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{\an8}Previously on ABANDONED...
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{\an8}It was after eleven
when we started our videocall.
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{\an8}Look, this is your mother.
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{\an8}Wow.
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{\an8}This is your father.
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{\an8}It was a weird feeling.
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{\an8}Really good.
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{\an8}I fell apart.
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{\an8}We knew that they were involved in...
illegal activities.
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{\an8}An officer getting shot
forced my parents to flee to France.
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{\an8}Everyone thought they were dead, vanished.
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{\an8}Something serious happened
to your mom and dad.
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{\an8}Who is the couple with my parents?
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{\an8}I believe it's Denis.
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{\an8}I felt again like
I was going down a dead-end street.
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{\an8}We put together an investigative team,
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{\an8}and they focused on trying to find
the best friend of Elvira's father,
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{\an8}Miguel Álvarez Orgambide.
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{\an8}Do you know what happened to my father?
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If I've come this far,
I think I can go even further.
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Honestly, I want to know so badly...
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obviously with a degree of caution,
you know, but...
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I know I'll to get to the bottom of this.
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{\an8}She's made a lot of progress. A lot.
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{\an8}The day Elvira's interview was broadcast
on RAC1,
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the only thing she knew about her past was
that her name was Elvira.
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I don't know. It still really affects me
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when my aunt talks about my grandma.
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When she died, she said,
"I won't get to see them again."
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Something like that always makes you
wonder, "What if they're alive?"
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And if they got themselves mixed up
in something much bigger than we imagined?
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And someone definitely did something
that they don't want discovered.
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It could be.
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Do you know what happened to my father?
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ABANDONED
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Ramón Martos Sánchez...
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has always been quite a rascal.
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Quite a rascal?
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Tell me, tell me stories about my father.
What was he like? I'd find it amusing.
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I lived in one room,
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{\an8}and he lived somewhere else.
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{\an8}And we were going on a trip...
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and he stayed here.
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Where were you going?
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- To Salamanca.
- Salamanca.
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We were scoundrels.
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And what did you guys do?
Break into houses?
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We'd ring the doorbell.
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We'd ring two or three times,
and if nobody opened the door, we would.
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We used a huge screwdriver.
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You'd push it in a little.
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You pushed like this
and the lock would fall off the frame.
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You undid the screws
and it'd fall on the floor.
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- Who were you with? It was you, my father...
- There were four of us.
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"The Gold Thieves of Andalucía,"
they called us.
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Gold Thieves of Andalucía... Wow.
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- From then on, no...
- Not anymore...
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I haven't seen... Nobody joined our...
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Well, my brother said
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that a man very close to my dad left us.
His name was Denis, Tenis...
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Maybe Toni.
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We figured it could also be Toni.
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I have no clue.
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And are all the people
who used to come around here dead?
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All of them.
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- You're the only one left?
- Me, and I'll never die.
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I'm here forever.
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Look. My dad.
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Gap-toothed.
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Gap-toothed with fewer teeth
than a turkey.
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And do you know why my dad left?
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He left because they'd done a job.
I don't know if it was in Cádiz or what.
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They'd shot at an officer, or whatever.
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So he went to France.
Later, I found out that
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he escaped
from the police station in France.
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He cut a hole in the ceiling and escaped.
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From there,
when he escaped, he went to Belgium.
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Yeah.
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I don't know how I found out about it,
or who told me about it.
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I never heard anything else.
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When I found my family,
the whole family told me...
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- "We thought you guys were dead."
- It's really weird.
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He's shown no signs of life.
I don't think he's hiding or anything.
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- No?
- No, I don't think so.
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- You don't think it's possible?
- No way.
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He's gonna leave his kids
and not come back? No way, man.
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I don't think so. It had to be
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a settling of scores
or something like that.
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Maybe he crossed paths with the mafia
and they got rid of him.
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- Yeah...
- That could be.
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Richi and I decided to go back to Madrid
to talk to my aunt, Felisa,
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so she could tell us about my mother,
because we barely remember her.
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- What was she like?
- Your mom?
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- Yeah.
- Really nice.
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Yeah?
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{\an8}Not nice, wonderful.
That's why I've told you...
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you should always remember that your mom
did not abandon you.
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My sister felt very sorry for your father.
We talked about it on the phone.
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That was the last time
I spoke to my sister.
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I asked her about your dad, "How's Ramón?"
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Crying, she said, "He's really unwell.
He's got tuberculosis.
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Look, everything's screwed up."
That's how my sister talked.
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She said, "He took a sheet off the bed
and wanted to escape out the window."
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But I remember that.
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We went to see him.
I think it was in a hospital.
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Our father was inside, in a room,
and they opened a window.
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He was on the second floor.
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He took two sheets.
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The dude climbed down and ran away.
Just like that.
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He was an escape artist, man.
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And we were still there, in the room.
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And I thought it was a dream.
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Carmen managed to contact someone
who might have some information.
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Her name is María Elvira and
she's our cousin who lives in Alicante.
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She's the daughter of my aunt, Antonia,
my father's sister,
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whose the same person
who took us in in Paris,
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when the shooting happened
and they had to flee Spain.
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I tried to contact her via WhatsApp.
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"Hi, I'm Elvira, your cousin,
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the daughter of Ramón and Rosario.
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I'd like to talk to you."
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Click. She blocked me.
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Great.
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{\an8}I managed to talk to María Elvira,
but... nothing.
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{\an8}She blocked me, didn't want to cooperate...
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She was unpleasant.
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So, I decided to pluck up the courage
and show up on her doorstep.
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- Yes?
- Hi, good morning, María Elvira?
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- Yes, who is it?
- Hi, look, I'm Elvira.
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I'm your cousin. I live in Barcelona
and I'm the daughter of Ramón and Rosario.
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Yes, and how did you get my address?
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Well, I looked you up on the Internet
and then a woman named Carmen...
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- Okay, I'll let you in and we'll talk.
- Thanks.
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You've got it rough, huh?
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I told her, that Carmen woman,
that I didn't know anything.
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I said I was sorry.
In other words, "Don't bother me."
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Shit, don't bother me,
because I really don't know anything.
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- When my parents showed up at...
- Yes.
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- At my parents' house.
- ...at your parents' house.
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Did you already know they existed?
Was it the first time you'd heard of them?
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Or did you already...?
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{\an8}I knew my mother had family.
I knew them only by name,
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{\an8}since my mom talked about them a lot.
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- But you'd never seen them.
- No.
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No, I'd seen them in my mom's photos.
She had lots of photos.
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When our parents fled in 1978,
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my aunt and uncle, María Elvira's parents,
took them into their home in Paris.
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Ramón was born in that house,
according to his birth certificate.
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María Elvira was a teenager at that time,
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but she remembers our parents perfectly.
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Do you think Rosario was also involved?
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She definitely knew about it.
I mean, she lived with him.
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- She knew what he did and brought home.
- Yeah.
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They knew
what their husbands did for a living.
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- And they often went with them.
- Yeah, I was referring to...
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- You can know what someone does, but...
- That couple...
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It was a business meeting among men,
even if the ladies were present.
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It was a business meeting.
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Those nighttime meetings weren't just
about "making you a quick drink."
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Something else was going on,
and they had their meetings at night.
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María Elvira gives me good vibes, I mean...
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She's a bit peculiar
and a bit over the top in some ways.
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The only thing she'd kept of my parents'
was an old scale.
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This was on the top floor,
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which we had to empty quickly.
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Because when your dad left,
and he left with the bare minimum.
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He couldn't take anything with him, so,
he told me I could keep this for myself.
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That's what he used.
He used this to weigh things.
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- He would weigh jewelry, diamonds...
- Diamonds, gold...
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Gold, whatever.
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Not drugs. I, in my opinion,
your father, for example...
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I can't guarantee it, but, in my opinion,
your dad didn't touch drugs.
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The last time I saw him,
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he wanted to step back from the scene
he was in. He wanted to do his last job.
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His "last job" could've been a robbery or...
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whatever he felt like doing.
Not robbing a bank.
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- So, do whatever...
- Something really big.
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Sure, something big to retire for good.
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He didn't want to do jobs anymore.
He wanted to live his life.
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If he'd died
of natural causes or something,
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it'd have to be in the registry, right?
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00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,800
If it happened another way,
they wouldn't ever find the bodies.
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00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,200
So, what are you going to find?
Zero. Niet.
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00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,240
But you might find someone
who knows the story and can tell you,
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- "Yes, I knew them and..."
- Denis.
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They're gonna tell you
what many people will,
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that they saw something,
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but they'll never tell you
what hole they buried them in.
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- Denis, Tenis, whatever, that's the one.
- Yes.
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00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,000
He knows. He's one of the few
who knows everything that happened.
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00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,120
Yeah, that man drove us to the station
and left us there.
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00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:32,240
The one who left you.
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00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,920
But why was he the one who left you?
Did he have orders?
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- If we find him, we'll find out.
- Sure.
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It's nice seeing you guys,
and now I'd like to stay in contact.
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- Of course.
- For anything at all.
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Don't block us, okay?
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00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:50,720
But tell Carmen not to call me again.
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You don't know your family
and suddenly they leave.
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00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,000
- Thanks.
- Thank you.
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00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,160
The police have asked French authorities
for information about my parents.
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00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,480
And we discover that my dad was in prison.
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00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,520
{\an8}Surprisingly, we got some information
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{\an8}from the French government
that was very significant.
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00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,440
They report that Mr. Martos
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was sentenced for robbery and forgery
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00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,680
and served a sentence
in La Santé Prison in Paris
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from January to September,
more or less, of 1979.
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00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:31,280
The French government told us they
have no record of any address for him.
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00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,280
They also told us there's no record of any
family or dependents. He was single.
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His family was in Spain.
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That's the only information they had,
apart from a mug shot of Mr. Martos.
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00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,600
With that, we were able to confirm
that he was this missing person.
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00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:48,240
All the information we'd gotten
from our family members up until now
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00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,920
was that
he'd never been imprisoned in France.
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00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:57,800
There he had cellmates,
fellow prisoners, lawyers...
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00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,160
I'm sure some family member visited him.
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00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,440
Knowing my dad was imprisoned in La Santé,
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we decided to travel to Paris
to visit the prison
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00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:10,880
and meet with the warden.
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00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,720
They took us to an old cell
like the one my dad was in
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for ten months in 1979.
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The warden of La Santé, Bruno Clement,
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spent some time explaining
our father's case to us.
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00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,440
When a person is arrested,
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are records from when he was in prison,
and who he associated with?
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00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,400
It's very likely that he's dead,
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00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,920
and we're trying to find people
who knew him,
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00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,600
who are still alive, so we can
interview them and ask them questions.
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00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,480
{\an8}Sometimes, all we find is a single file
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00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:05,960
with the name, birth date, some details,
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00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,400
and the reason
the person was incarcerated.
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00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:09,480
And that's it.
234
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,000
So I can't tell you what we'll find,
235
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,360
if we find anything, in the archives.
236
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:20,160
We've discovered many things, and we know
he looked a bit shabby when he came here.
237
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,640
We thought that, with his contacts...
238
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,760
- When he got out.
- When he got out of here, he had contacts,
239
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,360
who drove around in Jaguars, in Porsches...
240
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,960
In prison there's something
called "forced proximity,"
241
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,200
where people interact with each other.
242
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,680
And so, you can find yourself with people
243
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,000
who are more deeply involved in crime
244
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:43,840
and end up falling in with them,
245
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,440
into a more serious type of crime, etc.
246
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,360
Anything's possible.
247
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,480
Well, merci, thank you so much
248
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,200
for speaking with us.
249
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,240
The documentation team asked
the Archives of Paris
250
00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,920
for any and every kind of document
related to Ramón Martos Sánchez,
251
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,160
Elvira's father.
252
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,040
Weeks later, we received an email
253
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,040
with the verdict sentencing him
to be imprisoned in La Santé.
254
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,160
Okay, he was arrested.
On January 27, 1979, he was caught.
255
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,520
And they took this photo of him. Exactly.
256
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,360
So, on March 13, they put him on trial.
257
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,040
On April 12, he was sentenced.
And then, in September,
258
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,200
he'd done his time and they let him go.
259
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,960
Richi was born in September,
and that's when they released him.
260
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:32,800
Four days before, they let him go.
261
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,800
They attempted to fraudulently steal
personal property.
262
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,920
- That fits with what María Elvira said.
- But in the end, they were stopped
263
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,400
by the police.
264
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,080
Okay, two people were definitely arrested.
265
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:47,360
Two were arrested?
266
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,640
My father's name appears
in the record of the judgment,
267
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,320
along with another man's.
268
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,920
- Okay, so we have to look for him, right?
- For him, yeah.
269
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,760
We started looking,
and we found him on Facebook.
270
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,240
Based on the dates,
we think he could still be alive,
271
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,560
but we don't know where he lives.
272
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,680
So, we focused on looking for relatives
in his immediate circle.
273
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,840
That's when we found one of his daughters.
274
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,200
Okay, ready? Action.
275
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,360
We've got signal here, right?
276
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:16,640
Ah! They're calling!
277
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,800
Hi, good morning.
One sec, I'm changing rooms
278
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:25,560
so I can hear you better.
There was no signal in the other room.
279
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,800
Okay... Now. I'll explain. Well,
280
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,480
it's basically
what they've already told you.
281
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:38,680
I don't know if you've read what
I sent you from Le Parisien newspaper.
282
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,800
- No, I'd rather you fill me in.
- Okay.
283
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,720
- I'm self-employed. I was with clients.
- Okay.
284
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,520
Okay, sorry and thank you for calling.
Look, I'll explain a little bit.
285
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,200
I've been looking for my parents
for about four or five years.
286
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,840
While looking, I came across a document
287
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,160
in which my father
and yours are named together.
288
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,120
My father was arrested.
289
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:06,960
And the arrest record showed
that your father had also been arrested.
290
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,000
- Okay, let me explain.
- Vale.
291
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:11,480
- That wasn't my father.
- Okay.
292
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:13,560
- It was his brother-in-law.
- Okay.
293
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:16,360
Jesús Mari, who died.
294
00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:24,080
I'm sorry, but he died. Jesús Mari
stole my father's passport from my dad.
295
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,680
- Okay.
- So, yes, they caught him.
296
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,520
They caught him,
but my father almost lost his job.
297
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,040
because they were notified he was
in prison. He worked at the consulate.
298
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,680
Then they said, "No, he's here."
299
00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,200
Obviously, his brother-in-law
had taken his passport.
300
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,200
- Okay.
- So it wasn't my father.
301
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,320
- It's a pretty crazy story.
- Yeah, yeah.
302
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,000
That day, he was with Jesús Mari.
303
00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:49,360
- Thank you.
- Good luck.
304
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:50,720
- Goodbye.
- Bye.
305
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:51,800
- Merci.
- Goodbye.
306
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,240
We investigated Jesús María
307
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,320
and, well, we discovered
that he was quite a character.
308
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,240
He had a long history of robberies.
309
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:11,520
{\an8}He'd also been arrested
for the suspected homicide of a jeweler.
310
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,480
But he's dead,
so yet again, we're faced with silence.
311
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,680
His wife is dead. He's dead.
312
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:24,520
What a bummer.
313
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,080
During the investigation,
the document team
314
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,760
discovered that my dad had been imprisoned
in Bern, Switzerland.
315
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:39,600
As you know, Ramón had a memory
of his dad in Switzerland.
316
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,680
{\an8}Looking at his priors,
both in Spain and in France,
317
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,840
{\an8}we thought
he might've been imprisoned there too.
318
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,880
{\an8}We consulted with Thorberg Prison,
319
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,600
{\an8}who referred us
to the state archives in Bern,
320
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,680
{\an8}which is where all records are kept.
321
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,560
{\an8}And there,
thanks to an email we've just received,
322
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,840
{\an8}they've confirmed Ramón Martos
was imprisoned in Thorberg
323
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,320
{\an8}on Christmas Eve 1982.
324
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:12,160
{\an8}He was arrested
under the name Paulino Pedrosa Figuero.
325
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,000
{\an8}In those records,
do they know when he was released, or not?
326
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:22,800
{\an8}They know he was due to appear in court
in March 1983, and he didn't appear.
327
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,920
{\an8}That's all the information
they can give us.
328
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,120
It's a powerful discovery
because it gives us two clues.
329
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,600
{\an8}The first is that my father was imprisoned
in Switzerland
330
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,080
{\an8}between December 1982 and March 1983.
331
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:38,640
THORBERG PRISON
SWITZERLAND
332
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,400
That adds solid dates to the case.
333
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,440
Secondly, my father provided an address,
334
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,680
Calle Armengol, in Barcelona.
335
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,800
We also discovered
that my father was using a false name.
336
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:51,320
Paulino Pedrosa Figuero.
337
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,000
As his residence, he gave an address
338
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:55,760
in Barcelona that's very near
339
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,400
the France Railway Station.
It's definitely the apartment I remember,
340
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,560
where we were that morning,
the morning we were abandoned.
341
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,640
We looked hard and found
342
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:12,840
that the number he gave in Calle Armengol,
number 89, didn't exist.
343
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,000
The numbering on this street
only went up to number four.
344
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:18,080
It's all pretty weird.
345
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,720
In my father's prison file,
it also said that when he was arrested,
346
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,240
he was with a certain Marc Richard.
347
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,840
And there, the name Richard
immediately drew our attention
348
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:33,960
{\an8}to Elvira's brother's name,
349
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,080
{\an8}the only one who had a French name.
350
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,000
{\an8}We'd always wondered
351
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,920
if it was a tribute
to their father's accomplice
352
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,200
who was French and named Richard.
353
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,160
Bad luck again,
354
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:48,360
because Marc Richard
died in a car accident
355
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,280
near Barcelona,
and his only sister, Pierret,
356
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:54,280
{\an8}never wanted to talk to us.
357
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:56,800
{\an8}One of my issues is that I'm late.
358
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,200
Many of the people
who might know something are dead.
359
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,520
COURTHOUSE
360
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,720
I decided to listen to Montse
and file a report with the courts.
361
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,960
The case ended up being assigned
to a young judge
362
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,680
who was eager to investigate.
363
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,320
We don't want to seem overly enthusiastic,
as we're talking about 40 years ago
364
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:26,240
{\an8}and investigating things outside of Spain
under very complicated circumstances.
365
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,200
But in any case, we found it interesting.
366
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:34,320
And I remember she filed the report
while I was on duty in court one week.
367
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,720
We reviewed it and discussed with
the prosecutor's office. It looked good.
368
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,040
We thought it over a bit before
rolling the dice to see what'd happen.
369
00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:47,000
First, I contacted the Institute
of Legal Medicine of Catalonia
370
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,680
and asked about unidentified cadavers
371
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,480
since the late 1970s.
372
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,440
I remember the boss in Tarragona called me
and said, "Hey, Diego, what's this?
373
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,400
Why are you asking me for this?"
374
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,560
The judge asked for information
from a body of European judges
375
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,560
called Eurojust,
376
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,040
which shares information
with other countries.
377
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,120
They made it clear
it would be a very long road.
378
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:16,240
We were interested in getting information
from Belgium, Switzerland, and France.
379
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,040
The best case scenario would be
380
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:21,320
if a reply came by email one day
381
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:26,560
with 500 scanned documents of Mr. Martos's
criminal record, right?
382
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,680
I think that's quite improbable.
I'm not optimistic about that.
383
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,360
I wish we were just trying to find
a needle in a haystack.
384
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,400
But we're looking for
what we're not even sure is a needle.
385
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,200
One day, as I was filming the documentary,
I looked at my phone and I got
386
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,240
some photos of the L'Escala house
before the renovations.
387
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,160
I'm talking to my brother
because I found the photos...
388
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,280
He'd made me some sketches of the house.
389
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,440
I pulled up the photos
and I'm trying to show them to him...
390
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,360
Because one of the things he'd said was
391
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:02,080
that the staircase was too small.
392
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,320
When we saw David, there were three steps.
393
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,840
And the whole time he insisted
that even though he'd been very young...
394
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:10,680
See? He's writing me, "Holy cow."
395
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,440
And Richi had a gut feeling
396
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,400
that he'd been there before.
397
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,800
He told me no,
that the stairs used to be much bigger.
398
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,600
In the photo that I'm sending him, they'd
done some renovations and there are...
399
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,080
One, two, three, four, five, six steps.
400
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,560
So yes, this could be it.
401
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,520
"I've seen these stairs before."
402
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,320
That's the house. I knew it.
403
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,960
It's a question of energy.
And I had been there.
404
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,240
I was blown away by the details.
405
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,320
All the details coincided
and then I was 100% sure
406
00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:52,280
that it was the house.
407
00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:55,720
Not just that, but also in L'Escala,
there's a lady named Rosa Mari
408
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,280
who apparently knew my mother.
409
00:23:58,360 --> 00:23:59,360
And this
410
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:01,960
was ours. You can see it better here.
411
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,520
This lady walked around with kids,
pushing a stroller.
412
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,240
She had really long hair.
413
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,880
{\an8}- Let's see.
- She looks like me.
414
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,040
{\an8}Just like her.
415
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:12,480
{\an8}Yes, you look alike.
416
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:15,520
She's brunette,
417
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,520
and because you've left your hair white,
but otherwise...
418
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:19,800
Are you the youngest?
419
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:20,880
Yes.
420
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:21,960
Sure, one in every...
421
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,120
Look! The stroller.
422
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,040
Yes. That was it.
423
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:27,240
This is the stroller.
424
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,040
Well, let's see...
425
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:32,200
I can see her. One here, another there...
426
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,000
- And the girl?
- In the stroller.
427
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:36,560
She remembers.
428
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,760
On La Ronda del Pedró, you keep going
429
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,160
as if you were going to Empúries Beach.
430
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,480
Down there, there are some laundromats
431
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,320
in really good condition.
432
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,920
I always saw her around there.
433
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,640
I... honestly, I'm really sorry I'm unable
to give you more information.
434
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,640
- It's okay.
- But that's all I know.
435
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,000
Between my brother's memories of the house
436
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:05,840
and Rosa María's memories,
437
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,760
it's become clearer and clearer
that we lived in L'Escala.
438
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,720
{\an8}Knowing that most of the photos
were taken in Belgium,
439
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,800
{\an8}we tried to investigate more in Belgium.
In order to do so,
440
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,000
we added a new collaborator to our team,
441
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,960
{\an8}the Belgian journalist, Sven Tuytens.
442
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,040
{\an8}Are you guys there?
443
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,400
{\an8}-Yes, now. Hi, Sven!
- Hi, good morning.
444
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,840
{\an8}I'm a journalist, born in Brussels.
445
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,480
{\an8}I focused a lot
on the photos of Middelkerke.
446
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:45,000
{\an8}And what really interested us is
a photo of your parents in a bar
447
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,240
talking to another couple.
448
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:48,480
They told me,
449
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,600
"The ones on the right are our parents
450
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,360
and we want to know
who the ones on the left are."
451
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,760
We don't know the name of the bar,
but we're almost positive
452
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,040
it has to be in Middelkerke or nearby.
453
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:06,080
Sven asked his contacts, and after a bit,
brought us some news.
454
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,640
I know there was a bar
and the owner is still alive.
455
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,800
We're gonna talk to him.
456
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,200
So, there I met Guy.
457
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,000
And when I was with Guy, he gave me
458
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,200
another photo of the bar... That is bar.
459
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:23,280
It's the Copacabana.
460
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,040
I called Giles.
461
00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:29,880
"You have to come to Belgium.
You have to bring the kids.
462
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:31,800
I have someone!"
463
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:45,560
This is Guy.
464
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,720
Guy is the man who was
465
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,960
the owner of the Copacabana,
a famous bar here in Middelkerke.
466
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,600
Here's his card.
467
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,760
It's the original card
from over 40 years ago.
468
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,480
- From the Copacabana.
- Let's see.
469
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,520
- Wow, yeah.
- My goodness.
470
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,720
- They were here.
- They were sitting here.
471
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,000
- Yeah.
- It doesn't exist anymore, right?
472
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,720
The bar doesn't exist now. The bar closed...
473
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,000
When did the bar close?
474
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,240
{\an8}I closed the bar in 1995.
475
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,520
- Can we show you the photos?
- Of course.
476
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,320
- Show him, yeah.
- Okay.
477
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,080
Look, our father went there.
478
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,800
- Yeah.
- Also, well, we have
479
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,640
these photos which were given to us.
480
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,840
- That's our father.
- Yeah.
481
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:38,720
Yes. I recognize him.
482
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,360
- Yeah? Do you remember?
- Yeah?
483
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,520
I remember him
because he was a very stylish man.
484
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,680
He was well groomed, super friendly,
and the typical customer I really liked.
485
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,600
I never forgot him
486
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,240
because he parked his car
right in front of my bar.
487
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,480
There it is, in fact. That was it, yeah.
488
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:03,480
I used to talk to my customers, and once,
speaking with your father,
489
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,520
he invited me to drive
around the block with him.
490
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,200
I'll never forget it, as it was
my first time in a Jaguar.
491
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,680
Do you know if he was here for long?
492
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,280
He came several days in a row,
493
00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:20,520
but he wasn't here for weeks or months.
494
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,840
Do you know what they did?
495
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,360
He could've been someone
involved in crime.
496
00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:29,880
There are many possibilities.
497
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,360
Why go to Middelkerke?
My first reaction is
498
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,520
maybe because Ostend is nearby.
499
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,040
Ostend was the capital in the 1980s.
500
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,400
There was violence in Ostend.
501
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,080
There was prostitution. There were mafias.
502
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,840
OSTEND'S MONTMARTRE ZONE
WANTS TO FORM ITS OWN GANGS
503
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,920
There were many highs and lows.
Every time you get a match,
504
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,440
every time you find a clue, every time...
You know?
505
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,320
It was a rollercoaster of, "Yes, yes. No."
506
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,720
This story is exactly what I told Elvira
it would be, a long-distance race.
507
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,360
Right now, we still haven't finished.
508
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,440
Who knows if we will finish it further on.
509
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,600
{\an8}They know their names, where they lived.
510
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,800
{\an8}But they still don't know
if they're alive or dead...
511
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,640
"Did they leave them? Did they not?"
512
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,560
I mean, the initial question
513
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,160
for them remains the same.
514
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:38,400
There are still many things to figure out
that are very important to them.
515
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,840
The journalists' investigations
helped us find
516
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,240
the places in the photos
from over 40 years ago,
517
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:50,560
and we visited them.
518
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,520
{\an8}GILES TREMLETT
JOURNALIST
519
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,440
Frank took us to the Acapulco building
520
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,800
and let us go up on the roof.
521
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,360
To see that it was me in that stroller
522
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,640
and that photo was on the exact same roof.
523
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,160
I was like... "Wow!"
524
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,120
When Frank saw one of the photos,
525
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:43,640
he also said
it was very likely taken at a resort
526
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:44,800
called Terstret.
527
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,200
{\an8}I know that place
because I've been the manager since 1996.
528
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,880
The visit there was like
what happened to us on the rooftop.
529
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,440
The place was the same,
with the same cottages.
530
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,080
Not even the long-time residents
remembered our parents.
531
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,760
There's no doubt that the photos
were taken in that place.
532
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,160
DO YOU KNOW THESE PEOPLE?
533
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,160
We were there, but we were definitely
passing through, and no trace remains.
534
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,720
Maybe it was the last place
the whole family was together.
535
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,160
We took the opportunity
to go to the playground,
536
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,440
which was ke y to discovering the photos
were taken in Middelkerke.
537
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,160
He's there and I'm here, right?
538
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,440
- No, no, it's here.
- That's heavy.
539
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,160
We knew from the investigation
540
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:50,320
that the Belgian authorities had contacted
the Spanish authorities
541
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,440
to ask for information about my father.
542
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,960
And that's when we realized
it would be very interesting
543
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,200
to be able to contact
a Belgian ex-policeman
544
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:04,320
to see if he could tell us or knew
something about my father.
545
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:10,840
Let's say your father committed
a robbery that would have given him
546
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,200
{\an8}enough money to retire
for the rest of his life,
547
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,240
and he wanted to quit the gang of thieves.
548
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,040
They never would've let him do that.
549
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,120
Let's say that
550
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:27,920
my father was shot
and found dead in the street,
551
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,840
is there no way
to track down the deceased?
552
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:36,640
It was at a time
when computers still weren't in use,
553
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,240
and everything was done by hand,
554
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,040
so I don't think
you'll find that kind of information.
555
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:46,920
Roland shed some light for us
556
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,400
on how criminals operated at that time.
557
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,000
He promised to give our photos
to his police colleagues
558
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,720
to see if they remembered something.
559
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,480
Sven got us access to a house he believes
560
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,520
could be where we lived in 1982.
561
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:08,160
There are many white stone rental houses.
We have the photos.
562
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,480
There are many photos
with white stone buildings.
563
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,680
- Yes.
- And there's a house on the corner.
564
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,920
- Yes.
- It looks a lot like the one
565
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,400
you lived in with your parents.
566
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:21,960
Also with the Jaguar
567
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,760
parked in the street.
We think we found the house.
568
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:26,840
Oh, yeah?
569
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,680
- They gave me a key.
- Oh, wow.
570
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,840
Let's see if it's right.
571
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,200
- You're about to find out.
- And where is it?
572
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,000
It's there, on the corner.
573
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,240
- The house being worked on...
- Under construction.
574
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,080
- And Dad was sitting here.
- He was here.
575
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,000
Wow, man, that's intense!
576
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:03,560
Wow!
577
00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:07,040
You come in these houses
and it stirs everything up.
578
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,680
A time comes when you say...
579
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:11,640
"We are so, so close..."
580
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:17,280
But... I'm actually afraid to find out.
581
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,680
But I also really want to know.
582
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,440
What'll happen if we find them?
583
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,280
That's my question.
584
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,840
It's like posting photos and saying,
"It was real!" You know?
585
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,760
I didn't have a past before this.
586
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,720
I remember Marco saying, "Holy cow!"
587
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,480
When I saw these photos
it was as if you start having a life.
588
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:46,400
Starting that day.
589
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,240
Right? That's how it was, you know?
590
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:53,760
It was as if nothing existed.
591
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,000
Only what they'd told me.
592
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,240
And it's like, "No, I'm seeing it's true."
593
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,040
In that apartment, I lost it.
594
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,240
In Belgium, I started to see
595
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,040
that it would be too difficult
to find our parents.
596
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,040
Yeah, no, actually,
it's also one of those things that...
597
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,640
If the story ends
without an ending and not knowing...
598
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:30,240
This is what I'm taking with me.
599
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,760
Everything I've found, I've experienced,
and I'm taking it with me.
600
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:36,640
Totally.
601
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:38,680
It's amazing.
602
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,120
He's getting serious.
603
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,040
Fear's made him serious.
604
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,360
I'm not getting serious,
but for me too, even if we hadn't...
605
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,920
Even if we hadn't done this,
I've always loved you guys just the same.
606
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,240
I love you guys a lot.
607
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:53,600
Sure, sure, but...
608
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,360
- This has brought us closer together.
- Yeah, it's cool.
609
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,600
- We've spent a lot of time together.
- Yeah.
610
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,120
We went on a field trip.
611
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,880
I think everyone's looking for something,
which is very powerful.
612
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,920
Well, for me it's very powerful.
I get emotional.
613
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,760
Everyone wants to know
614
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,840
that they were loved.
Everyone needs to know they were loved.
615
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:19,840
That's what they're seeking.
616
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,240
Yeah, I also wanted to know
that they loved me.
617
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,760
I could tell, just by looking at photos,
618
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,280
that they loved us a lot, I mean...
619
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,200
We were super happy.
620
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:38,680
In the photos,
621
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:43,360
yeah, you can see that they loved us,
and we were really comfortable.
622
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,200
You see... well,
my dad tossing us up in the air.
623
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,840
We're with my mother...
Yeah, they loved us a lot.
624
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,920
I always say that, if they were alive,
they would've come looking for us.
625
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,120
I'm absolutely certain.
626
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,080
For me, it's always been
627
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,720
death. They were killed.
628
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,920
{\an8}I've always thought it and always said it.
629
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,120
{\an8}I'd never see him again.
630
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:37,520
My parents are dead.
631
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,080
And I'd rather them be dead.
632
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,440
You know what I often wonder?
633
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,360
I think I'd choose for them to be alive.
634
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,120
And dress it up an excuse
with something pretty.
635
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,200
Like they couldn't look for me because,
otherwise, my life would be in danger.
636
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,040
Finding themselves in danger, we suspect
637
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,240
the parents left the three kids
in the custody
638
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,960
of Denis, and that, at a certain point,
he was forced to abandon the kids
639
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,680
in a place he knew they'd be found.
640
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,440
He left them there because he knew
their parents weren't coming back.
641
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:24,040
I think that, all things considered,
it would give them peace
642
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,960
to know that they had died,
so they can bring the story to a close.
643
00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:33,760
I wouldn't change my life for anything
in the world, but, yeah...
644
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,520
I don't know,
sometimes I wonder, you know?
645
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:45,600
What would have been, or who I would be,
if they hadn't left me in that station.
646
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:14,560
The investigation into the disappearance
647
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,760
of Ramón Martos Sánchez
and Rosario Cuetos Cruz
648
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:17,840
remains ongoing.
649
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,160
Translation by Courtney Keeling Greenlaw
54792
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