All language subtitles for Icons.Unearthed.S06E04.Bat.Nipples.and.Ice.1080p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DDP2.0.H.264-BTN_track4_[eng]

Despite
Batman Returns, having earned
close to $270,000,000

against an $80,000,000 budget

Warner Bros. hit
the eject button
on Tim Burton.

It was considered
too dark.

I remember seeing it
in a theater

and parents dragging
their screaming,
crying kids out.

You know, the Penguin
is too gruesome.

Remember me?
I'm Fred's hand.

Catwoman was too sexy.

Too much leather
and whips.

And that's not good for,
you know, kids.

And the reason
why kids were
so important was...

Toys... toys.

It's Batman.

Like you've
never seen him before.

- Money.
- Happy Meals.

- Lunchboxes.
- Action figures.

Cool gadgets.

The Batmobile,
the Batcave.

The badass costumes.

It was a big deal
because in those days

those kind
of ancillary deals

were very monetarily important.

To get them back
into the cinemas,

Warner Bros. decided to...

Get a director
from a completely
different genre.

To reboot the franchise...

To re-emerge.

He was an odd choice.

- Who they hoped...
- Could bring a whole
fresh approach.

But a brighter, lighter style.

Well, they got that...

It sounds like a good idea,
but have you thought
it through?

And a whole lot more.

I had some misgivings
about our director.

He and Batman
didn't see eye to eye.

Inappropriate behavior.

So he'd tell people that
the next time
we worked together,

he was going to get
into my pants.

A nasty character.

I was imagining
Alicia Silverstone

trying to fit
into this costume.

He should have just
been fired...

- In fighting.
- Tommy Lee Jones,

he just whispers
in his ear.

I hate you.
I really hate you.

And incompetent.

Visually, it was
really shocking to me.

Left both
Batman Forever

and Batman and Robinin a ton of trouble.

When you see George
in it, you just see ER.

You know, and you're like...
all right, so is he gonna
operate on us

or what? Is he gonna
save the day?

In 1993

Warner Bros. announced
Tim Burton's successor

to helm the new Batman film
Batman Forever.

Joel Schumacher.

A well-established,
respectable director.

[Ve Neill] Terrific to work with,

goofy and fun.

[Joe Sabatino] He's an actor's director.

Very empowering.

[Elliot Goldenthal] Very theatrical,

wonderful artistic disposition.

However, all the projects
that he did,

they were nothing
like Batman.

Joel Schumacher
was known for films such as...

Falling Down.

Flatliners.

One one thousand,
two one thousand...

The Client.

You bastard!

And along with
several other serious
adult themed films,

had some thinking...

He was an odd choice.

But he'd also madeThe Lost Boys

and this is the movie
that I think

you can look to
and say, this is why
they picked him.

[David] Tried
to make you immortal.

[Michael] You tried
to make me a killer.

[Nasr] There's
a striking balance
of tone in Lost Boys

that the horror fans
love it.

The comedy fans love it.

It's family, teens.

[Bill Gerber] It was Mark Canton's idea

for Joel to get involved.

Studios are littered
with sameness.

I want to use that guy
'cause he already made
that movie.

I didn't want to use
a director that you felt...

you had been there before.

Joel Schumacher,
who I had done Lost Boys with,

was the way to go.

Joel signed on
with ideas of his own
for the franchise.

[Michael Uslan] Joel had some
initial thoughts, kind of

based on the Tim Burton stuff.

Warner Bros. pointed him

in a slightly
different direction.

Joel Schumacher was told
by the studios,

could you make it
less violent?

Can you make
it brighter?

Can you make it less dark?

It seemed
the major tonal misstep
of Batman Returns

had caused Warner Bros.
to completely

rethink their approach
to the franchise.

[Canton] Merchandise and stuff
like that took a hit.

That was a big thing.

There's a lot
of accountability

and there's a lot
of financial responsibility.

But was
this bat-signaling
a return to the days gone by?

Holy jack in the box.

The days Michael Uslan...

What do you do when you have
the rights to Batman?

...tirelessly worked
to leave behind.

[Uslan] I understood where
they were coming from.

When the studio gets hit
with complaints...

[TV host] You saw about
thirty minutes of it before
you left?

I didn't like it.

- [TV host] No?
Did it scare you?
- Yes.

I had to step back
and say, "Okay,

taking it in new directions

that's part of the
financial considerations."

Warner's
quickly identified

one key ingredient
to bringing back

those toy loving kids.

After two attempts
of trying to get Robin
and the Batman films,

they decide third time's
the charm.

You know what
this means?

[Robert Greenberger] Robin, the kid's
identification character,

they were too young
to be Batman.

But boy, could they
be Robin.

Send Chief O'Hara up
to the roof

and have him flash
the bat signal.

Well, certainly.
If you say so,
Boy Wonder.

Aside from helping
to bring young kids

back to the theater,

Robin provided
a deeper function.

[Chuck Dixon] There's Batman,
there's Robin, there's Alfred.

And without Robin and Alfred,

the Batman isn't relatable.

He's just
a lonely psychotic.

But while Warner's
was banking on Robin

luring kids back
into the theaters,

they'd need more
than that

to bring in the serious cash
they were looking for.

Warners wanted more villains.

Because you're going
to sell more toys.

And with comic books'
most envied rogues' gallery

there were a lot
to choose from.

The Riddler and Two-Face...

Were deemed
the worthiest adversaries.

[Uslan] The idea of using
the Riddler

and Two-Face was like
taking the success

from the first movie
of Joker,

and bisecting the character.

So you had the maniacal
over the top version,

and then you had the killer.

Two villains
for one, splendid. However,

The Riddler
and Two-Face

weren't the only double act.

The screenwriting duo
of Lee and

Janet Scott Batchler,

were brought in
to write the script.

[Victoria Bennett] So, Schumacher says
to the Batchlers,

this is a comic book movie.

We need to play that up.
We need to have wild sets,

wild action sequences

and we need to take all
the merchandising into account
while we do it.

- [Bruce] He boosted the Jag?
- [Alfred] Not the Jaguar.

- The other car.
- [Bruce] The Bentley?

However, the pair
were light on experience.

They hit a wall, so,
they bring in Akiva Goldsman.

Goldsman had just
come off a Schumacher's,
previous film, The Client.

To push it even further
into the direction

of what the studio wanted.

Joel now had
to convince the A-list

of Hollywood talent
to be involved.

Luckily, he had Michael Keaton,

or so he thought.

At first it seemed like
we would get a Batman III

- with Michael Keaton.
- I'm Batman.

But they did not see
eye to eye

on the approach
of the film.

So they had a parting
of the ways.

[Nasr] And then they
really wanted Ethan Hawke.

Ethan Hawke
at the time was considered
the darling of the indie scene.

- So inevitably...
- Ethan Hawke
turned the role down.

They then
went after a gun,
a Top Gun.

- Val Kilmer.
- Maverick.

He was a star.

It's not your flying.
It's your attitude.

[Nasr] Joel had really thought
that Val would make

a great complex hero.

I mean, look at The Doors.

Look at Tombstone.

He was at the top
of his game.

But it wasn't just
Val's acting reputation

that preceded him.

Val Kinler had a reputation
for being difficult
to work with.

He's the kind
of guy who you know,
wouldn't stay in touch

with the production company
when he was supposed
to arrive.

And didn't really seem
to care that it was a problem
for anybody else.

Piece of shit.

You're everyone's problem.

Schumacher got assurances
that he would be

on his best behavior
when he was on set.

Exactly.

So,
with Val promising
to behave,

it was time to find
his sidekick, however...

This, you know,
minor living with
a bachelor millionaire,

and all the implications
that might go with that.

Uh, of course,
that would never work.

And not to mention...

[Greenberger] They don't want
children imitating

and getting hurt.

They didn't want
to condone 12-year-olds

running around at night.

So they went with a much
older Chris O'Donnell.

I could definitely get
into this superhero gig.

For Chris despite
being familiar
to audiences...

He'd already been
in Scent of a Woman
and everything.

Playing Robin was
his first tentpole
film experience.

[Ingrid Ferrin] He was excited. It was like
Christmas for him

to get this role.

Chris was fantastic,
and I said, Chris, you need
to have a pierced ear

'cause I just thought that was
a nice touch for him to have,

and he let me pierce
his ear.

The next
big question was who would
play the Riddler?

Every comedian
or serious actor

was considered
for the Riddler.

Famously, Robin Williams.

[Bennett] Schumacher flew out
to San Francisco

to take a meeting with him
where they discussed the role.

And Robin said...
No.

But there was one possibility.

A huge star, who,
like the Riddler,

was known to leave audiences
scratching their heads.

Seems like we're
gonna have to find
our own yellow brick road.

[Greenberger] Michael Jackson wanted to be

a film star, but

I think Michael Jackson,
as anything

but an original
film character

would have drawn you away
from the source material.

Adios, amigos.

But Schumacher
had no such qualms

with one A-list megastar.

Thank you, thank you so much.

Jim Carrey was so hot,
coming off of Dumb and Dumber

and The Mask and Ace Ventura.

And so, to have him play
the Riddler, I thought
was a huge get.

And even though
Billy Dee Williams

still hoped he might
have a chance

at completing
his transformation
into Two-Face

after playing Harvey Dent...

- People of Gotham City...
- ...in the first movie.

I wanted to do it
because I really wanted

to move on to doing
a Two-Face.

You win some,
you lose some.

Joel Schumacher cast
Tommy Lee Jones.

[Nasr] Joel Schumacher had
worked with Tommy Lee Jones

the year prior, in The Client.

That's blackmail, Miss Love.

Indict me, Reverend Roy.

And Nicole Kidman
was cast as Bruce Wayne's
love interest.

They created the character
of Dr. Chase Meridian.

Nicole Kidman stepped in.

Lovely person, beautiful.

A wonderful actress.

I'm flattered.

Not every girl makes
a superhero's night table.

The addition
of Drew Barrymore
and Debi Mazar

as Sugar and Spice,

rounded out the casting.

But what no one knew
was just how crazy

things were about
to become.

Gadgets and vehicles,
you know, they wanted it.

They pushed it
to the extreme.

With the Batman Forever cast
locked in place,

the race was now on
for Joel and his team

to complete pre-production,

with shooting set to begin
in just four months' time.

They were
redesigning everything

in the way that
Joel Schumacher thought,

this is my Gotham City.

This is my Batman.

With a budget
of $100,000,000,

it was the most expensive film
of his career.

And Joel planned on spending
every penny of it.

His assignment was
to make

these movies
light and bright.

Great entertainment, popcorn,
you know.

Donning
the cape again

was head costume designer
Bob Ringwood.

[Jose Fernandez] Bob was very creative,

very flamboyant.

Yeah, interesting guy.

Costume sculptor
Jose Fernandez

had worked under Bob Ringwood

on Tim Burton's Batman Returns.

Just a really great
fun experience.

However,
on Batman Forever

the experience was
slightly different.

In films you get reference
to, like, exact blueprints,
if you will.

But on this film,
it was really loose.

When I I got to do
the suit,

it was never actually
a drawing.

It was just inspiration.

And,
as Jose found out, inspiration

could come from anywhere.

Bob, he would
bring these books in.
And it was just gay porn.

He's like, this is what
you should look for,
for inspiration.

But I think that's when

it kind of started going
off the rails a little bit,

and I'm like, "Okay but,
I'm just not really into that."

So I put it aside.

And I remember
Roman armor has

belly buttons, nipples.
"I'm like, well, why not?"

It's kind of an armored suit.

So I proposed it
to Bob Ringwood,

and he thought, sure,
it sounds great.

Bob was all in
and there were
no buts about it.

Actually, there was
one but...

He would come in
and look at the suit,
make a few comments,

and he would go
to the backside of Batman.

He would tell me
when you see Batman's ass,

you should think
you want to fuck it.

But it wasn't just
a costume's backside
getting attention.

Joel Schumacher would come in
and just really be
all over me.

I was like, okay.

The unwanted attention
was soon followed up

with some direction
from a senior member
of the crew.

For Joel, keep your hair down

and wear some shorts.

And I remember just
kind of thinking,

I'm just trying to make
the cool Batman

and then I have all
this stuff.

Fortunately, well yeah,
I'm a little older now.

I don't have those
kind of issues anymore.

Jose wasn't
the only person
in demand.

Joel Schumacher had
taken a shine

to composer
Elliott Goldenthal.

This time, though,
in a much more
professional sense.

[Goldenthal] Joel Schumacher
called me

before the film was actually
in production.

He didn't want
to lose me

to another project.

At the time...

I was lucky enough
to be nominated

for an Academy Award,

for Interview With The Vampire.

He wanted a...

a total new score, you know,
starting from scratch,

completely different.

He was very concerned
with the effect
of the music.

Is it weird enough?

Is it out there, enough?

Don't be conservative.

Go for it.

Hiring
a cinematographer
was also high

on Joel's priority list.

Well, my name
is Stephen Goldblatt

and I'm a director
of photography.

With a CV
as eclectic as Joel's,

Stephen seemed like
the perfect fit.

And I said, no, I couldn't doBatman Forever, because...

I'd already committed
to another movie.

The next day,
the sliding doors of Hollywood

came into play.

I had a lunch
with the director
of this other film,

and he says we've lost
all the money.

It's not gonna happen.

I said, excuse me a second,
and I went to the bathroom

and I called
the production office
and I said...

Wait a minute,
wait a minute.

I said, I know
I said no yesterday,
but it's yesterday.

And they said,
when can you come over?

I said, "I'm having lunch
at Warner Bros.

I'll be right over."

The plan for the film
was basically,

to build the Batcave
to build the Batmobile,

to build and or
light everything,

no visual effects
at all.

I mean, this is when
green screen's

more expensive than
doing it for real.

The issue
for Stephen was time.

My prep was
about four months.

I felt my palms get moist
with fear,

because that wasn't
a day too long.

He wasn't alone.

All areas of the production
began to feel the strain,

as Joel Schumacher's vision
rapidly mushroomed in size.

[Neill] I don't really know
that Joel ever really looked
at the comic books.

He just has
a whole different
take on things.

The costumes,
the set designs

became grander and bigger.

Brighter lighting, You have
to have brighter colors.

They changed the Batmobile.

Louder and louder.

Now there's colors on it.

So many bat gadgets...

To sell more toys.

We would get up
at 2:00 or 3:00 a.m.

to go walk the sets

to make sure that
we would be ready.

I don't know that Joel
ever understood

the logistics involved.

Reinforcements
were brought in

and for the wardrobe department

that came in the shape
of Ingrid Ferrin.

There was over
a hundred and twenty people
in the costume department.

Bob was well on his way
into designing characters.

Fluorescent colors
on the gang's

very cartoonish.

For all of us first timers
in the comic book world,

didn't quite know how
it was going to go off.

There was a whole trailer

temperature controlled
for Batman and Robin suits.

Which having
been freshly made
and made of rubber,

had a propensity
to start melting
under the hot lights.

And so it was,

that the crew collectively
held their breath

as Val Kilmer tried on
the Batsuit

for the first time.

[Fernandez] So, Val Kilmer
comes in,

excited at first.

But it soon
became apparent

that the suit
couldn't breathe,

leaving Val hot
under the collar

both physically
and emotionally.

It's not that Val
was unjustified

when he got upset.

The costume, the wardrobe

got his temperature up
to 110 degree Fahrenheit.

[Fernandez] Val was uncomfortable,
for sure.

So, we had to figure out
ways to try make him cooler.

Perhaps he'd find
the makeup chair
more comfortable.

Let's just say
that Val was
a little bit difficult.

Maybe not.

Joel wanted him
to look very sexy,

so I kind of wanted
to enhance his eyes
just a little bit.

And he said,
"Oh, I don't like that."

And I said,
but this is what
Joel asked me to do,

so, can we just do it
for the test?

And you know,
when your make-up artist
comes in,

you guys can just
discuss it again
with him.

And he wasn't
happy about it.
But I did it anyway.

In Long Beach
at the old
Spruce Goose hangar,

the Batcave was being
rapidly constructed.

It was the largest space.

It was far bigger

than any of these stages
at Warner Bros.

The drawback, we didn't have
the super structure

of a sound stage.

But we had a fantastic hotel
less than

five minutes' walk
from the stage,

and that was
The Queen Mary.

The bar was
a great place to be

at about nine o'clock,
in the evening,

after good day's work.

However, some serious
safety concerns

meant that Stephen's time
at the bar

was few and far between.

What we were
worried about was
that Long Beach,

you can have a big old
earthquake there.

In the event
of an earthquake
that Batcave

would've come down
in no time.

What they did is
they got enormous

construction crane

and they suspended
the set from a fulcrum.

So, that in the event
of an earthquake

it wouldn't collapse.

And then building
on that,

we put in and had to rig

an enormous amount
of hardware.

I mean, we actually
were working about

forty foot off the floor.

This is not a good thing.

There was no safety plan
that I could see.

There was
even worse news

back at the production office,

Jim Carrey and Tommy Lee Jones

were not playing nicely
in rehearsals.

Jim was very vivacious

and really fun to be around,

and loud and crazy.

And Tommy,

oh...

What kind of a man

has bats on the brain?

It's like as long as
you held your own with him,
he was all right, but...

if you did not, you were
in a heap of trouble.

[Nasr] There was a little bit
of competition, you know,

between who's really
going to dominate the scene.

It was clear
there would be fireworks
on set.

Has anybody ever told you,
you have a serious
impulse control problem?

How big the display
was the question.

Principal photography
on Batman Forever

began on September 24th 1994,

with a six-month
shooting schedule.

[Ferrin] Coming to set,
I was a bit speechless.

How would I describe it?

[Neill] Visually dynamic,
you know.

It was just like
a cacophony of color

and crazy characters
and fun stuff.

Forget this good,
clean, wholesome
all-American fun

and join us at a celebration
of absolute chaos.

This is just
like fantasy land.

It was all exaggerated.

[Riddler] That's impressive.

[Ferrin] It's a comic book
come to life.

A world where normal rules
of right and wrong
no longer apply.

Tommy and Jim's feud
had simmered for now.

However, concern
over Val Kilmer's

volatile behavior
still lingered.

The only time
I ever heard him talking

when he was complaining
about people standing
around him

or being in the suit or...

anything else.

And as shooting got
under way Val's complaints

would heat up
as he found out
his Batsuit

was still more oven
than armor.

I'm trying to make it cool,
I've got a little hole punch

and start punching through
the foam in different areas.

And you have
to have something
on the back.

So we were doing them
on boards and wood,

and somebody had
left a few...

I guess, bits of wood,

so, obviously
it was uncomfortable.

So, I think on his point,
maybe he thought people were
being malicious.

Val made it
very clear to Joel

he could not work under
the conditions.

He just took his hands
and just

kind of just ran 'em
up the foam.

The foam was
just then shredded.

At a stalemate
a compromise was reached.

While Val would continue
to shoot his own dialogue,

any additional coverage
would be handled

by a gentleman named Keith.

I was a young stunt guy,
so happy to get
to go work on it

just because it was one of
the biggest films

of the time.

Keith's initial
excitement soon waned.

[Campbell] Every time
the bat suit came off,

so did the boots,
of course.

And you turn them
upside down, and

just empty with
so much sweat.

I mean, it poured out
like they had filled
all the way up.

As shooting progressed,
the relationship between Val

and Joel Schumacher
continued to deteriorate.

He and Joel had open warfare

on occasion, not pretty.

I had some misgivings
about our director myself.

He was very lazy.

When he'd come on set,

I kid you not,
he would say to me,

"Well, what are we
doing today?"

The thing is,
he never made shotlists.

I made all the shotlists,

and if there were
multiple cameras,

I'd work all that out.

I think directors
ought to know

what the day's work
should be.

It truly, from my point
of view,

was how not to work
as a director.

Meanwhile,
Tommy Lee Jones
was making life difficult

for his onscreen henchman,
Joe Sabatino.

I'm so excited because
I'm working

opposite Tommy Lee Jones,

my mom's favorite actor.

The first thing
I have to say is.

"It's time to get the bat."

And he has to say his lines.

He just doesn't say them.
And then I hear, "And cut!"

"When Tommy's done talking,

you're supposed
to say your lines."

[Goldblatt] The thing is,
he had four hours of makeup
before we even got to the set.

And so he was
getting a bit grumpy.

So we rehearse it again.
Ba-ba-ba, he says it perfectly.

And we go, "Okay."
The last two sentences, nothing.

And then "Eer! Cut!"

Like, "Okay, I know
my mother loves you,

but you're starting
to make me look bad."

So he says,
"I'm sorry, Joe, I'm sorry.

I will say those lines."
And it worked out.

And then it kind of went good.
And I was like, "Oh, gosh."

[Goldblatt] He's a wonderful actor.

When he wasn't doing
the four-hour makeup,

he was much more
pleasant to be with.

Blast him!

Without Tommy
in makeup, the pair made up.

But it was Jim Carrey
who made a more
positive impression on Joe.

He says, "Hey, I'm gonna
be working with you,

Joe, we're gonna
have a blast here today.
It's gonna be great."

He was just such
a nice, nice guy.

Thank you.

Likewise,
Nicole Kidman was earning

plenty of admirers
on set as well.

She was very
sincere about her work.

She was very excited about it.

Just helped us understand how
she thought things should fit.

[Goldblatt] Like all actresses,

she was concerned
to look beautiful.

Which isn't vanity.

That was her part.

She had to look wonderful.

She has that communication
of their eyes...

Bruce, are you jealous?

[Goldenthal] You can see her
looking at his heart.

I can't be jealous of Batman.

In those moments, uh,
very gentle and yet,

it has a complexity,
really, really human.

With the shoot nearing
the end of its schedule,

a major set piece
in the Riddler's Lair
was still to be filmed

involving
dangerous pyrotechnics.

Stephen's safety concerns
about the Spruce Goose hangar

were about
to be put to the test.

I was in there while
they were bringing the fire up.

And then I'm supposed to get up
and run through it.

I remember the very first time

it coming up and being so hot
that I couldn't move.

[Goldblatt] The set appeared to catch fire.

I was at the video monitor.

I previously told
the one hundred spectators

who were crowded around me,

the exit's over there,
you see where it is.

And all I could see
was the hundred people
running for their lives.

Really, a dangerous
amount of fire. That was scary.

We needed to
just abort and lay down,

and cover-up
until things got settled.

The shooting
wrapped in March 1994.

And although Elliot Goldenthal
had been
one of the first hired,

Elliot found himself racing
the clock to make delivery.

It was 24 hours a day.

And then the day started again,
and again, and again, and again.
Extremely intense.

Due in part
to Warner Bros.' insistence

on supplementing the score
with commercial music.

When they wanted
to wedge in a song...

♪ Crossword puzzling your delf

♪ Questioning your own
mental health

♪ Yeah, it's like a maze ♪

...they just subtracted
some of my music.

But of course,
this was a familiar tune.

♪ Get the funk up

♪ Batman ♪

Prince had proven that
back on the first movie.

The Batman Forever soundtrack
took this concept even further.

In fact, it took it
to the top of the charts.

And by the time
of the premiere in 1997,

everyone was
on top of the world.

Val's suit is based on my body.

I don't want
to show it to you now,

you'll have to pay to see
the Batsuit,
to see my body in rubber.

Joel was all smiles,
and so was Warner Bros.

Laughing all the way
to the bank.

The movie was a huge hit.

Batman Forever did very well
at the box office.

The worldwide haul
of 335 million dollars.

Which was about 70 or 80 million
more than Batman Returns.

So Batman Forever
is definitely considered a win.

Schumacher had
successfully made
Batman Happy Meals safe again.

Sponsors were really happy
with this kid-friendly,
summer-blockbuster movie.

The licensing revenue
was way up.

[Tim Burgard] But that was a Jim Carrey movie
that wasn't a Batman movie.

If you weren't there
for Jim Carrey,
then there was no reason to go.

- I am winner.
-

Schumacher's
new aesthetic paid off,
and not just for the studio.

I got nominated
for an Academy Award
for Batman Forever,

and I called Joel
to thank him for the gig.

He hadn't been nominated.

And he was furious with me.
Very rude.

I just told him, "You're not
going to spoil my day."

And I just hung up on him.

I never expected
to see him again.

While Stephen
had enough of Joel Schumacher,

the studio, and audiences
were hungry for more.

So immediately they're like,
"We've got to make another one."

However,
the experience
had taken its toll

on not just the crew,
but the cast as well.

Some monumental changes were
coming down the pipeline
for the franchise.

And how they responded
would be anyone's guess.

If Warner Bros. needed
a sign that the instincts
had been correct

with Batman Forever,they got it.

That movie was huge.

After Batman the studio's like,
"Tim Burton, you can do
whatever you want."

Well after Batman Forever,
they said to Joel Schumacher,

"Joel, you know, that was a hit.
Do whatever you want."

Warner Bros.
had one mandate.

[Chuck Dixon] More characters.
Because increase

the degree of merchandising
they can do.

That's why every Poison Ivy
action video comes
complete with him.

Warner Bros. suggest
Mr. Freeze, Bane,
Poison Ivy and Batgirl.

Licensing certainly was
salivating. It's toys for girls.

I think it was a bad decision.
It doesn't start with story,

it starts with money or
starts with, if we put these
characters in this

we can sell more toys.
That's just never gonna
end well.

Having knocked it
out of the park on
Batman Forever,

screenwriter Akiva Goldsman
was back on board.

He wanted a very,
very superheroic

grand and zany
over-the-top characters.

But who would
play these characters?

One actor who
wouldn't be around
to find out was Val Kilmer.

He was off making The Saint
and just held off sharing
that information.

He's very busy,
and you're very boring.

They were kind of like,
"What are we gonna do?"

Val was a big reason for whyForever was a success.

And they went with
George Clooney, who was
incredibly attractive

and incredibly beloved.

Beloved is a bit
of an understatement.

This man acted in the ER,
the biggest TV show...

He was in agony. He was dying.

at the time, pulling in
30 million viewers a week.

Certainly George Clooney

you could see this guy
can hold the screen,

while still like working
in an ensemble.

George Clooney
was a hot property,

but they needed to cast
someone to play Mr. Freeze.

[Burgard] The rumors were that it was
going to be Patrick Stewart.

And yet, casting went Bavarian.

Enter Arnold Schwarzenegger,
to play Mr. Freeze.

All right, everyone. Chill!

We got an Arnold Schwarzenegger,
you know, who's bigger
than life at the time,

and you pay him
26 million dollars for 26 days.

Arnold's always been
smart like that.

Playing
the femme fatale Poison Ivy,
was '90s it girl Uma Thurman.

I was a huge fan
of Uma Thurman's work.

Uma Thurman
off of Pulp Fiction.

So everybody was like, "Wow,
that's you know Uma Thurman."

She was tall, you know,
I couldn't believe it, I felt

very short next to her, so I'd
always stay away from her.

For the role of
Batgirl, Joel Schumacher
chose a young woman,

by the name of
Alicia Silverstone.

Alicia Silverstone had made
her name in the wonderful
movie Clueless.

Get off of me! Oh! As if!

[Sneider] Young girls were
really excited to see her

and she was like
one of the hottest things
in about the mid-'90s.

However, storyboard
artist Tim Burgard,

was quick to spot an issue
with Joel's expectation

of Silverstone,
versus the reality.

I'm looking at Batgirl wearing
six-inch stilettos,

literally "fuck me" shoes.

The costume is pretty much
Michelle Pfeiffer's costume,
with a cape,

and I said, "Oh,
you've got to be kidding me."

She does not look
like that character.

She's never gonna look
like that character,

no matter how many diets
and exercises she does.

This would soon
become a bigger issue for Tim.
But more on that shortly.

Meanwhile, an early first draft
of the script
had just been delivered.

We weren't quite sure
how this was going to play.

It owed a lot to an era
of comics that was in the past.

The campy era of the mid-'60s.

The storyline and the villains

were heightened
like comic book LSD trips.

The problems
ran deeper. Specifically,
the depth of the characters.

Poison Ivy, like, there was
no acting in that role,
that was posing.

Hi, there.

And even when they do
kind of do Poison Ivy,
it's just a lot of exposition.

My mutant plants
have the strength
of the deadliest animals.

Once you have frozen mankind,
these babies
will overrun the globe.

Whereas for Mr. Freeze,
it was punning.

Stay cool, bird boy.

It's sort of disappointing, too,
because Patrick Stewart's
lines for Mr. Freeze

was written in this entirely
Shakespearean, you know,
monologues-type of thing.

"This is the hour of our
discontent in our...
inglorious by our..." you know.

Picturing Arnold Schwarzenegger
saying those lines.

I thought it was
the funniest thing in the world.

The Iceman Cometh.

And as for Bane...

Bane was wasted. Completely.

Behold, the ideal
killing machine.

Awful. He looked like our Bane.

Bane!

But he wasn't our Bane.
He was a thug.
He didn't say much.

Just the beast.

He wasn't the criminal
mastermind the Bane is.

[Burgard] And this is Akiva Goldsman.

Oscar-winning Akiva Goldsman.

Obviously, he's done some work
that people really appreciate.

But I thought, "Oh, my God, man,

if I were him, I would take
my name off of this thing."

But Akiva's name stayed boldly
emblazoned on the film.

Along with
a flamboyant director

who was pushing the limits
of Batman's campiness.

Joel Schumacher, kind of,
embraced his camp instincts.

[Goldenthal] Joel said, "I don't want anyone
leaving the movie theater

saying the movie
was under the top."

There were
big costumes to build.

Mr. Freeze's outfit.

Cherry on the top was when
he wanted to light up grill
within his mouth when he froze.

Poison Ivy did
a little ivy velvet leotard.

The studio, though,
felt Batman and Robin
could also do with a spruce-up.

Because of the toys,
they have to have new toys,

they have to have
different toys.

Like he really embraced
the fetish part.
The nipples part.

Joel thinks things
need to have sex appeal.

Even though
it was for a kids' movie.

[Fernandez] He wanted me
to sharpen them, circle them.

And he said, "Well, Batgirl
should have nipples, too."

They were insistent.
So I said, "Absolutely."

I just put some nipples on it.

So then the day of the show
and tell all them, you know,
executives come in,

looked at
the suit just briefly,

it didn't take long,
and then they just
couldn't even look at it again.

Like, okay, maybe not.
Maybe we shouldn't have nipples.

They were then much more,
kind of, simplified.

But the Batsuits'
troubles were far from over,

becoming a point of contention
between Joel Schumacher,

and original designer
Bob Ringwood.

[Fernandez] So Bob
wanted to do a blue tint.

And then Joel Schumacher said,
"No, I don't want blue,
I want black."

And Bob Ringwood is, "Oh, well,
He doesn't know what he wants
till he sees it."

So the screening happens.
And it was just blue.

Joel started like,
"I don't want a blue bat."

And then it started going
until he was shouting,
"I don't want a blue bat!"

And I think after that,
I think Bob had a breakdown
and left the show.

It was yet another
relationship breakdown on
Batman for Schumacher.

But would it be his last?

With new Batsuits in tow
the pressure was on Schumacher

as principal photography began
in September 1996.

However, a member of the cast
came in for some
unwanted publicity

which threatened
to derail the production.

Alicia Silverstone.
She was a presenter
at the Academy Awards.

Your fate is probably
in the hands of a makeup artist.

[Burgard] All these different people
said she was large.

People started calling
her "Batgirl-fat-girl."

I anticipated you would.
And took the liberty to create
something in your size.

She's this gorgeous girl,
who's the size four
and that's too big for somebody.

I don't know what to say
about that. It's just wrong.

Well, too effing bad.
That's what I say.

I thought she looked great
and she was a young girl,

and it's like, you know,
she's still developing.

The critics were
vocalizing their feelings

but no one was prepared
to hear it
from one of their own.

Alicia Silverstone was
in the costume department

being corseted down for them
to take measurements
for her costume.

Now that it's brought up,
yeah, she was
definitely gaining weight.

[Burgard] I did a mock up poster.

I was imagining
Alicia Silverstone

trying to be fit
into the same costume

that I am looking at
From the art department.

It was not supposed
to leave the room.

[Goldblatt] I found her sort of
sobbing in a corner.

I said, "You all right?"

And she says, "I should
never have taken this."

What I did was,
I thought, no more offensive

than something in Mad magazine.

It's really ridiculous.

Completely unfair,
and unwarranted
and misogynistic.

The only thing I think,
that saved me from any trouble,

was that I didn't
sign my name on it.

Silverstone, a true
professional, put it behind her

to carry on in the role
with production underway.

I was hiding
the pain all the time.

Too bad she had the experience,
but I think everybody had

an experience makingBatman and Robin.

Including Stephen Goldblatt,
who, after swearing...

I never expected
to see him again.

...found himself back
behind the lens again.

I refused Batman and Robin.

There were certain things about
Joel that really got
up my nose.

I didn't necessarily
want to repeat it.

But an SOS call from
producer Peter MacGregor-Scott
changed all that.

[Goldblatt] He said Joel was not
happy with the way
the preproduction was going.

And that he felt that
his choice instead of me
was possibly a mistake.

And would I reconsider?

I was out of a job
as of the day before.

I was tempted financially.

This time,
Stephen came forewarned
and forearmed

when it came to dealing
with Joel.

He would get impatient.

He was like always.
"Why aren't we shooting?"

You know, and everybody's going,
"Joel, we just
started setting up."

Decided that what I needed
was a full-scale
rock and roll lighting outfit.

Almost like a Broadway show,
there were lots of spotlights.

There was more
than just the Bat-Signal.

You could be looking in one
direction and then reverse it,

turn those lights off
and turn it on, it could be done

literally in 60 seconds.

I think he lit it
in a very cartoon style.

Because it was a spectacle
I used more than a hundred

of these large
rock and roll lights.

Another experienced hand was
also rejoining the franchise.

- Okay.
- Peter MacDonald,

Tim Burton's second
unit director
on 1989's Batman

returned to become
Joel's right-hand man.

However, his experience
with the director thus far

was eerily similar
to his cinematographers.

The first meeting with Joel,
is, you know,
"Oh, Don't worry, Peter.

I get all the money,
you do all the work."
And he'd... he laughed about it.

Well, he could be a bully.

It was all hail-fellow-well-met

but underneath that was
a rather nasty character.

He and I learned how to dislike
each other quite successfully.

Peter, though,
was focusing on the positives.

Namely the fact
that the current
Batmobile could successfully

navigate corners,
unlike the 1989 version.

We tested,
you do the big night work
when you have 150 people.

After a few nights
and everything works well,

the concentration level
goes down, and that's
when the fuck up starts.

And that's exactly
what happened.
Just not with the Batmobile.

Yep. I did the race scene,
I actually broke my ankle.

I was just riding by
and somebody pulled over

a wrought iron lamp stand
and hooked my spokes.

My foot got lodged
and my body kept going, so...

But Debbie wasn't going to let
a broken ankle set her back.

We still had more stuff
to do that night,

so I just had them tape it up
and away I went.

Ha-ha! Hey, not bad for a chick!

Perhaps Debbie
could have benefited

from Joel's
latest obsession, CGI.

He brought in a lot of CG.

He was really into it 'cause
it was brand new back then.

It was just beginning
to be possible to,

without enormous
time and expense,

to replace some backgrounds,

some parts of the city to make
it look more like Gotham.

Yeah. He was very excited
about all of it.

But he did like what we did
on the bikes and everything.

Fellow stuntman Keith Campbell
wasn't breaking legs,

but he was breaking a sweat
in the Bat costume again.

The second time wasn't
much better. It was sweaty.

You put on that suit,
and you'd lose probably
ten pounds easily a day.

Very, very tough to wear.
And tough to move in.

Very difficult sometimes when
you have to go use the restroom.

So it was one of those things
where you got to hold it
for a long time.

And when George
was required to suit up,

no one was getting
a dressing down.

Nobody liked it, but George
complained the least...

...about being in the suit.

[Goldblatt] Make enough money,
for the rest of his life.

But I just didn't think
that Mr. Clooney

was going to be invested
that much in this movie

to actually lose his temper.

With his film nearing
completion, Schumacher
and Warner Bros.

felt they had
a hit on their hands,

but they had made
one vital error of judgment.

[Ferrin] A lot of movies
when you make them,
they definitely test it out.

I'm not sure if they do that
on a Batman movie.

In June 1997,
Batman and Robinwas ready to hit cinemas.

The chaotic shoot,
a thing of the past.

Whenever you make a film,
you wish and hope,
and pray it'll work,

and it'll be a financial success
and everything will be happy.

At the very beginning,
that's what happened.

This looks promising.

Off the back of a 125 million
dollar marketing campaign.

Strength and courage...

Everyone was so excited.

- ...Honor and loyalty.
- [Sneider] Kids were excited.

...Freedom and Justice.

[Sneider] Parents were actually excited
to take their kids for once.

Batman and Robin.

In its opening weekend,
Batman and Robin

grossed 42 million dollars
and top spot at the box office.

Watch the numbers, Batman...

[Sneider] However,
after that was
a completely different story.

Word of mouth, let's just say
it was not so positive.

It was just a disaster.

Audience numbers
declined by a whopping 63%

in its second week in cinemas.

Buried, deep,
beneath the snow...

With the film never recovering.

It didn't end up, you know,
working the way
we would have liked it to.

You know, I knew Joel
really well and had worked
on movies with him.

But, you know, it had
a very big effect on Joel.

Batman and Robinwas a failure,

earning nearly 100 million
less than Batman Forever.

It wasn't long before
the postmortem began.

I think this had
to do with the studio

giving creative license to
a director who took it too far.

[Burgard] He didn't really know
anything about comics.

He didn't know
the history of Batman,

or rather, the way he's been
portrayed in comics for years.

He didn't know
any of that stuff going in.

[Nasr] There were too many
cooks in the kitchen.

There were too many deals struck
with all the marketing,
the merchandising.

[Busch] Maybe we got
a little more of characters

we shouldn't have gotten
more of because of the toys.

[Uslan] Joel Schumacher,
one of the nicest people

you would ever meet
in your life
got blamed for a lot of it.

He was doing
what he was asked to do.

Joel was just trying to make
the best prettiest film he could

because that's
the director he is.

But, you know, listen, I think
he took a risk, visually,

I think he was trying
to push that realm.

And then, of course,
to point out the obvious.

The "Bat nipples"
will always be a mystery to me.

Those were some nipples.
Let's just put it that way.

They were really huge.

People were talking
about that a lot.

Joel Schumacher kind of knew
that he screwed
the pooch on that one.

It was clear from
what Joel liked that that's
what he wanted to do.

That's the complex part
of Batman and Robin.
It was just misguided.

I think people forgot
what the audience wanted,

which was just
a really good story.

I'm sorry, Joel,
wherever you are.

I don't think
you paid attention.

The overall impact of a movie is
the director's responsibility.

Joel Schumacher was
left to shoulder much of the
burden from the film's fallout.

[Nasr] Certainly, his career was hurt.

Joel Schumacher's
response to Batman and Robin

was to go off and makeEight Millimeter.

Like, he went back
to smaller films.

Something that doesn't sit well
with George Clooney.

[Nasr] You certainly hear
Clooney even now

owning, like he's the Batman,
that nobody wanted
to watch his film.

When you're not right for role,
you're not right for role.

I personally didn't think
he was right for it.

I think it was miscast.
He was missing something there.

You know, that Michael Keaton
had, Val Kilmer had.

However, the biggest
casualty of Batman and Robin'snegative reception

was the franchise itself.

They were ready
to go for a fifth movie.

After the failure
of Batman and Robin

Joel Schumacher's planned
sequel, Batman Triumphant
was just scrapped.

Chris O'Donnell says
there was some talk with him

about doing some solo project.

Certainly once,
after the fourth film,
that wasn't gonna happen.

[Nasr] Batman and Robinit killed the franchise.

It killed the movies,
and it killed doing
superhero films.

It's like, okay, we're done.
We just burned this one.

Let's go with
something else now.

Batman was dead.