed me on my right rib 802 00:50:53,208 --> 00:50:55,290 the words "Son of God," 803 00:50:55,291 --> 00:51:01,542 connecting the culture and Catholicism. 804 00:51:20,041 --> 00:51:24,499 One day Emilio discovered this fetus in my home 805 00:51:24,500 --> 00:51:25,083 and... 806 00:51:25,084 --> 00:51:26,290 he stared at it... 807 00:51:26,291 --> 00:51:28,166 and I think he instantly conceived his Work 808 00:51:29,417 --> 00:51:31,082 This work, 809 00:51:31,083 --> 00:51:36,374 I find it great. I find it beautiful, it has lots of harmony 810 00:51:36,375 --> 00:51:37,291 Because... 811 00:51:37,292 --> 00:51:39,499 The fetus is dead, 812 00:51:39,500 --> 00:51:42,624 but it's organic, 813 00:51:42,625 --> 00:51:46,916 and the lettuce has roots that feed it... 814 00:51:46,917 --> 00:51:48,290 and it's also organic, 815 00:51:48,291 --> 00:51:54,207 So here, I get a feeling of a relation between... 816 00:51:54,208 --> 00:51:56,207 life and death 817 00:51:56,208 --> 00:51:57,666 as a first impression. 818 00:51:57,667 --> 00:51:59,249 In a second reading, 819 00:51:59,250 --> 00:52:03,541 there is a relation between the seed and germination, 820 00:52:03,542 --> 00:52:05,833 and thirdly, 821 00:52:05,834 --> 00:52:07,291 I think there's a relation between... 822 00:52:09,542 --> 00:52:11,208 Turn on life... 823 00:52:13,083 --> 00:52:17,750 and maintaining it with the promise that it's going to end. 824 00:52:34,458 --> 00:52:38,332 I can´t stand the shame, I ask God to forgive me 825 00:52:38,333 --> 00:52:41,040 I acted desperately 826 00:52:41,041 --> 00:52:43,291 under the influence of alcohol 827 00:52:44,708 --> 00:52:48,541 I'm not okay, I know that you're not okay either, 828 00:52:48,542 --> 00:52:50,749 I know that we need each other 829 00:52:50,750 --> 00:52:55,624 I'll get back on my feet. Don't be scared, I'll keep my distance, 830 00:52:55,625 --> 00:52:58,874 I won't drink another drop of alcohol 831 00:52:58,875 --> 00:53:00,332 until I recover my balance. 832 00:53:00,333 --> 00:53:05,792 I'll work hard until I overcome my violent tendencies 833 00:53:08,917 --> 00:53:11,124 Without a doubt... 834 00:53:11,125 --> 00:53:16,374 Emilio has an addiction-prone personality– 835 00:53:16,375 --> 00:53:18,375 for the use and abuse of substances. 836 00:53:29,166 --> 00:53:32,499 When I talk I feel, like, good. 837 00:53:32,500 --> 00:53:33,874 –When you talk? 838 00:53:33,875 --> 00:53:36,332 –'Cuz talking's great, you know? 839 00:53:36,333 --> 00:53:36,834 –Yeah. 840 00:53:36,835 --> 00:53:39,583 –It's like, dude, man, when you talk... 841 00:53:40,500 --> 00:53:44,457 –And you feel like a person, you know? 842 00:53:44,458 --> 00:53:48,041 But sometimes words, to me, like, 843 00:53:49,125 --> 00:53:51,417 words fall short for me. You know? 844 00:53:52,125 --> 00:53:54,541 –The words aren't enough for you so— 845 00:53:54,542 --> 00:53:57,332 –If another word existed, dude,... 846 00:53:57,333 --> 00:53:59,624 for "I love you", I'd say it, man. 847 00:53:59,625 --> 00:54:04,082 –That's what artists do, invent words in images... 848 00:54:04,083 --> 00:54:06,582 things that can't be expressed, you know? 849 00:54:06,583 --> 00:54:08,082 And those words are the things I do, 850 00:54:08,083 --> 00:54:10,542 the paintings I do 851 00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:14,332 A work... 852 00:54:14,333 --> 00:54:19,124 there are many works created under the influence of alcohol, 853 00:54:19,125 --> 00:54:21,457 such as all of the literature of Edgar Allan Poe 854 00:54:21,458 --> 00:54:25,082 or that of Baudelaire with hash, 855 00:54:25,083 --> 00:54:31,208 It's not good feelings that make great literature or art... 856 00:54:35,583 --> 00:54:41,667 Transgression and art are totally compatible 857 00:54:42,917 --> 00:54:44,041 They even go together. 858 00:54:47,583 --> 00:54:49,165 So if it was under the effects of alcohol, 859 00:54:49,166 --> 00:54:52,165 maybe it was what Emilio needed 860 00:54:52,166 --> 00:54:56,125 to remove those "mathematical pains" from above. 861 00:55:08,125 --> 00:55:12,791 Rainer Maria Rilke - Augusto Rodin 862 00:55:12,792 --> 00:55:16,207 "Many monuments of Rodin, have gone to America 863 00:55:16,208 --> 00:55:21,791 and the most mature of all of them was destroyed 864 00:55:21,792 --> 00:55:23,416 in the occasion of riots in Chile, 865 00:55:23,417 --> 00:55:26,667 even before it was erected; 866 00:55:27,708 --> 00:55:30,792 It was the horseback monument to General Lynch." 867 00:55:31,291 --> 00:55:34,416 Rodin liked this request right away, 868 00:55:34,417 --> 00:55:37,708 because it was the first time that he was confronted 869 00:55:38,125 --> 00:55:40,249 with an equestrian figure; 870 00:55:40,250 --> 00:55:43,541 He worked hard in this labor. 871 00:55:43,542 --> 00:55:46,999 The miniature was sent to Chile. 872 00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:52,625 Unfortunately, the Chilean Fine Arts Committee didn't like it. 873 00:56:08,834 --> 00:56:11,833 Rodin has the habit of using 874 00:56:11,834 --> 00:56:14,541 these sculptures that were not finished 875 00:56:14,542 --> 00:56:16,290 to make others, 876 00:56:16,291 --> 00:56:19,165 and Patricio Lynch's horse, 877 00:56:19,166 --> 00:56:21,875 became a centaur. 878 00:56:32,375 --> 00:56:38,666 Like the idea that Rodin has something to do with Chile 879 00:56:38,667 --> 00:56:41,124 So there's no greater classist arrogance, 880 00:56:41,125 --> 00:56:43,833 we are almost like cousins of Rodin. 881 00:56:43,834 --> 00:56:48,290 If there's something that fascinates Chileans, 882 00:56:48,291 --> 00:56:51,999 it's saying, "No, we have something to do with history!" 883 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,165 "We had to do with Rodin," 884 00:56:54,166 --> 00:56:56,290 "We had to do with Darwin," 885 00:56:56,291 --> 00:56:59,749 almost like, "If Darwin hadn't seen the Patagonian fox, 886 00:56:59,750 --> 00:57:02,290 he wouldn't have written the evolution theory." 887 00:57:02,291 --> 00:57:07,249 So this is a thing....I understand it because we all have experienced it, me too 888 00:57:07,250 --> 00:57:13,999 I'd love to know that I had an aunt who knew a cousin who knew some random hero, 889 00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:18,833 or that it's possible that some last name came from... 890 00:57:18,834 --> 00:57:22,207 We have it, it has to do with the narration, with our own history, with how 891 00:57:22,208 --> 00:57:24,249 we tell the story to ourselves, 892 00:57:24,250 --> 00:57:28,040 and we are fascinated by the idea of a man like Rodin, 893 00:57:28,041 --> 00:57:33,374 trying to participate in a petty contest of this country that used to be rich, 894 00:57:33,375 --> 00:57:39,666 because of the saltpeter, and sure, why not? 895 00:57:39,667 --> 00:57:43,291 It could have been. The thing is, that we didn't have the vision in that moment. 896 00:57:59,750 --> 00:58:03,791 When did you find out that this robbery didn't correspond to an art action 897 00:58:03,792 --> 00:58:05,834 and how did you felt about that? 898 00:58:07,083 --> 00:58:09,290 I never knew it was an art action. 899 00:58:09,291 --> 00:58:13,749 It was a rumor I've heard from the students and some teachers 900 00:58:13,750 --> 00:58:18,999 I saw it as more of an impulsive act, in the moment. 901 00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,582 I don't have more information about it. 902 00:58:21,583 --> 00:58:24,082 I understand that there are some texts; which I've never read, 903 00:58:24,083 --> 00:58:26,333 regarding the justification of that "art action". 904 00:58:30,166 --> 00:58:34,166 This text came from the computer of Luis Emilio Onfray 905 00:58:35,834 --> 00:58:38,290 In fact, the district attorney is told 906 00:58:38,291 --> 00:58:42,582 that there is a computer: CPU, tower, etc. 907 00:58:42,583 --> 00:58:46,666 to be confiscated, so that they can investigate 908 00:58:46,667 --> 00:58:51,125 and see that the art action project existed before the hearing. 909 00:58:51,375 --> 00:58:54,582 and we obtained the three documents you well know... 910 00:58:54,583 --> 00:58:56,916 and we obtained the three documents you well know... 911 00:58:56,917 --> 00:58:58,624 and the first file is dated June 10th... 912 00:58:58,625 --> 00:59:01,082 and it refers explicitly to Rodin... 913 00:59:01,083 --> 00:59:03,666 one week before the theft... 914 00:59:03,667 --> 00:59:07,249 One week before he had no way of foreseeing 915 00:59:07,250 --> 00:59:08,874 about the lights turn off, 916 00:59:08,875 --> 00:59:10,624 the non-infrarred cameras, 917 00:59:10,625 --> 00:59:13,916 the fact that it wouldn't be guarded, 918 00:59:13,917 --> 00:59:15,249 that no weight sensor was on, 919 00:59:15,250 --> 00:59:18,833 that the gallery wouldn't be locked, 920 00:59:18,834 --> 00:59:20,457 to put it this way, with... 921 00:59:20,458 --> 00:59:26,500 with every conceivable safeguard for an exhibition of that magnitude.. 922 00:59:28,166 --> 00:59:30,750 completely absent. 923 00:59:31,417 --> 00:59:33,457 In other words... 924 00:59:33,458 --> 00:59:34,582 "opportunity". 925 00:59:34,583 --> 00:59:36,291 An opportunity, furthermore, enabled by... 926 00:59:37,750 --> 00:59:38,417 chance! 927 00:59:44,166 --> 00:59:48,375 Project "Systems of Vulnerability". Luis Emilio Onfray F. 928 00:59:49,667 --> 00:59:55,249 Museum as stroll, comma, transit. Work: 929 00:59:55,250 --> 01:00:01,165 Acquire an sculpture during a period of 14 days (two weeks). 930 01:00:01,166 --> 01:00:09,916 and see what happens (social response, intrigue from the language, the oral... 931 01:00:09,917 --> 01:00:14,124 where), questions of, "why and how did he do it?" 932 01:00:14,125 --> 01:00:16,332 and the importance that it establishes, 933 01:00:16,333 --> 01:00:18,457 specifically the art audience, 934 01:00:18,458 --> 01:00:21,374 and the public that interacts with the sculpture 935 01:00:21,375 --> 01:00:22,707 Three phases of the project: 936 01:00:22,708 --> 01:00:25,082 Violate the vigilant eye, comma, 937 01:00:25,083 --> 01:00:27,207 but without intentions of robbery– 938 01:00:27,208 --> 01:00:31,207 –but without intentions of robbery or theft, or damage. 939 01:00:31,208 --> 01:00:33,499 Just a loan for a limited time. 940 01:00:33,500 --> 01:00:37,874 An initial loan, start of the publicity. 941 01:00:37,875 --> 01:00:41,916 It's the start of the unthinkable, the unestablished 942 01:00:41,917 --> 01:00:46,165 Lost of the value as a lesson, desire to represent absence, 943 01:00:46,166 --> 01:00:49,374 Establish the concern as an object of dialogue, 944 01:00:49,375 --> 01:00:53,165 as a non-present representation of the image in the social sphere 945 01:00:53,166 --> 01:00:59,541 Course! (media coverage of the work... 946 01:00:59,542 --> 01:01:03,582 as public) 947 01:01:03,583 --> 01:01:05,249 end of the project, even more public! 948 01:01:05,250 --> 01:01:10,207 They don't know the meaning of established unacceptable conduct, 949 01:01:10,208 --> 01:01:13,833 it's illogical to give more information about such. 950 01:01:13,834 --> 01:01:16,583 Rodin. 951 01:01:17,417 --> 01:01:22,624 as a figure, dash, absent image, comma, that emerges, 952 01:01:22,625 --> 01:01:23,833 comma, as pretext, comma, 953 01:01:23,834 --> 01:01:27,165 The model is always a pretext to derivate in my interests, 954 01:01:27,166 --> 01:01:28,249 that I want to express. 955 01:01:28,250 --> 01:01:34,624 Theft: notion of borrowing as a social-artistic 956 01:01:34,625 --> 01:01:36,416 gesture of raising consciousness 957 01:01:36,417 --> 01:01:38,040 and cultural opinion of the work. 958 01:01:38,041 --> 01:01:40,374 Importance: 959 01:01:40,375 --> 01:01:50,082 Loss brings back to the memory what is missing. 960 01:01:50,083 --> 01:01:52,040 This phrase I think– Look, 961 01:01:52,041 --> 01:01:54,916 I read this the other day, a while ago... 962 01:01:54,917 --> 01:01:58,708 The last phrase stayed with me. And everything else too... 963 01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:11,458 Loss... brings back... to the memory... what is missing. 964 01:02:12,500 --> 01:02:13,792 Let's see. 965 01:02:14,917 --> 01:02:16,040 He wants to represent the absence 966 01:02:16,041 --> 01:02:19,082 like Saint Paul when arrives to the Agora of Athens. 967 01:02:19,083 --> 01:02:22,542 and he finds that there's an empty pedestal 968 01:02:23,333 --> 01:02:26,207 so he would be celebrating the emptiness 969 01:02:26,208 --> 01:02:29,791 with the empty pedestal of that work, 970 01:02:29,792 --> 01:02:35,917 so, some sort of homage to immaterial art. 971 01:02:39,500 --> 01:02:41,083 I have a very simple example in mind: 972 01:02:42,208 --> 01:02:45,417 the first mosques built 973 01:02:47,792 --> 01:02:50,666 are attributed to Byzantine artesans 974 01:02:50,667 --> 01:02:53,749 who were used to building churches, 975 01:02:53,750 --> 01:02:59,708 in which the walls had alcoves, 976 01:02:59,917 --> 01:03:03,792 alcoves designed to harbor sculptures... 977 01:03:04,041 --> 01:03:06,499 As you know, 978 01:03:06,500 --> 01:03:11,541 Islam is a religion that radically rejects imagery... 979 01:03:11,542 --> 01:03:18,457 But the idea of the alcoves in mosques has been preserved. 980 01:03:18,458 --> 01:03:22,082 Today, mosques have an empty space in the direction of Mecca 981 01:03:22,083 --> 01:03:25,416 and which manifests, through absence, 982 01:03:25,417 --> 01:03:28,250 the presence of a God that can't be represented. 983 01:03:32,708 --> 01:03:36,416 It's like when you have someone next to you all the time 984 01:03:36,417 --> 01:03:39,499 and you have it, you have it. You have it, until you lose it, and 985 01:03:39,500 --> 01:03:41,207 just then, you start to appreciate it, 986 01:03:41,208 --> 01:03:45,165 so then it's like, "oh, I should have appreciated it more." 987 01:03:45,166 --> 01:03:46,666 "Why isn't in here?" 988 01:03:46,667 --> 01:03:50,916 "It weighs on me," "I still feel it," "It pains me,"... 989 01:03:50,917 --> 01:03:53,749 It happens to me with my mother. 990 01:03:53,750 --> 01:03:56,290 and it happens to all human beings with their loved ones. 991 01:03:56,291 --> 01:03:58,457 one says, "Ah, why I didn't do that?" 992 01:03:58,458 --> 01:04:01,582 and others tell you that when they're not there, they're there, 993 01:04:01,583 --> 01:04:03,124 Because you can talk to them 994 01:04:03,125 --> 01:04:06,040 You remember. You know how they rationalized, you can exchange... 995 01:04:06,041 --> 01:04:09,749 Well, there are many theories about that. And that's okay for philosophy, 996 01:04:09,750 --> 01:04:11,833 It's OK for the consciousness, It's OK for the heart. 997 01:04:11,834 --> 01:04:13,749 But it's not okay for the organization of society. 998 01:04:13,750 --> 01:04:17,457 That's not acceptable as guideline for the organization of society. 999 01:04:17,458 --> 01:04:19,541 Because it can be done easier: 1000 01:04:19,542 --> 01:04:23,833 You can hide the work, deliberately, so its gone. 1001 01:04:23,834 --> 01:04:25,207 And to feel what happens, 1002 01:04:25,208 --> 01:04:27,834 but to go and steal it? No. 1003 01:04:29,708 --> 01:04:33,333 I don't want to talk about that. Don't mention it. 1004 01:04:34,333 --> 01:04:37,374 Because it's too present in a difficult time of my life, 1005 01:04:37,375 --> 01:04:40,208 that's not related with things but with human beings. 1006 01:04:41,792 --> 01:04:44,582 My husband died a month ago, and I can say he's present, 1007 01:04:44,583 --> 01:04:46,417 but not more present. 1008 01:05:00,291 --> 01:05:05,916 Perhaps I'm saying, very pedantically, something very banal, 1009 01:05:05,917 --> 01:05:08,291 We all know absence creates desire, 1010 01:05:09,500 --> 01:05:12,582 and that many of us... 1011 01:05:12,583 --> 01:05:14,124 are unhappy in love 1012 01:05:14,125 --> 01:05:17,834 when the person leaves us 1,000 km away, 1013 01:05:19,208 --> 01:05:21,250 that when we get slapped 1014 01:05:23,417 --> 01:05:25,500 at least for me. 1015 01:05:38,333 --> 01:05:40,625 My name is Luis Emilio Onfray Fabres. 1016 01:05:45,875 --> 01:05:48,332 ...my father was never with me... 1017 01:05:48,333 --> 01:05:49,333 Onfray 1018 01:05:50,166 --> 01:05:52,000 Who is Emilio's father? 1019 01:05:53,291 --> 01:05:56,874 A person... 1020 01:05:56,875 --> 01:05:57,583 I have never seen 1021 01:06:00,458 --> 01:06:02,375 and that... 1022 01:06:04,208 --> 01:06:06,375 doesn't exist to me. 1023 01:06:07,792 --> 01:06:10,375 I don't know if he exists to Emilio 1024 01:06:11,333 --> 01:06:13,583 For me he doesn't exist. 1025 01:06:17,125 --> 01:06:20,707 what I remember about him were... 1026 01:06:20,708 --> 01:06:23,040 good memories too... 1027 01:06:23,041 --> 01:06:27,125 going out and eating hot dogs with juice. 1028 01:06:27,917 --> 01:06:30,208 One time he hit me I remember. 1029 01:06:31,166 --> 01:06:35,207 and I think that the relationship with my mother started to decay, logically, 1030 01:06:35,208 --> 01:06:39,458 until they reach a point of no-return, and well, he went away 1031 01:06:40,208 --> 01:06:42,458 I stopped seeing him when I was 8. 1032 01:06:45,583 --> 01:06:49,332 ...every month I went to cash a check. 1033 01:06:49,333 --> 01:06:51,040 That day my mom went with me 1034 01:06:51,041 --> 01:06:55,416 because the check was late in several days, 1035 01:06:55,417 --> 01:06:56,833 So... 1036 01:06:56,834 --> 01:07:00,542 the cashier told us, "This person is dead" 1037 01:07:11,083 --> 01:07:15,500 This is called "I am thirsty and there's no water" 1038 01:07:23,250 --> 01:07:25,333 Emilio, think about it! 1039 01:07:40,375 --> 01:07:42,457 I'm not Onfray. I am not Onfray. 1040 01:07:42,458 --> 01:07:47,040 I don't know, Onfray is a rare last name, is not common. 1041 01:07:47,041 --> 01:07:51,083 My dad is French, my mom is Chilean, 1042 01:07:52,083 --> 01:07:59,707 but I can't give credit as an artist to a person who was never there 1043 01:07:59,708 --> 01:08:04,707 but I give it to my mom and her family 1044 01:08:04,708 --> 01:08:06,874 Fabres 1045 01:08:06,875 --> 01:08:09,166 Emilio Fabres. 1046 01:08:18,041 --> 01:08:23,125 There is a story about Emilio where he suffered a lot, so double applause please. 1047 01:08:26,207 --> 01:08:30,832 I decided to change my last name when I started showing. 1048 01:08:30,834 --> 01:08:34,290 And then I said, sure "Emilio Fabres" is my name 1049 01:08:34,291 --> 01:08:38,375 it's my gratitude, and I am what I am thanks to the family 1050 01:08:41,542 --> 01:08:47,792 One day, on the evening or during the night maybe, Emilio came. 1051 01:08:48,625 --> 01:08:52,082 and I started to talk to Emilio about an old thesis 1052 01:08:52,082 --> 01:08:54,165 that has resurfaced nowadays. 1053 01:08:54,166 --> 01:08:57,499 There are papers recently published 1054 01:08:57,500 --> 01:09:00,082 All of our cells, absolutely all of them 1055 01:09:00,082 --> 01:09:04,832 contain a cytoplasmic organelle named mitochondria 1056 01:09:04,834 --> 01:09:09,624 The feminine zygote, the oocyte 2, has mitochondria, 1057 01:09:09,625 --> 01:09:12,874 and our spermatozoids also have mitochondria, 1058 01:09:12,875 --> 01:09:16,917 but when the spermatozoid comes and inserts itself on the oocyte 2, 1059 01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:22,291 something makes the mitochondria in the spermatozoid get destroyed. 1060 01:09:24,375 --> 01:09:28,290 This is a fact of incalculable curiosity and value 1061 01:09:28,291 --> 01:09:31,082 because it means that if we look at our cells, 1062 01:09:31,082 --> 01:09:34,749 we have mitochondria from our mother, 1063 01:09:34,750 --> 01:09:36,834 whether we're a man or a woman, 1064 01:09:37,082 --> 01:09:41,207 and if we follow genetically the mitochondria of our mothers back in history, 1065 01:09:41,207 --> 01:09:45,375 we are going to find, to put it in words, "the first mother" 1066 01:09:47,417 --> 01:09:49,874 Of course... 1067 01:09:49,875 --> 01:09:54,875 Emilio looked at me, with his lost eyes 1068 01:09:55,083 --> 01:09:57,332 and he said to me... 1069 01:09:57,333 --> 01:09:58,542 "mitochondrial" 1070 01:09:59,291 --> 01:10:03,457 MITOCHONDRIAL, Emilio Fabres June 3 - 24, 2011 1071 01:10:03,458 --> 01:10:10,624 Mitochondrial is a work that plays with part of my identity, 1072 01:10:10,625 --> 01:10:12,125 particularly my family from my mother's side 1073 01:10:14,750 --> 01:10:16,207 and that is why I made a performance 1074 01:10:16,208 --> 01:10:20,250 in which I appeared with my mothers panties, 1075 01:10:21,333 --> 01:10:25,749 some photos of my grandmother, a nightstand, a very intimate atmosphere, 1076 01:10:25,750 --> 01:10:31,040 and in which I shaved most of my body... 1077 01:10:31,041 --> 01:10:33,458 annulling the paternal gene, 1078 01:10:45,333 --> 01:10:50,207 Why do you think Emilio did this extremist work of art? 1079 01:10:50,208 --> 01:10:53,749 I think Emilio did this expression to... 1080 01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:55,208 punish his mother. 1081 01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:01,750 To say to her... 1082 01:11:02,500 --> 01:11:05,291 that he was existing during all this time 1083 01:11:07,834 --> 01:11:11,458 ...without a father 1084 01:11:12,417 --> 01:11:14,749 It can be made to say everything to a biography. 1085 01:11:14,750 --> 01:11:21,458 That is, what you tell me about the loss of a parent and the relationship with the theft... 1086 01:11:23,625 --> 01:11:27,457 I have no doubt that the life of an artist influences his work, 1087 01:11:27,458 --> 01:11:32,249 in the same way that our lives influence what we do day by day 1088 01:11:32,250 --> 01:11:40,791 But I would not risk talking about the psychoanalytic interpretation of an act like that 1089 01:11:40,792 --> 01:11:43,834 That seems a little risky to me 1090 01:11:48,667 --> 01:11:52,624 After more than a month of confusion related to the disappearance of the Torso of Adele 1091 01:11:52,625 --> 01:11:57,165 finally perpetrator Luis Onfray Fabres, has a sentence. 1092 01:11:57,166 --> 01:11:59,624 The agreement was made only a few hours before the hearing 1093 01:11:59,625 --> 01:12:03,834 after long conversations between the implicated, with the aim of finding a solution. 1094 01:12:04,041 --> 01:12:09,499 He was an "easy to reintegrate" type of guy, who showed... 1095 01:12:09,500 --> 01:12:11,333 genuine regret. I believe. 1096 01:12:12,667 --> 01:12:16,249 I hope these apologies serve to express my genuine repentance 1097 01:12:16,250 --> 01:12:20,457 and serve to transmit to others that the cultural heritage, 1098 01:12:20,458 --> 01:12:25,291 Art and institutions that promote it must be protected. 1099 01:12:32,875 --> 01:12:34,165 It could have been many years in jail, 1100 01:12:34,166 --> 01:12:36,707 but the defense and the prosecution agreed 1101 01:12:36,708 --> 01:12:38,124 an exemplary sentence. 1102 01:12:38,125 --> 01:12:42,542 During one year, the college student should work in the penitentiary's library 1103 01:12:47,333 --> 01:12:51,374 This was the main condition, so to speak, 1104 01:12:51,375 --> 01:12:56,207 and I was not available to accept this in anywhere else but prison 1105 01:12:56,208 --> 01:13:02,000 but in this case the value was not to do "community work in favor of the prisoners" 1106 01:13:02,500 --> 01:13:05,082 It was to put him face-to-face... 1107 01:13:05,083 --> 01:13:06,791 with his next destiny 1108 01:13:06,792 --> 01:13:10,457 in the case that he thought that what he did was not that serious 1109 01:13:10,458 --> 01:13:13,416 and if the idea crossed his mind... 1110 01:13:13,417 --> 01:13:15,749 of another project... 1111 01:13:15,750 --> 01:13:16,375 of art. 1112 01:13:20,458 --> 01:13:33,125 After working a year at the penitentiary's library, Luis Emilio Onfray Fabres was indefinitely dismissed. 1113 01:13:39,750 --> 01:13:43,708 This shop used to be named "Rembrandt". 1114 01:13:44,667 --> 01:13:47,165 My bosses were going to close it... 1115 01:13:47,166 --> 01:13:50,999 but I wanted to continue in this because I liked it. 1116 01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:52,541 There were no obstacles. 1117 01:13:52,542 --> 01:13:56,582 The next day I was here, with the key in my hand, working, 1118 01:13:56,583 --> 01:14:00,666 but the only thing that they didn't allow me to keep was the name. 1119 01:14:00,667 --> 01:14:02,750 So, I started to look for a new one. 1120 01:14:05,125 --> 01:14:10,416 And it occurred to me because of the robbery that was...in the museum 1121 01:14:10,417 --> 01:14:13,290 When they came here with the exhibition. 1122 01:14:13,291 --> 01:14:15,165 it sounded good to me... 1123 01:14:15,166 --> 01:14:18,083 to keep the R. "Rodin". 1124 01:14:18,625 --> 01:14:21,124 Since June 16th the Torso of Adele hasn't figured 1125 01:14:21,125 --> 01:14:23,291 into the exhibition at the Museum of Fine Arts 1126 01:14:24,667 --> 01:14:26,082 However, the Museum Board 1127 01:14:26,083 --> 01:14:28,999 reinforced the security measures 1128 01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:31,249 -Which is your favorite sculpture? 1129 01:14:31,250 --> 01:14:33,082 -"The Kiss"... 1130 01:14:33,083 --> 01:14:35,750 But I'm also curious to see The Torso of Adele as well. 1131 01:14:37,667 --> 01:14:40,499 The Adele. I used it, because... 1132 01:14:40,500 --> 01:14:45,541 I took it from what I considered to be a marketing campaign, 1133 01:14:45,542 --> 01:14:48,458 So... I also used it as marketing. 1134 01:14:49,750 --> 01:14:50,874 It changed lot... 1135 01:14:50,875 --> 01:14:53,874 before the theft and after it... 1136 01:14:53,875 --> 01:14:54,291 the influx of... of the public. 1137 01:14:54,292 --> 01:14:57,999 And the rows for entrance were packed because people... 1138 01:14:58,000 --> 01:14:59,166 were curious. 1139 01:14:59,750 --> 01:15:02,833 And here in this photo you can appreciate that there are tons of people 1140 01:15:02,834 --> 01:15:06,290 but the funny thing here, what we tried to show... 1141 01:15:06,291 --> 01:15:10,791 that the pedestal where the Torso of Adele was, was empty 1142 01:15:10,792 --> 01:15:14,917 but everyone was saying, "Oh, look, the one that kid stole was here." 1143 01:15:15,417 --> 01:15:19,624 The absence is a strong element, 1144 01:15:19,625 --> 01:15:23,916 and if we go back to the story that I was narrating previously, about the stolen Gioconda 1145 01:15:23,917 --> 01:15:25,499 and if we go back to the story that I was narrating previously, about the stolen Gioconda 1146 01:15:25,500 --> 01:15:30,124 There are many images of newspapers in 1911 or 1912 1147 01:15:30,125 --> 01:15:33,749 that only showed the bolts, 1148 01:15:33,750 --> 01:15:35,999 where the painting used to be, 1149 01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:39,499 because they bore witness, 1150 01:15:39,500 --> 01:15:41,417 in a marvelous way, the absence of a treasured object. 1151 01:15:42,291 --> 01:15:44,833 The phenomenon that you described that happened in Chile, occurred in Paris. 1152 01:15:44,834 --> 01:15:47,541 The phenomenon that you described that happened in Chile, occurred in Paris. 1153 01:15:47,542 --> 01:15:50,999 That is, the visitants came to see the absent Mona Lisa, 1154 01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:54,165 with more than 300,000 visits in 3 months 1155 01:15:54,166 --> 01:15:56,749 Today the exhibit ended, in the Fine Arts Museum, 1156 01:15:56,750 --> 01:15:58,541 of the French sculptor, Rodin. 1157 01:15:58,542 --> 01:16:02,999 This is an historical phenomenon. This is the most visited exposition in Chile. 1158 01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:07,041 "Rodin bids farewell to Chile smashing a record" 1159 01:16:18,291 --> 01:16:23,666 Masterpieces are solely the way in which they're constructed, contemplated, 1160 01:16:23,667 --> 01:16:25,833 invented as masterpieces. 1161 01:16:25,834 --> 01:16:27,208 Because masterpieces don't exist self-contained 1162 01:16:27,458 --> 01:16:32,624 like in the case of the Mona Lisa, that created... 1163 01:16:32,625 --> 01:16:35,916 of a mystique that surrounds a work of art. 1164 01:16:35,917 --> 01:16:37,124 Because, as you know, the Mona Lisa was stolen in 1910. 1165 01:16:37,125 --> 01:16:41,124 And it became the Mona Lisa thanks to the robbery. 1166 01:16:41,125 --> 01:16:44,833 The "Artistic Manifesto" of the Torso of Adele's thief, was accomplished. 1167 01:16:44,834 --> 01:16:48,833 One week after the embarrassing robbery at the Fine Arts Museum, 1168 01:16:48,834 --> 01:16:51,207 Rodin's sculpture is present, while at the same time not being present. 1169 01:16:51,208 --> 01:16:55,708 The lost brings back to the memory what is not there. 1170 01:17:02,542 --> 01:17:04,040 If it was what he proposed... 1171 01:17:04,041 --> 01:17:06,834 he did it. 86435

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