All language subtitles for Escaping.Utopia.S01E02.720p.WEB-DL.AAC2.0.H.264-BTN

Husbands and fathers were taught

to teach their
children what sex was.

And fathers were taught that they
should invite their kids into the room

and show them what sex between
a husband and wife was.

We had to watch

my mum and dad

have sex.

I would've only been 8,

8 or 9.

I had just tried to not think
about what was happening.

I thought that every father was
doing that to their children.

It just became normal to us.

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♪ When you come,

♪ I'll follow you.

♪ I'll follow you. ♪

You have to be in
the mountains...

in the New Zealand West Coast.

You have to see
it to believe it.

♪ Rumours of the heavenly seed

♪ sprawling forth
amidst the seas

♪ in the bloom of her virginity

♪ rose beyond belief, psyche.

A dirt road with all these
trees causing this darkness.

Black water...

just no one

for bloody miles.

And there I was, undercover into
this really isolated community.

Hopeful Christian says that the outfits
worn by the women in this community

are designed to be submissive,
sweet, and feminine.

He believes that all the
women should look the same,

like this, because it
stops the evils of vanity

and prevents competitiveness
amongst women.

Here we are taking photos.

I can remember thinking, 'They're
not gonna believe this at work.

'I'm now actually even
wearing the frock.'

Thought I looked
terrible in it too.

I've always had sort of oversized
bosoms from about the age of about 12,

and I sort of felt like one of
the cows that I was milking.

And it was just like,
'Oh, dear.'

'What have I got myself into?'

To begin with, I
worked in the dairy.

It was an unusual situation, because
farm work is strictly a male domain.

So I swapped the farming for the washing.
As a result, I became more accepted,

and learnt more about the
lives of the younger girls.

I was still being kept a pretty
strong eye on by Neville.

We know today that there
are witnesses in heaven...

and they are witnessing to
what is happening here today.

He was their leader ― revered, loved,
and they hung on his every word.

Folks, we're not a
community; we're a church.

He had this voice that boomed.

It felt like when he spoke to you,
he kind of spoke right at you,

and it would kind of sit with you
― or it did with me ― for the day.

I did understand what hell it
would be if you tried to leave.

The world was evil. In
here, it's protected.

We are the chosen ones.

We are the people of God,

and the next best thing to God
was probably Neville Cooper.

If you look at where they lived, to
actually escape physically feels impossible.

But to escape psychologically,

it actually is impossible.

From New Zealand
and around the world,

this is 20/20.

Tonight on 20/20 ―

his people say he's
the voice of God.

Some of his family say
he thinks he is God.

Neville is capable of doing a
Jim Jones or a Dave Koresh thing.

They say that they
live in this community

because they have given themself
totally and truly to God,

and that they love and adore
their leader, Hopeful Christian.

I did three or four stories,

and had every single thing
that you could imagine ―

sexual abuse, indoctrination,
confusion about God.

It was like being in
your own bloody thriller.

- All my daughter wants to do is see her mother.
- I'm not talking to you.

There's a proper way, and this is not
the way, and you're not welcome here.

Well, fine!

Some of the women told me, in great
detail, about having their hymen broken

the night before their wedding.

It looked very much like this.

It was about that much longer...

and probably about that
much in circumference.

And he said to me,

'I'm going to use this...

'to stretch your muscles...

'so that you don't
have any pain.'

I felt like I was
being ripped in two.

It was a very, very big
story in New Zealand.

So while they were completely
physically isolated,

people in this country now
knew what was going on.

Dozens of police
raided two South Island

Christian communities shortly
after dawn this morning.

They were acting on the
complaints of former members.

A young woman alleges she was sexually
violated by Mr Cooper with a wooden object.

Another woman says she and
her teenager sisters were told

by Mr Cooper to undress and
then touch his private parts.

A young man alleges he and his
teenager brothers were told to undress

and watch as Mr Cooper and his
wife performed sexual acts.

Police moved in fast. With
them, a fire engine and an ambulance ―

signs police had
prepared for the worst.

Don't let them through the
gates. Back you go. Right back.

Somebody came running
in the main door...

and locked the doors.

We were taught that the police just wanted to
destroy us, that they'd split up our families,

and so I was petrified.

All the children just
scattered like rabbits,

because in their mind, they're
coming to take you away.

I can remember peaking out the
curtains and being told off.

'Don't look out the curtains.'

When the raids were over,
they'd arrested just one man.

Christian sect leader Neville
Cooper, who came originally from Australia.

A jury has found Cooper guilty of
10 of the 11 charges of indecent assault.

Have you got the judgment?

'You were the leader of a
fundamentalist Christian community.

'All of the young complainants were members
of your flock, conditioned to do your bidding.

'Yours was the pervasive influence on
the lives of all these young people.

'I find the evidence
was overwhelming.

'You used and abused
your position of trust,

'power, and dominion to
sexually abuse the complainants,

'while professing to do these things to relieve
their tensions and/or prepare them for life.'

I think this judge,
right then, could see.

He's using the words ― conditioning,
the power, the dominion.

It wasn't like you
couldn't see back then

what the community
had already become.

Just wanna kind of fix
yourself that way slightly.

No, other way.

Yeah.

The other problem in
the community has been

a raft of sexual offending.

And the first that that issue
went into the public was

when the Overseeing Shepherd,

Hopeful Christian, was
arrested and charged, isn't it?

Yes.

And...

what explanations were you given in
the community of what was going on?

I knew the man very well...

and I know his motives were nothing
but good to help other people.

And, from there...

I believe it got twisted
to what the court judged.

You've always known about Hopeful
Christian's past, haven't you?

I don't believe that it was...

what they say it was.

We got told that it
was people who had left

that were bitter and angry and
just wanted to destroy our faith,

and they wanted to persecute
Hopeful for being a Christian,

and so that's why
he had gone to jail.

I'd sort of thought when
he went to prison...

that it would come right, but,
oh my God, how wrong I was.

After serving 11 months of a six-year
prison sentence for sexual offending,

Gloriavale leader Hopeful Christian,
was released back into the community.

The 69-year-old leader of Gloriavale
is now free to rejoin the Christian community.

What a terrible time
we're living in, brethren.

Right at the end.

This'll be one of
the worst ages...

for sin,

deception,

evil,

to trick people
away from the truth.

I don't remember the
day he came back...

but I could remember
him just being back.

The Lord had heard our
prayers, and he had...

destroyed the intentions of the wicked men
that had put Hopeful in prison, so, you know,

I can remember it being an
exciting thing that he was back.

It is astonishing...

that he did such a
short term in prison.

He gets done for sexual abuse, and then
he's released back into the community

where the sexual abuse has taken
place, where there's all those women,

where there's all
those young boys.

And back as a hero...

because the world had tried
to nail him, but he was back.

The big bad world, they'd tried
to get him, but they couldn't.

He was too powerful.

He saw the world as a place where
everyone else was against him.

It created a 'them and
us' type of attitude.

The outside world just hate us, they're just
against us. They're trying to destroy us.

In the community, it was seen
as he was being falsely accused.

And that was a much nicer story,

and so that's the one
I wanted to believe.

But at the same time...

something inside me knew
things weren't quite right.

Some people who are wanting to move
away from Gloriavale contacted me,

wanting a house to rent,

and this one's available
because the tenant's moving out.

Bit of a problem ― it hasn't got a
fence, and they've got little kids.

The couple texted me...

wanting to talk, and I've texted back
saying, you know, 'Call me any time.'

There was something suspicious
about why she contacted me,

and then, all of the
sudden, there's no contact.

So I'm just gonna go up and check,
call in and see if they're OK.

It'll be a Gloriavale person.

But I wouldn't get too worried, because if
you drive around like you own the place,

no one's gonna even know.

This is a dairy farm
that Gloriavale owns,

but it's run remotely.

It's been commonly used for
people who are being isolated

or people with problems.

All right, this is
their house here.

Just hide the camera now. We
really don't want any attention.

So my suspicions
were pretty true.

They didn't see me.

I'm just gonna move out
of here, and we'll come up

with a different time to contact
and a different strategy.

One of the leaders is in
there talking to the husband

and is obviously aware that
they're wanting to leave.

And he's one of the worst
bullies in Gloriavale for, like,

psychologically putting
pressure on people.

Hopefully, they'll
still talk to me now.

That's probably the thing
that I'm really worried about,

is they then start cutting
off some healthy communication

that they've been having
with the outside world.

All this sort of stuff
is fairly close to home.

I've lived through
heaps of religious,

manipulating pressure.

So you're seeing a little
bit of that rattling.

When there's someone the leaders
don't like, they turn against you,

you know, they start turning
your family against you,

because you're this evil person;
you're turning against the church.

And you become socially isolated because people
know you're bad. They become scared of you.

So even while you're in there, you can
become very, very lonely and isolated.

And it's really, really not
nice to have people you love...

actually feel hatred from them.

So across these waters...

and nestled beneath
the mountains,

that's Gloriavale.

In spite of the leadership
wanting Sharon and I

to be gone from the
community, we still live here.

So, here's the balcony...

and our room is at the far end.

And it's a strange way to end a
45-odd-year involvement with the community.

We are not allowed within 100m
of the main community buildings.

So we've made a home about 200m
down from the main community.

That's where the birds live.
That's where the mice live.

We are uninvited guests, living here
in rather awkward circumstances.

I want to stay where I am...

because I believe that's
actually God's will for me,

to stay right where I am.

That is something I prayed
about for a long time.

I have a young 14-year-old
daughter buried in the graveyard...

Mummy loves
you very much.

Yeah.

...and two sons,
three daughters...

and around 35 grandchildren
still living in Gloriavale.

And so I'm hanging in
there so my grandchildren

and my children can come and talk
to me if they have a serious need.

Angel Benjamin,

could you please continue
your brief of evidence?

Both my parents, Clem
and Sharon Ready,

joined the community as youths, and were
married and raised a family of 13 children.

There was a lot of turmoil
in the family that I grew up.

And...

this is my voice here.

They might have a
different opinion on it.

One, two, three!

That's great. Thank you.

- Hello, Mummy.
- Hello, I've been busy. - And me.

Hello.
- Hello.

You missed it, Mum.

I am a committed member of the
Gloriavale Christian Community,

and pray to be this
way until Jesus comes

and finds me in peace, faithfully
living his commandments.

My prayer for those still in the battle
is to make peace before that day.

I was not upset with what she
was testifying in the court,

because that is what I believed.

I brought her up to
believe in the church,

to believe in the What
We Believe.

Every church has a dogma...

and this is the GV
interpretation of the scripture.

It's not just the about
giving your life to Christ.

You have to sign over...

complete control of your
own life as a mother...

complete control
over your children

and your future generations.

♪ At the time
of creation...

I believe that Jesus
is the son of God,

and he died to take away my sin.

And when I go under these waters,
I'm gonna come up a new creature.

Amen. In the name of
Jesus Christ, we bury you.

Hallelujah.
- Hallelujah.

When you're in Gloriavale
and you're a child,

you're told that you owe
your life to Gloriavale.

You driving?

I'm driving.

Since I've left, I'm still
finding myself and who I am.

33 years old, and I'm thinking,

'I can figure this out,
and I am figuring it out.'

Oh, you got scared?

You got scared.

After I started having
kids, you realise

I don't actually have any
control of these kids' lives.

I'm their mother, but
they're the community's kids.

And there was the wish bone.

- Good manners, good manner!
- Good manners, I love that. -

You're so cute.

I didn't want to bring up a girl
to live my life, what I had lived.

A former resident of Gloriavale has
given a damning assessment of life in the commune.

Former Gloriavale member says
residents are brainwashed from a young age,

with women expected to cook, clean, and
sew for long hours without taking breaks.

The allegations were made at
an employment court hearing,

where it's being argued
women there are employees,

not volunteers, as the
leadership has claimed.

Now, before you, you've
got a written brief.

Would you please read
your brief to Her Honour?

'I am one
of the plaintiffs.

'I was born into the
Gloriavale community.

'I left high school
at the age of 15.

'One day, Hopeful Christian
just walked into the classroom

'and said, "Right, we
need more workers."

'The whole grade finished
school that day.'

Our lives have been
chosen from birth,

and that's a big thing to
deconstruct when you leave.

Did you feel like
a slave in there?

I wouldn't have said
that when I was in there,

but looking back,
knowing what I know...

yes. We were slaves.

Hopeful knew he had young, fit,
able people at his disposal ―

and that's what set the
scene for the child labour.

So the median age
at Gloriavale is 12,

and so you're looking at
a very skewed population.

If those young people weren't
there, you wouldn't have

all the asset growth and the base of
Gloriavale and the wealth they are sitting on.

I'm not saying they're sitting
on it in their bank account;

I'm saying they're sitting on
assets upwards of... 60 million.

Without young labour,

their business model would
have collapsed decades ago.

My job is to make sure the freezers
are organized, clean, and tidy.

I agree it is not
always an easy job.

It can be tiring and strenuous.

But there is a joy of
giving and fulfilling

in exactly the place I am needed
and where I believe God wants me.

At one stage, I did become
dissatisfied with life,

because I could not
feel the satisfaction

and joy that I saw in the lives
of my parents and the leaders,

but I decided to read
my Bible and follow it.

I did have questions about
the why's of Gloriavale life.

It wasn't easy, and I
didn't love the life I had.

As I read the Bible
and What We Believe,

I came to a greater understanding
of the fundamental principle

that this community
life was based on.

Being happy isn't really
their goal in life.

Their goal is to
suffer for Christ.

'I'm gonna deny myself anything

'that looks like
sort of pleasure.

'I need to be giving and
serving all the time.'

And so, to even
enjoy yourself...

is seen as sinful...

because our reward is in heaven.

So,

you are looking for
a reward in heaven?

That's your evidence?

Well, the Lord's
promised me one.

I suggest to you that you were
happy working at Gloriavale,

and it's only subsequently,
after you have left Gloriavale,

that you are now recasting
what your views were.

- I disagree.
- OK.

Being happy in Gloriavale...

is a facade.

It's a coping mechanism.

On the contrary...

how I
actually felt...

and how I could not tell
anybody that I felt...

I was going to commit suicide...

because I thought that

it'd be better to burn in hell
than leave Gloriavale.

Distressing testimony
came from Gloriavale leavers,

whose treatment left them feeling
enslaved, entrapped and suicidal.

Yet a procession of Gloriavale women denied
working under the whip of its leaders,

accusing the plaintiffs of
making misleading, distorted,

and exaggerated claims
about life at the commune.

They weren't brainwashed,
downtrodden, subjugated,

or worked off their feet.

They weren't forced to do
anything against their will,

the women said.

So-called 'slave labour'
was simply a labour of love.

Hey, Dave.

How's it going, boy?

Hey.

Aw, how's it going, mate?

Oh, gidday.
- How's it?

Oh, eggs and lemons.
- Yeah, yeah.

Obviously, Tabitha went back to
the court case again to observe.

- Yeah, she was there for two
days too. - Yeah.

Did that unsettle her more?
- Yeah, I think she's actually sort of like,

seeing that people in
Gloriavale are thinking

the ex-members are showing
it all from one side.

So it's like they feel like
they have to counteract it

by going right to the other end of the
scales to try and pull it back their way.

So with that, is it making her think,
'Is it time to pack up and leave?'

Or is she still holding out
for a breakthrough somewhere,

a total change in leadership?

I would say that would kind
of probably come first would.

Yeah, she would be,
like, probably more―

be hoping it would change
so that we didn't have to.

If she sees you're actually starting to
put things in place and you've got a plan,

she will have way more confidence in even
allowing her thoughts to go down the track of...

- Yeah, true.
- ...'OK, what happens if we leave?'

But if you're in limbo and
you're just hanging around,

then she needs to, by default,
fall on to where her security is.

I mean, she's...
- Yeah, true.

...20, 21 weeks pregnant?

So, she needs that
security, massively.

You guys don't have a
direct, upfront conversation.

Everything is done in sort of code, because...
- Yes.

..you wouldn't trust her with personal
stuff because she might tell the leaders.

So this game play that's been going on in your whole married life...
- Yeah.

...you've got to
change that now.

It's like, you know, you're married,
but there's always― It's like, you know,

you're standing there, but the
leaders are still in between you.

You can see each other,
but they're still there.

The leaders are the ultimate
authority in your marriage.

In the marriage vow, the wife
states on the wedding day,

'I promise to love
and obey you...

'...as long as...

'you obey the leaders.'

After many conversations,

I started to become aware that you
control the men through the wife;

and the wives, I guess, through
the children, through salvation.

When you get born
into Gloriavale,

you don't have a choice.

You're taught never to question.

And so that complete authority leads to a
very controlling, very damaging environment.

You start wearing
headscarf at the age of 5.

We had to keep our heads covered

to show that we were submissive
and meek and quiet...

and for, like, showing that we
weren't trying to seduce men.

So this is, like, a few things that I
brought out with me, like, when I left.

I managed to sneak my scarf,

which has still got
my old name on it,

Honey Faithful, or Honey F.

So everyone's clothes
gets labelled like this.

It's probably one of the
first things you learn to sew

when you start sewing
at, like, 9, maybe?

What else have I got?

These are some of the photos

that I'd grabbed out of
our family photo album.

I really like this one...

mainly because I'm on a tractor,

and girls weren't allowed
to do 'boys' things.

So I always liked that, that
I was on a tractor.

Boys and girls are
kept very separate.

When you leave school at 15, you're
not allowed to talk to the young men,

or, like, have anything
to do with them.

Like, I got pulled
into a meeting

because I was
talking to my cousin,

and they thought we were
having a relationship.

You're passing the
same people every day.

You're living in the
same hostels with them.

You're eating at the same table as
them, but you're not to talk to them.

So you know them from
just observing, really.

And I guess, you know their sisters, and so you
hear stuff, but you shouldn't ever be alonetogether.

But the other side to that was

there was a lot of sexual
talk, just in the...

in the normal daily
happenings at Gloriavale.

It was a bit weird. Like, some people were
quite out in the open about their sex life,

and certain people in there would have quite
radical views around sex and talk freely about it.

It's not really
breakfast material,

but, yeah, talking about
different types of sex and, yeah,

and positions and everything,
and I'm 8 or 9, like...

That's what you're exposed to.

And in a really close community like
Gloriavale, you just can't escape it.

I supposed growing up in there, you don't
really know what is acceptable behaviour.

But...

I was always glad I wasn't a girl,
because the sex culture was terrible.

Hopeful talked all the
time about, you know,

'Men get turned on by elbows,
so don't pull your sleeves up.'

So, the girls are responsible
for tempting the men ―

and they actually tell the guys that
too ― 'You can't help yourselves.

'You girls, you can say no.
You can stop it happening.

'Guys, once it's on,
once you've tempted them,

'they can't stop it.'

And so, you've got
boys growing up,

thinking that they can
do whatever they like.

And then you've got girls
growing up thinking,

'If something happens
to me, it's my fault, '

and so, then not going
and getting help,

because effectively, they're
telling someone how bad they are.

The leaders quite often
would flick your bra strap,

undo your belt or wrap their
arms around your waist.

Or if you're standing at
the table serving them,

they'll pull you in and
rub your legs up and down.

Hopeful was
definitely the worst.

Howard Temple was bad as well.

And Howard and
Hopeful doing that,

that's saying to the
other guys, 'This is OK.'

And they'd do it too.

I never remember Hopeful or Howard
giving me inappropriate cuddles, etc.

I felt loved and cared
for in an acceptable way.

Rosanna never told
me or even hinted

that she hated the
affection shown to her.

I always thought that she
loved the well-meant attention.

She did not act like
it was a problem.

I have not felt sexually
threatened by any of the leaders.

On the contrary, I would feel
safest with those men of God,

who give their lives to the people
of the church and community.

- Now, Ms Stedfast, you just inserted a word there.
- Sorry.

No, no, don't apologise.

Because it may be that you
want to insert that word.

So you said, 'I've not felt―'

In your brief, you say, 'I have not
felt threatened by any of the leaders.'

And when you spoke, I think you
inserted the word 'sexually'.

Um, my brief says 'sexually'.

I think I wrote that.

And it's your evidence, so that's
absolutely fine. Thank you.

I don't think there's any family in Gloriavale
that hasn't either been the victim or an offender.

I was 7 when I was first abused.

I was, by one of my own family members,
sexually abused from quite a young age...

probably around 7 or 8.

No one had any idea.

I had sexually abusive
things happen to me.

I couldn't tell anyone because
I couldn't trust anybody.

It... really...

changed me.

I just encased myself...

with anger,

with being tough...

to try and hide,
yeah, like, the pain.

I came out one night
to Marcus' place,

and he said, 'Look,
you need to get help.'

And I was like,
'And what's that?

'What is help?'

I didn't know what help was...

because I'd never been
given it my whole life.

So these are the cases that
have been through the courts.

Oh.

'Charged with indecently
assaulting a 9-year-old girl,

'and sentenced to six
months community detention.

'Sexual offending youth court.

'Finished through the courts
and free of conditions.

'38 charges including rape, sexual
violation, indecent assault.

'Seven counts against
offending young people.'

Five counts?

14 counts?

If you actually count
up the number of people,

there's bloody heaps of them.

All this abuse. There's just so
much of it, it makes me feel sick.

Sin and lust are everywhere. So, yes, in
our ignorance and our desire to be merciful,

loving, and forgiving, there
have been perverts among us,

but I have never heard
sexual immorality encouraged,

condoned or taught.

Young men and young
women develop sexually, physically

when, say, they're 13, 14.

But yet in society, they didn't get
married until well into their 20s.

Society says, 'Oh well, we'll
let the young people fornicate.'

And we say, 'No, they
should be married.'

That super strict morality
is often just a cover...

for something darker.

My dad believed that pre-marital sex
was such a sin and such a shame...

and he didn't teach men
to control themselves.

So he had...

the young people married off.

♪ There ain't no
rules I'll disobey,

♪ except the one that says
I'm free to go my way.

When the girls were clearing the
tables one day, after breakfast,

we saw this sheet of paper at
Hopeful's place at the table.

It had all the boys' names and all
the girls' names on the other side.

♪ So I will take the
vow with my own hand.

I can remember actually
being quite shocked

that Hopeful had 'down to
2-year-olds' matched up.

But he did used to
say all the time too,

that it was his responsibility as the leader
to make sure the bloodlines weren't mixed up.

There's me. I'm here.

Hey!

Some of us didn't get to see, but I knew
that I was on the list, and I was terrified,

but I knew that I'd have to say yes.
Like, I knew that I'd have no choice.

Getting married in Gloriavale,
it is an arranged marriage.

I went and approached Hopeful and
said that I'd like to get married,

And he was like, 'Yep, OK.

'So what do you think
about marrying Tabitha?'

I was just like,

'I don't even know what to say.'

It's like she didn't even
exist up until this point.

So, you know, we talked a bit about, you
know, just doing God's will and that,

and being happy with
things, you know,

and that they had to consider
bloodlines, and all that sort of thing.

And I'm like, 'Uh...

'yeah.

'OK.'

This one is Tabitha's
wedding day.

We look quite similar, and we
would get mixed up as being twins,

but our personalities
are quite different.

I'm very, like, strong-willed, and
she'll just, like, do whatever.

Even though I
wanted to have kids,

I didn't want to be married to
any of the men in Gloriavale,

and I didn't wanna be
told who I had to marry.

I actually thought that they would make me marry
this guy, and I actually couldn't standhim,

and I knew that both him and Elijah had gone
to ask Hopeful if they could get married.

Just the whispers,
the rumours go around.

And I just remember
praying one night to God

and actually saying, 'Please
don't make me marry this guy.

'I can't stand him. I
wanna marry Elijah.'

I loved how he treated his
mum and his sisters. Yeah.

And I just thought he was cool.
He had a cool walk.

A week later, Elijah asked
my dad if he could marry me,

and the relief, the
utter relief that I felt.

When God

created Adam,

he was alone.

He said, 'It's not good
for man to be alone.'

So he created a helping.
- Amen!

I was really happy
to marry Rosie,

but apart from being attractive
and an all-round good girl,

I didn't really
know her that well.

I know that you're a servant
of God, and you obey his word.

So I can easily submit myself to you
and trust the decisions you make.

And I'll love all your children,

and gladly give myself as a
Christian mother to raise them.

I'll love you, and I
promise to make you happy.

♪ In this world
of sin and sorrow,

♪ where men's hearts

♪ fare for fear,

♪ we have hope and
bless and assurance...

God has given something
wonderful to the female.

He's given her a seal,

and that guarantee and that seal

was to be given to her husband.

He was the one to open it,

and that was what
marriage is about.

Once you're married, you're expected
to have children straight away.

A lot of the woman's
value is in...

yeah, how many kids she has

and how well she has them.

If you're getting pregnant and having
kids fast, then God's blessing you;

and if you're not, then
what are you doing wrong?

And if you're not, then
what are you doing wrong?

You can say hello to the camera.

You look better than Mum.

Hey, Seth.

Hi, Dad.

My kids came pretty
soon afterwards.

My first five are actually within five years
and three months, and none of them are twins.

Honey, be gentle.

The first turning point for us
was actually when I had Honor.

Ooh, here we go.

Beauty.
- I love you too.

Look at that beautiful
face, nice up close.

Big smile.

Then there goes the loudmouth.

Yum, yum, yum.

I remember looking at her in the cot
and thinking, 'She's not safe here.'

On my husband's part, as a dad,
he's thinking about his kids.

And, you know, 'Is this the place
I want my kids to grow up in?'

But we still thought that it was
the only place we could raise them.

So then we thought, 'Well,
we've gotta, you know,

'start making some changes
and make this place safe.'

I still believed in Gloriavale,

but then I talked to
one of Hopeful's sons

who had been kicked out...

and he told me
that his dad was...

put in prison for

sexual abuse

on young girls.

And that was it. Like,
I just had seen enough.

I knew there had to be something
a lot better than Gloriavale,

because the way they
operated wasn't right.

It was a rainy day,
it was lunchtime.

I walked up to Hopeful.
I was very nervous,

and I said, 'Hopeful, there's a few
questions I would like to ask you.

'They're quite serious questions.
Could we go somewhere private?'

So we jumped in the car.

I said to him, 'Why
are you our leader?

'Why are you our representative, when
you've got criminal convictions?'

And he just got angry at me.

I will
not listen to you!

He didn't deny anything.

He never answered whether
it was true or not.

He didn't wanna listen or
talk or explain anything.

Hopeful came
bursting in and said,

'Your husband's made a big
mess, and he's brought the law,

'and the police is here
to take kids off you.

'You need to go and tell them to go away,
and we can calm the situation down.'

I was so scared. I was so scared that they were
gonna take my kids off me. I didn't know why.

I couldn't see any police,

and the whole community
was out the front.

Get out, sinner!

You're not welcome here!

Get out!

You are not welcome!

Be gone!

Elijah was wild. I'd never
seen him like that before.

You don't have a family anymore!

I put the Devil in you!

I put the Devil in you!

I'm running around screaming.

I didn't want this to be the last
time I ever see my wife and kids.

Get out! The Devil is in you!

We ran to each other, and Hopeful walked
straight up to us and pulled us apart.

He's like, 'You don't
love each other.

'This man's an evil man, and you are
not bound to be with him ever again.'

They ended up just picking
me up and carrying me out.

The next thing I knew, they
had flown her out of there.

I didn't see my family
for six weeks after that.

I can't really remember...

thinking much until I realised

that we'd been
flying up the coast,

that I'd seen the coastline for ages,
and I couldn't see Gloriavale.

And I said to the pilot,
'Where are we going?'

He said, 'Don't worry about it.

'You don't need to be
bothered with these things.

'We'll look after you. We care about you
even though your husband doesn't.'

They said Elijah had been caught
in an affair with an outside woman,

that one of the Gloriavale
men had found him.

I was just extremely confused.

I loved him a lot, and...

I couldn't― I couldn't see living
without him, like, as an option.

It was six weeks.

Yeah, we were in hiding.

We had to get new
clothes.

We had to change our names.

What is it, Seth?

I didn't know what to do. I didn't know where
to go. I didn't know I could call the police.

And so I just decided that God would
have to work a miracle, because...

I didn't know what to do.

I still remember hearing
the phone ring in Dad's bag.

I got the phone, I said, 'Hi, '

and the voice on the other end
of the phone said, 'I've gotcha.'

He told me that
Hopeful went to jail...

for sexual abuse.

As soon as he told me that,
I felt like it was the truth.

It felt like it connected
all the last dots for me.

I actually remember thinking, 'If the leaders are
lying to me about this stuff, what else isa lie?

'Like, how much more
of my life is a lie?'

So pretty.

It's even got my
name on it, see?

There we go.

My old life in all
its glory.

Oh, wow.

These are all letters from
after we left Gloriavale,

and this is probably only half of them. The rest of
them went straight in the fire before theywere read.

Here we go.

'Elijah and Rosanna, I will attempt to
explain to you why I have made a stand against you.

'Pride has been a sin that has done
the damage. You've been covetous.

'How much do you love
the things of this world?

'You're boasters, proud,
blasphemers, disobedient to parents,

'unthankful, false accusers, despisers
of those that are good, traitors.

'I believe that the Devil
came along and sewed doubts

'and fears in your minds, and
has robbed you of your faith.

'Your children's lives
will be affected.

Their spirits will became lean,
and eventually they'll die.

'When will you wake up?'

Now

I can see through them.

At the time, when we were getting
them, really hard to read.

And a lot, I couldn't
read them, or I'd... cry

or get angry.

All right.
Come on, Seth.

Come, Muscles!

- Awesome, Seth!
- Here, here, here, here.

Now let's see Mum out.

Get Mum out.

Oh no!

Out.

Hopeful Christian,
founder of the Gloriavale commune

and convicted sex offender has
died of cancer at the age of 92.

He built Gloriavale
on a foundation of privacy.

The commune won't even
confirm his death.

I was aware that my
dad was quite sick

and that he was likely to die.

I realised that there was no
way I was probably gonna get

to say goodbye to him in
any, you know, nice fashion.

I felt sad.

I felt sad that, you know...

uh...

Yeah, I mean,

I felt sad and relieved, OK?

In one moment, I'd be angry; the next moment,
I was relieved; the next moment, I was crying.

Yeah.

It would have been really
nice that, you know,

we could have parted,
you know, him realising

that I wasn't his enemy, that
I actually cared about him.

Yeah. It wasn't to be.

And you believe
that he's God's son,

that died on the
cross for your sins?

It would be, 'Look, Dad, even
though you didn't think so...

'I did my best to love you.'

Now you're bringing back, um,
emotions into the picture.

I haven't had that emotion
over Dad for a long time.

So, you know, memories bring
back those sort of things to you.

A closed community closing
ranks even further on what's believed

to be the day of their
leader's funeral,

Just one day after 92-year-old Hopeful
Christian is reported to have died.

The funeral was had,
like, the very next day.

And when I rang up about it,

it was definitely
done in such a way

to make sure none of his
rejected children turned up

at his funeral.

♪ The alter lays bare
blood-stained shrines,

♪ one's glistening
grows full of disquiet.

♪ We forged the frontier,
spring thaw at our sides.

♪ Man, we bought the lot,

♪ psyche.

♪ Naught imaginable was missing.

♪ The outcome was unordained.

♪ The voices you hear
are your handmaids

♪ performing on-scene
for you, psyche.

♪ Sailing,

♪ sailing under a bad star.

♪ Who are we?

♪ Who are we in this light?

When we went
down to the graveyard,

there's lots of people around
crying that he had died,

but I don't think I really
actually felt anything.

I think a lot of that has to
do with all that pain and hurt.

Like, it's like I taught
myself to feel nothing.

Growing up, you just thought
he was always gonna be alive.

Like, everyone thought he
was just, like, invincible

and that God would come
back before he would die.

So it was, like, a weird feeling
that was like, what was gonna happen?

It even came out in the news, you
know, who's gonna be the new leader?

The Gloriavale Christian Community
could be at a significant crossroads.

Big questions remain about who
will take over from Hopeful Christian,

who will be the next to lead
Gloriavale, and whether,

indeed, it can survive

without their charismatic,
spiritual ― but flawed ― leader.

♪ There ain't no
rules I'll disobey,

♪ except the one that says
I'm free to go my way.

♪ So I will take the vow

♪ now my heart begins to

♪ out. ♪

Captions were made with
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