Original subtitles

More than 90 percent of directing a picture

is the right casting.

♪

I've gotta thank Ellen Lewis for her casting,

and so much of this belongs to the cast.

Ellen is like the main collaborator.

There's no way I can make the film without working together.

There's an honesty and a trust there

as to what I need.

It's gonna be a good summer.

[laughing]

My job is to have a rapport and a creative rapport

with the director.

Try to create their vision.

♪

When I've directed, I've relied very much

on the casting director's input.

Amanda's always out there with the feelers

for new actors that I never even might've heard of.

I can't hear.

My job is to find the right people

to tell the story, to embody the story.

♪

Juliet I've had a chance to work with closely for years.

She's always looking and not settling.

You know, I'm quick to settle.

Casting directors are counted on to have

a point of view, to really participate

as sort of partners in the process.

♪

♪

♪

In the old studio days, casting was very different.

Casting directors were just sort of organizers.

They would just come in with long grocery lists of ideas

with no particular point of view.

My whole organization thinks I've gone a little nuts

to sign you.

Studios had actors under contract.

So they used their own contract players.

Doris Day was under contract.

Whether this part was right for her or not,

that's the way it was.

Casting directors didn't have agency or power.

It was not the way it is today at all.

♪

Marion Dougherty raised the stock of casting directors

in the film business.

She took an existing profession and made it her own.

There's so many things I picked up from Marion

that have been passed on from generation to generation.

Everything about what I do came from part

of that lineage.

I learned from Marion to trust my instincts.

That was just a great gift.

You can not separate the work of somebody

like Marion Dougherty from what the final outcome

of the film is.

It's just impossible.

♪

It's staggering to look down that resume

and just go film after film after film

that are seminal pieces of American culture.

She owned that position of casting she was in.

She set a standard

for a certain quality.

She had a very clear idea about things.

She was right about an awful lot of things

that people couldn't see.

She could see what people couldn't see.

You're humbled by someone who sees something in you

before you even see it in yourself.

♪

When people say, "How do you cast?"

I always tell them, "Gut reaction."

I just feel somebody is right for a part,

and it has...

fortunately worked out very well.

This was Christopher Plummer's first job in the United States.

This is "The Dashing White Sergeant."

There's Christopher.

And this is our friend Jimmy Dean

who was pretty relaxed in my office one day.

Most important for a casting director

is for them to love actors and be interested in them.

♪

In college, I got a taste for acting,

but I heard stories about how hard it was

to get a job acting.

So...

I didn't know what to do.

I decided to come to New York.

♪

I got a job designing windows for Bergdorf Goodman

until a friend of mine from college got a job

as the casting director on Kraft.

♪

He hired me as his assistant.

I knew nothing about casting at all

or anything about Kraft.

In the late '40s, TV was just getting started.

Mostly it was based in New York.

Kraft was one of the first, dramatic, live anthologies.

They were taking plays, and they were turning those

into hour-long dramas.

They could be done live.

They didn't need a lot of elaborate production.

After about four months, I took over casting the show.

♪

I went to the theater to find actors.

It was the beginning of the Off-Broadway

and the Off-Off-Off-Broadway.

The New York actors were trained actors

who had worked with the right teachers.

They were developing a new kind of acting

that stressed inner being, emotional truth.

I went under the GI Bill to the Neighborhood Playhouse.

Meisner only believed in the imagination.

I'd just wake up and just go on stage

with that I had from the day.

Marion Dougherty was finding great theater actors

used to creating characters as opposed to the star making

system that existed in Hollywood at that time.

♪

Hollywood had no idea what casting was all about.

They looked at the list, and they would pick

one from column A or column B

and seeing who had played a good doctor before,

so we'll have him play a doctor again.

The old Hollywood was always about typing.

You looked for type, because type was money.

Then they could use it in film after film.

♪

They used what people looked like physically

to define the characters.

They gave them a good looking over.

"Can we fix the nose?"

"Can we fix the teeth?"

Last on the list, "Can we teach them to act?"

♪

They were looking for movie stars,

movie stars, not actors.

I was under contract with Universal

for $75 a week.

Actually, you could buy things in those days for that.

I was there for a year and a half

and did a lot of bit parts.

My name is John Lucas.

For the last time, I don't want your mail service.

They had a little school that gave you dancing lessons,

elocution lessons, took photographs.

♪

I'd go to drama classes at night,

and you could ride horses.

That was the great part of it.

I had a dance teacher.

It was fun.

And then they gave you a report card.

Thinking back on it, it was kind of hysterical.

♪

There was always a distinction between

a New York actor and an actor out in LA.

If you went to New York, you were more serious about it,

and you wanted to do plays.

And those were the kind of actors Marion

would've been looking for and finding in those days

for live television.

Introducing Warren Beatty.

♪

Warren Beatty was 22 years old

when I put him in a Kraft show.

It was early on when the Actor's Studio

was very hot, and everybody was trying

to sound like Brando.

His agent called me up after and said,

"How did he do?"

I said, "Well..."

I tell ya, this morning, I'm just flying.

Roy Nicholas, [unintelligible].

Gee, I can imagine.

Pull her up, Mrs. Hardwick, we'll fill her up

compliments of the house.

I could understand about every third sentence.

Well, did you ever know anybody that

smelled this nice, [unintelligible].

I would say, "He should forget Brando and do

his own thing."

And I really thought they would tell me

that I shouldn't be a casting person anymore.

♪

We all were beginning to learn our craft at that time.

They had new writers and new directors.

Television really was the training ground.

It was a terrific pressure, because what went out

on the air was it.

It was like opening night of a play all the time.

See, you have to prepare the actors,

prepare the cameras.

Give me the wide shot, give me the wide shot!

Compose it, compose it!

Come into three!

That's beautiful.

I would be casting one show while the next show

was in rehearsal.

And I was always afraid that I might send

the actor to the wrong place.

It was a very exciting time.

And Marion gave a lot of very important actors

their first jobs.

I thought James Dean was very talented

and very right for this part.

And the first day of rehearsal,

the director called me, and he said,

"He was late and inattentive.

Get me somebody else."

And I said, "Oh, can I talk to him first?"

So, I had him come in that day.

Sat him down.

And I gave him my Dutch uncle talk.

I know I did something that was very wrong.

I know that.

And I'm not excusing myself for it.

I said, "I'll call the director and tell him not

to recast this part."

The next day, the director called me.

He said, "He was just fine.

And you're right, he's very talented."

It was the beginning of guiding people

towards the right actor for the job.

There were few doing what Marion did,

very few.

♪

This is Jimmy Dean's head.

And I really did get this many pictures.

That's Jack Lemmon to the left.

That's Anne Francis and Rod Steiger.

All of 'em got their Hollywood contracts

through being on a Kraft Television show.

In the eight years that I did Kraft,

I never got a credit.

And I did over 500 pictures, I guess.

There was never a word about casting.

♪

Marion Dougherty was responsible for bringing

a lot of wonderful New York actors

to the series.

It's better than being a passenger, Joey.

I am a passenger.

I was like a kid in a candy store.

I was so frightened, I nearly went out of my mind.

You had your choice of all these wonderful actors.

Jackie had the feeling first.

He's my kid brother, so I...

I dismissed it.

Because it was shot in New York

in real locations on the streets,

exactly the same aesthetic was applied

to the actors.

The looks didn't matter so much.

It was just about having that sort of spark

or that talent.

She was once a great woman.

She was gonna be in opera, and she used to take lessons.

And we used to go to her house and listen to her.

Robert Duvall was not handsome,

but he was attractive.

He could be a bad guy.

He could be a good guy.

Once upon a time...

there was a type.

Marion was aware of what actors could do,

their range.

Now, could we agree on that at least?

She would engage in casting against type.

Ah, you've only got to look at me, miss.

After all, I'm not growing any younger, you know.

She also cast for chemistry.

Abby.

What did you do this to me for, George?

I must say, in terms of bringing in actors,

I just say, thank you, Marion, thank you.

♪

When I would meet actors,

I would bring them in and talk to them.

I would ask them where they learned acting.

What their animals were.

If I thought they were right for a part,

then I would read them.

I would keep the three by five card.

I would put down anything that hit my mind.

I'd put down, "has eyes like Aunt Reba."

And I knew what that meant, because Aunt Reba

was very elegant and sort of snooty.

♪

"He was 6'2".

Saw him Off-Broadway."

My city editor told me distinctly that there was

a wall in there, something...

in between us.

"His reading was nothing.

But I believe he could be very good,

especially as a gentle, big, dumb, nice guy."

Marion understood that even if they give

a bad audition and maybe don't do well in a role,

you have to see their potential.

Well at one point, Marion said,

"I'll get you a job, Jon.

I'll get you a job."

Well this is...

I hadn't done anything very much in film,

so it'd have to be somebody who took a chance really.

Who would do a thing like that?

She had this "Naked City."

It wasn't a big role.

But I had a big emotional scene.

And by the time they came in for my close up,

I had nothin' left.

I was completely dry.

It don't make sense.

I didn't understand protection of your performance.

Didn't know how to do it.

Where were the police?

They're probably out taggin' some guy

who was five minutes over parked.

Come on.

It wasn't real.

It was forced.

He was pushing, and it wasn't there yet.

He was an actor in training.

I thought, "This is it.

It's the end of the road.

You know, I'm never gonna get another job."

I was so bad, I got almost physically sick watching it.

So, I sat down to write Marion Dougherty a letter

saying, "I'm sorry, Marion.

You believed in me, and I let you down

and all of this.

And please don't stop believing in...

in young people."

I felt this responsibility to a generation,

and not only just for myself.

I must've written several--six letters, maybe.

But I ripped them up, I couldn't send them.

♪

Dusty and I had a place.

He had the bottom floor, I had the top floor.

I told Marion about him.

I said, "This guy's got talent.

He's gonna be something."

Robert said he had been in theater for seven years,

but he'd never been in front of a camera.

So, Dustin came in one day, and I gave him

about three pages of the script.

You know, any guy that gets his jollies

out of wearing a cop uniform

needs a new head, if you ask me.

Get him outta here!

I said, "You have the job."

And he said, "Oh, well now, who do I have to see?"

And I said, "You don't have to see anybody."

After that, Marion came up to me

and she said, "In your off time,

maybe you'd like to become a casting director with me."

She offered me the chair, 'cause I brought her good people.

♪

Now, Marion had the two television series,

one in New York and another all over the country.

So, the logistics of casting these two shows

was incredible.

♪

Marion was in New York finding the actors.

She had control over that process.

Did anyone bring the Pacific to Balboa?

Never even laid a hand on her,

but she started running.

What do I care?

Go head and clobber him with an ax

if you feel like it.

I arrived in Boston, and the cast had been set.

I arrived in Baltimore, the cast had been set.

You know, you just don't look at a script

and all of a sudden an actor is there.

You have to start negotiating, find actors that will work

in the price range.

So, casting two shows was remarkable,

but delivering the kind of people to the set

that she did was sensational.

♪

Marion Dougherty understood what was happening here.

There was a vacuum, and she was filling it.

There was a job to be done, and she was doing it.

She took control and made herself the key player.

♪

[typewriter clicking

♪

The Director's Guild said you can not be called

casting director, 'cause you're not a director.

You can't use that word.

The reality is, you're not a director,

and we take exception to being called directors.

You're a casting person.

You're casting by, but I do not call them directors,

'cause they're not.

[phone ringing]

I'll be right down.

The director was always the person that led

a collaboration of talents.

In the beginning, nobody was giving

any respect to this process,

and so, the directors got together and said,

"We need to form a guild to protect everybody."

They were basically saying there's one director

on the set.

The director of photography's not a director.

He's a cinematographer.

The casting director is not a director.

They're working in conjunction with a director.

That fight happened, and you still called

the DP the DP.

Although, I don't accept that.

They're not directing anything.

I believe that a director has the creative vision,

and that if you wanna share that title

with someone else, they should be running the set.

Those other people don't.

♪

In the 1950s, the studios were beginning

to undergo their ultimate collapse.

♪

They were dropping all the contract players,

myself included.

It changed the whole...

dynamic of the business.

Now, the casting director wasn't provided by the studio,

so there was suddenly an opening there

for a profession.

♪

In the mid-50s, I decided to open

my own independent casting office.

I would spend the days just meeting new actors,

all of these great talents.

♪

Like Marion Dougherty in New York,

I was casting hit shows.

Gunsmoke!

They were the number one and two shows in television.

I was really turned on by

bringing a fresh look to characters.

[phone ringing]

One day, the phone rings.

"Mr. Stalmaster, I'm calling for Mr. Robert Wise."

Mr. Robert Wise.

Rosebud.

He edited "Citizen Kane."

He's one of the great directors in Hollywood.

He says, "How would you feel about casting

a film where you'd show me actors who looked like

the actual characters in the true life story

of Barbara Graham?"

And I said, "Oh, that'd be a dream."

He says, "Let's do it!"

♪

Susan Hayward was already cast.

But everyone else were all new faces to film.

I'd like to spread you out and stamp you into the ground.

So, it had a verisimilitude.

The truth that he wanted to achieve,

it was powerful.

Now, that opened the door to United Artists,

and from there, I bounced from one

Academy Award director to the next.

All right, now, steady.

♪

We all liked to work with United Artists

simply because they left us alone.

That's your new arrival?

What is it, a boy or a girl?

You're not goin' out there.

Well, to look it, I'm not.

United Artists funded independent filmmakers.

They had total control of the movie,

had final cut of the movie

as long as they stayed within the budget

and didn't change the content of the material.

And it enabled us to attract, you know,

the best filmmakers.

♪

"The World of Henry Orient" was submitted to us

by George Roy Hill.

As always, Marion Dougherty

was the casting director on George Roy Hill movies.

It represented the kind of independent,

creative filmmaking that Marion was very much a part of.

♪

By that time, television went west.

♪

Then I went straight into film,

and I ain't never been back.

♪

For the movie "Hawaii," Marion spent

a year in Asia casting it.

And the lengths she went to to get that right

was really kind of extraordinary.

♪

George Roy Hill was directing the picture,

and he wanted true Polynesians.

It is blessed, everyone, we serve God.

I went to all the islands, Tahiti and Tonga.

I was living in Hawaii.

Marion and George Roy Hill came to the community theater.

A bunch of us were asked to go sign up for it,

and so we did, and we were very young.

I think I must've been about 18 or 19,

somethin' like that.

I said, "Bette, you're not very Polynesian.

And there aren't any parts left

except for the missionaries."

It was open auditions.

And I think my girlfriend and I sang a song for them,

and I think they kinda perked up.

And I said, "If you'll wear a bonnet so that it sort of

covers your face, and you don't look too Jewish in it,

which would not be right for one of the missionaries,

I think we can do it."

♪

I will bring evil on these people,

because they have not harkened unto to my words

nor my law.

It was a huge show.

Julie Andrews was there.

Max von Sydow, and I met Gene Hackman.

It was hard work.

They were shooting way, way, way out

in the middle of nowhere.

And, you know, I was very poor.

So, we were living hand to mouth,

we hardly ate anything, just so we could save our money

so that we could make the big break,

and we could get off the rock,

and we could go to New York City.

But, it was not easy.

♪

They had the premiere.

And George and I were walking the red carpet.

All of a sudden, this girl took me

by the sleeve and said, "I'm in New York!

What you paid me for the movie

is how I had enough money to come to New York!"

If it hadn't been for that job,

I don't think I would've made it.

I have Marion Dougherty to thank for that.

And it was...

I never forgot her.

♪

I found a brownstone on East 30th Street.

It was a total wreck.

We redid the whole house and had it just charming.

I remember how proud she was of it

and how sweet it was.

It was interesting, because it was a house.

It was a home, I should say.

It was a warmer feeling, because it was that setup.

In 1968, I got a job

as Marion's assistant.

She only would hire women.

It's a nurturing element.

We're there, in a way, to serve, often a man.

I mean, I'm kidding around a little bit,

but we're really there to help somebody else's vision,

to make it right.

Marion was very generous spirited to the girls

that worked for her.

We were all young.

She gave me the responsibility to cast.

She did not have an ego like that.

She ran this townhouse in such a gracious way

that we often used to liken it to a brothel.

♪

It was beyond belief what was going on in that house.

It was this vortex of the movie business.

It was a charming place to do casting,

a far cry from the casting we would do

in offices prior to that.

Marion had bedrooms upstairs that she

would lease out.

There was some would-be screenwriter.

He was living in my office

on a couch that pulled out as a bed at night.

He'd leave his bike right in this narrow hallway

which drove me insane.

He turned out to be Steve Tesich,

and he was writing his first screenplay,

"Breaking Away," which won an Oscar.

And we had Tom Spratley who was an ancient

character actor living in the furnace room.

There was a cat that Marty Scorsese

was allergic to.

It didn't bother me too much.

I got--I had very bad asthma at the time.

There was a manager downstairs in the basement

who had these whacky clients, Carol Kane,

Christopher Walken, Sissy Spacek, Diane Keaton,

and they were all kinda floating around the house.

I mean, it was madness.

But the directors loved it.

Marion got all the phone calls.

There would always be a little article or two

about films that were going to shoot in New York.

And usually we would get that, "I'm sorry.

Marion Dougherty's casting the movie."

This woman was the goddess of casting.

A little contribute, no.

A big contribute, yes.

I only knew I wasn't white.

And you wouldn't let me be black.

America, man, you know, it's so beautiful.

I wanna eat it.

The patient in the holding room, you want his Blue Cross number,

you go in, and you get his Blue Cross number.

Marion was extremely instrumental in creating

what they called the New York look of movies.

She would use actors that had a very kind of

a bold look or personality.

I'm Mr. Mansfield, your father.

Now, where's he at?

A very distinctive, off-beat thing that would

give you a sense of the location.

Let me have a double on an onion roll,

half brisket, half pastrami, pickles, sour tomatoes,

no sauerkraut, my stomach's acting up today.

I began to notice Marion Dougherty's

beautifully cast films.

She introduced so many New York actors to film.

Many of them, I was able to bring and do

a film here in California.

For God's sake, can you imagine my parents?

Can you imagine what they would say if they

just saw us here in this room right now?

Originally, for the role of Benjamin,

we brought in all the young actors who met

the description in the book.

They're thinking for this lead they might

like really good-looking, conventional

sort of movie star types.

We imagined everybody big and blonde.

You tested Redford and Candy Bergen.

God, you noticed they were beautiful.

It was more blonde than a human should

ordinarily be asked to accept.

But, nothing worked.

Mike wasn't happy.

I wasn't happy.

So I experimented.

Fortunately I matured with my neuroses intact.

That's what makes me so fascinating.

I was supposed to see Nichols the next day,

But then I heard, "Mike can't see you tomorrow

because he's flying to New York

to meet an actor named Dustin Hoffman."

Oh no.

I said to Nichols, "I did not think I was right for the role."

He's kind of Anglo-Saxon,

tall, slender, good looking chap.

And he said, "And you're Jewish."

And I said, "That's right."

Short and Jewish.

He says, "Well, inside Benjamin Braddock

is short and Jewish."

I warned you about that.

I'm 29 years old.

I came here at the age of 21 with great hope.

Mike said, "Dustin has a sweetness...

that I want in the character."

He knew to not get locked in

to what is written on the page.

You have to be open-minded

and not...thinking in a stereotype,

but what will be honest

in this character?

Dustin is a different kind of leading man.

♪

Everything was shifting in American culture.

Finally, the studio system,

with all its glamour

had really collapsed and it was gone.

People wanted something different.

♪

I remember watching "The Graduate" thinking,

"How did all of this come together?"

Mostly watching the actors.

-Shall I get the cops? -What?

I'll get the cops.

My wife and I are getting divorced soon.

Yes, I mean you.

[hysterical laughing]

I don't believe it.

It is chock full of interesting actors.

Plastics.

After "The Graduate",

everybody knew Lynn Stalmaster's name.

And he was sort of famous after that.

♪

There was my name

in the main title on a separate card.

"Casting by Lynn Stalmaster"

It was just one of the most moving moments of my life.

Well, you deserved a separate card.

Well that appreciation, though, is--

Well, you contributed so much.

♪

You start to see "Casting by" as a credit.

It was suddenly a creative role

that needed to be recognized and acknowledged.

Every well-known casting director said,

"Well, I should get one too."

I don't know how many people got that

but everybody wanted it.

Listen, I don't mean to be a sore loser

but, uh, when it's done, if I'm dead, kill him.

Love to.

Marion and George Roy Hill had me up

for "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid"

and because I'd done a comedy on Broadway,

they had me up for Butch Cassidy.

And Paul Newman was gonna play Sundance Kid.

♪

I met George and we were sitting there talking.

I said, "I would like to do that

but the part I feel closest to is the Sundance Kid."

He said, "Really?"

George and I talked and I said,

"That would work okay for Redford to play that part."

And he said, "Fine."

He called Newman and Newman said, "All right."

Just one clear shot, that's all I want.

-Come on, we got to. -No, get away from me.

-Why? -I want to fight him.

I will always be indebted to her

for a chance to break into another kind of role.

♪

Bob is a tremendous acting talent.

He's also a very independent, hard-nosed mick

who goes pretty much his own way.

These were qualities that worked very well for Sundance,

including a genuine warmth under a very cool exterior.

♪

[car horn beeping]

I'm walking here!

I'm walking here!

"Midnight Cowboy" was very difficult to cast

because of the contrast of the two lead characters.

You had Joe Buck.

Where's that Joe Buck?

This tall, lanky rural-type character.

Hey, come on.

And then Ratso Rizzo,

this skid row bum who limped when he walked.

Action!

The director, John Schlesinger,

was a distinguished filmmaker from England,

so he lacked the knowledge of all the actors

who were available here.

He hadn't seen their work.

So Marion's role as the casting director,

was even more important than usual.

Marion took an incredibly proactive role.

She said, "Don't expect me

to bring in ten actors for every part.

I'll, maybe, bring in two or three.

And each of them might be very different from each other.

They'll each be a different way to play the part.

Will each bring a different dimension to the role."

♪

I said to the producer, "See a play named 'Eh'

because there's your Ratso Rizzo."

I went downtown and there was this young guy

kind of hunched, stooped posture.

I thought, "My God, he looks so much like Ratso Rizzo."

♪

Dustin was very interested in the part.

But then "The Graduate" came out.

And my agent said, "Well, you can't take that part.

Not only is he unattractive--"

She was telling me

I could be the next Jewish Cary Grant,

I think, was the way she put it.

At any rate, I said, "I want that part

if I could at least try for it."

♪

One day I see this guy walking up the road

and it's this fellow who I knew from the Shakespeare Festival.

I said, "Hey, Keal, how ya doin'?"

He said, "I'm up for a big part:

Joe Buck in the 'Midnight Cowboy'."

I said, "Who's casting it?"

He said, "Marion Dougherty out of New York."

Who would do a thing like that?

I said, "Marion Dougherty's casting, huh?"

♪

So I called my agent up and I said,

"Could you call Marion Dougherty

and tell her I'm on my way to New York

and I'd like to see her?"

I don't know what Marion's response is gonna be

because the last time she did something for me

it was a disaster.

I'm driving in from the airport,

praying, "Just let her see me."

I walk in the office

and we almost bump right into each other.

"Marion!"

You know, I said, "Marion, before you say anything."

I said, "I--listen,

I'm so sorry for what happened with that 'Naked City.'

It was so terrible."

"Jon," she stops me; she says, "that's the past.

How would you like to meet John Schlesinger?

That was it.

Schlesinger and I weren't considering Jon Voight.

In fact, we had arranged to test six other actors.

Where are you going?

Including Michael Sarrazin.

What do you mean?

Well, I mean, a person like you, with your average,

your leadership abilities.

When I heard about Michael Sarrazin,

I thought, "That's wrong."

And I think that would, sort of, ruin it.

Marion Dougherty kept insisting

and pushing Jon Voight's name in front of us.

So John and I felt, well,

we've gotta test this guy.

We did this improvisation

and I'm nervous, of course.

What makes you think you got something

that you can sell to women?

You don't know what--

that's what I-- that's what I got.

That's what I got on you.

Afterward they said, "Well, what do you think?"

And everybody said,

"Oh, of course, it's Michael Sarrazin."

I was so upset.

Then the studio

that Sarrazin was contracted to

would not allow him

two weeks' rehearsal.

It caused Schlesinger and I to go back

and look at the tests again.

They were watching my screen test with Michael Sarrazin

over and over and over again.

Schlesinger said, "Marion, what do you think?"

I said, "John, you know what I think."

♪

And Marion Dougherty says,

"Jon Voight."

And that was it.

I was completely unknown to the film world

and Marion, who had chosen me

for another role and I'd failed,

well, she had a lot of guts.

I'm Joe Buck from Texas.

Enrico Rizzo from the Bronx.

And I'm gonna buy you a drink, what the hell you think of that.

Don't mind if I do.

♪

Jon Voight's performance is totally real,

totally believable.

He just hit all the bases.

Marion's recommendations

were tremendously important in the film.

Why don't you and me

get right down on our knees right now?

No, no.

No, don't take my watch.

Please don't take it.

You think you can come up here

and pull this kinda crap up here?

It was Marion's castings

and Schlesinger's brilliant direction

that added up to the film.

♪

The fact that I did not get a casting credit

is probably the worst thing

that's happened to me in my career.

The first time I saw the picture,

my credit was on a card

with my assistant's.

I said to Jerome, you have to change it.

Marion said she wanted

a one card 100 percent credit

for herself and nobody else on it.

And I said, "Well, I didn't think that was right."

I said, "Well, then if you can't change it,

I think you should take my name off."

And, uh, he did.

I fully expected that one day she'd come back

when she'd cooled down a little,

and talk to me more reasonably.

Because, on reflection, I must say it was clear

that if ever a casting director

earned a single card credit,

she had on "Midnight Cowboy"

and I've regretted for 45 years

that I hadn't given it to her.

♪

♪

Marion was very specific about the way

she saw characters in casting.

There's a lot of sort-ofs and maybes

and yeah, they could possiblys,

but there's very few yeah absolutelys.

And I think Marion

was always looking for that.

Marion used to say that every actor

has one quality to bring to the screen.

♪ Don't you let me be young

♪ That's what I am

I went to the public theater.

♪

That's where I saw Diane Lane.

♪

When I met Marion, she'd look at you.

And you knew that she was seeing something

that you didn't see about yourself.

I went back to George and I said,

"I saw somebody that I think you'll love."

You in love?

You don't fall in love with a boy you just met.

My essential essence that Marion saw

was that I had a good amount of innocence.

A good amount.

♪

With some actors you sense an intangible quality.

You cannot explain it.

You just feel there's something special,

there's something magical here.

It doesn't come along every day.

When I arrived in L.A. at 18 years old,

I knew that Lynn Stalmaster

was a very important casting director.

So I was hoping he liked me.

♪

I was casting "The Last Detail",

so I brought John in to read.

I said, "Oh my gosh,

this is such a significant movie.

Hal Ashby, one of the greatest directors,

with the hottest actor that had hit Hollywood in years,

Jack Nicholson.

What am I gonna do if I actually get this?"

♪

We did some reading

and we did some improvisation.

They brought me back and Lynn fought

and pushed the limit as far as he could.

I kept on getting reports.

It looks like it's gonna happen.

And then along came Randy Quaid.

He was kind of big and out of step.

And I was portraying that,

but it wasn't my essence.

Lynn pulls me in with Hal Ashby.

He said, "Now look, there's no doubt

that you would just be phenomenal on this.

But we have this other boy that came along

and he kind of is the part.

But we don't want you to leave

without knowing how great you did."

I was broken-hearted.

Devastated.

Every actor

can be rejected at some point.

I would encourage them,

because they probably have reservations,

"Can I do film, am I ready?"

The pressure is staggering.

♪

I wasn't sure if I wanted to be an actor.

My father was so gung ho

about all his kids going into show biz,

he loved it so much.

But, like a lot of kids, they don't want to do

what their parents want them to do.

I have a long history with Jeff's family.

I've known his father Lloyd

and his brother Beau,

who also is an exceptionally fine actor.

Lynn cast me in my first film,

"Halls of Anger"

and it was the antithesis of what I was expecting.

I've had it.

-You won't graduate! -I don't care!

-Then what? -I don't care, I tell ya!

No, you listen to me.

I had the climactic scene with Calvin Lockhart,

and I had just been through

a terrible love affair in my real life

and I was able to, kind of, tap into all that emotion

from this heartache I was going through

and make it work for the story.

♪ Trying to touch your hand

Cut to the premiere of the show.

My brother's on one side of me

and my father's on the other side.

I said, "Wait'll you guys see this scene."

I've had it.

-You won't graduate! -I don't care!

And here comes the scene.

No, you listen to me.

You've never understood why so many black kids give up.

You must stick with it.

And you've only had a taste of what they've had

to live through all their lives.

And I was like, "Cut to me, guys."

Maybe now you understand why they're so full of anger.

And it stays on Calvin.

You can hear me sobbing a little bit,

but you don't see me.

Sure, they're not gonna throw their arms around you.

Finally, they cut to me and my face.

All they saw--

[sobbing]

I guess, and the entire crowd burst out laughing.

And I just about had a bowel movement, man.

♪

And I didn't feel like making a movie,

maybe, ever again.

You don't often get second chances.

But I would go strictly with instincts,

and feelings I had about the actor.

And Jeff has an innate sense of truth

which is the important thing.

So I thought I should consider him for another role

with a host of great film actors.

♪

I thought to myself, "Do this part.

This'll be the nail in the coffin of my acting career

and I can move on to other things."

So I went in it with a, kind of, reluctance.

I'm sorry for riding you.

But you get my goat when you act as if

you didn't care a damn what happened to me.

And you keep your door locked

so I can't talk to ya.

It was a big crossroads for me.

I had such a wonderful experience

working on that film.

I was hanging out eight weeks

and just learning from these old masters.

And that was a turning point for me.

So thank you, Lynn.

♪

As soon as I didn't get the part in "Last Detail",

I wanted to go back to New York and do theater.

And Lynn begged me not to go.

My manager told Lynn,

"He wants to stay but he can't afford to stay."

Lynn said, "Give me a few days."

So Lynn calls his ex-wife Lea Stalmaster.

And Lea is casting this awful movie

called "The Devil's Rain".

Lea gives me the opportunity

to be in "The Devil's Rain".

You, my brethren, found the book.

You may now bring down the vessel.

That subsidizes me long enough

for Lynn to get another idea.

I was engaged to cast the pilot.

♪ Welcome back

And the lights went on.

He said the part

would be a good segue into movies.

And to not be afraid of it because it's television.

All right, who are you?

I'm Barbarini.

Eddie Barbarini.

This is my place.

And these are my people.

Lynn said, "I'm really pushing for you."

He had to get a lot of approvals

from three very powerful people.

Vinnie Barbarino.

This is my place.

And these, these are my people.

And he won.

♪

When John was finally cast,

it fulfilled all my creative juices.

Lynn's support gave me the confidence

where I wasn't afraid to play anything.

♪ Dancin', yeah

♪ Dancin', yeah

Actors need confidence

that somebody out there, in the know, wants to help you.

What's better than that in this kind of world,

in this business?

It's known as one of my favorite words, which is encouragement.

And Marion Dougherty was full of it.

I've never seen anything like it.

I went down in the Village to see a play.

♪

And that's where I saw Al Pacino.

He was so good,

the hair on the back of neck rose up.

♪

This has happened to me,

maybe, three or four times in my life.

♪

I knew then

this was somebody very special.

The first thing Marion cast Al Pacino in was "Me, Natalie",

which he had one scene.

He had to dance with Patty Duke.

And I remember him practicing his line in the waiting room.

"Wanna dance?"

"Do you wanna dance?"

"Do you wanna dance?"

"Do you wanna dance?"

Marion was always trying to get me in everything.

She understood actor's plight.

It was, in a sense, the step up to step into another world,

the step up into commerce, really.

An actual job that paid you money.

You know, you could actually eat.

Pay your rent.

♪

I know a guy down the hall.

In one of the rooms.

And he told me.

He said, "There's this terrific looking chick in room 424."

So I thought I'd come in and take a look.

My agent gave me the script.

When I read it,

thinking of Al as the character,

I thought he's perfect for this film.

But when we finally went and made a deal with Fox,

they didn't want Pacino.

That was disastrous for me.

♪

Marion was really, sort of, hell bent

on Al getting that part.

We got together and decided let's put on a charade.

Let's go through casting and then at the end

we tell 'em, "Well, Pacino's got to be the one."

We interviewed some really great actors.

One of 'em being Robert De Niro.

I felt he was doing a beautiful job,

but I had my mind set on Pacino.

Ah, I'm the greatest.

Fox finally said, "Okay."

♪

Marion would say casting is a painful process

for a lot of actors and directors.

So she made it the best possible experience for them.

I don't like casting, it's always uncomfortable.

I don't like to meet people in any area.

♪

Marion introduced me

to all those people on "Bananas".

She would say hello to the actors to put them at ease.

While I was writhing

in the background.

Woody would sit in a rocking chair in the corner

and really actually never speak.

He was, like, painfully shy.

Actors come in.

They're either formidable stars I'm in awe of

and I don't wanna make a fool of myself in front of,

or there's six people

that could all do the job just as well

and I have to pick one of them and I feel bad about it.

I'm not suited to this job.

I never had to shake any hands or tell any lies.

Not to mention the Purell bill, you know.

You talkin' to me?

I remember the very, very civilized way

of meeting an actor, talking to him or her.

We are the people is not the same as we are the people.

The actor is being brought in the room

in such a way that you feel comfortable.

God, it's good so close.

Because the audition process is so disturbing.

-Hi, Jacy. -Hi.

I'm glad you could make it.

For "The Last Picture Show",

Peter Bogdanovich wanted to make sure

that Cybill Shepherd looked good in a bathing suit.

She was a "Seventeen" model and she was absolutely gorgeous.

But she had that, kind of, wonderful rosy

slightly plumpish quality to her.

So it was like a question mark

about how great she was gonna look at the swimming pool

in "The Last Picture Show".

We had to check that Cybill didn't have all the scars on her

because she'd have to take off her clothes

in one scene.

Marion brought her over to the hotel.

I was at the Essex House.

Cybill came in.

She's very tall, big girl.

And Marion checked her out.

You gotta get undressed up there on the diving board.

Marion said, "I'm embarrassed to ask you to do this,

but can you possibly wear a bikini?"

That's the rule.

Yeah, I did it last Easter.

Mm-kay?

She said, "I'm sorry, they just wanna make sure

that you didn't have any unsightly scars."

♪

She seemed to poke fun at what she was doing.

"Isn't this silly we have to do this?

It's ridiculous, I told 'em you're beautiful."

She was so kind.

There was a kind of a gruffness to her.

She wasn't gonna lie to you.

Yeah!

♪

Marion was tough to get in.

She had this sepulcher, a majestic dynasty that was,

like, you know, Fort Knox trying to get in there.

And I said, "What am I gonna-- how'm I gonna get in there?"

♪

I was doing a show.

I was supposed to be, like, a security guy,

but I looked like a New York City postman.

So I sent a certified letter to myself.

And then when I got it with all the certified stamps on it,

when I got it, I covered my name over

with Marion Dougherty's name.

♪

Delivery.

So a crack opens up.

Are you Marion Dougherty?

"No, no, she's back--"

I said, "She's gotta sign for this."

"Oh, oh come on in."

I walk in and say, "Jesus, I'm in."

Finally she gets off the phone.

I said, "Marion, I'm not a postman, I'm an actor.

I'm trying to get in to see you."

She says, "I don't believe you.

I'm very busy here, you know,

you can't just come in.

But you know what, that was very inventive of you.

I'm gonna remember you."

♪

Actors were not freaks to her, they were people.

Marion got behind their eyes

and saw what made them tick and who they were

and would use that personal quality on a role,

which would make the role pop.

-What's your name? -Tom.

Mine's Audrey.

It's really not, it's Doris,

but I like Audrey better.

Mr. Hart,

that is the most intelligent thing you've said today.

Do me a favor.

Please don't call me "man."

What did you tell Wilson, Tom?

Wilson?

Fabulous, fantastic Mary Beth McIllhenny

the "It Girl" of the skies!

[bell tolling]

"Willy Wonka," my idea was to make it

so that you wouldn't know anybody very well.

I didn't want it to be a star turn.

So I really had to depend on Marion.

One day she sent over Gene Wilder.

Gene had done "The Producers"

and had a small part in "Bonnie & Clyde".

I'm from Wisconsin originally.

Where the cheese comes from.

But he still wasn't a star.

He read from the script.

Very please, we have so much time and so little to see.

Wait a minute.

Strike that.

Reverse it, thank you.

I said, "You've got the part."

Then a woman walked in to play

the mother of Mike Teevee.

I said to myself, as soon as she read a few lines,

"She's got it.

She's got 'it'

and I must have her."

She said, "I've got to think about it."

Well, why do you wanna think about it?

This is a feature.

The next day she said, "I'm sorry.

I'm gonna turn down the picture.

I've got an offer for a television series."

♪ Boy, the way Glenn Miller played ♪

♪ Songs that made the Hit Parade ♪

Her name was Jean Stapleton.

She was right.

She took the series and good for her.

We cast "All In The Family"

out of Marion Dougherty's offices.

Marion had brought Jean Stapleton

in for the first time for an audition

for "Cold Turkey".

It's my sixth slice of salami, sixth slice!

I just fell in love with her.

So in "All In The Family", I knew I wanted her.

You know what I think we oughta do?

What do you think?

I think we oughta eat.

It was Marion Dougherty who said,

"You gotta talk to Carroll O'Connor."

If your blacks and your spics

want their rightful share of the American dream,

let 'em get out there and hustle for it just like I did.

Carroll O'Connor read three lines

and that was it.

Casting is a high art

when you run into a Marion Dougherty.

All we need is a couple of days

and we can get the son of a bitch and nail him.

For "The Sting", I didn't have to bring anybody

but one person in for each part.

Name's Lonnegan, Doyle Lonnegan.

Lieutenant Snyder, Punko.

We got some business coming in before hours.

That's the ultimate experience of a casting director

who is so equipped

in their knowledge of actors

and their understanding of the material

that they're able to make a single choice

and have it completely succeed.

♪

"The Sting" did very, very well.

It got nominated for seven, I think, Academy Awards.

It won Best Director, as well as Best Picture.

♪

When George won the Oscar,

he said, "How could I miss?

I had Newman.

I had--I had Redford.

I had Dougherty."

I thought that's wonderful.

I've never heard of a casting person being mentioned.

♪

Marion taught me the importance of not just the movie stars,

but every single person that speaks in the film.

If a little tiny part doesn't come across as believable,

it ruins the whole frame of the film for me,

the tone of the film.

♪

When I cast "Deliverance",

John Boorman said to me,

"I want you to look for an albino boy

for the scene with the dueling banjo."

And when I arrived in Clayton, Georgia,

the man assisting me down there,

he kind of owned the town, little town,

he took me over to the schoolroom

and I looked in the window

and sitting there was a kid.

He had a very odd look and manner.

It seemed to belong in the environment of the film.

I ran out to the phone and I called John Boorman

and I said, "I have found the answer, I believe."

He said, "Lynn, is he an albino?"

And I said, "Well, no--"

"No, I told you I wanted an albino.

I want you to keep looking."

♪

I remember the day that Billy Joe Redden came in.

Nearly all of us were saying, "This is the kid,

I mean, it has to be."

[strumming]

Finally, John said, "All right, let's go with that boy."

Talk about genetic deficiencies. That pitiful?

He couldn't speak very well.

He had a kind of strange dyslexia.

When he tried to talk, he--

[stuttering gibberish]

John said, "I think we're not gonna be able to use Billy.

I can't really connect with him."

I begged John, I said,

"Let me spend some time with Billy."

♪

At first, we'd spend the afternoon

of him looking off in the woods

and he sort of--

But I sort of remember the day he was telling me

about these kids.

He said, "They all call me Squinty Eyes."

Said, "Next son of a bitch calls me Squinty Eyes,

I'm gonna kill that son of a bitch."

He put his arm around me and he said,

"Except you, Ronny, you can call me Squinty Eyes

if you want to," said, "I like you good."

♪

From then on, we were like best buddies.

It was so...

[sighs]

♪

That scene is one of the most exciting scenes

I've ever seen on film.

God damn, I could play all day with that guy.

♪

Marion said, "Well, don't tell anybody,

but I'm moving to California,"

which was surprising to me

because she was such a New York, salty, salty dame.

I was having troubles at home.

I thought it was a good time

to have a vacation from my husband.

As a matter of fact, I wanted a divorce.

♪

We made an arrangement that I would stay in the brownstone

and I would continue to cast.

Woody said, "What am I gonna do?"

And I said, "Well, you'll hire Juliet."

I have this sudden impulse to turn the wheel quickly,

head on into the oncoming car.

Marion put me with Juliet

and we looked up three pictures later, five pictures later,

and we had a strong relationship--

And then we look up 40 pictures later, you know,

and been doing it for years, decades.

♪

♪

The ability to have Marion at the studio

as part of a creative team was an asset

that was very valuable to the studio

and I think the filmmakers who worked with her

felt that way too.

Magazine or a book?

Where's English? What'd they do?

Give a nigger a nigger of his own?

I knew of Marion by reputation.

She was so much fun, kind of a special character

in her own way.

She'd talk about the new set of suits upstairs

and she'd, "Eh, those junior G-Men upstairs,

you know, they think they know everything."

♪

Eisner came in as president of Paramount.

Marion wasn't as simpatico with Eisner.

Michael Eisner and I didn't see eye to eye.

When Marion would recommend somebody

like Meryl Streep to him, he would dismiss it.

He would say, "We've got to get something for Suzanne Somers."

And I'd say, "Why?

I don't think-- she's not a good--no!"

He didn't like that.

And then, somebody told me,

"Eisner, I think, is gonna fire you."

I said, "Oh really?"

Well, just after somebody asked me

if I would like to meet with the Warner Brothers people,

and they wanted me,

then I got called up to Eisner's office.

He got down on the floor, took my hands and said,

"Please don't leave us."

Well, I knew as soon as I said no to Warner Brothers,

he would fire me.

So, I left.

♪

Marion's taste was impeccable.

I love the fact that she was no pushover.

She always had opinions,

and I must say, almost all of the time,

her opinions were spot-on.

Mr. Holm, you have a daughter, I have a son.

He's a fine boy, he's a good wrestler--

He's also full of lust.

I can spot it a mile away.

He's lusting after your daughter.

Marion Dougherty is the reason

why I was cast in my first movie.

♪

I had only done theatre.

George Roy Hill and I went to see "Barnum."

Up in the box overlooking the stage

there was this woman.

I was so impressed how quiet she was up there

in that box.

I would come out about 15 minutes before the play started

and I would knit in that box.

I was working really hard to give this woman

three dimensions and have her sexy.

I worked my ass off in that part.

I said, "Why don't we read her for Jenny Fields,

the mother of Garp?"

Yes, what is it you want?

What the hell did that bastard son of yours

do to my dog?

Garp bit Bonkie.

I think they had said it was like

a young Katharine Hepburn type.

I went in to the audition and I was doing

a very bad Katharine Hepburn.

And George told me later that it was

one of the worst auditions he'd ever seen.

She gave a terrible reading

but there was something about her

which was quite wonderful.

I wonder if George would have cast me

without Marion whispering in his ear.

♪

I got a call from my agent saying,

"They're making a film of 'World According to Garp'

and George Roy Hill wants to see you."

I thought, "Great, but for what?"

My agent's assistant said,

"Well, I don't know which role, there's a typo.

It's for a character named Roberta."

And I thought, "Oh my God!"

and I immediately saw it.

I immediately saw it.

He's young, he's handsome.

Such a brilliant idea of Marion's,

because here's this big, hulking guy

but he does have this gentle sort of high timbered voice

for a guy of his size.

I was a tight end with the Philadelphia Eagles.

Number 90, Robert Muldoon.

I went in to meet George.

He ruled me out absolutely.

because I was 6'4".

He thought me standing next to Robin

would be absurd.

Marion knew it would take months to persuade him.

Literally eight months later, they came back to me,

and three other actors,

and one by one we did a screen test.

By some quark of fate,

I had read a book called Conundrumabout a year before

by Jan Morris, the transsexual.

So George asked me these questions,

and I answered in the character of Roberta.

Deeply informed about this, you know, he was floored!

And Marion was off in the corner, thinking,

"These fucking New York actors, they are so smart."

[laughing]

Forty-three, twenty-nine!

The best moment of all,

George wanted to be persuasive

that I had been a football player.

He had me take a hike, fade back,

and deliver a pass in full drag.

He caught it, and I leaped up and down like this.

[laughing]

My name's Roberta.

I'm Garp.

Marion described George turning around

and looking at her like, "You were right all along."

♪

Marion's judgment is present in the 500 movies that we made

during the time that I helped run Warner Brothers.

When she said, "I love this person for that part,"

I often just listened to Marion,

and just went down the track.

Gun, gun!

♪

I had never done an action film,

and when I read "Lethal Weapon" for the first time,

it seemed I had a reason to make one of them

because there were great characters.

Marion Dougherty said, "What about Mel for this guy, Riggs?"

I said, "Oh, fantastic."

♪

It was about '86.

I was in Australia, and I was on the farm.

I had been in like three films in rapid succession.

Good films, but they didn't actually break through.

They weren't sort of poppy enough.

They were a little off.

I thought, "You know what, I'm gonna walk away from this game."

So I just decided to drop out,

and raise organic vegetables and beef cattle.

Dear Marion got Mel on the phone,

and she arranged to get the script to him.

I read the script.

It had your archetypal, two-dimensional hero.

But this one was different

because the script admitted to the man's insanity.

He was flawed, really flawed, he was suicidal.

He was, and I thought, "Oh, that's interesting."

So I came over and took the gig.

♪

I said, "Oh, fantastic."

And I said, "What about Murtaugh?"

And Marion said, "Did you see 'Color Purple'?"

I done fixed that mailbox so I can tell if it be mess with,

you understand!

She said, "What about Danny Glover for Murtaugh?"

And my reaction was, "But he's black."

Not funny, pretty friggin' frightening.

It wasn't written, "a black character plays this role."

Marion looked at me, she said, "He's black, so what?"

I shrank.

Marion thought, "Danny Glover is a sensational actor,

this a good opportunity to play the other end of the scale."

I remember coming up to Dick's house,

Marion was there, Mel Gibson,

and the major executives from Warner Brothers were there,

and Mel and I read the script, read from cover to cover,

we read the script.

Wa--wa--watch!

Now don't worry, you know, I was drivin'

before you were an itch in your daddy's pants.

Danny has a good sense of comedy.

There's a scene where his daughter comes down the stairs.

This is my New Year's Eve dress.

don't you like it, isn't it cool?

He's sort of noticing that she's dressed

and becoming a woman for the first time.

And he sorta does this double take, and he goes.

He does this Jack Benny thing.

He actually looks like Jack Benny.

[laughing]

That's interesting 'cause I love Jack Benny.

There was something about Jack Benny and his use of silence.

I'm the one who's giving the party.

[laughing]

He was able to capture the moment,

and elongate that moment,

so, uh, there's a little bit of that I guess.

I'm not crazy.

I know.

Oh, good, let's eat.

After we all finished reading, there was a moment's silence,

and someone said, "Let's go make a movie."

I said, "Marion, you just made the greatest team

that's ever happened since Abbott and Costello."

This script said "Riggs" and it said "Murtaugh".

It didn't say color.

And when Marion said that to me,

and I answered her like that,

it was like a nail in my heart to think

I'm bigoted, I'm narrow,

I--if it's not on paper, I don't see it.

Dick Donner said, "Well, Danny Glover's black,"

and it'd been left at that.

But in some way the fact that she said it,

that this great casting director said,

"This team is going to be something special,"

it opened up some kind of space for him, inside of him.

It changed my life in casting, but more important,

it changed my life in reality.

That's a casting lady, that's a casting director

who if you're all out here, you understand,

this is a woman that really changed my life,

and I, uh, one of the reasons I thank you all.

[cheering]

♪

Time Incorporated and Warner Communications

announced they've agreed to a merger.

Another giant chunk of the American entertainment industry

fell into foreign hands today.

The industry was changing.

Coca-Cola is swallowing Columbia Pictures.

After the 70s, it became less of a personal business,

and more of a corporate business.

Sold for more than $6 billion.

Valued at $18 billion.

Studios are just sort of clearing houses now,

they're not really studios anymore.

It's not at all the business it was.

Now, casting decisions are made corporately,

instead of creatively.

In the late 90s, television actors were being assigned roles

in some of our feature films

whether they were right for the part or not,

because the studio decided that it could make money.

So that's who they would push.

That was very frustrating to Marion.

Their scripts weren't getting any better.

Sometimes they were getting worse.

I'm gonna be you, a big stupid dog.

Marion called me one day from the office.

She said, "They've offered me this movie

called 'See Spot Run'."

I could chase my tail.

I'm chasin' my tail, I'm chasin' my tail.

She started crying, "How do I have a career

with 'Midnight Cowboy,' 'Butch Cassidy,' and 'See Spot Run'?"

♪

I was a little unhappy.

I saw things changing.

Most of the directors that I had liked,

and had been happy with

were not doing much anymore.

It was different.

She began to feel a little bit pushed aside.

This is not a community

that's very forgiving about getting older.

I always felt her opinion wasn't listened enough to at that time.

The insight she had, the intuition,

you know, her history.

This is sort of the disease of Hollywood,

is the whole younger, hotter.

You know, younger filmmakers emerge,

and young executives emerge,

and they want younger, hotter casting people,

like they want younger, hotter actors.

To cast a movie full of character faces

is more difficult than it has been at times in the past.

♪

It's all about a physical quality, how you look.

Romance me with a nice dinner,

and, uh, maybe you can get that bonus.

It's not about one's interior, it's not about training,

it's none of those things.

And those were all the things,

particularly coming from New York,

that we all cared about.

♪

The president at the time said, "Do you want a job here?"

and I was like," Well, yeah, but Marion's here."

And he's like, "Well, she's gonna be leaving."

And I'm like, "Okay, well, have you talked to Marion?"

"Yes, we've talked to Marion."

And then Susan Smith called me and said,

"Yeah, she doesn't know what's going on."

And I was like, "Oh fuck."

I remember opening the trades,

and like the second or third page was a big blurb.

Lora Kennedy, new SVP of future casting at Warner Brothers.

♪

So I walk into the office, and I said, "Marion,"

I said, you know,

"it looks like they made an announcement today that,

you know, I'll let you read it."

She reads it, and she says, "Well,

I figured that was gonna happen, honey,

we just move on."

♪

Well, 50 years of casting,

that was the end of that.

I think it's a lack of respect

for casting directors in general, and what we do.

I think it's indicative of that, it's not indicative of Marion,

it's indicative of what we do, and how we're perceived.

Coming up live on The View.

I also hope that

the casting director for Grey's Anatomy is nominated.

Is there a category in the Primetime Emmys?

Oh, because the casting on that show is amazing.

Then we get out of hand,

then the garbage-collectors have to be nominated.

They're not exactly the same job.

The caterers.

My hundreds of colleagues and myself would not be that,

we'd be hurt by that comment,

but we wouldn't be shocked by it.

I think, um, there's a common misperception

and there's a common underestimation

of what casting directors do.

♪

If that's true, there's no--there's no, uh...

is their an Oscar for--no?

Is that correct?

I think it's crazy.

Well, I th--it's surprising.

We do, we get an Emmy Award, which is fantastic

that the the Television Academy has acknowledged us.

There's a reason why casting directors

are not nominated for Oscars,

it's because the DGA obviously doesn't want that to happen.

Every year, saying the Academy Award for Casting,

I totally, completely disagree with it.

I'm ultimately making those decisions.

And I will inevitably make those decisions as a director.

But isn't the costume the director's decision?

And isn't makeup and hair, and location, and...

isn't everything the director's decision?

Maybe it should end here instead.

The editor sits at the editing bay, cuts the movie,

and then the director comes in, and says, "Now, my cut."

The production designer designs the set, the director walks in,

he goes, "I don't want a wall there."

Hi, Mia, welcome.

The casting director brings in the actor,

but of course it's the director's decision,

because it's always the director's decision.

But the process of casting, you are never gonna know about.

Casting takes place in a room

between myself and my casting director.

So giving a casting Oscar would be a real misnomer.

I'd say you'd have to take some Oscars away

from some editors then,

because a really good editor

bring an enormous amount to a film,

but it's hard to know.

Maybe that DP did everything,

and maybe it was the director

who said, "No, no, we're shooting towards the light."

You don't know.

And so you don't know what a casting director has done,

of course you don't, it's all a collaborative art,

but, my god, they certainly deserve it

as much as the-- as anyone else.

At the Academy, David Rubin and I made a presentation.

We wrote this speech, and David read it to the board,

and it was so eloquent.

I said, "They can't say no."

But once again,

the Academy turned down the casting directors.

I think there's an old guard there

that perhaps started in the days when Marion started,

that still sees us as secretaries,

and that we don't really serve a function.

Giving casting directors Academy Awards was discussed often,

but, you know, you can't give everybody,

and there were--I don't wanna go into all the discussions.

The time is coming for this to be re-examined and rethought.

It's a wonderful recognition, and they deserve it.

Mark Rosenberg, the head of production at Warner Brothers

was a huge Marion fan.

So I said to Mark,

"Why don't we try to get Marion a special Oscar?"

She certainly is a remarkable woman and an absolute genius,

and there's such a history here,

and a new way of looking at casting.

And a generosity of spirit

in terms of passing it on to other people.

And also a very strong female part of the industry.

I talked to Julia and a lot of the women who'd worked with her,

and said, "What do you think, let's try to do it."

They started a campaign,

and there were some pretty wonderful letters

from some pretty wonderful people.

"Dear Board of Governors,

I've long felt the department of casting

to be overlooked in acknowledgement.

Marion Dougherty is one of the few

who has pioneered a new path in this area."

"She's always been deeply committed,

risk-taking and very wise in casting.

She's been a great influence on many other casting directors

who learned the pursuit of excellence from her."

"Ms. Dougherty is respected and admired by her colleagues.

She is a corner stone in the film industry,

and her achievements should not go unrecognized."

"She has a sensitivity to understand

what directors want and need,

sometimes more than they do.

She is a joyous risk taker,

and one of the golden ladies of Hollywood."

"She's a dedicated casting director

with a special talent for finding the right personality

to fit the right part.

I support your effort to present Marion

with this great achievement."

[applause]

♪

A casting director with one really good idea

can fundamentally readjust an audience's understanding

of what the story is,

what the impact is on the culture.

That's what they do, and if we're lucky

we get the benefit of those moments of inspiration.

I think all the great directors are very grateful

to the really gifted casting directors

because I'm sure

they were forced to cast people that they didn't know,

and might have been nervous about,

and the great casting directors have good reason

for taking the risk,

and I think the movies are better for it.

♪

♪

♪

♪

♪

I just wish you were back, Marion.

I wish you were working.

I wish you were doing what you always did.

You know, because the actors need you, we all need you.

Marion, I love you.

You know, I remember you told me a story about a boat you loved,

a dingy you had at your house that was in...

Way Up Island, maybe even Maine.

I loved you for that.

And then over time, I loved you for much more.

God bless.

I'm just another piddling actor

who benefitted greatly from your ministrations,

and I'm here today, sitting on my fat ass

in this cushy office...

delighted to say "Thank you."

Marion...

if you've forgotten me it's okay.

I haven't...

I never will forget you.

Thank you.

You're great, Marion, it was a great privilege for me

to have worked with you all those years.

So thanks, babe.

♪

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