All language subtitles for Masterclass - The Duffer Brothers Teach Developing an Original TV Series_Full

MATT DUFFER: We're from
Durham, North Carolina.

Growing up we were
just nerdy kids

playing Dungeons and
Dragons with our friends.

ROSS DUFFER: We
always loved films

and we wanted to do
that for a living,

but we had no idea how
to make that possible.

How do you get from the
suburbs of North Carolina

to where we are now
in Hollywood, making

a show for Netflix?

MATT DUFFER: So
around third grade,

our parents for Christmas
gave us a Hi8 video camera.

We were really
excited about this.

Starting in the summer
of the fourth grade,

that's kind of when
everything changed.

We made our first
full length movie.

We will fight honorably.

And one more thing,
onward to battle!

ROSS DUFFER: Then when we
moved in to high school,

we said, is there a way to
make these movies even better?

So what we would
do is every summer

we would actually start
to write some scripts down

and this was our first
instance of us writing scripts.

I made it.

MATT DUFFER: And that continued
all the way into college.

We went to Film School
at Chapman University.

We were still mostly
focused on directing.

We realized at a certain
point that no one

was going to let us
direct anything if we

didn't have a script that we
could attach ourselves to.

Forget about it.

MATT DUFFER: So we took
some screenwriting classes,

we learned the basics
of screenwriting.

Structure, inciting incident.

We started to learn
some big ideas about how

to write a screenplay.

But father, you're
a man of science.

And a man of reason.

MATT DUFFER: So there was
a big turning point for us

and that was after
we had struggled

for a while in a
couple of scripts,

we weren't getting
anywhere with them.

And a lot of this was because
we were focused on what

we thought the industry wanted.

What was selling in the moment,
what people were excited about.

We just cut out all
the noise and we just

wrote something that was
really personal to us.

The story was called
"Hidden," and it

was about a family that was
hiding in a bomb shelter

from some mysterious
threat above the surface.

And we did something
which we hadn't really

been doing, which because
of the time crunch,

because of the financial
pressures, we just sat down

and we're like, we better
figure out this story before we

go into writing it.

And we outlined it.

And when we outlined it,
the outline worked and then

we wrote the script
incredibly fast.

It just fell into place
and "Hidden," was born.

It sold in a bidding
war to Warner Brothers

and we were suddenly
back on our feet

and feeling confident again.

ROSS DUFFER: There are many
ups and downs over that,

but that was a huge hurdle.

We didn't even know how to write
a screenplay to suddenly we

had sold a screenplay
and we had made money

with just words that we
have written on paper.

That night we went
to get a meal and I

remember it was such
a big moment for us

that we were able to
order soda with our meals,

because prior to that we
could only afford really

water with any of our meals.

To me it was Thai iced tea
at the local Thai restaurant,

that we were able to do that.

Like, Thai iced tea, please.

Also I felt a little bit
like sheepish about it,

but it was like, oh man, this
is a really good Thai iced tea.

It was a huge moment,
we're like OK, this is it.

We've made it.

But the big take away from
us was write something

that you're passionate about.

Write something that you
truly love, not something

that you think other
people are going to love.

And outline, outline, outline,
outline, plan, plan, plan.

But there was a shift in
the industry around the time

and there were a
lot of producers

that kept going, hey, well,
that's an OK movie idea,

but do you have a TV idea?

And so there was really
a move towards television

becoming more cinematic and
that started to get us excited.

And so we started to
go, well, you know what?

Maybe this is a
type of storytelling

that we could get
into and that's

what led us to eventually
develop "Montauk," which

is the pilot script
that would eventually

become "Stranger Things."

MATT DUFFER: It ended
up selling to Netflix,

and that moment, receiving
that call that Netflix was not

only buying our script, but
was greenlighting it to series,

and that they were comfortable
with Ross and I directing it,

was probably the best
moment of my life.

This class is really for anyone
who dreams of telling stories

for a living.

It's for the person who has 20
scripts in their drawer, none

of which have sold.

It's for the person who has only
written 20 pages of a script

and hasn't been able to
get past the 20 pages.

Or is just staring
at a blank screen

and they can't
write a single word.

You've got the idea, but you
don't know what to do with it.

It's also for people
who, like us, don't

know a single soul
in Hollywood and want

to see how this works and
see if this is something

that maybe you could actually
do and you can make a reality.

MATT DUFFER: This class
is also for people

who just love "Stranger
Things," and want

to see how we created the show,
how we built it from an idea

all the way through the script.

To show you how
it works, we're

going to go into documents
and things we wrote.

Netflix has never seen it.

Our actors have never seen it.

So we're going to be showing
you those top secret "Stranger

Things" documents
for the first time.

ROSS DUFFER: We'll use examples
from "Stranger Things,"

from the pilot all the way
through stuff from season 4.

Bitching, right?

Yeah, yeah, bitching.

MATT DUFFER: So
something else we're

going to do to show you
how this process works is

we're going to create our own
fake Dustin and Steve "Stranger

Things" spin-off series.

This is imaginary, it's
just for this class,

but we're going to generate
the idea in real time

for you and we're going
to write the opening hook

and under extreme
time constraints,

and hopefully it's
going to be some fun.

This is not a real
thing, Netflix.

ROSS DUFFER: We love
writing, it is a fun process.

Yes, it is frustrating at
times, it gets scary at times,

you get stuck.

It doesn't feel like you're ever
going to get unstuck sometimes,

but what we try to do with
this class is show you

our process because
this is what we found

has made writing as smooth
as possible and as fun as

possible.

I'm going to be a
little dramatic here.

Right here we cut to black.

Hey, I'm Ross.

I'm Matt.

Together, we're the
Duffer brothers.

And this is "MasterClass."

The first stage of development
is coming up with your idea,

or what we like to call
just sort of the big idea.

And this is, honestly, one
of the most crucial things

you're going to do in the
whole process, if not the most

crucial.

Because assuming this
goes well, you're

going to be working with this
idea for potentially years,

or in our case, we've been
doing it now seven years

with "Stranger Things."

So you're going to want an idea
that really gets you excited

and really inspires you.

I think it is a
mistake a lot of people

make in that they sort of--

they're so excited
to write a script

and have a script that
they kind of go, well,

that idea sounds good.

Let me just start to write it.

I mean, we've certainly
made that mistake,

where we've started
writing an idea--

there's something good
just conceptually wrong

with the idea, or the idea
itself is not exciting enough,

and there's nothing you can do.

You know you could waste
a year or two years

working on something that is
actually just the problem is

that the very first stage.

So it's important that this
first stage you get right,

and you're working on an idea
that you're really, really

excited about you.

Have to have a ton of passion
for it, because best case

scenario, you know, like in
the case of "Stranger Things,"

it works, and people
like it, and then you

could be working
on it for a decade.

So make sure you love this idea.

This is a difficult part
of the process to talk about,

but the way we work, in terms
of coming up with that big idea,

is we just start throwing
a ton of ideas at the wall,

and we're just
seeing what sticks.

And I think sometimes, people
make the mistake of going,

well, they're looking around
at the shows or the movies that

are popular right now.

The classic, back when
we were growing up,

was this is going to
be like "Die Hard,"

but I'm going to put it
in a different location--

"Die Hard" on a bus.

But that worked.

"Die Hard" on a bus worked, but
don't let that throw you off.

So really, I think
what you want to do

is just think about
what excites you.

A lot of it should be
more personal than that.

I think the problem with
looking around at what's popular

and riffing on that
is that may not have

any personal meaning to you.

It's just what's popular,
what's in the zeitgeist now,

but that is changing so rapidly.

I remember when we were
coming up in college,

we wanted to sell a script.

The big thing was found footage.

Right?

So I found footage is not
much of a thing anymore,

and we were never huge
fans of found footage.

But we suddenly found ourselves
trying to write a found footage

movie, and we didn't really
care about found footage.

Because we didn't have
a lot of passion for it,

the lack of passion
translated to bad scripts.

So I think an epiphany
that we had was--

and it seems so obvious now, but
it wasn't to us at the time--

was just kind of cut
out all the noise.

Stop reading "Variety" and
Deadline and all the Hollywood

trades and obsessing
over what's selling,

and just focus on what you
love, what you grew up loving,

what you love now.

Maybe it's something
personal as a family,

a story from your family.

Or in our case, like
our first movie script

that sold was called
"Hidden," and it

was set in a bomb shelter.

We had a friend growing
up in North Carolina,

and he had a bomb
shelter in his backyard.

And we made a little short
film set in this bomb shelter.

So we always thought,
hey, you know,

wouldn't it be cool
to set an entire movie

Inside of a bomb shelter?

Like that would be
challenging but fun,

and it was based
on this experience

we had as kids in
this bomb shelter

that scared the
living hell out of us.

So it's a sort of
combination where

you're pulling from your
life, but part of your life--

it certainly was
for Matt and I--

is we grew up loving movies.

And so we're looking
at those movies,

and we're looking at what
inspired us about that,

and then you're combining that
with your experiences growing

up.

Or in the case of "Stranger
Things," a lot of it

is based around our
friendships we had

and the amazing times we had
when we were kids, growing up

and our summers hanging
out with our friends.

[INTERPOSING VOICES]

We certainly didn't
encounter any monsters

or other dimensions,
but that friendship

became such a core of that idea.

So I think it's a mix of those
two things, or it's something

that you're very
obsessive about.

For instance, Matt and I love
a good conspiracy theory.

I remember in high school,
we made a short film

about the Philadelphia project,
and we love the JFK conspiracy.

So we're sort of a little
bit of conspiracy nuts,

and we like looking at all
that stuff, which led us--

we'll get into it
later-- but it led us

to the "Montauk" project,
which led directly

to "Stranger Things."

So it could be just
something in your life.

There's another
advantage to choosing

something that's a little bit
more personal, which is that

it--

especially if this is an early
screenplay that you're writing.

Maybe it's your
first screenplay.

Maybe it's your second or
third, or whatever it is,

but certainly, we
found it easier

if it's something that
we're familiar with, if it's

populated with characters
or a location or setting

that we're somewhat
familiar with.

It's just easier to
write, so you don't

have to do a year of research.

That is a way to go, and
there's nothing wrong with that.

If you want to do like say
a historical screenplay,

go for it.

I just would discourage
you from doing that maybe

on your first screenplay.

I mean, knock yourself out.

It's just you're
going to require

a lot of additional work
and a lot of additional--

and as you're learning sort
of the fundamentals of writing

and the fundamentals of
how to write dialogue,

it's just so much
easier if you can

tap into voices that you are
more intimately familiar with.

Even on season one
of "Stranger Things,"

we felt so much more comfortable
writing the voices of the kids.

Just those scenes wrote
themselves very quickly for us.

A shadow grows in
the wall behind you,

swallowing you in darkness.

It is almost here.

What is it?

What if it's the demogorgon?

Oh, Jesus, we're so screwed
if it's the demogorgon.

It's not the demogorgon.

An army of troglodytes
charge into the chamber.

Troglodytes?

Told you.

ROSS DUFFER: It was harder
for us to write the scientist.

So you'll notice on season one,
Dr. Brenner doesn't talk a lot,

and that's OK.

I think leaning
into your strengths

and what you're good at,
and like Matt's saying,

particularly for this first
script, is a great idea.

I think the goal
really needs to be

telling a simple story which
is much more difficult than it

seems.

It should seem easy when someone
ultimately reads your script,

like this just came out of you.

But it's a process even to
tell a simple, clean story that

moves from A to B to C to D.

One fun thing about pulling
from things you love

is it gives you an excuse
to watch TV shows and movies

and even rewatch things
that maybe you've

seen a dozen times, just
to look at how it's done,

and also try to find some
inspiration in there.

It's like the best
homework ever.

It's true, and I don't
think you even have

to limit yourself to movies.

I mean, if you're
really into video games,

some board games now
have amazing narratives.

I mean, just continue
to consume that stuff.

And do big movies,
small movies, whatever.

You know, the big shows
everyone's watching,

the small shows, even stuff
that doesn't work is helpful.

And for us, it may just be
like a kernel of an idea.

I remember for the
first script that we

wrote that actually
really worked

and that sold, the one
that Matt had referred

to that was set
in a bomb shelter

called "Hidden," the
movie that sparked

that was a very small
independent film

called "Monsters," which is
directed by Gareth Edwards who

would go on to direct
"Godzilla" and "Rogue One."

But what really inspired
us about "Monsters"

is he went out, and he
made a very small movie

for not a lot of
money, and it did

have this supernatural
stuff that we loved.

And it had giant monsters,
because we're children

at heart, so we love that.

But at the heart of that movie
really was a relationship.

Gareth was able to tell a
story with a huge scope,

but tell it very
intimately, and we

decided we wanted to try to
do something in that vein.

And then two other movies
that really inspired us

that were also in that vein were
David Fincher's "Panic Room"

and M. Night
Shyamalan's "Signs,"

and these are all films
that really spoke to us.

And when we started to rewatch
them and break it down,

what we realized is
that what was really

the connective tissue here
was they were big ideas.

But at the heart of them,
just like in "Monsters,"

it was really just
about these families.

"Panic Room" was about
a mom and her daughter,

and "Signs" was about a
family, and specifically man

who's who was sort of broken
in that family healing

over the course of that movie.

And so we go, even though
there are these huge ideas--

you know, aliens,
robbers, giant monsters--

the heart of those movies
isn't really about that.

It's about something else.

That is the kind of story
that we wanted to tell--

ordinary meets extraordinary.

So you can look at it like
that, and you can break it down.

And I mean, it's
very broad, ordinary

meets the extraordinary,
but it was the type of film

that we hadn't seen
a lot of out there.

And that's ultimately what led
to "Hidden," the bomb shelter

movie, as we're calling it
and then and then, ultimately,

"Stranger Things."

So I think it's
important, as you're

watching these movies
that love and inspire you

to try to break
down, maybe there

is something that's connecting
all of these things you love.

Maybe there's sort of a thread
that runs through all of them,

and I think
identifying what that

is could help you identify what
kind of story you want to tell.

It's normal and good, in
fact, to take inspiration

from these people
who have mastered

the art of storytelling,
who have come before you.

Right?

And look at what they did,
look at what is successful,

and then take your own
personal experience

and sort of overlay that on top.

And hopefully, you're bringing
your own point of view.

You're not trying to
emulate, but you're

trying to take the
spirit of what they did

and infuse it with
something that's

very unique to you, which
is your own personality

and your own personal history.

And your own voice.

And your own,
yeah, your own voice.

As you're searching
for this big idea,

one thing that's really
important to keep in mind

is drive.

I think every story needs
sort of a core drive,

and if you've read
any screenwriting

book or heard any
screenwriter talk,

you're probably sick
of hearing this,

but the idea of a core
drive, the idea that there's

a character who wants something
and is having difficulty

getting it, it's true.

I mean, you really do need that
in order to propel your story,

in order for the story to work.

You know, listen, you can have
the most beautiful characters

in the world, but what
is getting the reader

to just continue
to turn the pages.

And by drive we don't
mean-- it doesn't

have to be save the planet.

I mean, it doesn't have to
be a Marvel-level drive.

It can be a very small drive.

Like in the sense of
a romantic comedy,

it's winning over
the boy, winning

over the girl, whatever it is.

If you don't have
a drive, it'd be

like building a car
without an engine.

Right?

It's just not going
to run very well.

People are not going to
get past page three, four,

or five, whatever it is.

If you look at "Hidden,"
it's a very simple drive.

Right?

It's actually kind of built
into the title of the piece.

It's called hidden.

The goal of the film, the
drive is, to remain hidden.

So we have characters
in a bomb shelter.

They're trying to stay hidden.

Something alerts the outside
presence, these bad guys above,

that perhaps they're
in the vicinity.

And the goal for
them is to remain

hidden throughout the film.

So it's a very, very
basic, simple drive.

But our very first script
that got us an agent--

and we'll go into
that more later--

was something called "Origin."

Our main character
woke up, and this

was in the midst of a pandemic.

And he realized he was infected.

He was sick, and he had two
hours to try to cure himself.

Very simple goal--
he is going to die

at the end of this script, if
he's not able to find a cure.

It's a very simple drive,
and your characters

are trying to achieve that goal.

Like Matt saying,
they want something.

They're having
difficulty getting it.

They want to stay hidden.

They're having difficulty
staying hidden.

Why are they having
difficulty staying hidden?

Because we, as the
writers, are going

to continue to throw obstacles
in their way to staying hidden.

So every time they're going to
solve one obstacle that they're

like, phew, maybe
we're hidden now,

there's going to be
something else that happens,

that's going to actually make
their situation even worse.

They're going to solve that,
but then something else

is going to happen
that's going to make

it even harder to stay hidden.

And it's just going to continue
to sort of build and snowball

and escalate, in this way,
you have the audiences

keep turning the pages.

In the course of
"Stranger Things,"

everyone's learning
more and more,

but it keeps getting more
and more complicated.

Finally, they have
the puzzle pieces,

and you lead to the
climax, but you've

got to keep throwing these
obstacles in the way.

But the obstacles
aren't going to exist,

if we don't understand what your
main characters are actually

trying to get, what their
goal is, what their drive is.

But like it's not
just about plot.

I think that's a mistake.

If you're thinking,
OK, well, this just

sounds very plot-driven,
but it actually

involves character and
character building.

The way that your characters
resolve or overcome

these obstacles
is going to reveal

a lot about who they are.

The methods they use to
resolve those obstacles

reveals who they are.

If you think about
"Stranger Things,"

that's how you learn who
these characters are.

Obviously, "Stranger Things,"
there's a lot going on in it.

Right?

But when you really boil
it down, Will is missing,

and we want to find Will again.

It's a very simple drive.

Finding a story
and finding a drive

is really the most
basic, fundamental aspect

of storytelling.

Let's talk a little
bit about how do you

brainstorm your idea?

So we talked about you
can pull from your life.

It's more of an art than a
science, brainstorming is.

I think it's good to let your
mind wander a little bit.

This is not something
that you can force.

So one thing that Ross
and I like to do a lot

is listen to music.

We don't like listening
to music with lyrics.

We like listening
to movie music.

I've always loved movie music.

The lyrics get my
head, whatever.

I mean, this is going to
be very personal to you,

but the good thing
about listening to music

is you can kind of let your
mind wander a little bit.

You don't want to
force it too much.

There's other techniques.

A lot of the good
ideas that we've had

have come when we're not trying
to think too hard about them.

They'll come when
you're driving to work.

They'll come when
you're taking a shower.

I mean, all of those are good
ways of coming up with it.

Ross and I, it helps
that there's two of us.

It works with just one person
as well, but we like to walk.

There's something about walking
that gets the juices flowing

in your brain.

I think it's very difficult,
if you just sit down

in front of your computer,
and you're looking

at a blank computer page.

And you're like, OK,
what is my movie idea?

That's going to
be really tricky.

That's going to
be more helpful,

once you have the idea, and
you're developing it further.

But for this initial big
idea, it is, like Matt saying,

it's a tricky thing to teach.

There's no right or wrong way.

You're going to have
your own process.

But again, I think
if you just try

to sit down in front of
a computer and force it,

you're probably just
going to get frustrated.

We've certainly done
that many times.

We've gotten
frustrated many times.

But I think it is
important to give yourself

some time and space to
come up with the idea.

Even though it is potentially
one, two, three sentences,

that can take a lot of time.

So it seems very easy,
but the idea is not.

I mean, the idea is everything.

So it's going to take
some time, and when

we step through kind of exactly
how we came up with "Stranger

Things," you'll see that
it was kind of developed,

this idea over the course of--

how many years?

Five?

Five years.

Five years.

Something like that.

In terms of the whole
process of writing,

arguably coming up with a big
idea is the most important.

Again, take your time with this.

Be patient with it.

Think back on your
life, the things

that you love, your memories
growing up as children,

your friends, maybe this
story your neighbor told you,

pull from these things.

Pull from works of art you love.

Take your time.

Come up with a bunch of ideas.

A lot of them are
going to be bad.

We write down so many bad ideas.

You'll see some of them.

You'll see some of them.

We throw so many things at
the wall, and so many of them

don't stick, and that's OK.

You're going to feel it, when
you have that idea that just

gets you excited and like you
want to sit down and write it

right now.

I think you're going to feel it.

We certainly have.

When we haven't felt it,
and we've tried to force it,

or maybe it's a
half-formed idea,

it's missing some
important element

and we've tried to
write it and force it,

that ends up just
wasting a lot of time.

Because you're just-- there's
something conceptually wrong.

So you want to try to wait.

It's not a science.

It's going to be
different every time.

So I think the first
assignment for this class

is probably the best assignment,
the most fun assignment.

Definitely.

Which is just watch some
of your favorite stuff.

Watch some of your
favorite movies.

Watch some of your favorite
shows, whatever it is you want.

Read some of your favorite
comic books, whatever it is.

Or your favorite
books, I mean,

that'll take a little bit
longer than watching stuff,

but whatever it is.

And then try to identify
what is the connective tissue

between the stuff that you love?

Is there a connective tissue?

Is there something
unique about your taste?

Is there a reason
that you're drawn

to those particular stories?

See if you can figure
out what that is.

And again, for us, it was
ordinary meets extraordinary.

It doesn't have-- it can
be something very simple.

It can be just one
simple thing that

is connective tissue between all
of these things that you love,

and maybe that will help give
you your inspiration for what

you're going to write.

Something is coming,
something hungry for blood.

[DOG BARKING]

Oh.

[LIGHT BULB ZAPPING]

[STATIC BLIPPING]

The idea for "Stranger Things"
actually traces all the way

back to 2010.

At that point, we were in
the middle of writing movies.

We wanted to write movies.

We actually sat down
and just wrote out--

I think we spent a
week or two weeks

just spitballing a
lot of movie ideas,

as we were trying
to figure out, what

are we going to write next?

And we actually still
have this document.

You'll see all the
ideas we wrote out.

And we've talked about
this a little bit before,

but you're going to
throw out a lot of ideas.

A lot of them are
not going to be good.

And even the idea that
is "Stranger Things"

or would turn out to become
"Stranger Things" was not

good in the 2010 iteration.

There was a kernel there.

But even then in 2010,
we didn't realize

that that kernel was there.

It just sort of sat there.

We put it away in a drawer, and
we didn't look at it for years.

And, again, this is why even
ideas that you might not think

are good or whatever,
keep a record of them,

don't lose them.

Email them to yourself.

Keep them on Google
Docs or whatever program

you're using, because you
never know, years from now,

it may come back
and actually prove

to be an important part
of an idea, a puzzle

piece of an idea that
you're working on,

which is what happened
with "Stranger Things."

So we're going to show
you now this 2010 document

where we came up with a bunch
of different movie ideas.

I don't think we've
shown this to anyone

outside of our parents and a
few close friends back in 2010.

Some of these ideas,
like Matt said,

are not the best in the world.

But, again, that's
part of the process.

So let's take a look
at this document.

MATT DUFFER: Yeah,
screenplay ideas from-- this

is-- it looks like
November 22 from 2010.

We have a movie idea
for something called

Make-A-Monster.

That's not a good title.

ROSS DUFFER: "In
the near future,

advancements in
genetic engineering

allow for the designing of
unique domesticated pets.

For example, a website
called Design-A-Dog

allows you to mix
breeds to create

your own personalized puppy."

And then this young boy
named Liam finds a company

to actually make a monster,
which is you combine DNA

from different animals, and
he creates his own monster,

which, of course,
then ends up turning

into a bit of a nightmare.

Uh.

Uh.

You know, whatever.

I don't know.

There's a reason that was--

I give it--

--shoved into a drawer.

But if one of you want to run
with that idea, go for it.

I give it-- but you know what?

Here's what is
interesting, though,

about this Make-A-Monster idea.

So we love the idea of a kid
raising a monster, right?

So it-- or we liked some
aspects of it, right?

It feels a little
like "Gremlins"-y.

And the spirit of that kind of
wound up in "Stranger Things"

Season 2, when we
had Dustin have--

ROSS DUFFER: That's true.

MATT DUFFER: --raising Dart.

[GROWLING]

Mediocre idea, mediocre title,
but there were elements of it

that we ended up using, like,
however many years later, eight

years later.

So--

Then the second idea--

--you never know.

--we've got is Frame 285.

MATT DUFFER: Better title.

ROSS DUFFER: Better title.

I think better idea.

There's some logical
issues with this one.

We-- like we said earlier,
we love conspiracy theories.

We're particularly obsessed
with the JFK conspiracy theory.

So-- or conspiracy
theories, I should say.

So this is really about there's
a missing frame in the Zapruder

film, which is Frame 285.

And so the idea is that this
missing frame is actually

the key to solving JFK's murder.

So the idea is that
this is, again--

I think we mentioned
this earlier.

We were trying to write
some found footage stuff,

because that was in back then,
which was a mistake, because we

don't even like found footage.

So the idea is that
it's the babushka lady.

She's filming the assassination.

And people basically want to
come after and get this footage

from her, because it shows who
the real, true perpetrators

are.

And so it's found footage
with these assassins

coming after this family.

It's not a terrible idea,
but the problem with the idea

is how do you do a found
footage movie when it was--

with 19-- I think
that was set in 1963.

You know what I mean?

That was where--
we ran into some,

like, real conceptual problems.

It's not terrible.

It's definitely better
than Make-A-Monster.

Amidst these, like, whatever
sea level ideas, mediocre ideas,

we have something called
The Montauk Experiment.

Again, just like Frame 285,
it was a found footage idea.

Found footage was all the rage,
so we were like, we better

write a found footage idea.

And this was based on--

The Montauk Project, this
is based on a true life

conspiracy.

It's set in Montauk, Long
Island, Air Force base.

This is something we read
about in high school,

and I think we stumbled
across it when we were--

Doing that--

We were doing, like,
a small documentary

for school about the
Philadelphia Experiment.

We read about the
Montauk Project.

We became obsessed with it.

And the idea was
the US government

was conducting these sort of top
secret experiments in this lab,

and some weird
stuff had gone down.

What we liked about
this conspiracy,

that there was a lot
of flexibility in terms

of what could happen there.

I mean, there were
talks about time travel.

There were talk about-- there
was a discussion about monsters

being unleashed, experimenting
on civilians who developed

psionic or psychic abilities.

So there was a lot--

the sandbox was really cool.

But that's--

We were always excited by
the sandbox of what The Montauk

Project could offer us.

And, really, when you
boil it down, what it--

it is from the scientist's point
of view because it's-- this is

a found footage
version of this story.

But there's a protagonist
who they're studying,

who's basically the only known
test subject who survived.

And this really became
the prototype for Eleven,

because this is a test
subject who survived,

who was one of
many test subjects

who developed psychic abilities
due to tests by the government.

So if that sounds
familiar to you,

then you've clearly
watched "Stranger Things."

And so it's like, I think
the question is, like, why

didn't we write it in?

We didn't write it
in because, again, I

think it was the found
footage aspect of it.

We didn't know really how
to write found footage.

We always struggled whenever
we tried to go to page

and write a found footage story.

So we could just never crack it.

We didn't know--
we didn't really

understand how storytelling
worked as a found footage.

And also, it was so
much about the scientists

and the way they did
it, which, again, we do

see flashbacks in Season
1 to the testing and stuff

they've done with Eleven.

But we just couldn't get
that excited about telling

the entire story set
within a lab like that.

MATT DUFFER: So we
put these ideas away.

We put them in a drawer.

We were not actively
thinking about them.

But, again, they're simmering
in the back of our brains.

Something might spark for you.

The spark for us was--

occurred three years later,
when we saw the Denis Villeneuve

film starring Hugh
Jackman, Jake Gyllenhaal,

called "Prisoners,"
which doesn't

seem to bear a
lot of resemblance

to "Stranger Things."

But this is the thing-- this
is the movie that sparked it.

So Ross and I were
walking out of that movie.

We loved the movie.

We were talking about it.

At the same time, we
had seen ads for, like,

"True Detective."

So we were into the idea of,
like, a cinematic television

show.

And we started to
talk about what

"Prisoners" would
have felt like had it

been like "True Detective."

I think one thing
when we came out

of it, when we were
talking about it,

we just loved these characters.

We loved the Jake
Gyllenhaal character.

And we just wanted--

and we loved the Hugh
Jackman character.

And we went, well, we had seen
these ads for "True Detective,"

and we knew television was
starting to become cinematic.

And they felt like
these long movies.

And we went, well,
I would have loved

to stick around with these
characters for another five

or six hours.

Like, that would be
cool to tell a long--

this story as a long narrative.

And so that started to--

we started discussing
it and said, OK, well,

what if we told a kidnapping
story that spanned over, say,

eight hours of time?

Which doesn't seem like-- it's
not the most amazing idea ever.

Not groundbreaking, no.

Not groundbreaking, but
then we thought, of course,

we still have the
nerdy qualities to us,

where we want to go, what if
there was an actual monster

in it, not just a serial
killer-type monster,

but a real monster in it?

ROSS DUFFER: What
if we put a spin

on it, a supernatural spin?

[CLANGING]

We started thinking about
poltergeists and all this

and go, well, what if we
told this kidnapping story

we were talking about,
but what if instead

of a traditional kidnapping,
it's a supernatural kidnapping?

So it's really we had those two
words that were like, OK, well,

that's starting
to get us excited.

It started to be a little
bit more interesting.

It was like, OK, we
haven't seen that before.

And then what would
this supernatural--

ROSS DUFFER: Kidnapping.

What would kick off the
supernatural kidnapping?

And that's what led us back
to thinking about The Montauk

Project.

In this 2010 document.

In this document from 2010.

What really got us
excited then was we

started to think about
the time period of that.

The Montauk Project occurred
late '70s, early '80s.

And we go, OK,
well, this would now

be-- that would
dictate the story being

set in the early '80s.

And we were like, OK,
that's really interesting--

Yes.

--because then we can kind of
pay homage to these films that

we grew up loving, a lot
of the sort of films from

the Spielberg era, right?

So that's when you
think about "ET,"

you think about "Poltergeist,"
you think about "Jaws."

And then we got--
then we're like, OK,

now we're actually
really on to something.

And that was-- immediately,
we go, that's it.

That's the next thing
that we're writing.

And I think the beauty,
as Matt mentioned earlier,

about the Montauk
Project conspiracy is not

a lot is known, so it gives
you a lot of flexibility.

There were rumors of
kids with psychic powers.

And there were also rumors
about monsters coming

through another dimension.

So suddenly, we have these
two big ideas floating around,

which is we had psychic powers--

[SCREAMS]

ROSS DUFFER: --we had monsters--

[CRUNCHING]

[ROARING]

[HIGH-PITCHED SCREECHING]

[SHOUTING]

--and we had what "Prisoners"
gave us, which is this--

a drive, which you always
need, which is a kidnapping.

And this is-- once
that all sort of hit,

as we walked out of "Prisoners"
and the following morning

when we talked about it,
we knew we had an idea.

We had that spark.

We had what we felt--

and, again, it's a
little bare bones now,

but we felt we had
that big idea that we

had been looking for so long.

And what those two words,
supernatural kidnapping,

gave us on top of all
of these other ideas

is it gave us a drive, which is
what we talked about earlier.

It gives us that glue
to hold it together,

because if you really start to
break down "Stranger Things,"

there's a lot going on.

It's-- you've got the monster.

You've got the psychic powers.

You've got this broken sheriff.

You've got-- there's a
lot of stuff going on.

But what we knew-- and we
didn't have all those ideas yet,

but we did have a--

we were starting to come up
with some of these ideas.

And we knew that no matter
what ideas we came up with,

we had this drive.

We had a missing kid
that we had to find.

And we knew no matter what
we-- what crazy ideas we

threw at it, we have this glue
that would hold it together.

Hopefully, you have something
like that in your big idea.

It will certainly make
your life a lot easier

as you move forward.

So one thing I think
that is important

is to write down your ideas like
we did in that 2010 document.

It's good to keep a record
of all your old ideas.

You may forget them.

It's fun to come back to them.

Maybe you'll come back
to them years later,

something else
will spark, right?

These ideas are going
to be simmering there.

Maybe you have the
next "Jurassic Park."

I don't know.

I think a lot of
people think you

have to send it into the
WGA or anything like that.

You don't.

Just email it to yourself.

You're covered.

But it's important.

Write it down.

I think also writing down
illuminates some things.

Can you write it down in a way?

Does it come across in a
written form very clearly?

It should.

If it doesn't, maybe your idea's
too complicated or too muddled.

So anyway, take the time.

Write it down.

These don't have to
be long descriptions.

If you're reading
screenwriting books,

you're going to hear
a lot about a logline.

And a logline is usually
one to three sentences

which summarize your idea.

Now, what Matt and I do is we
write a little bit more just

to see how that story's flowing.

Now, it's still missing
a lot of the big details.

But as you saw in
that 2010 document,

we like to write sort of
a short paragraph, maybe

six to eight sentences.

Just give it a little more
just to see how it's feeling.

And that's exactly what we
did with "Stranger Things"

before we even sat
down to outline it.

We wrote it out
in paragraph form.

We sent it to our agent.

And we said, hey,
here's our new idea.

What do you think about it?

So this is what we wrote
back in 2014 to our agent.

We said, "We're
calling it Montauk,

and it's a limited series set
in 1980s Montauk, New York."

And we made a little note here.

"Note, Montauk back then
was akin to Amity in "Jaws,"

not upscale like today.

The small suburban
community is shaken

when a 10-year-old boy vanishes
into thin air one night

while biking home.

We follow the boy's friends,
family, and teachers

as they try to uncover
what happened to him.

We soon realized that the
disappearance is somehow

linked to strange happenings in
Montauk Air Force Station, home

of the Montauk Project, where
a series of secret government

experiments allegedly took place
in the late '70s, early '80s.

But the boy's disappearance
is just the start,

as stranger, more horrifying,
seemingly unexplainable

happenings take
place all over town.

And evil has been
unleashed here.

Think "Super 8"/'80s Spielberg
crossed with vintage Stephen

King, and you'll get the idea."

I do remember
specifically you, like,

writing that down in email and
going, this sounds really cool.

Like, we were really
excited about it.

We were excited to
share it with people.

And I think the previous
document, the 2010,

we were sort of like, should
we send this to people?

I don't know.

We were a little bit embarrassed
about some of the ideas.

This one, we were
like, man, I really

want to send this right away,
and how could someone not

find this cool?

Because we-- it
was just-- to us,

it was all the coolest
stuff in the world.

And even though this is a
little more than a logline,

this is a little more
than a couple sentences,

it is very vague at this point.

We say "friends,
family, teachers."

There's no mention of anyone
remotely resembling Eleven.

There's no mention of a sheriff.

There's no mention
of the boy's mom.

This is a really--

again, don't stress out.

You're going to be missing a lot
of the big details right now.

That's going to be--

we're going to get into
that a little bit later.

It's OK to be vague.

This is really just about that
big idea, that big concept.

It's OK to be vague.

You don't even have to
have your characters yet.

We certainly didn't.

It's not going to
be fully formed now.

But as you can
see, that does kind

of capture the essence
and spirit of the show,

despite having very few details.

So good to start broad.

Very simple.

Baby steps.

So now we've got
our laptops out.

We're going to show you
how to take that big idea

and write it into a
digestible short paragraph

that you can send
to your friends.

You can send to your
agent, whatever you want.

In order to do this, we're
going to use a made up idea.

We talked about doing a
fake Dustin Steve spinoff.

This is not a real
thing, Netflix.

This is a fake--

this is a fake idea.

It's super undercooked.

It's underdeveloped.

Dustin and Steve,
of course, are two

of the characters from "Stranger
Things" who you may know.

They work really great
as kind of buddies.

They're always often
paired together,

so they're fun to write.

So we thought, hey, if
we're gonna write a spin off

involving "Stranger
Things" characters,

why not write it involving
Steve and Dustin?

So--

Here we go.

I guess we'll do it.

All right.

And we-- I guess we've
cheated a little bit.

We don't have a ton
of time, so we've

kind of pre come up with
a little bit-- a few ideas

as it relates to Steve and
Dustin, the deepfake Steve

and Dustin spinoff.

ROSS DUFFER: So we
do everything in--

MATT DUFFER: In Google Docs.

ROSS DUFFER: For us,
writing together,

it's a great way for us
to collaborate and just be

both writing at the same time.

Again, this is gonna completely
depend on your process.

So--

When I'd normally
be doing this,

I would probably
have headphones on.

I would be listening to music,
but it feels, like, pretty

antisocial and uncinematic.

So I'm gonna--

I'm not gonna have headphones
on while I'm doing this.

So what we were
thinking about with Steve

and Dustin is when we
were talking about what

that spinoff could be, one
thing that we haven't really

had time to explore in the
show is where is Dustin's dad,

and that was sort
of the question

that we're talking about
a couple of days ago.

They go, well, that could be
interesting as a starting off

point to explore in terms
of putting-- getting them

on an adventure.

So, you know, our initial
thought is, okay, what if--

and this is about as far
as it's been developed--

what if Dustin--

Dustin, after the
events of season three,

say, what if he's feeling
emotional about what happened

and he wants to go and visit his
dad before high school starts.

So visit his dad who doesn't
live in Hawkins, so--

and, of course, Steve
has just lost his job

because the mall and
Scoops Ahoy burned down,

and so he convinces
Steve to go with them.

That's sort of the starting
off point for the idea.

And Dustin doesn't have--

doesn't have a car.

He doesn't have a
car, right, right.

Who else is he gonna go to?

Well, he's gonna go to Steve,
so, you know, it works.

And I think what we also
like about the dad in terms

of this made up idea is that
the dad can give us sort

of an emotional core to this.

I think it's
something emotional,

Dustin dealing with his
issues with his dad,

and, of course, Steve
also while his dad

isn't a character
in the show, he also

has issues with his dad.

So I think it's something that
we could use this storyline

to sort explore those
issues and give it

in an emotional core, which
I think could be, you know,

interesting.

But, again, you know,
this is very basic.

What Ross said there is almost
all you need in terms of--

Yeah, I don't know.

The emotion of the idea.

I don't know what
their arc is or anything,

but I know that there
are something there

that could certainly be--

But you'll see as
Ross is kind of talking,

I'm just sort of jotting down
what he's talking about--

just-- it's fine.

It's gonna be really
sketchy, there's

going to be typos, dashes,
whatever, so this is

Dustin Steve spinoff.

Dustin's dad, where is he?

It's Dustin's goal.

Dustin's goal is
to find his dad.

ROSS DUFFER: Well,
that's his initial--

MATT DUFFER: Initial goal.

Yeah.

ROSS DUFFER: Initial goal.

That's obviously-- we're not
going to just write a road trip

movie with Dustin
and Steve although I

suppose that could be fun in
a "Little Miss Sunshine" way.

But this is in the world
of "Stranger Things"--

MATT DUFFER: This
is not the drive--

ROSS DUFFER: So this
is not the drive.

That's just sort of what
kicks off the journey,

but it's not the drive.

The drive would
really kick in when

they get to the dad's house.

Now it-- would be
not-- the story would

kind of end if the dad
was just there, right.

So let's say where's-- where
do we say the dad lives?

Does he live in Arizona,
or is it somewhere else?

Yeah, let's see he--
is it-- yeah, he should--

Let's say he's Arizona.

Now dad isn't there, right.

He can't be there.

He can't be there.

The story would end.

Dad is not in Arizona.

So the goal right here, this
initial thing is still--

it's still-- they're
still in-- there's

an obstacle here instantly.

Where is the dad?

Where is the dad?

Where is the dad?

Well, maybe what we
were talking about

is that the dad is like Dustin.

He's quirky.

He goes off on his adventures
unknown because why

is the dad not here.

Why is the dad not with his son?

Well, maybe the dad
has his own issues,

and he's more interested in
going off on his own adventures

than he is in raising his son.

And maybe that's why
he left his family.

So there.

Now we've got--

Well, it's-- we can think
about a little bit like,

you know, "Last Crusade."

Sure.

Indy's dad.

How I get inspirations, yes.

Right, yes.

Yeah.

So, yes, Indy's dad is a sort
of a good inspiration that he

wasn't--

Sean Connery was not there
for Harrison Ford growing up.

So what we were
thinking about is

when we were talking about
this, it felt a little

like we wanted to get
away from Hawkins, which

means it probably
shouldn't involve anything

with the upside down,
and we certainly

don't want to get 11 involved.

This really what we wanted this
spinoff to be for this class

is really just focused
on Steve and Dustin.

So we were talking
about what kind of story

would be fun to see
these two characters

that we love so much on.

Of course, thinking
back on the movie--

the movies we love.

One of them is--

and you've seen the inspiration
in "Stranger Things"

if you've watched the show
which is "The Goonies."

So "Goonies" is a big
inspiration that was as a kid,

we would just watch it over
and over and over again.

It's one of our favorite
movies growing up.

So we thought it would
be fun to do something

in that vein in the vein
of basically treasure.

What if-- what if--

what if-- what if that's
what the dad is looking

at, just in the same way that
Indy's dad is going looking

for some artifact that is of
great importance, in that case,

the Holy Grail.

What if in this case,
the dad is looking

for some sort of treasure,
something he's been obsessed

about his whole life.

So I did a quick little
Google, and this came up

which is Superstition
Mountains, which is in Arizona.

There's something called
Lost Dutchman State Park,

and apparently that
there is something

called Lost Dutchman's mine.

These are all great
names by the way.

So there's this lost
Dutchman's mine,

and there's a guy
named Adolf Ruth who's

an amateur explorer and
treasure hunter in the '30s.

And he went off looking for
this mine, and in this mine

apparently is a lot of treasure.

Everyone's looked for it.

They can't find it.

But what if, you know,
what if Dustin's dad thinks

he found this mine.

What if--

MATT DUFFER: Or Dustin's dad
followed in Adolf's footsteps.

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah, exactly,
in search of this mine.

MATT DUFFER: Right.

ROSS DUFFER: So that's
where Steve and Dustin, who

knows how they
find out that this

is maybe where the dad went.

We don't need to
know that right now.

MATT DUFFER: They
find a treasure map.

ROSS DUFFER: Maybe they
don't have the map yet.

Maybe they just
heard from a neighbor

that he's obsessed
with this, whatever.

It gives them--

Yeah, a treasure map's
probably too obvious.

It's too obvious.

We're writing a series here.

We're writing a
series, not a movie.

So you'd probably
be something that

would lead to something that
would lead to the treasure map.

Again, we don't have
to figure that out.

So I think Dustin's
goal is to find the dad.

I think maybe this
is the drive--

I think it is the drive.

Is to find the dad,
not the treasure.

[INAUDIBLE]

Steve's goal is to find
the dad and the treasure

because Steve--

ROSS DUFFER: Well, he lost
his job at Scoops Ahoy.

No, but he--

I mean, Steve's gonna
be into the treasure.

Like, Steve's gonna
want the treasure.

Like, that's why he's going
to be motivated to stay here

and journey into this
mine even though he's

gonna be concerned about
the dangers involved.

He's gonna want the
treasure at the end.

So that's gonna be-- actually
it becomes Steve's main thing,

main goal.

And what I like
about this, again,

this is all a little silly,
but what I do like about it

is that we've got the
emotional core of Dustin

going to get his dad.

And we've also got the fun
element of the treasure,

and we know that it's
danger because Adolf died.

We don't know how.

His dad has probably
been missing.

Right.

MATT DUFFER: Yeah,
Dustin's dad is missing.

ROSS DUFFER: He's
missing and he's

been missing for a
period of time that

makes us nervous about him.

I mean, he's a
kooky guy, right.

He probably-- like,
I feel like he goes--

you know, he goes off, they
lose track of them all the time,

so Dustin's mom may know about
this, may not mention him,

and may just not have been
in touch with him at all.

So he could really be
miss-- properly missing.

I think it needs to be long
enough that Dustin's concerned.

Dustin is really
worried about his dad,

and there's some humor here
in that Steve is mostly

excited about the treasure.

I can already see those
scenes playing out

in sort of a fun way.

I think that's how Dustin
could convince Steve to stay.

Now there's nothing
in my googling

that says there's
anything super--

supernatural happening
in Superstition Mountain,

but it is called
Superstition Mountain.

And why haven't we
found this mine before?

Why can no one find it?

I feel like this gives an excuse
to hint at that there could

be something supernatural
here in the same way

that it is an Indiana
Jones, which we can hint at.

Hint at-- oh my God,
you can see what

a bad, messy writer we are.

I've misspelled
things left and right.

Hint at something supernatural.

Okay.

What is the supernatural?

I don't know.

I don't know if we
have to know right now.

Right.

Something is in the
mine-- something maybe--

maybe there's-- maybe
there's a rumor of something

in the mines.

ROSS DUFFER: Remember we
didn't have the demogorgon

or anything when we wrote that
"Stranger Things" paragraph.

MATT DUFFER:
Something not human.

ROSS DUFFER: Something not
human living in the mine

and protecting it.

Right?

Well.

Potentially?

Right.

Could be.

Is that too much?

No, I mean, the story--

It's starting-- it's
starting to sound like smog,

like a dragon.

Okay, we don't want that.

MATT DUFFER: Maybe--
I don't know.

Maybe it has something
to do with the treasure.

Maybe it doesn't.

I don't think we have
to figure that out.

ROSS DUFFER: But
there's some reason

why no one in 100 year-- or
90 years has found this place.

There's got to be something.

MATT DUFFER: I'm just got to
put down any ideas I have.

It's important to just
jot down a lot of ideas.

Maybe Dustin's dad isn't the
only person who's gone missing.

ROSS DUFFER: He definitely
isn't, not maybe.

MATT DUFFER: Gone
missing-- many have gone--

have gone missing
in these mines.

ROSS DUFFER: Leading
with Adolf Ruth.

No, but, I mean, that's
ancient history, right.

People-- people more recent.

Maybe people have gone
missing in these mines--

And one last idea before
we start writing this--

and Dustin's dad,
this is important,

isn't the only one
looking for this treasure.

So now we've got some bad guys.

MATT DUFFER: Right.

ROSS DUFFER: Some bad guys
are also looking for treasure.

MATT DUFFER: Like bad--

bad treasure hunters.

ROSS DUFFER: Because as
we mentioned earlier,

what you're going to need
is, besides the drive,

now we've sort of
got two drives,

but they're all
leading-- they're both

leading to the same
destination, which is helpful.

But we also have to start
throwing obstacles in.

So they don't know where
to go, obstacle one,

and then we're
setting up the idea

that there are going to be
villains here both human

and maybe not so human.

So now we need to write
this out so it's coherent.

Right?

Right.

So we have a lot of ideas.

I'm just gonna start
roughing this out.

We'll clean it up as we go.

After the events
of season three,

Dustin decides to set
out and find his--

find his dad who's
living in Arizona.

He recruits friend--

Why is he--

sorry, but why is he
suddenly setting out?

I don't know why.

I mean, I was thinking it
was something emotional

like he wants to find him.

I mean-- I mean, I'm
saying does he need to have--

does he need here something as
specific as his dad is missing?

It could be so maybe like.

That maybe, like,
Claudia, the mom

gets a phone call or something.

Like I feel like we need
something to prompt it aside

from, hey, I miss my dad.

I wanna go see my dad.

Yeah, something that sets
him off on his journey.

Could it be Cerebro related?

So Dustin has this like radio--

Yes, it could be.

Cerebro radio.

So he could intercept something,
a strange message on Cerebro.

Yeah.

MATT DUFFER: That's-- why I
like that it's a little bit more

specific to Dustin
intercepts a strange--

I don't want to use strange--

After the events
of season three,

Dustin intercepts an
odd message on Cerebro,

which a message he believes--

he believes is, in fact,
from a communication

from his estranged father.

He [INAUDIBLE]---- he recruits his
friend Steve and Steve's car,

of course, to assist
him in his journey.

However, when they arrive--

Wait, we haven't
said he was going--

I haven't set it--

I haven't set up Arizona.

Oay.

Strange father, he decides--

I'm just say he decides
he has-- he wants to go--

Who'll assist him in his--

He wants to go
check on his dad.

His dad-- his dad who lived--

MATT DUFFER: You know what, I'm
going to change odd to cryptic.

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah.

[INAUDIBLE] with his
dad in this messages.

Turns out Dustin's dad,
not unlike his son,

loves a good adventure.

Cryptic message on Cerebro,
a message he believes

is, in fact, a communication
from his estranged father.

Dustin decides he wants to check
on his dad who lives close--

it's okay, whatever.

This is the key.

I mean, this is going to
be a little messy at first.

However, when they
arrive in Arizona,

they discover that
Dustin's dad is missing--

ROSS DUFFER: To find the long
lost treasure of the Lost

Dutchman's Mine hidden.

Okay.

Steve and Dustin now set off to
both find Dustin's dad as well

as this-- as long as this--

as well-- as well
as the treasure.

Treasure.

However, they aren't
the only ones.

However, they
aren't the only ones

looking for this treasure--

And they soon discover
there's a reason--

a reason that no
one has discovered

this treasure in over--

has discovered this
mine in over 300 years.

There's something lurking
there, lurking in the dark.

I think this last
sentence we could do looking

for the treasure, and they
soon find themselves embroiled

in a-- can we get a
sentence like that?

Adventure involving--
involving thieves.

OK.

Wait, let me read it.

I'm going to read it through.

Hold on.

Okay, here we go.

Steve and Dustin
spinoff limited series.

Okay, it does not have a title.

Steve and Dustin-- you can just
say the Lost Dutchman's Mine.

I mean--

MATT DUFFER: Yeah, that
sounds like a fun--

it's kind of got
that Indiana Jones--

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah.

Again, it's a little silly but--

Doesn't sound great.

No.

Okay, okay, Steve and Dustin
and the Lost Dutchman's Mine.

Okay, here we go.

Let's see how this is sounding.

So first of all, you
can see how we start out

with a bunch of sketchy ideas.

They don't all make
it into the paragraph

because we want to keep
it short and tight.

But so some of these
ideas move over

into our brainstorming
in blue sky phase, which

we'll get into later.

Okay, here we go.

You want to read out
see how it sounds?

Yeah, I can read it.

Okay, here we go.

After the events
of season three,

Dustin intercepts a
cryptic message on Cerebro,

a message he
believes is, in fact,

a communication from
his estranged father.

That sounds pretty good.

Okay.

A concerned Dustin decides
to check on his dad who

lives in Arizona.

He recruits his
good friend Steve

and Steve's car, of course,
to assist him in his journey.

However, when Dustin and
Steve arrive in Arizona,

they discover that
Dustin's dad is missing.

How about they find that
Dustin's dad is missing and has

been missing for--

and has been missing
for many years?

Many months.

Many months.

Let's see.

[INTERPOSING VOICES]

He'd be dead.

What is he doing in the--

That's a good.

That's a great
question for the show.

All right, fine.

You can say years.

Has been, in fact--
and has, in fact--

That feels aggressive.

Missing for many months.

I'm going to say--

I'm going to say months.

We'll talk-- we'll
debate this off camera.

Turns out that-- turns
out that Dustin's dad,

very much like his son, loves
a good adventure and is set off

to find the lost--

missing-- the Lost
Dutchman's Mine--

ROSS DUFFER: The rumored at
home of a great treasure.

MATT DUFFER: Steve-- Dustin
and Steve now set off to find

Dustin's dad as
well as the gold--

ROSS DUFFER: As well
as the treasure.

However, they ain't the
only ones looking for this.

And they soon find
themselves embroiled

in an adventure involving
thieves, treasure hunters,

and something else, something
lurking in the dark,

something not quite human.

Again, what I would do if
we had a little more time

is I would go
through and clean up.

We've got a few repetitive
words and things like this,

but, again, these
paragraphs really--

they're for yourself,
and, of course,

you can send them to close
friends, or in our case,

we sent our Montauk
paragraph out to our agent.

It's really just to see
how is this feeling.

What's working about this?

What's not working about this?

And that's really
the point of this,

and is this something that
it's getting you excited.

So we're leaving
this as unfinished.

It's not perfect, but
it's good to walk away

from a paragraph
like this and look

at it again with fresh eyes.

So normally I would leave or I
would take a break for the day,

sleep, look at it in the
morning, continue to hone it.

Yeah, you fall
in love with this,

this is what I want to write,
this doesn't see spinoff,

this is the one, then we
would start developing it.

What is that in the mine?

You know, who are these
guys that are also

looking for the treasure?

That's all the stuff
will get into later.

And, again, Steve and
Dustin are already

fully developed characters.

In your version of this,
you would just say,

hey, a high school
or a middle schooler

gets a cryptic message
from his estranged father,

and then you build
it from there.

You don't need to go
into-- you don't even

need names necessarily.

MATT DUFFER: Again,
for the Montauk one,

we just talked about friends,
family, and teachers.

ROSS DUFFER: That's it.

That's all we had,
and that's Okay.

But a lot of that is going
to come in the next stage

once you have this big idea.

So now I think
what we'd like you

to do is start to come
up with some ideas.

So throw out a bunch of ideas,
pick your favorite three

to five ideas and write
out a paragraph for them

much like the paragraph we
wrote for our imaginary Steve

and Dustin spinoff.

And then remember if you get
stuck, don't be frustrated.

Be generous to yourself.

Be patient.

It should be fun.

It should be a fun process.

And the other thing I would
say that we talked about

is just reminding you,
which is that maybe you

come up with eight ideas, a
couple of them are really bad.

That's Okay.

Try putting them together.

Maybe that'll open up-- maybe
combining these two will

bring something new to life.

So that's always a
fun exercise to do.

We love writing.

It is a fun process.

Yes, it is frustrating at times.

It gets scary at times.

You get stuck.

It doesn't feel like you're ever
going to get unstuck sometimes.

But what we try to do with this
class is show you our process,

because this is the
process that we found,

for us, made the writing
process as smooth as possible.

And as fun as possible.

And as fun as possible.

And of course, there
are bumps along the way.

We've written outlines
that don't work.

We've written scripts
that don't work.

But that's okay.

We at least now know
when stuff isn't working.

We know how to go about
solving those issues.

That makes it a lot less
stressful and a lot more--

less pressure on us.

And that allows us to
enjoy it a lot more.

In fact, I would say there
was a point in our life--

there was, like, a two to four
years part of our lives where

writing was really
painful and not fun.

It felt like torture.

Pulling teeth.

Yeah, it felt
like pulling teeth.

If it's feeling
like torture to you,

you may be doing
something wrong.

And so that's what we realized.

It was like, it's not that
we didn't enjoy writing.

It was that we were approaching
it in the wrong way.

So if it is feeling
like that to you,

that doesn't mean
you're not meant to be

a writer or anything like that.

It just means that your
process should probably change.

Hopefully, our process doesn't
make it feel like torture.

But if it's not
working for you, you

will find, hopefully, your
own process that works.

Before we get into you doing
anything writing related,

I think we have
to talk about one

of the least fun parts
of the process, which

is writing habits.

But I cannot tell you
how many people we know,

how many people, aspiring
writers or whatever,

this is the downfall in that.

It's so easy to just
not write anything.

It's so easy to--

Procrastinate.

--procrastinate, to delay,
to stare at a blank page,

to surf the internet.

And before you know it,
you've lost two years,

and you have 10 pages.

So it is important
to develop something

of a routine for yourself.

It's very, very
difficult to focus.

I'll tell you a little
bit how Ross and I do it

and how we focus.

We certainly don't stay focused
throughout the entire day.

But we do our very best.

We keep each other in check.

That helps.

But if you don't have a writing
partner, that's fine, too.

We like to start really
early in the morning.

Like, we think--
if I'm not going

right away, if my brain isn't
locked into writing mode,

whatever that is, early morning,
then I'm going to fall apart.

I'm not going to be able
to start mid-afternoon.

I mean, sometimes
we'll have stuff

now with "Stranger
Things" where we're

trying to start writing
at, like, 2:00 PM.

And it's always a disaster.

So we've got to get
started right away

with that cup of coffee.

And then we give ourselves
a long time to write.

Like, we write from
roughly, like, 9:00,

and then we stop
around 6:00 or 7:00,

which is a really,
really long writing day.

To me, it makes the
day less stressful

because I feel like
I have a lot of time.

I have a lot of room
to make mistakes.

And then if my mind wanders,
it's not the end of the world.

And there are other writers--

I always think about
Stephen King, right?

I know we all look up to him.

He's one of the most prolific
writers in the world.

I think he has a 2,000
words a day goal.

And as soon as he accomplishes
that, he's done for the day.

He writes 2,000
words, he's done.

Sometimes he's done by, like,
11:30 AM, sometimes he's

done by 2:00 PM, whenever
he hits that goal.

And that really
works for him, right?

And then he goes and
watches, like, baseball games

or whatever it is.

So everybody has
something very different.

Some people like the
morning to themselves

without having to
think about writing.

So I think the important
thing is figuring out

what works for you, but setting
goals for yourself, setting up

a routine for yourself.

Try to stay off the internet.

We like working
out of our houses.

Some people prefer being in
a public space like a coffee

shop, right, because that
forces them to focus.

They find it's less distracting.

I find it more distracting.

Whatever it is for you works.

Maybe you have a day
job, and you can't do it.

Well, maybe two hours every
night when you come home,

and you just sit
down and you do it.

And you just find whatever
time you have and go,

this is when I'm going to write.

And you spend that
time actually writing.

And you try to focus.

You could have the best
big idea in the world,

but if you don't
have the discipline

to sit down and actually
spend the time to write it,

it's just going to sit there.

Another downfall we
see is that people just

get frustrated.

I mean, they are working, and
they are putting in the hours,

but then they just get lost.

A script just seems broken.

The script isn't working.

And you just kind
of throw it away.

It's so easy to get,
like, lost in the woods

is kind of what we call it.

It just feels--
like, 60 pages, 100,

if you're doing a show,
120 pages, roughly,

if you're doing a movie.

It doesn't seem like a lot.

But it's very easy
to get lost in there,

lose sight of the
bigger picture.

And I think that happens
more often than not

to writers, every writer.

It certainly happened to us
when we were starting out.

I mean, we toiled around
with a script forever.

I mean, we got really lost.

And nothing ever happened.

It just ended up
wasting a lot of time.

What we're going to try to do
with this class is kind of walk

you through kind of a
step-by-step process

that will hopefully
allow you to avoid that,

avoid that sense of
being completely lost.

When we wrote "Stranger
Things," or "Montauk,"

as it was known back
then, we wrote it on spec.

And what spec means,
if you don't know,

is that we developed
it on our own.

There was no one attached.

There was no guarantee of
it selling or much less

getting made.

We were just doing it
completely on our own, which

is very freeing because we're
the only opinions at this stage

that really matter.

It's scary, because
you don't know

if you're putting in all this
time and it won't go anywhere.

So that's the trade-off.

But we enjoy just
developing stuff on our own.

And so that's what we
were doing with this.

The other danger, though,
of working on spec

is if you're getting
paid to write something,

generally you're going
to be given deadlines

by that company.

They're going to expect
things at a certain date.

If you're writing it
on spec, well, there

are no real deadlines unless you
create deadlines for yourself.

And I think that
that can occasionally

be something that helps people.

Now, I'd be lying to you if
I said that Matt and I were

great at hitting deadlines.

We create deadlines for
ourselves all the time.

We rarely make them.

But I do think it is
important to set goalposts

for yourself and
go, okay, well, I'm

going to work on this outline
for the next two weeks.

And then I'm hoping that
by Saturday, July 13,

I'm going to be moving
on into the script stage.

Now, what this does is it
gives you some structure.

And I think that
that can be helpful

if you're writing it on spec.

The danger of it being, you
may be moving onto a stage

before you're ready.

And that's why when I say Matt
and I blow past our deadlines

all the time, we do
not want to do that.

We have done that in the past,
where we jump in the script

or we jump into fleshing
out an outline too early.

And then what
happens is you end up

wasting additional
weeks continuing

to work on something where
you've just gone too far ahead.

And like Matt's saying,
you get lost in the woods,

and you have to go
backwards in time,

throw all that out,
and start from scratch.

And that is a much
bigger time waster.

Just make sure not to
move on to the next stage

until you're feeling
very confident,

because, as Matt's saying,
it's not like we just

wasted a few weeks on projects.

We wasted at least
a year on projects

where the issue was actually all
the way back to this big idea.

It was missing some key element.

And maybe we knew it in our
gut, but we needed to move on.

We felt we needed to move
on to those next stages.

And we just went too early.

So we'd advise you
not to do that.

No, it's good to create
sort of artificial deadlines

for yourself.

And sometimes, the
real world will hit you

with a deadline of its own.

So in the case of
"Hidden," I mean,

that happened because we
were extremely low on money

at that point.

We were about to run out.

We had about a month?

A month and a half.

A month and a half in order
to get this script written.

And it felt like we kind
of had a gun to our heads,

that we had to get
this script written.

We had to write a script.

We had to sell it.

It felt kind of like
an impossible task.

But it gave us this
sort of urgency

and adrenaline that we didn't
have in some of the earlier

scripts that we had written.

And that really helped us.

The same if you end up working
for a studio or whatever,

you're going to have these
scary deadlines that you're

going to have to hit.

A little bit of urgency and
a little bit of a deadline

is good.

Don't-- I think something we
did early on is we just indulged

too much.

We spent too long on stuff.

It's good-- a little
bit of speed is good.

A little bit of speed.

A little bit of speed is good.

One thing that helps us
as we're working on ideas

is that we work with each other,
so we have a writing partner.

So we're able to bounce
ideas off of one another.

We're very honest
with each other.

We also grew up,
obviously, together,

so we've watched all the
same movies and the TV shows.

We have the same references.

We have mostly the same
things that we love.

So that helps.

We have, obviously,
quite the shorthand.

But I think it can
be helpful if you

have a sounding board, someone
else that you can bounce ideas

off of.

You go to someone
that you trust,

whether it's a friend or
family or someone you've

met in school.

And you can go, hey,
I have some ideas,

and I want to see how
you respond to them.

I think that that's
also something that can

work as part of your process.

One thing that helps Ross and
I in terms of staying focused

is that we have the
other one to check.

So if suddenly I'm on the
internet, Ross will go, Matt,

what are you doing?

I don't see you on my
Google document with me.

Like, where are you?

Focus back in.

So it does help to
have a writing partner.

We know most people
don't have a twin,

so we're fortunate in the
sense that we have twins.

Oftentimes, we know
people who find--

who do have a
writing partner who

find someone who shares
their sensibilities who

they enjoy working with.

But we also have a lot of
friends who write on their own,

and they don't
have that partner.

So to sort of refocus them, I
think if you're working alone,

then that means it's
more important than ever

that you have a routine and
structure and deadlines, all

of the stuff that
we talked about,

because you don't have someone
else checking in with you.

Maybe you're going to
say, hey, in two weeks,

I'm going to send this outline
to my friend for feedback.

And maybe they'll check
in with you in two weeks

and go, hey, how's
that outline coming?

That helps.

So there are ways around it.

But whatever you do, and
this is very personal,

but come up with a
way to give yourself

a little bit of structure.

If you are working
with a writing partner,

you may both have
your own strengths.

For Matt and I,
for instance, I'm

generally trying to
keep pushing us forward.

We got to get this done.

We got to write this outline.

We got to get to this script.

Right.

Matt is very good at
going, well, wait a minute,

this isn't figured out now.

It's a little bit like
checks and balances.

So I think we sort of
push and pull each other,

and we find a good balance there
where we are making progress.

We're not getting too
lost in the woods.

But at the same time,
we're making sure

that everything is up to par.

MATT (VOICEOVER): So in
this next assignment,

find someone you
trust who can serve

as your sounding
board for your ideas

or to help keep you
accountable to your deadlines.

So now you've got
some ideas right now.

It's time to pick
your favorite idea.

So hopefully this is the
idea that if you wake up,

you're feeling really good
about it, you're excited,

you can't wait to
write, you can't

wait to get into
final draft and start

making-- turning it into a
script, but like hold up,

hold up, hold up.

So what-- we're actually
going to do something

more fun than that, more
fun than writing the script.

So the first thing we do
and this is in a lot of ways

the most fun part of
the process for us,

because you've got
the idea down, right?

That's so hard.

You got an idea, which
is really, really hard

and really taxing.

But once you have the
idea, the fun part

is to explore that idea.

So this is something
we call blue-skying,

we say we're going
to blue-sky our idea.

And basically that just means
no pressure brainstorming.

And remember, you could
start blue-skying,

you can start
brainstorming an idea,

and it's not
getting you excited.

So you can always go back.

I mean, you're never forced
to stick with an idea.

I mean, we do that all the time.

And one way you know
it's a good idea

is that it starts to
unlock a lot of doors.

So as you're thinking
about the idea,

as you're brainstorming
it, suddenly you

go, oh, what about this?

What about that?

It's exciting.

It's just like, oh, wow, this is
a really fun sandbox to play in

and there's so much, almost
too much, to do here.

That was certainly the case
with "Stranger Things."

We had a psychic girl.

We had monsters.

We had a police chief.

We had another dimension.

We're like--

Oh my god, oh
my god, oh my god,

we just had all this
stuff, and we just wanted--

we started to spit
all these ideas.

But I think the
most important thing

is to trust yourself and
trust what you're feeling,

and just you want to
feel that passion,

you want to feel the excitement.

If you've got that, great.

We should start blue-skying.

So usually when Ross
and I are blue-skying,

what we do is we get
together, we hit on music,

we open up our computers,
and then we just start to bat

around ideas.

So we throw out, it's almost
stream of consciousness.

So it's just, we just throw
out any and every idea

that we have.

We jot it all down.

It's super sketchy,
very, very messy.

A lot of the ideas we throw out.

Will never see the light of day.

No one will ever read them.

This is like a very personal
part of the process that's

just for yourself,
but it's always

good to have too many ideas.

You can always pull
from them later.

You'll be surprised.

I think as we stepped through
our brainstorming for "Stranger

Things" how some ideas
we had very early on

became something we used in
season two or season three.

So it's always good to have
a huge grab bag of ideas

and just start to throw
any and everything out.

And the reason we
like, even though it

is stream of consciousness,
why we like writing it down

is because then you can go
back, then you sleep on it,

you come back the next day.

You read through sort of your
thought process and these ideas

and go, well, this here,
this little line here,

that's really sticking out as a
really-- something really cool.

Maybe we should build on
that and go from there.

It's nice to just
write it down and keep

a document of your process.

We typically spend, I don't
know, anywhere from a week

to two weeks on this.

I think that was the case
for "Stranger Things."

I mean, we spent about two
weeks throwing out ideas.

I like giving yourself
a lot of time on this,

because then again, it
lowers the pressure.

And that if you have a day
that's not particularly

productive and you don't
come up with a big idea,

you don't start
getting frustrated.

You're like, okay, well,
there's always tomorrow.

You're going to have
days, good days,

and you're going to have
bad days, and that's okay.

Don't stress out.

It's important to be patient
and generous with yourself.

So give yourself a little
bit of time for this.

Just get it all out there.

Vomit it all out.

And I think it's all
helpful, good and bad.

So we're going to show
you our blue-sky document

for "Montauk," which eventually
became "Stranger Things,"

right?

Ross and I write it down
as we're thinking it.

So you're seeing really
what was in our heads

as we were writing it down.

No one one's ever
seen this before.

But you'll really get a sense
of how we generated the idea

and how it evolved.

In terms of the kind of things
you're growing to blue-sky,

you're going to be
thinking about everything.

You're going to be thinking
about character, setting,

world, mythology, drive,
story, literally everything.

Which sounds
overwhelming, but it's not

because it's fun
because you can bounce

from thinking about characters
to thinking about setting

to thinking about story.

I mean--

You get stuck on one
thing, you move to the next.

And it's just-- you're
going to see this document,

it's a little chaotic,
but we're going

to go through and show
you each of those things

that we were talking
about and how

it led to this bigger piece.

Something that's not going
to be in this document,

but it is something
you can think about,

you saw sort of
doing it on the fly,

and I don't think we
nailed it, which is title,

and that's something
else you can blue-sky.

I mean, for "Stranger
Things," Montauk came to us

instantly just because we--

it's a cool word.

There's something a
little spooky about it.

Now when it came to
changing the title due to,

we weren't able to shoot
in Montauk due to cost,

so we had to move it to Atlanta.

So it had to change.

And we didn't want to
just do call it, Hawkins.

We didn't want to just do
it as a make-believe town

as the title.

It's not-- wasn't
very exciting to us.

So we just came up
with a bunch of ideas.

You know we had The Keep.

We had Indigo, which
was going to be the name

of the government program.

And of course, amidst that
we had "Stranger Things."

And I think ultimately
it sort of boiled

down to Indigo and
Stranger Things.

Indigo sounds really
weird now, but that

was sort of the runner-up.

And one fun thing we did,
and this is if you do

want to take a beat away
from your blue-skying,

we sort of mocked up
each title in Photoshop

in a font that we
thought was sort

of what we wanted to actually
do for the show, that got

across the vibe of the show.

Well, I was always
Team Stranger Things,

and it looked good.

It looked like a
Stephen King book.

Maybe because it just made
me think of needful things.

It may have not been
any more difficult

or complicated than that,
but for whatever reason,

that's why we liked it.

And that's why the show is
now called "Stranger Things."

Let's look at that.

Actually look at the doc again.

You can do title in that.

That's one of many elements.

So let's go through and sort
of step through this little--

it's going to be a little
chaotic looking at the doc,

but this was exactly what
we did back in the day.

And you're going to see
our thought process.

MATT DUFFER: So we'll
start off with characters.

The first thing we wrote
is, "Sam Rockwell, opposite

of McConaughy,
lives on a beach."

So this is Hopper that
we're writing about.

Again, I don't have
to specify that we're

talking about Hopper.

This is just for us, as long
as we understand what we're

writing, it doesn't matter.

Also Sam Rockwell means a
lot of things to me and Ross.

We know what type of
character we're describing

when we say Sam Rockwell.

This is not for anybody else.

It's just for us.

So Sam Rockwell is shorthand
for like, a book of things.

Well, and I think the
most important thing,

and I think this is
opposite of McConaughy,

in this "True Detective"
was coming out of the time,

but I think that
by Sam Rockwell,

we meant that he's not your
typical Hollywood hero.

This isn't-- we didn't say,
if we wrote Tom Cruise lives

on a beach, that gives us--

Very different.

Very different, very
different vibes, you know.

Dwayne Johnson lives on a beach.

Very different vibe.

And then we start talking
a little bit about plot,

you'll see.

"They've opened a portal, you
don't understand, snatchers."

So, again, snatchers
is not a good name.

That eventually becomes
demogorgons, right?

But that's the origin of
the demogorgons right there.

"People are going
missing, you understand,

that's the third person that's
gone missing, they've drowned,

they're saying they drowned
in the lake or the ocean."

Remember this used to be
set right next to the ocean.

"You don't believe
that, do you?"

So this is the idea that
its government lies, right?

We even ask ourselves
questions in this.

We write down our questions.

"How do we keep
these kids involved?"

And then we say,
"maybe the sheriff

isn't the major character."

So it's interesting that
we actually started it out,

and that's probably
why we started out

writing about Sam
Rockwell, is we

had Hopper was going to
be the main character.

Well, if you remember
it started with prisoners.

So, again, that's
the-- you know,

you've got this police
character as the lead.

But I think we made a
mental note to, wait,

can we steer this
more towards the kids.

How do we keep
these kids involved?

We didn't know the
answer, and that's okay.

You can ask yourself,
like Matt's saying,

ask yourself questions.

We don't know how
this is going to work,

but we know we want to
keep the kids involved

in the investigation of
their missing friend.

But then we say,
"kids are dying,

getting yanked into
another dimension,

his bike is just sitting there,
where the hell did he go?"

So we're starting to introduce
some imagery that actually

did end up in the final
show, and actually

on the poster for the show.

"What happened to him.

Everybody's looking
for this kid."

And then we reintroduce
the sheriff.

So that's huge right
there, that early

brainstorming right there.

We started to develop
some of the core--

Core elements.

Core elements of the plot.

What that drive is.

Another thing that we
get into in this document

is worldbuilding, right?

So we go into, "are the two
worlds bleeding into our world.

The wormhole is expanding.

You see, you need to be able
to get into the other world.

There are openings.

Mouths to this world."

"Perhaps one of the kids
accidentally goes into it.

It draws you in.

With what?

Something trance-like, enticing.

Dancing particles, almost
like moths, fluttering around.

The wormhole is expanding.

This universe is
bleeding into our own."

What I think is
interesting about this

is some of these ideas don't
make it into season one,

but some of them make
it into later seasons.

We do have a mouth to
another world, which

does make it into season one.

MATT DUFFER: We end
up calling it the rip.

What didn't make it
as the trance-like thing

or the dancing particles.

Dancing particles was
really the prototype

for what would become the
Mind Flayer in season two.

We started to get
overloaded with ideas,

so you'll see as we
move into outline,

that's just an idea that just
didn't make it into that pilot

script.

But again, no ideas
are bad ideas.

This all came around.

The fact that this world
is bleeding into our own,

that also became a core
element of season two.

It didn't really play
a role in season one.

But again, we're just
throwing out these ideas.

And this is day one
of brainstorming.

And you can see how much
we're already coming up with.

I'm going to
skip a little bit,

but I'm going to go
into what is probably

the most important five minutes
of brainstorming in our lives.

And you'll see it all as we
were writing out in real time,

back in, what was this?

Looked like April 14.

We said, "there's a world
underneath this world.

Two worlds."

So that's the upside
down, obviously.

"This world is
encroaching into ours."

We're repeating something we've
already said, but that's okay.

"Increased military presence.

They've unleashed this thing.

It's not going to stop.

Maybe it's a kid with powers.

Is that weird.

Or maybe a girl of sorts.

Certainly can take
inspiration from that.

Then we have this kid who can't
connect with anyone, who begins

to connect with this girl.

She kisses him.

Very ET-like."

Who--

And that's talking
about Mike now.

Mike.

"Very ET-like.

Who are you?

I was experimented on.

Explodes his head."

So that didn't-- that didn't
make it in, but that could be

cool.

"This place, it's
going to open up.

Don't you get it?

Something more innocent.

The government wants her.

They're tracking her
down," et cetera.

So, and then--

How do we get to
this other place?

I can show you.

Like the "Matrix."

So this right here is
the creation of Eleven.

So this is when we
came up with Eleven.

So I don't know if this is an
hour worth of brainstorming

or less, but we
started with a show

about a sheriff investigating
a missing kid to introducing

the idea of the Upside Down and
a girl with psionic abilities,

and the whole ET aspect of
the show, which is, I think,

really essential to
why it was successful,

was generated right here.

And we're even questioning,
is this a good idea?

Is that weird?

And obviously, we
got excited about it

because we kept writing.

When I think that's
the thing we talked about

too in the big idea
phase, it's like,

does this open a lot of doors?

And so suddenly we're
going, as you can see,

one door opens-- the girl
suddenly opened the door to,

wait a minute, now she
can have a relationship

with our protagonist
boy character.

Well, that's interesting.

So that opens up
a door as, wait,

now, she can show
him where Will is.

So earlier a couple
paragraphs before we said,

how do we get the kids
involved in this investigation?

We just got our
answer right here.

And then you can tell we got
excited about this character

because we keep
writing about her.

"She's not from
another dimension."

So there we're clarifying she's
not from this Upside Down.

"She's one of them.

They captured her.

I was born here," meaning
in the laboratory.

"We can do her backstory.

Telepathy, powers,
experimentation.

No one understands it.

And we have to overlay that with
the everyday evil, suburbia,

depression."

Okay, so there we're starting
to move from just very rapidly

from character and
story into themes.

So we're going-- we're
talking about what can we do

thematically with this story.

Again, this is why it's a
little bit chaotic and all

over the place.

That's good and fine.

So we're saying,
"but it's an evil.

We have to overlay that with
the everyday evil, suburbia,

depression, evil.

How perfect everything is,
but everything is not perfect.

We put on a face for the public.

The inner darkness.

That's what it's about."

So suddenly we're going, okay,
what is the theme of this show?

For some people,
their process is,

that's the starting
kernel of their idea.

That's not how Matt and I work.

What we do is we're coming up
with that story with characters

that resonate with us
and with the drive.

And through that, as we're
developing it, we go, okay,

that's--

there's something
more about this story

that I think can be
impactful for people.

So, in this case, it's sort of
Matt and I grew up in suburbia.

So it's going, okay,
maybe there's--

everything seems perfect,
but beneath it, there's more.

And I think that got
us excited about, okay,

this story can be more.

It's not just about
finding a kidnapped kid.

It's not just about
kids fighting monsters.

There's something a little
more resonant about it.

So, again, that can be
something that you come up

with when you're
discovering your big idea,

or like us, it can come through
the process of blue-skying it.

But hopefully your story starts
to take on more resonance

as you're developing it.

Now the one thing that
you're not going to see,

if you sort of zoom in and read
through this document or pause

the screen, the one thing
you're not going to see

is a lot of us talking
about location or setting.

And that's really because
part of the big idea

was this is set in Montauk.

We didn't really
feel the need that we

needed to go into a lot of
detail blue-skying that.

We knew what it was.

I actually think
it is a good idea

to write out some ideas
about the location

because that can
lead to story ideas.

Like, even then, we
didn't do this here,

but I think it would
have been a good idea

to start talking about what are
some cool locations we could

explore within the world of,
say, Montauk, or eventually

Hawkins, right?

You can talk about the arcade.

You can talk about the
movie theater, the mall.

You could talk about
the kids' basement.

The Fish 'N Fry.

And start thinking about
what are cool, like,

mini settings within
the larger setting,

and that might actually lead
to more ideas and cool ideas.

So it's something that we
didn't do as much back then,

but we do it now when
we're working on an idea.

We definitely try to
think about setting.

Yes.

As you're starting to throw
out all of these ideas, what's

going to have started as, like,
a really, really rough sketch

is going to start to get
filled in a little bit more.

So, hopefully, what was
really blurry at first

is going to start to slowly
come more and more into focus,

and you're going to get a
sense of what this show is.

Like, we're starting to
see "Stranger Things," not

completely, but a little bit.

It's like our vision is
getting a little bit better.

But you see how much
of "Stranger Things"

came out in the
blue-sky process.

That the big idea--

and I think a lot of people
put too much pressure

on every stage, and
it is a process.

You've got to take it
a little bit at a time.

So this-- Eleven wasn't
in the big idea, which

is hard to think about now.

It's hard to think
about "Stranger Things"

without Eleven.

She wasn't in that paragraph.

She wasn't in the paragraph.

But now we've got demogorgons,
they're called snatchers.

We've got Eleven, she
doesn't have a name yet,

but we know there's a
girl with psychic powers.

We know that she's
going to bond and have

sort of an innocent relationship
with our young boy lead.

We've got a broken sheriff,
who we're calling Sam Rockwell.

We've got the kid's mom.

We talk about her in here.

It's a lot of what the
show's going to become.

As you're working
on this, you're

going to start to explore
the tone of your piece.

You're going to
start to figure out

what is the mood of the piece.

And that really is
what-- what is tone,

when people ask what is tone.

I mean, really it is a feeling.

Like, what feeling
does it evoke in you?

What mood does it evoke?

And "Stranger
Things," of course,

has many different tones.

We knew it was going to
have these horror elements,

but see, as we're discovering
this character of Eleven,

the tone is shifting
a little bit.

So it's becoming a little
less of a cop supernatural

procedural, which honestly
sounds a little boring,

and it's becoming-- it's
getting a little bit more

of that Spielberg vibe into it.

We're moving a little bit away
from some of the darker Stephen

King themes, which were
in the original paragraph,

and infusing them
with a little bit more

of that Spielberg vibe.

The kids are becoming
a bigger part of it.

So the tone is evolving.

And I remember, it's not
written down in this document,

but it's something
that we talked about

and why we were
excited about the idea,

is that it would
allow us to explore

a lot of different tones.

It's why we had basically
three generations.

We had adults, we had
teens, and we had kids.

And each of them was
going to be able to allow

us to explore a different tone.

It was something that
excited us about TV.

It's like, oh, we can have
three different types of movies,

four different types
of movies, and kind of

weave them together.

And you can see in
the document even,

we do mention certain
movies, whether it's

the "Matrix" or a big
one when we came up

with the character
of Eleven was "ET."

When we write "ET," it brings
up a lot of memories for us

and it also brings
a specific tone,

which is a tone that
you don't see a lot.

And we got excited
about, hey, I haven't

seen this a lot in
general and I certainly

don't remember the
last time I've seen it

on TV, which is your
telling something

from the point of view of kids.

But I remember being
scared by it as a kid.

Elliott got in danger.

He got really sick.

I was worried for ET.

They find ET and he's dying.

The stakes always felt real.

And I think that was
something we realized

early on as we
were brainstorming,

this is, we can have
fun with these kids,

but at the heart of it, we've
got this missing kid and we

got real danger.

And we wanted, even though
the kids were young,

we wanted to put
them in real danger

and we wanted the audience
to feel worried for them.

And I think that was an
important part of the evolution

of "Stranger Things."

But I think the
bigger point here

is, you don't have to
have the tone down.

Let it-- you can discover it, it
can change, and it can evolve.

And you can even
see in this stuff

that we were reading to
you that it was actually

quite a bit more violent and
dark than it ended up being.

So we had Eleven
exploding heads.

So we do have her
killing agents,

but we don't have the
Cronenberg scanners thing

where heads are exploding.

I mean, in our
heads, initially this

was going to be extremely gory.

So that ended up
kind of going away.

So be patient,
allow it to evolve,

and be open to the tone
shifting and evolving

as you continue to
blue-sky and brainstorm.

There are a lot of tones
going within "Stranger Things,"

but the tone that we are
hoping holds all this together

and holds all these
different threads

and different story
strands together

is a sense of sincerity.

That's the stories that matter
and I fell in love with,

whether it was "ET," or "The
Goonies," or any of these films

that made us want to make
films in the first place.

If there's a joke, it's out
of a result of the situation,

but the stakes are still real,
and the friendships are still

real, and we're not
making light of anything.

We wanted to put a
lot of heart into it.

It really is about friendships,
and it's about family,

and not to be
embarrassed by that.

To actually embrace that.

It's not-- right.

It's not-- it's not ironic.

We never wanted to
be ironic, or meta,

or winking at the audience,
or anything like that.

So even though you have
all these disparate tones,

in terms of horror, and comedy,
and romance, and all of that,

you have something that kind
of ties it all together.

So it doesn't feel like
a mishmash of things.

It all coheres.

So now what you're going
to do is you're going to take

your big idea and you're
going to blue-sky it,

which means you're going
to come up, like we did,

a bunch of ideas, almost stream
of consciousness that this idea

gives you.

Hopefully it's going
to open a lot of doors.

And so you're going to just keep
opening those doors wherever

they take you.

Whether it's about setting,
or character, or plot,

or mythology.

Just whatever doors
open, just follow

the stream of consciousness and
just get it all down on paper.

Whatever this thing is
it's not traveling far.

Will's body, it was a fake.

I don't think my parents
ever loved each other.

[GUNSHOT]

It's not safe.

OK so hopefully, if you've
done some blue skying,

you've come up with
some various characters

just how like we did with 11
with our Sheriff Sam Rockwell

character.

So now that you've
got all these,

another thing that
we often do is

we start listing
all the characters,

the ones that we think are
going to make the show.

But again, even though we are
going in a little more detail

now by making a list
of our characters,

we want to start really broad.

We don't want to get lost in
the woods of too many details.

So we're going to show you right
now like the initial list we

made of characters
that we thought

could be integral to this show.

So as you see in
this document, we've

got kid who has taken, Tommy.

That it becomes well.

So some of these
names did not stick.

And again, I think
the reason that

is obviously the first
character we wrote down.

Why we know for a
fact that character

is going to make the
show because the show is

about the drive of the show
is about a missing kid, right?

Sometimes it's nice to
throw some names out just

to give you something
to hook onto.

We've got best friend Joel.

Joel obviously will
become Mike later on,

nerd friend, Neil, who
eventually becomes Lucas.

Yeah.

We've got overweight friend,
Dustin, Joel's parents,

we don't go into any
detail about them.

Joyce and Guy, I
mean, his name is Guy.

That's how vague
this is right now.

We've got Tommy's
parents, Tommy being-

Is Will.

So Joyce, we
obviously switched.

Again, all of these names
are on Wendy, Arthur.

Sheriff, we went into a lot
of detail there, Sheriff's

pregnant wife, she obviously
didn't make the show.

Not all these characters
are going to come up

with are going to make it.

As you continue
to develop, you're

going to see who's
going to make it

in who's essential to
the plot and who's not.

We've got Sheriff's daughter.

That character obviously
didn't make it.

We've got escapee,
which was eventually

becomes 11, the
escapee from the lab.

So again, baby steps,
we're starting very small.

We're just going these are some
of the characters who might

make it in terms of the names.

That can be a fun detour.

You're hitting a wall.

You're getting sort of
tired of blue skying in it.

One thing we like to
go is we'll just go

into like Social Security site.

And we'll punch in,
we'll figure out

do the quick little
math in terms of what

when these kids would be born.

So in the case of this, it
was like sometime in the '70s.

And we would just type in.

And then you can choose.

You can go top 1,000
names from 1972.

And you're going to get
a list starting with most

common to least common names.

And you can start to look
through and make sure.

First of all, you make sure
the names are period correct.

And also you can start to
assign names to your characters.

Now, obviously the names we
assigned here did not stick.

But it can start to
give you a little hook

into these characters.

Yeah, it's funny.

Again how oh, you
just seem like a Matt.

You just seem like
a Trevor, a Lee.

A name does kind of
give you some sense,

or you might have an impression
of someone what someone

is like with a specific name.

It's a small thing,
but actually does help

provide very early
little bits of definition

as you're starting
with the character.

In shorthand if you're
working with a writing partner

to talk about it.

Hey, so Joel is
going to go here.

And then Joel is
going to go here.

Yeah, exactly.

That's it's just a
shorthand for you to do.

You're just trying
to come up with who

are some characters that might
populate this story-line.

In terms of deciding
which characters are really

going to make it,
which characters

are going to become
essential to the show,

Ross touched on this
a little bit before.

You've got to start with
the most obvious ones.

In this case, we
obviously the show

does not exist without
the kid who goes missing.

Then you work from there.

We knew he was going
to have friends who are

going to be looking for him.

So we know those friends
are going to exist

and be a part of the show.

We know there's going
to be a Sheriff a part

of the show who's looking
for the missing kid.

We know the kid's
friends, the missing kid

is going to have a family.

We know he's going to
have a mother who's going

to be a central character.

So you just start working there.

And the story
itself will dictate

which characters are essential.

Once we started to
think these characters are

going to make it, we go
into a little more detail.

We've got Joyce
Byers, Will's mom.

OK, she's now switched we.

We got the name.

We got the name
right this time.

And even the last
name, actually,

once you're confident that a
character is going to survive

and you're going to exist
within your show, it's fun

to give them a last name.

It starts to again,
just help give them

an identity in your head.

So you started really
broad, and now we're

going into just a
little more detail.

We're saying Will's mom, single,
husband left a long time ago.

That's all, he's a deadbeat.

Drug addict we say maybe she
has an older daughter, ellipses.

And then we go into the
older daughter character,

Vicki Byers, very
pretty, beginning

of trouble at a young age,
16, in with a bad group,

a group of older kids who
pick on our hero kids.

We then say Billy Flanagan,
high school bully,

Vickie's boyfriend, leader
of a group of friends,

trouble makes fun of
our kids, dangerous,

gets a knife, et cetera,
the evil side of our town.

Now, the reason I'm
sharing these two with you

is because elements of
these characters made

into the show, these
specific characters

did not make it into season one.

Vickie Byers a version
of that became Nancy.

So we didn't give Joyce
a daughter anymore.

And parts of Vickie
ended up moving over

to Nancy in that
she's the nice girl,

but she gets sort of drawn
into a slightly darker

side with Steve.

The Billy Flanagan character,
Billy ends up playing a role,

a Billy character
very similar to this

ends up playing a
role in season two.

And we keep that
name, actually.

We do keep that name
but some of this of Steve

is softened a bit.

But even in the
original pilot, he

is a little scarier, a
little more dangerous, more

of a bully.

So some of these elements from
this Billy Flanagan character

became Steve.

So Vicki and Billy were
like very early prototypes

for who would become, what
would become Nancy and Steve.

And again, just like with blue
sky, just like your big idea,

and none of this is it's all
useful to have all of this.

And obviously, we felt pretty
confident at this stage

that these characters
would make it because we

started fleshing them out.

They obviously didn't.

That's OK.

You're in the story is
going to keep evolving,

and stuff's going to
get pushed to the side.

And that's just
part of the process.

So again, you've
started out really broad.

You have a really rough list
of the characters, you think.

And once you're more
confident, which

ones are going to
make it into the show,

you should start
fleshing them out.

You should start
to zoom in on them.

Explore that character.

I think as you explore
that character,

it'll illuminate
more whether or not

they're worth
having in the show,

whether or not they're
interesting enough

to be a major
character in your show.

So one of the characters, we
are fairly confident early on.

I mean, you never know.

But we were pretty confident
the Sheriff character ultimately

would become Chief
Hopper, that Hopper

was going to be a
part of the show

that we were going
to have the Sheriff.

And so we started to
really flesh him out.

So you can actually
see, we started

to sketch him out a
little bit beyond remember

he started out just Sam
Rockwell not McConaughey

on a beach [INAUDIBLE].

So then we took that, and
now we've suggested maybe--

Had a Sheriff
which is not any more

detailed than Sam Rockwell.

And now, we're like
OK, let's actually

give this guy a little
more of a backstory,

a little bit of a dramatic hat.

So and some of this,
yeah OK let's see.

It's interesting.

So we said maybe it was
a family man in New York.

His son died, car accident.

Now he's fucked up, left
the city to come here,

pictures of family
and house, lives

in a shack near the beach,
this was Montauk, still,

drinks too much,
smokes too much,

over a course of series falls
for Joyce who is also broken,

comes to terms with his past
as he solves her son's murder.

So actually, that's
all spot on, really.

In terms of Hopper,
obviously, we switched his son

and made that a daughter,
but the rest of it is true.

So what we were
doing with Hopper,

and I remember actually
as we were working on

like really early.

This was probably even pre
the Sam Rockwell epiphany,

is that he was really
going to be more modeled

after Chief Brody
in Jaws, that he

was going to be kind of a
family man Sheriff, and then.

That's why we the
wife in the all of that.

But then looking at how this
was going to be a TV show,

we wanted to do something
a little bit more

with the Sheriff character.

We also didn't
want to copy Jaws.

We want to do
something different.

And so we wanted
to give him more

of an interesting
complex backstory.

And that's where
we, and so suddenly,

he no longer has
a pregnant wife.

He has a wife who he's divorced
from or estranged from.

And he had, they had a
daughter together who died.

And that, what we
liked about that is it

gave us real emotional
stakes in terms

of this, what's happening now
in the present day in terms

of the investigation, in terms
of the search for the missing

boy, in search of Will.

He's lost a child,
so suddenly, it

takes on more meaning
to him, the search

for the search for Will.

That, of course, leads naturally
to a connection with Joyce,

right?

Because she's lost her son.

So they have both lost
a child, and perhaps he

thinks in bringing
her, saving her child,

he can kind of sort
of redeem himself.

So suddenly, we're like
OK that's a character.

That's a fully fleshed
out are and we've

got an anchor so
we sort of we're

starting to understand
who Hopper is.

So we also do this with other
characters, but not all of them

are that fleshed out.

That came to us, and obviously,
this all mostly stuck.

Other characters let's look at
like our description of Lucas,

nerd dungeon master,
dresses in black,

glasses, LOTR, that's Lord
of the Rings, fantasy books,

video games, unkempt.

That's nothing really like
the Lucas that is in the show

at all.

Dustin, we describe
as diminutive.

I mean, there's not much else
we're talking about Dustin.

This is not-- these are not
very evolved characters, not

in the same way that Hopper is.

And that's OK, because
sometimes this stuff

is going to come very
quickly like hopper clearly

in a quick little brainstorming
session as is documented here.

We got his whole backstory,
and we got his arc.

That is not going to be the
case of every character,

and you don't want
to beat yourself up

because that's not the case.

It's OK.

So some of this is
not going to be right,

but you've got to throw it out.

And the stuff that stick is
sticks is going to stick.

And stuff that doesn't
is just going to go away.

Again, it's nobody's
going to read this.

It doesn't matter.

Yeah.

When you're working on these
characters and developing it,

one good thing to
do that, we do a lot

is we mind our own
lives, whether it's

childhood or the life we're
living now and looking

at our friends or
personalities that we in trying

to be inspired by that.

And because you really want
these characters to feel real.

And so I think that
can really help flesh

a character out is just
looking at your own life.

I think Joyce
initially started out

a lot more like our mom.

I think that was the
initial sort of prototype

is we were basing her a
little bit more on our mom.

And some of the friends
were based on Dustin

and stuff were based on
our friends growing up,

little kernels of them, right?

So that helps.

Sometimes it helps to give
them a physical characteristic,

I mean, anything that
will help you see them,

start to think
about what they're

interested in, what they like.

And specific things can help.

So if you look at this example
for Mike, so we said he's shy.

We said birthmark
along his neck, face,

kids make fun of him
for it, so that's,

we're starting to get actually
a little bit more specific.

Whether it's physical,
or it could be a stutter,

it could be a million
different things.

But sometimes that
can be a shorthand

for the audience to
start to understand

who this character is.

And then as we
moved into the show,

we realized we didn't
need that to define Mike.

And I would also say
in terms of the shy,

we originally basing him a
lot on sort of us we were

pretty shy kids growing up.

And so I think it was
a shorthand for us

to write that character.

Then we see Finn Wolfhard's
audition, it evolves.

Finn is not a shy kid.

That character evolves.

And I think it
evolves into something

that was more interesting,
more specific to the show.

But it's OK to start
with your life.

And you can always let it
evolve either in the script

or pass the script once you
actually move into production.

So just as your story is going
to have sort of go from A to B,

Will's missing we
got to find Will.

So you've got a drive, and
you're going to have obstacles

along the way, right?

You're going from one
point to another point.

And again, there are
going to be a lot

of little points between Will
missing and finding Will.

Otherwise, you
don't have a show.

So there's going to be a
lot of stuff in between.

But it's important to know
where you're going with it.

And it's the same
with the characters.

Mike starts off as shy,
not very confident.

He falls in love, comes of age.

It's a very broad character arc,
but it is the character arc.

Hopper is broken due to
the death of his daughter.

By finding Will, he's able to
find some sort of redemption

for himself.

And he's able to
find himself again.

That is a very simple arc.

And I think again, you're going
to want to pick the characters.

You can't give everyone
this incredible arc.

We have a ton of side
characters in Stranger Things

that don't have a big arc.

The arcs aren't going to
feel satisfying or earn

because you're trying to give
everyone this amazing arc.

But at that point,
what ends up happening is

or we find happening
is you end up

shortchanging the characters
who you want to have this.

You have the great
arc plan for them.

You're just going to end up
shortchanging those characters.

So it's important to focus
on the ones who are really

essential in terms of arcing.

And the other characters are
going to be great characters.

They just might
not have this sort

of grand emotional
arc in the same way

that Hopper does or
Joyce or whatever.

And of the kids, we
gave Mike the biggest arc

in terms of him coming of age.

But for Lucas and Dustin, their
arc is even much simpler than

Mike's.

We don't have time for them to
go through that full journey

that Mike does in season one.

They fall apart.

Their friendship breaks apart,
and they're able to mend it.

I mean, Dustin kind of
starts like nerdy and awesome

and he kind of is a nerdy
and awesome at the end

even though he's still
confident in who he is.

So you know, he
doesn't have a big arc,

but he's a really
great character.

But you're going to
want to pick and choose

which of those characters you
want to give full arcs to.

So you're going to have
these arcs or some of them

right now where
you're A to B, we

know where Hopper
is going to end up.

We know where we
want Joyce to go.

We know where we were on
Lucas and Dustin to go.

We know where we want Mike
and 11 to go, just roughly, A

to B. We don't know the
journey, but we know roughly

where we want them
to start and end up.

So what's interesting about
writing a pilot script is

you're just doing the A. Their
journey is just beginning,

you can't get them to be.

So for instance,
Hopper, right, we set up

that he's popping Tuinal.

But we wait until the
end of that pilot script

to even reveal that
he had had a family

and that his daughter had died.

And we use that as oh wait,
there's more to this character

than I thought.

But we don't even explore it.

We just tell you,
the audience that

at the very end of the episode.

And then we know, and
anyone reading the script

is going to know.

Oh, this is an important
part of this character,

and I know they're going
to continue to explore it.

But don't race it.

Really, we're just setting
up who these people, are

and we're starting
them on their journey.

But that arc for
Mike for instance,

he meets 11 at the
ending of the pilot.

He's not coming of age yet.

He's just meeting
the person that's

going to change his life.

But we don't know how she's
going to change his life.

We don't know that she's
going to change his life.

We don't know that.

So we're just starting
them off on their journey.

So I think sometimes, and
this has happened with us.

We want to race along too far.

Lucas and Dustin are best
friends still in the pilot.

We haven't even hinted at
any discord between them.

We're going to wait.

I think it is a big
mistake that some people make

in terms of, and we
make it all the time.

We have to keep reminding
ourselves simplify, simplify,

simplify.

Slow down.

And slow down.

You get very
excited, and you try

to cram way too much into
a single script, just,

and everyone's always
they're worried

about they want to get across.

They want to get across that
this is a great character.

They want to get across yeah,
you want to tell everything,

all your ideas about Hopper.

Slow down.

You have time.

It gets going to
get overwhelming,

and the script is
not going to work,

so just a little bit at a time.

Simplicity is your friend.

Yeah, this is just
step one of many steps.

Yeah.

In terms of when we're
developing characters, I mean,

there's a lot of
tricks we can do.

Like we said, we pull
a lot from our lives

and from people we know.

And then there's also
something that's, I don't know,

it's been effective
for us in terms of we

take a character
who is a stereotype,

the jock, the cheerleader.

The nerd.

The nerd or whatever
like Steve whatever

is the perfect example or Nancy
is a good example of something

who starts out of this
stereotype, someone

who the audience
thinks that they know.

The good thing about that
is immediately you go,

OK, I think I know
who this person is.

So they're comfortable.

They're like, OK, this is
the douche bag jock, right?

And then you flip
that on its head.

So you go wait, there's more to
this character than you think.

This is something
that John Hughes who's

a writer director we
obviously look up to a lot

did all the time.

I mean, it's the classic
Breakfast Club thing.

You meet all these characters.

You have each of the
characters assumes

they know the other
character based

on these stereotypes, these
assumptions that they've made.

And then over the
course of the film,

you kind of peel
back those layers,

and you realize there's
a lot more to them.

What it does is it gives
the audience something

to hook onto and go,
OK, that's the nerd.

That's the cheerleader.

That's the douchebag boyfriend.

That's the thing.

But what we like to do is
real life isn't that simple.

No one can be that
easily defined.

But again, just be
careful you don't have

to peel back much in the pilot.

You can just hint at
it or even not at all.

But for Hopper for instance, two
lines at the end of the pilot.

Oh, someone says
he lost his kid.

Thanks for coming out teach.

We really appreciate it.

She died a few years back.

Sorry.

His kid.

That's it.

We know there's more to him.

And we're going to
go into that further,

but we're just hinting that
there's more beneath this

and just like right just a cop.

The other important
thing, right, and I've

touched on this a little bit
is that these characters are

going to surprise you.

So they are kind of
living, breathing things.

I think if you've
created a good character,

and what's going to
happen is and you

have to stay true to
their character, right?

So as we said there's
going to be a drive,

and you're going to throw
obstacles in their path.

And you're going to kind
of a little bit watch

how these characters are going
to overcome that obstacle.

And I think if you're
doing something,

and it's not organic to who
they are as a character,

it's going to be
pretty obvious it's

going to feel really wrong.

And so oftentimes,
this is what's

cool about writing is they
become very real in a sense.

Because you don't
want to manufacture.

You don't want to force them.

They're going to kind of a
little bit do their own thing.

And what's fun about that is
they can often surprise you.

So hopefully in your
blue sky and you've

come up with some
possible characters

that you want that you think you
need to tell the story that you

want to inhabit this world.

So you're going to make a list
now of possible characters.

This is a good something that
we did and you saw us do,

and it can be really helpful.

You're going to make a list.

You can come up with
names if you want.

Just pick three to
five that you think

are necessary to
tell this story.

And then start to
flesh them out.

Don't do that for all the
characters just some of them.

You have an idea that
pops in your head.

Oh here's a good idea for
an arc for this character.

Jot it down.

Or just say this is Lucas.

He's a nerd.

He wears black.

He has glasses.

He gets bullied.

It can be that basic.

But just come up with
that initial list.

And I think it's going to
be really helpful as you

move forward to the
next stage of writing.

Where'd it go?

Where is it?

Will!

OK, so now that you have, you
know, some of your characters

roughed out or some
ideas for the characters,

I think it is worth
thinking about the world

that these characters
are going to inhabit.

So this setting-- we had
talked about this a little bit

in terms of we didn't
do a lot of research

when it came to Montauk
and ultimately Hawkins.

It was small town by
the beach, whatever.

But I think something
that's worth doing

is start talking about
sort out the mini settings

within your bigger
setting, the locations

that your characters
can exist in.

So for "Stranger
Things," for instance,

you got Mike's basement
is a major one.

You got the core--

ROSS DUFFER: The,
gym the junkyard.

MATT DUFFER: The
gym, yeah, junkyard,

and you don't have to
do a "Lord of the Rings"

style or George RR Martin map.

Just write down some
of these locations

that really could offer
a really good setting

for certain scenes.

It's just nice to start--

again, you're not going
to have a super in focus

picture of your
world at this point,

but it's gonna start coming
a little bit more in focus.

So you have some characters now.

Start to think
about that setting

that they're gonna inhabit.

And I remember, like, early
on season three, we came in--

we had a writers room at
this point, and we came in

and the writers had done
this exact exercise,

enlisted a bunch of
possible locations

that would be fun to
explore in season three.

And one of them was a mall.

And we went, well,
that's interesting.

That would be a fun place for
our characters to inhabit.

So it's possible that
one of these locations

ends up becoming more
important to your plot.

So it's always a good exercise.

Season two-- season
two was tunnels.

I remember we're just
like tunnels are cool.

Like--

ROSS DUFFER: It's
our very thing.

MATT DUFFER: Yeah,
we all like tunnels,

and then that does
sort of become

a major part of the season.

And one of my favorite
things in the season

are all those sort of
underground tunnels

that the kids have to
navigate in the finale.

ROSS DUFFER: So,
again, you don't

need to know how it's going
to play a role in your script.

It can just be a good exercise
to start filling out this world

and going, OK, well,
in their journey maybe

they could go here.

Maybe they could go to the mall.

Maybe they could go here.

You're just filling
it out, more detail.

You don't have to
use any of this,

but it's going to be it's
going to be good to have.

Yeah.

There's another version
in terms of your setting

or your world where it's not
based in reality at all, which

is what we had with this other
dimension in "Stranger Things."

Now it wasn't super
developed initially

when we were first coming up
with the idea in the pilot.

You saw some of this rough
idea we had of, like, a mouth

leading to the other
world and all of this,

but one thing that we had
talked about early on is--

and some of this was for
budgetary reasons and also

we were very much
inspired by "Poltergeist."

We didn't see that world where
the little girl was taken.

So it was in-- for
us, it was like, well,

that might be scary if
we never actually see it.

We never see it.

We never go into
the upside down.

We're only hearing it over--

that was-- right?

It was the initial idea.

We're only hearing
it over walkies.

We're only hearing it
over radios or whatnot.

So it was like it
would all be left up

to the imagination
of the viewer.

Yes.

And ultimately that
went away pretty quickly

as we started to write
the show because we

realized this is a show.

This is not a movie.

I'm starting to get antsy.

I want to go in there.

I want to see what's--

I want to see what.

We still limited how
often we went in there,

but we did go in there.

And then that forced
us to evolve it more

and actually explain what
this world would look like,

but when we wrote the pilot--

and you'll see in our outline
and when we actually go

into more detail in the pilot--

we didn't know a whole lot.

It didn't even have a name
in terms of the upside

down wasn't even what
we were calling it.

In the beginning it
was called the nether,

which is more of a placeholder.

The upside down name
came about later

in the writing of
episode five when

Mike is trying to
explain where Will is,

and he flips a D&D board
over and says upside down.

What if this is Hawkins,
and this is where Will is,

the upside down?

And that just sort
of stuck, and that just

became the terminology
to which we've

referred to this other world.

And then practically, we had
to do something very simple

because we kind of do a huge
visual effects extravaganza.

And so that started to effect
what this world would actually

look like.

But, again, you know,
so you can start--

you can start to-- you can be
pretty vague at the beginning

here, and you don't have
to have it all figured out.

If you're telling a show this
is an eight-hour process,

you're not gonna
have all eight hours

fully mapped out at this point.

Well, I think it's important.

So it just-- to
reemphasize something

my brother's saying
there, when we're going in

and we're pitching to Netflix,
we're pitching the show,

and we have the pilot, it's
not called the upside down.

There's no-- there's--

the spores and the vines, I
mean, none of that none of that

is figured out,
and we didn't get

hammered by Netflix about that.

It was like could you
describe the mythology

of this other world.

Like, they don't-- whatever.

They get it is a
scary other dimension.

You're going to figure--

you're going to give
it-- figure it out.

I think something that is
intimidating to a lot of people

and it was certainly
intimidating us

when we started is
you see these products

and they're fully
done, fully formed,

and you just get overwhelmed.

It's like how am I going
to figure all this out.

And the answer is
one step at a time.

Like, so a lot of this stuff
wasn't even figured out

when we sold it to Netflix.

So that should relieve
a lot of pressure

from you to not get overwhelmed
and it's just a little bit

at a time.

And even as you're
writing your script

it's not going to
all be figured out.

So allow--

It's going to be a process.

Even after we had
written the pilot script

and we were meeting
with people, we

did start to get asked
questions about the world,

and that forced us to sit down--

And think about it.

And think about it and talk
about it more and whatnot.

And it'll evolve.

It'll start to evolve,
and then eventually when

we decided we have to go
in there once we started

moving into writing later
scripts for Netflix,

we went, OK, what could
this world look like.

We talked about "Silent Hill."

We talked about "Alien."

We talked about the
aesthetics of it.

Again, that wasn't figured
out on the pilot stage,

and that was-- in our
instance, that was OK.

Again, it's going
to be baby steps.

All of this is
to say it's good

actually to say simple
and vague and you're fine.

It's not-- don't expect it to
be fully formed at this stage.

Don't try to make
it fully formed.

Just stay-- continue
to stay zoomed out.

Similar to the
aesthetic or whatever

of the upside down of this
alternate dimension, we have

this sort of psychic space
that 11 exists in, which was we

called the black
void where she's

in just completely black space.

And, again, you know, that came
about, we realized as we were

writing it, I mean, we had--

we needed a way to
visualize how 11 was

using these psionic abilities.

We wanted to be
kind of in her head

as she was doing
these things and she

was making psychic contact.

It was like, well, how in the
world do we visualize this.

We don't have a bajillion
dollars to do this all CG,

and we didn't want
to do it that way.

We wanted to keep it simple.

And practical.

And we wanted to
do it practical.

There was a movie that
came out "Under the Skin."

Now-- that Jonathan Glazer
made with Scarlett Johansson

where he had this
really cool effect.

It's like a really simple effect
where Scarlett Johansson was

in this strange--

just surrounded
completely by black.

And I think did
maybe he did have--

Some reflection.

Some reflective [INAUDIBLE]
it's been a while.

But what's
interesting-- you know,

it's worth pointing
out a couple of things.

A, that's an idea that came much
later that evolved as you're

working on the script.

It wasn't there when we sold
the script just like the upside

down wasn't really figured out.

It was something that came to us
and also that it was very much

inspired by another
film that we had seen

and a film that is completely
unlike "Stranger Things."

I mean, it's kind of almost
an experimental film.

"Under the Skin" is.

It's a weird film.

So it's good to watch all sorts
of types of movies, not just--

don't just watch-- if
you love Marvel movies,

don't just watch Marvel movies.

Try watch everything
because even if it doesn't--

the tone of "Under the Skin"
is so different than the tone

of "Stranger Things," but it
still had an element in there

that was really helpful for us.

And inspiring and I think and
again it could be a painting.

It could be a photograph
that you love.

It could be in the case of the
spore-like aspect of the upside

down.

It could be a video game.

MATT DUFFER: Yeah,
that came from--

that was inspired
by "Silent Hill."

ROSS DUFFER: Again,
you're going to be looking

at things love and
things that inspire you,

and that's a perfectly
valid thing to do.

For this assignment,
just start making

a simple list of locations
where your characters can exist.

MATT DUFFER: It can be as basic
as a bedroom a gym or tunnels.

Start simple and have fun.

So hopefully as you're
doing your blue skying,

you're working on
your characters,

you're working on
some setting, stuff

is starting to become a
little bit more into focus.

And we did talk about how your
characters go from A to B,

especially your most
important characters.

They have a little
arc from A to B.

What we haven't
talked about as much

is a story arc 'cause your
story arc is also going

to want to go from A to B.

Now if you have a very sort
of simple drive to your story

as we did in "Stranger Things,"
which is Will's missing.

We have to find Will.

So all of our
characters in season one

have the same drive,
which is to find Will.

Hopper had it, the kids
had it, the teens have it,

which and those are sort
of what we talk about as

are each of those is a
different generation,

a generational
storyline, which is

one of the early ideas we had
that we were excited about.

And they all have
the same drive,

which was really
helpful on season one,

and it helped really
unite the season.

So we know that
everyone's going to go

from A, which is Will disappears
and this thing happens

and changes their lives.

B, we're going to
find Will, right.

So we know that, which is great.

But within each of
those storylines,

they're going to have sort
of an individual arc for how

they get from A to B.

And as we were
developing this season--

and it's even in
our pitch to Netflix

where we talk about each
of these generations

and we talk very broadly
about their story arcs

as in they start here on A
and they go to here on B.

We did not have a lot of detail
about that journey from A to B.

We put in a few ideas,
a few ideas we had,

but we didn't put
a lot because what

all we wanted to
communicate-- and all

that was really
important is we knew

where their starting point
was, which is in the pilot,

and where their destination was.

If you don't know
their destination,

it's going to be
challenging because you

don't know what to set up
at their starting point.

So you really do need
to try to, if you can,

have at least a broad sense
of where you want them to go.

You know, obviously so
we have this big story arc,

but one thing we found
when we were blue skying

is that we wanted to have three
groups of characters, right.

We wanted to have kids,
we wanted to have teens,

we want to have adults,
and that each of them

was going to have
their own little mini

arc within the big arc, the
big arc being find Will.

So they would each
be kind of-- they

would each be moving
towards that goal

but in very different ways.

And it was like, since they
all have the same drive,

how do we differentiate
them, right?

Like, it was like how do we--
they all have the same goal.

How is that going to go?

Find Will?

Aren't they just going to
be colliding and overlapping

the whole time?

We're like, OK, so it's
just we thought about as

one big puzzle, and
they're each going

to be solving one big
piece of the puzzle that's

necessary to find Will.

So the kids are solving
one piece of the puzzle,

the adults are solving
one piece of the puzzle,

and the teens are solving
one piece of the puzzle.

And then we thought in
the penultimate episode,

so we were going to
have them all combined.

So we're going to have all
three generations combine.

They're going to share
their information,

they're each going to have
a key piece of information

vital to saving Will,
and then they're

going to use that so join
forces and ultimately save Will.

But if you removed one
storyline, it wouldn't work.

They would be--
they would not have

one key piece of information
that's necessary to save Will.

He would get
eaten by Demogorg.

He would get-- right.

So we found this,
like, to be, like, kind

of a really effective structure
for the show for "Stranger

Things" and as much as it
changes from season to season,

so as different
as two is from one

and season three is from
one, they all kind of

have that core
structure which we have.

We splinter our
groups, and they're all

in their own sort of
adventure or horror story.

But every time they're
learning some essential piece

of the puzzle, they
kind of come together

and put all their
information in their brains

together in order to
solve the greater mystery.

That's a story arc that's very
specific to what we discovered

in our blue sky process.

But I'm hopefully as you're
doing your blue skying,

you're also coming up with
a structure that works

specifically for your story.

One thing that's going
to come up inevitably

if you're developing
a television show

is this idea of, OK, what is.

Is this a one off?

Is this a limited series?

Is it multiple seasons?

Do you need to start
figuring out what

those multiple seasons are?

Our opinion is that can get
really overwhelming if you

start doing that right now.

I think that when we were
developing "Stranger Things"

specifically, it was
going to be a one off.

It was going to be a season one.

We knew we were going to
get asked the question of,

OK, inevitably if this
thing is successful,

you know, what does this
season two look like?

Can this-- does this have
potential to continue?

The answer seemed
pretty obvious.

It came to us-- you know,
wasn't-- it wasn't hard it was.

Like, OK, well, we knew
they were going to find Will

and they were going
to rescue Will

and they were going to
bring him back home.

Will's been-- we don't know
what's happened with Will.

Like, we knew he was
going to be off screen

for the majority of the season,
that he was going to come back.

So we knew if there
were going to be

a continuation of
the story that we're

going to have to focus on Will.

He's been in this
alternate dimension.

We don't know what the
hell happened to him.

We knew that was a story
arc that we would pitch,

and that's honestly
all we pitched

when we went into
Netflix because I

think the key is developing
a really great first season.

I mean, we're all about just
taking it one step at a time

because otherwise
you get overwhelmed.

In our opinion, it's so
hard to just tell a story

and tell a simple story well--

That works.

That works.

Yeah, that just works.

And certainly for
our first script,

that was just the drive.

Can we tell a story
that is very simple

and that works that keeps
the reader turning the pages

and then goes from A to
B. And I think that really

should be the focus right now.

Because guess what, if
you tell a great story,

you're going to find a
way in to tell that sequel

or the second season or
whatever it happens to be,

but really I think
the goal right now

should be to just focus on
let's tell a simple cool story.

It has a goal, and
you achieve that goal

at the end of this story.

As we're talking about
developing an arc-- in fact,

this applies to everything
we've talked about right now,

which is just stay
pretty zoomed out.

It's overwhelming
enough, in my opinion,

to just get a good pilot script.

Don't start thinking about
your seventh season arc.

Don't write a 30-page
world-building mythology book.

Don't write a 20-page back
story for each character.

I mean, listen, you can do that.

I just worry you're never
going to finish your script,

and, again, you're going
to get lost in the--

I really think you're
going to get lost.

It's so easy to get lost.

I know Ross and I are
not the only writers

who this happens to.

We're just-- lose
sight of where you are.

So to us-- and we've
made that mistake.

I mean, I've lost years
of my life doing this.

I'm trying to save you
years, which is just

stay really zoomed out, keep it
really simple in terms of arcs,

in terms of characters,
in terms of setting,

in terms of everything
that we've talked about.

As we go forward with this
class, what we're going to do

is we're still
pretty wide, right,

and then we're going
to just slowly start

to do this until you have--
until you have your pilot

script.

And even from then, it's going
to continue to evolve and get

more specific.

Don't get overwhelmed.

It's like the eye
doctor, you know,

where they're putting
in different lenses,

and it just, like, it's going
to start out really blurry

and it's going to keep
getting more and more focused.

And I think that
sometimes you're

just like why can't I see.

Why is it all blurry?

That's [INAUDIBLE]--

Or you're doing-- like,
I'm doing it's so blurry

and unfocused.

I'm doing something wrong.

It doesn't look like
this finished movie

that I just saw this weekend
or that finished show

that I just saw and I loved.

Why is it not that good?

Why is it not that specific?

My characters aren't that good.

Like, they shouldn't
be at this point.

[INTERPOSING VOICES]

And I think what happens
in a lot of people

then they get frustrated, and
they go, oh, well, whatever.

I can't do this.

And then-- and then they
abandon what they're working on.

It's like--

Or they give up.

They don't want to--
they're like I can't write.

I can't do it.

But, like, we never saw
ourselves as writers,

and I do think
that there's a way

that you can take this
process and you take it slow.

I mean, but even
now, even having

done this for quite some
time now constantly,

we start to see
ourselves get lost,

and we go, oh, whoa,
whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Zoom out, zoom out, zoom out.

We say that all the time
in the writers room, right.

Zoom out, right.

Zoom out.

We take a step
back, take a breath,

and go OK, what are
the big beats here.

What's the A to B?

Is that working because
we're going into details now

in something's missing
from the bigger picture.

So blurry is good right now.

OK, so at this point,
you know a little bit more

about your setting.

Hopefully a little bit
more about your characters,

a little bit more about your
story, and your story arc.

And I think it's
worth taking the time

to sort of write
that down because

right now, your
document, if it looks

anything like our document, it's
going to be kind of messy or--

Chaotic.

Extremely chaotic and messy.

So just-- I think
it's worth-- it's not

going to be super time
consuming, this part

of the process, but just carve
out the ideas that you don't

need any more, focus in on
the ideas that are good,

and just write a clean
organized one page

description of your concept
and your idea including

now some-- a little bit
more detail about characters

and about the setting
that they exist in.

And the antagonist.

I mean, if you just think about
our Steve and Dustin example,

now we haven't had a week
or so to blue sky that,

but if we had,
imagine the details

that we could start to add here.

Who-- who is Dustin's dad?

And where exactly was
he living, and who

are these other thieves that
are going after this treasure?

And what is it actually that
is lurking within those mines?

There were so many things
in that initial paragraph

that we're missing that if we
had had a week of blue skying,

we would have been able to
start to fill in those details.

And then we've got a pitch.

Yeah, right, you have
easy, easy page, easy page.

You might have a
little bit over a page.

Let's fine, a page
and a half, whatever.

But try not to make it too
long because I think it's good

to keep it, again, simple.

Stay wide, stay zoomed out.

So now that you've
got your big idea,

it's time to move into
the outline stage.

I know you're going to have
this feeling, this impulse,

of, like-- you're very excited
about your idea, right?

And you're going to want to
jump immediately into script.

We would really
highly encourage you

to resist that
impulse, because you're

going to run into problems.

That's how you get
lost in the woods.

That's how you lose
sight of where you are.

You can lose years of
your life to this process.

You can have a script that
you just can never finish

and you end up throwing away
because you get frustrated.

It's worth taking the time
to plan and to figure out

exactly where you're going
while you're still zoomed out,

before you dive in.

Before you really zoom in.

So that's why we're big, big
proponents of the outline.

The way we see an outline
is that it's very much--

it's like a bird's eye
view of your script.

Sometimes we look
at a script as,

like, you're building
this house, right?

And so looking at
your last assignment,

you have sort of a
one page foundation.

This is what you're going
to build your house on.

It's like the concrete
on the ground,

and you're going to
build up from there.

So you don't just start
throwing up beams, or walls,

or painting things,
or putting in doors.

What you're going to do, is
you're going to do a blueprint.

You're going to do a drawing.

And that's really the next step.

And so that's what this
outline is going to be for.

It's going to let you see the
big picture before you actually

start spending all the time
in actual construction.

And I think, again,
you're going to have this--

you're going to want to even
rush through this stage.

I think you're going to have--

the instinct is going to be,
let me get through this outline

stage as fast as possible
so I can get to the script,

so I can get to that
beautiful house.

Again, we think you
should resist that.

You should spend longer
on the outline stage

than on the script stage.

At least we do.

We spend probably twice as
long on the outline stage

as we do on the script stage.

Because if the outline
is good and strong,

the script is going to write
itself very, very quickly.

Hitchcock would
come to his first day

on set of a new movie.

He would say, all right,
the picture's over.

Now I just have to go
and put it on film.

And why he's saying that is
because he's done the legwork

prior to getting there.

He's got his storyboards.

He knows the lenses
he's going to use.

He knows when he's going to cut.

He's cast his actors.

Every major choice
has been made.

Now the filming of the
picture is almost a formality.

And we're going to
take that and apply it

to the script stage,
where the outline is

where you put in all the legwork
and you make the choices.

The actual writing of
the script is more just,

you're making it pretty.

You're putting the
final touches on.

But it is like Hitchcock
with his films.

It's more of a formality.

The big decisions have
already been made.

So there are a lot of
different ways to outline.

Ross and I have, over the years,
kind of refined and developed

our own process of outlining.

We do it in two stages.

The first stage is what we
call the scaffolding outline.

It's kind of the
outline of the outline.

It's a rougher, sketchier
version of the outline.

So it's an even more zoomed
out version of an outline.

Say two to three pages.

Just the big, big beats.

But again, just like Matt was
saying with the blueprint, very

easy to adjust and move around.

You're not in the weeds yet.

And you want to focus
on getting that right.

So once you get the
scaffolding outlined

so you're really happy
with it-- you know,

it's like just two or
three pages, right?

Then you move into what we're
calling the final outline

stage.

And that'll be a full, fleshed
out, more detailed outline.

Once you get that
right, then you'll

be ready to go
into script stage.

So if you're scaffolding
outline is two to three pages,

your final outline
should be anywhere

from around 10 to
15 pages if you're

trying to write an
hour long pilot script.

And one thing we
would suggest is just

to really take your time with
this part of the process,

because if you
get this right, we

promise you you're going
to have a good script.

And it's also very
easy and malleable,

like Matt was saying.

This is the time to play around.

You'll see, as we
go through, how

we developed "Stranger
Things," and how

we wrote an outline for
"Stranger Things," how often we

were changing things, moving
things around, and trying out

different scenes.

This is the time to play around.

Before you go in and
start breaking down

each of the storylines,
something that maybe you

thought about in
your blue sky process

is, how are you going
to open this story?

Because generally what
you're going to want to have,

in most cases, is
you're going to want

to have an opening hook.

And an opening hook
is just something

right away, right as you start
your script, that really--

well, it hooks the audience.

It draws them in.

It's something
exciting or mysterious.

Whatever it is, it sort of
gets them into your story

and propels them forward.

If you think about
a famous example,

take "Raiders of the Lost Ark."

You're starting in media res,
meaning the story's already

in the middle of progression.

You don't know where you are.

You're in some sort of jungle.

You learn that this guy
is raiding this tomb that

has all these booby
traps, and there's

a giant rolling
boulder, and there

are other people chasing him.

It's all very exciting.

He escapes on a plane.

There's no way you're
going to stop watching,

or stop turning those pages,
because you're enthralled.

But you don't really
know who this guy is.

You don't know what he's
doing or what his goals are,

and the mystery draws you in.

Then it slows down.

It introduces who Indy is.

We see him at school, we
see what he's teaching.

And then we set up the
main tension, or drive,

of that movie, which is
to find the lost Ark.

But those scenes, post the
beginning, are much slower.

But what the beginning gets you
is, the audience is like, OK,

I'm in.

This is an exciting story.

Now we can slow down,
we can take our time.

We're going to tell you
who this character is.

We're going to set
up our main drive.

Whereas, if you take
that opening hook away,

suddenly I'm not as invested.

I'm just watching a
teacher at school.

I'm not as drawn into the story.

So that's a very elaborate
example of an opening hook.

For "Stranger Things"
it was not so elaborate.

MATT DUFFER: In the case
of "Stranger Things,"

it became Hawkins National Lab.

We see that something
mysterious is going on.

There's alarms.

We see that this lab
is on fire and there's

a scientist burning.

Later in the
shooting script, this

changed to the scientist
being chased and killed

by an offscreen monster.

That's it.

It's actually a very sort of
simple, straightforward opening

hook.

And then we cut to suburbia,
and we see our kids

playing Dungeons and Dragons.

MIKE WHEELER: The Demogorgon!

But what it gives us
is this sense of mystery.

This sense of, oh, something
bad is happening in this town.

And what does it have
to do with these kids

playing this fantasy
game in a basement?

And so suddenly the
audience goes, oh, OK.

This isn't just some
typical coming of age story.

There's something more
sinister going on here.

And it puts you on
edge a little bit,

and it just keeps
the reader turning

the page, which is what's so
important about an opening

hook.

So when we set about writing
the outline for "Montauk,"

or what became
"Stranger Things"--

and this is the next thing
you should do, really--

is break down or figure out,
what are your main storylines?

What main storylines are
you going to be following?

Yes.

In the case of
"Stranger Things,"

we identified those storylines
as Hopper, Joyce, Mike,

and Eleven.

Those were the four
main stories we

were going to be following
in the pilot episode.

And then so what we
basically start doing

is we just break down the
beats of each of those stories.

We're not showing you the
order of the pilot yet.

We're just going,
OK, let's take Hopper

and let's see what are
the beats of his story?

And we just go through that with
each of our main storylines.

Now there's a
good question here,

which is how many
storylines should you have?

And I guess it just
depends on your story.

So we found with
"Stranger Things"

that four is kind
of the sweet spot.

If we start following
more than four storylines,

it starts to get muddled,
because you're away

from a storyline for too long.

Like we have five
storylines, that

means you're away from
Eleven for too long,

and you can't get hooked or
engaged by her storyline,

because you're away
from her for too long.

So four is kind
of our sweet spot.

We try to limit it to that.

But you may also have a
story where you really

have just one major storyline.

I mean, if you look at "Breaking
Bad" for instance, right?

You've got Walter White, who's
a really strong A-storyline.

It's less of an
ensemble show than us.

So if you are "Breaking Bad,"
you're going to have a Walter

White as your A-storyline
most of the time,

and he's going to be
really leading the charge.

And then you're going
to have a subplot or two

that are much less
intricate that you're

sort of weaving throughout.

But what we're going
to talk to you about

is how we do "Stranger Things."

Which, again, in this case
of the pilot, it's really--

while there are additional
little other scenes,

like with the scientists--

Nancy.

And Nancy-- the main
storylines are these four.

And we're going to go
through how we broke down

each of those four storylines.

MATT DUFFER: First we
zero in on Hopper, OK?

And then we figure out, what
are the beats within his story?

What is a story beat?

A story beat is
basically a scene.

Hopper, in the pilot, has five
story beats, or five scenes.

ROSS DUFFER: So you
just go by letters.

Like, A, B, C, D,
E. And the key here

is that each story beat
leads directly to the next.

So the end of story
beat A is setting up

what story beat B is.

Story beat B goes to
C, C to D, D to E.

And hopefully the
most exciting moment

happens on E. So what happens is
then, when these storylines all

go together, all the
big exciting moments--

They build.

--it just gets more
and more intense.

It builds, and builds, and
everyone's most exciting story

beat is at the end
of the episode.

And it has this sort
of crescendoing effect,

and it gives you the climax
to this particular episode.

If you imagine
you're stacking them,

they should be building on one
another, like Ross is saying.

But it should have this
sort of forward momentum.

You should never be
paddling in place.

If scene B is doing
the same thing

as seen A, or scene
D has looped back

and is doing the
same thing as A,

the audience is going
to get impatient.

It's just like you're
treading water.

So you want it to have--

you want it-- this is something
at least Ross and I do-- we

always want it moving forward.

We want it pushing forward.

And we'll show you a
little bit how we did that

with each of our stories.

So, you know, especially--

I mean, this is really a little
bit more specific to pilot,

but beat A, really
you're just going

to be introducing
your character.

That's it.

Just introduce your
character, and that's

the first scene you're going
to be introducing them.

Just seeing them
in their normal life.

This is who this person is.

If they're already
in action, then we're

not going to even understand
who this character is.

So let's just take it nice and
slow and just be, like, hey,

this is Mike Wheeler.

He's a nerdy kid who
likes to play Dungeons

and Dragons with his friends.

That's a beat.

You don't need to
do more than that.

Beat B is usually
the inciting incident.

And the inciting
incident is important.

That's what's going to set
your character in motion.

So something is going to happen.

Something a little bit
out of the ordinary

that's not something that
happens every day to them.

In the case of "Stranger
Things," the inciting incident

for most of all of our
characters, Will goes missing.

They learn a boy
has gone missing.

That's the inciting incident.

It's really what we
talked about earlier, which

is the drive.

The main drive of your storyline
needs to kick in around here.

Something goes wrong, they're
set on some sort of task.

You need to find the lost
Ark, if you're Indiana Jones.

Whatever it is, that's
happening around here.

This is getting the second beat.

So we've hooked the audience,
we've introduced our character,

and now something's happening.

Something's changing
in their life.

Someone's been kidnapped.

There's a murder
that's happened.

Whatever it is in your
story, something's

kicking off your
character's drive.

And now it's like
they have a goal

that they're trying to achieve.

Which, in the case, of
course, of "Stranger Things,"

is Will's gone missing.

We've got to find him.

So the minute Will disappears,
that's our inciting incident,

and it's going to end up
kicking off the drive for all

of our characters.

So in B you've set up
your inciting incident.

You've set up your drive.

You set up, kind of, the main
tension for your character.

The "let's find Will."

So then obviously C is going to
be starting to look for Will.

Your first simple beat
of the search for Will,

usually in the case
of "Stranger Things,"

they're going to take the
most obvious avenue first.

OK, well, where was he last?

He was in the woods.

So you're going to have a scene
of them searching the woods.

Whatever.

And then he's not
going to be there.

Obviously, right?

So they're going
to be, like, oh,

this isn't as simple as we
thought it was going to be.

Beat D, they're going to
have to take a detour,

go a little bit deeper
into their search.

And eventually that's going
to lead to the final beat,

E, which, as Ross said, is going
to be the most exciting beat.

So hopefully it's something
a little bit surprising.

Like the search for Will
leads to something surprising.

In the case of, like,
Mike and the boys,

it's discovering Eleven.

That's a turn.

It's not what they expected.

So they have their drive now.

They're going to try,
initially, with beat C,

do whatever is the most obvious.

And then we're going to throw
an obstacle in their way.

That obvious solution, obviously
doesn't lead them to Will.

But they learn
something else, or find

something else, that then
leads to the next beat.

We throw a new obstacle.

Well, we can't find
Will in this way.

It's not that simple.

But then, like Matt's saying,
something surprising happens.

They find Eleven.

And you go, OK, well--

you're leaving the
audience on this sort

of a bit of a cliffhanger
of, OK, who is this girl?

What does she have to do
with Will's disappearance?

They're intrigued to keep going.

And you just keep
building on it from there.

New obstacles.

What happens next with Eleven?

Well, she clearly
knows something,

but she won't tell our boys.

There's a new obstacle.

So we just keep
throwing obstacles,

and you just keep building
on it, beat, after beat,

after beat.

So the boys, what do
they find in the woods?

They don't find Will,
which is an obstacle.

He's not here.

But they find this mysterious
girl, Eleven, in the woods.

And that really
becomes a cliffhanger

to their story, which
ends our episode.

And it makes the audience want
to find out what happens next.

Who is this girl?

So a cliffhanger-- that's really
what a cliffhanger can do.

We're not giving answers yet.

We're not telling the
audience who this girl is.

We're not even finishing what
that scene was in the woods.

They just spot this girl,
and we just cut out.

And hopefully you're
leaving the audience going,

oh, I want to find
out what happens next.

I want to see how these
boys interact with this girl.

I want to know, does this
girl have the answers

to what happened to Will?

So we cut it off short
before we get the answers

to any of those questions.

So that means the
audience is going

to want to continue
the story and they're

going to want to watch,
hopefully, episode two.

We try to enter
episodes at a point

where the audience is just
going to really want more.

They're going to
want answers to what

happened in the final scene.

I mean, sometimes we do more
of a classic cliffhanger,

where we leave a
character in grave danger.

So we did this in season one.

I think it was
episode five, when

Nancy crossed through a tree.

She's searching for
her lost friend,

and she finds herself trapped
inside the upside down.

Nancy!

MATT DUFFER: And so we
ended it right there.

So obviously people want to
know what happens to Nancy.

Is she going to live or not?

So they click on
the next episode.

The question is, is
Nancy going to survive?

That's just a very
basic, simple question,

but it's going to
drive your audience

to wanting to keep finding out
what happens next in the story.

So now that we've talked
about a cliffhanger,

and we've talked about generally
what these beats should do,

we're going to step you through
what we wrote out for Hopper,

and his beats in the storyline.

And this is taken directly
from our scaffolding outline

for the pilot script
that we wrote in 2014.

Right.

So here it is.

Hopper, story beat A. We say,
"see him at his shitty shack

by the ocean, drinking, et
cetera, pictures of family,

he's clearly fucked up.

See him getting to
work and dealing

with normal, simple
town stuff/deputy."

Again, like we
said before, story

beat A should really be just
introducing this character.

So this is how we decided
it was best to introduce,

Hopper which is just--

we set up his home life.

We hint at the fact that
he used to have a family.

But again, we're not
giving answers to that yet.

But we're just foreshadowing
what's going to come later.

And then we see him
in his normal life.

And the scene
doesn't have to even

have dialogue, which is
the instance of Hopper's

introduction.

We're showing it
purely visually.

So let's look at
story beat B, which is--

so Hopper's next scene is, he
"learns about disappearance."

That's all we wrote.

Again, you can be very simple
here in the scaffolding.

You don't have to figure
out how he learns about it.

You don't have to
figure out that scene.

In fact, don't.

That's what he's
going to be doing.

And that, of course, is
the inciting incident

that we were talking
about earlier.

He learns about a disappearance.

This is something
a little bit out

of the ordinary
that comes his way.

And again, if you
have more ideas,

if you have an idea for
what that scene would be,

sure, jot it down.

But we recommend not getting
lost in the woods here.

He learns about
his disappearance.

You can see how simple
and bare bones that is.

Baby steps.

And then we go into
Hopper story beat

C. We go into just a tiny
bit more detail here.

We say he "investigates
scene of the fallen bike.

No sign of Will anywhere.

Sees strange town car."

So, again, as we
mentioned earlier,

story beat C is he's learned
about the disappearance.

This is Hopper's
inciting incidents.

He now has to find
this boy, right?

And so what is his first thing?

He's going to go look
where he first disappeared.

He finds his bike,
but not much else.

Very simple beat.

And then beat D is him
continuing his investigation.

Ideally C would lead
a little better to D

than we have right now, but
anyway, he goes to look at--

But actually, you know what?

It did work in the
show, because he got--

he goes there,
and Hopper doesn't

think this is very serious.

He thinks Will has
just, like, run off.

Right?

But he goes to the woods,
and he gets a bad feeling.

Something occurs there that
makes him a little bit uneasy.

Why would he just
abandon his bike?

Boys don't just
leave their bikes.

So now he's starting to go
take this a little bit more

seriously.

That takes him back
to Joyce's house.

And so story beat D. So this
is the fourth scene for Hopper.

He "speaks with
Joyce at her house,

finds something strange."

Again, we're really vague here.

We didn't spend
time brainstorming

what it is he finds strange
because that doesn't really

matter right now.

But we're hinting
that maybe there's--

we're going to
introduce something

vaguely supernatural here.

Again, we're just--

Hopper is going from,
oh, this kid's missing,

I better go look for
him, to, OK, this

is starting to escalate
into something serious.

And he's starting
to get concerned.

And then we go
into Hopper's story

beat E. Let's see what we wrote.

"Maybe they begin to sweep
the ocean for a body,

but Sheriff is skeptical.

Sees town car from
earlier again.

Follows it to the radio tower.

The hell is going on in there?

Beginning of a mystery."

Now, if you've seen the show,
and you remember the pilot

episode, a lot of this didn't
actually happen in the pilot.

But this was what we
wrote in the script,

and this is what
we sold to Netflix,

is that we wanted to
get Hopper to the point

where he was starting to sense
that this is somehow connected

to this lab.

And what ended up happening as
we were developing this show,

is we started to
slow some beats down.

For instance, we have Barb get
taken at the end of the pilot

as well.

We were moving things
a little faster

than we needed to once we
really got into the story.

And we started to push some
of that, including this,

to later episodes.

And what we ended
up doing is just--

he is unnerved, as Matt says.

He's getting concerned.

But instead of
doing a story beat

where he's connecting
to the lab already,

we just reveal that his
daughter has passed away.

So we just ended up
revealing character for him,

as opposed to story.

But either way, I think what's
important to take away here

is how simple these
beats start out.

Just a couple lines.

Or in some cases-- "learns
about disappearance--" one line.

Very, very simple beats.

And also, it's
actually surprising

how little time you have.

Not a lot has happened here.

We set up the character, we
get him started on his journey,

he senses something
bad is happening,

we reveal a little bit about
his backstory, that's it.

That's plenty to do
for Hopper's storyline.

We're trying to
tell you generally

what these beach
should be, but you're

story is going to dictate stuff.

We spend a long time, when we
are learning to write, going,

oh!

The inciting incident has
to happen here on page 15!

And you're just going
to end up forcing it.

As long as the story is
flowing, you're going to be OK.

So, again, stay zoomed out, keep
working it, and go from there.

So once you've written
out all the main beats

for your characters,
the next step

is to do what we call a weave.

So this is where we weave
all the storylines together,

because obviously
they're separated out.

We just have Hopper,
separated from Joyce,

separated from Eleven.

So what you want to do is--

This part's fun.

--you want to weave
those stories together.

And so all you're
going to be doing--

roughly the story
will be dictating

which scenes should go first.

But you're going to play around
with scene order as you go,

and just kind of
feel out pacing.

Yeah.

And then you'll
read it through.

Pacing will be off,
you'll reshuffle it,

read it through again.

This is why it's
good that everything

is bare bones and
really simple right now.

It's very easy to just cut,
paste, and move it around.

Like a little shuffle board.

You can look at
what we did here.

We start with Mike, A. Then
Hopper A, then Joyce A. Then

it goes to Mike B, and
Joyce and Hopper B.

And what's interesting
about our--

structurally, the one thing
that's unique, I would say,

about our pilot is then we go,
Eleven A. So we're waiting.

Eleven doesn't really come
in through about halfway

through the story.

Once we've kicked off
everyone else's storylines,

then she comes in.

Then we do Mike C. And
then we go back to Eleven.

Eleven B. And so
what we're doing

is we're just taking
those beats that we've

written for each
character, and we're

putting them together
and making sure

that this whole thing
flows as a story.

I would say normally,
like when we first do it--

say we have four
storylines, right?

It usually goes AAAA, and then
you returned to the first A.

Then you go BBBB.

Then CCCC.

Then DDDD.

EEEE.

And usually it never
breaks down that simply.

And you'll see,
for pacing reasons,

you may not want to order
it exactly like that.

For instance, we held off, as
Ross was saying, on Eleven.

Again it's not a science.

But I would say,
whatever A is, whatever--

A being one of
your main character

storylines, and generally
what you want that to be is--

even on something like
"Stranger Things,"

we're going to have
a storyline that's

weighted a little
more heavily, I

would say, than the
other storylines.

And that's going to be
dependent, episode to episode.

So for this one, we're
starting with the kids.

With Mike and D&D.
That storyline

is weighted just a
little more heavily

than the Joyce and Hopper
and Eleven storylines.

That way we know, when
we go back to that

and their storyline is moving
a little further and faster

than everyone else's, it just
gives it a little bit more

of an engine as
you move forward.

And I think something
else we think about--

again, we initially
start AAAA, BBBB--

but sometimes those
shuffle around.

And the reason is, something
you want to think about--

or we do quite a
bit-- is just want

scenes to juxtapose in energy.

I'm sure you've seen
movies or shows where

it's just action scene
after action scene

after action scene.

And it kind of wears you down,
and you start zoning out,

and you're not excited,
even though the action

in and of itself is exciting.

There's amazing visual
effects, or whatever.

But you just kind
of get worn down.

And then there's
the opposite, where

you have three long
talky scenes in a row,

and you start to fall asleep.

And people are going to change
the channel at that point.

So what we want to do is--

you don't want the
energy of every scene

to be exactly the same.

And that's going to help
you figure out your order.

So you'll read it
through, and you'll go,

oh, I don't know if I want
these two monologues right

next to each other.

But maybe that monologue
will sit really nicely

after that exciting action.

Or maybe after that
monologue, let's

go to a really energetic
action sequence,

or a really scary sequence,
to give the audience a jolt.

I think you can just-- we're
real big advocates of just

kind of feeling it
out at this stage.

You'll sense when it's
starting to get bored.

I mean, one thing that we do,
is we just read it through.

And if my eyes are
starting to glaze a little

bit, or I just
lose focus in terms

of what I'm reading when I'm
reading my own material--

I mean, you'll get bored
by your own material.

Trust me.

You get bored, then you
go, OK, something's wrong.

Let me reshuffle or
rework this a little bit.

When all is said and
done and you've broken down

each of your beats of
your scaffolding outline,

it should look something like
these pages here that we have.

And as you can see
how simple it is--

it's like a page and a half.

Each one has four to five beats.

Again, this isn't a
science, but you can go--

OK, roughly if
each of these beats

is, say, three and
a half pages, we

can then see how
many beats you have.

In this case, it's--

I believe it's around 17.

Yeah it's 17.

It's 17 beats.

So this is the
only math we're ever

going to suggest that
you do sometimes.

Which is, you can go, OK,
17 times 3.5, equals 59.5.

That means you've got about
a 60 page script, which

is about perfect for a pilot.

And again, it is not a science.

It's not going to end up
exactly 59 and a half pages.

Right.

Right.

Some of these beats are
going to end up short.

But some are going to be long.

And hopefully it's going
to be roughly like this.

Because we've certainly
done this exercise, right?

Where we do the
calculation and we're like,

this episode's feeling long?

How is it?

And it's 200 pages, or
something ridiculous.

And we go, whoa!

What are we doing?

And you have to go back
in and dive it down.

So you don't have to
do this calculation.

But sometimes we do it
just to give ourselves

a sense of where we
are and making sure

we don't end up
writing, accidentally,

a 200 page pilot, which
obviously would not

be a good situation.

So now we've
gone through how we

built our scaffolding outline
for "Stranger Things."

I think it's worth
you taking the time

to build a scaffolding outline
for your own script idea.

The way you should
probably start here

is to identify the main
storylines for your episode.

In our case, remember, we
had four major storylines.

And then you want to identify
the beats within each

of those storylines.

So start with one storyline,
and then figure out

all the main beats.

Probably four to five beats.

Four to five.

Like Eleven had three beats.

So fewer beats.

So it could be anywhere
from three to five beats

for each of those storylines.

Once you're happy with that,
then weave them together.

And then read that
weave through.

It's probably not going to
flow perfectly the first time.

Then reorganize it, shuffle
it around, try it again.

Maybe you need
to delete a beat.

Or whatever you need to do, to
try to just get this flow as

good as you can get.

And once you've
done that, you'll

have your scaffolding outline.

So hopefully, now, you have a
scaffolding outline that you're

feeling pretty good about.

That's great.

That's a huge step toward
writing this script.

So the next step,
really, is to take

this scaffolding
outline and you're

gonna start to flesh it out.

And you're gonna create what
we call our final outline.

So what this really does
is you're gonna take those,

say, two pages of a
scaffolding outline

and you're going to turn
it into 10 to 15 pages.

So you're gonna,
basically, start

by going in scene by scene.

And you're gonna start
adding in a lot of details.

You're gonna add description.

You're gonna go into more,
the actual beats of the scene.

You're even gonna write some
basic dialogue, if you want to.

So you're really just starting
to make this thing come alive.

How can I make this great
and as exciting as possible?

So again, one scene at a time.

Hopefully, it ends up being
around 10 to 15 pages.

And this is what you're
gonna take to script.

So what we'll do now is we'll
look at the final outline we

had for "Stranger Things."

You'll notice how messy this is.

Like, excuse the typos, but
we-- we didn't wanna clean it up

for you guys, because we wanted
you to see exactly how it

was when we did it.

This is, again, just
for you at this point.

This is not for anybody else.

So messy is OK.

If you want to clean it up,
your version, that's also fine,

if you-- especially if you're
sharing it with someone else.

This is something
that, until now,

we've never really shared
with anyone but ourselves.

So this was, again, just for us.

And it's still the process
we use to this day.

We then, though, do clean
it up, because we do

have to share it with Netflix.

But this is exactly our
process, even today.

So let's take this what-- let's
go through this first scene,

which is the D&D scene.

And we'll show you, you know,
in the scaffolding outline,

it was, essentially,
kids play D&D. And now,

let's see what it's become.

And we use a lot
of dashes, just--

Lots of dashes--

--just so we don't have to
worry about punctuation while

we're doing this.

"Water sprinklers, hissing,
arcing across a pristine lawn."

And then, we widen to reveal
we're now in suburbia.

"We take a moment to
survey our surroundings.

Fall, leaves blowing, chill
in the air, beautiful.

One-story houses
wind up the street.

Identical, uniform,
hatchback cars

in driveways, power lines--" OK.

We're getting a little
over descriptive.

Here, "Families watching
TV through the windows.

Our attention settles on
a mundane two-story house

tucked away at the end
of the cul-de-sac, lights

glowing within.

The mailbox reads
'The Wheelers.'

Overlay voiceover of a boy
talking about darkness, danger,

and the imminent death
which awaits them."

"We now cut into
this boy's room."

We got "a group of
12-year-old boys play

'Dungeons and Dragons'
cross-legged on the carpeted

floor, Star Wars
posters on walls,

miniatures on the
ground on a gridded map.

We meet our Dungeon
Master, Mike Wheeler.

He has a birthmark along the
side of his face, shaggy hair.

His friends,
Dustin, Will, Lucas,

sit beside him cross-legged.

Dustin is overweight
in a black t-shirt

and wears a Viking helmet."

That didn't make it in.

But when we're trying to
establish he's playing a dwarf.

"Will has a purple robe and wig.

He's a wizard."

He wasn't wearing it, but
he is still the wizard.

MATT DUFFER: Yep.

ROSS DUFFER: "Lucas
wears a plastic chain.

He's playing a knight.

They are riveted by Mike.

He's a hell of a storyteller.

Attacked by evil monsters.

Will is scared. 'Shit, shit,
shit.'" So we're getting

a little basic
dialogue in there.

"Dustin says, 'Don't be a
wuss,' says they should stick

together.

Will takes offense.

I think this is Will
sort of became Lucas.

But yeah, "'I'm not a pussy.

I'm a great wizard.'

They get into an
escalating argument.

'Guys.' They slam
into one another,

knock one another down."

That didn't actually happen.

"Suddenly, bam, bam, bam,
there's knocking on the door.

It's Karen.

She swings open the
door, 'Hey, all right.

That's enough.

You're making a racket.

Holly's just gotta go to bed.

No buts.

Game over.' Mike deflates."

And then, "Mike
follows his mom

past Holly's room,
downstairs, still pleading.

'Come on, mom.

15 more minutes.

'No is no.

It's a school night, too late.'

Behind him, Dustin
and Lucas trail.

And Will and they argue.

'You're such an idiot.'
'You're an idiot.'

Suddenly, Dustin pauses.

We follow his gaze.

He is looking in
on Nancy's room.

The door is cracked.

She's on her bed
on the phone, cord

wrapped around her fingers,
legs kicked in the air.

Dustin gawks.

Nancy notices.

'What the fuck?

Get out of my room, freak.'

'I'm not in your
room, technically.'

Wham, she slams the door on him.

A beat and then Dustin
explodes outside beaming.

'Guys, Nancy just talked to me.'

Mike covers his ears.

He can't listen to this.
'Shut up.' 'Her boobs.'

'Shut up.

I'm not listening.' Will asks,
'Hey, can you guys play again

tomorrow?' 'Yeah, tomorrow.'

They bike off and then we
have a little bit of dialogue

describing, I think,
what they're doing

as they're backing off.
'You need to cast a Spell

of Protection.' 'I think
we should hide behind that

column.'

'No.

We need to push
them to the side.'

the sound of their
talking fades.

Mike is all alone again.

He shuts the garage door.

It grinds shut."

And so we-- I don't know why
we don't have the flickering

light in here.

But, somehow, that wound
back up in the script.

I don't know why that went away
from the-- from the outline--

the scaffolding outline.

But as you can see, as
we read that out, it's

not exactly what ended up in the
final script, but it's pretty--

pretty, pretty, pretty close.

Even some of that
dialogue stayed the same.

We figure-- found some stuff,
like cast a Spell of Protection

later on in here.

We moved that up earlier.

But the general
beats are there.

We got a little descriptive
on the neighborhood and stuff

and we stripped some of that
down when we went to script,

just to make sure the pacing--
but, again, we're really

starting to fill this in.

It went from the kids play
D&D to, suddenly, now,

we've got a lot going on.

We're introducing
these characters

when we're describing
the beats that happened.

And I think what's
really important is--

and the way you do
something like that--

say you have-- in your
scaffolding outline "Kids play

D&D."

Well, you're not
gonna just write

a scene about kids having
fun, playing D&D. That's not

really much of a scene.

And how are you gonna get
across their various characters?

Because that's really the
purpose of this scene.

Remember, story beat
A is you're trying

to introduce your characters.

And that's what we're
trying to do here.

And one really effective way
to do it is through conflict.

What it allows is that we get
to see, through this conflict,

how each of them wants to tackle
defeating this demogorgon.

We get to see a little bit of
their characters in the way

that they respond to
this conflict, right?

So we have Dustin,
who's a little more--

He-- he's a little
bit more careful.

He's a little bit more
prudent and cautious.

Pragmatic.

Pragmatic, you
might say, right?

He wants to cast a Spell
of Protection in the scene.

He wants to protect them.

He wants-- he's
a little bit more

taking the defensive route.

Then, we have Lucas, who's a
little bit bolder, a little bit

more courageous, in
terms of his style.

He wants to-- he wants
to just go for it.

And then, you have Will,
who's just shy and unsure

and a little bit lost.

He doesn't know what to do.

And he really is
looking to his friends

for answers in terms
of what he should do

and how he should
tackle the demogorgon.

So he's clearly not the
leader in this situation.

And then, you have Mike, who's
the ultimate, ultimate leader,

because he's the Dungeon Master
and he's running-- basically,

leading the entire session.

In this very simple scene,
where the conflict is simply

how to defeat an imaginary
monster in a silly game of D&D,

we're learning a lot about
who each of these characters

are, just in terms of how
they're handling the problem

that they're facing.

And we're also
setting up the conflict

to come between Dustin and
Lucas and that their approaches

of things are very different.

Now, this is just a game.

But it's gonna end up
applying to real life later.

And if you remember
their story arc,

in terms of they're falling
apart and then, you know,

getting back together, that's
gonna play a role later on.

And so we've now
introduced our kids.

And then, we know,
also, in this story

beat, we need to
introduce Mike's family,

because they're all
gonna play a role.

And again, how do we do that?

Mike?

ROSS DUFFER: Through conflict.

Mom, we're in the
middle of a campaign.

You mean the end?

15 after.

The mom says, you
can't play D&D anymore.

And so, again, stakes are
very low at this point,

because we're just
introducing these characters.

This is their normal life.

But through conflict and
Mike arguing with his mom,

we're gonna be able
to meet the mom.

We're gonna be able
to meet the dad.

We're gonna be
able to meet Nancy.

So in not very many
pages, in-- in this case,

in this outline, just
a couple paragraphs,

we're getting across
a lot of characters.

Hopefully, it's a fun scene.

And we're-- we're
really setting the stage

to-- of what's to come.

And so, again, the engine
that's driving it, because we

do not have a drive yet--

so what we're doing is
we're creating conflict

within this scene to
give it that engine,

to keep you turning the
pages, and to introduce

these characters in an
exciting and fun way.

So you're gonna do what
we did with that D&D scene

for each of your scenes,
for all of your story beats.

You're gonna end up
with something in the 10

to 20-page range.

Maybe it's a little too long
right now and it's 25 pages.

That's fine.

Don't freak out.

What you're then going to do
is you're gonna read it all,

from beginning to end.

And you're just gonna see
how it paces and how it flows

and what's working and
what's not working.

And we promise you, it's not
gonna be completely working.

I don't think we've
ever written an outline

and read it through the
first time and had it work.

Even though we felt good
about the scaffolding,

I think as you flesh it
out and read it through,

you're gonna realize
that there are

other issues you didn't see--

Pacing issues and--

Maybe this scene
here is just, like--

it's in the way and-- and
it's killing the pacing.

And can you figure out a way
to get that information across

in an earlier scene?

And so you're gonna keep--

basically, you just
keep working on it.

Or you realize, oh, wait.

Do I really need this scene?

There's no way you're
gonna write this all out

and it's gonna work
completely perfectly.

So--

Like, for example--

here's just one
of many examples.

In the pilot, we had an early
storyline with Eleven, right?

Who's-- she's being held in
the base before she escapes.

OK?

We now return to the military
base, radar spinning around.

We cut inside the base.

We're traveling
down a dark tunnel.

We find a young girl is
being held in a captive--

in a windowless room.

There's a tattoo on her wrist.

There's a single lamp and the
agent is interrogating her.

She's shaking, crying.

"It's not my fault."

She's hinting that
something took this boy.

What took the boy?

What boy?

I can hear him.

I can hear the boy.

He's screaming.

She begins to cry.

And then, they shut
the door on her.

OK?

So remember how we
talked about how

we ended up having Eleven's
storyline go halfway

through the script?

It's because we had
so much to introduce

in the first half of our
pilot that we didn't really

have time to do an Eleven
introduction scene.

So instead, we sort
of caught her--

we-- we go back into this--
this-- stuff like this

later when we do flashbacks.

What we did is we
just cut to her.

She's already escaped the lab.

And she's going to Benny's.

And that way, it saved
us a room to introduce

Mike and Hopper and
Joyce and all of that

up front, because we cut
out a scene like this,

because it was just
hurting the pacing.

And in fact, it improved when
we introduced Eleven and didn't

even know that she
came from the base.

It gave us an--
an air of mystery

that we actually
ended up liking.

So this whole scene just
ended up getting cut.

Now, this is gonna
look like more work

than it is, because a lot
of this is cut and paste.

But we're cutting
scenes, tweaking scenes,

moving stuff around.

And it's dozens and dozens
and dozens of pages of this.

Because at this thing, you're
writing this on spec, right?

This is-- you don't have anyone
else to hold you accountable,

except yourself.

Yes, you can share with people.

But the most important
critic is gonna be yourself.

Keep reading this thing.

Keep molding it.

Again, this stage is the
stage where you can change

things and delete things.

Writing that scene that I
just talked to you about,

about Eleven being interrogated
by an agent in the lab,

that would've taken
hours and hours to write.

Even in script form.

In script form.

That would've taken a long time.

And then, you would've-- so
if you can cut it right now,

it's a lot easier.

Because to do little rough
dashes, like we're doing,

is fast.

You can, quote, unquote,
"Write scenes in the final

outline quickly.

You can delete them quickly."

So you've gotta just
keep reading this thing.

And don't be afraid to move
stuff around, to delete stuff,

to say, hey, you know what?

This storyline
just isn't working.

Let me reevaluate.

And then, you can always go
back into the scaffolding stage

and go, OK, I'm gonna
break these beats again.

We do that all the time.

It's just gonna be a process.

And again, I think we had--

when I-- when I went through to
gather all this for the class,

we had probably 150
pages of this outline,

just over and over again,
just keep on working it.

One thing that's also important
as you're doing these scenes

is something that--

that we always try
to do is you can

have characters' inner rooms,
but not even a lot of the time.

You can just cut to
them in this location.

And then, don't have
them exit the room.

You don't need your
characters to always go.

Occasionally, this is fine.

But a lot of the times, it's
just completely unnecessary.

You don't need them to
go, OK, let's find Will.

OK, guys.

And then, we don't
have to watch them.

Like, everyone gets up,
grabs their backpacks,

leaves the room.

That's just what we
call shoe leather.

It's unnecessary to the story.

If you go, OK, we're
gonna go find Will,

you can cut to
them finding Will.

For instance, in--
in the pilot episode

of-- of "Stranger
Things," or "Montauk,"

we have Hopper learn from
Dustin and Mike and Lucas

that Will often goes home
by-- on a road-- what

they call Mirkwood.

And so next time
we cut to Hopper,

he's already in-- walking
down that road at Mirkwood.

We understand.

And we've also set up, from
the prior beat, that that's

where he's gonna go.

We don't see him leave the
school, drive over to Mirkwood.

It's really boring.

And I think-- I think
that will kill your pacing

and just make your script
longer than it needs to be.

So yeah, look out
for that excess fat

and-- and cut it out.

So now that you have your
scaffolding outline, right,

and you've woven it
all together and you

think that's working,
now, it's time

to do what we did
with that D&D scene

and just start
fleshing it all out.

So you're gonna take
your scaffolding outline

that you've woven together.

And you're gonna go
one beat at a time,

starting from the
beginning, and you're just

gonna flesh out each
story beat or each scene.

And you're gonna do that
for all of the scenes.

And when you're done with that,
you're gonna read it through.

Hopefully, again, this is
in the 10 to 15-page range.

So it's gonna be a lot longer.

If something is
really not working,

it actually is too
overwhelming to try

to fix a major problem in this
stage, just zoom back out,

return to the scaffolding stage,
make some adjustments there.

Then, go back into
the final outline.

Again, Ross and I spend longer
on this stage on the outline

than we do on the actual script.

We almost spend
double the time on it.

And we do that because
we believe this is, aside

from developing
the big idea, this

is the most important step.

This is you putting in
all of the work, really.

And again, if you
do this correctly,

then the script itself--

writing the script
itself, you'll

never get stuck in that stage.

You'll never stick that script
in a drawer and to never return

it.

You're gonna finish that script.

So just get this outline down.

Spend some time on this.

Spend a lot of time on this.

And get this right.

Once you have the
final outline, you

can finally move
to script stage,

which is what we'll cover next.

So now, hopefully you
have your final outline.

I know it's been
a-- a long journey.

If you've been working on
this big idea of yours,

it's been a long
journey to get here.

But now, we can finally safely
move into the script stage.

So what you're going
to take is-- again,

that outline should be
relatively detailed.

So now we're just making it--

we're making it pretty.

We're formatting into
the screenplay format.

We're adding in a lot
more of the dialogue.

Again, maybe you had
some ideas for dialogue,

but now you're going to
add all of the dialogue.

You're going to smooth out
all of your descriptions,

transitions from one to--

one scene to the next.

So you're really just
putting on the final touches.

You're making your house
beautiful and livable now.

So this is really the
final step of this process.

So one thing we're not going
to get into in this class

is how to format your script.

Most of these programs,
whether you're

working on Final Draft
or WriterDuet, which

is what we work on,
it will automatically

format it for you.

And the best thing to do is
just to look at, read, you know,

any screenplay, and
you'll be able to see

pretty quickly how these studios
want your scripts formatted.

ROSS DUFFER: Sort of scene
heading and capitalizing

character names when you first
meet them, all of that stuff.

There are a bunch
of little rules.

They're actually very simple.

And again, you can
find any information

you want on that
online, so we're not

going to get too much into that.

It's very simple
and straightforward.

So if you have a
good final outline,

if you feel confident
in that final outline

and that final
outline is, indeed,

working, the script itself--

again, this is a little
bit more of a formality.

Yeah, you're adding in dialogue.

You're making it pretty.

But it shouldn't take as
long as the outline took.

At least it doesn't
take us as long.

Yeah.

It usually takes
us around two weeks

to turn a final outline
into a final script.

And I think that
is how long it took

us to write the pilot
for "Stranger Things."

This is really
just the formality.

This is Hitchcock showing up.

Picture's done.

Now I just have to film it.

I should mention,
though, and this--

because this has happened to us.

It didn't happen with
the "Montauk" pilot.

No.

But it has happened with
other scripts that we've written

and it's happened to us with
"Stranger Things" scripts

where you think you have a
final outline that works.

You move into script.

You're writing the
script, and just something

is just not working.

Actually, this happens
to us quite a bit.

So that's normal, first of
all, so you shouldn't be

distressed or upset about that.

What you really should do then
is kind of what we were saying,

you know, when you're
in the final outline,

how you maybe need
to back out again

into the scaffolding outline.

So if you're in the script
and something really

doesn't seem to be working,
or you read it through

and it doesn't seem to be
working, just go back a step.

Go back into the outline stage.

Revisit the outline.

If you're going to make any sort
of major structural changes,

make those changes
in the outline stage,

not while you're in
the script stage,

because it's just
too time consuming.

And I think another mistake
sometimes people are going

to make is that they're
going to over-write it.

They're like, oh, this is
the-- this is a script.

That was just an outline.

Now I'm going to
make it all-- write

all these fancy descriptions
and all of this.

I'm going to show-- prove to
everyone what a great writer

I am.

Try to resist that,
and we're going

to go into more detail
in a second in terms

of at least the way we
write and the way that we

find is the most effective.

But you're not
writing a novel here.

Even though this is a
script, you're really just--

it is an outline for what is
ultimately going to get filmed.

You don't want to write more
than you-- than you need.

This is still going to be a
bare-bones relatively simple

document.

So now what we're
going to do is we're

going to show you a scene
from our final outline,

and then we're going to
show you how we translated

that scene into our script.

So you're going to see what
stayed the same, what changed,

what additions we put in there.

Hopefully that'll
help give you a sense

of how you can move from your
outline into the script stage.

So the scene we're
going to look at

is the scene between
Eleven and Benny.

And if you remember
back in season one,

if you've seen
"Stranger Things,"

Benny is the owner and
cook of Benny's Fish 'N--

well, it was a fish restaurant
and became a burger joint

in the final show.

But anyway, he's caught Eleven
trying to steal food from him.

And now he's feeding her and
trying to figure out who she is

and what she's doing, is
she a runaway, whatever.

So let's look at what
that scene looked

like in the final outline first.

Back to Fish N' Fly.

Hiss.

Salmon hisses on a plate.

Again, so it was fish.

It turned into a burger.

Salmon hisses on plate.

Benny is cooking for Eleven
some actually good cooked food,

fish or salmon or something.

They sit down together
in a small kitchen.

Delicious, spelled
completely wrong.

Scene where he tries to get
info out of her, asks about it.

What's your name?

Where's your parents?

What are your parents'
names, et cetera?

She finally speaks, but only
cryptically, also spelled

totally wrong.

Says that something
bad is coming.

Paranoid.

Sees headlights out window.

Nervous.

Someone's looking for her.

So Benny picks up on this.

Who is looking for you?

She won't say, but her little
eyes are filled with fear.

Benny is concerned.

You stay here for now.

You're safe here.

She takes his hand, says
something about his past.

I'm sorry about your friend.

I'm sorry he drowned.

Benny gets the chills.

How do you know about him?

El removes her hand, goes back
to eating, finishes her food.

Benny is unnerved.

You want more?

El nods.

As El continues to eat,
getting a second helping,

Benny gets on the phone,
keeps his voice down

so she can't hear her.

Hey, Jean.

Hey.

It's Benny Hammond.

Got a little girl here.

I'm a little worried
she's going to run.

Seems like she hasn't had
a bite to eat in a year.

Hasn't spoken a word.

Abused, I think.

Must be a missing kid.

This is him hearing about Will.

Well, I've got a
found kid right here.

I've got a bad
feeling about this.

Jots down a number
for social services.

So that's the final
outline for the scene.

You'll see this is pretty close
to what ends up in the script,

but there are some
key differences.

But there are some
key differences, yeah.

So Ross will now read that--
this scene in the script

for us.

Now I'm just going into
the scene real quick.

Hiss, snap hiss.

An Atlantic cod fries in oil.

Benny tends it.

He slides a plate of fish
and chips to the young girl.

She's seated at the table.

It's just her now.

Regulars are gone.

Her gown has been replaced
with a Fish 'N Fry t-shirt.

It droops to her
knees like a dress.

She stares at the
food with wide eyes.

Benny-- figured you're
going to eat my food anyway.

Might as well eat it right.

The young girl reaches out
to pick up the fish, but--

I said, right.

Benny splashes hot sauce
on the fish, nods okay.

She-- the girl
snatches up the fish

and devours it, no utensils.

Benny-- your parents
forget to feed you?

The girl doesn't respond,
just keeps eating.

That why you ran away?

Still nothing.

They hurt you?

Nothing.

And you went to the
hospital, that it?

But you got scared, ran
off, found your way here?

The girl finally
looks up at Benny.

Has he hit close to the mark?

It seems like she is
finally going to speak,

but instead she nudges her
empty plate over to Benny.

The message is clear--

more.

How about this?

You get more, much as you like.

But first, you've got to
answer a few of my questions.

We got a deal?

No response.

We'll start easy.

My name's Benny,
Benny Henderson.

He holds out a hand, wraps
it around her tiny hand.

Nice to meet you.

And you are?

Still no response.

Benny sighs.

He starts to withdraw
his hand when

he notices a small tattoo on
the inside of her lower wrist.

It reads in simple
black lettering, 11.

Eleven?

The young girl
yanks her hand away.

What's that mean?

No.

Well, I'll be damned.

She speaks.

No?

No what?

Still nothing.

All right, guess
no more fish then.

Benny takes her plate and
starts to walk away when--

Eleven.

Benny turns back around.

Eleven.

Yeah.

What's that mean?

The young girl
points to herself.

Eleven.

We then cut forward.

Benny is on the phone.

I won't read all this.

He's talking to Flor
who's-- works for Hopper,

and he gets a number
for social services.

Then we go back
into the main room

where Eleven's
waiting for her food.

Her legs sway beneath the table.

She becomes aware of a
soft high-pitched noise.

Eee-eee-eee.

She looks up.

It's the screen door.

The wind is gently blowing it,
causing its hinges to squeak.

Eee-eee-eee.

It is incessant, annoying.

She narrows her eyes.

The door stops mid-swing
like it somehow froze.

Eleven looks away, content now.

Right.

So I mean, as you can
see, mostly the same,

but there are changes.

We start with the fish frying.

That's the same way.

We cut to the-- we
cut to them eating.

And then Benny is trying to
get information out of Eleven.

That's the same in both.

And I think it's important
here to sort of reiterate

that idea that we talked
about earlier in the scene

when we were talking about
the D&D scene, which is even

a simple sort of quiet scene
like this, there is conflict.

There's even yes--
there's no yelling even

like in that D&D scene.

No one's--

I mean, Eleven's
hardly speaking.

Eleven's hardly speaking,
but there is still conflict,

the conflict being Benny is
trying to learn who Eleven is

and if she ran from home
and what is her name.

And Eleven is not
giving that information.

Just like in the outline--

She wants to eat.

--she's not speaking.

She just wants to eat.

She's not-- wants to eat
and she certainly doesn't want

to tell him who she is.

She's--

She doesn't-- she has
trust issues, right?

Understandably.

Obviously, we add detail.

We're a little bit more
specific about the type of fish

they're eating, you know.

We didn't spend time
researching any of that

in the outline stage, so we
started to look into, okay,

what kind of food would they--

Yeah.

--probably be serving at a
place like this in Montauk?

So you do start to get a little
bit specific, a little bit

more specific about what
Benny's restaurant looks like.

They hurt you?

You went to the hospital,
you got scared, you ran off,

you wound up here?

Is that it?

All right.

I'll give this back, all
right, and you can have as much

as you want, all right,
maybe even some ice cream.

But you got to answer a few of
my questions first, all right?

Got a deal?

One change we do make,
though, she's not speaking,

which is the same
as the outline.

But in the script,
we have Benny try

a new tactic, which he's
trying to withhold food

from her in order to get--

Right.

--get information from her.

Because I think, as we went
into scene, we were like, well,

there's conflict here
that she's not speaking,

but we wanted Benny to
be a little more active.

So we added in that beat, which
is, I think, an improvement.

So again, the scenes
are mostly the same,

but we're adding in stuff to
make this scene a little better

and a little bit more dynamic.

And the same thing
goes with-- yeah.

And there are two
other key changes.

Yeah.

One is he sees her
tattoo and she tells him

her name, which is Eleven.

And I think what's
nice about this

is you're starting to have
these characters connect

in more of a real way.

Benny is starting
to care for her.

Yeah.

Hopefully the audience is
starting to care about Benny.

They don't know he's
going to die soon.

Yeah.

But it's something
emotional that

is, I think, better
in the final script

than it is in the outline.

The other key change
we made, of course,

is we removed the
moment where she

tells Benny she knows something
about his friend who died.

She has--

Her psychic powers.

She's psychic, so she's
able to read his mind.

We have a very
similar beat, right,

where she stops the
swinging screen door.

So it's still-- both beats
are doing the same thing

or accomplishing the
same thing, which

is revealing for the
audience that Eleven

has psychic or psionic
abilities, and it's exciting.

I think why it's
better in the script is

it's just a little bit--
it's more visual, right?

I mean, you're seeing
her use her powers

to physically stop something.

But I think the
real reason we did

it was because it's
better to have that

at the end of the scene
as a way to punch it out.

It's good to have him
calling social services

or writing down the
number for social services

because you know the
next beat is going to be,

quote unquote, "social
services showing up."

So it is setting
up the next scene.

Benny's going to involve
more people here.

But that's not nearly
as strong of an out

as Eleven demonstrating to the
audience for the first time

that she has psionic
powers, that she's

more than just a regular girl.

[FAN SCREECHING]

So that's a lot more of an
exciting, quote unquote,

"cliffhanger" to
end your scene on.

And it also creates a bit of--
whereas, before, Benny goes,

wait, there's something
special about this girl, now,

he doesn't know that.

Only the audience
knows that, so we're

creating a little bit of
dramatic irony here where--

which is essentially,
the audience

know something that
a character does not.

So in this case, now the
audience is aware that this

girl has some sort of special
abilities, but Benny doesn't.

And that creates an
exciting question

for the audience, which
is what's going to happen?

Is Benny going to find
out about these powers?

What's the next beat?

It gives us-- it sort
of keeps, continues

to propel the story forward.

And like Matt's saying,
I'm on my edge of my seat

now because this girl
has powers and Benny

doesn't know about it.

That's much more exciting.

So we're continuing
to take these scenes

and we're trying
to elevate them.

But generally, the
beats stayed the same.

As you're moving
into script stage,

and you're going
to start turning

this outline into a script,
it's important to keep

in mind there are three key
elements to every script--

description, action,
and dialogue.

Those are the
three things you're

going to need to
practice and get good at.

And you're going to have
to kind of figure out

what your style
is in terms of how

you do each of those things.

And so Ross and I, when we
were learning how to write,

the best thing to
do is actually not

even to take a
screenwriting class.

The best thing to do is
just to read other scripts.

Read scripts from
movies that you like.

Read-- you know, even
reading bad scripts helps.

And the good news now is
that with the internet,

most scripts are
available online.

If you just Google
for them, you'll

be able to find a PDF
for almost anything.

You can read scripts
to old classic films.

We would also suggest,
though, reading some more

recent examples because
screenplay formatting, which

I know we're not really
getting into right now much,

but it has changed a
lot over the years.

It's going to be
a little more up

to date in terms of how we write
and format scripts these days.

The best thing to do
is to find a screenwriter

out there whose style you
enjoy, who writes in a way that

feels a lot like you.

When we were
learning how to write,

we read a bunch of scripts.

And we found a
couple that really

spoke to us in
terms of their style

that we really responded to.

And one is a script
called "Panic Room," which

is written by David Koepp, which
was made into a movie directed

by David Fincher and starring
Jodie Foster and Kristen

Stewart.

So he's a great screenwriter.

"Panic Room" was
a huge spec sale.

I think that's
probably initially

why we wanted to
look at that script.

We also love that movie.

And it's a really good script to
learn because of the simplicity

of the storyline.

Its two characters
trapped in one location.

But let's look at how
he writes descriptions--

"interior, top-floor
bedroom, day.

Evan, Lydia, and Meg poke their
heads in a series of rooms one

after the other.

The two are flying by quickly.

First, an upstairs bedroom--

nice, roomy, looks
out on the courtyard."

And then Evan says, top floor,
two bedrooms, one bathroom.

And then in another scene
heading, "interior, den, day.

Another floor,
another empty room.

The trio passes through."

Why I wanted to illustrate
this as David Koepp writes

a lot of his descriptions
like this, which is they

are very bare.

I mean, he doesn't waste
time describing what

any of these rooms looks like.

He's already described it
as a New York brownstone.

He doesn't really describe
it any more than that.

I mean, the rooms are empty.

But he doesn't go
into detail describing

the color of the walls,
cracked paint, any of that.

"Another floor, another
empty room--" boom, in, out.

This script flies.

And that's one reason we liked
it so much because, you know,

when we're talking about how
important it is to get people

to just keep flipping
the pages, there's

no way you could start "Panic
Room" and not finish it.

The only important thing--

David Koepp knows this, right,
because it's his story--

is that the only important thing
about the top-floor bedroom

is that it looks out
onto the courtyard.

So he puts that--

Yes.

--but nothing else.

But that's good
because then it's

highlighting that factor,
which is the only factor that's

going to impact the narrative
in any meaningful way.

So he does underscore that.

But everything else he
leaves up to the imagination

of the reader.

That's how you should do it.

And so I think if you
look at what we wrote,

I think you can see how we took
inspiration from David's style.

You can look at from
the shooting script

of "Stranger Things."

This is early on
after Will has--

he's encountered
something in the road.

And he's gotten off his bike.

And he's trying to escape
whatever this evil is

and get home.

And we say, "Will
burst out of the woods.

Up ahead, his house.

It is small, one story,
lower class, falling apart."

That's it.

You know, in a book, if we
were writing "Stranger Things"

as a novel, we'd probably go
into more detail describing

the surroundings, describing
exactly how that house appears

and looks like.

What's the color of the walls?

Is the paint peeling?

Is the lawn overgrown?

You know--

Are these trees around?

You know, are
there trees around?

What is the
color of the grass?

We just skipped all of
that because we want

the reader to fly through this.

We're giving them everything
that they really need to know,

is that Will lives in
a lower-class house.

And it's falling apart.

And in falling
apart, they can start

to-- they can imagine that.

They get it.

And then you'll-- your
production designer will fill

that in.

And you can work with your
production design later.

I can't tell you how
much time we waste it

early on when we
are learning how

to write just trying to be fancy
and show off with our writing.

No one cares.

What matters is get the
information across you

need to get across.

That's it.

Move on to the next beat.

That's all you have to do.

No executive's going to
be impressed by a big word

that you use.

You don't have to put a single
big word in your script.

Just-- they're going to be
impressed by a good story.

So that's description,
very simple.

The same rules apply
really for everything else.

It really definitely
applies to action, I think.

I can't tell you
how many scripts

we've read where the action
is kind of over described.

We used to do that.

We used to worry
about describing

every beat, every punch.

It's, like, you're not
an action choreographer.

Like, you don't have
to figure it all out.

Simple, clean is better.

So, again, we learned a little
bit about this from David Koepp

in terms of how quick
his action read.

And that's because he
kept it very, very simple.

So let's look at another
scene from "Panic Room."

This is a little bit
deeper into the story.

The way David Koepp
describes this

is, "Meg's thumb tenses for
one good hard turn dash, dash.

Then in the bedroom comma
Burnham leaps through the air,

hurtling himself toward
the propane tank dash dash.

Inside the duct, Meg
cranks the wheel.

A spark sparks, a flame flames.

And a hot blue cloud shoots
out in two directions,

one toward the panic room,
the other toward the bedroom."

He wrote that about as
simply as you could.

He described only what
you needed to know.

There's no flourishes about--

"a flame flames."

Like, it's so basic.

"A spark sparks."

I mean, it has a nice
rhythm to it actually.

It's not-- it's good writing,
but it's very, very simple

writing.

So I'll show you
an example of how

we wrote this in "Hidden,"
which, again, is a bomb shelter

script we wrote that became
a film for Warner Brothers.

So this is a scene
where, remember,

they're trying to hide from
these so-called monsters that

are on the surface.

They're in the bomb shelter.

One of our main characters, Ray,
is trying to close the door.

But a Breather, who's our
monster, rips open the door.

And we describe him as having
"a powerful and hulking body,

heaving with every raspy
breath, a untangle of appendages

drooping down his neck,
and most terrifying of all,

glowing red eyes.

The Breather suddenly hisses,
diving through the opening,

lunging right at Ray.

And whoom!

Something large smashes the
Breather on the face so hard

and knocks him a few
feet away from the door."

So again, it's very
simple description.

It's also spaced out, which is
something you can do to give--

allow your action
room to breathe,

allow people to keep
flipping through those pages.

Like, what we like to
do is mirror the writing

with the pace a little bit.

So we could have smushed that
all together in a paragraph.

But by spreading it
out, it highlights--

--how fast.

--how fast it goes
in each moment.

And also makes your script
read really, really fast.

You're just going to keep
flipping those pages.

What's going to happen next?

And again, very simple
language, very simple writing.

So now we've talked about
action and descriptions.

We should talk about dialogue.

So this is actually
probably going

to be the biggest difference
or biggest change,

the most work
you're going to have

to do when you're turning your
final outline into a script.

Yeah, you may have had
some basic dialogue

in your final outline.

I think you saw that we had some
very spare dialogue in there,

suggestions of really
what they could be saying.

But it's pretty rough.

So a lot of it at the time--
and we said it takes two weeks.

A lot of that two weeks
is going to be spent

kind of refining your dialogue.

But again, just like
action descriptions,

we think simplicity
is your friend here.

Often just like how action
descriptions are overwritten,

dialogue is often overwritten.

Nobody talks like that.

And I think it's also worth
looking again at "Panic Room."

We looked at how David
Koepp wrote dialogue.

So Ross and I will show
you our acting skills.

And we're going to act this out.

I'm going to be Sarah,
and he's going to be Meg.

Sarah is the daughter, and Meg--

Meg is the mom.

You're the mother.

I'm Jodie Foster, yeah.

I'm Kristin Stewart.

All right.

All right.

All right.

We'll show him how it's done.

What do we do?

ROSS AS MEG: Wait.

MATT AS SARAH: What
if they get in here?

ROSS AS MEG: They can't.

They can't get in here.

No, they can't.

MATT AS SARAH: I heard you.

ROSS AS MEG: Feel okay?

MATT AS SARAH: Yeah.

ROSS AS MEG: Shaky?

MATT AS SARAH: No.

ROSS AS MEG: Chills?

MATT AS SARAH: Mm-mm.

That's it.

That's it.

Well, okay, that's--
first of all,

you see why we went into writing
and directing and not acting.

But also, you'll
see how simple--

that simple that dialogue is.

It's, like, I mean, this is
a kind of an extreme example.

But you know what I mean?

I like-- I like how quick it is.

Yeah.

I like that his dialogue
reads really quickly here

because often people like that.

And this is a situation
where they're really nervous.

The mother and daughter are
firing back and forth first

really fast.

And something you also see--

and this is something
we like to do

as well that David Koepp does--
is he has the mom, played

by Ross, repeating words.

So she goes, "they can't.

They can't get in here.

No, they can't."

She keeps repeating
"they can't."

She's trying to reassure herself
that they won't get in there.

But she's just looping.

And that's something you
often don't see in dialogue,

but you do see and
dialogue that's

written well because that's
really how people speak,

especially when they're in these
sort of anxious situations.

They repeat themselves.

I mean, we've been repeating
ourselves over and over

in this class.

And the editors have
just cut it out.

Blue sky.

Blue sky.

Blue sky.

Zoomed out.

Zoomed out.

More zoomed out.

Baby steps.

Baby steps.

Baby steps.

And throw in "you knows"
and "ums" and uncertainties.

And we do a lot of dashes.

You don't have to do that.

But again, you want to
messy it up a little bit.

Just, you want the dialogue
to keep pushing forward.

You don't want it to always
loop around too much.

You want to give it
that forward momentum.

But you want to make
it a little messy.

If it's too clean,
if it's too perfect,

it's not going to feel real.

You've spent your whole
life listening to people

and how they talk.

And so you just want
to try to get some

of that realism in your script.

Again, it's a little heightened.

We're pushing it along a
little more unnaturally

than it would be in real life.

But you've got to fill it in
with those real-life details

to make it come alive.

And you also notice that
he doesn't-- you know,

you'll see sometimes writers
will put in parentheses.

They'll put a description of
how a character is feeling.

So they'll put in anxious.

He doesn't-- or nervous to tell
the reader and the actor how

the character should feel.

I think you should limit
how often you do this.

So you'll notice here he does
it on that line that Meg,

that Ross performed so
beautifully, where he says,

Meg is nervous, is you're
going, "they can't.

They can't get in here.

No, they can't."

He doesn't say
anxious or nervous.

He doesn't tell you
how the mom is feeling.

In fact, there's no descriptions
here in this dialogue.

It's just a beautiful
nice chunk of dialogue.

I don't think you should limit
how often you're breaking up

dialogue with descriptions
because it just

hurts the rhythm and the pace.

You get that the mom is anxious.

Again, your reader's not stupid.

Your audience is not stupid.

They understand
the mom is nervous.

And that should come
across in the dialogue.

If you're having to tell the
audience that she's anxious,

that maybe your dialogue's
not working so well.

Maybe you need to
rework that line.

So now we're going to look
at a scene from season four

to demonstrate how dialogue
works in "Stranger Things."

This is a scene in episode
four, where Robin and Nancy go

to Pennhurst Asylum.

And they're trying to
convince the director

of Pennhurst Asylum, Hatch--

Impressive.

--to let them
see Victor Creel,

who they really desperately
need to talk to learn about--

to learn some key information.

So I'm going to read
some of the scene.

I'm going to do the
descriptions in Hatch.

Matt'll play Robin and
Nancy in the tour de force.

So "interior Pennhurst Asylum,
Director Hatch's office, day.

Director Hatch lowers the
resumes to reveal our girl

sitting across from him.

As Robin tugs annoyingly
at her collar,

Nancy hands him another paper."

MATT AS NANCY: And this
is a recommendation

from Professor Brantley.

ROSS AS HATCH: Oh, I know
Larry, quite well, actually.

The director scans
the recommendation.

(AS HATCH) You know what they
say, those who can't do, teach.

He tosses down the
recommendation.

Robin continues to
tug at her collar.

She's being weird.

Nancy gives her a look, stop it.

Then back to the director.

MATT AS NANCY: Yes, that's,
um, actually why we're here.

We can only learn so
much in a classroom.

ROSS AS HATCH: And I'm
sympathetic to your struggle,

truly.

But there is a protocol to
visiting a patient like Victor.

You have to put in a request.

Then you have to
undergo a screening

process, at which point, the
board will make a decision.

Robin and Nancy share looks.

This is not going
how they hoped.

Robin tugs at her collar again.

Jesus, she's a mess.

(AS HATCH) I can see
you're disappointed.

But I'm more than happy to give
you a tour of our facility.

Perhaps you could even speak
to some of our patients

in our low-security wing.

MATT AS NANCY: Right.

We love that.

It's just our thesis
is due next month.

And--

ROSS AS HATCH:
You're out of time.

And whose fault is that?

MATT AS NANCY: I--

I know.

It's just, uh-- yes,
our fault, absolutely.

And I apologize.

But--

And I'm switching over to Robin.

(AS ROBIN) Don't
apologize, Ruth.

Screw that.

ROSS DUFFER: Nancy shoots
Robin a shocked look.

But Robin continues.

MATT AS ROBIN: The
fact of the matter

is we did put in the request
months ago and were denied.

And then we reapplied
and were denied again.

And coming here was
our last-ditch effort

to save our thesis.

And-- and I can't
breathe in this thing!

She finally button's the
top button, sucks in some air.

Nancy stares at
her with wide eyes.

MATT AS NANCY: Rose,
maybe you should

go outside and get some air.

MATT AS ROBIN: Maybe I should,
Ruth, because you know what?

I'm starting to think
that this whole thing was

a colossal mistake.

I'm breaking out in a rash.

My boobs hurt.

Nancy shoots daggers.

WTF.

Robin is ruining everything.

Yet Rose keeps going.

The truth is, Anthony--

may I call you Anthony?

Maybe we don't need any--

These aren't
actually my clothes.

Blah, blah, blah.

She has a giant monologue here.

I would love to hear Matt
read this entire monologue.

But I think Maya Hawke does
it a lot better than he does.

So--

Rude.

So we're going to stop there.

But she basically does
this entire monologue.

And she says-- she says
that she-- they want--

all they need is 10
minutes with Victor.

But she appeals to
his emotions here.

I mean, that's the key of it.

She appeals to his emotion.

She talks about how
much it means to her

and how she wants to be
exactly like Director Hatch

and how fascinated she is with
the Victor Creel murders, blah,

blah, blah, blah, blah.

But she's taking a very
different tactic here in order

to--

And then we say, off
Director Hatch, staring,

we cut to dash dash "whoom!"

I'm back in 30.

ROSS DUFFER: A shocked but
nevertheless very impressed

Nancy gives Robin a secret
underhanded high five.

And then we cut
to our next scene.

The reason why we
think it works is

because, one, Robin and Nancy
have a very clear goal, which

is they need to see Victor.

So that gives you an
engine to the scene

and for this dialogue to work.

Though Nancy and Robin
have the same goal,

they're on different wavelengths
about how to go about that.

So when Nancy's
doing this, she's

just trying to
ask very politely.

Our thesis is due next month.

And you're out of time.

Whose fault is that?

Ours, absolutely,
and I do apologize.

Don't apologize, Ruth.

Screw that.

Robin decides to go a
very different tactic.

This is an instance
where we said, well,

how the heck is she going
to convince this guy?

And we thought this was
an opportunity for her

to give a big speech.

And so there are
going to be moments

like that where you're not
being spare in your writing.

And you give something--
you're going to give

your character a monologue.

And that's okay.

But then we have Nancy, who's
on a very different wavelength.

She's looking at
Robin in horror.

This is not how this
was supposed to go.

Hatch is sort of stunned by
this whole thing-- everyone

on a bit of a different age.

I'm starting to think
this whole thing is

a colossal mistake.

And that creates
a lot of conflict

to keep that scene
moving, moving, moving.

10 minutes with
Victor, it's all I ask.

In order to have good
dialogue, of course,

you're also going to have to
have really strong characters.

They're each going to have
to have their own sort

of unique and distinct voice.

You're going to find that
kind of as you're writing.

But hopefully what's really
going to inform their voice

is going to be a lot
of that character work

you did when you were
working on the big ideas

and the blue skying
and the outline stage.

Hopefully you're starting
to have a sense of who

these characters are.

And you're going to find their
voice as you're writing them.

They should never
be interchangeable.

So you should never
be able to just swap

a Will line with a Mike line, a
Hopper line with a Joyce line.

It's like, no, no,
no, that's a sign

that line is not specific
enough or unique enough

to that character if you
just switch it at random.

That's a good--
that's one good way

of telling whether the
voices are specific enough.

And just like
in the D&D scene,

where their characters
and their personality

has affected how they dealt with
in that scene the conflict of,

how do we fight this
Demogorgon, that's

going to really
apply to every scene.

And it's their
character that's going

to inform their point of view
to how to deal with conflict.

And that's going to
allow the audience

to even see more about who
these people really are.

So just as a quick
example, we're

going to look at another
scene from the pilot.

This is where Joyce comes to
Hopper's office to tell him

that her son is missing.

So let's take a look at a
few lines from this scene.

In this scene I'll be Joyce.

okay.

And I'll read-- and
you can be Hopper.

"Joyce paces, dragging
on a cigarette.

She's on edge, so far out she
might just fall right off."

(AS JOYCE) I've been
waiting an hour--

MATT AS HOPPER: And
I apologize again.

ROSS AS JOYCE: A goddamn hour.

MATT AS HOPPER: I understand.

But a boy his age most
likely is playing hooky.

ROSS AS JOYCE: Not my Will, no.

He wouldn't do that.

He's not like that.

MATT AS HOPPER: You never know.

My mother thought I was on
the debate team, when really I

was screwing Chrissy Carpenter
in the back of my dad's boat.

ROSS AS JOYCE:
Will's not like you.

He's not like me.

He's not like most.

Okay.

"She takes another drag of
her cigarette, fights tears."

[CHUCKLES] Our
actors make fun of us

for how often we
write "fight tears."

We do like to do that.

Right.

Anyways.

The reason that this
is worth looking at

is it reveals a lot actually
about both of these characters

here.

You obviously have Joyce.

We describe her as, so far,
"she's on edge so far out,

she might just fall right off."

And that's reflected
in the dialogue.

But you notice in this
section of dialogue,

we're not breaking this up
with a lot of descriptions.

Yes, we take a beat to
describe that she's taking

another drag of her cigarette.

But for the most part,
it's just pure dialogue.

She's on edge.

She's upset.

And then Hopper is a
little bit we've-- you know,

set him up as a character.

He's broken.

You know, he's taking
this two and all.

He's not exactly-- he
is, as we established

on the very first line
we ever wrote about this,

he's Sam Rockwell
not McConaughey.

He's not that action hero.

He's not going to leap in
and be like, oh, my goodness,

your son's missing.

Let me go find him.

That's not the Hopper--

that's not the Hopper we know
or that we wanted to write.

He's a lot more
casual than that.

He's not necessarily a
great police officer.

So he's being pretty
casual about this.

And that's creating conflict.

Joyce is like, Matt's saying,
extraordinarily on edge.

Hopper's point of view is--

Hopper's laid.

--eh, probably okay.

And he's even making
a joke about screwing

Chrissy Carpenter in the
back of his dad's boat.

That's probably not the right
environment to make a joke,

right?

So you're starting-- I mean,
listen, he's apologizing.

He's not a total asshole.

But he's got that laid-back,
"I could give a shit"

attitude that is going to be
rubbing Joyce the wrong way.

So anyway, it's a simple scene.

She's, you know, again,
in the scaffolding.

And in fact, we showed
you the scaffolding.

It was like, you know,
Joyce visits Hopper's office

and asks him to find
her son, right? it

was something very
basic like that.

And then this is us fleshing
it out with conflict

and with, you know, very
specific character moments.

And then you even-- you
can look at that next line.

Joyce-- "he's got a
couple of friends.

But everyone else
they dash dash.

They make fun of him, call
him names, laugh at him,

his clothes."

You can see how we
repeat "they" twice.

And again, that's just
trying to get messy--

messy it all up a little bit.

She's nervous.

Like, we're saying she's pacing.

People repeat words.

People don't talk perfectly,
and particularly when

they're nervous like Joyce is.

So we like to messy it up to
give it a little more life.

And it's also fast.

We have-- this is, you
know, at the very beginning,

"I've been waiting an hour.

And I apologize again.

A goddamn hour."

It's very quick.

They're almost on
top of each other.

That's one reason we use
dashes to imply that.

It's-- there's not a big
gap between that dialogue.

They're basically
stepping on each other.

It's very spare
and quick and fast.

But because they're on
different points of views,

it just keeps propelling
that scene forward.

Joyce wants him to go find Will.

Hopper doesn't
really give a shit.

I have been waiting
here over an hour, Hopper.

And I apologize again.

I'm going out of my mind!

Look, a boy his age, he's
probably just playing hooky.

No, not my Will.

He's not like that.

He wouldn't do that.

Well, you never know.

I mean, my mom thought I
was on the debate team,

when really, I was just screwing
Chrissy Carpenter in the back

of my dad's Oldsmobile, so.

Look, he's not
like you, Hopper.

That's conflict right there,
just like with the warden

scene.

Something else that we do
that, we find is effective,

at least it helps us-- and I
think it does help the reader--

which is we incorporate a lot of
sound and descriptions of sound

into our scripts.

We think it helps make it feel
more alive, more like you're

actually watching it.

We do a lot of "whooms"
and "whooshes" and "vrooms"

and just stuff like that to
just-- a lot of times, for us,

it's emphasizing cuts, where
we're going from one scene,

maybe a quiet scene, and then
we like to punch the audience

and go, oh, a big
sound happens here.

Right.

Like, here's, for
example, quick something

from season four, where
this is episode seven.

We have-- this is the big
Demogorgon fight with Hopper.

"The wounded Demo
stumbles backwards

in the pit, black blood
spewing all over the ground

from its wounded mouth.

And "choom," the door
finally snaps shut.

And "bzz," a loud
buzzer sounds."

So again, we're just
doing this stuff

to fill it in, to give a
sense to the reader of what

this thing is going to
feel like and sound like.

We love doing it.

It's not necessary.

But that may be a
style that you also

want to apply to your script.

And these sounds are also
really important for us,

as I mentioned, for transitions.

We'd like to go from quiet.

And then, "vroom," Nancy
and Robin high five.

"Vroom," a car's moving past.

And we literally write
"vroom," like we're

little children, in the script.

To us, it helps emphasize
the sharpness of that cut.

So sound can be something that
can be helping you in terms

of writing transitions.

In the pilot, Joyce
has just discovered

that Will isn't here.

She's talking to
Jonathan about it.

She's concerned.

He says, call the school.

"The door slams shut.

And then "eee," an
electronic bell blares."

We're just communicating
to the audience

how we're going to transition
these two different storylines.

So you're going from a
door slam to a bell ring.

To us, it just keeps the
energy going, keeps it flowing,

and sort of connects
one scene to the next.

Right.

So you know, another
thing that you can do

is you can talk about the
music in a particular scene.

We don't do this often.

I mean, I've seen
writers who will

put what music
choice they think is

appropriate for the scene
in front of every scene.

That's something you
can do, if you want.

We don't do it
because unless you're

providing your executive with,
like, a Spotify playlist--

I don't know.

It's hard.

Every once in a while, you
can be specific about the song

that you imagine in a scene if
it's very important for setting

the mood of the scene.

I know in season
one, for instance,

we specified that
we wanted to use

Joy Division's "Atmosphere."

We definitely wrote
that into the script.

Like Matt's saying, sometimes
people put more just

to give people a sense of--

Mood.

--mood and feeling.

And that's definitely
something that you can do.

And here's another example.

In season four, episode
four, we have a huge moment

where Max, or
Sadie's, in trouble.

And in order to reach her
in this sort of mind, this

[INAUDIBLE] mindscape,
they use music.

Music as the method
with which they

are able to reach into her
mind and call out to her

and reconnect with Max.

And that's how she's able
to escape-- ultimately

escape this mind layer.

That was an idea that
came, like, halfway

through writing the season.

Someone-- it was not us--
pitched this idea of music.

So what we had to do then is we
had to go back to episode one.

And we wanted to plant the
idea that Max was really

into Kate Bush
because it only works

if it's your favorite
song or if it's

a song that has some sort of
personal connection to you.

So we layered that in.

And we wrote in this
montage of her walking

down the hallway in slow motion.

So we really hit
the Kate Bush note.

One other really
important thing you're

going to be working on as you're
moving from outline to script

is transitions.

And that really is building
in a moment that ties

one scene clearly to the next.

So one scene flows
clearly to the next scene.

Sound--

Sound is important.

Sound is extremely important.

There's a lot of
other techniques

for an effective transition.

Not all scenes--
not all scenes are

going to transition
fluidly-- you know, smoothly

to the next scene.

But the more smooth that you can
make one scene go to the next,

the better your
script's going to read,

the better your
script's going to flow,

the more people are just going
to keep turning those pages.

Another transition
technique will use

all the time is the match cut.

And the match cut is
really when you're

cutting from an
image in one scene

to an image in another
that's not the same

but is very similar.

And they can be very
different things.

But they just-- there's
something about those images

that lines up.

One of the most famous match
cuts in cinema history,

of course, is "2001--
a Space Odyssey."

You have, a caveman throw
a bone up into the air.

And then that bone--

Stanley Kubrick, the
director, makes a hard cut

from the bone to a
spaceship that is roughly

in the same shape as the bone.

That's a match cut, okay?

So we do that all the
time or variations of that

all the time.

Here's an example
from the pilot script.

"Mike wipes the saliva off in
his jeans, climbs on his bike,

and pedals off into the night.

Above him a street
light lamp flickers."

Then we go-- then we
cut to, "exterior,

Benny's Fish and Fry, night.

A light flickers inside
the Fish and Fry."

Again, it's not--
it's very simple.

It's very clean.

But it's linking these
storylines together.

You're going, okay,
something spooky

is going on to this town.

So even though it feels
like Mike's storyline is

a million miles apart
from Benny's, we're going,

oh, no, no, no, these
worlds haven't collided yet,

but they will.

It's connecting two very
disparate scenes together.

Before you start
writing your script,

read a script of a series
or movie in a similar genre

to the show you are developing.

Try to read something that has
been written in the last 20

years to get comfortable
with modern formatting

and screenwriting techniques.

MATT DUFFER
(VOICEOVER): We're going

to attempt to demo for you
in a short period of time

how we blue-sky ideas for a
scene, how we outline a scene,

and then how we take
that outline and turn it

into a script.

So what we're
going to do is we're

going to take that made
up, unofficial Dustin

and Steve spinoff.

And we're gonna write what we
think would be a cool opening

hook for that scene.

And this is gonna be real-time
and messy, because we really

have no idea what
we're gonna write.

We'll see how this
goes, but I think

it'll show you guys sort of
the process of how we actually

write this and also
how messy it is

and how much time
it's gonna take.

So, I guess, yeah, without
further ado, let's get going.

I'm gonna quickly
remind myself

of what the story idea is.

[LAUGHTER]

So "After the events
of season three,

Dustin intercepts a
cryptic message on Cerebro,

a message he believes is
in fact a communication

from his estranged father.

A concerned Dustin decides
to check in on his dad who

lives in Arizona.

He recruits his
good friend Steve--

and Steve's car, of course--
to assist him in his journey.

"However, when Dustin and
Steve arrive in Arizona,

they find that
Dustin's dad is missing

and has been, in fact,
missing for many months.

Turns out that Dustin's
dad, very much like his son,

loves a good adventure and has
set off to find the legendary

Lost Dutchman's Mine,
the rumored home

of a great treasure.

"Steve and Dustin now set off
to find Dustin's dad as well

as the treasure.

However, they aren't the
only ones looking for this

and they soon find
themselves embroiled

in an adventure involving
thieves, treasure hunters,

and something else,
something lurking

in the dark of the mines,
something not quite human."

The first scene of your
script should probably

be an opening hook.

Right?

We want to grab
those readers, so we

need to do something exciting.

So the scene-- you
know, it should not

be Dustin approaching
Steve about his dad.

It could be Dustin receiving the
cryptic message on his Cerebro.

That's not--

That's not super exciting.

That's not exciting.

If you think about-- think
about our pilot script

for "Montauk" or
"Stranger Things,"

we didn't actually
start with our kids

in D&D. What we started with
was something in the lab.

There's was a fire.

There's a dead scientist.

There's alarms blaring.

We asked a lot of questions.

We didn't give a lot of answers.

So I think we should do
something similar now

in a short hook like that--

Yeah.

--given time constraints.

So we're gonna try to
come up with something

very simple and fast
that hopefully gets

you hooked into this story.

Normally we would have
blue-skied this for weeks.

So we're at a
slight disadvantage,

so don't judge us too much.

Yeah.

But it should be
something exciting.

So it should probably--

Yes.

It should probably--

Well, to me, it's
got to involve--

The dad.

Well, it's got
involved the mine.

Right?

The mine, right.

Because what you want to do,
just like in "Stranger Things,"

we're hinting at where
the story's to go.

Just like "Breaking
Bad," any of this,

we want to give the
audience a sense of,

oh, we're gonna go to
the mundane, normal life

in a second.

But we don't want
normal life right now.

We want something to punch
the audience in the face.

We want to hook that reader.

Whatever, it should be
set in Dutchman's Mine.

And unfortunately,
I believe that this

means it can't be
Dustin and Steve even

though I would love to write--

Because they can't
obviously be at the mine.

Now we could do a flash-forward,
and we have Steve and Dustin

in the middle of something.

I don't love-- we don't love
doing that kind of thing.

It's--

It doesn't-- it's not right.

It's not-- it's not right.

So it does-- it definitely
needs to involve--

I think it should
involve the dad.

It should involve--

Because this is about-- this
is about, you know, a missing--

a missing parent.

So we should maybe hint at--
we could do the moment right

before he went missing--

Exactly.

--like almost like the
last time he was seen,

a hint at something that--

Because if you do that,
and then we cut to Dustin,

and then he gets this
message, suddenly, I'm--

I'm interested.

Right?

I'm like--

MATT DUFFER: So Dustin's
dad the moment right

before he goes missing.

ROSS DUFFER: You know
what would be fun?

Like in that "Raiders
of the Lost Ark,"

you know how you're just
seeing glimpses of Indy--

you're not really getting
a full view of him?

We could do--

Well, I actually
think it would be more

like "Last Crusade."

Because again, like Spielberg
redoes the same thing

in "The Last Crusade--"

Oh, that's right.

--except ends up being
the surprise that it's Indy

as a kid.

Yes.

And so this, it
almost would be fun

if we did sort of
a thing like that

where you think it's Dustin
and, in fact, it's Dustin's dad.

Dustin's dad.

Because Dustin's
actually not a kid anymore.

Right?

No.

So his dad is a little
bit quirky like his son.

So it'd be fun if we
started in a scene

where we thought
that it was Dustin--

Yeah.

--exploring some mine
or exploring some space.

Yeah.

And then we reveal that
it's not Dustin, it's his dad.

Because you could have people
even refer to him as Henderson.

He should just be in the mine.

Right?

MATT DUFFER: Dustin's
dad is in the mine.

ROSS DUFFER: Yes.

We're just sketching
out some ideas here.

So we're kind of--

ROSS DUFFER: Glimpses of him--

we think it's Dustin,
because they're very similar.

Shadow, then big reveal.

This isn't Dustin.

This is Dustin's dad.

I guess we need to
decide if he's by himself

or he's with somebody else.

The only-- the thing I'd say why
we might consider pairing him

with someone is so--

maybe it's scarier
if he's by himself.

But he could-- It might be

Scary.

Because think about,
if we're only writing--

if we're keeping this short,
like a page or something,

he could be on the walkie--

Yeah, but--

--someone.

What about that?

Yeah.

Okay, there.

Because I like someone saying,
"Henderson, do you copy?

Henderson."

Oh, that's great.

That's a good start.

That's a great misdirect.

All right.

"Henderson, do you copy?"

He's working with someone--

We don't know.

--who is not--

It's a disembodied voice.

--there.

We don't cut to them.

Right.

We don't cut there.

And this is a
character who can--

Who can play a role later.

--come back later.

Does he find the
treasures or misdirect where

we think he finds the treasure?

I don't know, but something--
something spooky's got

to happen.

Right?

I think we should
hint that he finds it.

Right?

Or something?

I think you have to
maybe-- maybe you think--

I don't want to see
the full treasure yet.

We're then-- we're then
showing our hands too much.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

But I-- I mean it like--

I wonder if he--

maybe he-- he does have
to discover something

like a secret door
or passageway.

ROSS DUFFER: Yes.

MATT DUFFER: He finds a
secret door or passageway,

something like he thinks
he's made a major discovery.

It's something exciting,
whatever exciting is.

And that becomes spooky.

Well no.

There was an obstacle.

He found something, but
there's a new obstacle.

MATT DUFFER: I think
really it is sounds.

This is where sounds
come into play.

You're hearing something.

Maybe you see the glint of some
eyes, some eyes in the dark,

a shadow-- a large shadowy
shape unlike anything.

And also I'm imagining--

I'm jumping ahead a little bit.

But I'm imagining
the end of this hook

as he's dropped
his walkie and you

have the friend, the treasure
hunter friend just going,

Henderson, do you copy?

Henderson?

And we're just pushing in we're
pushing in on that walkie.

And then we cut out to black.

Something like that?

Good.

Yeah.

Right.

Like, he drops his walkie.

I don't know if we want to
even see that he gets away.

We see a blur of
action, a scream.

Like, we can just come
up with some images.

No, and this thing is
fast, that's what I'm saying.

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah.

This thing, whatever
it is, is fast.

Drops walkie.

We don't see what happens
is what I'm saying.

MATT DUFFER: Yeah, exactly.

We don't see what happens.

MATT DUFFER: You
just hear something.

ROSS DUFFER: We
hear drops walkie.

But we don't to imply he's--

well, I guess--

No, we couldn't.

I mean, I think it's
interesting to imply

that he could have died.

He could've-- he
could've have died.

We don't want
to show him dead.

I'm just--

I don't-- you don't
want to hear, like--

We don't want to see,
like, blood splatter that's

the mine wall--

No, that's what I mean.

--something.

But scream echoing through
the mine and then silence.

You know?

All we hear is the walkie.

And then he's got a ton
of batteries in his vest.

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah.

Like, this is Dustin
fully realized--

Yes.

--is kind of what I think.

What's cute about
that is it gives you

a little bit of insight into
how Dustin became Dustin,

that he's kind of-- even though
his dad is not in his life

anymore, that he's sort of
imitating his dad a little bit.

I think that's sweet.

Not just that he inherited--
so there's something sweet

about that.

Like, he really
looks up to his dad.

Even though obviously they're
estranged and there's some

issue, there's still
something there-- yeah,

that's obviously
connecting them.

Does he have a weapon
or does he have a gun?

You're saying he has a gun?

Yeah.

All right.

[LAUGHS]

I think it's a
little bit exciting.

No, like a-- like a rifle,
like a like a hunting rifle.

But that's just very
unlike Dustin though.

That's why I like it.

Okay.

Because, you know,
it differentiates it.

Something about this-- what
kind of creature is this?

I don't know.

Something lizard-y.

Lizard-y?

Lizard-y.

Oh, my-- that's not
what I was thinking.

Like, you know, scales.

I was thinking more like
a Bigfoot type thing, but--

Well, we don't have to
figure that out though.

Maybe that's
too cliche though.

This is the beauty.

We don't have to figure
it out right now.

And then we cut to black.

And that really is our-- that's
our opening hook right there.

I think that's pretty good.

I'm gonna show you,
what would this look

like in a the
scaffolding outline?

Dustin's dad for the treasure--

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah.

MATT DUFFER: --encounters
a shadowy monster.

He's attacked.

We don't reveal what happens.

That would be the
scaffolding outline.

This is starting
to flesh it out.

And now we'll just take it one--

one more step.

Right, Matt?

Yeah.

So let's talk about
like, what is, like, the--

What is the
opening-- opening shot?

I think it's kind of cool if
we have, you know, over black?

Yeah.

We think it's a black screen.

It's not black.

It's not black.

We're in the mine.

MATT DUFFER: It's-- we're
actually already in the mine.

Yeah.

Mine, pitch black.

Voice over the Black.

"Henderson, do you copy?

Do you copy?"

And then--

ROSS DUFFER: A foot
smashes, maybe.

MATT DUFFER: Like, the
flashlight illuminates.

Mhm.

MATT DUFFER: Like,
it cuts through.

A shadowy figure.

MATT DUFFER: Through the
darkness, revealing the walls.

We'll go into details
there-- dripping, slick.

We're in some sort
of cave or a mine.

Moving towards us, the
voice again, Dustin--

"Henderson, do you copy?"

Maybe it's cutting
out a little bit?

No, no.

He can grab it.

And then close on hand grabs
the walkie, holds it up.

Holds it up, revealing--

We should get
some glimpses here.

MATT DUFFER: Right.

Get glimpses-- curly
hair, a vest filled with--

So I'm gonna say, to
our great surprise--

so it reveals to our great
surprise that this isn't Dustin

at all.

This is-- oh, wait.

We never came up with a name.

Just say Dustin's dad.

MATT DUFFER: This
is Dustin's dad.

And he's, like-- what is he?

He's in his 40s.

MATT DUFFER: We should allow
a little bit of descriptions.

He's exactly what
you would imagine--

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah.

MATT DUFFER:
--Dustin would look--

look like when he grows up.

He's a spitting image of
his son when he grows up.

He wears--

I got--

Oh.

--I'm getting of his stuff in.

Okay.

I want to get glimpses
of him like Indiana Jones.

Right.

[LAUGHS] "Hold
your horses, Petey!"

Whatever this guy's name--

I don't know what
this dude's name is,

but just making this
up as we go along.

He moves down.

He continues to move down
the cave when suddenly he

hears something.

Now we can get our
sound in, something--

a low whistle--

MATT DUFFER: Right.

ROSS DUFFER: --whistling sound.

It sounds like-- he
steps closer to the wall,

to the dead end wall
following that sound.

There's a small
hole or something.

You need them to reach into
something like in that "Temple

of Doom" way.

You know, like a little--

there's a small gap
in the mine wall.

This is where the
wind is coming from.

He takes a deep breath,
then reaches his hand

inside the small gap, grabs hold
of something, turns it, click.

Suddenly, we get a more sounds.

Whoom.

And now I'm going to cap this.

This shit's important.

[LAUGHS] The entire
wall begins to open up.

Now here's the key.

I'm assuming this is
where the treasure is.

We don't want to reveal
the treasure yet.

Yeah, but he could-- he
could communicate an entire--

ROSS DUFFER: We want to
save that for Dustin.

Yeah.

No, his eyes go wide.

Dustin's dad, yeah.

Let his eyes go wide.

He's got-- ah--

Go wide.

We get a nice push in.

And then-- he would get--
he pulls up the walkie.

We need another name--

Petey.

[LAUGHTER]

Petey.

Petey.

Um--

Ah.

Mack?

MATT DUFFER: Mack?

Yeah.

ROSS DUFFER: As
you can see, we're

going into a little
more detail and trying

to get this scene running.

So we're going into probably
more dialogue than we--

than what you normally
would in your final outline.

But this is pretty close to
what your final outline should

look like.

You're not gonna to need
this much dialogue probably.

But Because we're going
straight into script,

we're trying to get a little
more in as quickly as we can.

Right.

So this is a little trick.

So if you have a
character who's talking,

but the dialogue is
not very important,

one thing you can do--

"as Mack continues to try to
get Henderson's attention."

And then I'm gonna
say, "see appendix."

ROSS DUFFER: [LAUGHS]

What that means
is, the dialogue--

We'll write it later.

I'm gonna write it later.

We put it in the back.

And then also, like, if
I put it all down here,

it would just ruin the flow.

It's irrelevant.

It's not important.

It's background noise.

And as you can see here, I'm
sort of working down lower.

This is specifically
a writing partner.

I'm doing stuff later.

Matt's doing stuff earlier.

Right.

Occasionally, we'll screw
each other up or be like, hey,

I'm doing the flashlight beat.

And we work it out.

But I think, you know, for
us, this speeds up the process

if we're-- and also we get
less annoyed at each other

if we're both sort of
working on different areas.

So I'm working on monster
reveal while Matt's doing--

I don't know what he's doing,
presumably something helpful.

Yes.

I don't know.

I think we should
call him Henderson.

Yeah.

I think that's cleaner, yeah.

It's just easier.

This is Mr. Henderson--

ROSS DUFFER: Mhm.

MATT DUFFER: --I'll say.

Again, your final
outline doesn't

have to be quite this detailed.

We're putting in
a lot of dialogue,

and we're doing that
to save a little time.

So we're sort of merging
final outline with script.

You at this stage
may actually just

go ahead and move into Final
Draft, or WriterDuet, or Movie

Magic, or whatever
you want to use.

Matt and I, because
we're collaborating,

we're gonna stick around
in Google Docs for one more

second as we-- as you watch
us just sort of clean this up.

So we've got to add,
like, our scene headings.

We got to add our character
names and capitals.

We've got to do a
little bit of cleanup

to get it to read less
like an outline in now

more like a script.

Okay.

Enter mine.

MATT DUFFER: Why don't
we just say night?

I mean, because--

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah, sure.

MATT DUFFER: Because it doesn't
really matter what time of day

it is.

But--

ROSS DUFFER: And just
say, it's pitch black.

We hear a voiceover the
blackness, over the darkness.

"Henderson, do you copy?

How about we just say voice?

Sure.

Whoosh, a fast light--

Off-screen.

--suddenly cuts through
the darkness revealing--

I'm gonna get rid of our
dashes now, or some of them.

I can say here that
we're in a mine.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ROSS DUFFER: I can do that.

Just say unknown.

That's something
else you can do,

which is, don't
describe your scene.

If you don't want your reader
to know where you are yet.

Sometimes we'll underline
stuff to emphasize.

Boom, hits a dead end--

underline.

Again, it's okay to keep
stuff from the audience,

even if your characters
are seen it be care.

You know?

And you can specify that
with camera, or just you

can be as obvious
as just saying,

we're not gonna reveal
this to the audience yet.

It's okay to say stuff like
that to talk to your reader.

Now for this
action, I'm probably

going to actually leave a
lot of these dashes, which

is something we do.

Again, this is our style.

It doesn't have
to be your style.

But just when it's
something quick, fast,

and we're just getting
glimpses, like really fast cuts,

we usually do dashes.

So we see something-- sharp
teeth, blood, fangs, scales.

That's okay.

I think it's okay to actually
leave it almost, like,

in this outline form.

Because to me,
it's communicating

that we're just
audiences just seeing

these quick little glimpses.

This is gonna be controversial.

I'm gonna say we push
in on the fallen walkie.

There are some screenwriter
or screenwriter

books that say don't write
camera moves into your script.

We wholeheartedly disagree.

I don't think you need to,
like, put them in a lot.

But if it's helping tell the
story, which in this case,

it is for me--

I'm explaining that
the end of this beat

is just going to be slowly
moving in and creeping in

on this walkie, it's important.

I think-- I think it
just helps the audience,

helps the reader see it.

You know what I mean?

And that's essential.

I mean, it's not
really stepping on--

even if you're not going
to be directing it,

it's not really stepping on what
the director is gonna be doing.

They can do something
different if they want,

but it's gonna help the
reader visualize this.

Again, this is our process.

You may already be in
Final Draft at this stage.

But I'm gonna to do this.

I'm gonna copy.

I'm gonna paste.

Boom.

Most of what we wrote,
it's translated it

with some mistakes.

It's thinking decrepit
mine is a character,

which decrepit mine is not
a character with dialogue.

It's a scene heading.

And we're not gonna teach you
how to use these programs.

They're pretty straightforward
once you learn them, so just

take a couple of hours and--

MATT DUFFER: Right.

ROSS DUFFER: You're
gonna to learn it.

And what I'm gonna do now is
I'm going to clean this up

so it all at least works
fully as a screenplay.

If there's a really
exciting scene like this,

just capitalize the whole thing.

It just emphasizes--
it implies that there's

gonna be cacophonous music.

And it's a huge moment.

Why not?

We're trying to use these
words, and the language,

and the sounds just to go
this is something that's

both a visual and also it has--

there's sound going
on and whatever.

Because you've got to
remember, this is a script.

This is not a novel.

And so you're trying to
communicate to the audience of,

hey, when this thing is
actually made in produce

and comes alive, this is
what it's gonna feel like.

You're just trying to get
that across as best you can.

This is gonna be a
huge moment where

crazy stuff is going to happen.

Sharp teeth, claws--

Scales.

Weird lizard scales.

Shimmering lizard scales.

I don't why there's a lizard.

Well, because it
makes me think dragon-y.

Like, you know what I mean?

Guarding the treasure.

I thought you didn't
want it to be a dragon.

I know, but it
could be dragon-y.

[LAUGHS] That makes no sense.

Dragon-y.

Sharp teeth.

Okay.

He also didn't like the
title of "Stranger Things."

So he doesn't-- just, you
have to ignore him sometimes.

So shimmering scales,
claws, bloody fangs.

Normally what we would
do at this stage-

Yeah.

--is, yes.

I will read it through.

I would make any final tweaks.

Then what I like to do
is we would print it out.

There's something
about reading it,

we think, on a
printed page where

you can't make any edits or
tweaks that is very different.

We would read it through.

Then we-- we just keep
doing passages of the scene,

making it better and better.

So let's see how bad
it is or if it's okay.

Scene heading--
enter unknown night.

Pitch black.

We hear strange groaning
sounds, creaks, the drip,

drip of water.

And then a voice echoes
over the darkness.

Voice, filtered-- now I've
added filtered in there

because it's coming
through a walkie-talkie.

"Henderson, do you copy?

Do you copy?"

ROSS DUFFER: Uh.

Whoosh-- a flashlight
suddenly cuts through.

I like--

See, we always do reflect--

I think-- try to limit
how often you use suddenly.

Whoosh-- a flashlight
slices through the darkness,

revealing that we're--

a flashlight now slices
through the darkness--

through the dark--

revealing that we're
in a decrepit mine.

The flashlight continues,
sweeps across the mine walls.

Wooden beams crisscross along--

ROSS DUFFER: Muddy, slimy walls.

MATT DUFFER: Muddy,
slimy, walls.

That's correct.

A silhouetted figure clutches to
the flashlight, slowly moving.

There's some mistakes--
slowly moving towards us.

We get a glimpse of this figure.

They're short with curly
hair, a baseball cap,

old sneakers a vest stuffed
with various useful items.

Again, maybe if we went back,
we could be specific about a few

of those items.

But for now, this works.

I--

I might-- I want
to add batteries.

Okay, then Matt's gonna
go the extra mile here.

A heavy backpack
over his shoulder.

There's a hunting rifle
sticking out of the top.

It sure looks like the Dustin
we've come to know and love.

MATT DUFFER: I
think because that,

we're speaking really
to the audience.

You know?

I want to italicize that.

We like to do
italics to just give

that extra emphasis on
certain words, certain ideas.

Henderson, who loves--

Do you copy?

MATT DUFFER: We haven't
revealed it's Mack yet,

so we should keep it voice.

ROSS DUFFER: More agitated--

"Henderson, do you copy?"

Why do you have that dash there?

I don't know.

Close on the silhouetted hand.

Reaches down and grabs a
walkie and raises it up.

I'm gonna say, get rid of it.

Again, sometimes you're
gonna overwrite this.

So you should--

I don't think we
need close on, yeah.

Grabs a walkie
and raises it up.

It is here that we reveal--

Reveal that our--

--that our
silhouetted figure's--

ROSS DUFFER: Oh, oh.

Reveal our cigaretted figure's
face for the first time.

To our great surprise,
it isn't Dustin.

This is Mr. Henderson, a.k.a.

Dustin's dad, '40s.

He's a spitting
image of his son.

Imagine what Dustin would
look like when he grows up,

and you'll get the picture.

And again, you can talk to the
audience like that sometimes.

You could do it a
lot, like Shane Black.

Or we do it occasionally.

And then you're Henderson.

Right?

MATT DUFFER: "I copy, yeah.

But I'm a bit busy here."

"Busy with what?

We got to get going."

MATT DUFFER: "I
found a new passage,

and I got a good
feeling about this one."

ROSS DUFFER: "Not
holding my breath."

Now this can get more fun.

That dialogue is whatever.

We don't even
know who Mack is.

Again, you will know
who your characters are.

You've blue-skied it.

I don't know who Mack is.

We're just sort of going
with the flow here.

Um.

So Mack is not very defined.

He would be more defined if
we were doing this for real.

MATT DUFFER: Henderson continues
to move deeper into the mine,

swings left down a corridor,
and hits a dead end.

ROSS DUFFER: I'm
gonna underline that.

MATT DUFFER: Underscore,
underline that.

ROSS DUFFER: Yeah,
just to emphasize

that's an end of a beat sort of.

MATT DUFFER: And we got a
"Shit, shit, shit, shit, shit."

Dustin says shit a lot, so I
like that his dad does too.

This is--

ROSS DUFFER: And then Mac is--

MATT DUFFER: --implying that
he gets it from his dad.

"Shit, shit, shit, shit, shit."

ROSS DUFFER: "Shit, what"

MATT DUFFER: "Dead end."

ROSS DUFFER: "I'm shocked.

Let's please go?"

That's not very good line.

Is it?

I don't think we need
a line for Mack here.

MATT DUFFER: Yeah, yeah.

I don't think so either.

Dead end.

ROSS DUFFER: When
in doubt, delete.

MATT DUFFER: Henderson turns to
leave when he hear something,

a low whistling sound.

I'm gonna say, it
sounds like wind.

It's a lot of sound.

I just say wind.

So again, you're gonna
be overwriting it.

He steps up to the dead end.

There's a small gap in the wall.

This is where the
wind is coming from.

He takes a deep breath,
then reaches his hand

inside the small gap and
grabs hold of something.

Turns it.

Click.

This is a little too
derivative of "Indiana Jones,"

if I have to say.

Maybe we can come up with
something more specific

when we have more time.

So it turns it.

Click.

Then whoom, the wall
begins to open up.

Henderson's eyes go wide.

Whatever he sees shocks him.

He steps forward into
a mysterious chamber.

I'm going to say
continuous here,

because we're not cutting.

So continuous.

His flashlight reflects a
shimmering gold light back

onto his awed face.

We don't see what's
causing the shimmer--

misspelled shimmer--
but whatever it is,

it makes Henderson
tremble with excitement.

In fact, he's so excited
he can hardly speak.

"Mack, I-- I think I found it."

ROSS DUFFER: "Found what?

MATT DUFFER: "The jackpot."

ROSS DUFFER: "Holy shit.

You pulling my leg?

You better not be
pulling my leg."

Before Henderson
can respond, shoom.

I think shoom is maybe better.

Shoom, his flashlight cuts out.

It's very dark now.

Again, it's okay to be simple
and just obvious sometimes.

More shits.

But lucky for Henderson,
he has his batteries

on his vest just like his son.

He starts to quickly replace
the batteries in his flashlight

when we hear a strange guttural
sound, something not human,

animalistic, but unlike
any animal we know.

And it's coming from
somewhere in this room.

Henderson spins around,
but the room is dark.

He can't see where
the sound came from.

Again, we're really
breaking this up.

We're doing a lot of
spaces just to get this--

if it's all clumped
as one dialogue,

your reader may just
sort of glaze over it

and flip to the next page.

MATT DUFFER: Very
quietly, very slowly,

he removes the hunting
rifle from off his shoulder.

He aims it in the
direction of the sound.

Then he reaches out with his
thumb and cocks the hammer.

Click.

So we've done the
David Koepp thing

where we've spread it out.

Because you really want
to emphasize that--

[CLICK]

--you can start to see
how quiet it's becoming.

Yeah.

We're just zeroing
in on the sound.

MATT DUFFER: Another
roar, this time

from another part of the room.

We're calling it
room and chamber,

so we'll go through and decide
what we want to call it.

Henderson spins again.

Another roar.

This came from his
left, then his right.

And then whoosh.

And again, breaking that up,
like Koepp did in "Panic Room."

it's just like-- it keeps
people turning that page.

Just keep reading it.

It's a fast read.

And then here's where we went
to an all-caps saying, whoom,

like we're shouting at you.

Whoom, something shadowy in
large lunges at Henderson.

Bang, Henderson's
rifle goes off.

In the light of
the muzzle flashes,

we see a blur of action.

Henderson thrown to the ground.

His walkie scattering
to the rocky ground.

We see glimpses of our monster.

Sharp teeth, shimmering
scales, claws, bloody fangs

reaching for Henderson's neck.

I'm gonna be more
specific there--

neck.

He lets out a long, pained
scream and then silence.

We push in on the fallen walkie
as a panicked Mack continues

to call out for his friend.

ROSS DUFFER:
"Henderson, do you copy?

Do you copy?

MATT DUFFER: No answer.

Only ominous silence.

And then right here--

I'm going to be a
little dramatic here.

[LAUGHS]

MATT DUFFER: Right here, we cut
to black and then, you know.

And that's just sort of a--

MATT DUFFER: Titles!

ROSS DUFFER: Titles.

And that's sort of a
three-page opening hook.

And again, we would
keep honing it.

We don't really know who
these characters are yet, so--

I think the biggest thing that
needs improvement when reading

it through is just a little
bit more specific about this--

you know, what unlocks
this mysterious chamber.

Yeah.

I think we can be
more interested in there

and I think we can
improve the dialogue

so you a little
bit more understand

who these characters.

We are assuming we're going to
meet this Mack character when

Dustin and Steve go to Arizona.

He needs to be
very interesting.

So he needs to be really
interesting and specific,

and he's not right now.

He's just kind of-- he's just
kind of a wall for Dustin's dad

to bounce off of.

So those are the things that
we would probably work on.

So I think, you know--
we did that very quickly.

But hopefully what
you can see is,

it started out very
broad, very messy,

a lot of spitballing of ideas.

And slowly, it formed into
something much more coherent.

And then we just
kept adding details,

cleaning it up, cleaning it up.

And what you're seeing here
at the end of this process,

we've got a hook that
isn't bad, but it's

gonna continue to improve.

So we're gonna talk more
about these characters.

How can we improve that?

How can we come up with
something more original

than just, you know,
him reaching into a hole

and turning something,
which we've seen before.

So we're gonna
continue to go and just

try to make this even
better and more original.

But what we've got now is
a pretty good first pass

at this scene.

Okay, so that was stressful.

So we did that.

[LAUGHS]

And [LAUGHS] we'd like
you to do the same thing.

You don't have to do it within
the sort of time that we had.

What you want to do is you
want to take the opening

scene, your opening hook.

And we want you to take it
from the final outline--

The final outline.

--to script stage, very
much just like what we did.

Read it through.

Do another pass, do
another pass until you're

really happy with it.

And remember to focus on
those elements of description,

action, dialogue.

And you're just gonna keep
honing it and keep working it

until you feel
really good about it.

And again, the opening hook, you
know, for the "Stranger Things"

pilot script, it was
only about a page.

For the unofficial Dustin and
Steve spinoff we just wrote,

that was about three pages.

Anywhere from really
one to five pages

should do the trick unless you
want to get very elaborate,

and do a "Raiders
of the Lost Ark,"

and have a nice 10-plus
page opening hook.

That's fine too.

That's fine too.

Or keep it simple like we did
for the pilot of "Stranger

Things."

It depends.

Whatever your story dictates,
go with your gut there but good

luck.

MATT DUFFER: So once you get
to the stage in the process

where you have your
script, which is huge--

you've overcome
this massive hurdle.

You've done all this work.

But the question is,
now, who's gonna read it?

How do you get
anyone to read it?

This is probably the question
we get asked the most, which is,

what now?

What do I do now?

And, you know, as we've
kind of talked about,

previously, we had no
connections, no Hollywood

connections.

Our dad was not in the
business, none of that.

So if you have that, great.

Good for you.

You're in the door already.

You have someone who you
can give the script to.

But most of us-- you
know, most of you

probably don't have
Hollywood connections

and it is difficult. So
it's like, what do you do?

You have the script, this
great script that works.

Now, what?

All right.

So you have-- like Matt says,
you have this amazing script.

So the trick is
now to get it read.

So I think a lot
of times people go,

oh, well, I'm gonna just
send this to Netflix

or I'm gonna send to Amazon or
I'm going to send it to HBO.

And, unfortunately,
it's not that simple.

If-- if you do end up somehow
getting your script to Netflix

or Amazon or HBO or Apple--

Meaning, like, just-- if
you just send it to them

in the mail.

If you send it
in the mail, you--

you throw it over the fence,
whatever you do or you find

someone's email, however
you do it, don't do that,

because they're just
gonna throw it out.

So it's really just
a waste of your time.

So what we're gonna
talk about now is,

how do you get it to
Netflix or HBO or Amazon?

And the answer to
that is you're gonna

need an agent or a manager.

Why do you need
an agent or manager?

Basically they're your conduit
into the whole, like, Hollywood

system.

Right?

So they are able to get your
script out to producers.

And producers will
be able to get

your script to
studios and networks,

such as, like, Netflix, right?

For example.

Without an agent or
a manager, no one's

gonna take you seriously.

Unless you're
pretty established,

you can't, you know,
represent yourself.

OK?

You're gonna need to find one
of these agents or managers.

Sometimes people ask, you know,
I'm still a little confused

about it, the difference
between an agent or a manager.

Managers tend to
represent fewer people.

So it's a little
bit more personal.

You can kind of call them
up, you know, on a Saturday

at 3:00 PM.

I mean, I can do that
with my agent now,

which is a little weird.

And agents tend to
represent a lot more people.

But they work at a really large
company, such as CAA, where,

you know-- and they have--

the good-- the advantage of
working with an agent or big--

at a bigger agency
is that they have

a lot of other connections
within that agency, right?

Like big name actors,
big name directors

who they could help-- they
could attach your script to.

And that could help sell it.

So it doesn't really matter
at this-- at this point.

You just need someone
to represent you.

Someone-- the truth is it's
actually a relatively small

town.

Everyone knows
everybody, generally.

So the key is just
gonna be to find someone

that responds to
your script and that

can get it in the hands
of the right people.

And again, all of these
people know the right people.

So you just gotta
get it in their hands

and they gotta like your script,
which seems simple, right?

So OK.

I can't send my script to
Amazon or Netflix or Apple.

So I'm just gonna send it
to some management companies

or agencies.

Unfortunately, it's
also not that simple.

They're also gonna most likely
throw your script in the trash

and not even look at it.

And this sort of becomes a
bit of a chicken and the egg

situation.

There's a bit of a
conundrum here of like--

what you're gonna ask, which
is a completely valid question,

which is, well, if I need
an agent to sell my script,

but my agent-- an agent
won't read my script,

how do I get an agent?

And that is the most complicated
part of this entire process.

And I wish there was a better
system in order for this

to work.

But we're gonna at least tell
you how we managed to do it.

And-- and,
ultimately, you know,

I was kinda saying earlier, it's
very-- you know, it's hard--

it's especially hard if
you don't have connections,

because the truth
is you need-- you--

you need connections, right?

So if you have connections,
if you're coming out here

and people already
have connections,

they have an advantage over
you in terms of-- now, listen,

if their script stinks,
their script stinks.

It's not gonna help them.

But so, hopefully,
your advantage

is you have a
really good script.

That's the best
thing that you can

have going for you is a really
good script, so that when you

do find-- make that connection,
you hand it to them,

the script is gonna
work for them.

What do you do if you
don't have connections?

So we didn't have connections.

We were at-- we-- we
were going to film school

out here at Chapman
University in Orange County.

We were close-ish to LA.

We knew we needed
to make connections.

We needed to meet people
who were making stuff

within the industry.

And so we just, every
summer, and actually

even throughout the
year, we interned.

There's two of us.

Again, this is the advantage
of having two people.

But you can do it
yourself, obviously.

Which is-- we-- we
divided and conquered.

We're like, oh, we
should-- it's two of us.

We should take advantage of the
fact that we're twins and just,

like, spread out all over town.

We did every internship
we could-- could find

and we met as many
people as we could.

We did try to put in-- you know,
do a lot of good work there.

I mean, it's not the most
fun thing in the world,

these internships.

In our case, it was work to
help get coll-- college credit.

And so I guess what
you might question--

you might ask then is, OK,
so I got one of these--

I-- I found an internship.

And so now, what do I do?

I just hand this brilliant
script that I've written--

I hand it to someone
in the company

and they're gonna read it an
they're gonna get me an agent.

It's also not that simple.

What you really need to
do, like Matt's saying is,

you just gotta--

you gotta put in the work.

We-- we made copies of scripts.

We fetched coffees.

I delivered presents to people.

I did Christmas stuff.

I-- it's-- and some of the
time, I was given a fun task.

Like I'd be like,
here, read this script

and let me know what you think.

And you do.

And you slowly start
to earn people's trust.

I was working at a
company called Appian Way.

And my boss there--

one of my bosses there
was Franklin Leonard.

You might know now, if-- if
you're into screenwriting,

he runs something
called the Blacklist.

But back then, it was--
and it's still, part of it

is, today is it just a list
of people's favorite scripts

they read this year
within Hollywood.

So the point is Franklin
was a great boss.

And you know, I
did work with him.

And you start to earn trust.

And I remember, I told him about
this show called "The Wire."

And I got him hooked on it.

And he became obsessed.

And just little things
like that just--

again, just like with
your scripts, baby steps.

You start to earn people's--

You didn't-- you didn't hand
Franklin the script the day you

walked in there.

No.

Like, he'll never look
at you again, probably.

I think this was
probably nine--

at least after 9, 10 months--

Right.

--of working there.

And I go, hey, here's a script.

If you happen to
have time, you know,

I'd love your thoughts on it.

Franklin read the script.

And again, we wrote
this script in college.

It's a pretty messy script.

It has a lot of issues.

It has a pretty strong
first 5 to 10 pages.

Whatever it was that
convinced Franklin,

he thought that there
was a promise in this.

And he sent it to
a couple of agents.

They also thought there
was promise in it.

We took those meetings.

And we had in--

through that, we were
able to get agents.

So the point is, you have
to find your Franklin.

It may not be
through internships.

It may be-- there may be
through some other way.

But the key is you need someone
to hand your script to an agent

and say, hey, this is good.

If you just cold email,
cold call, it's unlikely.

There are other avenues.

Franklin's Blacklist is one.

There's--

There's competitions.

There's competition.

Some of those are valid.

Some of those are just
trying to steal your money.

So you have to be careful.

But generally, there are
ways to get your script out.

The most helpful thing and the
fastest way, in our opinion,

is to come out here
and meet people.

That may not be possible
for you, in which case

it is gonna have to be an online
thing and it's gonna help.

If your script is really good,
hopefully, it'll find its way.

But if there's any way that
you can meet people out here,

that is probably the
fastest and cleanest way.

It was within-- it's
still gonna take time.

It was a couple of years
of interning and working

before we were able
to even get our script

in the hand of someone who
knew an agent, much less meet

an agent.

So it was just-- it is a process
and it is gonna take some time.

So if you can get out
here, that would be great.

And it can be-- it can
be discouraging and just--

just as you're writing a
script, it can be frustrating.

So, like, just to show
the other side of it.

And I think I was just
as good of an intern,

if not a better intern
than my brother.

Right?

OK?

So-- and I put in
about a year and a half

at this company that
shall not be named.

Right?

And I-- and, you know, I think
I did solid-- good, solid work.

And I hand the same exact
script over to them saying, will

you read it?

Of course.

Nothing happened.

OK?

Like, so-- it
didn't go anywhere.

They didn't send it to
an agent or a manager.

Right?

They didn't help.

So this is why don't bank
on one single person or one

single company.

Spread out.

If it's just you, just--
then-- then, you know,

you need to spread
out and go to a bunch

of different internships.

Don't bank on any one
person or any one company.

And-- and just try to meet
as many people as you can.

Or become an assistant.

That's another way.

There are a lot of avenues.

But the most important
one is trying

to meet people that
have connections

within the industry.

So you make connections.

Someone knows an
agent or a manager.

They get your script to them.

They like it.

They go, hey, we want
to represent you.

So then, what happens?

And, you know, at that
point, we're like,

you know, we made it.

We did it.

We did it, mom and dad.

Like we got an
agent in Hollywood.

I mean, we thought
we were pretty cool.

I mean, being
from North Carolina,

all we knew about agents
or managers at the time

was from the HBO
show "Entourage."

That's literally all we knew.

But it's, unfortunately,
not that simple.

So we had this script--
this script called "Origin,"

the-- the--

I'm infected.

--infected, you know, gonna
die in two hours script,

which was kind of, in honesty,
a little bit of a mess, right?

Ross said good 5, 10-- first
5, 10 pages, which is cool.

The rest of it
kinda falls apart.

We weren't outlining.

OK?

So that's why it's
a mess, by the way.

So why-- this is why
you need to outline.

So what happens next?

The agents then send
it out to producers

who they think would be a
good fit for the project.

And then, they'll see which
producers are interested.

Then, we met with those
producers who were interested.

And then, you just
hear them out and you

see which ones seem to get
you and get the project

and seem genuinely
passionate about them.

Pick a producer.

That's a key step is
picking your producer.

And then, that producer,
along with your agent,

will then send it out-- when
they feel the time is right,

they'll send it out to studios.

And that was a film.

So that went out to
all the film studios.

In this case, you know--

Warner Brothers, Paramount--

Yeah.

That's what they--

Universal.

So it went out to
all these companies.

And then, they read it.

And we're like, here we go.

And then, we just-- then,
we're just waiting for the big

paycheck and we're waiting
for someone to buy it.

And then, that did not happen.

Which happens all
the time, by the way.

So scripts will go out wide--
they call it going out wide.

You go out with the script.

And for whatever reason,
no one's gonna option it

and no one's gonna buy it.

I mean, I think it did
actually come sort of close.

It was like almost
there, not quite.

And I really do think if we had
outlined it, that would've sold

and-- and our, you
know, career trajectory

would've been really different.

But it didn't.

But it didn't.

But it didn't end up selling.

But that's OK,
because what the key

was we started knowing nobody.

We came out here.

We-- in turn, we met some
people, like Franklin.

But, again, our-- our knowledge
of people in Hollywood

was pretty small.

We then got our agent.

So we met some agents.

And then, once it
went out, suddenly,

even though the
script didn't sell,

we were taking all
these meetings.

We felt like we
were in "Entourage."

We're meeting these--
some big-time producers.

Were meeting over with studios.

And it felt like, OK.

Suddenly, we're-- the door
has opened and we're into this

world.

We haven't made a penny
yet, but at least we're

starting to make connections.

And, again, once you know people
and you know the right people,

the key is just gonna be to
write a script that works.

And unfortunately,
"Origin," didn't fully work,

which is why it didn't sell.

So I'm-- you know,
it is what it is.

But it got us in the door.

And that's the key.

And I think with
your first script--

listen, I hope it sells.

I hope it goes out and
sells in a bidding war.

But if not, if you can get
it to open that door for you

and get into the world,
that is a huge first step.

And it was a huge
step for us, in terms

of getting to where we are now.

Once you have that
agent, they're gonna send--

the first thing they're gonna
do is they're gonna send it out

to producers.

And they're gonna pick
the producers they think

are a good fit for your
project, who they think might

be interested in your project.

Some of the producers are just
gonna pass on your project.

You're gonna get
rejected lots of times.

This is not something you
should be upset about.

These producers
may just be busy.

They may not have even read it,
they're just not interested,

whatever.

What you want to be
interested in is--

are the producers who liked your
project, who want to meet you,

who want to produce
unit movie or your--

or your television show, right?

So I think then what you
do is you go and you meet--

or nowadays, maybe you
Zoom, with all the producers

who liked your project.

And then, you hear them out.

And they're gonna
kind of actually--

this is kind of a cool
stage, in where they're sort

of pitching themselves to you.

It's not-- it's, like, kind of
a little bit of a low stress

thing for you.

You already know that they're
interested in your project.

And they're gonna talk
about their visions

for, not just your project,
but for where it could end up.

And they're gonna try
to get you all excited.

So how do you pick
a good producer?

I think this is one of those
things where you really just

have to trust your gut
and you have to go with--

I wouldn't necessarily
go with what seems

on paper like the right idea.

I think, you know,
Ross and I had

made that mistake in the past.

I think the most
important thing to do

is just who seems to
understand your material, who

seems to understand
you, who seems actually,

genuinely the most
passionate about it.

Like, you want someone who's,
like, really, really excited

about it and who gets it.

I mean, we met with a
lot-- you know, this is--

talking about
"Stranger Things" now.

But when we first
sent that script out

and we had a meeting with
a handful of producers,

there were some who clearly--
you know, right away, we're

like, well, this
is not a good fit.

Because they were going, listen,
I really like this script.

It's amazing.

You know, I love it so much.

Can we remove the kids?

Like, let's just
make it-- because

and, again, the producer's
goal is to sell the material.

They see kids and it's not
a kids show, immediately,

that's a red flag for them.

They haven't seen a script
like that sell, I don't know,

for a really long time.

So they're like, this is gonna
be very difficult to sell.

We knew immediately,
anyone's telling

us to remove the kids from the
show is wrong for the project.

We actually even
had the opposite.

We had people go, let's
just make it a kid show,

remove the adult characters.

We're like, well,
that's also wrong.

Right?

That's-- that's not right.

That means you don't get--
they don't get what we're

trying to do for the show.

But eventually, you'll
meet the producer who,

they say all the right things,
they know the same references,

they love the same
movies you do,

they know exactly
what you want to do.

Right?

Oh, there's another example.

Right?

We had a producer we were with.

And they said, when
you're pitching this,

I love the script-- they
didn't want us to change

the kids or any of that.

But they said, when
you're going out

and you're pitching this to
these television studios,

they don't understand
movies or no movies.

So you can't reference movies
when you're pitching your show.

And I was like, I don't--

I literally-- I
was like, I don't

know how to pitch
"Stranger Things"

and not be able
to reference "ET."

And I was like, do-- do
television studio executives--

they haven't seen "ET?"

Like it just didn't
make any sense to me.

So that was--

A red flag.

--a red flag.

And we ended up walking
away from that producer.

So at the end of the day,
you know, trust your gut.

Go with who gets you and
who gets your material.

That's how you know-- and
who's gonna support your vision

and support you specifically.

And that's how you
make your decision.

So you've settled
on a producer.

So what's gonna happen now
is the producer's gonna go,

well, I think the
best course of selling

it is to go to these
companies or these studios.

Now, we're starting
to get closer

to that original idea, which is
like, how do I get to Netflix

or Amazon or whatever?

Well, now, that's
where we're headed.

So they might say, I think
this is a great fit for Netflix

and Amazon or whoever.

And so-- but the trick
is, with those companies,

you're not gonna
just send your script

and they're gonna just
buy it and that's it.

What you're gonna need to
do when you're devel-- doing

the TV shows, you're gonna
need to develop a pitch,

so you can give them a
sense of not just the pilot,

but you're trying to give them a
sense of what the entire season

of that show is like.

So a pitch is an
elaboration, essentially, on--

on the pilot.

So what these studio
executives are gonna get,

they're gonna have
read your script.

So if they like your
script and you're

invited to go meet with them,
that's a really good sign.

That means they liked
your script, most likely.

Not always the case, actually.

But usually-- usually, it means
that they liked your script.

And at that point,
basically, you want to--

and how long is
it pitch usually?

I mean, I guess--

Ours was, like,
15 minutes maybe.

15, 20 minutes.

Right?

You don't wanna be too long.

You don't wanna feel
like, you know--

you don't wanna be
long-winded, looking

at their clock-- you know,
looking at their watch,

whatever.

That's a bad sign, if they're
looking at their watches.

So you wanna be
brief, to the point,

and all you're doing with
the pitch is telling them,

essentially, how
awesome your show is

and how cool it's gonna be
and what's cool about it.

And you're gonna tell them
all the things that weren't--

aren't maybe evident
in-- in the pilot.

Yes.

And I think, probably, the
best way to explain, you know,

exactly what a pitch is to
show you what the pitch was

for-- for "Montauk"
or "Stranger Things."

I, mean we wrote out the
whole thing and memorized it.

You definitely don't
wanna go into a pitch

and read off a sheet
of paper, like that.

I mean, that's one way
to not sell a show.

I think this is an area
where a lot of writers

get really nervous,
because we're not--

we're not actors, right?

It's not-- and it's
kind of annoying

that, actually, you
even have to do this,

you have to go,
like, sell yourself.

Because writers tend to,
like, hide from other people.

I'm not-- and, you know--
you don't-- you're not--

you're not good at boasting.

But that's why the
best thing to do

is do what you do
best, which is write.

Write your pitch down.

You're not winging this.

You don't wing it.

Right?

You probably don't have
that-- if you're like us,

you don't have that
skill set, right?

To just sort of be
improvising it on the day,

you're gonna get
nervous or whatever.

The best thing to do,
write out your pitch,

memorize it, and just-- and
just spit it out on the day

and try to make it feel like
you're coming up with it

on the spot, but you won't be.

What happens is-- so
you'll go into a room.

And, you know, you'll
pitch your heart out.

And then, they go "Thank you."

And you leave.

And then, you just wait for
a phone call from your agent.

They're not gonna
follow up with you,

they're gonna follow
up with your agent.

So if it's bad news,
you don't have--

you hear-- you're kind
of hearing it secondhand.

If it's good news, you're
hearing it second hand.

And, yeah, good news,
you're hearing-- right.

Whatever.

You're ne-- you're never
gonna hear directly from them.

That's what the
agent or your manager

is for, to communicate directly
with the studio or the network.

So you just wait.

Sometimes you gotta wait--
some day-- sometimes

you'll hear that day.

Sometimes you'll-- you'll hear
stories about people being--

you know, they're
buying it in the room.

I don't know.

That never happened to me.

I guess that does
happen to some people.

Or it'll be the
next day, sometimes

it'll be three days, whatever.

But I wouldn't panic.

We had no idea when
we were walking out

that they would buy it or not.

We-- they just-- it was
just total poker face.

We had no sense of how
much they liked it or not.

And we were all-- we were
just-- we were terrified.

So you really are just waiting
for your agent to call you.

And then, hopefully your
agent is nicer than ours,

because he called us
and said, bad news.

They didn't like it.

And then, he said, I'm kidding.

They're buying this story.

And that was really mean.

It gave us a heart attack.

Yeah.

[DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING]

MATT DUFFER: The
best way to explain

how we pitch is just to show
you the "Stranger Things" pitch.

You're gonna be talking
about a lot of stuff

and a lot of stuff that was
in your blue sky document that

maybe just didn't make
it into the pilot.

For instance, in your pilot
script of "Stranger Things,"

we talk about how
Hopper's lost a daughter.

We don't really
talk about how that'

where he's going from there.

That A to B, we
don't talk about.

We don't know from
the pilot script

that Mike and Eleven are gonna
have this innocent relationship

and sort of have a first love.

We don't get into that or
that Jonathan and Nancy are

gonna end up teaming up.

So what you're able
to do is you're

able to elaborate
a little bit more.

Now, don't get all
too carried away.

This is 15 to 20
minutes, so you're

gonna have to be
very particular.

You're gonna have
to pick your best

ideas and your simple ideas.

You could definitely
lose people really quick.

If you start going too deep
into mythology or whatever,

you're gonna lose people.

But you should
touch on mythology.

We touch on what this
other dimension is.

We talk about inspirations.

We talk a little bit about
music, even, and tone.

You're just sort of hitting
these big bullet points of what

the show is both gonna
feel like and your

giving a sense of what
the story arcs could be.

And then even at the end,
you're talking a little bit

about what could be beyond this,
if it happens to be successful.

This is not a document
that we've really

shared with anyone.

We didn't even share
it with Netflix.

MATT DUFFER: You know, we
broke it down for ourselves,

starting with an introduction.

We talked about, did you
see our look book trailer?

It's probably clear
to you that now we're

gonna get into a
look book later.

We were movie nerds
growing up, so we

started to make it a
little personal immediately

and talk about why we're
passionate about this material.

We talked about going
to movies with our dad,

and how we loved
this growing up,

and how we then fell in love
with TV with "The Sopranos."

And we talk about a little
bit why we think it's unique,

and why there isn't
a show like that,

and why we would like
to see a show like this.

And then, if you look
at this, actually, we

talk about a lot of
things we had you kind

of blue sky or thinking about.

I mean, we talk about--

ROSS DUFFER: Inspiration.

MATT DUFFER: --inspiration,
so the kind of movies

that inspired us.

ROSS DUFFER: And you can
see here, it says, "ordinary

meets the extraordinary."

It's bolded, that's how
important we thought it was.

We did not bold
this for this class.

This was bolded for
the Netflix pitch.

But again, we make
it personal again.

Because then, we say right after
that, "When we were growing up,

we were just regular kids
living in the suburbs of North

Carolina, playing
Dungeons and Dragons

with our nerdy friends."

And we're saying this is why
this show is meaningful to us.

We're making it personal
for them, again.

So I think that is important.

Then we get into setting.

ROSS DUFFER: Setting,
for us, was not

the most important
aspect of this storyline.

And we summarize
it very quickly,

talking about how Montauk is
this close-knit seaside town.

And we talk about Amity in Jaws.

We don't spend a
lot of time here.

No.

And then we get into mythology.

So, it's funny I'm reading this.

Some of this is
not even accurate.

But we basically get
into the Montauk project

and why we're into
the Montauk project.

And why we love conspiracy.

MATT DUFFER: And why
we love conspiracy.

Again, we're making it personal.

ROSS DUFFER: We have
these, again, bolded lines.

And again, this isn't
for MasterClass.

This was stuff we had
bolded, just as a--

I think, even though
we memorized it,

we wanted to be like, you've
got to hit this moment,

you've got to emphasize
this because it's

so important, which
is, a doorway or tears

open to another dimension.

We talk about these entities.

We realized multiple
entities was more entities

than we needed.

And it became one, which
was the Demogorgon.

And we end this with saying,
"This supernatural kidnapping

sets our story into motion."

And I think one
reason that's bolded

and we thought was
so important was

this is going back way,
way, way back to early

in the lesson when
we said, big idea.

And our big idea
coming out of prisoners

was, what if we do a show about
a supernatural kidnapping?

So we wanted to make
sure that they understood

that at the core of
this, we're gonna

have a lot of crazy
ideas, other dimensions,

and multiple entities--

Girls with side-eye powers.

Some psychic powers.

Yeah.

Well, listen, if you're
getting-- just think about it,

at the end of the day,
supernatural kidnapping.

And then we move into
talking about the structure.

And these are really the arcs
that we were talking about.

The story arcs.

The story arcs that
we were talking about.

We were calling them generations
slash structure here.

We're talking about
the drive, of course,

which is what happened to Will.

How do we get will back?

Again, very easy for
them to understand.

And then we talk about, there's
gonna be three main storylines.

And we're going to
break them into three

different generations, the
kids, the teens, the adults.

And then, we also
bolded, "We like

to think of each of
these generations

as existing in a
different '80s universe."

Well, and I think it also
gives them a shortcut, right,

too?

Yeah.

Because saying, the adults
are in a Spielberg movie.

The teens are an
'80s horror film,

like "Halloween" or
"Nightmare On Elm Street."

And then the kids are
in a Stephen King novel,

like "Stand By Me" or "It."

And I think, again,
these aren't--

these are references
that we were

assuming that they would be able
to understand and relate to.

And then we step through each
of those generations for them.

So we're like, okay, now we're
gonna talk about the adults.

Yeah, we actually
say this, look.

"Now we will walk
through the storylines.

First, we have our adults."

It's very simple.

Again, very simple, clean,
simple introductions to this.

You don't want them to get lost.

If you start going into too much
detail, they're gonna just--

they're gonna zone
out, and they're

gonna start thinking about their
next meeting or whatever it is.

Just keep it focused and clean.

And then,
basically, what we do

is we talk about all the
major adult characters.

When we go through
each character,

we go through Hopper,
and what we're doing

is we're talking a little
about who Hopper is.

We're talking about
the story arc, which

is something in your blue sky
that you've come up with that A

to B. And we're talking
about his story arc, A to B.

And then we're doing
the same with Joyce.

So we're just hitting
those huge, big points.

So hopefully they understand
who this character is,

where they go in the story,
and where they end up.

But I think that, again,
you're staying really broad.

If you look at this
outline we've got,

it's a short paragraph for
each of these characters.

And then we sort of
summarize, at the end,

you know, this is
another bolded thing.

We say, "What really unites
the adult storylines,

emotionally and thematically,
is that both Hopper

and Joyce her parents
who feel like they

have failed their children.

Specifically, they feel they
have failed them because

of mistakes in their past.

But over the course
of the show, they

find a way to
forgive themselves,

to accept their mistakes, and
to move on with their lives.

So it's starting to
talk about what is gonna

unite Joyce and Hopper here.

We're just doing the same
structure that we did with

the adults with the
teams, which is we say,

"They've got adulthood
looming, and it's terrifying,

which is represented by this
'monster' that is stalking

them.

And that's, again,
just telling Netflix,

hey, this isn't just kids
running away from monsters.

There's a little
more depth to it.

So that can be a helpful thing.

And then we go to the kids.

And it was an obvious choice by
us to end with the kids last.

We knew that was our stro--
like, really strong, probably

our most interesting storyline.

So we wanted to
end on a high note.

That's why we structured
it in the way that we did

or I'm imagining that it is.

We talk about Mike, he's still
got that birthmark on hi face--

That's right.

--which leads to insecurity.

And then we describe this
storyline of him and Eleven.

And we say, "We now have
this E.T. fish-out-of

water storyline.

And with that, almost,
they get it, right?

They get how it's gonna
work with Mike and Eleven.

And we kind of step through
some of the cool sequences

that the kids might have--

these fun sequences
they're gonna

have with this psychic girl
who's suddenly living with them

and how she's gonna learn how
to live in the real world.

And we talk about all that.

And we say little ideas like,
"she levitates their Dungeons

and Dragon figures."

Now, in the show,
she does, I think,

the Millennium Falcon toy.

Which is a better idea.

But again, it's giving
them a taste of, hey,

this journey's gonna be fun.

This is one of the things
that could happen along

this journey.

Once we went through each
generation and all the major

characters, we then went into--
we started talking about how

they're gonna combine.

We labeled this Finale.

We said, there's gonna be a big
set piece, where the government

agents come to Mike's house.

Yeah.

This is actually pretty
accurate, still, for the show.

Yeah, it is, yeah.

They come to the Mike's house.

That leads to the bike
chasing, whatever we say.

So that moment, we
knew that was gonna

be an exciting
moment in the show

and that whatever happened
there was gonna lead all three

of these storylines to collide.

We're not specific about
how they collide here.

ROSS DUFFER: No.

We just said there's gonna
be a huge event of the house.

And then we just wrote, "This
is when our three generational

storylines merge,
adults, teens, and kids."

And then we talk about a little
bit what we were telling you

not too long ago, which
is, "They each have

a key piece of
knowledge, the adults

have learned where
Will is hiding,

the kids have learned about
this portal beneath Camp Hero,

and the teens have learned how
to defeat the Entities," which

will become the Demogorgon.

"They now have what
they need to free Will."

And then we talk a little
bit about the climax.

We talk about--

But again it's
like five sentences.

--how they're going to-- yeah,
that they're going to rescue

Will and how Eleven is gonna
use her powers to help close

the rift and end the horror.

So that was us running through
the entire series for them.

Again, it's a really
zoomed-out view of it.

ROSS DUFFER: And then, we
get into franchise, briefly.

MATT DUFFER: And I think,
initially, this franchise thing

didn't exist in
the original pitch.

But it was something we
kept getting asked about,

so we were like, we
better write down

some good answers for this.

And a lot of this we
already went over,

in terms of, we started
to talk about, listen, we

want this story to be complete.

We want them to rescue Will.

We don't want them to rescue
Will and then lose Will again

and season 2 is about
rescuing will again,

because we knew that
would be boring.

So we knew it would
revolve around--

revolve around what happens
with Will when he's returned.

"How has his time in this
other dimension affected him."

That's what we wrote.

He's going to be
psychologically damaged.

He's gonna be haunted by
very intense nightmares.

How do you come back
from something like that.

And ultimately, that is
what season 2 is about.

It's like, how
does Will come back

from the events of season 1?

We've got 15, 20 minutes,
and so we've got to be,

every word counts here.

And you've got to be
very careful with not

falling into too much detail.

[DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING]

So in addition to the
pitch and in addition

to that verbal
pitch that we did,

we sent a look book prior
to our meetings for them.

And, basically, a look
book, this is optional.

This is something you
definitely do not have to do.

You have to do
the pitch, but you

don't have to do the look book.

But what we like
about the look book

is it goes back to
the idea of tone

that we talked about
way earlier, in terms

of giving them a sense of, what
is this show gonna feel like?

Or look like.

Yeah.

What is the texture
of the show, right?

So you're doing
things with images

that you just can't completely
do with the written word.

So we found this
actually pretty helpful.

And I think the studios and
networks all responded really

positively to this look book.

And it was pretty simple.

We did it ourselves
on Photoshop.

We're not particularly
skilled at Photoshop,

so we kept it pretty simple.

If you don't know Photoshop,
or Illustrator, or any

of those things, maybe
you have a friend who does

or someone who can help you out.

Again, it doesn't have
to be super fancy.

But, basically, we wanted
to adopt the look--

if you check out--
we'll show you

some of the pages
from this look book.

We were trying to evoke the
feeling of a classic Stephen

King paperback.

You'll notice that
the font is not

totally dissimilar from the font
ultimately used for the show,

"Stranger Things."

But again, this is something
very simple that Matt

and I were able to
do on Photoshop.

So we included
an introduction,

very much like we
did in the pitch.

We did.

But the most important
thing, aside from that, again,

are the pictures.

So this is something that we
were unable to do on the pitch.

But we show images from the
films which inspired it,

so some images from "E.T."

We show some images from
"Hellraiser" and "Nightmare

on Elm Street."

And, you know, we show Camp
Hero, what the base looks like.

So remember, again, when we're
talking about the script,

you're very spare
in your description.

So it's good to use a
look book, we think.

It allows a bit of
a shortcut to allow

them to start to
visualize, what is

this show that I'm gonna buy?

What is it gonna look like?

And we do get into some
of the character stuff.

But a lot of this
is, we're trying

to get a little bit more, like
Matt's saying, the feel of it

across.

We do talk about the conspiracy.

And some of the stuff
we go over in the pitch

and the basic story beats.

But then we go into
the tone and style.

We go into how we're gonna
deal with the horror,

that a lot of it's
gonna be off screen.

And the monster's
gonna be obscured,

and you're not going to
see things super clearly.

And just, sort of,
wanted to approach it

like those old classic films
that we grew up loving.

And so, we are able
to talk about that,

which is something
we didn't have time

to get into with the pitch.

We talk a little bit,
even, about the music,

that it's gonna have-- we
envision it as having like

a synth score, as opposed
to like an orchestral score.

We want it to sound like
a John Carpenter film.

So again, a lot of
this is kind of--

and that was not something-- we
didn't get into the soundtrack

when we were pitching.

And that was all about story,
and character, and structure.

And if you are interested in
looking more at, it I believe

you can just--

it is online.

Someone put it online.

Someone put it
online at some point.

So you can just Google
"Stranger Things" look book.

And it will come up for you.

[DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING]

We had the pitch,
the verbal pitch.

We had the look book,
which we sent them.

We did one other
thing, which is sort

of an above and beyond thing,
which is not necessary.

Our producer
suggested that we--

Is that what it was?

Yeah, that's what it was.

Yeah, our producer suggested
we do it, which we would do,

like, a sizzle reel or a
fake trailer for the show.

Basically, all this is, is
you take a bunch of clips.

This is, again, something that's
so simple that Ross and I were

able to do it on Final Cut.

We took a bunch of clips
from movies that were ins--

a lot of the movies
that inspired the show--

Yeah.

--old movies.

We had "E.T."

We had "Nightmare
on Elm Street."

We also had new movies.

We had-- what else
did we have in there?

We had "Super 8"

We had like 30-some movies.

Yeah, "Super 8" was
in there a lot, right?

"Halloween."

"Halloween."

Just a lot of our references.

And we put it together.

"Altered States" was in there.

And we added this--

what's cool about it
and it just further

helps tell them or show them--

The tone.

--the tone, how you
envision the show.

What do you imagine
it's going to look like?

What do you imagine
it's gonna sound like?

And it was cool, even for us.

I don't know how much
it helped, in terms

of the selling of the show.

But it was fun to put together
and actually helped educate us,

in terms of what this
show was gonna look like.

Was it gonna work, our
idea of synth music?

So we put, like, John Carpenter
synth music over images

from ET, which has kind of a
really uplifting John Williams

score and it was,
like, really cool.

And we were like, okay,
I think, actually, this

is going to work.

It's definitely not
something you have to do.

Hard to know how much it
moves the needle, in terms

of selling the project.

But I do think, ultimately,
something specific to us

is that we had wanted
to direct this one.

So--

Right.

--I think it helped sell
us that we had a clear vision

for what this should look,
and sound, and feel like.

And so, I think it
helped in that regard.

So it can be a helpful thing,
certainly not necessary.

[DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING]

We had our producers.

We had our verbal pitch
that we had memorized.

We had our look book,
we had our sizzle reel.

So now was the time to
really go out and pitch this

to various companies.

Which both our agents and
our producing partners

came up with a list
of, hey, I think

these are the companies
that potentially would

be interested in this project.

So then you start a sort
of grueling-- the grueling

experience of actually going and
doing these pitches in person.

So why it's exhausting
is you're doing

this 15 or 20-minute
pitch, but you're

doing it over and over again.

Yeah.

I believe-- how
many did we do?

I think, in that first
week, was it fif--

I mean, you say I exaggerate,
but I feel like it was 12--

Yeah

--in that first week.

Yeah, I would say it was
probably 12 in that first week.

And what can be--

it can be exciting, but
it can be discouraging.

I mean, you're gonna hear
stories again about, hey,

someone just bought
[SNAPS FINGERS] this

in the room.

Again, that didn't happen to us.

And I would say a chunk of the
places, at least half of them,

were probably hearing
the pitch just out

of to be nice to the
agents because they

had a relationship with them.

So like, okay, yeah.

I'll take 40 minutes out of
my day to hear this pitch.

But they weren't really
interested in the project.

So that can also become--

be a painful process, because
you're trying to be excited.

And if you're not
getting anything back,

if they're just zoned out,
then that 15 or 20 minutes is

gonna feel like two hours.

And so, you just do that--

Right.

--over and over
and over again.

And it can be disheartening.

Some people you'll
pitch to, they'll

seem completely
disengaged, uninterested.

And you're not
surprised when you

get the phone call, ultimately,
that they passed on it.

That's frustrating.

It's more discouraging
and frustrating

when you have that person or
people in the room who really

seem to connect
to it, who really

do seem to understand it,
who seem to love the project,

and you come out of that
room kind of bouncing.

You're like, wow, I
think that really worked.

That really went well.

I think they're going to buy--
that went really, really well.

And you get the phone
call that they brought it

to their boss, who was like--

for whatever reason, kids, I
don't know, kids and monsters?

No thanks, that's not for us.

And they end up passing on it.

So within that
first week, it was--

so you're pitching
your heart out,

and you're traveling
all over town.

And I think we had 12
pitches in that week,

and it was 12 rejections,
ultimately, in that first week.

And then, on that
Friday, I remember

we got a call from our
agent, who said that--

don't get too discouraged that
it was a special project that

was gonna find a special home.

And it was just not the
phone call you want to get.

Because you're like,
what's wrong with my child?

Like, what's wrong with this?

The idea that he
was calling it, um--

Special.

--special.

Kind of like, it was
like, okay, well, this

is gonna be harder than
we thought to sell it.

Butt--

Because we did feel very
strongly about the script.

And we felt strongly
about the pitch

and the additional materials.

And the producers had
responded so positively.

And we were just--

it just felt like, for a second
there, it wasn't gonna happen.

So I think what
happens, inevitably--

and this is something
that's important to know--

is that you do get
rejected a lot,

you get the door
shut on you a lot.

And it can be really
wearing on you.

It can wear you down.

I mean, I know a lot
of people have left,

you know, they stopped
even pursuing it

because it got worn down
so much by the rejection.

And at certain points,
it can seem impossible.

It can.

I think the best
thing to do when you're

feeling like you can't go
take another step is you just

got to get back up, and you
have to go back out there,

and you have to pitch it,
like, with the confidence

that this is really
cool and you really

do believe in it,
which was the case.

I mean, I think we kind of
got over it over the weekend.

I mean, we were starting to
get, actually, pretty nervous

about it selling.

The challenge
with all of this is

that there's an element of
luck and timing involved.

So for the instance--

Yeah.

--on "Stranger Things," the
instance was we weren't even

pitching to Netflix that wasn't
even part of the plan Netflix

was making shows for Dave
Fincher and Jenji Kohan.

She wasn't gonna make
a Duffer Brothers show.

That wasn't even
on anyone's radar.

They were so selective.

So we didn't even set
a meeting with Netflix.

Someone new had just
started to work there,

had a meeting with one of
our agents on our team.

And they said, hey,
we're looking for a show.

It should be youth-oriented, but
we want it to be supernatural.

I don't remember the
other key words he used,

but our agent was like, wait
a minute, wait a minute,

wait a minute, I have the
script for you, oh my God.

And he slipped him
"Stranger Things."

This executive happened
to really like the script.

And that got us our meeting.

But this is also where
you need a good agent.

Because then our agents are
kind of going, you know,

if you really are interested
in this, it's really hot.

Like, a lot of people
are interested in this,

you better act pretty fast.

Like, nobody was
interested in this script.

No.

That is the other
element of this,

which is you just need that
first little bite of someone

being interested.

Right.

But they leverage that.

You need something to leverage.

And then, suddenly,
there's excitement builds.

And then people go, oh, there's
this hot script in town.

And that led to, ultimately,
our meeting with Netflix

and them buying the project.

So--

No, but suddenly, people are
taking us to steak dinners.

And, like, this from nobody
was interested in this at all--

That's right.

--to one person
expresses interest.

Suddenly, there's panic,
everybody wants it.

And we're getting, like,
they're buying us $100 steaks.

It's ridiculous.

But there's an alternate--

But that's how it works.

--but there's an alternate
universe where that meeting

with that new Netflix
exec doesn't happen.

Right.

It doesn't get in his hands.

The interest doesn't
build like that.

So the point of this story
is to not get discouraged.

Because there was definitely
a version of this story

where the script
doesn't sell, or maybe

we get a small little
option fee and we develop

it a little more at a company.

And it just never gets made.

So that's the scary
thing about it.

And so, there's always gonna
be that element of luck

and timing, that it's just
always gonna be there.

There's nothing you
can do about it.

So there's gonna be a little
bit of crossing your fingers.

And all you can do is write
the best script possible,

get the best pitch,
and go above and beyond

with your additional
materials, whether that's

a look book, or
sizzle reel, or both,

or whatever it is that
you think you can do,

whatever ideas you have,
to get people excited.

That's really all you
can do, that's All

that's in your control.

The rest of it is up to fate.

[DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING]

Initially, Ross and I
did not want to write,

or didn't see
ourselves as writers,

I guess is a better
way of putting it.

We really wanted to
direct, that was our goal.

So it was very important
to us that this was a show

that we would be able to
direct, that we at least wanted

to direct the pilot.

But ideally, we wanted to
direct the majority, if not

the whole show.

And so, that's one reason we
did the look book, one reason we

did the sizzle reel,
the fake trailer,

to show that we had a vision
and understanding of this

beyond the written form.

But it was hard,
because at that point,

we had made that one movie at
Warner Bros., "Hidden," which

we talked a little
bit about, which

was a bomb, which was
a dud, which was never

released, right?

Which people always
seem to have,

like, sort of
lukewarm responses to.

I remember there was a
company that really wanted

to make "Montauk" or "Stranger
Things," that loved it,

like, they got it completely.

The phone call did come.

This feels like the one, yeah.

Yeah, it was like,
this is the one.

This is where we're
supposed to be.

They're gonna make this show.

Like, it really
did feel like that.

I mean, this was a
studio that had money,

that could make the show.

And they said, yeah, we don't
want the guys directing.

So that was really hard.

I mean, first of all,
it hurt my feelings

that they didn't like
the film and they didn't

think we were good directors.

But secondly, we were in a tough
spot, because at that point,

nobody was interested
in the show.

And I don't know, it
was a tough decision,

but we told our
agents, listen, we're

not interested in doing this
if we're not directing it.

We believed in it
enough that we felt

we would find another home.

We're like, if these
people responded

to it or this studio
responded to it--

Someone else--

--another studio is gonna
come and respond to it.

But it was at risk, it was
a bit of a roll of the dice.

But it was like,
for us, it was not

worth making if we weren't
allowed to direct it.

It's like the whole
reason we wrote

this was so we'd have
leverage to be able to direct.

So at that point, we
didn't have a lot of money.

We had worked on
that one TV show.

We were running out of money
from that television show.

Because we kind of
hoarded that money

and used that to buy ourselves
enough time to write this--

On the bank.

--show.

So with the bank, you know--

so we were basically
gonna end up

having to work for another
TV show or something,

if this didn't sell.

So it was a hard decision,
but it was honestly

one of the best
decisions we ever made,

which was to walk away
from that company.

And the only lesson
in that is, I

think, you know, stick to
your guns, trust your gut.

If you really want to direct,
or you want to be involved,

you want to be the show runner,
I think you should say that.

I think you should
stick to that.

I think a lot of
people, especially

if you're inexperienced,
they're gonna

be trying to push you
out of that position

because it's just an easier
sell to their bosses, basically.

But if you see yourself in
that role, you got to say it.

You got to say that that's
the requirement if you

want this script.

If your script's strong
enough, hopefully--

if that company doesn't
allow you to do it,

hopefully you'll find
a company that does.

Netflix did, Netflix
believed in us.

There are two things
that also lessons

from that, which we found, at
least in our experience, which

is confidence.

Even if you don't have it,
which we certainly-- we

didn't know how to make a
show, we just said we did.

Right.

There is something to
be said about faking it

until you make it, which is
just, project confidence,

if don't hedge your bets.

Do you guys know how to do this?

Don't say, well, I
mean, hopefully, we

can figure it out.

No, no, no, just
say, absolutely, this

is what-- we have a
vision, this is how

we want to impart that vision.

And if you just fake
confidence, you're

gonna make people
feel a lot better.

And you're more likely
to get what you want.

And also, there's
a power in saying

no, if someone says, hey,
we'll buy this project for you,

but these are the requirements.

If you say no, it actually
gives you more leverage

than you think.

Because then what happens
is they go, wait a minute,

this is someone who
has a clear vision

and they're sticking
to their guns.

And I think that
that is something

that, at least in
our experience,

has actually proved
pretty beneficial.

So you shouldn't
be afraid to say

no in certain circumstances.

What is gonna
be your ally here

is just doing everything we've
kind of stepped you through,

which is doing the work,
planning, writing things down,

like you notice with the pitch.

Even that, every aspect
of that was written down.

We weren't winging it.

We weren't having to--

that will give you the
confidence when you go in these

meetings to sound like you know
what the hell you're talking

about, even if you don't.

Just--

We were so nervous--

So nervous.

--going into the
Netflix meeting.

We were terrified.

But if we got in there,
uh, shaking and mumbling,

that probably wouldn't
have gotten us the project.

But because Matt and I had
rehearsed that pitch so

many times, that
once we got going,

once we started it and said,
hey, so you've probably

seen our look book, and we
started those first couple

sentences, it fell into place.

We had done this so many times.

And we just pretended like we're
just pitching to each other.

That confidence
just-- even though we

weren't confident at all,
Netflix saw it as confidence.

And that's all that
mattered in that moment.

So, again, it's
just, put in the work--

Put in the time.

--put in the time, plan it
all out, don't wing anything,

and you know, you'll be fine.

So now, you know, you've
started your script,

you're feeling
confident about it.

I think it might be worth
taking the time to develop

some of this pitching material.

It's good to put together
a look book, if you can.

If you know how to edit
on Final Cut, or iMovie,

or any of those
programs, then it's fun

to start to put
together, hey, this

is, maybe, what my
world could look like.

Start to develop
those materials you

would need to develop
your own pitch.

And, you know,
write out the pitch.

I mean, again, look, this pitch
is one, two, three, four, five,

six, it's only seven--
it's 6 and 1/2 pages.

Yeah.

So it's not that long.

It's not that much longer
than the page you wrote.

It's just basically organizing
all the ideas you have.

You're not gonna have to
be generating new ideas.

You're gonna have plenty
of ideas at this point,

writing them down,
organizing them

in the way that sounds
as cool as possible.

And then, suddenly, you're
gonna to have a pitch.

The minute you hire
a producer, you're

gonna be like, hey,
listen, I already

have a pitch ready to go.

I have this beautiful look book.

Here we go.

And that's fast.

And then they can send
that out to the town.

All right, so you've
sold your script.

If so, that's amazing.

Now, with "Stranger
Things" we were

in a somewhat unique
situation in that Netflix

had greenlit the series.

So we went straight into
writing the rest of the series.

A lot of times what's going to
happen is a studio or a network

is going to buy your script.

And then they're going to
continue to develop it.

You're going to work with an
executive there to continue

to hone the script and
hopefully get into a place

that they feel comfortable
with greenlighting that pilot.

So it sort of depends.

The situation is
gonna depend on it.

But the goal, of
course, always is

whether it's greenlit
right away or later,

as you want to get greenlit.

You want them to obviously
produce your story

and produce your show.

And when that happens,
something really exciting

happens, which is you're going
to get a writers' room, which

is something prior to
"Stranger Things" we had never

been in a writers' room.

We didn't really know how
a writers room worked.

What's great about a writers'
room is that doing a TV show

can be overwhelming.

That's a lot of
hours and characters

and storylines that
you're tracking.

And sometimes when
you're just working

by yourself, or in our
case, a writing partner,

you can get lost in the woods.

And you get stuck.

And what's amazing about
having other people

in the room and other
voices is that they

can help you get unstuck.

And they can give you
ideas that you never

would have thought of
in the first place.

And so they can help
you further blue sky

and further develop your idea
and help you with your outlines

as you go and continue to
develop the other episodes

of your show beyond the pilot.

So stepping back for a second.

So what is a writers'
room exactly?

So a writers' room is
basically something--

if you have a television show,
it's a room of writers, right?

And they're going
to be chosen by you.

If you're show-running,
you're going

to be able to select
who the writers are.

It's not like Netflix
is going to say

you have to hire X, Y, Z,
this person, this person,

this person, and suddenly
give you these writers.

You're going to read
a lot of scripts.

A lot of scripts.

A lot of scripts.

A lot of scripts that
aren't going to be so good.

But every once in a while,
you're going to read a script

you like.

You are going to then
meet with that writer,

and you're just
gonna feel it out.

It's like a-- kind of like a
little first date or whatever.

You're going to see
if you get along.

Does this person seem to
like the same stuff you like?

Do you share similar
sensibilities?

Do they bring something unique,
something different than you

to the room?

Because you don't want to
just hire a bunch of yous,

a bunch of people
who think like you.

You already have yourself.

Or in this case, there's
already two of us.

So we wanted to
bring on people who

had maybe a different
perspective, a different point

of view on everything.

And in terms of how many
writers you want to hire,

it just depends.

Ross and I over the
years have decided

we work better if there are
fewer writers in the room,

fewer voices in the room.

That if it's a
smaller room, that's

just how we like to work.

So right now, it's me, Ross,
and four other writers.

So six writers total.

I think it was five--

it was five on season one.

And maybe it was even a
little less on season two.

So every year we're sort of
learning and experimenting

with how many writers we want.

But like Matt said,
hopefully everyone

there has a unique
perspective but also

a unique skill set that
is helpful in terms

of developing your show.

We call it superpower.

We like-- we want every writer
to have a specific superpower.

And we don't want any of
those superpowers to overlap.

Like, if you're talking
about superheroes,

you don't want every superhero
to be shooting fireballs,

right?

So it's like--

Or being invisible,
or whatever it is.

Right.

It's like everybody has to have
their own unique little skill.

So we have one-- we
have a writer who is--

what would you call it?

They're an idea generator.

They just machine gun out
ideas, just a ton of ideas.

Terrible ideas.

Like, terrible,
terrible, terrible idea.

Terrible idea.

Terrible idea.

And then, bam.

Brilliant idea.

So you need-- even
the bad ideas are

good when they're thrown
out because they might shake

something loose for you, or
my brother, or another writer,

right?

So it's good.

We like to have
this machine gunner

in the room, a guy or girl who
can generate a lot of ideas.

Then we have what I would
like to call the goalkeeper.

And this is an essential
role because this

is someone who blocks
all those bad ideas that

are getting machine gunned out.

They're polite about it.

But they basically are like,
I don't like that idea.

I don't like that idea.

I don't like that idea.

I mean, I don't like
it because of X, Y, Z.

So they're protecting the show.

They're looking more
at the big picture.

Because the machine
gunner isn't necessarily

going to realize that this
idea that they generated,

which is really cool
or could be fun, well,

yeah, maybe on its own it is.

But the goalie,
or the goalkeeper

is going to go, well,
in the story that we're

trying to tell, it's
really just a detour.

And it's getting us away from
where we want this story to go.

So you need someone
who's going to be

critical because sometimes
in a writers' room everyone

can just be very enthusiastic
and go, I love your idea,

I love your idea,
I love your idea.

But you need someone, hopefully
who's not mean about it,

but who can go,
well, I don't think

that's going to work
for X, Y and Z reasons.

So again, you're just
looking for people

with different perspectives
and with different skills

as writers.

And all that's going
to do is just make

writing a lot easier for you.

Because so many times Matt
and I will get stuck in a loop

or we'll be writing, we'll
be off in our own office

writing a scene, or a script,
or working on the outline,

and we'll just get stuck.

And we don't know
what the answer is.

And then we're gonna go--
we'll go back into the room

and go, hey, everyone,
we're stuck on this.

Can you help us?

And people are going to
start spit-balling ideas.

The goalie is going to
say what isn't working.

And then someone's going
to say some idea that

is way outside of the box of
what Matt and I were thinking,

and suddenly, it's boom.

It's going to jar
everything loose.

And we're going to
go, oh wait a minute.

I see an avenue now
to solving this.

So the writers' room can
be a really helpful tool.

And it's also a reminder that
as you're breaking this pilot

script, you do not need to
have everything figured out.

We didn't even know we were
gonna go into the upside down,

much less what it was
going to look like.

Joyce was going to talk
to Will through magnets.

That became Christmas lights
as a result of someone's idea

in the writers' room.

Someone suggested we should
do a mall in season three.

That came from another writer.

Again, all of these unique
perspectives and voices

are going to be
really helpful as you

start to develop a
potentially eight hour or even

longer story.

And I think something
you're going to weigh,

and the studio is
going to want you

to weigh when you're
hiring these writers is

they're going to want some
level of experience in the room.

They're going to want
you to have someone

in the room who has
done this before,

who's been in 10
writers' rooms, OK?

Ross and I weigh experience a
little less than most people.

I think we found
a lot of people,

a lot of our best talent,
a lot of our best writers,

a lot of the best people,
frankly, on the show

didn't have a lot of
experience coming into it.

So it doesn't matter
so much, but it

is helpful to have at least
one person in that room who

has done it before, who knows
how these rooms function,

who knows how they work.

I don't think you want
everyone to be super green.

But at the same time, I think
the number one important thing

is that they're passionate,
they're good writers.

I mean, you can tell by reading
their scripts if they're

good writers or bad writers.

The good writers,
and they share some--

you know, they share similar
sensibilities with you

and they're bringing a new
perspective for the room.

All of those things are more
important, and in my opinion,

trump experience every time.

Yeah.

You're going to be in a
room with these people

for many, many hours.

Many days.

Months, generally, in our case.

Up to eight months in a
small room with these people.

And so you need to
make sure everyone's

going to get along, that this
person has a positive attitude.

So even if it's someone who is
going to be critical of ideas,

they're saying in a way
that is useful to the group

and that is still
filled with positivity

because you want everyone
in that room to get along.

Because if it's an
environment that is--

like any office,
if it's environment

that feels unhealthy
or that people just

aren't getting along,
you're just not going

to be very productive.

It needs to be an open
creative environment

because it needs to be a place
where everyone's comfortable.

Feels safe.

And feel safe to throw out
any idea because everyone's

going to throw out bad ideas.

Ross and I throw out
so many awful ideas--

So many bad ideas.

--every day.

And so do all of
our other writers.

So you have to be not scared.

You have to create an
environment where you're not

scared to throw out bad ideas.

And that works the best
if everybody gets along

and no one's super
judgmental of anybody.

You have to be able
to say, for instance, I

think there should be a
lizard creature in the mine.

And you have to be able
to feel free to say that.

And then someone should feel
free to say, I don't know.

Why is it a lizard creature?

You know what I'm saying?

I know what you're saying.

OK.

But right.

Yeah, I still think
it's pretty cool.

All right.

The lizard creature.

We'll see what the
internet thinks.

[LAUGHS]

And so once we
finished with season one

of "Stranger Things," obviously
it became a situation of, OK,

what is season two?

We'd already talked
about how we had

a basic idea for that, which
is involving Will's possession.

But one thing we've done to keep
it interesting moving forward--

and I think it's true
of season two and true

of season three
and four is that we

think about each season
as a sequel, which

is we're always
interested in exploring

different tones, different
moods, different storylines.

We want it to feel
very different.

So we've always liked
the idea of people--

not arguing over whether
they liked or dislike

"Stranger Things."

But we like the idea
of people arguing

over which season is their
favorite, which is their least

favorite, very much how
we argued about what's

the best "Indiana Jones."

So that was what
we kind of wanted

to do with "Stranger Things."

So every season is something
very, very different,

but it excites us.

So season two is
a darker season.

It's kind of an
exorcist possession

set in and around Halloween.

Season three, we
knew it was going

to be released in the summer.

So we wanted to do basically
our summer blockbuster.

We wanted it to be fun.

We wanted bright colors.

We wanted a giant
monster in them all.

We wanted all of that.

So tonally, it's very, very
different than season two.

Then season four, we didn't
want to do that again.

We didn't want to do a
big blockbuster season.

Even though it is coming
out in the summer still.

So we wanted to go a
little bit darker again.

We wanted to do--

Well, our kids are all--

our kids aren't kids anymore.

They're teens.

They're full-on teenagers.

They're in high school.

And so that inevitably
changes the tone.

And we wanted to
play with that tone

and go back to some
of the horror films

that we grew up loving
so much, whether it

was "Nightmare on Elm Street"
or "Hellraiser" or these--

Or "IT."

It's funny.

Actually, if you look--

Steven King's "IT."

Right.

I think it's
these touchstones.

And some of them we did
talk about when we first

came up with the season.

And we played with them a little
bit with Jonathan and Nancy

and Steve in season one.

But we really wanted
to get back into that

and do a true
really scary horror

film with our characters who
used to be middle school aged

kids and now they're older.

So we thought we could go
darker and scarier with them.

So that was sort of
where we started off

when we did season four.

So again, like Matt's
saying, the hope

was every season
feels different.

And yes, some of
that is just to keep

things fresh for the audience,
but also to keep us excited,

keep our writers exciting,
keep actors excited,

which is that-- and all
of our other collaborators

who are producing
the show with us.

Which is every
season we're not just

trying to repeat ourselves,
we're trying to do new things.

Inevitably, you
know, you're going

to learn new things
every season.

You're going to
make new mistakes.

But you're also going
to make new discoveries

and go, oh, wow, that
was really exciting.

We should lean into that
even more the next season.

And I think that's
exciting to us.

And to not be afraid
to try new things

and do different
things because that's

what keeps our edge up and
keeps us excited to go back

to this world year after year.

You know, once you've
actually produced a show,

it's going to go
out into the world.

And people are
going to watch it.

A lot of people are
going to watch it,

and they're going
to have opinions.

And sometimes those
opinions are going

to make you feel really happy
and good about yourself.

And sometimes they're
going to make you feel

a little down about yourself.

So what we try to do
every season is just

try to block out all the noise
and go back to that feeling

we had when we were first
starting "Stranger Things,"

and just coming up
with that big idea.

That was just Matt
and I in our apartment

just spit-balling ideas.

So we try to block it
all out and get back

to that, looking for that
thing that excites us,

that makes us really want
to sit down and write again.

That feeling that we told
you that you're looking for,

which is that spark
and that excitement.

We do that every
year and just try

to find that excitement again.

And once we find it, and we go,
oh, I can't wait to write that.

That's when we know we
have the kernel of what

it's gonna become a new
season of "Stranger Things."

I think the lesson in that--
and I think we've touched

on this a lot.

But I think you're your own
best compass in terms of what

you like and what excites you.

In the same way
that we suggested

you don't listen to
studio executives,

I don't think you
should be listening

to Twitter, or social
media, or your friends.

I think you should
be really, as much

as possible, listen to
yourself and your own gut

and what excites you.

I think that's going to result
in the best work possible.

And you can take all that in.

And we get notes.

And again, we hear from fans,
what they like and don't like.

And some of it might
resonate with you.

And you're going to
go, you know what?

I think that's right.

And you're going to
feel it in your gut.

But there's other
stuff that people

are going to
criticize that you're

gonna go, well, I understand
they didn't like that,

but I really like that.

And I feel that's an
essential part of the story,

so I'm gonna stick to my gut.

And I'm gonna stick to my guns.

And I'm gonna--

I'm gonna continue
down that path.

And that's fine too.

Again, you're gonna have critics
as you start producing stuff.

But, ultimately, you still need
to be your harshest critic.

You know when I was flipping
through those outlines

and just showing how we just
kept doing it over, and over,

and over again?

We still have to do that.

Even though we found success
with this first season,

we still are really
hard on ourselves

because I think you
have to be in order

to make something good.

You've got to just keep
pushing yourself to get better,

and to get better,
and to keep learning

and keep growing as an artist.

So we'll talk a
little bit about 4

and some of the
interesting challenges

in making season 4, of
which there were many.

One of the biggest
challenges, of course,

we were producing
this and COVID hit.

So we shut down for
about six months.

That resulted in
some challenges.

For example, we had one
actor, Dacre Montgomery,

who was in Australia,
all the way in Australia.

And we had written
a scene for him.

He was going to come back
in episode 4 of the show

in the episode, "Dear Billy."

But we could not
for the life of us

get him out of Australia
into the United States.

It was impossible.

And the time finally came,
we kept punting the scene

and punting the scene.

Surely, surely it's
going to be easier

to get out of Australia.

It never happened.

Never panned out so
we never got Dacre.

We never got Dacre
out of Australia,

but we still have a scene
between Max and Billy, Sadie

and Dacre that takes
place in a cemetery.

So what we ended up doing is
our director was actually--

Shawn Levy was
directing that episode--

he shot Sadie's side of the
conversation at the graveyard.

He had a stand-in for Billy,
so any over-the-shoulder

shot you see is going
to be with a stand-in.

And then he shot an empty
frame without Dacre in it.

So Sadie is acting
against nothing.

I mean, she's acting against
a stand-in for Dacre.

I think they recorded
Dacre's voice.

So they were playing Dacre's
voice, but he was not there.

And then we shot-- months,
months, months later, we shot--

In another continent.

In another continent, we
shot Dacre against blue screen

in Australia.

And then we comped him in,
and the scene works great.

You would never know it.

No more hiding.

Billy, that's not true.

I swear-- I swear,
it's not true.

That is why you
feel such guilt.

No.

Why you hide
from your friends.

No.

Why you hide from the world.

No.

And why late at night you have
sometimes wished to follow me.

COVID caused a lot of delays.

But one thing that
it did afford us,

which we've never had on any
season of "Stranger Things"

is we had time to go back.

Usually we're sprinting
with these scripts.

We're writing them.

We hand them over to production,
and it gets shot right away.

So this is the first
time ever, we just

had a bunch of scripts
that weren't being shot,

that were just sitting there.

And so Matt and I used the
time to go back and go,

hey, we can plant an
idea here that we're

going to pay off later.

We can--

Improve all these scenes.

And the character
arcs, for instance,

that we were talking
about, right?

About how a character-- you want
some of your main characters

to go from A to B.
Well, sometimes that

gets lost a little
bit in the struggle

of juggling all these storylines
and just in plot mechanics.

But we had the time now to
go back and go, okay, wait,

this moment here
is an opportunity

to further develop this
character in his arc.

So it was a really
fun process for us

actually to be able to go
back and look at these scripts

and evaluate, can
they get better.

And, again, you've got to
be your harshest critic.

Everything can
always get better.

There is going to always
be a pencils down moment.

But for once in
our lives, we are

able to go, hey,
let's take a breath.

Let's look back.

And can we improve
these scripts?

So it's actually
interesting if we

start thinking about, what did
we do when we had that time off

from COVID.

What would have been different
had COVID not happened?

How different would "Stranger
Things 4" have been?

I think it would have
been not as good.

I mean, there were lots of
things that were different.

Like, for instance,
in episode 2,

when Eleven hits Angela
with a roller skate.

That used to be set
at a putt-putt course.

Angela.

So we were obsessed with this
having to be at a putt-putt

course.

We could never find a
good putt-putt course

that looked good.

We realized all
putt-putt courses--

I don't know how I
didn't know this--

but they're all right
next to giant freeways.

It was going to be a
nightmare for sound.

Anyway, we took the
time and rewrote it

for taking place
in a roller rink.

And I can't imagine
that scene now not

taking place inside
a roller rink,

and I can't imagine
Eleven not smacking

Angela with a roller skate.

You can see bloody
roller skates over there

behind us in honor
of that moment.

Yes.

What else changed?

This is an example.

We didn't know until we
were writing the finale when

Eddie is on top of his trailer
rocking out with his guitar.

We didn't know that his guitar
was going to play any purpose

or serve any role in the story.

So we did not set up
that he had a guitar.

But at this point, we
had written the finale.

We knew we needed to set up
that Eddie was a guitarist.

So we went back, and we
started to layer that idea in.

There's a scene in episode 1
when he's talking to Chrissy,

and he mentions how
he plays guitar.

You played guitar, right?

Uh-huh, still do, still do.

You should come see us.

We play at The
Hideout on Tuesdays.

It's pretty cool.

We-- we actually get a
crowd of about five drunks.

[LAUGHS]

That was all
part of a rewrite.

In fact, that whole scene
was just a whatever scene

that got a ton better.

It's one of my favorite
scenes in the show.

It was just a mediocre
scene initially

between Eddie and
Chrissy, where we just

got through the mechanics.

She's buying drugs from Eddie.

That was it.

All the sweet character moments
came out in the rewrite, all

because basically we had
to set up this guitar.

We have him-- when
he's taking Chrissy

into his trailer at the
end of that episode,

we have him kiss his guitar
and give it a little strum.

And he calls it her, so we
established that this guitar

means something to him.

[KISSES FINGERS]

[STRUMS GUITAR]

You're beautiful.

This is the kind of
luxury we had in terms

of when we had time, we
were able to go back--

Yes.

And refine these scripts.

Sometimes you can do
this stuff with reshoots.

But oftentimes there's
no time for reshoots.

And the reason is,
could you just reveal

that Eddie has a guitar later.

Yes, but it's nice
to set something up.

And this is something we
didn't cover in the class,

where you're going to see-- if
you do read the screenwriting

book, it's going to be all over
our screenwriting book, which

is a plant and a payoff,
which is you plant something

very early on in a script,
and you don't pay it off

until much later.

Sometimes we do know
what we want to pay off,

so we do plant it early on.

But sometimes we're
not quite sure

where the story is
going to go, or it

changes as we're developing it.

And in that case, it is nice to
be able to go back and put it

in the script and
plant something,

like as simple as a
guitar, that then pays off

hours and hours and hours later.

And the last thing I
would say just about what

that delay gave us is the
voice of Eddie in Joe Quinn,

we didn't know as well as the
other actors because we never

worked with Joe before.

But by the time we
had been shooting

a couple of weeks with Joe
when we had to shut down,

and so we started
to hear his voice,

and we started to get a better
handle on the character.

And this is something
that we found as important

during production.

We talked about it a little
bit with Maya Hawke in Robin

and with Finn Wolfhard as
Mike, which is the actors that

are cast are going to
change a little bit maybe

how you write these
characters and what

their voices sound like.

So it gave us time
to go back and go,

how can we get Eddie
better so it's not just

setting up the guitar.

It's also going, okay, how
can we improve his voice.

It's sort of like in that
Dustin-Steve spin-off

that we were writing, where
it's like I don't quite

know who Mack is.

Yes, we would figure
out a little bit more

if we blue-skyed and worked
on his character backstory.

But maybe we cast an actor
who's just totally different

than we ever imagined him.

Great, now you have
the ability to go back

and work on that voice more and
make him even more interesting.

And hopefully what started out
as a pretty basic character

or in the case of that
spin-off thing that we wrote,

he didn't really have
a character at all.

He wasn't doing anything.

He was just bouncing off of--

He was a brick wall.

He's a brick wall.

Well, suddenly, we can imbue
him with a lot more personality,

and suddenly he's going
to jump off the page

and jump off the screen
in a much better way.

You don't remember me?

I'm sorry.

Middle school talent show,
you were doing this cheer thing.

You know, the--
the thing you do.

It was pretty cool actually.

And I-- I was with my dad.

Corroded Coffin.

Corroded Coffin.

Oh, my god.

Yes, no--

You do remember, right?

Oh, of course, with a name
like that, how could I forget?

I don't know.

You're a freak.

So at this point,
we've reached

sort of the end of this class,
and we hope you enjoyed it.

And thanks for sitting
here and listening to us

talk and talk and talk about
screenwriting for this long,

if you've made it this far.

I think it's just worth
us kind of covering really

quickly some of the big
points in this lesson,

since it was kind
of long, or for us

what are the key moments
or key takeaways,

the things we hope
really stay with you.

Number one is big idea.

It's really important that
you have the right idea.

Don't jump in till you
feel that idea is right.

Be passionate about it
and again simple, clean,

take from your life.

You don't need to
write some sprawling

epic for your first script.

You haven't written
anything before.

It's okay to be simple.

It is much more
complicated, and I

think hopefully you've seen that
over the course of us talking,

which is even telling
a simple story,

there are a lot of elements to
it and it can be complicated.

So it's okay to write
something simple.

It's okay to give yourself
a very simple story

for your first script.

Right.

And then the other
thing is, at that point,

blue-skying, this is
a part of the process

that we think is
really important,

which is that free-form
brainstorming.

Stream of consciousness.

Stream of-- take
a lot of time.

Develop your idea.

Develop your idea.

Have fun with that stage.

And then once you
do that and you're

starting to move in the more
formal stages of outlining

and writing, I think we would
just encourage you again

to stay out really wide.

Stay zoomed way far
out and then slowly,

baby steps, right, like slowly
zoom in closer, closer, closer,

closer.

It's going to come more--
it's going to come more and more

into focus.

And I think it can
be so overwhelming.

Yeah.

And I think this is
the most important thing.

You're going to watch a show or
a movie that you love, right?

And it's going to
feel impossible.

How in the world did
they do all this?

How did they start with just a
blank page and it became this?

Well, it got there very slowly.

It's a messy process.

It's a messy process.

As you saw, it started out--
our brainstorming for "Stranger

Things" started off with
Sam Rockwell in a shack.

You know, it started
out with nerd friend.

It started out almost--

so basic and simple
and messy and a lot

of misspelling and bad grammar,
and it just slowly became

the show that maybe you've
seen and that you recognize.

But it was a long, long
process to get there.

And it can be overwhelming.

But again, like
Matt's saying, baby

steps, if you take it one
little step at a time, suddenly

that blank page, which we know--

we know firsthand how
scary that can be,

suddenly it's less
scary because you don't

have to solve it all at once.

Just take it one step at a time.

And I promise you, it is a
lot more doable than it seems.

So that kind of brings
us to the end of the class.

We hope you got
something out of it.

We're excited hopefully to
one day meet you in Hollywood.

And that's my new
dream, that someone

says they saw this class,
and it helped them.

And now they're a
very successful writer

or writer-director in Hollywood.

So that's my new dream so
please make that come true.

We're rooting for you.

Take that spark of an idea
and turn it into gold.

And remember just have fun.

[STATIC]

[INAUDIBLE]

This should be a fun process.

And you want to enjoy
it as you're going

through it so try to have fun.

Find that passion.

Find that spark
and best of luck.

[STATIC]