Original subtitles

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Sergio loved long pictures he loved long

sequences and long

pictures to me I don't mind a long

picture if this you've got a lot of

story but if you're just telling a long

picture to produce more production value

I think you can shorten some of that

down if you have a really depthy story

story and you need to have that time

then that's fine that's where he and I

would differ I

suppose one of the reasons his pictures

are so long is that he had a narrative

that was difficult to break into and

recut and so forth his narrative had a

smoothness to it but it needed length

because that's the way he operated you

know he never skimped on film in in the

sense that I'm going to say film here

make the scene shorter that never

entered his head

Leone had a great taste for Panorama I

mean he really loved wide open spaces

and his camera really is often very

pulled back and and looking at you know

quite small figures in that

landscape but that led him toward a

taste for portraiture as well I think

it's a more Vivid contrast between wide

and close than any other major director

habitually used I mean as an effect

people would use in a movie but he

constantly uses it big tight big tight I

think it does give an operatic air to

his movies those close-ups function a

little bit like arya's do in operas I

mean suddenly you're very focused on a

leading

player Sergio one good thing he had he

was great with

faces all those faces those gypsies that

he would use to play the Mexican uh guys

he didn't just say he get me four or

five people to be in the background

every one of them had to have a

different

look you have to look at the film

carefully Lee had a tip of a finger cut

off Le only adored that he had a man

with no legs he he he would find

different people who have suffered in

life and he would focus on that found

guilty the Crim of you know when the

town's people were hanging Eli Wallock

there's a lot of tight close-ups of

those people

watching and he makes a kind of

landscape out of those faces too I mean

it becomes a different kind of

Panorama that's almost the essence of

the Leoni

style good director they should know

painting should know the famous painters

or the painters that interest them and

look at them and understand what they're

about there were shots in Leone's

pictures that I know were taken from

some

painting yes he was very very conscious

of art he'd see a certain painting and

he said that's the lighting I'd like for

this sequence and that sequence and

sometimes he'd show me a picture and say

this is the kind of thing I'd like to

duplicate here but I didn't know he

liked Opera I never heard

him breaking into any Aras of any

kind but he was a guy who was trying to

become much more of a big production

type director I think he wanted to be

David lean certainly he had in his mind

the work of the best directors of the

world and he thought that he was a great

director himself already and he

was Leon had everything in his mind I

never saw him uh you know like Austin

Wells when I worked with him had he had

diagrams of the costumes and you know he

had with the shots he was a terrific

artist Leone had nothing didn't even

have a script he never referred to a

script he knew the whole picture it was

planted in his head just as well as he

knew the

music these were all dreams he had as a

child he told me he when I was a little

child he I dreamed about westons and

heroes and and the the bad guys and I

would think of these stories and it made

my life interesting he loved the Cowboys

the West because it had a kind of

freedom to express any kind of activity

you you wanted good good bad in

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between originally Sergio wanted to have

for a few dollars more he wanted to have

Henry Fonda and L van clef's part

because he felt that I had a similarity

to Fonda that would have been sort of a

father son Mentor kind of situation he

couldn't get Henry Fonda and at that

that time he couldn't get anybody nobody

knew Sergio and the the dollar pictures

hadn't come out so he goes to California

and he comes back with Le van CLE I said

I Le van CLE that's interesting he

always had a great face and I used to

see him around at Universal years ago he

was sort of a well-known character actor

worked quite a bit and Le van CLE for

the first time in his life got

recognition he was a star in it and made

very good money due to uh

Sergio I remember that the serg remarks

was his glance makes holes in the

screen he was a nice man

quiet I understand the quiet Western

Heroes I don't care if they play

badman a lot of the best critical

opinion about the Leoni westerns was

since they were unconscionably

violent looking at them today I don't

find them

so there's a lot of buildup to violence

I mean it takes takes Le only an endless

amount of time to get a gunfight going I

mean you can see it at the end of good

bad and ugly I mean you know those guys

are circling each other in that

graveyard for I don't know feels like

about 10 minutes before there's finally

an exchange of

shots

so he liked to build but once he got to

the moment of violent he was very quick

with it you know and people are

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dead now there are certain exceptions

the beating that Eli absorbs in the

prison camp sequence and good bad and

ugly that's pretty long and Vivid and

harsh it's certainly bloody and it's

certainly see the teeth kind of

beginning to fly a little bit

but my wife couldn't watch that scene

nor could my kids but I was a medic in

the Army for 5 years in World War II we

were taught when somebody's soldiers get

drunk you can sober them up very quickly

by putting pressure on the here's the

supraorbital nerve up in here each in

your skull there's a little opening with

a nerve ending and if you press hard on

it you'll sober up quickly so I

explained that to Leon and I explained

it to Breer the big tough guy who's

torturing

me I said make believe you're pressing

don't press but make believe so that's

the way we did

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it I did get a black eye cuz I was

coming around a a pole in the thing and

he his fist came too close and CLI

me but uh as they say it's all for the

good of the

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movie making action pictures with

Italians is

dangerous they don't have the stunt

players Guild that we have here which is

very careful with issues of

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safety it's a miracle nobody actually

got hurt on any of those movies you come

right down to a murder assaulting a

Justice of the Peace raping a virgin of

the white I one said to serg

when are you going to put cotton in the

horse's ears I'm sitting on the horse my

hands behind my back this noose is

hanging right Eastwood leans back and

shoots in the in the Rope there's a

little piece of dynamite and it explodes

and the horse takes off I said to Sergio

put the cotton in the horse's ears

that's what they do in

Hollywood he said no no don't worry

about that sure enough East with shoots

the rope breaks the horse takes off with

me on his back with my hands tied behind

me and he doesn't want to stop the horse

has no idea that he's going to hear that

damn sound again it took me a mile

before that Horse

stopped I did a scene where I was lying

next to a railroad track I was

handcuffed to the man who beat me a lot

and the train is coming toward me and

Leon says Eli he always said Eli I want

them to see it's you it's not a stunt

man I said okay so action the train

comes I turn this way and as I turn the

last car goes past me and there's a step

a metal step out coming from the car

that you could step on and get on the

train and I realized that if I had

raised my head four or five Ines I'd be

decapitated so he said all right we do

it again I said no I don't want to do

that I'll get

killed when I'm searching for the gold I

have to break the bag and the coins fall

out they used an acid which they poured

over the bag so that when I did hit it

it would open

up there's a certain soda Italian soda

lemon soda that I loved and it came in a

bottle with a little white cap so I saw

it there next to the leather thing and I

grabbed it I opened it as soon as it

touched my mouth I

knew it was not my favorite lemon drink

it was some kind of

poison the first thing I did was spit I

was furious and I said to Leone I'm not

going to shoot anymore today now Leone

wasn't trying to kill me because I

hadn't finished the film yet oh

Eli they ordered milk and I drank a

quart of milk to to

neutralize what the acid was and then I

did the

scene all directors doing historical

films make big claims about authenticity

and and Leone did he said oh I read all

these books about for example the prison

camp I mean he read read up a lot on

Andersonville he read up on such history

as there was of the Civil Wars that was

fought in Texas there was apparently one

minor engagement no nowhere near

spacious is the one that he's giving us

look see that one with a white beard

sitting in the wagon General simplyy he

looks dead but I also never really

believe directors when they talk about

it authenticity of a historical kind I

mean it's not their major business all a

historical film has to be is kind of

plausible in terms of its details the

plausibility is significant is emotional

plausibility in the old western that I

grew grew up with Hoot Gibson and Jack

Holt Jee hry and those people they never

dressed the way you saw them dress in

this movie never when I was at his house

I said where did you dream up the idea

of those long coats you know down to the

ankles he said I'll show you and he had

a American book of the West and there

was a picture of cowboys wearing dusters

well of course they were always in the

dust the rain and they covered their

whole bodies he also had a shot in the

good the bad the ugly with a train

pulling out it was an authentic Train by

of that period in Spain they had them

and at the end of the Train the last

train had a cannon projecting out of it

I said where the hell did you dream that

up he I'll show you and there it was in

a book about the Civil

War onethird of that movie deals with

the Civil War in The Good the Bad and

the Ugly he took a book by Matthew Brady

which dealt with photos that Matthew

Brady took during the Civil War

and if you see there's a scene where a

train is pulling into a station and a

man is on the on the cow catcher in the

front with his arms spread he says I'm a

Confederate spy and you know they're

going to kill him there's a scene where

a group of soldiers marching with a man

they lay a coffin down they line up and

they shoot him and he falls in the

coffin all of those came authentically

from from what Leon's research showed

him they took a little bit of license

but he tried the best he could he's very

very Innovative they' made replicas in

Spain and what have you and so they got

a lot of equipment Gatling guns and

things like

that and all the Cannons and guns and

all were came from the military museum

in Spain and they were authentic Union

Army and rebel Army

equipment I think the budget on this

picture was about four times what he'd

had on

fistful he had some room for

spaciousness in this movie that he

hadn't previously

had in was partially shut in Al Maria

not

totally U was part in alia and part in

the north of Spain where it was the

bridge for instance or the

battles but the Spanish Army was helpful

all over the the the the film for the

battle scenes the Spanish government was

helpful in any in any way they

could clayon said listen this is my

third Italian movie I I'll give you tips

don't don't get involved in anything

dangerous so he he guided me in a way he

was my mentor he he took care of me in

this in this movie and I like that well

yeah well there was a few things I I I

was maybe a little more cynical about

some of the uh the looseness let's say

about the the shooting we were shooting

this 200 meter bridge and it was an

actual bridge in the states nowadays you

at least have bals of wood or certain

fake rocks this was an actual bridge and

they just loaded the thing with dynamite

the Spanish Army

did Clint said to the only where do you

want us Leon said well I have a camera

here one here and one right near the

bridge that's where you are

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and they said well yeah we have so many

hundreds of pounds of dynamite in this

bridge and I'm Going H so I turned

around and Eli is kind of going who do

you think you think we should do this

and I I said Sergio where are you going

to

be oh I'm up on the hill with that

camera and Clint says that's where we're

going to be up on that hill with that

camera he was going to be back back up

the hill overseas seeing the whole thing

and I

said maybe that's where we should be

too so Eli and I went up on top of the

hill where they do this so I've got this

golf club I've got a a pitching wedge

and I'm sitting just for practice I'm

just sitting there swinging it just kind

of something to do and all of a sudden

out of nowhere this whole Bridge just

goes bam like that and I said oh my God

they must we all turned and Eli says I

think they must have been

filming

and I said yeah I said they probably

didn't have the camera running anytime

you're ready to CB I one of those jokes

I started getting kind of cynical and we

started laughing and all of a sudden

there's silence there's silence and all

of a sudden I hear just screaming and

yelling and screaming and yelling and

here so we start walking down and here

comes Sergio up the road and he's got uh

and he is red he is not

just he is red red his face he he's AB

absolutely going crazy with every swear

word there is in Italian in any other

language he might have known we found

out afterwards what had happened is

because the Spanish Army had built the

bridge they decided they were going to

let the Spanish Captain have the honor

of blowing up the bridge so when the

cameras were adjusting one of the

cameramen behind them was saying they

were saying you know ready good good

good and they so they were saying by Vi

you know VI meaning okay you ready and

he go by by so the Spanish Captain who

nothing about movies he just sat there

and he just say oh a

VI boom and the whole thing went

up not a camera rolling down where we

would have been was really kind of a

tricky area to be

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in but it was the first time I'd ever

heard the anytime you're ready CB joke

played out

loud we went down to Amaria to another

location for 3 weeks and when we came

back they had rebuilt the bridge the

Spanish people the captain the Army felt

so bad they rebuilt it for nothing and

we blew it up again this time with the

special effects man Italian special

effects man on the

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trigger you know people say you know

movies and you get all that money and

all but the danger when I told you about

the bridge blowing up or the acid in

that thing or the train almost knocking

my head off then you realize it's not

all safe and

sound I think this movie is very

moral when we come to the end of the

movie The vastness of that Cemetery I

mean the amount of lives that are just

wasted in this Cemetery that stretches

to the farthest Horizon of his

introductory shots of

it I think there's a moral there I mean

you know it's it's a standard moral it's

about greed and what we will do for a

few dollars

more what did they tell you about the

money we really don't want the Le van

CLE character who has been presented as

a really evil guy a thoroughly evil guy

without any redeeming virt we don't want

to get away with the

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money we actually kind of want Eli most

of all to have it because he's worked so

hard and he's been so crazy in pursuit

of

it and I suppose we want Clint to have

it because you wouldn't quite call him a

moral figure but he's always the

objective figure he's a little bit

stepped back from the Scurry of the ACT

action and then at the ultimate moment

he will step forward and resolve the

action in a way that's morally

satisfying to us that whole character is

I think a very significant

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statement the films were popular when

they came out in the United States what

has happened with them over the course

of 40 years is that people people have

begun to take them seriously as a form

of artistic

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expression these Leon pictures come out

of a really United tradition but they

come out of that and they're good all of

Leon pictures are

good for all our grandiosity and

operatic qualities these are movies that

speak to my understanding of human

nature I'm I'm curious about why this

has become such a cult movie but they

show it every two months all over the

United States it's kept my career going

people said me I didn't know he was

still alive you know I didn't know he

was still here and I think yeah I'm

still

here I'm not one that kind of revisits

films that's kind of what I'd like to do

with that picture I'd like to sit down

sometime run the DVD and just sit

quietly and and and kind of have a

little nostalgic

moment the laughs the

insanity the good

food the adventure in Spain it was all a

wonderful

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experience go he go

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go