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This programme contains
some strong language
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Ten years ago, God, Brexit.
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The vote to leave the European Union
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00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,840
changed the course
of British history.
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Both seems unimaginably distant
and like yesterday.
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Ten years on, this is the story
of the EU referendum
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told by those inside the campaigns.
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They were putting pressure on me
to do joint events with Cameron.
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I said, "No."
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It's not going to convince anybody
other than we both look desperate.
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It was very difficult
because I was a campaigner
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but I was also the Prime Minister.
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I said, "This is not Project Fear,
this is Project Apocalypse.
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"This is something
that is far graver
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"than just worrying people
about leaving the European Union."
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CHEERING
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I got the impression
very, very early
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that the people that ran Vote Leave,
they didn't really want to win.
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It was nothing to do with the EU,
Britain's place in the world.
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It was Game Of Thrones. That's
what Boris Johnson was playing.
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And he could see the Iron Throne
right there about to be vacated.
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I don't think at that point
he really believed in it.
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He believed it was going to lose.
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Watch out, team, watch out.
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Everybody says I did this
in order to be PM.
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I would have become
Prime Minister anyway.
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Morning, Ed. Hello, morning.
Morning.
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As the country voted
in the 2015 general election,
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few expected it would lead
to a referendum
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on whether Britain
should leave the EU.
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What's going to happen?
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What's going to go on?
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The Mail -
"One in four are still undecided."
34
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,080
The Express -
"Vote to keep Britain great."
35
00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:06,960
The Guardian -
"It couldn't be closer."
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00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,680
"Well hung," says The Sun.
37
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,960
We gathered in the Prime Minister's
home on election day,
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and there was a real feeling in the
air that we may have lost this,
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or at least that Labour would be
the largest party
40
00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,520
and be able to form a government.
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00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:24,360
I remember that afternoon,
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I wrote a speech which would have
effectively been conceding,
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cos you've always got to be ready
for every eventuality,
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and I remember reading it
to my team.
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00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,320
David Cameron's mood throughout the
evening became bleaker and bleaker.
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00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,120
We then sat down
to watch the BBC exit poll.
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It was a really
heart-stopping moment,
48
00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,760
just simply not knowing
what the result was going to be.
49
00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,560
But here it is, ten o'clock,
50
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,840
and we are saying the Conservatives
are the largest party.
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00:02:56,920 --> 00:02:59,800
I remember the exit poll
as if it was yesterday.
52
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It was a moment of great joy for me,
that we had worked really hard,
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00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,800
I think we'd run a good government
for five years
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and we had the chance
of serving again.
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Quite remarkable, this exit poll,
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the Conservatives on 316.
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That's up nine
since the last election in 2010.
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CHEERING
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On the night of the election,
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I mean, I was up in the north of
England in my own constituency,
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00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,320
so I wasn't with
the rest of the team,
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00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,320
and a huge cheer went up with the
group of people I was with
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and then I immediately phoned David.
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00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,600
We no longer had a coalition,
we no longer had Liberal Democrats,
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00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,040
but in some ways it was going to be
harder to govern.
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00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,440
I mean, it was an exciting time,
but I knew we had made a promise
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00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,400
to hold a referendum
before the middle of the Parliament.
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00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:57,360
Cameron's victory left Labour and
the Liberal Democrats leaderless.
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00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:58,720
And now it's time for someone else
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00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,240
to take forward the leadership
of this party.
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00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,480
And therefore, I announce
that I will be resigning
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00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,320
as leader of the Liberal Democrats.
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00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,480
It was also an eventful night
for UKIP leader Nigel Farage...
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00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,320
Nigel Paul Farage.
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00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,520
..who was hoping to be elected
as an MP for the first time.
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UKIP. 16,026.
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CHEERING
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Craig Mackinlay,
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00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,840
the Conservative Party candidate.
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00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:37,080
18,838.
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00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:38,800
CHEERING
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Election day 2015.
Didn't win the seat down in Thanet.
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00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,640
So, yeah, there was a sense
of disappointment about that.
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00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:48,280
When the count came through,
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00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:49,960
I remember him walking offstage,
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we went out the back,
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and he sat in the corner on his own
for about ten minutes.
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00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,360
He was exhausted.
He was pissed off. He had lost.
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00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,240
So there he was on the clifftop.
"That's it, I'm finished."
90
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,360
There hasn't been a single day
of my life since 1994
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00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,240
that has not been dominated by UKIP.
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I haven't had a fortnight's holiday
since October 1993.
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I intend to take the summer off,
enjoy myself a little bit,
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not do very much politics at all.
95
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:21,680
This way.
96
00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,040
Nigel can get a bit emotional
sometimes, can't he?
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So he needed to have his moment,
his tantrum,
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and then recalibrate.
99
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,640
I was down for about 24 hours.
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I woke up the next morning and
I've not won a seat. That's life.
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But the government's been elected
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and they've promised us a referendum
on European Union membership.
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00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,640
I then thought,
"Hang on, maybe I shouldn't resign.
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00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,400
"If there is a referendum coming,
perhaps I'd better be a part of it."
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00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,360
So I then unresigned
very, very quickly.
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00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,680
David Cameron
had won a majority of 12.
107
00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,040
His first opportunity to speak
to his newly elected cohort
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00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,560
came at the 1922 Committee,
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00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,680
a meeting of backbench Tory MPs,
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00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,760
dozens of them
determined to leave the EU.
111
00:06:14,280 --> 00:06:16,560
We went into the 1922 Committee
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00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,520
and there was a lot of banging
of desks and cheering
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00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,680
and a scarcely believing
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00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,160
that the Conservative Party had gone
from being in a coalition government
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00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,840
to actually
having an overall majority.
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00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:30,400
I deliberately sat
right up the top of the room,
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00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,520
near where the Prime Minister,
David Cameron, would be,
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00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,960
and I sat facing so I could see
the rest of the room,
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00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,040
see how they were going to react.
120
00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,080
I strongly recall that David Cameron
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00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,760
looked like a man
who was surprised he'd won.
122
00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:46,400
He did not look elated.
He looked daunted, actually,
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00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,240
by what he was now
going to have to do.
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00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,480
There was the dawning realisation
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00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,560
that having a majority did mean
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00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,560
that we would finally
get that referendum.
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00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,320
David Cameron's making this good
fist of trying to look pleased
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00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,000
that he's still the Prime Minister.
129
00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,240
So he thanks George Osborne,
his great master strategist.
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00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:08,120
And I'm looking around this packed
room of elated people and I think,
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00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:09,440
"Where's George?"
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00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,400
I think
we expected to stay in office,
133
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,920
but we didn't expect
to win outright.
134
00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,280
And so there's that moment
when you're exhausted
135
00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:24,040
and you've won and then,
you know, politics is, "And now?"
136
00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:25,560
And I spotted him
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00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:29,600
sitting on the steps
next to the big committee table.
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00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,280
So, almost hiding,
he wasn't making himself seen,
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00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,040
but he was sitting there with arms
on his knees and his head down.
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00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,600
You know,
this was a despondent-looking man.
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00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,720
And I thought, "Yeah, you didn't
expect to have to hold a referendum
142
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,600
"cos you thought you'd bargain
it away with the Lib Dems."
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00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,440
There was a feeling, I think,
that there was a virus
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00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,200
inside the Conservative Party,
145
00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,520
and a lot of people had come to feel
that dealing with the Europe issue
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00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,000
was more important
than the party itself.
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00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,000
Immediately, it was clear
the big issue was now going to be
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00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,840
the EU referendum,
and that was going to dominate
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00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:01,720
the coming period in politics.
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00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:06,440
Before holding the referendum,
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00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,720
David Cameron promised
to renegotiate
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00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,360
Britain's relationship with the EU.
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00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,480
REPORTER: David Cameron
is attempting something
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00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,280
no EU leader has done before -
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00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,520
asking every other country
to agree a set of reforms
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00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,640
that will then be put
to a national vote
157
00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,480
on whether to remain in
or leave the European Union.
158
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:33,480
But that summer, the EU
faced a more pressing problem.
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00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:40,280
REPORTER: The hunt for safety,
prosperity, or both, is right now
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00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,800
causing the biggest movement
of people since World War II.
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00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,760
Hundreds of thousands of refugees,
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many fleeing the war in Syria,
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were arriving on Europe's shores.
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00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:58,360
REPORTER: You can't harden
your heart for scenes like this.
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00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,400
These are some of the latest
migrants making the perilous journey
166
00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,240
across the Mediterranean.
Many have lost their lives.
167
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,760
For Cameron, the race was on
to hold the referendum
168
00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,000
before another huge wave of migrants
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00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,000
provided further ammunition
for Eurosceptics.
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00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:19,480
Nigel was starting to get excited.
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00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:20,960
"This referendum,
this is going to be good.
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00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,400
"I don't know when they're going to
call it but it's going to happen."
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00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,200
But after the election,
he was exhausted. So I said,
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00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,480
"Do you want to come on holiday?
Do you want to come fishing?"
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00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,480
And he said, "Yes, yes.
Let's go and do that."
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00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,360
So I said,
"Why don't you come to Belize?"
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00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,200
I went away with one of my advisers,
with Arron Banks, for a few days.
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00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,920
And we talked about
what would the sequencing being,
179
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,760
what would the time being?
180
00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,040
And I was convinced
that Cameron would go early.
181
00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:00,520
What amazed me about Nigel
182
00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,480
was just how deep his understanding
of politics is,
183
00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,440
and he realised that the referendum
was more than just Brexit.
184
00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,600
It would be to do with the future
of the Conservative Party.
185
00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:14,680
I knew from day one
186
00:10:14,680 --> 00:10:18,840
that the Conservative Party
would back Remain.
187
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,120
The Conservative establishment
would back Remain,
188
00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,000
but that some would break away.
189
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,080
He said,
"We need a separate campaign.
190
00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:26,960
"We need to get out
ahead of the Conservatives
191
00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,920
"who will try to avoid immigration
as an issue."
192
00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,840
They found it all was too difficult,
too awkward to discuss.
193
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,880
So we decided, in those weeks
following the election,
194
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:39,040
we'd get going.
195
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,240
So that's how we created this
Leave.EU campaign.
196
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,320
Morning, Nigel. Good morning.
197
00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,000
It was at the UKIP Conference
in the autumn of that year
198
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,560
that we launched Leave.EU.
199
00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:58,160
The best thing we did
was to start early,
200
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,680
because that then forced others
who wanted to come out for Leave
201
00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:04,840
to get their campaign going as well.
202
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,280
The UKIP leader's brand of politics
was a concern for many Conservatives
203
00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,320
who wanted to leave the EU.
204
00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,880
It wasn't going to win a referendum
where you need to win over
205
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,720
the broad consensus
of the population.
206
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,720
Too many people were alienated
by the Farage brand.
207
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,360
Tory Eurosceptics like Jenkin
wanted their own campaign,
208
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,720
and knew just the man to run it.
209
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:37,480
Gordon Brown's
chief economic adviser
210
00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:38,880
is now republishing a pamphlet
211
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,800
he wrote a few years ago saying
what a terrible idea the euro is.
212
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:44,680
15 years earlier,
213
00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:47,880
Dominic Cummings
had successfully run an operation
214
00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,400
to stop Britain joining the euro.
215
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,360
He was the obvious choice
to run Vote Leave.
216
00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,800
I knew he was the guy
who could do the job
217
00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,560
because he's fearless
in his campaigning.
218
00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:05,200
Dominic goes all-in on something,
219
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,160
in some ways a bit like a sort of
SAS general. He's able to...
220
00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,920
If you sort of point to the
fortification you want to take,
221
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,600
he's, you know, all-in to take that
fortification, come what may,
222
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,240
using whatever methods necessary
to do it.
223
00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,480
Elliott and Cummings were determined
to launch Vote Leave
224
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,200
with a bold claim.
225
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,200
I'm at my desk
and Dom walks past and goes,
226
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:33,680
"Oliver, roughly speaking,
227
00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:36,240
"how much do we send to
the EU every week?"
228
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,480
So I basically went on
to the official government stats,
229
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,040
the so-called Pink Book,
230
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,480
and found the numbers
and, simple, divide it by 52.
231
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,040
And so it was, roughly speaking,
232
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,320
about £350 million a week,
you know, taken as a gross figure.
233
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,960
"Do you want that figure?"
And he goes, "Yeah, absolutely."
234
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:54,520
And I said,
"Oh, why do you want it?"
235
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,680
He goes, "Oh, no reason.
Don't worry about it."
236
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,080
Every week, the United Kingdom
237
00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,640
sends £350 million
238
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:08,920
of taxpayers' money to the EU.
239
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:11,960
We did use it deliberately.
240
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,960
In doing that, it helped everyone
discuss, what is the balance sheet?
241
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,360
What's the true balance sheet?
242
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,880
That's £20 billion per year.
243
00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,800
The reason why
that figure drove everyone crazy
244
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,800
is that we were using true figures.
245
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,440
But Cummings' figure
did not account for the rebate -
246
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,600
around £80 million -
247
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,520
or EU money spent in the UK.
248
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,080
It was a fantastic video,
but I thought,
249
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,360
"We can't use 350 million,
that's the gross figure.
250
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:45,760
"We've got to use the net figure
251
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,600
"otherwise we'll be completely
lampooned and ridiculed."
252
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,520
From the minute the Vote Leave
was launched, you know,
253
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,040
and that was in direct response
to what Leave.EU had done,
254
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,720
I thought, "Look, there must be
a coming together of some kind.
255
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,240
"There must be an accommodation
of some kind."
256
00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,240
It makes sense...
It makes sense to have a campaign
257
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,560
with a lot of the political spectrum
represented.
258
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,480
A meeting between Farage's Leave.EU
259
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,720
and Dominic Cummings' Vote Leave
was organised.
260
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,920
They said that immigration
and Nigel would put
261
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,800
middle class voters off
from voting for Brexit,
262
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,680
and that he should be sidelined.
263
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,040
What they didn't
realise was, actually,
264
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,520
both Dominic and I
had a very clear idea
265
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,000
about how the
referendum campaign
266
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,200
could and should be won,
267
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,760
and it wasn't basically
going all-in on immigration
268
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:41,320
and concentrating on the core vote.
269
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,880
You needed
a more sophisticated campaign.
270
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,080
They thought we would actually lose
the referendum on our side
271
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,040
because of the negatives.
272
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,840
So, you know,
the 38% of the population
273
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,920
that were not going to vote Leave
hated Farage.
274
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,280
"Ah, look,
there's a minus approval rating."
275
00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,080
What they didn't understand was,
276
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,040
on the positive side of the
equation, we could increase turnout.
277
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,560
It started getting
into a row, so Arron, um,
278
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,000
was not holding back.
He was piling in.
279
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,880
Certainly, Cummings and Banks
had a lot to say about each other.
280
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,560
I told him straight to his face
what I thought of him.
281
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,760
You know,
that he was a political spad
282
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,520
that had never
done anything with his life,
283
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,120
never amounted to anything,
and who was he to tell me,
284
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,680
um, you know, anything, really?
285
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,600
And then he responded with,
uh, you know,
286
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,120
a four-letter expletive
starting with C.
287
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:33,280
HE LAUGHS
288
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,760
That's when we knew
pretty much that, um,
289
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:41,200
there's no way there was going to be
any, um, joining of the forces.
290
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,640
Meanwhile, the Remain side
had their own problems.
291
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,600
Peter Mandelson was an experienced
former Labour minister
292
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,400
and EU Commissioner.
293
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,640
He was organising
a cross-party campaign
294
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,720
and wanted to get the Prime Minister
signed up right away.
295
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,480
I met David Cameron at a leaving
party for a Number 10 official
296
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,240
and he came up to me
and we started talking
297
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,240
about the prospects
for the referendum, and I said,
298
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,160
"Well, we've really
got to start mobilising,
299
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,160
"we've got to start organising."
300
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,000
He said, "Hold on.
No, no, no, no, no."
301
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,480
You know, "We haven't even had
a negotiation yet.
302
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,880
"We have to maintain the illusion
303
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,600
"that we might, even if the
negotiation is disappointing,
304
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,160
"recommend that we leave
the European Union."
305
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,280
This gave me, you know...
306
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,440
It was a real problem because,
you know, on the one hand,
307
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,240
I had a Conservative leader
and Prime Minister
308
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,120
who was trying to sort of
put the brakes on
309
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,560
and not being
entirely enthusiastic.
310
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,720
And on the other hand,
Jeremy Corbyn.
311
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,200
Jeremy Corbyn elected as leader
of the Labour Party.
312
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,840
REPORTER: A moment some of his
critics hoped they'd never see.
313
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,880
Now the challenge is,
can he make the group hug last?
314
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:02,560
Can he keep Labour together?
315
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,120
In the leadership campaign in 2015,
316
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:08,600
Jeremy was the only candidate
317
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,240
who wasn't just a kind of
318
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:12,200
absolutely Remain enthusiastic.
319
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,760
A lot of the Shadow Cabinet
were very anxious about that.
320
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,720
They wanted just a very clear answer
from Jeremy.
321
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,120
"You are supporting in?"
322
00:17:18,120 --> 00:17:20,680
And Jeremy sort of paused
and gave his view of the EU,
323
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,080
which is a mixed bag.
324
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,920
I was saying that
I see social advantages.
325
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,240
I see the point
about trade within Europe.
326
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,200
I do think we have to be there,
327
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,200
but not be tied
into free market economics,
328
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,200
which will damage
the whole of the economic strategy
329
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,680
I wanted to put forward,
which is about
330
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,440
a public investment-led
economic revival in Britain.
331
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,960
You could see, the minute he said
that, they'd just cut him off
332
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:49,440
and go, "But we are supporting in."
333
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,520
I said, "Yes, we'll campaign for it
with the qualification..."
334
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,120
And I made this qualification
from the very beginning,
335
00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:58,840
that we weren't going to campaign
jointly with the Conservatives
336
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,320
or Liberal Democrats.
It was going to be our campaign,
337
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:02,720
it'd be a Labour campaign,
338
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:07,320
which would also be about the need
to change and reform the EU.
339
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,160
Without direct support
from either Corbyn or Cameron,
340
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,920
Mandelson and his cross-party group
decided to press on and launch,
341
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:20,360
using the name...
342
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,120
We were getting very close
to launch date.
343
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:28,720
We didn't have a chair.
344
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,240
And somebody had been
talking to Stuart Rose,
345
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,960
who'd been the chairman
of Marks & Spencer.
346
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,120
Nobody was more surprised than I
347
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:37,680
to have a phone call one day saying,
348
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,320
"Stuart, you know, we've got this
campaign now to remain in Europe
349
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,040
"and you're the man to do it."
350
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,080
And I said, "You must be joking."
351
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,600
And then I had another phone call,
you know, an hour later saying that,
352
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,960
"Stuart, you're just the man." Then
I had another phone call saying,
353
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,640
"Stuart, you're just the man."
I kept saying, "No, no, no, no,
354
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:54,840
"I'm not the man."
355
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:57,320
But they leant on me very heavily.
356
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,640
Stuart's speech had been approved
and it had been briefed.
357
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,600
And when a speech is briefed
in politics,
358
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,760
it means it's already being
written up
359
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,360
and the media are expecting
the lines to be delivered.
360
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:12,720
But at the 11th hour, he decided
he didn't like some of those lines.
361
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:14,320
I'm used to going through a debate
362
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,480
to make sure
that we get the best line.
363
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,760
We all understand it and you
believe in what you're saying,
364
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,160
and it's very hard to stand up
when someone gives you a script
365
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,680
and suddenly starts spouting forth
on this stuff
366
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,320
when half of it you don't believe.
There was the word quitter.
367
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,040
I mean, instinctively it said to me,
368
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,520
"Stuart, we really shouldn't be
calling people
369
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,080
"who don't want to stay in Europe
quitters, cos it's a negative."
370
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,360
I remember sitting there
with the speech,
371
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:39,800
and I had my pen out, saying,
you know, "I'm not saying this,
372
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,200
"I'm not saying that,"
while trying to change the words.
373
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,200
Welcome to the launch of Britain
is Stronger in Europe campaign.
374
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,200
It was kind of like taking
a world-class lock forward
375
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:56,720
from a rugby team
376
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,520
and trying to make him open the
batting for England in The Ashes.
377
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,520
He was a brilliant sportsman,
but playing the wrong sport.
378
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,440
I am not saying,
and we are not saying,
379
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,960
that we would not survive
from being without the EU,
380
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:11,600
but I'm saying that...
381
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,720
But I'm asking the very real
question, would we thrive?
382
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,640
I thought the launch went
extremely badly. If I'd been me,
383
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,960
I'd have marked myself three out
of ten. It really was that bad.
384
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,920
Watching the launch
of the Stronger In campaign,
385
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:27,600
our heads were in our hands.
386
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,040
From that moment on,
the campaign was mocked.
387
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,600
And I think that that
really catalysed the sense that
388
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,920
if we don't get a grip of this,
we are going to lose this.
389
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,880
Craig Oliver was dispatched
to meet the leaders of Stronger In.
390
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,640
When I was shown the polling,
what was clear was, on one side,
391
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,520
we had a third of people who were
going to be out, come what may.
392
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,240
We had a third of people
on the other side
393
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,200
who were going to be in,
come what may.
394
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,120
And in the middle
were a sceptical group.
395
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:57,360
They didn't particularly care
about European unity,
396
00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:00,480
but they did care about whether it
was going to impact on their pocket.
397
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,000
I think the thing that really
ensured that the Number 10 folks
398
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,960
were comfortable with the Remain
campaign was our insistence
399
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,520
that we understood economic risk
400
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,400
had to be a critical part
of the message.
401
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,040
The other thing I was
keen to persuade them of
402
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,800
is that we weren't
a bunch of Euro nutters,
403
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,040
that we did understand,
you know,
404
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,560
where the British public were. That
we weren't just taking for granted
405
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,000
that we could just sort of conjure
up Ode To Joy and play the music
406
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,480
and just march off into the sunset
and win this referendum.
407
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,200
So by the end of that meeting,
I felt, "Look, we CAN work together,
408
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,600
"we can be part of a team,"
409
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,800
and that that should be what we did
going forward.
410
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:43,040
We shouldn't reject them.
411
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:47,960
In public, though, Cameron insisted
412
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,760
he could still opt for Leave
if his negotiation with the EU
413
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,640
failed to deliver
special concessions.
414
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,160
But his chance of success
was made far more difficult
415
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,680
by the ongoing refugee crisis,
416
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,840
which was dominating
nightly news coverage.
417
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,280
REPORTER: A desperate scramble
to get on board
418
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,800
as Hungary opens its main railway
station to thousands of migrants
419
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,280
who want to get to western Europe.
420
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:20,720
We are real people!
421
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,280
REPORTER: There was a crush
to get back from the tear gas.
422
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,080
We are human.
We're trying to be someplace safe.
423
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:30,680
Why they're hitting us?
424
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,920
REPORTER: They travel onwards,
propelled by hope,
425
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,760
most heading for Germany.
426
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,280
I remember talking to David
in November of 2015.
427
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,200
The one thing that I said to him,
and this was more by way of being
428
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,280
an adviser than a friend,
429
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,560
um, was that immigration
was going to be key.
430
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,520
Unless, in this negotiation,
431
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,680
it was clear that there'd been
a significant win
432
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,120
in terms of Britain's capacity
to control free movement
433
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:07,120
and to control migration,
434
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:11,040
then it would be much more difficult
for him to sell any deal.
435
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,960
The most obvious answer
436
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,080
to having some measure
of immigration control
437
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,480
from people coming
from other EU countries
438
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,560
was simply to have
an emergency brake,
439
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,960
a cap on numbers, so that if,
for instance,
440
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,680
in a given year
it was going over 50,000,
441
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,320
you could say, "Right.
We're pulling the emergency brake,"
442
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,160
the cap comes into operation,
443
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,160
no more can come for this year
until the numbers come down.
444
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:42,080
When Cameron consulted the EU's
most powerful leader,
445
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,600
German Chancellor Angela Merkel,
446
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,960
she gave him worrying feedback.
447
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,720
I talked to her about it at length
and she said,
448
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,240
"This is not negotiable.
449
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,240
"This is something
the European Union cannot allow.
450
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,880
"The freedom of movement
is one of the four freedoms
451
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,440
"in the European Union,
of freedom of goods and services
452
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,520
"and capital and people,
and you can't do that."
453
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,720
The EU's rejection
of Cameron's demand
454
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,520
made it even more important
he had the backing
455
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,040
of his high-profile colleagues.
456
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,800
The Christmas holiday
457
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,800
provided an opportunity
for him to test the water.
458
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,240
David Cameron invited me
and my family to Chequers
459
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,440
and it was a very relaxed
family gathering. We talked about,
460
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,800
you know, shared friends,
food, football, all of the things
461
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,040
that friends would probably
talk to each other about.
462
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:38,320
I think, you know, part of
the reason we were there
463
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:43,840
was Dave reminding Michael of
what it was that he had. You know,
464
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,320
"This is who we are. This is..."
465
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,960
You know, "I'm the Prime Minister,
this is Chequers." You know,
466
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,320
"This is the environment."
467
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,280
Like a kind of subtle sort of,
468
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,360
"Do you really want to give
all this up?" sort of a thing.
469
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:57,440
We talked about almost everything,
470
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,480
apart from the looming vote
on the European Union.
471
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,720
But David, on the whole,
didn't really like talking in detail
472
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,040
about politics or policy
when he had downtime.
473
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:14,360
It might come up, uh, tangentially,
uh, but it wasn't a subject that,
474
00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:16,040
uh, he liked to address.
475
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,720
And I had my own reasons
for not really wanting to disturb
476
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,360
the festive atmosphere by bringing
up anything uncomfortable.
477
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:26,720
Dave's a very diplomatic human,
actually.
478
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,760
Uh, I've always admired
that ability.
479
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,000
And he just sort of, uh, you know,
we were sort of...
480
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,480
I think we were sort of in charge
of the children or something.
481
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,040
The others had gone away or gone for
a walk or gone for a swim.
482
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,720
I remember sitting on the sofa
talking to Sarah and asking her,
483
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,000
you know,
"I hope I'm going to be all right,
484
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,320
"that Michael will be, you know,
supporting and on my side."
485
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,200
So I just said to him, you know,
"You know what Michael's like,
486
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:54,640
"he's not scared of Europe.
487
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,160
"He thinks that Europe takes
lots of liberties, but I think
488
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,360
"he'll probably ultimately come down
to your way of thinking."
489
00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:04,040
I thought, you know, I genuinely
thought that would be the case
490
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,200
because we were close
and we'd done so much together,
491
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,160
I thought we'd be on the same team.
492
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,800
Next in Cameron's sights
was Boris Johnson.
493
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:24,080
The Mayor of London had also become
an MP at the 2015 election.
494
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,280
He'd never had a cabinet job.
495
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,960
David Cameron's point of view
in meetings, he would say,
496
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,000
"Look, we've got to try
and bind this guy in."
497
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,120
It's the old Lyndon Johnson thing of
wanting somebody inside the tent
498
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:38,320
pissing out, rather than
outside the tent pissing in.
499
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,960
The two men
had a decades-old rivalry.
500
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,760
They were both at school together,
and when, um,
501
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,160
men of a certain class say school,
what they mean is Eton,
502
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,920
and the rivalry
really started there.
503
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,280
The fact that Dave
became Prime Minister first,
504
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,960
even though he was
two years younger,
505
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:02,480
I think really riled Boris.
506
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,760
He thought that it was his turn
to be world king
507
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,920
before it was David Cameron's.
508
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,680
I wanted to have, you know, just
a personal conversation with Boris
509
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,280
without any aides
or other people around,
510
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,080
just sort of the two of us.
511
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,160
And we always talked about
our joint love of tennis.
512
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,320
Um, I had this wonderful deal
513
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,400
where I could use the American
ambassador's court
514
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:27,800
next to Regent's Park,
515
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,880
and it was a sort of peaceful place
to go for some rest and recreation.
516
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,480
I love playing tennis, and, um,
517
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,080
Dave is actually very good.
518
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,880
He's a left-hander, um...
519
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,160
Sorry, left-hander.
520
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,400
And he's very hard to beat.
I've never beaten him.
521
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,040
I think my sister Rachel
has beaten him, I'm proud to say.
522
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,200
And I've beaten Rachel,
523
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,480
so that counts as a sort of
partial victory over Cameron.
524
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,120
First of all, you know,
he did thrash me, but that's fine.
525
00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:58,640
And he then... He then said,
526
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:04,480
"Look, um, would you consider
joining us on the Remain campaign?"
527
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,320
And, you know,
"It'd be much better...
528
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:07,760
"I'd love to have you
in the cabinet,
529
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,880
"you should have a top five job."
530
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,440
And I wasn't sure
what the exact hierarchy was.
531
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,200
I knew there was, uh... You know,
532
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:19,040
I've obviously thought about it,
uh, out of pure curiosity, you know,
533
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,040
what was this job?
There's Prime Minister,
534
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,440
um, uh, Home Secretary...
Lord Chancellor, Home Secretary,
535
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,080
Foreign Secretary, uh...
That's four.
536
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,640
And what is the fifth? A mystery.
537
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,160
I didn't say which job it was.
I said, "Be in no doubt,"
538
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,560
you know, "Defence is a top five
job, for instance."
539
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,200
I wanted him, you know,
to understand
540
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:42,800
that I valued his contribution,
541
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,360
that he would be a major part
of the government going forward.
542
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,600
Being offered a top five job
by the Prime Minister,
543
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,200
it's a pretty fantastic thing.
544
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,440
So, yeah, I was interested
and excited.
545
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,640
David Cameron came back from that
tennis meeting feeling doubly good.
546
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,720
One, that he'd beaten Boris Johnson
at tennis,
547
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,840
and, two,
that he may have a concession
548
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,920
that he would actually
join the government.
549
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,360
CBI! Shame on you!
CBI! Voice of Brussels.
550
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,600
While David Cameron was fighting to
keep the Conservative Party united,
551
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,400
Vote Leave's chief strategist
Dominic Cummings
552
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,960
was already working
to sabotage this.
553
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,120
APPLAUSE
554
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,320
One of the most important things
that a government can deliver
555
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,800
is long-term economic security
and stability.
556
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,920
CBI! Voice of Brussels.
557
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,640
Come on. Come on, guys. If you sit
down now, you can ask me a question
558
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,080
rather than making fools of yourself
by just standing up and protesting.
559
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,960
We got in because Vote Leave
formed a company for us
560
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,840
and, um, we pretended
to be businessmen.
561
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:48,480
Shame on you!
562
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,960
It became clear very quickly
after the event
563
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,240
that certain people,
certain MPs,
564
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,600
really didn't like what we had done.
565
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,400
I was absolutely furious.
566
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:00,960
I'm afraid I...
567
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,560
Even now I want
politics to be noble.
568
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,480
I think politics is important.
569
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,360
They just laid into Dom
570
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,760
and said that they had to
respect David Cameron,
571
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,120
that he was the Prime Minister,
572
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,240
he was the leader
of the Conservative Party,
573
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:15,920
and how could we do this?
574
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,600
It was just an appalling neglect
575
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,560
of a fundamental requirement
of our campaign
576
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,440
that it should leave
the Conservative Party
577
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,600
fit to actually carry out
the result of the referendum,
578
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:28,920
whichever way it went.
579
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,280
Dom just turned around and said,
"You are wrong.
580
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,280
"You can either support leaving the
EU or you can support David Cameron.
581
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,040
"And if you don't like that,
there's the door."
582
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,880
I went to see Dominic Cummings
and I explained,
583
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,200
I didn't think that Vote Leave
584
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,680
could be some kind of
political terrorist campaign,
585
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,120
just blowing things up.
586
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,880
Dominic was absolutely furious
587
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,520
and he took me outside into
the stairwell and bellowed at me.
588
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,480
I'd been at work
during the day,
589
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,080
and so I went over
to the offices
590
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,000
at about six o'clock
in the evening.
591
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,960
Up I go in the lift,
up to the Vote Leave floor,
592
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,240
the doors open
as if curtains on a stage,
593
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,600
and there are two characters
on the stage looking at each other,
594
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,800
and I'm looking at them,
and they're about this far apart.
595
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,520
One is Bernard Jenkin
and the other's Dom Cummings.
596
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,040
He was shouting at me, um,
597
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,440
and very, very angry
and trying to intimidate me,
598
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:33,080
um, in an almost uncontrolled way.
599
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,400
Bernard is looking
really quite disconcerted,
600
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,520
while Dom says something
along the lines of,
601
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,720
"If you ever say something like
that to me again,
602
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,520
"I'm going to make sure you never
603
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,880
"are going to be allowed in this
office again. Do you hear me?"
604
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,040
I certainly felt his spittle on
my face, and I was just thinking,
605
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,360
"This is a very serious breakdown
in a relationship
606
00:31:54,360 --> 00:32:00,400
"and a very serious threat to
the good governance of Vote Leave."
607
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:01,720
INDISTINCT CHAT
608
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,560
From my point of view,
from that moment on, um,
609
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,280
certainly Dominic should have been
removed because what he showed
610
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,520
was that he was not willing
to be held to account.
611
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,160
And that's the recurrent theme
of all of the time I've known him.
612
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,640
It was not just Tory Brexiteers
Cummings was alienating.
613
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,440
My problem with him was that
he didn't seem to think that
614
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,760
MPs really had much, um, you know,
should have much say in anything.
615
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,440
He seemed to not understand
616
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,040
or not want to understand
that, you know,
617
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,280
what was happening
at the ground level,
618
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,960
at the grassroots level, was going
to be very, very important.
619
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,000
For Nigel Farage and his team,
620
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,120
securing a Labour MP
would be a coup.
621
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,440
The rumblings had started
within the Vote Leave group
622
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,320
about the fact that, um, you know,
623
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,640
a lot of them weren't happy
with what Cummings and Elliott
624
00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:58,960
were doing at all.
625
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,680
It was really obvious to me that you
needed to get the Labour vote out
626
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:08,200
if we had any chance
of really winning.
627
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,280
And that seemed to be something
628
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:18,240
that Leave.EU and Arron
and Andy understood better.
629
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,720
We encouraged Kate
to come and join Leave.EU.
630
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,600
We basically said,
"Yeah, leave it with us,
631
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,440
"we're going to build
the ground campaign."
632
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,920
In a move unprecedented
for a Labour MP,
633
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,280
Kate Hoey agreed to share the stage
with Nigel Farage.
634
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,480
I get up there in the morning,
there's a queue.
635
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,280
I said, "What's this for?"
And they said,
636
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,000
"Oh, this is for the campaign,
the Leave campaign.
637
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,320
"I hear you're doing a rally."
638
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,200
I said, "Yeah, but
not for another five hours."
639
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:51,760
But, yeah, we're queuing.
640
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,520
The traffic jams we caused,
it was extraordinary.
641
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,760
I said, "We hardly advertised this.
642
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,080
"We thought we were going to have
200 people.
643
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,720
"You've got 1,600 people
in that room
644
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,040
"and they're all here
to hear what you've got to say."
645
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,520
"Oh." The blood drained
from his face
646
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,200
as he realised that this is
a big deal.
647
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,800
I'd never met Nigel.
It was slightly concerning.
648
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,520
I mean, you have to remember that,
in those days,
649
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,360
there was a feeling about Nigel that
was just pretty horrible.
650
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,040
A lot of people had very, very,
very strong views about him.
651
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,240
And there was always this feeling,
you know,
652
00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:32,280
"Oh, if I go on a platform
with Nigel Farage
653
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,800
"are people are going to start
calling me a racist?"
654
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,480
She probably,
like many Labour figures,
655
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,840
thought I was Voldemort
or something like that.
656
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,120
I sat down with Kate and I thought,
657
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,000
"Well, the most important thing -
658
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,680
"don't try too hard.
Just be what you are."
659
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,200
And I think within ten minutes,
actually, we hit it off.
660
00:34:51,240 --> 00:34:54,320
The Kettering rally
was a very Trumpian kind of rally.
661
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,000
I didn't know
there was going to be music.
662
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,160
I didn't know that I was going to
have to walk up this long alleyway,
663
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,520
you know, between people cheering.
664
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,360
We are finding that people
are coming out and saying,
665
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,960
"At last,
within the Labour movement,
666
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:11,800
"there is some kind of debate.
667
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,480
"We're fed up with the Europhiles
who've been running our party."
668
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,080
It was very moving
because there was no doubt about it
669
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:25,080
that there were lots of people there
who were not, um, Tory voters.
670
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,120
Kate turned to me and said,
"These are Labour supporters.
671
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,040
"These are not
Conservative supporters.
672
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,080
"These are people who feel like
they've been left behind,
673
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,320
"let down by the political class."
674
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,480
Nigel walks in like the Messiah,
675
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,760
with all these people clapping
and standing
676
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,760
and these Tories behind us going,
"What the...?"
677
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,520
You know, this is mental.
678
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,760
How the hell is Nigel Farage
having that reaction?
679
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,520
This is so important
680
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,480
that it's not about left or right,
681
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,000
but it's about right or wrong.
682
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,880
And we know what's right
and we must win this referendum.
683
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:13,400
For Nigel, it was the first time
684
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:18,480
he had been with all party members
on a stage,
685
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:23,160
and I think he was quite emotional
about it, too, that day.
686
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,640
It was almost like that group
of people were welcoming me in,
687
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,600
albeit slightly nervously,
688
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,960
whereas the snobbier end
of the equation within Vote Leave
689
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,760
would have nothing to do with me.
690
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,400
At Vote Leave's headquarters,
unhappiness with the leadership
691
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,320
of Dominic Cummings
could no longer be ignored.
692
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,560
By this time, quite a lot
of MPs were saying,
693
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,600
"Have you got rid
of Dominic yet?"
694
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,600
There began to be
a sort of consensus
695
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,840
that something
had to be done
696
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,880
if the campaign was to be saved.
697
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,160
The result was an agreement
in general to draw up a contract
698
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:10,120
which would move Dominic away
from the day-to-day operations.
699
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:11,600
Now, it just happened
700
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,000
that I was already discussing
a contract with him.
701
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,840
It was really as to whether
he should be a contractual employee
702
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,600
or freelance operator.
703
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,280
I said, "Look, let's have
a one-to-one discussion in private."
704
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,080
I mean, it's just a normal day
to begin with. But then Dom says,
705
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,080
"The board want me to go across
the river to the other building."
706
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,280
Once we sat down and we were
looking at each other, I said,
707
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,320
"Dominic, I'm sorry, I brought you
here under false pretences."
708
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:52,640
I said, "It's not working.
You've upset too many people."
709
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,160
Came to the Vote Leave office
and something felt very different.
710
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,040
Matt Elliott, our chief executive,
came to me with a very long face
711
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,120
and said,
"Have you heard what's happening?"
712
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,760
And I said, "No. What's
going on?" And he said,
713
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,240
"Well, the board
have summoned Dominic
714
00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:08,840
"and they're going to fire him."
715
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,880
And I said, "What? This is
going to be catastrophic.
716
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,360
"We can't lose our campaign manager.
What are we doing here?
717
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,800
"Let's go over there
and do something about it."
718
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,040
By this stage, a number of senior
members had joined the meeting,
719
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,760
and I handed Dominic
a draft contract,
720
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:28,520
which actually I've got here. Um,
and it's a contractual agreement,
721
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:33,880
which made him a strategic adviser
rather than the campaign director.
722
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,600
I think this document
gave him quite a shock.
723
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:41,280
And he started texting. Clearly
texting back to his colleagues.
724
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,720
Suddenly, I'm pulled into the
corridor by our head of operations,
725
00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:49,920
who goes, "There's a coup. The board
are trying to make Dom resign."
726
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,120
Dominic was saying,
"I'm going to walk out
727
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:54,880
"and I'll take the whole team
with me." And I...
728
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,280
In that moment, I thought,
this whole thing,
729
00:38:58,280 --> 00:38:59,920
this whole thing
which I've been working towards
730
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:01,640
for the better part of 30 years,
731
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,720
is about to collapse over
some stupid personality clash.
732
00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:08,080
So we decided
that we needed to draft a letter,
733
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:13,160
making it very clear that IF they
forced Dom out, we would all walk.
734
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,280
Out of the blue,
I got a call from Dominic Cummings.
735
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,200
Dominic had been working with me
in the past
736
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,640
at the Department for Education,
737
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,600
and Dominic was
uncharacteristically agitated.
738
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,360
He was normally ice cool
739
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:28,960
in most conversations
about politics.
740
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,320
It was clear that there was
something that was up
741
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:32,640
in the campaign,
742
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:37,000
and Dominic asked me if I could,
uh, speak to a couple of people.
743
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,800
I talked to a couple of MPs
who were involved in Vote Leave,
744
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,560
and I said, "Look, I haven't made up
my mind definitively yet.
745
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,920
"David hasn't concluded
his negotiations.
746
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,160
"However, I have to tell you,
if Dominic Cummings is not
747
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,320
"playing a role in this campaign,
then I'm not going to be playing,
748
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,160
"uh, any sort of prominent role
at all either."
749
00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:01,960
Cummings' supporters had saved him.
750
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,400
I saw Dom that evening
after the attempted coup,
751
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,360
and I asked him
how he was doing,
752
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,200
and he just
looked back at me and said,
753
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,160
"We need the cavalry to arrive."
754
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,760
In early February, a draft
of Cameron's EU deal was published.
755
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,520
You couldn't get my chair up a bit?
There seems to be a kind of...
756
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,360
INDISTINCT CHAT
757
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,080
I'm sitting at my desk in City Hall
and Dave calls me up to say,
758
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,400
you know, "How's it going
with the decision-making process
759
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,400
"on the EU referendum?"
760
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,480
So I said to him, "Look,
I'm really sorry, but, you know,
761
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,480
"the way things are going, the way
my mind is moving at the moment,
762
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,040
"I think I'm going to go
with Leave."
763
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,080
I said, "Look, I know you think
that my renegotiation
764
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,560
"hasn't achieved everything
you think it should,
765
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,000
"but you've never backed
leaving the EU before.
766
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,400
"You've argued for reform,
you're a Eurosceptic, fine,
767
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,400
"but you've never argued
for leaving, so don't start now."
768
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,280
He did get a bit testy
and he said,
769
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,520
"Well, if you do that,
I will fuck you up forever."
770
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,600
And I was a bit intimidated by that
771
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,080
because, you know,
forever's a long time to be,
772
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,760
you know, fucked up by,
uh, you know,
773
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:15,360
the instruments of government
774
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,000
with all the, you know,
trained fucker-uppers.
775
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,320
I don't remember saying that but,
look, I was getting very passionate
776
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:26,160
about it because I knew that Boris
had a huge role to play in this.
777
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,560
I went back to see my family
later on that evening. I said,
778
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,520
"Well, look, you know, had a bit of
a bust-up with Dave earlier on
779
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,160
"about the EU thing."
780
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,360
Boris relayed
that Cameron had said to him,
781
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,160
"If you support Leave,
I'll fuck you up forever."
782
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,400
I thought it was...
783
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,440
..actually surprisingly weak,
in a way,
784
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,880
and I thought it was surprising
785
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,240
that they weren't
talking about the issues.
786
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,320
Marina Wheeler,
Boris Johnson's wife,
787
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,800
was celebrating
her recent appointment as a QC.
788
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,520
Is Boris at home? He's not here, no.
OK. I was hoping to persuade you
789
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,040
that you might not need
to stay around here, actually.
790
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:09,920
She had long-standing concerns
791
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,320
about the EU's increasing hold
over UK law.
792
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:19,040
David Cameron had come back saying
that he had achieved a great deal
793
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,800
by managing to exempt the UK
from ever closer union.
794
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,840
The real problem
with ever closer union
795
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,000
was that the Court of Justice
used this
796
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,040
as a way of expanding
the reach of EU law
797
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,680
and expanding
the whole scope of the project,
798
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,080
and what Cameron had achieved
in terms of agreement
799
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,200
wasn't going to touch that.
800
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,760
I've known Marina
since I was a small kid,
801
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,800
we'd both been small. She's
basically a liberal soul, right?
802
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,960
She's not a foaming xenophobe.
The absolute opposite.
803
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:01,120
As a lawyer, I began to be
more and more aware of that process,
804
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,680
of what the court was doing.
805
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,760
And I did have
that conversation with Boris.
806
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,960
I was very struck when she said
that she, too,
807
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,040
was inclined to vote Leave.
808
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,200
Personally, I felt, you know,
the country will choose,
809
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,560
you can't just keep quiet.
810
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,560
That is abrogating responsibility.
811
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:26,440
But he was coming under great
pressure to stick with Cameron.
812
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,640
I didn't particularly want to upset
the apple cart. I didn't want to,
813
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,560
you know, um...
814
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,160
..be fucked up forever.
Why? You know?
815
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,400
As Boris Johnson wavered,
816
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,240
David Cameron decided
he and George Osborne
817
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:51,400
needed to confront Michael Gove.
818
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,000
David Cameron once described
the world of politics
819
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:55,880
as being divided
into two types of people -
820
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,680
team players and wankers.
821
00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:59,960
And from David's point of view,
822
00:43:59,960 --> 00:44:04,280
I'd been a team player in the past,
so when there was a requirement
823
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,000
to fall into line
on the EU referendum,
824
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:12,200
I think he naturally assumed
that I would be a team player then.
825
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:13,640
I really remember that meeting
826
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,040
and it wasn't just a meeting.
827
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:16,560
It was a meeting of friends.
828
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,200
You know, we were people who had
lived together for ten years
829
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,960
in terms of our work,
in terms of our holidays,
830
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:24,920
you know,
we knew each other's families.
831
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,880
George and I
tried to spell out for him
832
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:32,160
what we thought the consequences
would be if he supported Leave
833
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,240
and if, as a result, Leave gained
a lot of traction and won.
834
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:39,080
I basically pleaded with Michael.
I said,
835
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,080
"If you go to the Leave campaign,
you are going to give it
836
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,240
"credibility, which it doesn't
currently have.
837
00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:47,240
"It's got a kind of
Farage tinge to it,
838
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:49,600
"which puts a lot
of respectable people off.
839
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:54,520
"Boris Johnson is going to get FOMO
and feel he has to be part.
840
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,720
"And David Cameron is going
to have to resign if we lose.
841
00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:01,040
"Don't kid yourself
that this government can continue
842
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,320
"if you've lost this big referendum.
843
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:07,400
"And everything we have worked for
is going to be shattered."
844
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,200
For me, the fundamental problem
with Britain's membership
845
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,840
of the European Union is that
laws were imposed on us
846
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,120
that we couldn't alter or change.
847
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:22,360
And European Union law for all
of the member states is supreme.
848
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,840
And I said, "Whatever your sort of
particular concerns
849
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,760
"about parliamentary sovereignty,
we are, you know,
850
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,680
"a country that needs
the economic support of the EU,
851
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,840
"and, frankly, you know,
what's going to happen if we leave?
852
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,480
"Who's going to be happy?
Vladimir Putin's going to be happy.
853
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,760
"The Chinese President's
going to be happy.
854
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,560
"And doesn't that tell you what this
really means for the West?"
855
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,680
I made it clear to them.
856
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,200
"I'm sorry. This is something
I deeply believe.
857
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,720
"I didn't want this referendum,
but now I have to make a choice."
858
00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:56,960
This was a bombshell that someone
who I was very close to,
859
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,080
was a key part of the team,
was wavering
860
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,800
and then effectively saying, "I
think I'm going to go with Leave."
861
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:06,840
For me, there was a choice between
862
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,600
staying close
to what I believed and, you know,
863
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:14,400
relative moral cowardice
and suppressing that in order to,
864
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,080
well, to safeguard
personal relationships.
865
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:27,320
A week later, Boris Johnson
invited Gove to dinner.
866
00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:31,000
I had some warning
867
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:35,520
because I cooked a pretty delicious
slow-roast lamb,
868
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:42,280
and it turned out that
the purpose of the evening
869
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:48,720
was for Boris and Michael
to discuss this impending decision.
870
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,880
I think what we were both
thinking was,
871
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,160
"Well, you know, do we want
to go through the pain
872
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,760
"of being at variance
with the Prime Minister,
873
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,360
"seeming to be difficult,
874
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,280
"being mutineers,
and then probably lose it?"
875
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,400
Uh, and then, you know, being, um,
876
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,560
cast out as splitters and,
you know, whatever.
877
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:19,240
We started off,
I think, upstairs, um,
878
00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:22,760
you know, chatting around. Then we
went downstairs to eat dinner.
879
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,120
Marina had cooked lamb
and while we were eating
880
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:31,680
and discussing the pros and cons
of our membership of the EU,
881
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,960
the phone rang.
It was Oliver Letwin,
882
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,960
who was David Cameron's
policy supremo.
883
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,040
Boris put it on speaker.
884
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,600
We were trying to sort out
this question of whether you could
885
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:49,160
somehow assert the supremacy
of UK law over European law.
886
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:53,480
Although I was trying hard not to
show that I was listening to this,
887
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:57,240
I mean, obviously I was hearing sort
of snippets of it and I thought,
888
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:01,560
"Mm." I mean, it sounded
pretty unlikely to me.
889
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:03,760
It became clear during
the conversation
890
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,640
that Britain remaining
in the European Union
891
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,240
would mean Britain continuing
to be subject to European laws
892
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:14,240
and the European Court of Justice.
We couldn't change those laws.
893
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:17,000
We'd have to accept
ever closer union,
894
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,320
whatever the deal said.
895
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,600
And that, for me, was a clincher.
896
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,640
But Michael Gove
did not tell the Prime Minister
897
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,440
he'd made his decision.
898
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,400
I'll be battling for Britain.
899
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,400
If we can get a good deal,
I'll take that deal.
900
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,640
But I will not take a deal
that doesn't meet what we need.
901
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,840
The next evening, just as Cameron
was about to announce the deal
902
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,160
he'd secured
from his EU counterparts,
903
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,160
news broke from London.
904
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,560
REPORTER:
In a blow to the Prime Minister,
905
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,680
the BBC has been told that
one of his closest cabinet allies,
906
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:17,240
Michael Gove,
will campaign to leave the EU.
907
00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:21,000
We were at the end of
an incredibly long negotiation
908
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,240
and it was a shock
that it was being done
909
00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:26,640
at the moment when I was
preparing to think
910
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,440
how I would talk to the country
about this.
911
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:32,920
CAMERAS CLICK
912
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:37,080
Now, let me say about Michael Gove.
913
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,840
Michael is one of my oldest
and closest friends,
914
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,960
so of course I'm disappointed
that we're not going to be
915
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,920
on the same side
as we have this vital argument
916
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:47,360
about our country's future.
917
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,240
Cameron returned home
to launch the referendum.
918
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,400
He called the first
Saturday cabinet meeting
919
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,400
since the Falklands War in 1982.
920
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:22,480
It felt momentous to be
walking into that cabinet meeting.
921
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,920
We're all conscious
that it was a meeting
922
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,680
that might play
a significant part in history.
923
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:34,840
There was lots of support
for the Prime Minister's deal.
924
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,520
There are other cabinet members
who made their views plain
925
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,560
that they were on the Leave side.
926
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,000
It was worrying
to hear different views
927
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,640
on one campaign that the government
was going to be running.
928
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,440
It's difficult enough in politics
929
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,160
to all follow one leader, one plan,
930
00:50:54,160 --> 00:51:00,040
and the concept of us all having
different views and picking sides
931
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,160
was going to be very different
from what we'd got used to.
932
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,080
I think the most powerful
intervention came from Michael Gove,
933
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,840
where he emphasised that he just
couldn't pass up the opportunity
934
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,280
to secure the UK's place
935
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,040
as an independent,
self-governing democracy.
936
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:17,960
I just spoke from the heart
that this was the moment
937
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,640
that Britain could choose
to be an independent,
938
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:23,640
self-governing nation.
939
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:29,320
And for me, that was, above all,
THE most important consideration.
940
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,480
Those who want to leave Europe
941
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,840
cannot tell you if British
businesses will be able
942
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,040
to access Europe's
free trade, single market,
943
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,560
or if working people's jobs
are safe,
944
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,240
or how much prices would rise.
945
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:49,560
All they're offering is a risk
at a time of uncertainty.
946
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:51,840
On Monday, I will go to Parliament
947
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:56,680
and propose that the British people
decide our future in Europe
948
00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:00,800
through an in/out referendum
on Thursday the 23rd of June.
949
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,840
When the Prime Minister
actually announced the date,
950
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:08,680
I thought,
"Holy shit, that is so soon.
951
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,080
"We've got so much to do
in order to win that referendum."
952
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:15,320
But the Leavers had a plan
immediately after that cabinet
953
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,520
and they came together very quickly.
954
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,440
I had a Jaguar XF, which
I parked up outside the house,
955
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:25,400
and the ministers came over
from Downing Street.
956
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,200
So I put The Great Escape on
and drove them over to Vote Leave.
957
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,080
I remember looking
in my rear view mirror
958
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,200
and thinking how slightly absurd
it was to see
959
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,040
four members of the cabinet crammed
into a car heading to Vote Leave.
960
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:38,760
It was a very strange moment.
961
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:45,680
Theresa Villiers,
the Northern Ireland Secretary,
962
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,400
had a government car
for personal protection reasons,
963
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:52,680
and she invited me to join her to go
to the Vote Leave headquarters.
964
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:58,440
The car journey,
it was quite quiet and solemn.
965
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,040
I think both Michael and I
966
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,800
were conscious
that these next hours, days, weeks
967
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:09,880
of the referendum could have a big
impact on the future of our country,
968
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,040
potentially, and significantly,
an impact on us
969
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:14,960
and our careers personally.
970
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,600
Michael was perhaps
not quite his ebullient self.
971
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,200
Mr Gove, tell us why you're going
against the Prime Minister.
972
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:27,480
I'm normally a relatively
ebullient person.
973
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:32,080
I was reflecting on
what a momentous decision this was.
974
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,400
Ladies and gentlemen, please join me
in welcoming Vote Leave...
975
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:39,560
CHEERING
976
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,400
It's me who opened the door and
asked everybody to welcome them
977
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,960
to the campaign. And it was
a genuine moment of joy
978
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,160
that suddenly
the cavalry had now arrived.
979
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,720
I remember watching it
with David Cameron on TV,
980
00:53:56,720 --> 00:53:58,440
just like every other citizen,
981
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,040
and it was a real shock
cos these were,
982
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,480
you know, our colleagues,
our friends,
983
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,680
in some cases
close personal friends.
984
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,080
I think that was the first moment
we realised,
985
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:11,000
"Oh, my God, this is going to be
proper kind of civil war
986
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:14,120
"inside the Conservative Party."
You know, there's something...
987
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:17,200
You know, there's something
about a civil war which is...
988
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,440
which kind of hits you here.
989
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,520
Just one person
was left on the fence.
990
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:29,560
REPORTER: Comments, Mr Johnson?
CAMERAS CLICK
991
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:34,040
That morning, I sat on the sofa
992
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:35,480
opposite the Prime Minister
993
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:36,920
trying to discuss firing the gun
994
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,560
on the campaign.
And I remember a clear moment
995
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:42,000
where David Cameron had his
BlackBerry in front of him,
996
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:44,240
and I stopped talking
and just let him read it.
997
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:46,480
And when he'd finished,
he just looked up at me
998
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:48,800
and said, "Well, it looks like out."
999
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,360
And he didn't need to say to me that
that was Boris Johnson's email.
1000
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,840
Within hours,
Johnson seemed to have U-turned.
1001
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:02,400
I was just getting bombarded
with phone calls
1002
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:06,080
from people I know and love saying,
1003
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,800
you know, "If you vote Leave,
1004
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,000
"you'll be tendering your
resignation from the human race.
1005
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:12,600
"You'll be joining," you know,
1006
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:15,400
"bigots and xenophobes
incorporated."
1007
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:17,440
So my spirit sinks, I go, "God."
1008
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,200
Then I sent another message to Dave,
1009
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:24,920
you know, recording my growing
depression about the situation.
1010
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,360
I wasn't hopeful about the
depression setting in, obviously,
1011
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:31,880
but I was hopeful that he was
really having second thoughts
1012
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,120
about supporting Leave.
1013
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,720
My advice to Boris
was to go by himself
1014
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:43,120
to our house in Oxfordshire,
in Thame,
1015
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:47,680
and write a case for Leave
and write a case for Remain,
1016
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,360
and just get it completely clear
in your own mind.
1017
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:55,720
I did, and I wrote about 1,000 words
or so, uh, for Leave.
1018
00:55:55,720 --> 00:56:00,400
And I talked to Marina
and we talked it over.
1019
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,040
It contained what I thought
1020
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:07,080
were the fundamental issues
about sovereignty.
1021
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,800
And it was clear that
some of what I'd been saying,
1022
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:12,600
um, had had an impact.
1023
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:15,200
When I sat down
to write the second piece,
1024
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,120
the best argument
I could come up with
1025
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,080
was David Cameron's deal
wasn't any good,
1026
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:21,400
but you know, it never...
1027
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,480
he was never
going to get a good deal,
1028
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,520
uh, and we might as well
just grin and bear it.
1029
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:30,560
Boris hates being on his own,
1030
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,080
so I texted him to say, you know,
1031
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:34,400
"What are you doing?"
1032
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,040
And he said, "Well, why don't you
come to Thame and have lunch?"
1033
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,320
Rachel turns up
1034
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,920
and she's brought lasagne.
1035
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:46,400
Very kind of her, I thought,
"Fantastic."
1036
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:50,240
I could sense this pent-up anxiety
and sort of tension. So I said,
1037
00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:52,000
"Why don't we go and play tennis?"
1038
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,160
So we hit balls to each other
1039
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:58,880
and I was trying to work out
his thinking.
1040
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:04,280
I said, "I don't get it.
If you want to be Prime Minister,
1041
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,200
"which you do,
1042
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:09,000
"why wouldn't you support
David Cameron,
1043
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,080
"who said he's only doing one term,
1044
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,080
"and then you'd be
the natural successor?"
1045
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:17,560
And he was saying,
"But that's not what I'm thinking.
1046
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:21,400
"I don't give a fuck
about being Prime Minister."
1047
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,720
I was getting incredibly impatient
1048
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:29,080
with arguments based on
what might happen to me.
1049
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,680
They went back inside
and Rachel Johnson,
1050
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:38,400
a committed Remainer,
read her brother's two articles.
1051
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:44,120
And I say,
"Well, it's quite obvious.
1052
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:49,320
"The column for Remain
is very powerful and conclusive,
1053
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,880
"and the column for Leave is all
about how, if we were in the EU,
1054
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:57,280
"we couldn't determine the height
of wing mirrors on our trucks."
1055
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,920
And I was like, "Is that it?
Is that the best you've got?"
1056
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,560
There was nothing in the article
for Remain except, you know,
1057
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,520
doing the right thing by Dave
and... Anyway.
1058
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,920
I remember him saying to me,
and being very struck by this,
1059
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:13,440
that he'd reread the column
for Remain and he said,
1060
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,120
"And it made me feel sick."
1061
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:19,440
At some deep level,
it is an emotional thing, you know,
1062
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,880
you either want the country
to be independent
1063
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:26,800
or you think that we should create
a federal Europe.
1064
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:37,840
You're a fraud, Nigel!
1065
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,560
I said, "It's got nothing to do with
Boris. It's about stopping Nigel."
1066
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:44,920
It was a very powerful image.
1067
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,840
It's an image, by the way,
that if you used it today,
1068
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,120
you'd probably get
very little criticism.
1069
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:53,760
David Cameron said,
"We need a shock factor."
1070
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,560
And I said to him,
"Look, we've had the shock factor.
1071
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:58,800
"Jo Cox was assassinated."
145877
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