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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:10,280 Dad? 2 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:11,680 [man] Yeah? 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,240 Are you up here? 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:15,320 [man] Mm-hmm. 5 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:29,320 Dadda, can you help me draw Mummy on this piece of paper? 6 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,800 Alex, look at me. 7 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,600 When you saw the bad man, was he in front of you like I am? 8 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,320 Or was he on this side, or was he on that side? 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,040 - He was in front of me. - He was right in front of you? 10 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,280 - Mm-hmm. - Did Mummy see him? 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,360 I don't think she did. 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,320 No? Did you see him first? 13 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,440 Yeah, I saw him first. 14 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,440 Did he have a bag? 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:56,080 Yeah. 16 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,320 And did he open it, or was it already open? 17 00:00:58,400 --> 00:00:59,400 He opened it. 18 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:00,800 And what did he get out? 19 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:02,000 A knife. 20 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,200 - What did he do to you? - Knocked me over! 21 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,240 - He knocked you over? - Yeah. 22 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:09,240 The bad man was sticking his things in her. 23 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:10,760 What was he sticking in her? 24 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:12,880 A knife. There's his knife. 25 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:14,480 Did you see it? 26 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:16,600 Yeah, I saw the knife. 27 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:18,120 Did you see all the times? 28 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,840 I saw it… Yeah, I saw it all. 29 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:23,920 [ominous music playing] 30 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,640 [man] My son witnessed his mother's murder. 31 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,680 But nobody could have possibly known 32 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,160 how long it was gonna take to find the person who did this. 33 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:35,920 [ominous music continues] 34 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,560 [music fades] 35 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,000 {\an8}[birds calling] 36 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,240 {\an8}[gentle instrumental music playing] 37 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:09,840 [woman] Oh! 38 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,680 What… What have you got? 39 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,080 - [man] I've got a camera. - What for? 40 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,000 [man] Take pictures of you. 41 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:20,600 [Rachel] Cuddles. 42 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:22,080 Hmm? 43 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,360 [indistinct speech] 44 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,200 We don't like those much, do we, Alex? 45 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:28,560 - Oh! [chuckles] - [Alex giggles] 46 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,920 [man] Rachel and Alex were, you know, they were a unit. 47 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,320 He was the center of Rachel's attention every day. 48 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,920 She wasn't at all drawn to the sparkly things. 49 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,480 She just really enjoyed the simple things of life. 50 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,120 Enjoying the company of the people she really cared about. 51 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,440 This was someone who could really squeeze fun 52 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,480 out of the simplest of things. 53 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:54,240 [character on TV] Can't wait. 54 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:55,960 [character sighs, yawns] 55 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,240 Sleep. Need… 56 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,840 [Rachel] Give Molly a nice stroke. Lie down and give her a nice stroke. 57 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,800 [André] At the time, I went to work five days a week as a dispatch rider 58 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,520 and travelled all over the country. 59 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,560 So I was down getting my bike out, ready for the day. 60 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,800 And, uh, even though we'd already said goodbye, 61 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:20,960 they both appeared. 62 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,600 Came down the stairs and, uh, waved me off. 63 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,840 That's my lasting memory, yeah, of them smiling. 64 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:35,240 Standing on the steps, hand in hand. 65 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,920 You know, Alex completely relaxed and Rachel looking lovely. 66 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:41,840 [birds singing] 67 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,360 It was their routine to visit Wimbledon Common. 68 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,200 It's always had a reputation of being a safe place. 69 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,680 And, uh, Alex, he needed as much exercise as the dog did. 70 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,160 Otherwise, they'd both be bouncing off the walls. 71 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,240 [ominous string music playing] 72 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,680 That day, I happened to be in London, 73 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,520 and I was sent to the outskirts. 74 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,120 It's pre-mobile phone. 75 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,680 So a couple of times a day, I'd phone in to make sure everything was all right. 76 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,760 [ominous music intensifies] 77 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:28,520 Late in the morning, I stopped, 78 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,640 found a phone that was working. 79 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,680 - Rang the number. - [phone rings out] 80 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,800 [music continues] 81 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:37,280 [phone ringing] 82 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,360 [music intensifies] 83 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,120 [phone ringing] 84 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:42,640 [music stops] 85 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,480 A man's voice answered the phone. 86 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,080 And my blood ran cold. 87 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,840 I just knew immediately that something was seriously wrong. 88 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:52,920 [poignant music playing] 89 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,400 He said, "I'm a policeman." 90 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,360 So I said, "Where's Rachel?" 91 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,000 And he said, "There's been an accident." 92 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,080 I said, "Is she dead?" He said, "I can't tell you that." 93 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:04,680 I said, "You just did." 94 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,600 And I asked, "Where's Alex?" 95 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,160 He said, "Alex is safe. He's at the hospital." 96 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,600 He said, "Stay where you are. We'll send a police car to you." 97 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,960 The moment I put the phone down, I collapsed to the floor and broke down. 98 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,760 [Rachel laughs] André, I'm right up on your stomach. 99 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:33,960 Press pause. 100 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,680 [Alex] Hey, I don't… 101 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,200 I don't know what you say. 102 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:42,720 [André] We like that bit. 103 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,120 - You like that bit? - [André] Yeah. 104 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:49,720 Every belief I had about, you know, the firmness of reality disappeared. 105 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:51,240 I was in a state 106 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,960 which you can only describe as bordering on the edge of insanity. 107 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,440 [tense music playing] 108 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,080 [man] 15th July '92, 109 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:14,320 I was informed that a body has been found on the common by a… a dog walker. 110 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:19,920 It… it's our job, um, 111 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,360 to, to deal with these situations as, as a professional. 112 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,560 To stand back from what you see as a fellow human being. 113 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,040 I was walking through grass, 114 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:37,560 and then I sort of turned right into a small, um, glade. 115 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,160 It really was the worst crime scene. 116 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,560 It… it just looked like a frenzied attack. 117 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,640 The victim had been attacked, dragged, 118 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,400 stabbed 49 times in and around the neck and chest area. 119 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,000 And she lay with her hands sort of up in front of her face, 120 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,480 as if she was still trying to protect herself. 121 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:06,560 It was monstrous. 122 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,320 The detectives told me that Rachel had been attacked from behind. 123 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,520 She'd been… [hesitates] …stabbed multiple times 124 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,120 and that she'd been assaulted. 125 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,520 That Alex had been found clinging to his mother's body. 126 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,640 And that they had to basically prize him away 127 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,280 to attend to him. 128 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,360 Alex had been taken to this hospital. 129 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:41,880 When I got there, 130 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:46,120 they said that they would like me to speak to a psychologist before… 131 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:47,200 before I saw Alex. 132 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,280 [Alex chatters] 133 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,840 [André] The psychologist said, first of all, children are resilient. 134 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,960 They can get through the worst of things. 135 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,200 He said they need to know 136 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,800 that this is definitive, that this person is not coming back. 137 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:06,880 [poignant music playing] 138 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,280 Alex came out in the arms of a nurse, and he looked incredibly subdued. 139 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,480 He had cuts under his eyes. He had bruises on his cheeks. 140 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,920 And, uh, he had an intense look in his eyes, you know, 141 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,600 like a… a very old person in a very young body. 142 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,120 And I picked him up and basically recited what the psychologist said. 143 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:34,360 There's been an accident, 144 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,080 that Mummy's dead, that she's not coming back. 145 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,240 And he just kept staring. He didn't ask any questions. 146 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,760 But it was clear that he was telling me, "I already know that." 147 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,840 You know? "That's something you really don't have to explain to me." 148 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,200 [Rachel] Alex, turn around and wave to me. 149 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:55,480 Wave. 150 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,520 He never asked again where his mother was. Not once. 151 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,520 - [music fades] - [birds singing] 152 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,600 [indistinct chatter on police radio] 153 00:09:11,560 --> 00:09:13,280 [reporter] Police sealed off Wimbledon Common 154 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,280 moments after the woman's half-naked body was found by a passer-by. 155 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,160 Detectives say she'd been murdered in a frenzied attack, 156 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,080 which was witnessed by her two-year-old son. 157 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,760 [woman] The news editor called and said, 158 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:28,160 "We've just read on the wires 159 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,920 there's been some sort of fatal stabbing on Wimbledon Common." 160 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,960 "We need you to go with a crew now." 161 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:37,880 Wimbledon as a place, 162 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,200 it's very affluent, very beautiful houses. 163 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:47,400 Wimbledon Common is something like 1,100 acres of parkland, 164 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,400 literally right on the edge of Central London. 165 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,200 The murder happened in broad daylight, 166 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,960 and police say they're certain the killer would have been heavily bloodstained. 167 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,520 Eve Richings, Sky News. 168 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:07,680 It was palpable how shaken the police officers on the scene were. 169 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,520 A passer-by found her half-naked, 170 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,920 and clinging to the body was a small boy. 171 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:19,160 Superintendent Bassett, 172 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,840 who was, um, the lead officer in charge of the investigation, 173 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,680 he was the one that gave the first briefing. 174 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,920 The small boy was caked in mud and blood, 175 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,480 the blood possibly coming from the mother. 176 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:35,480 I was a detective sergeant and, at the time of the inquiry, 177 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:37,520 was John Bassett's right-hand man. 178 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,120 When we arrived at the scene, 179 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,600 I could see that she had suffered horrendously 180 00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:47,800 during this attack. 181 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,120 When we looked closely at her body, her body was in a not-natural position. 182 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:56,800 Her clothing had been ripped from her. 183 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,880 There was moistness in and around her body. 184 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:05,800 That indicated there's possibly a sexual connotation to this. 185 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:10,440 It was frightening to think that somebody who could commit that sort of crime 186 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:11,400 was on the loose. 187 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:15,040 Obviously, if you've got somebody who's gonna do this, 188 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,400 then that's likely to happen again, 189 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:22,240 and the pressure is on to get this man, uh, before he does it again. 190 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,200 {\an8}[reporter] Police teams spent a second day combing 1,000 acres of Wimbledon Common 191 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,400 {\an8}for clues to the savage killing. 192 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,320 [Paul] The size of Wimbledon Common, 193 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,840 straight away, I realized that we had a difficult job on. 194 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,800 Normally when a murder breaks, 195 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,000 you probably get 10, 15 officers. 196 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,280 On this, I think we had about 40. 197 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,720 And it was quite obvious from the start that this was gonna be a big one. 198 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,720 [reporter] They officially named the murdered mother as Rachel Nickell. 199 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,400 Her body was identified today by the father of her small son. 200 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,640 [Eve] To see pictures of Rachel Nickell, 201 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,560 to see what she looked like, 202 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,720 she sort of shone with vitality. 203 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:21,160 People could project… themselves into that life. 204 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,800 They could remember being 23 205 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,240 or remember being a new parent. 206 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,480 We were getting a love story in the pictures that they released. 207 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:37,560 [poignant music playing] 208 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:40,840 [André] It was an instant connection. 209 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,640 It was… You know, I'd never had that experience before, 210 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:45,280 and I've never had it since. 211 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,440 We were inseparable. We did feel that we just bonded completely. 212 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:55,800 This is the experience that people, you know, they… they dream of having. 213 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,480 You know, falling head over heels in love and feeling so complete with someone. 214 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:02,000 So we both felt blessed to have that. 215 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,200 When Rachel became pregnant, it was a shock. 216 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,600 I was 25, and Rachel was 19. 217 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:17,960 She was very much on the track of, you know, getting studies finished, 218 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:19,760 getting a career, getting a good job. 219 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,960 But the moment that Rachel could see I was committed, 220 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:26,600 she could see that we could make this work. 221 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:29,440 So we just went for it. 222 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,800 That first time that you pick up… pick up a child 223 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:37,640 and see them breathing, 224 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:39,880 it's… it's supernatural. 225 00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:42,000 It's absolutely supernatural. 226 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,440 You can't not believe in magic if you've seen a child being born. 227 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,320 Rachel was a natural mother. 228 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,320 She was… She was, uh, breathtaking. 229 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,800 The two of them were so passionate about each other. 230 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,680 They were so fulfilled with each other. 231 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,200 I think it's a human reaction. 232 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,480 You wish it had happened to you rather than it happened to them. 233 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,400 The detective suggested we pop back to the flat 234 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,000 and pick up a few things. 235 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:31,040 I was throwing Alex's favorite stuff into a bag, you know. 236 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,920 His favorite teddy bear, you know, shorts and T-shirts, his pajamas, 237 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:41,960 and the sheepskin that they slept on since he was, uh… since he was first born. 238 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:44,760 We never lived there again. 239 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,520 It felt like a space that had been violated. 240 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,280 The boyfriend of Rachel Nickell, 241 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,360 the young mother murdered on Wimbledon Common 242 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,760 in South London yesterday, 243 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:57,960 has appealed for help to track down her killer. 244 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,280 - [cameras clicking] - [indistinct chatter] 245 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,240 [André] I wasn't prepared when I walked through the door into that room. 246 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,000 There must have been a hundred press present. 247 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,800 So it was cameras, telephoto lenses, 248 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,840 TV cameras all pointed towards you like a… an enemy battalion. 249 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:21,320 Everyone wanted to see what Rachel's partner was like. 250 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:23,960 Somebody must know something, 251 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,520 um, from the ferocity of the attack. 252 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,160 They couldn't have walked down the road and not be noticed. 253 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,680 And I would say to anybody who does know this person, 254 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,560 no matter how they feel about them, 255 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,400 please come forward before he destroys anybody else's life. 256 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:45,200 But also everyone really wanted to know what had happened to Rachel's son. 257 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:46,760 It was just so shocking. 258 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,600 He hasn't said anything. Um… 259 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,440 I don't know how he's gonna be in the future, but… he's not too bad. 260 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,240 He wasn't injured, thank God. 261 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,560 And the most fortunate thing is that they tell me 262 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:01,920 he's small enough that he won't remember much. 263 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,720 We went back to the common to leave the rose for Rachel 264 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,680 to say our farewell, 265 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,120 and we were now front-page news. 266 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,960 There was a full color picture printed of Alex in my arms, 267 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:20,720 completely identifiable. 268 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,400 They were identifying the only witness to his mother's murder, 269 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,120 and there was a possibility that some deranged person may come back 270 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,880 to try and dispose of the only witness to his crime. 271 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,000 I knew from now on, 272 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,760 if we weren't in danger before, now we were in the gravest of danger. 273 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,120 Two-year-old Alex Nickell is said to be bearing up, 274 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,880 but in a state of deep shock after his ordeal. 275 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,520 [woman] I think a two-year-old would have no concept of death at all. 276 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,000 [man] How long could this trauma last? 277 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:48,680 Well, it could last a lifetime. 278 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,480 [Rachel] Down came the rain And washed the spider out… 279 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,000 [André] We were able to find some sanctuary at my mother's home. 280 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,840 Alex, he's had nightmares, terrible nightmares. 281 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,400 If he could sleep soundly through the night, for the last hour, 282 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,840 he'd be… you know, he'd be in a difficult place. 283 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,240 So whatever I was feeling, I had to swallow it, put it away. 284 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,160 You deal with it later. You can't deal with it now. 285 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,640 No matter how, you know, 286 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,560 how terrible my circumstances were in that particular moment, 287 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,480 our child's needs came first. 288 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,560 [siren wailing] 289 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:37,040 [reporter] The police effort to hunt down the murderer involves 54 detectives. 290 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:38,880 What name is that, then? 291 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,920 [reporter] This is one of three special incident rooms. 292 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,120 There have already been 1,500 calls from the public. 293 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,960 Every one has to be assessed and acted on. 294 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,640 It was a very complex case to… to put together. 295 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:54,160 [phone ringing] 296 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:55,480 Morning, incident room. 297 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,400 We had to go through this chaos of getting as much information as possible. 298 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,080 The telephones are ringing. 299 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,920 {\an8}[officer] You've seen the photographs of Rachel. 300 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,120 - [man] Yeah. - Yeah? 301 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,160 - Had you seen her before up here? - [man] No. 302 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,200 [Paul] On the common, we were taking statements. 303 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,560 Surely somebody must have seen the person 304 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,880 coming towards the murder scene or going away from the murder scene. 305 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:18,280 [indistinct speech] 306 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:20,840 Lots of pressure was on to find a witness. 307 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,800 That's the Rachel Nickell murder squad at Wimbledon. You've already been stopped? 308 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:26,880 [John] We are responding as quickly as we can. 309 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,080 We do have a backlog. I will not deny that. 310 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,360 But we eventually will get round to see everyone. 311 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,360 It's left to me and it's left to the officers I have working for me. 312 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:37,600 We will catch him. 313 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,040 [Ron] Samples were taken from the crime scene 314 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,960 and submitted to the lab for DNA analysis. 315 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:46,760 And I just kept hitting a wall. 316 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,480 The biologist was saying, "We're getting nothing." 317 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,480 And I thought, "What do you mean nothing? What about her DNA?" 318 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,360 "No, we're getting nothing." 319 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,640 And I'd never encountered that before. That was kind of strange. 320 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,080 And so the scientist was saying, 321 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,960 "Well, we'll look at it again from a different aspect." 322 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,160 But still nothing. 323 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:13,360 There's a feeling of hopelessness because this person had to be traced ASAP. 324 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,760 And here we were two or three weeks down the road 325 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,120 and no nearer that than we had been on the day. 326 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,520 There we had a murder scene with no witnesses, 327 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:26,800 with no forensic evidence. 328 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,360 And that was it. Where do you go from there? 329 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:33,840 [pensive music playing] 330 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,360 [André] The situation being as dire as it was, 331 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,840 the police then wanted to talk to Alex about what he'd seen. 332 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:45,800 Because our greatest concern 333 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,240 is that we find this person, but more than anything, 334 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,520 that we stop it from happening to anybody else if we possibly could. 335 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,440 We had to be very careful how we dealt with young Alex 336 00:19:55,520 --> 00:20:00,280 because this was obviously a traumatic incident that he witnessed. 337 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,000 Therefore, we were obviously taking advice as to how to do that. 338 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,320 [indistinct chatter] 339 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:08,480 [man] How's it going? 340 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,720 [Paul] The advice was that we should deal with that 341 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,760 through a child psychologist. 342 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,680 [André] Will you show Jean your dinosaur book? 343 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:19,960 [indistinct speech] 344 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:21,800 [man] I like the pterodactyls. 345 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:23,280 [Alex] Yeah. 346 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,720 [woman] I was a child and adolescent psychiatrist. 347 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,280 And this was unique in our experience. 348 00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:35,320 This is the only case I've ever worked with 349 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,520 where the child was the only witness to a crime of violence. 350 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,080 [Alex] Look, my dinosaur book. 351 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,520 [man] Yes, I like these ones, the flying ones. 352 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,120 [Alex] But I like all of them. 353 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:47,520 [man] You like all of them, yeah. 354 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:49,840 [Jean] I said we could use my home. 355 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,840 And, uh, the first interview, there was a policeman there, 356 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,800 André and myself and the little boy. 357 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,480 The police were intensely hopeful 358 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,600 that this child, young as he was, could give them more information. 359 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,360 I had no experience of how this piece of very intensive work 360 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,400 could affect a small child. 361 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,480 And yet the rational part of my brain fully agreed that it was important 362 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,600 to try and prevent further killings. 363 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,160 So there was a dilemma there. 364 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,320 It was a very, very hard call to make. 365 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,960 So I was just trying to be as vigilant as possible. 366 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,760 If I felt we'd crossed a line, we just had to stop. 367 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,600 [André] There was a scary bit yesterday, wasn't there? 368 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:30,680 [Alex] Mmm. 369 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,120 [André] What was that like? 370 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,960 [Alex] The dinosaur was that big one. 371 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,080 [André] There was this huge dinosaur on the ground. 372 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,480 The three little ones were eating it, weren't they? 373 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,000 - [Alex] Yeah. - They were covered in blood, weren't they? 374 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,040 [Jean] Covered in blood? That must have been difficult. 375 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:49,880 [indistinct speech] 376 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,880 [Alex] They're not going to see that. 377 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,960 The decision was made that it would be best 378 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,120 if her questions came through me 379 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,720 to get Alex to respond as naturally as possible. 380 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,440 [Jean] Alex had blood on him, didn't you? You had blood on you. 381 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,720 [André] All your clothes were covered in blood, weren't they? 382 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:06,800 [Alex] Yeah. 383 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,640 [André] When you were with Mummy that day. 384 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,080 Hmm? 385 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,840 [Jean] Mostly, I was just trying to focus only on Alex and to observe him. 386 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,640 He'd had few words at this point. 387 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,240 He was reluctant to look at people. 388 00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,800 But… I think he was… he was showing stress 389 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,800 after a very, very extreme trauma. 390 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,360 His whole body language, every movement he made showed that. 391 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,760 I think you know now that terrible things suddenly happen. 392 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,320 I think you're very frightened. 393 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,960 From Jean's point of view, she thought it was better to push. 394 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,000 So when you saw the man standing there, 395 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,320 was he looking at you, or was he looking at Mummy? 396 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:54,600 [Alex] Mummy. 397 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,160 - [André] So he didn't say anything to you? - [Alex] No. 398 00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:59,840 [André] He didn't shout at you? 399 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,160 - Did he shout at you or not, Alex? - [Alex] No. 400 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,120 [André] As my questions led more towards the incident, 401 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,440 you could see there was a change in him. He was tensing up. 402 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,680 - Alex, did he hit you? - [Alex] No. 403 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,880 - [André] With his hand? - [Alex] No. 404 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,240 My concern wasn't how much information we could get out of a small child. 405 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,920 It was, you know, what sessions like this, what distress they were gonna cause 406 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,960 and what damage they were gonna do to his recovery. 407 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,640 [Alex] Well, I can't tell you that bit. 408 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,960 [André] No, it's really painful to remember it, isn't it? 409 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,960 [Jean] You're saying, "I can't tell you that bit"? 410 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,560 - [Alex] I can't tell you that bit. - [André] No? 411 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,640 There was a mystery about just how much he might have seen. 412 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,200 I wish that he hadn't seen any of it, you know? 413 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:45,400 That was a hope, 414 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:49,960 that he'd been pushed away and all this had taken place out of, 415 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,600 you know, out of his, uh, 416 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,680 recognition and understanding. 417 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,040 You know when Mummy was lying on the ground and the man had gone? 418 00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:00,440 - Did you say anything to her? - [Alex] No. 419 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,600 - [André] Did you talk to her at all? - [Alex] No. 420 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,040 [André] Were you scared? 421 00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:05,080 [Alex] Mmm. 422 00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:09,000 - [André] Did you think she was asleep? - [Alex] Mmm. 423 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,480 - [André] Did you? - [Alex] Mmm. 424 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,120 [André] Did you want her to wake up? 425 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,040 Did you want her to wake up? 426 00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:15,000 [Alex] Mmm. 427 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:16,800 [André] Did she wake up? 428 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:19,760 [Alex] No. 429 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:24,560 [André] It was pretty intense. 430 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,160 Every few days, there was another session. This was going on over several weeks. 431 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,760 Alex was able to again show the incredible recall, 432 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,520 you know, of a small child. 433 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,480 The events, how they unfolded, 434 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,960 where, you know, the bad man came out from, 435 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,080 you know, from behind them 436 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,040 and, uh… how afterwards, he moved away, 437 00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:55,880 washed his hands in a stream, and then disappeared. 438 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:02,160 [man] Alex, the man who hurt your mummy, what type of trousers did he have? 439 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,120 - [Alex] This one. - [man] That one? 440 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,640 [André] And then Alex started to describe this person. 441 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,000 - [man] What color were they? - [Alex] Blue. 442 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,600 [man] What color were his shoes? 443 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:15,960 [Alex] That color. 444 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,840 We got a description from him of a younger white man, 445 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,080 white shirt over blue trousers, 446 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:24,800 brown shoes. 447 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,560 But the most significant item of all 448 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,520 was Alex remembering he was wearing a belt over his white shirt, 449 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,280 almost like a butcher's apron. 450 00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:38,160 [Paul] Alex's description was similar to one from a woman 451 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,240 who'd seen a man walking towards the murder scene 452 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,120 ten minutes before the murder, 453 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,760 wearing a white top, dark trousers, 454 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,320 carrying a sort of bag. 455 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,840 So we… we came to the conclusion that of all the people on the common, 456 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,320 that was most likely to be the suspect. 457 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,440 Now we just had to find him. 458 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,360 Superintendent, would it be fair to say 459 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,240 you've made very little progress in reality so far? 460 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,720 Yes, uh, that is a fair assessment. 461 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,560 Uh, I'd have hoped by now that we'd have had the man in custody, 462 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,440 uh, but when you see the enormity of my problem here on the common, 463 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,920 you'll understand why. 464 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,680 [reporter 1] In the absence of evidence, police turned to criminal psychologists 465 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,040 to help build up a profile of the attacker. 466 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,440 At the time, we're seeing films such as Silence of the Lambs… 467 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,880 We're interviewing all the serial killers now in custody 468 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,880 for a psycho-behavioral profile. 469 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,600 …where criminal psychologists work out who their suspect was 470 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,360 through offender profiling. 471 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,080 I'm interested in it. 472 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,600 Uh, as I say, the Americans have a lot of success. 473 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:52,240 [reporter 2] One expert they've consulted is Robert Ressler, a retired FBI agent. 474 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,720 Ressler has interviewed many of America's most notorious sex killers, 475 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,000 like Jeffrey Dahmer. 476 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,840 He says the man who murdered Rachel Nickell is disorganized. 477 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,280 The first thing people think about is this is a serial killer. 478 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:08,640 Are we gonna see this again, uh, within days or weeks? 479 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,480 We're dealing with a disorganized, uh, frenzied, 480 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,120 possibly mentally disordered individual. 481 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,800 [Paul] Although John Bassett had met Bob Ressler, 482 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,080 that was basically a flying visit. 483 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:25,360 But it was thought that we probably should progress the offender profiling idea. 484 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,000 And so the most important offender profiler, 485 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,000 who'd worked with the police before, 486 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,320 became involved in this inquiry as an advisor. 487 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,080 When the police ask me to come and help, 488 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,080 it's usually because things have stuck in some way. 489 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,680 And I'm quite sure this was true with the murder of Rachel Nickell. 490 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,400 [reporter 3] Leicester University's Paul Britton 491 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,760 has worked on some of the country's most notorious crime cases. 492 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,080 [Paul Britton] In each case, the police, they say, 493 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:00,120 "What I want from you 494 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,280 is something that will help me to identify a perpetrator." 495 00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:08,320 [reporter 4] Dennis Nilsen, interviewed in prison by psychologist Paul Britton, 496 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,200 preyed on homeless young men. 497 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:15,120 "Something that will take me closer to preventing this person doing it again." 498 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,160 [reporter 5] Paul Britton, a forensic psychologist, 499 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,360 says the Wests aren't as unique as people might believe. 500 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,520 He's certain there are other mass murderers at large. 501 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,320 I was asked to come along and look at this case 502 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,360 between three and four weeks after Rachel had been killed. 503 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,240 And what they wanted from me was my opinion, 504 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,880 a psychological analysis of who might have done this. 505 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,760 [ominous music playing] 506 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:48,840 I have the crime scene materials. 507 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,160 I have the video. I have the maps of the common. 508 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:54,760 But what I need to do 509 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,720 is to actually make a visit to the scene itself. 510 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,600 There's a car park by a windmill on Wimbledon Common. 511 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:04,720 We parked there, 512 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,800 and we walked across to the crime scene. 513 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,880 [ominous music continues] 514 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,320 What the offender would be looking at 515 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,760 is a place where he can find a victim of opportunity. 516 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,640 It's somewhere where he would be able to observe, 517 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,080 to monitor. 518 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,160 He waits to find whoever it is that's closest to his preference, 519 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,960 and it happens to be poor Rachel Nickell. 520 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,320 He was able to look and watch 521 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,560 because he's a watcher. He's a surveiller. 522 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,880 [music intensifies, ends] 523 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,400 And so very often, 524 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,080 and I speak plainly, if you don't mind, 525 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,480 you would have this… 526 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,280 "That bitch would look down her nose at me." 527 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:57,880 "I'm not having that." 528 00:29:58,680 --> 00:29:59,960 "I'm gonna have her." 529 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:08,280 What you have is a very focused intention to obliterate this young woman. 530 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,080 [poignant music playing] 531 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:16,120 But Rachel Nickell, she would not likely just give herself up to death… 532 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,840 without there being some response. 533 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,080 But if someone is basically saying, 534 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,600 "You do what I want now or I'll hurt the child," 535 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,160 that changes everything. 536 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:34,960 The child is there as a hostage. 537 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,560 The child is there as a bargaining counter. 538 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,920 She knows that she's giving up her life for her child's. 539 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,000 [poignant music continues] 540 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,320 I was able to be absolutely clear. 541 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,040 He will kill other people. 542 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,040 This is just not a static picture. 543 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,080 This is just a frame in a film that's carrying on. 544 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,080 [soft, sorrowful music playing] 545 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,120 When you got back to Mummy, was she standing, or was she lying down? 546 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,080 [Alex] Huh. I can't remember that bit. 547 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,480 Don't keep asking me these questions, Daddy. 548 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,280 [André] You're doing very well, Alex. You're doing very well. 549 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,040 The days are turning into weeks. Weeks are turning into months. 550 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:29,160 And we reached a point 551 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,520 where it was just becoming heavy and repetitive. 552 00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,120 And that was a point where I felt, "This is…" 553 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,880 "We're playing for diminishing returns. What more can he possibly give?" 554 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,480 - When you got back to Mummy… - [Alex] I'm fed up. 555 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:41,920 - You're fed up? - [Alex] Yes. 556 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,160 - One last question, Alex. - [Alex] No. No more. 557 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,280 Okay, all right, that's fine. Come here. 558 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,760 [man] You've done well. You've done really well. 559 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:54,600 [André mutters reassuringly] 560 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,000 Talk another time about the rest, huh? 561 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:00,160 [Alex] No. 562 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,920 No, I… I would be still fed up. 563 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,880 - [André] You'll still be fed up? - Yes. 564 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,600 [André] We won't talk anymore. 565 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,280 [Jean] The police wanted to try one last throw of the dice. 566 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,920 Came up with this still more desperate idea 567 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,760 that perhaps we could go to Wimbledon Common and relive that. 568 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:21,120 They hoped, I think, 569 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,880 that seeing the actual site of the killing would trigger yet more memories. 570 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,120 I thought it was a very long shot, 571 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,760 but I didn't feel I could forbid them to do it. 572 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:31,960 [man] All right. 573 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,760 [André] So now, okay, it's not another repetitive session 574 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,040 in the same… in the same environment. 575 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,040 Maybe there is some value in it. 576 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,840 And when we got there, he was actually reluctant to get out of the car. 577 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:56,440 The thing that was bothering him was the presence of all these unknown adults, 578 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,240 because the police had turned up. 579 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,760 It wasn't just the detectives he was used to. 580 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,880 There were several other officers. 581 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,160 We eventually got out of the car, and we started walking. 582 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,720 Once we started walking, he was happy. 583 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:13,920 We were walking down that path. 584 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,840 We just started running, Alex and I, for the fun of it. 585 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,680 He was having a good time. But we had a bunch of coppers running behind us 586 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,720 and a psychologist running behind us. 587 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,680 [Jean] The police were taking us, 588 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,640 but I could see that the little boy knew where we were going… 589 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,640 and was remembering things. 590 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,360 We were getting nearer and nearer to the site of the crime. 591 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,920 I was aware the child was stiffening and stiffening, 592 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,320 and I'm pretty sure he was remembering. 593 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:01,960 [André] Alex? 594 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,800 The man who killed Mummy, where was he? 595 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:08,480 Was it here? 596 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,000 When did he start talking to Mummy? 597 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:14,960 Do you remember? 598 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:18,920 You said to me once 599 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,000 that he was talking to Mummy before he killed Mummy. 600 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,520 Do you remember where he was talking to Mummy? 601 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,120 Hmm? Down by the pond? 602 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,320 [Alex cries] 603 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,360 And then there came a point when he stumbled and fell forwards. 604 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,160 [Alex sobs] 605 00:34:40,240 --> 00:34:42,200 [Jean] And he howled and sobbed. 606 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,600 [Alex wails] 607 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,400 [Jean] And that's the point when André had had enough. 608 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,200 [André] This is fucking stupid. 609 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,160 [Alex cries] 610 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,960 He was crying, and, uh, I snapped. 611 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,920 That was enough for me. I had enough. 612 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,440 This was… This was, uh, taking too heavy a toll on… on… on him 613 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,440 and too heavy a toll on me as well. 614 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,480 [André shouts] Go! Let's fucking go! 615 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,800 So I picked him up and just headed back to the car. 616 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,360 [Alex cries loudly] 617 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:28,120 We, you know, we drove off at full speed, left them in our dust, basically. 618 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,240 But, uh, I was in no fit state, 619 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,840 so I pulled up as soon as I could, found a quiet spot. 620 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,360 And, uh, I really burst into tears, 621 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,120 and I just… I just couldn't stop. 622 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,320 I just couldn't, uh… prevent myself. 623 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,640 I couldn't be strong at that point. 624 00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:47,760 And I knew he was watching me. He was calm by then. 625 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,080 But, uh, I just had to let it out. 626 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,760 And then, you know, once I got myself together, 627 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,400 I said that… I said that I was sorry, 628 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,760 and, uh, we head back to Grandma's house. 629 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,760 So we pulled away. 630 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,240 [Jean] That was the last time I ever saw them. 631 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:10,800 I'd done what I could. 632 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,480 I wasn't very happy with what I'd done, but I'd tried and, um… 633 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,200 Sadness. And… 634 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,520 just awareness that it was an attempt that hadn't worked. 635 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,960 First, a notorious crime 636 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,640 that, two months ago, made headlines all over Britain. 637 00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:35,800 On Wimbledon Common in Southwest London, 638 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,040 a young mother, Rachel Nickell, was waylaid and repeatedly stabbed. 639 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,360 It appears to be a random killing, 640 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,320 which, of course, makes it extremely hard to solve. 641 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,120 Tonight, detectives are putting all their cards on the table, 642 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,520 and they're appealing for the nation's help to name the killer. 643 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,360 We came to a stage in the inquiry 644 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:58,800 when we were quite satisfied that the description we had, 645 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,920 there's a good chance he was the murderer. 646 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,640 So that was time now to go to the media 647 00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:06,640 to see if anybody could come up with any names 648 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,440 as to who that person might be. 649 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,320 [host] The man was in his twenties or thirties. 650 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,600 He was tall, more than five feet ten, and had short brown hair. 651 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,480 He had a white shirt with buttons and dark trousers, possibly blue, 652 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,840 and was carrying a small, dark bag. 653 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,720 Curiously, his belt was over his shirt rather than round his trousers. 654 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,520 Now, from this point, let's add some informed conjecture. 655 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:35,520 A consultant clinical psychologist is drawing up a likely profile of the killer. 656 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,160 [Paul Britton] What they got from me 657 00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:43,920 was a point-by-point psychological analysis of the killer, 658 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,000 in my view. 659 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,320 [host] The killer is under the age of 30. He lives locally. 660 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,440 He has few friends and has solitary hobbies. 661 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,720 He may have an interest in martial arts. 662 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,200 He likes pornography. 663 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,120 He doesn't have a steady girlfriend. 664 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,720 If he's had previous girlfriends, 665 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,640 they'll have found him unsatisfying, sexually inexperienced… 666 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:07,560 [Britton] I told them this is an offender who wouldn't live very far away. 667 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,160 This is someone who knew the common, who knew his way around. 668 00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:13,280 He would have been travelling on foot. 669 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,320 The telephone number to ring… 670 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,040 [Paul Penrose] After Crimewatch, 671 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,440 a lot of telephone calls came in. 672 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:21,880 As far as the Rachel Nickell murder is concerned, 673 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,040 90 calls here to the studio the last time I spoke to the team. 674 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,240 Ten of them are very interesting. 675 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,800 One man has gone straight to the top of their priority list. 676 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,480 [Penrose] We were getting phone calls from two or more local people, 677 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,920 saying that the artist's impression… 678 00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:44,920 looked like a man called Colin Stagg. 679 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,000 [tense music playing] 680 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,640 And they indicated that they thought 681 00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:53,280 he was the type of individual that could have carried out this killing. 682 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,800 And he admitted having been on the common 683 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,800 around about the same time as Rachel was found. 684 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,960 The lady who saw a man walking towards the murder scene 685 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,160 then later picked Stagg out of an identification parade 686 00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:10,320 as that person. 687 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,320 [reporter] Police say the man was arrested around midday yesterday. 688 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:15,960 He's still being questioned. 689 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,720 [Penrose] Stagg lived near to the common, 690 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,480 so when he was arrested, his flat was searched. 691 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,600 It was a very strange set-up in that flat. 692 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,680 I remember when we arrived, there was something on the front door. 693 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,800 It said, "Christians beware," or words to that effect. 694 00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:42,040 And there was one room 695 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,880 where the sort of signs of the Zodiac were painted on the floor, 696 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,440 and there was gothic images all around the place. 697 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,200 It was just a bizarre place. 698 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,160 One of the officers found a cupboard, 699 00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:55,640 and in the cupboard, there was some survivalist equipment. 700 00:39:55,720 --> 00:39:56,960 There were knives. 701 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,600 There was also a club with a ball on the end of it. 702 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:05,640 And it certainly indicated that this just wasn't a normal member of the public, 703 00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:08,120 that there was something odd about him. 704 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,000 Plus, of course, he fitted to a tee the offender profile. 705 00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:15,680 But there was a problem. 706 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,120 Despite the fact that he fitted the offender profile, 707 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,600 we just didn't have enough evidence to link him with the murder. 708 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,440 He admitted that he would sunbathe naked on the common, 709 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,040 and he was charged with indecent exposure. 710 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,560 But then he was released. 711 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,400 [music fades] 712 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:40,320 It was obviously disappointing, because not only was he a good suspect, 713 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,120 but he was the only suspect from the whole inquiry. 714 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,520 So we needed to work out, "Is he our man?" 715 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,560 And without forensic evidence, 716 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:52,400 we didn't know. 717 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,880 [soft, sorrowful music playing] 718 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,280 [André] After they released Colin Stagg, the press were on our doorstep. 719 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,400 Alex was the only witness to his mother's murder, 720 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,200 and whoever had perpetrated that was still on the loose. 721 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:12,760 So he was in danger. 722 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,840 That's when I knew we really weren't safe here, 723 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,640 and I had to take him away. 724 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,200 [tense music playing] 725 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,920 We didn't have a lot of trust in anybody. 726 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,280 So we just took every precaution possible not to be followed, not to be tracked… 727 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,760 and head off into the dark. 728 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,080 And we, you know, headed to the coast 729 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,560 to put as much distance between us and… 730 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,760 and a killer on the loose 731 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,560 and a press pack that was willing to stop at nothing. 732 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,160 And we left friends and family. We left everything material behind. 733 00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:56,960 We left the home that we'd shared. 734 00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,240 It was only what we could literally carry with us that we took forward. 735 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,480 We crossed the frontier and, uh, entered a new world. 736 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,000 [music softens] 737 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,480 [birds singing] 738 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,640 [music fades] 739 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,200 [Alex babbles] 740 00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:17,720 [gentle music playing] 741 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,000 Rachel and I had always talked about moving to France. 742 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,840 I'd spent a lot of time in France when I was a teenager. 743 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,000 Played a lot of tennis 744 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,320 and, uh, hitchhiked around, so I knew the country pretty well. 745 00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,800 We were in a small village, just a few miles from the coast. 746 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:50,960 Pulled up outside the front door for the first time 747 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,560 with the keys in our hand, opened the door, 748 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,240 just had a wonderful feeling of something new starting. 749 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,640 [indistinct speech] 750 00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:03,400 I've only got two. You've got about 50 over there. 751 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:04,640 Look under… 752 00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:06,720 It was absolutely idyllic. 753 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,480 A lovely little house. 754 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,160 A view out of the courtyard. 755 00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:15,520 There were chickens in the run. There were puppies running around. 756 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,720 And, uh, we really could finally stop 757 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:24,080 and… and take stock and feel some peace and quiet around us. 758 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,440 Alex, calm down. 759 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:30,840 - Calm down. - [Alex giggles] 760 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,480 You're gonna get a tummy ache if you eat like that. 761 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,880 What it felt like is that we'd left a great deal of the evil behind us. 762 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,640 You know, it felt like we were in a place of peace. 763 00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:42,360 [indistinct speech] 764 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,480 Finally, it seemed like things were… things were going in our direction. 765 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,480 It was, uh, absolute bliss. 766 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,080 You know? Just to have that anonymity again. 767 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,680 Good evening. The detective leading the hunt for the killer of Rachel Nickell, 768 00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,560 the young woman murdered on Wimbledon Common a year ago, 769 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,080 says the inquiry may be scaled down within weeks, 770 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:14,800 unless there's a major development. 771 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:20,560 I would think if nothing crucial comes to light within the next two months, 772 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,560 then I would say that will be the end of the investigation. 773 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,760 John Bassett was telling the press that there were no new leads, 774 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,960 that the inquiry, we'd gone as far as you could, 775 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:31,400 and it was winding down, 776 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,920 whereas all the time there was something going on. 777 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,000 [intriguing music playing] 778 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,840 [woman] It said, um, "I've enclosed a fancy letter, 779 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,800 and if you don't want to read it, then you don't have to." 780 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:50,000 Um, but curiosity got the better of me, and I had to read the letter. 781 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,800 [Paul Penrose] We received a phone call from a woman 782 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,520 who'd seen Colin Stagg on the television, 783 00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:57,920 and she said, "That man 784 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:03,440 is a man who I've had a lonely hearts club exchange of letters." 785 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:06,920 "And they're very strange letters." 786 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:09,200 [woman] Every word, 787 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,080 he uses the most filthiest, vulgar words you can use. 788 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,680 He asked if I liked the letter that he'd written to me. 789 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,560 Um, I said I wasn't impressed by it, basically, 790 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,800 and that he said he'd written me another one 791 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,000 and would I like him to send it to me, and I said no. 792 00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,520 If I did get another letter from him, I was gonna give them to the police. 793 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,840 [Penrose] She sent those letters to us, 794 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:35,480 which gave us some insight into the way that Colin Stagg was thinking. 795 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,200 Then John Bassett asked me to go upstairs to his office, 796 00:45:41,720 --> 00:45:44,360 and I was introduced to this female police officer. 797 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,840 Bassett said, "This is my detective sergeant, 798 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,360 and I want him to know what's happening." 799 00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:52,440 And then it was explained to me 800 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,840 that there was gonna be an undercover operation 801 00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,800 to discover if Colin Stagg's sexual fantasies 802 00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,960 would reveal some information about the murder 803 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,400 that only the murderer would know. 804 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:06,640 The police came to me 805 00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:10,000 and asked if I could help them with an undercover operation. 806 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:12,880 The way that it would work 807 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:18,320 is that the undercover police officer would write a letter to Colin Stagg 808 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,280 with the fake name Lizzie James. 809 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,760 She's trying to get him to write to her about his sexual fantasies 810 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:30,120 so that if he wrote back 811 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,920 in a way that was similar 812 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:38,240 to the way that the killer of Rachel Nickell might write back, 813 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,800 then you had the basis for further investigation. 814 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,440 And Colin Stagg did write back. 815 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,560 [Colin] Dear Lizzie, I'm so glad you like my letters 816 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:54,040 and that you are as broad-minded and uninhibited as me. 817 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:55,840 I want to dominate you. 818 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,440 The things I'm going to do to you will literally make your eyes water. 819 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,040 You will be left humiliated and dirty. 820 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:04,840 [Britton] The police were very excited 821 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:10,240 at the first sexual elements that came back from Colin Stagg. 822 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:15,280 They're now feeling justified in their operation, 823 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,120 that there was more to know, 824 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,240 and that they hadn't wasted their time. 825 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,320 [church bells ring] 826 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,520 [André] One day, after we'd been there for maybe a year, 827 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,440 Alex and I were doing pretend sword fighting. 828 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,400 [indistinct chatter] 829 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,400 And, uh, he said, "This is like when the bad man came." 830 00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,320 And I tried… 831 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:53,480 I caught myself, 832 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,960 and I tried to carry on as naturally as possible. 833 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,280 So, um, one morning, I just sat down at the little red table, 834 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,960 put the… put the… put the camera up, and, uh…. 835 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,480 and, uh, just attempted to talk about what happened. 836 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:18,920 Alex wanted to draw, 837 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,480 and he wanted me to help him with the drawing. 838 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:28,720 Dadda, can you help me draw Mummy on this piece of paper? 839 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,920 [André] As we continued with the drawing, Alex came up with information 840 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,840 which made it absolutely clear what he'd seen. 841 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,000 Did Mummy see him? 842 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,000 I don't think she did. 843 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:42,960 No? Did you see him first? 844 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,040 Yeah, I saw him first. 845 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,120 Did he have a bag? 846 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:50,680 Yeah. 847 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,000 And did he open it, or was it already open? 848 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:54,040 He opened it. 849 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:55,440 And what did he get out? 850 00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:56,480 A knife. 851 00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,000 There's Mummy. There's the bad man. 852 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,840 [André] Where's the knife? 853 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,920 - What did he do to you? - Knocked me over! 854 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,560 - He knocked you over? - Yeah. 855 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,920 The bad man was sticking his things in her. 856 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,480 - What was he sticking in her? - A knife. There's his knife. 857 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:23,200 Did you see it? 858 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:25,280 Yeah, I saw the knife. 859 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:26,920 Did you see all the times? 860 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,320 I saw it… Yeah, I saw it all. 861 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:32,200 All of it. 862 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:35,680 [André] He'd been there, seen it all, had… had… 863 00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,680 assimilated all of this, you know, survived nearly a year, 864 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,040 basically withholding this in his head on his own. 865 00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,920 - Did you see everything pretty much? - Yeah, I saw everything. 866 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:47,440 Did you look the other way? 867 00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,200 Yeah, I looked that way. 868 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,560 I looked that way to see if anything else was happening. 869 00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:56,960 - Did you? - Yeah. 870 00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:58,240 Was it really horrible? 871 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,040 Yes, it was really horrible. 872 00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,560 [André] It was very hard to hear. 873 00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,400 You know, this is your child. This is your baby. 874 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,600 He was there. Rachel was there. I wasn't there. 875 00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,200 I tried to imagine that all the way through that year, 876 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,680 over and over, night after night. I wanted to know what they'd been through, 877 00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,200 because I wanted to be able to do something about it 878 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,160 or share in some way. 879 00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:25,240 And here, you know, I was getting confirmation 880 00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:29,440 of exactly what, you know, what took place, what Alex had seen, 881 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:33,880 and, uh… it put me right back in a state of imagining 882 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,920 what that must have been like for… for… for both of them. 883 00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,280 And then a couple of weeks later, 884 00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:43,880 well, the news came 885 00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,800 that they were gonna charge Colin Stagg for Rachel's murder. 886 00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,880 Scotland Yard says Colin Francis Stagg was arrested at 5:30 this morning 887 00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,400 {\an8}at his home in Roehampton in Southwest London. 888 00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,400 {\an8}[reporter 1] The address where the arrest was made 889 00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,320 {\an8}is within a mile or so of the spot on Wimbledon Common 890 00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,680 {\an8}where Rachel was killed just over a year ago. 891 00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:04,880 [reporter 2] Police spent the day digging up his garden 892 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,040 and scanning the ground with metal detectors. 893 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:12,240 Colin Stagg was arrested, uh, and brought to Wimbledon Police Station, 894 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:14,560 uh, as a suspect for murder. 895 00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,360 [reporter 3] His detention followed an undercover operation 896 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,440 involving a woman police constable. 897 00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,280 She struck up a close relationship with Stagg. 898 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,880 [man 1] Would you like to introduce yourself formally? 899 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,640 [woman] Yes, I'm a serving police officer. 900 00:51:28,720 --> 00:51:31,920 For the purpose of this interview, I'm known as Lizzie James. 901 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,800 [man 2] If I were to show you some 30 or 40 letters 902 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,040 that you've exchanged with Lizzie James, 903 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,160 would you have anything to say concerning your desire 904 00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:46,480 to have sexual intercourse and sexual practices 905 00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,680 on Wimbledon Common and in open woodland 906 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:52,480 involving the use of knives… 907 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:53,560 No comment. 908 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,440 …where blood is caused to flow? 909 00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:57,480 No comment. 910 00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,280 [Paul Britton] During the undercover operation, 911 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,200 Colin Stagg met with the undercover policewoman, 912 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,280 and what he did was hand her a letter 913 00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,440 which introduced the notion of knives and all sorts of other things 914 00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,760 that were present in the fantasies of the killer. 915 00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,000 [Lizzie] Do you remember this letter now, Colin? 916 00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:16,240 No comment. 917 00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:19,480 [Lizzie] "The man then goes over to his pile of clothes 918 00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:22,040 and produces some string and a knife." 919 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,720 What the killer of Rachel Nickell had 920 00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,560 was a series of very specific elements in their fantasy 921 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,360 that are not that common. 922 00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:37,640 And now Colin Stagg seems to have exactly that same set of fantasies. 923 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,920 [man 2] We have to look at the fantasies as they've progressed 924 00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,000 as you've written to Lizzie James. 925 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:47,160 The increasing deviance, 926 00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:50,160 the increasing domination, the increasing violence. 927 00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,080 The need to humiliate and dominate. 928 00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,400 There was just so much pointing towards him as being the murderer. 929 00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,120 [man 2] I think what happened is you walked off down the windmill path, 930 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,320 and you sat down on a little patch of grass. 931 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:06,360 I think you actually described it in one of your letters to Lizzie James. 932 00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,480 The fact that you see this gorgeous blonde woman 933 00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:12,560 approaching from a distance. 934 00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,160 - Is that what happened to Rachel? - No comment. 935 00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:18,560 [man 2] You looked down from your vantage point and spied her. 936 00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,040 And you rushed down, and you ambushed her. 937 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:24,040 And you pushed the little boy face down. 938 00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,320 Pushed the little boy face down into the mud. 939 00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,960 - No comment. - [man 2] Then you stabbed Rachel 49 times. 940 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:33,920 No comment. 941 00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:40,120 On 15th July 1992, on Wimbledon Common, 942 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,440 you murdered Rachel Nickell, 943 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,400 causing her death by multiple stab wounds. 944 00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:46,960 No comment. 945 00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,040 [indistinct chatter] 946 00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,920 [reporter] After being held overnight at a police station nearby, 947 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,360 Colin Stagg was driven quickly into Wimbledon Magistrates Court, 948 00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,760 charged with the murder of Rachel Nickell. 949 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:05,080 Magistrates remanded him in custody until next week. 950 00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,800 [Penrose] The Crown Prosecution Service were consulted 951 00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:12,680 with all the evidence relating to the letters and the interview, 952 00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,120 and it was decided that there was enough evidence 953 00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,320 to charge him with the murder. 954 00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,080 With Colin Stagg off the streets, 955 00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:25,360 as far as I was concerned, this was all finished. 956 00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:30,720 So I decided that it was a good time to go for something else. 957 00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:33,520 So I left the investigation. 958 00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,680 The fact that Colin Stagg was now in custody, 959 00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,000 it gave a certain… certain feeling of relief. 960 00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:42,960 But we'd learned really early on, 961 00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:48,640 I knew that if you'd been through a situation as we'd had, 962 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:55,400 you're constantly protecting yourself, and you have a wait-and-see mentality. 963 00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:58,840 [crickets chirping] 964 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:06,960 [quiet, tense music playing] 965 00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,800 Police in South London hunting the killer of a four-year-old girl and her mother 966 00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,520 say it's one of the most shocking cases they've ever had to investigate. 967 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,000 I'm Mummy. [laughs] 968 00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,160 [reporter] Close friends of Samantha and Jazmine Bisset 969 00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:26,120 are still trying to take in what happened. 970 00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:30,720 What has shocked police is the ferocity of the murders. 971 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:34,360 A senior officer said Sam Bisset's injuries were horrific. 972 00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:37,960 [man] I mean, I consider myself fairly hard, 973 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,360 uh, not affected much, 974 00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,400 but… [sighs] 975 00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,160 …even now, it makes me think, 976 00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:48,920 "Christ, what on earth went on there?" I mean, it was horrendous, you know? 977 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,080 Micky Banks was my detective superintendent. 978 00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,560 He was the senior investigating officer, and he actually… 979 00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:57,440 I remember he put his arm around me 980 00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,880 and said, "Rog," you know, "just brace yourself, son." 981 00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,160 "This is the worst one I've ever seen." I remember that to this day. 982 00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,720 And then we went in together with the forensic team 983 00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,120 and went through the flat. 984 00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,560 It was a small flat. It was one-bedroomed, 985 00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,720 and we understood that Samantha Bisset lived there 986 00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,840 with her four-year-old daughter, but they had to share a bedroom. 987 00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,120 She was a single mum, probably didn't have much money. 988 00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:31,000 There were lots of toys in the bedroom, lots of Jazmine's paintings on the walls. 989 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,000 It seemed to me that they were very close. 990 00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:37,720 Uh, and when we walked in, 991 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:42,880 it became apparent that Samantha had been possibly stabbed to death in the hallway, 992 00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,320 dragged through to the living room, 993 00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:50,000 and placed on a large cushion in, like, a star formation. 994 00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:52,960 And she'd been mutilated. 995 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,600 Uh, an attempt had been made to remove her legs, 996 00:56:56,680 --> 00:56:59,120 and the body had been opened up. 997 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,120 When we walked back down the hallway, 998 00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,280 the bedroom was at the right-hand side near to the front door. 999 00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:09,280 And we went into the bedroom, 1000 00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:14,440 and there was a little girl's head peeping out of a… underneath a duvet. 1001 00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,440 You could just see these tousled, um, hair, 1002 00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,160 and it turned out that she'd been suffocated 1003 00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:22,640 and sexually assaulted. 1004 00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:25,600 So she was dead, but she looked like she was asleep. 1005 00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:28,520 [sorrowful music playing] 1006 00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:29,720 [Micky] First thoughts was, 1007 00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,000 "We've gotta get whoever done this, because this is a maniac." 1008 00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:39,320 Everybody wanted to catch this bastard that had done this crime, you know? 1009 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,440 Uh, it was… it was a thing that we all agreed on, 1010 00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:44,720 because if you don't, there'll be another murder. 1011 00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:46,840 Because once these people start this, 1012 00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:50,640 you know, it's quite obvious they would become a serial killer. 1013 00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:56,160 There was hundreds of fingerprints in the flat, 1014 00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,960 and, of course, it had to go through the fingerprint department, 1015 00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,000 each one looked at individually. 1016 00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,560 The fingerprint officers would look through a magnifying glass 1017 00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:12,280 at a fingerprint and identify it through the swirls and the marks, 1018 00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,000 which is an art. 1019 00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,440 But within maybe two months, 1020 00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:21,360 we'd managed to eliminate all of those finger marks, 1021 00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:24,960 which in itself is quite unusual 1022 00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:29,200 because there's normally one or two marks which remain unidentified, 1023 00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,640 and they're often the suspect's. 1024 00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:35,000 There was no… no DNA. There was no clues. 1025 00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:38,600 Nothing at all that would help the investigation. 1026 00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,920 We found absolutely nothing, which is most unusual. 1027 00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,400 [reporter] There was no sign of a break-in at the flat, 1028 00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,360 and detectives admit they have few clues in this case. 1029 00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,840 As for the motive for this murder of a mother and her young daughter, 1030 00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,280 it appears only the killer knows that. 1031 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:57,880 I was approached by my then-detective chief superintendent 1032 00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,760 that, uh, I should get Paul Britton in 1033 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:03,800 because he was an expert. 1034 00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,000 He'd done a lot of work on the Rachel Nickell inquiry. 1035 00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:15,040 [Paul Britton] I was then taken to the scene of the murders itself. 1036 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:20,160 The flat that Samantha and Jazmine Bisset lived in 1037 00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:22,840 is really quite important in its location. 1038 00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,520 Immediately behind the flat, 1039 00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:28,000 there is a garden area. 1040 00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:33,160 And then beyond that, 1041 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:35,880 you have a tree-banked area, 1042 00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,600 where he sits, he watches, he fulfils his fantasies, 1043 00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:41,880 and gets these sort of thoughts. 1044 00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:43,840 "You're not going to tease me." 1045 00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,240 "You're not going to ridicule me." 1046 00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:48,880 "Let's see how you get on when I've finished with you." 1047 00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,640 Paul Britton's a clinical psychologist. How much do you think you know him? 1048 00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:55,640 I think we know quite well what was going through his mind 1049 00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:57,360 at the time of the offense, 1050 00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:01,720 but I would like him to tell me how he got started on the pathway 1051 01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,160 that led him eventually to kill, to harm Samantha. 1052 01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:06,680 You'd like him to tell you? 1053 01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,000 He's not very likely to ring up and say, 1054 01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:12,120 "Can I speak to Paul Britton, please?" and here are his answers. 1055 01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,720 I think that there is a possibility that he might want to do that. 1056 01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:21,480 [Roger] It's extremely rare that strangers attack members of the public. 1057 01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:26,160 Children being present is even rarer. 1058 01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:31,120 He's probably done something similar before. 1059 01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:35,640 He's not gone out and just done this. You work up to that level of violence. 1060 01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:40,760 And we couldn't fathom out how, 1061 01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:44,880 within a gap of 16 months 1062 01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:50,120 between the Wimbledon Common murder and the Plumstead murder, 1063 01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:57,560 how two different people could commit such ferocious, audacious crimes. 1064 01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:01,360 So was it possible that the same person committed both? 1065 01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:08,040 The victims were very similar in age and looks. 1066 01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:12,280 Both had a child present during the attacks. 1067 01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:17,040 And the number of stab wounds on Rachel Nickell and Samantha Bisset 1068 01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:18,640 were in the region of 50. 1069 01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:22,880 So at our request, 1070 01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:25,960 the senior detectives investigating the Nickell investigation 1071 01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:27,480 came over to our incident room 1072 01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:32,320 to discuss the similarities between both scenes. 1073 01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,800 And they basically dismissed our suggestion 1074 01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:41,160 that the two crimes could have been committed by the same person. 1075 01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:42,520 Because, of course, 1076 01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,800 Colin Stagg was in custody when the Bissets were murdered. 1077 01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:53,520 And we tried to impress upon them that they may have got the wrong person. 1078 01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:57,120 [woman] And how was that met? 1079 01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:01,960 Uh, with hostility and just absolutely… 1080 01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,560 "There's no way we haven't got the right person." 1081 01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,440 [Micky] They had their suspect, and, uh, they just… 1082 01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:12,720 they weren't interested in discussing it. 1083 01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,200 They were convinced that they had the right chap. 1084 01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,520 [sing-song] Opening the presents! 1085 01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:33,960 [giggles] 1086 01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:38,160 [André] It had been a year and a half, and Alex was, you know, in a good place. 1087 01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:42,520 There are not much presents under the tree now. 1088 01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:44,480 [André] There's loads of presents under the tree. 1089 01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:47,120 He was settled in at school, happy with his friends. 1090 01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:49,280 So, you know, he was really thriving. 1091 01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:51,240 It's a big crane. 1092 01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:56,880 [André] Around that time, 1093 01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,480 the word got to me that, uh… 1094 01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:05,800 that the police needed Alex to give evidence at Colin Stagg's trial. 1095 01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:11,480 They were hoping he could provide physical descriptions of the assailant 1096 01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:14,600 and also descriptions of his movements before and after the attack. 1097 01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:19,880 So once again, we're caught between a rock and a hard place. 1098 01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:21,840 What do we do? 1099 01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:26,040 If this is the person and, uh, we don't turn up, 1100 01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:27,400 he's back on the street. 1101 01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:29,680 But what is the price that Alex is gonna pay 1102 01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,960 in coming face-to-face with the person who did this? 1103 01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:35,040 [TV playing in background] 1104 01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:44,360 [suspenseful music playing] 1105 01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,320 [Micky] I think it was just a feeling, you know. 1106 01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:53,760 Just a feeling that there was something so wrong here. 1107 01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,600 Because it was one of the first crimes I've ever been to 1108 01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,200 where every print that was there was eliminated. 1109 01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:16,400 [Roger] Micky Banks spoke to me, 1110 01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:21,640 and he wanted the finger marks to be searched again, 1111 01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:24,360 especially those belonging to Samantha Bisset. 1112 01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:28,520 Micky really, really pushed hard for that to be done, 1113 01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:32,320 and the fingerprint branch eventually gave in 1114 01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:37,640 and agreed to re-examine some of the more suspicious marks 1115 01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:39,840 which were found at the Bisset flat. 1116 01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:51,560 Sometime afterwards, he called me and said, "We've had a result." 1117 01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:54,160 Some of the fingerprints 1118 01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,960 that had initially been identified as belonging to Samantha Bisset… 1119 01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:02,000 did, in fact, 1120 01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:04,400 belong to a man called 1121 01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:06,240 Robert Napper. 1122 01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:10,480 [Micky] And that was a eureka moment, I'll tell you. 1123 01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:15,520 I'll never forget it, you know. God… Jesus, I was over the moon. 1124 01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:20,800 They found about three or four prints of Napper in the flat. 1125 01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:24,120 Uh, one was on the ledge outside the patio door, 1126 01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:25,640 and some on the inside, 1127 01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:29,680 where he'd obviously got in through the French windows. 1128 01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,440 He lived locally. He had a very, very short criminal history 1129 01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:38,160 and had, in fact, spent, uh, two months in custody. 1130 01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:40,920 [reporter] Napper was arrested at his home on Friday. 1131 01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:42,800 He was living in Plumstead High Street, 1132 01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:45,200 half a mile from where the killings took place. 1133 01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,720 After he was arrested and assessed, it was apparent 1134 01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:51,040 he was suffering from some sort of mental illness. 1135 01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:52,760 And when he was interviewed, 1136 01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:56,840 um, he did give very, very strange answers in the third person, 1137 01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:58,960 as if he was talking about someone else. 1138 01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:03,720 He was the sort of bloke who thought that he was different to the rest of us. 1139 01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:06,440 He was aloof. Weird, weird chap. 1140 01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:08,760 Everybody said the same, anybody who met him. 1141 01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:10,360 He just… He was weird. 1142 01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:15,200 [Roger] We went to his flat at Plumstead High Street, 1143 01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:17,160 a very, very small bedsit. 1144 01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:22,840 Uh, he didn't have a bed or a mattress, which I thought was strange. 1145 01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:25,040 He slept on the floor, apparently. 1146 01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,880 And then we began to search the property. 1147 01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:35,760 And very quickly we found the red toolbox, 1148 01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:37,760 which was on the floor. 1149 01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:41,000 Uh, it was padlocked, 1150 01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:44,360 and obviously we were desperate to find out what was inside. 1151 01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:45,680 When we opened it, 1152 01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,360 there were knives. 1153 01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:51,040 There was a book. 1154 01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:54,840 And in the book, there were methods of, I think, strangulation 1155 01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:57,760 and vulnerable points on the body, 1156 01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:03,120 which were used to attack people and either immobilize them or kill them. 1157 01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:05,720 There was an A to Z. 1158 01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:12,280 And in his A to Z, there were all sorts of markings and doodles. 1159 01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:15,640 At the time, we couldn't work out what they were. 1160 01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,360 And we thought they were obviously gonna be very important 1161 01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:26,160 in the possible identification of, uh, of scenes of his crimes. 1162 01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:28,840 And on one of the doodles, 1163 01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:32,400 there was a set of steps 1164 01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:37,760 which looked like it could have possibly been Heathfield Terrace. 1165 01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:44,360 And in that doodle, he wrote the words "potential area." 1166 01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:48,920 He'd identified it as a possible target for him. 1167 01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,040 A 28-year-old man has been charged with the murders 1168 01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:53,840 of a single mother, Samantha Bisset, 1169 01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:56,200 and her four-year-old daughter last November. 1170 01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:58,600 [reporter] Today, Robert Napper denied murder 1171 01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:00,680 but admitted their manslaughter. 1172 01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:04,360 Samantha's killer is expected to be sentenced later today. 1173 01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:09,640 The really sad thing about this case is that Samantha was an only child, 1174 01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:12,120 and her mother, Margaret, 1175 01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:14,400 never recovered from the loss 1176 01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,720 of her only grandchild and her only daughter. 1177 01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:20,960 [Micky] I mean, it's bad enough losing your daughter, 1178 01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:22,800 but your granddaughter as well? 1179 01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:25,840 The family's wiped out. 1180 01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:30,120 You know, tragedy. Awful. 1181 01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:34,600 And to add to the distress of this case, 1182 01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:36,200 her mother died 1183 01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:39,760 the very day before Napper was due to stand trial at the Old Bailey. 1184 01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:45,480 So it's just a very… very, very sad case. 1185 01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:54,280 [suspenseful music playing] 1186 01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:57,040 Sometime later, 1187 01:08:58,480 --> 01:09:00,240 looking at his maps again, 1188 01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:05,560 although most of the markings were within Southeast London… 1189 01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:11,520 there was a particular mark 1190 01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:14,680 way away from Plumstead 1191 01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,160 in Richmond Park, Southwest London. 1192 01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:20,040 It's called Isabella Plantation, 1193 01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:26,280 which was a plot of open land very, very close to Wimbledon Common, 1194 01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:28,600 the scene of the Rachel Nickell murder. 1195 01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:35,960 {\an8}[reporter] Stagg was first questioned by detectives last September. 1196 01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:38,240 He's due to appear here at court 1197 01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:40,960 charged with murdering Rachel Nickell this morning. 1198 01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:51,120 I was informed before the trial that, uh, Alex wouldn't be needed, 1199 01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:53,160 that his testimony wasn't necessary. 1200 01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:56,640 A part of me was very grateful he wouldn't have to go through the ordeal. 1201 01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:58,200 Another part of me was concerned 1202 01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:01,600 that we weren't putting everything into this we possibly could. 1203 01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:07,840 And then a few days later, the shock news came. 1204 01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:12,160 A friend called to see how I was, to see if I was holding up with the news. 1205 01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:13,760 And I said, "With what news?" 1206 01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:16,040 And he said, "You don't know?" 1207 01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:18,560 He said, "It's been… It's been thrown out." 1208 01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,920 The man accused of the brutal murder of Rachel Nickell 1209 01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:24,720 on Wimbledon Common two years ago 1210 01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:28,560 today walked free from court before the trial proper had even begun. 1211 01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:30,240 It was an absolute shock. 1212 01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:32,760 An Old Bailey judge launched a stinging attack 1213 01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:35,360 on police methods today after throwing out the case 1214 01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:38,320 against the man accused of killing Rachel Nickell. 1215 01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:42,040 [reporter 1] Colin Stagg walked free, having spent more than a year in custody 1216 01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:45,240 after being entrapped by an undercover police operation 1217 01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:50,000 that was strongly criticized by the judge and ruled to be inadmissible. 1218 01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:55,840 I was angry because whoever decided that this evidence was good 1219 01:10:55,920 --> 01:11:00,200 and would stand up to challenge had obviously made a big mistake. 1220 01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:03,680 And I was angry that maybe the person who decided to kick it all out 1221 01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:07,560 was going to an extreme, because there was strong circumstantial evidence. 1222 01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:11,960 There was probably a feeling that if there was a decision to be made 1223 01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:16,000 as to whether Colin Stagg committed a murder, 1224 01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:18,400 that decision should be made by a jury. 1225 01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:20,800 But we didn't get that far. 1226 01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:25,600 [reporter 2] William Clegg QC, defending, argued WPC James had lied, 1227 01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:28,160 offered inducements of sex and a relationship. 1228 01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:29,760 [reporter 3] Mr. Justice Ognall said 1229 01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:33,920 the police behavior betrayed not merely an excess of zeal 1230 01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,560 but a blatant attempt to incriminate a suspect 1231 01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:40,080 by positive and deceptive conduct of the grossest kind. 1232 01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:41,200 We failed. 1233 01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:44,560 And, um, that is not a good feeling. 1234 01:11:45,480 --> 01:11:49,200 "My life has been ruined by a mixture of half-baked psychological theories 1235 01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:52,240 and some stories written to satisfy the strange sexual requests 1236 01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:54,200 of an undercover police officer." 1237 01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:57,160 "The judge recognized there was never any evidence against me, 1238 01:11:57,240 --> 01:11:59,920 no forensic evidence, no confession evidence, nothing." 1239 01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:03,880 [reporter 4] Asked if Stagg should receive an apology from the police, 1240 01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:06,760 {\an8}Sir Paul Condon said the police had already apologized 1241 01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:08,640 {\an8}to those it thought necessary. 1242 01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:12,960 I… I make no apologies at all 1243 01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:16,600 for the Metropolitan Police inquiry in this case. 1244 01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:19,520 I fully support the action of my officers, 1245 01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:23,320 and I take full responsibility for police action in this case. 1246 01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:27,400 [poignant music playing] 1247 01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:31,400 [André] It felt like we were back at day one, 1248 01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:35,920 you know, with the killer on the loose and no protection. 1249 01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,120 And what really underlined that 1250 01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,960 was Paul Condon, the head of the Met, making a statement 1251 01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,320 that they weren't looking for anybody else. 1252 01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:48,240 At the moment, there is no new information, 1253 01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:50,880 no new leads for us to explore. 1254 01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:56,320 [André] They made it clear that they thought Stagg got away with murder 1255 01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:57,800 and was now on the loose. 1256 01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:02,000 I was left feeling like I couldn't trust anybody, 1257 01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:06,600 and we always wondered whether or not we were treated in a different way 1258 01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,840 because, uh, I was a young man of color. 1259 01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:13,880 You lose all faith in… in the system. 1260 01:13:14,480 --> 01:13:16,680 So now any closure that we… 1261 01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:21,200 that was gonna be truly meaningful was something we'd have to find for ourselves, 1262 01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:23,600 and we couldn't rely on outside circumstances 1263 01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:25,120 to provide us with that. 1264 01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:30,200 [gentle music playing] 1265 01:13:37,480 --> 01:13:41,000 [man] For many, many years, there was no real… real progress. 1266 01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:47,360 Nothing had really changed in terms of, you know, what we knew. 1267 01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:54,440 From day one, it was the three of us. 1268 01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:58,960 You know, my father and me and our dog, Molly. 1269 01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:01,280 That was who we were as a family. 1270 01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:05,400 My father knew that I understood what had happened. 1271 01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:08,000 That my mother loved me, 1272 01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:12,400 and, um, that she wouldn't have wanted to leave me. 1273 01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:15,520 So, my father and me, 1274 01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:18,080 we didn't talk about… about my mother. 1275 01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:20,320 You know? We didn't talk about the past. 1276 01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:26,800 But I still… I felt an anger that this had happened, 1277 01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:32,160 and, you know, that no matter what I did, I couldn't stop it from happening. 1278 01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:40,240 I think if you witness that degree of evil, 1279 01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,880 you know, as a small child, 1280 01:14:44,440 --> 01:14:47,440 the illusion that you have, you know, that your parents, 1281 01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:50,120 no matter how good a job they do, 1282 01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:52,640 can really protect you from harm, 1283 01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:55,600 I think that that… you know, that collapses. 1284 01:14:56,880 --> 01:15:00,000 [André] Alex was absolutely a really sweet little boy. 1285 01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:03,120 There was a joy that was there. 1286 01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:08,240 But then in the preteen years, there was an anger, you know, 1287 01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:12,040 and the anger was, you know, quite rightly directed towards me. 1288 01:15:13,520 --> 01:15:17,000 I was very angry about a lot of the things we'd lived through. 1289 01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:21,760 The sessions that went on for weeks and months. 1290 01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:25,040 The thing that was most distressing for me was to be taken back, 1291 01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:26,920 you know, to that day repeatedly 1292 01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:30,920 and suggestions given about how I should feel about it. 1293 01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:34,600 And, you know, I guess I carried that with me somewhat. 1294 01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:39,400 [André] He did get into trouble with the authorities. 1295 01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:44,040 Just small stuff, but the police were on the doorstep on occasions. 1296 01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:50,240 [Alex] I don't think that I had the same… the same respect, 1297 01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:53,520 the same trust for my father as I once had. 1298 01:15:55,360 --> 01:16:00,120 And the fundamental point was that he was the protector of the family as the father 1299 01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:06,680 and, you know, unfortunately had allowed this to happen to us. 1300 01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:11,920 So in my teenage years, you know, we had a lot of conflict. 1301 01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:19,440 [André] I had a huge sense of guilt that… that I hadn't protected my family. 1302 01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:23,120 And you do feel stupid. 1303 01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:24,520 You feel like a fool, 1304 01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:30,240 because we're told to put our security in the hands of other agencies. 1305 01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:34,400 Once upon a time, it was the Wild West, and you took the law into your own hands, 1306 01:16:34,480 --> 01:16:38,680 and you protected, you know, your loved ones with whatever it took. 1307 01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,040 And that's what hit me at the time. 1308 01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:44,320 I didn't do that. 1309 01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:46,280 And I wish I had. 1310 01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:53,960 [music fades] 1311 01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:58,320 [Alex] With every week that goes by, with every month that goes by, 1312 01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:00,400 with every year that goes by, 1313 01:17:00,480 --> 01:17:03,560 you've kind of come to terms with, on some level, 1314 01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:05,560 that this may never be resolved. 1315 01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:10,000 [suspenseful music playing] 1316 01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:11,720 [carousel clicks] 1317 01:17:23,480 --> 01:17:29,280 [woman] By 2002, the Rachel Nickell case did become a cold case. 1318 01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:38,320 The police came and asked if I and my team would have a look at it. 1319 01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:46,640 I knew from reading the newspapers that this had been a very violent attack. 1320 01:17:47,440 --> 01:17:48,520 But I was aware 1321 01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:53,160 Colin Stagg had been accused and then acquitted. 1322 01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:56,840 But I think he was still a suspect as far as the police were concerned. 1323 01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:01,840 And so they wanted us just to cast a fresh pair of eyes over it 1324 01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:03,120 and see whether or not, 1325 01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:05,760 out of the things that they'd collected at the time, 1326 01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:08,080 whether there was anything in that 1327 01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:10,680 that could possibly be used, um, 1328 01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:14,240 to identify Rachel's attacker. 1329 01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:21,720 There were some tapings, these sticky tape lifts, 1330 01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:24,920 um, taken from Rachel's body 1331 01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:27,960 and particularly the intimate parts of her body. 1332 01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:31,920 And we noticed 1333 01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:36,280 that the original scientists hadn't found any DNA on these tapings. 1334 01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:40,440 And so we knew immediately that something was wrong, 1335 01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:42,560 because there should've been 1336 01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:45,520 an enormous amount of Rachel's own DNA on these tapings. 1337 01:18:46,440 --> 01:18:48,800 I think what probably happened is, 1338 01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:51,680 if you have too much DNA in a sample, 1339 01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:55,480 it can swamp the technique so that you don't see anything. 1340 01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:59,680 And so one of the first things we did was, of course, to repeat it, 1341 01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:02,280 but doing it in a slightly different way. 1342 01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:04,360 [suspenseful music continues] 1343 01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:10,560 Just as expected, we got lots of Rachel's DNA. 1344 01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:19,080 But we also got a tiny trace of male DNA. 1345 01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:25,040 When we got this hint of male DNA, 1346 01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:26,760 we really didn't know 1347 01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:31,360 whether we'd be able to develop it enough, get enough information out of it 1348 01:19:31,440 --> 01:19:35,600 to identify one particular individual. 1349 01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,040 And so we developed a whole new technique, 1350 01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:42,800 a new sensitive technique, 1351 01:19:43,480 --> 01:19:48,680 um, and this involved taking a tiny amount of DNA from a sample 1352 01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:52,840 and then multiplying up the DNA, 1353 01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:54,840 or we call it amplifying. 1354 01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:58,400 So you've got several times your original amount, 1355 01:19:58,480 --> 01:20:00,680 so you've got enough to actually analyze. 1356 01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:03,440 It took about two years 1357 01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:08,160 to develop this technique to the point where we could use it. 1358 01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:14,480 Before we ran the… uh, the information that we had, 1359 01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:17,160 this DNA profile we had, through the database, 1360 01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:19,360 we checked it against Colin Stagg, 1361 01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:22,680 and it definitely didn't match him. 1362 01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:24,120 [keyboard keys clacking] 1363 01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:28,000 And so we put it through the National DNA Database. 1364 01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:32,920 And when we did that, that's when it came up as a match. 1365 01:20:35,480 --> 01:20:37,080 [André] The phone rang one day, 1366 01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:41,360 out of the blue, and it was the police, and they had news. 1367 01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,800 And the news was there was a positive identification. 1368 01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:48,960 And they said that the person that had been identified 1369 01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:50,600 was a completely new name. 1370 01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:55,800 [Angela] The DNA database produced a match 1371 01:20:56,920 --> 01:20:58,880 for someone called Robert Napper. 1372 01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:10,600 And then we discovered that Napper was in Broadmoor 1373 01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:16,080 because he'd also committed a murder of a mother and a young daughter. 1374 01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:18,160 [poignant music playing] 1375 01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:23,280 It had been somebody else all the time. 1376 01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:25,600 So that moment in time 1377 01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:29,360 was when our worst possible scenario had proved to be played out, 1378 01:21:29,440 --> 01:21:31,240 that somebody else had been murdered 1379 01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:33,640 by the same person in the same circumstances. 1380 01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:35,360 Another family's been destroyed. 1381 01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:42,560 So if I didn't know how blessed I'd been that Alex survived, 1382 01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:45,920 when we found out what happened to Samantha and Jazmine, 1383 01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:48,680 I thank God every day. 1384 01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:52,680 Because it's only by the grace of God that… that we've survived together, 1385 01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:55,840 and it's only by the grace of God that he survived physically. 1386 01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:57,880 [poignant music continues] 1387 01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:05,880 [music fades] 1388 01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:07,960 [crowd cheering, whistling on TV] 1389 01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:12,840 [man] I was watching a football match on TV one evening. 1390 01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:16,760 There was a knock on my door, 1391 01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:20,880 and I was a bit annoyed 'cause I was missing the match. 1392 01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:28,000 There was two journalists standing there. And they said, um… um, 1393 01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:30,800 "Did you know that the police have arrested another man 1394 01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:32,600 in relation to the Nickell murder, 1395 01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:35,280 and they got DNA evidence to prove he was guilty?" 1396 01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:38,120 I was like, "Can you come back in about an hour's time?" 1397 01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:39,720 "I'm watching the match." 1398 01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:42,120 They were like, "No problem," and they walked off. 1399 01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:45,880 I was sick of the whole thing, you know? 1400 01:22:45,960 --> 01:22:48,040 It dragged on for about 15 years. 1401 01:22:48,120 --> 01:22:50,760 [reporter 1] Colin Stagg had police protection today 1402 01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:53,680 as the Rachel Nickell case continued to haunt him. 1403 01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:57,040 [Colin] From when I was arrested, there were articles in the newspapers 1404 01:22:57,120 --> 01:22:59,240 stirring people's emotions up against me. 1405 01:22:59,320 --> 01:23:01,960 People shouting out stuff like, "Guilty," "Hang him," 1406 01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:03,360 stuff like that, you know. 1407 01:23:03,440 --> 01:23:06,600 [reporter 2] Mr. Stagg remained uncomfortably in the media spotlight 1408 01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:08,280 even after his release. 1409 01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:09,880 [woman] Don't! 1410 01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:12,920 [Colin] Instilling in people's minds 1411 01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:17,240 that, "We know we had the right man, but he got off on a technicality." 1412 01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:20,040 You know? So I had to live with that. 1413 01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:22,240 [man] Many people thought he was guilty, 1414 01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:26,360 but nobody actually heard the evidence either for him or against him. 1415 01:23:26,440 --> 01:23:29,720 That meant that he was in a kind of limbo for all these years. 1416 01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:32,720 Now, 15 years on, a man has been charged. 1417 01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:34,800 He's 41-year-old Robert Napper. 1418 01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:37,880 The last man to be charged, Colin Stagg, was cleared 1419 01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:40,720 because a policewoman had tried to entrap him. 1420 01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:45,080 [Colin] I'd never had a proper girlfriend up to the point of 29. 1421 01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:48,320 So when I received a letter from Lizzie James, 1422 01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:51,480 I just felt really, um… happy 1423 01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:54,040 that, um, a woman had shown some interest in me. 1424 01:23:54,800 --> 01:24:00,320 It is clear that he is completely innocent of any involvement in that case. 1425 01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:03,360 And I today apologize to him 1426 01:24:03,440 --> 01:24:06,840 for the mistakes that were made in the early 1990s. 1427 01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:11,400 [Colin] I had very low self-esteem anyway before this started. 1428 01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:15,520 This knocked me back even further, so even deeper and deeper. 1429 01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:19,640 It did make me feel very paranoid. 1430 01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:23,720 If I would accidentally sort of look at a woman crossing the road and that, 1431 01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:26,680 I used to immediately think, like, "No, look away," 1432 01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:28,640 because somebody could be watching me 1433 01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:30,840 thinking, "Hang on, he's stalking that woman." 1434 01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:35,040 And I just thought, "Well, you know, this is your life now." 1435 01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:39,920 "You've just got to get on with it. You know, don't trust anybody." 1436 01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:54,360 {\an8}[André] On the build-up to the trial, one of the lead detectives said, uh, 1437 01:24:54,440 --> 01:24:57,000 "After you fly in," he said, "we'll meet." 1438 01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:01,920 There was something I needed to know before we got to the courtroom itself. 1439 01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:06,360 Seven o'clock in the evening, we met at Hendon Police Station. 1440 01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:09,760 He showed me into a back room. 1441 01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:15,240 We're just the two of us present, and he pushed a dossier across the table. 1442 01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:17,800 [tense music playing] 1443 01:25:17,880 --> 01:25:20,000 What I saw in the dossier of documents 1444 01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:25,440 was just what an utter chaotic catalog of errors 1445 01:25:25,960 --> 01:25:27,680 this whole investigation had been. 1446 01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:32,080 It was absolutely devastating. 1447 01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:36,720 It took me all the way back to the very first day. 1448 01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:38,680 The very first call, 1449 01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:41,960 the very first news that Rachel had been taken from us, 1450 01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:44,520 and that Alex had been through such an ordeal. 1451 01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:46,760 We'd been trying to make sense of that 1452 01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:50,040 week after week, month after month, year after year. 1453 01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:53,640 And all that's just exploded. 1454 01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:58,560 Because here it says it was all preventable. 1455 01:25:59,480 --> 01:26:01,240 [sorrowful music playing] 1456 01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:08,320 [Roger] In the summer of 1989, 1457 01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:10,560 three years before the murder of Rachel Nickell 1458 01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:13,400 and also the murders of Samantha and Jazmine, 1459 01:26:13,480 --> 01:26:17,600 a serial rapist started attacking women, 1460 01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:19,520 some with children present, 1461 01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:22,440 on the Green Chain Walk pathway, 1462 01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:27,200 which runs through woodland and open common land in Southeast London, 1463 01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:32,440 which is also not far from the scene of the Bisset murders. 1464 01:26:36,440 --> 01:26:40,480 {\an8}DNA had identified one suspect for that series of rapes. 1465 01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:46,640 Two people who had seen the poster contacted the police and said, 1466 01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:49,040 "That artist's impression 1467 01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:51,600 looks remarkably like a guy called Robert Napper." 1468 01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:56,520 Two detectives investigating the Green Chain Walk rapes 1469 01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:59,320 went to his, uh, known address. 1470 01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:01,840 He appeared. They both spoke to him. 1471 01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:06,240 He was, uh, told that he had been identified as a possible suspect. 1472 01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:10,280 And he then was asked to come and voluntarily give blood, 1473 01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:11,720 which he agreed to do. 1474 01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:14,960 But he failed to attend the police station, 1475 01:27:15,560 --> 01:27:17,480 so they went back to his address. 1476 01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:19,640 He'd packed his bags and left. 1477 01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:22,120 He'd gone. 1478 01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:26,120 Subsequently, 1479 01:27:26,200 --> 01:27:29,160 on the grounds that he was taller 1480 01:27:29,240 --> 01:27:31,480 than the descriptions given by the rape victims, 1481 01:27:31,560 --> 01:27:32,800 the decision was made 1482 01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:36,320 by the senior investigating officer and his deputy 1483 01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:40,640 to exclude him as a suspect from that inquiry. 1484 01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:44,160 So basically nothing else was done. 1485 01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:48,400 Which baffles me to this day. 1486 01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:52,200 [music fades] 1487 01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:54,680 Had Napper attended the police station, 1488 01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:57,760 as he said he would do, and his blood sample taken, 1489 01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:02,640 he would have been then arrested for the Green Chain Walk rapes. 1490 01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:04,840 That didn't happen, which… 1491 01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:07,320 It had catastrophic consequences. 1492 01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:09,800 [poignant music playing] 1493 01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:12,680 [André] And then there was something in the dossier 1494 01:28:12,760 --> 01:28:15,920 that was, for me, even more devastating. 1495 01:28:17,560 --> 01:28:22,600 In September or October of 1989, and years before Rachel was killed, 1496 01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:25,680 Robert Napper's mother reported to the police 1497 01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:29,680 that he confessed that he'd raped a woman on Plumstead Common. 1498 01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:32,840 But the police didn't follow it up. 1499 01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:37,400 This was a fork in the road. 1500 01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:41,320 If the police had followed up on Robert Napper's mother's call 1501 01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:43,920 and taken a blood sample from him, 1502 01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:47,760 this could have prevented all of the attacks that followed. 1503 01:28:48,720 --> 01:28:51,320 The attack that Alex witnessed was preventable. 1504 01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:53,600 Rachel's death was preventable. 1505 01:28:55,640 --> 01:28:58,440 Samantha and Jazmine's deaths were preventable. 1506 01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:03,560 If they'd done their job properly, he would have been taken off the street. 1507 01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:08,240 [reporter 1] We watch today as one of the great unresolved murders 1508 01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:10,280 was finally resolved. 1509 01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:13,160 [reporter 2] Today, the killer of Rachel Nickell was found guilty 1510 01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:16,480 of stabbing her to death on Wimbledon Common 16 years ago. 1511 01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:18,480 [laughter and chatter on video] 1512 01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:20,480 Robert Napper was led out of the cells, 1513 01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:22,840 up into the dock of Court 1 here at the Old Bailey, 1514 01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:27,120 and there, gray-faced and balding, with Rachel Nickell's parents looking on, 1515 01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:29,880 he finally confessed to killing their daughter. 1516 01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:32,440 [Rachel laughs] André, I'm right up on your… 1517 01:29:33,360 --> 01:29:35,840 [Alex babbles] 1518 01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:38,440 [reporter 3] Today's confession brings to a close 1519 01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:42,320 one of the most damning episodes in Scotland Yard's history. 1520 01:29:43,160 --> 01:29:45,720 [reporter 4] They admitted they could have caught Napper earlier 1521 01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:47,120 and stopped him killing. 1522 01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:49,320 If the police had done things differently, 1523 01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:52,080 Rachel Nickell and Samantha and Jazmine Bisset 1524 01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:53,680 would not have lost their lives. 1525 01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:56,640 More could and should have been done. 1526 01:29:57,600 --> 01:29:58,880 Had more been done, 1527 01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:01,960 we would have been in a position to have prevented this 1528 01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:05,120 and other very serious attacks by Napper. 1529 01:30:05,200 --> 01:30:07,280 [music fades] 1530 01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:20,160 [birds singing] 1531 01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:23,680 [André] We all grew up with fairy tales. 1532 01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:29,080 We all grew up with that warning not to go into the woods. 1533 01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:32,440 The darkness, the monsters, the… the danger. 1534 01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:35,440 But it's not a fairy tale. 1535 01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:38,000 There is true evil in this world. 1536 01:30:39,360 --> 01:30:40,960 [soft, pensive music playing] 1537 01:30:43,480 --> 01:30:47,920 I was really forced to… to come to terms with that. 1538 01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:54,440 My greatest confusion was, uh… was why, you know? 1539 01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:57,440 You know, the anger with God that, uh… 1540 01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:01,120 that these kind of things can happen to good people 1541 01:31:01,200 --> 01:31:03,360 with absolutely no explanation. 1542 01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:08,080 And so I had a mission, 1543 01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:13,160 and, uh, that was to bring, you know, Rachel's child through this 1544 01:31:13,240 --> 01:31:14,880 in the best way possible. 1545 01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:21,440 [Alex] I think with people you live through difficulties together, 1546 01:31:21,960 --> 01:31:25,560 they either break you and they break the relationship 1547 01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:28,720 or they make the relationship that much stronger. 1548 01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:32,400 We were ultimately forced to find our own closure, 1549 01:31:32,480 --> 01:31:35,480 which I think is actually a good thing. 1550 01:31:35,560 --> 01:31:37,880 And that was ultimately the realization that, 1551 01:31:37,960 --> 01:31:40,920 you know, you have no choice but to make peace. 1552 01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:42,000 Make peace with it. 1553 01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:50,600 My parents believed in the infinity of the spirit. 1554 01:31:51,560 --> 01:31:56,000 That my mother would be with me always wherever I went. 1555 01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:05,600 My father sacrificed everything for me and for what he believed in, 1556 01:32:06,120 --> 01:32:09,400 without any guarantees of how it would turn out. 1557 01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:17,120 He was brave enough to… to do what he felt was right in his heart. 1558 01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:21,680 I'm forever indebted to him for that. 1559 01:32:25,560 --> 01:32:27,560 [music fades] 1560 01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:31,680 [soft, sorrowful music playing] 125794

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