All language subtitles for 63 Up part3_track3_eng

In 1964, Granada Television brought
together a group of seven-year-olds.

When I grow up,
I want to be an astronaut.

We have followed their lives
every seven years.

I don't want to keep still cos life,
you know, don't wait for nobody.

They've talked about their dreams...

If I could have
two girls and two boys.

..their ambitions...

I'd quite like to get into politics.

..and their fears for the future.

Life is what happens while
you're waiting for something else.

I don't think
life is there to be regretted.

You've got to make the most of it
while you've got it.

That's how you become
the person you are.

It's a picture of how any person,
how they change.

Give me a child until he is
seven and I will give you the man.

We first met Paul
at a children's home in West London.

Along with Symon.

I thought I'm old and that,
enough to get a job.

I'll just walk around...

and see what I can find.

They say, "Where's your father,
then, you know,

"when your mum's out at work?"

And I just tell 'em I ain't got one.

When Paul left the children's home,
he moved to Australia.

Were you happy
at the children's home any more?

I didn't mind that, really, because
we didn't know what was going on

because we were a bit young.

When I was born, you know,
an illegitimate child,

you know, that's...

something
that's only whispered about.

People, you know, feel strongly
about it in those days,

but nowadays it's...

It's not a serious matter,
the serious point is,

is whether you stay with somebody
or you leave them.

My father got remarried. Erm...

And how do you get on
with your stepmum?

Pretty well, but like I said before,
I mean, I'm not, I'm just not close,

I'm not really close to
my father either.

I was gonna be a policeman,

but I thought how hard
it would be to join in.

I was gonna be a Phys Ed teacher,

but er,
one of the teachers told me that...

you had to get up into university.

As a young man, Paul spent
many years in the building trade

and then moved on into factory work.

I was gonna be a film star, but...

..now I'm gonna be
an electrical engineer,

which is more to reality, really.

By 21, Symon was working

in the freezer room of
Wall's Sausages in London.

I know I can't stay at Wall's
forever, I mean, it's just not me.

I couldn't stay there for that long,
my mind would go dead.

Do you never feel you should be
doing better jobs than these?

Aren't you worth more than this?

No, I haven't, really. I suppose
I just like hard work, I don't know.

Not really interested in

moving up... up the scale.
Why?

I don't need the hassle to be the...
charger, manager, or whatever.

Tell me,
do you have any girlfriends?

Well, not many.

What do you think about girls?
Not much.

Erm... since 21... I've got married.

Had a couple of kids. And, erm...

By 28, he had married Yvonne.
And they had five children.

What would you like to give
your children that you never had?

They've got everything that...

They've even got what I never had.

So...
Which is what?

A father, innit?

By 35, they were divorced.

All I want out of life is
to be happy, and when I say happy,

I want to be happily married
as well.

Well, what was it you fell in love
with? What was it about him?

His helplessness, I suppose,
it was the motherly instinct in me.

To pick him up and cuddle him,
and...

He's also very good-looking, I
think, but he doesn't agree with me.

And in the summer, he's got
this cute little bum in shorts.

In their 20s, Paul and Sue sold up,
bought an old van,

and travelled across Australia.

I think it brought us closer
together because, you know,

we really got to know each other
and we relied on each other so much.

I'd never been so relaxed
in my life.

I felt a lot more confident
in myself.

By the time they were 28,
Paul and Sue had two children.

Katie and Robert.

Katie did well at school
and went on to university.

The first person
in her entire family ever to do so.

Robert trained as a car mechanic.

He met Stacy
when they were teenagers

and they now have five children.

By the time he was 42,
Symon had married Vienetta.

Used to go out when we were younger.
We met in the laundrette.

Once a week.
Once a week in the laundrette.

Vienetta already had a daughter,
Miriam.

And she and Symon had a son, Daniel.

Ah-ha!

Obviously,
when children come into foster care,

family and friends are involved
as well, we have to ensure that...

By 49, Symon and Vienetta had
decided to train as foster parents.

Went to boarding school
when I was young

and I always felt that that was...

regimental.

They didn't allow for personal care,
for loving from the adult carers,

so I wanted to do
something like that for myself,

you know, in my own home.

Do you know
why Uncle Sam looks younger?

Because he's so laid back.

When we first started fostering,

we didn't even realise that you
actually got a payment for doing it.

We just did it
because we wanted to help.

About four years ago, we were told
that we'd looked after 130-odd kids.

It's a very hard thing,

but it's also magnificently easy
when it goes well.

I've still got five children.

They haven't really taken

the breakup of my first marriage
too well.

I've got still to get to grips
with that and...

get to them and make them understand
that Daddy is still Daddy.

Last year,
Symon invited his entire family

to celebrate Vienetta's birthday.

They're all together now.

They've come round and
they've seen that Dad is still Dad,

whatever's happened.

Time is the healer, isn't it?
You rush, and push, and pull.

You might be able to do
that with a parcel,

but you can't do that
with a person.

It made me feel 110%, everybody
together, and everybody here for me,

it was, it was...
It was nice.

Yeah, it was beautiful.
It was nice.

So, what's happened in the last
seven years since we were here?

Grandchildren, lots of them.

So how many have you got now?
I've got ten now.

It's lovely. It just tires me out,
I haven't got the energy.

All the time.

Run! Run!

What's happened in the family
in the last seven years?

Got another grandchild.

Brody. So there's six.

Talk nicely to him.
Hey, Benny, Benny.

Katie's a school teacher.

She has a man in her life now.

Very nice chap,
which we're pleased about.

Hopefully,
more grandchildren.

No pressure!

Look at that.
They do look very happy

in all that mud, don't they, Shane?

The fact we've been married
for 40 years

is just really a fluke, really,

you know, like, no,
but what I mean is we've tried hard

and that's part of the success,

but you don't know
when you're gonna get married

that it's gonna succeed and
go for 40 years, you have no idea.

You can see Windsor Castle
from that house.

Oh, look at that.

We don't see each other...

Over the years, Paul and Sue
have met up with Symon and Vienetta

when visiting family in England.

Come on,
let me get you organised.

But now, for the first time,

Symon and Vienetta
have come to Australia.

Hello!
Hello.

We got on really well
when we visited them in England.

I think
Symon and Paul are very similar.

Symon's very creative,
sort of artistic.

A beautiful person to be around.

And Vienetta, well,
her and I are

just two peas out
of the same pod.

I just think it's a wonderful
thing to be able to invite them

and they be able to come out here

because it's not like it's just
across the road, it's a big trip,

and they're gonna share Christmas
with us and our family.

Would your life
have been totally different

if you'd had the chance Paul had
to come to Australia?

For me then,
it probably would have been better.

To actually try and figure it out
now, would it have been better?

I wouldn't wanna say
because your life is as it is,

so not as it could be.
Yeah.

I don't like the big boys hitting us

and the prefects sending us out,
out for nothing.

And this park, I remember this park,
but I've never walked down it...

At 21, when Paul was in London,
we decided to take him and Symon

back to the children's home.

Why were you there?

I believe
it was a divorce custody dispute.

Most children at that age, if they
were taken away from their parents,

they wouldn't be overly happy.

No.

Did you get to see
much of your parents?

I can only vaguely remember
my dad coming...

..to visit every now and then.

I was there for about six years.

And the only thing
I really, really missed was my mum.

She was everything to me
and she wasn't there.

Remember the tiles?

She couldn't cope with the situation
of having to look for me

and she didn't have
a place of her own at the time.

Remember Midgey?
He was a real bastard.

'You felt that you were kept
in order all the time.'

'Kids did get the cane if they were
caught doing anything wrong.'

So did you get caned?
Not that I can remember.

I was a very, very good boy.

He was the tailor.

I remember him.

I didn't get a lot of cuddles,

and affects you,
the way you treat your kids,

in as much as you try to do it more,

but you probably don't do it
as much as some other people do.

I wanted to love my children,

but I used to try to give them
discipline instead.

Instead of...

just giving them the little hugs
and stuff they needed,

that I knew they needed
because I needed it.

The headmaster's son used to shoot
the squirrels off the trees.

'I definitely felt insecure.
I can still remember that.'

I-I didn't feel insecure...

when I was being told be here,

be there, do this, do that.
Yeah.

Where I felt insecure
was outside of all of that.

You can't believe
after so many years

that things have really not changed
all that much, you know?

Paul took Symon to
the children's home where he lived

when he first arrived in Australia.

So, how old were you
when you first came here?

I was somewhere between seven
and eight years of age, I would say.

We pretty much landed
in Australia...

wasn't all that long
before my father arranged for us

to come up here and live.

And how was it to be here?

The best childhood memories
I've got is of being up here.

Why didn't he take you home
to live with them?

Well, I think
Dad was a coat and dress designer,

and they were also
trying to set a house up,

and that's just the way
that they chose to do it.

My dad, despite...

..what other members of the family
might have...

He was a good man,
he was a kind man.

He was strict, but he was kind.

You know, I was always frightened
of everything as a young child

and I think it,
you know, slowly but surely

it just slowly
brought me out of myself.

Like Paul,
I was very shy when I was young

and I think
this place would give you

the confidence
to do things for yourself.

I think my main weakness is
I don't really take a grip of life.

I know if I ever wanted to get on,
I could do it.

I think what it is, really, I'm just
waiting for an excuse to use it.

This one just there.
Yeah, yeah.

Both the wives say that
you both lack confidence.

The lack of confidence,
you sort of second guess yourself

or question yourself all the time.

Just like just now, I noticed
we both looked at each other

because we both knew
exactly what we were going to say.

But we waited, we waited
for the other one to say it. Yeah.

What's been the saddest, toughest
time for you in your life so far?

Oh, I think early years,

going away from the home
and going to the boarding school,

and living away from home here
as well.

Here's Granddad.
Hey.

My father died
approximately four years ago.

That was very sad.

He was the one constant in my life.

Sorry.

Even though
I knew my mum wasn't well at all

and she was probably dying,
I still felt she'd be there forever.

When she actually died, there were
so many things that I never asked.

Why did you not marry Dad
or stay with him?

So there were so many things that...

were left unsaid.

Say you had a wife...

say you had to eat
what they cooked you,

and say I don't like greens -
well, I don't.

One of the fundamental premises
of this series of films

is you can see the man
in the seven-year-old child.

Basically, what you see is

a seven-year-old shy, not very
confident, worried about everything,

that's what I was like... then

and, and to a great degree,
still like that.

I'm not making light of
what I have achieved,

but I wasn't going to make
any wonderful achievements.

I think that was pretty obvious
I was going to be just a worker.

Hiya, Paul. How are you?

OK, everybody, tucker's ready!
Anyone for some food?

Do you have any regrets?

There's just no place
for regrets in this world.

But I mean,
I've been lucky, meeting Susan,

I've been with her
longer than I was with my dad.

And she's been an unbelievable
influence on my life.

Getting me to see the positive side
of things, rather than the negative.

Maybe one regret is probably
would have liked more children.

I feel OK just getting on with life.

Just sort of keeping up.

But, er, I know if
I really wanted to, I could get on.

The sooner you
understand who you are,

the sooner you
understand what you can do.

It's taken me... virtually
60 years to understand who I am.

When I leave the school,
I'm going to College Court.

And then I will be going to
Westminster boarding school

if I pass the exam.

And then we think I'm going to, erm,
Cambridge and Trinity Hall.

John went to Westminster.

Then on to read law
at Christchurch, Oxford.

I do believe parents have
a right to educate their children

as they think fit. I think someone
who works on the assembly line

and some of these car factories,
earning a huge wage,

could well afford to send

their children to private school,
if they wanted to.

At 21, we asked him
what career he would pursue.

Might be at the bar.

Doing what?

Perhaps chancery practice.

I now have a career.
I'm a barrister. Erm...

Other than that,
life chugs along in varying degrees.

Well, in a sense, not very much
has changed in my career

over the last 14 years,

I'm still a barrister,
I still wear a curly white wig.

Erm, the only visible difference,
I suppose,

is I wear a silk gown
because I'm now a QC.

What's changed in your life
since we last talked?

Seven years older,
seven years fatter. A bit less hair.

I mean, nothing much, really.

I mean, you know, on
a more serious level, I'm still...

A barrister, a QC.

When boys go around with girls,

they don't pay attention
to what they're doing.

My grandmother had an accident

because her boyfriend was kissing
his girlfriend in the street.

By 35, John had married Claire,

the daughter of
a former ambassador to Bulgaria.

It is coincidental that we met,
but it's obvious that

the Balkan connection
was a strong mutual interest.

It is a great pleasure
to welcome you all here tonight

on behalf of Friends of Bulgaria.

My mother, in fact, is from Bulgaria
and that explains why for me,

Bulgaria is
an especially important place.

The hounds are over there, I think.

I think the more
you've had out of the country,

the more privileges you're born
with, the greater your duty is.

I still feel as I did when I was 21
that it's important for

people who have had advantages
to try and put as much back

and to help others less fortunate
than themselves if they can.

Recently, I think
this charity, Friends of Bulgaria,

is something
that's very important in my life.

When we first came,
the country really was on its knees.

I remember we were taking
basic things, like anaesthetics,

round to hospitals,
and blood supplies.

And all of that's changed.

Bulgaria's been in the EU now
since, erm,

I think about 2006
and it's slowly catching up.

We're in Veliko Tarnovo, which is
the medieval capital of Bulgaria.

And Friends of Bulgaria, the charity
of which I'm now chairman,

we have various projects.

We are here to see how
those projects are going along.

This plaque here
commemorates my great-grandfather,

who's sitting in the front row.

By then, he'd already been
a leader of the revolution

against the Turks in Plovdiv,

and actually, he'd been condemned
to death because he was captured.

He also did an awful lot
for charity.

I'm sure he keeps me up to my mark.

I do feel I'd like to continue
the tradition of doing good things

to help people here, even if I don't
quite have his means personally,

it's on a more modest scale.

I feel I could go on forever,

but the trouble is
many of my solicitor clients

are themselves retiring

and, you know, the worry is
I'll end up with no clients.

So no clients, no cases.

So as I understand it, we're going
to meet three of the children who...

So what would you do
when it comes time to retire?

I won't be bored.

I love travel.

We're still riding, still enjoying
the English countryside.

I did have a terrible fall
from a horse about two years ago

so that was dicing with death,
I had a brain haemorrhage

and, erm,
that was definitely unfunny.

I can still play the piano a bit.
I'm not as good as I used to be.

A very nonchalant little theme.
You know?

Butter wouldn't melt in its mouth.

Whether it's old age and arthritis,

or whether it's falling off horses
too many times,

I don't know,
but I mean, I don't feel I've got

quite the dexterity
in my fingers.

Certainly I can never tell
the difference between you playing

and the CD playing
when I'm out of the room.

Yeah, very good. Very good.

Well, she's very diplomatic.
No, no, it's true.

Are you ambitious?
Yes.

What for?
Well, fame.

And power.

What sort of power?
Political power.

I'd quite like to go into politics,
but I mean, that's, you know,

easier said than done.

I don't know why I felt like that,
but I did

and maybe it's because
all the Bulgarian ancestors

were all prime ministers
and things like that.

But I mean, the truth is I've been
a big disappointment to myself

because, erm...

I've decided not to throw my hat
into the ring for politics.

And I don't have any regrets,
if the truth be told.

How do you think England
will change over the next few years?

Not very much.

England is too English,
if you see what I mean.

People who have had things going
well for them really ought to stay

and sort of help the country out
when it's, you know,

things aren't going very well.

I don't believe in
all this pulling one's money out.

Where do you stand on Brexit?

I don't mind saying I voted remain.

I can't say I'm a fantastically
enthusiastic European

wearing my English hat.

But on the other hand,

I thought it was a leap into the
dark that we didn't need to take.

I blame quite a few politicians.

I suppose I blame David Cameron

because I think the decision
to hold a referendum was a mistake

and it's much too complicated
a question

to submit to
a simple yes or no answer.

I think it's not a bad idea to pay
for schools because if we didn't,

schools would be
so nasty and crowded.

The world now is very different
from what it was when we were seven.

I think there were...

inequalities in British society
at that stage,

which I must say
I don't see any more.

'Something I did slightly object to
in the programmes,

'we were shown at the age of seven'

outlining sort of
the academic sort of career

that most of us did in fact pursue,
you know.

It was presented
as if it was just part of

some indestructible birthright that
we went to all of these places

and I thought that was unfair
and it didn't show us

sort of having to do beastly jobs
in the holidays.

If you're talking about people
from my background, I think...

life is probably more difficult
for them

because there's more competition.

So many more people
go to university,

no-one cares at all
what background people go to.

People recruit to get
the best people for the job

that they have to offer.

Sean McEnessie
got three minuses in a day.

And he's a pest.

'It has to be said that
I bitterly regret that

'the headmaster of the school
where I was when I was seven

'pushed me forward for this series.'

Because every seven years,

a little pill of poison
is injected into, erm...

I know.
Well, that's, that's...

Well, it's the truth.

I'm much more down to earth as
a person than I might have ended up

when I was seven.

And that was probably
because, you know,

I did a year and more in the Army
before going up to Oxford

and, you know,
there were various things

that introduced me
to the real world.

Whereas, I could have been stuck
in an ivory tower.

What viewers were never told is that my
father died when I was aged nine,

leaving my mother

in very uncomfortable
financial circumstances.

She had to go out to work...

to see us through school
and that, you know,

I got a scholarship to Oxford.

You know, I don't regard myself
as particularly typical of the type

that I was no doubt
selected to represent.

I mean, apart from anything else,
I'm three quarters foreign,

which is an odd beginning for...
well, one of the papers described me

after 21 as
the archetypal Tory squire.

What's the most important thing
in your life?

My wife,
my family and friends.

My homes. If I'm allowed a fourth,
I'd say my animals.

How do you think you've changed
since you were seven?

Well, I mean, one grows
so slowly that one never notices.

Any regrets about decisions
you've made in your life?

No, I can't say that.

But it's not really my character,

I always try and make
the best of everything,

even if it's not
the best situation you're in.

Do you have any boyfriends, Suzy?

Yes.

He lives up in Scotland.

And I think he's 13.

Have you got any boyfriends, Suzy?

What is your attitude
towards marriage?

Well, I don't know, I mean,
I haven't given it a lot of thought

because
I'm very, very cynical about it.

I was the only child going through
their parents splitting up aged 14,

all at a very vulnerable age
and it does cut you up.

But there's no point in them
staying together for me

because it was worse, I mean,
the rows, and... it's, it's worse.

When I last saw you at 21, you were
nervous, you were chain-smoking,

you were uptight,
and now you seem happy.

What's happened to you
over these last seven years?

I suppose Rupert.

I'll give you some credit.
Thank you. I'm now chain-smoking.

I'm not very children-minded
at the moment

and I don't know if I ever will be.

What do you think about them?
I don't like babies.

What was the biggest shocks to you

when you suddenly were confronted
with a small baby?

The panic set in, I think, that
I wasn't going to be able to cope.

We were lucky,
we had a very good

family unit with them growing up

and that meant an awful lot to me,

that I was able to do that for them
because I never had it for myself.

What do you think about
making this programme?

I just think it's just ridiculous,
I don't see any point in doing it.

There's a lot of baggage that gets

stirred up every
seven years for me

that I find quite, that I find
very hard to, to deal with.

I don't know what happened.

I was quite adamant
I wasn't going to do it.

And then...

I don't know, I suppose I have this
ridiculous sense of loyalty to it.

Even though I hate it.

Hello.

Suzy decided not to take part in
63 Up.

When I grow up,
I want to be an astronaut,

but if I can't be an astronaut,
I think I'll be a coach driver.

This is probably linked up with
the fact I want to travel.

I mean,
my thoughts haven't really changed.

Although I definitely wouldn't like
to be a coach driver now.

Watch this.

Neil grew up in a Liverpool
suburb with his friend Peter

and had dreams of going to Oxford,
but didn't get in.

Instead,
he went to Aberdeen University,

but dropped out
after the first term.

At 21, Neil was working on a
building site and living in a squat.

I would like to be somebody
in a position of importance

and I've always thought this.

Erm... But I don't think
I'm the right sort of person

to carry the responsibility
for whatever it is.

I always thought,
well, I'd love to be...

..possibly love to be in politics

or something like this.

At 28, we found Neil homeless,

wandering around
the west coast of Scotland.

If the money runs out,
well, then for a few days,

there's nowhere to go to,
that's just, that's all you can do.

I simply have to find
the warmest shed I can find.

At 35, he was living
in a council estate

on the most northerly part of
Britain, the Shetland Islands.

What would you like to be doing,
say, in seven years?

I can think of all kinds of things
that I'd like to be doing.

The real question is what am I,
what am I likely to be doing?

What are you likely to be doing?

That's a horrible question.

Erm... I tend to think
the most likely answer is that

I'll be wandering homeless
around the streets of London.

Can I just point out some
of the considerable disadvantages?

Erm, first of all,
they are geographically...

At 42, Neil had moved to London

and was a Liberal Democrat
on Hackney Council.

While I was in Shetland,
I felt very strongly that

I should become involved in politics
simply because I felt

I was not achieving anything in the
ways I really, I really wanted to.

By 49, Neil had left London,

moved to Cumbria
in the north-west of England,

and was a Liberal Democrat member
of his local district council.

Neil Hughes is
the Liberal Democrat candidate.

I and the Liberal Democrats

want to see a just and fair society,
in which everyone...

In 2006, I was invited to go
to Australia to give a talk.

And the chap who introduced me said,

"Neil is clearly such
a profoundly-motivated politician

"that we can all expect to see him

"as Prime Minister of
the United Kingdom."

Now, this wasn't a joke,
I assure you.

He said this with absolute
seriousness. Now, it was ludicrous.

But this is how wildly-skewed
the perceptions have become.

I mean, do you think I really would
have been invited to Australia

if they were aware that

I was someone who lives on
a few quid a week benefit

and has as much chance of changing
the future of the United Kingdom

as someone who's serving
a lifetime jail sentence?

I'm not for an instant

under the impression that
politics was always completely moral

and so obviously there have always
been issues, but it's very sad that

so few people now feel that
politics has any answers for them.

They don't see anything in any of
the political, erm, affiliations.

Those who protest
outside abortion clinics,

if they do so peacefully,
are actually protesting...

'As long as I can still remember
what I'm going to say

'when I stand up in council,
which isn't guaranteed,

'then I'll, I'll keep doing it
for a bit.'

Where do you stand on Brexit?

It's quite
an unbelievable occurrence.

It's as if you're asking
everybody in Britain to take poison

and say they thought
it was for their good health.

So cheers!

The vote wasn't
a vote to leave the European Union,

it was a vote against all
politicians from whatever parties,

and against the deteriorating
society we live in.

I don't think, erm,
I was really taught

any sort of policy of living at all
by my parents.

This is probably
the biggest mistake,

that I was just left
to fend myself in a world

which
they seem completely oblivious of.

I mean, what's your feeling
towards your parents,

both of whom I know passed away?

It's not resentment.

Er, they did their very best.

I don't say this cruelly, a problem
within their own personalities,

which caused me unending difficulty.

My father, very serious,
very secretive.

He could be very harsh
in the punishments he gave out.

My mother, completely different,
utterly superficial.

A genuine lover of the arts,

but as much of a dilettante
as you could possibly imagine.

So she knew
a little about everything,

but not a great deal about...

..about very much.

And did you ever have it out
with your father?

Oh, many arguments, yeah.

More often than not,
my father would just sit in silence.

And my mother would talk,
but it was mostly to herself.

When I get married,
I don't want to have any children

b-because...

they are always doing naughty things
and making the whole house untidy.

Children inherit
something from their parents

and even if my wife were the most,
erm, high-spirited, and ordinary,

and normal of people,

the child would still stand a very
fair chance of being not totally,

er, full of happiness

because what he or she
will have inherited from me.

What's happened in your life
in the last seven years?

Oh, that, that takes us back to,
er,

when I met my current wife.

Erm, and, erm, er...

And four, four or more years
of happy marriage and then, er,

an unfortunate
series of occurrences, I suppose,

which means we don't see each other
very often now.

How did you two meet?

Well, I was performing
in the village pantomime

and she came along and watched it.

We courted in the same way that
any two 20-year-olds would court.

We walked along the River Tees
at Stockton.

There was a lovely restaurant down
there that, erm, we used to eat in.

But we did a lot of lovely things
together.

I don't for a minute regret
that partnership.

I'm just sorry that for reasons
I will never fully understand,

it, it, it's got to where it is.

My tendency to get in low moods
was not helpful to her.

I quite understand that.

Although she was well aware of that
when we got married.

I made some very...
strenuous attempts to reconcile us.

We met a couple of times this year.

And I was hoping that
things might improve,

but they don't seem to have done.

But as far as I'm concerned, there's
time for her to, to reconsider.

Mm.

Whether that'll happen,
I don't know.

Do you worry about your sanity?

Other people sometimes worry
about it.

Like who?
I sometimes can be found

behaving
in, in, in an erratic fashion.

Erm, sometimes
I get very frustrated, very angry.

Are you having any medical
treatment for your mood changes?

No, I haven't for many years.

Because
I wouldn't like to be dependent

upon man-made substances for a cure.

Do you ever think you are going mad?

I don't think it, I know it.
Er, I, erm...

woke up with...

We're not allowed to use
the word mad, but, erm...

You know. I think most people
are mad here, really.

It's incredibly difficult
to talk about.

Nobody wants to confess that they
suffer spells of mental ill health.

Sometimes, if I'm feeling...

particularly depressed,
particularly...

There are some situations in which
I do want somebody to speak to me,

but there are many situations

in which actually, I want to be left
alone till I am feeling better.

And I think that
this is perhaps the point

my wife found it particularly hard
to, erm...

Because I did say to her,
say something to me

if you can see I'm depressed,

but don't keep on saying it,
just leave me alone after that.

In the winter,
if you lived in the country,

well, it would just be all wet

and there wouldn't be anything
for miles around.

And you'd get, and you'd get soaked
if you tried to go out.

And there's no shelter anywhere.

I don't see any way out. I thought
of everything I possibly could.

It seemed to me for a long time
that getting a reliable job,

a nice place to live
would be the solution.

Well, I haven't succeeded.

Erm... I can't see
any immediate future at all.

Neil still lives in Cumbria,
but he's bought a house in France.

So, how long have you had the house?

Two and a half years.

My wife found it
on a website for properties.

She persuaded me that it was
the one that would suit me the best.

And how did this come about?

After my mother died, there was a...

..a legacy divide
between my brother and I.

And some of it was able
to be put towards this house.

So, tell me
what this place means to you.

It's, it's just a lovely,
quiet place in the country.

I've, I've lived much of my life
in rural places in the past.

I think rural places have a lot
of shared values, wherever you go.

People tend to look after
one another better.

Communication is easier.

And you'll get good local food
and country activity,

and so on, that sort of thing.

But I do miss the towns
and the cities sometimes as well.

I miss London, where I lived.

I think if you're healthy
and have good friends,

you can get on perfectly well.

But everybody would like to be rich.

If the state didn't give us
any money...

it would probably just mean crime.

And I'm glad I don't have to steal
to keep myself alive.

How do you manage for money
these days?

I'm lucky in that what I earn
from being a county councillor

is sufficient for
my standards of living.

Bonjour.

Bonjour.
Je voudrais, s'il vous plait,

acheter quelque pommes de terres
et quelque pommes.

So, since I've been doing that,

I haven't needed to claim
any state benefits.

And what a great relief it was
not to have to do that.

So, are you frightened
of getting old?

I do have concerns. I've always
relied on my body very much.

Whatever else has been going on,

I've generally been
in excellent physical health.

I never really seriously believed
when I was a teenager

that I'd be a pensioner because
it just seemed so implausible.

Despite the fact everybody
who gets the chance does grow old.

I regret having reached
the age I'm at,

I've had no success in the sphere
I really want to be successful in.

Being a writer, my instinct

is very much about interaction
with the rest of society,

which in my case just hasn't
happened, it simply hasn't happened.

Yes, I'd say I believed in God.
Are you religious?

Well, I go to church with my parents
on Sundays.

Oh, I don't know even now
whether I do believe in God or not.

I've thought an awful lot about it,
actually.

And, er, I still don't know.

And how has He been treating you?

Well, I said to somebody
last week that

I preferred the Old Testament
to the New Testament

because in the Old Testament,
God is very unpredictable.

Er, and that's, I think,
how I've seen Him in my life.

If you haven't already been told,

the proposed pet show
is unfortunately cancelled.

I'm a lay minister.

I'm licensed to carry out
quite a number of functions.

That includes leading services,

preaching,
taking part in the readings,

helping to distribute
the communion, and so on.

In fact, I can do more or less
everything a priest can do.

In the name of the Father,
and of the Son,

- and of the Holy Spirit...
- Amen.

Are you still doing that work?

I've just recently been re-licensed

as a reader
in the Church of England.

The title reader is really...

that of lay preacher.

I wake up every day and
I don't know what's going to happen.

I don't know where I will be
in a month's time, six months' time,

a year's time.

But my Christian faith helps me.

It's made a great deal of difference
to my life.

I would say I've clearly experienced
beneficial effects,

but... that's not
what religion is about.

Everybody hopes they do get
beneficial results from it,

but really, it's more about
having the relationship with God.

In Christianity, that's through
Jesus Christ and His teaching.

Every time this programme starts,
it says,

"Give me a child until he is seven
and I will give you the man."

Mm.
Is that true or false?

You're probably in a...
you and the audience

are probably in a better position

on the evidence
that's been presented.

We don't do much fighting in school

because, because we think
it's horrible and it hurts.

You get certain different types
of people.

People with different sorts of
brains, you know.

From the very sort of,
very clever people to, you know,

people who haven't got much sense
at all, really.

I wonder why I was like that.

I wonder what it was inside me
that made me like that.

And I can see even at 14 then,
I was beginning to get more subdued

and I was putting a lot more thought
into what I was saying...

to a ridiculous degree.

I mean, you were the classic example

of it not being true.
At 7 and 14...

Mm.
..everybody was in love with you.

Yeah.
You were...

And now nobody speaks to me.
Well, I'm sure they do.

But, you know, your own life went
into a kind of freefall, somewhat.

I don't know
what sort of stumbling blocks

should be put in, in a child's way

to get him used to living
in the outside world.

Because I think maybe this is,

this is something
that was wrong in my upbringing,

I didn't have enough obstacles
to get over,

to toughen myself up against.

The change of you at 14...
Mm.

..to the change of you at 21...
Yeah.

..on the building site
was staggering.

How can you explain
that vast change?

I thought differently,
I had different aspirations.

I wasn't content with
a quiet, domesticised life.

I had to go out and...
and seek adventure.

And it had its downside

because I hadn't really been well
prepared for it in, in my childhood.

What's the happiest time you've had?

I'm just happy
when something goes right

and it can be
something very straightforward.

If I can get something done for
somebody through my council work,

then I'm genuinely happy.

And in my church work,

if I think I'm genuinely
communicating something

to people about God,
then that delights me inside.

Before I ever met my wife,

I did have
a very serious relationship

with an Australian girl, with who
I can say truly the only person

I was ever really deeply in love
with.

And I think she...
she felt similarly towards me.

And she said to me eventually,
she said,

"This is an impossible situation,

"not because of
what we feel for each other,

"but because we live so far apart."

The idea of true love, which
I do think exists, occurs so seldom.

You know,
it occurs once in somebody's life,

if they're extremely lucky.

For it then to happen

and then the potential
can't be fulfilled is heartbreaking.

We-e-e-e-e!

At the end of
their very special day in London,

after their trip
to the zoo and the party...

..we took our children
to an adventure playground,

where they could do
just what they liked.

Those from the children's home
set about building a house.

There's Nicholas.

And Tony.

Andrew.

John.

And Bruce.

Jackie and her friends.

Give me a child until he is seven
and I will give you the man.

This has been
a glimpse of Britain's future.