All language subtitles for Gender Revolution A Journey with Katie Couric

[heartbeat]

* [lullaby playing]

KATIE COURIC:
It used to be so simple.

You were a boy
or you were a girl.

Girls wore pink, boys wore blue.

Girls played with dolls,
boys played with trucks.

Girls played house,
boys played sports.

But that was then...

and this is now.

MAURA PFEFFERMAN: My whole life,

I've been dressing up
like a man.

This is me.

*

WOMAN: The next battleground,
transgender rights.

REPORTER: Gloucester
School Board has been ordered

by a court in Virginia

to allow Gavin Grimm to use
the same restroom as other boys.

MAN: What happens if your baby
is born with the anatomy

of both a boy and a girl?

ASH CARTER: Transgender
Americans may serve openly.

REPORTER: A transgender
staff member

now works at the White House.

REPORTER: The question is
whether this athlete should run

in the men's or women's race.

SARAH MCBRIDE:
Will we be a nation

where everyone has the freedom
to live openly and equally?

TRACEY NORMAN:
It's good to be back,

and it's really good to be me.

JAMES CHARLES:
I am a new Cover Girl.

REPORTER: Unisex baby names
are totally trending.

Girls are getting names like
Riley, Mason, and Taylor.

ANDY DEROIN:
My name's Andy DeRoin.

I use they, them, their
as pronouns.

REPORTER: DeRoin identifies
as gender non-binary,

or neither male nor female.

MAN: My generation says
that gender is fluid,

and that it's more
of a spectrum.

CAITLYN JENNER: This woman has
lived inside of me all my life.

It's time for her to live.

KATIE: It's all happening
so fast,

but thanks to planes, trains,
and automobiles,

I set out to explore

the changing terrain
of gender today.

What is gender

and what determines it?

How can someone's sex at birth,

their anatomy,

be different than

their gender identity?

And what if gender roles
are rejected entirely?

And what about people
who don't consider themselves

men or women?

So many questions
as we find ourselves

in the midst
of a Gender Revolution.

* Shoob dooby
dooby doo wop wop *

* Shoob dooby dooby
doo wop wop *

I was born in 1957

and raised in a culture that
made one thing perfectly clear.

The world was divided
into two categories.

Male, like my brother Johnny,
and female, like me.

And every message in popular
culture reinforced that notion.

MARCIA: You're prejudiced
against women drivers.

GREG: No, I'm not. Not as long
as they stay off the roads.

KATIE: As I grew up,
things started to change,

and I was able to do things
my mom never dreamed of.

* Who can turn the world on
with her smile *

Mary Tyler Moore inspired me
to go into TV news

even though some of the issues
Mary faced

still haven't gone away.

MARY TYLER MOORE:
I would like to know why

the last associate producer
before me

made $50 a week more than I do.

MAN: Oh, because he was a man.

[laughter]

KATIE: Back then, the revolution

was really about
changing gender roles.

Now, it seems it's about the
whole concept of gender itself.

TOM: Goal!

MITCHELL: Nice shot, Tom.

Tom used to identify as Tina.

CAMERON: [gasps] Oh, I wish
you wouldn't have told me.

You know how proud I am
of my gender identificadar.

KATIE: It can be a bit confusing

and pretty overwhelming.

After all, Facebook now lets you
choose male, female, or custom,

which lets you tailor your
gender profile any way you want.

For some people,
it's too much to handle.

MAN: I come from you're either
male or you're female.

Have I been living in a hole?

[laughs]

MAN: I can't imagine that
there's 58 different ways

to gender categorize yourself.

WOMAN: I think perhaps there is
some sort of madness going on

with political correctness.

Sometimes you just want to say
what you want to say.

KATIE: So, what's a cisgender
woman like me to do?

By the way, cisgender means

I identify with the gender
I was given at birth.

*

Thank you. Thanks a lot.

I decided to head to
a playground in New York City

to get some straight talk
about gender.

I first saw Sam Killermann
giving a TEDx talk,

and he got my attention
with his opening line.

SAM KILLERMANN: So, I'm not gay.

[laughter]

KATIE: Sam has been studying
gender for more than 10 years,

and he even wrote
a book about it.

SAM: The reason why people

always assume I'm gay has

nothing to do with sexuality.

It's all about gender.

Gender and sexuality are
often lumped together,

but they're two
different things.

KATIE: Sam and I met up

so he could give me a lesson
in Gender 101.

Let's unpack this whole
gender conversation.

You use a device or a character
called the genderbread man.

SAM: Person.

KATIE: Oh, sorry.
Oh! Sorry, sorry.

The genderbread person!

SAM: It's okay.

I find it really helpful
to think about gender

in a few different
distinct categories.

Gender identity--

how you define your gender
and how you see yourself.

Gender expression--the different
ways that we present

or perform gender
through our actions,

our dress, and our demeanor.

And biological sex
or anatomical sex.

The physical characteristics
that make up our body

that in many people's minds
equal gender, but don't.

KATIE: So, gender expression

is the way you present yourself
to the world.

So, you could be talking
about the way you dress.

SAM: Yeah.

KATIE: The way you'd comb
your hair or...

SAM: Or don't.

KATIE: Or use product?
SAM: Yeah.

KATIE: So, everything kind of

as it relates to
the outside world, right?

SAM: Yeah, yeah, that, I mean,

that's a perfect way
of thinking about it.

So, even just, okay.
So, this is funny.

The way that
I'm sitting right now

is a very feminine expression
of sitting,

because, like, how we sit
is gendered, right?

KATIE: Meanwhile,
I'm kind of manspreading.

SAM: Yeah, you're manspreading.

You're not even giving me
enough room

to properly manspread over here.

This is the man cross, the
masculine way of crossing a leg.

This is just uncomfortable
for me.

It feels like so much...

KATIE: It feels good to me.
SAM: Yeah?

KATIE: Yeah, it's like yoga.
Okay. Now, let's do the girl.

SAM: Okay.

KATIE: So, gender is different
than sexual orientation.

SAM: Yeah.

KATIE: But a lot of people
get them confused.

SAM: Yeah.

Gender is who you go to bed as.

Sexual orientation is
who you go to bed with.

KATIE: Got it.

SAM: So, if you haven't heard
that one, that one's important.

KATIE: So, let's talk about
penises and vaginas, shall we?

[laughs]
SAM: Yeah, we might as well.

KATIE: Let's just go
right there.

SAM: If you haven't
already talked

about penises and vaginas,

we need to talk about
penises and vagina,

because that's what everybody
always thinks,

like, immediately,
as soon as you say gender,

anybody who's walking by
right now

who's hearing us say
the word gender,

the first thing that's
popping into their mind

is external genitalia.

They're thinking about
penises and vaginas.

KATIE: So, for the purpose
of our discussion,

the bottom line is
your external genitalia

does not dictate your gender?

SAM: Yeah.

KATIE: Wait a second.
Can you rewind that?

The bottom line is
your external genitalia

does not dictate your gender?

SAM: Yeah.

I mean, that, I couldn't
have said it better.

KATIE: Actually,
for the vast majority of us,

our external genitalia
does correlate

with the gender we identify as,

but that's not the case
for everyone.

To make sense of it, let's go
back to eighth grade biology.

FILM NARRATOR: Human growth
begins when, during mating,

millions of sperm cells are
released inside the mother.

This union of egg and sperm
is called fertilization.

KATIE: So, what happens
after that?

Well, we all start out
looking like girls.

JOSHUA SAFER: The default
in utero is female,

at least with regard
to external genitalia.

But when you add testosterone,
what that really is doing is

it's making the clitoris grow,

and there you have a penis.

What's also happening is that
the labia grow together.

They actually fuse.

KATIE: Meanwhile,
all babies have gonads,

and if you're a girl,
those gonads turn into ovaries.

KATIE: But if you're a boy.

JOSHUA: Those gonads
now grow down

into those fused labia
that were, are now a scrotum.

KATIE: The game-changing
hormones

that put it all in motion
are called androgens.

Otherwise known as testosterone.

But what happens when
something different occurs

during that critical window,
the first trimester,

when the genitals form?

What if a female embryo
is exposed to testosterone

or a male embryo
isn't exposed to enough?

That can lead to
a baby born intersex.

Siri, what does intersex mean?

SIRI: Intersex means relating to
or denoting a person or animal

that has both male and female
sex organs

or other sexual characteristics.

ELLEN FEDER: There are
female children born

looking more typically male
than female.

They have typical internal
female reproductive anatomy.

They have a phallus, which
in women we call a clitoris,

in males, we call a penis,

but they have a phallus that
looks more male than female,

and they can be born
with fused labia.

KATIE: So, if these babies are
not clearly male or female,

what determines their gender
and who gets to decide?

I wanted to learn more about
what it means to be intersex

and what people born this way

might teach all of us about
the origins of gender itself.

So, I came to Maryland
to meet Brian Douglas,

because for nearly 50 years,

Brian was Diane.

Is it okay for me
to talk about Diane,

because I know for, for some
people, it's really painful.

BRIAN DOUGLAS: That's okay.

KATIE: Tell us about the
condition you were born with

and what it does.

BRIAN: The condition that I have
is known as CAH,

which is congenital adrenal
hyperplasia.

KATIE: So, you were born,
as many intersex babies are,

with what I guess is termed
ambiguous genitalia.

BRIAN: Yes, they thought I was a
boy absolutely when I was born.

I've had enlarged, it looked
like a penis and testicles.

KATIE: At the same time,
you had a womb and ovaries, yes?

BRIAN: Yes.

While in my mother's womb,

I was exposed to excessive
amounts of testosterone.

KATIE: Your doctors advised your
parents that you needed surgery.

BRIAN: Exactly.

ELLEN: Dating from
about the 1950s,

medicine has sought actively
to intervene

in normalizing
the bodies of children

born with atypical
sex anatomies.

That determination was made

strictly on the size
of the phallus.

KATRINA KARKAZIS:
This is the Phall-O-Meter,

made into a very helpful

refrigerator magnet.

[laughs]

KATIE: The Phall-O-Meter
was developed in the 1990s

by intersex activists

to illustrate the arbitrary
nature of these surgeries.

ELLEN: If a boy was born with
a penis smaller than one inch,

he would be castrated and
surgically reassigned girl.

If a female child was born
with a clitoris

longer than one centimeter
in length,

she would have a clitorectomy

and she would continue
her assignment as a girl.

KATIE: You had your first
surgery when you were how old?

BRIAN: 11 months.

KATIE: How were your parents
told to deal

with this whole situation?

BRIAN: Silence.

Never a word was said

over the years of treatment
that I received,

because back in the day, the
doctors, you know, were gods,

and you didn't question them.

KATIE: So, you grew up
as a girl, Diane.

BRIAN: Correct.

KATIE: You had the appearance
of a girl,

but all the while feeling

that this wasn't you.

BRIAN: It was beautiful
wrapping paper,

but that did not match
the individual

underneath that wrapping paper.

And it was very frustrating,

and it took me a little while
to, um, put the pieces together

and to realize what was
going on with me.

KATIE: Why did it
finally register?

BRIAN: I noticed that
my birth certificate

had a whiteout on it.

The name had been whited out

and typed a different name
over top of it.

And I called my mother
and I said,

'Mom, what was my name
on my birth certificate

when I was born?' And, um...

KATIE: How old were you?

BRIAN: Early 30s.

And, um, she started to cry, and
I said, 'Mom, I love you dearly,

but I have the right to know,'
and she told me.

KATIE: She said it?
BRIAN: Yes.

KATIE: It was Brian?
BRIAN: Correct.

*

KATIE: After spending
most of his life

trying to live as a woman,

Brian decided to affirm
his gender identity as a man.

Did you start taking
testosterone?

BRIAN: Yes.

KATIE: Have you noticed
your body changing?

BRIAN: Oh, yeah, yeah.

I actually have facial hair.
I shaved for you.

KATIE: Can I feel it?

Oh, yeah, you do.

BRIAN: Yeah.
I shaved for you today, so.

KATIE: Thank you. I appreciate
that. You didn't have to.

BRIAN: Okay.

KATIE: What about
your mom and dad?

Do they call you Brian now?

BRIAN: They haven't gone to the
point of calling me Brian yet.

KATIE: So, what do
they call you?

BRIAN: They call me D.

Yeah.

KATIE: Do you wish
they'd call you Brian?

BRIAN: I do.

KATIE: Do you think
they'll get there?

BRIAN: Yes.

KATIE:
The protocol for operating

on intersex babies like Brian

was pioneered in the second half
of the 20th Century

by this guy, Dr. John Money.

Money theorized that nurture
could actually supersede nature

when it came to gender identity.

And in 1966,
he found an opportunity

to test this hypothesis
on identical twins.

Both had been born male,

but one had his penis destroyed
in a botched circumcision.

ELLEN: This was the perfect
experiment for Money.

Identical twin boys, and
if he could successfully see

to the rearing of the one child
as a female,

then his theory about gender
malleability would be confirmed.

KATIE: Following Money's advice,
David Reimer was operated on,

renamed Brenda,
and raised as a girl.

ELLEN: For many years,
it was believed

that the experiment
was a rousing success.

And Money published many papers
attesting to that success.

KATIE: But the world didn't know

that despite trying to live
as a girl, he was miserable.

And when his parents told him
the truth at the age of 14,

he immediately went back
to being a boy.

DAVID REIMER: If I could
prevent this from happening

to somebody else, you know,

maybe what happened to me
wouldn't be in vain.

KATIE: For David Reimer,

this experiment turned
into a living nightmare,

and he took his own life
in 2004.

But by then, John Money was
already considered

a world-renowned expert,

and the Reimer case had
established the rationale

for operating on intersex babies

with the theory that you could
impose a baby's gender

simply through surgery
and parenting.

The same year David Reimer
committed suicide,

a landmark study of intersex
children seemed to confirm

that gender identity is
biologically predetermined

and cannot be manipulated.

JOSHUA: This study is

David Reimer on steroids.

KATIE: 16 children were born
with a rare intersex condition.

While they had XY chromosomes
and were genetically boys,

they were born without penises.

Most had vaginas
surgically constructed

and were raised as girls.

Despite the surgeries, four of
them insisted they were boys,

four others initially
lived as girls.

JOSHUA: But when those kids
learned

what their medical histories
really were,

they decided,
'Oh, that explains a lot.'

I know you've given me
a girl's name,

and dressed me in pink,
and given me a vagina,

and are giving me
female hormones in puberty,

but actually, I'm a boy.

KATIE: Ultimately, nearly
two thirds of the children

felt that regardless
of their external genitalia

or how they were raised,
they were boys.

What happened to
the remaining children?

We don't know because
the study ended.

But it was enough to convince
a lot of doctors,

including Joshua Safer.

JOSHUA: So, this is not
just one individual

who was treated unfortunately
by the medical establishment,

but a whole group of kids.

KATIE: And Brian Douglas
is living proof

that gender identity
comes from deep within.

Because no matter what he was
named, or how he was dressed,

or what he may have looked like
anatomically,

Brian Douglas always
believed he was a boy.

And in 2008, he wrote a letter
to the doctors

who had chosen
his gender for him.

BRIAN: I write this letter
to attempt to truly communicate

and express the shame,
humiliation, and suffering

I have experienced as a result
of medical practices performed

because I was born intersex.

KATIE: You did get an apology.

BRIAN: I did, I got
two letters of apology.

KATIE: Were you surprised?

BRIAN: I was.
I was very shocked, actually.

That's basically unheard of
for a doctor to do that.

KATIE: What would you say
to doctors

who are still performing
these surgeries?

BRIAN: Your days are numbered

as far as this being
the acceptable and humane way

to practice on children.

And so, I wish that soon
that the procedures

that were done on me, they will
become few and far between.

And that's my desire.

STEPHANIE LOHMAN:
What I thought was

why aren't they giving me
the baby?

KATIE: Rosie was born intersex.

STEPHANIE: And the doctor said
that she would need surgery.

KATIE: Why are doctors still
performing these surgeries?

One out of ten kids
feeling forced

into the wrong gender identity,
that's...

MAN: Is bad.
KATIE: That's a high number.

KATIE: How many babies
are born intersex?

Well, no one knows for sure,

but experts say it's one
in every 1,500 to 2,000 births.

GEORGIANN DAVIS: And I know
thousands of people

all around the world
who are intersex.

So, to me, the real issue is not
how common it is,

but the way in which
society views intersex.

KATIE: And those views
are starting to change.

How old are you?

Four years old?

Today, the Lohmans
are celebrating

their daughter Rosie's birthday.

Oh, nice, what do you think?

We hear you're
a big baseball fan.

I'm a fan of
the New York Yankees.

ROSIE: Boo!

[laughter]

KATIE: Rosie's dad, Eric,
is a media studies professor

at the University of Wisconsin.

Her mom, Stephanie,
is a registered nurse.

ERIC: Nice.

STEPHANIE: Wow, good job.

KATIE: Tell me about
the day Rosie was born.

STEPHANIE: It was a perfectly
normal pregnancy.

I had many ultrasounds,
and they said it's a girl,

so then we had Rosie,

and it was, you know, just like
any other birthing experience.

ERIC: So, when Rosie
was delivered,

they showed Rosie to Steph,
and she smacked me

and said that she told me

that these ultrasounds
can be wrong, right?

When she looked at Rosie
for the first time,

she thought it was a boy.

And so...

You did smack me, I remember.

So, I looked around the room and
I saw what looked to be panic.

STEPHANIE: What I thought was

why aren't they giving me
the baby?

You know, right, like,
they usually give you the baby

right away and...

ERIC: It went from very exciting
to sort of very scary quickly.

KATIE: And very confusing.

ERIC: Very confusing
very quickly.

STEPHANIE: Yeah, very confusing.

And then the doctor came over,

it was very hard for the doctor
to look at me and tell me,

he said, 'Well, sometimes babies
are not quite a girl

and not quite a boy.'

And he said, 'The baby has
this condition called CAH.'

KATIE: Like Brian Douglas,
Rosie was born with CAH,

a serious medical condition that
can cause a baby

to be born intersex.

STEPHANIE: The doc said that
she would need surgery

within six months.

KATIE: What did you say?

ERIC: I was angry, I mean,
I turned hostile very quickly,

you know, this is
a cosmetic procedure.

What he's describing and
what he did describe to us

was a cosmetic, you know,
procedure.

Her body functions normally,
so to make any changes to it

are by definition cosmetic.

GEORGIANN: No one should be able
to sort of dictate

or tell a child
or consent to a procedure

that, on a kid's body,
that's irreversible

and medically unnecessary.

ERIC: She might never ever want
to have a surgery

that changes the way
that she looks.

I wouldn't be able to justify

saying we made this choice
for you

and I hope it was the right one.

KATIE: So, why are doctors
still performing surgeries

on intersex babies like Rosie?

We asked Rosie's pediatric
urologist that question.

He disputes the Lohmans' version
of events

and says not operating
was presented as an option,

and said he's sorry if they got
the wrong impression.

He also says if
it had been his child,

he would've likely
opted for surgery.

SUMIT DAVE: One of the things
we know

with congenital
adrenal hyperplasia

is that the majority of them,

90% to 95% of them, would
identify themselves as females.

The trouble really lies
in that five, ten

who do not identify as a female,
and you operate on them,

and you didn't give them
the chance

to express that gender identity.

And for that, it's, for that
group of people, I agree,

it's a complete,
you know, disaster.

KATIE: One out of ten kids
feeling that they were forced

into the wrong gender identity,
that's...

SUMIT: Is bad.

KATIE: That's a high number.

SUMIT: Yeah, it is,
and it could be even higher.

KATIE: What percentage
of these kids

are currently being operated on?

SUMIT: I can't give you,
give you an exact number,

but if you look at the data,

about 75% to 85% of the parents
would decide on surgery.

KATIE: But I guess

some would argue,

isn't that the child's decision?

SUMIT: Yes, it is.

But, you know, as parents,

we take a lot of decisions
for our children.

And that's not just
for medical reasons,

we do that for everything.

KATIE: Some doctors, and
I imagine some parents, feel

it's just less traumatic
to grow up as male or female

in this binary world
we're living in.

GEORGIANN: Mm-hmm.

KATIE: Do they have a point?

GEORGIANN: Well, I think the,
it's a great question,

but I think what
we can think about it

is that these are
human rights violations

on intersex kids' bodies.

And kids, I feel,
should have their right

to make their own decisions
about their own bodies.

KATIE: What if one day
Rosie says to you,

'I can't believe you didn't
have the surgery

when I was a little baby?'

ERIC: Yeah, that is a concern.

STEPHANIE: I'd rather deal with
the fallout of an adolescent

saying, 'Why, why didn't
you do this sooner?'

And I'll say, 'Well, I wanted
you to have a choice.'

Than to have a teenager,
an adolescent saying,

'Why did you do that to me?
I never would've wanted that.'

KATIE: For now, the Lohmans
are keeping an open mind

in case Rosie decides to have
surgery when she's older.

They say they just want to do
what's right for their child.

And that's exactly what
the Ford family is doing

with their daughter as well.

I visited them in their home

in Northeast Washington, DC.

Vanessa and JR have two kids.

Ellie is five and Ronnie is six.

Both born male,
but at the age of four,

their youngest son told them
she was a girl.

Hey, Siri, what does
transgender mean?

SIRI: Transgender means

denoting or relating to a person

whose sense of personal identity

does not correspond with

the gender assigned

to them at birth.

KATIE: I'm gonna help you guys.
What are we making?

JR FORD: So, we're gonna
make a feta salad.

KATIE: The day I visited,

they were getting ready to host
a neighborhood barbecue.

So, tell me about when
Ellie became Ellie.

JR: So, when she was
in preschool,

her and her brother would
dress up in costumes and dresses

and whatever they wanted.

VANESSA FORD: I mean, so many
little boys did that,

they play, they play princesses.

But by the time Ronnie was four,

that was gone, like,
that wasn't part of who he was.

KATIE: So, with Ronnie
it was a phase?

VANESSA: Yeah,
with Ronnie it was a phase.

And with Ellie,
we had a different kid

when that dress was on.

We have pictures of her
in snow gear,

and there's this dress
over all of the snow gear.

And on her fourth birthday,
we had this big birthday party,

and she stopped
and she turned to me,

she's like, 'Mom, I'm not a boy,

I'm a girl in my heart
and my brain.'

KATIE: So, when Ellie,
who was then your son...

VANESSA: Right.

KATIE: Said that to you,

'I'm a girl in my heart
and in my brain.'

VANESSA: Yeah.

KATIE: I mean, was that, was
that a little scary at first?

VANESSA: Yes.

Initially, I thought how could
this child know that,

what does that mean?

JEAN MALPAS: When
a four-year-old cisgender child

tells you, 'I'm a little girl.'

Do you say,
'Well, I don't know yet,

let's see, let's take some time,

let's wait until you're 15 or 18
and we'll find out.'

When we're thinking about

would kids change their mind,

we have to really
differentiate

the kids who are
gender explorers,

gender expansive, gender fluid,

who after adolescence

will not want to transition.

What we know with kids who are

persistent, consistent,

and insistent

from a very young age

is that almost none of them

change their mind.

KATIE: So, how do young kids
like Ellie

know with such certainty
who they are?

Perhaps it's because

that's what their brains
may be telling them.

Once again, scientists suspect

the big T, testosterone,

is playing a role.

In the second and third
trimesters,

a baby's brain grows rapidly.

Higher than normal levels
of testosterone in a girl

during this time, and her brain
maybe wired to think she's a he.

Lower than normal levels
of testosterone in a boy,

and his brain maybe wired
to feel like a she,

just like Ellie.

Some people said, you know,

the parents' job is
to guide their child,

and that a child basically
in essence isn't old enough

to make this kind of choice.

Did you have
a medical professional

kind of guiding you
through this?

Because I know as a parent,

I mean, it's such
a massive decision.

VANESSA: Yeah.

JR: So, Vanessa found that
there's a clinic

within the Children's National
Medical Center

that we sought out first.

They brought Vanessa, myself,
and Ellie in.

So, that was our initial
kind of intake

into, you know, what does
this mean for Ellie,

what does this mean for us?

VANESSA: They asked about how
she depicts herself in drawings,

what she calls herself,

and then they bring you in

for about a two-hour conference.

They met with Ellie on her own,

and then they met with us,

and they've said,
'You're doing the right thing,

your kid is who
she says she is.'

And then, of course,
we got Ellie a therapist,

and she's a PhD, she does
assessment, she does diagnoses,

she does all of that.

And she was another
affirming person who said,

'You have a trans kid.'

KATIE: Like most families,

they shared the news
in a thoroughly modern way.

VANESSA: We actually have
a video of her

that we posted on Facebook
at the time

saying we don't know
what this path is,

our son just really wants
girl clothes,

and so we bought her
a whole new wardrobe,

and we have a video
of her coming up

and seeing the clothes
for the first time.

Ready for the big surprise?

ELLIE: Yeah.

VANESSA: Look in your closet

at all the dresses
that are hanging up.

ELLIE: I'm gonna wear
this dress first.

VANESSA: That's the one
you're gonna wear first?

ELLIE: Yeah.

KATIE: And what was the reaction
to that on Facebook?

JR: Uh, phenomenal.

VANESSA: Yeah.

JR: All our family and friends
have just really been

just loving and caring and just
have been really supportive,

because they know us.

They know our family.

Um...

And, um...

It's just been
a really good feeling

to know that people support us.

We want to make sure

that our kids are healthy,
protected, loved.

So, any way that we could
support them, we will do it.

KATIE: Do you want to try to put
some lipstick on me?

ELLIE: Yeah.

KATIE: Okay. Whoa, not too much.

Ellie is now in kindergarten,

where her mom and dad say
she's just one of the girls.

And she'll be allowed to live as
a girl as long as she wants to.

VANESSA: We've seen her,
we've seen this progression,

and we've seen how amazing
she's become

and confident in who she is,
and we're okay with that.

KATIE: And they say all of this
can be undone

if Ellie changes her mind,
which they believe is unlikely.

JEAN: When a child transitions,

everybody transitions
along with them.

That means the parents,

the classmates in school,

the teacher, the principal,

everybody has to understand
what's going on.

KATIE: But for Ellie,
the real challenge will happen

a few years down the road,

something the Fords
know all too well.

JR: When kids get older,

you know, when they're going
into puberty,

this dysphoria is heightened,

it's increased because
all the hormones

are starting to come in,

and there's just
this internal battle.

KATIE: You're 12 years old,

so puberty is just
around the corner.

ALLY HUDSON: Yeah.

JEAN: Puberty is very stressful.

The body will betray
who they are.

And once they start
cross hormones,

these are permanent changes.

EJ: I'm almost six months on T.

OLIVER: Lucky.

I want to be six months
on T already.

*

KATIE: What would you do if your
daughter told you, 'I'm a boy?'

Or your son said, 'I'm a girl?'

And what makes someone feel

that way in the first place?

We know that scientists believe

that something happens
to the trans brain

while it's developing in utero,

but there's also some evidence

from human brains
examined postmortem

that seems to show trans brains
are in fact different.

And ground zero
is the hypothalamus,

the tiny nerve center that
controls your heart rate,

sleep, and metabolism.

Scientists initially believed
that the hypothalamus

of a gay man would resemble
that of a woman,

but what they found
surprised them.

JOSHUA: Down below, we have the
staining pattern of a gay man.

The picture above is
the staining pattern

of a straight man.

And observe,
there is no difference

between the gay man
and the straight man.

However, over here
in this corner,

we have the staining pattern
for our transgender woman,

and observe that even though
her external body parts at birth

may have been male,

she has the same
staining pattern

as the non-transgender,
as the cisgender woman.

What it tells us is that
there are areas in the brain

that correlate
with gender identity

and not with
external body parts.

KATIE: But it's not just
hormones like testosterone

influencing how our brains
are wired.

It may also be in our genes.

Why do scientists think that?

A 2012 study out of Belgium

found that among fraternal twins
who do not share identical DNA,

the likelihood that
if one twin is trans,

the other will be is very low.

But among identical twins,
the likelihood shoots up to 40%.

What does that mean?

STEPHEN ROSENTHAL:
Well, what that says to me

is that your DNA is
playing a role here,

because the identical twins
essentially share the same DNA,

whereas
the non-identical twins don't.

JOSHUA: We don't know if this is
one gene or eight genes

or a group of genes

that are affected
in slightly different ways,

but I absolutely do believe
that we will have a day

when you can do either
a brain scan or a blood test,

and we will be able
to say that, yes,

your kid has the biology
in their brain

for the opposite
gender identity.

KATIE: After all,
according to one estimate,

the number of people in the US

who identify as trans has

doubled in the last five years.

Now, up to 1.4 million
Americans.

JOSHUA: So some people
have the sense

that the number of transgender
individuals is increasing,

but of course,
if this is biology,

then it wouldn't make any sense
that that would be true.

Rather, what's happening is
people who are transgender

are coming forward now more.

KATIE: As more and more
children,

often under the age of five,
are identifying as trans,

some parents are left
feeling dazed and confused.

JEAN: There's no manual
for parenting to begin with.

But when your child comes
with a whole other territory,

with other references,

with other needs that you've
never had to think about,

it is really, I think,

shocking and disorienting,

and where you need
a lot of help.

KATIE: What's it like to be
one of these families?

How do you prepare for this?

And what kind of help
are they getting?

That's what I was
hoping to learn

when I went to meet Ally Hudson,

a 12-year-old transgender girl,

on a day when she had
another visitor as well.

KRISTINA OLSON:
So I'm going to tell you

about two kinds of kids,

and I want you to decide
which one you're more like.

Does that make sense?

ALLY HUDSON: Yeah.

KRISTINA: My name's
Kristina Olson,

and I'm the director
of the TransYouth Project.

So what we're doing is
a 20-year longitudinal study

of hundreds of young transgender
and gender nonconforming kids,

and we go and visit them
every about two or three years

to assess
basic gender development.

Would you want to be friends
with a boy

who wears nail polish?

ALLY: Definitely.

KRISTINA: One of the questions

that we're working really hard
to try to answer

is this question that nearly
every parent asks us of.

Is this is a phase?

Is my child gonna
grow out of this?

And so the way that we're
trying to answer that

is to get a lot
of different kids

in a lot of different situations

and look at what their
later development looks like.

KATIE: So, Ally, how did you
feel about being in the study?

ALLY: I like it, because I want
to pave the way for other kids,

to make it easier for them and
not have it as hard as I did.

KATIE: On the surface,

Ally seems like any other
12-year-old girl.

She loves music, art,
and basketball.

But she hasn't always been this
comfortable in her own body.

She was assigned male at birth.

But for as long as she can
remember, she felt like a girl.

ALLY: In no way should anybody
think that this is phase.

We've been this way
all our lives

and that we've just now had the
voice and the guts to speak out

and tell what we're thinking

and not just what society
wants us to say.

KATIE: And Cristina,
did you ever think,

'Oh, perhaps my son is gay?'

CRISTINA: We thought that
our child was just very in touch

with her feminine side.

KATIE: And might be gay?

CRISTINA: Yeah, might be gay,
and we thought,

'Okay, that's great.
That's no problem.'

I remember even one time we went
to the American Girl Doll store

with a friend of mine

who does have a gay son
who also likes dolls.

And Ally gets in the car
after the day

and she says, 'Mom,
I'm not really like him.'

She didn't know
the word gay then,

but I knew what she was saying.

She was letting me know,

'Mom, yeah, this really isn't,
isn't me.'

KATIE: I wondered, Cristina,
there are some people out there

who I think have the attitude
as a parent,

you tell your kids what to do,
how to behave, who to be,

and that this tendency
to be more accepting

of transgender children
is part and parcel

of a overly permissive
kind of parenting style.

CRISTINA: I do get that a lot.

Like, you know, 'Wow, I don't
even let my child decide

what they're gonna
have for dinner,

and you're letting
your child decide

that they're now going to be
another gender?'

But what I say to them is,
'I didn't really have a choice.'

KATIE: Something Cristina
realized

when Ally's constant anxiety
had reached a breaking point.

CRISTINA: And after
one panic attack,

she said to me

with a look of, of despair,

she said, 'Mom, I need you
to answer one question,

because, Mom,
I can't do this again.'

And I said, 'What?'

'Yeah, yeah, I just
need to know, Mom.

What happens when I die?

Mom, will I be a girl then?

Will I be, will I be a girl?'

And I said,
'Absolutely. Totally.'

'You sure, Mom?'

'Yeah, I'm sure.
God would never do that.

You'll, you'll come back,

and, and you'll, you'll come
back how you want to come back.'

And she just sighed with relief.

And it took that, her kind of
asking permission to die

to get me finally that,
that next day,

I just got on it.

I think that I'd never
really had the strength

to type in
'transgender children,'

and that's what it took.

KATIE: So you've,
you were suicidal?

ALLY: Yes.

KATIE: At seven and a half?

ALLY: Mm-hmm.

KATIE: Now, with her family
supporting her,

Ally's dealing with
a challenging new stage.

JEAN: The emergence of puberty
for a lot of those kids

is very stressful.

Like, the idea that
the body will change,

and the body will betray,

in a way, who they are
and who they want to be,

really creates a lot of anxiety.

And puberty blockers allow
the body to not masculinize

and feminize
in a way that's unwanted.

WOMAN: I'm starting
blockers today.

WOMAN: Oh, my God, guys,
I'm so excited.

WOMAN: I got my first blocker
shot at the doctor's office.

WOMAN: It's like a big step,
it's gonna block male hormones.

KRISTINA: Many people call them
the pause button,

and what it does is
it pauses puberty where it is.

WOMAN: There it is!

KRISTINA: It allows the child
to develop a little bit more

without going into puberty.

It buys them a few years
of decision making,

and then if they go off
of the puberty blocker,

they will go just directly
into their natal sex puberty.

KATIE:
Ally, you're 12 years old,

so puberty is just
around the corner

whether you want it
to be or not.

ALLY: Yeah.

KATIE: And you've made
a decision

that you will go on
puberty blockers.

ALLY: Yeah.

KATIE: You didn't want
to grow facial hair.

ALLY: Yeah.
KATIE: Right?

ALLY: Yeah, definitely.

KATIE: You didn't want
your voice to lower.

ALLY: Yeah.

KATIE: So the doctor told you
you would have an implant,

is that right?

ALLY: There's a shot,
there's an implant,

and I chose the implant,
because it lasts for two years.

KATIE: Is that a new area?

CRISTINA:
Yeah, it's not like I can...

KATIE: Does that worry you,
Cristina?

CRISTINA: Yeah, that's why
I love a study like this,

because I wish there was a study
that I could look at right now

and say, 'Okay, let me see
about a 60-year-old

that at 12 years old went on
blockers and then hormones.'

But there is no study like that.

So it is a little scary,

and I know that some parents
might find it hard to understand

why I am choosing this
for my child.

But I believe that doing nothing
could be detrimental as well.

KATIE: So you really are kind of
a pioneer, aren't you?

ALLY: Definitely.

JOSHUA: Puberty blockers
are relatively safe

and are relatively reversible.

And in my view, we should be
using puberty blockers

for any kid who is reporting
that he or she is trans

as he or she is entering puberty

until they are able to decide
what to do long term.

KATIE: And you feel
this is definitely

the right course of action
for you?

ALLY: Yes, definitely.

There is nothing that is
stopping me from being who I am.

KATIE: So if puberty blockers
are the pause button,

what happens when these teens
decide to hit play

and want to make their
transition more permanent?

That means hormones.

This is Camp OUTdoors!,

one of the growing number
of summer camps

catering specifically to gay,
lesbian, and transgender teens,

and many of them are thinking
about hormone therapy,

which will begin to physically
transform their bodies,

bringing them into alignment
with their gender identity.

MAN: Boo-yah.

KATIE: A person who is assigned
female at birth

but is transitioning to male

would take testosterone.

A person who is assigned
male at birth

but is transitioning to female
would take estrogen.

JEAN: Cross hormones have
permanent effects,

so transgender adolescents
have to understand

that once they start
cross hormones,

their body's gonna change.

They might grow breasts,
they might grow facial hair,

their voice tone
is gonna change.

But obviously,
these are permanent changes.

OLIVER: In order for me
to start testosterone,

my parents have to
consent to it,

because I am not an adult,
I'm a minor.

MAN: Oliver.
OLIVER: Piper.

JOSHUA: The guidelines that
are out there right now

for cross sex hormones
are very conservative.

EJ: I know for a fact

that you have to have a letter
from a therapist.

OLIVER: Yeah!

MAN: Very good.

JEAN: We do a comprehensive
assessment.

Always make sure that

every kid in every family

has an in-depth assessment

and process to really find out

what the right pathway
is for them.

EJ: I fortunately had
a good therapist.

She got me on it right away,

because I talked about it
so much.

She knew that I needed
to be on hormones.

I'm almost six months on T.

OLIVER: Lucky.

I want to be six months
on T already.

EJ: It's so, it, like,
goes by like that. [snaps]

You don't even notice it.

It's cool to see different
people's reactions

to how my voice
is getting deeper

and will be continuing
to get deeper.

Is the reason you haven't,
like, started hormones

is because of your parents?

OLIVER: I think the reason
why they are so resistant

is they think, I'm pretty sure
they think it's a phase.

EJ: Yeah.

OLIVER: It's just upsetting.

EJ: Yeah.

JEAN: So this whole question

about who's gonna continue to be
trans as adolescents and adult

is, you know,
the million-dollar question

we're all trying to figure out.

We don't have an exact way
to say,

'I can guarantee that
this child will continue

identified this way
in 10, 15, 20 years.'

But what we know is that not
having this conversation

is also a risk that
we cannot afford take.

You know, the suicide rate
in the young people

or even in children
is really staggering,

so we must have those
difficult conversations.

KADO STEWART:
Statistically, almost half

of trans-identified people have
attempted or died by suicide.

That's unacceptable.

It's a question of
do we want them to live?

MAN: What are you guys most
excited about looking forward?

EJ: This is more
like a personal thing,

but I'm really excited about
my voice getting deeper.

[laughter]

My voice used to be up here,
and now it's down here,

and, like, that makes me
really happy.

KATIE: But hormones are not the
final step for a lot of people.

After that, there's an even
bigger decision ahead.

You decided to have surgery.

LINDA ROHR:
I said, 'Goodbye, Bill.'

And she became Kate.

DOCTOR: Do you plan
on undergoing

gender reassignment surgery?

MAURA: I'm gonna have to
get back to you on that one.

KATIE: For some trans people,
a definitive step in the process

brings them to Dr. Marci Bowers'
operating room.

I wanted to learn more about
Marci and her patients,

so I got on a plane
to San Francisco.

*

Hi, Marci.

MARCI BOWERS: Hi, Katie, it's
such a pleasure to meet you.

KATIE: It is so nice
to meet you.

It's hard to find someone more
personally invested in her job

than Marci Bowers, an OB/GYN
who transitioned in 1998.

Marci is feisty, friendly,
and very funny.

MARCI: Somebody called me the
Georgia O'Keeffe of genitalia.

[laughs]

KATIE: When I met her,

she was getting ready to perform
her second surgery of the day.

So it's not called gender
reassignment surgery anymore?

MARCI: Well, the idea is that

really, your gender is something
that you feel internally

at a very, very early age.

And so it really doesn't change.

So you're not
reassigning gender,

you're, you're affirming
or confirming

what you felt since
you're an early child.

KATIE: Got it.

MARCI: Or I like
gender affirmation surgery,

but then that stands for GAS
and nobody likes gas, so.

[laughs]

KATIE: So maybe gender
confirmation's a better term.

MARCI: Gender confirm,
GCS seems right.

KATIE:
Well, let's go see Allison.

MARCI: Let's go see Allison.

[knocks]

Hi, Allison, how are you?

ALLISON: Not bad, you?

MARCI: Good.
I have a special guest.

KATIE: Hi. I'm Katie. Hi.
ALLISON: Hi, I'm Allison.

KATIE: Very nice to meet you.
ALLISON: You, too.

KATIE: How are you feeling,
Allison?

ALLISON: Nervous and excited.

KATIE: Yeah?
ALLISON: Mm-hmm.

KATIE: More nervous
or more excited?

ALLISON: Mostly excited.

KATIE: Oh, good.

Can I ask you what your name was
before Allison,

or would you rather I didn't?

ALLISON: I'd prefer not.

I don't like really thinking
about my old name,

because it really isn't me
and it never really was.

KATIE: That's something
called dead naming.

I just learned that.

ALLISON: Mm-hmm.

KATIE: Explain what that is,
Allison.

ALLISON: Just the idea
that your old self,

who was a depressed person,
is effectively dead

and gave birth to
a newer, happier person.

KATIE: Well, good luck
with everything,

and thank you for
letting us talk to you

during what is, I'm sure,
an anxiety-producing time.

MARCI: Okay, sweetheart,
so we're gonna do well, okay?

ALLISON: Okay.
MARCI: Okay. Bye, baby.

ALLISON: Bye.

KATIE: How many of these
surgeries do you perform a year?

MARCI: Approximately 140 to 150
per year.

This is just the male to female.

KATIE: And what about
female to male?

MARCI: They're more difficult
surgeries to perform,

and they have more complications
that are potential.

And not all female to males

seek to have
gender confirmation surgery.

KATIE: And for those who do wish

to anatomically
go from female to male,

Marci provides a less
complicated method

which relies primarily
on testosterone.

Her waiting list
is three years long.

While some choose
not to have surgery,

there are plenty who want it,

especially now that it's being
covered by insurance

in a growing list of states.

I know that you have
more and more seniors.

MARCI: Our oldest patient
was 76,

and we've actually had
two of those.

KATIE: Wow.

MARCI: We have someone
on the schedule

apparently who's about 80.

KATIE: Really?

MARCI: And their feelings were
that they did not want to die

in their birth-assigned gender.

They wanted to die as the person
they felt themselves to be.

KATIE: From Mills-Peninsula
Medical Center,

I took the long and winding road
to Fort Bragg, California.

I was first introduced
to the Rohrs

when I watched a piece about
them by the Washington Post.

KATIE: For Kate, transitioning
has been a lifelong journey.

And unlike many other
transgender people,

she's very comfortable
talking about her past.

Bill Rohr was born in
Fanwood, New Jersey, in 1946.

KATE: When I was three or four,
I knew something was wrong.

People talk about it,

and it's been written about
being in the wrong body.

I never thought of it that way.

I just knew something was wrong.

My mother had this habit
every year

of taking the picture of the two
boys to send to everybody,

you know, the two boys
sitting together.

And we always had
the same shirt.

And one year,
I finally declared,

'I don't want to wear
my brother's shirt.'

And so she said,
'Alright. Go pick it out.'

And I went over
the girls' department

and picked out a girl's T-shirt.

She took it to the counter
and the woman said,

'You can't buy this for him.'

She said, 'Why not?'
She said, 'It's a girl's.'

And my mother had to
put it back.

The message was you're a boy,
and this is what boys do,

and you will live
the boy's life.

KATIE: And that's exactly
what he did

in the most all-American way.

In high school,
he was an A student,

lettered in varsity track and
was student council president.

Then it was on to Princeton
and later medical school.

Just as the scientific community

was starting to recognize
gender dysphoria,

Bill met a young woman
named Linda.

KATE: Yeah, it was 1966.

I had just finally read the book

that says this is
a medical condition.

It will not change.

It's somehow programmed
into the brain,

and then along comes this woman
who all of a sudden,

I'm just crazy about
and fall head over heels,

and how am I gonna
put this together?

So I said, 'Well, the genie
goes in the bottle,

put the cork on the bottle,
and I'm Bill,

and we're gonna
make a go at this.'

KATIE: Did you worry about
putting Linda in this position

knowing that you weren't really
comfortable as Bill?

KATE: The biggest challenge
I've had

through this whole transition

is a level of guilt that was
just really overwhelming

for having told her that lie
for all these years.

KATIE: After 45 years
of marriage, two children,

and a hugely successful career
as an orthopedic surgeon,

Bill finally told Linda

the one thing he'd never
admitted to anyone else.

KATE: I said, 'I don't know
how to tell you this,

but all my life, I've believed
I'm a woman, that I'm female,

and that I am therefore
transgendered.'

And I looked at her
and she started crying,

and I thought,
'Now what do I do?'

You have to understand,
all my life,

I believed my life would end

the moment another person
discovered this.

So here I'm sharing the secret,

but I'm thinking, and now
she's starting to crying,

and I'm thinking,
'This is it. It is over.'

She said, 'Well, if you told me
you had cancer,

you were gonna die,
how would I deal with that?'

She said, 'If you told me
you were gay

and really had
an affection for men,

I have nothing against that,

but where would I fit
in that picture?'

She said, 'But this is, you
still love me?' I said, 'Yes.'

LINDA: Or an affair.

I was afraid
you were having an affair

and you were gonna tell me
you found another woman

or something like that, things
that would end our marriage.

And the reason why I was crying
was more out of sadness

for the struggle that
she had lived her whole life

and that she kept it from me
and from the family

and sacrificed for us
to give us a really good life.

KATIE: I think people have
a hard time, in general,

understanding what it's like
to be transgender.

KATE: Mm-hmm.

KATIE: And I think they have
a hard time, Linda,

understanding what it's like
to be a partner of someone

who decides to transition.

LINDA: Sure.

KATIE: They are like, 'Wait,
you all are staying together?'

LINDA: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
KATE: Happily.

KATIE: How do you explain it
to them?

LINDA: Well, the way
I kind of look at it

is that we all are given
challenges in life,

and this is one challenge that
I felt that I could deal with.

I didn't come to
this conclusion overnight.

This is something
that I had thanked Kate,

had time to deal with
after this big revelation.

Um, I had to say
goodbye to Bill.

I had to grieve Bill, and
it took me a year to do that.

And Kate gave me that time
that I needed.

It was very important to her

that she would not go forward
with a transition

until I was comfortable with it,

and this was something that
we were going to do together.

I just woke up one morning
after praying about it

and asking for guidance,

and I woke up one morning

and I said, 'Okay. I'm ready.
Let's do it.'

And I was gung-ho,
and I said, 'Goodbye, Bill.'

You know, Bill's gone,
and she became Kate in my mind.

And that's how I've looked at it
ever since that day.

KATIE: I know you talked to
your son in a very manly place.

KATE: Oh, yes, of course.

KATIE: In the parking lot,

in the parking lot
of a Home Depot.

LINDA: And it was
on Father's Day!

KATE: Yeah.
KATIE: Oh, my God!

LINDA: Kate has
impeccable timing.

KATIE: Matt Rohr lives
with his wife

in Manchester, New Hampshire.

You're lucky.

I've never seen two people
who love each other

quite as much as your parents.

MATT: They definitely do.

And I'm, you know,
I'm definitely blessed

to have my parents, um...

KATE: He gets emotional.

KATIE: That's okay.

LINDA: But that's Matt.
He's a crybaby.

[laughs]

MATT: Yeah, I mean, you know,
my parents are inspirational,

regardless of
the transgender stuff.

That is just one small piece
of our family,

the transgender piece
is just one part of it,

and that's the new normal
for us, and that's great.

*

[click]

*

LINDA: They don't have
a whole lot of smell,

and you wouldn't know

because your, your sniffer
doesn't work well.

KATE: Well, it works better
since the estrogen.

There's no two ways about that.

All of a sudden,
everything smells different.

KATIE: You decided
to have surgery?

KATE: Yes.

KATIE: Um, why?
Why was that important?

KATE: If you're as trans
as I am trans,

and probably as far on the pole
as trans as one can be,

the genitalia are a marker
of something that's not you.

It's something you come
to sort of detest.

But once I have the surgery,

they can't take Kate away
from me anymore.

LINDA: How is she doing?

MARCI: She's a girl.

LINDA: She's a girl.
MARCI: Yeah.

KATIE: Linda, you are
a heterosexual woman.

LINDA: Yes, I am heterosexual.

I am not attracted to women.

The fact that my partner
now is a woman

and I have loved her
for 48 years

doesn't change
my sexual orientation.

That doesn't change.

I know people will look at me
and say,

well, because you're in
a relationship now with a woman,

that changes your label or...

KATIE: Or are you gay?

LINDA: Or are you gay?

No, I'm not, because I am not
attracted to other women,

and I would not be in another
relationship with another woman.

You know, you may not have
the traditional way

of pleasuring each other when
you are as a man and a woman,

but you, you just find
different ways

of, you know,
having that pleasure,

and it would be the same
if someone had an accident

and couldn't even
perform anymore.

But some people, again,

that is a very important part
of a relationship.

And I can understand that.

And it was very important to us
for 45 years,

and it still is important to us,
but it has changed.

KATE: I've always loved women.

I'm still attracted
to this woman.

I would not replace her
with anyone else.

Sorry, that's just the way,

you know, I just am intensely
in love with her.

LINDA: I think that love doesn't
necessarily have a gender.

It doesn't have to be
sexually oriented.

If you love someone, you're
willing to do what it takes

in order to make that work.

SABEL SAMONE-LORECA:
Even in everything

that's being done today,

I've been a victim
of a hate crime.

KATIE: But no battle
is more contentious

than the controversy
over public restrooms.

GAVIN GRIMM:
It's the Supreme Court.

I mean, this could
go really well

or it could go really wrong.

KATIE: If you want a sign of
how much things have changed,

just look at the popular
dating app, Tinder.

Tinder is now
acknowledging gender,

allowing users to choose
designations beyond the binary.

WOMAN: It lets trans people feel

like they're a part of society.

They're human.

WOMAN: Having trans people
integrated into the world.

WOMAN: You know what?

I can have what every other

person is deserving of having.

KATIE: And Tinder is just
the latest example

of how trans has become
more mainstream.

You may think given
the avalanche of media coverage

and greater visibility,

the trans people feel
more protected now.

But in fact,
many transgender people

continue to live in the shadows,

poor, unemployed, and often
the target of violence.

SABEL SAMONE-LORECA:
Even in everything else

that's being done today,
trans women are being killed.

I've been a victim
of a hate crime,

but a lot of us don't even have
the strength to go to the court

or the strength to report a
crime that has been done to us

because we're constantly being

pushed down by society

and stating that we're,

we are less than.

KATIE: In 2016, more transgender
people were murdered

than any other year on record.

And the unemployment rate
among them in this country

is twice the national average.

For trans people of color, it's
four times the national average.

But someone is trying
to change that.

WOMAN: Yes, I did two.

KATIE: Michaela Mendelsohn,

a trans woman who owns
six El Pollo Loco franchises

in the Los Angeles area.

She's been making
a concerted effort

to hire trans workers
at her restaurants.

MICHAELA MENDELSOHN:
I realized how lucky I was

to have transitioned as a boss.

You know, what I saw was
that trans women,

their self-esteem was so low

because of the way
they were treated,

that they were starting
to accept this as, as normal,

that they were starting to
almost believe they deserved it.

And this just wasn't right.

That's when I decided to start
helping trans people get jobs.

KATIE: At the restaurant
I visited in Central LA,

a third of the staff is trans.

KATIE: Both of you worked
in other fast food restaurants.

What about you, Kristy, and what
was that like compared to this?

KATIE: So, you got fired?

KATIE: And what did he say?

KATIE: Your nose was broken
by a customer?

KATIE: Really?
JESSYE: Mm-hmm.

KATIE: Because of your,
your gender identity?

MARIE: We work hard and
we have struggled from day one.

And here, I could be myself.

Our customers get educated
just, just by seeing us here,

just seeing her in a position
of leadership,

seeing her in a position
of leadership, seeing me there,

in a position where I am
interacting with them,

and I'm providing a service
of excellency,

they know now that
we are capable of that,

that we're no longer
just someone

who has to dedicate
to street work.

Now, this is an individual

that is also capable
of doing much more.

KATIE: What do you hope
to be doing in 10 years?

MARIE: Well, I want to be
a person like Michaela

who are able to empower
other women like us

to be better and then
to truly help this community.

KATIE: Well, I think
you're doing that already.

Don't you?

MARIE: Well, we hope we are.

KRISTY: You have Melvin's
Ultimate Bowl, right? Good.

MICHAELA: We get
more compliments

on our trans employees
than anybody else,

because they are thriving.

It's the first time
in their lives

they get a chance to work
as their authentic self.

MICHAELA: 25% of the trans women
I've hired

have made it into management,

and it speaks of their attitude
of being so appreciative

and so happy to be doing
what they're doing.

KATIE: While Michaela's
changing the lives

of her trans employees
in California,

other states have
joined the fight.

19 have passed laws
prohibiting employers

from discriminating on the basis
of gender identity.

But no battle is more
contentious than the controversy

over transgender rights
and public restrooms.

PROTESTERS: HB2 has got to go!

KATIE: The North Carolina
legislature passed a law

known as HB2 in March of 2016,

stating that individuals
must use the bathroom

that correlates with the gender
on their birth certificate.

But in May, citing Title IX,

the Obama Administration
directed public schools

to allow trans students
to use the bathrooms

that matched
their gender identity.

LORETTA LYNCH:
To the transgender community,

we see you, and we will do
everything we can

to protect you.

KATIE: 11 states then sued
the federal government,

and a fiery national debate
erupted.

PASTOR: This must be
a movement of love

and a movement of justice!

WOMAN: I strongly believe
there will be cases of rape.

JAMES INHOFE:
Our nation's schools

should not be ground zero

for social experiments
from liberal agenda.

KATIE: And now, one case
is heading all the way

to the Supreme Court.

*

Ground zero in the fight
over transgender bathrooms

is this quiet town
in southern Virginia.

The unlikely face at the center

of it all, Gavin Grimm.

You're not skipping school,
are you?

GAVIN GRIMM: No, I'm not,
I have an early out.

KATIE: Okay. Good.

I came to meet this 17-year-old

and his pot-bellied pig,
Esmeralda.

[oinking]

Hey, Esmeralda, how you doing?

GAVIN: She'll rub on your leg,
so...

KATIE: She will?
GAVIN: Yeah.

KATIE: Okay. Whoa!

GAVIN: There she goes.

KATIE: Yeah, she really is.

Hey, how you doing?

Getting to know you, Esmeralda.

[oinking]

Gavin was born a girl
but never felt like one.

Gavin initially thought,
I'm a lesbian,

but that didn't
feel right either.

He'd never even heard
the word transgender,

but then something on YouTube
changed everything.

MAN: I am transgender,
I do consider myself male.

KATIE: When you realized
you were trans,

you actually went to the doctor.

GAVIN: I went to
a gender therapist

who specialized in seeing
transgender youth,

and it was very apparent to her
very quickly

that transition had to be done
as quickly as we possibly could,

because I was suffering greatly.

KATIE: You and your mom

went to school

when you were a sophomore,

you explained to the school

what was going on.

And my understanding is your
high school was pretty accepting

and receptive, is that accurate?

GAVIN: I was assured
that I would be respected

at the school,

I would be called
exclusively Gavin

and exclusively
by male pronouns.

KATIE:
At Gloucester High School,

Gavin initially used the
bathroom in the nurse's office,

but it was inconvenient
to get to from his classes,

and since he was already
using the men's room

at restaurants
and movie theaters,

he asked the principal if
he could do the same at school.

The principal agreed,

and Gavin says he used
the boys' room without incident

for nearly two months.

GAVIN: For me, it was a matter
of going in and going out

and minding my own business

as most everyone does
in a bathroom.

KATIE: But then the school board
got involved.

WOMAN: We do not want a policy

of biological boys
and biological girls

in the same facilities where an
expectation of privacy exists.

There is no state or federal law

that overrides
my students' right

to his and her expectation
of privacy.

[applause]

GAVIN: There was a large amount
of negativity

and just rudeness and cruelty,

and just this complete
abandonment of basic values

that, that people should keep,

which is, you know,
your typical, be nice to people

and don't call a kid a freak,
you know, that sort of thing.

KATIE: Is that what
they called you?

GAVIN: Yeah.

MAN: Bathrooms are divided
by sex, not gender,

not some made-up term
that some organization

wants you to believe
is the truth.

WOMAN: It's not fair for our
students to have to be fearful

to go into their own restroom.

Put him in a separate bathroom
if that's what it's gonna take,

and I will vote every single
one of you off of this board

if you do not protect
our children.

GAVIN: It was a lot
of that dialogue,

the straw man
evil transgender faker

going into hurt women and girls
in restrooms,

and other arguments which
absolutely held no water.

Being transgender does not
make you a sexual deviant

or a criminal or a predator.

MAN: How can you tolerate
a public attitude

that attacks children

who are uncomfortable with pure
and simple public indecency?

Thank you.

[cheering]

KATIE: The sentiment at that
school board meeting

seemed to be that you made
the other boys feel awkward.

GAVIN: Um...

People will be uncomfortable

with a thousand different people
in their lifetimes,

and you can't kick them
out of public living

because you don't like them.

KATIE: Another argument
in this community,

which is a deeply
religious community,

is this is against God's will.

What would you say to them?

GAVIN: Quite frankly, I don't
care about religious arguments,

because at its core,

it has no place in lawmaking

and legislation
and policy making.

Hello, everybody,

I'm Gavin Grimm from
Gloucester High School.

KATIE: How scary was it to speak
at that school board meeting?

GAVIN: I had absolutely no idea
what I was about to experience,

but I knew I had to do it.

I've been aware of who I was
since I was a very young kid,

and it's taken me
a very long time

to be able to be myself
and be okay with that.

The person I am now, being able
to have all of my rights in full

is such a massive,
dynamic difference

from the person I was
just last summer.

I would like to say, too,

that if the evidence said
that me using the boys' room

would be catastrophic, I would
not be advocating for myself.

Regardless of my personal
emotions over this issue,

I look only at the facts,
as one should in an issue

that requires separation
of church and state

and feelings and state.

KATIE: The school board ruled

Gavin could no longer use
the men's room.

Instead, they gave him
the option

to use three unisex bathrooms.

Something Gavin
wasn't interested in.

GAVIN: The problem is, I'm not
looking for a compromise,

I'm not looking for
separate but equal,

I'm looking for
the same opportunities

that my peers enjoy
every single day,

and that includes using the same
restroom as any other student.

KATIE: When you first learned
your case was going to be heard

before the Supreme Court,
what was your reaction?

GAVIN: The Supreme Court aspect
of it is daunting,

if only because
it's the Supreme Court.

I mean, this could
go really well

or it could go really wrong,

and I have to be prepared
for that reality.

But regardless of what happens,
the end will justify the means,

because even if
we suffer a loss,

we've generated a conversation

that's moved the nation
in the right direction,

and if we win,
and it's after I graduate,

I'm still doing good
for a lot of other kids.

ISAAC: My name is Isaac,
and I use he, him, his.

MALLET: He, him, his.

MATTHEW: They, them, their.

KATIE: They, them, theirs?

My name is Katie
and I use she, her, hers.

[laughter]

It's all a lot to wrap
your head around, you know.

PROTESTERS: Our lives matter!

Free from fear!

BARACK OBAMA:
That's why we defend people

who are lesbian, gay, bisexual,
or transgender.

KATIE: While the battle
over bathrooms

faces an uncertain future...

PROTESTERS: Hey, hey, ho, ho,
HB2 has got to go.

KATIE: Some institutions
are taking matters

into their own hands.

Where would you say Yale falls

in terms of being most
accommodating or progressive

when it comes to these issues?

TAMAR SZABÓ GENDLER: Yale's,
I think, ahead of things.

We did an inventory
of the bathrooms on campus,

and we discovered that

in virtually every one of
our central campus buildings,

there was
a single-stall bathroom

that we could just re-mark
and indicate

that it was for not one gender
or the other or both,

but rather for all genders.

KATIE: What happens if
a Yale freshman girl

objected to having a transgender
woman as a roommate,

would you say that was violating

that transgender woman's
civil rights?

TAMAR: So, gender identity
and gender expression

are protected categories,

and Yale is committed to
treating protected categories

in ways that the laws governing
civil rights of this country

tell us we need to.

KATIE: So basically, you would
say, this is the way it is.

TAMAR: Yes.

* [Pomp and Circumstance
playing] *

KATIE: Yale is dealing with
the gender revolution

in other ways as well.

TAMAR: One of the things
that became evident to us

is that a number of schools,
most schools, in fact,

were issuing diplomas
in students' birth names

rather than
in their affirmed names.

And Yale made a decision
late last spring

to issue diplomas in
the affirmed names of students

who had used those names
throughout their time at Yale.

KATIE: At times,
do you feel like,

whoa, whoa, whoa, it's too fast,
it's making me dizzy?

TAMAR: So, universities
are places that thrive

on new discovery,

and I think universities
find it thrilling

to feel, like, in the face
of new knowledge,

we are able to figure out

how to transform society
as a consequence.

KATIE: Our understanding
of gender these days

depends on how old you are.

MAN: Younger people
are more open

to exploring new ideas
of what gender is.

WOMAN: I think it's a lot less
black and white now

than it used to be.

MAN: I don't believe in
binary-ness at all in nature,

I believe that everything
is a spectrum

when you really look at it
closely enough.

KATIE: I realized how much
things had changed,

when my college-age daughter
told me she and other students

introduced themselves
in some classes

with their names
and their pronouns.

ISAAC: My name is Isaac, I'm
a senior and I use he, him, his.

MALLET: Mallet, I am a junior,
he, him his.

KATIE: My name is Katie,
and I use she, her...

ISAAC: Hers.
KATIE: Hers.

[laughter]

MATTHEW: My name is Matthew,
and I am a junior,

and I use they, them, their.

KATIE: They, them, theirs?

What exactly does it mean to be
they, them, and theirs?

PERSON: When I was first
going through

the initial stages
of my transition,

there was a time period where
I was trying to get people

to use he, him, his.

I'm like, that was maybe
less wrong than she, her, hers,

but wasn't quite right either.

So I started out trying out,
they, them, theirs,

and I was just like, this feels
good, like, this feels right.

MATTHEW: People are
always saying,

oh, but they is
a plural pronoun,

like, how can I refer

to single person that way.

But in my head, I think,

well, I am plural.

I contain multitudes, I am vast.

KATIE: These aren't just
new concepts,

there's also an entirely
new vocabulary,

and I decided I was going
to be the student.

What is cisgender?

MALLET: It's me.
[laughter]

I think it just means that

you identify with the gender

you're assigned at birth.

KATIE: In this group, you are
the lone cisperson, correct?

MALLET: Yeah.

KATIE: Except for I am, too,

so, just so you don't
get too lonely.

MALLET: Okay.

KATIE: What is pangender?

PERSON: Being pangender
would be to identify

with a multitude of genders
as opposed to saying bigender,

which literally means
two genders.

KATIE: What is AFAB?

PERSON:
Assigned female at birth,

so it gives you, kind of, like,

one way to define where
you started from.

KATIE: Is there AMAB?

ALL: Yes. Mm-hmm.

PERSON: There's also designate,

like, people
interchangeably use,

like, assigned and designated,
male or female at birth.

PERSON:
So DFAB, DMAB, AFAB, AMAB.

KATIE: Okay, that's helpful.

PERSON: Oh!

PERSON: I know, and I couldn't,

I actually couldn't believe it.

KATIE: And what does that,
what does that mean?

PERSON: It's like this idea that
trans, like, that they are,

there's a subgroup within
the trans community

that are just doing
what's trendy.

KATIE: But that I don't think is
a totally foreign notion,

that there's a certain element
of trendiness to this,

which must really
gall you, I'm sure.

PERSON: I think, like, it's okay
for people to question,

you know, and to decide,
like, to question,

and then say,
oh, no, I'm actually,

I'm cis like I thought I was.

Okay, you know, but to say
that that person

is just a transtrender,
you know.

PERSON: That's in labeling
other people.

But, like, if somebody is
calling you a transtrender,

like, if somebody told me that,
I'd just be like...

KATIE: What's gender fluid?

MATTHEW: Gender fluid means
that your gender expression

and identity shifts through time

on different days,
different weeks.

KATIE: It's all a lot to wrap
your head around, you know,

so I really appreciate you all
helping me understand it,

because, you know,
as a 59-year-old cis female...

[laughter]

It's tough.

Some people watching this
might wonder

what the heck is going on here?

Why are we suddenly seeing
such huge changes

in the way people are
looking at their gender?

MATTHEW: I think the Internet

actually has a lot
to do with this.

Websites like Tumblr,

they bring lots of kids together
from across the country

where they can all voice their
questions about themselves.

ISAAC: For me, Facebook
is a source of support

that a year ago to this date,
maybe, I posted a status saying,

'I'm transgender,' and that was
huge, and I got like 500 likes,

and you know,
people messaged me on Facebook

and were like, I support you
and I send my love.

I'm really happy that
I exist in the 21st century.

PERSON: But it's not sudden,
it's not new.

I mean, people who might
identify as trans,

they've always existed
in cultures

for as long as
we've had history,

and we find it now
everywhere across the world.

KATIE: In fact,
there are other cultures

that do not follow our
Western notion of the binary.

To learn more about that,
I met up with Dr. Paul Vasey,

an anthropologist who's been
doing research in Samoa

for the last 10 years.

How did you get interested in
studying how gender is seen

really around the world?

PAUL VASEY: The cultures I study
are unique

from a Western perspective,

because they recognize

more than two genders,

so there are people
in these societies

that are neither men
nor are they women,

they're something else.

In Samoa for example,

there are feminine,
same-sex attracted males

that are not men
and they're not women,

they're called fa'afafine, which
means in the manner of a woman.

KATIE: Are they men...

Well, not men,
but anatomically men?

PAUL: Yeah.

KATIE: And externally
sort of something else?

I'm really struggling here,
aren't I?

PAUL: Yeah. That's normal.

I mean, these are, these are
kind of complicated concepts

when you start mixing
and matching

all these different
identity categories

and gender variants, exactly.

They certainly look
highly feminine.

From our cultural perspective,

we would identify them
as transgender,

but that's not really a word
that exists in those cultures.

In these cultures,

the individuals aren't
recognized as men or women,

they're a third alternative
altogether.

*

KATIE: How are these
individuals treated?

Are they tolerated,
are they celebrated?

PAUL: What's striking
for any Westerner

is how fully integrated

these people are in the society.

So you go out and you are going
to see these people

in the market.

You got to a restaurant, your
server could be a fa'afafine.

In Samoa, the prime minister

is the patron of
the Fa'afafine Association,

which gives you some idea
of how accepted they are.

LESINA: I was raised by
my grandmother as a fa'afafine.

TANIA: Most of the family
over here in Samoa,

they have at least one or two
fa'afafine in the family.

My family, it's about
seven or more.

We still see some younger ones
coming up,

and nobody can stop it.

PAUL: My research shows
time and time again

how important the fa'afafine
are for the family.

That important role they play
in terms of sustaining

and taking care of the family

couldn't be carried out
if they were tossed aside.

KATIE: But Samoa isn't
the only place

to recognize a third gender.

In India, the hijra have been
a part of society

for thousands of years

and are legally recognized as
a third sex by the government.

And in Mexico,
you'll find the muxe

from the southern state
of Oaxaca.

The muxe aren't just
acknowledged,

but highly revered
and even celebrated

with a yearly festival.

And there's evidence that this
isn't just a modern construct,

but an ancient truth.

In the Talmud,

sacred Jewish text dating back
thousands of years,

there are not just two genders.

ELLIOT KUKLA:
So there are six genders

in classical Jewish texts.

We don't know exactly

what these genders are,

but they doing were something

completely different

with gender.

To me, it shows that
we were there, you know,

there were people that were
beyond male and female,

and it also shows that
they had a system

that was clearly not binary.

KATIE: What do you think about
what you're witnessing

for the Western world
when it comes to gender?

PAUL: I mean, I've been

so blessed, so lucky,

to get to spend so much of

my life in these other cultures

where transgender individuals

are so socially unproblematic.

And that is the pathway
down which we should go.

When you integrate people
into the society,

the family ends up benefitting,

and the society as a whole
ends up benefitting.

KATIE: Renee, you transitioned
in 1975,

but you see gender
as quite binary.

RENEE RICHARDS: A binary is
appealing and I like it.

HARI NEF: Men, women,
boys, girls, pink, blue--

if that didn't exist, wouldn't
your life have been easier?

KATIE: When it comes to gender,

it seems so much has changed
in such a short period of time.

So I thought it would be
instructive to talk to someone

who's been on the cutting edge
of this conversation

for decades.

This golf course is huge,
isn't it?

RENEE RICHARDS:
Oh, it's spectacular.

KATIE: Now, are you
a super good golfer?

RENEE: No.
KATIE: You're not?

RENEE: I mean,
it's very frustrating,

because I was
a good tennis player,

and you would expect that you're
suddenly gonna be just as good

at golf, and it does not happen.

KATIE: It doesn't translate?

Born Richard Raskind,

Renee Richards
transitioned in 1975

at a time when transgender
was not part of the lexicon.

For a year,
she lived under the radar

until she entered and won
a women's tennis tournament

in California.

The next day, a journalist
outed her as trans,

creating a media firestorm

and turning Renee
into a household name.

She was also the first
transgender woman

to play in the US Open,
a right she earned

only after she sued
the US Tennis Association

for gender discrimination
and won.

RENEE: I got a good tee for you.
KATIE: Is that okay?

RENEE: Because it's pink
for a girl.

KATIE: Oh, thank you.

I thought we were getting away
from the pink and blue stuff.

RENEE: No, no, I'm not.

I never have and never will.

Now, take a practice swing.

There you go.

KATIE: I'm not a big golfer,
Renee.

RENEE: I'm gonna give you
a mulligan.

KATIE: Okay. Thank you.

RENEE: Do you know what
a mulligan is?

KATIE: Yeah, a do-over.

RENEE: Oh, that's what you could
say about my life, huh?

KATIE: You're a human mulligan.

Renee was the trans it-girl
of her time.

So who better to join us than
another trans it-girl, Hari Nef.

A successful
international model,

Hari has become a fixture
in fashion and popular culture.

She's also one of the breakout
stars of Transparent.

Renee, you're 82 now.

Hari, you're 23.

HARI NEF: Yeah.

KATIE: First and foremost,
what is it like for you, Hari,

meeting Renee
for the first time?

[laughs]

HARI: Um...

It's like meeting,
like, a postcard

or like meeting
George Washington,

you know what I mean?

Her visibility and her advocacy
has absolutely paved the way

for folks like me
in the contemporary moment.

KATIE: Renee,
you transitioned in 1975,

but you say that word
didn't really even exist.

RENEE: No, there was
no such a word then.

KATIE: But it must have
been so lonely.

RENEE: It was very lonely.

And when I had my surgery, there
was only one person who knew,

and that was my cousin.

And the goal was
essentially to undergo

a complete transformation and
then merge into the woodwork.

We were woodworking--

a new life with a new name
and a new place.

So, there is tremendous
change now.

I don't think that Hari's life
is a pink cloud by any means,

but I'm sure that it's different
than it was in my day

with many of the same problems,

but with perhaps fortunately
not all of them.

KATIE: Hari, it seems to me
you see gender as something

that can evolve, and
that's something that is fluid.

And, Renee, you see gender
as still quite binary.

RENEE: I don't think
she sees gender as fluid.

HARI: Well, I do.

RENEE: You do?

KATIE: I think she just
threw you shade, Renee.

RENEE: How is it fluid?

[laughs]

KATIE: Wait, well,
let's talk about that,

because you see a very distinct

male/female binary gender
situation, don't you, Renee?

RENEE: I had a very happy life
for 40 years as a man,

and I'm having a very happy life
for 40 years as a woman.

But that doesn't mean
that I'm gender fluid.

HARI: I think we're actually
more on the same page on this

than it seems.

Like, it is absolutely a binary
society that we live in,

but I believe that no single
person is inherently gendered.

Male and female, it's just,
it's just wisps of smoke,

and if something works for you
in a moment,

then you can embrace it,

and if other parts of it don't,
you can get rid of it.

KATIE: Do you feel comfortable
with that,

because even when
we were playing golf,

you gave me a pink tee,

and I said, 'Aren't we beyond
the pink and blue stuff?'

and you said, 'No.'

RENEE: No, well, I'm really not

beyond the pink and blue stuff
because...

KATIE: Tell me about that.

RENEE: To me,
the idea of a binary

is what I think the world is,
it's the spice of life,

that's what makes us keep going.

And I think that it's appealing,
and I like it.

And I know that
there are in-betweens,

and I know that there are
all kinds of percentages

that people are.

And that's fine.

But basically, the fact is

we are born with either
two chromosomes,

or an X and a Y,

and you can't undo that.

HARI: Well, you can't
undo chromosomes,

but in terms of the binary,
you know,

you're saying you're comfortable
with the binary

and you like the binary,

but, you know, you know,
you're my trans elder,

I don't want to be insolent,

but isn't the binary something

that has caused you
a lot of pain in your life?

Like, if the binary
didn't exist,

like, would there have been
so much drama about you

in being outed, and you know,
so much, you know...

RENEE: No, none.

HARI: Right, so much secrecy.

But if the world didn't
have such a, you know,

pardon my French, hard-on
for, like, you know, men, women,

boys, girls, pink, blue,

like, if that fetish--
and I believe it is fetish--

if that didn't exist, wouldn't
your life have been easier?

RENEE: It wouldn't
have been life,

it wouldn't have been real.

HARI: I guess it's,
I guess it's...right.

Well, see, I'm still
in my idealistic early 20s.

RENEE: That wouldn't
have been real.

KATIE: So what are you hoping
the future will bring?

HARI:
I want a gender-chill future.

RENEE: There is no such a thing.

HARI: I want community,
a society, a world...

RENEE: God help us.

HARI: ...that just chills out.

RENEE: Hari, stop it.

HARI: About the freaking
gender thing!

RENEE: What you're advocating
is a utopia.

It doesn't and never will exist.

KATIE: Maybe it's just
a generational divide.

HARI: I think
it's a generational divide.

RENEE: You know, this is
education for me, too.

KATIE: Yeah.

RENEE: This is revolutionary
for me to hear her.

KATIE: So we're all getting
an education.

HARI: It's equally important
for me to hear you, too.

KATIE: As the sun set over
the Sleepy Hollow Country Club,

I realized I had finished
the back nine

of my quest to learn more
about this gender revolution.

I had traveled
all over the country

talking to surgeons,
scientists, and students,

and in the process,
got quite an education.

We're all a lot more complicated
than we've assumed.

SAM: If a person is a man and
they're attracted to women,

they might call themselves
straight or heterosexual.

KATIE: Or cisgender.
Oh, no, sorry!

Wrong, wrong, sorry, sorry.

It's a brave new world,
and for many of us,

it will require
some getting used to.

MATTHEW: I think that
radical patience

is so important on both ends.

KATIE: I heard some
amazing stories.

Nice.

Stories that are
very different from my own.

Do I look like the weird aunt?

[laughter]

I also met some
incredible people,

people living their lives,
loving their families,

supporting each other,

and paving the way
for the next generation

as they share their hopes
and dreams for the future.

BRIAN: There is change coming.

It is a relief.

PERSON: What I want to see
in the future

is any form of self-expression

being viewed
as completely normal.

ISAAC: I hope that
our generation

can help this generation

of elementary, middle
and high school kids

to be more comfortable
in their own skin.

KATE: And someday
we'll embrace it,

and hopefully we'll find
we gained a lot of happier,

more productive human beings
as a result.

SAM: I like to imagine a future

where we support
gender creativity.

BRIAN: The bus has taken off.
The world is changing.

GAVIN: It's moving
towards acceptance,

and every subsequent generation,

I feel gets more open-minded
and more tolerant

and more accepting

and more loving.

MATTHEW: This gender revolution
didn't start with us,

and isn't gonna end with us.

MICHAELA: They're forging
their own way,

so I call that
the gender evolution

rather than
the gender revolution,

and you ain't see nothing yet.

[laughs]