All language subtitles for Mal.4

Ladies and gentlemen, you are about to
behold a sight so strange, so

so utterly monstrous, that I urge both
of you who are easily... Hi, this is Ted

Bonnet, the director and producer of
Malmouse XX, and I'm with Eddie Muller,

writer of Malmouse XX.

That was the shot of Dave that started
the picture. It was perfect.

I mean, that is a portrait of the artist
as a young carny.

We're going to sit with you and watch it
and talk a little bit about how we made

the movie and offer a lot more editorial
depth that we were unable to contain in

the movie itself, a little more
background on the movies. A little

background, as it were. Yes, I'm not
that smart.

I wasn't as good as Dave at it, but I
was a businessman.

Dan Sonny was down the street from where
I live, visiting his daughter, who owns

an apartment house down the street. He
found me before I found him. This is

after I met Dave, thanks to Eddie, and
was looking for Dan Sonny, and he just

heard about me before I heard about him.

Lived a block away, one of those
incredible bits of synchronicity there.

see him.

kind of fell an immediate like with him
and realized this would be a real good

story to tell about the story of these
two guys' lives who lived the fastest of

fast lanes in the 60s and the ultimate
square -up, as they call them in their

movies, of what happens when you land in
your 80s.

And it was interesting, too, because
Dave has always been much more the front

man of this outfit and the emperor
emeritus of skin pics and all that kind

stuff, and it was great to be able to
get...

Dan to go along with this because he's
always been the behind the scenes

operator, the money man, kind of the
quiet guy until you get him on camera.

Dan is one of the funniest and coolest
guys considering that he's in his mid

-80s in this movie.

I think we just could all hope to be as
healthy and funny as he is.

And it was a great opportunity because
having known Dave for a while and

what a character he is and what a
raconteur he is, I sensed even before

Dan how much Dave admired the guy and
looked up to him and thought he was the

real... you know, the ace in the deck of
this whole operation.

But, you know, Dan always shied away
from being on camera and in the

And so it was just such a great
opportunity to be able to get the guy in

situation and see what Dave had been
talking about all along.

They wanted to make a policeman out of
him.

He cleaned up that town real fast.

In the headlines that came out, Roy
Gardner, the smiling mail train bandit,

escaped from jail.

And my dad had a picture of him. And my
dad was on his feet walking.

And then another man was walking. You
know, this is really the last of an era

Dan and Dave represent.

And we were very fortunate to be able to
capture their stories.

Yeah, that Dan could become sort of a
mogul in this business considering, you

know, his origins and such an operator
and such a savvy businessman, you know,

as he likes to say, you know, he didn't
have a lot of book schooling.

But out there on the road, he certainly
learned the ins and outs of this

business. And he's lucky.

He's right. He says he's the luckiest
guy in the world. And, you know, I think

he really is one of the luckiest guys in
the world.

And he still counts it. I mean, he still
talks about how he's still $20 ,000 shy

on She -Freak. You know, still needs $20
,000 back from that production. I think

he still studies the books at night
before he goes to bed.

So they've had a lot of interviews, and
a lot of people come to talk to them. We

were very fortunate that they really
consented to do this.

because they didn't know what the heck
we had in mind. Well, that is absolutely

true. I know that Dan, in particular,
couldn't quite figure out what the hell

were doing and how it was all going to
turn out. I think Dave sort of

a lot more.

Dan was really asking me throughout the
shoot, you know, when I was following

around with the camera, saying, you
know, are you sure you're okay in the

Are you sure you're all right? Are you
sure you're not crazy?

Who the hell would want to go see a
movie about an old man?

Now, here's a man who made a fortune
showing young, beautiful, scantily clad

women, so I can understand his logic.

Who's going to pay to see a couple of
old goofs like us?

This whole story with how Lewis Sonny
got his start was pretty remarkable.

You know, the law and order thing.

This was the story that really sold me
on Dan. When I was researching the book,

it was just a remarkable story. This is
kind of how I started the whole thing.

When you talk about the book, you're
talking about Grindhouse. Grindhouse,

the forbidden world of adults -only
cinema, which Dave was such a huge part

the research for that.

And he talked so much about Dan.

But because Dan was so far behind the
scenes and wasn't a guy who sought the

limelight, I didn't really pursue him
that much in doing the research for the

book. And so it was really a treat when
you met him and then we finally hooked

up and all this stuff sort of came to
life.

Which is why I got involved, because
reading your book and then reading

book, The Youth in Babylon, I just
realized this was too great a story to

up, to tell.

And we made it with digital video
technology very early on, which was sort

way.

that they made their films. I mean, sort
of the democratization of film, movie

-making tools like digital video cameras
and Final Cut Pro really allows one to

go back to the old days of going out on
your own as a small businessman and

making a movie, and self -distributing,
too. Yeah, absolutely. That's what we

did with Mouth Mouth Sex Sex. And it
was, you know, a throwback to the way

guys made pictures.

And Dan really just, you know, he
doesn't see...

It's just his reality.

I mean, he almost doesn't even think
that there's anything odd about what he

did.

No, not really. Well, because he had the
advantage of being able to think all

the people he was working with were the
crazy people and the con men, like

here's Maniac, which was actually a
picture made by Dwayne Esper.

that Dan's father, Louis Sonny, put up
some of the money for and distributed.

But this demented vision, it's more
reflective of Dwayne Esper as a

than the Sonny family.

And Esper was a real character. There
was this whole group of filmmakers and

distributors.

called The Forty Thieves, of which Esper
was probably the most legendary.

I mean, this guy, it was just beyond his
capability to tell a coherent story.

But he knew exactly how to pack every
sensational element into everything he

did. And, you know, he and his wife were
quite the team.

You know, any subject, Esper would
manage to get some crazed movie out of

But all the guys in The Forty Thieves.

We're like that. But Esper was probably
king of the road shows.

He knew how to go into a town.

You know, the movie was secondary. He
had the great lobby displays and the

marquees and create a big fuss and then
get out of town before the cops showed

up.

Those scenes with Dave and Dan in the
car.

We had gone down to Alabama and spent a
couple of days with Dave and got our

interview with him, and then we did the
same thing with Dan in the Los Angeles

area where he lives.

So we had what we needed in terms of
meat and potatoes subject matter and

interview.

So Dave comes from Alabama into L .A.
once a year for, you know, an annual

And we timed it out so that when he was
in town, we'd take them for a ride

around the city to their old haunts just
to help them reflect.

But really the importance of the object
of those scenes with the two of them in

the car, which are a pretty big audience
favorite, was just to let them relax

and have some fun to show the chemistry
in which they operated all their lives,

laughing their way to the... bank and uh
and you know that was all done in three

hours because these are old guys who
really don't have a lot of patience or

energy for the camera crews to
constantly contact them yeah we'll we'll

know facing our bladder breaks pretty
soon i'm sure and uh

yeah this is in uh in dave's study down
in alabama he is the king down there

Next time we go to that shot, you'll see
that this is his office in Alabama

where he's running a carny downtown,
which we'll visit the fairgrounds.

You'll see a large wad of cash to the
right on the frame in his office. I

he is carny through and through. He
walks his talk.

And just so people know, a lot of the
clips that we're showing here are films

made by other filmmakers in that period.

Willis Kent made The Wages of Sin and J
.D. Kendis and guys like that who

all sort of were on the periphery of the
mainstream movie business, but they

were independent filmmakers who saw an
opportunity to make money on their own

much more than they would ever make
being a third or fourth stringer.

This little girl was in The Grapes of
Wrath. If you watch The Grapes of Wrath,

the family, she was a little girl. I
assume she made that after she made

Bride.

Yeah, that would be true. Which this
movie still manages to offend today.

Yeah, it's pretty extraordinary. I think
this guy was with the Jodes, too. No,

maybe not. Maybe not.

They left him behind, I think, when they
came west.

With good reason, as you can see.

But, yeah, Lloyd Friedkin, I think, made
Child Bride. You know, I have

to say, I researched all this stuff, but
these movies have traded hands so many

times over the years that I kind of lose
track of who the quote -unquote author

is. of some of this stuff is, it's
amazing.

Like, Child Bride continued to show up
on the Southern Circuit, you know, all

the way into the 60s, just repackaged.
There's that money on the right side

there, a big wad of cash. Yeah, that's
heading down to the lot. Yeah, going

down to the left for a red one.

Yeah.

But it was, oh, and then all the
burlesque stuff. This is really when...

You know, they figured out how to
package the sex shows.

I kind of feel sorry for some of the
girls in these situations because, of

course, once they had the photographic
record of their performances.

They weren't making any more money off
of it at all.

That was a lot better than filming
burlesque. It was easier for the

across the country to run a film over
and over again and try to find local

talent, if you will.

You know, not quite the titillation of
seeing the live performance by Louis St.

Cyr, but...

You know, you get a one -shot deal.
They'd shoot them after the regular

were done. They'd just bring the sets
back out, and the gals would do it one

more time for the cameras, and then it
was just raking in the dough from then

on that film.

Yeah, Dan shot that down in Los Angeles
on a burlesque stage where she was

performing after hours one night.

And then you, of course, have to talk a
little bit about Frank.

Frank Cannon Lauder.

who really was the glue for this movie
because the guys are a little reluctant

to be that introspective. And Frank
really

allowed us to delve in.

And Frank was a great pivot to the movie
because he knows every foot of the

movies.

On the other hand, he stays outside
enough of it to have some fun with it.

Exactly. Makes it safe for the audiences
that have never heard of these movies.

And he provides great and hilarious
commentary.

Because some of these movies, I mean,
how can, you know, these guys who made

these movies never took them seriously.
Why would we in a documentary?

Yeah, and that's what's great about
Frank is he doesn't really take them all

that seriously, but he does have such a
great interest in it, and he's able to

provide that context for everything
that's going on. And he's got such great

good humor about the whole thing.

Without him, it would have been tough.
Well, if you're going to get an expert

about the subject matter on camera, you
could get a professorial type from a

film school.

Or you could get somebody that's in it
and having a good time with it. And for

people who are maybe unfamiliar with
Frank, who is, of course, billed here as

director and film historian, I mean, he
is the man behind the legendary

Frankenhooker and Basket Case.

So Frank has been down this road
himself, and he sort of is a disciple of

guys in terms of his own films and also
the marketing of movies because

Frank was very savvy.

when he marketed his films and learning
lessons you know the kind of thing that

dave used to do for his pictures i
remember frank had the talking box for

frankenhooker for the video release of
frankenhooker it was like a squeeze me

box and the woman on the box would talk
and all those video

cassettes behind frank are in his
apartment he's got about

He's got a huge, huge shelf of an entire
wall, and behind that wall of VHS, it's

double. I mean, there's another row of
VHS behind those.

Probably the greatest library of this
kind of stuff I've ever seen.

I'd say Frank is in pretty deep.

And now Mau Mau, of course, which gives
us our title.

This was wild. This stuff was all shot
by a guy from San Bernardino who was a

used car dealer. He was a Rambler
dealer.

Yeah, Elwood Price.

And just took his camera and traveled to
Africa and was like Johnny on the spot

for the Mau Mau uprising.

And, you know, tried to sell it to, as
Frank said, to, you know, all the major

TV networks at that time. But, you know,
at that point, who cared about Africa?

Yeah, he wasn't even going over to film
an uprising. He was going to do a nature

travelogue. Yeah, exactly.

And he stumbles onto the uprising. He
staged a few scenes, like the hut

scenes. Those were staged, evidently.
Well, that was, yeah, well, after, I

it was after Price tried to sell this
damn thing to everybody.

And it was finally, there he is. Dan
Sonny was the guy who bought it, you

It's a classic filmmaker story. I mean,
here in 1954, he makes this film. It's

too raw. No one wants to know about the
third world in America in 1954.

And theatrically, it wasn't enough.

So he, like so many filmmakers, found
himself desperate.

And in the offices of exploiteer Dan
Sonny, who figured, well, I can make a

market for it. And he shot these scenes
on Cordova Street, little toplessness

and sex and violence.

And then marketed it. He just did, you
know, as he said, he just made those

shots for the lobby cards but decided to
throw it into the movie anyway since he

shot the stuff.

And, you know.

In truth, you know, what would become a
time -honored tradition.

in exploitation movies, the creation of
the insert shot.

And there are filmmakers, you know, like
Radley Metzger, who would go on to be a

very, very successful adult movie maker,
got his start shooting a lot of insert

stuff for foreign films that were
brought to this country before there was

art house market.

There was the grindhouse market, and
they'd take these Scandinavian movies or

French movies or whatever, and they'd
say, there's only just a little more

in this. And guys like Metzger would go
out there and shoot the insert shots,

try to match them as best as they could,
and cut them into the films, and they'd

show in the grindhouse circuit.

Of course, these weren't necessarily
prurient sex movies in their home

countries, but when they got to America,
that was how they were sold.

And so much of this is about marketing
and packaging, as we discussed in the

movie. It's all about marketing and
packaging.

And the artwork is terrific, which, from
my perspective as a director, I saw

this as a great opportunity to make a
film because we would have access to all

that art.

I mean, all of our artwork is based on
their original artwork.

That artwork is funny. I guess, in a
sense, this might be very fitting. The

whole thing, the whole road for me began
finding a bunch of this stuff in a

dumpster thrown out behind a theater
years ago in the early 80s. And I had no

idea what it all meant or who made these
films or anything, but my buddy Fred

Klein and I found this stuff.

It fascinated me for years, and the road
eventually led to Dave and then to Dan.

It was all these lobby cards and posters
and things from the 30s, which a lot of

them are on display in the movie here.

Each one of these people is a character.

My father's a character, Dave's a
character.

Rosalie Sonny, Dan's daughter, has
become a great friend, and she was

responsible for making...

Mau Mau happened in many ways, like
getting her father to do it because he

wanted him something to do, you know, in
his retirement.

It was more fun.

And all the, many of the photographs and
the old film clips of the home movies

all came from the Sonny collection. I
mean, a lot of this stuff we were just

handed on old VHSs. They were like 8mm
film transfers to VHS.

And, you know, it's really a credit to
Keith Robinson, the executive producer

who did the finishing work on this
movie.

to enhance all this stuff digitally to
make it look as good as it does because

this is really just taking an old VHS
home movie and plugging it into the DV

camera.

and then upgrading it from there.

Keith was a stickler. He did a great
job.

He had me in there touching up all the
still photos and everything in

Not only was I a writer on this project
and a co -producer, but was actually

touching up the photographs in the other
room. It was a pretty quick operation.

We were touching up photos and dumping
them into the software and turning them

around and spitting them out in minutes.

We never touched a piece of film ever in
the making of this movie, which is very

interesting.

Not even the old film club? No. The
films had already been transferred, and

went to the facility where the master
tapes were stored, and we just did video

-to -video transfers, and that's what
you have. We did a lot of enhancement

work. A lot of the movies look a little
better than the way we found them

because of our own digital enhancement
work for this particular piece.

But everything was scanned or
transferred. It was an entirely digital

production, from transcribing the
digital videotapes into script form to

all the source material, including the
stills.

It's funny to think, looking at that
shocking birth of a baby.

footage that was such a big deal at the
time. I mean, who would imagine that

years later, you know, with the video
revolution that, you know, people would

in the delivery room videotaping the
delivery of their own babies and all

stuff. And everybody has that footage
now. But at the time, these guys were

operating to actually show a baby being
born was considered some incredibly

shocking thing that could, you know, get
you run out of town on a rail.

But then again, here the girls are in
Catholic school, you know. That was the

fascinating thing about Dan and Dave are
as different as they are fascinating

characters. And Dan, who had this other
life as a Catholic patriarch.

and raised his kids right in Catholic
schools and paid all their college

tuitions. They're all bright, energetic
women.

You couldn't ask for a better father.
No.

I have to say the Thunnys, having gotten
to know them, are one of the most

together and normal families I've ever
met.

And then you see what he made for a
living.

It's one of those great things in life.

I've never quite gotten my head
completely around that concept.

We've been through this whole thing, and
it's still pretty shocking. Every so

often I'll be watching one of Dan's
movies, and I'll just think, my God,

were they thinking?

I know what they were thinking, just
what Dave was just thinking. Yeah,

Snapping a big bill.

Got to buy those girls a car.

How are we going to do that?

And the girls squared up with it. They
just adore Dan.

It's a good family.

This was one of my favorite things in
the picture. I mean, this is just Dave

a T.

Hustling a three -year -old. You know,
they're never too young to hustle.

Dave is a one -of -a -kind, a real
genuine character, and brilliant, too.

He's a very well -educated man, a very
sophisticated man.

You could buy the cops off with peanuts
in that town.

Yeah, and he's a born performer.

I mean, you know, granted this is a
documentary, but we just went down there

I said, Dave, I just want you to go and
work the lot the way you would work it

any day. If you've got to give somebody
a little hell, you go ahead and do it.

And here he is giving people hell. Yeah,
this was perfect.

I mean, this walk around the lot was
just great.

Again, we did that in probably 20
minutes. It was a very efficient

We shot this in about, over the course
of seven days, over a three -month

period. But it was seven partial days.

That was how quick it went.

You know, here he is buying off the
cops.

And, you know, they're so fast, Dave and
Dan.

You wire them up with a wireless
lavalier microphone, you let them run.

And it's really a challenge to just make
sure you got them framed and in focus

because they're just going all the time.
And if you, they're putting it down

and... You better pick it up or it's
gone.

Dave, here he is. I mean, this is the
man in his kingdom right here.

This is what it's all about.

That whole image, the ticket taker, you
know, is a character in this country

that has always fascinated me. And Dave
is just a prime example, you know, how

to just, you know, pick people's pockets
with a smile.

Dave is the champ.

This is from She Freak, right?

This is a hot little number. I like
this.

you couldn't stand it. Now we've got 16
beautiful girls on the inside in various

stages. Remember when we shot this
interview, it's funny, interviewing Dave

tricky because he has his rap that he
has perfected, and you've got to keep

him.

Amused. You've got to keep him amused or
else he will go into the carny rap so

fast. This was our first shot of the
whole movie. This was our first shoot

shooting this sit -down with Dave. And
it was the first day we used this new

camera, the Canon XL1, and we lit it
very carefully.

And, you know, I just took about an hour
to get the set, which normally is not a

lot of time.

But, you know, I was just trying to get
it right and get the frame focused, and

we finally got it together. and we ask
him one question, and he's looking at

watch. And I'm thinking, oh, we're
screwed. Yeah, I thought we were in

there. Well, it's also tricky because,
you know, I had, having interviewed him

at length for the book,

you know, I knew exactly what to ask and
where to go. But, you know, you get to

be Dave's age, and it's like we've been
down this road before.

And so I was, you know, it was very
tricky.

to try to make it seem fresh when he's
looking at me and saying, you know, I

so afraid that he was going to say, I
told you all this already. You know all

this stuff. You know, why am I doing
this again?

But he got into it. Once he knew how
thorough we were going to be and how far

were taking this thing, he became
accommodating. I think he's used to...

very accommodating. At the same time, he
was also a little annoyed by it all. He

was. We weren't that...

We weren't that breezy. Normally he can
dispatch a camera crew in a couple of

hours. That's exactly it. He's had crews
come in and do this stuff, and they get

there 15 minutes, and he's done.

We hung on to him like a leech for two
days.

Solid. And we came down there
purposefully on the last weekend of the

of his fairgrounds before it closed for
the season.

So he had business on his mind. He was
running a carny, and the last thing he

needed was a camera crew bugging him.

I think Dave appreciated it once he saw
the movie because he really didn't know

what we were going for. And he also had
not ever seen digital video technology

on a prosumer level.

He didn't know how long you can run.

I mean, the two of them would look at
the camera and say, I can't even begin

go there. I don't even understand what
this is about. But at the same time, it

didn't look like a professional crew.

So I think they were a little thrown by
who we were and what we were up to.

And yet we were prying into his life. In
fact, when I went down to see Dave

originally about a year before we shot,
I asked him, I said, look, I'm really

interested more about who you are and
who Dan is as individuals with the film

being a wonderful secondary story.

It's not about the films first. It's
about you first. It's a character study.

Therefore, it's really important that
your wife Carol would be involved in

And she was very reluctant and very shy.

Yeah, very much so. And it was actually
a bit of a struggle. But on the other

hand, we were able to luckily establish
a personal rapport.

And I think Carol knew exactly what it
was that we were looking for. And she

gave it to us in one statement. And that
was it. And we got it. And thank God we

were in focus and the sound was on.
Yeah.

With Carol, less is more. I mean, she
really...

What she said was very strong and
wonderful, and she became a favorite to

audience as far as the character is
concerned.

And I just really thought Carol was
terrific.

We established a really terrific
relationship behind the camera when

we were doing this, and it was tough to
get her in front of the camera. She was

very natural and terrific when the
camera was on her.

But as soon as you went off to do
interviews, things with Dave in the car,

was hanging out with Carol. She was so
open, talking about everything.

And they're very different people.

Even politically, they're very
different. Carol is much more liberal

than Dave is.

But they've had this incredible
relationship for so long.

You know, the scene when they go to the
country club, of course, we really

wanted to shoot them at the country club
having lunch, but they didn't allow

cameras in there, which was really too
bad because that was the one thing I

regret more than anything else that we
missed.

in this was at the country club when I
asked Carol, because her family, they

were all Baptist ministers.

She comes from a whole family of Baptist
ministers.

And I said to her, how did your family
react to you marrying a guy who

makes dirty movies for a living? And she
just looked at me and said, honey, my

family never got over me marrying a Jew.

Which is just, you know, from Alabama,
and that was the...

That was the deal, and it's a remarkable
relationship.

She had a wonderful life in the sense of
when this was all going on, they were

living in Los Angeles, and he was the
king of exploitation.

She was at the Los Angeles County Zoo.

She was doing really wonderful community
service.

And as Dave said, you know, she has more
degrees than a thermometer.

She's a very well -educated woman and
wonderfully refined. In fact, the two of

them are the perfect couple. Gracious
hosts. Yeah, and she was very, very

concerned about the state of affairs in
the country. I remember when you were

off shooting in the car with Dave, Carol
got into a long thing with me about the

school system in Alabama, and I just
said, well, let's go see for ourselves.

We actually drove to one of the local
schools.

and just walked through while class was
in session because she wanted to see for

herself what was actually going on with
the tax dollars down there. It was an

eye -opener for her.

Now we're talking about the nudist camps
down in Florida where Dave, now working

with Herschel Gordon -Lewis in Chicago,
was just desperate to get out of the

Chicago winters. So they would make
these movies in the nudist camps in

And, of course, they imported all the
beautiful women because you don't find

them normally at a nudist camp.

And a lot of them he mentioned were, you
know, hookers out of Miami and a bunch

of them, you know, hooked on smack.

But, you know, other than that... Other
than that, well, and then eventually

they got around to the bright idea of
marquee value where they would actually

bring some strippers of note, or shall I
say burlesque stars of note, down there

and do the films with them as the main
attraction.

These films are just so daffy. It's
unbelievable.

But, you know, these guys were
operators. Like you say, the idea of

getting out of the winters in Chicago,
going down to Florida, writing it off on

your income tax.

And writing the script, by the way, on
the airplane. On the airplane. They'd

write the scripts on the airplane.

You know, what scripts there were.

And, you know, not a bad little con game
they're playing, you know.

And there's a point that Dave is going
to make later about how the independent

filmmakers were sort of, you know,
breaking down the doors against

and things.

You know, and truthfully it was these
pictures that were doing that.

and sort of paving the way for greater
permissiveness on the movie screens

on. As Frank said, these were really
pretty much adult films for children.

Absolutely. Well, the key thing in these
movies, what made these movies possible

and why nudity was suddenly...

okay on movie screens was a Supreme
Court decision that nudity per se was

obscene as long as people weren't doing
anything in the pictures. I mean, you're

just looking at them and they're walking
around, of course, playing volleyball

and all this stuff. There's no sex. As
Frank says, it's not even implied.

So there is an incredibly innocent
quality to all this. Well, one of them

down the law by basically doing a story
of Adam and Eve.

And when they were brought into the
court, they're saying, well, are you

that the Bible's obscene? Yeah, Dave
jumped at the opportunity to distribute

that, yeah.

He couldn't run to the Legion of Decency
fast enough with that film.

The music in Mal Mal Sex Sex by Eddie
Betos and the Nervous Brothers really

helped the movie. I mean, right here
we're hearing original music from the

movies. We use that occasionally.

But in order to create a cohesiveness,
we had this wonderful group of

the Nervous Brothers here in Los
Angeles, pretty much riff genre, because

were going chronologically in order from
Dan's story through Dave's story. There

was a rough...

chronology from the 30s through the 60s.
And the music of the Minerva's Brothers

went decade by decade from speakeasy
right into wah -wah guitar. And the

knowledge that those guys have is so
extraordinary that to be able to just

in and say, okay, we're thinking of
something like New Orleans 1938.

It's a brothel with floral wallpaper.

And it shows you what the music does in
a movie because it just brought up the

production value of the whole movie, and
it created a cohesiveness and a

character to the overall film of Malmau
Sex Ex instead of having all these

genres pieced together.

And, you know, I can't speak... And they
really... The soundtrack is such a

pleasure. I mean, you know, I listen to
it all the time because it really does.

It's like a little history of American
roadhouse, grindhouse music.

that is just so evocative of those
different eras.

There's a soundtrack CD, which is
something you can listen to over and

again because it's instrumental and it's
very flavorful, and it's available on

the website at www .malmousexx .com.

That was almost a graceful plug we were
working on there.

You know, after hanging out with these
guys, a little of it rubs off after a

while. A lot of it rubs off. In fact, a
lot of what they taught has helped in

the marketing of the documentary.

Some of their old tricks and everything,
we've applied them.

Yeah, this is where Dave is making the
comment about how the independent

filmmakers are the ones who did all the
work in breaking down the doors and the

barriers to freedom of expression.

Here are the parrots.

Dave and Carol didn't have children
except for the parrots, which last a

time, outlive them.

Yeah, they're amazing birds. I don't
know how fond Dave really is of those

parrots, to be honest with you.

Well, they're awfully loud.

They dominate the household there,
there's no question about it. I just

this scene. Yeah, this is one of my
favorites.

Dave is an entirely different person. I
mean, you know, he's the exploitation

king, but he's got foibles like
everybody else.

And the relationship between Dave and
Carol right there, I mean, she really is

like not just a wife, but a mom in some
respects, you know.

You know, it's funny, after showing in
theaters, people go, why the hell did

have a thermos scene in there? What was
that about? And then I have other people

come up and say, that was my favorite
scene in the whole movie.

Now, this was an interesting setup. That
was one of our favorite moments.

These guys love each other so much that
they just have to go at it, boy.

Dan was waiting for that one.

He was. He was whispering to me several
times that I'm going to get him on this

one. I'm going to get him with the
Connie Mason thing.

Even though they're still active and
their movies are still selling, they're

an age now where they can let their hair
down, so to speak, and laugh about a

lot of it and be a lot more candid. I
don't think we would have gotten this

insight into their personalities 15
years ago. No, they would have been much

more guarded, I'm sure.

But right now they're like, hey, you
know, it was a good run.

They're both happy.

They're both proud of what they've done.

And they've had a good score up, so
they're pretty open about it.

You could believe that he screwed every
leading gal I ever made a picture with.

This scene always gets a lot of laughs,
too, because this is yet another

American couple.

She just knows where everything is and
has to take care of everything.

And Dave's going.

I mean, he was like, are you coming or
what?

He's heading down to the lot to run the
carnival. Well, nothing gets between

Dave and the carny lot.

I mean, he'll run you over if he's late
to get to the lot. So that's his whole

thing, man.

As, you know, Frank just hits it on the
head here, you know, and has that little

bit of larceny. Here's this fabulous
thing where he waves to the cops.

And this is, you know, driving around
Anniston.

It was interesting. When we got Dave and
Carol in the car, there was a lot more

intimacy and a lot more introspection.

For example, in this scene, I went off
with Dave alone in the car so there

wasn't a crew, even though it was just
three of us.

And also with Carolyn in the car scene,
I was alone with her.

And I put the camera pretty much on my
lap, so it wasn't even in her face, and

was just hoping it was in focus.

And that, you know, these cameras are
great that way, and it really sort of

lets, after a while they forget it's
there, and it becomes a very

moment.

Scored getting this footage of Dave in
the pickup.

And I think a lot of people wonder, huh,
what was Carol's reaction to all this

stuff? And I think, truthfully, she just
didn't watch it. No.

She really has no knowledge of it. And,
you know, to our knowledge, she has not

seen this movie.

But it's not like it embarrassed Dave
because that scene, for example, from

pickup where he's in bed with a woman, I
got a call from Dave when we were

making the movie and said, hey, by the
way.

They found a copy of the pickup after 40
years of it's been missing, or 30

years. He led us to it. It was in the
vault in Scandinavia. Somebody found it.

He says, you've got to get a hold of it.
So we did, and then we see this scene,

and we said, well, I'm sure Dave's not
going to be offended if we use this

scene. He was proud of his performance,
I think. He is proud.

And the purpose of these scenes with Dan
at home is,

personally, I'm fascinated by elders.

And it's just amazing to me about what
kind of lives they led.

And no matter what, this is what it
comes to.

And it's so slow and it's so quiet. And
that's why the house is silent because

it's just, it's quiet. It's old and
quiet now.

And I find it interesting that he is
happy and he is very satisfied with,

as he says, being a shut -in now because
he doesn't have really the health and

vitality to get out of the house much
anymore.

But because he lived his life to, in his
way, the fullest and was happy and he's

got good kids and he's been successful
financially, you know, the quietness,

solitude of the house is fine with him.
He can rest easy.

And I think that's a real statement
about what one does in the course of

life, that if they can end up shut into
their house with what looks like a very

sedentary, if not boring life and be
content, I think that's an amazing feat.

And a lot of people who watch this
sequence says, well, now I know what my

grandfather does when he's home alone.
This is the only way I can get any

exercise.

And so this is a, you know, I think this
was a very important part of Mau Mau

Sex Sex.

It's as far as you can imagine from
nudist camp films, but it's really, to

the essence of the story about the
square up of being an elder.

Margaret, she's an interesting character
because I was never quite certain how

much awareness she had about the product
that Dan was

producing.

But what mattered was really taking care
of those girls.

That was what it was all about.

They were very family -oriented. For
example, Dan and Dave each smoked about

cigars a day, but never in the house.

And Dan didn't drink. He maybe had a
drink here and there, but he wasn't a

drinker. He lived a very simple life. I
mean, he's a very successful man in

every respect, including financially.

But he likes a good Carl's Jr.

and a Pollo Loco, and he lives a very,
very simple life.

That smoking is no good, too.

When Carl comes over, we play a lot of
gin.

It's a nice game.

Not that he wasn't a tough guy in his
younger days. We've certainly got

inferences from people that Dan would
read people the riot act.

But he was having to run hurt on a
pretty tough crowd, tough business.

But this is the stuff like here where
he's playing cards with Carl.

You know, this is what he misses.

And that was the whole point of this
scene was just to show that this is like

what's left of the hustle that he used
to have down on Cordova Street, you

when the guys would come in and sell him
this and sell him that. And he would

always get them in a gin game.

This is the way you get to be.

My hobby was playing gin.

They'd come into town just to play gin
with me for three, four hours every day.

I'd win all their money all the time.

Take your monies down.

You're building a good hand there.
You're taking everything into the world.

can see it.

So you'd win $30, $40, and then you'd go
out and buy the guy a drink.

What the hell are you talking about?

Oh, God.

You know, you go back to your sneaky
self, you get that... You look good on

face there, and your belly aches about
the worst cards.

Son of a bitch.

And then, of course, by contrast, this
is Dave totally in his element here.

is what it's all about.

Dan's left with Jen, and Dave, he still
has to lie.

And man, does he love this.

And it's just interesting that at this
stage of the game, Dave has been through

everything in the movie business. He's
really, in a sense, had every job that

you can have in the movie business,
starting as a publicist and moving

everything, writing ad copy, writing
scripts, designing posters, producing,

writing, directing.

He's done everything.

And it all ends up back on the lot,
which is where he started.

And I think this is what he loves more
than anything else, to be honest with

you. Oh, I think so, too. This is his
passion, no question.

Although he still, you know, attends
film festivals and showings of his

any chance he gets, he really does enjoy
speaking about it.

This was interesting, and you did a
great job shooting all this stuff. You

this is all just one man, one camera,
capturing all this madness.

And all of these people, of course, know
Dave and love Dave.

All the wrestlers here. In fact, Rick
there under the blue mask is, I think,

partners in the carnival. Yes, with
Dave. With Dave.

In fact, we had just missed, they did a
thing in the ring where they beat on

Dave.

Where the hell were you? Why weren't you
here shooting? So it's like, you know,

you really have to be fast with these
guys.

I have to say, you haven't experienced
all of America until you have seen a

carnival. In the deep south like this,
it is really something.

Remember when we tried to film that one
guy who was in the flannel cake booth?

He did not want to shoot in that grease.

Well, that or else he was probably
wanted in four or five states, one or

other.

Yeah, that was a great shot you got of
Dave there. That was very fitting.

And this is a restaurant in downtown Los
Angeles where the Sonny's called and

said, you know, we're going to go eat
lunch down there with Dan's sister. Why

don't you come meet us?

Because we felt that Dave, who's 10
years younger than Dan, is much more

than Dan is at this point.

And we wanted to balance the movie a
little bit. We didn't want just all Dave

action and just Dan sitting down.

So what does Dan do at age 85, 86?

Well, you know, he plays cards and he
eats.

So that was what we had to work with.
But, on the other hand, the amazing

characters that hang out with him, like
this guy, Steve, were just hilarious.

And I think the point of this was to
show that, you know, Dan is a very

successful man in that he has a tight
family.

He's a real patriarch in the true sense
of the word. Exactly. And it's

fascinating. And they're all funny
people, like his sister to the right,

His sister, another achiever in that she
raised 150 foster, teenage foster boys

over the course of 10 or 15 years.

Single -handedly. Incredible woman. Just
because she wanted to.

It's too bad in the time frame that we
have here and we have to stick with Dan.

These peripheral characters who are so
remarkable like Annie and like Steve.

You know, you wish you had more time to
explore their stories.

Well, we did actually in the original
cut, but it just didn't make any sense

be there. Well, yeah, we were veering
off into too many different avenues.

And here's Dan talking about, you know,
a good family man, obviously, very

politely opens and closes the door at
this age for his wife and talks about

he knocked her up and had four girls in
the process.

I mean, he's just completely an
unaffected man, which is very refreshing

film business.

It is interesting how different they
are.

Best of friends. But, you know, here
Dave and Carol have been together as

as Dan and Margaret. But, you know, they
have no children.

And I think it's pretty obvious that
Dave, you know, the carnival life is,

know, the substitute for a family,
really. I mean, that's his family in a

ways.

This is really the one moment Carol
allowed us.

And, you know, she used it so wisely
because she really sums it all up with

humor as well.

She was most entertaining and very
pithy.

Interview subject.

She's terrific, actually.

Yeah, Carol was a very, very pithy
woman.

She was not always certain of the...

the value of the work that Dave was
doing.

She had her questions about it. Look at
her.

Oh, yeah, she was a formidable woman. No
question about it.

And this is where the camera's literally
on the lap because she was so

intimidated that once I put it on the
lap and looked ahead like I was just a

passenger, she opened up a little bit.
Thank God it was in frame.

And, you know, the whole point of the
movie here is that after we show this

really warm family relationship segment,
like, gosh, you know, these are just

benign old grandfatherly types, really
good guys.

Then we just turn the screws a little
bit and get into probably the most

controversial part of their careers,
which was the splatter films, the

splatters, which are, you know.

Personally, you know, I find
objectionable to this day. I mean, you

ridiculous as some of them are.

But, you know, our whole intention here
was to have the audience maybe second

-guess their feelings about these guys.
Yeah, now we're moving into Act 3 here,

and it's like, well, you thought these
guys were cute, grumpy old men. Well,

do you feel about them now when they're
ripping out people's hearts and things?

And, of course, it's a...

You know, there are two ways to look at
this. I mean, these guys were just

having a good time. And it's part of the
great con job that they love so much.

And that they're saying, oh, we're going
to shock people. And guess what?

They're going to pay for the privilege
of being shocked.

And the reality is we're just screwing
around and having a good time.

Except Dan. Dan didn't like these
movies. No, Dan did not approve of this,

really. It didn't, of course, stop him
from taking in the money.

But he was not...

Behind these. But, you know, Dan was not
involved in the Gore films.

And unfortunately, because of time
limitations and such, we really didn't

into Herschel Gordon -Lewis, who is
really identified with Blood Feast, even

more so than Dave is. I mean, Dave was,
of course, a partner in the whole

operation.

But Herschel went on to make a lot more
of those films, the Gore films,

after their partnership had split up and
Dave moved out west to hook up with

Dan. And then Herschel Gordon -Lewis
went out on his own and kept making the

Gore films.

That was a conscious decision we made
editorially, which was the second you

up the can of worms of who made all
these movies, even Herschel, which in

hindsight might have been an oversight.
Perhaps we should have mentioned it in

the body of the movie that Herschel did
make these. I mean, granted.

But for the most part, it was a very
difficult situation because we were

to focus on two individuals who happened
to make movies.

I mean, that was the main thrust of the
movie. The second you start talking

about Herschel, you need to go here and
there and here. Right, and Herschel's

his own story, you know.

And then suddenly you get into a very
unwieldy situation where, you know, it's

not the story you intended to tell. This
was never intended to be a

comprehensive look at the genre of
exploitation.

That you'd want to do a ten -part
series, you know, before. Or at least

Grindhouse, The Forbidden World of
Adults. Yeah, buy the book.

answers a lot of those questions.

But, yeah, and it's funny because of the
fact that we didn't really mention

Herschel or the footage we had with
Dave. He did, of course, talk about

Herschel, but there was no, you know,
clean way to bring it in without people

saying, well, what's that all about?
Who's he?

It's unfortunate because people think
because he's not mentioned that there

something between them, which, you know,
there was slightly for a while, but

that's all.

patched up, and both of these guys, of
course, have their odd and equal place

film history now.

The one story we decided in the movie to
tell from start to finish about a

particular movie, the conception through
the marketing and success of Blood

Feast. And I don't know what the reality
of it is.

You're remaking Blood Feast.

Well, yeah, I've heard that for years.
We'll see what happens. I think they're

actually doing it now.

The thing is, it's been remade a million
times.

I mean, the concept is there. It's a
splatter film.

When Dave talks about the opening, you
know, the premiere, I think over the

years that line of cars has grown by
several miles.

$30 million gross.

Oh, yeah.

That blood piece was terrible. Well, you
know what they did? They cut off a...

a pig's head or something like that,
wasn't it? I mean, I didn't even see it.

didn't want to see it. In doing research
for my book, it was always, there was

this magic number when you'd ask people,
how much did it cost to make and market

this movie? And it was like $26 ,000.

I heard $26 ,000 so many times that it
seemed to be like the Blood Feast, $26

,000. The Immoral Mr. T's cost $26 ,000.
And you know how much that little movie

made in the long run?

It's like Rodriguez's film, El Mariachi.
El Mariachi, yeah.

You know, it was a $7 ,000 film. Well,
it really wasn't a $7 ,000 film, but

great publicity.

And I remember when Blair Witch came
out, Blair Witch Project, Dave called me

up, and he was shocked, offended, and
probably completely impressed. He said,

that is the greatest scam I've ever seen
in film history, that movie.

And he was, I can't even operate the
camera. I think he was horrified and

impressed all at the same time. And
envious, very envious. Yeah, I mean, it

Now, this, I have to say, that scene we
just saw, I think is the worst example

in the movie of the roughies. And
honestly, the splatter films are so

and so obviously fake that they don't
bother me as much as some of the

I made what today I don't like to sound
too immodest is still considered the

standard roughy, and that was a picture
called The Defilers. Even Dan comes out

of this. You know Dave's a little bit
more of a rascal, but Dan comes out of

this and says, oh, that was a good
picture. That was a good picture.

And all of a sudden you realize, wait a
minute. And I have to throw in a two

cents here. This fellow who is the chief
defiler, Byron May, was

actually the gaffer on this movie.

And Dave had cast another actor in the
lead role, and on the very first day of

shooting, the guy that they hired just
couldn't convincingly play such a rat,

such a lousy guy.

And Byron went up to Dave and said, I'm
better than this guy. He'd never acted

before. And so Dave gave him the part.

And that's how this guy got his start in
Hollywood. And he ended up directing a

number of pictures for Dave later on as
B. Ron Elliott

on a space thing and a few other
pictures.

But he was like a walk -on. He was just
a grip turned maniacal movie actor.

I was putting up the money.

It's interesting. Frank Henenlotter
obviously doesn't care for these films

particularly either. I mean, he's not
being happy here. He was pretty serious

about and solemn about what these movies
were about.

Another thing I liked about Frank a lot
was that he loves these films, but he

comes from a very light, almost
entertaining level. He likes to keep

Well, you know, you have a choice.

When I was researching Grindhouse, I had
to watch an awful lot of direct.

And you have the choice of being
appalled or, you know, trying to find

humor in it and kind of laugh it off.

The drag here was that there was just no
photographs that we could find of the

interior of their office that they're
talking about on Cordova Street.

These guys were not working for
posterity, shall we say.

So, unfortunately, as you say, no
pictures of the working life down there

Cordova Street, which was too bad.

I mean, there were, you know, these
typical shots of the family.

And that's Dan's brother Ed, yeah, on
the left.

Who died relatively young.

In fact, Dan doesn't understand why he's
still alive, because most people in his

family did pass young.

Now, in theory...

Stacy Walker, of course, and some
hardcore TV addicts may recognize Sam

here, who was on an ABC TV series called
The Rookies.

This is, at least in theory, everybody
says that, including Dave.

He says, you know, that's Sam Melville.
He went on to do The Rookies.

You think so?

Maybe we'll hear from Sam Melville. I
don't know.

He was quite good in Smell of Honey,
Swallow, and Brine. My personal favorite

title.

Dave took such pleasure in trying to get
stuff past the censors and past, you

know, what you could get in the
newspaper.

And that's what really kept him going.
That was the biggest thrill he got out

the business, I think. And he used to,
you know, he talked about how they had

legal packages he would send out to
theaters that were like do -it -yourself

legal defense kits.

to help the theaters fight censorship
violations in their local cities where

they were playing, if they should get
into trouble with the censors. They

actually had legal kits.

I mean, they really did blaze the trail
for the First Amendment in many ways.

I saw an ad slick that he did for a
picture he distributed called The Big

Snatch. And then he had on the slick a
whole page of C's.

for the local newspapers to cut out and
put over it so the title would be

changed to The Big Catch in your area.

If you have problems with the censors in
your areas, cut these out and paste

them over. It's thought of everything,
this guy.

And I have to say, of all the mainstream
sex films that you

could see, the stuff that was made in
the 60s was by far the most.

prurient and strange and perverse.

You know, really much more so than the
hardcore stuff that you see today. At

least mainstream stuff.

Here's a classic Dave and Carol moment.

Lesbian scene and a whipping scene.

Doesn't matter what the film is. It
doesn't matter what the context is. He's

going to find an excuse to put those two
things in there. So in the midst of a

frothy, silly sci -fi comedy, one girl
gets whipped.

Some of the transfers, these were like
three -quarter inch video transfers we

found in very bad shape.

We had some bad source material to work
with, but we did as best we could. we

could with image enhancement here.

But you know what? It doesn't really
matter because they were never stellar

-looking movies to begin with. Right,
right. Space Thing, the picture directed

by the guy who was the star of The
Defilers.

And I remember Dave told me a great
story about his wife was the production

designer and came to him with all these
elaborate costume designs.

And Dave just threw them all out and she
says, don't you respect the director's

vision?

Dave said, the only thing we respect
around here is the producer's wallet.

And there he is in all his glory.

This is how I'll probably always think
of Dave. Yeah, this is Dave at the

of his career.

And the fabulous she -freak.

And this really is, you know, Dave's...

baby this was this was his opportunity
to try to portray his first love which

was the carnival and uh dan still
doesn't quite get that i

love this stuff between them how they uh
it was a lot of fun getting them to

talk about each other when they were
apart as well as just getting the

and they were together oh yeah get them
to tell tales on each other from from

long distance was Pretty amusing.

Yeah, hey, hey, Dave, did you know Dan
said, oh, that's not true, or I say,

Dan, you know, Dave said that you did
this or that. He goes, oh, he's a liar.

He always says that. He's making shit up
again. If he doesn't know the real

answer, he'll make it up, and it'll
sound better than the real answer, which

thinks is a gift that Dave has.

And then, of course, here's our montage
of all their...

Strangest bits, all the coming
attractions.

Which is really the essence of their
movie making, the coming attractions.

The lurid lures of David F. Friedman.

Dave is one of the greats in
copywriting. He truly is. I mean, some

the copy he wrote to sell movies is
legendary.

It's pretty amazing stuff.

And then, of course, throwing this stuff
up in the trailer.

There might be like five seconds of that
in the movie, but Dave makes sure that

he's got the tease working.

The announcer that you hear, he used on
all the trailers, and he used to hand

the copy to the announcer to read these
trailers.

And he said, you know, I'd have to give
him about ten minutes to just stop

laughing, and then he'd record the copy.

And I think this is where Dave really...

This was probably Dave's favorite part
of the business was the hustle, selling

the sizzle, not the steak, as he says
here.

And he was truly a gifted copywriter.
And in this little section here, he

mentions Kroger Babb in passing, which I
think a lot of people won't know who

Kroger Babb is, but he was sort of
Dave's mentor, a legendary.

a con man, producer, distributor, who
made a picture called Mom and Dad in the

1940s that was the most successful
independent movie ever made in this

really. And it was all showmanship. It
was a dreadful movie that featured a

birth of a baby at the end. But Dave
went out on the road with Kroger Babb to

sell that thing, to roadshow it, and
that's where he learned all the tricks

the trade from Babb, who's a whole story
in his own right.

This ethereal look is courtesy of
perhaps the brightest, sharpest day in

Angeles history when we shot this in
December.

And, you know, you lean a little heavily
on this camera technology thinking it's

going to get whatever you need, but the
fact that it got the skin tones was

amazing to us.

And here's Frank after a three -hour
interview. I said, let's just have some

fun. Let's watch the movies.

But that whole row behind him of VHSes,
imagine there's another row behind those

on the shelves. Incredible. And as part
of Dave's classic copywriting, he tried

to convince people in the advertising
for Darcy Blows that it was an award

-winning film, or it had the award for
best spanking scene from an

organization called ASS, the American
Spanking Society.

bestowed their award for best spanking
scene on Darcy Blows.

And don't even try to go to the internet
and find the organization because I'm

sure it doesn't even exist.

It does not exist. I guarantee it.

And I think this is really portraying
who they were and how much fun they had

making these movies.

I mean, they used real bikers. They'd
find the bikers. Look at these guys.

had a ball.

Here's Dan in the 60s.

Despite that photograph, I can attest
that he was not a stoner in the 50s. No,

nor was Dave, if that would be my guess.
No, no.

But, you know, that's another
interesting story, is that Dan and Dave

were hip and in their prime in the 60s,
and look how old they are now.

with adult theaters all over the
country. You will note that Dave's cigar

days is never lit. No. He does not smoke
them anymore. It's merely a prop.

It's part of who he is, and he can't get
through the day without them. No, no,

no.

Goldfinger. Goldfinger.

Goldfinger. No, the girl in Goldfinger.
No, no, no. The Goldfinger was a...

Please believe me, because I...

I've been arguing with you for 25 years
on this.

Goldfinger. But here they are. As the
New York Times calls it, the Sunshine

of smut. Yeah, there they are.

And this is where they're going around
and around, I think, on how they came up

with the name of the pussycat.

We had an interesting effect here. Every
time the two of them would get together

in the car, we had a tuba, a solo
underneath them.

And we held it until this somewhat
seemingly serious conversation digresses

again. And the tuba comes in, and it
tells everybody comedy's about to start.

And it works with the audience. It was a
great little placement of music.

I love this where Dave whips out his
role.

Because the first time I met Dave was in
Las Vegas. He was there for the

showman's convention.

And I went up and met him in Vegas. And
I got to tell you, man, doing Las Vegas

with Dave when he was still really
rolling.

was quite a show because he was known in
every casino. He'd walk through the

door, and, Mr. Friedman, good to see
you.

He'd just, in passing, throw down 100
and get his chips and blow 30 minutes at

craps table or something.

He really knows his way around.

And this is where Dan made most of his
money, which was the Pussycat Theater,

which Dan and Dave started originally
downtown L .A., and Dave pretty much

out pretty quickly.

Dan then had it, and then a gentleman by
the name of Vince Miranda walked in the

office one day and said, I want to buy
your theater chain. Problem is, I don't

have any money.

But Dan listened to him, and Vince
Miranda...

became a hugely successful real estate
man. Owned 100 buildings in Los Angeles.

When he died, he owned... Dan loves to
tell this story. He owed $13 million in

taxes to the IRS when he died. That's
how much money he has. Had the key to

city given to him by the mayor of Los
Angeles.

And that's where Dan... It was probably
Dan's greatest deal. He said, meeting

Dave Freeman and Vince Miranda were my
two best deals.

And this is something that would blow
people's minds to think how much bricks

and mortar.

was invested in the adult film business
just to show the movies. Because this

was only a few years before the
invention of the videocassette recorder,

was effectively going to put an end to
the pussycat theater chain. But they

scored right when the time was right,
and Vince parlayed that theater chain

real estate holdings all over the place
that had nothing to do with the adult

film industry.

It was pretty fascinating.

I mean, I guess that kind of sprung up
in the mid-'60s and was done, you know,

inside of 10 years, really.

And there were theaters all over the
western United States. I forget how many

they had at one point, but it was a lot.

75 or something like that? Yeah, there
were theaters actually being built from

the ground up just to show adult -only
movies, and that's incredible.

running double features there.

I do remember in those theaters seeing
guys masturbating, not overtly, but so

there were guys there masturbating just
at the bare breasts, and that is what it

was all about.

I don't think the guys came there.

to see a plot.

And talking about

operating these theaters, he just had
the most bemused attitude about the

thing.

This was one of the funny comedic tit
-for -tats between Dave and Dan where

talks about how

You know, the unwritten law of never
having anyone sit in front of you,

you, or next to you in a movie theater
in these kind of theaters.

One day, you know, he says, Dan just
took out every other seat.

And we asked Dan about that, and he
said, oh, hell.

He said, now, why the hell would I take
seats out of the theater? Why would a

businessman take seats out?

And, you know, they went back and forth
on that one, but we didn't go there with

that because we had enough of that, and
who knows what the truth is? Who knows

what the truth is?

Well, that kind of defines their
characters as well. You know, Dan is the

pragmatic businessman, and Dave is
the...

is the publicist and the great
copywriter, and he knows a good story

tells it.

And Dave, he's a very complex man.

You could tell he could get down with
the dirtiest of them to make this

work. And at the same time, he is such a
polite and well -mannered man.

Absolutely.

And he sort of held fast to his credo
here because they did kind of get

out of the business when Hardcore came
in because the tease just wasn't there

anymore. And when he makes that comment
about somebody put the third act right

up front and they showed everything, as
soon as the curtains parted and the

projector went on, you saw it all. That
was very offensive to Dave.

It was against every rule of
showmanship, and it really is a big part

reason he got out of the business. Now,
in truth, I've got to tell a tale on

Dave. I mean, he did produce a couple of
hardcore movies along the way.

He didn't jump out at the first sight of
it. He just decided after experiencing

it for himself that that was not
something he was interested in.

And here, of course, is Mike, Mike
Rainey, who is their current distributor

their films. And this is Mike's vault
where he has not only Dave and Dan's

films, but many, many other films that
his company, Something Weird Video,

distributes now on DVD and does quite
well with it.

And Mike, as Mike himself likes to say,
he is the 41st thief.

And this is like some cavern.

Some ancient civilization. If somebody
stumbled across this, they would wonder

what this society was all about.

Dan had never seen the vault.

I mean, you know, he's just, he's done
with the business.

He's done.

Although they still get royalty checks
from Mike because his stuff still sells

all over the world.

Yeah, Dave's hand is much deeper in this
at this point than Dan's, for sure.

Dave still travels the world to film
festivals where he's honored, all over

world.

And all the stuff that he does with
Mike, he kind of has an interest in.

But, of course, Mike's collection of
stuff far exceeds just Dan and Dave's

things. I mean, he is amassed.

You know, literally this whole warehouse
full of stuff from all kinds of other

filmmakers as well.

He really is sort of the archaeologist
of smut, I guess

you'd say.

But he's the man for it.

This was funny. You know, you should
comment about the weird little thing

we noticed when we were doing it. Yeah,
there was this weird thread through the

entire movie. There were references to
schools all the way through.

which was funny to us.

And the simplicity of that billboard
that we found right on the way to the

office. On the way to the office, yeah.

Here are the pioneers that allowed
people to put sacks up on a billboard.

Here's the street where they did all
this stuff, and he says they're still

there. They're really not there any
longer. A lot of this, they're pretty

all gone now.

But it's an unknown, fascinating street
in film history there.

Yeah, and it's so nondescript, and that
was kind of interesting, the way, you

know, you can have these fond memories
anywhere.

You know, and these guys, we turned onto
Cordova Street, and it was just, it was

so much of nothing.

But they hadn't been there in a long
time. They hadn't been there in a long

time. And I've been back there since,
and I've seen that, you know, in this

here where it reveals the fact that
their den of iniquity has become a

church.

You know, I've been back there on
weekdays, and I've looked over, you

cruised by there, and I see, you know.

You know, it's kids smoking joints in
the alcove in front of the office that's

the Korean church. You realize it's
another world.

This was a going place when they were
there.

And there was a lot of film business
going on around this street. I mean,

had offices very nearby.

This street was sort of a transport area
for the major studios. Like, the prints

would ship out of this street to the
theaters for Disney and stuff like that.

it was sort of an industrial side of the
movie business.

The popcorn manufacturer, I mean, where
they would make giant bags of popcorn

and ship them to the theaters.

That's kind of where this was at the
time. And, of course, what they did, you

know, they made them there.

because Dan's father actually built
this. Yeah, he bought this property and

built the soundstage and everything
right there. And again, that's where

made their money. I mean, the Sunnies
would rent the facilities to Disney. I

mean, Disney was his tenant.

See, there's the school thing again.

It popped up everywhere we went. These
guys were talking about the dirty

racket. It seemed to be they were
standing right across the street from an

elementary school.

We kind of knew when we were shooting
that this was the wind -up.

Didn't really necessarily plan it that
way. In fact, we had shot this scene

before we went over to see Mike Rainey
in the valley.

This was the first place we went to.

But it just seemed in the final analysis
that the idea was that they were going

home. I mean, we know that these two
greats are in the sunset years.

They walked up and down the street
reminiscing, and it just seemed like an

emotional departure point.

I mean, I was hoping that in this last
shot, when they're walking away,

that one might catch the metaphor, if
you will, of them walking off into the

sunset. It's over. The days are gone.

In a way, when people come up to me and
say, yeah, they actually cried when they

walked away.

then then then that makes me feel good
because that's that was what the

intention was because it kind of it
because i've obviously we've grown fond

them oh yeah and this walking away has a
deep deep meaning for me and what it

all represents and you know we get the
movies often called a loving look or a

valentine

But it really is. I mean, personally, I
think we needed to make a movie about

people we liked. You spend three, four
years on something, ultimately, with

marketing and planning.

You better like your subjects.

And they were great here at the end. I
mean, they didn't realize this was going

to be the last shot in the picture. But
just their dialogue as they walk away,

it just had such the right tone.

So, just technically, we shot it on
MiniDV with the X -01 when it first came

out. We worked out the story over a four
-month period on Final Cut Pro on a G3

Apple computer.

And we got the story worked out, then we
took it over to Keith's place, Motion

Arts. We bumped it directly from the,
you know, we took it off the G3 back

MiniDV, and we took that little MiniDV
tape.

and dubbed it to Digi -Beta, which is
the highest format quality you can get,

and then did the finishing work there
and the color correction and inserted

film footage simply because we wanted to
stay on a time schedule to get to the

finish line.

And that's pretty much how we produced
the movie.

So it was done in ways that hadn't been
done before, really.

And it was really sort of in the spirit
of the way in which they made their

movies, which we sort of realized in
horror as we went through the production

it. And now in the marketing, too.

We're just sort of, you know, using the
new technology to go back to the old

ways and keep it independent in the true
sense of the word.

But it's been a lot of fun. And, you
know, we got a couple of real good

friendships out of it with Dave and Ben.
It's been a real pleasure.

Absolutely. And it was, you know, making
a movie on your desktop.

Yeah, desktop to big screen.

It's pretty extraordinary.

We used the Avid only to get the film
clips in real fast because we just had

get it done. We could have done it on
Final Cut if we had the time.

But you can do it now. You can do this
at home in your spare time if you've got

a lot of money to lose.

But thanks, Eddie.

Thank you, Ted. Thanks for watching.
Bye.