Original subtitles

MATT DUFFER: We're from Durham, North Carolina.

Growing up we were just nerdy kids

playing Dungeons and Dragons with our friends.

ROSS DUFFER: We always loved films

and we wanted to do that for a living,

but we had no idea how to make that possible.

How do you get from the suburbs of North Carolina

to where we are now in Hollywood, making

a show for Netflix?

MATT DUFFER: So around third grade,

our parents for Christmas gave us a Hi8 video camera.

We were really excited about this.

Starting in the summer of the fourth grade,

that's kind of when everything changed.

We made our first full length movie.

We will fight honorably.

And one more thing, onward to battle!

ROSS DUFFER: Then when we moved in to high school,

we said, is there a way to make these movies even better?

So what we would do is every summer

we would actually start to write some scripts down

and this was our first instance of us writing scripts.

I made it.

MATT DUFFER: And that continued all the way into college.

We went to Film School at Chapman University.

We were still mostly focused on directing.

We realized at a certain point that no one

was going to let us direct anything if we

didn't have a script that we could attach ourselves to.

Forget about it.

MATT DUFFER: So we took some screenwriting classes,

we learned the basics of screenwriting.

Structure, inciting incident.

We started to learn some big ideas about how

to write a screenplay.

But father, you're a man of science.

And a man of reason.

MATT DUFFER: So there was a big turning point for us

and that was after we had struggled

for a while in a couple of scripts,

we weren't getting anywhere with them.

And a lot of this was because we were focused on what

we thought the industry wanted.

What was selling in the moment, what people were excited about.

We just cut out all the noise and we just

wrote something that was really personal to us.

The story was called "Hidden," and it

was about a family that was hiding in a bomb shelter

from some mysterious threat above the surface.

And we did something which we hadn't really

been doing, which because of the time crunch,

because of the financial pressures, we just sat down

and we're like, we better figure out this story before we

go into writing it.

And we outlined it.

And when we outlined it, the outline worked and then

we wrote the script incredibly fast.

It just fell into place and "Hidden," was born.

It sold in a bidding war to Warner Brothers

and we were suddenly back on our feet

and feeling confident again.

ROSS DUFFER: There are many ups and downs over that,

but that was a huge hurdle.

We didn't even know how to write a screenplay to suddenly we

had sold a screenplay and we had made money

with just words that we have written on paper.

That night we went to get a meal and I

remember it was such a big moment for us

that we were able to order soda with our meals,

because prior to that we could only afford really

water with any of our meals.

To me it was Thai iced tea at the local Thai restaurant,

that we were able to do that.

Like, Thai iced tea, please.

Also I felt a little bit like sheepish about it,

but it was like, oh man, this is a really good Thai iced tea.

It was a huge moment, we're like OK, this is it.

We've made it.

But the big take away from us was write something

that you're passionate about.

Write something that you truly love, not something

that you think other people are going to love.

And outline, outline, outline, outline, plan, plan, plan.

But there was a shift in the industry around the time

and there were a lot of producers

that kept going, hey, well, that's an OK movie idea,

but do you have a TV idea?

And so there was really a move towards television

becoming more cinematic and that started to get us excited.

And so we started to go, well, you know what?

Maybe this is a type of storytelling

that we could get into and that's

what led us to eventually develop "Montauk," which

is the pilot script that would eventually

become "Stranger Things."

MATT DUFFER: It ended up selling to Netflix,

and that moment, receiving that call that Netflix was not

only buying our script, but was greenlighting it to series,

and that they were comfortable with Ross and I directing it,

was probably the best moment of my life.

This class is really for anyone who dreams of telling stories

for a living.

It's for the person who has 20 scripts in their drawer, none

of which have sold.

It's for the person who has only written 20 pages of a script

and hasn't been able to get past the 20 pages.

Or is just staring at a blank screen

and they can't write a single word.

You've got the idea, but you don't know what to do with it.

It's also for people who, like us, don't

know a single soul in Hollywood and want

to see how this works and see if this is something

that maybe you could actually do and you can make a reality.

MATT DUFFER: This class is also for people

who just love "Stranger Things," and want

to see how we created the show, how we built it from an idea

all the way through the script.

To show you how it works, we're

going to go into documents and things we wrote.

Netflix has never seen it.

Our actors have never seen it.

So we're going to be showing you those top secret "Stranger

Things" documents for the first time.

ROSS DUFFER: We'll use examples from "Stranger Things,"

from the pilot all the way through stuff from season 4.

Bitching, right?

Yeah, yeah, bitching.

MATT DUFFER: So something else we're

going to do to show you how this process works is

we're going to create our own fake Dustin and Steve "Stranger

Things" spin-off series.

This is imaginary, it's just for this class,

but we're going to generate the idea in real time

for you and we're going to write the opening hook

and under extreme time constraints,

and hopefully it's going to be some fun.

This is not a real thing, Netflix.

ROSS DUFFER: We love writing, it is a fun process.

Yes, it is frustrating at times, it gets scary at times,

you get stuck.

It doesn't feel like you're ever going to get unstuck sometimes,

but what we try to do with this class is show you

our process because this is what we found

has made writing as smooth as possible and as fun as

possible.

I'm going to be a little dramatic here.

Right here we cut to black.

Hey, I'm Ross.

I'm Matt.

Together, we're the Duffer brothers.

And this is "MasterClass."

The first stage of development is coming up with your idea,

or what we like to call just sort of the big idea.

And this is, honestly, one of the most crucial things

you're going to do in the whole process, if not the most

crucial.

Because assuming this goes well, you're

going to be working with this idea for potentially years,

or in our case, we've been doing it now seven years

with "Stranger Things."

So you're going to want an idea that really gets you excited

and really inspires you.

I think it is a mistake a lot of people

make in that they sort of--

they're so excited to write a script

and have a script that they kind of go, well,

that idea sounds good.

Let me just start to write it.

I mean, we've certainly made that mistake,

where we've started writing an idea--

there's something good just conceptually wrong

with the idea, or the idea itself is not exciting enough,

and there's nothing you can do.

You know you could waste a year or two years

working on something that is actually just the problem is

that the very first stage.

So it's important that this first stage you get right,

and you're working on an idea that you're really, really

excited about you.

Have to have a ton of passion for it, because best case

scenario, you know, like in the case of "Stranger Things,"

it works, and people like it, and then you

could be working on it for a decade.

So make sure you love this idea.

This is a difficult part of the process to talk about,

but the way we work, in terms of coming up with that big idea,

is we just start throwing a ton of ideas at the wall,

and we're just seeing what sticks.

And I think sometimes, people make the mistake of going,

well, they're looking around at the shows or the movies that

are popular right now.

The classic, back when we were growing up,

was this is going to be like "Die Hard,"

but I'm going to put it in a different location--

"Die Hard" on a bus.

But that worked.

"Die Hard" on a bus worked, but don't let that throw you off.

So really, I think what you want to do

is just think about what excites you.

A lot of it should be more personal than that.

I think the problem with looking around at what's popular

and riffing on that is that may not have

any personal meaning to you.

It's just what's popular, what's in the zeitgeist now,

but that is changing so rapidly.

I remember when we were coming up in college,

we wanted to sell a script.

The big thing was found footage.

Right?

So I found footage is not much of a thing anymore,

and we were never huge fans of found footage.

But we suddenly found ourselves trying to write a found footage

movie, and we didn't really care about found footage.

Because we didn't have a lot of passion for it,

the lack of passion translated to bad scripts.

So I think an epiphany that we had was--

and it seems so obvious now, but it wasn't to us at the time--

was just kind of cut out all the noise.

Stop reading "Variety" and Deadline and all the Hollywood

trades and obsessing over what's selling,

and just focus on what you love, what you grew up loving,

what you love now.

Maybe it's something personal as a family,

a story from your family.

Or in our case, like our first movie script

that sold was called "Hidden," and it

was set in a bomb shelter.

We had a friend growing up in North Carolina,

and he had a bomb shelter in his backyard.

And we made a little short film set in this bomb shelter.

So we always thought, hey, you know,

wouldn't it be cool to set an entire movie

Inside of a bomb shelter?

Like that would be challenging but fun,

and it was based on this experience

we had as kids in this bomb shelter

that scared the living hell out of us.

So it's a sort of combination where

you're pulling from your life, but part of your life--

it certainly was for Matt and I--

is we grew up loving movies.

And so we're looking at those movies,

and we're looking at what inspired us about that,

and then you're combining that with your experiences growing

up.

Or in the case of "Stranger Things," a lot of it

is based around our friendships we had

and the amazing times we had when we were kids, growing up

and our summers hanging out with our friends.

[INTERPOSING VOICES]

We certainly didn't encounter any monsters

or other dimensions, but that friendship

became such a core of that idea.

So I think it's a mix of those two things, or it's something

that you're very obsessive about.

For instance, Matt and I love a good conspiracy theory.

I remember in high school, we made a short film

about the Philadelphia project, and we love the JFK conspiracy.

So we're sort of a little bit of conspiracy nuts,

and we like looking at all that stuff, which led us--

we'll get into it later-- but it led us

to the "Montauk" project, which led directly

to "Stranger Things."

So it could be just something in your life.

There's another advantage to choosing

something that's a little bit more personal, which is that

it--

especially if this is an early screenplay that you're writing.

Maybe it's your first screenplay.

Maybe it's your second or third, or whatever it is,

but certainly, we found it easier

if it's something that we're familiar with, if it's

populated with characters or a location or setting

that we're somewhat familiar with.

It's just easier to write, so you don't

have to do a year of research.

That is a way to go, and there's nothing wrong with that.

If you want to do like say a historical screenplay,

go for it.

I just would discourage you from doing that maybe

on your first screenplay.

I mean, knock yourself out.

It's just you're going to require

a lot of additional work and a lot of additional--

and as you're learning sort of the fundamentals of writing

and the fundamentals of how to write dialogue,

it's just so much easier if you can

tap into voices that you are more intimately familiar with.

Even on season one of "Stranger Things,"

we felt so much more comfortable writing the voices of the kids.

Just those scenes wrote themselves very quickly for us.

A shadow grows in the wall behind you,

swallowing you in darkness.

It is almost here.

What is it?

What if it's the demogorgon?

Oh, Jesus, we're so screwed if it's the demogorgon.

It's not the demogorgon.

An army of troglodytes charge into the chamber.

Troglodytes?

Told you.

ROSS DUFFER: It was harder for us to write the scientist.

So you'll notice on season one, Dr. Brenner doesn't talk a lot,

and that's OK.

I think leaning into your strengths

and what you're good at, and like Matt's saying,

particularly for this first script, is a great idea.

I think the goal really needs to be

telling a simple story which is much more difficult than it

seems.

It should seem easy when someone ultimately reads your script,

like this just came out of you.

But it's a process even to tell a simple, clean story that

moves from A to B to C to D.

One fun thing about pulling from things you love

is it gives you an excuse to watch TV shows and movies

and even rewatch things that maybe you've

seen a dozen times, just to look at how it's done,

and also try to find some inspiration in there.

It's like the best homework ever.

It's true, and I don't think you even have

to limit yourself to movies.

I mean, if you're really into video games,

some board games now have amazing narratives.

I mean, just continue to consume that stuff.

And do big movies, small movies, whatever.

You know, the big shows everyone's watching,

the small shows, even stuff that doesn't work is helpful.

And for us, it may just be like a kernel of an idea.

I remember for the first script that we

wrote that actually really worked

and that sold, the one that Matt had referred

to that was set in a bomb shelter

called "Hidden," the movie that sparked

that was a very small independent film

called "Monsters," which is directed by Gareth Edwards who

would go on to direct "Godzilla" and "Rogue One."

But what really inspired us about "Monsters"

is he went out, and he made a very small movie

for not a lot of money, and it did

have this supernatural stuff that we loved.

And it had giant monsters, because we're children

at heart, so we love that.

But at the heart of that movie really was a relationship.

Gareth was able to tell a story with a huge scope,

but tell it very intimately, and we

decided we wanted to try to do something in that vein.

And then two other movies that really inspired us

that were also in that vein were David Fincher's "Panic Room"

and M. Night Shyamalan's "Signs,"

and these are all films that really spoke to us.

And when we started to rewatch them and break it down,

what we realized is that what was really

the connective tissue here was they were big ideas.

But at the heart of them, just like in "Monsters,"

it was really just about these families.

"Panic Room" was about a mom and her daughter,

and "Signs" was about a family, and specifically man

who's who was sort of broken in that family healing

over the course of that movie.

And so we go, even though there are these huge ideas--

you know, aliens, robbers, giant monsters--

the heart of those movies isn't really about that.

It's about something else.

That is the kind of story that we wanted to tell--

ordinary meets extraordinary.

So you can look at it like that, and you can break it down.

And I mean, it's very broad, ordinary

meets the extraordinary, but it was the type of film

that we hadn't seen a lot of out there.

And that's ultimately what led to "Hidden," the bomb shelter

movie, as we're calling it and then and then, ultimately,

"Stranger Things."

So I think it's important, as you're

watching these movies that love and inspire you

to try to break down, maybe there

is something that's connecting all of these things you love.

Maybe there's sort of a thread that runs through all of them,

and I think identifying what that

is could help you identify what kind of story you want to tell.

It's normal and good, in fact, to take inspiration

from these people who have mastered

the art of storytelling, who have come before you.

Right?

And look at what they did, look at what is successful,

and then take your own personal experience

and sort of overlay that on top.

And hopefully, you're bringing your own point of view.

You're not trying to emulate, but you're

trying to take the spirit of what they did

and infuse it with something that's

very unique to you, which is your own personality

and your own personal history.

And your own voice.

And your own, yeah, your own voice.

As you're searching for this big idea,

one thing that's really important to keep in mind

is drive.

I think every story needs sort of a core drive,

and if you've read any screenwriting

book or heard any screenwriter talk,

you're probably sick of hearing this,

but the idea of a core drive, the idea that there's

a character who wants something and is having difficulty

getting it, it's true.

I mean, you really do need that in order to propel your story,

in order for the story to work.

You know, listen, you can have the most beautiful characters

in the world, but what is getting the reader

to just continue to turn the pages.

And by drive we don't mean-- it doesn't

have to be save the planet.

I mean, it doesn't have to be a Marvel-level drive.

It can be a very small drive.

Like in the sense of a romantic comedy,

it's winning over the boy, winning

over the girl, whatever it is.

If you don't have a drive, it'd be

like building a car without an engine.

Right?

It's just not going to run very well.

People are not going to get past page three, four,

or five, whatever it is.

If you look at "Hidden," it's a very simple drive.

Right?

It's actually kind of built into the title of the piece.

It's called hidden.

The goal of the film, the drive is, to remain hidden.

So we have characters in a bomb shelter.

They're trying to stay hidden.

Something alerts the outside presence, these bad guys above,

that perhaps they're in the vicinity.

And the goal for them is to remain

hidden throughout the film.

So it's a very, very basic, simple drive.

But our very first script that got us an agent--

and we'll go into that more later--

was something called "Origin."

Our main character woke up, and this

was in the midst of a pandemic.

And he realized he was infected.

He was sick, and he had two hours to try to cure himself.

Very simple goal-- he is going to die

at the end of this script, if he's not able to find a cure.

It's a very simple drive, and your characters

are trying to achieve that goal.

Like Matt saying, they want something.

They're having difficulty getting it.

They want to stay hidden.

They're having difficulty staying hidden.

Why are they having difficulty staying hidden?

Because we, as the writers, are going

to continue to throw obstacles in their way to staying hidden.

So every time they're going to solve one obstacle that they're

like, phew, maybe we're hidden now,

there's going to be something else that happens,

that's going to actually make their situation even worse.

They're going to solve that, but then something else

is going to happen that's going to make

it even harder to stay hidden.

And it's just going to continue to sort of build and snowball

and escalate, in this way, you have the audiences

keep turning the pages.

In the course of "Stranger Things,"

everyone's learning more and more,

but it keeps getting more and more complicated.

Finally, they have the puzzle pieces,

and you lead to the climax, but you've

got to keep throwing these obstacles in the way.

But the obstacles aren't going to exist,

if we don't understand what your main characters are actually

trying to get, what their goal is, what their drive is.

But like it's not just about plot.

I think that's a mistake.

If you're thinking, OK, well, this just

sounds very plot-driven, but it actually

involves character and character building.

The way that your characters resolve or overcome

these obstacles is going to reveal

a lot about who they are.

The methods they use to resolve those obstacles

reveals who they are.

If you think about "Stranger Things,"

that's how you learn who these characters are.

Obviously, "Stranger Things," there's a lot going on in it.

Right?

But when you really boil it down, Will is missing,

and we want to find Will again.

It's a very simple drive.

Finding a story and finding a drive

is really the most basic, fundamental aspect

of storytelling.

Let's talk a little bit about how do you

brainstorm your idea?

So we talked about you can pull from your life.

It's more of an art than a science, brainstorming is.

I think it's good to let your mind wander a little bit.

This is not something that you can force.

So one thing that Ross and I like to do a lot

is listen to music.

We don't like listening to music with lyrics.

We like listening to movie music.

I've always loved movie music.

The lyrics get my head, whatever.

I mean, this is going to be very personal to you,

but the good thing about listening to music

is you can kind of let your mind wander a little bit.

You don't want to force it too much.

There's other techniques.

A lot of the good ideas that we've had

have come when we're not trying to think too hard about them.

They'll come when you're driving to work.

They'll come when you're taking a shower.

I mean, all of those are good ways of coming up with it.

Ross and I, it helps that there's two of us.

It works with just one person as well, but we like to walk.

There's something about walking that gets the juices flowing

in your brain.

I think it's very difficult, if you just sit down

in front of your computer, and you're looking

at a blank computer page.

And you're like, OK, what is my movie idea?

That's going to be really tricky.

That's going to be more helpful,

once you have the idea, and you're developing it further.

But for this initial big idea, it is, like Matt saying,

it's a tricky thing to teach.

There's no right or wrong way.

You're going to have your own process.

But again, I think if you just try

to sit down in front of a computer and force it,

you're probably just going to get frustrated.

We've certainly done that many times.

We've gotten frustrated many times.

But I think it is important to give yourself

some time and space to come up with the idea.

Even though it is potentially one, two, three sentences,

that can take a lot of time.

So it seems very easy, but the idea is not.

I mean, the idea is everything.

So it's going to take some time, and when

we step through kind of exactly how we came up with "Stranger

Things," you'll see that it was kind of developed,

this idea over the course of--

how many years?

Five?

Five years.

Five years.

Something like that.

In terms of the whole process of writing,

arguably coming up with a big idea is the most important.

Again, take your time with this.

Be patient with it.

Think back on your life, the things

that you love, your memories growing up as children,

your friends, maybe this story your neighbor told you,

pull from these things.

Pull from works of art you love.

Take your time.

Come up with a bunch of ideas.

A lot of them are going to be bad.

We write down so many bad ideas.

You'll see some of them.

You'll see some of them.

We throw so many things at the wall, and so many of them

don't stick, and that's OK.

You're going to feel it, when you have that idea that just

gets you excited and like you want to sit down and write it

right now.

I think you're going to feel it.

We certainly have.

When we haven't felt it, and we've tried to force it,

or maybe it's a half-formed idea,

it's missing some important element

and we've tried to write it and force it,

that ends up just wasting a lot of time.

Because you're just-- there's something conceptually wrong.

So you want to try to wait.

It's not a science.

It's going to be different every time.

So I think the first assignment for this class

is probably the best assignment, the most fun assignment.

Definitely.

Which is just watch some of your favorite stuff.

Watch some of your favorite movies.

Watch some of your favorite shows, whatever it is you want.

Read some of your favorite comic books, whatever it is.

Or your favorite books, I mean,

that'll take a little bit longer than watching stuff,

but whatever it is.

And then try to identify what is the connective tissue

between the stuff that you love?

Is there a connective tissue?

Is there something unique about your taste?

Is there a reason that you're drawn

to those particular stories?

See if you can figure out what that is.

And again, for us, it was ordinary meets extraordinary.

It doesn't have-- it can be something very simple.

It can be just one simple thing that

is connective tissue between all of these things that you love,

and maybe that will help give you your inspiration for what

you're going to write.

Something is coming, something hungry for blood.

[DOG BARKING]

Oh.

[LIGHT BULB ZAPPING]

[STATIC BLIPPING]

The idea for "Stranger Things" actually traces all the way

back to 2010.

At that point, we were in the middle of writing movies.

We wanted to write movies.

We actually sat down and just wrote out--

I think we spent a week or two weeks

just spitballing a lot of movie ideas,

as we were trying to figure out, what

are we going to write next?

And we actually still have this document.

You'll see all the ideas we wrote out.

And we've talked about this a little bit before,

but you're going to throw out a lot of ideas.

A lot of them are not going to be good.

And even the idea that is "Stranger Things"

or would turn out to become "Stranger Things" was not

good in the 2010 iteration.

There was a kernel there.

But even then in 2010, we didn't realize

that that kernel was there.

It just sort of sat there.

We put it away in a drawer, and we didn't look at it for years.

And, again, this is why even ideas that you might not think

are good or whatever, keep a record of them,

don't lose them.

Email them to yourself.

Keep them on Google Docs or whatever program

you're using, because you never know, years from now,

it may come back and actually prove

to be an important part of an idea, a puzzle

piece of an idea that you're working on,

which is what happened with "Stranger Things."

So we're going to show you now this 2010 document

where we came up with a bunch of different movie ideas.

I don't think we've shown this to anyone

outside of our parents and a few close friends back in 2010.

Some of these ideas, like Matt said,

are not the best in the world.

But, again, that's part of the process.

So let's take a look at this document.

MATT DUFFER: Yeah, screenplay ideas from-- this

is-- it looks like November 22 from 2010.

We have a movie idea for something called

Make-A-Monster.

That's not a good title.

ROSS DUFFER: "In the near future,

advancements in genetic engineering

allow for the designing of unique domesticated pets.

For example, a website called Design-A-Dog

allows you to mix breeds to create

your own personalized puppy."

And then this young boy named Liam finds a company

to actually make a monster, which is you combine DNA

from different animals, and he creates his own monster,

which, of course, then ends up turning

into a bit of a nightmare.

Uh.

Uh.

You know, whatever.

I don't know.

There's a reason that was--

I give it--

--shoved into a drawer.

But if one of you want to run with that idea, go for it.

I give it-- but you know what?

Here's what is interesting, though,

about this Make-A-Monster idea.

So we love the idea of a kid raising a monster, right?

So it-- or we liked some aspects of it, right?

It feels a little like "Gremlins"-y.

And the spirit of that kind of wound up in "Stranger Things"

Season 2, when we had Dustin have--

ROSS DUFFER: That's true.

MATT DUFFER: --raising Dart.

[GROWLING]

Mediocre idea, mediocre title, but there were elements of it

that we ended up using, like, however many years later, eight

years later.

So--

Then the second idea--

--you never know.

--we've got is Frame 285.

MATT DUFFER: Better title.

ROSS DUFFER: Better title.

I think better idea.

There's some logical issues with this one.

We-- like we said earlier, we love conspiracy theories.

We're particularly obsessed with the JFK conspiracy theory.

So-- or conspiracy theories, I should say.

So this is really about there's a missing frame in the Zapruder

film, which is Frame 285.

And so the idea is that this missing frame is actually

the key to solving JFK's murder.

So the idea is that this is, again--

I think we mentioned this earlier.

We were trying to write some found footage stuff,

because that was in back then, which was a mistake, because we

don't even like found footage.

So the idea is that it's the babushka lady.

She's filming the assassination.

And people basically want to come after and get this footage

from her, because it shows who the real, true perpetrators

are.

And so it's found footage with these assassins

coming after this family.

It's not a terrible idea, but the problem with the idea

is how do you do a found footage movie when it was--

with 19-- I think that was set in 1963.

You know what I mean?

That was where-- we ran into some,

like, real conceptual problems.

It's not terrible.

It's definitely better than Make-A-Monster.

Amidst these, like, whatever sea level ideas, mediocre ideas,

we have something called The Montauk Experiment.

Again, just like Frame 285, it was a found footage idea.

Found footage was all the rage, so we were like, we better

write a found footage idea.

And this was based on--

The Montauk Project, this is based on a true life

conspiracy.

It's set in Montauk, Long Island, Air Force base.

This is something we read about in high school,

and I think we stumbled across it when we were--

Doing that--

We were doing, like, a small documentary

for school about the Philadelphia Experiment.

We read about the Montauk Project.

We became obsessed with it.

And the idea was the US government

was conducting these sort of top secret experiments in this lab,

and some weird stuff had gone down.

What we liked about this conspiracy,

that there was a lot of flexibility in terms

of what could happen there.

I mean, there were talks about time travel.

There were talk about-- there was a discussion about monsters

being unleashed, experimenting on civilians who developed

psionic or psychic abilities.

So there was a lot--

the sandbox was really cool.

But that's--

We were always excited by the sandbox of what The Montauk

Project could offer us.

And, really, when you boil it down, what it--

it is from the scientist's point of view because it's-- this is

a found footage version of this story.

But there's a protagonist who they're studying,

who's basically the only known test subject who survived.

And this really became the prototype for Eleven,

because this is a test subject who survived,

who was one of many test subjects

who developed psychic abilities due to tests by the government.

So if that sounds familiar to you,

then you've clearly watched "Stranger Things."

And so it's like, I think the question is, like, why

didn't we write it in?

We didn't write it in because, again, I

think it was the found footage aspect of it.

We didn't know really how to write found footage.

We always struggled whenever we tried to go to page

and write a found footage story.

So we could just never crack it.

We didn't know-- we didn't really

understand how storytelling worked as a found footage.

And also, it was so much about the scientists

and the way they did it, which, again, we do

see flashbacks in Season 1 to the testing and stuff

they've done with Eleven.

But we just couldn't get that excited about telling

the entire story set within a lab like that.

MATT DUFFER: So we put these ideas away.

We put them in a drawer.

We were not actively thinking about them.

But, again, they're simmering in the back of our brains.

Something might spark for you.

The spark for us was--

occurred three years later, when we saw the Denis Villeneuve

film starring Hugh Jackman, Jake Gyllenhaal,

called "Prisoners," which doesn't

seem to bear a lot of resemblance

to "Stranger Things."

But this is the thing-- this is the movie that sparked it.

So Ross and I were walking out of that movie.

We loved the movie.

We were talking about it.

At the same time, we had seen ads for, like,

"True Detective."

So we were into the idea of, like, a cinematic television

show.

And we started to talk about what

"Prisoners" would have felt like had it

been like "True Detective."

I think one thing when we came out

of it, when we were talking about it,

we just loved these characters.

We loved the Jake Gyllenhaal character.

And we just wanted--

and we loved the Hugh Jackman character.

And we went, well, we had seen these ads for "True Detective,"

and we knew television was starting to become cinematic.

And they felt like these long movies.

And we went, well, I would have loved

to stick around with these characters for another five

or six hours.

Like, that would be cool to tell a long--

this story as a long narrative.

And so that started to--

we started discussing it and said, OK, well,

what if we told a kidnapping story that spanned over, say,

eight hours of time?

Which doesn't seem like-- it's not the most amazing idea ever.

Not groundbreaking, no.

Not groundbreaking, but then we thought, of course,

we still have the nerdy qualities to us,

where we want to go, what if there was an actual monster

in it, not just a serial killer-type monster,

but a real monster in it?

ROSS DUFFER: What if we put a spin

on it, a supernatural spin?

[CLANGING]

We started thinking about poltergeists and all this

and go, well, what if we told this kidnapping story

we were talking about, but what if instead

of a traditional kidnapping, it's a supernatural kidnapping?

So it's really we had those two words that were like, OK, well,

that's starting to get us excited.

It started to be a little bit more interesting.

It was like, OK, we haven't seen that before.

And then what would this supernatural--

ROSS DUFFER: Kidnapping.

What would kick off the supernatural kidnapping?

And that's what led us back to thinking about The Montauk

Project.

In this 2010 document.

In this document from 2010.

What really got us excited then was we

started to think about the time period of that.

The Montauk Project occurred late '70s, early '80s.

And we go, OK, well, this would now

be-- that would dictate the story being

set in the early '80s.

And we were like, OK, that's really interesting--

Yes.

--because then we can kind of pay homage to these films that

we grew up loving, a lot of the sort of films from

the Spielberg era, right?

So that's when you think about "ET,"

you think about "Poltergeist," you think about "Jaws."

And then we got-- then we're like, OK,

now we're actually really on to something.

And that was-- immediately, we go, that's it.

That's the next thing that we're writing.

And I think the beauty, as Matt mentioned earlier,

about the Montauk Project conspiracy is not

a lot is known, so it gives you a lot of flexibility.

There were rumors of kids with psychic powers.

And there were also rumors about monsters coming

through another dimension.

So suddenly, we have these two big ideas floating around,

which is we had psychic powers--

[SCREAMS]

ROSS DUFFER: --we had monsters--

[CRUNCHING]

[ROARING]

[HIGH-PITCHED SCREECHING]

[SHOUTING]

--and we had what "Prisoners" gave us, which is this--

a drive, which you always need, which is a kidnapping.

And this is-- once that all sort of hit,

as we walked out of "Prisoners" and the following morning

when we talked about it, we knew we had an idea.

We had that spark.

We had what we felt--

and, again, it's a little bare bones now,

but we felt we had that big idea that we

had been looking for so long.

And what those two words, supernatural kidnapping,

gave us on top of all of these other ideas

is it gave us a drive, which is what we talked about earlier.

It gives us that glue to hold it together,

because if you really start to break down "Stranger Things,"

there's a lot going on.

It's-- you've got the monster.

You've got the psychic powers.

You've got this broken sheriff.

You've got-- there's a lot of stuff going on.

But what we knew-- and we didn't have all those ideas yet,

but we did have a--

we were starting to come up with some of these ideas.

And we knew that no matter what ideas we came up with,

we had this drive.

We had a missing kid that we had to find.

And we knew no matter what we-- what crazy ideas we

threw at it, we have this glue that would hold it together.

Hopefully, you have something like that in your big idea.

It will certainly make your life a lot easier

as you move forward.

So one thing I think that is important

is to write down your ideas like we did in that 2010 document.

It's good to keep a record of all your old ideas.

You may forget them.

It's fun to come back to them.

Maybe you'll come back to them years later,

something else will spark, right?

These ideas are going to be simmering there.

Maybe you have the next "Jurassic Park."

I don't know.

I think a lot of people think you

have to send it into the WGA or anything like that.

You don't.

Just email it to yourself.

You're covered.

But it's important.

Write it down.

I think also writing down illuminates some things.

Can you write it down in a way?

Does it come across in a written form very clearly?

It should.

If it doesn't, maybe your idea's too complicated or too muddled.

So anyway, take the time.

Write it down.

These don't have to be long descriptions.

If you're reading screenwriting books,

you're going to hear a lot about a logline.

And a logline is usually one to three sentences

which summarize your idea.

Now, what Matt and I do is we write a little bit more just

to see how that story's flowing.

Now, it's still missing a lot of the big details.

But as you saw in that 2010 document,

we like to write sort of a short paragraph, maybe

six to eight sentences.

Just give it a little more just to see how it's feeling.

And that's exactly what we did with "Stranger Things"

before we even sat down to outline it.

We wrote it out in paragraph form.

We sent it to our agent.

And we said, hey, here's our new idea.

What do you think about it?

So this is what we wrote back in 2014 to our agent.

We said, "We're calling it Montauk,

and it's a limited series set in 1980s Montauk, New York."

And we made a little note here.

"Note, Montauk back then was akin to Amity in "Jaws,"

not upscale like today.

The small suburban community is shaken

when a 10-year-old boy vanishes into thin air one night

while biking home.

We follow the boy's friends, family, and teachers

as they try to uncover what happened to him.

We soon realized that the disappearance is somehow

linked to strange happenings in Montauk Air Force Station, home

of the Montauk Project, where a series of secret government

experiments allegedly took place in the late '70s, early '80s.

But the boy's disappearance is just the start,

as stranger, more horrifying, seemingly unexplainable

happenings take place all over town.

And evil has been unleashed here.

Think "Super 8"/'80s Spielberg crossed with vintage Stephen

King, and you'll get the idea."

I do remember specifically you, like,

writing that down in email and going, this sounds really cool.

Like, we were really excited about it.

We were excited to share it with people.

And I think the previous document, the 2010,

we were sort of like, should we send this to people?

I don't know.

We were a little bit embarrassed about some of the ideas.

This one, we were like, man, I really

want to send this right away, and how could someone not

find this cool?

Because we-- it was just-- to us,

it was all the coolest stuff in the world.

And even though this is a little more than a logline,

this is a little more than a couple sentences,

it is very vague at this point.

We say "friends, family, teachers."

There's no mention of anyone remotely resembling Eleven.

There's no mention of a sheriff.

There's no mention of the boy's mom.

This is a really--

again, don't stress out.

You're going to be missing a lot of the big details right now.

That's going to be--

we're going to get into that a little bit later.

It's OK to be vague.

This is really just about that big idea, that big concept.

It's OK to be vague.

You don't even have to have your characters yet.

We certainly didn't.

It's not going to be fully formed now.

But as you can see, that does kind

of capture the essence and spirit of the show,

despite having very few details.

So good to start broad.

Very simple.

Baby steps.

So now we've got our laptops out.

We're going to show you how to take that big idea

and write it into a digestible short paragraph

that you can send to your friends.

You can send to your agent, whatever you want.

In order to do this, we're going to use a made up idea.

We talked about doing a fake Dustin Steve spinoff.

This is not a real thing, Netflix.

This is a fake--

this is a fake idea.

It's super undercooked.

It's underdeveloped.

Dustin and Steve, of course, are two

of the characters from "Stranger Things" who you may know.

They work really great as kind of buddies.

They're always often paired together,

so they're fun to write.

So we thought, hey, if we're gonna write a spin off

involving "Stranger Things" characters,

why not write it involving Steve and Dustin?

So--

Here we go.

I guess we'll do it.

All right.

And we-- I guess we've cheated a little bit.

We don't have a ton of time, so we've

kind of pre come up with a little bit-- a few ideas

as it relates to Steve and Dustin, the deepfake Steve

and Dustin spinoff.

ROSS DUFFER: So we do everything in--

MATT DUFFER: In Google Docs.

ROSS DUFFER: For us, writing together,

it's a great way for us to collaborate and just be

both writing at the same time.

Again, this is gonna completely depend on your process.

So--

When I'd normally be doing this,

I would probably have headphones on.

I would be listening to music, but it feels, like, pretty

antisocial and uncinematic.

So I'm gonna--

I'm not gonna have headphones on while I'm doing this.

So what we were thinking about with Steve

and Dustin is when we were talking about what

that spinoff could be, one thing that we haven't really

had time to explore in the show is where is Dustin's dad,

and that was sort of the question

that we're talking about a couple of days ago.

They go, well, that could be interesting as a starting off

point to explore in terms of putting-- getting them

on an adventure.

So, you know, our initial thought is, okay, what if--

and this is about as far as it's been developed--

what if Dustin--

Dustin, after the events of season three,

say, what if he's feeling emotional about what happened

and he wants to go and visit his dad before high school starts.

So visit his dad who doesn't live in Hawkins, so--

and, of course, Steve has just lost his job

because the mall and Scoops Ahoy burned down,

and so he convinces Steve to go with them.

That's sort of the starting off point for the idea.

And Dustin doesn't have--

doesn't have a car.

He doesn't have a car, right, right.

Who else is he gonna go to?

Well, he's gonna go to Steve, so, you know, it works.

And I think what we also like about the dad in terms

of this made up idea is that the dad can give us sort

of an emotional core to this.

I think it's something emotional,

Dustin dealing with his issues with his dad,

and, of course, Steve also while his dad

isn't a character in the show, he also

has issues with his dad.

So I think it's something that we could use this storyline

to sort explore those issues and give it

in an emotional core, which I think could be, you know,

interesting.

But, again, you know, this is very basic.

What Ross said there is almost all you need in terms of--

Yeah, I don't know.

The emotion of the idea.

I don't know what their arc is or anything,

but I know that there are something there

that could certainly be--

But you'll see as Ross is kind of talking,

I'm just sort of jotting down what he's talking about--

just-- it's fine.

It's gonna be really sketchy, there's

going to be typos, dashes, whatever, so this is

Dustin Steve spinoff.

Dustin's dad, where is he?

It's Dustin's goal.

Dustin's goal is to find his dad.

ROSS DUFFER: Well, that's his initial--

MATT DUFFER: Initial goal.

Yeah.

ROSS DUFFER: Initial goal.

That's obviously-- we're not going to just write a road trip

movie with Dustin and Steve although I

suppose that could be fun in a "Little Miss Sunshine" way.

But this is in the world of "Stranger Things"--

MATT DUFFER: This is not the drive--

ROSS DUFFER: So this is not the drive.

That's just sort of what kicks off the journey,

but it's not the drive.

The drive would really kick in when

they get to the dad's house.

Now it-- would be not-- the story would

kind of end if the dad was just there, right.

So let's say where's-- where do we say the dad lives?

Does he live in Arizona, or is it somewhere else?

Yeah, let's see he-- is it-- yeah, he should--

Let's say he's Arizona.

Now dad isn't there, right.

He can't be there.

He can't be there.

The story would end.

Dad is not in Arizona.

So the goal right here, this initial thing is still--

it's still-- they're still in-- there's

an obstacle here instantly.

Where is the dad?

Where is the dad?

Where is the dad?

Well, maybe what we were talking about

is that the dad is like Dustin.

He's quirky.

He goes off on his adventures unknown because why

is the dad not here.

Why is the dad not with his son?

Well, maybe the dad has his own issues,

and he's more interested in going off on his own adventures

than he is in raising his son.

And maybe that's why he left his family.

So there.

Now we've got--

Well, it's-- we can think about a little bit like,

you know, "Last Crusade."

Sure.

Indy's dad.

How I get inspirations, yes.

Right, yes.

Yeah.

So, yes, Indy's dad is a sort of a good inspiration that he

wasn't--

Sean Connery was not there for Harrison Ford growing up.

So what we were thinking about is

when we were talking about this, it felt a little

like we wanted to get away from Hawkins, which

means it probably shouldn't involve anything

with the upside down, and we certainly

don't want to get 11 involved.

This really what we wanted this spinoff to be for this class

is really just focused on Steve and Dustin.

So we were talking about what kind of story

would be fun to see these two characters

that we love so much on.

Of course, thinking back on the movie--

the movies we love.

One of them is--

and you've seen the inspiration in "Stranger Things"

if you've watched the show which is "The Goonies."

So "Goonies" is a big inspiration that was as a kid,

we would just watch it over and over and over again.

It's one of our favorite movies growing up.

So we thought it would be fun to do something

in that vein in the vein of basically treasure.

What if-- what if--

what if-- what if that's what the dad is looking

at, just in the same way that Indy's dad is going looking

for some artifact that is of great importance, in that case,

the Holy Grail.

What if in this case, the dad is looking

for some sort of treasure, something he's been obsessed

about his whole life.

So I did a quick little Google, and this came up

which is Superstition Mountains, which is in Arizona.

There's something called Lost Dutchman State Park,

and apparently that there is something

called Lost Dutchman's mine.

These are all great names by the way.

So there's this lost Dutchman's mine,

and there's a guy named Adolf Ruth who's

an amateur explorer and treasure hunter in the '30s.

And he went off looking for this mine, and in this mine

apparently is a lot of treasure.

Everyone's looked for it.

They can't find it.

But what if, you know, what if Dustin's dad thinks

he found this mine.

What if--

MATT DUFFER: Or Dustin's dad followed in Adolf's footsteps.

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah, exactly, in search of this mine.

MATT DUFFER: Right.

ROSS DUFFER: So that's where Steve and Dustin, who

knows how they find out that this

is maybe where the dad went.

We don't need to know that right now.

MATT DUFFER: They find a treasure map.

ROSS DUFFER: Maybe they don't have the map yet.

Maybe they just heard from a neighbor

that he's obsessed with this, whatever.

It gives them--

Yeah, a treasure map's probably too obvious.

It's too obvious.

We're writing a series here.

We're writing a series, not a movie.

So you'd probably be something that

would lead to something that would lead to the treasure map.

Again, we don't have to figure that out.

So I think Dustin's goal is to find the dad.

I think maybe this is the drive--

I think it is the drive.

Is to find the dad, not the treasure.

[INAUDIBLE]

Steve's goal is to find the dad and the treasure

because Steve--

ROSS DUFFER: Well, he lost his job at Scoops Ahoy.

No, but he--

I mean, Steve's gonna be into the treasure.

Like, Steve's gonna want the treasure.

Like, that's why he's going to be motivated to stay here

and journey into this mine even though he's

gonna be concerned about the dangers involved.

He's gonna want the treasure at the end.

So that's gonna be-- actually it becomes Steve's main thing,

main goal.

And what I like about this, again,

this is all a little silly, but what I do like about it

is that we've got the emotional core of Dustin

going to get his dad.

And we've also got the fun element of the treasure,

and we know that it's danger because Adolf died.

We don't know how.

His dad has probably been missing.

Right.

MATT DUFFER: Yeah, Dustin's dad is missing.

ROSS DUFFER: He's missing and he's

been missing for a period of time that

makes us nervous about him.

I mean, he's a kooky guy, right.

He probably-- like, I feel like he goes--

you know, he goes off, they lose track of them all the time,

so Dustin's mom may know about this, may not mention him,

and may just not have been in touch with him at all.

So he could really be miss-- properly missing.

I think it needs to be long enough that Dustin's concerned.

Dustin is really worried about his dad,

and there's some humor here in that Steve is mostly

excited about the treasure.

I can already see those scenes playing out

in sort of a fun way.

I think that's how Dustin could convince Steve to stay.

Now there's nothing in my googling

that says there's anything super--

supernatural happening in Superstition Mountain,

but it is called Superstition Mountain.

And why haven't we found this mine before?

Why can no one find it?

I feel like this gives an excuse to hint at that there could

be something supernatural here in the same way

that it is an Indiana Jones, which we can hint at.

Hint at-- oh my God, you can see what

a bad, messy writer we are.

I've misspelled things left and right.

Hint at something supernatural.

Okay.

What is the supernatural?

I don't know.

I don't know if we have to know right now.

Right.

Something is in the mine-- something maybe--

maybe there's-- maybe there's a rumor of something

in the mines.

ROSS DUFFER: Remember we didn't have the demogorgon

or anything when we wrote that "Stranger Things" paragraph.

MATT DUFFER: Something not human.

ROSS DUFFER: Something not human living in the mine

and protecting it.

Right?

Well.

Potentially?

Right.

Could be.

Is that too much?

No, I mean, the story--

It's starting-- it's starting to sound like smog,

like a dragon.

Okay, we don't want that.

MATT DUFFER: Maybe-- I don't know.

Maybe it has something to do with the treasure.

Maybe it doesn't.

I don't think we have to figure that out.

ROSS DUFFER: But there's some reason

why no one in 100 year-- or 90 years has found this place.

There's got to be something.

MATT DUFFER: I'm just got to put down any ideas I have.

It's important to just jot down a lot of ideas.

Maybe Dustin's dad isn't the only person who's gone missing.

ROSS DUFFER: He definitely isn't, not maybe.

MATT DUFFER: Gone missing-- many have gone--

have gone missing in these mines.

ROSS DUFFER: Leading with Adolf Ruth.

No, but, I mean, that's ancient history, right.

People-- people more recent.

Maybe people have gone missing in these mines--

And one last idea before we start writing this--

and Dustin's dad, this is important,

isn't the only one looking for this treasure.

So now we've got some bad guys.

MATT DUFFER: Right.

ROSS DUFFER: Some bad guys are also looking for treasure.

MATT DUFFER: Like bad--

bad treasure hunters.

ROSS DUFFER: Because as we mentioned earlier,

what you're going to need is, besides the drive,

now we've sort of got two drives,

but they're all leading-- they're both

leading to the same destination, which is helpful.

But we also have to start throwing obstacles in.

So they don't know where to go, obstacle one,

and then we're setting up the idea

that there are going to be villains here both human

and maybe not so human.

So now we need to write this out so it's coherent.

Right?

Right.

So we have a lot of ideas.

I'm just gonna start roughing this out.

We'll clean it up as we go.

After the events of season three,

Dustin decides to set out and find his--

find his dad who's living in Arizona.

He recruits friend--

Why is he--

sorry, but why is he suddenly setting out?

I don't know why.

I mean, I was thinking it was something emotional

like he wants to find him.

I mean-- I mean, I'm saying does he need to have--

does he need here something as specific as his dad is missing?

It could be so maybe like.

That maybe, like, Claudia, the mom

gets a phone call or something.

Like I feel like we need something to prompt it aside

from, hey, I miss my dad.

I wanna go see my dad.

Yeah, something that sets him off on his journey.

Could it be Cerebro related?

So Dustin has this like radio--

Yes, it could be.

Cerebro radio.

So he could intercept something, a strange message on Cerebro.

Yeah.

MATT DUFFER: That's-- why I like that it's a little bit more

specific to Dustin intercepts a strange--

I don't want to use strange--

After the events of season three,

Dustin intercepts an odd message on Cerebro,

which a message he believes--

he believes is, in fact, from a communication

from his estranged father.

He [INAUDIBLE]---- he recruits his friend Steve and Steve's car,

of course, to assist him in his journey.

However, when they arrive--

Wait, we haven't said he was going--

I haven't set it--

I haven't set up Arizona.

Oay.

Strange father, he decides--

I'm just say he decides he has-- he wants to go--

Who'll assist him in his--

He wants to go check on his dad.

His dad-- his dad who lived--

MATT DUFFER: You know what, I'm going to change odd to cryptic.

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah.

[INAUDIBLE] with his dad in this messages.

Turns out Dustin's dad, not unlike his son,

loves a good adventure.

Cryptic message on Cerebro, a message he believes

is, in fact, a communication from his estranged father.

Dustin decides he wants to check on his dad who lives close--

it's okay, whatever.

This is the key.

I mean, this is going to be a little messy at first.

However, when they arrive in Arizona,

they discover that Dustin's dad is missing--

ROSS DUFFER: To find the long lost treasure of the Lost

Dutchman's Mine hidden.

Okay.

Steve and Dustin now set off to both find Dustin's dad as well

as this-- as long as this--

as well-- as well as the treasure.

Treasure.

However, they aren't the only ones.

However, they aren't the only ones

looking for this treasure--

And they soon discover there's a reason--

a reason that no one has discovered

this treasure in over--

has discovered this mine in over 300 years.

There's something lurking there, lurking in the dark.

I think this last sentence we could do looking

for the treasure, and they soon find themselves embroiled

in a-- can we get a sentence like that?

Adventure involving-- involving thieves.

OK.

Wait, let me read it.

I'm going to read it through.

Hold on.

Okay, here we go.

Steve and Dustin spinoff limited series.

Okay, it does not have a title.

Steve and Dustin-- you can just say the Lost Dutchman's Mine.

I mean--

MATT DUFFER: Yeah, that sounds like a fun--

it's kind of got that Indiana Jones--

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah.

Again, it's a little silly but--

Doesn't sound great.

No.

Okay, okay, Steve and Dustin and the Lost Dutchman's Mine.

Okay, here we go.

Let's see how this is sounding.

So first of all, you can see how we start out

with a bunch of sketchy ideas.

They don't all make it into the paragraph

because we want to keep it short and tight.

But so some of these ideas move over

into our brainstorming in blue sky phase, which

we'll get into later.

Okay, here we go.

You want to read out see how it sounds?

Yeah, I can read it.

Okay, here we go.

After the events of season three,

Dustin intercepts a cryptic message on Cerebro,

a message he believes is, in fact,

a communication from his estranged father.

That sounds pretty good.

Okay.

A concerned Dustin decides to check on his dad who

lives in Arizona.

He recruits his good friend Steve

and Steve's car, of course, to assist him in his journey.

However, when Dustin and Steve arrive in Arizona,

they discover that Dustin's dad is missing.

How about they find that Dustin's dad is missing and has

been missing for--

and has been missing for many years?

Many months.

Many months.

Let's see.

[INTERPOSING VOICES]

He'd be dead.

What is he doing in the--

That's a good.

That's a great question for the show.

All right, fine.

You can say years.

Has been, in fact-- and has, in fact--

That feels aggressive.

Missing for many months.

I'm going to say--

I'm going to say months.

We'll talk-- we'll debate this off camera.

Turns out that-- turns out that Dustin's dad,

very much like his son, loves a good adventure and is set off

to find the lost--

missing-- the Lost Dutchman's Mine--

ROSS DUFFER: The rumored at home of a great treasure.

MATT DUFFER: Steve-- Dustin and Steve now set off to find

Dustin's dad as well as the gold--

ROSS DUFFER: As well as the treasure.

However, they ain't the only ones looking for this.

And they soon find themselves embroiled

in an adventure involving thieves, treasure hunters,

and something else, something lurking in the dark,

something not quite human.

Again, what I would do if we had a little more time

is I would go through and clean up.

We've got a few repetitive words and things like this,

but, again, these paragraphs really--

they're for yourself, and, of course,

you can send them to close friends, or in our case,

we sent our Montauk paragraph out to our agent.

It's really just to see how is this feeling.

What's working about this?

What's not working about this?

And that's really the point of this,

and is this something that it's getting you excited.

So we're leaving this as unfinished.

It's not perfect, but it's good to walk away

from a paragraph like this and look

at it again with fresh eyes.

So normally I would leave or I would take a break for the day,

sleep, look at it in the morning, continue to hone it.

Yeah, you fall in love with this,

this is what I want to write, this doesn't see spinoff,

this is the one, then we would start developing it.

What is that in the mine?

You know, who are these guys that are also

looking for the treasure?

That's all the stuff will get into later.

And, again, Steve and Dustin are already

fully developed characters.

In your version of this, you would just say,

hey, a high school or a middle schooler

gets a cryptic message from his estranged father,

and then you build it from there.

You don't need to go into-- you don't even

need names necessarily.

MATT DUFFER: Again, for the Montauk one,

we just talked about friends, family, and teachers.

ROSS DUFFER: That's it.

That's all we had, and that's Okay.

But a lot of that is going to come in the next stage

once you have this big idea.

So now I think what we'd like you

to do is start to come up with some ideas.

So throw out a bunch of ideas, pick your favorite three

to five ideas and write out a paragraph for them

much like the paragraph we wrote for our imaginary Steve

and Dustin spinoff.

And then remember if you get stuck, don't be frustrated.

Be generous to yourself.

Be patient.

It should be fun.

It should be a fun process.

And the other thing I would say that we talked about

is just reminding you, which is that maybe you

come up with eight ideas, a couple of them are really bad.

That's Okay.

Try putting them together.

Maybe that'll open up-- maybe combining these two will

bring something new to life.

So that's always a fun exercise to do.

We love writing.

It is a fun process.

Yes, it is frustrating at times.

It gets scary at times.

You get stuck.

It doesn't feel like you're ever going to get unstuck sometimes.

But what we try to do with this class is show you our process,

because this is the process that we found,

for us, made the writing process as smooth as possible.

And as fun as possible.

And as fun as possible.

And of course, there are bumps along the way.

We've written outlines that don't work.

We've written scripts that don't work.

But that's okay.

We at least now know when stuff isn't working.

We know how to go about solving those issues.

That makes it a lot less stressful and a lot more--

less pressure on us.

And that allows us to enjoy it a lot more.

In fact, I would say there was a point in our life--

there was, like, a two to four years part of our lives where

writing was really painful and not fun.

It felt like torture.

Pulling teeth.

Yeah, it felt like pulling teeth.

If it's feeling like torture to you,

you may be doing something wrong.

And so that's what we realized.

It was like, it's not that we didn't enjoy writing.

It was that we were approaching it in the wrong way.

So if it is feeling like that to you,

that doesn't mean you're not meant to be

a writer or anything like that.

It just means that your process should probably change.

Hopefully, our process doesn't make it feel like torture.

But if it's not working for you, you

will find, hopefully, your own process that works.

Before we get into you doing anything writing related,

I think we have to talk about one

of the least fun parts of the process, which

is writing habits.

But I cannot tell you how many people we know,

how many people, aspiring writers or whatever,

this is the downfall in that.

It's so easy to just not write anything.

It's so easy to--

Procrastinate.

--procrastinate, to delay, to stare at a blank page,

to surf the internet.

And before you know it, you've lost two years,

and you have 10 pages.

So it is important to develop something

of a routine for yourself.

It's very, very difficult to focus.

I'll tell you a little bit how Ross and I do it

and how we focus.

We certainly don't stay focused throughout the entire day.

But we do our very best.

We keep each other in check.

That helps.

But if you don't have a writing partner, that's fine, too.

We like to start really early in the morning.

Like, we think-- if I'm not going

right away, if my brain isn't locked into writing mode,

whatever that is, early morning, then I'm going to fall apart.

I'm not going to be able to start mid-afternoon.

I mean, sometimes we'll have stuff

now with "Stranger Things" where we're

trying to start writing at, like, 2:00 PM.

And it's always a disaster.

So we've got to get started right away

with that cup of coffee.

And then we give ourselves a long time to write.

Like, we write from roughly, like, 9:00,

and then we stop around 6:00 or 7:00,

which is a really, really long writing day.

To me, it makes the day less stressful

because I feel like I have a lot of time.

I have a lot of room to make mistakes.

And then if my mind wanders, it's not the end of the world.

And there are other writers--

I always think about Stephen King, right?

I know we all look up to him.

He's one of the most prolific writers in the world.

I think he has a 2,000 words a day goal.

And as soon as he accomplishes that, he's done for the day.

He writes 2,000 words, he's done.

Sometimes he's done by, like, 11:30 AM, sometimes he's

done by 2:00 PM, whenever he hits that goal.

And that really works for him, right?

And then he goes and watches, like, baseball games

or whatever it is.

So everybody has something very different.

Some people like the morning to themselves

without having to think about writing.

So I think the important thing is figuring out

what works for you, but setting goals for yourself, setting up

a routine for yourself.

Try to stay off the internet.

We like working out of our houses.

Some people prefer being in a public space like a coffee

shop, right, because that forces them to focus.

They find it's less distracting.

I find it more distracting.

Whatever it is for you works.

Maybe you have a day job, and you can't do it.

Well, maybe two hours every night when you come home,

and you just sit down and you do it.

And you just find whatever time you have and go,

this is when I'm going to write.

And you spend that time actually writing.

And you try to focus.

You could have the best big idea in the world,

but if you don't have the discipline

to sit down and actually spend the time to write it,

it's just going to sit there.

Another downfall we see is that people just

get frustrated.

I mean, they are working, and they are putting in the hours,

but then they just get lost.

A script just seems broken.

The script isn't working.

And you just kind of throw it away.

It's so easy to get, like, lost in the woods

is kind of what we call it.

It just feels-- like, 60 pages, 100,

if you're doing a show, 120 pages, roughly,

if you're doing a movie.

It doesn't seem like a lot.

But it's very easy to get lost in there,

lose sight of the bigger picture.

And I think that happens more often than not

to writers, every writer.

It certainly happened to us when we were starting out.

I mean, we toiled around with a script forever.

I mean, we got really lost.

And nothing ever happened.

It just ended up wasting a lot of time.

What we're going to try to do with this class is kind of walk

you through kind of a step-by-step process

that will hopefully allow you to avoid that,

avoid that sense of being completely lost.

When we wrote "Stranger Things," or "Montauk,"

as it was known back then, we wrote it on spec.

And what spec means, if you don't know,

is that we developed it on our own.

There was no one attached.

There was no guarantee of it selling or much less

getting made.

We were just doing it completely on our own, which

is very freeing because we're the only opinions at this stage

that really matter.

It's scary, because you don't know

if you're putting in all this time and it won't go anywhere.

So that's the trade-off.

But we enjoy just developing stuff on our own.

And so that's what we were doing with this.

The other danger, though, of working on spec

is if you're getting paid to write something,

generally you're going to be given deadlines

by that company.

They're going to expect things at a certain date.

If you're writing it on spec, well, there

are no real deadlines unless you create deadlines for yourself.

And I think that that can occasionally

be something that helps people.

Now, I'd be lying to you if I said that Matt and I were

great at hitting deadlines.

We create deadlines for ourselves all the time.

We rarely make them.

But I do think it is important to set goalposts

for yourself and go, okay, well, I'm

going to work on this outline for the next two weeks.

And then I'm hoping that by Saturday, July 13,

I'm going to be moving on into the script stage.

Now, what this does is it gives you some structure.

And I think that that can be helpful

if you're writing it on spec.

The danger of it being, you may be moving onto a stage

before you're ready.

And that's why when I say Matt and I blow past our deadlines

all the time, we do not want to do that.

We have done that in the past, where we jump in the script

or we jump into fleshing out an outline too early.

And then what happens is you end up

wasting additional weeks continuing

to work on something where you've just gone too far ahead.

And like Matt's saying, you get lost in the woods,

and you have to go backwards in time,

throw all that out, and start from scratch.

And that is a much bigger time waster.

Just make sure not to move on to the next stage

until you're feeling very confident,

because, as Matt's saying, it's not like we just

wasted a few weeks on projects.

We wasted at least a year on projects

where the issue was actually all the way back to this big idea.

It was missing some key element.

And maybe we knew it in our gut, but we needed to move on.

We felt we needed to move on to those next stages.

And we just went too early.

So we'd advise you not to do that.

No, it's good to create sort of artificial deadlines

for yourself.

And sometimes, the real world will hit you

with a deadline of its own.

So in the case of "Hidden," I mean,

that happened because we were extremely low on money

at that point.

We were about to run out.

We had about a month?

A month and a half.

A month and a half in order to get this script written.

And it felt like we kind of had a gun to our heads,

that we had to get this script written.

We had to write a script.

We had to sell it.

It felt kind of like an impossible task.

But it gave us this sort of urgency

and adrenaline that we didn't have in some of the earlier

scripts that we had written.

And that really helped us.

The same if you end up working for a studio or whatever,

you're going to have these scary deadlines that you're

going to have to hit.

A little bit of urgency and a little bit of a deadline

is good.

Don't-- I think something we did early on is we just indulged

too much.

We spent too long on stuff.

It's good-- a little bit of speed is good.

A little bit of speed.

A little bit of speed is good.

One thing that helps us as we're working on ideas

is that we work with each other, so we have a writing partner.

So we're able to bounce ideas off of one another.

We're very honest with each other.

We also grew up, obviously, together,

so we've watched all the same movies and the TV shows.

We have the same references.

We have mostly the same things that we love.

So that helps.

We have, obviously, quite the shorthand.

But I think it can be helpful if you

have a sounding board, someone else that you can bounce ideas

off of.

You go to someone that you trust,

whether it's a friend or family or someone you've

met in school.

And you can go, hey, I have some ideas,

and I want to see how you respond to them.

I think that that's also something that can

work as part of your process.

One thing that helps Ross and I in terms of staying focused

is that we have the other one to check.

So if suddenly I'm on the internet, Ross will go, Matt,

what are you doing?

I don't see you on my Google document with me.

Like, where are you?

Focus back in.

So it does help to have a writing partner.

We know most people don't have a twin,

so we're fortunate in the sense that we have twins.

Oftentimes, we know people who find--

who do have a writing partner who

find someone who shares their sensibilities who

they enjoy working with.

But we also have a lot of friends who write on their own,

and they don't have that partner.

So to sort of refocus them, I think if you're working alone,

then that means it's more important than ever

that you have a routine and structure and deadlines, all

of the stuff that we talked about,

because you don't have someone else checking in with you.

Maybe you're going to say, hey, in two weeks,

I'm going to send this outline to my friend for feedback.

And maybe they'll check in with you in two weeks

and go, hey, how's that outline coming?

That helps.

So there are ways around it.

But whatever you do, and this is very personal,

but come up with a way to give yourself

a little bit of structure.

If you are working with a writing partner,

you may both have your own strengths.

For Matt and I, for instance, I'm

generally trying to keep pushing us forward.

We got to get this done.

We got to write this outline.

We got to get to this script.

Right.

Matt is very good at going, well, wait a minute,

this isn't figured out now.

It's a little bit like checks and balances.

So I think we sort of push and pull each other,

and we find a good balance there where we are making progress.

We're not getting too lost in the woods.

But at the same time, we're making sure

that everything is up to par.

MATT (VOICEOVER): So in this next assignment,

find someone you trust who can serve

as your sounding board for your ideas

or to help keep you accountable to your deadlines.

So now you've got some ideas right now.

It's time to pick your favorite idea.

So hopefully this is the idea that if you wake up,

you're feeling really good about it, you're excited,

you can't wait to write, you can't

wait to get into final draft and start

making-- turning it into a script, but like hold up,

hold up, hold up.

So what-- we're actually going to do something

more fun than that, more fun than writing the script.

So the first thing we do and this is in a lot of ways

the most fun part of the process for us,

because you've got the idea down, right?

That's so hard.

You got an idea, which is really, really hard

and really taxing.

But once you have the idea, the fun part

is to explore that idea.

So this is something we call blue-skying,

we say we're going to blue-sky our idea.

And basically that just means no pressure brainstorming.

And remember, you could start blue-skying,

you can start brainstorming an idea,

and it's not getting you excited.

So you can always go back.

I mean, you're never forced to stick with an idea.

I mean, we do that all the time.

And one way you know it's a good idea

is that it starts to unlock a lot of doors.

So as you're thinking about the idea,

as you're brainstorming it, suddenly you

go, oh, what about this?

What about that?

It's exciting.

It's just like, oh, wow, this is a really fun sandbox to play in

and there's so much, almost too much, to do here.

That was certainly the case with "Stranger Things."

We had a psychic girl.

We had monsters.

We had a police chief.

We had another dimension.

We're like--

Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god,

we just had all this stuff, and we just wanted--

we started to spit all these ideas.

But I think the most important thing

is to trust yourself and trust what you're feeling,

and just you want to feel that passion,

you want to feel the excitement.

If you've got that, great.

We should start blue-skying.

So usually when Ross and I are blue-skying,

what we do is we get together, we hit on music,

we open up our computers, and then we just start to bat

around ideas.

So we throw out, it's almost stream of consciousness.

So it's just, we just throw out any and every idea

that we have.

We jot it all down.

It's super sketchy, very, very messy.

A lot of the ideas we throw out.

Will never see the light of day.

No one will ever read them.

This is like a very personal part of the process that's

just for yourself, but it's always

good to have too many ideas.

You can always pull from them later.

You'll be surprised.

I think as we stepped through our brainstorming for "Stranger

Things" how some ideas we had very early on

became something we used in season two or season three.

So it's always good to have a huge grab bag of ideas

and just start to throw any and everything out.

And the reason we like, even though it

is stream of consciousness, why we like writing it down

is because then you can go back, then you sleep on it,

you come back the next day.

You read through sort of your thought process and these ideas

and go, well, this here, this little line here,

that's really sticking out as a really-- something really cool.

Maybe we should build on that and go from there.

It's nice to just write it down and keep

a document of your process.

We typically spend, I don't know, anywhere from a week

to two weeks on this.

I think that was the case for "Stranger Things."

I mean, we spent about two weeks throwing out ideas.

I like giving yourself a lot of time on this,

because then again, it lowers the pressure.

And that if you have a day that's not particularly

productive and you don't come up with a big idea,

you don't start getting frustrated.

You're like, okay, well, there's always tomorrow.

You're going to have days, good days,

and you're going to have bad days, and that's okay.

Don't stress out.

It's important to be patient and generous with yourself.

So give yourself a little bit of time for this.

Just get it all out there.

Vomit it all out.

And I think it's all helpful, good and bad.

So we're going to show you our blue-sky document

for "Montauk," which eventually became "Stranger Things,"

right?

Ross and I write it down as we're thinking it.

So you're seeing really what was in our heads

as we were writing it down.

No one one's ever seen this before.

But you'll really get a sense of how we generated the idea

and how it evolved.

In terms of the kind of things you're growing to blue-sky,

you're going to be thinking about everything.

You're going to be thinking about character, setting,

world, mythology, drive, story, literally everything.

Which sounds overwhelming, but it's not

because it's fun because you can bounce

from thinking about characters to thinking about setting

to thinking about story.

I mean--

You get stuck on one thing, you move to the next.

And it's just-- you're going to see this document,

it's a little chaotic, but we're going

to go through and show you each of those things

that we were talking about and how

it led to this bigger piece.

Something that's not going to be in this document,

but it is something you can think about,

you saw sort of doing it on the fly,

and I don't think we nailed it, which is title,

and that's something else you can blue-sky.

I mean, for "Stranger Things," Montauk came to us

instantly just because we--

it's a cool word.

There's something a little spooky about it.

Now when it came to changing the title due to,

we weren't able to shoot in Montauk due to cost,

so we had to move it to Atlanta.

So it had to change.

And we didn't want to just do call it, Hawkins.

We didn't want to just do it as a make-believe town

as the title.

It's not-- wasn't very exciting to us.

So we just came up with a bunch of ideas.

You know we had The Keep.

We had Indigo, which was going to be the name

of the government program.

And of course, amidst that we had "Stranger Things."

And I think ultimately it sort of boiled

down to Indigo and Stranger Things.

Indigo sounds really weird now, but that

was sort of the runner-up.

And one fun thing we did, and this is if you do

want to take a beat away from your blue-skying,

we sort of mocked up each title in Photoshop

in a font that we thought was sort

of what we wanted to actually do for the show, that got

across the vibe of the show.

Well, I was always Team Stranger Things,

and it looked good.

It looked like a Stephen King book.

Maybe because it just made me think of needful things.

It may have not been any more difficult

or complicated than that, but for whatever reason,

that's why we liked it.

And that's why the show is now called "Stranger Things."

Let's look at that.

Actually look at the doc again.

You can do title in that.

That's one of many elements.

So let's go through and sort of step through this little--

it's going to be a little chaotic looking at the doc,

but this was exactly what we did back in the day.

And you're going to see our thought process.

MATT DUFFER: So we'll start off with characters.

The first thing we wrote is, "Sam Rockwell, opposite

of McConaughy, lives on a beach."

So this is Hopper that we're writing about.

Again, I don't have to specify that we're

talking about Hopper.

This is just for us, as long as we understand what we're

writing, it doesn't matter.

Also Sam Rockwell means a lot of things to me and Ross.

We know what type of character we're describing

when we say Sam Rockwell.

This is not for anybody else.

It's just for us.

So Sam Rockwell is shorthand for like, a book of things.

Well, and I think the most important thing,

and I think this is opposite of McConaughy,

in this "True Detective" was coming out of the time,

but I think that by Sam Rockwell,

we meant that he's not your typical Hollywood hero.

This isn't-- we didn't say, if we wrote Tom Cruise lives

on a beach, that gives us--

Very different.

Very different, very different vibes, you know.

Dwayne Johnson lives on a beach.

Very different vibe.

And then we start talking a little bit about plot,

you'll see.

"They've opened a portal, you don't understand, snatchers."

So, again, snatchers is not a good name.

That eventually becomes demogorgons, right?

But that's the origin of the demogorgons right there.

"People are going missing, you understand,

that's the third person that's gone missing, they've drowned,

they're saying they drowned in the lake or the ocean."

Remember this used to be set right next to the ocean.

"You don't believe that, do you?"

So this is the idea that its government lies, right?

We even ask ourselves questions in this.

We write down our questions.

"How do we keep these kids involved?"

And then we say, "maybe the sheriff

isn't the major character."

So it's interesting that we actually started it out,

and that's probably why we started out

writing about Sam Rockwell, is we

had Hopper was going to be the main character.

Well, if you remember it started with prisoners.

So, again, that's the-- you know,

you've got this police character as the lead.

But I think we made a mental note to, wait,

can we steer this more towards the kids.

How do we keep these kids involved?

We didn't know the answer, and that's okay.

You can ask yourself, like Matt's saying,

ask yourself questions.

We don't know how this is going to work,

but we know we want to keep the kids involved

in the investigation of their missing friend.

But then we say, "kids are dying,

getting yanked into another dimension,

his bike is just sitting there, where the hell did he go?"

So we're starting to introduce some imagery that actually

did end up in the final show, and actually

on the poster for the show.

"What happened to him.

Everybody's looking for this kid."

And then we reintroduce the sheriff.

So that's huge right there, that early

brainstorming right there.

We started to develop some of the core--

Core elements.

Core elements of the plot.

What that drive is.

Another thing that we get into in this document

is worldbuilding, right?

So we go into, "are the two worlds bleeding into our world.

The wormhole is expanding.

You see, you need to be able to get into the other world.

There are openings.

Mouths to this world."

"Perhaps one of the kids accidentally goes into it.

It draws you in.

With what?

Something trance-like, enticing.

Dancing particles, almost like moths, fluttering around.

The wormhole is expanding.

This universe is bleeding into our own."

What I think is interesting about this

is some of these ideas don't make it into season one,

but some of them make it into later seasons.

We do have a mouth to another world, which

does make it into season one.

MATT DUFFER: We end up calling it the rip.

What didn't make it as the trance-like thing

or the dancing particles.

Dancing particles was really the prototype

for what would become the Mind Flayer in season two.

We started to get overloaded with ideas,

so you'll see as we move into outline,

that's just an idea that just didn't make it into that pilot

script.

But again, no ideas are bad ideas.

This all came around.

The fact that this world is bleeding into our own,

that also became a core element of season two.

It didn't really play a role in season one.

But again, we're just throwing out these ideas.

And this is day one of brainstorming.

And you can see how much we're already coming up with.

I'm going to skip a little bit,

but I'm going to go into what is probably

the most important five minutes of brainstorming in our lives.

And you'll see it all as we were writing out in real time,

back in, what was this?

Looked like April 14.

We said, "there's a world underneath this world.

Two worlds."

So that's the upside down, obviously.

"This world is encroaching into ours."

We're repeating something we've already said, but that's okay.

"Increased military presence.

They've unleashed this thing.

It's not going to stop.

Maybe it's a kid with powers.

Is that weird.

Or maybe a girl of sorts.

Certainly can take inspiration from that.

Then we have this kid who can't connect with anyone, who begins

to connect with this girl.

She kisses him.

Very ET-like."

Who--

And that's talking about Mike now.

Mike.

"Very ET-like.

Who are you?

I was experimented on.

Explodes his head."

So that didn't-- that didn't make it in, but that could be

cool.

"This place, it's going to open up.

Don't you get it?

Something more innocent.

The government wants her.

They're tracking her down," et cetera.

So, and then--

How do we get to this other place?

I can show you.

Like the "Matrix."

So this right here is the creation of Eleven.

So this is when we came up with Eleven.

So I don't know if this is an hour worth of brainstorming

or less, but we started with a show

about a sheriff investigating a missing kid to introducing

the idea of the Upside Down and a girl with psionic abilities,

and the whole ET aspect of the show, which is, I think,

really essential to why it was successful,

was generated right here.

And we're even questioning, is this a good idea?

Is that weird?

And obviously, we got excited about it

because we kept writing.

When I think that's the thing we talked about

too in the big idea phase, it's like,

does this open a lot of doors?

And so suddenly we're going, as you can see,

one door opens-- the girl suddenly opened the door to,

wait a minute, now she can have a relationship

with our protagonist boy character.

Well, that's interesting.

So that opens up a door as, wait,

now, she can show him where Will is.

So earlier a couple paragraphs before we said,

how do we get the kids involved in this investigation?

We just got our answer right here.

And then you can tell we got excited about this character

because we keep writing about her.

"She's not from another dimension."

So there we're clarifying she's not from this Upside Down.

"She's one of them.

They captured her.

I was born here," meaning in the laboratory.

"We can do her backstory.

Telepathy, powers, experimentation.

No one understands it.

And we have to overlay that with the everyday evil, suburbia,

depression."

Okay, so there we're starting to move from just very rapidly

from character and story into themes.

So we're going-- we're talking about what can we do

thematically with this story.

Again, this is why it's a little bit chaotic and all

over the place.

That's good and fine.

So we're saying, "but it's an evil.

We have to overlay that with the everyday evil, suburbia,

depression, evil.

How perfect everything is, but everything is not perfect.

We put on a face for the public.

The inner darkness.

That's what it's about."

So suddenly we're going, okay, what is the theme of this show?

For some people, their process is,

that's the starting kernel of their idea.

That's not how Matt and I work.

What we do is we're coming up with that story with characters

that resonate with us and with the drive.

And through that, as we're developing it, we go, okay,

that's--

there's something more about this story

that I think can be impactful for people.

So, in this case, it's sort of Matt and I grew up in suburbia.

So it's going, okay, maybe there's--

everything seems perfect, but beneath it, there's more.

And I think that got us excited about, okay,

this story can be more.

It's not just about finding a kidnapped kid.

It's not just about kids fighting monsters.

There's something a little more resonant about it.

So, again, that can be something that you come up

with when you're discovering your big idea,

or like us, it can come through the process of blue-skying it.

But hopefully your story starts to take on more resonance

as you're developing it.

Now the one thing that you're not going to see,

if you sort of zoom in and read through this document or pause

the screen, the one thing you're not going to see

is a lot of us talking about location or setting.

And that's really because part of the big idea

was this is set in Montauk.

We didn't really feel the need that we

needed to go into a lot of detail blue-skying that.

We knew what it was.

I actually think it is a good idea

to write out some ideas about the location

because that can lead to story ideas.

Like, even then, we didn't do this here,

but I think it would have been a good idea

to start talking about what are some cool locations we could

explore within the world of, say, Montauk, or eventually

Hawkins, right?

You can talk about the arcade.

You can talk about the movie theater, the mall.

You could talk about the kids' basement.

The Fish 'N Fry.

And start thinking about what are cool, like,

mini settings within the larger setting,

and that might actually lead to more ideas and cool ideas.

So it's something that we didn't do as much back then,

but we do it now when we're working on an idea.

We definitely try to think about setting.

Yes.

As you're starting to throw out all of these ideas, what's

going to have started as, like, a really, really rough sketch

is going to start to get filled in a little bit more.

So, hopefully, what was really blurry at first

is going to start to slowly come more and more into focus,

and you're going to get a sense of what this show is.

Like, we're starting to see "Stranger Things," not

completely, but a little bit.

It's like our vision is getting a little bit better.

But you see how much of "Stranger Things"

came out in the blue-sky process.

That the big idea--

and I think a lot of people put too much pressure

on every stage, and it is a process.

You've got to take it a little bit at a time.

So this-- Eleven wasn't in the big idea, which

is hard to think about now.

It's hard to think about "Stranger Things"

without Eleven.

She wasn't in that paragraph.

She wasn't in the paragraph.

But now we've got demogorgons, they're called snatchers.

We've got Eleven, she doesn't have a name yet,

but we know there's a girl with psychic powers.

We know that she's going to bond and have

sort of an innocent relationship with our young boy lead.

We've got a broken sheriff, who we're calling Sam Rockwell.

We've got the kid's mom.

We talk about her in here.

It's a lot of what the show's going to become.

As you're working on this, you're

going to start to explore the tone of your piece.

You're going to start to figure out

what is the mood of the piece.

And that really is what-- what is tone,

when people ask what is tone.

I mean, really it is a feeling.

Like, what feeling does it evoke in you?

What mood does it evoke?

And "Stranger Things," of course,

has many different tones.

We knew it was going to have these horror elements,

but see, as we're discovering this character of Eleven,

the tone is shifting a little bit.

So it's becoming a little less of a cop supernatural

procedural, which honestly sounds a little boring,

and it's becoming-- it's getting a little bit more

of that Spielberg vibe into it.

We're moving a little bit away from some of the darker Stephen

King themes, which were in the original paragraph,

and infusing them with a little bit more

of that Spielberg vibe.

The kids are becoming a bigger part of it.

So the tone is evolving.

And I remember, it's not written down in this document,

but it's something that we talked about

and why we were excited about the idea,

is that it would allow us to explore

a lot of different tones.

It's why we had basically three generations.

We had adults, we had teens, and we had kids.

And each of them was going to be able to allow

us to explore a different tone.

It was something that excited us about TV.

It's like, oh, we can have three different types of movies,

four different types of movies, and kind of

weave them together.

And you can see in the document even,

we do mention certain movies, whether it's

the "Matrix" or a big one when we came up

with the character of Eleven was "ET."

When we write "ET," it brings up a lot of memories for us

and it also brings a specific tone,

which is a tone that you don't see a lot.

And we got excited about, hey, I haven't

seen this a lot in general and I certainly

don't remember the last time I've seen it

on TV, which is your telling something

from the point of view of kids.

But I remember being scared by it as a kid.

Elliott got in danger.

He got really sick.

I was worried for ET.

They find ET and he's dying.

The stakes always felt real.

And I think that was something we realized

early on as we were brainstorming,

this is, we can have fun with these kids,

but at the heart of it, we've got this missing kid and we

got real danger.

And we wanted, even though the kids were young,

we wanted to put them in real danger

and we wanted the audience to feel worried for them.

And I think that was an important part of the evolution

of "Stranger Things."

But I think the bigger point here

is, you don't have to have the tone down.

Let it-- you can discover it, it can change, and it can evolve.

And you can even see in this stuff

that we were reading to you that it was actually

quite a bit more violent and dark than it ended up being.

So we had Eleven exploding heads.

So we do have her killing agents,

but we don't have the Cronenberg scanners thing

where heads are exploding.

I mean, in our heads, initially this

was going to be extremely gory.

So that ended up kind of going away.

So be patient, allow it to evolve,

and be open to the tone shifting and evolving

as you continue to blue-sky and brainstorm.

There are a lot of tones going within "Stranger Things,"

but the tone that we are hoping holds all this together

and holds all these different threads

and different story strands together

is a sense of sincerity.

That's the stories that matter and I fell in love with,

whether it was "ET," or "The Goonies," or any of these films

that made us want to make films in the first place.

If there's a joke, it's out of a result of the situation,

but the stakes are still real, and the friendships are still

real, and we're not making light of anything.

We wanted to put a lot of heart into it.

It really is about friendships, and it's about family,

and not to be embarrassed by that.

To actually embrace that.

It's not-- right.

It's not-- it's not ironic.

We never wanted to be ironic, or meta,

or winking at the audience, or anything like that.

So even though you have all these disparate tones,

in terms of horror, and comedy, and romance, and all of that,

you have something that kind of ties it all together.

So it doesn't feel like a mishmash of things.

It all coheres.

So now what you're going to do is you're going to take

your big idea and you're going to blue-sky it,

which means you're going to come up, like we did,

a bunch of ideas, almost stream of consciousness that this idea

gives you.

Hopefully it's going to open a lot of doors.

And so you're going to just keep opening those doors wherever

they take you.

Whether it's about setting, or character, or plot,

or mythology.

Just whatever doors open, just follow

the stream of consciousness and just get it all down on paper.

Whatever this thing is it's not traveling far.

Will's body, it was a fake.

I don't think my parents ever loved each other.

[GUNSHOT]

It's not safe.

OK so hopefully, if you've done some blue skying,

you've come up with some various characters

just how like we did with 11 with our Sheriff Sam Rockwell

character.

So now that you've got all these,

another thing that we often do is

we start listing all the characters,

the ones that we think are going to make the show.

But again, even though we are going in a little more detail

now by making a list of our characters,

we want to start really broad.

We don't want to get lost in the woods of too many details.

So we're going to show you right now like the initial list we

made of characters that we thought

could be integral to this show.

So as you see in this document, we've

got kid who has taken, Tommy.

That it becomes well.

So some of these names did not stick.

And again, I think the reason that

is obviously the first character we wrote down.

Why we know for a fact that character

is going to make the show because the show is

about the drive of the show is about a missing kid, right?

Sometimes it's nice to throw some names out just

to give you something to hook onto.

We've got best friend Joel.

Joel obviously will become Mike later on,

nerd friend, Neil, who eventually becomes Lucas.

Yeah.

We've got overweight friend, Dustin, Joel's parents,

we don't go into any detail about them.

Joyce and Guy, I mean, his name is Guy.

That's how vague this is right now.

We've got Tommy's parents, Tommy being-

Is Will.

So Joyce, we obviously switched.

Again, all of these names are on Wendy, Arthur.

Sheriff, we went into a lot of detail there, Sheriff's

pregnant wife, she obviously didn't make the show.

Not all these characters are going to come up

with are going to make it.

As you continue to develop, you're

going to see who's going to make it

in who's essential to the plot and who's not.

We've got Sheriff's daughter.

That character obviously didn't make it.

We've got escapee, which was eventually

becomes 11, the escapee from the lab.

So again, baby steps, we're starting very small.

We're just going these are some of the characters who might

make it in terms of the names.

That can be a fun detour.

You're hitting a wall.

You're getting sort of tired of blue skying in it.

One thing we like to go is we'll just go

into like Social Security site.

And we'll punch in, we'll figure out

do the quick little math in terms of what

when these kids would be born.

So in the case of this, it was like sometime in the '70s.

And we would just type in.

And then you can choose.

You can go top 1,000 names from 1972.

And you're going to get a list starting with most

common to least common names.

And you can start to look through and make sure.

First of all, you make sure the names are period correct.

And also you can start to assign names to your characters.

Now, obviously the names we assigned here did not stick.

But it can start to give you a little hook

into these characters.

Yeah, it's funny.

Again how oh, you just seem like a Matt.

You just seem like a Trevor, a Lee.

A name does kind of give you some sense,

or you might have an impression of someone what someone

is like with a specific name.

It's a small thing, but actually does help

provide very early little bits of definition

as you're starting with the character.

In shorthand if you're working with a writing partner

to talk about it.

Hey, so Joel is going to go here.

And then Joel is going to go here.

Yeah, exactly.

That's it's just a shorthand for you to do.

You're just trying to come up with who

are some characters that might populate this story-line.

In terms of deciding which characters are really

going to make it, which characters

are going to become essential to the show,

Ross touched on this a little bit before.

You've got to start with the most obvious ones.

In this case, we obviously the show

does not exist without the kid who goes missing.

Then you work from there.

We knew he was going to have friends who are

going to be looking for him.

So we know those friends are going to exist

and be a part of the show.

We know there's going to be a Sheriff a part

of the show who's looking for the missing kid.

We know the kid's friends, the missing kid

is going to have a family.

We know he's going to have a mother who's going

to be a central character.

So you just start working there.

And the story itself will dictate

which characters are essential.

Once we started to think these characters are

going to make it, we go into a little more detail.

We've got Joyce Byers, Will's mom.

OK, she's now switched we.

We got the name.

We got the name right this time.

And even the last name, actually,

once you're confident that a character is going to survive

and you're going to exist within your show, it's fun

to give them a last name.

It starts to again, just help give them

an identity in your head.

So you started really broad, and now we're

going into just a little more detail.

We're saying Will's mom, single, husband left a long time ago.

That's all, he's a deadbeat.

Drug addict we say maybe she has an older daughter, ellipses.

And then we go into the older daughter character,

Vicki Byers, very pretty, beginning

of trouble at a young age, 16, in with a bad group,

a group of older kids who pick on our hero kids.

We then say Billy Flanagan, high school bully,

Vickie's boyfriend, leader of a group of friends,

trouble makes fun of our kids, dangerous,

gets a knife, et cetera, the evil side of our town.

Now, the reason I'm sharing these two with you

is because elements of these characters made

into the show, these specific characters

did not make it into season one.

Vickie Byers a version of that became Nancy.

So we didn't give Joyce a daughter anymore.

And parts of Vickie ended up moving over

to Nancy in that she's the nice girl,

but she gets sort of drawn into a slightly darker

side with Steve.

The Billy Flanagan character, Billy ends up playing a role,

a Billy character very similar to this

ends up playing a role in season two.

And we keep that name, actually.

We do keep that name but some of this of Steve

is softened a bit.

But even in the original pilot, he

is a little scarier, a little more dangerous, more

of a bully.

So some of these elements from this Billy Flanagan character

became Steve.

So Vicki and Billy were like very early prototypes

for who would become, what would become Nancy and Steve.

And again, just like with blue sky, just like your big idea,

and none of this is it's all useful to have all of this.

And obviously, we felt pretty confident at this stage

that these characters would make it because we

started fleshing them out.

They obviously didn't.

That's OK.

You're in the story is going to keep evolving,

and stuff's going to get pushed to the side.

And that's just part of the process.

So again, you've started out really broad.

You have a really rough list of the characters, you think.

And once you're more confident, which

ones are going to make it into the show,

you should start fleshing them out.

You should start to zoom in on them.

Explore that character.

I think as you explore that character,

it'll illuminate more whether or not

they're worth having in the show,

whether or not they're interesting enough

to be a major character in your show.

So one of the characters, we are fairly confident early on.

I mean, you never know.

But we were pretty confident the Sheriff character ultimately

would become Chief Hopper, that Hopper

was going to be a part of the show

that we were going to have the Sheriff.

And so we started to really flesh him out.

So you can actually see, we started

to sketch him out a little bit beyond remember

he started out just Sam Rockwell not McConaughey

on a beach [INAUDIBLE].

So then we took that, and now we've suggested maybe--

Had a Sheriff which is not any more

detailed than Sam Rockwell.

And now, we're like OK, let's actually

give this guy a little more of a backstory,

a little bit of a dramatic hat.

So and some of this, yeah OK let's see.

It's interesting.

So we said maybe it was a family man in New York.

His son died, car accident.

Now he's fucked up, left the city to come here,

pictures of family and house, lives

in a shack near the beach, this was Montauk, still,

drinks too much, smokes too much,

over a course of series falls for Joyce who is also broken,

comes to terms with his past as he solves her son's murder.

So actually, that's all spot on, really.

In terms of Hopper, obviously, we switched his son

and made that a daughter, but the rest of it is true.

So what we were doing with Hopper,

and I remember actually as we were working on

like really early.

This was probably even pre the Sam Rockwell epiphany,

is that he was really going to be more modeled

after Chief Brody in Jaws, that he

was going to be kind of a family man Sheriff, and then.

That's why we the wife in the all of that.

But then looking at how this was going to be a TV show,

we wanted to do something a little bit more

with the Sheriff character.

We also didn't want to copy Jaws.

We want to do something different.

And so we wanted to give him more

of an interesting complex backstory.

And that's where we, and so suddenly,

he no longer has a pregnant wife.

He has a wife who he's divorced from or estranged from.

And he had, they had a daughter together who died.

And that, what we liked about that is it

gave us real emotional stakes in terms

of this, what's happening now in the present day in terms

of the investigation, in terms of the search for the missing

boy, in search of Will.

He's lost a child, so suddenly, it

takes on more meaning to him, the search

for the search for Will.

That, of course, leads naturally to a connection with Joyce,

right?

Because she's lost her son.

So they have both lost a child, and perhaps he

thinks in bringing her, saving her child,

he can kind of sort of redeem himself.

So suddenly, we're like OK that's a character.

That's a fully fleshed out are and we've

got an anchor so we sort of we're

starting to understand who Hopper is.

So we also do this with other characters, but not all of them

are that fleshed out.

That came to us, and obviously, this all mostly stuck.

Other characters let's look at like our description of Lucas,

nerd dungeon master, dresses in black,

glasses, LOTR, that's Lord of the Rings, fantasy books,

video games, unkempt.

That's nothing really like the Lucas that is in the show

at all.

Dustin, we describe as diminutive.

I mean, there's not much else we're talking about Dustin.

This is not-- these are not very evolved characters, not

in the same way that Hopper is.

And that's OK, because sometimes this stuff

is going to come very quickly like hopper clearly

in a quick little brainstorming session as is documented here.

We got his whole backstory, and we got his arc.

That is not going to be the case of every character,

and you don't want to beat yourself up

because that's not the case.

It's OK.

So some of this is not going to be right,

but you've got to throw it out.

And the stuff that stick is sticks is going to stick.

And stuff that doesn't is just going to go away.

Again, it's nobody's going to read this.

It doesn't matter.

Yeah.

When you're working on these characters and developing it,

one good thing to do that, we do a lot

is we mind our own lives, whether it's

childhood or the life we're living now and looking

at our friends or personalities that we in trying

to be inspired by that.

And because you really want these characters to feel real.

And so I think that can really help flesh

a character out is just looking at your own life.

I think Joyce initially started out

a lot more like our mom.

I think that was the initial sort of prototype

is we were basing her a little bit more on our mom.

And some of the friends were based on Dustin

and stuff were based on our friends growing up,

little kernels of them, right?

So that helps.

Sometimes it helps to give them a physical characteristic,

I mean, anything that will help you see them,

start to think about what they're

interested in, what they like.

And specific things can help.

So if you look at this example for Mike, so we said he's shy.

We said birthmark along his neck, face,

kids make fun of him for it, so that's,

we're starting to get actually a little bit more specific.

Whether it's physical, or it could be a stutter,

it could be a million different things.

But sometimes that can be a shorthand

for the audience to start to understand

who this character is.

And then as we moved into the show,

we realized we didn't need that to define Mike.

And I would also say in terms of the shy,

we originally basing him a lot on sort of us we were

pretty shy kids growing up.

And so I think it was a shorthand for us

to write that character.

Then we see Finn Wolfhard's audition, it evolves.

Finn is not a shy kid.

That character evolves.

And I think it evolves into something

that was more interesting, more specific to the show.

But it's OK to start with your life.

And you can always let it evolve either in the script

or pass the script once you actually move into production.

So just as your story is going to have sort of go from A to B,

Will's missing we got to find Will.

So you've got a drive, and you're going to have obstacles

along the way, right?

You're going from one point to another point.

And again, there are going to be a lot

of little points between Will missing and finding Will.

Otherwise, you don't have a show.

So there's going to be a lot of stuff in between.

But it's important to know where you're going with it.

And it's the same with the characters.

Mike starts off as shy, not very confident.

He falls in love, comes of age.

It's a very broad character arc, but it is the character arc.

Hopper is broken due to the death of his daughter.

By finding Will, he's able to find some sort of redemption

for himself.

And he's able to find himself again.

That is a very simple arc.

And I think again, you're going to want to pick the characters.

You can't give everyone this incredible arc.

We have a ton of side characters in Stranger Things

that don't have a big arc.

The arcs aren't going to feel satisfying or earn

because you're trying to give everyone this amazing arc.

But at that point, what ends up happening is

or we find happening is you end up

shortchanging the characters who you want to have this.

You have the great arc plan for them.

You're just going to end up shortchanging those characters.

So it's important to focus on the ones who are really

essential in terms of arcing.

And the other characters are going to be great characters.

They just might not have this sort

of grand emotional arc in the same way

that Hopper does or Joyce or whatever.

And of the kids, we gave Mike the biggest arc

in terms of him coming of age.

But for Lucas and Dustin, their arc is even much simpler than

Mike's.

We don't have time for them to go through that full journey

that Mike does in season one.

They fall apart.

Their friendship breaks apart, and they're able to mend it.

I mean, Dustin kind of starts like nerdy and awesome

and he kind of is a nerdy and awesome at the end

even though he's still confident in who he is.

So you know, he doesn't have a big arc,

but he's a really great character.

But you're going to want to pick and choose

which of those characters you want to give full arcs to.

So you're going to have these arcs or some of them

right now where you're A to B, we

know where Hopper is going to end up.

We know where we want Joyce to go.

We know where we were on Lucas and Dustin to go.

We know where we want Mike and 11 to go, just roughly, A

to B. We don't know the journey, but we know roughly

where we want them to start and end up.

So what's interesting about writing a pilot script is

you're just doing the A. Their journey is just beginning,

you can't get them to be.

So for instance, Hopper, right, we set up

that he's popping Tuinal.

But we wait until the end of that pilot script

to even reveal that he had had a family

and that his daughter had died.

And we use that as oh wait, there's more to this character

than I thought.

But we don't even explore it.

We just tell you, the audience that

at the very end of the episode.

And then we know, and anyone reading the script

is going to know.

Oh, this is an important part of this character,

and I know they're going to continue to explore it.

But don't race it.

Really, we're just setting up who these people, are

and we're starting them on their journey.

But that arc for Mike for instance,

he meets 11 at the ending of the pilot.

He's not coming of age yet.

He's just meeting the person that's

going to change his life.

But we don't know how she's going to change his life.

We don't know that she's going to change his life.

We don't know that.

So we're just starting them off on their journey.

So I think sometimes, and this has happened with us.

We want to race along too far.

Lucas and Dustin are best friends still in the pilot.

We haven't even hinted at any discord between them.

We're going to wait.

I think it is a big mistake that some people make

in terms of, and we make it all the time.

We have to keep reminding ourselves simplify, simplify,

simplify.

Slow down.

And slow down.

You get very excited, and you try

to cram way too much into a single script, just,

and everyone's always they're worried

about they want to get across.

They want to get across that this is a great character.

They want to get across yeah, you want to tell everything,

all your ideas about Hopper.

Slow down.

You have time.

It gets going to get overwhelming,

and the script is not going to work,

so just a little bit at a time.

Simplicity is your friend.

Yeah, this is just step one of many steps.

Yeah.

In terms of when we're developing characters, I mean,

there's a lot of tricks we can do.

Like we said, we pull a lot from our lives

and from people we know.

And then there's also something that's, I don't know,

it's been effective for us in terms of we

take a character who is a stereotype,

the jock, the cheerleader.

The nerd.

The nerd or whatever like Steve whatever

is the perfect example or Nancy is a good example of something

who starts out of this stereotype, someone

who the audience thinks that they know.

The good thing about that is immediately you go,

OK, I think I know who this person is.

So they're comfortable.

They're like, OK, this is the douche bag jock, right?

And then you flip that on its head.

So you go wait, there's more to this character than you think.

This is something that John Hughes who's

a writer director we obviously look up to a lot

did all the time.

I mean, it's the classic Breakfast Club thing.

You meet all these characters.

You have each of the characters assumes

they know the other character based

on these stereotypes, these assumptions that they've made.

And then over the course of the film,

you kind of peel back those layers,

and you realize there's a lot more to them.

What it does is it gives the audience something

to hook onto and go, OK, that's the nerd.

That's the cheerleader.

That's the douchebag boyfriend.

That's the thing.

But what we like to do is real life isn't that simple.

No one can be that easily defined.

But again, just be careful you don't have

to peel back much in the pilot.

You can just hint at it or even not at all.

But for Hopper for instance, two lines at the end of the pilot.

Oh, someone says he lost his kid.

Thanks for coming out teach.

We really appreciate it.

She died a few years back.

Sorry.

His kid.

That's it.

We know there's more to him.

And we're going to go into that further,

but we're just hinting that there's more beneath this

and just like right just a cop.

The other important thing, right, and I've

touched on this a little bit is that these characters are

going to surprise you.

So they are kind of living, breathing things.

I think if you've created a good character,

and what's going to happen is and you

have to stay true to their character, right?

So as we said there's going to be a drive,

and you're going to throw obstacles in their path.

And you're going to kind of a little bit watch

how these characters are going to overcome that obstacle.

And I think if you're doing something,

and it's not organic to who they are as a character,

it's going to be pretty obvious it's

going to feel really wrong.

And so oftentimes, this is what's

cool about writing is they become very real in a sense.

Because you don't want to manufacture.

You don't want to force them.

They're going to kind of a little bit do their own thing.

And what's fun about that is they can often surprise you.

So hopefully in your blue sky and you've

come up with some possible characters

that you want that you think you need to tell the story that you

want to inhabit this world.

So you're going to make a list now of possible characters.

This is a good something that we did and you saw us do,

and it can be really helpful.

You're going to make a list.

You can come up with names if you want.

Just pick three to five that you think

are necessary to tell this story.

And then start to flesh them out.

Don't do that for all the characters just some of them.

You have an idea that pops in your head.

Oh here's a good idea for an arc for this character.

Jot it down.

Or just say this is Lucas.

He's a nerd.

He wears black.

He has glasses.

He gets bullied.

It can be that basic.

But just come up with that initial list.

And I think it's going to be really helpful as you

move forward to the next stage of writing.

Where'd it go?

Where is it?

Will!

OK, so now that you have, you know, some of your characters

roughed out or some ideas for the characters,

I think it is worth thinking about the world

that these characters are going to inhabit.

So this setting-- we had talked about this a little bit

in terms of we didn't do a lot of research

when it came to Montauk and ultimately Hawkins.

It was small town by the beach, whatever.

But I think something that's worth doing

is start talking about sort out the mini settings

within your bigger setting, the locations

that your characters can exist in.

So for "Stranger Things," for instance,

you got Mike's basement is a major one.

You got the core--

ROSS DUFFER: The, gym the junkyard.

MATT DUFFER: The gym, yeah, junkyard,

and you don't have to do a "Lord of the Rings"

style or George RR Martin map.

Just write down some of these locations

that really could offer a really good setting

for certain scenes.

It's just nice to start--

again, you're not going to have a super in focus

picture of your world at this point,

but it's gonna start coming a little bit more in focus.

So you have some characters now.

Start to think about that setting

that they're gonna inhabit.

And I remember, like, early on season three, we came in--

we had a writers room at this point, and we came in

and the writers had done this exact exercise,

enlisted a bunch of possible locations

that would be fun to explore in season three.

And one of them was a mall.

And we went, well, that's interesting.

That would be a fun place for our characters to inhabit.

So it's possible that one of these locations

ends up becoming more important to your plot.

So it's always a good exercise.

Season two-- season two was tunnels.

I remember we're just like tunnels are cool.

Like--

ROSS DUFFER: It's our very thing.

MATT DUFFER: Yeah, we all like tunnels,

and then that does sort of become

a major part of the season.

And one of my favorite things in the season

are all those sort of underground tunnels

that the kids have to navigate in the finale.

ROSS DUFFER: So, again, you don't

need to know how it's going to play a role in your script.

It can just be a good exercise to start filling out this world

and going, OK, well, in their journey maybe

they could go here.

Maybe they could go to the mall.

Maybe they could go here.

You're just filling it out, more detail.

You don't have to use any of this,

but it's going to be it's going to be good to have.

Yeah.

There's another version in terms of your setting

or your world where it's not based in reality at all, which

is what we had with this other dimension in "Stranger Things."

Now it wasn't super developed initially

when we were first coming up with the idea in the pilot.

You saw some of this rough idea we had of, like, a mouth

leading to the other world and all of this,

but one thing that we had talked about early on is--

and some of this was for budgetary reasons and also

we were very much inspired by "Poltergeist."

We didn't see that world where the little girl was taken.

So it was in-- for us, it was like, well,

that might be scary if we never actually see it.

We never see it.

We never go into the upside down.

We're only hearing it over--

that was-- right?

It was the initial idea.

We're only hearing it over walkies.

We're only hearing it over radios or whatnot.

So it was like it would all be left up

to the imagination of the viewer.

Yes.

And ultimately that went away pretty quickly

as we started to write the show because we

realized this is a show.

This is not a movie.

I'm starting to get antsy.

I want to go in there.

I want to see what's--

I want to see what.

We still limited how often we went in there,

but we did go in there.

And then that forced us to evolve it more

and actually explain what this world would look like,

but when we wrote the pilot--

and you'll see in our outline and when we actually go

into more detail in the pilot--

we didn't know a whole lot.

It didn't even have a name in terms of the upside

down wasn't even what we were calling it.

In the beginning it was called the nether,

which is more of a placeholder.

The upside down name came about later

in the writing of episode five when

Mike is trying to explain where Will is,

and he flips a D&D board over and says upside down.

What if this is Hawkins, and this is where Will is,

the upside down?

And that just sort of stuck, and that just

became the terminology to which we've

referred to this other world.

And then practically, we had to do something very simple

because we kind of do a huge visual effects extravaganza.

And so that started to effect what this world would actually

look like.

But, again, you know, so you can start--

you can start to-- you can be pretty vague at the beginning

here, and you don't have to have it all figured out.

If you're telling a show this is an eight-hour process,

you're not gonna have all eight hours

fully mapped out at this point.

Well, I think it's important.

So it just-- to reemphasize something

my brother's saying there, when we're going in

and we're pitching to Netflix, we're pitching the show,

and we have the pilot, it's not called the upside down.

There's no-- there's--

the spores and the vines, I mean, none of that none of that

is figured out, and we didn't get

hammered by Netflix about that.

It was like could you describe the mythology

of this other world.

Like, they don't-- whatever.

They get it is a scary other dimension.

You're going to figure--

you're going to give it-- figure it out.

I think something that is intimidating to a lot of people

and it was certainly intimidating us

when we started is you see these products

and they're fully done, fully formed,

and you just get overwhelmed.

It's like how am I going to figure all this out.

And the answer is one step at a time.

Like, so a lot of this stuff wasn't even figured out

when we sold it to Netflix.

So that should relieve a lot of pressure

from you to not get overwhelmed and it's just a little bit

at a time.

And even as you're writing your script

it's not going to all be figured out.

So allow--

It's going to be a process.

Even after we had written the pilot script

and we were meeting with people, we

did start to get asked questions about the world,

and that forced us to sit down--

And think about it.

And think about it and talk about it more and whatnot.

And it'll evolve.

It'll start to evolve, and then eventually when

we decided we have to go in there once we started

moving into writing later scripts for Netflix,

we went, OK, what could this world look like.

We talked about "Silent Hill."

We talked about "Alien."

We talked about the aesthetics of it.

Again, that wasn't figured out on the pilot stage,

and that was-- in our instance, that was OK.

Again, it's going to be baby steps.

All of this is to say it's good

actually to say simple and vague and you're fine.

It's not-- don't expect it to be fully formed at this stage.

Don't try to make it fully formed.

Just stay-- continue to stay zoomed out.

Similar to the aesthetic or whatever

of the upside down of this alternate dimension, we have

this sort of psychic space that 11 exists in, which was we

called the black void where she's

in just completely black space.

And, again, you know, that came about, we realized as we were

writing it, I mean, we had--

we needed a way to visualize how 11 was

using these psionic abilities.

We wanted to be kind of in her head

as she was doing these things and she

was making psychic contact.

It was like, well, how in the world do we visualize this.

We don't have a bajillion dollars to do this all CG,

and we didn't want to do it that way.

We wanted to keep it simple.

And practical.

And we wanted to do it practical.

There was a movie that came out "Under the Skin."

Now-- that Jonathan Glazer made with Scarlett Johansson

where he had this really cool effect.

It's like a really simple effect where Scarlett Johansson was

in this strange--

just surrounded completely by black.

And I think did maybe he did have--

Some reflection.

Some reflective [INAUDIBLE] it's been a while.

But what's interesting-- you know,

it's worth pointing out a couple of things.

A, that's an idea that came much later that evolved as you're

working on the script.

It wasn't there when we sold the script just like the upside

down wasn't really figured out.

It was something that came to us and also that it was very much

inspired by another film that we had seen

and a film that is completely unlike "Stranger Things."

I mean, it's kind of almost an experimental film.

"Under the Skin" is.

It's a weird film.

So it's good to watch all sorts of types of movies, not just--

don't just watch-- if you love Marvel movies,

don't just watch Marvel movies.

Try watch everything because even if it doesn't--

the tone of "Under the Skin" is so different than the tone

of "Stranger Things," but it still had an element in there

that was really helpful for us.

And inspiring and I think and again it could be a painting.

It could be a photograph that you love.

It could be in the case of the spore-like aspect of the upside

down.

It could be a video game.

MATT DUFFER: Yeah, that came from--

that was inspired by "Silent Hill."

ROSS DUFFER: Again, you're going to be looking

at things love and things that inspire you,

and that's a perfectly valid thing to do.

For this assignment, just start making

a simple list of locations where your characters can exist.

MATT DUFFER: It can be as basic as a bedroom a gym or tunnels.

Start simple and have fun.

So hopefully as you're doing your blue skying,

you're working on your characters,

you're working on some setting, stuff

is starting to become a little bit more into focus.

And we did talk about how your characters go from A to B,

especially your most important characters.

They have a little arc from A to B.

What we haven't talked about as much

is a story arc 'cause your story arc is also going

to want to go from A to B.

Now if you have a very sort of simple drive to your story

as we did in "Stranger Things," which is Will's missing.

We have to find Will.

So all of our characters in season one

have the same drive, which is to find Will.

Hopper had it, the kids had it, the teens have it,

which and those are sort of what we talk about as

are each of those is a different generation,

a generational storyline, which is

one of the early ideas we had that we were excited about.

And they all have the same drive,

which was really helpful on season one,

and it helped really unite the season.

So we know that everyone's going to go

from A, which is Will disappears and this thing happens

and changes their lives.

B, we're going to find Will, right.

So we know that, which is great.

But within each of those storylines,

they're going to have sort of an individual arc for how

they get from A to B.

And as we were developing this season--

and it's even in our pitch to Netflix

where we talk about each of these generations

and we talk very broadly about their story arcs

as in they start here on A and they go to here on B.

We did not have a lot of detail about that journey from A to B.

We put in a few ideas, a few ideas we had,

but we didn't put a lot because what

all we wanted to communicate-- and all

that was really important is we knew

where their starting point was, which is in the pilot,

and where their destination was.

If you don't know their destination,

it's going to be challenging because you

don't know what to set up at their starting point.

So you really do need to try to, if you can,

have at least a broad sense of where you want them to go.

You know, obviously so we have this big story arc,

but one thing we found when we were blue skying

is that we wanted to have three groups of characters, right.

We wanted to have kids, we wanted to have teens,

we want to have adults, and that each of them

was going to have their own little mini

arc within the big arc, the big arc being find Will.

So they would each be kind of-- they

would each be moving towards that goal

but in very different ways.

And it was like, since they all have the same drive,

how do we differentiate them, right?

Like, it was like how do we-- they all have the same goal.

How is that going to go?

Find Will?

Aren't they just going to be colliding and overlapping

the whole time?

We're like, OK, so it's just we thought about as

one big puzzle, and they're each going

to be solving one big piece of the puzzle that's

necessary to find Will.

So the kids are solving one piece of the puzzle,

the adults are solving one piece of the puzzle,

and the teens are solving one piece of the puzzle.

And then we thought in the penultimate episode,

so we were going to have them all combined.

So we're going to have all three generations combine.

They're going to share their information,

they're each going to have a key piece of information

vital to saving Will, and then they're

going to use that so join forces and ultimately save Will.

But if you removed one storyline, it wouldn't work.

They would be-- they would not have

one key piece of information that's necessary to save Will.

He would get eaten by Demogorg.

He would get-- right.

So we found this, like, to be, like, kind

of a really effective structure for the show for "Stranger

Things" and as much as it changes from season to season,

so as different as two is from one

and season three is from one, they all kind of

have that core structure which we have.

We splinter our groups, and they're all

in their own sort of adventure or horror story.

But every time they're learning some essential piece

of the puzzle, they kind of come together

and put all their information in their brains

together in order to solve the greater mystery.

That's a story arc that's very specific to what we discovered

in our blue sky process.

But I'm hopefully as you're doing your blue skying,

you're also coming up with a structure that works

specifically for your story.

One thing that's going to come up inevitably

if you're developing a television show

is this idea of, OK, what is.

Is this a one off?

Is this a limited series?

Is it multiple seasons?

Do you need to start figuring out what

those multiple seasons are?

Our opinion is that can get really overwhelming if you

start doing that right now.

I think that when we were developing "Stranger Things"

specifically, it was going to be a one off.

It was going to be a season one.

We knew we were going to get asked the question of,

OK, inevitably if this thing is successful,

you know, what does this season two look like?

Can this-- does this have potential to continue?

The answer seemed pretty obvious.

It came to us-- you know, wasn't-- it wasn't hard it was.

Like, OK, well, we knew they were going to find Will

and they were going to rescue Will

and they were going to bring him back home.

Will's been-- we don't know what's happened with Will.

Like, we knew he was going to be off screen

for the majority of the season, that he was going to come back.

So we knew if there were going to be

a continuation of the story that we're

going to have to focus on Will.

He's been in this alternate dimension.

We don't know what the hell happened to him.

We knew that was a story arc that we would pitch,

and that's honestly all we pitched

when we went into Netflix because I

think the key is developing a really great first season.

I mean, we're all about just taking it one step at a time

because otherwise you get overwhelmed.

In our opinion, it's so hard to just tell a story

and tell a simple story well--

That works.

That works.

Yeah, that just works.

And certainly for our first script,

that was just the drive.

Can we tell a story that is very simple

and that works that keeps the reader turning the pages

and then goes from A to B. And I think that really

should be the focus right now.

Because guess what, if you tell a great story,

you're going to find a way in to tell that sequel

or the second season or whatever it happens to be,

but really I think the goal right now

should be to just focus on let's tell a simple cool story.

It has a goal, and you achieve that goal

at the end of this story.

As we're talking about developing an arc-- in fact,

this applies to everything we've talked about right now,

which is just stay pretty zoomed out.

It's overwhelming enough, in my opinion,

to just get a good pilot script.

Don't start thinking about your seventh season arc.

Don't write a 30-page world-building mythology book.

Don't write a 20-page back story for each character.

I mean, listen, you can do that.

I just worry you're never going to finish your script,

and, again, you're going to get lost in the--

I really think you're going to get lost.

It's so easy to get lost.

I know Ross and I are not the only writers

who this happens to.

We're just-- lose sight of where you are.

So to us-- and we've made that mistake.

I mean, I've lost years of my life doing this.

I'm trying to save you years, which is just

stay really zoomed out, keep it really simple in terms of arcs,

in terms of characters, in terms of setting,

in terms of everything that we've talked about.

As we go forward with this class, what we're going to do

is we're still pretty wide, right,

and then we're going to just slowly start

to do this until you have-- until you have your pilot

script.

And even from then, it's going to continue to evolve and get

more specific.

Don't get overwhelmed.

It's like the eye doctor, you know,

where they're putting in different lenses,

and it just, like, it's going to start out really blurry

and it's going to keep getting more and more focused.

And I think that sometimes you're

just like why can't I see.

Why is it all blurry?

That's [INAUDIBLE]--

Or you're doing-- like, I'm doing it's so blurry

and unfocused.

I'm doing something wrong.

It doesn't look like this finished movie

that I just saw this weekend or that finished show

that I just saw and I loved.

Why is it not that good?

Why is it not that specific?

My characters aren't that good.

Like, they shouldn't be at this point.

[INTERPOSING VOICES]

And I think what happens in a lot of people

then they get frustrated, and they go, oh, well, whatever.

I can't do this.

And then-- and then they abandon what they're working on.

It's like--

Or they give up.

They don't want to-- they're like I can't write.

I can't do it.

But, like, we never saw ourselves as writers,

and I do think that there's a way

that you can take this process and you take it slow.

I mean, but even now, even having

done this for quite some time now constantly,

we start to see ourselves get lost,

and we go, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Zoom out, zoom out, zoom out.

We say that all the time in the writers room, right.

Zoom out, right.

Zoom out.

We take a step back, take a breath,

and go OK, what are the big beats here.

What's the A to B?

Is that working because we're going into details now

in something's missing from the bigger picture.

So blurry is good right now.

OK, so at this point, you know a little bit more

about your setting.

Hopefully a little bit more about your characters,

a little bit more about your story, and your story arc.

And I think it's worth taking the time

to sort of write that down because

right now, your document, if it looks

anything like our document, it's going to be kind of messy or--

Chaotic.

Extremely chaotic and messy.

So just-- I think it's worth-- it's not

going to be super time consuming, this part

of the process, but just carve out the ideas that you don't

need any more, focus in on the ideas that are good,

and just write a clean organized one page

description of your concept and your idea including

now some-- a little bit more detail about characters

and about the setting that they exist in.

And the antagonist.

I mean, if you just think about our Steve and Dustin example,

now we haven't had a week or so to blue sky that,

but if we had, imagine the details

that we could start to add here.

Who-- who is Dustin's dad?

And where exactly was he living, and who

are these other thieves that are going after this treasure?

And what is it actually that is lurking within those mines?

There were so many things in that initial paragraph

that we're missing that if we had had a week of blue skying,

we would have been able to start to fill in those details.

And then we've got a pitch.

Yeah, right, you have easy, easy page, easy page.

You might have a little bit over a page.

Let's fine, a page and a half, whatever.

But try not to make it too long because I think it's good

to keep it, again, simple.

Stay wide, stay zoomed out.

So now that you've got your big idea,

it's time to move into the outline stage.

I know you're going to have this feeling, this impulse,

of, like-- you're very excited about your idea, right?

And you're going to want to jump immediately into script.

We would really highly encourage you

to resist that impulse, because you're

going to run into problems.

That's how you get lost in the woods.

That's how you lose sight of where you are.

You can lose years of your life to this process.

You can have a script that you just can never finish

and you end up throwing away because you get frustrated.

It's worth taking the time to plan and to figure out

exactly where you're going while you're still zoomed out,

before you dive in.

Before you really zoom in.

So that's why we're big, big proponents of the outline.

The way we see an outline is that it's very much--

it's like a bird's eye view of your script.

Sometimes we look at a script as,

like, you're building this house, right?

And so looking at your last assignment,

you have sort of a one page foundation.

This is what you're going to build your house on.

It's like the concrete on the ground,

and you're going to build up from there.

So you don't just start throwing up beams, or walls,

or painting things, or putting in doors.

What you're going to do, is you're going to do a blueprint.

You're going to do a drawing.

And that's really the next step.

And so that's what this outline is going to be for.

It's going to let you see the big picture before you actually

start spending all the time in actual construction.

And I think, again, you're going to have this--

you're going to want to even rush through this stage.

I think you're going to have--

the instinct is going to be, let me get through this outline

stage as fast as possible so I can get to the script,

so I can get to that beautiful house.

Again, we think you should resist that.

You should spend longer on the outline stage

than on the script stage.

At least we do.

We spend probably twice as long on the outline stage

as we do on the script stage.

Because if the outline is good and strong,

the script is going to write itself very, very quickly.

Hitchcock would come to his first day

on set of a new movie.

He would say, all right, the picture's over.

Now I just have to go and put it on film.

And why he's saying that is because he's done the legwork

prior to getting there.

He's got his storyboards.

He knows the lenses he's going to use.

He knows when he's going to cut.

He's cast his actors.

Every major choice has been made.

Now the filming of the picture is almost a formality.

And we're going to take that and apply it

to the script stage, where the outline is

where you put in all the legwork and you make the choices.

The actual writing of the script is more just,

you're making it pretty.

You're putting the final touches on.

But it is like Hitchcock with his films.

It's more of a formality.

The big decisions have already been made.

So there are a lot of different ways to outline.

Ross and I have, over the years, kind of refined and developed

our own process of outlining.

We do it in two stages.

The first stage is what we call the scaffolding outline.

It's kind of the outline of the outline.

It's a rougher, sketchier version of the outline.

So it's an even more zoomed out version of an outline.

Say two to three pages.

Just the big, big beats.

But again, just like Matt was saying with the blueprint, very

easy to adjust and move around.

You're not in the weeds yet.

And you want to focus on getting that right.

So once you get the scaffolding outlined

so you're really happy with it-- you know,

it's like just two or three pages, right?

Then you move into what we're calling the final outline

stage.

And that'll be a full, fleshed out, more detailed outline.

Once you get that right, then you'll

be ready to go into script stage.

So if you're scaffolding outline is two to three pages,

your final outline should be anywhere

from around 10 to 15 pages if you're

trying to write an hour long pilot script.

And one thing we would suggest is just

to really take your time with this part of the process,

because if you get this right, we

promise you you're going to have a good script.

And it's also very easy and malleable,

like Matt was saying.

This is the time to play around.

You'll see, as we go through, how

we developed "Stranger Things," and how

we wrote an outline for "Stranger Things," how often we

were changing things, moving things around, and trying out

different scenes.

This is the time to play around.

Before you go in and start breaking down

each of the storylines, something that maybe you

thought about in your blue sky process

is, how are you going to open this story?

Because generally what you're going to want to have,

in most cases, is you're going to want

to have an opening hook.

And an opening hook is just something

right away, right as you start your script, that really--

well, it hooks the audience.

It draws them in.

It's something exciting or mysterious.

Whatever it is, it sort of gets them into your story

and propels them forward.

If you think about a famous example,

take "Raiders of the Lost Ark."

You're starting in media res, meaning the story's already

in the middle of progression.

You don't know where you are.

You're in some sort of jungle.

You learn that this guy is raiding this tomb that

has all these booby traps, and there's

a giant rolling boulder, and there

are other people chasing him.

It's all very exciting.

He escapes on a plane.

There's no way you're going to stop watching,

or stop turning those pages, because you're enthralled.

But you don't really know who this guy is.

You don't know what he's doing or what his goals are,

and the mystery draws you in.

Then it slows down.

It introduces who Indy is.

We see him at school, we see what he's teaching.

And then we set up the main tension, or drive,

of that movie, which is to find the lost Ark.

But those scenes, post the beginning, are much slower.

But what the beginning gets you is, the audience is like, OK,

I'm in.

This is an exciting story.

Now we can slow down, we can take our time.

We're going to tell you who this character is.

We're going to set up our main drive.

Whereas, if you take that opening hook away,

suddenly I'm not as invested.

I'm just watching a teacher at school.

I'm not as drawn into the story.

So that's a very elaborate example of an opening hook.

For "Stranger Things" it was not so elaborate.

MATT DUFFER: In the case of "Stranger Things,"

it became Hawkins National Lab.

We see that something mysterious is going on.

There's alarms.

We see that this lab is on fire and there's

a scientist burning.

Later in the shooting script, this

changed to the scientist being chased and killed

by an offscreen monster.

That's it.

It's actually a very sort of simple, straightforward opening

hook.

And then we cut to suburbia, and we see our kids

playing Dungeons and Dragons.

MIKE WHEELER: The Demogorgon!

But what it gives us is this sense of mystery.

This sense of, oh, something bad is happening in this town.

And what does it have to do with these kids

playing this fantasy game in a basement?

And so suddenly the audience goes, oh, OK.

This isn't just some typical coming of age story.

There's something more sinister going on here.

And it puts you on edge a little bit,

and it just keeps the reader turning

the page, which is what's so important about an opening

hook.

So when we set about writing the outline for "Montauk,"

or what became "Stranger Things"--

and this is the next thing you should do, really--

is break down or figure out, what are your main storylines?

What main storylines are you going to be following?

Yes.

In the case of "Stranger Things,"

we identified those storylines as Hopper, Joyce, Mike,

and Eleven.

Those were the four main stories we

were going to be following in the pilot episode.

And then so what we basically start doing

is we just break down the beats of each of those stories.

We're not showing you the order of the pilot yet.

We're just going, OK, let's take Hopper

and let's see what are the beats of his story?

And we just go through that with each of our main storylines.

Now there's a good question here,

which is how many storylines should you have?

And I guess it just depends on your story.

So we found with "Stranger Things"

that four is kind of the sweet spot.

If we start following more than four storylines,

it starts to get muddled, because you're away

from a storyline for too long.

Like we have five storylines, that

means you're away from Eleven for too long,

and you can't get hooked or engaged by her storyline,

because you're away from her for too long.

So four is kind of our sweet spot.

We try to limit it to that.

But you may also have a story where you really

have just one major storyline.

I mean, if you look at "Breaking Bad" for instance, right?

You've got Walter White, who's a really strong A-storyline.

It's less of an ensemble show than us.

So if you are "Breaking Bad," you're going to have a Walter

White as your A-storyline most of the time,

and he's going to be really leading the charge.

And then you're going to have a subplot or two

that are much less intricate that you're

sort of weaving throughout.

But what we're going to talk to you about

is how we do "Stranger Things."

Which, again, in this case of the pilot, it's really--

while there are additional little other scenes,

like with the scientists--

Nancy.

And Nancy-- the main storylines are these four.

And we're going to go through how we broke down

each of those four storylines.

MATT DUFFER: First we zero in on Hopper, OK?

And then we figure out, what are the beats within his story?

What is a story beat?

A story beat is basically a scene.

Hopper, in the pilot, has five story beats, or five scenes.

ROSS DUFFER: So you just go by letters.

Like, A, B, C, D, E. And the key here

is that each story beat leads directly to the next.

So the end of story beat A is setting up

what story beat B is.

Story beat B goes to C, C to D, D to E.

And hopefully the most exciting moment

happens on E. So what happens is then, when these storylines all

go together, all the big exciting moments--

They build.

--it just gets more and more intense.

It builds, and builds, and everyone's most exciting story

beat is at the end of the episode.

And it has this sort of crescendoing effect,

and it gives you the climax to this particular episode.

If you imagine you're stacking them,

they should be building on one another, like Ross is saying.

But it should have this sort of forward momentum.

You should never be paddling in place.

If scene B is doing the same thing

as seen A, or scene D has looped back

and is doing the same thing as A,

the audience is going to get impatient.

It's just like you're treading water.

So you want it to have--

you want it-- this is something at least Ross and I do-- we

always want it moving forward.

We want it pushing forward.

And we'll show you a little bit how we did that

with each of our stories.

So, you know, especially--

I mean, this is really a little bit more specific to pilot,

but beat A, really you're just going

to be introducing your character.

That's it.

Just introduce your character, and that's

the first scene you're going to be introducing them.

Just seeing them in their normal life.

This is who this person is.

If they're already in action, then we're

not going to even understand who this character is.

So let's just take it nice and slow and just be, like, hey,

this is Mike Wheeler.

He's a nerdy kid who likes to play Dungeons

and Dragons with his friends.

That's a beat.

You don't need to do more than that.

Beat B is usually the inciting incident.

And the inciting incident is important.

That's what's going to set your character in motion.

So something is going to happen.

Something a little bit out of the ordinary

that's not something that happens every day to them.

In the case of "Stranger Things," the inciting incident

for most of all of our characters, Will goes missing.

They learn a boy has gone missing.

That's the inciting incident.

It's really what we talked about earlier, which

is the drive.

The main drive of your storyline needs to kick in around here.

Something goes wrong, they're set on some sort of task.

You need to find the lost Ark, if you're Indiana Jones.

Whatever it is, that's happening around here.

This is getting the second beat.

So we've hooked the audience, we've introduced our character,

and now something's happening.

Something's changing in their life.

Someone's been kidnapped.

There's a murder that's happened.

Whatever it is in your story, something's

kicking off your character's drive.

And now it's like they have a goal

that they're trying to achieve.

Which, in the case, of course, of "Stranger Things,"

is Will's gone missing.

We've got to find him.

So the minute Will disappears, that's our inciting incident,

and it's going to end up kicking off the drive for all

of our characters.

So in B you've set up your inciting incident.

You've set up your drive.

You set up, kind of, the main tension for your character.

The "let's find Will."

So then obviously C is going to be starting to look for Will.

Your first simple beat of the search for Will,

usually in the case of "Stranger Things,"

they're going to take the most obvious avenue first.

OK, well, where was he last?

He was in the woods.

So you're going to have a scene of them searching the woods.

Whatever.

And then he's not going to be there.

Obviously, right?

So they're going to be, like, oh,

this isn't as simple as we thought it was going to be.

Beat D, they're going to have to take a detour,

go a little bit deeper into their search.

And eventually that's going to lead to the final beat,

E, which, as Ross said, is going to be the most exciting beat.

So hopefully it's something a little bit surprising.

Like the search for Will leads to something surprising.

In the case of, like, Mike and the boys,

it's discovering Eleven.

That's a turn.

It's not what they expected.

So they have their drive now.

They're going to try, initially, with beat C,

do whatever is the most obvious.

And then we're going to throw an obstacle in their way.

That obvious solution, obviously doesn't lead them to Will.

But they learn something else, or find

something else, that then leads to the next beat.

We throw a new obstacle.

Well, we can't find Will in this way.

It's not that simple.

But then, like Matt's saying, something surprising happens.

They find Eleven.

And you go, OK, well--

you're leaving the audience on this sort

of a bit of a cliffhanger of, OK, who is this girl?

What does she have to do with Will's disappearance?

They're intrigued to keep going.

And you just keep building on it from there.

New obstacles.

What happens next with Eleven?

Well, she clearly knows something,

but she won't tell our boys.

There's a new obstacle.

So we just keep throwing obstacles,

and you just keep building on it, beat, after beat,

after beat.

So the boys, what do they find in the woods?

They don't find Will, which is an obstacle.

He's not here.

But they find this mysterious girl, Eleven, in the woods.

And that really becomes a cliffhanger

to their story, which ends our episode.

And it makes the audience want to find out what happens next.

Who is this girl?

So a cliffhanger-- that's really what a cliffhanger can do.

We're not giving answers yet.

We're not telling the audience who this girl is.

We're not even finishing what that scene was in the woods.

They just spot this girl, and we just cut out.

And hopefully you're leaving the audience going,

oh, I want to find out what happens next.

I want to see how these boys interact with this girl.

I want to know, does this girl have the answers

to what happened to Will?

So we cut it off short before we get the answers

to any of those questions.

So that means the audience is going

to want to continue the story and they're

going to want to watch, hopefully, episode two.

We try to enter episodes at a point

where the audience is just going to really want more.

They're going to want answers to what

happened in the final scene.

I mean, sometimes we do more of a classic cliffhanger,

where we leave a character in grave danger.

So we did this in season one.

I think it was episode five, when

Nancy crossed through a tree.

She's searching for her lost friend,

and she finds herself trapped inside the upside down.

Nancy!

MATT DUFFER: And so we ended it right there.

So obviously people want to know what happens to Nancy.

Is she going to live or not?

So they click on the next episode.

The question is, is Nancy going to survive?

That's just a very basic, simple question,

but it's going to drive your audience

to wanting to keep finding out what happens next in the story.

So now that we've talked about a cliffhanger,

and we've talked about generally what these beats should do,

we're going to step you through what we wrote out for Hopper,

and his beats in the storyline.

And this is taken directly from our scaffolding outline

for the pilot script that we wrote in 2014.

Right.

So here it is.

Hopper, story beat A. We say, "see him at his shitty shack

by the ocean, drinking, et cetera, pictures of family,

he's clearly fucked up.

See him getting to work and dealing

with normal, simple town stuff/deputy."

Again, like we said before, story

beat A should really be just introducing this character.

So this is how we decided it was best to introduce,

Hopper which is just--

we set up his home life.

We hint at the fact that he used to have a family.

But again, we're not giving answers to that yet.

But we're just foreshadowing what's going to come later.

And then we see him in his normal life.

And the scene doesn't have to even

have dialogue, which is the instance of Hopper's

introduction.

We're showing it purely visually.

So let's look at story beat B, which is--

so Hopper's next scene is, he "learns about disappearance."

That's all we wrote.

Again, you can be very simple here in the scaffolding.

You don't have to figure out how he learns about it.

You don't have to figure out that scene.

In fact, don't.

That's what he's going to be doing.

And that, of course, is the inciting incident

that we were talking about earlier.

He learns about a disappearance.

This is something a little bit out

of the ordinary that comes his way.

And again, if you have more ideas,

if you have an idea for what that scene would be,

sure, jot it down.

But we recommend not getting lost in the woods here.

He learns about his disappearance.

You can see how simple and bare bones that is.

Baby steps.

And then we go into Hopper story beat

C. We go into just a tiny bit more detail here.

We say he "investigates scene of the fallen bike.

No sign of Will anywhere.

Sees strange town car."

So, again, as we mentioned earlier,

story beat C is he's learned about the disappearance.

This is Hopper's inciting incidents.

He now has to find this boy, right?

And so what is his first thing?

He's going to go look where he first disappeared.

He finds his bike, but not much else.

Very simple beat.

And then beat D is him continuing his investigation.

Ideally C would lead a little better to D

than we have right now, but anyway, he goes to look at--

But actually, you know what?

It did work in the show, because he got--

he goes there, and Hopper doesn't

think this is very serious.

He thinks Will has just, like, run off.

Right?

But he goes to the woods, and he gets a bad feeling.

Something occurs there that makes him a little bit uneasy.

Why would he just abandon his bike?

Boys don't just leave their bikes.

So now he's starting to go take this a little bit more

seriously.

That takes him back to Joyce's house.

And so story beat D. So this is the fourth scene for Hopper.

He "speaks with Joyce at her house,

finds something strange."

Again, we're really vague here.

We didn't spend time brainstorming

what it is he finds strange because that doesn't really

matter right now.

But we're hinting that maybe there's--

we're going to introduce something

vaguely supernatural here.

Again, we're just--

Hopper is going from, oh, this kid's missing,

I better go look for him, to, OK, this

is starting to escalate into something serious.

And he's starting to get concerned.

And then we go into Hopper's story

beat E. Let's see what we wrote.

"Maybe they begin to sweep the ocean for a body,

but Sheriff is skeptical.

Sees town car from earlier again.

Follows it to the radio tower.

The hell is going on in there?

Beginning of a mystery."

Now, if you've seen the show, and you remember the pilot

episode, a lot of this didn't actually happen in the pilot.

But this was what we wrote in the script,

and this is what we sold to Netflix,

is that we wanted to get Hopper to the point

where he was starting to sense that this is somehow connected

to this lab.

And what ended up happening as we were developing this show,

is we started to slow some beats down.

For instance, we have Barb get taken at the end of the pilot

as well.

We were moving things a little faster

than we needed to once we really got into the story.

And we started to push some of that, including this,

to later episodes.

And what we ended up doing is just--

he is unnerved, as Matt says.

He's getting concerned.

But instead of doing a story beat

where he's connecting to the lab already,

we just reveal that his daughter has passed away.

So we just ended up revealing character for him,

as opposed to story.

But either way, I think what's important to take away here

is how simple these beats start out.

Just a couple lines.

Or in some cases-- "learns about disappearance--" one line.

Very, very simple beats.

And also, it's actually surprising

how little time you have.

Not a lot has happened here.

We set up the character, we get him started on his journey,

he senses something bad is happening,

we reveal a little bit about his backstory, that's it.

That's plenty to do for Hopper's storyline.

We're trying to tell you generally

what these beach should be, but you're

story is going to dictate stuff.

We spend a long time, when we are learning to write, going,

oh!

The inciting incident has to happen here on page 15!

And you're just going to end up forcing it.

As long as the story is flowing, you're going to be OK.

So, again, stay zoomed out, keep working it, and go from there.

So once you've written out all the main beats

for your characters, the next step

is to do what we call a weave.

So this is where we weave all the storylines together,

because obviously they're separated out.

We just have Hopper, separated from Joyce,

separated from Eleven.

So what you want to do is--

This part's fun.

--you want to weave those stories together.

And so all you're going to be doing--

roughly the story will be dictating

which scenes should go first.

But you're going to play around with scene order as you go,

and just kind of feel out pacing.

Yeah.

And then you'll read it through.

Pacing will be off, you'll reshuffle it,

read it through again.

This is why it's good that everything

is bare bones and really simple right now.

It's very easy to just cut, paste, and move it around.

Like a little shuffle board.

You can look at what we did here.

We start with Mike, A. Then Hopper A, then Joyce A. Then

it goes to Mike B, and Joyce and Hopper B.

And what's interesting about our--

structurally, the one thing that's unique, I would say,

about our pilot is then we go, Eleven A. So we're waiting.

Eleven doesn't really come in through about halfway

through the story.

Once we've kicked off everyone else's storylines,

then she comes in.

Then we do Mike C. And then we go back to Eleven.

Eleven B. And so what we're doing

is we're just taking those beats that we've

written for each character, and we're

putting them together and making sure

that this whole thing flows as a story.

I would say normally, like when we first do it--

say we have four storylines, right?

It usually goes AAAA, and then you returned to the first A.

Then you go BBBB.

Then CCCC.

Then DDDD.

EEEE.

And usually it never breaks down that simply.

And you'll see, for pacing reasons,

you may not want to order it exactly like that.

For instance, we held off, as Ross was saying, on Eleven.

Again it's not a science.

But I would say, whatever A is, whatever--

A being one of your main character

storylines, and generally what you want that to be is--

even on something like "Stranger Things,"

we're going to have a storyline that's

weighted a little more heavily, I

would say, than the other storylines.

And that's going to be dependent, episode to episode.

So for this one, we're starting with the kids.

With Mike and D&D. That storyline

is weighted just a little more heavily

than the Joyce and Hopper and Eleven storylines.

That way we know, when we go back to that

and their storyline is moving a little further and faster

than everyone else's, it just gives it a little bit more

of an engine as you move forward.

And I think something else we think about--

again, we initially start AAAA, BBBB--

but sometimes those shuffle around.

And the reason is, something you want to think about--

or we do quite a bit-- is just want

scenes to juxtapose in energy.

I'm sure you've seen movies or shows where

it's just action scene after action scene

after action scene.

And it kind of wears you down, and you start zoning out,

and you're not excited, even though the action

in and of itself is exciting.

There's amazing visual effects, or whatever.

But you just kind of get worn down.

And then there's the opposite, where

you have three long talky scenes in a row,

and you start to fall asleep.

And people are going to change the channel at that point.

So what we want to do is--

you don't want the energy of every scene

to be exactly the same.

And that's going to help you figure out your order.

So you'll read it through, and you'll go,

oh, I don't know if I want these two monologues right

next to each other.

But maybe that monologue will sit really nicely

after that exciting action.

Or maybe after that monologue, let's

go to a really energetic action sequence,

or a really scary sequence, to give the audience a jolt.

I think you can just-- we're real big advocates of just

kind of feeling it out at this stage.

You'll sense when it's starting to get bored.

I mean, one thing that we do, is we just read it through.

And if my eyes are starting to glaze a little

bit, or I just lose focus in terms

of what I'm reading when I'm reading my own material--

I mean, you'll get bored by your own material.

Trust me.

You get bored, then you go, OK, something's wrong.

Let me reshuffle or rework this a little bit.

When all is said and done and you've broken down

each of your beats of your scaffolding outline,

it should look something like these pages here that we have.

And as you can see how simple it is--

it's like a page and a half.

Each one has four to five beats.

Again, this isn't a science, but you can go--

OK, roughly if each of these beats

is, say, three and a half pages, we

can then see how many beats you have.

In this case, it's--

I believe it's around 17.

Yeah it's 17.

It's 17 beats.

So this is the only math we're ever

going to suggest that you do sometimes.

Which is, you can go, OK, 17 times 3.5, equals 59.5.

That means you've got about a 60 page script, which

is about perfect for a pilot.

And again, it is not a science.

It's not going to end up exactly 59 and a half pages.

Right.

Right.

Some of these beats are going to end up short.

But some are going to be long.

And hopefully it's going to be roughly like this.

Because we've certainly done this exercise, right?

Where we do the calculation and we're like,

this episode's feeling long?

How is it?

And it's 200 pages, or something ridiculous.

And we go, whoa!

What are we doing?

And you have to go back in and dive it down.

So you don't have to do this calculation.

But sometimes we do it just to give ourselves

a sense of where we are and making sure

we don't end up writing, accidentally,

a 200 page pilot, which obviously would not

be a good situation.

So now we've gone through how we

built our scaffolding outline for "Stranger Things."

I think it's worth you taking the time

to build a scaffolding outline for your own script idea.

The way you should probably start here

is to identify the main storylines for your episode.

In our case, remember, we had four major storylines.

And then you want to identify the beats within each

of those storylines.

So start with one storyline, and then figure out

all the main beats.

Probably four to five beats.

Four to five.

Like Eleven had three beats.

So fewer beats.

So it could be anywhere from three to five beats

for each of those storylines.

Once you're happy with that, then weave them together.

And then read that weave through.

It's probably not going to flow perfectly the first time.

Then reorganize it, shuffle it around, try it again.

Maybe you need to delete a beat.

Or whatever you need to do, to try to just get this flow as

good as you can get.

And once you've done that, you'll

have your scaffolding outline.

So hopefully, now, you have a scaffolding outline that you're

feeling pretty good about.

That's great.

That's a huge step toward writing this script.

So the next step, really, is to take

this scaffolding outline and you're

gonna start to flesh it out.

And you're gonna create what we call our final outline.

So what this really does is you're gonna take those,

say, two pages of a scaffolding outline

and you're going to turn it into 10 to 15 pages.

So you're gonna, basically, start

by going in scene by scene.

And you're gonna start adding in a lot of details.

You're gonna add description.

You're gonna go into more, the actual beats of the scene.

You're even gonna write some basic dialogue, if you want to.

So you're really just starting to make this thing come alive.

How can I make this great and as exciting as possible?

So again, one scene at a time.

Hopefully, it ends up being around 10 to 15 pages.

And this is what you're gonna take to script.

So what we'll do now is we'll look at the final outline we

had for "Stranger Things."

You'll notice how messy this is.

Like, excuse the typos, but we-- we didn't wanna clean it up

for you guys, because we wanted you to see exactly how it

was when we did it.

This is, again, just for you at this point.

This is not for anybody else.

So messy is OK.

If you want to clean it up, your version, that's also fine,

if you-- especially if you're sharing it with someone else.

This is something that, until now,

we've never really shared with anyone but ourselves.

So this was, again, just for us.

And it's still the process we use to this day.

We then, though, do clean it up, because we do

have to share it with Netflix.

But this is exactly our process, even today.

So let's take this what-- let's go through this first scene,

which is the D&D scene.

And we'll show you, you know, in the scaffolding outline,

it was, essentially, kids play D&D. And now,

let's see what it's become.

And we use a lot of dashes, just--

Lots of dashes--

--just so we don't have to worry about punctuation while

we're doing this.

"Water sprinklers, hissing, arcing across a pristine lawn."

And then, we widen to reveal we're now in suburbia.

"We take a moment to survey our surroundings.

Fall, leaves blowing, chill in the air, beautiful.

One-story houses wind up the street.

Identical, uniform, hatchback cars

in driveways, power lines--" OK.

We're getting a little over descriptive.

Here, "Families watching TV through the windows.

Our attention settles on a mundane two-story house

tucked away at the end of the cul-de-sac, lights

glowing within.

The mailbox reads 'The Wheelers.'

Overlay voiceover of a boy talking about darkness, danger,

and the imminent death which awaits them."

"We now cut into this boy's room."

We got "a group of 12-year-old boys play

'Dungeons and Dragons' cross-legged on the carpeted

floor, Star Wars posters on walls,

miniatures on the ground on a gridded map.

We meet our Dungeon Master, Mike Wheeler.

He has a birthmark along the side of his face, shaggy hair.

His friends, Dustin, Will, Lucas,

sit beside him cross-legged.

Dustin is overweight in a black t-shirt

and wears a Viking helmet."

That didn't make it in.

But when we're trying to establish he's playing a dwarf.

"Will has a purple robe and wig.

He's a wizard."

He wasn't wearing it, but he is still the wizard.

MATT DUFFER: Yep.

ROSS DUFFER: "Lucas wears a plastic chain.

He's playing a knight.

They are riveted by Mike.

He's a hell of a storyteller.

Attacked by evil monsters.

Will is scared. 'Shit, shit, shit.'" So we're getting

a little basic dialogue in there.

"Dustin says, 'Don't be a wuss,' says they should stick

together.

Will takes offense.

I think this is Will sort of became Lucas.

But yeah, "'I'm not a pussy.

I'm a great wizard.'

They get into an escalating argument.

'Guys.' They slam into one another,

knock one another down."

That didn't actually happen.

"Suddenly, bam, bam, bam, there's knocking on the door.

It's Karen.

She swings open the door, 'Hey, all right.

That's enough.

You're making a racket.

Holly's just gotta go to bed.

No buts.

Game over.' Mike deflates."

And then, "Mike follows his mom

past Holly's room, downstairs, still pleading.

'Come on, mom.

15 more minutes.

'No is no.

It's a school night, too late.'

Behind him, Dustin and Lucas trail.

And Will and they argue.

'You're such an idiot.' 'You're an idiot.'

Suddenly, Dustin pauses.

We follow his gaze.

He is looking in on Nancy's room.

The door is cracked.

She's on her bed on the phone, cord

wrapped around her fingers, legs kicked in the air.

Dustin gawks.

Nancy notices.

'What the fuck?

Get out of my room, freak.'

'I'm not in your room, technically.'

Wham, she slams the door on him.

A beat and then Dustin explodes outside beaming.

'Guys, Nancy just talked to me.'

Mike covers his ears.

He can't listen to this. 'Shut up.' 'Her boobs.'

'Shut up.

I'm not listening.' Will asks, 'Hey, can you guys play again

tomorrow?' 'Yeah, tomorrow.'

They bike off and then we have a little bit of dialogue

describing, I think, what they're doing

as they're backing off. 'You need to cast a Spell

of Protection.' 'I think we should hide behind that

column.'

'No.

We need to push them to the side.'

the sound of their talking fades.

Mike is all alone again.

He shuts the garage door.

It grinds shut."

And so we-- I don't know why we don't have the flickering

light in here.

But, somehow, that wound back up in the script.

I don't know why that went away from the-- from the outline--

the scaffolding outline.

But as you can see, as we read that out, it's

not exactly what ended up in the final script, but it's pretty--

pretty, pretty, pretty close.

Even some of that dialogue stayed the same.

We figure-- found some stuff, like cast a Spell of Protection

later on in here.

We moved that up earlier.

But the general beats are there.

We got a little descriptive on the neighborhood and stuff

and we stripped some of that down when we went to script,

just to make sure the pacing-- but, again, we're really

starting to fill this in.

It went from the kids play D&D to, suddenly, now,

we've got a lot going on.

We're introducing these characters

when we're describing the beats that happened.

And I think what's really important is--

and the way you do something like that--

say you have-- in your scaffolding outline "Kids play

D&D."

Well, you're not gonna just write

a scene about kids having fun, playing D&D. That's not

really much of a scene.

And how are you gonna get across their various characters?

Because that's really the purpose of this scene.

Remember, story beat A is you're trying

to introduce your characters.

And that's what we're trying to do here.

And one really effective way to do it is through conflict.

What it allows is that we get to see, through this conflict,

how each of them wants to tackle defeating this demogorgon.

We get to see a little bit of their characters in the way

that they respond to this conflict, right?

So we have Dustin, who's a little more--

He-- he's a little bit more careful.

He's a little bit more prudent and cautious.

Pragmatic.

Pragmatic, you might say, right?

He wants to cast a Spell of Protection in the scene.

He wants to protect them.

He wants-- he's a little bit more

taking the defensive route.

Then, we have Lucas, who's a little bit bolder, a little bit

more courageous, in terms of his style.

He wants to-- he wants to just go for it.

And then, you have Will, who's just shy and unsure

and a little bit lost.

He doesn't know what to do.

And he really is looking to his friends

for answers in terms of what he should do

and how he should tackle the demogorgon.

So he's clearly not the leader in this situation.

And then, you have Mike, who's the ultimate, ultimate leader,

because he's the Dungeon Master and he's running-- basically,

leading the entire session.

In this very simple scene, where the conflict is simply

how to defeat an imaginary monster in a silly game of D&D,

we're learning a lot about who each of these characters

are, just in terms of how they're handling the problem

that they're facing.

And we're also setting up the conflict

to come between Dustin and Lucas and that their approaches

of things are very different.

Now, this is just a game.

But it's gonna end up applying to real life later.

And if you remember their story arc,

in terms of they're falling apart and then, you know,

getting back together, that's gonna play a role later on.

And so we've now introduced our kids.

And then, we know, also, in this story

beat, we need to introduce Mike's family,

because they're all gonna play a role.

And again, how do we do that?

Mike?

ROSS DUFFER: Through conflict.

Mom, we're in the middle of a campaign.

You mean the end?

15 after.

The mom says, you can't play D&D anymore.

And so, again, stakes are very low at this point,

because we're just introducing these characters.

This is their normal life.

But through conflict and Mike arguing with his mom,

we're gonna be able to meet the mom.

We're gonna be able to meet the dad.

We're gonna be able to meet Nancy.

So in not very many pages, in-- in this case,

in this outline, just a couple paragraphs,

we're getting across a lot of characters.

Hopefully, it's a fun scene.

And we're-- we're really setting the stage

to-- of what's to come.

And so, again, the engine that's driving it, because we

do not have a drive yet--

so what we're doing is we're creating conflict

within this scene to give it that engine,

to keep you turning the pages, and to introduce

these characters in an exciting and fun way.

So you're gonna do what we did with that D&D scene

for each of your scenes, for all of your story beats.

You're gonna end up with something in the 10

to 20-page range.

Maybe it's a little too long right now and it's 25 pages.

That's fine.

Don't freak out.

What you're then going to do is you're gonna read it all,

from beginning to end.

And you're just gonna see how it paces and how it flows

and what's working and what's not working.

And we promise you, it's not gonna be completely working.

I don't think we've ever written an outline

and read it through the first time and had it work.

Even though we felt good about the scaffolding,

I think as you flesh it out and read it through,

you're gonna realize that there are

other issues you didn't see--

Pacing issues and--

Maybe this scene here is just, like--

it's in the way and-- and it's killing the pacing.

And can you figure out a way to get that information across

in an earlier scene?

And so you're gonna keep--

basically, you just keep working on it.

Or you realize, oh, wait.

Do I really need this scene?

There's no way you're gonna write this all out

and it's gonna work completely perfectly.

So--

Like, for example--

here's just one of many examples.

In the pilot, we had an early storyline with Eleven, right?

Who's-- she's being held in the base before she escapes.

OK?

We now return to the military base, radar spinning around.

We cut inside the base.

We're traveling down a dark tunnel.

We find a young girl is being held in a captive--

in a windowless room.

There's a tattoo on her wrist.

There's a single lamp and the agent is interrogating her.

She's shaking, crying.

"It's not my fault."

She's hinting that something took this boy.

What took the boy?

What boy?

I can hear him.

I can hear the boy.

He's screaming.

She begins to cry.

And then, they shut the door on her.

OK?

So remember how we talked about how

we ended up having Eleven's storyline go halfway

through the script?

It's because we had so much to introduce

in the first half of our pilot that we didn't really

have time to do an Eleven introduction scene.

So instead, we sort of caught her--

we-- we go back into this-- this-- stuff like this

later when we do flashbacks.

What we did is we just cut to her.

She's already escaped the lab.

And she's going to Benny's.

And that way, it saved us a room to introduce

Mike and Hopper and Joyce and all of that

up front, because we cut out a scene like this,

because it was just hurting the pacing.

And in fact, it improved when we introduced Eleven and didn't

even know that she came from the base.

It gave us an-- an air of mystery

that we actually ended up liking.

So this whole scene just ended up getting cut.

Now, this is gonna look like more work

than it is, because a lot of this is cut and paste.

But we're cutting scenes, tweaking scenes,

moving stuff around.

And it's dozens and dozens and dozens of pages of this.

Because at this thing, you're writing this on spec, right?

This is-- you don't have anyone else to hold you accountable,

except yourself.

Yes, you can share with people.

But the most important critic is gonna be yourself.

Keep reading this thing.

Keep molding it.

Again, this stage is the stage where you can change

things and delete things.

Writing that scene that I just talked to you about,

about Eleven being interrogated by an agent in the lab,

that would've taken hours and hours to write.

Even in script form.

In script form.

That would've taken a long time.

And then, you would've-- so if you can cut it right now,

it's a lot easier.

Because to do little rough dashes, like we're doing,

is fast.

You can, quote, unquote, "Write scenes in the final

outline quickly.

You can delete them quickly."

So you've gotta just keep reading this thing.

And don't be afraid to move stuff around, to delete stuff,

to say, hey, you know what?

This storyline just isn't working.

Let me reevaluate.

And then, you can always go back into the scaffolding stage

and go, OK, I'm gonna break these beats again.

We do that all the time.

It's just gonna be a process.

And again, I think we had--

when I-- when I went through to gather all this for the class,

we had probably 150 pages of this outline,

just over and over again, just keep on working it.

One thing that's also important as you're doing these scenes

is something that--

that we always try to do is you can

have characters' inner rooms, but not even a lot of the time.

You can just cut to them in this location.

And then, don't have them exit the room.

You don't need your characters to always go.

Occasionally, this is fine.

But a lot of the times, it's just completely unnecessary.

You don't need them to go, OK, let's find Will.

OK, guys.

And then, we don't have to watch them.

Like, everyone gets up, grabs their backpacks,

leaves the room.

That's just what we call shoe leather.

It's unnecessary to the story.

If you go, OK, we're gonna go find Will,

you can cut to them finding Will.

For instance, in-- in the pilot episode

of-- of "Stranger Things," or "Montauk,"

we have Hopper learn from Dustin and Mike and Lucas

that Will often goes home by-- on a road-- what

they call Mirkwood.

And so next time we cut to Hopper,

he's already in-- walking down that road at Mirkwood.

We understand.

And we've also set up, from the prior beat, that that's

where he's gonna go.

We don't see him leave the school, drive over to Mirkwood.

It's really boring.

And I think-- I think that will kill your pacing

and just make your script longer than it needs to be.

So yeah, look out for that excess fat

and-- and cut it out.

So now that you have your scaffolding outline, right,

and you've woven it all together and you

think that's working, now, it's time

to do what we did with that D&D scene

and just start fleshing it all out.

So you're gonna take your scaffolding outline

that you've woven together.

And you're gonna go one beat at a time,

starting from the beginning, and you're just

gonna flesh out each story beat or each scene.

And you're gonna do that for all of the scenes.

And when you're done with that, you're gonna read it through.

Hopefully, again, this is in the 10 to 15-page range.

So it's gonna be a lot longer.

If something is really not working,

it actually is too overwhelming to try

to fix a major problem in this stage, just zoom back out,

return to the scaffolding stage, make some adjustments there.

Then, go back into the final outline.

Again, Ross and I spend longer on this stage on the outline

than we do on the actual script.

We almost spend double the time on it.

And we do that because we believe this is, aside

from developing the big idea, this

is the most important step.

This is you putting in all of the work, really.

And again, if you do this correctly,

then the script itself--

writing the script itself, you'll

never get stuck in that stage.

You'll never stick that script in a drawer and to never return

it.

You're gonna finish that script.

So just get this outline down.

Spend some time on this.

Spend a lot of time on this.

And get this right.

Once you have the final outline, you

can finally move to script stage,

which is what we'll cover next.

So now, hopefully you have your final outline.

I know it's been a-- a long journey.

If you've been working on this big idea of yours,

it's been a long journey to get here.

But now, we can finally safely move into the script stage.

So what you're going to take is-- again,

that outline should be relatively detailed.

So now we're just making it--

we're making it pretty.

We're formatting into the screenplay format.

We're adding in a lot more of the dialogue.

Again, maybe you had some ideas for dialogue,

but now you're going to add all of the dialogue.

You're going to smooth out all of your descriptions,

transitions from one to--

one scene to the next.

So you're really just putting on the final touches.

You're making your house beautiful and livable now.

So this is really the final step of this process.

So one thing we're not going to get into in this class

is how to format your script.

Most of these programs, whether you're

working on Final Draft or WriterDuet, which

is what we work on, it will automatically

format it for you.

And the best thing to do is just to look at, read, you know,

any screenplay, and you'll be able to see

pretty quickly how these studios want your scripts formatted.

ROSS DUFFER: Sort of scene heading and capitalizing

character names when you first meet them, all of that stuff.

There are a bunch of little rules.

They're actually very simple.

And again, you can find any information

you want on that online, so we're not

going to get too much into that.

It's very simple and straightforward.

So if you have a good final outline,

if you feel confident in that final outline

and that final outline is, indeed,

working, the script itself--

again, this is a little bit more of a formality.

Yeah, you're adding in dialogue.

You're making it pretty.

But it shouldn't take as long as the outline took.

At least it doesn't take us as long.

Yeah.

It usually takes us around two weeks

to turn a final outline into a final script.

And I think that is how long it took

us to write the pilot for "Stranger Things."

This is really just the formality.

This is Hitchcock showing up.

Picture's done.

Now I just have to film it.

I should mention, though, and this--

because this has happened to us.

It didn't happen with the "Montauk" pilot.

No.

But it has happened with other scripts that we've written

and it's happened to us with "Stranger Things" scripts

where you think you have a final outline that works.

You move into script.

You're writing the script, and just something

is just not working.

Actually, this happens to us quite a bit.

So that's normal, first of all, so you shouldn't be

distressed or upset about that.

What you really should do then is kind of what we were saying,

you know, when you're in the final outline,

how you maybe need to back out again

into the scaffolding outline.

So if you're in the script and something really

doesn't seem to be working, or you read it through

and it doesn't seem to be working, just go back a step.

Go back into the outline stage.

Revisit the outline.

If you're going to make any sort of major structural changes,

make those changes in the outline stage,

not while you're in the script stage,

because it's just too time consuming.

And I think another mistake sometimes people are going

to make is that they're going to over-write it.

They're like, oh, this is the-- this is a script.

That was just an outline.

Now I'm going to make it all-- write

all these fancy descriptions and all of this.

I'm going to show-- prove to everyone what a great writer

I am.

Try to resist that, and we're going

to go into more detail in a second in terms

of at least the way we write and the way that we

find is the most effective.

But you're not writing a novel here.

Even though this is a script, you're really just--

it is an outline for what is ultimately going to get filmed.

You don't want to write more than you-- than you need.

This is still going to be a bare-bones relatively simple

document.

So now what we're going to do is we're

going to show you a scene from our final outline,

and then we're going to show you how we translated

that scene into our script.

So you're going to see what stayed the same, what changed,

what additions we put in there.

Hopefully that'll help give you a sense

of how you can move from your outline into the script stage.

So the scene we're going to look at

is the scene between Eleven and Benny.

And if you remember back in season one,

if you've seen "Stranger Things,"

Benny is the owner and cook of Benny's Fish 'N--

well, it was a fish restaurant and became a burger joint

in the final show.

But anyway, he's caught Eleven trying to steal food from him.

And now he's feeding her and trying to figure out who she is

and what she's doing, is she a runaway, whatever.

So let's look at what that scene looked

like in the final outline first.

Back to Fish N' Fly.

Hiss.

Salmon hisses on a plate.

Again, so it was fish.

It turned into a burger.

Salmon hisses on plate.

Benny is cooking for Eleven some actually good cooked food,

fish or salmon or something.

They sit down together in a small kitchen.

Delicious, spelled completely wrong.

Scene where he tries to get info out of her, asks about it.

What's your name?

Where's your parents?

What are your parents' names, et cetera?

She finally speaks, but only cryptically, also spelled

totally wrong.

Says that something bad is coming.

Paranoid.

Sees headlights out window.

Nervous.

Someone's looking for her.

So Benny picks up on this.

Who is looking for you?

She won't say, but her little eyes are filled with fear.

Benny is concerned.

You stay here for now.

You're safe here.

She takes his hand, says something about his past.

I'm sorry about your friend.

I'm sorry he drowned.

Benny gets the chills.

How do you know about him?

El removes her hand, goes back to eating, finishes her food.

Benny is unnerved.

You want more?

El nods.

As El continues to eat, getting a second helping,

Benny gets on the phone, keeps his voice down

so she can't hear her.

Hey, Jean.

Hey.

It's Benny Hammond.

Got a little girl here.

I'm a little worried she's going to run.

Seems like she hasn't had a bite to eat in a year.

Hasn't spoken a word.

Abused, I think.

Must be a missing kid.

This is him hearing about Will.

Well, I've got a found kid right here.

I've got a bad feeling about this.

Jots down a number for social services.

So that's the final outline for the scene.

You'll see this is pretty close to what ends up in the script,

but there are some key differences.

But there are some key differences, yeah.

So Ross will now read that-- this scene in the script

for us.

Now I'm just going into the scene real quick.

Hiss, snap hiss.

An Atlantic cod fries in oil.

Benny tends it.

He slides a plate of fish and chips to the young girl.

She's seated at the table.

It's just her now.

Regulars are gone.

Her gown has been replaced with a Fish 'N Fry t-shirt.

It droops to her knees like a dress.

She stares at the food with wide eyes.

Benny-- figured you're going to eat my food anyway.

Might as well eat it right.

The young girl reaches out to pick up the fish, but--

I said, right.

Benny splashes hot sauce on the fish, nods okay.

She-- the girl snatches up the fish

and devours it, no utensils.

Benny-- your parents forget to feed you?

The girl doesn't respond, just keeps eating.

That why you ran away?

Still nothing.

They hurt you?

Nothing.

And you went to the hospital, that it?

But you got scared, ran off, found your way here?

The girl finally looks up at Benny.

Has he hit close to the mark?

It seems like she is finally going to speak,

but instead she nudges her empty plate over to Benny.

The message is clear--

more.

How about this?

You get more, much as you like.

But first, you've got to answer a few of my questions.

We got a deal?

No response.

We'll start easy.

My name's Benny, Benny Henderson.

He holds out a hand, wraps it around her tiny hand.

Nice to meet you.

And you are?

Still no response.

Benny sighs.

He starts to withdraw his hand when

he notices a small tattoo on the inside of her lower wrist.

It reads in simple black lettering, 11.

Eleven?

The young girl yanks her hand away.

What's that mean?

No.

Well, I'll be damned.

She speaks.

No?

No what?

Still nothing.

All right, guess no more fish then.

Benny takes her plate and starts to walk away when--

Eleven.

Benny turns back around.

Eleven.

Yeah.

What's that mean?

The young girl points to herself.

Eleven.

We then cut forward.

Benny is on the phone.

I won't read all this.

He's talking to Flor who's-- works for Hopper,

and he gets a number for social services.

Then we go back into the main room

where Eleven's waiting for her food.

Her legs sway beneath the table.

She becomes aware of a soft high-pitched noise.

Eee-eee-eee.

She looks up.

It's the screen door.

The wind is gently blowing it, causing its hinges to squeak.

Eee-eee-eee.

It is incessant, annoying.

She narrows her eyes.

The door stops mid-swing like it somehow froze.

Eleven looks away, content now.

Right.

So I mean, as you can see, mostly the same,

but there are changes.

We start with the fish frying.

That's the same way.

We cut to the-- we cut to them eating.

And then Benny is trying to get information out of Eleven.

That's the same in both.

And I think it's important here to sort of reiterate

that idea that we talked about earlier in the scene

when we were talking about the D&D scene, which is even

a simple sort of quiet scene like this, there is conflict.

There's even yes-- there's no yelling even

like in that D&D scene.

No one's--

I mean, Eleven's hardly speaking.

Eleven's hardly speaking, but there is still conflict,

the conflict being Benny is trying to learn who Eleven is

and if she ran from home and what is her name.

And Eleven is not giving that information.

Just like in the outline--

She wants to eat.

--she's not speaking.

She just wants to eat.

She's not-- wants to eat and she certainly doesn't want

to tell him who she is.

She's--

She doesn't-- she has trust issues, right?

Understandably.

Obviously, we add detail.

We're a little bit more specific about the type of fish

they're eating, you know.

We didn't spend time researching any of that

in the outline stage, so we started to look into, okay,

what kind of food would they--

Yeah.

--probably be serving at a place like this in Montauk?

So you do start to get a little bit specific, a little bit

more specific about what Benny's restaurant looks like.

They hurt you?

You went to the hospital, you got scared, you ran off,

you wound up here?

Is that it?

All right.

I'll give this back, all right, and you can have as much

as you want, all right, maybe even some ice cream.

But you got to answer a few of my questions first, all right?

Got a deal?

One change we do make, though, she's not speaking,

which is the same as the outline.

But in the script, we have Benny try

a new tactic, which he's trying to withhold food

from her in order to get--

Right.

--get information from her.

Because I think, as we went into scene, we were like, well,

there's conflict here that she's not speaking,

but we wanted Benny to be a little more active.

So we added in that beat, which is, I think, an improvement.

So again, the scenes are mostly the same,

but we're adding in stuff to make this scene a little better

and a little bit more dynamic.

And the same thing goes with-- yeah.

And there are two other key changes.

Yeah.

One is he sees her tattoo and she tells him

her name, which is Eleven.

And I think what's nice about this

is you're starting to have these characters connect

in more of a real way.

Benny is starting to care for her.

Yeah.

Hopefully the audience is starting to care about Benny.

They don't know he's going to die soon.

Yeah.

But it's something emotional that

is, I think, better in the final script

than it is in the outline.

The other key change we made, of course,

is we removed the moment where she

tells Benny she knows something about his friend who died.

She has--

Her psychic powers.

She's psychic, so she's able to read his mind.

We have a very similar beat, right,

where she stops the swinging screen door.

So it's still-- both beats are doing the same thing

or accomplishing the same thing, which

is revealing for the audience that Eleven

has psychic or psionic abilities, and it's exciting.

I think why it's better in the script is

it's just a little bit-- it's more visual, right?

I mean, you're seeing her use her powers

to physically stop something.

But I think the real reason we did

it was because it's better to have that

at the end of the scene as a way to punch it out.

It's good to have him calling social services

or writing down the number for social services

because you know the next beat is going to be,

quote unquote, "social services showing up."

So it is setting up the next scene.

Benny's going to involve more people here.

But that's not nearly as strong of an out

as Eleven demonstrating to the audience for the first time

that she has psionic powers, that she's

more than just a regular girl.

[FAN SCREECHING]

So that's a lot more of an exciting, quote unquote,

"cliffhanger" to end your scene on.

And it also creates a bit of-- whereas, before, Benny goes,

wait, there's something special about this girl, now,

he doesn't know that.

Only the audience knows that, so we're

creating a little bit of dramatic irony here where--

which is essentially, the audience

know something that a character does not.

So in this case, now the audience is aware that this

girl has some sort of special abilities, but Benny doesn't.

And that creates an exciting question

for the audience, which is what's going to happen?

Is Benny going to find out about these powers?

What's the next beat?

It gives us-- it sort of keeps, continues

to propel the story forward.

And like Matt's saying, I'm on my edge of my seat

now because this girl has powers and Benny

doesn't know about it.

That's much more exciting.

So we're continuing to take these scenes

and we're trying to elevate them.

But generally, the beats stayed the same.

As you're moving into script stage,

and you're going to start turning

this outline into a script, it's important to keep

in mind there are three key elements to every script--

description, action, and dialogue.

Those are the three things you're

going to need to practice and get good at.

And you're going to have to kind of figure out

what your style is in terms of how

you do each of those things.

And so Ross and I, when we were learning how to write,

the best thing to do is actually not

even to take a screenwriting class.

The best thing to do is just to read other scripts.

Read scripts from movies that you like.

Read-- you know, even reading bad scripts helps.

And the good news now is that with the internet,

most scripts are available online.

If you just Google for them, you'll

be able to find a PDF for almost anything.

You can read scripts to old classic films.

We would also suggest, though, reading some more

recent examples because screenplay formatting, which

I know we're not really getting into right now much,

but it has changed a lot over the years.

It's going to be a little more up

to date in terms of how we write and format scripts these days.

The best thing to do is to find a screenwriter

out there whose style you enjoy, who writes in a way that

feels a lot like you.

When we were learning how to write,

we read a bunch of scripts.

And we found a couple that really

spoke to us in terms of their style

that we really responded to.

And one is a script called "Panic Room," which

is written by David Koepp, which was made into a movie directed

by David Fincher and starring Jodie Foster and Kristen

Stewart.

So he's a great screenwriter.

"Panic Room" was a huge spec sale.

I think that's probably initially

why we wanted to look at that script.

We also love that movie.

And it's a really good script to learn because of the simplicity

of the storyline.

Its two characters trapped in one location.

But let's look at how he writes descriptions--

"interior, top-floor bedroom, day.

Evan, Lydia, and Meg poke their heads in a series of rooms one

after the other.

The two are flying by quickly.

First, an upstairs bedroom--

nice, roomy, looks out on the courtyard."

And then Evan says, top floor, two bedrooms, one bathroom.

And then in another scene heading, "interior, den, day.

Another floor, another empty room.

The trio passes through."

Why I wanted to illustrate this as David Koepp writes

a lot of his descriptions like this, which is they

are very bare.

I mean, he doesn't waste time describing what

any of these rooms looks like.

He's already described it as a New York brownstone.

He doesn't really describe it any more than that.

I mean, the rooms are empty.

But he doesn't go into detail describing

the color of the walls, cracked paint, any of that.

"Another floor, another empty room--" boom, in, out.

This script flies.

And that's one reason we liked it so much because, you know,

when we're talking about how important it is to get people

to just keep flipping the pages, there's

no way you could start "Panic Room" and not finish it.

The only important thing--

David Koepp knows this, right, because it's his story--

is that the only important thing about the top-floor bedroom

is that it looks out onto the courtyard.

So he puts that--

Yes.

--but nothing else.

But that's good because then it's

highlighting that factor, which is the only factor that's

going to impact the narrative in any meaningful way.

So he does underscore that.

But everything else he leaves up to the imagination

of the reader.

That's how you should do it.

And so I think if you look at what we wrote,

I think you can see how we took inspiration from David's style.

You can look at from the shooting script

of "Stranger Things."

This is early on after Will has--

he's encountered something in the road.

And he's gotten off his bike.

And he's trying to escape whatever this evil is

and get home.

And we say, "Will burst out of the woods.

Up ahead, his house.

It is small, one story, lower class, falling apart."

That's it.

You know, in a book, if we were writing "Stranger Things"

as a novel, we'd probably go into more detail describing

the surroundings, describing exactly how that house appears

and looks like.

What's the color of the walls?

Is the paint peeling?

Is the lawn overgrown?

You know--

Are these trees around?

You know, are there trees around?

What is the color of the grass?

We just skipped all of that because we want

the reader to fly through this.

We're giving them everything that they really need to know,

is that Will lives in a lower-class house.

And it's falling apart.

And in falling apart, they can start

to-- they can imagine that.

They get it.

And then you'll-- your production designer will fill

that in.

And you can work with your production design later.

I can't tell you how much time we waste it

early on when we are learning how

to write just trying to be fancy and show off with our writing.

No one cares.

What matters is get the information across you

need to get across.

That's it.

Move on to the next beat.

That's all you have to do.

No executive's going to be impressed by a big word

that you use.

You don't have to put a single big word in your script.

Just-- they're going to be impressed by a good story.

So that's description, very simple.

The same rules apply really for everything else.

It really definitely applies to action, I think.

I can't tell you how many scripts

we've read where the action is kind of over described.

We used to do that.

We used to worry about describing

every beat, every punch.

It's, like, you're not an action choreographer.

Like, you don't have to figure it all out.

Simple, clean is better.

So, again, we learned a little bit about this from David Koepp

in terms of how quick his action read.

And that's because he kept it very, very simple.

So let's look at another scene from "Panic Room."

This is a little bit deeper into the story.

The way David Koepp describes this

is, "Meg's thumb tenses for one good hard turn dash, dash.

Then in the bedroom comma Burnham leaps through the air,

hurtling himself toward the propane tank dash dash.

Inside the duct, Meg cranks the wheel.

A spark sparks, a flame flames.

And a hot blue cloud shoots out in two directions,

one toward the panic room, the other toward the bedroom."

He wrote that about as simply as you could.

He described only what you needed to know.

There's no flourishes about--

"a flame flames."

Like, it's so basic.

"A spark sparks."

I mean, it has a nice rhythm to it actually.

It's not-- it's good writing, but it's very, very simple

writing.

So I'll show you an example of how

we wrote this in "Hidden," which, again, is a bomb shelter

script we wrote that became a film for Warner Brothers.

So this is a scene where, remember,

they're trying to hide from these so-called monsters that

are on the surface.

They're in the bomb shelter.

One of our main characters, Ray, is trying to close the door.

But a Breather, who's our monster, rips open the door.

And we describe him as having "a powerful and hulking body,

heaving with every raspy breath, a untangle of appendages

drooping down his neck, and most terrifying of all,

glowing red eyes.

The Breather suddenly hisses, diving through the opening,

lunging right at Ray.

And whoom!

Something large smashes the Breather on the face so hard

and knocks him a few feet away from the door."

So again, it's very simple description.

It's also spaced out, which is something you can do to give--

allow your action room to breathe,

allow people to keep flipping through those pages.

Like, what we like to do is mirror the writing

with the pace a little bit.

So we could have smushed that all together in a paragraph.

But by spreading it out, it highlights--

--how fast.

--how fast it goes in each moment.

And also makes your script read really, really fast.

You're just going to keep flipping those pages.

What's going to happen next?

And again, very simple language, very simple writing.

So now we've talked about action and descriptions.

We should talk about dialogue.

So this is actually probably going

to be the biggest difference or biggest change,

the most work you're going to have

to do when you're turning your final outline into a script.

Yeah, you may have had some basic dialogue

in your final outline.

I think you saw that we had some very spare dialogue in there,

suggestions of really what they could be saying.

But it's pretty rough.

So a lot of it at the time-- and we said it takes two weeks.

A lot of that two weeks is going to be spent

kind of refining your dialogue.

But again, just like action descriptions,

we think simplicity is your friend here.

Often just like how action descriptions are overwritten,

dialogue is often overwritten.

Nobody talks like that.

And I think it's also worth looking again at "Panic Room."

We looked at how David Koepp wrote dialogue.

So Ross and I will show you our acting skills.

And we're going to act this out.

I'm going to be Sarah, and he's going to be Meg.

Sarah is the daughter, and Meg--

Meg is the mom.

You're the mother.

I'm Jodie Foster, yeah.

I'm Kristin Stewart.

All right.

All right.

All right.

We'll show him how it's done.

What do we do?

ROSS AS MEG: Wait.

MATT AS SARAH: What if they get in here?

ROSS AS MEG: They can't.

They can't get in here.

No, they can't.

MATT AS SARAH: I heard you.

ROSS AS MEG: Feel okay?

MATT AS SARAH: Yeah.

ROSS AS MEG: Shaky?

MATT AS SARAH: No.

ROSS AS MEG: Chills?

MATT AS SARAH: Mm-mm.

That's it.

That's it.

Well, okay, that's-- first of all,

you see why we went into writing and directing and not acting.

But also, you'll see how simple--

that simple that dialogue is.

It's, like, I mean, this is a kind of an extreme example.

But you know what I mean?

I like-- I like how quick it is.

Yeah.

I like that his dialogue reads really quickly here

because often people like that.

And this is a situation where they're really nervous.

The mother and daughter are firing back and forth first

really fast.

And something you also see--

and this is something we like to do

as well that David Koepp does-- is he has the mom, played

by Ross, repeating words.

So she goes, "they can't.

They can't get in here.

No, they can't."

She keeps repeating "they can't."

She's trying to reassure herself that they won't get in there.

But she's just looping.

And that's something you often don't see in dialogue,

but you do see and dialogue that's

written well because that's really how people speak,

especially when they're in these sort of anxious situations.

They repeat themselves.

I mean, we've been repeating ourselves over and over

in this class.

And the editors have just cut it out.

Blue sky.

Blue sky.

Blue sky.

Zoomed out.

Zoomed out.

More zoomed out.

Baby steps.

Baby steps.

Baby steps.

And throw in "you knows" and "ums" and uncertainties.

And we do a lot of dashes.

You don't have to do that.

But again, you want to messy it up a little bit.

Just, you want the dialogue to keep pushing forward.

You don't want it to always loop around too much.

You want to give it that forward momentum.

But you want to make it a little messy.

If it's too clean, if it's too perfect,

it's not going to feel real.

You've spent your whole life listening to people

and how they talk.

And so you just want to try to get some

of that realism in your script.

Again, it's a little heightened.

We're pushing it along a little more unnaturally

than it would be in real life.

But you've got to fill it in with those real-life details

to make it come alive.

And you also notice that he doesn't-- you know,

you'll see sometimes writers will put in parentheses.

They'll put a description of how a character is feeling.

So they'll put in anxious.

He doesn't-- or nervous to tell the reader and the actor how

the character should feel.

I think you should limit how often you do this.

So you'll notice here he does it on that line that Meg,

that Ross performed so beautifully, where he says,

Meg is nervous, is you're going, "they can't.

They can't get in here.

No, they can't."

He doesn't say anxious or nervous.

He doesn't tell you how the mom is feeling.

In fact, there's no descriptions here in this dialogue.

It's just a beautiful nice chunk of dialogue.

I don't think you should limit how often you're breaking up

dialogue with descriptions because it just

hurts the rhythm and the pace.

You get that the mom is anxious.

Again, your reader's not stupid.

Your audience is not stupid.

They understand the mom is nervous.

And that should come across in the dialogue.

If you're having to tell the audience that she's anxious,

that maybe your dialogue's not working so well.

Maybe you need to rework that line.

So now we're going to look at a scene from season four

to demonstrate how dialogue works in "Stranger Things."

This is a scene in episode four, where Robin and Nancy go

to Pennhurst Asylum.

And they're trying to convince the director

of Pennhurst Asylum, Hatch--

Impressive.

--to let them see Victor Creel,

who they really desperately need to talk to learn about--

to learn some key information.

So I'm going to read some of the scene.

I'm going to do the descriptions in Hatch.

Matt'll play Robin and Nancy in the tour de force.

So "interior Pennhurst Asylum, Director Hatch's office, day.

Director Hatch lowers the resumes to reveal our girl

sitting across from him.

As Robin tugs annoyingly at her collar,

Nancy hands him another paper."

MATT AS NANCY: And this is a recommendation

from Professor Brantley.

ROSS AS HATCH: Oh, I know Larry, quite well, actually.

The director scans the recommendation.

(AS HATCH) You know what they say, those who can't do, teach.

He tosses down the recommendation.

Robin continues to tug at her collar.

She's being weird.

Nancy gives her a look, stop it.

Then back to the director.

MATT AS NANCY: Yes, that's, um, actually why we're here.

We can only learn so much in a classroom.

ROSS AS HATCH: And I'm sympathetic to your struggle,

truly.

But there is a protocol to visiting a patient like Victor.

You have to put in a request.

Then you have to undergo a screening

process, at which point, the board will make a decision.

Robin and Nancy share looks.

This is not going how they hoped.

Robin tugs at her collar again.

Jesus, she's a mess.

(AS HATCH) I can see you're disappointed.

But I'm more than happy to give you a tour of our facility.

Perhaps you could even speak to some of our patients

in our low-security wing.

MATT AS NANCY: Right.

We love that.

It's just our thesis is due next month.

And--

ROSS AS HATCH: You're out of time.

And whose fault is that?

MATT AS NANCY: I--

I know.

It's just, uh-- yes, our fault, absolutely.

And I apologize.

But--

And I'm switching over to Robin.

(AS ROBIN) Don't apologize, Ruth.

Screw that.

ROSS DUFFER: Nancy shoots Robin a shocked look.

But Robin continues.

MATT AS ROBIN: The fact of the matter

is we did put in the request months ago and were denied.

And then we reapplied and were denied again.

And coming here was our last-ditch effort

to save our thesis.

And-- and I can't breathe in this thing!

She finally button's the top button, sucks in some air.

Nancy stares at her with wide eyes.

MATT AS NANCY: Rose, maybe you should

go outside and get some air.

MATT AS ROBIN: Maybe I should, Ruth, because you know what?

I'm starting to think that this whole thing was

a colossal mistake.

I'm breaking out in a rash.

My boobs hurt.

Nancy shoots daggers.

WTF.

Robin is ruining everything.

Yet Rose keeps going.

The truth is, Anthony--

may I call you Anthony?

Maybe we don't need any--

These aren't actually my clothes.

Blah, blah, blah.

She has a giant monologue here.

I would love to hear Matt read this entire monologue.

But I think Maya Hawke does it a lot better than he does.

So--

Rude.

So we're going to stop there.

But she basically does this entire monologue.

And she says-- she says that she-- they want--

all they need is 10 minutes with Victor.

But she appeals to his emotions here.

I mean, that's the key of it.

She appeals to his emotion.

She talks about how much it means to her

and how she wants to be exactly like Director Hatch

and how fascinated she is with the Victor Creel murders, blah,

blah, blah, blah, blah.

But she's taking a very different tactic here in order

to--

And then we say, off Director Hatch, staring,

we cut to dash dash "whoom!"

I'm back in 30.

ROSS DUFFER: A shocked but nevertheless very impressed

Nancy gives Robin a secret underhanded high five.

And then we cut to our next scene.

The reason why we think it works is

because, one, Robin and Nancy have a very clear goal, which

is they need to see Victor.

So that gives you an engine to the scene

and for this dialogue to work.

Though Nancy and Robin have the same goal,

they're on different wavelengths about how to go about that.

So when Nancy's doing this, she's

just trying to ask very politely.

Our thesis is due next month.

And you're out of time.

Whose fault is that?

Ours, absolutely, and I do apologize.

Don't apologize, Ruth.

Screw that.

Robin decides to go a very different tactic.

This is an instance where we said, well,

how the heck is she going to convince this guy?

And we thought this was an opportunity for her

to give a big speech.

And so there are going to be moments

like that where you're not being spare in your writing.

And you give something-- you're going to give

your character a monologue.

And that's okay.

But then we have Nancy, who's on a very different wavelength.

She's looking at Robin in horror.

This is not how this was supposed to go.

Hatch is sort of stunned by this whole thing-- everyone

on a bit of a different age.

I'm starting to think this whole thing is

a colossal mistake.

And that creates a lot of conflict

to keep that scene moving, moving, moving.

10 minutes with Victor, it's all I ask.

In order to have good dialogue, of course,

you're also going to have to have really strong characters.

They're each going to have to have their own sort

of unique and distinct voice.

You're going to find that kind of as you're writing.

But hopefully what's really going to inform their voice

is going to be a lot of that character work

you did when you were working on the big ideas

and the blue skying and the outline stage.

Hopefully you're starting to have a sense of who

these characters are.

And you're going to find their voice as you're writing them.

They should never be interchangeable.

So you should never be able to just swap

a Will line with a Mike line, a Hopper line with a Joyce line.

It's like, no, no, no, that's a sign

that line is not specific enough or unique enough

to that character if you just switch it at random.

That's a good-- that's one good way

of telling whether the voices are specific enough.

And just like in the D&D scene,

where their characters and their personality

has affected how they dealt with in that scene the conflict of,

how do we fight this Demogorgon, that's

going to really apply to every scene.

And it's their character that's going

to inform their point of view to how to deal with conflict.

And that's going to allow the audience

to even see more about who these people really are.

So just as a quick example, we're

going to look at another scene from the pilot.

This is where Joyce comes to Hopper's office to tell him

that her son is missing.

So let's take a look at a few lines from this scene.

In this scene I'll be Joyce.

okay.

And I'll read-- and you can be Hopper.

"Joyce paces, dragging on a cigarette.

She's on edge, so far out she might just fall right off."

(AS JOYCE) I've been waiting an hour--

MATT AS HOPPER: And I apologize again.

ROSS AS JOYCE: A goddamn hour.

MATT AS HOPPER: I understand.

But a boy his age most likely is playing hooky.

ROSS AS JOYCE: Not my Will, no.

He wouldn't do that.

He's not like that.

MATT AS HOPPER: You never know.

My mother thought I was on the debate team, when really I

was screwing Chrissy Carpenter in the back of my dad's boat.

ROSS AS JOYCE: Will's not like you.

He's not like me.

He's not like most.

Okay.

"She takes another drag of her cigarette, fights tears."

[CHUCKLES] Our actors make fun of us

for how often we write "fight tears."

We do like to do that.

Right.

Anyways.

The reason that this is worth looking at

is it reveals a lot actually about both of these characters

here.

You obviously have Joyce.

We describe her as, so far, "she's on edge so far out,

she might just fall right off."

And that's reflected in the dialogue.

But you notice in this section of dialogue,

we're not breaking this up with a lot of descriptions.

Yes, we take a beat to describe that she's taking

another drag of her cigarette.

But for the most part, it's just pure dialogue.

She's on edge.

She's upset.

And then Hopper is a little bit we've-- you know,

set him up as a character.

He's broken.

You know, he's taking this two and all.

He's not exactly-- he is, as we established

on the very first line we ever wrote about this,

he's Sam Rockwell not McConaughey.

He's not that action hero.

He's not going to leap in and be like, oh, my goodness,

your son's missing.

Let me go find him.

That's not the Hopper--

that's not the Hopper we know or that we wanted to write.

He's a lot more casual than that.

He's not necessarily a great police officer.

So he's being pretty casual about this.

And that's creating conflict.

Joyce is like, Matt's saying, extraordinarily on edge.

Hopper's point of view is--

Hopper's laid.

--eh, probably okay.

And he's even making a joke about screwing

Chrissy Carpenter in the back of his dad's boat.

That's probably not the right environment to make a joke,

right?

So you're starting-- I mean, listen, he's apologizing.

He's not a total asshole.

But he's got that laid-back, "I could give a shit"

attitude that is going to be rubbing Joyce the wrong way.

So anyway, it's a simple scene.

She's, you know, again, in the scaffolding.

And in fact, we showed you the scaffolding.

It was like, you know, Joyce visits Hopper's office

and asks him to find her son, right? it

was something very basic like that.

And then this is us fleshing it out with conflict

and with, you know, very specific character moments.

And then you even-- you can look at that next line.

Joyce-- "he's got a couple of friends.

But everyone else they dash dash.

They make fun of him, call him names, laugh at him,

his clothes."

You can see how we repeat "they" twice.

And again, that's just trying to get messy--

messy it all up a little bit.

She's nervous.

Like, we're saying she's pacing.

People repeat words.

People don't talk perfectly, and particularly when

they're nervous like Joyce is.

So we like to messy it up to give it a little more life.

And it's also fast.

We have-- this is, you know, at the very beginning,

"I've been waiting an hour.

And I apologize again.

A goddamn hour."

It's very quick.

They're almost on top of each other.

That's one reason we use dashes to imply that.

It's-- there's not a big gap between that dialogue.

They're basically stepping on each other.

It's very spare and quick and fast.

But because they're on different points of views,

it just keeps propelling that scene forward.

Joyce wants him to go find Will.

Hopper doesn't really give a shit.

I have been waiting here over an hour, Hopper.

And I apologize again.

I'm going out of my mind!

Look, a boy his age, he's probably just playing hooky.

No, not my Will.

He's not like that.

He wouldn't do that.

Well, you never know.

I mean, my mom thought I was on the debate team,

when really, I was just screwing Chrissy Carpenter in the back

of my dad's Oldsmobile, so.

Look, he's not like you, Hopper.

That's conflict right there, just like with the warden

scene.

Something else that we do that, we find is effective,

at least it helps us-- and I think it does help the reader--

which is we incorporate a lot of sound and descriptions of sound

into our scripts.

We think it helps make it feel more alive, more like you're

actually watching it.

We do a lot of "whooms" and "whooshes" and "vrooms"

and just stuff like that to just-- a lot of times, for us,

it's emphasizing cuts, where we're going from one scene,

maybe a quiet scene, and then we like to punch the audience

and go, oh, a big sound happens here.

Right.

Like, here's, for example, quick something

from season four, where this is episode seven.

We have-- this is the big Demogorgon fight with Hopper.

"The wounded Demo stumbles backwards

in the pit, black blood spewing all over the ground

from its wounded mouth.

And "choom," the door finally snaps shut.

And "bzz," a loud buzzer sounds."

So again, we're just doing this stuff

to fill it in, to give a sense to the reader of what

this thing is going to feel like and sound like.

We love doing it.

It's not necessary.

But that may be a style that you also

want to apply to your script.

And these sounds are also really important for us,

as I mentioned, for transitions.

We'd like to go from quiet.

And then, "vroom," Nancy and Robin high five.

"Vroom," a car's moving past.

And we literally write "vroom," like we're

little children, in the script.

To us, it helps emphasize the sharpness of that cut.

So sound can be something that can be helping you in terms

of writing transitions.

In the pilot, Joyce has just discovered

that Will isn't here.

She's talking to Jonathan about it.

She's concerned.

He says, call the school.

"The door slams shut.

And then "eee," an electronic bell blares."

We're just communicating to the audience

how we're going to transition these two different storylines.

So you're going from a door slam to a bell ring.

To us, it just keeps the energy going, keeps it flowing,

and sort of connects one scene to the next.

Right.

So you know, another thing that you can do

is you can talk about the music in a particular scene.

We don't do this often.

I mean, I've seen writers who will

put what music choice they think is

appropriate for the scene in front of every scene.

That's something you can do, if you want.

We don't do it because unless you're

providing your executive with, like, a Spotify playlist--

I don't know.

It's hard.

Every once in a while, you can be specific about the song

that you imagine in a scene if it's very important for setting

the mood of the scene.

I know in season one, for instance,

we specified that we wanted to use

Joy Division's "Atmosphere."

We definitely wrote that into the script.

Like Matt's saying, sometimes people put more just

to give people a sense of--

Mood.

--mood and feeling.

And that's definitely something that you can do.

And here's another example.

In season four, episode four, we have a huge moment

where Max, or Sadie's, in trouble.

And in order to reach her in this sort of mind, this

[INAUDIBLE] mindscape, they use music.

Music as the method with which they

are able to reach into her mind and call out to her

and reconnect with Max.

And that's how she's able to escape-- ultimately

escape this mind layer.

That was an idea that came, like, halfway

through writing the season.

Someone-- it was not us-- pitched this idea of music.

So what we had to do then is we had to go back to episode one.

And we wanted to plant the idea that Max was really

into Kate Bush because it only works

if it's your favorite song or if it's

a song that has some sort of personal connection to you.

So we layered that in.

And we wrote in this montage of her walking

down the hallway in slow motion.

So we really hit the Kate Bush note.

One other really important thing you're

going to be working on as you're moving from outline to script

is transitions.

And that really is building in a moment that ties

one scene clearly to the next.

So one scene flows clearly to the next scene.

Sound--

Sound is important.

Sound is extremely important.

There's a lot of other techniques

for an effective transition.

Not all scenes-- not all scenes are

going to transition fluidly-- you know, smoothly

to the next scene.

But the more smooth that you can make one scene go to the next,

the better your script's going to read,

the better your script's going to flow,

the more people are just going to keep turning those pages.

Another transition technique will use

all the time is the match cut.

And the match cut is really when you're

cutting from an image in one scene

to an image in another that's not the same

but is very similar.

And they can be very different things.

But they just-- there's something about those images

that lines up.

One of the most famous match cuts in cinema history,

of course, is "2001-- a Space Odyssey."

You have, a caveman throw a bone up into the air.

And then that bone--

Stanley Kubrick, the director, makes a hard cut

from the bone to a spaceship that is roughly

in the same shape as the bone.

That's a match cut, okay?

So we do that all the time or variations of that

all the time.

Here's an example from the pilot script.

"Mike wipes the saliva off in his jeans, climbs on his bike,

and pedals off into the night.

Above him a street light lamp flickers."

Then we go-- then we cut to, "exterior,

Benny's Fish and Fry, night.

A light flickers inside the Fish and Fry."

Again, it's not-- it's very simple.

It's very clean.

But it's linking these storylines together.

You're going, okay, something spooky

is going on to this town.

So even though it feels like Mike's storyline is

a million miles apart from Benny's, we're going,

oh, no, no, no, these worlds haven't collided yet,

but they will.

It's connecting two very disparate scenes together.

Before you start writing your script,

read a script of a series or movie in a similar genre

to the show you are developing.

Try to read something that has been written in the last 20

years to get comfortable with modern formatting

and screenwriting techniques.

MATT DUFFER (VOICEOVER): We're going

to attempt to demo for you in a short period of time

how we blue-sky ideas for a scene, how we outline a scene,

and then how we take that outline and turn it

into a script.

So what we're going to do is we're

going to take that made up, unofficial Dustin

and Steve spinoff.

And we're gonna write what we think would be a cool opening

hook for that scene.

And this is gonna be real-time and messy, because we really

have no idea what we're gonna write.

We'll see how this goes, but I think

it'll show you guys sort of the process of how we actually

write this and also how messy it is

and how much time it's gonna take.

So, I guess, yeah, without further ado, let's get going.

I'm gonna quickly remind myself

of what the story idea is.

[LAUGHTER]

So "After the events of season three,

Dustin intercepts a cryptic message on Cerebro,

a message he believes is in fact a communication

from his estranged father.

A concerned Dustin decides to check in on his dad who

lives in Arizona.

He recruits his good friend Steve--

and Steve's car, of course-- to assist him in his journey.

"However, when Dustin and Steve arrive in Arizona,

they find that Dustin's dad is missing

and has been, in fact, missing for many months.

Turns out that Dustin's dad, very much like his son,

loves a good adventure and has set off to find the legendary

Lost Dutchman's Mine, the rumored home

of a great treasure.

"Steve and Dustin now set off to find Dustin's dad as well

as the treasure.

However, they aren't the only ones looking for this

and they soon find themselves embroiled

in an adventure involving thieves, treasure hunters,

and something else, something lurking

in the dark of the mines, something not quite human."

The first scene of your script should probably

be an opening hook.

Right?

We want to grab those readers, so we

need to do something exciting.

So the scene-- you know, it should not

be Dustin approaching Steve about his dad.

It could be Dustin receiving the cryptic message on his Cerebro.

That's not--

That's not super exciting.

That's not exciting.

If you think about-- think about our pilot script

for "Montauk" or "Stranger Things,"

we didn't actually start with our kids

in D&D. What we started with was something in the lab.

There's was a fire.

There's a dead scientist.

There's alarms blaring.

We asked a lot of questions.

We didn't give a lot of answers.

So I think we should do something similar now

in a short hook like that--

Yeah.

--given time constraints.

So we're gonna try to come up with something

very simple and fast that hopefully gets

you hooked into this story.

Normally we would have blue-skied this for weeks.

So we're at a slight disadvantage,

so don't judge us too much.

Yeah.

But it should be something exciting.

So it should probably--

Yes.

It should probably--

Well, to me, it's got to involve--

The dad.

Well, it's got involved the mine.

Right?

The mine, right.

Because what you want to do, just like in "Stranger Things,"

we're hinting at where the story's to go.

Just like "Breaking Bad," any of this,

we want to give the audience a sense of,

oh, we're gonna go to the mundane, normal life

in a second.

But we don't want normal life right now.

We want something to punch the audience in the face.

We want to hook that reader.

Whatever, it should be set in Dutchman's Mine.

And unfortunately, I believe that this

means it can't be Dustin and Steve even

though I would love to write--

Because they can't obviously be at the mine.

Now we could do a flash-forward, and we have Steve and Dustin

in the middle of something.

I don't love-- we don't love doing that kind of thing.

It's--

It doesn't-- it's not right.

It's not-- it's not right.

So it does-- it definitely needs to involve--

I think it should involve the dad.

It should involve--

Because this is about-- this is about, you know, a missing--

a missing parent.

So we should maybe hint at-- we could do the moment right

before he went missing--

Exactly.

--like almost like the last time he was seen,

a hint at something that--

Because if you do that, and then we cut to Dustin,

and then he gets this message, suddenly, I'm--

I'm interested.

Right?

I'm like--

MATT DUFFER: So Dustin's dad the moment right

before he goes missing.

ROSS DUFFER: You know what would be fun?

Like in that "Raiders of the Lost Ark,"

you know how you're just seeing glimpses of Indy--

you're not really getting a full view of him?

We could do--

Well, I actually think it would be more

like "Last Crusade."

Because again, like Spielberg redoes the same thing

in "The Last Crusade--"

Oh, that's right.

--except ends up being the surprise that it's Indy

as a kid.

Yes.

And so this, it almost would be fun

if we did sort of a thing like that

where you think it's Dustin and, in fact, it's Dustin's dad.

Dustin's dad.

Because Dustin's actually not a kid anymore.

Right?

No.

So his dad is a little bit quirky like his son.

So it'd be fun if we started in a scene

where we thought that it was Dustin--

Yeah.

--exploring some mine or exploring some space.

Yeah.

And then we reveal that it's not Dustin, it's his dad.

Because you could have people even refer to him as Henderson.

He should just be in the mine.

Right?

MATT DUFFER: Dustin's dad is in the mine.

ROSS DUFFER: Yes.

We're just sketching out some ideas here.

So we're kind of--

ROSS DUFFER: Glimpses of him--

we think it's Dustin, because they're very similar.

Shadow, then big reveal.

This isn't Dustin.

This is Dustin's dad.

I guess we need to decide if he's by himself

or he's with somebody else.

The only-- the thing I'd say why we might consider pairing him

with someone is so--

maybe it's scarier if he's by himself.

But he could-- It might be

Scary.

Because think about, if we're only writing--

if we're keeping this short, like a page or something,

he could be on the walkie--

Yeah, but--

--someone.

What about that?

Yeah.

Okay, there.

Because I like someone saying, "Henderson, do you copy?

Henderson."

Oh, that's great.

That's a good start.

That's a great misdirect.

All right.

"Henderson, do you copy?"

He's working with someone--

We don't know.

--who is not--

It's a disembodied voice.

--there.

We don't cut to them.

Right.

We don't cut there.

And this is a character who can--

Who can play a role later.

--come back later.

Does he find the treasures or misdirect where

we think he finds the treasure?

I don't know, but something-- something spooky's got

to happen.

Right?

I think we should hint that he finds it.

Right?

Or something?

I think you have to maybe-- maybe you think--

I don't want to see the full treasure yet.

We're then-- we're then showing our hands too much.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

But I-- I mean it like--

I wonder if he--

maybe he-- he does have to discover something

like a secret door or passageway.

ROSS DUFFER: Yes.

MATT DUFFER: He finds a secret door or passageway,

something like he thinks he's made a major discovery.

It's something exciting, whatever exciting is.

And that becomes spooky.

Well no.

There was an obstacle.

He found something, but there's a new obstacle.

MATT DUFFER: I think really it is sounds.

This is where sounds come into play.

You're hearing something.

Maybe you see the glint of some eyes, some eyes in the dark,

a shadow-- a large shadowy shape unlike anything.

And also I'm imagining--

I'm jumping ahead a little bit.

But I'm imagining the end of this hook

as he's dropped his walkie and you

have the friend, the treasure hunter friend just going,

Henderson, do you copy?

Henderson?

And we're just pushing in we're pushing in on that walkie.

And then we cut out to black.

Something like that?

Good.

Yeah.

Right.

Like, he drops his walkie.

I don't know if we want to even see that he gets away.

We see a blur of action, a scream.

Like, we can just come up with some images.

No, and this thing is fast, that's what I'm saying.

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah.

This thing, whatever it is, is fast.

Drops walkie.

We don't see what happens is what I'm saying.

MATT DUFFER: Yeah, exactly.

We don't see what happens.

MATT DUFFER: You just hear something.

ROSS DUFFER: We hear drops walkie.

But we don't to imply he's--

well, I guess--

No, we couldn't.

I mean, I think it's interesting to imply

that he could have died.

He could've-- he could've have died.

We don't want to show him dead.

I'm just--

I don't-- you don't want to hear, like--

We don't want to see, like, blood splatter that's

the mine wall--

No, that's what I mean.

--something.

But scream echoing through the mine and then silence.

You know?

All we hear is the walkie.

And then he's got a ton of batteries in his vest.

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah.

Like, this is Dustin fully realized--

Yes.

--is kind of what I think.

What's cute about that is it gives you

a little bit of insight into how Dustin became Dustin,

that he's kind of-- even though his dad is not in his life

anymore, that he's sort of imitating his dad a little bit.

I think that's sweet.

Not just that he inherited-- so there's something sweet

about that.

Like, he really looks up to his dad.

Even though obviously they're estranged and there's some

issue, there's still something there-- yeah,

that's obviously connecting them.

Does he have a weapon or does he have a gun?

You're saying he has a gun?

Yeah.

All right.

[LAUGHS]

I think it's a little bit exciting.

No, like a-- like a rifle, like a like a hunting rifle.

But that's just very unlike Dustin though.

That's why I like it.

Okay.

Because, you know, it differentiates it.

Something about this-- what kind of creature is this?

I don't know.

Something lizard-y.

Lizard-y?

Lizard-y.

Oh, my-- that's not what I was thinking.

Like, you know, scales.

I was thinking more like a Bigfoot type thing, but--

Well, we don't have to figure that out though.

Maybe that's too cliche though.

This is the beauty.

We don't have to figure it out right now.

And then we cut to black.

And that really is our-- that's our opening hook right there.

I think that's pretty good.

I'm gonna show you, what would this look

like in a the scaffolding outline?

Dustin's dad for the treasure--

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah.

MATT DUFFER: --encounters a shadowy monster.

He's attacked.

We don't reveal what happens.

That would be the scaffolding outline.

This is starting to flesh it out.

And now we'll just take it one--

one more step.

Right, Matt?

Yeah.

So let's talk about like, what is, like, the--

What is the opening-- opening shot?

I think it's kind of cool if we have, you know, over black?

Yeah.

We think it's a black screen.

It's not black.

It's not black.

We're in the mine.

MATT DUFFER: It's-- we're actually already in the mine.

Yeah.

Mine, pitch black.

Voice over the Black.

"Henderson, do you copy?

Do you copy?"

And then--

ROSS DUFFER: A foot smashes, maybe.

MATT DUFFER: Like, the flashlight illuminates.

Mhm.

MATT DUFFER: Like, it cuts through.

A shadowy figure.

MATT DUFFER: Through the darkness, revealing the walls.

We'll go into details there-- dripping, slick.

We're in some sort of cave or a mine.

Moving towards us, the voice again, Dustin--

"Henderson, do you copy?"

Maybe it's cutting out a little bit?

No, no.

He can grab it.

And then close on hand grabs the walkie, holds it up.

Holds it up, revealing--

We should get some glimpses here.

MATT DUFFER: Right.

Get glimpses-- curly hair, a vest filled with--

So I'm gonna say, to our great surprise--

so it reveals to our great surprise that this isn't Dustin

at all.

This is-- oh, wait.

We never came up with a name.

Just say Dustin's dad.

MATT DUFFER: This is Dustin's dad.

And he's, like-- what is he?

He's in his 40s.

MATT DUFFER: We should allow a little bit of descriptions.

He's exactly what you would imagine--

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah.

MATT DUFFER: --Dustin would look--

look like when he grows up.

He's a spitting image of his son when he grows up.

He wears--

I got--

Oh.

--I'm getting of his stuff in.

Okay.

I want to get glimpses of him like Indiana Jones.

Right.

[LAUGHS] "Hold your horses, Petey!"

Whatever this guy's name--

I don't know what this dude's name is,

but just making this up as we go along.

He moves down.

He continues to move down the cave when suddenly he

hears something.

Now we can get our sound in, something--

a low whistle--

MATT DUFFER: Right.

ROSS DUFFER: --whistling sound.

It sounds like-- he steps closer to the wall,

to the dead end wall following that sound.

There's a small hole or something.

You need them to reach into something like in that "Temple

of Doom" way.

You know, like a little--

there's a small gap in the mine wall.

This is where the wind is coming from.

He takes a deep breath, then reaches his hand

inside the small gap, grabs hold of something, turns it, click.

Suddenly, we get a more sounds.

Whoom.

And now I'm going to cap this.

This shit's important.

[LAUGHS] The entire wall begins to open up.

Now here's the key.

I'm assuming this is where the treasure is.

We don't want to reveal the treasure yet.

Yeah, but he could-- he could communicate an entire--

ROSS DUFFER: We want to save that for Dustin.

Yeah.

No, his eyes go wide.

Dustin's dad, yeah.

Let his eyes go wide.

He's got-- ah--

Go wide.

We get a nice push in.

And then-- he would get-- he pulls up the walkie.

We need another name--

Petey.

[LAUGHTER]

Petey.

Petey.

Um--

Ah.

Mack?

MATT DUFFER: Mack?

Yeah.

ROSS DUFFER: As you can see, we're

going into a little more detail and trying

to get this scene running.

So we're going into probably more dialogue than we--

than what you normally would in your final outline.

But this is pretty close to what your final outline should

look like.

You're not gonna to need this much dialogue probably.

But Because we're going straight into script,

we're trying to get a little more in as quickly as we can.

Right.

So this is a little trick.

So if you have a character who's talking,

but the dialogue is not very important,

one thing you can do--

"as Mack continues to try to get Henderson's attention."

And then I'm gonna say, "see appendix."

ROSS DUFFER: [LAUGHS]

What that means is, the dialogue--

We'll write it later.

I'm gonna write it later.

We put it in the back.

And then also, like, if I put it all down here,

it would just ruin the flow.

It's irrelevant.

It's not important.

It's background noise.

And as you can see here, I'm sort of working down lower.

This is specifically a writing partner.

I'm doing stuff later.

Matt's doing stuff earlier.

Right.

Occasionally, we'll screw each other up or be like, hey,

I'm doing the flashlight beat.

And we work it out.

But I think, you know, for us, this speeds up the process

if we're-- and also we get less annoyed at each other

if we're both sort of working on different areas.

So I'm working on monster reveal while Matt's doing--

I don't know what he's doing, presumably something helpful.

Yes.

I don't know.

I think we should call him Henderson.

Yeah.

I think that's cleaner, yeah.

It's just easier.

This is Mr. Henderson--

ROSS DUFFER: Mhm.

MATT DUFFER: --I'll say.

Again, your final outline doesn't

have to be quite this detailed.

We're putting in a lot of dialogue,

and we're doing that to save a little time.

So we're sort of merging final outline with script.

You at this stage may actually just

go ahead and move into Final Draft, or WriterDuet, or Movie

Magic, or whatever you want to use.

Matt and I, because we're collaborating,

we're gonna stick around in Google Docs for one more

second as we-- as you watch us just sort of clean this up.

So we've got to add, like, our scene headings.

We got to add our character names and capitals.

We've got to do a little bit of cleanup

to get it to read less like an outline in now

more like a script.

Okay.

Enter mine.

MATT DUFFER: Why don't we just say night?

I mean, because--

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah, sure.

MATT DUFFER: Because it doesn't really matter what time of day

it is.

But--

ROSS DUFFER: And just say, it's pitch black.

We hear a voiceover the blackness, over the darkness.

"Henderson, do you copy?

How about we just say voice?

Sure.

Whoosh, a fast light--

Off-screen.

--suddenly cuts through the darkness revealing--

I'm gonna get rid of our dashes now, or some of them.

I can say here that we're in a mine.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ROSS DUFFER: I can do that.

Just say unknown.

That's something else you can do,

which is, don't describe your scene.

If you don't want your reader to know where you are yet.

Sometimes we'll underline stuff to emphasize.

Boom, hits a dead end--

underline.

Again, it's okay to keep stuff from the audience,

even if your characters are seen it be care.

You know?

And you can specify that with camera, or just you

can be as obvious as just saying,

we're not gonna reveal this to the audience yet.

It's okay to say stuff like that to talk to your reader.

Now for this action, I'm probably

going to actually leave a lot of these dashes, which

is something we do.

Again, this is our style.

It doesn't have to be your style.

But just when it's something quick, fast,

and we're just getting glimpses, like really fast cuts,

we usually do dashes.

So we see something-- sharp teeth, blood, fangs, scales.

That's okay.

I think it's okay to actually leave it almost, like,

in this outline form.

Because to me, it's communicating

that we're just audiences just seeing

these quick little glimpses.

This is gonna be controversial.

I'm gonna say we push in on the fallen walkie.

There are some screenwriter or screenwriter

books that say don't write camera moves into your script.

We wholeheartedly disagree.

I don't think you need to, like, put them in a lot.

But if it's helping tell the story, which in this case,

it is for me--

I'm explaining that the end of this beat

is just going to be slowly moving in and creeping in

on this walkie, it's important.

I think-- I think it just helps the audience,

helps the reader see it.

You know what I mean?

And that's essential.

I mean, it's not really stepping on--

even if you're not going to be directing it,

it's not really stepping on what the director is gonna be doing.

They can do something different if they want,

but it's gonna help the reader visualize this.

Again, this is our process.

You may already be in Final Draft at this stage.

But I'm gonna to do this.

I'm gonna copy.

I'm gonna paste.

Boom.

Most of what we wrote, it's translated it

with some mistakes.

It's thinking decrepit mine is a character,

which decrepit mine is not a character with dialogue.

It's a scene heading.

And we're not gonna teach you how to use these programs.

They're pretty straightforward once you learn them, so just

take a couple of hours and--

MATT DUFFER: Right.

ROSS DUFFER: You're gonna to learn it.

And what I'm gonna do now is I'm going to clean this up

so it all at least works fully as a screenplay.

If there's a really exciting scene like this,

just capitalize the whole thing.

It just emphasizes-- it implies that there's

gonna be cacophonous music.

And it's a huge moment.

Why not?

We're trying to use these words, and the language,

and the sounds just to go this is something that's

both a visual and also it has--

there's sound going on and whatever.

Because you've got to remember, this is a script.

This is not a novel.

And so you're trying to communicate to the audience of,

hey, when this thing is actually made in produce

and comes alive, this is what it's gonna feel like.

You're just trying to get that across as best you can.

This is gonna be a huge moment where

crazy stuff is going to happen.

Sharp teeth, claws--

Scales.

Weird lizard scales.

Shimmering lizard scales.

I don't why there's a lizard.

Well, because it makes me think dragon-y.

Like, you know what I mean?

Guarding the treasure.

I thought you didn't want it to be a dragon.

I know, but it could be dragon-y.

[LAUGHS] That makes no sense.

Dragon-y.

Sharp teeth.

Okay.

He also didn't like the title of "Stranger Things."

So he doesn't-- just, you have to ignore him sometimes.

So shimmering scales, claws, bloody fangs.

Normally what we would do at this stage-

Yeah.

--is, yes.

I will read it through.

I would make any final tweaks.

Then what I like to do is we would print it out.

There's something about reading it,

we think, on a printed page where

you can't make any edits or tweaks that is very different.

We would read it through.

Then we-- we just keep doing passages of the scene,

making it better and better.

So let's see how bad it is or if it's okay.

Scene heading-- enter unknown night.

Pitch black.

We hear strange groaning sounds, creaks, the drip,

drip of water.

And then a voice echoes over the darkness.

Voice, filtered-- now I've added filtered in there

because it's coming through a walkie-talkie.

"Henderson, do you copy?

Do you copy?"

ROSS DUFFER: Uh.

Whoosh-- a flashlight suddenly cuts through.

I like--

See, we always do reflect--

I think-- try to limit how often you use suddenly.

Whoosh-- a flashlight slices through the darkness,

revealing that we're--

a flashlight now slices through the darkness--

through the dark--

revealing that we're in a decrepit mine.

The flashlight continues, sweeps across the mine walls.

Wooden beams crisscross along--

ROSS DUFFER: Muddy, slimy walls.

MATT DUFFER: Muddy, slimy, walls.

That's correct.

A silhouetted figure clutches to the flashlight, slowly moving.

There's some mistakes-- slowly moving towards us.

We get a glimpse of this figure.

They're short with curly hair, a baseball cap,

old sneakers a vest stuffed with various useful items.

Again, maybe if we went back, we could be specific about a few

of those items.

But for now, this works.

I--

I might-- I want to add batteries.

Okay, then Matt's gonna go the extra mile here.

A heavy backpack over his shoulder.

There's a hunting rifle sticking out of the top.

It sure looks like the Dustin we've come to know and love.

MATT DUFFER: I think because that,

we're speaking really to the audience.

You know?

I want to italicize that.

We like to do italics to just give

that extra emphasis on certain words, certain ideas.

Henderson, who loves--

Do you copy?

MATT DUFFER: We haven't revealed it's Mack yet,

so we should keep it voice.

ROSS DUFFER: More agitated--

"Henderson, do you copy?"

Why do you have that dash there?

I don't know.

Close on the silhouetted hand.

Reaches down and grabs a walkie and raises it up.

I'm gonna say, get rid of it.

Again, sometimes you're gonna overwrite this.

So you should--

I don't think we need close on, yeah.

Grabs a walkie and raises it up.

It is here that we reveal--

Reveal that our--

--that our silhouetted figure's--

ROSS DUFFER: Oh, oh.

Reveal our cigaretted figure's face for the first time.

To our great surprise, it isn't Dustin.

This is Mr. Henderson, a.k.a.

Dustin's dad, '40s.

He's a spitting image of his son.

Imagine what Dustin would look like when he grows up,

and you'll get the picture.

And again, you can talk to the audience like that sometimes.

You could do it a lot, like Shane Black.

Or we do it occasionally.

And then you're Henderson.

Right?

MATT DUFFER: "I copy, yeah.

But I'm a bit busy here."

"Busy with what?

We got to get going."

MATT DUFFER: "I found a new passage,

and I got a good feeling about this one."

ROSS DUFFER: "Not holding my breath."

Now this can get more fun.

That dialogue is whatever.

We don't even know who Mack is.

Again, you will know who your characters are.

You've blue-skied it.

I don't know who Mack is.

We're just sort of going with the flow here.

Um.

So Mack is not very defined.

He would be more defined if we were doing this for real.

MATT DUFFER: Henderson continues to move deeper into the mine,

swings left down a corridor, and hits a dead end.

ROSS DUFFER: I'm gonna underline that.

MATT DUFFER: Underscore, underline that.

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah, just to emphasize

that's an end of a beat sort of.

MATT DUFFER: And we got a "Shit, shit, shit, shit, shit."

Dustin says shit a lot, so I like that his dad does too.

This is--

ROSS DUFFER: And then Mac is--

MATT DUFFER: --implying that he gets it from his dad.

"Shit, shit, shit, shit, shit."

ROSS DUFFER: "Shit, what"

MATT DUFFER: "Dead end."

ROSS DUFFER: "I'm shocked.

Let's please go?"

That's not very good line.

Is it?

I don't think we need a line for Mack here.

MATT DUFFER: Yeah, yeah.

I don't think so either.

Dead end.

ROSS DUFFER: When in doubt, delete.

MATT DUFFER: Henderson turns to leave when he hear something,

a low whistling sound.

I'm gonna say, it sounds like wind.

It's a lot of sound.

I just say wind.

So again, you're gonna be overwriting it.

He steps up to the dead end.

There's a small gap in the wall.

This is where the wind is coming from.

He takes a deep breath, then reaches his hand

inside the small gap and grabs hold of something.

Turns it.

Click.

This is a little too derivative of "Indiana Jones,"

if I have to say.

Maybe we can come up with something more specific

when we have more time.

So it turns it.

Click.

Then whoom, the wall begins to open up.

Henderson's eyes go wide.

Whatever he sees shocks him.

He steps forward into a mysterious chamber.

I'm going to say continuous here,

because we're not cutting.

So continuous.

His flashlight reflects a shimmering gold light back

onto his awed face.

We don't see what's causing the shimmer--

misspelled shimmer-- but whatever it is,

it makes Henderson tremble with excitement.

In fact, he's so excited he can hardly speak.

"Mack, I-- I think I found it."

ROSS DUFFER: "Found what?

MATT DUFFER: "The jackpot."

ROSS DUFFER: "Holy shit.

You pulling my leg?

You better not be pulling my leg."

Before Henderson can respond, shoom.

I think shoom is maybe better.

Shoom, his flashlight cuts out.

It's very dark now.

Again, it's okay to be simple and just obvious sometimes.

More shits.

But lucky for Henderson, he has his batteries

on his vest just like his son.

He starts to quickly replace the batteries in his flashlight

when we hear a strange guttural sound, something not human,

animalistic, but unlike any animal we know.

And it's coming from somewhere in this room.

Henderson spins around, but the room is dark.

He can't see where the sound came from.

Again, we're really breaking this up.

We're doing a lot of spaces just to get this--

if it's all clumped as one dialogue,

your reader may just sort of glaze over it

and flip to the next page.

MATT DUFFER: Very quietly, very slowly,

he removes the hunting rifle from off his shoulder.

He aims it in the direction of the sound.

Then he reaches out with his thumb and cocks the hammer.

Click.

So we've done the David Koepp thing

where we've spread it out.

Because you really want to emphasize that--

[CLICK]

--you can start to see how quiet it's becoming.

Yeah.

We're just zeroing in on the sound.

MATT DUFFER: Another roar, this time

from another part of the room.

We're calling it room and chamber,

so we'll go through and decide what we want to call it.

Henderson spins again.

Another roar.

This came from his left, then his right.

And then whoosh.

And again, breaking that up, like Koepp did in "Panic Room."

it's just like-- it keeps people turning that page.

Just keep reading it.

It's a fast read.

And then here's where we went to an all-caps saying, whoom,

like we're shouting at you.

Whoom, something shadowy in large lunges at Henderson.

Bang, Henderson's rifle goes off.

In the light of the muzzle flashes,

we see a blur of action.

Henderson thrown to the ground.

His walkie scattering to the rocky ground.

We see glimpses of our monster.

Sharp teeth, shimmering scales, claws, bloody fangs

reaching for Henderson's neck.

I'm gonna be more specific there--

neck.

He lets out a long, pained scream and then silence.

We push in on the fallen walkie as a panicked Mack continues

to call out for his friend.

ROSS DUFFER: "Henderson, do you copy?

Do you copy?

MATT DUFFER: No answer.

Only ominous silence.

And then right here--

I'm going to be a little dramatic here.

[LAUGHS]

MATT DUFFER: Right here, we cut to black and then, you know.

And that's just sort of a--

MATT DUFFER: Titles!

ROSS DUFFER: Titles.

And that's sort of a three-page opening hook.

And again, we would keep honing it.

We don't really know who these characters are yet, so--

I think the biggest thing that needs improvement when reading

it through is just a little bit more specific about this--

you know, what unlocks this mysterious chamber.

Yeah.

I think we can be more interested in there

and I think we can improve the dialogue

so you a little bit more understand

who these characters.

We are assuming we're going to meet this Mack character when

Dustin and Steve go to Arizona.

He needs to be very interesting.

So he needs to be really interesting and specific,

and he's not right now.

He's just kind of-- he's just kind of a wall for Dustin's dad

to bounce off of.

So those are the things that we would probably work on.

So I think, you know-- we did that very quickly.

But hopefully what you can see is,

it started out very broad, very messy,

a lot of spitballing of ideas.

And slowly, it formed into something much more coherent.

And then we just kept adding details,

cleaning it up, cleaning it up.

And what you're seeing here at the end of this process,

we've got a hook that isn't bad, but it's

gonna continue to improve.

So we're gonna talk more about these characters.

How can we improve that?

How can we come up with something more original

than just, you know, him reaching into a hole

and turning something, which we've seen before.

So we're gonna continue to go and just

try to make this even better and more original.

But what we've got now is a pretty good first pass

at this scene.

Okay, so that was stressful.

So we did that.

[LAUGHS]

And [LAUGHS] we'd like you to do the same thing.

You don't have to do it within the sort of time that we had.

What you want to do is you want to take the opening

scene, your opening hook.

And we want you to take it from the final outline--

The final outline.

--to script stage, very much just like what we did.

Read it through.

Do another pass, do another pass until you're

really happy with it.

And remember to focus on those elements of description,

action, dialogue.

And you're just gonna keep honing it and keep working it

until you feel really good about it.

And again, the opening hook, you know, for the "Stranger Things"

pilot script, it was only about a page.

For the unofficial Dustin and Steve spinoff we just wrote,

that was about three pages.

Anywhere from really one to five pages

should do the trick unless you want to get very elaborate,

and do a "Raiders of the Lost Ark,"

and have a nice 10-plus page opening hook.

That's fine too.

That's fine too.

Or keep it simple like we did for the pilot of "Stranger

Things."

It depends.

Whatever your story dictates, go with your gut there but good

luck.

MATT DUFFER: So once you get to the stage in the process

where you have your script, which is huge--

you've overcome this massive hurdle.

You've done all this work.

But the question is, now, who's gonna read it?

How do you get anyone to read it?

This is probably the question we get asked the most, which is,

what now?

What do I do now?

And, you know, as we've kind of talked about,

previously, we had no connections, no Hollywood

connections.

Our dad was not in the business, none of that.

So if you have that, great.

Good for you.

You're in the door already.

You have someone who you can give the script to.

But most of us-- you know, most of you

probably don't have Hollywood connections

and it is difficult. So it's like, what do you do?

You have the script, this great script that works.

Now, what?

All right.

So you have-- like Matt says, you have this amazing script.

So the trick is now to get it read.

So I think a lot of times people go,

oh, well, I'm gonna just send this to Netflix

or I'm gonna send to Amazon or I'm going to send it to HBO.

And, unfortunately, it's not that simple.

If-- if you do end up somehow getting your script to Netflix

or Amazon or HBO or Apple--

Meaning, like, just-- if you just send it to them

in the mail.

If you send it in the mail, you--

you throw it over the fence, whatever you do or you find

someone's email, however you do it, don't do that,

because they're just gonna throw it out.

So it's really just a waste of your time.

So what we're gonna talk about now is,

how do you get it to Netflix or HBO or Amazon?

And the answer to that is you're gonna

need an agent or a manager.

Why do you need an agent or manager?

Basically they're your conduit into the whole, like, Hollywood

system.

Right?

So they are able to get your script out to producers.

And producers will be able to get

your script to studios and networks,

such as, like, Netflix, right?

For example.

Without an agent or a manager, no one's

gonna take you seriously.

Unless you're pretty established,

you can't, you know, represent yourself.

OK?

You're gonna need to find one of these agents or managers.

Sometimes people ask, you know, I'm still a little confused

about it, the difference between an agent or a manager.

Managers tend to represent fewer people.

So it's a little bit more personal.

You can kind of call them up, you know, on a Saturday

at 3:00 PM.

I mean, I can do that with my agent now,

which is a little weird.

And agents tend to represent a lot more people.

But they work at a really large company, such as CAA, where,

you know-- and they have--

the good-- the advantage of working with an agent or big--

at a bigger agency is that they have

a lot of other connections within that agency, right?

Like big name actors, big name directors

who they could help-- they could attach your script to.

And that could help sell it.

So it doesn't really matter at this-- at this point.

You just need someone to represent you.

Someone-- the truth is it's actually a relatively small

town.

Everyone knows everybody, generally.

So the key is just gonna be to find someone

that responds to your script and that

can get it in the hands of the right people.

And again, all of these people know the right people.

So you just gotta get it in their hands

and they gotta like your script, which seems simple, right?

So OK.

I can't send my script to Amazon or Netflix or Apple.

So I'm just gonna send it to some management companies

or agencies.

Unfortunately, it's also not that simple.

They're also gonna most likely throw your script in the trash

and not even look at it.

And this sort of becomes a bit of a chicken and the egg

situation.

There's a bit of a conundrum here of like--

what you're gonna ask, which is a completely valid question,

which is, well, if I need an agent to sell my script,

but my agent-- an agent won't read my script,

how do I get an agent?

And that is the most complicated part of this entire process.

And I wish there was a better system in order for this

to work.

But we're gonna at least tell you how we managed to do it.

And-- and, ultimately, you know,

I was kinda saying earlier, it's very-- you know, it's hard--

it's especially hard if you don't have connections,

because the truth is you need-- you--

you need connections, right?

So if you have connections, if you're coming out here

and people already have connections,

they have an advantage over you in terms of-- now, listen,

if their script stinks, their script stinks.

It's not gonna help them.

But so, hopefully, your advantage

is you have a really good script.

That's the best thing that you can

have going for you is a really good script, so that when you

do find-- make that connection, you hand it to them,

the script is gonna work for them.

What do you do if you don't have connections?

So we didn't have connections.

We were at-- we-- we were going to film school

out here at Chapman University in Orange County.

We were close-ish to LA.

We knew we needed to make connections.

We needed to meet people who were making stuff

within the industry.

And so we just, every summer, and actually

even throughout the year, we interned.

There's two of us.

Again, this is the advantage of having two people.

But you can do it yourself, obviously.

Which is-- we-- we divided and conquered.

We're like, oh, we should-- it's two of us.

We should take advantage of the fact that we're twins and just,

like, spread out all over town.

We did every internship we could-- could find

and we met as many people as we could.

We did try to put in-- you know, do a lot of good work there.

I mean, it's not the most fun thing in the world,

these internships.

In our case, it was work to help get coll-- college credit.

And so I guess what you might question--

you might ask then is, OK, so I got one of these--

I-- I found an internship.

And so now, what do I do?

I just hand this brilliant script that I've written--

I hand it to someone in the company

and they're gonna read it an they're gonna get me an agent.

It's also not that simple.

What you really need to do, like Matt's saying is,

you just gotta--

you gotta put in the work.

We-- we made copies of scripts.

We fetched coffees.

I delivered presents to people.

I did Christmas stuff.

I-- it's-- and some of the time, I was given a fun task.

Like I'd be like, here, read this script

and let me know what you think.

And you do.

And you slowly start to earn people's trust.

I was working at a company called Appian Way.

And my boss there--

one of my bosses there was Franklin Leonard.

You might know now, if-- if you're into screenwriting,

he runs something called the Blacklist.

But back then, it was-- and it's still, part of it

is, today is it just a list of people's favorite scripts

they read this year within Hollywood.

So the point is Franklin was a great boss.

And you know, I did work with him.

And you start to earn trust.

And I remember, I told him about this show called "The Wire."

And I got him hooked on it.

And he became obsessed.

And just little things like that just--

again, just like with your scripts, baby steps.

You start to earn people's--

You didn't-- you didn't hand Franklin the script the day you

walked in there.

No.

Like, he'll never look at you again, probably.

I think this was probably nine--

at least after 9, 10 months--

Right.

--of working there.

And I go, hey, here's a script.

If you happen to have time, you know,

I'd love your thoughts on it.

Franklin read the script.

And again, we wrote this script in college.

It's a pretty messy script.

It has a lot of issues.

It has a pretty strong first 5 to 10 pages.

Whatever it was that convinced Franklin,

he thought that there was a promise in this.

And he sent it to a couple of agents.

They also thought there was promise in it.

We took those meetings.

And we had in--

through that, we were able to get agents.

So the point is, you have to find your Franklin.

It may not be through internships.

It may be-- there may be through some other way.

But the key is you need someone to hand your script to an agent

and say, hey, this is good.

If you just cold email, cold call, it's unlikely.

There are other avenues.

Franklin's Blacklist is one.

There's--

There's competitions.

There's competition.

Some of those are valid.

Some of those are just trying to steal your money.

So you have to be careful.

But generally, there are ways to get your script out.

The most helpful thing and the fastest way, in our opinion,

is to come out here and meet people.

That may not be possible for you, in which case

it is gonna have to be an online thing and it's gonna help.

If your script is really good, hopefully, it'll find its way.

But if there's any way that you can meet people out here,

that is probably the fastest and cleanest way.

It was within-- it's still gonna take time.

It was a couple of years of interning and working

before we were able to even get our script

in the hand of someone who knew an agent, much less meet

an agent.

So it was just-- it is a process and it is gonna take some time.

So if you can get out here, that would be great.

And it can be-- it can be discouraging and just--

just as you're writing a script, it can be frustrating.

So, like, just to show the other side of it.

And I think I was just as good of an intern,

if not a better intern than my brother.

Right?

OK?

So-- and I put in about a year and a half

at this company that shall not be named.

Right?

And I-- and, you know, I think I did solid-- good, solid work.

And I hand the same exact script over to them saying, will

you read it?

Of course.

Nothing happened.

OK?

Like, so-- it didn't go anywhere.

They didn't send it to an agent or a manager.

Right?

They didn't help.

So this is why don't bank on one single person or one

single company.

Spread out.

If it's just you, just-- then-- then, you know,

you need to spread out and go to a bunch

of different internships.

Don't bank on any one person or any one company.

And-- and just try to meet as many people as you can.

Or become an assistant.

That's another way.

There are a lot of avenues.

But the most important one is trying

to meet people that have connections

within the industry.

So you make connections.

Someone knows an agent or a manager.

They get your script to them.

They like it.

They go, hey, we want to represent you.

So then, what happens?

And, you know, at that point, we're like,

you know, we made it.

We did it.

We did it, mom and dad.

Like we got an agent in Hollywood.

I mean, we thought we were pretty cool.

I mean, being from North Carolina,

all we knew about agents or managers at the time

was from the HBO show "Entourage."

That's literally all we knew.

But it's, unfortunately, not that simple.

So we had this script-- this script called "Origin,"

the-- the--

I'm infected.

--infected, you know, gonna die in two hours script,

which was kind of, in honesty, a little bit of a mess, right?

Ross said good 5, 10-- first 5, 10 pages, which is cool.

The rest of it kinda falls apart.

We weren't outlining.

OK?

So that's why it's a mess, by the way.

So why-- this is why you need to outline.

So what happens next?

The agents then send it out to producers

who they think would be a good fit for the project.

And then, they'll see which producers are interested.

Then, we met with those producers who were interested.

And then, you just hear them out and you

see which ones seem to get you and get the project

and seem genuinely passionate about them.

Pick a producer.

That's a key step is picking your producer.

And then, that producer, along with your agent,

will then send it out-- when they feel the time is right,

they'll send it out to studios.

And that was a film.

So that went out to all the film studios.

In this case, you know--

Warner Brothers, Paramount--

Yeah.

That's what they--

Universal.

So it went out to all these companies.

And then, they read it.

And we're like, here we go.

And then, we just-- then, we're just waiting for the big

paycheck and we're waiting for someone to buy it.

And then, that did not happen.

Which happens all the time, by the way.

So scripts will go out wide-- they call it going out wide.

You go out with the script.

And for whatever reason, no one's gonna option it

and no one's gonna buy it.

I mean, I think it did actually come sort of close.

It was like almost there, not quite.

And I really do think if we had outlined it, that would've sold

and-- and our, you know, career trajectory

would've been really different.

But it didn't.

But it didn't.

But it didn't end up selling.

But that's OK, because what the key

was we started knowing nobody.

We came out here.

We-- in turn, we met some people, like Franklin.

But, again, our-- our knowledge of people in Hollywood

was pretty small.

We then got our agent.

So we met some agents.

And then, once it went out, suddenly,

even though the script didn't sell,

we were taking all these meetings.

We felt like we were in "Entourage."

We're meeting these-- some big-time producers.

Were meeting over with studios.

And it felt like, OK.

Suddenly, we're-- the door has opened and we're into this

world.

We haven't made a penny yet, but at least we're

starting to make connections.

And, again, once you know people and you know the right people,

the key is just gonna be to write a script that works.

And unfortunately, "Origin," didn't fully work,

which is why it didn't sell.

So I'm-- you know, it is what it is.

But it got us in the door.

And that's the key.

And I think with your first script--

listen, I hope it sells.

I hope it goes out and sells in a bidding war.

But if not, if you can get it to open that door for you

and get into the world, that is a huge first step.

And it was a huge step for us, in terms

of getting to where we are now.

Once you have that agent, they're gonna send--

the first thing they're gonna do is they're gonna send it out

to producers.

And they're gonna pick the producers they think

are a good fit for your project, who they think might

be interested in your project.

Some of the producers are just gonna pass on your project.

You're gonna get rejected lots of times.

This is not something you should be upset about.

These producers may just be busy.

They may not have even read it, they're just not interested,

whatever.

What you want to be interested in is--

are the producers who liked your project, who want to meet you,

who want to produce unit movie or your--

or your television show, right?

So I think then what you do is you go and you meet--

or nowadays, maybe you Zoom, with all the producers

who liked your project.

And then, you hear them out.

And they're gonna kind of actually--

this is kind of a cool stage, in where they're sort

of pitching themselves to you.

It's not-- it's, like, kind of a little bit of a low stress

thing for you.

You already know that they're interested in your project.

And they're gonna talk about their visions

for, not just your project, but for where it could end up.

And they're gonna try to get you all excited.

So how do you pick a good producer?

I think this is one of those things where you really just

have to trust your gut and you have to go with--

I wouldn't necessarily go with what seems

on paper like the right idea.

I think, you know, Ross and I had

made that mistake in the past.

I think the most important thing to do

is just who seems to understand your material, who

seems to understand you, who seems actually,

genuinely the most passionate about it.

Like, you want someone who's, like, really, really excited

about it and who gets it.

I mean, we met with a lot-- you know, this is--

talking about "Stranger Things" now.

But when we first sent that script out

and we had a meeting with a handful of producers,

there were some who clearly-- you know, right away, we're

like, well, this is not a good fit.

Because they were going, listen, I really like this script.

It's amazing.

You know, I love it so much.

Can we remove the kids?

Like, let's just make it-- because

and, again, the producer's goal is to sell the material.

They see kids and it's not a kids show, immediately,

that's a red flag for them.

They haven't seen a script like that sell, I don't know,

for a really long time.

So they're like, this is gonna be very difficult to sell.

We knew immediately, anyone's telling

us to remove the kids from the show is wrong for the project.

We actually even had the opposite.

We had people go, let's just make it a kid show,

remove the adult characters.

We're like, well, that's also wrong.

Right?

That's-- that's not right.

That means you don't get-- they don't get what we're

trying to do for the show.

But eventually, you'll meet the producer who,

they say all the right things, they know the same references,

they love the same movies you do,

they know exactly what you want to do.

Right?

Oh, there's another example.

Right?

We had a producer we were with.

And they said, when you're pitching this,

I love the script-- they didn't want us to change

the kids or any of that.

But they said, when you're going out

and you're pitching this to these television studios,

they don't understand movies or no movies.

So you can't reference movies when you're pitching your show.

And I was like, I don't--

I literally-- I was like, I don't

know how to pitch "Stranger Things"

and not be able to reference "ET."

And I was like, do-- do television studio executives--

they haven't seen "ET?"

Like it just didn't make any sense to me.

So that was--

A red flag.

--a red flag.

And we ended up walking away from that producer.

So at the end of the day, you know, trust your gut.

Go with who gets you and who gets your material.

That's how you know-- and who's gonna support your vision

and support you specifically.

And that's how you make your decision.

So you've settled on a producer.

So what's gonna happen now is the producer's gonna go,

well, I think the best course of selling

it is to go to these companies or these studios.

Now, we're starting to get closer

to that original idea, which is like, how do I get to Netflix

or Amazon or whatever?

Well, now, that's where we're headed.

So they might say, I think this is a great fit for Netflix

and Amazon or whoever.

And so-- but the trick is, with those companies,

you're not gonna just send your script

and they're gonna just buy it and that's it.

What you're gonna need to do when you're devel-- doing

the TV shows, you're gonna need to develop a pitch,

so you can give them a sense of not just the pilot,

but you're trying to give them a sense of what the entire season

of that show is like.

So a pitch is an elaboration, essentially, on--

on the pilot.

So what these studio executives are gonna get,

they're gonna have read your script.

So if they like your script and you're

invited to go meet with them, that's a really good sign.

That means they liked your script, most likely.

Not always the case, actually.

But usually-- usually, it means that they liked your script.

And at that point, basically, you want to--

and how long is it pitch usually?

I mean, I guess--

Ours was, like, 15 minutes maybe.

15, 20 minutes.

Right?

You don't wanna be too long.

You don't wanna feel like, you know--

you don't wanna be long-winded, looking

at their clock-- you know, looking at their watch,

whatever.

That's a bad sign, if they're looking at their watches.

So you wanna be brief, to the point,

and all you're doing with the pitch is telling them,

essentially, how awesome your show is

and how cool it's gonna be and what's cool about it.

And you're gonna tell them all the things that weren't--

aren't maybe evident in-- in the pilot.

Yes.

And I think, probably, the best way to explain, you know,

exactly what a pitch is to show you what the pitch was

for-- for "Montauk" or "Stranger Things."

I, mean we wrote out the whole thing and memorized it.

You definitely don't wanna go into a pitch

and read off a sheet of paper, like that.

I mean, that's one way to not sell a show.

I think this is an area where a lot of writers

get really nervous, because we're not--

we're not actors, right?

It's not-- and it's kind of annoying

that, actually, you even have to do this,

you have to go, like, sell yourself.

Because writers tend to, like, hide from other people.

I'm not-- and, you know-- you don't-- you're not--

you're not good at boasting.

But that's why the best thing to do

is do what you do best, which is write.

Write your pitch down.

You're not winging this.

You don't wing it.

Right?

You probably don't have that-- if you're like us,

you don't have that skill set, right?

To just sort of be improvising it on the day,

you're gonna get nervous or whatever.

The best thing to do, write out your pitch,

memorize it, and just-- and just spit it out on the day

and try to make it feel like you're coming up with it

on the spot, but you won't be.

What happens is-- so you'll go into a room.

And, you know, you'll pitch your heart out.

And then, they go "Thank you."

And you leave.

And then, you just wait for a phone call from your agent.

They're not gonna follow up with you,

they're gonna follow up with your agent.

So if it's bad news, you don't have--

you hear-- you're kind of hearing it secondhand.

If it's good news, you're hearing it second hand.

And, yeah, good news, you're hearing-- right.

Whatever.

You're ne-- you're never gonna hear directly from them.

That's what the agent or your manager

is for, to communicate directly with the studio or the network.

So you just wait.

Sometimes you gotta wait-- some day-- sometimes

you'll hear that day.

Sometimes you'll-- you'll hear stories about people being--

you know, they're buying it in the room.

I don't know.

That never happened to me.

I guess that does happen to some people.

Or it'll be the next day, sometimes

it'll be three days, whatever.

But I wouldn't panic.

We had no idea when we were walking out

that they would buy it or not.

We-- they just-- it was just total poker face.

We had no sense of how much they liked it or not.

And we were all-- we were just-- we were terrified.

So you really are just waiting for your agent to call you.

And then, hopefully your agent is nicer than ours,

because he called us and said, bad news.

They didn't like it.

And then, he said, I'm kidding.

They're buying this story.

And that was really mean.

It gave us a heart attack.

Yeah.

[DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING]

MATT DUFFER: The best way to explain

how we pitch is just to show you the "Stranger Things" pitch.

You're gonna be talking about a lot of stuff

and a lot of stuff that was in your blue sky document that

maybe just didn't make it into the pilot.

For instance, in your pilot script of "Stranger Things,"

we talk about how Hopper's lost a daughter.

We don't really talk about how that'

where he's going from there.

That A to B, we don't talk about.

We don't know from the pilot script

that Mike and Eleven are gonna have this innocent relationship

and sort of have a first love.

We don't get into that or that Jonathan and Nancy are

gonna end up teaming up.

So what you're able to do is you're

able to elaborate a little bit more.

Now, don't get all too carried away.

This is 15 to 20 minutes, so you're

gonna have to be very particular.

You're gonna have to pick your best

ideas and your simple ideas.

You could definitely lose people really quick.

If you start going too deep into mythology or whatever,

you're gonna lose people.

But you should touch on mythology.

We touch on what this other dimension is.

We talk about inspirations.

We talk a little bit about music, even, and tone.

You're just sort of hitting these big bullet points of what

the show is both gonna feel like and your

giving a sense of what the story arcs could be.

And then even at the end, you're talking a little bit

about what could be beyond this, if it happens to be successful.

This is not a document that we've really

shared with anyone.

We didn't even share it with Netflix.

MATT DUFFER: You know, we broke it down for ourselves,

starting with an introduction.

We talked about, did you see our look book trailer?

It's probably clear to you that now we're

gonna get into a look book later.

We were movie nerds growing up, so we

started to make it a little personal immediately

and talk about why we're passionate about this material.

We talked about going to movies with our dad,

and how we loved this growing up,

and how we then fell in love with TV with "The Sopranos."

And we talk about a little bit why we think it's unique,

and why there isn't a show like that,

and why we would like to see a show like this.

And then, if you look at this, actually, we

talk about a lot of things we had you kind

of blue sky or thinking about.

I mean, we talk about--

ROSS DUFFER: Inspiration.

MATT DUFFER: --inspiration, so the kind of movies

that inspired us.

ROSS DUFFER: And you can see here, it says, "ordinary

meets the extraordinary."

It's bolded, that's how important we thought it was.

We did not bold this for this class.

This was bolded for the Netflix pitch.

But again, we make it personal again.

Because then, we say right after that, "When we were growing up,

we were just regular kids living in the suburbs of North

Carolina, playing Dungeons and Dragons

with our nerdy friends."

And we're saying this is why this show is meaningful to us.

We're making it personal for them, again.

So I think that is important.

Then we get into setting.

ROSS DUFFER: Setting, for us, was not

the most important aspect of this storyline.

And we summarize it very quickly,

talking about how Montauk is this close-knit seaside town.

And we talk about Amity in Jaws.

We don't spend a lot of time here.

No.

And then we get into mythology.

So, it's funny I'm reading this.

Some of this is not even accurate.

But we basically get into the Montauk project

and why we're into the Montauk project.

And why we love conspiracy.

MATT DUFFER: And why we love conspiracy.

Again, we're making it personal.

ROSS DUFFER: We have these, again, bolded lines.

And again, this isn't for MasterClass.

This was stuff we had bolded, just as a--

I think, even though we memorized it,

we wanted to be like, you've got to hit this moment,

you've got to emphasize this because it's

so important, which is, a doorway or tears

open to another dimension.

We talk about these entities.

We realized multiple entities was more entities

than we needed.

And it became one, which was the Demogorgon.

And we end this with saying, "This supernatural kidnapping

sets our story into motion."

And I think one reason that's bolded

and we thought was so important was

this is going back way, way, way back to early

in the lesson when we said, big idea.

And our big idea coming out of prisoners

was, what if we do a show about a supernatural kidnapping?

So we wanted to make sure that they understood

that at the core of this, we're gonna

have a lot of crazy ideas, other dimensions,

and multiple entities--

Girls with side-eye powers.

Some psychic powers.

Yeah.

Well, listen, if you're getting-- just think about it,

at the end of the day, supernatural kidnapping.

And then we move into talking about the structure.

And these are really the arcs that we were talking about.

The story arcs.

The story arcs that we were talking about.

We were calling them generations slash structure here.

We're talking about the drive, of course,

which is what happened to Will.

How do we get will back?

Again, very easy for them to understand.

And then we talk about, there's gonna be three main storylines.

And we're going to break them into three

different generations, the kids, the teens, the adults.

And then, we also bolded, "We like

to think of each of these generations

as existing in a different '80s universe."

Well, and I think it also gives them a shortcut, right,

too?

Yeah.

Because saying, the adults are in a Spielberg movie.

The teens are an '80s horror film,

like "Halloween" or "Nightmare On Elm Street."

And then the kids are in a Stephen King novel,

like "Stand By Me" or "It."

And I think, again, these aren't--

these are references that we were

assuming that they would be able to understand and relate to.

And then we step through each of those generations for them.

So we're like, okay, now we're gonna talk about the adults.

Yeah, we actually say this, look.

"Now we will walk through the storylines.

First, we have our adults."

It's very simple.

Again, very simple, clean, simple introductions to this.

You don't want them to get lost.

If you start going into too much detail, they're gonna just--

they're gonna zone out, and they're

gonna start thinking about their next meeting or whatever it is.

Just keep it focused and clean.

And then, basically, what we do

is we talk about all the major adult characters.

When we go through each character,

we go through Hopper, and what we're doing

is we're talking a little about who Hopper is.

We're talking about the story arc, which

is something in your blue sky that you've come up with that A

to B. And we're talking about his story arc, A to B.

And then we're doing the same with Joyce.

So we're just hitting those huge, big points.

So hopefully they understand who this character is,

where they go in the story, and where they end up.

But I think that, again, you're staying really broad.

If you look at this outline we've got,

it's a short paragraph for each of these characters.

And then we sort of summarize, at the end,

you know, this is another bolded thing.

We say, "What really unites the adult storylines,

emotionally and thematically, is that both Hopper

and Joyce her parents who feel like they

have failed their children.

Specifically, they feel they have failed them because

of mistakes in their past.

But over the course of the show, they

find a way to forgive themselves,

to accept their mistakes, and to move on with their lives.

So it's starting to talk about what is gonna

unite Joyce and Hopper here.

We're just doing the same structure that we did with

the adults with the teams, which is we say,

"They've got adulthood looming, and it's terrifying,

which is represented by this 'monster' that is stalking

them.

And that's, again, just telling Netflix,

hey, this isn't just kids running away from monsters.

There's a little more depth to it.

So that can be a helpful thing.

And then we go to the kids.

And it was an obvious choice by us to end with the kids last.

We knew that was our stro-- like, really strong, probably

our most interesting storyline.

So we wanted to end on a high note.

That's why we structured it in the way that we did

or I'm imagining that it is.

We talk about Mike, he's still got that birthmark on hi face--

That's right.

--which leads to insecurity.

And then we describe this storyline of him and Eleven.

And we say, "We now have this E.T. fish-out-of

water storyline.

And with that, almost, they get it, right?

They get how it's gonna work with Mike and Eleven.

And we kind of step through some of the cool sequences

that the kids might have--

these fun sequences they're gonna

have with this psychic girl who's suddenly living with them

and how she's gonna learn how to live in the real world.

And we talk about all that.

And we say little ideas like, "she levitates their Dungeons

and Dragon figures."

Now, in the show, she does, I think,

the Millennium Falcon toy.

Which is a better idea.

But again, it's giving them a taste of, hey,

this journey's gonna be fun.

This is one of the things that could happen along

this journey.

Once we went through each generation and all the major

characters, we then went into-- we started talking about how

they're gonna combine.

We labeled this Finale.

We said, there's gonna be a big set piece, where the government

agents come to Mike's house.

Yeah.

This is actually pretty accurate, still, for the show.

Yeah, it is, yeah.

They come to the Mike's house.

That leads to the bike chasing, whatever we say.

So that moment, we knew that was gonna

be an exciting moment in the show

and that whatever happened there was gonna lead all three

of these storylines to collide.

We're not specific about how they collide here.

ROSS DUFFER: No.

We just said there's gonna be a huge event of the house.

And then we just wrote, "This is when our three generational

storylines merge, adults, teens, and kids."

And then we talk about a little bit what we were telling you

not too long ago, which is, "They each have

a key piece of knowledge, the adults

have learned where Will is hiding,

the kids have learned about this portal beneath Camp Hero,

and the teens have learned how to defeat the Entities," which

will become the Demogorgon.

"They now have what they need to free Will."

And then we talk a little bit about the climax.

We talk about--

But again it's like five sentences.

--how they're going to-- yeah, that they're going to rescue

Will and how Eleven is gonna use her powers to help close

the rift and end the horror.

So that was us running through the entire series for them.

Again, it's a really zoomed-out view of it.

ROSS DUFFER: And then, we get into franchise, briefly.

MATT DUFFER: And I think, initially, this franchise thing

didn't exist in the original pitch.

But it was something we kept getting asked about,

so we were like, we better write down

some good answers for this.

And a lot of this we already went over,

in terms of, we started to talk about, listen, we

want this story to be complete.

We want them to rescue Will.

We don't want them to rescue Will and then lose Will again

and season 2 is about rescuing will again,

because we knew that would be boring.

So we knew it would revolve around--

revolve around what happens with Will when he's returned.

"How has his time in this other dimension affected him."

That's what we wrote.

He's going to be psychologically damaged.

He's gonna be haunted by very intense nightmares.

How do you come back from something like that.

And ultimately, that is what season 2 is about.

It's like, how does Will come back

from the events of season 1?

We've got 15, 20 minutes, and so we've got to be,

every word counts here.

And you've got to be very careful with not

falling into too much detail.

[DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING]

So in addition to the pitch and in addition

to that verbal pitch that we did,

we sent a look book prior to our meetings for them.

And, basically, a look book, this is optional.

This is something you definitely do not have to do.

You have to do the pitch, but you

don't have to do the look book.

But what we like about the look book

is it goes back to the idea of tone

that we talked about way earlier, in terms

of giving them a sense of, what is this show gonna feel like?

Or look like.

Yeah.

What is the texture of the show, right?

So you're doing things with images

that you just can't completely do with the written word.

So we found this actually pretty helpful.

And I think the studios and networks all responded really

positively to this look book.

And it was pretty simple.

We did it ourselves on Photoshop.

We're not particularly skilled at Photoshop,

so we kept it pretty simple.

If you don't know Photoshop, or Illustrator, or any

of those things, maybe you have a friend who does

or someone who can help you out.

Again, it doesn't have to be super fancy.

But, basically, we wanted to adopt the look--

if you check out-- we'll show you

some of the pages from this look book.

We were trying to evoke the feeling of a classic Stephen

King paperback.

You'll notice that the font is not

totally dissimilar from the font ultimately used for the show,

"Stranger Things."

But again, this is something very simple that Matt

and I were able to do on Photoshop.

So we included an introduction,

very much like we did in the pitch.

We did.

But the most important thing, aside from that, again,

are the pictures.

So this is something that we were unable to do on the pitch.

But we show images from the films which inspired it,

so some images from "E.T."

We show some images from "Hellraiser" and "Nightmare

on Elm Street."

And, you know, we show Camp Hero, what the base looks like.

So remember, again, when we're talking about the script,

you're very spare in your description.

So it's good to use a look book, we think.

It allows a bit of a shortcut to allow

them to start to visualize, what is

this show that I'm gonna buy?

What is it gonna look like?

And we do get into some of the character stuff.

But a lot of this is, we're trying

to get a little bit more, like Matt's saying, the feel of it

across.

We do talk about the conspiracy.

And some of the stuff we go over in the pitch

and the basic story beats.

But then we go into the tone and style.

We go into how we're gonna deal with the horror,

that a lot of it's gonna be off screen.

And the monster's gonna be obscured,

and you're not going to see things super clearly.

And just, sort of, wanted to approach it

like those old classic films that we grew up loving.

And so, we are able to talk about that,

which is something we didn't have time

to get into with the pitch.

We talk a little bit, even, about the music,

that it's gonna have-- we envision it as having like

a synth score, as opposed to like an orchestral score.

We want it to sound like a John Carpenter film.

So again, a lot of this is kind of--

and that was not something-- we didn't get into the soundtrack

when we were pitching.

And that was all about story, and character, and structure.

And if you are interested in looking more at, it I believe

you can just--

it is online.

Someone put it online.

Someone put it online at some point.

So you can just Google "Stranger Things" look book.

And it will come up for you.

[DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING]

We had the pitch, the verbal pitch.

We had the look book, which we sent them.

We did one other thing, which is sort

of an above and beyond thing, which is not necessary.

Our producer suggested that we--

Is that what it was?

Yeah, that's what it was.

Yeah, our producer suggested we do it, which we would do,

like, a sizzle reel or a fake trailer for the show.

Basically, all this is, is you take a bunch of clips.

This is, again, something that's so simple that Ross and I were

able to do it on Final Cut.

We took a bunch of clips from movies that were ins--

a lot of the movies that inspired the show--

Yeah.

--old movies.

We had "E.T."

We had "Nightmare on Elm Street."

We also had new movies.

We had-- what else did we have in there?

We had "Super 8"

We had like 30-some movies.

Yeah, "Super 8" was in there a lot, right?

"Halloween."

"Halloween."

Just a lot of our references.

And we put it together.

"Altered States" was in there.

And we added this--

what's cool about it and it just further

helps tell them or show them--

The tone.

--the tone, how you envision the show.

What do you imagine it's going to look like?

What do you imagine it's gonna sound like?

And it was cool, even for us.

I don't know how much it helped, in terms

of the selling of the show.

But it was fun to put together and actually helped educate us,

in terms of what this show was gonna look like.

Was it gonna work, our idea of synth music?

So we put, like, John Carpenter synth music over images

from ET, which has kind of a really uplifting John Williams

score and it was, like, really cool.

And we were like, okay, I think, actually, this

is going to work.

It's definitely not something you have to do.

Hard to know how much it moves the needle, in terms

of selling the project.

But I do think, ultimately, something specific to us

is that we had wanted to direct this one.

So--

Right.

--I think it helped sell us that we had a clear vision

for what this should look, and sound, and feel like.

And so, I think it helped in that regard.

So it can be a helpful thing, certainly not necessary.

[DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING]

We had our producers.

We had our verbal pitch that we had memorized.

We had our look book, we had our sizzle reel.

So now was the time to really go out and pitch this

to various companies.

Which both our agents and our producing partners

came up with a list of, hey, I think

these are the companies that potentially would

be interested in this project.

So then you start a sort of grueling-- the grueling

experience of actually going and doing these pitches in person.

So why it's exhausting is you're doing

this 15 or 20-minute pitch, but you're

doing it over and over again.

Yeah.

I believe-- how many did we do?

I think, in that first week, was it fif--

I mean, you say I exaggerate, but I feel like it was 12--

Yeah

--in that first week.

Yeah, I would say it was probably 12 in that first week.

And what can be--

it can be exciting, but it can be discouraging.

I mean, you're gonna hear stories again about, hey,

someone just bought [SNAPS FINGERS] this

in the room.

Again, that didn't happen to us.

And I would say a chunk of the places, at least half of them,

were probably hearing the pitch just out

of to be nice to the agents because they

had a relationship with them.

So like, okay, yeah.

I'll take 40 minutes out of my day to hear this pitch.

But they weren't really interested in the project.

So that can also become--

be a painful process, because you're trying to be excited.

And if you're not getting anything back,

if they're just zoned out, then that 15 or 20 minutes is

gonna feel like two hours.

And so, you just do that--

Right.

--over and over and over again.

And it can be disheartening.

Some people you'll pitch to, they'll

seem completely disengaged, uninterested.

And you're not surprised when you

get the phone call, ultimately, that they passed on it.

That's frustrating.

It's more discouraging and frustrating

when you have that person or people in the room who really

seem to connect to it, who really

do seem to understand it, who seem to love the project,

and you come out of that room kind of bouncing.

You're like, wow, I think that really worked.

That really went well.

I think they're going to buy-- that went really, really well.

And you get the phone call that they brought it

to their boss, who was like--

for whatever reason, kids, I don't know, kids and monsters?

No thanks, that's not for us.

And they end up passing on it.

So within that first week, it was--

so you're pitching your heart out,

and you're traveling all over town.

And I think we had 12 pitches in that week,

and it was 12 rejections, ultimately, in that first week.

And then, on that Friday, I remember

we got a call from our agent, who said that--

don't get too discouraged that it was a special project that

was gonna find a special home.

And it was just not the phone call you want to get.

Because you're like, what's wrong with my child?

Like, what's wrong with this?

The idea that he was calling it, um--

Special.

--special.

Kind of like, it was like, okay, well, this

is gonna be harder than we thought to sell it.

Butt--

Because we did feel very strongly about the script.

And we felt strongly about the pitch

and the additional materials.

And the producers had responded so positively.

And we were just--

it just felt like, for a second there, it wasn't gonna happen.

So I think what happens, inevitably--

and this is something that's important to know--

is that you do get rejected a lot,

you get the door shut on you a lot.

And it can be really wearing on you.

It can wear you down.

I mean, I know a lot of people have left,

you know, they stopped even pursuing it

because it got worn down so much by the rejection.

And at certain points, it can seem impossible.

It can.

I think the best thing to do when you're

feeling like you can't go take another step is you just

got to get back up, and you have to go back out there,

and you have to pitch it, like, with the confidence

that this is really cool and you really

do believe in it, which was the case.

I mean, I think we kind of got over it over the weekend.

I mean, we were starting to get, actually, pretty nervous

about it selling.

The challenge with all of this is

that there's an element of luck and timing involved.

So for the instance--

Yeah.

--on "Stranger Things," the instance was we weren't even

pitching to Netflix that wasn't even part of the plan Netflix

was making shows for Dave Fincher and Jenji Kohan.

She wasn't gonna make a Duffer Brothers show.

That wasn't even on anyone's radar.

They were so selective.

So we didn't even set a meeting with Netflix.

Someone new had just started to work there,

had a meeting with one of our agents on our team.

And they said, hey, we're looking for a show.

It should be youth-oriented, but we want it to be supernatural.

I don't remember the other key words he used,

but our agent was like, wait a minute, wait a minute,

wait a minute, I have the script for you, oh my God.

And he slipped him "Stranger Things."

This executive happened to really like the script.

And that got us our meeting.

But this is also where you need a good agent.

Because then our agents are kind of going, you know,

if you really are interested in this, it's really hot.

Like, a lot of people are interested in this,

you better act pretty fast.

Like, nobody was interested in this script.

No.

That is the other element of this,

which is you just need that first little bite of someone

being interested.

Right.

But they leverage that.

You need something to leverage.

And then, suddenly, there's excitement builds.

And then people go, oh, there's this hot script in town.

And that led to, ultimately, our meeting with Netflix

and them buying the project.

So--

No, but suddenly, people are taking us to steak dinners.

And, like, this from nobody was interested in this at all--

That's right.

--to one person expresses interest.

Suddenly, there's panic, everybody wants it.

And we're getting, like, they're buying us $100 steaks.

It's ridiculous.

But there's an alternate--

But that's how it works.

--but there's an alternate universe where that meeting

with that new Netflix exec doesn't happen.

Right.

It doesn't get in his hands.

The interest doesn't build like that.

So the point of this story is to not get discouraged.

Because there was definitely a version of this story

where the script doesn't sell, or maybe

we get a small little option fee and we develop

it a little more at a company.

And it just never gets made.

So that's the scary thing about it.

And so, there's always gonna be that element of luck

and timing, that it's just always gonna be there.

There's nothing you can do about it.

So there's gonna be a little bit of crossing your fingers.

And all you can do is write the best script possible,

get the best pitch, and go above and beyond

with your additional materials, whether that's

a look book, or sizzle reel, or both,

or whatever it is that you think you can do,

whatever ideas you have, to get people excited.

That's really all you can do, that's All

that's in your control.

The rest of it is up to fate.

[DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING]

Initially, Ross and I did not want to write,

or didn't see ourselves as writers,

I guess is a better way of putting it.

We really wanted to direct, that was our goal.

So it was very important to us that this was a show

that we would be able to direct, that we at least wanted

to direct the pilot.

But ideally, we wanted to direct the majority, if not

the whole show.

And so, that's one reason we did the look book, one reason we

did the sizzle reel, the fake trailer,

to show that we had a vision and understanding of this

beyond the written form.

But it was hard, because at that point,

we had made that one movie at Warner Bros., "Hidden," which

we talked a little bit about, which

was a bomb, which was a dud, which was never

released, right?

Which people always seem to have,

like, sort of lukewarm responses to.

I remember there was a company that really wanted

to make "Montauk" or "Stranger Things," that loved it,

like, they got it completely.

The phone call did come.

This feels like the one, yeah.

Yeah, it was like, this is the one.

This is where we're supposed to be.

They're gonna make this show.

Like, it really did feel like that.

I mean, this was a studio that had money,

that could make the show.

And they said, yeah, we don't want the guys directing.

So that was really hard.

I mean, first of all, it hurt my feelings

that they didn't like the film and they didn't

think we were good directors.

But secondly, we were in a tough spot, because at that point,

nobody was interested in the show.

And I don't know, it was a tough decision,

but we told our agents, listen, we're

not interested in doing this if we're not directing it.

We believed in it enough that we felt

we would find another home.

We're like, if these people responded

to it or this studio responded to it--

Someone else--

--another studio is gonna come and respond to it.

But it was at risk, it was a bit of a roll of the dice.

But it was like, for us, it was not

worth making if we weren't allowed to direct it.

It's like the whole reason we wrote

this was so we'd have leverage to be able to direct.

So at that point, we didn't have a lot of money.

We had worked on that one TV show.

We were running out of money from that television show.

Because we kind of hoarded that money

and used that to buy ourselves enough time to write this--

On the bank.

--show.

So with the bank, you know--

so we were basically gonna end up

having to work for another TV show or something,

if this didn't sell.

So it was a hard decision, but it was honestly

one of the best decisions we ever made,

which was to walk away from that company.

And the only lesson in that is, I

think, you know, stick to your guns, trust your gut.

If you really want to direct, or you want to be involved,

you want to be the show runner, I think you should say that.

I think you should stick to that.

I think a lot of people, especially

if you're inexperienced, they're gonna

be trying to push you out of that position

because it's just an easier sell to their bosses, basically.

But if you see yourself in that role, you got to say it.

You got to say that that's the requirement if you

want this script.

If your script's strong enough, hopefully--

if that company doesn't allow you to do it,

hopefully you'll find a company that does.

Netflix did, Netflix believed in us.

There are two things that also lessons

from that, which we found, at least in our experience, which

is confidence.

Even if you don't have it, which we certainly-- we

didn't know how to make a show, we just said we did.

Right.

There is something to be said about faking it

until you make it, which is just, project confidence,

if don't hedge your bets.

Do you guys know how to do this?

Don't say, well, I mean, hopefully, we

can figure it out.

No, no, no, just say, absolutely, this

is what-- we have a vision, this is how

we want to impart that vision.

And if you just fake confidence, you're

gonna make people feel a lot better.

And you're more likely to get what you want.

And also, there's a power in saying

no, if someone says, hey, we'll buy this project for you,

but these are the requirements.

If you say no, it actually gives you more leverage

than you think.

Because then what happens is they go, wait a minute,

this is someone who has a clear vision

and they're sticking to their guns.

And I think that that is something

that, at least in our experience,

has actually proved pretty beneficial.

So you shouldn't be afraid to say

no in certain circumstances.

What is gonna be your ally here

is just doing everything we've kind of stepped you through,

which is doing the work, planning, writing things down,

like you notice with the pitch.

Even that, every aspect of that was written down.

We weren't winging it.

We weren't having to--

that will give you the confidence when you go in these

meetings to sound like you know what the hell you're talking

about, even if you don't.

Just--

We were so nervous--

So nervous.

--going into the Netflix meeting.

We were terrified.

But if we got in there, uh, shaking and mumbling,

that probably wouldn't have gotten us the project.

But because Matt and I had rehearsed that pitch so

many times, that once we got going,

once we started it and said, hey, so you've probably

seen our look book, and we started those first couple

sentences, it fell into place.

We had done this so many times.

And we just pretended like we're just pitching to each other.

That confidence just-- even though we

weren't confident at all, Netflix saw it as confidence.

And that's all that mattered in that moment.

So, again, it's just, put in the work--

Put in the time.

--put in the time, plan it all out, don't wing anything,

and you know, you'll be fine.

So now, you know, you've started your script,

you're feeling confident about it.

I think it might be worth taking the time to develop

some of this pitching material.

It's good to put together a look book, if you can.

If you know how to edit on Final Cut, or iMovie,

or any of those programs, then it's fun

to start to put together, hey, this

is, maybe, what my world could look like.

Start to develop those materials you

would need to develop your own pitch.

And, you know, write out the pitch.

I mean, again, look, this pitch is one, two, three, four, five,

six, it's only seven-- it's 6 and 1/2 pages.

Yeah.

So it's not that long.

It's not that much longer than the page you wrote.

It's just basically organizing all the ideas you have.

You're not gonna have to be generating new ideas.

You're gonna have plenty of ideas at this point,

writing them down, organizing them

in the way that sounds as cool as possible.

And then, suddenly, you're gonna to have a pitch.

The minute you hire a producer, you're

gonna be like, hey, listen, I already

have a pitch ready to go.

I have this beautiful look book.

Here we go.

And that's fast.

And then they can send that out to the town.

All right, so you've sold your script.

If so, that's amazing.

Now, with "Stranger Things" we were

in a somewhat unique situation in that Netflix

had greenlit the series.

So we went straight into writing the rest of the series.

A lot of times what's going to happen is a studio or a network

is going to buy your script.

And then they're going to continue to develop it.

You're going to work with an executive there to continue

to hone the script and hopefully get into a place

that they feel comfortable with greenlighting that pilot.

So it sort of depends.

The situation is gonna depend on it.

But the goal, of course, always is

whether it's greenlit right away or later,

as you want to get greenlit.

You want them to obviously produce your story

and produce your show.

And when that happens, something really exciting

happens, which is you're going to get a writers' room, which

is something prior to "Stranger Things" we had never

been in a writers' room.

We didn't really know how a writers room worked.

What's great about a writers' room is that doing a TV show

can be overwhelming.

That's a lot of hours and characters

and storylines that you're tracking.

And sometimes when you're just working

by yourself, or in our case, a writing partner,

you can get lost in the woods.

And you get stuck.

And what's amazing about having other people

in the room and other voices is that they

can help you get unstuck.

And they can give you ideas that you never

would have thought of in the first place.

And so they can help you further blue sky

and further develop your idea and help you with your outlines

as you go and continue to develop the other episodes

of your show beyond the pilot.

So stepping back for a second.

So what is a writers' room exactly?

So a writers' room is basically something--

if you have a television show, it's a room of writers, right?

And they're going to be chosen by you.

If you're show-running, you're going

to be able to select who the writers are.

It's not like Netflix is going to say

you have to hire X, Y, Z, this person, this person,

this person, and suddenly give you these writers.

You're going to read a lot of scripts.

A lot of scripts.

A lot of scripts.

A lot of scripts that aren't going to be so good.

But every once in a while, you're going to read a script

you like.

You are going to then meet with that writer,

and you're just gonna feel it out.

It's like a-- kind of like a little first date or whatever.

You're going to see if you get along.

Does this person seem to like the same stuff you like?

Do you share similar sensibilities?

Do they bring something unique, something different than you

to the room?

Because you don't want to just hire a bunch of yous,

a bunch of people who think like you.

You already have yourself.

Or in this case, there's already two of us.

So we wanted to bring on people who

had maybe a different perspective, a different point

of view on everything.

And in terms of how many writers you want to hire,

it just depends.

Ross and I over the years have decided

we work better if there are fewer writers in the room,

fewer voices in the room.

That if it's a smaller room, that's

just how we like to work.

So right now, it's me, Ross, and four other writers.

So six writers total.

I think it was five--

it was five on season one.

And maybe it was even a little less on season two.

So every year we're sort of learning and experimenting

with how many writers we want.

But like Matt said, hopefully everyone

there has a unique perspective but also

a unique skill set that is helpful in terms

of developing your show.

We call it superpower.

We like-- we want every writer to have a specific superpower.

And we don't want any of those superpowers to overlap.

Like, if you're talking about superheroes,

you don't want every superhero to be shooting fireballs,

right?

So it's like--

Or being invisible, or whatever it is.

Right.

It's like everybody has to have their own unique little skill.

So we have one-- we have a writer who is--

what would you call it?

They're an idea generator.

They just machine gun out ideas, just a ton of ideas.

Terrible ideas.

Like, terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

Terrible idea.

Terrible idea.

And then, bam.

Brilliant idea.

So you need-- even the bad ideas are

good when they're thrown out because they might shake

something loose for you, or my brother, or another writer,

right?

So it's good.

We like to have this machine gunner

in the room, a guy or girl who can generate a lot of ideas.

Then we have what I would like to call the goalkeeper.

And this is an essential role because this

is someone who blocks all those bad ideas that

are getting machine gunned out.

They're polite about it.

But they basically are like, I don't like that idea.

I don't like that idea.

I don't like that idea.

I mean, I don't like it because of X, Y, Z.

So they're protecting the show.

They're looking more at the big picture.

Because the machine gunner isn't necessarily

going to realize that this idea that they generated,

which is really cool or could be fun, well,

yeah, maybe on its own it is.

But the goalie, or the goalkeeper

is going to go, well, in the story that we're

trying to tell, it's really just a detour.

And it's getting us away from where we want this story to go.

So you need someone who's going to be

critical because sometimes in a writers' room everyone

can just be very enthusiastic and go, I love your idea,

I love your idea, I love your idea.

But you need someone, hopefully who's not mean about it,

but who can go, well, I don't think

that's going to work for X, Y and Z reasons.

So again, you're just looking for people

with different perspectives and with different skills

as writers.

And all that's going to do is just make

writing a lot easier for you.

Because so many times Matt and I will get stuck in a loop

or we'll be writing, we'll be off in our own office

writing a scene, or a script, or working on the outline,

and we'll just get stuck.

And we don't know what the answer is.

And then we're gonna go-- we'll go back into the room

and go, hey, everyone, we're stuck on this.

Can you help us?

And people are going to start spit-balling ideas.

The goalie is going to say what isn't working.

And then someone's going to say some idea that

is way outside of the box of what Matt and I were thinking,

and suddenly, it's boom.

It's going to jar everything loose.

And we're going to go, oh wait a minute.

I see an avenue now to solving this.

So the writers' room can be a really helpful tool.

And it's also a reminder that as you're breaking this pilot

script, you do not need to have everything figured out.

We didn't even know we were gonna go into the upside down,

much less what it was going to look like.

Joyce was going to talk to Will through magnets.

That became Christmas lights as a result of someone's idea

in the writers' room.

Someone suggested we should do a mall in season three.

That came from another writer.

Again, all of these unique perspectives and voices

are going to be really helpful as you

start to develop a potentially eight hour or even

longer story.

And I think something you're going to weigh,

and the studio is going to want you

to weigh when you're hiring these writers is

they're going to want some level of experience in the room.

They're going to want you to have someone

in the room who has done this before,

who's been in 10 writers' rooms, OK?

Ross and I weigh experience a little less than most people.

I think we found a lot of people,

a lot of our best talent, a lot of our best writers,

a lot of the best people, frankly, on the show

didn't have a lot of experience coming into it.

So it doesn't matter so much, but it

is helpful to have at least one person in that room who

has done it before, who knows how these rooms function,

who knows how they work.

I don't think you want everyone to be super green.

But at the same time, I think the number one important thing

is that they're passionate, they're good writers.

I mean, you can tell by reading their scripts if they're

good writers or bad writers.

The good writers, and they share some--

you know, they share similar sensibilities with you

and they're bringing a new perspective for the room.

All of those things are more important, and in my opinion,

trump experience every time.

Yeah.

You're going to be in a room with these people

for many, many hours.

Many days.

Months, generally, in our case.

Up to eight months in a small room with these people.

And so you need to make sure everyone's

going to get along, that this person has a positive attitude.

So even if it's someone who is going to be critical of ideas,

they're saying in a way that is useful to the group

and that is still filled with positivity

because you want everyone in that room to get along.

Because if it's an environment that is--

like any office, if it's environment

that feels unhealthy or that people just

aren't getting along, you're just not going

to be very productive.

It needs to be an open creative environment

because it needs to be a place where everyone's comfortable.

Feels safe.

And feel safe to throw out any idea because everyone's

going to throw out bad ideas.

Ross and I throw out so many awful ideas--

So many bad ideas.

--every day.

And so do all of our other writers.

So you have to be not scared.

You have to create an environment where you're not

scared to throw out bad ideas.

And that works the best if everybody gets along

and no one's super judgmental of anybody.

You have to be able to say, for instance, I

think there should be a lizard creature in the mine.

And you have to be able to feel free to say that.

And then someone should feel free to say, I don't know.

Why is it a lizard creature?

You know what I'm saying?

I know what you're saying.

OK.

But right.

Yeah, I still think it's pretty cool.

All right.

The lizard creature.

We'll see what the internet thinks.

[LAUGHS]

And so once we finished with season one

of "Stranger Things," obviously it became a situation of, OK,

what is season two?

We'd already talked about how we had

a basic idea for that, which is involving Will's possession.

But one thing we've done to keep it interesting moving forward--

and I think it's true of season two and true

of season three and four is that we

think about each season as a sequel, which

is we're always interested in exploring

different tones, different moods, different storylines.

We want it to feel very different.

So we've always liked the idea of people--

not arguing over whether they liked or dislike

"Stranger Things."

But we like the idea of people arguing

over which season is their favorite, which is their least

favorite, very much how we argued about what's

the best "Indiana Jones."

So that was what we kind of wanted

to do with "Stranger Things."

So every season is something very, very different,

but it excites us.

So season two is a darker season.

It's kind of an exorcist possession

set in and around Halloween.

Season three, we knew it was going

to be released in the summer.

So we wanted to do basically our summer blockbuster.

We wanted it to be fun.

We wanted bright colors.

We wanted a giant monster in them all.

We wanted all of that.

So tonally, it's very, very different than season two.

Then season four, we didn't want to do that again.

We didn't want to do a big blockbuster season.

Even though it is coming out in the summer still.

So we wanted to go a little bit darker again.

We wanted to do--

Well, our kids are all--

our kids aren't kids anymore.

They're teens.

They're full-on teenagers.

They're in high school.

And so that inevitably changes the tone.

And we wanted to play with that tone

and go back to some of the horror films

that we grew up loving so much, whether it

was "Nightmare on Elm Street" or "Hellraiser" or these--

Or "IT."

It's funny.

Actually, if you look--

Steven King's "IT."

Right.

I think it's these touchstones.

And some of them we did talk about when we first

came up with the season.

And we played with them a little bit with Jonathan and Nancy

and Steve in season one.

But we really wanted to get back into that

and do a true really scary horror

film with our characters who used to be middle school aged

kids and now they're older.

So we thought we could go darker and scarier with them.

So that was sort of where we started off

when we did season four.

So again, like Matt's saying, the hope

was every season feels different.

And yes, some of that is just to keep

things fresh for the audience, but also to keep us excited,

keep our writers exciting, keep actors excited,

which is that-- and all of our other collaborators

who are producing the show with us.

Which is every season we're not just

trying to repeat ourselves, we're trying to do new things.

Inevitably, you know, you're going

to learn new things every season.

You're going to make new mistakes.

But you're also going to make new discoveries

and go, oh, wow, that was really exciting.

We should lean into that even more the next season.

And I think that's exciting to us.

And to not be afraid to try new things

and do different things because that's

what keeps our edge up and keeps us excited to go back

to this world year after year.

You know, once you've actually produced a show,

it's going to go out into the world.

And people are going to watch it.

A lot of people are going to watch it,

and they're going to have opinions.

And sometimes those opinions are going

to make you feel really happy and good about yourself.

And sometimes they're going to make you feel

a little down about yourself.

So what we try to do every season is just

try to block out all the noise and go back to that feeling

we had when we were first starting "Stranger Things,"

and just coming up with that big idea.

That was just Matt and I in our apartment

just spit-balling ideas.

So we try to block it all out and get back

to that, looking for that thing that excites us,

that makes us really want to sit down and write again.

That feeling that we told you that you're looking for,

which is that spark and that excitement.

We do that every year and just try

to find that excitement again.

And once we find it, and we go, oh, I can't wait to write that.

That's when we know we have the kernel of what

it's gonna become a new season of "Stranger Things."

I think the lesson in that-- and I think we've touched

on this a lot.

But I think you're your own best compass in terms of what

you like and what excites you.

In the same way that we suggested

you don't listen to studio executives,

I don't think you should be listening

to Twitter, or social media, or your friends.

I think you should be really, as much

as possible, listen to yourself and your own gut

and what excites you.

I think that's going to result in the best work possible.

And you can take all that in.

And we get notes.

And again, we hear from fans, what they like and don't like.

And some of it might resonate with you.

And you're going to go, you know what?

I think that's right.

And you're going to feel it in your gut.

But there's other stuff that people

are going to criticize that you're

gonna go, well, I understand they didn't like that,

but I really like that.

And I feel that's an essential part of the story,

so I'm gonna stick to my gut.

And I'm gonna stick to my guns.

And I'm gonna--

I'm gonna continue down that path.

And that's fine too.

Again, you're gonna have critics as you start producing stuff.

But, ultimately, you still need to be your harshest critic.

You know when I was flipping through those outlines

and just showing how we just kept doing it over, and over,

and over again?

We still have to do that.

Even though we found success with this first season,

we still are really hard on ourselves

because I think you have to be in order

to make something good.

You've got to just keep pushing yourself to get better,

and to get better, and to keep learning

and keep growing as an artist.

So we'll talk a little bit about 4

and some of the interesting challenges

in making season 4, of which there were many.

One of the biggest challenges, of course,

we were producing this and COVID hit.

So we shut down for about six months.

That resulted in some challenges.

For example, we had one actor, Dacre Montgomery,

who was in Australia, all the way in Australia.

And we had written a scene for him.

He was going to come back in episode 4 of the show

in the episode, "Dear Billy."

But we could not for the life of us

get him out of Australia into the United States.

It was impossible.

And the time finally came, we kept punting the scene

and punting the scene.

Surely, surely it's going to be easier

to get out of Australia.

It never happened.

Never panned out so we never got Dacre.

We never got Dacre out of Australia,

but we still have a scene between Max and Billy, Sadie

and Dacre that takes place in a cemetery.

So what we ended up doing is our director was actually--

Shawn Levy was directing that episode--

he shot Sadie's side of the conversation at the graveyard.

He had a stand-in for Billy, so any over-the-shoulder

shot you see is going to be with a stand-in.

And then he shot an empty frame without Dacre in it.

So Sadie is acting against nothing.

I mean, she's acting against a stand-in for Dacre.

I think they recorded Dacre's voice.

So they were playing Dacre's voice, but he was not there.

And then we shot-- months, months, months later, we shot--

In another continent.

In another continent, we shot Dacre against blue screen

in Australia.

And then we comped him in, and the scene works great.

You would never know it.

No more hiding.

Billy, that's not true.

I swear-- I swear, it's not true.

That is why you feel such guilt.

No.

Why you hide from your friends.

No.

Why you hide from the world.

No.

And why late at night you have sometimes wished to follow me.

COVID caused a lot of delays.

But one thing that it did afford us,

which we've never had on any season of "Stranger Things"

is we had time to go back.

Usually we're sprinting with these scripts.

We're writing them.

We hand them over to production, and it gets shot right away.

So this is the first time ever, we just

had a bunch of scripts that weren't being shot,

that were just sitting there.

And so Matt and I used the time to go back and go,

hey, we can plant an idea here that we're

going to pay off later.

We can--

Improve all these scenes.

And the character arcs, for instance,

that we were talking about, right?

About how a character-- you want some of your main characters

to go from A to B. Well, sometimes that

gets lost a little bit in the struggle

of juggling all these storylines and just in plot mechanics.

But we had the time now to go back and go, okay, wait,

this moment here is an opportunity

to further develop this character in his arc.

So it was a really fun process for us

actually to be able to go back and look at these scripts

and evaluate, can they get better.

And, again, you've got to be your harshest critic.

Everything can always get better.

There is going to always be a pencils down moment.

But for once in our lives, we are

able to go, hey, let's take a breath.

Let's look back.

And can we improve these scripts?

So it's actually interesting if we

start thinking about, what did we do when we had that time off

from COVID.

What would have been different had COVID not happened?

How different would "Stranger Things 4" have been?

I think it would have been not as good.

I mean, there were lots of things that were different.

Like, for instance, in episode 2,

when Eleven hits Angela with a roller skate.

That used to be set at a putt-putt course.

Angela.

So we were obsessed with this having to be at a putt-putt

course.

We could never find a good putt-putt course

that looked good.

We realized all putt-putt courses--

I don't know how I didn't know this--

but they're all right next to giant freeways.

It was going to be a nightmare for sound.

Anyway, we took the time and rewrote it

for taking place in a roller rink.

And I can't imagine that scene now not

taking place inside a roller rink,

and I can't imagine Eleven not smacking

Angela with a roller skate.

You can see bloody roller skates over there

behind us in honor of that moment.

Yes.

What else changed?

This is an example.

We didn't know until we were writing the finale when

Eddie is on top of his trailer rocking out with his guitar.

We didn't know that his guitar was going to play any purpose

or serve any role in the story.

So we did not set up that he had a guitar.

But at this point, we had written the finale.

We knew we needed to set up that Eddie was a guitarist.

So we went back, and we started to layer that idea in.

There's a scene in episode 1 when he's talking to Chrissy,

and he mentions how he plays guitar.

You played guitar, right?

Uh-huh, still do, still do.

You should come see us.

We play at The Hideout on Tuesdays.

It's pretty cool.

We-- we actually get a crowd of about five drunks.

[LAUGHS]

That was all part of a rewrite.

In fact, that whole scene was just a whatever scene

that got a ton better.

It's one of my favorite scenes in the show.

It was just a mediocre scene initially

between Eddie and Chrissy, where we just

got through the mechanics.

She's buying drugs from Eddie.

That was it.

All the sweet character moments came out in the rewrite, all

because basically we had to set up this guitar.

We have him-- when he's taking Chrissy

into his trailer at the end of that episode,

we have him kiss his guitar and give it a little strum.

And he calls it her, so we established that this guitar

means something to him.

[KISSES FINGERS]

[STRUMS GUITAR]

You're beautiful.

This is the kind of luxury we had in terms

of when we had time, we were able to go back--

Yes.

And refine these scripts.

Sometimes you can do this stuff with reshoots.

But oftentimes there's no time for reshoots.

And the reason is, could you just reveal

that Eddie has a guitar later.

Yes, but it's nice to set something up.

And this is something we didn't cover in the class,

where you're going to see-- if you do read the screenwriting

book, it's going to be all over our screenwriting book, which

is a plant and a payoff, which is you plant something

very early on in a script, and you don't pay it off

until much later.

Sometimes we do know what we want to pay off,

so we do plant it early on.

But sometimes we're not quite sure

where the story is going to go, or it

changes as we're developing it.

And in that case, it is nice to be able to go back and put it

in the script and plant something,

like as simple as a guitar, that then pays off

hours and hours and hours later.

And the last thing I would say just about what

that delay gave us is the voice of Eddie in Joe Quinn,

we didn't know as well as the other actors because we never

worked with Joe before.

But by the time we had been shooting

a couple of weeks with Joe when we had to shut down,

and so we started to hear his voice,

and we started to get a better handle on the character.

And this is something that we found as important

during production.

We talked about it a little bit with Maya Hawke in Robin

and with Finn Wolfhard as Mike, which is the actors that

are cast are going to change a little bit maybe

how you write these characters and what

their voices sound like.

So it gave us time to go back and go,

how can we get Eddie better so it's not just

setting up the guitar.

It's also going, okay, how can we improve his voice.

It's sort of like in that Dustin-Steve spin-off

that we were writing, where it's like I don't quite

know who Mack is.

Yes, we would figure out a little bit more

if we blue-skyed and worked on his character backstory.

But maybe we cast an actor who's just totally different

than we ever imagined him.

Great, now you have the ability to go back

and work on that voice more and make him even more interesting.

And hopefully what started out as a pretty basic character

or in the case of that spin-off thing that we wrote,

he didn't really have a character at all.

He wasn't doing anything.

He was just bouncing off of--

He was a brick wall.

He's a brick wall.

Well, suddenly, we can imbue him with a lot more personality,

and suddenly he's going to jump off the page

and jump off the screen in a much better way.

You don't remember me?

I'm sorry.

Middle school talent show, you were doing this cheer thing.

You know, the-- the thing you do.

It was pretty cool actually.

And I-- I was with my dad.

Corroded Coffin.

Corroded Coffin.

Oh, my god.

Yes, no--

You do remember, right?

Oh, of course, with a name like that, how could I forget?

I don't know.

You're a freak.

So at this point, we've reached

sort of the end of this class, and we hope you enjoyed it.

And thanks for sitting here and listening to us

talk and talk and talk about screenwriting for this long,

if you've made it this far.

I think it's just worth us kind of covering really

quickly some of the big points in this lesson,

since it was kind of long, or for us

what are the key moments or key takeaways,

the things we hope really stay with you.

Number one is big idea.

It's really important that you have the right idea.

Don't jump in till you feel that idea is right.

Be passionate about it and again simple, clean,

take from your life.

You don't need to write some sprawling

epic for your first script.

You haven't written anything before.

It's okay to be simple.

It is much more complicated, and I

think hopefully you've seen that over the course of us talking,

which is even telling a simple story,

there are a lot of elements to it and it can be complicated.

So it's okay to write something simple.

It's okay to give yourself a very simple story

for your first script.

Right.

And then the other thing is, at that point,

blue-skying, this is a part of the process

that we think is really important,

which is that free-form brainstorming.

Stream of consciousness.

Stream of-- take a lot of time.

Develop your idea.

Develop your idea.

Have fun with that stage.

And then once you do that and you're

starting to move in the more formal stages of outlining

and writing, I think we would just encourage you again

to stay out really wide.

Stay zoomed way far out and then slowly,

baby steps, right, like slowly zoom in closer, closer, closer,

closer.

It's going to come more-- it's going to come more and more

into focus.

And I think it can be so overwhelming.

Yeah.

And I think this is the most important thing.

You're going to watch a show or a movie that you love, right?

And it's going to feel impossible.

How in the world did they do all this?

How did they start with just a blank page and it became this?

Well, it got there very slowly.

It's a messy process.

It's a messy process.

As you saw, it started out-- our brainstorming for "Stranger

Things" started off with Sam Rockwell in a shack.

You know, it started out with nerd friend.

It started out almost--

so basic and simple and messy and a lot

of misspelling and bad grammar, and it just slowly became

the show that maybe you've seen and that you recognize.

But it was a long, long process to get there.

And it can be overwhelming.

But again, like Matt's saying, baby

steps, if you take it one little step at a time, suddenly

that blank page, which we know--

we know firsthand how scary that can be,

suddenly it's less scary because you don't

have to solve it all at once.

Just take it one step at a time.

And I promise you, it is a lot more doable than it seems.

So that kind of brings us to the end of the class.

We hope you got something out of it.

We're excited hopefully to one day meet you in Hollywood.

And that's my new dream, that someone

says they saw this class, and it helped them.

And now they're a very successful writer

or writer-director in Hollywood.

So that's my new dream so please make that come true.

We're rooting for you.

Take that spark of an idea and turn it into gold.

And remember just have fun.

[STATIC]

[INAUDIBLE]

This should be a fun process.

And you want to enjoy it as you're going

through it so try to have fun.

Find that passion.

Find that spark and best of luck.

[STATIC]