All language subtitles for [English (auto-generated)] Salad Days Uma Decada de Punk em Washington, DC (19801990) Legendado em

You can have very powerful creative

forces in this town like movements of

art, music, whatever. You can have these

movements. So the thing about Washington

is that this is it's a it's a petri dish

of great ideas. They may not be

sustainable,

but you can always grow something here

because nobody's looking.

[Music]

DC is a small city of 400 500,000

people. The industry is government if

there is one. So what happens in

institutions, you get these little

cracks and like the people who can

escape are able to do really interesting

things. We're proud as hell of the fact

that that what's coming out of this town

is good,

you know, which when you think about,

you know, what kind of a town Washington

DC was at that point, that's kind of

that was kind of a remarkable thing. And

we knew it. Everyone knew it.

[Music]

I think that the isolation breeds

individuality.

[Music]

You already know what this song's about.

[Music]

Heat up

[Music]

[Applause]

here.

Heat.

Heat.

[Music]

I felt really like threatened by it. I

just I loved rock and roll and felt like

that was their music, this music, punk

stuff was just ridiculous. But mostly it

just was intimidating and weird. And I

remember going to parties and then

hearing,

you know, Iggy pop, you know, Less for

Life or a Ramon song or whatever. And

you start to think like, what is this

music? I'm certain and just, you know,

spending some time in pointless debates

with other friends about it, which is

what largely I think you do when you're

16, 17 years old. Um, I borrowed some

records and uh

my mind got changed. But when I heard

the Ramones and I couldn't understand

why anyone would make a record that

sounded so sonically bad cuz I was used

to ELO and the BeeGees on the radio and

Stevie Wonder, you know, where it's just

sonically pristine, but the Ramones are

going for a raw lowfi thing, which I

didn't quite understand. So I listened

to both sides of the record like

and then I found myself putting it right

back on again

and there's one song I don't want to go

down to the basement. I was like

oh yeah cuz uh a family member of mine

used to lock me in a basement.

The cramps played this show down

Georgetown University at the Hollow

Nations and that was the night I was

like cutting my hair. That was that was

it. And there's actually a point in the

show where Lux vomited on stage and I

mean a huge amount of vomit. They left

the stage and some people came out these

mops and like paper towels and they came

back out and played some more.

When we found something that was way

harder um and spoke to us really

directly and was anothetical to hippie,

we were all into that.

Heat. Heat.

But everybody was in it together. There

was no categories. We were all punk or

hardcore punk and there wasn't any oi or

it was just we're all, you know, there

wasn't very many of us. So, we kind of

had to stick together. It was like the

island of misfit toys with all the

weirdos and it was like, you know, all

the smart kids and, you know, most most

people were pretty smart that were into

it. We all found each other through hook

or by crook or you know

it was

it was the most important thing to you

was the people around you and this

little pocket that would protected

against the outside world.

[Music]

The main band at least for us me and my

friends was the Bad Brains. It's the

most amazing stuff we'd ever seen. Never

seen a band play like that. A black punk

rock band. Cool. My dad

[Music]

seen them at the Heart Art Show on 15th

Street

and um

the way that show felt and like the the

potential that was in that room just the

euphoria of the event and like the idea

that we're like, "Look, we're all doing

this together." And it was like this

incredible like, you know, energetic,

transformative

experience.

It was like all these young Caucasian

uh city kids were completely inspired by

an African-Amean band that was sort of

employing soul and reggae into their

punk rock. And um and just that that

sort of spiritual swing of the Bad

Brains knowing their reggae and knowing

knowing their their R&B and their soul

um would be something that would inspire

and and influence these bands who really

didn't have that sort of um cultural

background.

Babies are one of the most influential

bands of my life.

[Applause]

early on. It was such a tight-knit

community. It was such a tight-knit

fraternity and and everybody looked out

for each other.

Okay. I found this vehicle of expression

that I adore and now I'm separated from

my friends, you know, in in one in in

one direction and now the whole world

also wants to have a fight with me, you

know, and we are we're little and we're

not fighters, you know. We're like we're

the sensitive boys um

putting on this armor.

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

We were always in Georgetown.

Um because some of us worked there.

Uh I would say most of us. And then uh

but when you weren't working, there was

nothing else to do. So you just hang

out, wander around, and go to the same

bunch of record stores and then go sit

in front of the 7-Eleven. It was like

this strip like all the suburban kids

would drive their cars up and down like

M m in Wisconsin and it was just you

know just crawling and yelling out the

windows and so forth and

um and there was legitimate threats. you

know, there was uh there was not very

many of us um

sort of immediately reviled by just

about any uh kind of um

segment of of society.

I got my ass kicked by three guys who

were probably in their mid30s,

grown men. So, obviously grown men, you

know what I mean? Kick the [ __ ] out of a

teenage kid. And this was every [ __ ]

day.

This redneck guy is walking down the

street and he sees us and he's like,

"So, what the, you know, what's up with

that? What are you guys doing?" Blah,

blah, blah. And, you know, we're

terrified.

In the late '7s, there was a uniformity

in sort of the way people presented

themselves visually. There's a

uniformity in what the way people

behaved or acted or the music they

listened to or the the way they

navigated the tra trajectory of life.

And if you were to step off of that

pattern, it look different or whatever

was to immediately set yourself up as

the enemy.

Cuz it really started getting into a

thing where within two or three blocks

some sports car drives by with some

eagle on on the hood with a track tape

of Boston blaring or Kansas or whatever

and someone's mouthing off and you just

have to go, okay. But the car's pulling

over and these guys are getting out and

they're hyperventilating. They're like

like you like you threw an egg at them

or something. Like you've called them

out. Just your appearance has questioned

their masculinity and now they have to

confront you.

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

And I remember this one day we were

walking through Georgetown and we're at

the very beginning of of Georgetown. And

we we stopped in Hogenas where Henry

Rollins worked. And he's like, "Well,

hey, it's been getting kind of weird

lately. Like, if you want to if you need

to run in here, if somebody's like

chasing or anything, feel free to like

come in. I got your back." We're like,

"That's really cool." Cuz Henry is big

and scary. And yeah, that's awesome cuz

that would be really helpful. And we

went down the street and Ian was working

over at Georgetown Theater, you know,

and said the same thing like, "Hey, if

you if you know, if you ever need any

help, just swing by." And then we went

to a record store that we used to always

go to, Penguin Feather, and Danny

Ingram, one of the older guys that we

actually kind of knew, said the same

thing. And we were so I just remember

that day feeling so

relieved. They're like, "Okay, there's

there's some people who kind of have our

back because it's it was it was

intimidating." You know,

why is that looking at me looking

through

you older white guys and and Camaros who

would just jump out on you and they'd

beat you up and then they'd say, "We're

the punk beaters and we're we're going

to be back tomorrow. We're going to find

you. We're going to get you." You know,

so we thought, "Okay, we need to deal

with this." So, a bunch of us got

together and

Alec at the time was 14 maybe um May 15

and he had

bright bleached hair and very, you know,

decidedly punk looking. So, we had him

go like a block ahead of us or half a

block ahead of us and there's like eight

or 10 of us just walking behind him

hoping that he would draw out. We just

would walk. We just walked for hours

looking for those guys.

And you just got good at hauling off and

hitting someone where you because I I

wasn't really born and raised to do

this. I'm a guy from Northwest. I went

to private school. This is really isn't

part of my metabolism, but it became it.

The turning point for me

was when The Clash played at the Ontario

Theater and I got to go backstage

afterwards and I was hanging out with

Joe Strummer and Mick Jones and and Paul

Simnon. We were all sitting upstairs at

the Ontario Theater and we're talking

and Joe Stormer said, "Oh man, you got

to get in the band, you know, man. You

got to get off the sidelines and do

something. You got to be a part of it.

[Applause]

There was this mythos then that in order

to be in a band you had to be like Jaco

Ptorius or something and rejection of

that was a big part of what created the

DC scene.

We decided to do a band and Mark was a

singer. He had been in a couple of

bands. Jordy was played guitar. Jeff had

been in Tony in the school orchestra. So

he became a drummer and I could play

Smoke in the Water on one string. So I

became a bass player. Not only did it

not really matter whether we were good

or not, I also just didn't care. So we

called ourselves the Slinkies, which we

thought was sort of absurdest. I mean,

and we said that we called ourselves

Slinkies because we love Twinkies

cuz we had a lot of junk food then. Then

Mark went off to college

and we need to get a new singer. I'm

pretty sure

the night that I went to go see the

B-52s

at the bayou in 1979

that Nathan was there and I ended up

hanging out with him and asked if he

wanted to sing in the band and that's

how the Teen Idol started. We played our

first show in December of 79.

I was doing you know we were doing in

the basement what you know the records I

were buying was doing and then to you

know be able to share it with people I

was just excited. We would go see Skip

Gra's record store yesterday and today

like almost every weekend. Skip had a

record label, Limp Records, and he knew

how to, you know, I'll get you into a

studio. I can help you get a record

pressed. And when the Teen Arnolds

really had songs, they have a bunch of

songs. And all of a sudden, there were

at some point Ian and his bandmates come

up with the idea we should make a

record, which was very daunting, like a

studio. So then Skip said, "I can take

you to this studio called Inner Ear down

in Arlington with this guy Don Zinta."

When it came time uh to take the Teen

Idols into the studio, he asked me, you

know, if I would help out because they

knew I had produced the Slicky Boys

earlier and in the early '7s had

produced Pentagram, so they knew I knew

a little bit about the studio. We had

done the Slicky Boys record at and some

of the other early limp things at Don

Zintar's Inner Ear studio. and he said,

"I'll bring down this band called the

Teen Idols."

They were young guys. They didn't know

what to expect.

And I certainly didn't know what to

expect at all. Cuz when they started

playing, it was almost like, "Oh my

gosh, what is this?

Go

[Music]

back.

In that time there was, you know, you

can imagine the amount of interest there

was in the world for

an obscure teenage punk band that had

broken up. So, it wasn't as if people

were clamoring to get the record. Having

said that,

Jeff's design for the cover was pretty

bold. And I think that in terms of the

punk world, it caught a few eyes. People

were curious about it. But by the time

the Tile come out, you know, My Thread

had already formed.

So I was already working on that. And

then SOA, you know, they formed. They

recorded two weeks after they played

their first show. And then they recorded

again in February. And then Henry was

like, I'm going to put out a record. He

didn't want to wait. You know, he had

the S SOA record out couple months

later.

[Music]

[Music]

I bought in my eyes and I and I thought

it was just like incredible. like I just

thought it was just one of the most

immediate and uh just kind of powerful

records I had heard. And so I went back

to the store and bought the first minor

threat record and I bought the S SOA

record and I bought the youth the youth

brigade record and and then Douglas Bull

came on there, you know, and within a

year there's a succession of these

records that were on this label and I

got really sort of into it.

Yeah.

I love my

heart.

We never will.

[Music]

Ian and I uh and some others a year

after high school moved across the river

to Arlington, Virginia and got a house,

Discord house.

You know, Jeff, I met Jeff in high

school and we be became pretty quickly,

you know, best friends and pretty

inseparable early on. There's certain

aspects of our personalities that are

like when combined are incredibly

creative and constructive, but there's

other aspects of our personality. Those

same things maybe at a different angle

are really like, you know, explosive.

You know,

we're both very stubborn.

I think he can be rigid.

Uh, you know, we both good friends, love

each other, but it's amazing that we're

still working together because we're so

different. We've definitely wanted to

kill each other at many points over over

the years.

I think probably we were up each other's

we were in too much. You know, we had

the record label. We were in minor

thread together. You know, we were best

friends. We lived in the same house. Uh,

so we did a lot of time together.

So, Discord, the group house was where

Discord was located. And Jeff had his

room where he had his desk where he did

all the graphic design. And then there

was that funny little porch area that

was like the office where Ian worked. So

that was where Eddie Janney who lived in

that built house. I mean the room behind

that office worked doing mail order and

then I'd come and do mail order and then

Amy Pickering started doing mail order.

So it was all in the house for years.

[Music]

We put our first record out in December

of 1980.

And the first time that we actually paid

ourselves was 1988. They purposely

priced their records as low as they

possibly could, which was great. It

meant a lot of people were able to buy

the records, but it also meant that they

had some they had some tough times

financially.

I'd send just money like a $5 bill and

an envelope. you know, I didn't or never

sent a check or anything. And I remember

once

they didn't have one record that I

ordered, but the um Flex Your Head had

just came out, so they sent me that

instead. And they just said, "Okay,

here's this new record, and you owe us $

250." Cuz it was $5 instead of 250. I

thought that was really cool.

Nobody else.

[Music]

Also, the fact that they were doing it

in this very homemade way um where the

the record covers were handfolded and

stuffed into little poly bags. And the

fact that they were doing it that way, I

think probably helped a number of other

people to realize like, oh, you know,

they don't want to put out my record.

I'm going to put it out myself then. Um,

it's not that hard to do.

You know, the reason that I'd say 99% of

independent record labels are ever

started is because you've got somebody

in a band whose band isn't yet good

enough to be on another label. So, if

you want that record to get out, you

better put it out yourself. The thing I

got from Discord is that they were

putting out their friends music. Even

though we did put out records by people

from New York, it was like bands that we

had played shows with or something that

I became friends with. Um, so I

definitely liked that whole that whole

thing of, you know, a group of friends

releasing records together.

[Music]

[Music]

There was never a shortage of records

coming out of DC in the8s. And I and I

think that largely had to do with the

fact that people were inspiring one

another to to, you know, start their own

bands, uh, start their own record

labels, book their own shows. It was

really u this time where you just felt

like you were on the ground floor of

something and you wanted to contribute

in some kind of meaningful way.

[Music]

Why do you think Boyd's legacy is still

so strong? Is it because you are

awesome?

It must be that. I I have I honestly I

have no idea whatsoever. I mean, we

almost shouldn't have even been a part

of that whole thing anyway. So, that to

me is the big anomaly how we were even

ever on Discord.

They seemed really,

I guess, normal or straight guys, you

know, they didn't have a punk look

entirely. Uh and then the music they

made, the energy that they

not just exuded, like exploded,

uh was insane.

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

doing the the the split was really funny

because nobody knew what the other guys

were doing, you know, with the we didn't

know what Floyd was going to come up

with. They didn't know, you know, it

just um came together the way it came

and much like the music. I mean, we knew

what they sounded like, but it um what

was we just completely, you know, it's

we loved each other's bands and wanted

to do something. And uh I think it was

Ian, it was like, look, you know, we've

you've got this recording, it's not

quite long, you know, we could make a

record with it, you know, an album, but

it could also fit on one side, and

they've got this thing that's could fit

on one side. It was unimaginable then

certainly that that decades later is

still a conversation like which side's

better.

But this one

it it is like the missing length to

you know this and everything else. It's

um

it's such a perfect little moment and

and it's beautiful that it died, you

know, and that's the sort of thing that

that I think is also kind of amazing

about DC bands is they they didn't last

long.

To me, the Faith were just like

emblematic of just like, you know, the

most core of hardcore coming out of DC.

Heat. Heat.

and they kind of totally lived up to it.

And for me, these guys were like, you

know, for me it's like seeing Led

Zeppelin by if you're a Led Zeppelin

freak and seeing Led Zeppelin at

Nebworth in 72 or something. I was like

seeing the faith that great

Gildersley's.

[Laughter]

[Music]

I mean, there's always been um

critique of Discord because it's, you

know, what he and Jeff wanted to

release. I mean, they're documenting

their little music scene. Uh there were

definitely bands that um ended up not

fitting into the Discord

model or or becoming part of part of our

stable or our or our circle of friends.

And I can definitely see how some people

would complain that that you know we

were exclusionary and that we sucked the

oxygen out of the scene or you know and

I can see how that would be very

frustrating but what you know what were

we supposed to do about that?

[Music]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

Part of the reason part of the the fuel

for this label was people kept were

making fun of us and then we felt

excluded. So we're like, "Well, [ __ ] it.

We'll do our own thing." So we just did

it. So why would I stop from someone

else from doing their own thing?

I don't I didn't want to own the scene

here. I just wanted there to be a scene.

[Music]

DC only. I just want to do it that way.

I just want to keep doing I want to

document this music here. Like I just

wanted to be I want people to say like

if it's oh Discord that's a DC thing.

You know some people might say well that

was um

a bad business move. But I think if you

exist for a third of a century,

that's probably a good [ __ ] business

move,

right?

I'm not going anywhere. I quit your

[ __ ] race.

[Music]

[Music]

Ian is a very practical person. He

doesn't like bells and whistles. He

really doesn't. And so everything about

Discord was a somewhat austere. It's all

very utilitarian

but easy to understand and very

difficult to corrupt.

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

The idea that teen teen idols would play

shows where teens basically couldn't

come in is insane. So, we just said we

our shows have to be open to all all of

our people. All the kids have to be able

to come in. We got we got banned from so

many clubs for it and we didn't play

other clubs, you know, because they were

doing age limits. The summer of 1980,

the Teen Idols took a bus across the

country to play in Los Angeles and San

Francisco. We played Mabooh Gardens and

there they let kids in, but they just

put a big black they put a black X on

the back of your hand so you wouldn't

drink. So we came back and we went to

Dodie at the 9:30 club um and said look

you know we want to see shows we're not

going to drink.

There was this kind of sense of tension

yet I was doing the shows. So at a

certain point I said okay look what do

you guys want? You know what what do you

want? And Ian said let's have a meeting.

We said we just want to see the bands.

And I said so just put X's on our hands.

I said, we said like if anyone you see

anybody with an extra hand drinking, 86

them. In fact, we'll put the X's on our

hands for you and we will spot we'll

we'll like knock kids out because for

us, we were trying to change. We wanted

to have access to the music. Hey

Barkeep, if you see anyone with a big

set of X's on their hands, don't serve

them. Wait, watch me do this myself.

There. I am not of age. Got it? Could it

be more obvious?

The idea that this was a this was sort

of like this new gang on the scene and

and their intention was to sort of like

you know to

kind of take care of themselves and have

this kind of um

you know this pro self-responsibility

kind of uh measure. I thought that I

thought that was radical into itself.

But you know, it's worth pointing out

like even when I was a kid, before punk

rock, like I didn't drink, right? And I

would go to parties in high school and

people like, "You're making me feel

weird cuz you're not drinking."

They call me the group conscience. Our

consumption of music had nothing to do

with consumption of alcohol as a

philosophy, as a a thing that people

uh chose to do in their lives or

whatever. Straight Edge came later. The

thing about that that I like the most is

not that like alcohol is good or bad for

you. The thing that I think Ian Mai

wants people to take to take from it is

that rock and roll shouldn't be dictated

by

clubs that want to sell drinks.

[Music]

For me, the biggest misconception about

uh DC punk rock is that uh Straight Edge

was the law and the rule of the land and

that uh this one minor threat song has

defined an entire uh basically the

entire region and all bands within. uh

when it was really uh a song off an EP.

You know, if if if it was true that

everyone in the DC punk scene in the 80s

didn't drink, smoke, or [ __ ] we would

not be punk rock. We would be monk rock.

If I had written the song straight, it

would definitely not be a movement

because I would have said like, you

know, I've gotten say high sometimes.

It's a pretty great feeling, but you

know, and then I realized I don't want

to get stoned all the time. probably

it's like it would definitely not have

become a [ __ ] anthem or something

like you know it was it took Ian's like

you know the drugs suck I'm never going

to do it

[Music]

like you I got to do my

[Music]

[Applause]

uh were like, "Oh god, straight edge."

Cuz this was like 1982, but like already

it had just become like such a a thing

pinned to anybody that was from DC that

you're going like, "Jesus, enough with

this." Like we're so sick of hearing

about it. I mean, I still get I get

crank calls to this day from kids going,

"Hey dude, I'm drunk. Is that freaking

you out?" You know, I'm 50. I got kids

still kids to two days ago I got a crank

call from my kid saying like you know

never liked your [ __ ] band because

you're straight edge

[Music]

well the whole straight edge movement uh

I think started out with good intentions

but um it sort of became uh another way

to divide people.

I remember doing an interview and

somebody asked us if we were part of

that straight edge movement when I just

said, "Well, no, not really. I think

we're a little more bent edge, you And

then all of a sudden I started hearing

bent edge all the time. But you know I

think when the straight edge thing

started to happen

that's when it kind of split and it

seemed like all the sort of malcontents

you know and um um

more of the the guys who like to do

drugs and drink and all that stuff. They

sort of drifted to us and that became

like we became their their band, you

know.

[Applause]

[Music]

I think when when uh the straight edge

came around that kind of that really

split everybody into two different am I

in this camp or am I in that camp? I

mean, I still love your music, but do I

show up there because I've been drinking

or do I show up there because I haven't

been drinking, you know? And so that

kind of that that's when that's when for

me the whole punk community started

going its own way.

I mean, I can't say it was an innocent

gesture, but it was it was a benevolent

gesture, you know, and

the repercussions were a phenomenon.

Punk musicians that grew up here um

generally lived on the on the high

ground. They lived in the better part of

town. their parents were um

were making a good living doing some

kind of white collar business work.

You know, a lot of our parents were

pretty well educated people and I think

supported us a lot. People perceived a

lot of the DC bands as as I don't know

maybe being spoiled brats and things.

Um,

but there was a certain work ethic I

think that that was really there and a

really high standard.

[Music]

If anything, I think that there was a

sort of a a pretend thing like, well,

punk should be working class, you know,

what about all those guys in England on

the dole and New York seems tough. You

know, there was a bit of a pose, I

think, with a lot of kids saying, oh,

we're we're not that rich. you know,

that's that's an old car.

The rich kids who came to it, you know,

kind of took risks because it was like

if it doesn't work, you know, I can go

back to college and get a degree and be

successful.

DC was this weird city that like the

government is like the main business,

which is the government is like in an

institution. So what happens in

institutions, you get these little

cracks and like the people who can

escape, you know, are able to do really

interesting things.

[Music]

When you think about these these kids

that are coming into the scene and who

had and who had spent, you know, a lot

of their formative years in this town,

these were years that there was a lot of

social change going on, a lot of really

big social upheavalss were happening.

Civil rights, changing gender roles, um,

Vietnam.

This town is ground zero for all that.

[Music]

[Music]

You had these areas of Northwest that

were, you had never really recovered

from the riots in ' 68. So you had, you

know, block after block of just boarded

up storefronts.

People that would go to see a show at

the 9:30 or DC space. Those streets were

pretty empty. You know, they rolled up

the sidewalks at night. I mean, it's,

you know, this is a government town.

Everybody works for the government. And

you know, once the government offices

closed, everybody went home.

And to have the city to yourself at

night, you kind of reveled in that cuz

it looked cool. the street lights. It

was yours. And you go, "Okay, well, this

will be mine. I'll be the night shift

guy. I'll, you know, you can do your

thing by day and at night I'll come out

and I'll be the subterranean guy." Like,

"Come on, we're we're clear." the DC

hardcore scene, the DC punk rock thing

could not have happened unless you had

that that desolation, that decay and

that that crime that kept a lot of

people out of the city. Because what

happened was it made it such that the

only people that would go into these

areas where these venues were and where

the bands were playing were people who

were willing to take risks and people

who were in it because they wanted to

see something happen. They wanted to see

something spring up from nothing.

[Music]

Kids on the street got

there was the feeling that everything

was had sort of spun out of control in

the city in the 80s. Uh crack came to

town and kind of changed the landscape

of of crime in the district. homicides

went up to uh at one point over 400

homicides a year in a in a city that's a

pretty small city in terms of it's not

New York or Los Angeles. Okay.

[Music]

So this trajectory of the city was like

this. Crime was like that. People were

leaving town. The city by the 1980s had

lost a 100,000 people for since the

early 60s.

It's a city a city in such deep denial

that you know you've got crack deaths

and and crack homicides all over the

place and the city spiraling out of

control and the mayor is smoking crack

in a hotel with a [ __ ] which is the

least scandalous part.

By the late 80s it was getting to be not

officially bankrupt but morally

politically it was bankrupt.

[Music]

Go go go go go

was one of those wonderful things in DC

cuz it's so local to the 20273 or 301

area code and so many punk rockers I

knew had no problem with with go don't

go don't go don't go don't go don't go

don't go don't go don't go don't go

don't go like trouble funk oh yeah yeah

yeah yeah yeah you know the horns were

great the the you know the bass was a

lead instrument and the the the drums

that just went on forever. The beat

became just as important as the song.

The go- go scene was a big influence, I

will say, because it was totally

independent indigenous form of music to

DC.

Everybody was smiling. It was, you know,

I think the black kids were like just

going, "Look at them kids jumping up and

down was like goof." And then the white

kids were just doing the butt or

whatever.

It's kind of funny to say that go- go

and punk joined together because they

really didn't. You know, the go- go

people were never really interested in

punk. But the punks dug the go- go.

Like the first time we met Henry, the

first time we met Ian, the first time

all these different people when they

would come from DC, they'd start telling

us about this go-go scene and like and

at the time like you didn't really hear

that stuff down here, you know? That

just it was it was definitely it was

almost like the New Orleans brass band

stuff with all the kids doing it there.

Listen

[Music]

up. We got the group.

I have to say that time especially was

just not a welcoming place for a teen

white teenage boy. And one guy walked up

and he walked past us and as an aside

went, "Y'all crazy." And once everyone

understood that we know where we are. We

know the odds, but we're still here. We

paid our money. We're here to see

trouble. punk and it's almost

collectively the entire crowd went nice.

It reminded me of early punk rock. This

this just these throngs, everyone moving

in the same direction. It was a great

collective. It was a great energy and

the music was awesome. And uh I still

love it. I I cannot believe it isn't the

soundtrack for, you know, the entire

world.

[Music]

I I always wanted to play a trouble funk

and I thought they said we could do a

show trouble funk on my thread. So that

was the first show that was the first

like the go-go punk extravaganza and my

threat's last show.

[Music]

The big boys were awesome. And

the Myers Threat came on and right from

the get-go,

something was wrong.

I don't think it was meant to be a

farewell show or their finale or

anything. It was just that it was

getting to a point where they were

starting to have a lot of people

disrespect them. And when they played,

it was just so out of control. It was

really sad. I don't remember it being a

particularly like I I wonder if maybe

people's recollections a little bit

sepia tone frankly because I don't think

of it I didn't think of it as being such

a sad night. I just remember not having

a really good time and I don't think

anything sounded right and I don't I

know I didn't enjoy myself and it was

just kind of a weird show in an empty uh

department store, you know, a condemned

department store rather.

I did I I suspected in my heart I was

like this is going to be the last show

because we just were fighting too much

and I was sick of them. Playing those

songs on stage with them in front of any

audience was

absolutely incredible

and being off stage

was not very much fun. Um, they really

didn't get along. We fought all the the

whole time. I mean, as kids do. I got

very tired of uh

of of being a band that that either was

preaching that

uh about uh don't do this, don't do that

or just perceived as that and and that

definitely caused some friction in the

band

and then they quit. I remember I came

home that a note saying like we broke

with the band.

There may have been a note. I will

accept that there was a note. Uh because

that's something that Lyall and I would

have done.

Yeah. So then I said, "Fuck you. You

can't break up the band like this. We

have to have a meeting and break up

together." So they we had this meeting

and they laid laid out their demands. I

said, "I reject your demands." And I

think that our demands uh were that we

wanted to be

a

more commercially

viable

band.

[Music]

Everything I got is

you know I drive I keep it short. I know

it's a new

Yeah. With minor threat breaking up. We

just really didn't know what the future

was at all. Punk rock had become bigger

in general and the music scene had

stopped being this sort of uh

predominantly insular little local set

of friends at the core of everything.

That's when the pit wasn't fun anymore.

It wasn't a good time. It wasn't people

falling off and their friends catching

them. It was a lot of aggro stuff going

on. you know, people dancing in, you

know, people thinking this is the way

I'm supposed to dance with my arms

pounding, you know, anyone in front of

me. That's where the whole thing turned

on its head for me.

So-called slam dancing, whatever that

was had become a behavioral ritual. Had

nothing to do with music. But almost

more problematic was that it had become

a mask for violence. I remember a show

at the Wilson Center where we were

playing and some skin heads were hurling

abuse at Monica while she was singing

and I just jumped out from behind my

drum set right in the middle of it and

jumped down in the crowd and challenged

them to fight. There are a lot of people

now who would pretend like the DC scene

was not at all misogynistic, that it was

all kumbaya and we all just loved each

other and we were all accepting. But the

truth of the matter was it was a boy

club. As far as uh their women's uh

place in creating uh radical music, I

was fully in embrace of it. But as far

as the realistics of how it expressed

itself in in our in our little world

that we were creating, uh I was a little

I was a little bit uh dull to to the

implications of uh how we were

conducting ourselves.

When it when it started out, I really

felt disrespected. I really felt like I

wasn't taken seriously because I was

just a girl singer. You know, I I had a

song about rape um in Madhouse. And when

I would bring that up and I'd say, "This

song is about rape." Have the kids in

the in the audience screaming, "Fuck

you." They thought, "Oh, no, we're not

sexist." And they had to take a look

because if so many of us women were

saying, "There's something wrong here.

We're noticing these differences. We are

not getting the encouragement and

support that we need." And how can we

change things on this bigger level if we

can't change things right here in our

community

in terms of the way women or girls were

treated in this scene? Like we were

first off, we were teenagers and

teenagers did stupid things. No doubt

about that. It's like people are trying

to figure out how the [ __ ] works.

That's the way it is. And people do

things in that process that are

unggainainely for sure. as far as a

animosity or some kind of juvenile

behavior towards women, you know, well,

at that point in time, we were pretty

much juveniles, so who's surprised at

the behavior?

I think a lot of these kids were um sort

of uh somewhat pre pre-exual. I mean, I

think they were sexual, but they they

had not had um they hadn't get they

didn't get laid yet. And as soon as they

did, they kind of like I think the scene

changed.

[Music]

I arrived in August of 1984, which meant

bad brains, not only had they moved, but

they had broken up. Minor threat had

broken up. What was around was a skin

head gang.

Like in 1984, there was like problems

all around the country with these with

skin head kids. At this point, I had I

had been a fighter, you know, until

about 19 early 1984. I just I think it

was around 84. I remember just thinking

talking to some skin heads and saying

like I go, "Why are you doing this?" I

said, "Because you that's what you do."

And I was like, "Oh, okay." Like

violence begets violence. It's so

obvious.

[Music]

Um, and then of course there was this

whole street punk kind of what was

called derisively the drunk punk scene

around Dupont Circle of lots of

runaways. Some of the skin heads hung

out there. There was anti-gay violence

going on. um queer bashing as they

called it. Um there were lots of drugs.

Um it was really dark. It was really

depressing.

[Music]

There was tons of violence all the time.

Um, tons of skin heads, tons of idiot

drunk punks.

I hear people say like the scene died.

What I think the love and the actual

like camaraderie died cuz people

didn't, you know, stay focused on the

music.

And there was a point where I think a

lot of the people who'd been around for

a while just got this overall feeling

like this just really sucks. This is not

fun. These are not the type of shows

that are fun to play. They're not really

the type of shows that are fun to go to.

It's always that careful what you wish

for. What we were dealing with there was

a huge influx from the mainstream

coming, you know, people coming in from

the suburbs. They wanted, we were out

putting out albums, flyers. We wanted

people to buy them and then they showed

up and everybody was like, "Well, I

don't know if I want this. Not these

people.

[Music]

We were writing songs for us and our

friends and now and and playing shows

where we knew everybody who was showing

up. And by that time point we didn't

know these people anymore. And that by

that point we started writing almost to

make fun of the scene and to have fun

with the scene because it wasn't our

scene anymore. It was just the scene and

hearing about all these problems and all

these infightings and all these opinions

coming out and what we should do and

what other people should do and what was

right and what was wrong. And we would

just stop doing any of that. We wouldn't

dress in the punk rock uniform. Well,

Stab never did. And I decided to be like

David Letterman of Hardcore. Like, I

would just be as sarcastic as humanly

possible. And it'd be just like, here's

another like new song, but like like

every other GI song, it's slammable

[Music]

every day. your car.

I mean, it's weird. It's weird to me

when people talk about punk rock and in

this kind of evangelical terms like it

saved their life or it changed their

life because

it's not very punk, you know, to talk

about it in those ways. But, um, it's

unequivocally true. Like, I wouldn't,

you know, there's times when I think

like, wow, I didn't even know how to

like talk to people. It was a complete

180 from

[Music]

my understanding

of of the world prior to,

you know, going to shows.

I was part of that third or fourth wave

of kids that came into the scene right

after Minor Threat broke up. And, you

know, I think this I think there were

some growing pains. I think the scene

was, you know, getting bigger and

bigger. But for me, I had no context for

that. It was, you know, I didn't know

what had come before. For me, it was

just this, you know, amazing music. And,

you know, I was this 12-year-old kid

that was just wideeyed and just open to

everything that was happening. And I was

lucky enough to have it in my backyard.

One of the cool things about the DC

scene is that it was like accessible

superheroes, you know, like the people

that were on stage were also like in the

audience at shows. You could be right up

next to the stage. You could get on the

stage. You could sing along.

I dove straight, you know, head first

into the whole scene and did a fan scene

called Metro Zene about what was

happening locally.

Any little bit of hope that I saw in

this scene, I would grab on to it like a

a life preserver. And at that point,

Metroine was one of those. I was working

in a record store and he just I get this

call from this sounds like a real little

kid and he asks me if um he can use my

photos in his fine and I didn't know who

he was. he sounded so young and I was

just like, I don't know, you know, I

thought I'd have to go in the dark room

and make him print and stuff and he was

just like, no, I can cut up your fan

zene and just paste it into mine, you

know. And I was like, sure, knock

yourself out, kid.

Scott was everywhere. I feel like I must

have seen him at every show I ever went

to. And there was a lot of people

recording things for posterity and

knowing that something big was was in

the process of happening and that they

needed to to know what it was and write

it down and interview people. Um, but he

was so young.

Hey, did you enjoy the show?

Yeah.

Excellent.

Great.

One of the first people I interviewed

was Ian, and at that point, he was in

between bands. Um, and he was pretty

down on what was going on. And it was it

was really an interesting point in the

in the scene at that time because he

didn't know what was going to happen

next.

Really, Fanzines were the only way to

find out about stuff back then. And you

know, I was taking photos and then when

I discovered punk rock, I just started

taking photos of all the bands. Just

wanted to document this new really

exciting thing that I found. And then,

you know, I wanted to share the photos

after that. So, I started a fan zene.

Um, I called it zone 5. And it was

primarily a photo zene, but there were

interviews with bands and uh scene

report from from New York. It was just

this awesome community of kids all over

just doing stuff. And I really think the

DIY DC thing really gave us all

permission to just, you know, go do it.

You know, it was like, as I recall, it

was like there was a lull. Like the

hardcore thing had kind of happened for

us. And we all had a lot of energy. And

you know, also, you know, the the people

on this scene are just brilliant,

energetic, creative people. And we're in

our 20s and no one seems intent on

having a career of any kind. I miss you.

I miss you.

[Music]

Things had changed for all of us and we

were all like 18. We're about to

graduate from high school. We were

starting to just feel the pressure of

like, you know, now what? the bands who

were playing, you know, were sort of

less like saying what they what they

think, you know, this is what we think

about. This is what we we uh observe and

we we comment on. And now they were

starting to sing about how they feel.

Now, we were all getting older and we

were getting smarter and more mature.

And I think so many of us just started

getting really disillusioned as,

you know, the audiences got bigger and a

lot of people that wanted those shows to

be a different experience.

We just all kind of like had everybody

was like fed up with the whole kind of

violent aspects of the scene, I think.

And that's when I think that

conversation really opened up. The DC

Department of Recreation had a program

called summer like a summer summer

employment program. We had access to

this Xerox machine and we would just

make goofy posters and that's how

Revolution Summer actually came about.

Chris Thompson made a flyer. It was like

a lunch meet. I think we were playing

rights of spring and he put like

Revolution Summer on there and I

remember seeing it and thinking like

well that's a pretty strong claim. As

far as my take on on Revolution Summer,

a lot of it was a reaction to our music

scene kind of falling to crap.

If you're really if you're really into

uh marijuana and having stuff like that

on you, if you go over to the other

stage tomorrow, there's going to be dumb

stupid smoking sounds and rednecks all

over the place. You'll feel right at

home.

Come here tomorrow.

They're going to be all over the [ __ ]

lawn over there tomorrow listening to

the Beach Boys if that's where you fit

in, man. Go.

Yeah. Hey, look man.

Hey, get this guy right. Okay,

we're either here for rock against

Reagan, Rock against racism. Right up

your [ __ ] hand, man. Run against

racism. Come on, raise it up. Oh, this

is a lot more of a problem than your

[ __ ] self-indulgent drug habit. So,

why don't you get your [ __ ]

priorities straight, you [ __ ]

[ __ ]

[Music]

Son of the gun

taking all the way

know how many days you can take my mind.

Well, I know what kind of picture you're

better than me.

And it just sort of like gave everyone

this new energy.

And in that was a whole new wave of

music that was unlike the music before.

So the great thing about Revolution

Summer was all the bands that sort of

came together at that point were all

different musically. You know, I think

they were challenging themselves. um you

know musically, stylistically, but I

also think they were challenging the

audiences.

[Music]

Revolution Summer was something where um

you know it's the power of the mind you

know it's like the power of ideas to

move and change things. We all had that

consciousness that it was time for

revolution.

[Music]

Maybe I use the word moral compass or a

positive energy to it that um really

trademarked the DC scene is what I think

Revolution Summer brought back and what

um made it special for a lot of people

that there is

a power and grace in standing up for

what you think is right and in taking

action. It was really just

uh it's hard to hard to put words around

it because it's a feeling. It was it was

um

[Music]

Was this a time that changed me forever?

Absolutely.

My life is dated.

You know, my birthday is in 1959,

but my life started again in 1985.

Um, and I'm not ashamed to say that.

Revolution Summer, you know, some people

thought it was hyperbole. For me, it was

not. I began again.

[Music]

I can't stop.

[Music]

Well, I mean, Revolution Summer, I felt

like, well, we were probably out on tour

when it happened, so we missed it. We

missed it.

I think a lot of a lot of the bands that

are associated with with Revolution

Summer, it was sort of like, let's play

for each other again. Let's let's do our

own thing and everybody else can kind of

piss off. That was the one po part where

I felt that there was some irony because

here here it is this scene has sprung up

ostensibly one of the reasons why it

sprung up is to as a reaction um and a

counterpoint to this violence in the

scene. But my personal experience was

that there was more once that whole

scene had started up. there was this

sort of general sense that you know okay

you don't want us fine so they would

come to our shows or scream shows or

whatever other gigs were going on

[Music]

[Music]

See

[Music]

all.

[Music]

It was a lot of sort of the dinosaur

people from the old hardcore scene, the

whole hardcore punk scene that were

forming new bands. But yet because they

were all new bands um and they had a

whole new statement to make and stuff

and everything, it felt like that bands

like us and Scream and Marginal Man, we

were like, you know, we were left out of

the party. We were not invited.

[Music]

Search your mind when you find yourself

losing. wonder

when you find yourself.

It was sort of like live therapy and I

think for the for the musicians and for

the audience

right at that point

threw it all in. I mean they as as

rights of spring were prone to do they

there was nothing left when they left

the stage. They were broken. All the

instruments were broken. all the mics

were broken. It it it suddenly it

brought the level up. It brought the

emotional involvement engagement up.

The distinctive part of Rights of Spring

was GE's lyrics. He came out of the blue

with those with those uh lyrics. Um and

I remember listening to we we went in to

record the demo and the first song he

sang was End on End. And um by the end

of that, you know, I mean, we were I was

shocked cuz he had never sung in

practice.

days when nothing changes

moving in an empty room

to me. You know, 80 or 90% of the whole

Rights of Spring experience is getting

this nugget of GE's genius

through a microphone onto tape and and

and out for the out for the world to

hear. People kind of ridiculed those

bands to some degree and they said, "Oh,

look, it's emotional, hardcore, emoore."

And I saw Marginal Man early on after I

came here. It was clear to me when I was

watching them, they were an extremely

powerful band. And in a way you can also

see marginal man's proto emo if you want

to use that.

[Applause]

[Applause]

[Music]

First band I think about in that period

would have to be Marginal Man because

for me they were really the first band I

saw live that just put it all out there.

And there was one song they did called

Forever Gone uh about the suicide of uh

a good friend of the guitar players,

Pete. The one time I saw them do it uh

they couldn't finish the song. Pete just

collapsed and that was the end of the

set. And that was a really powerful, you

know, moment for me because I realized

like this is not a joke.

[Music]

We had to stop playing Forever Gone

because Pete would lose it while trying

to play that song and it would take us

10 minutes to put him back together in

order to finish the set and it was too

hard on all of us. Especially Pete cuz

he felt that, he lived that. All of our

songs we lived. I mean, it's always

rough to watch anyone, you know, you

know, breaking down, especially when

it's during a song where you already

know the words, so you know what it's

about. So, you know what thoughts are

being conjured up.

It was a release and of course Brian

Baker had to make fun of it. So Brian

Baker I believe he was like you know

this is like emotional hardcore emoore.

At the time I didn't I didn't relate to

it. Um,

no. I didn't really understand it. Um, I

really like the music, but I just

thought the all of the anciliary, the

the posturing

uh, and that that that expression, I

just thought it was kind of uh, I just

didn't I didn't respond to it. It didn't

resonate with me. Um, but also I'm kind

of an uptight wasp. So,

[Music]

it wasn't a genre back then. It wasn't

considered a genre. It wasn't even

considered the birth of a genre back

then. And it was just it was just

something that somebody had said sort of

in a derogatory way about a band that we

were in that was emotionally, you know,

uh, exposed on stage pretty often.

Emo.

I think the first time I heard someone

call it emo was like at an Embrace show

where Ian was talking about it like some

people call it emo or whatever he said

and I was like, emo? What is that?

Emmaore must be the stupidest [ __ ]

thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

Well, come on, man.

But just in case you're wondering,

I read in my Thrasher the other day

that in fact what my band along with

other bands in the city was playing was

emoore.

I'm thinking emo emo phillips comedian

Ian Core. Why? No. Emotional hardcore.

as if hardcore wasn't emotional to begin

with.

As far as concerned, punk had been

emotional since day one. I mean, Johnny

Rotten was like emotional.

Goodbye to you, my friend.

[Music]

And I almost

[Music]

the last time.

Goodbye to you, my friend. And there was

like a whole new emotional sensitivity.

And it was great. Like you didn't have

to sing about [ __ ] Reagan anymore.

And you didn't have to [ __ ] you

know, sing about the cops or whatever.

It was okay to sing about having your

heart broken or whatever it was, you

know? And it it was it it was inspiring.

[Music]

I was very happy when things got

political. People started growing up a

little bit and I and the aparthide um

percussion protests were definitely the

first stage of that.

Yeah. So somewhere along the way myself

and Chris Bald and a couple other cats

during that during that era were were um

saying there's got to be something that

we can do, you know. So we just said,

"Well, I know one thing we can do. We

can make some noise. We're a bunch of

punk rockers, man. We can make some

noise." So we just kind of put the word

out there said they be protesting on on

Massachusetts Avenue all the time and we

should just come out with some drums and

some hub caps and and some bells,

anything we can find to make noise. The

protests outside of the uh the South

African embassy were really the

beginning of like a political awakening

um in the scene. And it was around that

time that Mark Anderson, who had started

an organization called Positive Force,

um really started to get some traction

in the local scene.

Bang on the

bang on the

bound.

[Music]

Positive Force was was actually a really

good addition and brought an

organization to an otherwise desperate

kind of community by making shows that

benefited

the homeless or food for the poor or

whatever. They actually were able to

take this desperate energy, bring it

together and and send it back out into

the community in a productive way. The

fact that they exposed the community to

so many um important problems of the era

and of the era still um is uh I think

really something that's valuable and and

and the way it functioned in DC again is

really just because we had the backdrop

of these government structures in our

city

[Applause]

[Music]

and Mark was really committed, you know.

I mean, he was really passionate. Um,

you had to give him credit. He would get

up on stage before every positive force

benefit. You know, he would talk before

the show to let people know why they

were there. The first couple times I saw

him do that, it was uh it was a little

uncomfortable because people at that

point weren't used to having, you know,

someone up on stage telling them, you

know, anything about politics, let alone

social issues, whatever.

They will help you get closer to the

truth. And I think that's what we want.

We want the truth. We don't want the

[ __ ] lies.

And so it became a large number of the

shows were positive force shows. And

it was on the political side that was

both good because there was some cool

stuff happening and it was there was

some good information. Um, on the flip

side, you know,

sometimes I think the the information

took center stage over the shows

[Music]

[Applause]

I remember on this three record that has

the pink triangle, silence equals death.

You know, people weren't talking about

AIDS like that then. you know, I mean,

that was not a thing that was in the

mass media, but you could go to a show

and get a pamphlet about it and kind of

get hipped to a lot of this stuff. And,

you know, they really were able to tap

into what was happening at that moment.

And the reality of AIDS is that

thousands of people are dying. There are

ways for those people for all of us not

to die. One of them is to start taking

the whole thing very seriously. Not all

clubs allowed you to do all ages shows

and they put on shows at least once a

month it seemed like. So it was an off a

place where a lot of people could play.

Uh but I think it maybe became a little

too codified.

I sometimes felt like the political

nature of shows for me did did become

did sometimes become kind of feeling a

bit constricting.

You know, I didn't understand why we had

why our band just because we were a DC

band needed to be associated with

something that, you know, we didn't sign

up for.

[Music]

My eyes are closed, but I feel

confused now. What I hold in my head. I

want to live in the night. How's the

moon? I want to fly. Take time.

[Music]

[Applause]

the positive force thing kind of wasn't

on my radar because I was uh Dagnasti

was uh

about being a national act. I mean the

first thing our record before our record

even came out we had booked our first

tour and we were going out uh with the

descendants on the Enjoy tour. So I was

like

not really concerned about what was

happening here at home.

later nerds.

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

I'm irresponsible

and I'm irrational.

[Music]

What are you going to do?

I just didn't know why, you know, we had

to go back to the 60s and have it be a

movement for something for good causes,

you know? I

Yeah. Yeah. I'm a bad punker.

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

We were there for that moment just

before it blew up basically. And and

that's where the legacy that we were

carrying on was clear because we could

headline shows all over the country

based on the fact that we were on

Discord and we were from DC. Had nothing

to do with who we were or even what our

music was about.

[Music]

Heat. Heat.

You see

I see

I see on your

[Music]

the fact that we were on Discord and a

part of this, you know, the DC scene um

opened up

pretty much every door we could have

wanted as teenagers in a band in the

'8s.

[Music]

The worst thing

about being a part of the DC scene was

the there was something very

compartmental about it. Um

certain things were cool stamp and

certain things were not. And it was not

the fault of the people who were stamped

cool. um they were for the most part all

artists and wonderful people. It again

was the p the cultural perception that

this is acceptable

alternative underground culture. This we

don't know what that is. So

sought off. we were getting shows around

um I mean we got you know in other

cities just because oh you know you're

on Discord or oh you know I mean Fugazi

cast a mighty weight

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

There's a lot of diversity going on. Uh

Dagnasty even, you know, record to

record there was diversity. They, you

know, they they were transitioning so

quickly. Everybody was kind of fleeing

this uh you know, this core sound, the

hardcore sound, whatever. you know, that

that original sound. Uh, Swizz

really wanted to get back to that and

and we were surprised when uh when that

old guard really wasn't interested and

offended and and pissed, which fueled us

more to play more music like that. I

don't know that we really fit into that

scene very much.

Where did it go? Why do we change? I

just

[Music]

get it.

Sort of transformative moment was when

uh Fire Party started because you know

there were some people in that band that

were dating uh boys in other bands. And

you know when those other boys in those

bands sang you know brokenhearted love

songs or critical love songs, you had a

pretty good idea who they might be

singing about. And it was a pretty

one-sided conversation. So, it was

exciting to me to be able to have uh to

see, you know, Amy and um and the other

women in Fire Party be up there and have

have their own voice.

[Music]

There was this there was this idea I

think amongst a lot of people that you

shouldn't be overly feminine. I remember

when I sang for Special K, I really

struggled with the idea that it would be

okay for me to wear dresses on stage.

I remember when I started going to shows

in DC, it was eyeopening. there were

more women at the shows and I started

seeing bands with women in them and

finally for the first time it dawned on

me you can do this too and that's uh my

sophomore year in college I got my first

bass guitar and after I graduated um we

formed Jawbox this constant kind of we

don't want to talk we're we are women

we're playing music but we don't want to

talk about it you know we did we just

wanted to be looked at as musicians so

it was a really kind of interesting

phenomena when the riot girl thing

started because it was like they were

turning that on its head. You know, we

had spent all this time trying to play

in a way that we would just be respected

for who we were playing and suddenly

these girls were coming along and

saying, "No, like this is the forefront

of our identity and this is what we're

going to put in your face." And it's and

you know, it took me years to kind of

like deal with it and grapple with it.

[Music]

The reason why I got into Nirvana was

because they liked Scream

and so they came to see Scream play and

they saw me play and they're like, "Man,

if we could get a drummer like that,

we'd be set."

[Music]

Wow.

[Music]

But right around 88 89 that's when when

a lot of these the bands that would

become popular in the '9s really you

know started Ed coming up. The Nation of

Ulyses, uh, Jawbox, obviously, Fugazi.

I feel like it was a foregone conclusion

that Fugazi was going to be a big band,

though. I think that everybody was

waiting to like people people like no

matter what Ian was going to do,

you know, people were like, they wanted

to know about it. And then, you know,

the fact is they were a really good

band.

[Applause]

as well as sort of the lyrics and the

band's you know kind of way of doing

business and their ethic monster hooks

you know big choruses and at their

essence a lot of people would disagree

but you know at their essence is this

great like arena rock And

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

I am a baby boy. I

away my mind.

[Music]

[Music]

Like Fugazi, people say, "Well, you can

force people

to do it your way." No, we can't.

But we can say that we're not going to

do it their way. Accept it or don't

accept it, that's okay. You know, the

whole punk ethic has always been, you

know, you know where the [ __ ] door

is, so you can go. And you know, that's

the whole point. We don't charge like

incredible amounts of money. We don't

promise them nothing. We just say

fugazi.

What we did was we try to keep a low

door price in this country. We did made

five, but it was just funny to us.

The first time I saw Nirvana play was

when I flew up there to audition to be

their drummer. And I get there and

there's

like a thousand people at the show.

And I was blown away that there were

that many people there to see a local

band

because I thought the only place that

happened was in Washington DC with

Fugazi. You know, for a lot of people,

the the story begins when,

you know, Dave hits those drums and all

of a sudden Kurt Cobain is strumming

those chords and yeah, all of a sudden,

oh yeah, Punk's alive again. Nirvana

only existed because of all of this

stuff that happened before and whatever

Dave brought into there. I do think Dave

brought some magic into that band to

help make that extraordinary moment

happen for them. A lot of it straight

out of Revolution Summer. The real issue

with Nirvana and the there's this

explosion had to do with the video and

the imagery that was being used, which

was largely people crowd surfing,

jumping off a stage. And at that point,

it just became insane.

every show, no matter what you're

playing or if you were playing at all,

people had to jump up on people's heads.

So many necks were injured or broken.

I know that because it's one of the

reasons that we just would not we had

happened to our show. We had, you know,

somebody leave on the backboard never to

walk again.

Oh, it get out. Sit the [ __ ] down.

Kiss over the [ __ ] head. Can come up

all night. You can kick me in the

[ __ ] head. [ __ ]

This sort of fancy like dude won't let

us slam. We can't do our thing. It's

like [ __ ] you.

[Music]

Heat. Heat.

[Applause]

[Music]

I don't think anybody thought they were

going to get big. I don't think that was

a thing in in our music scene. The the

whole '8s and nobody nobody that I knew

thought too seriously about making it

big in our music scene. If you were

going to try to make

a serious living as a musician, you

would have to switch to a different

music scene.

DC was always just like shunning the

mainstream and shunning corporate

culture and like, you know, it was, you

know, a little embarrassing if you ended

up signing.

The major labels were just freaking out

trying to make money off of an

uncontrollable, undefinable,

you know, underground that captured

people's imagination. So they would

throw money at a band that didn't want

to be rock stars and could not

conceivably be rock stars because of

their music and their looks and their

personalities and their ambitions. We

sold in the in the area of like 20,000

records on Discord, which is pretty

respectable. So we never got really

reliable numbers from Atlantic, but

maybe we sold around 60,000 of our

Atlantic record. So that's tripling our

numbers. That's an that's an incredible

success for us. But for Atlantic, it's a

abject failure.

We never really got real any real

offers. I mean, probably the most

intense thing was when Amit Erdigan from

Atlantic came to see us. I mean, he said

in a it was like a in our dressing room

was a very

kind of off-the cuff conversation. He

said, "I want to do a deal with you like

I did with Mick."

And I at first I had no idea he was

talking about but I realized he's

talking because Atlantic did the deal

with the Rolling Stones. What does that

mean in numbers? I don't know. I mean I

assume a million dollars or more.

[Music]

[Music]

You can't be what you were

cover.

[Music]

you can be what you were

out.

[Music]

We became spoiled about controlling our

atmosphere. We we they were our shows

and and we um enjoyed that and it

empowered the band in a way because it

wasn't too many other forces to change

the you know feeling of the night. we

could kind of um take the momentum of of

you know who the opening bands were or

whatever the venue was in and then you

know how much people paid to get in and

everything to getting on stage and and

working with it as it happened and we

could give to things with that we stood

behind that we thought should exist in

society. being able to contribute to

that and mostly, you know, just being

able to believe in myself as uh

my having the the power to do something

for myself and other people.

It wasn't about sex, drugs, and rock and

roll. And I think that um it was really

a revolutionary movement in a lot of

ways that could have gone in a lot of

different directions. salad days. That's

not then, it's now. It is always now.

To go make it real now.

[Music]

Like the first time I recorded a song by

myself with two tape decks, you know,

going back and forth and playing drums

on pots and pans and writing, like when

I was finished that and I held that

[ __ ] tape in my hand, I swear to God,

I felt like I'd gone to the moon and

back. I was like, look what I did. And I

felt that way in everything I've ever

done. And it comes from here. It comes

from being in Washington DC be before my

exposure to punk rock. My perception was

if you wanted to make culture, anything,

art, music, anything, you had to be a

special person. Whereas like other

cultures in the world, you know, or

pretty much every culture, it's pretty

normal for people to make music, you

know, a big that's like thank you punk

rock for like

giving me that kind of like breathing

space to like think about this stuff and

and realize it's an inherent human

capability. Creativity

is normal.

You know, as a kid, when you're young

and you're in your bedroom and you're

listening to your Led Zeppelin record

and you see a music video on television

or something, all of that just seems a

little far out of reach. Oh, well, I

could never be in a rock band because I

can't [ __ ] play guitar like Jimmy

Paige. I could never

make my own record because you have to

be on a major label. or I could never

make a video cuz you have to be on MTV

or something. And

what happened here in Washington DC was

everybody

did all of those things themselves.

Everybody felt that it was entirely

possible and they were entirely capable

of starting a record company, putting

out a single, making a [ __ ] fanzine,

starting a band, booking a show, going

on tour, whatever it was. All of these

things were possibilities.

If only everybody had grown up here

doing that. Could you imagine? because

my kids or your kids or whoever would

say like, "You know what, Dad? I'm going

to um I'm going to make a record."

Like, "Oh, yeah. Cool.

Make it good.

[Music]

Sometimes I feel like I'm living with a

stranger, walking by myself.

Sometimes it seems these hopes and

dreams all came from somewhere else, but

I don't know.

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

Sometimes I feel like living with a

stranger walking by myself.

Time to see my hopes and dreams. I came

from somewhere else. But I don't know.

This is something that

is

I wouldn't even

I don't know why.

[Music]

Well, I don't care. Picture is going to

go your last round. Don't forget that

your head to the ground.

Sometimes feel

walking by myself.

But everyone around that I should take

my wake me back. I know.

And I can't forget what is my walking by

myself.

Counting everything you want is just

like counting coles.

[Music]

Well, I don't care. Picture

[Applause]

your life.

Keep your head to the ground.

Keep your head to the ground.

Keep your to

[Music]

[Applause]

the ground.

[Music]

Heat. Heat.

[Music]

[Music]

a day when you maybe

you too many voices

maybe you maybe

you

Where do I get up here?

Getting soft today. We got something for

the moment. It's not coming back.

They're so serious about the stuff we

like. What about our memories? But there

are no

[Applause]

Is that thing on still?

Turn it the [ __ ] off.

getting you

know

3 years ago

[Music]

and

[Music]

I know

what happened.

[Music]

Yeah.

[Music]

This is my day.

You baby

[Music]

too many voices

you

[Music]

where do I get off

the course

you never win.

Yeah. So I

call those

[Music]

Yeah.

[Music]