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- In 1964 Granada
Television brought together
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a group of seven-year-olds
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00:00:10,401 --> 00:00:13,601
from all over the country
and from all walks of life.
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- I'm going to work in Woolworths.
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- I read "The Financial Times."
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- They talked
about their dreams,
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their ambitions, and their
fears for the future.
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- Everything throughout the
year, it all landed on my head.
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00:00:30,961 --> 00:00:32,721
- For nearly half a century,
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in a unique, groundbreaking
series of films,
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we have followed their
lives every seven years.
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They are now 46.
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- Sometimes we go out and
play nicely with the boys
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and sometimes we go out
and argue with the boys.
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00:00:51,361 --> 00:00:53,881
- Sue grew up
in the East end of London.
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- I don't think I'll
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get married too early,
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I'd like to have a full life first.
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Marriage to me is a different thing to me,
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00:01:03,041 --> 00:01:05,041
and I've still got my
ideals about marriage.
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I don't know what it's all about.
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- Sue was 24
when she married Billy,
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and they had two children,
William and Catherine.
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- I think that to get married young
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there must be things that you miss,
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you must miss that crucial
stage of being yourself,
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because the minute you get married
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you're no longer a single being,
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you're a partnership and that
should be the idea behind it.
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- By the time Sue
was 35, she was divorced.
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- I've never sat down and
thought, well what it was?
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Was it this, was it that, I
just knew it wasn't working.
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I mean there have been relationships
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when I could have settled but
they didn't feel quite right,
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so I've always come away and pulled away
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and just waited until
the right one come along,
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if they ever do.
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- At 42, when we
filmed Sue in the karaoke bar
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00:02:01,681 --> 00:02:04,121
she brought Glen along to watch her sing.
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♪ Baby, baby, baby, oh baby ♪
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We'd just met and things are going well,
42
00:02:07,961 --> 00:02:11,801
but now obviously things are
going very well.
43
00:02:11,801 --> 00:02:16,801
Well we've been engaged now
for about 14 years.
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I've not beaten any records,
45
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but it's quite a long time isn't it, yeah.
46
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Come on then.
47
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- Jessie come on.
48
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- We're completely different people,
49
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he's very energetic and tidy minded
50
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and I'm lazy and completely
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inactive.
- You're lazy?
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- I am completely and absolutely lazy.
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- Anything you want me to do?
54
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- And what about the
romance of getting married?
55
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- Yeah, I mean I do admit
it would be a nice party
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and I quite relish the idea
of having everyone round
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and having a good old
drink and a celebration,
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but I can have a party anytime.
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Who are you on the phone to?
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- Never you mind.
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- When I got married the primary reason
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was because I wanted to have a child.
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The two to me went together.
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- Have you and Glenn thought
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of having your own child?
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- Glenn would have made a great dad
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and when we first got together he asked me
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if we could have a family and all that,
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but I felt like I was past
it really, to be honest.
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I mean I had two teenagers and
didn't want to do that again,
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but he's loved bringing them up.
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- Last time we
talked about a bit of tension
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in that area.
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- No, I think that was
probably just the age they were
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and every family goes through that.
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There was nothing in
particular, I don't think,
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it was just all part of growing up really.
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- It wasn't easy
being a single mother, was it?
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- No it wasn't and
I look back on it now
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and I'm just amazed how I got through it.
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- What was
the toughest part of it?
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- Probably a combination
of not having enough money
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to do what you want and being alone
84
00:04:02,201 --> 00:04:04,001
and being scared when things happen,
85
00:04:04,001 --> 00:04:05,161
when things go wrong,
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which they always do when you've got kids.
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You've got no one there to turn to
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to talk about things like that.
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- And you had to work?
90
00:04:13,001 --> 00:04:14,361
- Yeah I had to work, yeah,
91
00:04:14,361 --> 00:04:16,361
but I was always only part-time
92
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so that I could fit it around school.
93
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- So who was
the biggest help to you
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00:04:20,121 --> 00:04:21,561
during this whole single parent?
95
00:04:21,561 --> 00:04:24,001
- Well there's no doubt at
all without my mom and dad
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I'd have never survived
it, they were brilliant,
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they were really really good.
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They mean the world to the kids
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and they used to look after them,
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always be there if something happened
101
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and I had to go somewhere.
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00:04:36,881 --> 00:04:39,281
- Yeah nice aren't they, it's
the first time we've seen.
103
00:04:39,281 --> 00:04:40,721
- And how are they doing now?
104
00:04:40,721 --> 00:04:45,721
- Yeah they're fine,
dad's 80 now and mom's 78.
105
00:04:47,041 --> 00:04:50,761
I'm so lucky that they're
still reasonably active.
106
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There you go, that's
lovely that one, isn't it?
107
00:04:53,921 --> 00:04:55,641
I've still got Catherine with me
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because she hasn't found
anywhere else to go.
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00:04:59,281 --> 00:05:02,841
I mean I'm sure she
would love to leave me,
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00:05:02,841 --> 00:05:05,241
but I love it the fact that she's here.
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00:05:05,241 --> 00:05:08,401
We go shopping and we do girlie things,
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do each other's hair and things like that,
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so I would miss her but I do,
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I know that she needs
to get out and move on.
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- I only had to have one filling,
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that was about the only thing I had done.
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00:05:19,961 --> 00:05:21,081
- And what about William?
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- Well, he went to Australia for a year
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and he never settled back
in being independent.
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I think it was too much,
121
00:05:28,561 --> 00:05:31,481
plus his room here was far too small.
122
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I mean his computer was
bigger than the room.
123
00:05:34,121 --> 00:05:37,721
So he's renting.
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00:05:37,721 --> 00:05:40,801
It's just so hard for them to
be able to afford something,
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00:05:40,801 --> 00:05:43,481
so in the future your
kids are gonna be with you
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for a long, long time.
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00:05:45,921 --> 00:05:48,721
A lot of my work is
involved in making bookings
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00:05:48,721 --> 00:05:52,081
and dealing with hotels abroad.
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00:05:52,081 --> 00:05:55,521
- At 21, Sue
worked for a travel agent.
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00:05:55,521 --> 00:05:59,761
At 35, part-time for a building society.
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00:05:59,761 --> 00:06:01,201
- Everything's changed
for me 'cause I'm now
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00:06:01,201 --> 00:06:04,721
supporting myself a lot more
than I was say a year ago.
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00:06:05,881 --> 00:06:09,441
- At 42, she went
back to work full-time,
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00:06:09,441 --> 00:06:12,281
helping to run the courses
in the legal faculty
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00:06:12,281 --> 00:06:15,201
of Queen Mary College,
University of London.
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At 49, she was the main administrator
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for their post graduate programme.
138
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So you like the responsibility?
139
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- Yeah I love the responsibility.
140
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I think I was born for the responsibility.
141
00:06:29,641 --> 00:06:32,281
I'm now the coordinator
of the entire programme,
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so sort of Marge in charge
really of them.
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00:06:37,481 --> 00:06:38,721
It's like my baby really,
144
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I've nurtured it from its small beginnings
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into what it is now.
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Thank you very much, see
you at graduation, yeah.
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00:06:46,681 --> 00:06:49,561
I really do enjoy it and
I get up in the morning
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and I don't ever think, oh god
I can't face going in to work
149
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but I know that happens
to a lot of people,
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so I'm lucky really.
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00:06:57,441 --> 00:06:59,721
Someone's having trouble
downloading this attachment,
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so I'll take this down for them.
153
00:07:01,641 --> 00:07:03,121
- So you've got
a lot of responsibility,
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00:07:03,121 --> 00:07:05,321
is there stress attached to it?
155
00:07:05,321 --> 00:07:07,481
- Sometimes, I mean some parts of the year
156
00:07:07,481 --> 00:07:10,961
are busier than others and
you've got deadlines to meet,
157
00:07:10,961 --> 00:07:12,321
but then in a way that's good
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00:07:12,321 --> 00:07:15,641
'cause it keeps you on your
toes you know, never get bored.
159
00:07:16,881 --> 00:07:20,401
- Where does the life of my
respectable middle class mother
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overlap with a working class slapper
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who leaves her illegitimate
child on a church door step?
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- She was not--
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- You don't know, she was
young and frail and beautiful.
164
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- It started not long
after the last programme,
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with Tony my neighbour, and
he belonged to the group.
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And I said, oh you know
I've been wishing I could do
167
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drama for years, since I was at school
168
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and he said come along.
169
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♪ That's the time you
must keep on trying ♪
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♪ Smile, what's the use of crying ♪
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To stand on the stage
and sing and have people
172
00:07:58,641 --> 00:08:01,361
hopefully appreciate it, hopefully,
173
00:08:02,561 --> 00:08:05,121
but there's still that
little nervous thing,
174
00:08:05,121 --> 00:08:06,921
the butterflies in your
stomach when you're waiting
175
00:08:06,921 --> 00:08:11,441
for the curtains to open,
and it's a buzz really.
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Realistically this is
the point you really do
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00:08:13,961 --> 00:08:16,961
have to consider, you can't do two modules
178
00:08:16,961 --> 00:08:19,121
that are taught at the
same time obviously.
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00:08:20,041 --> 00:08:22,601
When I get on the stage
to speak to 400 students,
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00:08:22,601 --> 00:08:25,161
now some people would
find that very daunting
181
00:08:25,161 --> 00:08:28,201
but I actually don't
because I think if you know
182
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that they can never ask you something
183
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you don't know the answer to,
184
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then I think that helps
build your confidence
185
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and I'm not exactly shy, am I.
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It always takes one you
see, once you get one
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then other people tend
to ask, but.
188
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- You never
went to university and now
189
00:08:44,281 --> 00:08:47,961
you're right in the middle
of a huge university machine.
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00:08:47,961 --> 00:08:49,401
- I suppose I should count my blessings
191
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that I'm actually in a university
having not done it myself.
192
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Yeah.
- Looking at it,
193
00:08:55,121 --> 00:08:57,321
do you wish you had had that opportunity?
194
00:08:57,321 --> 00:08:59,241
- Not really, it's the same as anything.
195
00:08:59,241 --> 00:09:00,921
Why look back and say I wish I'd did this,
196
00:09:00,921 --> 00:09:01,961
I wish I'd done that.
197
00:09:01,961 --> 00:09:05,401
I've had a good career, at
least I'll have my own home,
198
00:09:05,401 --> 00:09:07,721
which is a new thing for my family,
199
00:09:07,721 --> 00:09:09,441
'cause my mom and dad are obviously still
200
00:09:09,441 --> 00:09:10,881
in a council place.
201
00:09:10,881 --> 00:09:12,241
I'll never be a rich pensioner,
202
00:09:12,241 --> 00:09:14,481
I'll never be able to travel
the world once I retire,
203
00:09:14,481 --> 00:09:17,001
I'm afraid, but as long as
I can keep the house warm
204
00:09:17,001 --> 00:09:19,761
and we can feed ourselves
I think that will be fine.
205
00:09:32,561 --> 00:09:35,401
- I don't like big boys hitting us
206
00:09:37,041 --> 00:09:41,841
and a Prefect sending us out for nothing.
207
00:09:43,881 --> 00:09:45,321
- When he was seven,
208
00:09:45,321 --> 00:09:48,241
Paul was in care in a
children's home in London.
209
00:09:49,761 --> 00:09:52,761
Were you happy at the
children's home in England?
210
00:09:52,761 --> 00:09:54,121
- We didn't mind that really,
211
00:09:54,121 --> 00:09:56,161
because we didn't know what was going on
212
00:09:56,161 --> 00:09:58,041
'cause we were a bit young then.
213
00:09:58,041 --> 00:10:00,601
Well as far as I know,
my mother and father,
214
00:10:00,601 --> 00:10:02,601
well they separated originally, I think,
215
00:10:04,681 --> 00:10:06,761
they eventually got divorced,
216
00:10:06,761 --> 00:10:08,041
I went to the boarding school for one year
217
00:10:08,041 --> 00:10:10,281
and then we emigrated to Australia.
218
00:10:11,841 --> 00:10:14,521
- Paul settled with
his father and step-mother
219
00:10:14,521 --> 00:10:15,761
in a suburb of Melbourne.
220
00:10:16,961 --> 00:10:18,641
Would you like to get married, Paul?
221
00:10:20,561 --> 00:10:21,881
Tell me why not?
222
00:10:21,881 --> 00:10:22,761
- I don't like,
223
00:10:24,481 --> 00:10:27,161
say you had a wife,
224
00:10:29,201 --> 00:10:32,321
say you had to eat what they cooked you
225
00:10:32,321 --> 00:10:36,321
and say I don't like greens, well I don't.
226
00:10:37,161 --> 00:10:40,321
I know I'd prefer to be alone, really.
227
00:10:40,321 --> 00:10:42,081
I can't say I don't want to get married,
228
00:10:42,081 --> 00:10:43,081
'cause I think I do,
229
00:10:43,961 --> 00:10:45,641
but I want to be happily married
230
00:10:45,641 --> 00:10:47,921
and therefore I want to make sure I think.
231
00:10:47,921 --> 00:10:49,721
- What was it
that you fell in love with,
232
00:10:49,721 --> 00:10:50,801
what is it about him?
233
00:10:50,801 --> 00:10:52,881
- His helplessness, I suppose,
234
00:10:52,881 --> 00:10:55,081
it was the motherly instinct in me
235
00:10:55,081 --> 00:10:57,001
to pick him up and cuddle him,
236
00:10:57,001 --> 00:10:58,881
he's also very good-looking I think,
237
00:10:58,881 --> 00:11:00,481
but he doesn't agree with me.
238
00:11:01,721 --> 00:11:04,401
In the summer he's got this
cute little bum in shorts.
239
00:11:05,241 --> 00:11:06,961
I mean I can tell quite
a few stories here,
240
00:11:06,961 --> 00:11:09,321
but the one that really
irritates me the most
241
00:11:09,321 --> 00:11:11,481
is when we have an argument he
says, "That's it, leave me."
242
00:11:11,481 --> 00:11:14,561
and I say, "Fine, alright I will one day."
243
00:11:14,561 --> 00:11:17,241
We had our 20th wedding
anniversary this last Christmas,
244
00:11:17,241 --> 00:11:19,281
just before Christmas.
- Which is a life sentence.
245
00:11:19,281 --> 00:11:22,761
- Yeah everyone recons that we
should be out of jail by now.
246
00:11:22,761 --> 00:11:24,601
- To a certain extent we started thinking,
247
00:11:24,601 --> 00:11:27,161
well do we really know each other now,
248
00:11:27,161 --> 00:11:29,561
because you just get in the humdrum
249
00:11:29,561 --> 00:11:32,961
of going to work, coming back home.
250
00:11:32,961 --> 00:11:33,801
- Running kids here and there.
251
00:11:33,801 --> 00:11:35,721
- The kids here and there,
and I don't think you mean to,
252
00:11:35,721 --> 00:11:38,601
but you probably stop thinking
about each other a lot.
253
00:11:39,801 --> 00:11:41,521
- You know, it's still
the last person you want
254
00:11:41,521 --> 00:11:42,881
to see at night before you go to sleep
255
00:11:42,881 --> 00:11:46,361
and the first person you
want to see when you wake up.
256
00:11:46,361 --> 00:11:48,161
- Do you still
like to cuddle and love
257
00:11:48,161 --> 00:11:49,041
and all that sort of stuff?
258
00:11:49,041 --> 00:11:50,561
- Yeah, but not in public.
259
00:11:53,481 --> 00:11:55,001
- No, yes.
260
00:11:55,001 --> 00:11:57,241
- But is the
chemistry still there?
261
00:11:58,441 --> 00:11:59,281
- Yes.
262
00:12:00,201 --> 00:12:01,081
- You don't sound sure.
263
00:12:01,081 --> 00:12:03,441
- Well, we like to keep it private.
264
00:12:03,441 --> 00:12:04,361
- I had to wait for the answer.
265
00:12:05,721 --> 00:12:09,441
I find it hard to express
emotion most of the time,
266
00:12:09,441 --> 00:12:12,801
although I'm getting on
top of that more now.
267
00:12:14,281 --> 00:12:16,841
I mean just the simple
thing to say to Suzanne,
268
00:12:16,841 --> 00:12:19,001
you know, I love you, something like that.
269
00:12:19,001 --> 00:12:20,841
I mean I can tell you that,
270
00:12:21,761 --> 00:12:24,721
but I really haven't been
able to say it really
271
00:12:24,721 --> 00:12:26,881
to Sue, you know.
272
00:12:26,881 --> 00:12:27,841
It's a bit hard to talk about;
273
00:12:27,841 --> 00:12:30,401
I did end up having to get a bit of help.
274
00:12:30,401 --> 00:12:32,201
It wasn't directly due
to our relationship,
275
00:12:32,201 --> 00:12:34,241
it started at work unfortunately,
276
00:12:35,081 --> 00:12:37,041
which brought my self-esteem down
277
00:12:37,041 --> 00:12:39,321
which tended to affect everything else.
278
00:12:40,241 --> 00:12:42,521
I know the lack of confidence is there,
279
00:12:42,521 --> 00:12:46,921
it still applies to me
but I don't dwell on it,
280
00:12:46,921 --> 00:12:47,881
it's there and I have to
281
00:12:47,881 --> 00:12:49,441
put up with it.
- Yeah.
282
00:12:49,441 --> 00:12:51,201
I just think you take on a little bit more
283
00:12:51,201 --> 00:12:53,721
of each others' personality
because whenever I was decisive
284
00:12:53,721 --> 00:12:57,321
and I made a decision and say,
well let's do this because,
285
00:12:57,321 --> 00:12:59,481
Paul, not that he
couldn't make the decision
286
00:12:59,481 --> 00:13:01,481
but he had all these questions
to ask and I used to think,
287
00:13:01,481 --> 00:13:03,161
ah, stop asking questions
288
00:13:03,161 --> 00:13:05,801
and I suppose now I start
to questions myself,
289
00:13:05,801 --> 00:13:08,721
well maybe you should
ask the question so it is
290
00:13:08,721 --> 00:13:11,801
that bit of living with
the other personality.
291
00:13:11,801 --> 00:13:12,961
- I was gonna be a policeman
292
00:13:12,961 --> 00:13:17,681
but I thought how hard
it would be to join in.
293
00:13:17,681 --> 00:13:20,881
I was gonna be a Phys Ed
teacher but one of the teachers
294
00:13:20,881 --> 00:13:24,281
told me that you had to
get up in to university.
295
00:13:27,521 --> 00:13:29,841
- As a young
man, Paul spent many years
296
00:13:29,841 --> 00:13:33,561
in the building trade and then
moved on into factory work.
297
00:13:36,481 --> 00:13:38,601
- Okay the question was Gracie Field
298
00:13:38,601 --> 00:13:41,881
sang in the what of the moonlight.
299
00:13:41,881 --> 00:13:44,561
It's a retirement village
with independent living
300
00:13:44,561 --> 00:13:47,161
and then it's got a sister
living in the hostel
301
00:13:47,161 --> 00:13:48,921
which is mainly where I work.
302
00:13:48,921 --> 00:13:51,681
Which has got six letters,
Gracie Field sang.
303
00:13:51,681 --> 00:13:54,161
They have their own laundry,
it's a complete unit,
304
00:13:54,161 --> 00:13:56,441
they have their own lock up garage.
305
00:13:56,441 --> 00:13:58,481
So there's a couple of parcels there
306
00:13:58,481 --> 00:14:00,001
that probably need delivering.
307
00:14:00,001 --> 00:14:02,561
And that's why Paul's
there, I call him the man
308
00:14:02,561 --> 00:14:05,641
about the house at work because
he changes light globes,
309
00:14:05,641 --> 00:14:07,241
problems with their taps
they go and check it out,
310
00:14:07,241 --> 00:14:09,201
cleans the guttering, fixes
squeaky doors or doors
311
00:14:09,201 --> 00:14:12,641
that have broken 'cause the
village is now 24 years old
312
00:14:12,641 --> 00:14:15,481
so the maintenance is starting to gather.
313
00:14:15,481 --> 00:14:17,161
How are you going up there, Paul?
314
00:14:17,161 --> 00:14:19,441
- When the job came up, I said to Suzanne
315
00:14:19,441 --> 00:14:22,081
that if there was any problem at all
316
00:14:22,081 --> 00:14:25,001
with us working together then I'd leave.
317
00:14:25,001 --> 00:14:27,761
but so far we've found
it really quite good.
318
00:14:28,841 --> 00:14:30,081
Hello, how are ya?
319
00:14:30,081 --> 00:14:31,321
- I'm good, Paul, how are you?
320
00:14:31,321 --> 00:14:33,601
- I've probably always been
a little bit more relaxed
321
00:14:33,601 --> 00:14:35,641
around older people probably.
322
00:14:36,561 --> 00:14:37,601
I always liked older people
323
00:14:37,601 --> 00:14:39,321
as I was growing up, funny enough.
324
00:14:41,121 --> 00:14:43,081
- By the time they were 28,
325
00:14:43,081 --> 00:14:46,721
Paul and Sue had two
children, Katie and Robert.
326
00:14:48,561 --> 00:14:52,441
Katie did well at school
and went on to university,
327
00:14:52,441 --> 00:14:55,761
the first person in her
entire family ever to do so.
328
00:14:58,321 --> 00:15:00,161
Robert trained as a car mechanic.
329
00:15:01,881 --> 00:15:04,721
He met his wife Stacey
when they were teenagers,
330
00:15:04,721 --> 00:15:06,441
and now they have five children.
331
00:15:09,681 --> 00:15:12,281
- So there's Lucas, who is nine,
332
00:15:12,281 --> 00:15:15,001
then there's Ryan who's
about to turn seven
333
00:15:15,001 --> 00:15:16,241
at the end of this month.
334
00:15:17,641 --> 00:15:19,961
Then there's Hayley who's just turned five
335
00:15:19,961 --> 00:15:22,201
and she'll start school in the new year.
336
00:15:22,201 --> 00:15:25,001
Then there's Shane or
better known as Shane-o,
337
00:15:25,001 --> 00:15:28,281
and he is three this week.
338
00:15:28,281 --> 00:15:30,601
He's the joker, I think,
out of the lot of them,
339
00:15:30,601 --> 00:15:33,041
You know if he does
something and you laugh,
340
00:15:33,041 --> 00:15:35,161
he'll laugh with you, and he loves a joke.
341
00:15:36,321 --> 00:15:39,161
And then there's little
Troy that's 12 weeks old.
342
00:15:40,081 --> 00:15:41,481
I look back at my grandmother,
343
00:15:41,481 --> 00:15:44,201
and I've taken some
wonderful lessons from her.
344
00:15:44,201 --> 00:15:47,801
Grandma made us all feel that
we were her special number one
345
00:15:47,801 --> 00:15:49,721
but I really think that that's the secret
346
00:15:49,721 --> 00:15:53,201
to being a grandparent is
to make every child feel
347
00:15:53,201 --> 00:15:56,681
that they have someone
that they can relax with,
348
00:15:56,681 --> 00:15:58,241
be themselves with.
349
00:15:58,241 --> 00:16:01,441
Grandparents now have a
really huge part to play
350
00:16:01,441 --> 00:16:03,961
in their parents' lives
because the pressure's on them
351
00:16:03,961 --> 00:16:07,241
to work so much and
grandparents fill that hole
352
00:16:07,241 --> 00:16:10,161
of Mum not being home every day.
353
00:16:12,361 --> 00:16:15,401
So, Cynd, I've already
made the frog in the ponds,
354
00:16:15,401 --> 00:16:16,921
so there they are for the kiddies.
355
00:16:16,921 --> 00:16:19,121
- Great, your
Rich likes fairy bread.
356
00:16:20,041 --> 00:16:23,161
- Get some spiders and snakes in there.
357
00:16:23,161 --> 00:16:26,481
♪ Happy birthday to Shane-o ♪
358
00:16:26,481 --> 00:16:29,321
♪ Happy birthday to you ♪
- Ready, set, go!
359
00:16:32,201 --> 00:16:34,641
- It's a real struggle
for them financially,
360
00:16:34,641 --> 00:16:37,321
but at the same time, you
know, like all young kids
361
00:16:37,321 --> 00:16:39,201
there's areas that we look at and go,
362
00:16:39,201 --> 00:16:40,721
"Well, we didn't have that."
363
00:16:42,041 --> 00:16:43,561
I've got 23 new pieces
364
00:16:44,921 --> 00:16:49,081
and I don't know how many
halfpenny pieces I've got now.
365
00:16:49,081 --> 00:16:52,601
- Look there's a whole
stack of duckies over there.
366
00:16:52,601 --> 00:16:54,361
None of our kids have got credit cards.
367
00:16:54,361 --> 00:16:56,081
They don't live a credit life.
- Yet.
368
00:16:56,081 --> 00:16:59,881
- Yet, I mean they try and pay as they go,
369
00:16:59,881 --> 00:17:01,481
which is what we've always thought,
370
00:17:01,481 --> 00:17:04,481
and that's kept our
head above water, just.
371
00:17:05,641 --> 00:17:07,681
We always thought if we were
unemployed or out of work,
372
00:17:07,681 --> 00:17:10,401
if you own your house,
you've got a huge buffer,
373
00:17:10,401 --> 00:17:12,201
and Robert's of the same belief.
374
00:17:14,641 --> 00:17:17,761
- In their 20s,
Paul and Sue sold up,
375
00:17:17,761 --> 00:17:20,721
bought an old van and
travelled across Australia.
376
00:17:21,881 --> 00:17:23,041
- I think it brought
us closer together,
377
00:17:23,041 --> 00:17:24,481
because we really got to know each other
378
00:17:24,481 --> 00:17:26,681
and we relied on each other so much.
379
00:17:30,161 --> 00:17:32,041
- One of the most
important things we ever did
380
00:17:32,041 --> 00:17:34,481
with our children was spend time with 'em,
381
00:17:34,481 --> 00:17:36,921
and particularly when you've got holidays.
382
00:17:36,921 --> 00:17:38,561
You know, go camping with 'em.
383
00:17:41,841 --> 00:17:42,881
- ]sue] Well we went over to visit Katie
384
00:17:42,881 --> 00:17:44,561
'cause she's was working up in the top end
385
00:17:44,561 --> 00:17:47,521
of Yorkshire on a community farm.
386
00:17:47,521 --> 00:17:50,361
- We were missing her, we just
don't wanna tell her that.
387
00:17:52,561 --> 00:17:54,241
- Well they
miss you when you're away.
388
00:17:54,241 --> 00:17:55,801
Do you miss them when you're away?
389
00:17:55,801 --> 00:17:57,881
- I didn't miss 'em. like oh
God, I want to be around them
390
00:17:57,881 --> 00:17:59,961
but I thought about them a lot
391
00:17:59,961 --> 00:18:03,161
and appreciated them a lot
which is probably good.
392
00:18:03,161 --> 00:18:06,001
- So are the three
of you getting on well?
393
00:18:06,001 --> 00:18:06,961
- Yeah most of the time.
394
00:18:06,961 --> 00:18:09,761
- As long as we're not
in the car getting lost.
395
00:18:10,641 --> 00:18:11,881
- They're atrocious in the car.
396
00:18:11,881 --> 00:18:13,241
- But other than that we're good.
397
00:18:13,241 --> 00:18:14,361
- No, it is good.
398
00:18:15,321 --> 00:18:18,801
Well when we were in London
we went to Greenwich.
399
00:18:18,801 --> 00:18:22,041
It was built as a Maritime
Retirement Village almost.
400
00:18:22,041 --> 00:18:24,081
For the sailors from the Napoleonic War.
401
00:18:24,081 --> 00:18:26,001
So that was all really interesting
402
00:18:26,001 --> 00:18:28,721
because we work in retirement villages.
403
00:18:30,641 --> 00:18:31,481
And these buildings here
404
00:18:31,481 --> 00:18:33,961
were built before Australia
was even discovered.
405
00:18:33,961 --> 00:18:35,841
So that's pretty amazing.
406
00:18:37,481 --> 00:18:38,921
Katie was in awe of it.
407
00:18:38,921 --> 00:18:41,161
Because in her degree she did art history.
408
00:18:41,161 --> 00:18:43,001
So she just loved it.
409
00:18:43,881 --> 00:18:45,521
- What does university mean?
410
00:18:46,601 --> 00:18:47,641
- Are you going to try and point
411
00:18:47,641 --> 00:18:50,481
your grandchildren in to
education do you think?
412
00:18:50,481 --> 00:18:51,721
- You want them to have a good education
413
00:18:51,721 --> 00:18:52,721
no matter what they do.
414
00:18:52,721 --> 00:18:55,081
- Better than you had maybe?
415
00:18:55,081 --> 00:18:56,881
- But that's my fault really.
416
00:18:56,881 --> 00:19:00,121
I mean I just didn't
work hard enough I guess.
417
00:19:00,121 --> 00:19:01,921
You hope the school systems have changed
418
00:19:01,921 --> 00:19:03,201
to encourage kids to go on
419
00:19:03,201 --> 00:19:05,321
because one thing you
can't take away from people
420
00:19:05,321 --> 00:19:06,361
is an education.
421
00:19:08,241 --> 00:19:10,201
I mean the one thing
my daughter's taught me
422
00:19:10,201 --> 00:19:13,601
is it doesn't matter what you
do there's room for all of us.
423
00:19:13,601 --> 00:19:14,721
And even to the point where
424
00:19:14,721 --> 00:19:18,401
if you don't work you're
still teaching us something,
425
00:19:18,401 --> 00:19:20,601
you know your teaching
other people to care.
426
00:19:23,001 --> 00:19:25,801
- How are you
dealing with getting old?
427
00:19:25,801 --> 00:19:27,521
- I don't think
you really notice it.
428
00:19:27,521 --> 00:19:30,401
I mean you still think you're the same.
429
00:19:30,401 --> 00:19:32,001
Its maybe when you try to do
430
00:19:32,001 --> 00:19:35,241
something physically too
quickly and pull a muscle
431
00:19:35,241 --> 00:19:37,681
that just reminds you
that your getting older.
432
00:19:39,401 --> 00:19:41,001
- Are you fearful of the future?
433
00:19:41,001 --> 00:19:45,161
Of disability or unable to do things?
434
00:19:45,161 --> 00:19:46,641
- You hope that
you're going to be one of the
435
00:19:46,641 --> 00:19:50,081
fortunate ones and not get ill in any way.
436
00:19:52,481 --> 00:19:53,801
- Hey Ken.
437
00:19:53,801 --> 00:19:55,401
- Hi Paul, how are you?
438
00:19:55,401 --> 00:19:58,361
- Maybe where I work, I may
have helped that recently
439
00:19:58,361 --> 00:20:01,721
because people just tend
to get on with their lives
440
00:20:01,721 --> 00:20:02,601
no matter what.
441
00:20:03,681 --> 00:20:07,121
- And then that's the one with the palace.
442
00:20:07,121 --> 00:20:09,801
- You've got a
nice shot of a bin there.
443
00:20:09,801 --> 00:20:11,161
- That one's good you're getting better,
444
00:20:11,161 --> 00:20:12,321
you are getting better.
445
00:20:13,961 --> 00:20:16,281
- Do you
measure your life in terms
446
00:20:16,281 --> 00:20:18,241
of success and failure in any sense?
447
00:20:18,241 --> 00:20:19,601
- No not really.
448
00:20:19,601 --> 00:20:22,961
I mean I suppose the success
is that we're sitting here
449
00:20:22,961 --> 00:20:27,521
together and we haven't
had tragedy happen to us.
450
00:20:27,521 --> 00:20:29,841
- It's just about getting on with life
451
00:20:29,841 --> 00:20:34,121
and enjoying our
grandchildren, our children,
452
00:20:34,121 --> 00:20:35,001
and our friends.
453
00:20:35,001 --> 00:20:37,681
- Yeah, our goals of life have never--
454
00:20:37,681 --> 00:20:39,521
- And then work just gets in the way.
455
00:20:52,001 --> 00:20:54,601
- Well we pretend we've got swords
456
00:20:54,601 --> 00:20:57,401
and we make the noise
of the swords fighting
457
00:20:57,401 --> 00:21:00,081
and when somebody stabs us we go ahh.
458
00:21:01,721 --> 00:21:04,081
- Neil grew up
in a Liverpool suburb.
459
00:21:04,081 --> 00:21:07,441
And had dreams of going to
Oxford, but didn't get in.
460
00:21:08,841 --> 00:21:11,321
Instead he went to Aberdeen University
461
00:21:11,321 --> 00:21:13,601
but dropped out after the first term.
462
00:21:14,721 --> 00:21:18,241
At 21, Neil was working on a building site
463
00:21:18,241 --> 00:21:19,561
and living in a squat.
464
00:21:20,641 --> 00:21:23,561
- I would like to be somebody
in a position of importance
465
00:21:23,561 --> 00:21:25,201
and I've always thought this.
466
00:21:25,201 --> 00:21:27,361
But I don't think I'm
the right sort of person
467
00:21:27,361 --> 00:21:29,561
to carry the responsibility
for whatever it is.
468
00:21:29,561 --> 00:21:31,121
I always thought well I'd love,
469
00:21:33,761 --> 00:21:35,321
to be possibly even love to be in politics
470
00:21:35,321 --> 00:21:37,561
or something like this.
471
00:21:39,561 --> 00:21:42,841
- At 28 we found Neil homeless
472
00:21:42,841 --> 00:21:45,801
wandering around the
west coast of Scotland.
473
00:21:45,801 --> 00:21:46,801
- If the money runs out
474
00:21:46,801 --> 00:21:49,561
well then for a few days
there's nowhere to go to.
475
00:21:49,561 --> 00:21:51,201
That's all you go do.
476
00:21:51,201 --> 00:21:54,041
I simply have to find the
warmest shed I can find.
477
00:21:56,401 --> 00:21:59,601
- At 35, he was
living in a council estate
478
00:21:59,601 --> 00:22:03,121
on the most northerly part of
Britain, the Shetland Islands.
479
00:22:05,001 --> 00:22:08,241
What would you like to
be doing say in 7 years?
480
00:22:08,241 --> 00:22:09,481
- I can think
of all kinds of things
481
00:22:09,481 --> 00:22:10,321
that I'd like to be doing.
482
00:22:10,321 --> 00:22:14,601
The real question is what
am I likely to be doing.
483
00:22:15,841 --> 00:22:18,281
- What are
you likely to be doing?
484
00:22:18,281 --> 00:22:19,721
- That's a horrible question.
485
00:22:21,201 --> 00:22:23,761
I tend to think the most
likely answer is that
486
00:22:23,761 --> 00:22:26,641
I will be wandering homeless
around the streets of London.
487
00:22:30,761 --> 00:22:34,881
Can I just point out some of
the considerable disadvantages?
488
00:22:34,881 --> 00:22:36,721
First of all they are geographically--
489
00:22:36,721 --> 00:22:40,121
- At 42, Neil
had moved to London
490
00:22:40,121 --> 00:22:42,601
and was a Liberal Democrat
on Hackney Council.
491
00:22:43,681 --> 00:22:45,561
- While I was in
Shetland I felt very strongly
492
00:22:45,561 --> 00:22:48,281
that I should become involved in politics
493
00:22:48,281 --> 00:22:50,081
simply because I felt I was not achieving
494
00:22:50,081 --> 00:22:52,561
anything in the ways I really wanted to.
495
00:22:53,681 --> 00:22:56,641
- By 49, Neil had left London,
496
00:22:56,641 --> 00:22:59,561
moved to Cumbria in the
North West of England,
497
00:22:59,561 --> 00:23:01,681
and was a Liberal Democrat member
498
00:23:01,681 --> 00:23:04,041
of his local district Council.
499
00:23:04,041 --> 00:23:04,881
- Fairly simple.
500
00:23:04,881 --> 00:23:07,201
It was a committee decision,
a majority decision,
501
00:23:07,201 --> 00:23:09,641
his own group on the
establishment committee
502
00:23:09,641 --> 00:23:11,241
agreed with the decision.
503
00:23:11,241 --> 00:23:13,321
- Counsellor Hughes.
504
00:23:13,321 --> 00:23:15,161
- Well for Council Nines information,
505
00:23:15,161 --> 00:23:18,001
Counsellor Cook has
reconsidered his opinion
506
00:23:18,001 --> 00:23:19,601
that he entered at that meeting.
507
00:23:22,401 --> 00:23:25,561
Here we are in the centre of the ward
508
00:23:25,561 --> 00:23:27,721
I represent on the Council,
509
00:23:27,721 --> 00:23:30,241
these are our public toilets.
510
00:23:30,241 --> 00:23:32,961
I can assure you that
no more fierce battle
511
00:23:32,961 --> 00:23:35,521
has ever been fought either
on the playing fields
512
00:23:35,521 --> 00:23:37,681
or indeed on the battlefields of England
513
00:23:37,681 --> 00:23:40,321
to save what might appear
to be a comparatively
514
00:23:41,241 --> 00:23:43,761
insignificant local amenity.
515
00:23:43,761 --> 00:23:45,281
- It sounds vaguely comic
516
00:23:45,281 --> 00:23:47,401
but presumably it's not to you?
517
00:23:47,401 --> 00:23:48,961
- When you live in a small community
518
00:23:48,961 --> 00:23:52,561
you become very proud rightly
of the facilities here.
519
00:23:52,561 --> 00:23:55,241
And people are willing to play a part
520
00:23:55,241 --> 00:23:56,761
in helping to keep them going
521
00:23:56,761 --> 00:23:58,561
but they don't want to be ignored,
522
00:23:58,561 --> 00:24:00,321
they don't want to be marginalised.
523
00:24:00,321 --> 00:24:03,441
My strength is being able
to keep going really.
524
00:24:03,441 --> 00:24:05,961
And my weakness is not being able
525
00:24:05,961 --> 00:24:07,841
to take any positive course of action.
526
00:24:07,841 --> 00:24:10,841
No formal education can
prepare anybody for life.
527
00:24:10,841 --> 00:24:13,841
Only life can prepare you for what comes.
528
00:24:13,841 --> 00:24:15,801
And sooner or later you're going to
529
00:24:15,801 --> 00:24:17,921
have to cross certain barriers.
530
00:24:17,921 --> 00:24:20,961
There are a few things
I would like to say.
531
00:24:20,961 --> 00:24:22,001
And the first thing to say is
532
00:24:22,001 --> 00:24:27,001
there's been tremendous
goodwill towards the series.
533
00:24:27,521 --> 00:24:31,401
But I'm also aware that I'm
not the only participant
534
00:24:31,401 --> 00:24:34,721
who wants to set the record
straight in a number of ways.
535
00:24:36,121 --> 00:24:37,841
For so many millions of people,
536
00:24:37,841 --> 00:24:40,561
I'm here wearing my heart on my sleeve
537
00:24:40,561 --> 00:24:44,001
and they think they know
absolutely everything about me.
538
00:24:44,001 --> 00:24:46,041
There were countless people writing to me
539
00:24:46,041 --> 00:24:48,481
saying I know exactly how you feel.
540
00:24:48,481 --> 00:24:51,961
And actually from those letters
I would say none of them,
541
00:24:51,961 --> 00:24:55,881
not a single one of them, knew
exactly how I was feeling.
542
00:24:55,881 --> 00:24:58,001
- I've got a great deal of
respect for the Liberal Democrats
543
00:24:58,001 --> 00:25:00,161
but I think that I won't
vote for them this time--
544
00:25:00,161 --> 00:25:03,801
- Here in Cumbria I'm really
glad to be doing what I do,
545
00:25:03,801 --> 00:25:07,241
to be representing people
at a local political level,
546
00:25:07,241 --> 00:25:09,761
but in one sense I'm doing that
547
00:25:09,761 --> 00:25:12,441
because it's the only way I've
been able to make any money.
548
00:25:12,441 --> 00:25:16,961
I get a derisory amount of
money for being a Counsellor.
549
00:25:16,961 --> 00:25:20,721
I do enjoy the work but I've
been completely unsuccessful
550
00:25:20,721 --> 00:25:24,201
in trying to find a
paid career of any kind.
551
00:25:26,841 --> 00:25:29,841
I have always wanted to write as a career
552
00:25:29,841 --> 00:25:33,761
and indeed have written huge amounts
553
00:25:33,761 --> 00:25:37,241
and ironically despite
appearing in this programme,
554
00:25:37,241 --> 00:25:41,121
so frequently nobody has ever
shown any serious interest
555
00:25:41,121 --> 00:25:43,481
in any of the work I do and believe me
556
00:25:43,481 --> 00:25:45,801
it's a great deal more important to me
557
00:25:45,801 --> 00:25:48,401
than anything I can say
on a television screen.
558
00:25:50,641 --> 00:25:51,921
Even if somebody sent it back to me
559
00:25:51,921 --> 00:25:54,681
and said well I've read it
and its rubbish actually,
560
00:25:54,681 --> 00:25:56,081
that would be very demoralising
561
00:25:56,081 --> 00:25:58,521
but at least some interaction
would have taken place.
562
00:25:58,521 --> 00:26:03,521
There's hardly a day goes
by when I don't write.
563
00:26:03,601 --> 00:26:05,121
- It's a great gift isn't it?
564
00:26:06,961 --> 00:26:10,721
- It is but it shouldn't
be a sort of masturbation
565
00:26:10,721 --> 00:26:12,761
about which nobody else knows anything.
566
00:26:14,161 --> 00:26:17,201
- Neil Hughes is
the Liberal Democrat candidate.
567
00:26:17,201 --> 00:26:18,721
- I and the Liberal Democrats
568
00:26:18,721 --> 00:26:21,761
want to see a just and fair
society in which everyone--
569
00:26:21,761 --> 00:26:24,241
- In 2006, I was invited
to go to Australia
570
00:26:24,241 --> 00:26:29,241
to give a talk and the
chap who introduced me said
571
00:26:29,521 --> 00:26:33,961
Neil is clearly such a
profoundly motivated politician
572
00:26:33,961 --> 00:26:36,921
that we can all expect to
see him as Prime Minister
573
00:26:36,921 --> 00:26:38,001
of the United Kingdom in the future.
574
00:26:38,001 --> 00:26:40,081
Now this wasn't a joke I assure you
575
00:26:40,081 --> 00:26:41,921
he said this with absolute seriousness.
576
00:26:41,921 --> 00:26:46,921
Now it was ludicrous but
this is how wildly skewed
577
00:26:46,961 --> 00:26:48,601
the perceptions have become.
578
00:26:48,601 --> 00:26:50,001
I mean do you think I would really
579
00:26:50,001 --> 00:26:53,561
have been invited to
Australia if they were aware
580
00:26:53,561 --> 00:26:57,201
that I was someone who lives
on a few quid a week benefit
581
00:26:57,201 --> 00:26:59,161
and has as much chance
of changing the future
582
00:26:59,161 --> 00:27:01,081
of the United Kingdom as
583
00:27:03,241 --> 00:27:07,521
I don't know someone who's
serving a lifetime jail sentence.
584
00:27:15,081 --> 00:27:17,041
Yes I'd say I believed in God.
585
00:27:17,041 --> 00:27:18,241
- Are you religious?
586
00:27:19,481 --> 00:27:22,361
- Well I go to church with
my parents on Sundays.
587
00:27:22,361 --> 00:27:25,601
I don't know even now whether
I do believe in God or not.
588
00:27:25,601 --> 00:27:27,241
I've thought an awful
lot about it actually
589
00:27:27,241 --> 00:27:29,481
and I still don't know.
590
00:27:29,481 --> 00:27:31,721
- And how has
he been treating you?
591
00:27:32,961 --> 00:27:35,161
- Well I said to somebody last week
592
00:27:35,161 --> 00:27:38,241
that I preferred the Old
Testament to the New Testament
593
00:27:38,241 --> 00:27:41,921
because in the Old Testament
God is very unpredictable
594
00:27:43,641 --> 00:27:48,241
and that's I think how
I've seen him in my life.
595
00:27:48,241 --> 00:27:50,281
And Doreen as well and also--
596
00:27:50,281 --> 00:27:52,721
I was first a Lay Reader in London
597
00:27:53,881 --> 00:27:56,081
after completing a little more training
598
00:27:56,081 --> 00:27:58,561
I was relicensed by
the Bishop of Carlisle.
599
00:27:59,881 --> 00:28:04,321
Well good morning, welcome
to our service today.
600
00:28:04,321 --> 00:28:06,201
Just a couple of notices first.
601
00:28:08,601 --> 00:28:12,161
If you haven't already been
told the proposed pet show
602
00:28:12,161 --> 00:28:14,841
is unfortunately cancelled due--
603
00:28:14,841 --> 00:28:16,081
I'm a Lay Minister.
604
00:28:16,081 --> 00:28:18,881
I'm licenced to carry out
quite a number of functions
605
00:28:18,881 --> 00:28:23,201
which includes leading
services, preaching,
606
00:28:23,201 --> 00:28:24,521
taking part in the readings,
607
00:28:24,521 --> 00:28:26,681
helping to distribute
the Communion and so on.
608
00:28:26,681 --> 00:28:30,241
In fact I can do more or less
everything a Priest can do.
609
00:28:34,881 --> 00:28:37,881
To what extent am I a
good model for others?
610
00:28:37,881 --> 00:28:38,721
I don't know.
611
00:28:38,721 --> 00:28:42,481
On the other hand I am
angry that so many doors
612
00:28:42,481 --> 00:28:46,281
have been closed not just for
me but for so many people.
613
00:28:46,281 --> 00:28:48,241
I do feel nobody's listening out there,
614
00:28:48,241 --> 00:28:51,001
you know there seem to be few currents
615
00:28:51,001 --> 00:28:53,881
that are encouraging people
to stand up for their rights,
616
00:28:53,881 --> 00:28:57,481
not just their strict legal rights
617
00:28:57,481 --> 00:28:58,921
but their rights to be human.
618
00:29:00,881 --> 00:29:02,961
In the name of the Father, and of the Son,
619
00:29:02,961 --> 00:29:04,961
and of the Holy Spirit.
620
00:29:04,961 --> 00:29:09,481
I'm not unappreciative
of the honour its been
621
00:29:09,481 --> 00:29:11,881
to be able to serve the church,
622
00:29:11,881 --> 00:29:14,241
to be able to serve my community,
623
00:29:14,241 --> 00:29:16,961
and I want to make that absolutely clear
624
00:29:18,641 --> 00:29:21,401
and it's true that I think
it was Abercam who said
625
00:29:21,401 --> 00:29:24,561
life is what happens while
you're waiting for something else
626
00:29:25,881 --> 00:29:27,441
but it's not the sort of place
627
00:29:27,441 --> 00:29:31,321
where someone who wants to
change society is best employed.
628
00:29:31,321 --> 00:29:33,761
I would have thought
that was pretty obvious.
629
00:29:35,881 --> 00:29:39,081
In the winter if you live
in the country it would just
630
00:29:39,081 --> 00:29:42,201
be all wet and there wouldn't
be anything for miles around.
631
00:29:45,801 --> 00:29:48,041
We're a very quiet village.
632
00:29:48,041 --> 00:29:50,161
There's always room for more activity
633
00:29:50,161 --> 00:29:51,921
and for more people being involved
634
00:29:51,921 --> 00:29:55,761
but I think we do fairly well
as a diversity of groups.
635
00:29:57,521 --> 00:29:59,001
They're still trying to
persuade me to go in.
636
00:29:59,001 --> 00:30:02,161
Actually apparently Alan has
cried off at the last minute
637
00:30:02,161 --> 00:30:03,721
so there's just the two of them.
638
00:30:03,721 --> 00:30:05,721
I think it was Pascal,
639
00:30:05,721 --> 00:30:07,321
the great Philosopher and Mathematician,
640
00:30:07,321 --> 00:30:09,841
who said that if a man can live happily
641
00:30:09,841 --> 00:30:12,281
in his own living room
for most of his life
642
00:30:12,281 --> 00:30:14,721
then he's achieved the upmost
philosophical breakthrough
643
00:30:14,721 --> 00:30:17,601
and philosophically speaking
that's true but I can't.
644
00:30:17,601 --> 00:30:20,641
You only stick me in my living
room for one hour on my own
645
00:30:20,641 --> 00:30:22,161
and I want to be out doing something,
646
00:30:22,161 --> 00:30:23,881
I want to be out changing things.
647
00:30:25,601 --> 00:30:28,081
I have always had a nervous complaint.
648
00:30:28,081 --> 00:30:30,241
I've had it since I was 16.
649
00:30:30,241 --> 00:30:32,401
It was responsible for
my leaving university
650
00:30:32,401 --> 00:30:34,521
and for some of my difficulties with work.
651
00:30:35,801 --> 00:30:37,921
- Do you
worry about your sanity?
652
00:30:42,121 --> 00:30:44,121
- Other people sometimes worry about it.
653
00:30:45,401 --> 00:30:46,441
- Like who?
654
00:30:51,161 --> 00:30:55,721
- As I've said I sometimes
can be found behaving
655
00:30:55,721 --> 00:30:59,961
in an erratic fashion,
sometimes I get very frustrated,
656
00:30:59,961 --> 00:31:02,681
very angry for no apparent reason,
657
00:31:02,681 --> 00:31:04,321
for a reason which won't be apparent
658
00:31:04,321 --> 00:31:05,641
to other people around me.
659
00:31:07,001 --> 00:31:07,841
I don't see any way out.
660
00:31:07,841 --> 00:31:09,601
I've thought of everything
I possibly could,
661
00:31:09,601 --> 00:31:13,161
it seemed to me for a long time
that getting a reliable job
662
00:31:13,161 --> 00:31:15,401
and a nice place to live
would be the solution.
663
00:31:15,401 --> 00:31:16,641
Well I haven't succeeded.
664
00:31:18,001 --> 00:31:20,881
I can't see any immediate future at all.
665
00:31:20,881 --> 00:31:22,521
Although there have been times in my life
666
00:31:22,521 --> 00:31:25,761
when I've been suicidal,
that wasn't one of them.
667
00:31:28,281 --> 00:31:30,161
- So there have
been worse than what we saw?
668
00:31:30,161 --> 00:31:33,441
- Yes, but it's not for
this programme to expose my
669
00:31:33,441 --> 00:31:37,961
private feelings and yet many
people feel it has ultimately.
670
00:31:39,041 --> 00:31:41,881
Although this time round,
I've been far more candid
671
00:31:41,881 --> 00:31:45,601
than I perhaps ever have in the past.
672
00:31:49,881 --> 00:31:54,241
My formal contact with the
psychiatric establishment
673
00:31:54,241 --> 00:31:58,961
belongs mostly to my need in later teens
674
00:31:58,961 --> 00:32:01,721
and a short period in my early twenties.
675
00:32:01,721 --> 00:32:06,001
But I soon came to the opinion that
676
00:32:06,001 --> 00:32:08,081
I could help myself far better than
677
00:32:08,081 --> 00:32:12,801
those who were purporting to help me.
678
00:32:12,801 --> 00:32:14,441
But I was aware even then
679
00:32:14,441 --> 00:32:16,761
that a lot of the therapeutic
technique is about
680
00:32:16,761 --> 00:32:20,161
leading people to exactly
this conclusion if its unwell,
681
00:32:20,161 --> 00:32:23,721
so I'm not going down
the line of criticising
682
00:32:23,721 --> 00:32:25,081
the medical establishment.
683
00:32:26,801 --> 00:32:28,841
- But did you refuse to
684
00:32:28,841 --> 00:32:30,401
go in to any sort of treatment?
685
00:32:31,401 --> 00:32:35,561
- No, I did have contact.
686
00:32:38,081 --> 00:32:39,641
- But then you discontinued it?
687
00:32:39,641 --> 00:32:40,441
- Yes.
688
00:32:42,081 --> 00:32:44,761
- Do you still
think that was wise?
689
00:32:44,761 --> 00:32:45,601
- Yes.
690
00:32:51,721 --> 00:32:53,601
- Are you scared of getting old?
691
00:32:53,601 --> 00:32:55,921
- Yeah I don't want to
live to be that old.
692
00:32:55,921 --> 00:32:59,761
I think if I can reach
something like 70 or 75
693
00:32:59,761 --> 00:33:02,521
in reasonable health, that
will be quite enough for me.
694
00:33:04,921 --> 00:33:08,401
When I get married I don't
want to have any children
695
00:33:08,401 --> 00:33:12,921
because they are always
doing naughty things
696
00:33:12,921 --> 00:33:16,241
and making the whole house untidy.
697
00:33:16,241 --> 00:33:19,961
I always told myself that I
would never have children.
698
00:33:22,561 --> 00:33:23,401
- Why?
699
00:33:26,961 --> 00:33:31,241
- Well because children inherit
something from their parents
700
00:33:31,241 --> 00:33:35,081
and even if my wife were
the most high spirited,
701
00:33:35,081 --> 00:33:38,161
and ordinary, and normal of people
702
00:33:38,161 --> 00:33:41,041
the child would still
stand a very fair chance
703
00:33:41,041 --> 00:33:45,321
of being not totally full of happiness
704
00:33:45,321 --> 00:33:49,881
because of what he or she
will have inherited from me.
705
00:33:49,881 --> 00:33:51,841
- Have you ever really had
706
00:33:51,841 --> 00:33:55,041
a romantic, emotional relationship?
707
00:33:55,041 --> 00:33:56,321
- Well I've had several
708
00:33:56,321 --> 00:34:00,961
but the fact that I'm living alone still
709
00:34:00,961 --> 00:34:04,521
obviously portrays the fact
that none of them has endured.
710
00:34:08,241 --> 00:34:09,961
- Is there a reason for that?
711
00:34:11,601 --> 00:34:14,201
- Relationships always involve two people.
712
00:34:16,761 --> 00:34:18,881
- But the string of failures
713
00:34:18,881 --> 00:34:21,081
does that tell us something?
714
00:34:21,081 --> 00:34:22,281
- Well I'm sure it does.
715
00:34:23,561 --> 00:34:26,641
Any fool can see that, I'm
not saying you're a fool.
716
00:34:28,201 --> 00:34:30,121
- And what does it tell us?
717
00:34:30,121 --> 00:34:31,281
- It tells you what you like,
718
00:34:31,281 --> 00:34:32,361
it tells you that I haven't been
719
00:34:32,361 --> 00:34:34,241
successful in relationships.
720
00:34:34,241 --> 00:34:37,561
It may tell you that I'm intolerant
721
00:34:37,561 --> 00:34:41,681
but more likely it tells you
that I don't have the capacity
722
00:34:41,681 --> 00:34:44,841
for making a relationship work.
723
00:34:44,841 --> 00:34:47,881
But I must stress again
that it does take two.
724
00:34:47,881 --> 00:34:51,641
I have never walked out of
any relationship with anybody.
725
00:34:53,401 --> 00:34:56,641
It sounds like ghostly coloured people.
726
00:34:56,641 --> 00:35:01,561
You think of a purple person
with red eyes and yellow feet,
727
00:35:01,561 --> 00:35:05,761
it can't really think of
what they really look like.
728
00:35:06,881 --> 00:35:09,281
I find it hard to believe
that I was ever like that
729
00:35:09,281 --> 00:35:11,561
but there's the evidence.
730
00:35:11,561 --> 00:35:14,321
And probably when I was 7 I
just lived in a wonderful world
731
00:35:14,321 --> 00:35:16,801
where everything was sensational on,
732
00:35:16,801 --> 00:35:19,441
I could be happy and I could
be miserable the next minute.
733
00:35:23,001 --> 00:35:24,601
- What makes you happy?
734
00:35:26,241 --> 00:35:29,961
- Happy is a difficult word,
how many people are happy?
735
00:35:29,961 --> 00:35:32,601
Perhaps we're most happy
when we're not aware of it
736
00:35:32,601 --> 00:35:37,601
and enjoying a relaxed
meal with some friends,
737
00:35:38,121 --> 00:35:39,641
just being with friends.
738
00:35:39,641 --> 00:35:42,161
I think the few weekends in the year
739
00:35:42,161 --> 00:35:43,721
when I'm lucky to be able to go and stay
740
00:35:43,721 --> 00:35:46,561
with some of my long term
friends I'm really happy.
741
00:35:46,561 --> 00:35:49,321
I can think of hardly anything better than
742
00:35:49,321 --> 00:35:51,961
walking across the
fields when we just chat
743
00:35:51,961 --> 00:35:54,521
about the things we're both interested in
744
00:35:54,521 --> 00:35:58,601
and our aspirations and I
think that's the noblest
745
00:35:58,601 --> 00:36:02,401
and in many ways most
satisfying of relationships
746
00:36:02,401 --> 00:36:03,241
you could possibly have.
747
00:36:03,241 --> 00:36:06,041
How it would be if we live
next door to each other?
748
00:36:06,041 --> 00:36:07,641
I don't know it might be very different
749
00:36:07,641 --> 00:36:10,441
but maybe the joy in some relationships
750
00:36:10,441 --> 00:36:13,361
is that you see some
people only infrequently.
751
00:36:26,681 --> 00:36:28,681
- I don't think you
want to go to university
752
00:36:28,681 --> 00:36:30,241
if you want to be an astronaut.
753
00:36:31,121 --> 00:36:31,961
Watch this.
754
00:36:32,841 --> 00:36:35,121
- Peter and Neil
were childhood friends
755
00:36:35,121 --> 00:36:36,481
growing up in Liverpool.
756
00:36:38,161 --> 00:36:40,481
Peter went to a comprehensive school
757
00:36:40,481 --> 00:36:43,441
and went on to get a history
degree from London University.
758
00:36:45,121 --> 00:36:47,441
- I would like to think that
democracy is here to stay,
759
00:36:47,441 --> 00:36:48,481
perhaps we haven't got full democracy.
760
00:36:48,481 --> 00:36:52,721
In fact we probably haven't,
it's a pretty good system.
761
00:36:52,721 --> 00:36:54,121
- Are you surprised
762
00:36:54,121 --> 00:36:55,961
by the way England's been governed?
763
00:36:55,961 --> 00:36:57,921
- I'm not surprised with the people
764
00:36:57,921 --> 00:36:59,561
that govern it at the moment, no.
765
00:37:02,521 --> 00:37:04,281
I've even stopped being amazed.
766
00:37:05,601 --> 00:37:06,561
- Why?
767
00:37:06,561 --> 00:37:07,961
- Why?
768
00:37:07,961 --> 00:37:10,961
Well I don't want to get
dragged in to party politics
769
00:37:10,961 --> 00:37:14,001
you know basically this
is the most incompetent,
770
00:37:14,001 --> 00:37:16,761
uncaring bloody shower we've ever had.
771
00:37:17,881 --> 00:37:19,801
- After 28UP,
772
00:37:19,801 --> 00:37:22,361
Peter decided not to continue in the film.
773
00:37:23,481 --> 00:37:25,161
- Why did you pull out?
774
00:37:26,441 --> 00:37:29,041
- I pulled out because of
775
00:37:30,601 --> 00:37:35,321
the responses and the reactions that
776
00:37:36,641 --> 00:37:40,121
my participation drew
in the weeks afterwards.
777
00:37:41,081 --> 00:37:43,761
Particularly in the tabloid press.
778
00:37:43,761 --> 00:37:46,081
They decided they were going to portray me
779
00:37:46,081 --> 00:37:51,081
as the angry young Red
in Thatcher's England.
780
00:37:51,561 --> 00:37:54,681
Well it's just the principle that's all.
781
00:37:54,681 --> 00:37:56,081
I think it was articulating at the time
782
00:37:56,081 --> 00:37:59,401
what a lot of people my
age and my background
783
00:37:59,401 --> 00:38:02,481
were thinking and I was an easy target.
784
00:38:05,121 --> 00:38:07,921
But I was absolutely taken aback,
785
00:38:07,921 --> 00:38:09,681
completely genuinely shocked at
786
00:38:10,641 --> 00:38:14,801
what I saw as the level
of malice and ill will
787
00:38:14,801 --> 00:38:16,881
directed towards me.
788
00:38:16,881 --> 00:38:18,961
Until you have experienced it yourself
789
00:38:18,961 --> 00:38:23,241
you can't begin to
appreciate how it feels.
790
00:38:25,601 --> 00:38:29,161
- So now your
back, why did you come back?
791
00:38:29,161 --> 00:38:32,201
- I feel a lot happier with myself,
792
00:38:32,201 --> 00:38:36,801
happier in my own skin, and
then secondly more specifically
793
00:38:36,801 --> 00:38:40,921
because I want to promote the
music and the band I'm in.
794
00:38:40,921 --> 00:38:44,201
♪ It was a goers town ♪
795
00:38:44,201 --> 00:38:46,001
- And what are you called?
796
00:38:46,001 --> 00:38:48,481
- We're called The Good Intensions.
797
00:38:48,481 --> 00:38:53,481
♪ But when he hit that bang ♪
798
00:38:53,881 --> 00:38:56,601
I'd always played in rock bands,
799
00:38:56,601 --> 00:38:58,921
some of the spectacularly bad bands.
800
00:39:00,361 --> 00:39:03,681
What really got me into this music was
801
00:39:03,681 --> 00:39:06,521
being exposed to the
music of Grant Parsons.
802
00:39:06,521 --> 00:39:09,201
Because way back in the day I
was a big Elvis Costello fan
803
00:39:09,201 --> 00:39:11,081
and I read an interview
with him in which he said
804
00:39:11,081 --> 00:39:12,481
well if you think I'm a good song writer
805
00:39:12,481 --> 00:39:14,761
listen to this guy Grant Parsons.
806
00:39:14,761 --> 00:39:16,401
It was almost like an epiphany.
807
00:39:16,401 --> 00:39:18,161
It was like I was hearing the music
808
00:39:18,161 --> 00:39:21,561
I'd been waiting to hear all my life.
809
00:39:21,561 --> 00:39:25,681
Once Kellen Zeffer said she loved me
810
00:39:27,921 --> 00:39:32,761
and I'm going to marry her when I grow up.
811
00:39:32,761 --> 00:39:34,961
It doesn't appeal to me
at all at the moment.
812
00:39:34,961 --> 00:39:36,041
I'm just gone 20.
813
00:39:37,161 --> 00:39:39,241
I haven't even been abroad yet in my life.
814
00:39:40,561 --> 00:39:43,121
So no way am I going to settled down.
815
00:39:43,121 --> 00:39:44,121
- So what do you want to do?
816
00:39:44,121 --> 00:39:46,961
Do you want to sort of record me and Pete,
817
00:39:46,961 --> 00:39:49,441
to record what we are doing
and you'll work round it?
818
00:39:49,441 --> 00:39:50,241
- I think that's good.
819
00:39:50,241 --> 00:39:51,121
- We were working
in an office together
820
00:39:51,121 --> 00:39:52,961
when we joined the office band
821
00:39:52,961 --> 00:39:55,081
and that's how we got to know each other.
822
00:39:55,081 --> 00:39:58,601
- So Gabby, was
it love at first sight?
823
00:39:58,601 --> 00:40:00,561
- Well I had a sneaking
suspicion that Pete liked me
824
00:40:00,561 --> 00:40:04,121
'cause he was really rude and
sarcastic to me all the time
825
00:40:04,121 --> 00:40:06,681
so I thought oh, I think
he's probably quite keen.
826
00:40:06,681 --> 00:40:08,481
- No, that's not true.
827
00:40:11,601 --> 00:40:14,001
- You've always
played together since then?
828
00:40:14,001 --> 00:40:15,321
- Yeah more or less.
829
00:40:15,321 --> 00:40:18,281
We probably stopped for a while
when the kids were little.
830
00:40:21,201 --> 00:40:23,601
- Our boy's 19, our daughter is 16.
831
00:40:24,561 --> 00:40:26,241
- And how are they doing?
832
00:40:26,241 --> 00:40:28,281
- They're great, they're really good.
833
00:40:28,281 --> 00:40:29,161
- They're remarkably well.
834
00:40:29,161 --> 00:40:31,241
Our son is in his first year at university
835
00:40:32,441 --> 00:40:35,521
and our daughter is
coming up to her GCSE's.
836
00:40:38,961 --> 00:40:43,961
Once you have your own kids
you have this huge realisation
837
00:40:44,041 --> 00:40:46,161
of how your own parents felt about you
838
00:40:46,161 --> 00:40:48,001
and what they did for you.
839
00:40:48,001 --> 00:40:49,201
- What's the greatest gift
840
00:40:49,201 --> 00:40:50,961
that a parent can give a child?
841
00:40:50,961 --> 00:40:53,881
- It's that unstinting love
and support and their time.
842
00:40:54,801 --> 00:40:58,361
The time I think children
value that more than anything.
843
00:40:58,361 --> 00:41:02,561
You giving unconditionally,
you giving them your time.
844
00:41:02,561 --> 00:41:04,481
Well if I can't be an astronaut
845
00:41:04,481 --> 00:41:08,721
I'd like to be a Bridewell
Sergeant in the police force
846
00:41:08,721 --> 00:41:10,081
like my dad is.
847
00:41:10,081 --> 00:41:13,881
- So are you
under pressure to get a job?
848
00:41:13,881 --> 00:41:15,641
- Yeah I suspect I am from the parents,
849
00:41:15,641 --> 00:41:16,881
they keep dropping hints.
850
00:41:17,841 --> 00:41:21,121
Teachers are under valued and under rated
851
00:41:21,121 --> 00:41:23,921
and the whole the system
is beginning to crumble.
852
00:41:23,921 --> 00:41:25,401
People outside of it don't realise that
853
00:41:25,401 --> 00:41:30,241
but it is and it's very disillusioning.
854
00:41:30,241 --> 00:41:35,241
I left teaching not long
after that programme.
855
00:41:35,721 --> 00:41:39,001
It was actually nothing
to do with the programme.
856
00:41:40,041 --> 00:41:43,721
That was a misunderstanding at the time
857
00:41:43,721 --> 00:41:45,721
I think which took hold in the press.
858
00:41:45,721 --> 00:41:48,761
I'd been planning to leave teaching anyway
859
00:41:48,761 --> 00:41:52,201
and I just didn't see the long
term future in it for myself
860
00:41:53,441 --> 00:41:55,841
and I just thought I had to be
honest with myself about that
861
00:41:55,841 --> 00:41:58,801
and honest to the kids I
was teaching at the time
862
00:41:58,801 --> 00:42:01,001
and move on to something else.
863
00:42:01,001 --> 00:42:03,401
- It might be better to start
off at the end of the line.
864
00:42:03,401 --> 00:42:05,721
- After
teaching Peter studied law
865
00:42:05,721 --> 00:42:07,881
and joined the Civil Service.
866
00:42:07,881 --> 00:42:09,361
Gabby also works there.
867
00:42:10,881 --> 00:42:15,881
- The Civil Service despite
changes currently taking place
868
00:42:16,601 --> 00:42:21,081
is still a comparatively
a pretty decent employer.
869
00:42:21,081 --> 00:42:21,961
So shall we do one of the new ones?
870
00:42:21,961 --> 00:42:24,801
- What area of the
Civil Service are you in?
871
00:42:24,801 --> 00:42:26,001
- Department
for Work and Pensions.
872
00:42:26,001 --> 00:42:27,361
- So you've changed the key in that one?
873
00:42:27,361 --> 00:42:29,961
- I've changed the key to an
F sharp, sorry about that.
874
00:42:29,961 --> 00:42:30,761
- Oh, marvellous.
875
00:42:30,761 --> 00:42:32,481
- You've got MP3, I assume.
876
00:42:32,481 --> 00:42:35,961
- When Pete writes he
often wants to share that,
877
00:42:35,961 --> 00:42:39,201
and at a fairly early stage,
talk about what he's writing
878
00:42:39,201 --> 00:42:41,161
and if it's no good I have to tell him.
879
00:42:42,201 --> 00:42:44,801
And that's quite difficult isn't it?
880
00:42:44,801 --> 00:42:46,801
- I'm sure it is, yeah.
881
00:42:46,801 --> 00:42:51,081
♪ She was running down
roads I didn't know ♪
882
00:42:51,081 --> 00:42:53,921
- So when we started work
on the album we're doing now
883
00:42:53,921 --> 00:42:58,721
Pete said to me I've got 120
song ideas I want to go through
884
00:42:58,721 --> 00:43:00,241
and I said but of those 120
885
00:43:00,241 --> 00:43:02,121
really we need to get it down to about 10
886
00:43:02,121 --> 00:43:04,881
so I am going to have to tell
you that 110 are no good.
887
00:43:06,241 --> 00:43:08,321
- How do you take criticism?
888
00:43:08,321 --> 00:43:11,441
- Well I think I take it
better than I used to.
889
00:43:11,441 --> 00:43:13,841
- That's not setting the
bar very high though is it?
890
00:43:13,841 --> 00:43:14,801
- No.
891
00:43:14,801 --> 00:43:17,201
- What have been
for you the best times?
892
00:43:17,201 --> 00:43:20,281
- Tommy Smith scoring
the second goal in Rome.
893
00:43:20,281 --> 00:43:23,801
Definitely one of the all times.
894
00:43:23,801 --> 00:43:25,361
- Which game was that?
895
00:43:25,361 --> 00:43:28,081
Which game was that?
896
00:43:28,081 --> 00:43:30,121
That European Cup Final 1977.
897
00:43:31,801 --> 00:43:33,721
That's still up there by the way.
898
00:43:33,721 --> 00:43:35,361
- But along with what?
899
00:43:35,361 --> 00:43:42,481
- But well getting married
for the second time,
900
00:43:42,881 --> 00:43:44,881
and having two children
901
00:43:46,801 --> 00:43:49,921
have been hugely significant
moments in my life.
902
00:43:49,921 --> 00:43:51,641
- What do you want out of life?
903
00:43:51,641 --> 00:43:53,361
- The satisfaction of knowing
904
00:43:55,321 --> 00:43:58,241
that I've left some sort of imprint
905
00:43:59,161 --> 00:44:01,121
rather than just lived out my life.
906
00:44:03,281 --> 00:44:08,281
♪ You've been gone for
so long eventually ♪
907
00:44:09,841 --> 00:44:14,841
♪ No one's looking for you anymore ♪
908
00:44:15,641 --> 00:44:18,481
I hesitate to say to think
I have made my mark now
909
00:44:18,481 --> 00:44:21,201
because that sounds horrendously vain
910
00:44:22,321 --> 00:44:27,321
but I've created a body of work
of which I feel very proud.
911
00:44:27,961 --> 00:44:31,721
I feel I've achieved
something of lasting value.
912
00:44:34,081 --> 00:44:36,041
And in the last two or three years
913
00:44:36,041 --> 00:44:39,761
we have began to become
reasonably successful
914
00:44:39,761 --> 00:44:42,001
in terms of critical responses.
915
00:44:42,961 --> 00:44:47,961
We were voted the UK's
Americana Act of the Year
916
00:44:49,041 --> 00:44:51,001
at the British Country Music Awards.
917
00:44:53,081 --> 00:44:54,841
From time to time like anybody else,
918
00:44:54,841 --> 00:44:57,641
I'll look back and think
I wish I hadn't done that
919
00:44:57,641 --> 00:45:00,161
or I wish I'd done that differently
920
00:45:00,161 --> 00:45:04,721
but I don't think really life
is there to be regretted.
921
00:45:05,841 --> 00:45:07,921
Life is there to be lived.
922
00:45:07,921 --> 00:45:09,961
And I think the most important thing
923
00:45:09,961 --> 00:45:13,841
is to feel that by enlarge you
haven't compromised too much
924
00:45:14,681 --> 00:45:17,041
and that you've moved your life on where
925
00:45:17,041 --> 00:45:18,881
you want your life to go.
926
00:45:31,721 --> 00:45:33,401
- And what
about the other children?
927
00:45:34,241 --> 00:45:35,201
Where are they now?
928
00:45:36,241 --> 00:45:37,721
What are they doing?
929
00:45:37,721 --> 00:45:40,441
- I would like to get
married when I grow up.
930
00:45:41,521 --> 00:45:44,761
I mean I know its not possible
to be happy all the time
931
00:45:44,761 --> 00:45:47,321
but as much of the time that was possible.
932
00:45:47,321 --> 00:45:49,881
- When I grow up I'd like to
933
00:45:49,881 --> 00:45:53,201
find out all about the moon and all that.
934
00:45:54,521 --> 00:45:55,921
It would seem really ridiculous
935
00:45:55,921 --> 00:45:58,081
to any of my friends who watched this
936
00:45:58,081 --> 00:46:01,041
if I said Christ aren't I
a great success look at me.
937
00:46:01,041 --> 00:46:04,441
- When I get married I'd
like to have two children.
938
00:46:04,441 --> 00:46:05,561
I don't like babies.
939
00:46:06,961 --> 00:46:10,561
- I feel like bundling when
there's already a fight.
940
00:46:11,881 --> 00:46:15,441
I think I admire people
with great determination.
941
00:46:15,441 --> 00:46:18,641
Like people who have just
come up from nothing.
75022
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