All language subtitles for Kemper.on.Kemper.Inside.the.Mind.of.a.Serial.Killer.2018.1080p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DDP2.0.H.264-NTG.EN

af Afrikaans
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bn Bengali
bs Bosnian
bg Bulgarian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch
en English Download
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French
fy Frisian
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German
el Greek
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ga Irish
it Italian Download
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
km Khmer
ko Korean
ku Kurdish (Kurmanji)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Lao
la Latin
lv Latvian
lt Lithuanian
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
ne Nepali
no Norwegian
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt Portuguese Download
pa Punjabi
ro Romanian
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
st Sesotho
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhala
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish Download
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
te Telugu
th Thai
tr Turkish
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
or Odia (Oriya)
rw Kinyarwanda
tk Turkmen
tt Tatar
ug Uyghur
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:07,311 --> 00:00:08,530 - Just a week ago today, 2 00:00:08,573 --> 00:00:11,185 four more bodies were discovered. 3 00:00:11,228 --> 00:00:13,100 in a connected series of murders 4 00:00:13,143 --> 00:00:15,189 that now numbers at least ten. 5 00:00:30,421 --> 00:00:34,686 - He went for someone who he knew was weak and vulnerable. 6 00:00:34,730 --> 00:00:36,732 Co-eds, college students. 7 00:00:37,385 --> 00:00:39,691 - He eviscerates them, decapitates them, 8 00:00:39,735 --> 00:00:42,346 has sex with the body parts. 9 00:00:42,390 --> 00:00:46,263 - Roz Thorpe was a free spirit. She was bright. 10 00:00:47,090 --> 00:00:49,745 - Aiko Koo was a little girl, really. 11 00:00:49,788 --> 00:00:53,140 Who knows what these victims would've turned into, 12 00:00:53,183 --> 00:00:55,533 and I think that's the tragedy of it all. 13 00:00:58,754 --> 00:01:00,190 - By 10, 12 years of age, 14 00:01:00,234 --> 00:01:02,105 he was getting abuse from his mother. 15 00:01:02,149 --> 00:01:04,325 "You're nothing. You'll never amount to anything." 16 00:01:04,368 --> 00:01:06,631 - We're still fighting. She's still belittling me. 17 00:01:06,675 --> 00:01:09,243 I'm like a puppet on a string. 18 00:01:10,418 --> 00:01:11,767 - If mom wasn't there, 19 00:01:11,810 --> 00:01:14,596 he wouldn't have been a serial killer. 20 00:01:17,642 --> 00:01:19,296 - He killed his mother. 21 00:01:20,254 --> 00:01:23,692 He wanted to just humiliate and defile the corpse 22 00:01:23,735 --> 00:01:26,216 any way he could, and he did. 23 00:01:31,439 --> 00:01:33,615 - Here was a guy killing coeds. 24 00:01:33,658 --> 00:01:37,097 He's a necrophiliac, what he did to his mother. 25 00:01:37,140 --> 00:01:40,622 How is he different from us? What's going through his mind? 26 00:01:40,665 --> 00:01:44,800 To understand the artist, you must look at the artwork. 27 00:01:44,843 --> 00:01:46,802 Kemper is gonna be the first one 28 00:01:46,845 --> 00:01:49,805 to help the FBI know what makes these guys tick. 29 00:02:09,172 --> 00:02:12,219 - Kemper was very helpful because he's very intelligent. 30 00:02:12,262 --> 00:02:14,525 He's more than just average intelligence. 31 00:02:14,569 --> 00:02:15,874 - He's got total recall 32 00:02:15,918 --> 00:02:17,441 for everything that he has ever done. 33 00:02:17,485 --> 00:02:21,184 - He changed law enforcement forever. 34 00:02:27,843 --> 00:02:30,628 - I'm not an expert. I'm not an authority. 35 00:02:30,672 --> 00:02:33,327 I'm someone who has been a murderer for almost 20 years. 36 00:02:33,370 --> 00:02:35,807 I was playing a dangerous game with a loaded gun 37 00:02:35,851 --> 00:02:37,374 that got us all. 38 00:02:56,524 --> 00:02:59,483 - In the '60s, Santa Cruz was a beach town 39 00:02:59,527 --> 00:03:03,226 by basically a Yosemite-quality redwood forest. 40 00:03:03,270 --> 00:03:04,445 - It was beautiful. 41 00:03:05,576 --> 00:03:07,535 It was just really make-believe. 42 00:03:07,970 --> 00:03:11,582 - UC Santa Cruz had opened in 1965 43 00:03:11,626 --> 00:03:13,628 and was just gathering popularity, 44 00:03:13,671 --> 00:03:16,674 and it was becoming a real counterculture location 45 00:03:16,718 --> 00:03:19,721 where hippies loved to go. 46 00:03:19,764 --> 00:03:21,505 It was a real party time. 47 00:03:21,549 --> 00:03:23,986 Come to Santa Cruz and be free and easy. 48 00:03:24,029 --> 00:03:26,815 Until the bodies started washing in on the beach. 49 00:03:27,468 --> 00:03:30,340 - There are a number of unsolved murders in this area. 50 00:03:30,384 --> 00:03:33,691 Four of these victims were co-eds from nearby UC. 51 00:03:33,735 --> 00:03:36,825 At least two other young women are missing and feared dead. 52 00:03:38,348 --> 00:03:39,958 - People were buying guns, 53 00:03:40,002 --> 00:03:41,917 making sure their doors were locked, 54 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,964 and it was an atmosphere of fear. 55 00:03:46,008 --> 00:03:48,663 - Until he called the police on himself, 56 00:03:48,706 --> 00:03:50,534 I don't think anybody felt safe. 57 00:04:26,004 --> 00:04:28,746 - So at that point, I'm feeling all of the blood 58 00:04:28,790 --> 00:04:30,574 run from my head down to my feet. 59 00:04:30,618 --> 00:04:32,924 - It was a shock to everybody. 60 00:04:32,968 --> 00:04:34,752 Everybody was just buzzing around. 61 00:04:34,796 --> 00:04:36,928 It was, like, all of a sudden, things were happening. 62 00:04:42,369 --> 00:04:45,937 - The police came up. He filled up the entire booth. 63 00:04:45,981 --> 00:04:48,679 He was arrested in the telephone booth. 64 00:04:50,638 --> 00:04:55,860 - He stands 6'9", 285 pounds. Just a huge man. 65 00:04:55,904 --> 00:04:58,646 So the officers said when they arrived 66 00:04:58,689 --> 00:05:00,822 he came out of the phone booth, 67 00:05:00,865 --> 00:05:03,781 he literally put his hands on top of the phone booth 68 00:05:03,825 --> 00:05:05,348 to say "I give up." 69 00:05:05,392 --> 00:05:07,350 He's that big. 70 00:05:07,394 --> 00:05:09,613 - Why did you wind up giving yourself up? 71 00:05:11,746 --> 00:05:13,008 - It had to stop. 72 00:05:14,749 --> 00:05:17,708 - This was such a crazy time and such a hideous evil 73 00:05:17,752 --> 00:05:20,320 that Kemper perpetrated on these people. 74 00:05:20,363 --> 00:05:23,410 - He tells me exactly, in graphic details, 75 00:05:23,453 --> 00:05:25,760 what he did to these victims. 76 00:05:25,803 --> 00:05:27,805 Just think if had he not turned himself in 77 00:05:27,849 --> 00:05:29,677 and he just kept killing, he could've gone killing 78 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,766 for a long, long period of time. 79 00:05:59,446 --> 00:06:01,622 - In those days, all of the research 80 00:06:01,665 --> 00:06:04,799 that has been conducted on criminal psychology 81 00:06:04,842 --> 00:06:07,932 has been from a rehabilitation perspective. 82 00:06:07,976 --> 00:06:10,674 We've had to develop more of a proactive technique 83 00:06:10,718 --> 00:06:12,546 to try to catch these guys. 84 00:06:13,677 --> 00:06:15,113 I told my partner, "We got to go 85 00:06:15,157 --> 00:06:16,898 and talk to the experts." 86 00:06:17,899 --> 00:06:19,944 We did not ask for FBI permission 87 00:06:19,988 --> 00:06:22,382 because the old saying, it's better to ask 88 00:06:22,425 --> 00:06:24,035 for forgiveness than permission. 89 00:06:25,472 --> 00:06:27,125 And the first person we'd be interviewing 90 00:06:27,169 --> 00:06:28,866 would be Edmund Emil Kemper. 91 00:06:28,910 --> 00:06:32,174 - He was not insane. He was perfectly conscious 92 00:06:32,217 --> 00:06:35,569 of exactly what he was doing and how he was doing it, 93 00:06:35,612 --> 00:06:37,527 and he told the police everything. 94 00:06:37,571 --> 00:06:39,964 You can learn exactly what you wanted to learn. 95 00:06:40,008 --> 00:06:42,010 - He was perfect for the FBI. 96 00:06:58,809 --> 00:07:00,202 - The best way to understand 97 00:07:00,245 --> 00:07:02,596 is to look at Kemper's childhood. 98 00:07:09,124 --> 00:07:14,172 - Ed Kemper never had a normal childhood. 99 00:07:14,216 --> 00:07:15,783 - It was a chaotic relationship 100 00:07:15,826 --> 00:07:17,480 between his mother and his father. 101 00:07:18,873 --> 00:07:20,483 This went on for a period of time, 102 00:07:20,527 --> 00:07:21,876 this bickering and yelling, 103 00:07:21,919 --> 00:07:23,704 demeaning his father. 104 00:07:25,619 --> 00:07:28,665 The father couldn't take it any longer, so he took off. 105 00:07:29,666 --> 00:07:32,190 And junior here was now left with the mother. 106 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,158 - His mother was very verbally abusive, 107 00:07:43,201 --> 00:07:46,640 didn't like him, maybe hated him. 108 00:07:47,858 --> 00:07:49,599 - His mother was very belittling 109 00:07:49,643 --> 00:07:51,122 of him and humiliated him, 110 00:07:51,166 --> 00:07:53,081 but somebody doesn't wake up one day 111 00:07:53,124 --> 00:07:54,996 and decide, "I'll go out and kill women," 112 00:07:55,039 --> 00:07:56,954 because someone is trying 113 00:07:56,998 --> 00:07:58,608 to symbolically kill their mother. 114 00:07:58,652 --> 00:08:02,046 It begins 10, 15, 20 years earlier 115 00:08:02,090 --> 00:08:04,919 in his mind, in his fantasies. 116 00:08:07,922 --> 00:08:11,752 - He had an older sister, and he had a younger sister, 117 00:08:11,795 --> 00:08:15,495 and he played games called gas chamber, electric chair, 118 00:08:15,538 --> 00:08:18,062 and what that was, was just like reenactment of death. 119 00:08:19,020 --> 00:08:20,804 They would strap him to a chair, 120 00:08:20,848 --> 00:08:22,110 and then his sister would make-believe 121 00:08:22,153 --> 00:08:23,546 she's pushing on a button 122 00:08:23,590 --> 00:08:25,592 to execute him, and he'd writhe 123 00:08:25,635 --> 00:08:28,290 in the chair like he's being executed. 124 00:08:28,333 --> 00:08:31,119 - And that was a game, and you wonder if there was 125 00:08:31,162 --> 00:08:34,252 something in that experience that began 126 00:08:34,296 --> 00:08:37,734 some of these very death-oriented fantasies. 127 00:08:42,130 --> 00:08:43,871 - His mother was afraid of him. 128 00:08:43,914 --> 00:08:45,525 - She put him in the basement. 129 00:08:52,357 --> 00:08:54,185 - The rest of the family went upstairs 130 00:08:54,229 --> 00:08:57,014 to retire for the evening. I went to the basement. 131 00:08:57,058 --> 00:09:00,061 So we had an entire floor of the house between us, 132 00:09:00,104 --> 00:09:02,672 and it was very scary. 133 00:09:02,716 --> 00:09:05,675 My mother wouldn't allow me any negotiated settlement of light. 134 00:09:05,719 --> 00:09:08,156 I couldn't have a night light. It was too expensive. 135 00:09:08,199 --> 00:09:11,681 - And he talked about the rats running around at night 136 00:09:11,725 --> 00:09:14,031 and how afraid he was of the rats. 137 00:09:16,904 --> 00:09:18,253 - He'd be all alone in the dark 138 00:09:18,296 --> 00:09:20,124 with only this furnace light going. 139 00:09:20,168 --> 00:09:21,909 - And he would look in this gas furnace, and he would 140 00:09:21,952 --> 00:09:23,606 just kind of fantasize that this was hell, 141 00:09:23,650 --> 00:09:24,738 this was Satan. 142 00:09:26,261 --> 00:09:29,220 And the flames are coming out. 143 00:09:29,264 --> 00:09:31,266 - And to me, that was the fires of hell. 144 00:09:31,309 --> 00:09:34,661 All I saw was the flame shadows 145 00:09:34,704 --> 00:09:36,750 or light playing on the grill 146 00:09:36,793 --> 00:09:42,190 of the furnace shining on a wall and a hissing sound. 147 00:09:44,148 --> 00:09:47,674 That I was making a bargain with demonic forces 148 00:09:47,717 --> 00:09:49,153 that I was convinced 149 00:09:49,197 --> 00:09:53,070 were gonna consume me and somehow do me in. 150 00:09:58,206 --> 00:10:01,122 - And he had these dolls belonging to his older sister. 151 00:10:02,993 --> 00:10:05,039 She loved these dolls. 152 00:10:05,082 --> 00:10:07,302 So that's where he first started cutting the heads, 153 00:10:07,345 --> 00:10:09,696 the arms, and legs off the dolls. 154 00:10:11,741 --> 00:10:13,221 It didn't stop with the dolls. 155 00:10:19,706 --> 00:10:23,187 He then transitioned over into animal cruelty. 156 00:10:25,755 --> 00:10:27,365 Which we know that's a predictor 157 00:10:27,409 --> 00:10:28,845 of future violence. 158 00:10:29,759 --> 00:10:32,936 So he buries the cat alive 159 00:10:32,980 --> 00:10:35,765 and then brings the cat up after it's dead, 160 00:10:35,809 --> 00:10:37,288 decapitates the head of the cat. 161 00:10:37,332 --> 00:10:38,986 He puts it on a stake. 162 00:10:41,336 --> 00:10:43,773 If you see these characteristics in children, 163 00:10:43,817 --> 00:10:46,646 there's a good chance he or she will become a violent offender. 164 00:10:52,347 --> 00:10:56,003 They shipped him up to the paternal grandparents, 165 00:10:56,873 --> 00:10:58,396 in a remote area. 166 00:11:00,224 --> 00:11:01,661 - He loved his grandfather. 167 00:11:01,704 --> 00:11:03,314 It's the only person I ever heard him 168 00:11:03,358 --> 00:11:05,229 say that he loved. 169 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,712 His grandfather got him a rifle 170 00:11:09,756 --> 00:11:11,409 and taught him to shoot. 171 00:11:13,411 --> 00:11:15,326 - He was shooting birds. 172 00:11:16,806 --> 00:11:18,895 And grandma, her name was Maude, 173 00:11:18,939 --> 00:11:20,157 didn't like that. 174 00:11:21,898 --> 00:11:23,073 - She took the gun 175 00:11:23,117 --> 00:11:24,858 - We begin now to see 176 00:11:24,901 --> 00:11:28,862 the dynamics of when he gets upset. 177 00:11:28,905 --> 00:11:33,867 Her telling him to do something triggered a lot of rage. 178 00:11:33,910 --> 00:11:38,045 - And unfortunately Maude was the same personality 179 00:11:38,088 --> 00:11:39,394 as his mother. 180 00:11:42,049 --> 00:11:44,747 - Very, very controlling, domineering, 181 00:11:44,791 --> 00:11:47,054 nagging type of mother. 182 00:11:47,097 --> 00:11:49,404 - He described her as verbally abusive. 183 00:11:49,447 --> 00:11:52,233 He used the same terms for his mother. 184 00:11:53,887 --> 00:11:55,845 - They get into an argument, 185 00:11:55,889 --> 00:11:57,891 and he was just so fed up... 186 00:11:59,196 --> 00:12:01,764 with her, and he decided to pick up that gun 187 00:12:01,808 --> 00:12:04,071 and while she's at her kitchen table... 188 00:12:05,333 --> 00:12:07,335 He came up and shot her 189 00:12:07,378 --> 00:12:09,032 once in the back of the head 190 00:12:10,512 --> 00:12:12,819 and a couple of times in the back. 191 00:12:18,433 --> 00:12:19,956 Surprisingly it's not done. 192 00:12:27,790 --> 00:12:29,792 He was getting abuse from his mother, 193 00:12:29,836 --> 00:12:31,533 and he can only take so much of this, 194 00:12:31,576 --> 00:12:34,014 and it's going to, you know, overflow. 195 00:12:34,057 --> 00:12:37,321 - I said, "She's got to die, or more girls are gonna die." 196 00:12:38,366 --> 00:12:41,021 And that's when I decided I'm going to murder my mother. 197 00:13:00,083 --> 00:13:03,086 - So then he became horrified. 198 00:13:03,130 --> 00:13:05,567 He was so concerned about how this was going 199 00:13:05,610 --> 00:13:07,612 to affect his grandfather, 200 00:13:07,656 --> 00:13:09,658 so he decided the only reasonable thing 201 00:13:09,701 --> 00:13:11,094 to do was to kill his grandfather 202 00:13:11,138 --> 00:13:13,053 to keep him from suffering. 203 00:13:22,976 --> 00:13:24,804 - Why did you shoot grandpa? 204 00:13:24,847 --> 00:13:26,457 You liked him. 205 00:13:26,501 --> 00:13:27,981 And he said, "I didn't want Grandpa 206 00:13:28,024 --> 00:13:30,940 "to see that his wife is dead. 207 00:13:30,984 --> 00:13:32,942 He would've had a heart attack." 208 00:13:32,986 --> 00:13:34,988 It doesn't make sense. 209 00:13:35,858 --> 00:13:39,079 And they call the cops. They come. They arrest him. 210 00:13:48,871 --> 00:13:51,004 - At the time I was 6' 7 1/2". 211 00:13:51,047 --> 00:13:54,007 I weighed 173 pounds. 212 00:13:54,050 --> 00:13:56,183 They couldn't believe I was under 16. 213 00:13:56,226 --> 00:13:59,055 The judge had appointed a psychiatrist. 214 00:13:59,099 --> 00:14:02,537 His report was that I was mentally ill, 215 00:14:02,580 --> 00:14:05,932 that I was what he called... 216 00:14:05,975 --> 00:14:09,065 how did he put that? I was salvageable, 217 00:14:09,109 --> 00:14:11,589 that I should be treated and not punished. 218 00:14:17,769 --> 00:14:19,902 - Atascadero, that's a place basically 219 00:14:19,946 --> 00:14:22,731 for the criminally insane, and you're dealing with a lot 220 00:14:22,774 --> 00:14:25,255 of severely psychotic, mentally ill people that 221 00:14:25,299 --> 00:14:27,867 did something in the throes of a psychosis. 222 00:14:29,956 --> 00:14:31,871 Kemper didn't fit that mold. 223 00:14:32,959 --> 00:14:37,006 - They felt he must be crazy because look what he did, 224 00:14:37,050 --> 00:14:40,009 but unfortunately his condition 225 00:14:40,053 --> 00:14:44,840 didn't fit within any of the diagnostic mental illnesses. 226 00:14:44,884 --> 00:14:46,755 He wasn't a paranoid schizophrenic. 227 00:14:46,798 --> 00:14:48,844 He didn't hear voices. 228 00:14:48,888 --> 00:14:50,715 - This type of pathology 229 00:14:50,759 --> 00:14:52,979 was not at all on anybody's radar screen, 230 00:14:53,022 --> 00:14:54,894 even mental health professionals, 231 00:14:54,937 --> 00:14:57,984 and I'm not sure that they knew what to do with him. 232 00:14:58,941 --> 00:15:00,900 And so he was locked away. 233 00:15:01,726 --> 00:15:06,209 - So from age 15 to 21, he was in a cage, 234 00:15:06,253 --> 00:15:08,864 and that's just how he developed. 235 00:15:11,606 --> 00:15:14,609 Here's a kid that had never had a girlfriend. 236 00:15:16,219 --> 00:15:18,613 And he described that he would masturbate 237 00:15:18,656 --> 00:15:20,049 several times a day. 238 00:15:22,617 --> 00:15:24,967 A lot of what he was thinking about 239 00:15:25,011 --> 00:15:28,579 during this--these activities was what he would do 240 00:15:28,623 --> 00:15:31,756 to his mother and perhaps to other women. 241 00:15:33,715 --> 00:15:36,848 - He hated his mother, and it's sexually arousing 242 00:15:36,892 --> 00:15:38,328 and stimulating. 243 00:15:38,372 --> 00:15:41,941 What that tells me is, as an early adolescent, 244 00:15:41,984 --> 00:15:44,030 when people are just reaching puberty, 245 00:15:44,073 --> 00:15:46,946 and their sexuality begins to take place, 246 00:15:46,989 --> 00:15:50,079 you already see the early signs of a fusion 247 00:15:50,123 --> 00:15:52,125 of sex and aggression. 248 00:15:53,256 --> 00:15:54,954 - They do some psych tests on him. 249 00:15:56,651 --> 00:15:58,348 - He's very intelligent. 250 00:16:00,046 --> 00:16:02,657 He's more than just average intelligence. 251 00:16:04,702 --> 00:16:06,966 - His IQ was 145. 252 00:16:14,321 --> 00:16:17,106 - I wasn't aware of any intelligence. 253 00:16:17,150 --> 00:16:19,804 I was being called stupid pretty frequently, 254 00:16:19,848 --> 00:16:21,937 and unfortunately it was sinking in. 255 00:16:21,981 --> 00:16:25,810 I was very positively impressed and surprised 256 00:16:25,854 --> 00:16:27,682 to find out I wasn't mentally defective. 257 00:16:27,725 --> 00:16:30,424 Literally. I thought I was a slow person. 258 00:16:30,467 --> 00:16:32,774 - He's very, very disarming 259 00:16:32,817 --> 00:16:34,689 because of his high intelligence 260 00:16:34,732 --> 00:16:36,734 and his pleasant demeanor. 261 00:16:36,778 --> 00:16:39,041 He's a very friendly and engaging 262 00:16:39,085 --> 00:16:41,261 and really a very likeable person. 263 00:16:41,304 --> 00:16:42,827 - They trusted him. 264 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,224 - They thought he was just the perfect 265 00:16:48,268 --> 00:16:50,313 recovered criminal, 266 00:16:50,357 --> 00:16:54,317 and he assisted them as, like, a secretary in their offices 267 00:16:54,361 --> 00:16:57,059 and administered tests to the inmates. 268 00:16:57,103 --> 00:16:59,322 - He learned the buzzwords. He learned what to say 269 00:16:59,366 --> 00:17:01,455 to make himself sound normal. 270 00:17:01,498 --> 00:17:03,413 He memorized the questions. 271 00:17:04,197 --> 00:17:07,113 - So he knew what the answers were supposed to be. 272 00:17:08,070 --> 00:17:11,378 And that's why he passed his final examination. 273 00:17:13,075 --> 00:17:16,687 - When Kemper was allowed out of Atascadero, 274 00:17:16,731 --> 00:17:18,254 he was declared sane. 275 00:17:18,298 --> 00:17:20,126 - Psychiatrists really didn't believe 276 00:17:20,169 --> 00:17:22,171 he was a danger to himself or others. 277 00:17:22,215 --> 00:17:23,781 He had been a model patient. 278 00:17:25,087 --> 00:17:27,481 So they recommended that he be released. 279 00:17:27,524 --> 00:17:30,136 But when they paroled him, 280 00:17:30,179 --> 00:17:32,268 they made him live with his mother. 281 00:17:39,145 --> 00:17:41,147 - Now he's with mom. 282 00:17:41,190 --> 00:17:44,193 He's back in this environment, the nagging, the yelling. 283 00:17:44,237 --> 00:17:45,281 She broke him. 284 00:17:46,935 --> 00:17:49,807 - Within nine months, he killed his first hitchhiker. 285 00:17:57,815 --> 00:17:59,948 - Mary Ann Pesce and Anita Luchessa 286 00:17:59,991 --> 00:18:01,906 were the first ones that were murdered. 287 00:18:01,950 --> 00:18:04,039 - He said he cut her ear to ear. 288 00:18:04,083 --> 00:18:05,388 - When I attacked her, she didn't 289 00:18:05,432 --> 00:18:07,173 at first realize what was happening. 290 00:18:07,216 --> 00:18:09,044 I had just gone through a horrible experience 291 00:18:09,088 --> 00:18:11,133 stabbing her, and I'm walking back there 292 00:18:11,177 --> 00:18:13,222 with her roommate, bewildered. I got to kill her. 293 00:18:13,266 --> 00:18:15,137 I can't let her go. She's gonna tell on me. 294 00:18:15,181 --> 00:18:17,400 Everybody's gonna get me. 295 00:18:39,857 --> 00:18:41,468 - After juvenile hall, 296 00:18:41,511 --> 00:18:43,948 he was a bit of a loner. He didn't really fit in. 297 00:18:43,992 --> 00:18:47,300 He wanted to hang with the cops and fit in with them. 298 00:18:47,343 --> 00:18:51,478 - He actually had ambitions of becoming a policeman. 299 00:18:51,521 --> 00:18:53,654 I mean, that's sort of crazy. 300 00:18:56,700 --> 00:18:59,834 - Many murderers wanted to be law enforcement officers, 301 00:18:59,877 --> 00:19:02,967 and a few of them actually were law enforcement officers. 302 00:19:11,106 --> 00:19:13,152 These guys are interested in law enforcement 303 00:19:13,195 --> 00:19:15,850 because they want to learn investigative techniques 304 00:19:15,893 --> 00:19:18,331 in order to avoid apprehension. 305 00:19:18,374 --> 00:19:20,724 And how do you learn investigative techniques 306 00:19:20,768 --> 00:19:23,162 any better than hanging around cops? 307 00:19:24,598 --> 00:19:26,469 - Kemper wanted to be a police officer, 308 00:19:26,513 --> 00:19:29,037 but he never could get on because he was 6'9", 309 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:30,908 300 pounds. 310 00:19:30,952 --> 00:19:32,562 He exceeded the height limit. 311 00:19:32,606 --> 00:19:35,086 - So he got a job with the highway department. 312 00:19:37,654 --> 00:19:39,090 - What did people see? 313 00:19:40,222 --> 00:19:42,050 - A nice guy. 314 00:19:42,093 --> 00:19:44,966 I lived as an ordinary person most of my life, 315 00:19:45,009 --> 00:19:46,750 even though I was living a parallel 316 00:19:46,794 --> 00:19:50,885 and increasingly sick life, other life. 317 00:19:50,928 --> 00:19:54,193 - He really couldn't function well at all in society. 318 00:19:54,236 --> 00:19:57,065 - His love life was very lacking. 319 00:19:57,108 --> 00:19:59,720 - He would see normal people, a man and a woman going out 320 00:19:59,763 --> 00:20:01,722 on a date or being together. 321 00:20:01,765 --> 00:20:05,073 The level of jealousy in him was just out of this world. 322 00:20:05,116 --> 00:20:08,685 - He claimed that his mother was the one that 323 00:20:08,729 --> 00:20:12,559 kept him from being with women his own age. 324 00:20:13,124 --> 00:20:14,996 - He wanted his mother to fix him up with some girls 325 00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:17,085 on campus, and the mother said, "No. 326 00:20:17,128 --> 00:20:19,479 "You'll never get to date any of these girls. 327 00:20:19,522 --> 00:20:21,176 You're just worthless." 328 00:20:32,056 --> 00:20:38,498 - My frustration, my inability to communicate socially, 329 00:20:38,541 --> 00:20:41,979 sexually--I wasn't impotent, 330 00:20:42,023 --> 00:20:44,025 but emotionally I was impotent. 331 00:20:44,068 --> 00:20:46,984 I was scared to death of failing 332 00:20:47,028 --> 00:20:48,856 in male-female relationships. 333 00:20:48,899 --> 00:20:51,815 I knew absolutely nothing about that whole area, 334 00:20:51,859 --> 00:20:54,731 even of just sitting down and talking with a young lady. 335 00:20:55,863 --> 00:20:57,430 I need to be able to really communicate, 336 00:20:57,473 --> 00:20:58,779 and ironically enough, 337 00:20:58,822 --> 00:21:00,911 that's why I began picking people up. 338 00:21:04,524 --> 00:21:09,659 - Hitchhiking culture in Santa Cruz was very active. 339 00:21:10,269 --> 00:21:12,271 - People hitchhiked all over town. 340 00:21:14,185 --> 00:21:16,797 But especially they hitchhiked at the university. 341 00:21:17,928 --> 00:21:19,626 - He could've gone to prostitutes, 342 00:21:19,669 --> 00:21:21,715 but prostitutes are street people. 343 00:21:21,758 --> 00:21:24,979 They're strong. They're tough. They take care of themselves. 344 00:21:25,022 --> 00:21:27,895 Kemper was too smart for that, so he went for someone 345 00:21:27,938 --> 00:21:30,854 who he knew was weak and vulnerable. 346 00:21:34,510 --> 00:21:35,946 Co-eds, college students. 347 00:21:38,688 --> 00:21:41,604 He gained comfort by becoming familiar 348 00:21:41,648 --> 00:21:44,520 with the process of picking up hitchhikers. 349 00:21:44,564 --> 00:21:46,479 - He wanted to see how far he could get, 350 00:21:46,522 --> 00:21:47,871 and he would advance it. 351 00:21:50,091 --> 00:21:52,528 He would pick up a co-ed, 352 00:21:52,572 --> 00:21:55,575 and he wanted to see whether he could let her go. 353 00:21:57,577 --> 00:22:00,841 So he's testing himself, practicing. 354 00:22:03,104 --> 00:22:04,845 - I'm picking up young women, 355 00:22:04,888 --> 00:22:06,890 and I'm going a little bit farther each time. 356 00:22:06,934 --> 00:22:09,284 It's a daring kind of a thing. 357 00:22:10,938 --> 00:22:12,331 I'm driving along. 358 00:22:12,374 --> 00:22:14,855 We go to a vulnerable place 359 00:22:14,898 --> 00:22:16,726 where there aren't people watching, 360 00:22:16,770 --> 00:22:19,729 where I could act out, and I say, "No, I can't." 361 00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:32,002 And this craving, this awful, raging, eating feeling inside, 362 00:22:32,046 --> 00:22:36,050 I could feel it consuming my insides, 363 00:22:36,093 --> 00:22:38,095 this fantastic passion. 364 00:22:40,228 --> 00:22:42,883 It was like drugs. It was like alcohol. 365 00:22:42,926 --> 00:22:45,581 A little isn't enough. At first it is. 366 00:22:45,625 --> 00:22:47,540 And as you adjust to that psychologically 367 00:22:47,583 --> 00:22:49,803 and physically, you take more and more and more. 368 00:22:49,846 --> 00:22:51,239 It's the same process. 369 00:22:51,282 --> 00:22:53,546 So it finally came down to the thing of, 370 00:22:53,589 --> 00:22:55,852 "Do I dare bring this gun out?" 371 00:22:55,896 --> 00:22:57,985 Already realizing if that gun comes out, 372 00:22:58,028 --> 00:23:01,249 something has to happen. It was going to happen. 373 00:23:01,292 --> 00:23:03,164 I didn't see it then, but it was going to happen. 374 00:23:03,207 --> 00:23:05,906 I was playing a dangerous game with a loaded gun 375 00:23:05,949 --> 00:23:07,255 that got us all. 376 00:23:18,875 --> 00:23:21,051 - It would be displaced anger. 377 00:23:21,095 --> 00:23:22,923 These are girls his mother said 378 00:23:22,966 --> 00:23:25,273 and swore by, you can never have them. 379 00:23:25,316 --> 00:23:27,667 But even though now, in his warped ways, 380 00:23:27,710 --> 00:23:31,018 he's able to gain control over these girls. They're his. 381 00:23:32,019 --> 00:23:34,108 And he decided on this one day, 382 00:23:34,151 --> 00:23:36,110 this precipitating event, the argument 383 00:23:36,153 --> 00:23:38,808 with mom, to pick up that gun. 384 00:23:40,636 --> 00:23:41,985 - He thought about it for a long time, 385 00:23:42,029 --> 00:23:43,378 and he just did it. 386 00:23:44,379 --> 00:23:46,686 - Mary Ann Pesce and Anita Luchessa 387 00:23:46,729 --> 00:23:48,644 were the first ones that were murdered. 388 00:24:08,838 --> 00:24:10,623 One has flowers in her hand. 389 00:24:10,666 --> 00:24:12,842 Petite little dolls and they're hitchhiking, 390 00:24:12,886 --> 00:24:14,409 a couple of real experts. 391 00:24:14,453 --> 00:24:16,106 I want to see how together I am, 392 00:24:16,150 --> 00:24:18,152 if I can resist this temptation. 393 00:24:18,195 --> 00:24:20,937 - These two victims really fit 394 00:24:20,981 --> 00:24:22,852 the fantasy, the profile. 395 00:24:23,853 --> 00:24:27,030 They're very, very petite, very attractive. 396 00:24:27,901 --> 00:24:30,817 But he says, "I knew I was going to kill them." 397 00:24:38,955 --> 00:24:40,304 - Because he worked for the state, 398 00:24:40,348 --> 00:24:42,263 he knew areas where to take the girls. 399 00:24:44,221 --> 00:24:46,006 Luchessa was in the front seat. 400 00:24:46,049 --> 00:24:47,703 Pesce was in the back. 401 00:24:49,879 --> 00:24:51,794 He cuffs Pesce. 402 00:24:56,190 --> 00:24:58,279 - Gained control of Luchessa. 403 00:24:59,976 --> 00:25:03,197 Takes Luchessa, puts her in the trunk. 404 00:25:06,417 --> 00:25:09,203 He's favoring Pesce in the back seat. 405 00:25:10,291 --> 00:25:11,684 But he's going to kill her. 406 00:25:11,727 --> 00:25:12,989 - When I attacked her, she didn't 407 00:25:13,033 --> 00:25:14,251 at first realize what was happening. 408 00:25:14,295 --> 00:25:15,426 It didn't go through. 409 00:25:17,559 --> 00:25:19,213 - She had very heavy coveralls on. 410 00:25:19,256 --> 00:25:21,737 It knocked her right into the lid of the car, 411 00:25:21,781 --> 00:25:23,260 but it didn't pierce the clothing. 412 00:25:23,304 --> 00:25:25,088 It wasn't that swell a knife anyway. 413 00:25:26,220 --> 00:25:28,135 I kept on just mindlessly attacking. 414 00:25:32,922 --> 00:25:34,837 - He said he cut her ear to ear. 415 00:25:34,881 --> 00:25:36,143 He said, "It's not like in the movies. 416 00:25:36,186 --> 00:25:37,448 You know, it's so tough. 417 00:25:37,492 --> 00:25:39,842 It's so tough to kill somebody." 418 00:25:39,886 --> 00:25:42,366 "You know, like in the movies," he says, "you cut somebody, 419 00:25:42,410 --> 00:25:45,239 and then they bleed out, and it just didn't work." 420 00:25:46,109 --> 00:25:49,069 Like many serial offenders--he would be the first one 421 00:25:49,112 --> 00:25:51,158 to tell us this--he wasn't good at the beginning. 422 00:25:51,201 --> 00:25:53,987 He didn't have control of his victims. 423 00:25:54,030 --> 00:25:56,990 Now he had Luchessa in the trunk. 424 00:25:57,556 --> 00:25:59,253 - I had just gone through a horrible experience 425 00:25:59,296 --> 00:26:01,951 with her roommate, stabbing her, 426 00:26:01,995 --> 00:26:03,823 and I was in shock because of it. 427 00:26:03,866 --> 00:26:05,781 I couldn't believe that it was that way, 428 00:26:05,825 --> 00:26:07,304 and I'm walking back there, bewildered. 429 00:26:07,348 --> 00:26:08,915 I got to kill her. I can't let her go. 430 00:26:08,958 --> 00:26:10,264 She's gonna tell on me. 431 00:26:10,307 --> 00:26:12,048 Everybody's gonna get me. 432 00:26:12,092 --> 00:26:13,441 She sees the blood on my hands. 433 00:26:13,484 --> 00:26:14,790 "What are you doing?" 434 00:26:14,834 --> 00:26:16,792 She pulled back, and she gasped. 435 00:26:18,098 --> 00:26:19,882 And I think, "Whoa, 436 00:26:19,926 --> 00:26:21,536 I don't want her to know what happened." 437 00:26:23,930 --> 00:26:26,323 I said, "Your friend got smart with me, and I hit her. 438 00:26:26,367 --> 00:26:28,325 I think I broke her nose. You better come help." 439 00:26:28,369 --> 00:26:30,066 She's about to die. Why do-- 440 00:26:30,110 --> 00:26:31,894 Why does she have to know that? 441 00:26:31,938 --> 00:26:34,331 I couldn't deal with telling her that. 442 00:26:37,944 --> 00:26:39,293 - He said, "I was stabbing her in the back." 443 00:26:42,165 --> 00:26:45,125 - "And I was hitting her bone, and then as she turned around, 444 00:26:45,168 --> 00:26:46,953 "I was stabbing her in the chest. 445 00:26:46,996 --> 00:26:49,129 "Her breasts were there, 446 00:26:49,172 --> 00:26:51,479 "but I couldn't stab her. That'd be terrible 447 00:26:51,522 --> 00:26:53,437 for me to stab her in the breasts." 448 00:26:54,438 --> 00:26:55,962 And it just seemed so weird 449 00:26:56,005 --> 00:26:57,093 what's going through his brain. 450 00:26:58,573 --> 00:27:00,967 So then he tosses them both in the trunk of his car. 451 00:27:01,010 --> 00:27:02,925 - I slammed down the lid of the trunk. 452 00:27:03,883 --> 00:27:05,536 She isn't dead. She's dying. 453 00:27:07,147 --> 00:27:08,452 And I panicked. I thought, 454 00:27:08,496 --> 00:27:09,932 I just locked the car keys in there 455 00:27:09,976 --> 00:27:12,152 'cause I can't find them in my pocket. 456 00:27:12,195 --> 00:27:14,241 Oh, my God, I locked them in the trunk. 457 00:27:14,284 --> 00:27:16,852 I'm kicking on the trunk lid and yanking on it. 458 00:27:17,331 --> 00:27:19,333 Oh, no, I don't believe this. 459 00:27:19,376 --> 00:27:20,639 I stopped. I said, 460 00:27:20,682 --> 00:27:22,118 "Stop and think." 461 00:27:22,162 --> 00:27:23,598 I collected my wits. 462 00:27:23,642 --> 00:27:25,339 Check all your pocket. 463 00:27:26,079 --> 00:27:27,471 I checked all my pockets, 464 00:27:27,515 --> 00:27:29,169 and there's the keys in the back pocket. 465 00:27:29,212 --> 00:27:31,084 I never put them in my back pocket. 466 00:27:32,563 --> 00:27:35,479 - He's driving now back to his apartment. 467 00:27:36,698 --> 00:27:39,353 There are two dead bodies in his trunk. 468 00:27:43,226 --> 00:27:45,925 He was pulled over for a taillight. 469 00:27:47,361 --> 00:27:49,580 He pulls him over, and he gets out of the car. 470 00:27:51,495 --> 00:27:54,368 What's wrong, officer? You have a broken taillight. 471 00:27:56,022 --> 00:27:58,546 And he says, "Do you want to go check in the trunk 472 00:27:58,589 --> 00:28:00,591 to see what's wrong? Maybe it's a loose wire." 473 00:28:00,635 --> 00:28:02,506 And the officer then 474 00:28:02,550 --> 00:28:05,248 thinks that this is the most cooperative citizen 475 00:28:05,292 --> 00:28:07,381 and just gives him a warning. 476 00:28:09,383 --> 00:28:12,429 I said, "Ed." I said, "What would you have done-- 477 00:28:12,473 --> 00:28:14,649 "what would you have done if he took a look in there? 478 00:28:14,693 --> 00:28:16,216 He's gonna find two bodies." 479 00:28:16,259 --> 00:28:18,087 He was prepared to kill him. 480 00:28:39,718 --> 00:28:42,764 - The first 24 hours, I should have been busted, 481 00:28:42,808 --> 00:28:47,203 and I wasn't because people got scared 482 00:28:47,247 --> 00:28:50,990 and minded their own business and looked the other way. 483 00:28:51,033 --> 00:28:52,861 I thought I was pretty slick. 484 00:28:57,561 --> 00:28:58,824 - He takes those victims, 485 00:28:58,867 --> 00:28:59,955 Pesce and Luchessa, 486 00:28:59,999 --> 00:29:01,740 back to his apartment, 487 00:29:02,828 --> 00:29:04,220 where he then... 488 00:29:06,222 --> 00:29:07,963 eviscerates them... 489 00:29:09,530 --> 00:29:10,923 and has sex with, 490 00:29:10,966 --> 00:29:13,708 you know, the head and the body parts. 491 00:29:16,842 --> 00:29:20,106 - I think what haunted me was that he had sex 492 00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:22,064 with both the heads 493 00:29:22,108 --> 00:29:24,763 and with the decapitated bodies. 494 00:29:25,851 --> 00:29:29,506 You can picture that. You know, you just can, 495 00:29:29,550 --> 00:29:34,642 and it sounded so brutal and so cold 496 00:29:34,685 --> 00:29:38,646 and so calculated and so awful, 497 00:29:38,689 --> 00:29:40,996 just so awful. 498 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,870 - But what people can't really understand easily is, 499 00:29:44,913 --> 00:29:47,655 why do they have to go beyond the murder, 500 00:29:47,698 --> 00:29:49,962 and the answer is, the killing alone 501 00:29:50,005 --> 00:29:52,529 is not psychosexually sufficient. 502 00:29:53,704 --> 00:29:55,837 And the idea is, someone kills someone 503 00:29:55,881 --> 00:29:57,534 and then has sex with the body, 504 00:29:57,578 --> 00:29:59,232 because if she was alive, 505 00:29:59,275 --> 00:30:01,538 he'd be too intimidated, so if you kill her, 506 00:30:01,582 --> 00:30:03,236 she's unresisting. 507 00:30:03,279 --> 00:30:05,020 - He felt he would be rejected. 508 00:30:05,064 --> 00:30:08,154 His sex life, it was almost nonexistent. 509 00:30:08,197 --> 00:30:09,982 I don't think he felt comfortable 510 00:30:10,025 --> 00:30:12,636 that he could have sex with a woman when she was alive. 511 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,075 By murdering them and dismembering them, 512 00:30:16,118 --> 00:30:18,991 having sex with them, he was able to possess them 513 00:30:19,034 --> 00:30:22,603 in a way that he felt he couldn't possess them alive. 514 00:31:12,958 --> 00:31:16,178 - The only effect it had on him is ,"God, this was tough. 515 00:31:16,222 --> 00:31:17,876 "It was tough killing them. 516 00:31:17,919 --> 00:31:19,747 "I thought it would be a lot easier. 517 00:31:19,790 --> 00:31:22,010 "I have to maybe modify my M.O. 518 00:31:22,054 --> 00:31:24,099 a little bit in the future." 519 00:31:33,674 --> 00:31:36,155 - My mother was a sick, angry, 520 00:31:36,198 --> 00:31:39,941 hungry, and very sad woman. 521 00:31:39,985 --> 00:31:43,771 I hated her, but I wanted to love my mother, 522 00:31:43,814 --> 00:31:46,078 and I watched the alcohol increase. 523 00:31:46,121 --> 00:31:48,732 I watched her social life drop off. 524 00:31:48,776 --> 00:31:51,170 I watched her get bizarre. 525 00:31:51,213 --> 00:31:54,260 She had terrible pain from her life, earlier life, 526 00:31:54,303 --> 00:31:56,175 her upbringing, 527 00:31:56,218 --> 00:31:57,872 a failed marriage with my father. 528 00:31:57,916 --> 00:31:59,918 I'm a constant reminder of that failure. 529 00:32:03,008 --> 00:32:04,966 - His mother belittled him. 530 00:32:05,793 --> 00:32:07,360 Told him that nobody's gonna want him, 531 00:32:07,403 --> 00:32:09,057 that he was no good. 532 00:32:12,931 --> 00:32:15,107 - She was an alcoholic. 533 00:32:15,150 --> 00:32:17,152 She would come home soused at nighttime 534 00:32:17,196 --> 00:32:18,849 and tell him, "You, you bum, I haven't had 535 00:32:18,893 --> 00:32:20,721 sexual relations with a man in seven years." 536 00:32:20,764 --> 00:32:22,679 Everything was on him. 537 00:32:28,772 --> 00:32:31,340 Now, Kemper, he had what we call a murder kit. 538 00:32:31,384 --> 00:32:35,301 A murder kit would include a knife, a gun, a gag, cuffs. 539 00:32:36,128 --> 00:32:39,827 The next victim, Aiko Koo, was precipitated on the fact 540 00:32:39,870 --> 00:32:42,351 that his mother was on his case again. 541 00:32:42,395 --> 00:32:45,180 - Aiko Koo was a little girl, really. 542 00:32:45,224 --> 00:32:47,095 She was just 15 years old, 543 00:32:47,139 --> 00:32:49,706 and she had been going to dance class. 544 00:32:52,231 --> 00:32:55,016 - She misses a bus, so she's hitchhiking. 545 00:32:56,365 --> 00:32:58,019 Up comes Kemper, sees her 546 00:32:58,063 --> 00:33:00,195 at a distance, perfect victim, petite. 547 00:33:07,768 --> 00:33:09,248 - She gets into the car with him, 548 00:33:09,291 --> 00:33:10,989 and he starts driving. 549 00:33:13,034 --> 00:33:15,994 She realizes she's not being taken where she wants to go. 550 00:33:38,103 --> 00:33:42,194 - And he pulls a gun on her. It freaks her out. 551 00:33:42,237 --> 00:33:44,761 So he soon realizes that "I can't do this with a gun," 552 00:33:44,805 --> 00:33:46,720 so he hides the gun 'cause she's freaking out, 553 00:33:46,763 --> 00:33:48,809 so she calms down. 554 00:33:49,766 --> 00:33:53,335 Then he has to get out of the car for some reason. 555 00:33:55,511 --> 00:33:58,427 But the mistake that he made was, 556 00:33:58,471 --> 00:34:00,386 is that he locked himself out of the car 557 00:34:00,429 --> 00:34:03,389 with Aiko Koo in the car, with his gun. 558 00:34:06,435 --> 00:34:09,786 He was such a mastermind, a manipulator. 559 00:34:10,787 --> 00:34:12,528 He was able to convince her, 560 00:34:12,572 --> 00:34:15,836 to talk her into opening up that door. 561 00:34:19,144 --> 00:34:20,536 - She let me back in the car. 562 00:34:20,580 --> 00:34:22,538 I locked myself out. 563 00:34:22,582 --> 00:34:24,801 She opened the door for me. 564 00:34:26,455 --> 00:34:29,110 What in the hell am I doing telling you that? 565 00:34:29,154 --> 00:34:33,332 Am I a masochist? Am I looking to be tormented further? 566 00:34:33,375 --> 00:34:36,509 I'm trying to show you just how 567 00:34:36,552 --> 00:34:40,556 awful this got, how commanding these rages got. 568 00:34:43,472 --> 00:34:47,346 - He's gonna use a scarf on her to strangle her to death. 569 00:34:51,306 --> 00:34:53,526 Then he decapitates her. 570 00:34:56,094 --> 00:34:57,791 - Why did you keep the heads? 571 00:34:57,834 --> 00:34:59,923 Why did you cut them off, and why did you keep them? 572 00:34:59,967 --> 00:35:02,491 - Something out of my childhood. 573 00:35:02,535 --> 00:35:05,015 Um... 574 00:35:05,059 --> 00:35:07,105 I could put it on an incident, I mean, 575 00:35:07,148 --> 00:35:09,933 my father chopping the heads off our two pet chickens 576 00:35:09,977 --> 00:35:12,980 and my mother insisting that I eat them for dinner. 577 00:35:13,023 --> 00:35:14,982 Uh you know? 578 00:35:15,025 --> 00:35:16,897 We could say it was something that simple. 579 00:35:16,940 --> 00:35:18,377 I don't think it was. 580 00:35:18,420 --> 00:35:20,944 Now, my dad heads out back with a hatchet. 581 00:35:21,336 --> 00:35:23,077 I got on my bike, and I rode over. 582 00:35:23,121 --> 00:35:24,818 I tried to stop it. I remember that. 583 00:35:24,861 --> 00:35:27,342 I got on a bike, rode around the block. 584 00:35:27,386 --> 00:35:31,303 I was crying. I haven't talked about that for a lot of years. 585 00:35:31,346 --> 00:35:34,001 I'm sure that may have implemented something. 586 00:35:34,044 --> 00:35:37,309 That may have gotten something rolling along fantasy lines, 587 00:35:37,352 --> 00:35:39,180 but it took a lot of years of development 588 00:35:39,224 --> 00:35:41,530 along those lines to really get off. 589 00:35:45,534 --> 00:35:47,319 - The day after he murdered Aiko Koo, 590 00:35:47,362 --> 00:35:49,364 he had to see a psychiatrist. 591 00:35:50,235 --> 00:35:52,324 - When he got out of Atascadero as a juvenile, 592 00:35:52,367 --> 00:35:54,282 he had to go through a certain period of time 593 00:35:54,326 --> 00:35:55,979 and then be reevaluated. 594 00:35:57,155 --> 00:35:59,418 - Kemper was smart. 595 00:35:59,461 --> 00:36:01,594 He knew what they were looking for to determine 596 00:36:01,637 --> 00:36:04,205 whether or not someone was sane or insane, 597 00:36:04,249 --> 00:36:07,426 and because of that, he did extremely well. 598 00:36:09,602 --> 00:36:11,865 - Kemper is gonna say, "You guys cured me 599 00:36:11,908 --> 00:36:13,432 over there at Atascadero. 600 00:36:13,475 --> 00:36:15,477 You guys are phenomenal." 601 00:36:15,521 --> 00:36:18,219 And so the psychiatrist did what he thought was 602 00:36:18,263 --> 00:36:20,265 right and basically said, "He's fine. 603 00:36:20,308 --> 00:36:22,049 He doesn't need us anymore." 604 00:36:26,096 --> 00:36:30,057 - Well, what they didn't know is that Aiko Koo's head 605 00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:33,452 happened to be in the trunk of his vehicle. 606 00:36:37,499 --> 00:36:42,330 - He had bodies in his trunk when he was declared sane. 607 00:36:42,374 --> 00:36:45,377 It really bothered me as a therapist 608 00:36:45,420 --> 00:36:49,337 that two psychiatrists had declared him sane. 609 00:36:49,381 --> 00:36:51,252 I was horrified. 610 00:36:53,036 --> 00:36:54,908 - In the meantime, bodies were turning up 611 00:36:54,951 --> 00:36:57,389 in the city of Santa Cruz that might've been linked 612 00:36:57,432 --> 00:37:00,261 toward the drug industry, but we had no idea. 613 00:37:07,703 --> 00:37:11,446 - My first day at work, my very first story that I wrote 614 00:37:11,490 --> 00:37:14,406 was that a head had been found in the Santa Cruz mountains. 615 00:37:14,449 --> 00:37:16,234 It was a shock to everybody. 616 00:37:18,148 --> 00:37:20,629 - It's like a fog settled over the county. 617 00:37:20,673 --> 00:37:22,501 People were scared. 618 00:37:22,544 --> 00:37:25,112 - Being a small person --I'm 5'1"-- 619 00:37:25,155 --> 00:37:26,548 I never saw myself as somebody 620 00:37:26,592 --> 00:37:29,290 that could defend myself. I never felt safe. 621 00:37:29,334 --> 00:37:31,292 - Police were besides themselves. 622 00:37:31,336 --> 00:37:33,338 What the hell do they have going on here? 623 00:37:33,381 --> 00:37:36,341 Surf City was now evolving into Murder City. 624 00:37:37,342 --> 00:37:38,952 - We were under a lot of pressure. 625 00:37:38,995 --> 00:37:41,302 People would always want to know what's happening. 626 00:37:41,346 --> 00:37:42,738 Why is this happening? 627 00:37:42,782 --> 00:37:44,436 We had no idea. 628 00:37:44,479 --> 00:37:46,438 We didn't have any real crime scenes, 629 00:37:46,481 --> 00:37:49,049 so the evidence couldn't be traced back. 630 00:37:49,092 --> 00:37:51,443 - There is no apparent motive. 631 00:37:51,486 --> 00:37:53,227 The victims are all unrelated, 632 00:37:53,271 --> 00:37:55,621 and they're just unprovoked, senseless killings. 633 00:37:55,664 --> 00:37:57,318 - There wasn't DNA evidence. 634 00:37:57,362 --> 00:37:58,537 There wasn't anything like that, 635 00:37:58,580 --> 00:38:00,365 so they were trying to track 636 00:38:00,408 --> 00:38:02,541 where bodies were coming from, 637 00:38:02,584 --> 00:38:04,412 what pattern there was in there, and it was hard 638 00:38:04,456 --> 00:38:06,196 to figure out any sort of pattern. 639 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:08,373 They would just throw up their hands and say, 640 00:38:08,416 --> 00:38:10,113 "We don't know what's happening." 641 00:38:17,077 --> 00:38:19,340 - We're still fighting. She's still belittling. 642 00:38:19,384 --> 00:38:21,168 I'm like a puppet on a string. 643 00:38:21,211 --> 00:38:22,474 - It's like boiling water, 644 00:38:22,517 --> 00:38:24,302 and he can only take so much of this. 645 00:38:25,477 --> 00:38:28,610 - I knew a week before she died I was gonna kill my mother. 646 00:38:46,976 --> 00:38:49,631 - The minute he'd get upset with something, 647 00:38:49,675 --> 00:38:52,678 his immediate response was to kill. 648 00:38:52,721 --> 00:38:56,159 - And once he did it once, it was so stimulating 649 00:38:56,203 --> 00:38:58,684 and so arousing that the urge 650 00:38:58,727 --> 00:39:02,296 or the compulsion to do it again just took over. 651 00:39:02,340 --> 00:39:04,080 - But rather than strike out at mom at this point, 652 00:39:04,124 --> 00:39:05,734 he's going on the hunt. 653 00:39:08,258 --> 00:39:10,696 He's a lion on the Serengeti plain 654 00:39:10,739 --> 00:39:12,828 looking for that weak, vulnerable person. 655 00:39:13,699 --> 00:39:15,831 - I was picking up some very lovely young women. 656 00:39:16,571 --> 00:39:19,095 You know what we were talking about as we're driving around? 657 00:39:19,139 --> 00:39:21,054 Almost as often as not, 658 00:39:21,097 --> 00:39:23,317 this guy that's going around doing this stuff, 659 00:39:23,361 --> 00:39:25,232 and the second they started talking that, 660 00:39:25,275 --> 00:39:28,235 they didn't realize it, but they were getting a free ride. 661 00:39:28,278 --> 00:39:31,151 I couldn't touch that with a 10-foot pole, I swear. 662 00:39:31,194 --> 00:39:33,066 But they'd be telling me all about this guy, 663 00:39:33,109 --> 00:39:34,546 and they're comparing notes, 664 00:39:34,589 --> 00:39:36,156 speculating on what he looks like, 665 00:39:36,199 --> 00:39:38,985 how he carries himself, why he's doing this stuff, 666 00:39:39,028 --> 00:39:40,334 telling me about it. 667 00:39:41,074 --> 00:39:42,597 - So how come they get in a car 668 00:39:42,641 --> 00:39:43,946 with somebody at that time? 669 00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:46,122 - She judged me not to be that guy. 670 00:39:48,037 --> 00:39:49,778 I didn't look like him. 671 00:39:53,391 --> 00:39:55,784 - He was getting better and better. 672 00:40:02,138 --> 00:40:04,271 - And one of the things that he told me was, 673 00:40:04,314 --> 00:40:06,621 eventually, when he picked somebody up, 674 00:40:06,665 --> 00:40:08,275 once they got in and sat down 675 00:40:08,318 --> 00:40:10,059 and they closed the passenger door, 676 00:40:11,278 --> 00:40:14,716 he would reach across that passenger, open up the door, 677 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,370 and close it, pretending to make sure 678 00:40:16,414 --> 00:40:18,720 that the door was closed, but in actuality 679 00:40:18,764 --> 00:40:21,027 he was dropping a ChapStick in the track, 680 00:40:21,070 --> 00:40:23,725 so that you could not open the door from the inside. 681 00:40:27,163 --> 00:40:29,209 And he figured once they got in the car, 682 00:40:29,252 --> 00:40:31,167 they belonged to him. 683 00:41:18,824 --> 00:41:20,782 - When he decapitated her, 684 00:41:20,826 --> 00:41:23,263 he then went outside with the head 685 00:41:24,220 --> 00:41:27,049 and placed this victim's head in the ground, 686 00:41:27,093 --> 00:41:30,705 facing up at mom's window. Why'd you do that? 687 00:41:30,749 --> 00:41:32,881 And he laughs, and he says, 688 00:41:32,925 --> 00:41:36,058 "Because Mom always wanted people to look up to her. 689 00:41:36,102 --> 00:41:37,669 That's why I did it." 690 00:41:37,712 --> 00:41:39,714 He was boasting about the crime. 691 00:41:40,715 --> 00:41:44,066 - Meanwhile, why his mother didn't know that 692 00:41:44,110 --> 00:41:46,982 there had been digging going on in the back yard, I don't know. 693 00:41:47,026 --> 00:41:49,202 Neighbors could've found out. It was a small backyard. 694 00:41:49,245 --> 00:41:50,508 There was a fence around it, 695 00:41:50,551 --> 00:41:52,118 but, you know, it was very visible 696 00:41:52,161 --> 00:41:54,686 from the other houses. I'm just trying to think 697 00:41:54,729 --> 00:41:56,514 what time of day he must've buried them. 698 00:41:56,557 --> 00:41:59,821 - It was getting easier to do. I was getting better at it. 699 00:41:59,865 --> 00:42:01,214 I was getting less detectible. 700 00:42:01,257 --> 00:42:05,261 I started flaunting that invisibility. 701 00:42:05,305 --> 00:42:07,176 Severing a human head at night 702 00:42:07,220 --> 00:42:09,962 in front of my mother's residence with her at home, 703 00:42:10,005 --> 00:42:11,833 my neighbors at home upstairs, 704 00:42:11,877 --> 00:42:14,140 their picture window open, the curtains open. 705 00:42:14,183 --> 00:42:16,185 11:00 at night, the lights are on. 706 00:42:16,229 --> 00:42:18,971 All they have to do is walk by, look out, and I've had it. 707 00:42:19,928 --> 00:42:23,236 To be walking up the stairs with a camera bag 708 00:42:23,279 --> 00:42:25,194 that belonged to a young woman 709 00:42:25,238 --> 00:42:27,066 that had her severed head in it, 710 00:42:27,109 --> 00:42:30,025 walking up to my apartment, past a happy young couple 711 00:42:30,069 --> 00:42:31,723 coming down the stairs 712 00:42:31,766 --> 00:42:34,334 who nodded and smiled at me 713 00:42:34,377 --> 00:42:37,293 as they went by. "Good evening." 714 00:42:37,337 --> 00:42:38,904 And they're going out on a date, 715 00:42:38,947 --> 00:42:40,558 where I'd love to be going, 716 00:42:40,601 --> 00:42:42,560 and I'm aware of both of these realities, 717 00:42:42,603 --> 00:42:45,911 and the distance between those is so dramatic, 718 00:42:45,954 --> 00:42:50,437 so amazing, so violent that it really-- 719 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,918 I could feel the wheels squeaking inside. 720 00:42:52,961 --> 00:42:54,963 Some people go crazy at that point. 721 00:42:55,007 --> 00:42:56,791 I felt it. It was one hell of a tweak, 722 00:42:56,835 --> 00:42:58,924 and I imagine at that point some people break, 723 00:42:58,967 --> 00:43:01,100 but I didn't literally go insane. 724 00:43:01,143 --> 00:43:02,928 I didn't get lost. 725 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,939 - Remember, Edmund Kemper wanted to be a policeman, 726 00:43:13,982 --> 00:43:16,463 but there was no way he was gonna be a policeman, 727 00:43:16,506 --> 00:43:18,465 but he did like to hang out with the policemen 728 00:43:18,508 --> 00:43:20,946 at the Jury Room on Ocean Street. 729 00:43:23,035 --> 00:43:25,080 And he knew them. He drank with them. 730 00:43:26,168 --> 00:43:28,257 - Sleazy little bar 731 00:43:28,301 --> 00:43:30,999 across from the courthouse in Santa Cruz. 732 00:43:31,957 --> 00:43:34,133 A lot of cops would go there in those days 733 00:43:34,176 --> 00:43:36,265 and have a drink. 734 00:43:39,442 --> 00:43:41,488 He loved to hang out there. 735 00:43:43,011 --> 00:43:44,447 He was a real groupie. 736 00:43:44,491 --> 00:43:46,145 - It's what they call a wannabe. 737 00:43:49,148 --> 00:43:51,846 - They'd buy me a beer. I'd buy them a beer. 738 00:43:51,890 --> 00:43:54,457 Casual relationships. But that was--I was poking 739 00:43:54,501 --> 00:43:57,156 around a little bit, trying to find some things out. 740 00:43:57,199 --> 00:43:59,288 I knew they wouldn't be privy to hot information, 741 00:43:59,332 --> 00:44:01,334 but there were some things that were bothering me. 742 00:44:01,377 --> 00:44:03,075 Like, were there any speculations 743 00:44:03,118 --> 00:44:04,816 on how they were dying. 744 00:44:04,859 --> 00:44:06,513 - Did the cops like you? 745 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:09,908 - I could say, a friendly nuisance. 746 00:44:09,951 --> 00:44:13,128 I got in the way, and it was deliberate. 747 00:44:13,172 --> 00:44:15,043 Friendly nuisances are dismissed. 748 00:44:16,523 --> 00:44:19,918 - He was just trying to gain whatever information he can. 749 00:44:19,961 --> 00:44:22,311 If he overheard somebody say, "Well, 750 00:44:22,355 --> 00:44:24,183 this guy did this, and he shouldn't have 751 00:44:24,226 --> 00:44:26,185 done it that way. He should've done it this way. 752 00:44:26,228 --> 00:44:30,842 - The dynamics of this type of behavior are very important 753 00:44:30,885 --> 00:44:32,931 to make him feel unique, 754 00:44:32,974 --> 00:44:34,454 to make him feel 755 00:44:34,497 --> 00:44:36,978 ahead of everybody else, of getting away with it. 756 00:44:37,022 --> 00:44:39,372 He's kind of the super killer, 757 00:44:39,415 --> 00:44:41,940 not just an ordinary killer, 758 00:44:41,983 --> 00:44:44,290 that he can put it over on them. 759 00:44:45,378 --> 00:44:46,988 - High intelligence like that 760 00:44:47,032 --> 00:44:49,382 helps Kemper in avoiding detection. 761 00:44:49,425 --> 00:44:50,949 - How did you get the knowledge 762 00:44:50,992 --> 00:44:52,951 to outsmart the police? 763 00:44:52,994 --> 00:44:55,649 - Watching television, believe it or not. 764 00:44:56,345 --> 00:44:58,391 Joseph Wambaugh, "Police Story." 765 00:44:58,434 --> 00:45:01,611 I got some tremendous insights into not just the gimmicks, 766 00:45:01,655 --> 00:45:03,352 the actual things, the tidbits 767 00:45:03,396 --> 00:45:05,572 that you would pick up from their procedures 768 00:45:05,615 --> 00:45:09,054 but the mechanics behind that, the logic behind it 769 00:45:09,097 --> 00:45:11,273 was, I would not allow myself to walk into 770 00:45:11,317 --> 00:45:14,407 even a potential trap of behavior. 771 00:45:15,451 --> 00:45:19,151 And one of those was talking about those crimes too much 772 00:45:19,194 --> 00:45:22,458 to people, initiating conversations about that. 773 00:45:22,502 --> 00:45:26,680 - He likes to claim that he's smarter than everybody else. 774 00:45:26,724 --> 00:45:28,203 He may be. 775 00:45:34,470 --> 00:45:36,995 - Some police department, now, they actually 776 00:45:37,038 --> 00:45:39,432 came to your house to pick up a handgun. 777 00:45:39,475 --> 00:45:40,912 - Sheriff's representatives. 778 00:45:40,955 --> 00:45:43,436 One of the detectives was 779 00:45:43,479 --> 00:45:46,918 upset because he heard I had a .44 magnum pistol 780 00:45:46,961 --> 00:45:51,096 and was a convicted mental patient and killer. 781 00:45:52,488 --> 00:45:55,622 - I got a notification that a man by the name 782 00:45:55,665 --> 00:45:59,626 of Edmund Emil Kemper III had purchased a handgun. 783 00:45:59,669 --> 00:46:01,584 In looking at Mr. Kemper's record, 784 00:46:01,628 --> 00:46:05,110 he had been convicted of murdering his grandparents 785 00:46:05,153 --> 00:46:08,113 a few years earlier, so there was some question as to 786 00:46:08,156 --> 00:46:10,593 whether or not he should be allowed to own that gun, 787 00:46:10,637 --> 00:46:12,552 so when you look at the dealer's record of sale, 788 00:46:12,595 --> 00:46:14,293 it gives his physical description. 789 00:46:14,336 --> 00:46:16,295 - They joked about it at the sheriff's department. 790 00:46:16,338 --> 00:46:18,123 This guy's 6'9" or 6'10". 791 00:46:18,166 --> 00:46:20,299 I'm gonna need some help getting the gun away. 792 00:46:20,342 --> 00:46:21,996 - So being the junior detective, 793 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,563 I was the one that was tasked with 794 00:46:23,606 --> 00:46:26,000 going out and confiscating this weapon. 795 00:46:28,002 --> 00:46:30,091 So we went out to Kemper's residence. 796 00:46:31,658 --> 00:46:33,138 - They came to take the gun away, 797 00:46:33,181 --> 00:46:34,704 he and his sergeant detective. 798 00:46:34,748 --> 00:46:36,576 They were staking out the wrong house. 799 00:46:36,619 --> 00:46:38,317 It was across the street, and I'm playing around 800 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,319 with the car, standing next to the gun 801 00:46:40,362 --> 00:46:41,668 in the trunk. 802 00:46:42,843 --> 00:46:44,976 - So I told Don, I says, "Hang on a second. 803 00:46:45,019 --> 00:46:47,717 Let's go talk to this guy and see if he knows Kemper." 804 00:46:49,589 --> 00:46:52,635 So I walk over, and by then the gentleman in the car 805 00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:54,507 was lying across the seat 806 00:46:54,550 --> 00:46:56,596 like he's working up under his dashboard, 807 00:46:56,639 --> 00:46:59,381 like, wires or something like that. 808 00:46:59,425 --> 00:47:01,644 So I said, "Excuse me, can I talk to you?" 809 00:47:01,688 --> 00:47:04,778 The guy says, "Sure." So he gets out of the car, 810 00:47:04,822 --> 00:47:08,390 and he gets out of the car, and he gets out of the car. 811 00:47:09,478 --> 00:47:12,612 He's 6'9", 285 pounds. 812 00:47:12,655 --> 00:47:14,005 I told Don. I said, 813 00:47:14,048 --> 00:47:15,441 "I think we found the right guy." 814 00:47:17,399 --> 00:47:21,360 - I knew a week before she died I was gonna murder my mother. 815 00:47:21,403 --> 00:47:23,579 - He drags her over into the kitchen. 816 00:47:23,623 --> 00:47:27,627 - I cut off her head, and I humiliated her corpse. 817 00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:29,455 - Having sex with his mother's head, 818 00:47:29,498 --> 00:47:31,718 I don't know what it says psychologically. 819 00:47:31,761 --> 00:47:35,853 - Six young women dead because of the way she raises her son, 820 00:47:35,896 --> 00:47:38,725 and what's her closing words? 821 00:47:38,768 --> 00:47:41,206 "I suppose you want to sit up all night and talk." 822 00:47:41,249 --> 00:47:43,164 God, I wish I had. 823 00:48:00,878 --> 00:48:03,184 - A week ago today, four more bodies were discovered 824 00:48:03,228 --> 00:48:05,186 in a connected series of murders. 825 00:48:05,230 --> 00:48:08,929 - Neither the mayor nor police are making any predictions 826 00:48:08,973 --> 00:48:12,150 as to when or how an arrest will be made. 827 00:48:12,193 --> 00:48:14,108 - Women hitchhikers were in danger. 828 00:48:14,152 --> 00:48:16,110 Not just were body parts flowing in, 829 00:48:16,154 --> 00:48:19,113 but people were missing, and nobody was understanding. 830 00:48:31,169 --> 00:48:33,301 - They come over and asked me about, 831 00:48:33,345 --> 00:48:35,956 "Excuse me, sir, uh, 832 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,132 do you know who lives in this house across the street here?" 833 00:48:38,176 --> 00:48:40,787 And they were looking for me and didn't even know that-- 834 00:48:40,830 --> 00:48:42,876 see what I mean? Bad news. 835 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,184 They said, "Are you Ed Kemper?" Yes. And it goes on. 836 00:48:50,362 --> 00:48:52,190 - I explained to him why we were there, 837 00:48:52,233 --> 00:48:53,887 what our position is, that we needed 838 00:48:53,931 --> 00:48:55,933 to confiscate this handgun. 839 00:48:57,021 --> 00:48:59,327 So he said, "Sure, no problem." He was very cooperative. 840 00:48:59,371 --> 00:49:02,940 - And, uh, I needed to find out what they were looking for, 841 00:49:02,983 --> 00:49:05,290 the murder weapon, the .22 automatic 842 00:49:05,333 --> 00:49:07,683 or the .44 magnum, and I don't want to advertise 843 00:49:07,727 --> 00:49:09,772 that I've got a whole bunch of guns. 844 00:49:10,338 --> 00:49:11,861 Uh... 845 00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:17,084 So I made a comment to divine between the two, 846 00:49:17,128 --> 00:49:19,695 and I said, "Yes, quite a little gun, isn't it?" 847 00:49:19,739 --> 00:49:23,699 And he retorted, "A .44 magnum? I hope so." 848 00:49:23,743 --> 00:49:26,702 And I said, "Phew, okay," because that loaded .22 849 00:49:26,746 --> 00:49:28,356 was under the front seat and would guarantee me 850 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,880 an arrest right on the spot, 851 00:49:30,924 --> 00:49:33,448 and the .44 was in the trunk. 852 00:49:36,277 --> 00:49:37,931 And he's thinking, "Boy, this is a really nice 853 00:49:37,975 --> 00:49:39,237 and helpful guy here." 854 00:49:40,107 --> 00:49:42,762 - We go to the trunk of his car. 855 00:49:42,805 --> 00:49:44,807 Instinctively, my partner and I 856 00:49:44,851 --> 00:49:47,419 went to each side of the car. 857 00:49:48,942 --> 00:49:51,814 And so as soon as he popped open the trunk, 858 00:49:51,858 --> 00:49:54,992 we told him just to step back and we would take it. 859 00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:57,472 So we opened up the trunk, 860 00:49:57,516 --> 00:50:00,040 and there was--it's, like, a blanket, 861 00:50:00,084 --> 00:50:01,389 and you unroll the blanket, 862 00:50:01,433 --> 00:50:03,043 and there was this western holster 863 00:50:03,087 --> 00:50:06,481 with this huge .44 magnum revolver in there, 864 00:50:06,525 --> 00:50:07,961 so we took it. 865 00:50:09,615 --> 00:50:11,443 - You had some other stuff in the house too, yeah? 866 00:50:11,486 --> 00:50:14,141 - Yeah. I had the personal effects 867 00:50:14,185 --> 00:50:16,404 and identification of the last two co-eds 868 00:50:16,448 --> 00:50:19,364 that had been murdered about two months before 869 00:50:19,407 --> 00:50:23,020 right next to the guns in the closet, in a box. 870 00:50:24,021 --> 00:50:25,848 - Could he have seen it? - No. 871 00:50:25,892 --> 00:50:27,894 But when he arrested me for having all those guns 872 00:50:27,937 --> 00:50:29,765 and went through the rest of the closet looking to see 873 00:50:29,809 --> 00:50:31,376 if there were any pistols or anything else, 874 00:50:31,419 --> 00:50:33,073 he wouldn't have--couldn't have helped notice 875 00:50:33,117 --> 00:50:35,423 a purse, a book bag, 876 00:50:35,467 --> 00:50:37,295 and co-ed I.D. inside of those 877 00:50:37,338 --> 00:50:40,298 belonging to their two latest murder victims. 878 00:50:42,474 --> 00:50:45,433 - He told me later that had Don and I 879 00:50:45,477 --> 00:50:48,088 not separated to each side of the car, 880 00:50:48,132 --> 00:50:50,047 that he was contemplating getting the gun out 881 00:50:50,090 --> 00:50:51,831 and killing both of us. 882 00:50:51,874 --> 00:50:53,920 In the meantime, all of these other homicides 883 00:50:53,963 --> 00:50:56,836 are occurring, and we had no clue. 884 00:50:57,532 --> 00:50:59,404 He was a very smart guy. 885 00:51:11,068 --> 00:51:13,070 - We're still fighting. She's still belittling me, 886 00:51:13,113 --> 00:51:15,420 like a puppet on a string. She knows all my buttons, 887 00:51:15,463 --> 00:51:17,509 and I dance like a puppet with that pain, 888 00:51:17,552 --> 00:51:19,598 and it even got physical 889 00:51:21,295 --> 00:51:23,993 to where I had physically grabbed her 890 00:51:24,037 --> 00:51:25,908 and thrown her onto her bed, 891 00:51:25,952 --> 00:51:27,519 trying to emphasize the point that she's-- 892 00:51:27,562 --> 00:51:29,434 I was threatening to kill her. 893 00:51:35,135 --> 00:51:38,225 - Ed Kemper's mother was an administrative assistant 894 00:51:38,269 --> 00:51:40,314 at UC Santa Cruz. 895 00:51:40,358 --> 00:51:41,924 - She was well liked. 896 00:51:41,968 --> 00:51:44,057 She was integrated into the campus. 897 00:51:45,537 --> 00:51:47,060 She clearly was part of that 898 00:51:47,104 --> 00:51:48,931 Santa Cruz community at the time. 899 00:51:48,975 --> 00:51:50,411 - You were involved in the campus 900 00:51:50,455 --> 00:51:51,934 because your mother worked there. 901 00:51:51,978 --> 00:51:53,153 - Yes. 902 00:51:54,198 --> 00:51:56,200 I was also involved in killing co-eds 903 00:51:56,243 --> 00:51:58,158 because my mother was associated 904 00:51:58,202 --> 00:52:00,900 with college work, college co-eds, 905 00:52:00,943 --> 00:52:02,380 women, 906 00:52:02,423 --> 00:52:05,470 and had had a very strong and violently 907 00:52:05,513 --> 00:52:11,128 outspoken position on men for much of my upbringing. 908 00:52:17,395 --> 00:52:19,527 - The university had said only to accept rides 909 00:52:19,571 --> 00:52:22,922 from people with UC stickers. Well, his mom worked at UC, 910 00:52:22,965 --> 00:52:25,664 and he was in a car that had a UC sticker. 911 00:52:29,407 --> 00:52:31,539 - So he looked safe, 912 00:52:31,583 --> 00:52:34,499 and that's how he was so successful. 913 00:52:39,591 --> 00:52:41,245 - You could see the pattern. 914 00:52:41,288 --> 00:52:43,986 - After a huge fight with his mother 915 00:52:44,030 --> 00:52:47,120 where they had screamed at each other for hours... 916 00:52:48,991 --> 00:52:50,471 he would go out and kill. 917 00:52:52,386 --> 00:52:56,042 - The next victims, Rosalind Thorpe and Alice Liu 918 00:52:56,085 --> 00:52:58,914 were UC Santa Cruz students 919 00:52:58,958 --> 00:53:01,700 who just were too trusting and got in the car. 920 00:53:04,093 --> 00:53:06,444 - Roz Thorpe was a free spirit. 921 00:53:07,662 --> 00:53:12,624 She was bright and lively. 922 00:53:12,667 --> 00:53:15,540 When she'd get a new record, she'd run into my office 923 00:53:15,583 --> 00:53:17,585 and say, "Got to hear this, got to hear this." 924 00:53:19,674 --> 00:53:23,635 When Roz went missing, they knocked on my door 925 00:53:23,678 --> 00:53:26,681 and said did I know where Roz Thorpe was. 926 00:53:26,725 --> 00:53:29,423 I knew that they were beginning to worry 927 00:53:29,467 --> 00:53:31,469 about the existence of this killer. 928 00:53:34,472 --> 00:53:37,692 And I immediately, um... 929 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,000 worried. 930 00:54:00,672 --> 00:54:03,414 - Edmund Kemper by this time was very 931 00:54:03,457 --> 00:54:05,459 experienced at what he was doing. 932 00:54:05,503 --> 00:54:08,201 - I thought it was fascinating, you know, with him 933 00:54:08,245 --> 00:54:10,769 was, how do you make them feel comfortable? 934 00:54:10,812 --> 00:54:12,640 What I do, I pull up and look at them 935 00:54:12,684 --> 00:54:14,338 and I wanted myself kinda almost look like 936 00:54:14,381 --> 00:54:17,036 a little businessman but having a place to go, 937 00:54:17,079 --> 00:54:19,256 so I'd look at my watch. 938 00:54:19,299 --> 00:54:21,736 By looking at my watch, it tells them 939 00:54:21,780 --> 00:54:24,173 that I have an appointment. I have someplace 940 00:54:24,217 --> 00:54:27,133 to go to, and that kind of, I believe, 941 00:54:27,176 --> 00:54:29,396 relieved any kind of stress or hesitation 942 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:31,659 that they had getting into the car. 943 00:55:04,388 --> 00:55:06,259 - He says that she's moving around, 944 00:55:06,303 --> 00:55:07,652 trying to cover herself. 945 00:55:07,695 --> 00:55:09,131 She's holding her hands up, 946 00:55:09,175 --> 00:55:11,395 so she gets shot through the hand. 947 00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:48,823 - He's got both victims in the car. 948 00:55:50,259 --> 00:55:53,306 He has a dead girl in the front 949 00:55:53,350 --> 00:55:57,266 and a girl that is not dead but moaning in the back. 950 00:56:00,748 --> 00:56:02,620 He said the two policemen, they were checking 951 00:56:02,663 --> 00:56:04,796 all of the cars going through. 952 00:56:04,839 --> 00:56:07,189 - When I drove up to the two officers 953 00:56:07,233 --> 00:56:09,104 and stopped, I mean, they got very industrious 954 00:56:09,148 --> 00:56:11,150 about looking at me, 955 00:56:11,193 --> 00:56:15,502 and I used that opportunity to glare at them 956 00:56:15,546 --> 00:56:18,636 with that fascist look, like, "Oh, you fascist pigs. 957 00:56:18,679 --> 00:56:20,289 You'd like to shoot me, wouldn't you?" 958 00:56:20,333 --> 00:56:21,682 I had sort of a bored, annoyed, 959 00:56:21,726 --> 00:56:23,336 tired, end of the day, 960 00:56:23,380 --> 00:56:25,294 "I don't need you guys right now" look 961 00:56:25,338 --> 00:56:27,732 and they backed off at that point. 962 00:56:27,775 --> 00:56:28,863 - He gets away with it. 963 00:57:02,767 --> 00:57:04,682 - He went into detail in saying 964 00:57:04,725 --> 00:57:07,032 how he dismembered them 965 00:57:07,075 --> 00:57:09,817 and how one of them had more fat on her body 966 00:57:09,861 --> 00:57:11,950 than the rest of them did, and he said he learned 967 00:57:11,993 --> 00:57:15,301 about cutting through fat of a human body, 968 00:57:15,344 --> 00:57:17,825 and it just turned my stomach. 969 00:57:55,515 --> 00:57:59,867 - When they found her body parts, uh, 970 00:57:59,911 --> 00:58:02,391 it was shocking. 971 00:58:02,435 --> 00:58:06,221 The students kept coming into my office to talk about it. 972 00:58:06,265 --> 00:58:10,704 We knew that something needed to be done to 973 00:58:10,748 --> 00:58:13,925 address the students and engage them 974 00:58:13,968 --> 00:58:15,753 in expressing their feelings 975 00:58:15,796 --> 00:58:18,103 and dealing with grief and mourning, 976 00:58:18,146 --> 00:58:21,106 so they decided to hold this big event, 977 00:58:21,149 --> 00:58:24,065 and about 1,000 students and faculty showed up. 978 00:58:24,109 --> 00:58:27,242 - There was a memorial service for two of the victims. 979 00:58:27,286 --> 00:58:28,940 - Yes. 980 00:58:28,983 --> 00:58:31,116 - Were you tempted to go? - Yes. 981 00:58:32,204 --> 00:58:34,162 I had seen one too many episodes 982 00:58:34,206 --> 00:58:36,077 of one too many crime shows 983 00:58:36,121 --> 00:58:39,037 where that is one of the available resources for clues, 984 00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,126 tracking down the attenders. Take--one man 985 00:58:41,169 --> 00:58:43,128 taking pictures of the people there 986 00:58:43,171 --> 00:58:46,087 to eliminate as potential suspects. 987 00:58:46,131 --> 00:58:48,089 - He's forensically aware, 988 00:58:48,133 --> 00:58:51,310 he has a good knowledge base of criminal investigation, 989 00:58:51,353 --> 00:58:54,008 and he's trying his best to elude law enforcement. 990 00:58:58,926 --> 00:59:01,146 - She says, "You're nothing, you'll never amount 991 00:59:01,189 --> 00:59:04,018 to anything, and you're just like your father." 992 00:59:04,062 --> 00:59:05,280 It's like boiling water, 993 00:59:05,324 --> 00:59:07,108 and he can only take so much of this, 994 00:59:07,152 --> 00:59:10,547 and it's going to, you know, overflow, and that was it. 995 00:59:18,032 --> 00:59:21,340 It was springtime. It was April. 996 00:59:23,168 --> 00:59:25,300 And for two months I hadn't killed, and I said, 997 00:59:25,344 --> 00:59:28,608 "It's not going to happen to any more girls. 998 00:59:28,652 --> 00:59:30,567 It's got to stay between me and my mother." 999 00:59:33,265 --> 00:59:37,182 I said, "She's got to die, or more girls are gonna die," 1000 00:59:37,225 --> 00:59:39,880 and that's when I decided I'm going to murder my mother. 1001 00:59:42,666 --> 00:59:46,495 I knew a week before she died I was gonna kill her. 1002 00:59:46,539 --> 00:59:48,541 And she went out to a party. She got soused. 1003 00:59:48,585 --> 00:59:52,197 She came home, went to sleep. I was woken up by that. 1004 00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:56,070 I got--came out. I walked up to her bed. 1005 00:59:56,114 --> 00:59:58,420 She's laying there, reading a paperback. 1006 00:59:59,552 --> 01:00:01,510 - She says, in a real sarcastic way, 1007 01:00:01,554 --> 01:00:03,556 "Oh, you're probably gonna want to talk now, huh? 1008 01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:05,384 You're gonna want to talk." 1009 01:00:09,693 --> 01:00:13,000 - Sh--. I looked at her. I said, "No." 1010 01:00:13,044 --> 01:00:15,046 I said, "Good night." 1011 01:00:19,180 --> 01:00:21,269 And I knew I was gonna kill her. 1012 01:00:31,323 --> 01:00:34,195 - He said that he had gone into her room 1013 01:00:34,239 --> 01:00:37,155 early in the morning, like, 4:00, 5:00 in the morning. 1014 01:00:44,075 --> 01:00:46,555 - He killed her when she was sound asleep. 1015 01:00:46,599 --> 01:00:49,167 He beat her to death with a claw hammer. 1016 01:00:51,082 --> 01:00:54,172 - Sadism is the infliction of pain on someone else, 1017 01:00:54,215 --> 01:00:57,305 but more basic than inflicting pain 1018 01:00:57,349 --> 01:01:00,178 is the sadist having total control 1019 01:01:00,221 --> 01:01:03,050 and domination over someone else, 1020 01:01:03,094 --> 01:01:07,228 where inflicting pain is one way the sadist assures himself 1021 01:01:07,272 --> 01:01:10,710 that he is in fact in control of her life and death. 1022 01:01:10,754 --> 01:01:13,278 Killing his mother was very, very different, 1023 01:01:13,321 --> 01:01:15,280 up close and personal. 1024 01:01:15,323 --> 01:01:18,065 - He's not finished yet. He then takes the mother 1025 01:01:18,109 --> 01:01:20,111 and drags her over into the kitchen. 1026 01:01:21,982 --> 01:01:27,509 - I cut off her head, and I humiliated her corpse. 1027 01:01:28,772 --> 01:01:31,600 - He put it on the mantel. He threw darts at it. 1028 01:01:31,644 --> 01:01:33,951 - And he spends over an hour 1029 01:01:33,994 --> 01:01:36,214 chewing her out and yelling at her. 1030 01:01:38,303 --> 01:01:40,000 - It hurts. 1031 01:01:41,219 --> 01:01:43,612 'Cause I'm not a lizard. I'm not from under a rock. 1032 01:01:43,656 --> 01:01:45,963 I came out of her vagina. 1033 01:01:46,006 --> 01:01:48,313 I came out of my mother, 1034 01:01:48,356 --> 01:01:50,707 and in a rage, I went right back in. 1035 01:01:52,970 --> 01:01:56,103 - He hated her. He wanted to defile her 1036 01:01:56,147 --> 01:01:59,106 in any possible way that he could, and he did it. 1037 01:01:59,150 --> 01:02:01,065 - He does penetrate her head. 1038 01:02:01,108 --> 01:02:03,154 - Having sex with his mother's head, 1039 01:02:03,197 --> 01:02:05,286 I don't know what it says psychologically 1040 01:02:05,330 --> 01:02:09,116 because it's unstudied. All we can do is speculate, 1041 01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:11,684 and I think the behavior speaks for itself. 1042 01:02:14,818 --> 01:02:16,471 - It's not done. 1043 01:02:17,690 --> 01:02:19,257 He decided to cut out her tongue 1044 01:02:19,300 --> 01:02:22,129 and rip out her larynx 'cause she's such a nag. 1045 01:02:22,173 --> 01:02:24,349 He then throws it down the garbage disposal. 1046 01:02:25,263 --> 01:02:27,047 - He describes throwing the larynx 1047 01:02:27,091 --> 01:02:29,354 into the garbage disposal, popping out. 1048 01:02:29,397 --> 01:02:31,530 Him catching it, throwing back it 1049 01:02:31,573 --> 01:02:33,967 in the garbage disposal, popping out again. 1050 01:02:34,011 --> 01:02:36,230 - And he says, "Even now. Even now, you bitch. 1051 01:02:36,274 --> 01:02:40,452 "Even now, after this, you're still nagging me. 1052 01:02:40,495 --> 01:02:43,020 I hate you. You're still, you know, nagging me." 1053 01:02:45,674 --> 01:02:48,068 - She just ridiculed him his whole life, 1054 01:02:48,112 --> 01:02:51,158 and symbolically he just wanted to take her voice box out 1055 01:02:51,202 --> 01:02:54,161 and throw it in the garbage where he thought it belonged. 1056 01:02:55,206 --> 01:02:58,339 - Clearly he was trying to kill his mother's voice, 1057 01:02:58,383 --> 01:03:00,733 even though she was dead. 1058 01:03:00,777 --> 01:03:04,606 - So there, you know. 1059 01:03:04,650 --> 01:03:08,523 Six young women dead because of the way she raises her son 1060 01:03:08,567 --> 01:03:10,395 and the way her son is raised, 1061 01:03:10,438 --> 01:03:14,355 the way he grows up, and what's her closing words? 1062 01:03:14,399 --> 01:03:18,098 "I suppose you want to sit up all night and talk." 1063 01:03:18,142 --> 01:03:19,796 God, I wish I had. 1064 01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:29,196 I was suicidal, very disturbed, 1065 01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,198 grasping out at someone 'cause I was tired 1066 01:03:31,242 --> 01:03:33,331 of people walking away from me. 1067 01:03:33,374 --> 01:03:35,420 - We studied him. We know all about him. 1068 01:03:35,463 --> 01:03:38,205 We know your motivation. We know what makes you tick. 1069 01:03:38,249 --> 01:03:41,687 Now we can profile other serial offenders. 1070 01:03:59,444 --> 01:04:00,967 - I still loved my mother, 1071 01:04:01,011 --> 01:04:02,447 and it's hard for somebody to comprehend 1072 01:04:02,490 --> 01:04:04,710 that you murdered your mother through love. 1073 01:04:04,753 --> 01:04:07,887 It isn't a rational process. It's a very painful process. 1074 01:04:07,931 --> 01:04:11,760 It isn't rational, and I've got to still live with that. 1075 01:04:12,370 --> 01:04:14,285 - He decided that he needed a reason 1076 01:04:14,328 --> 01:04:16,853 that nobody would be looking for his mother, 1077 01:04:16,896 --> 01:04:19,333 so he chose her best friend, 1078 01:04:19,377 --> 01:04:23,076 and he said that if he were to dispose of her best friend, 1079 01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:26,340 then people would not be inquiring as to where they are 1080 01:04:26,384 --> 01:04:29,169 because they have a tendency to go away for the weekend, 1081 01:04:29,213 --> 01:04:31,084 so he had called Mrs. Hallett. 1082 01:04:31,128 --> 01:04:32,956 - He invited her to dinner, said he was gonna take 1083 01:04:32,999 --> 01:04:34,392 both women out to dinner. 1084 01:04:34,435 --> 01:04:36,394 - So she thought that was just fine, 1085 01:04:36,437 --> 01:04:38,352 so she went over to the house that night. 1086 01:04:42,139 --> 01:04:44,054 - She comes over. 1087 01:04:44,097 --> 01:04:46,273 Punches her once in the abdomen. 1088 01:04:48,188 --> 01:04:50,190 And then he demonstrates, 'cause he's so big, 1089 01:04:50,234 --> 01:04:52,714 how he's able to get neck in the crook of the arm. 1090 01:04:54,064 --> 01:04:55,935 And just to put on pressure 1091 01:04:55,979 --> 01:04:58,372 and where he hears cracking in her neck. 1092 01:05:01,810 --> 01:05:04,857 - He told me that as he was choking Mrs. Hallett, 1093 01:05:04,901 --> 01:05:06,903 he actually had an orgasm. 1094 01:05:12,125 --> 01:05:14,127 - He spends the night with her in bed 1095 01:05:14,171 --> 01:05:17,217 and attempts sex acts with the mother's friend. 1096 01:05:17,261 --> 01:05:20,481 The mother is still over in another part of the bedroom. 1097 01:05:26,313 --> 01:05:28,185 - Kemper had freaked out, 1098 01:05:28,228 --> 01:05:30,927 had loaded an arsenal of guns into his car, 1099 01:05:30,970 --> 01:05:32,929 and then he got the hell out of town. 1100 01:05:35,235 --> 01:05:38,064 - He was hoping for his gigantic man face 1101 01:05:38,108 --> 01:05:40,066 to be all over the news, 1102 01:05:40,110 --> 01:05:42,982 and he's driving for three days. 1103 01:05:43,026 --> 01:05:46,551 He covers 1,500 miles, popping NoDoz, NoDoz. 1104 01:05:47,334 --> 01:05:49,249 Turning on the radio, hoping to hear 1105 01:05:49,293 --> 01:05:51,469 there's this serial killer. 1106 01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:56,343 - But what happened is, nobody came after him. 1107 01:05:56,387 --> 01:05:58,258 - He got as far as Pueblo, Colorado. 1108 01:06:05,004 --> 01:06:08,007 - One morning, at about 5:00 in the morning, 1109 01:06:08,051 --> 01:06:11,532 Edmund Kemper calls the Santa Cruz Police Department. 1110 01:06:11,576 --> 01:06:13,970 - And he talks to the dispatcher 1111 01:06:14,013 --> 01:06:16,450 and says, "You know, I'm the guy that you're looking for," 1112 01:06:16,494 --> 01:06:18,235 and the dispatcher hangs up on him. 1113 01:06:18,278 --> 01:06:20,324 - The person on the other end of the line 1114 01:06:20,367 --> 01:06:22,326 didn't believe him and didn't 1115 01:06:22,369 --> 01:06:24,545 want to wake somebody up. 1116 01:06:24,589 --> 01:06:27,418 - So he calls back. 1117 01:06:27,461 --> 01:06:29,376 - Kemper tells them that he killed his mother. 1118 01:06:29,420 --> 01:06:31,813 He is the Co-ed Killer. 1119 01:06:31,857 --> 01:06:34,164 He was the one responsible for these crimes. 1120 01:06:40,997 --> 01:06:42,868 - He told the lieutenant to get a hold of me 1121 01:06:42,911 --> 01:06:44,870 because I knew exactly where he lived. 1122 01:06:44,913 --> 01:06:48,004 We had no idea. Totally amazing. 1123 01:06:48,047 --> 01:06:49,527 - He thought they were on to him. 1124 01:06:50,615 --> 01:06:54,053 The fact is, they had no idea who it was. 1125 01:06:54,097 --> 01:06:56,012 It was a shock to everybody. 1126 01:06:57,578 --> 01:06:59,058 - They were keeping him on the phone 1127 01:07:00,190 --> 01:07:02,279 until the police came 1128 01:07:03,106 --> 01:07:04,933 and then put him under arrest. 1129 01:07:06,196 --> 01:07:08,328 - Why did you wind up giving yourself up? 1130 01:07:08,372 --> 01:07:10,113 - Once my mother was dead, there was almost 1131 01:07:10,156 --> 01:07:12,115 a cathartic process at that point. 1132 01:07:12,158 --> 01:07:14,247 I got physically ill right then 1133 01:07:14,291 --> 01:07:16,989 when she died, when I murdered her, 1134 01:07:17,033 --> 01:07:20,079 and once she was dead, there was no way I could back out. 1135 01:07:20,123 --> 01:07:23,604 I had backed down from giving up a thousand times. 1136 01:07:23,648 --> 01:07:26,346 - He turned himself in right after he killed his mother 1137 01:07:26,390 --> 01:07:28,392 because he then solved his problem. 1138 01:07:28,435 --> 01:07:30,524 He didn't have to kill symbolically anymore. 1139 01:07:30,568 --> 01:07:32,004 He killed his mother. 1140 01:07:34,224 --> 01:07:37,227 - The root of his problems goes back to mom. 1141 01:07:38,663 --> 01:07:41,318 Killing was a displacement of anger. 1142 01:07:42,406 --> 01:07:45,583 Once she's out, out of the picture, it's over. 1143 01:07:45,626 --> 01:07:49,152 The Santa Cruz police come out and take him back. 1144 01:07:49,195 --> 01:07:51,371 - Kemper is being brought back here to Santa Cruz 1145 01:07:51,415 --> 01:07:53,547 from Pueblo, Colorado, by car, 1146 01:07:53,591 --> 01:07:56,942 a rather unusual method of transportation in such cases, 1147 01:07:56,985 --> 01:07:59,597 a method chosen for security purposes, authorities say. 1148 01:08:05,385 --> 01:08:07,605 - I spent a lot of time with Ed. 1149 01:08:07,648 --> 01:08:09,346 I actually sat in the back seat 1150 01:08:09,389 --> 01:08:11,435 with him for 3 1/2 days. 1151 01:08:12,653 --> 01:08:15,395 And he never stopped talking. 1152 01:08:15,439 --> 01:08:18,964 It got to the point where I would think to myself, 1153 01:08:19,007 --> 01:08:20,444 "God, will you just shut up? 1154 01:08:20,487 --> 01:08:23,099 You know, it's getting to be too much." 1155 01:08:25,362 --> 01:08:27,190 If we had to make a stop to get some gas, 1156 01:08:27,233 --> 01:08:29,453 use the restroom or whatever... 1157 01:08:29,496 --> 01:08:31,498 He was wearing this leather jacket 1158 01:08:31,542 --> 01:08:34,066 with all of the frills hanging off them. 1159 01:08:34,110 --> 01:08:35,981 He had his hands chained to him, 1160 01:08:36,024 --> 01:08:37,722 and he would get out of the car and just kind of 1161 01:08:37,765 --> 01:08:39,419 strut around, so everybody could see him, 1162 01:08:39,463 --> 01:08:41,291 'cause everywhere we went, it drew a crowd. 1163 01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:45,469 He loved the notoriety. 1164 01:08:48,428 --> 01:08:50,561 When we finally got back to Santa Cruz... 1165 01:08:51,692 --> 01:08:53,390 he wanted to know if there was a lot of press 1166 01:08:53,433 --> 01:08:55,131 in front of the building, which there was, 1167 01:08:55,174 --> 01:08:57,568 obviously, but we had gone around the back 1168 01:08:57,611 --> 01:08:59,657 and took him upstairs and booked him. 1169 01:09:18,371 --> 01:09:22,158 - The interesting thing about his whole booking process is, 1170 01:09:22,201 --> 01:09:25,596 there's a sheet, and it has all of his information, 1171 01:09:25,639 --> 01:09:27,598 what he's charged with and everything. 1172 01:09:29,382 --> 01:09:31,732 And when it gets down to the section of who to notify 1173 01:09:31,776 --> 01:09:35,127 in case of emergency, he turned to me, and he says, 1174 01:09:35,171 --> 01:09:37,434 "I don't have anybody left. Can I put you down?" 1175 01:09:39,218 --> 01:09:41,786 So that's why my name is on his booking sheet. 1176 01:09:44,484 --> 01:09:46,182 - Kemper was arraigned this afternoon 1177 01:09:46,225 --> 01:09:47,661 on charges of killing six young women, 1178 01:09:47,705 --> 01:09:49,576 his mother, and a friend of hers. 1179 01:09:49,620 --> 01:09:52,449 - By the time he got to Santa Cruz, 1180 01:09:52,492 --> 01:09:56,366 the newspapers were full of some of the details. 1181 01:09:56,409 --> 01:09:58,585 I--I was horrified. 1182 01:09:58,629 --> 01:10:02,198 This sleepy little town along the coastline just 1183 01:10:02,241 --> 01:10:04,678 never really recovered. 1184 01:10:15,428 --> 01:10:18,214 - I'll tell you a little bit about my interaction 1185 01:10:18,257 --> 01:10:22,087 with Eddie, with Ed Kemper. 1186 01:10:22,130 --> 01:10:24,568 One day I had a really stiff neck. 1187 01:10:24,611 --> 01:10:27,266 I couldn't move my head hardly at all. 1188 01:10:28,093 --> 01:10:30,269 He said, "I know a lot about anatomy. 1189 01:10:30,313 --> 01:10:32,315 I can make your neck feel better." 1190 01:10:33,229 --> 01:10:35,405 So I went around, 1191 01:10:35,448 --> 01:10:37,842 and he worked on my neck for maybe, I don't know, 1192 01:10:37,885 --> 01:10:42,238 five minutes, and, you know, it worked. 1193 01:10:45,763 --> 01:10:49,288 Thinking about it, here's this huge man 1194 01:10:49,332 --> 01:10:53,379 who could've probably killed me with one hand, 1195 01:10:53,423 --> 01:10:58,428 and I never, ever felt unsafe in his presence. 1196 01:10:58,471 --> 01:11:01,213 I felt that if somebody had've attacked me, 1197 01:11:01,257 --> 01:11:03,259 he would've come to my aid. 1198 01:11:04,347 --> 01:11:06,349 I spent a lot of time with him. 1199 01:11:06,392 --> 01:11:07,785 We were friendly. 1200 01:11:09,352 --> 01:11:13,094 - The ability of Ed Kemper to be able to 1201 01:11:13,138 --> 01:11:15,619 be very charming was really remarkable. 1202 01:11:15,662 --> 01:11:19,492 That's how clever or manipulative he is. 1203 01:11:19,536 --> 01:11:23,148 - He was a model prisoner, and he was a nice guy. 1204 01:11:23,191 --> 01:11:25,672 He wasn't crazy. He wasn't, uh, 1205 01:11:25,716 --> 01:11:28,109 he wasn't particularly violent. 1206 01:11:28,153 --> 01:11:31,461 He would joke with the jailers. The jailers liked him. 1207 01:11:33,854 --> 01:11:37,336 - He was this big, overgrown kid 1208 01:11:37,380 --> 01:11:41,471 that was very friendly, very cooperative, 1209 01:11:41,514 --> 01:11:43,299 loved the police... 1210 01:11:44,343 --> 01:11:48,347 and would tell you anything you wanted to know. 1211 01:11:54,440 --> 01:11:56,399 - He took us to these various places 1212 01:11:56,442 --> 01:11:58,705 throughout the mountains in Santa Cruz County. 1213 01:11:58,749 --> 01:12:00,707 - Where he showed them all the places 1214 01:12:00,751 --> 01:12:02,492 he dropped off body parts. 1215 01:12:10,848 --> 01:12:12,502 - We were missing some body parts, 1216 01:12:12,545 --> 01:12:14,373 and those were important for the families, 1217 01:12:14,417 --> 01:12:16,636 so what we would do is, we would drive him 1218 01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:17,942 to those locations, and he would 1219 01:12:17,985 --> 01:12:19,596 point it out to us 1220 01:12:19,639 --> 01:12:22,338 just very matter-of-factly. 1221 01:12:22,381 --> 01:12:24,775 There's so-and-so. There's so-and-so. 1222 01:12:26,342 --> 01:12:30,433 One of his victims, he had actually skinned the skull 1223 01:12:30,476 --> 01:12:32,739 and put it underground. 1224 01:12:34,872 --> 01:12:37,788 - The day they dug up Cindy Schall's head 1225 01:12:37,831 --> 01:12:40,356 was a day I'll never forget. 1226 01:12:40,399 --> 01:12:43,620 The thing I remember about it is them lifting this 1227 01:12:43,663 --> 01:12:47,188 rotted head up out of the ground 1228 01:12:47,232 --> 01:12:48,842 and the reality of it all of a sudden 1229 01:12:48,886 --> 01:12:51,323 became all too true, but what the worst part was, 1230 01:12:51,367 --> 01:12:52,672 was the smell. 1231 01:12:52,716 --> 01:12:57,460 The smell just stuck with me. 1232 01:13:15,086 --> 01:13:17,871 - And so when he finally had to go to trial, 1233 01:13:17,915 --> 01:13:20,047 his defense will be the insanity defense. 1234 01:13:20,091 --> 01:13:23,311 - When a person admits to everything they've done 1235 01:13:23,355 --> 01:13:25,444 to everybody who'll listen, 1236 01:13:25,488 --> 01:13:29,274 you know, the only possible defense 1237 01:13:29,317 --> 01:13:33,104 we had was not guilty by reason of insanity. 1238 01:13:33,147 --> 01:13:36,455 - What a lawyer hopes for in a case like Kemper 1239 01:13:36,499 --> 01:13:38,370 is that the jury will look at this and say, 1240 01:13:38,414 --> 01:13:42,069 "This is so ridiculous. This is just so bizarre. 1241 01:13:42,113 --> 01:13:44,942 He has to be completely out of his mind." 1242 01:13:44,985 --> 01:13:47,292 It has to be to such an extent 1243 01:13:47,335 --> 01:13:49,381 that you didn't know the nature and quality 1244 01:13:49,425 --> 01:13:51,209 of your acts, you didn't know what you were doing. 1245 01:13:51,252 --> 01:13:52,993 Well, that wouldn't apply in Kemper's case. 1246 01:13:53,037 --> 01:13:54,908 He knew exactly what he was doing. 1247 01:13:54,952 --> 01:13:57,824 - He felt the need to take the stand 1248 01:13:57,868 --> 01:14:01,219 to show everyone how crazy he really was. 1249 01:14:01,262 --> 01:14:03,177 He went through all the graphics 1250 01:14:03,221 --> 01:14:04,962 of how he did the killings. 1251 01:14:06,006 --> 01:14:08,182 - And when he was testifying... 1252 01:14:09,836 --> 01:14:12,491 you found yourself 1253 01:14:12,535 --> 01:14:14,798 wrapped up in his words. 1254 01:14:14,841 --> 01:14:17,453 He wanted you to feel sorry for him, 1255 01:14:17,496 --> 01:14:20,499 and he was describing what he had done to these young girls. 1256 01:14:20,543 --> 01:14:23,894 I looked over my shoulder, and I saw the father 1257 01:14:23,937 --> 01:14:26,505 of one of the victims, 1258 01:14:26,549 --> 01:14:30,117 and the look on his face 1259 01:14:30,161 --> 01:14:32,076 was so affecting 1260 01:14:32,119 --> 01:14:34,252 that I started crying in court, 1261 01:14:34,295 --> 01:14:37,081 and I couldn't stop crying. 1262 01:14:40,127 --> 01:14:42,826 He was convicted and sentenced to life. 1263 01:14:57,231 --> 01:14:58,842 - The things I learned from Kemper 1264 01:14:58,885 --> 01:15:00,583 we apply to other cases. 1265 01:15:00,626 --> 01:15:03,194 He taught us how we should link these cases together, 1266 01:15:03,237 --> 01:15:05,109 how to classify different crimes, 1267 01:15:05,152 --> 01:15:07,198 and how to profile for a serial killer. 1268 01:15:07,241 --> 01:15:09,243 They bring him in, and we stand up to greet him, 1269 01:15:09,287 --> 01:15:12,159 and my goodness, the guy is--he's mammoth. 1270 01:15:12,203 --> 01:15:14,074 He just towers over us. 1271 01:15:14,118 --> 01:15:15,946 Before I even start talking to him, I told him, 1272 01:15:15,989 --> 01:15:18,383 "You're a big case back at the FBI academy. 1273 01:15:18,426 --> 01:15:20,385 "Everyone wants to learn from you. 1274 01:15:20,428 --> 01:15:24,084 We want to take your knowledge and apply it to ongoing cases." 1275 01:15:25,259 --> 01:15:27,610 So I made him feel like he is my professor. 1276 01:15:27,653 --> 01:15:28,872 Teach me. 1277 01:15:32,092 --> 01:15:35,400 - Bob Ressler and John Douglas were top drawer, absolutely. 1278 01:15:35,443 --> 01:15:37,576 They were very dedicated. 1279 01:15:37,620 --> 01:15:41,493 They were excellent in terms of getting information. 1280 01:15:41,537 --> 01:15:43,451 They were expert interviewers. 1281 01:15:49,327 --> 01:15:51,634 - I want to know why, Ed. I want to know what 1282 01:15:51,677 --> 01:15:54,985 transformed you into participating and precipitating 1283 01:15:55,028 --> 01:15:56,943 these particular crimes. 1284 01:15:59,076 --> 01:16:01,948 - Ed Kemper was very helpful because he was so articulate, 1285 01:16:01,992 --> 01:16:05,169 and he really gave important information 1286 01:16:05,212 --> 01:16:09,477 that we were able to use for the basis for profiling. 1287 01:16:10,348 --> 01:16:12,611 - He's an insightful guy. He knows the criminal mind, 1288 01:16:12,655 --> 01:16:14,265 obviously, on some level 1289 01:16:14,308 --> 01:16:16,310 because he knows himself awfully well. 1290 01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:39,638 - These guys, they go off in a trance like that, 1291 01:16:39,682 --> 01:16:42,467 and then they're back there, and they start 1292 01:16:42,510 --> 01:16:45,122 providing specifics that-- 1293 01:16:45,165 --> 01:16:48,038 I mean, I can't remember what things I did yesterday, 1294 01:16:48,081 --> 01:16:51,519 and they're remembering all these specifics of the crimes 1295 01:16:51,563 --> 01:16:55,175 and the colors of the victim's clothing and their hair 1296 01:16:55,219 --> 01:16:56,960 and maybe a pendant they were wearing, 1297 01:16:57,003 --> 01:16:59,527 so that was one of the things that happened 1298 01:16:59,571 --> 01:17:01,573 during the interview with Kemper. 1299 01:17:01,617 --> 01:17:04,184 That's the whole thing when you do a profiling and analysis. 1300 01:17:04,228 --> 01:17:07,274 You can't think like me. I got to think like them. 1301 01:17:08,232 --> 01:17:09,625 - You want to get the information, 1302 01:17:09,668 --> 01:17:11,278 so that maybe you can prevent 1303 01:17:11,322 --> 01:17:13,019 somebody from getting hurt in the future. 1304 01:17:27,817 --> 01:17:30,210 - After the first interviews, 1305 01:17:30,254 --> 01:17:31,690 we realized that if we're going to have 1306 01:17:31,734 --> 01:17:35,128 a good mythological handle on this, 1307 01:17:35,172 --> 01:17:39,176 we had to have a survey questionnaire 1308 01:17:39,219 --> 01:17:41,178 that they all ask the same questions 1309 01:17:41,221 --> 01:17:43,267 to other killers. 1310 01:17:43,310 --> 01:17:47,271 We came up with a 57-page color-coded survey, 1311 01:17:47,314 --> 01:17:50,448 and we had 36 killers in the study. 1312 01:17:50,491 --> 01:17:52,363 - And we came up with very, very good predictors. 1313 01:17:52,406 --> 01:17:54,670 It's a thing known as the homicidal triangle. 1314 01:17:55,845 --> 01:17:57,455 That is bed-wetting 1315 01:17:57,498 --> 01:17:58,717 into the teens, 1316 01:17:58,761 --> 01:17:59,762 fire setting, 1317 01:17:59,805 --> 01:18:01,024 but the big one 1318 01:18:01,067 --> 01:18:03,548 is animal cruelty. 1319 01:18:03,591 --> 01:18:06,551 I've talked to SPCAs about that, 1320 01:18:06,594 --> 01:18:09,249 and now the FBI even has that today. 1321 01:18:09,293 --> 01:18:11,077 Animal cruelty, they track that, 1322 01:18:11,121 --> 01:18:12,731 where we never tracked that before, 1323 01:18:12,775 --> 01:18:15,821 because we know that's a predictor of future violence. 1324 01:18:15,865 --> 01:18:18,563 - The FBI back in the late 1970s, 1325 01:18:18,606 --> 01:18:20,783 including John Douglas and Robert Ressler, 1326 01:18:20,826 --> 01:18:23,046 made major contributions 1327 01:18:23,089 --> 01:18:26,789 in applying the knowledge base of sexual murder, 1328 01:18:26,832 --> 01:18:29,269 particularly to investigations. 1329 01:18:31,794 --> 01:18:35,493 - We came up with the term serial murderer. 1330 01:18:35,536 --> 01:18:37,495 A serial murderer is three or more people 1331 01:18:37,538 --> 01:18:38,757 with a cooling off period 1332 01:18:38,801 --> 01:18:40,454 in between each of the killings. 1333 01:18:41,368 --> 01:18:43,631 A mass murderer is someone who kills 1334 01:18:43,675 --> 01:18:46,417 four or more people in one event. 1335 01:18:46,460 --> 01:18:48,332 A spree murderer, 1336 01:18:48,375 --> 01:18:49,812 it's a form of a serial killer, 1337 01:18:49,855 --> 01:18:52,162 but there is no cooling off period. 1338 01:18:52,205 --> 01:18:56,296 - Today you can't find a person in the United States 1339 01:18:56,340 --> 01:18:58,603 who doesn't know what a serial killer is. 1340 01:18:58,646 --> 01:19:02,259 You hear it all the time, and you really have to credit 1341 01:19:02,302 --> 01:19:05,610 John Douglas and Ressler for popularizing that 1342 01:19:05,653 --> 01:19:07,612 and making it part of the consciousness 1343 01:19:07,655 --> 01:19:10,441 in the culture of the United States. 1344 01:19:10,484 --> 01:19:12,399 - Then we came up with descriptions 1345 01:19:12,443 --> 01:19:15,315 regarding the different types of offenders 1346 01:19:15,359 --> 01:19:17,448 when we classify a case, 1347 01:19:17,491 --> 01:19:19,145 and we came up with major categories 1348 01:19:19,189 --> 01:19:22,366 of criminal enterprise, group cause, 1349 01:19:22,409 --> 01:19:25,761 sexual homicide, and personal cause. 1350 01:19:25,804 --> 01:19:27,763 When we look at a case, we try to put them 1351 01:19:27,806 --> 01:19:29,590 in one of these four categories. 1352 01:19:30,809 --> 01:19:33,507 Then as far as describing the crime scenes, 1353 01:19:33,551 --> 01:19:35,379 when we look at a case like Kemper, 1354 01:19:35,422 --> 01:19:38,121 Kemper, it's obvious it's very, very organized. 1355 01:19:38,164 --> 01:19:39,513 There's planning involved. 1356 01:19:40,688 --> 01:19:42,734 - The profiling cases would come in, 1357 01:19:42,778 --> 01:19:46,303 and they would say, "Is this like Kemper?" 1358 01:19:46,346 --> 01:19:48,392 They would be able to actually--is he organized? 1359 01:19:48,435 --> 01:19:50,829 Does he plan? Is there something new or different? 1360 01:19:50,873 --> 01:19:54,615 So they bounced off of these new cases, 1361 01:19:54,659 --> 01:19:58,315 unsolved cases, and were able to say, 1362 01:19:58,358 --> 01:20:00,360 "Why don't you look for a suspect 1363 01:20:00,404 --> 01:20:03,363 that has A, B, C, D, these factors." 1364 01:20:04,451 --> 01:20:06,714 - Look, for example, at the case of Ted Bundy. 1365 01:20:06,758 --> 01:20:09,848 The connection between somebody like Kemper and Ted Bundy 1366 01:20:09,892 --> 01:20:13,156 is that the reason they're killing is sexual. 1367 01:20:13,199 --> 01:20:16,202 It's an abnormal sexual arousal pattern. 1368 01:20:17,247 --> 01:20:19,466 - I found it with Kemper, and I found it with the likes 1369 01:20:19,510 --> 01:20:21,555 of Dennis Rader, the BTK Strangler, 1370 01:20:21,599 --> 01:20:23,644 Jeffrey Dahmer, David Berkowitz, 1371 01:20:23,688 --> 01:20:26,343 the Son of Sam. There was no empathy. 1372 01:20:26,386 --> 01:20:30,260 There was never any remorse for the crimes at all. 1373 01:20:30,303 --> 01:20:32,262 The only time we touched on the mother. 1374 01:20:32,305 --> 01:20:33,567 It seemed to be always a mother thing 1375 01:20:33,611 --> 01:20:35,569 with these guys, always a mother thing. 1376 01:20:38,746 --> 01:20:42,446 - Your grandmother and her daughter-in-law, your mother, 1377 01:20:42,489 --> 01:20:45,884 were two women very important in your life, 1378 01:20:45,928 --> 01:20:47,886 and you killed them both. 1379 01:20:47,930 --> 01:20:50,889 Could you say what they were like 1380 01:20:50,933 --> 01:20:54,632 that led them to the same fate? 1381 01:20:54,675 --> 01:20:56,982 - The same thing that kept them from ever being friends. 1382 01:20:57,026 --> 01:20:59,550 They were both aggressive, 1383 01:20:59,593 --> 01:21:00,986 um, 1384 01:21:01,030 --> 01:21:02,596 matriarchal women. 1385 01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:04,294 They'd been the daughters 1386 01:21:04,337 --> 01:21:05,861 of strong, matriarchal women. 1387 01:21:09,952 --> 01:21:12,345 - They love the mother. They want the mother's love. 1388 01:21:12,389 --> 01:21:15,261 But at the same time, you know, they hate the mother. 1389 01:21:15,305 --> 01:21:17,437 They hate her, so then when you get them to talk, 1390 01:21:17,481 --> 01:21:19,309 you get them to talk, and you reach that point 1391 01:21:19,352 --> 01:21:21,006 about mothers, 1392 01:21:21,050 --> 01:21:23,922 and you got them back at that crime. 1393 01:21:23,966 --> 01:21:26,229 That's when you'll see them, you know, breaking down. 1394 01:21:26,272 --> 01:21:28,013 Some of the most hardened criminals 1395 01:21:28,057 --> 01:21:30,798 I've talked to, it happened to them. 1396 01:21:32,626 --> 01:21:36,456 Gary Heidnik in Philadelphia, who kept women in a pit 1397 01:21:36,500 --> 01:21:38,676 and I interviewed him with another agent, 1398 01:21:38,719 --> 01:21:41,418 and when I got to the mother, you know, 1399 01:21:41,461 --> 01:21:44,682 he just ripped off the mic and just, you know--you know, 1400 01:21:44,725 --> 01:21:46,945 he just broke down. He loved the mother, 1401 01:21:46,989 --> 01:21:49,817 but he hated her at the same time 1402 01:21:49,861 --> 01:21:53,473 and projected his problems on his mother, like Kemper. 1403 01:21:54,518 --> 01:21:56,433 - There's no question that he hated his mother, 1404 01:21:56,476 --> 01:21:59,436 but that's not why he went out killing women. 1405 01:22:00,045 --> 01:22:02,439 Thousands of people have horrible relationships 1406 01:22:02,482 --> 01:22:03,831 with their mothers. 1407 01:22:03,875 --> 01:22:06,008 Thousands and thousands of people 1408 01:22:06,051 --> 01:22:10,926 grow up in horrific conditions where one parent or another 1409 01:22:10,969 --> 01:22:14,407 not only belittles or humiliates the person 1410 01:22:14,451 --> 01:22:17,541 but abuses the person and burns the person, 1411 01:22:17,584 --> 01:22:19,543 but they're not going around killing people 1412 01:22:19,586 --> 01:22:21,849 because they're symbolically killing their mother. 1413 01:22:21,893 --> 01:22:23,547 I just don't believe that. 1414 01:22:23,590 --> 01:22:26,028 If Kemper explains why he did what he did, 1415 01:22:26,071 --> 01:22:27,855 you should take it at face value. 1416 01:22:27,899 --> 01:22:30,336 Murderers, in general, lie all the time. 1417 01:22:30,380 --> 01:22:32,860 It was his relationship with his mother that did this. 1418 01:22:32,904 --> 01:22:36,516 He was abused by this person. It may just not be true. 1419 01:22:42,566 --> 01:22:44,133 - Six young women dead. 1420 01:22:44,176 --> 01:22:46,091 There's a lot that leads into that happening, 1421 01:22:46,135 --> 01:22:47,919 but that is what happened. 1422 01:22:47,963 --> 01:22:49,877 They represented not what my mother was 1423 01:22:49,921 --> 01:22:52,315 but what she liked, what she coveted, 1424 01:22:52,358 --> 01:22:55,492 what was important to her, and I was destroying it. 1425 01:22:55,535 --> 01:22:57,973 - People think he's a manipulator 1426 01:22:58,016 --> 01:22:59,583 and a psychopath. 1427 01:22:59,626 --> 01:23:01,150 That's true. 1428 01:23:01,193 --> 01:23:03,152 As far as, like, the mother part, 1429 01:23:03,195 --> 01:23:05,023 where they don't believe that, I disagree with them. 1430 01:23:05,067 --> 01:23:06,546 The mother had a major impact. 1431 01:23:06,590 --> 01:23:08,635 The reason he decided now was the time 1432 01:23:08,679 --> 01:23:11,203 to kill them because of the mother. 1433 01:23:11,247 --> 01:23:14,032 I don't forgive Kemper, but mom is the influence. 1434 01:23:14,076 --> 01:23:15,425 If mom wasn't there, 1435 01:23:15,468 --> 01:23:18,167 he wouldn't have been a serial killer. 1436 01:23:18,210 --> 01:23:20,386 - I was suicidal, 1437 01:23:20,430 --> 01:23:24,434 uh, very disturbed, grasping out at someone. 1438 01:23:24,477 --> 01:23:26,349 I had abducted them, and I wasn't going to 1439 01:23:26,392 --> 01:23:28,177 let them out of the car because I was tired 1440 01:23:28,220 --> 01:23:30,048 of people walking away from me. 1441 01:23:30,092 --> 01:23:32,485 - Ed Kemper's murder of his mother 1442 01:23:32,529 --> 01:23:35,010 is done at the end of his killing career. 1443 01:23:35,053 --> 01:23:38,143 It's important to look at what he does with his victims, 1444 01:23:38,187 --> 01:23:39,492 the co-ed victims. 1445 01:23:40,972 --> 01:23:42,582 - And where it might not be realistic 1446 01:23:42,626 --> 01:23:46,238 to someone who has decided I'm just incarnate evil, 1447 01:23:46,282 --> 01:23:48,893 there's not much else I can say other than I did surrender. 1448 01:23:48,936 --> 01:23:50,590 I did make it stop. 1449 01:23:50,634 --> 01:23:52,418 I didn't kill my mother in a rage. 1450 01:23:52,462 --> 01:23:55,073 I didn't attack her out of some argument. 1451 01:23:55,117 --> 01:23:57,206 I went out of my way to find her and to kill her, 1452 01:23:57,249 --> 01:24:00,992 to make sure that whatever cover I had was blown. 1453 01:24:01,036 --> 01:24:02,994 There was no way I could explain my way out of it. 1454 01:24:03,038 --> 01:24:05,214 I started pursuing ways out of what I was doing 1455 01:24:05,257 --> 01:24:07,651 because it was getting totally out of hand. 1456 01:24:07,694 --> 01:24:09,392 - He said, "I had schoolteachers 1457 01:24:09,435 --> 01:24:11,350 "and counselors talking to me, but he never 1458 01:24:11,394 --> 01:24:13,004 "really talked to me about my feelings 1459 01:24:13,048 --> 01:24:15,006 "and what was going through my mind. 1460 01:24:15,050 --> 01:24:16,529 Had they done that," he said, 1461 01:24:16,573 --> 01:24:18,705 "I would've talked to them about this." 1462 01:24:18,749 --> 01:24:20,577 If a counselor talked to him, he may 1463 01:24:20,620 --> 01:24:23,101 or she may get something out of him. 1464 01:24:23,145 --> 01:24:26,452 - If you'd never given in to the impulse to murder-- 1465 01:24:26,496 --> 01:24:28,106 - Where might I be? 1466 01:24:28,150 --> 01:24:30,587 If my parole had been successful... 1467 01:24:30,630 --> 01:24:32,197 Um, 1468 01:24:32,241 --> 01:24:34,634 I believe I'd be married and have children. 1469 01:24:34,678 --> 01:24:37,463 I'd be heading toward my first grandchildren. 1470 01:24:38,464 --> 01:24:40,423 - This story just never goes away, 1471 01:24:40,466 --> 01:24:42,642 and people are fascinated by it, 1472 01:24:42,686 --> 01:24:44,992 how horrid it all was. 1473 01:24:45,036 --> 01:24:48,126 - When I get back to the motel after doing his interview, 1474 01:24:48,170 --> 01:24:50,433 I had problems. I had problems 1475 01:24:50,476 --> 01:24:53,262 that would then begin to carry over 1476 01:24:53,305 --> 01:24:56,003 where I had flashbacks of those crime scenes. 1477 01:24:58,658 --> 01:25:00,617 - I've been involved in I couldn't tell you 1478 01:25:00,660 --> 01:25:02,967 how many investigations where people have died, 1479 01:25:03,010 --> 01:25:07,058 and this, to me, has no sense whatsoever. 1480 01:25:07,102 --> 01:25:09,626 I still have issues that come up occasionally. 1481 01:25:13,020 --> 01:25:16,328 - It really, really bothers me. It does have an effect on me. 1482 01:25:16,372 --> 01:25:19,723 - If I could change, um, 1483 01:25:19,766 --> 01:25:21,681 things in my life, 1484 01:25:21,725 --> 01:25:26,033 I would definitely not have 1485 01:25:26,077 --> 01:25:29,211 participated in these mass murders. 1486 01:25:29,254 --> 01:25:31,474 I had a wife and two little kids. 1487 01:25:31,517 --> 01:25:33,519 I worked 13 months without a day off. 1488 01:25:33,563 --> 01:25:38,220 Within five years after these trials were completed, 1489 01:25:38,263 --> 01:25:40,135 the district attorney was divorced. 1490 01:25:40,178 --> 01:25:41,440 I was divorced. 1491 01:25:41,484 --> 01:25:42,659 Several of the police officers 1492 01:25:42,702 --> 01:25:44,182 involved were divorced. 1493 01:25:44,226 --> 01:25:45,749 It took a horrible toll 1494 01:25:45,792 --> 01:25:47,272 on us individually 1495 01:25:47,316 --> 01:25:48,752 and on our families. 1496 01:25:48,795 --> 01:25:52,277 You know, it was difficult, a difficult time, 1497 01:25:52,321 --> 01:25:54,584 and it's always a part of you. 1498 01:25:56,499 --> 01:25:58,588 - This was such a hideous evil 1499 01:25:58,631 --> 01:26:01,068 that Kemper perpetrated on these people. 1500 01:26:01,112 --> 01:26:03,506 The lesson of Edmund Kemper is, the human animal 1501 01:26:03,549 --> 01:26:06,030 is capable of just about everything, 1502 01:26:06,073 --> 01:26:08,380 and we can't be surprised by what happens. 1503 01:26:08,424 --> 01:26:11,427 I'm sorry it happened. It was horrible what happened. 1504 01:26:11,470 --> 01:26:14,256 I think of the lives that were not lived 1505 01:26:14,299 --> 01:26:18,651 that--who knows what these victims would've turned into, 1506 01:26:18,695 --> 01:26:21,176 and I think that's the tragedy of it all. 1507 01:26:22,307 --> 01:26:24,657 - If there's somebody out there that is watching this 1508 01:26:24,701 --> 01:26:28,052 and hasn't done that, hasn't killed people 1509 01:26:28,095 --> 01:26:31,534 and wants to and rages inside and struggles for that feeling 1510 01:26:31,577 --> 01:26:34,450 or is so sure they have it under control, 1511 01:26:34,493 --> 01:26:36,582 they need to talk to somebody about it. 1512 01:26:36,626 --> 01:26:39,759 Trust somebody enough to sit down 1513 01:26:39,803 --> 01:26:42,240 and talk about something that isn't a crime. 1514 01:26:42,284 --> 01:26:45,287 Thinking that way isn't a crime. 1515 01:26:45,330 --> 01:26:47,637 Doing it isn't just a crime. 1516 01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:51,380 It's a horrible thing that doesn't know when to quit. 1517 01:26:51,423 --> 01:26:53,599 It can't be stopped easily. 1518 01:26:53,643 --> 01:26:56,602 - For more information, go to Oxygen.com. 119264

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.