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[static and glitching]
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♪moody soul music♪
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♪Trouble is I know I
waited far too long...♪
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[Orna VO] What happens to
us early in life establishes
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a certain kind of blueprint as
to how the rest of life is gonna
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get experienced.
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[crying]
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[Orna VO] We're born in a state
of complete vulnerability and
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dependence.
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♪Trouble is I don't
know how to let it go♪
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♪Trouble is I'm someone
you think you know...♪
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[Orna VO] We take in, for
the first time, social order,
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hierarchies, what is
forbidden, what is allowed.
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All of that starts,
really, in the family.
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♪Someone else♪
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♪Someone else♪
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♪Trouble is♪
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♪Trouble is♪
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♪My trouble is♪
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♪Trouble is♪
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♪Trouble is♪
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♪Trouble is I'm just
scared of what comes next♪
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♪What comes next♪
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♪What comes next♪
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[woman, laughing] They
prepared for three people.
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[laughter]
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Can we switch sides?
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[woman] What...?
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No, I wanna sit on this side.
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[laughter]
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[Josh VO] Me and
Aryn met on OkCupid.
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She actually wouldn't have
identified as polyamorous,
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but I had a mutual friend that
I had reached out to and said,
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"Hey, do you know
this Aryn woman?"
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And she was like,
"Oh, yeah! The poly girl?"
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I didn't even know I was poly;
I didn't even know that word,
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I just was.
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I was, like, communicating that
I was dating this one person in
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college and told him I was also
dating this other person and
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-checked in with them both...
-[Josh and Lorena chuckle]
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And they were like,
"Okay," and I was like,
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"Okay, great!"
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This really put me on a
rocket ship towards...
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what felt like, to
me, rewiring my brain.
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Like...
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For example?
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I mean, a million things!
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What's the thing that
pop into your head?
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There was this moment
where I was like...
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00:03:01,389 --> 00:03:03,850
oh, Josh was sleeping
over, I lived at this, like,
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00:03:03,892 --> 00:03:06,728
cool circus house that
a bunch of acrobats lived,
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there was a party, I
came back to the room,
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and I was like, "Josh,
there's a a guy over there,
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he's so cute.
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I would totally have sex with
him if you and I weren't here."
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-And I--
-I was devastated!
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[Aryn] I could not understand!
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[both laugh]
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So she couldn't
understand, and I was like,
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"How do you not
understand this?"
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Like, that's just, like, a thing
that you don't usually hear with
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the person that you're in
love wi-- I had, like...
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Aryn was like, "You can
be super upset about this,
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or we can just, like, use this
sexual energy for ourselves and
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our own arousal."
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And I was like...
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"What?!"
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Like, "How is that humanly
possible that I've never thought
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about...
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doing that?"
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And then, me and Lorena
ended up matching on Bumble...
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and...
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in the most
unexpected way,
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completely fell
in love with Lorena.
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[Lorena] I've
been poly for years.
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00:04:01,824 --> 00:04:05,078
I was just coming back onto the
dating scene after not dating
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for about three years.
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I went through,
like, a horrific,
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00:04:07,789 --> 00:04:10,083
horrific heartbreak,
and I was just like,
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"Forget about all of
it, not interested,
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not worth it."
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And so it was surprising to
meet someone that was, like,
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really wonderful and
thoughtful and interesting
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and...
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got the poly thing, and Aryn was
actually a big piece of that.
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Like, that was just, like, an
orientation in the beginning --
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that he had a primary
partner -- and I was like,
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"Great, you're not gonna
catch feels for me, then."
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Like, "This is
perfect," which, like...
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that's not how it works, but
that's how I wanted it to work
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at the time.
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Falling deeply, madly
in love with Lorena was, like,
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not-- I didn't think that
that was in the cards of what
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would happen.
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What are you thinking,
Aryn, when you're hearing this?
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Honestly, it makes me really
glad that Lorena's in Josh's
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life because I want Josh to
have all the connection that...
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he wants, and I want connection
for myself in other places.
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00:04:55,670 --> 00:04:58,464
Like, one of Josh's
concerns I think is so funny;
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in the beginning, he was like,
"I'm afraid I'm never gonna be
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enough for you,"
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00:05:02,218 --> 00:05:03,970
and I almost laughed
comically 'cause I'm like,
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"Oh, you won't be enough.
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00:05:05,513 --> 00:05:08,474
I will want to connect
with multiple people,"
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00:05:08,516 --> 00:05:11,019
but I always want Josh
to be my anchor partner,
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and I know that I want, like,
other people to bring out new
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parts of me
and new sides of me.
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So...
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And I love that Josh and Lorena
get to do that for each other,
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especially because I can be
so invested in my career and...
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What's the career?
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Training and
performing circus.
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So I split time
between New York, Las Vegas,
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and touring around the
country slash cruise ships
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and the Mediterranean.
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-So...
-[Josh and Lorena laugh]
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When I first, like, decided
to commit to circus full time,
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it really took me on the road.
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So tell me something about that.
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I'm, like...
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the "local partner," I guess?
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Or I don't really know if
I actually have a word;
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that's the first time I've
ever said that out loud.
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That's the first time you've
ever said that, for sure.
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-But, like--
-The local partner? Okay.
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It's interesting 'cause I get
to spend way more time with Josh
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than Aryn does.
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00:06:03,571 --> 00:06:06,699
And so, like a
year into us dating,
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00:06:06,741 --> 00:06:09,744
Josh was like, "What's
our future together?"
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00:06:09,786 --> 00:06:11,913
And I was like, "Um...
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I don't-- I don't think
about the future, really.
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Like, um..."
[laughs]
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It's just not...
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00:06:17,168 --> 00:06:19,045
You wanna talk about why you
don't think about the future?
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00:06:19,087 --> 00:06:20,213
Yeah, I mean, definitely!
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So, like-- so my mom, uh...
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had ovarian cancer,
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and she was given a month
to live and proceeded to live
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for another seven years.
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Wow.
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00:06:31,891 --> 00:06:36,604
But there was, like, seven years
of this intensity of, like,
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-"When is she gonna die?"
-Right.
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[Lorena] And so thinking
about the future became, like,
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the enemy.
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00:06:41,025 --> 00:06:45,947
I have, like, a hyper response
of fear and dread and just that
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it means death, and, uh--
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How old were you
when she was diagnosed?
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00:06:50,284 --> 00:06:53,788
I was a senior in
college, so 21? 22?
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[Josh] I think that's, like,
important to know, right?
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00:06:55,289 --> 00:06:59,419
It's like her entire 20s
were essentially taken by...
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00:06:59,460 --> 00:07:01,921
the impending dread
of her mom passing.
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00:07:01,963 --> 00:07:06,259
And that then definitely,
definitely compromises my, like,
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00:07:06,300 --> 00:07:08,261
capacity -- especially then --
and just, like,
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00:07:08,302 --> 00:07:10,763
ability to even
be in the conversation,
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let alone, like, have it.
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Just being like, "Oh my God."
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I just, like,
immediately don't feel safe.
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Like, "I don't wanna
talk about the future."
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00:07:15,476 --> 00:07:19,772
Like, I-- I, like, just
had this somatic experience.
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00:07:19,814 --> 00:07:23,276
And so for me, I had this
continuous feeling that Lorena
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-was just gonna vanish...
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
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'Cause we would have
these hot-cold experiences,
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-not full communication...
-Mm-hm.
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And so I was like,
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"Okay, we can't plan
anything that's more than
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a week away,
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00:07:34,996 --> 00:07:36,664
you love me,
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00:07:36,706 --> 00:07:39,000
I love you...
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00:07:39,041 --> 00:07:41,169
What does a future
even look like?"
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00:07:41,210 --> 00:07:41,919
Mm-hm.
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We're not doing, like, the
heteronormative traditional path
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of, like, we're not
gonna get married,
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and I'm like, "Ooh, the
easy balls are, like, out,"
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00:07:50,511 --> 00:07:52,805
and I wanted Aryn in
the conversation too,
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00:07:52,847 --> 00:07:55,308
'cause I was like, "I
don't really know...
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Where do I fit?"
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00:07:56,851 --> 00:07:58,478
And at the time,
you guys were, like,
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00:07:58,519 --> 00:08:01,981
primary partners, and that meant
something very specific to me,
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00:08:02,023 --> 00:08:04,150
which was like, "Well,
I'm your secondary partner,
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00:08:04,192 --> 00:08:06,152
so, like, I don't really...
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00:08:06,194 --> 00:08:07,653
I don't know what
you guys are doing,
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00:08:07,695 --> 00:08:09,989
so in that...
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00:08:10,031 --> 00:08:12,283
alignment...
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00:08:13,409 --> 00:08:15,828
what does that look like?"
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♪moody synth music♪
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[chuckling] Oh my God...
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[whispering] Babe, stop!
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00:08:52,073 --> 00:08:54,033
Sit down.
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00:08:55,243 --> 00:08:57,870
[laughs]
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00:08:59,914 --> 00:09:02,375
[Rex VO] It was a hidden
relationship from her mother...
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00:09:02,416 --> 00:09:05,044
-[Orna] Uh-huh.
-For I think six years?
192
00:09:05,086 --> 00:09:06,921
Why was it hidden?
193
00:09:06,963 --> 00:09:10,550
'Cause she's a
Christian, I'm also Christian.
194
00:09:10,591 --> 00:09:15,596
It was a non-negotiable that my
partner had to be a Christian.
195
00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:17,431
What was your affiliation?
196
00:09:17,473 --> 00:09:19,392
I was pretty much atheist.
197
00:09:19,433 --> 00:09:20,059
[Orna] Mm-hm.
198
00:09:20,101 --> 00:09:22,603
I didn't meet the
prerequisites right off the bat.
199
00:09:22,645 --> 00:09:23,563
[Orna] Mm-hm.
200
00:09:23,604 --> 00:09:25,064
[Joey] I was living with my mom.
201
00:09:25,106 --> 00:09:25,773
Mm-hm.
202
00:09:25,815 --> 00:09:30,069
I thought that once we got
married and we were living
203
00:09:30,111 --> 00:09:34,574
together, things would improve
between my mom and my husband,
204
00:09:34,615 --> 00:09:36,784
and that did not happen.
205
00:09:36,826 --> 00:09:40,580
It actually
progressively became worse.
206
00:09:40,621 --> 00:09:41,414
What was going on?
207
00:09:41,414 --> 00:09:44,792
Every day, I would be subjected
to her saying something really
208
00:09:44,834 --> 00:09:47,253
negative, and...
209
00:09:47,295 --> 00:09:50,798
at some point, she just stopped
acknowledging us all together.
210
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:51,591
Oh!
211
00:09:51,591 --> 00:09:55,094
She pretty much told me that
[chuckling] she had thought he
212
00:09:55,136 --> 00:09:56,762
was, like, the Devil.
213
00:09:56,804 --> 00:09:59,473
She told me she had
seen, like, a vision,
214
00:09:59,515 --> 00:10:01,767
-and that she believed--
-[Orna] She'd seen a vision?
215
00:10:01,809 --> 00:10:06,814
Yeah, she had seen a vision
that he was a black blob...
216
00:10:06,897 --> 00:10:08,274
-Headless...
-Representing a demon--
217
00:10:08,316 --> 00:10:09,942
-[Orna] What did you say?
-Headless...
218
00:10:09,984 --> 00:10:13,154
Headless-- no, bodiless and...
219
00:10:13,195 --> 00:10:15,448
being dragged around.
220
00:10:15,489 --> 00:10:18,993
Uh, Rex, what do you--
tell me your...
221
00:10:20,661 --> 00:10:23,789
version of what's going on.
222
00:10:23,831 --> 00:10:27,960
We just tried to
conclude that it was because...
223
00:10:28,002 --> 00:10:31,297
Joey was just living
with her mom for...
224
00:10:31,339 --> 00:10:35,301
over 30 years, and I'm just a
new man in the house and she's
225
00:10:35,343 --> 00:10:37,678
just not comfortable with that.
226
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,807
But I didn't really
feel affected by...
227
00:10:41,849 --> 00:10:43,643
her mom.
228
00:10:43,684 --> 00:10:45,144
How do you do that?
229
00:10:45,186 --> 00:10:47,480
She doesn't really
attack me at all,
230
00:10:47,521 --> 00:10:48,814
she...
231
00:10:48,856 --> 00:10:52,151
really just goes
behind me and...
232
00:10:52,193 --> 00:10:55,988
yells at-- yells
everything at Joey
233
00:10:56,030 --> 00:10:57,490
in Korean.
234
00:10:57,531 --> 00:10:59,992
[Joey] I didn't know
what to do, honestly.
235
00:11:00,034 --> 00:11:03,329
I had very
complicated emotions of...
236
00:11:03,371 --> 00:11:04,664
"Could she be right?"
237
00:11:04,705 --> 00:11:05,373
[chuckles]
238
00:11:05,414 --> 00:11:10,044
"Maybe I am making the
biggest mistake of my life or...
239
00:11:10,086 --> 00:11:14,006
or maybe I have to sever my
relationship with my mom to
240
00:11:14,048 --> 00:11:15,549
protect my marriage,"
241
00:11:15,591 --> 00:11:18,344
and that's kind
of what we did.
242
00:11:18,386 --> 00:11:19,679
-In December...
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
243
00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,683
We-- I actively
looked for places for her,
244
00:11:23,724 --> 00:11:25,851
and I found an
apartment for her,
245
00:11:25,893 --> 00:11:28,396
and now, it's been...
246
00:11:28,437 --> 00:11:30,690
four months since
we've been living apart.
247
00:11:30,731 --> 00:11:32,024
[Orna] Mm-hm.
248
00:11:32,066 --> 00:11:33,859
Not talking.
249
00:11:34,110 --> 00:11:36,362
Not talking since
the end of January,
250
00:11:36,404 --> 00:11:39,198
so I haven't spoken to her.
[inhales deeply]
251
00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,034
But I was so broken, you know?
252
00:11:42,076 --> 00:11:47,164
Like, I was so heartbroken that
this is our situation and...
253
00:11:48,249 --> 00:11:50,584
that's when I knew, like...
254
00:11:50,626 --> 00:11:51,877
-I'm not okay.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
255
00:11:51,919 --> 00:11:53,421
Like, I'm still
working through this.
256
00:11:53,462 --> 00:11:56,716
Like, four months is
not enough time to...
257
00:11:56,757 --> 00:12:00,720
detach all this
codependency, deep-rooted...
258
00:12:00,761 --> 00:12:03,723
whatever I have
with my mom, and...
259
00:12:03,764 --> 00:12:05,391
I just don't wanna
accept that this is, like,
260
00:12:05,433 --> 00:12:07,893
my reality but...
261
00:12:07,935 --> 00:12:12,064
I don't know what
else to do, and...
262
00:12:12,106 --> 00:12:13,899
I also wanna
protect my marriage, too,
263
00:12:13,941 --> 00:12:16,777
'cause I chose this,
and I don't regret it.
264
00:12:16,819 --> 00:12:20,072
Tell me more about what's
going on between the two of you.
265
00:12:20,114 --> 00:12:22,074
Because she was
so against him,
266
00:12:22,116 --> 00:12:25,077
when she said
things that would...
267
00:12:25,119 --> 00:12:28,080
make me wonder, like,
why she doesn't like him,
268
00:12:28,122 --> 00:12:31,917
it's hard to not have some kind
of doubt that crosses your mind
269
00:12:31,959 --> 00:12:34,420
to be like, "Maybe I'm
not-- maybe she's right,
270
00:12:34,462 --> 00:12:35,755
maybe I'm making
the wrong choice,"
271
00:12:35,796 --> 00:12:37,923
so there was a lot of
that fear in my marriage.
272
00:12:37,965 --> 00:12:39,925
-Can I stop you for a second?
-[Joey] Absolutely.
273
00:12:39,967 --> 00:12:42,470
How do you feel hearing that?
274
00:12:42,762 --> 00:12:45,306
Again, unaffected.
275
00:12:45,347 --> 00:12:46,766
-[Orna] You feel unaffected...
-Yes.
276
00:12:46,807 --> 00:12:48,434
[Orna] By that?
277
00:12:48,476 --> 00:12:49,602
Yes.
278
00:12:49,643 --> 00:12:50,060
[chuckles]
279
00:12:50,102 --> 00:12:52,980
Um...
any thoughts on that?
280
00:12:53,022 --> 00:12:56,484
I always want him to communicate
and express more of his
281
00:12:56,525 --> 00:12:57,234
emotions, and so--
282
00:12:57,276 --> 00:13:00,613
But there's one thing that
has to do with communication,
283
00:13:00,654 --> 00:13:03,783
but Rex, you're
saying you're unaffected.
284
00:13:03,824 --> 00:13:08,913
Joey's talking about how her
mother inserts doubt into her.
285
00:13:10,164 --> 00:13:11,499
Right.
286
00:13:11,540 --> 00:13:15,503
[Orna] And you're saying
you're not affected by that.
287
00:13:15,753 --> 00:13:17,963
I'm just surprised.
288
00:13:18,005 --> 00:13:21,842
I always worry he's
repressing things and,
289
00:13:21,884 --> 00:13:24,303
at the moment, he
thinks he's unaffected...
290
00:13:24,345 --> 00:13:24,970
[Orna] Mm-hm.
291
00:13:24,970 --> 00:13:28,349
But, later on, it's
gonna explode in some way,
292
00:13:28,390 --> 00:13:29,642
-and then--
-Does it?
293
00:13:29,683 --> 00:13:32,144
I know that whenever
we get into arguments,
294
00:13:32,186 --> 00:13:35,481
it's almost like
we're breaking up.
295
00:13:35,523 --> 00:13:37,691
So then I'm just--
I cave;
296
00:13:37,733 --> 00:13:40,027
every single time, I cave.
297
00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:41,654
[Orna] You cave
and what happens?
298
00:13:41,695 --> 00:13:44,990
Like, "You're right,
you're right, I'm sorry."
299
00:13:45,157 --> 00:13:47,159
It's always your way.
300
00:13:47,201 --> 00:13:48,494
It has to be your way.
301
00:13:48,536 --> 00:13:50,496
My opinions...
302
00:13:50,538 --> 00:13:52,665
don't matter.
303
00:13:52,706 --> 00:13:56,335
♪tender synth music♪
304
00:13:56,377 --> 00:13:58,003
[Orna, in high pitch]
Come on, Nico!
305
00:13:58,045 --> 00:14:01,465
-Hi, [in Hebrew] honey!
-Hi, [in Hebrew] honey!
306
00:14:02,591 --> 00:14:06,178
I thought that the
way to do it is to say,
307
00:14:06,220 --> 00:14:09,306
"Okay, think about identity."
308
00:14:11,892 --> 00:14:13,561
[Orna] Oh my God,
look at the stage!
309
00:14:13,602 --> 00:14:14,895
Orna, nice to meet you.
310
00:14:14,937 --> 00:14:16,897
-[Eyal] Eyal, nice to meet you.
-Nice to meet you.
311
00:14:16,939 --> 00:14:19,567
Like 150 people...
312
00:14:19,608 --> 00:14:22,695
It would be good-- obviously,
we wanna be able to see
313
00:14:22,736 --> 00:14:23,863
the audience so we can...
314
00:14:23,904 --> 00:14:25,197
Very little difference between
315
00:14:25,239 --> 00:14:27,241
-the stage and audience.
-[Orna] Great.
316
00:14:27,283 --> 00:14:29,743
-♪♪♪
-[applause]
317
00:14:29,785 --> 00:14:30,411
Welcome.
318
00:14:30,452 --> 00:14:33,038
We've been working on
this presentation for
319
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:34,707
more than a year.
320
00:14:34,748 --> 00:14:36,250
Really excited.
321
00:14:36,292 --> 00:14:38,586
[Eyal VO] We all live with
some level of discomfort,
322
00:14:38,627 --> 00:14:39,879
sometimes shame.
323
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,882
And for me,
psychoanalysis is about...
324
00:14:42,923 --> 00:14:46,385
allowing someone else
into those private parts,
325
00:14:46,427 --> 00:14:48,721
and then life
becomes more real,
326
00:14:48,762 --> 00:14:51,056
less alienated.
327
00:14:51,098 --> 00:14:53,392
[Orna VO] Some decades ago,
couples therapy work was all
328
00:14:53,434 --> 00:14:55,227
about active listening,
329
00:14:55,269 --> 00:14:56,937
like validating and...
330
00:14:56,979 --> 00:14:58,731
So yeah, active
listening is good,
331
00:14:58,772 --> 00:15:00,566
validating is good,
332
00:15:00,608 --> 00:15:03,402
but really, what couples
are fighting about are, like,
333
00:15:03,444 --> 00:15:05,070
real issues.
334
00:15:05,112 --> 00:15:08,240
Communication is just,
like, where it shows up.
335
00:15:08,282 --> 00:15:09,909
When we first met, how
many jobs did I have?!
336
00:15:09,950 --> 00:15:11,243
I worked two jobs
and I went to school!
337
00:15:11,285 --> 00:15:12,036
Comparing again!
338
00:15:12,036 --> 00:15:16,582
[Orna VO] What psychoanalysis
introduced was the idea that we
339
00:15:16,624 --> 00:15:20,294
are motivated by
unconscious forces.
340
00:15:20,336 --> 00:15:23,088
We know that what
people are saying
341
00:15:23,130 --> 00:15:26,425
is only part of
what's going on.
342
00:15:26,634 --> 00:15:31,096
Analysts listen for
unconscious material,
343
00:15:31,138 --> 00:15:35,434
and how the past
might be hijacking
344
00:15:35,476 --> 00:15:38,771
their experience right now.
345
00:15:41,523 --> 00:15:42,775
-Hello!
-[both] Hi!
346
00:15:42,816 --> 00:15:44,401
[Orna] Hi!
347
00:15:47,696 --> 00:15:49,281
[Elíana] I feel like I
have a lot riding on this,
348
00:15:49,323 --> 00:15:51,784
like for me and my
kid -- or our kid.
349
00:15:51,825 --> 00:15:53,118
-Yeah.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
350
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,287
And, like, I may be
a little prideful,
351
00:15:55,329 --> 00:15:56,664
but I don't like to
get things wrong.
352
00:15:56,705 --> 00:15:58,624
[chuckles]
So, like, I feel like...
353
00:15:58,665 --> 00:16:01,627
it would be me getting
another relationship wrong.
354
00:16:01,669 --> 00:16:02,836
Mm.
355
00:16:02,878 --> 00:16:04,630
[Elíana] Because, right
now, we live separate.
356
00:16:04,672 --> 00:16:05,172
[Orna] Mm-hm.
357
00:16:05,214 --> 00:16:08,300
He lives with his
mother in the Bronx,
358
00:16:08,342 --> 00:16:10,970
and I live with our son
by myself in Brooklyn.
359
00:16:11,011 --> 00:16:11,804
[Orna] Mm-hm.
360
00:16:11,845 --> 00:16:13,806
And then he comes over...
361
00:16:13,847 --> 00:16:16,350
we'll round it out to about 32
hours, something like that,
362
00:16:16,392 --> 00:16:18,310
so he comes in on
Wednesday night and he leaves
363
00:16:18,352 --> 00:16:20,145
Friday morning.
364
00:16:20,187 --> 00:16:21,480
I feel like a rent-a-wife.
365
00:16:21,522 --> 00:16:23,482
Like, it's like,
"Okay, you get to...
366
00:16:23,524 --> 00:16:24,984
come over,
367
00:16:25,025 --> 00:16:27,528
you wanna have sex,
you wanna be intimate,
368
00:16:27,569 --> 00:16:29,321
you wanna eat the
food from my house,
369
00:16:29,363 --> 00:16:31,824
but then you get to go back to
your mom's house and not worry
370
00:16:31,865 --> 00:16:35,995
about daycare and drop-offs and
pick-ups and food and laundry."
371
00:16:36,036 --> 00:16:37,496
You're smiling.
372
00:16:37,538 --> 00:16:38,497
Yeah.
373
00:16:38,539 --> 00:16:39,999
What are you thinking?
374
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,710
She's expressed her desire
to have me around full time,
375
00:16:42,751 --> 00:16:44,169
and I wanna be around full time.
376
00:16:44,211 --> 00:16:45,671
-[Orna] You do?
-Yeah!
377
00:16:45,713 --> 00:16:46,714
So when I--
378
00:16:46,755 --> 00:16:48,716
So both of you
wish for that?
379
00:16:48,757 --> 00:16:50,009
-Mm-hm.
-Absolutely.
380
00:16:50,050 --> 00:16:53,721
So when I spoke to her
about being full time,
381
00:16:53,762 --> 00:16:57,016
she says, "Okay, well, you know,
because our son is at the age
382
00:16:57,057 --> 00:16:59,852
where routine is
very important for him,
383
00:16:59,893 --> 00:17:04,565
let's sort of, like, slowly
phase you into our schedule."
384
00:17:04,606 --> 00:17:06,858
The literal next
day, she changes;
385
00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:10,029
she says, "I'd only
feel right about it if...
386
00:17:10,069 --> 00:17:11,905
we got engaged first,"
because, essentially,
387
00:17:11,946 --> 00:17:14,366
she needed the commitment
388
00:17:14,407 --> 00:17:17,202
before being able to
move forward with me being
389
00:17:17,243 --> 00:17:18,871
in the home full time.
390
00:17:18,912 --> 00:17:20,079
So you're moving the goalpost.
391
00:17:20,122 --> 00:17:21,749
-It's sort of--
-Can we-- I get that.
392
00:17:21,790 --> 00:17:22,915
Can we backtrack?
393
00:17:22,958 --> 00:17:25,919
Tell me how you
arrived at this point.
394
00:17:25,961 --> 00:17:27,713
Did you live together before?...
395
00:17:27,755 --> 00:17:29,048
[Elíana] Exactly,
we did live together.
396
00:17:29,089 --> 00:17:31,258
-How did we get to this point?
-[Elíana] Okay.
397
00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:32,217
[Orna] You're smiling.
398
00:17:32,259 --> 00:17:33,719
Yeah, so, uh...
399
00:17:33,761 --> 00:17:34,887
[chuckles]
400
00:17:34,928 --> 00:17:36,555
-Uh...
-[Orna] You're both smiling!
401
00:17:36,597 --> 00:17:39,391
[chuckling] Yeah, so we--
we did live together before.
402
00:17:39,433 --> 00:17:41,393
We didn't get along at all.
403
00:17:41,435 --> 00:17:42,019
Uh-huh!
404
00:17:42,019 --> 00:17:44,396
And we're laughing
about it because, like...
405
00:17:44,438 --> 00:17:45,564
-you know, we've--
-It was stupid.
406
00:17:45,606 --> 00:17:46,732
-Yeah!
-Like, like--
407
00:17:46,774 --> 00:17:47,483
In retrospect, yeah.
408
00:17:47,483 --> 00:17:51,570
Like, we didn't talk, really,
about, like, expectations,
409
00:17:51,612 --> 00:17:54,073
and this is
gonna sound like...
410
00:17:54,114 --> 00:17:56,742
I'm sorry,
[chuckling] but, like...
411
00:17:56,784 --> 00:17:58,577
my man didn't even know
how to clean a bathroom,
412
00:17:58,619 --> 00:18:01,288
so, like, that would
lit-- like, in my mind,
413
00:18:01,330 --> 00:18:04,750
I'm like, "How have you
been walking this Earth...
414
00:18:04,792 --> 00:18:06,752
for 25 years at the time,
415
00:18:06,794 --> 00:18:08,253
and not know how to
clean a bathroom?"
416
00:18:08,295 --> 00:18:10,756
My delivery is
something I've been working on.
417
00:18:10,798 --> 00:18:14,259
I would be like,
"How in the fuck?"
418
00:18:14,301 --> 00:18:14,760
[Orna] Mm-hm.
419
00:18:14,802 --> 00:18:16,929
And I would be
very angry with him.
420
00:18:16,970 --> 00:18:18,806
And what do you
think of that, Mitch?
421
00:18:18,847 --> 00:18:20,099
[Mitch] Um...
422
00:18:20,140 --> 00:18:20,766
[chuckling] You
have some feelings?
423
00:18:20,808 --> 00:18:21,934
It was awful.
424
00:18:21,975 --> 00:18:22,935
[chuckling] Honestly.
425
00:18:22,976 --> 00:18:24,478
It was awful.
426
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,814
Her communicating
to me about, like,
427
00:18:26,855 --> 00:18:29,316
cleaning, it's just like,
"Okay, so you didn't...
428
00:18:29,358 --> 00:18:31,777
know how to clean a bathroom.
429
00:18:31,819 --> 00:18:34,488
Who do you think
cleaned it, fairies?"
430
00:18:34,530 --> 00:18:37,282
You're attacking me
instead of us attack the issue.
431
00:18:37,324 --> 00:18:38,826
That sort of takes
us off the course,
432
00:18:38,867 --> 00:18:42,955
and doesn't necessarily help
us win at the end of the day,
433
00:18:42,996 --> 00:18:46,125
and a win in that situation
would have been her teaching me
434
00:18:46,166 --> 00:18:47,292
-how to clean...
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
435
00:18:47,334 --> 00:18:48,961
The bathroom,
436
00:18:49,002 --> 00:18:52,506
which would result in
having a clean bathroom.
437
00:18:52,548 --> 00:18:55,008
What ended up happening is he
decided one morning that he was
438
00:18:55,050 --> 00:18:58,637
just gonna pack up and
go from that apartment,
439
00:18:58,679 --> 00:19:01,306
and he was like, "Hey,
this is not working out."
440
00:19:01,348 --> 00:19:02,975
You're missing a
lot of context...
441
00:19:03,016 --> 00:19:03,600
Okay.
442
00:19:03,642 --> 00:19:06,145
As to what happened
that led to me leaving,
443
00:19:06,186 --> 00:19:09,148
because it wasn't just me
deciding to leave one day.
444
00:19:09,189 --> 00:19:10,691
You know that.
445
00:19:10,732 --> 00:19:14,153
I decided to leave the home
because this was a sinking ship,
446
00:19:14,194 --> 00:19:17,865
and me leaving would
have saved our ship.
447
00:19:17,906 --> 00:19:20,325
She took it as me
quitting on her.
448
00:19:20,367 --> 00:19:23,328
I'm not running away,
I'm trying to save us,
449
00:19:23,370 --> 00:19:24,037
and...
450
00:19:24,079 --> 00:19:26,206
How did you feel leaving?
451
00:19:26,248 --> 00:19:28,000
I feel like...
452
00:19:28,041 --> 00:19:30,335
the captain of a ship
453
00:19:30,377 --> 00:19:33,297
where my crew mate
doesn't trust me.
454
00:19:35,549 --> 00:19:39,344
I kind of missed how your
son came into the picture,
455
00:19:39,386 --> 00:19:41,513
so how did that happen?
456
00:19:41,555 --> 00:19:44,391
We ended up hanging out a
lot more and just, like,
457
00:19:44,433 --> 00:19:46,393
getting back into,
like, our normal thing.
458
00:19:46,435 --> 00:19:48,854
I was just like,
459
00:19:48,896 --> 00:19:52,357
"I'll be 30 in...
460
00:19:52,399 --> 00:19:54,860
a little over a year."
461
00:19:54,902 --> 00:19:57,196
-Mm-hm.
-"So, like...
462
00:19:57,237 --> 00:19:58,697
are you okay with having a kid?
463
00:19:58,739 --> 00:20:01,366
Like, is that something
that we're gonna do?"
464
00:20:01,408 --> 00:20:04,912
It was a decision that I
was comfortable with because,
465
00:20:04,953 --> 00:20:06,538
at the time, we were
in a very good space,
466
00:20:06,580 --> 00:20:08,874
and we were in a
good space for...
467
00:20:08,916 --> 00:20:11,376
for, uh, months at a time.
468
00:20:11,418 --> 00:20:11,960
Mm!
469
00:20:12,002 --> 00:20:15,589
I was like, "Look,
like, I've had a very...
470
00:20:15,631 --> 00:20:17,591
hard time conceiving
and stuff like that,
471
00:20:17,633 --> 00:20:20,219
and that was ultimately
one of the issues with
472
00:20:20,260 --> 00:20:21,887
my ex-husband and I."
473
00:20:21,929 --> 00:20:26,058
Our son was my sixth pregnancy;
I had five miscarriages before.
474
00:20:26,099 --> 00:20:27,559
It was a very big deal to me.
475
00:20:27,601 --> 00:20:29,186
[Orna] Mm-hm.
476
00:20:29,228 --> 00:20:31,563
[Elíana] But now, it doesn't
feel like we're a partnership in
477
00:20:31,605 --> 00:20:33,065
most cases.
478
00:20:33,106 --> 00:20:34,608
Like, this is
a relationship,
479
00:20:34,650 --> 00:20:36,068
but I felt like
coming back home,
480
00:20:36,109 --> 00:20:37,903
I was coming
back home to a teenager,
481
00:20:37,945 --> 00:20:38,654
to be like, "Did
he do the dishes?
482
00:20:38,654 --> 00:20:41,573
Did he take out, you know,
the fish from the freezer?"
483
00:20:41,615 --> 00:20:45,953
-- bare minimal things that
if I had a 15-year-old kid
484
00:20:45,994 --> 00:20:48,413
living with me would know...
485
00:20:48,455 --> 00:20:50,791
that they would have to
take care of these things.
486
00:20:50,832 --> 00:20:52,292
What are you thinking, Mitch?
487
00:20:52,334 --> 00:20:55,754
Her comparing my actions
to a 15-year-old kid...
488
00:20:55,796 --> 00:20:57,089
[Orna] Yeah.
489
00:20:57,130 --> 00:21:00,092
She doesn't see how
this is offensive at all.
490
00:21:00,133 --> 00:21:03,262
If you love someone, you
treat them with respect,
491
00:21:03,303 --> 00:21:05,973
because why would you wanna
attack the character of someone
492
00:21:06,014 --> 00:21:08,141
you love?
493
00:21:09,810 --> 00:21:14,815
♪pensive quirky music♪
494
00:21:41,508 --> 00:21:42,843
Okay, so look...
495
00:21:42,884 --> 00:21:44,303
This is...
496
00:21:44,344 --> 00:21:46,346
the aliens...
497
00:21:46,388 --> 00:21:47,472
What?!
498
00:21:47,514 --> 00:21:49,308
[man] This is the mothership.
499
00:21:49,349 --> 00:21:51,643
And then it's coming
to attack the building.
500
00:21:51,685 --> 00:21:53,854
And then this is the
blood that's shedding.
501
00:21:53,895 --> 00:21:57,482
And then these are the feets
of the people who ran away.
502
00:21:57,524 --> 00:21:59,651
You don't see that?
503
00:22:03,363 --> 00:22:05,324
If we're not
currently, like,
504
00:22:05,365 --> 00:22:06,992
-fighting about something...
-[Orna VO] Mm-hm.
505
00:22:07,034 --> 00:22:09,161
[Casimar VO] It's just,
like, super blissful.
506
00:22:09,202 --> 00:22:09,703
I see.
507
00:22:09,703 --> 00:22:12,331
And then the second
something happens,
508
00:22:12,372 --> 00:22:14,499
it's like the
walls are caving in,
509
00:22:14,541 --> 00:22:17,502
the ground opens up,
the bats fly out...it's crazy.
510
00:22:17,544 --> 00:22:19,504
Yeah, no, that's the thing
about our relationship:
511
00:22:19,546 --> 00:22:23,842
that when it's good, it's
really, really good, and...
512
00:22:23,884 --> 00:22:26,678
it just takes,
like, a pin drop,
513
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,348
and then it's [chuckling]
really, really bad.
514
00:22:29,389 --> 00:22:30,640
So...
515
00:22:30,682 --> 00:22:33,518
maybe you're both
really good dissociaters?
516
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,687
-Well, I am, for sure. [laughs]
-Well, funny enough...
517
00:22:35,729 --> 00:22:37,898
-[Orna] Uh-huh.
-[Alexes] Yeah.
518
00:22:37,939 --> 00:22:40,359
He actually dissociates.
519
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,237
So, do you wanna just help me--
just how much do you dissociate?
520
00:22:44,279 --> 00:22:46,490
What's your...?
521
00:22:47,741 --> 00:22:49,701
We're jumping right in,
so tell me your speed.
522
00:22:49,743 --> 00:22:50,702
I mean,
[chuckling] apparently...
523
00:22:50,744 --> 00:22:53,246
[cracks knuckles]
um...
524
00:22:54,414 --> 00:22:56,375
[sighs]
525
00:22:56,416 --> 00:22:59,544
You look like you...
526
00:22:59,586 --> 00:23:00,879
think it's...
527
00:23:00,921 --> 00:23:03,715
the best to not say anything.
528
00:23:05,092 --> 00:23:06,885
Sometimes, it's
easier for me to speak,
529
00:23:06,927 --> 00:23:08,929
-and then he'll jump in.
-Yeah, yeah, yeah.
530
00:23:08,970 --> 00:23:11,556
So I-- I guess
there's just kind of, like,
531
00:23:11,598 --> 00:23:14,601
a moment where it just
gets so heightened to the point
532
00:23:14,643 --> 00:23:18,897
that his conscious self is
like, "I can't do this anymore."
533
00:23:18,939 --> 00:23:23,235
And, like, he won't
remember the rest of the night.
534
00:23:23,610 --> 00:23:24,736
So...
535
00:23:24,778 --> 00:23:26,571
So...you dissociate.
536
00:23:26,613 --> 00:23:27,447
[Alexes] Yeah.
537
00:23:27,489 --> 00:23:28,740
[Orna] Okay.
538
00:23:28,782 --> 00:23:32,244
So you're saying your
relationship goes through
539
00:23:32,285 --> 00:23:33,912
certain periods
that you're like this,
540
00:23:33,954 --> 00:23:36,581
and then other periods
when the bats are out?
541
00:23:36,623 --> 00:23:40,085
Yeah, there are some times when
we have [chuckling] one fight...
542
00:23:40,127 --> 00:23:41,420
Yeah, and then
we're, like, fight--
543
00:23:41,461 --> 00:23:43,964
It's, like, three
months of, like...
544
00:23:44,005 --> 00:23:45,924
a struggle to...
545
00:23:45,966 --> 00:23:47,300
[Orna] To get
back from the fight?
546
00:23:47,342 --> 00:23:48,301
Yeah.
547
00:23:48,343 --> 00:23:50,595
What are the main issues?
548
00:23:50,637 --> 00:23:52,264
[Alexes] Family dynamics.
549
00:23:52,305 --> 00:23:56,810
I don't have family because
I've ex-communicated from...
550
00:23:56,852 --> 00:24:00,605
myself from the family
who's been very abusive to me,
551
00:24:00,647 --> 00:24:03,108
but then his dynamic
with his family...
552
00:24:03,150 --> 00:24:06,820
he will still defend them, even
if they're hurtful towards him.
553
00:24:06,862 --> 00:24:11,283
And in all of our issues,
I think this is our main...
554
00:24:11,324 --> 00:24:13,285
like, catalyst that...
555
00:24:13,326 --> 00:24:15,954
we come from very
different perspectives.
556
00:24:15,996 --> 00:24:16,538
[Orna] Mm-hm.
557
00:24:16,580 --> 00:24:18,457
Because you'll have
different versions?
558
00:24:18,498 --> 00:24:21,001
[Casimar] Not only
different ver-- actually...
559
00:24:21,042 --> 00:24:22,127
[chuckling] Yes,
we will have diff--
560
00:24:22,169 --> 00:24:24,629
No, we will have
the same version!
561
00:24:24,671 --> 00:24:26,465
-I don't think so.
-We don't make up stuff.
562
00:24:26,506 --> 00:24:28,467
What we have are
different feelings.
563
00:24:28,508 --> 00:24:31,136
To the both of us,
this is right here.
564
00:24:31,178 --> 00:24:32,637
-No...
-I just see it from this angle;
565
00:24:32,679 --> 00:24:35,682
I see the logo and you don't.
566
00:24:35,891 --> 00:24:38,518
-No...
-You see the logo?
567
00:24:39,019 --> 00:24:41,480
I see the...
568
00:24:41,521 --> 00:24:44,149
the bottle about to explode,
569
00:24:44,191 --> 00:24:45,650
and me...
570
00:24:45,692 --> 00:24:49,529
holding it together
and my hands bleeding.
571
00:24:49,571 --> 00:24:52,657
You're saying you
feel things intensely.
572
00:24:52,699 --> 00:24:56,161
If something is really bad,
you're saying you just go...
573
00:24:56,203 --> 00:24:58,497
to sever the relationship,
574
00:24:58,538 --> 00:25:01,333
so that's kind of
an intense reaction.
575
00:25:01,374 --> 00:25:01,917
Yeah, for sure.
576
00:25:01,958 --> 00:25:06,671
And you're saying
about Casimar, you...
577
00:25:06,713 --> 00:25:09,049
-I guess tolerate more?
-Well, yeah, because--
578
00:25:09,090 --> 00:25:12,385
[Orna] Or you don't have
that intensity of a reaction?
579
00:25:12,427 --> 00:25:15,347
To you, it's not an
exploding bottle.
580
00:25:15,388 --> 00:25:17,182
Yeah, to me, it's not
an exploding bottle.
581
00:25:17,224 --> 00:25:17,724
[Orna] Right.
582
00:25:17,766 --> 00:25:21,394
What would be your
response to that?
583
00:25:25,232 --> 00:25:27,901
[Casimar sighs]
584
00:25:31,404 --> 00:25:33,031
I'm afraid of the fighting.
585
00:25:33,073 --> 00:25:33,865
[Orna] Mm-hm.
586
00:25:33,907 --> 00:25:35,742
I'm afraid of...
[sighs]
587
00:25:35,784 --> 00:25:38,828
It's the
intensity of the fights.
588
00:25:42,415 --> 00:25:43,416
What happens?
589
00:25:43,458 --> 00:25:47,045
I don't like--
like, it's the yelling,
590
00:25:47,087 --> 00:25:49,047
the drinking,
591
00:25:49,089 --> 00:25:50,882
the...
592
00:25:50,924 --> 00:25:52,717
name calling,
593
00:25:52,759 --> 00:25:54,386
and when it
gets to that point,
594
00:25:54,427 --> 00:25:56,596
it feels helpless.
595
00:25:56,638 --> 00:25:57,138
[Orna] Mm-hm.
596
00:25:57,138 --> 00:25:59,933
-He's my best friend!
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
597
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,019
I want it to work.
598
00:26:06,940 --> 00:26:09,734
I don't want the anger.
599
00:26:10,777 --> 00:26:12,404
[Orna] Mm-hm.
600
00:26:12,445 --> 00:26:14,030
What are you thinking?
601
00:26:14,072 --> 00:26:16,575
I mean, this is kind of where
I was talking about the bottle
602
00:26:16,616 --> 00:26:17,909
-earlier.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
603
00:26:17,951 --> 00:26:22,080
That I do want the
anger sometimes.
604
00:26:22,455 --> 00:26:27,627
♪jaunty rock music♪
605
00:26:33,633 --> 00:26:36,303
♪I'm tied inside a net♪
606
00:26:36,511 --> 00:26:39,097
♪Tired of breathing sweat♪
607
00:26:39,306 --> 00:26:41,808
♪I got a cloud
around my head♪
608
00:26:42,017 --> 00:26:44,644
♪Babe, believe what I said♪
609
00:26:44,769 --> 00:26:47,105
♪Inside lookin' out♪
610
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,649
♪Got no place to shout♪
611
00:26:49,691 --> 00:26:51,610
♪Don't crowd me♪
612
00:26:51,860 --> 00:26:54,154
♪Yeah, don't crowd me♪
613
00:26:54,195 --> 00:26:57,073
♪Oh, baby, don't crowd me♪
614
00:26:57,365 --> 00:26:59,326
♪Don't push me in♪
615
00:27:00,827 --> 00:27:03,163
♪Man, get outta my way♪
616
00:27:03,413 --> 00:27:05,790
♪I'm sick of
trying to stay♪
617
00:27:05,832 --> 00:27:07,626
♪Don't crowd me♪
618
00:27:07,667 --> 00:27:09,794
♪Mm, baby, don't crowd me♪
619
00:27:09,836 --> 00:27:11,171
♪Gimme air, gimme time♪
620
00:27:11,212 --> 00:27:13,131
♪Don't crowd me♪
621
00:27:13,340 --> 00:27:15,425
♪Don't push me in♪
622
00:27:16,843 --> 00:27:18,637
♪Don't crowd me♪
623
00:27:19,012 --> 00:27:20,847
♪Yeah, don't crowd me♪
624
00:27:20,889 --> 00:27:22,307
♪Oh, baby, so hard♪
625
00:27:22,349 --> 00:27:24,267
♪Don't crowd me♪
626
00:27:24,476 --> 00:27:26,811
♪Don't push me in♪
627
00:27:26,853 --> 00:27:31,858
♪♪♪
628
00:27:50,085 --> 00:27:52,712
♪My soul is crying for air♪
629
00:27:52,921 --> 00:27:55,340
♪There's freedom
I can't share♪
630
00:27:55,382 --> 00:27:58,551
♪When I'm trying
to make some, girl♪
631
00:27:58,635 --> 00:28:01,513
♪I'm trapped
inside this world♪
632
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,182
♪Why am I always rushed?♪
633
00:28:04,349 --> 00:28:06,559
♪Why's independence crushed?♪
634
00:28:06,601 --> 00:28:08,186
♪Don't crowd me♪
635
00:28:08,228 --> 00:28:09,354
♪Say it's all right♪
636
00:28:09,396 --> 00:28:10,689
♪Don't crowd me♪
637
00:28:10,730 --> 00:28:12,023
♪Oh, it's all right♪
638
00:28:12,065 --> 00:28:13,525
♪Don't crowd me♪
639
00:28:13,566 --> 00:28:16,194
♪Oh, baby, don't
crowd me now♪
640
00:28:16,236 --> 00:28:17,529
♪It's all right,
it's all right♪
641
00:28:17,570 --> 00:28:22,950
♪Don't crowd me...♪
60469
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