All language subtitles for Masterclass - St. Vincent Teaches Creativity and Songwriting_Full

ANNIE CLARK: The point of a
song is to get at the ineffable

and get at the struggle
that is to be human.

Every song needs to
have an epiphany.

Every song needs to
have an epiphany.

Where it starts and ends
ought to be different.

Something should happen.

ANNIE CLARK (THROUGH
SPEAKERS) Let's begin.

ANNIE CLARK: (SINGING) When
the earth split in two--

ANNOUNCER: Please
welcome St. Vincent.

ANNIE CLARK: (SINGING)
I, you were you.

Here's someone
doing edgy stuff,

but it's very beautiful and
melodic at the same time.

ANNOUNCER: And the Grammy goes
to Annie Clark, St. Vincent.

WOMAN: She fronted
Nirvana for their Rock

and Roll Hall of Fame induction.

TREVOR NOAH: Some
people have compared you

to David Bowie saying that
your characters change

to David Bowie saying that
your characters change

from album to album.

ANNIE CLARK: Are Annie Clark
and St. Vincent the same thing?

Honestly, you'd have to ask her.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "FEAR THE
FUTURE"]

I'm St Vincent--

and I'm Annie Clark--

and this is my MasterClass.

When I think about the things
that used to hold me back a lot

when I first started out, more
than anything, it was fear.

when I first started out, more
than anything, it was fear.

And it was aspects of shame.

Or it was this inner voice
that was not very helpful.

At the time, I felt like
the options afforded women

in music who went
under their own name

were kind of narrow roads.

If I went by my name,
which is Annie Clark, which

is a perfectly
fine American name,

it would sound to people like
I made acoustic music only

it would sound to people like
I made acoustic music only

for coffee shops.

And that wasn't
what I wanted to do.

And so I just came up
with something else.

I came up with the
moniker St. Vincent

before I put out my first album.

And it was a reference to a
Nick Cave song called "There

She Goes My Beautiful
World," where he sings,

"And Dylan Thomas died drunk
at St. Vincent's hospital,"

which I thought was hilarious.

No, I thought it captured
the kind of grandiosity

No, I thought it captured
the kind of grandiosity

and the squalor
that I think it is

to be an artist, because there's
these fleeting moments of,

like, I found it.

I'm a genius!

And then the next
minute is like, oh, God,

what a fucking idiot .

I made it a moniker so that
I could have the flexibility

to do whatever I wanted
with it and for it

to be any number of things.

So I could be any
number of things.

I wanted to do this class
because I wanted to peel back

the curtain and go, listen.

These are all the things
that go into being

a professional musician.

So I want to share with you
guys some performance tips,

some songwriting tips,
some studio tips.

We're going to take
my song "Savior"

and walk you through every step
of the songwriting process,

from the beginning, the lyrics,
counter-melody, production.

We're going to talk about
guitar, finger style,

We're going to talk about
guitar, finger style,

effects pedals, and also
crafting your own sound.

I think this class can
be applicable to not

only musicians, but
also just anybody who

is in the process of making
something and taking it

from an idea all the
way to its completion

and understanding the
vulnerability of that process.

I know that most of the time,
what people see is the music,

or it's the concert,
or it's the album

cover and that kind of stuff.

But I just wanted to
explore all the things

But I just wanted to
explore all the things

that I think about when putting
an album together or putting

a tour together.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

(SINGING) Please--

The moments of feeling like,
yes, we crushed it, are real,

but they're fleeting.

And then you need--

like a drug addict, need to go
out and climb another mountain.

Your best tool in the
world is your ears.

If you have ears and ideas,
you can make anything happen.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

I have gone into
periods of my life

when writing that I like to
call "nun mode," which basically

means I cut out anything
that isn't writing.

I would abstain
from, like, alcohol.

I would abstain from
just anything that

gave me visceral pleasure
and just focus in.

gave me visceral pleasure
and just focus in.

When I was writing
my last record, which

was called "Masseduction," I
went into nun mode to do it.

And I-- for probably six
months, I didn't have any fun.

I was just hyperfocused,
and writing,

and trying to really hone in
on what I was trying to say.

It's not necessary to
become a complete aesthetic,

but for me, in that period of
time in my life, it really was.

I had to just hone in and find--

I had to just hone in and find--

find it.

The great thing about music
is that it's generative.

Like the more you do,
the more you can do.

Part of the process is the
sitting there and just,

like, hoping, hoping
that the train rolls

through the station.

But the old adage goes, like, if
you want to get hit by a train,

you better go stand
on the tracks.

you better go stand
on the tracks.

So just even being
there strumming away

or playing away and kind of
going, huh-- and even if the--

even if the idea at the
time doesn't feel like much,

just keep going.

Push through the feelings
of I'm worthless,

this sucks, I hate
myself, I'm a fraud.

And you just have to push
through those feelings, which

And you just have to push
through those feelings, which

is difficult. That, I
think, is half the battle

of writing is
sitting with yourself

in uncomfortable
positions where you're

hoping something happens.

You're straining
your brain, you're

straining your spirit to,
like, find something to say,

something to express,
the way to express it.

And you feel bad when
it doesn't happen

or you feel you don't like
the way it is happening.

But if you can turn
that voice down,

But if you can turn
that voice down,

the inner critic, as
much as you possibly can,

then you can just generate.

I just make things.

And I'm not judging them
when I'm making them.

I save the editing part.

I save the critical
part for after.

My favorite thing
to do in the world

is set aside an entire day.

I know I don't have any
fucking conference calls.

I don't have any obligations.

My obligation is to
sit here and write.

This is my job.

It's your job.

It's your job.

Sometimes that means after three
hours of kind of noodling away,

you take a shower
that you don't need

to take because the second you
step away from it, you go--

[SNAP]-- that's the melody.

Oh, yeah, what about this lyric?

Because there's this difference
between active engagement

with it and then the sort of
passive engagement with it

that you can do that sometimes
you need to step away

and just kind of let it--

let it happen.

And other times you
need to force it even

And other times you
need to force it even

when you feel very
uncomfortable.

From the outside, I think the
creative process looks insane.

It looks insane.

If there was a
camera in my studio,

it would be me going like this--

typing some lyrics on
a laptop, zoning out,

picking up a guitar, playing
a thing, zoning out--

mixed with flurries of this--
this, this idea, yeah, okay,

mixed with flurries of this--
this, this idea, yeah, okay,

we're really on a roll.

Okay.

And just, you get into
this rhythm and this zone

where you're just hyperfocused.

And things are flowing, and
you're going, you're going.

Hitting a wall being, like,
hmm, I should probably

go listen to a podcast.

You know, you just anything--

I should probably take
a second shower today

or I really do need that muffin.

The 30-minute break that
you take to, like, go

do something completely passive
is also part of the process.

do something completely passive
is also part of the process.

With writing, you just
have to make a habit of it.

And also when you're just going
about your day not writing,

if you see something,
write it down.

If you see something that's
inspiring, have a thought,

write it down, unless you
have the world's best memory,

but I certainly don't.

I have to write it down.

This thought, I
had this thought.

I'll wake up in the
middle of the night

because I have a
melody in my head.

Record it into my phone.

Fall back asleep.

It's just the more that
you kind of tune in

to, one, your inner voice,
the more it will give you.

to, one, your inner voice,
the more it will give you.

The trick is if you
tune out that voice

too often, that's when the voice
gets just quieter, and quieter,

and doesn't come
when you want it to.

So always, always write it
down if you have an idea.

Always record it if you have
a little melody that's coming

to your head, whatever it is.

Because even if it's something
that you don't use at the time,

you may use it later or it
will lead you to other ideas

that you do use and you
are really excited about.

that you do use and you
are really excited about.

Part of the process is, in
my experience, is finding it.

You know, you're
going, going, going.

You're creating.

And sometimes you don't know
what these big themes are.

You don't know, necessarily,
where you're headed.

You don't know, really,
what you're unpacking.

You just have to go
through, create, create,

follow your inner
intuition and your voice.

follow your inner
intuition and your voice.

And then at the end
of it, you're like,

oh, I guess this is
what this is about.

And the music will tell
you what it wants to be.

That's the other
thing that happens.

You can think that
you're completely

in control of the whole thing--
well, I want it to say this.

And it's going to be
this, and this, and this.

The music that's inside of
you is going to come out.

And it's a really nice
dance, because it's humbling,

you know?

And the more you try
to shoehorn who you are

And the more you try
to shoehorn who you are

and what you want to say into
somewhere it doesn't fit,

the more the music will
be like, nah, no, no.

We don't-- that's
not who we are.

So it's a really funny dance
with control and abandon.

When you're thinking
about watching a film

or you're thinking
about reading a book,

you don't read a happy
story about happy people

where everything works out fine.

Within every narrative
storytelling form,

there is a transformation
that takes place.

It's all about
tension and release.

I mean, both what
you're doing musically,

I mean, both what
you're doing musically,

how you're saying it
lyrically, and also just

the tension and
release of the story.

You kind of set it up
and watch it unfold,

and watch characters change
throughout the course

of the song.

I think that every
song needs an epiphany.

The epiphany can be the
narrator of the story realizing

something that they
didn't previously

realize by the end of the song.

It can be-- the epiphany can
be that, as you're listening

to the narrator talk,
they're revealing

to the narrator talk,
they're revealing

more and more about the story.

And then at the end, it's
sort of, the epiphany is yours

and you go, oh, that's
what was going on.

Wow, what a twist.

But also there's this--

you want to leave enough
room for the audience

to put themselves into
the song, see situations

that they've been
in, feel feelings

that they don't have
necessarily access to

or words for on a daily basis.

But you put it into song,
you put music next to it,

But you put it into song,
you put music next to it,

you put the lyric
together, and suddenly

people go, I feel understood.

I feel seen.

I'm this person.

The idea of epiphany
really crystallized for me,

I think, listening to Leonard
Cohen's song "Famous Blue

Raincoat."

The music is pensive
and somber, and it's

written like it's a letter.

It's written like it's dialogue
directed toward a couple

It's written like it's dialogue
directed toward a couple

people.

And then you realize at
the end, the entirety

of the story, which is, like,
a story of brotherly betrayal

and lost love, and just
all this rich, rich story

that he was able
to convey almost

without the listener knowing.

But every lyric
furthered the story.

A great example of
epiphany, even just

A great example of
epiphany, even just

the feeling of "Lithium,"
which, the chorus is just, yeah.

You have these, like,
said with piss and vinegar

kind of verse lyrics.

And then the epiphany, to
me, is just the big release

of just screaming, yeah.

You understand it.

And it's just one word.

Just all of the--

just anger, and the
fuck you, and the angst,

just anger, and the
fuck you, and the angst,

and the sarcasm, and just all
of it wrapped up into one.

Through one word.

The music is the context.

I mean, the music will tell
you things about the story

that the character is not.

So even if the character
is saying the same thing

and the music is changing,
you go, oh, uh oh.

What's going on here?

So an epiphany does not
have to be a lyrical.

It can absolutely be musical.

It can absolutely be musical.

It can just be that
little moment of a-ha,

this is why this song exists.

But I think songs
do need epiphanies.

Otherwise, I guess
you're writing

about happy people for whom
things are good who end up

happy, and that's garbage.

That's not how life is.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT
"MASSEDUCTION"]

Masseduction.

I can't turn off
what turns me on.

I can't turn off
what turns me on.

Masseduction.

As a songwriter, learn as many
songs as you possibly can,

and how to play them,
and sing them, and try

to figure out what about them
makes you love them so much.

And then incorporate
that into your own work.

Learn it all, and
grab it, and use it,

and go, oh, this is
amazing core progression.

Boop.

Fits right here.

Look at that.

You know, take some of the
conventions and riff on them.

I mean, just run wild and
listen to all kinds of music.

I mean, just run wild and
listen to all kinds of music.

There's not a kind
of music that I

can't find something
really compelling

or interesting about.

Listen to Stevie
Wonder's "Golden Lady."

Listen to how it starts
with a progression,

this nice little
jazz progression.

Look, it's a major seven,
and then to the two,

it's a minor seven.

[VOCALIZING] Minor seven.

Oh, wait.

It continues going up.

It takes a convention, a
very known progression,

and then when you think
you know what it is,

actually, it goes up one more
and somehow lands back to one.

actually, it goes up one more
and somehow lands back to one.

We go someplace else for
the pre, [VOCALIZING]

But guess what?

Then we land.

And then when we come
back for the chorus,

we've just gone to
the relative minor.

Like, wow.

This is fascinating.

This, like, this underpinning
and how we go from A to B to C

is just thrilling.

Take a song that you
love and dissect it.

Take a song that you
love and dissect it.

Like, let it be a frog in
a middle school science

classroom.

Like, just go, oh, I mean,
one of the brilliant things

about Nirvana is there are
these beautiful melodies.

I mean, it's like--

it's almost like "Heart Shaped
Box," for example, you know,

[VOCALIZING]

In another context, you know,
that would be Cole Porter.

But it's put with, like,
I mean, I'm playing it,

But it's put with, like,
I mean, I'm playing it,

but I realize you can't hear.

But it's put with these
chords that add menace to it.

The chords add sorrow.

And suddenly, what is this
beautiful fluid melody

is totally gripping
and recontextualized.

It feels new.

It feels new, because
those things aren't often

put together in that same way.

I mean, it's like a
masterclass, no pun intended.

I mean, it's like a
masterclass, no pun intended.

I mean, that's,
like, a masterclass

in melody right there.

And being able to use simple
chords, simple progressions,

for just glorious effect.

You don't need theory.

Theory just helps to
give a language to that

which you can already hear.

Your ears will be
your best guide.

I learned some theory in
college that I basically

I learned some theory in
college that I basically

filed away for years.

And only now am I kind of
going back to it and going,

oh, the stuff that
seemed abstract,

like, me charting out a
mingus, I understand that now.

But it took me 15
years to get to a place

where that felt
relevant to my work.

where that felt
relevant to my work.

But again, it's the sort
of thing where you just

input, input,
input, and you never

know what's going
to come out or be

the be the right thing
at the right time.

But also, hit the woodshed now.

Because at the point
where you get successful

or the career starts taking
off, you're going to be going.

The train is just going
to leave the station,

and you just have
to be ready for it

and you have to be prepared.

and you have to be prepared.

You have to know how to sing.

You have to do know how
to do all these things.

Because once the
train gets going,

you're not going to have
time to just luxuriate

in your bedroom for 12 hours,
you know, playing Led Zeppelin.

One hot tip would
be to train your ear

to hear what every instrument
in a song is doing.

I remember getting
this good lesson

when I was playing guitar.

I was really excited
about guitar,

but I was like, I'm going
to learn how to play bass.

but I was like, I'm going
to learn how to play bass.

But all of a sudden, it
took a total recalibration

of my ear to hear the bass.

Because I was used to just,
you know, hearing the guitar,

hearing the peacock in the song.

But I started to really
paid attention to the bass,

and it kind of changed
the way everything.

So train your ear to notice
what each instrument is doing.

Also, Miles Davis said that
there are no wrong notes.

Also, Miles Davis said that
there are no wrong notes.

It's just the note
you play after it.

Every melody, at one point,
was an improvisation.

Everything is improv.

You just codify
the improvisation.

One great thing to do is say
you have a chord progression

that you're really into, you're
not really sure what to do.

Just start improvising
melodies over it over and over

and over again.

Record everything.

I record everything.

And then go back later
and go, oh, this was cool.

A lot of times you go
back to certain things

and you're like, oh, god.

and you're like, oh, god.

If this ever saw
the light of day--

you know, this is terrible.

But that's the point.

Create, generate,
go, go, go, go, go.

And the more you
have to work with,

just the better off you'll be.

I recorded a lot of my first
album in my childhood bedroom

at my mom's house sitting
at the computer like this

with a Sonic iced tea.

But through that, I
learned how to arrange.

I honed some of my
engineering chops,

and I learned what my
voice really sounded like.

and I learned what my
voice really sounded like.

I learned how to make
different sounds and explore.

You don't need a whole lot
to just go ahead and start

as a songwriter.

There's some tools
that you can have

pretty easily at your
disposal and just record

things in your bedroom.

Learn about that process.

You could have an idea,
and at the end of the day,

You could have an idea,
and at the end of the day,

five hours later,
you've got a song.

It's so exciting to be
able to just do that.

So during the time
when I was making

what would become my first
album, I did a lot of it

in my childhood bedroom with a
setup somewhat similar to this

except it was a laptop.

It was an Inbox, which is
a first-generation Inbox,

which was--

you could monitor.

You could put on
headphones and listen,

You could put on
headphones and listen,

and you could
record two signals.

So you could put in
a local XLR cable,

or you could put in a line-in
guitar cable and record in two.

I was using Pro
Tools at the time.

And sit there and play and
go, oh, that's not right.

Try again.

Dot dot.

Sit there and sing.

That's not right.

Go, go, go, go, go.

Track, track, track.

And so I did a lot of that
first record just sitting

And so I did a lot of that
first record just sitting

at my mom's house.

I was playing a lot
of guitar and bass,

but I also would
just go to pawn shops

and find little toy pianos.

Or the glockenspiel, God
bless, was big at the time.

I had one of those.

My mom got a dulcimer
at a craft festival,

and I was messing around on
that, and it really was just--

it was just exciting
to be able to try out

different sounds, things that I
didn't really know how to play.

different sounds, things that I
didn't really know how to play.

That's another thing
I'll say for songwriters.

If you're stuck on something,
go to an instrument

that you don't play.

Go to an instrument that
you don't play well.

And all of a sudden,
you're not going

to be able to rely
on muscle memory.

You're just going
to be-- you're just

going to be finding
new things and going,

ooh, that's exciting.

Ooh, OK.

I guess I wrote this
on a bass, you know,

or I'm not very
good at piano, but I

can poke around until I find
something that excites me.

So today, I've got a little
home-studio setup, just

a little audio interface here
that I can plug a guitar into

and I can plug a vocal mic into.

And that has phantom power
because some mics require

phantom power, and some do not.

See, just a little set
of headphones here.

I'm using this keyboard
as a midi controller.

I'm using this keyboard
as a midi controller.

If I wanted to play something
into the computer using

a soft synth in the computer,
I could do over here.

I've got a keyboard here.

I like the kind--

I like the hotkey
situation over here.

So I can turn things
like clicks on and off

or send things
back to the start.

This is a mouse.

Some people are faster
with just a normal mouse,

and some people use mouses
that are kind of specifically

for editing like this.

I got used to this
one, so it's just

I got used to this
one, so it's just

a personal-preference thing.

Couple monitors here.

Monitor placement
is pretty important.

And depending on how
much space you have,

you know, you'll need to
kind of make adjustments.

I have some guitars laid out.

I like to have a lot of
different timbres of guitar.

I have a little pedal
board here that I

can play guitar into the pedal
board into the audio interface

and record in.

and record in.

I have a little microphone here.

This is just a little
ribbon microphone.

I think it sounds great.

I like the look of this
one and the feel of it,

and it sounds great too.

But it's just easy for
me to go oh, wait, no.

It should be da, da, da, da, da.

OK, to me, that's just
easier, and then I

don't have to move
around as much.

And I can-- well, a lot of
times when I'm singing vocal

takes, I like to stand
up and get into it.

Again, thank God it's
your home studio.

Again, thank God it's
your home studio.

No one else is there watching.

But I like to
really get into it,

and I find that the handheld
kind of simulates the feeling

of a show a little bit more.

Again, like, it doesn't
matter how good you are

in any of these instruments.

If you can make something that
inspires you and sounds good--

hell, even get so
good at editing

that it doesn't matter
if you're good at it.

Do that, anything
to get to your idea.

When I'm writing and the sounds
aren't particularly inspiring,

When I'm writing and the sounds
aren't particularly inspiring,

sometimes that can
be a real bummer,

and it can stop me from
wanting to press forth

with a particular song.

But I've learned--

I call it hearing
through the demo.

I can hear through and imagine
what it will be in the end.

So as long as it doesn't so
bum you out and completely

stop you from writing, know
that any song can be changed.

Key, tempo, all these
things can be changed.

Key, tempo, all these
things can be changed.

Right now I have Logic
teed up because I

used to do a lot
of demos in Logic

because I found that their
midi interface was easier,

but you can use anything.

I mean, the even scaled-down
version of Logic is GarageBand,

and those things are totally
compatible, which is great.

You can start
something in GarageBand

and then open it in Logic.

You can record a live
instrument in any room.

Every room sounds different.

What you want to
try to do is make

What you want to
try to do is make

the room as dead as possible.

That means not too many
surfaces that it can--

the sound can bounce off of.

Try to deaden things
with blankets if you can.

Make sure nothing's
rattling in the corner

or whatever it is because
it's your bedroom.

It's for things other than
recording a lot of the time.

If you want a
particular sound but you

don't have a lot
of guitar pedals,

you can still get a lot of cool
sounds from digital presets.

You can, for example,
take your guitar

You can, for example,
take your guitar

and plug it directly
into the audio interface

and use programs that
have a lot of presets.

It's not air moving through
a speaker moving the room

and changing the
energy of the room,

but it's absolutely
a nice quick fix

for finding some tones
that are inspiring to you.

This is bare bones,
and this is really--

you know, you could write
a whole album like this.

you know, you could write
a whole album like this.

You really could.

ST. VINCENT: Over the
next few chapters,

I want to start to demystify
the process of songwriting.

So we're going to
take my song "Savior"

and walk you through every
step of the songwriting process

from the beginning to its
final recording on the record.

And we're going to
talk about the tempo.

We're going to
talk about the key.

We're going to talk
about counter melody

We're going to talk
about counter melody

and knowing when it's done,
knowing when to step away.

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

(SINGING) Savior.

But then you say, please.

Then you say, please.

I wanted to talk about
the song "Savior"

because it includes a
melody that I wrote when

I was 16 or 17 in my
childhood bedroom,

I was 16 or 17 in my
childhood bedroom,

and I think it proves the point
that there is no wasted effort.

And when the time is
right, the idea will come.

I'm going to play
something for you guys that

is so embarrassing.

Just fills me with shame.

As I said, I wrote part of the
song "Savior" when I was 17.

There's this line
ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh.

I found the audio.

I have-- my friend found a
tape that I had given him,

and I'd given a bit of a tape
that said my first single.

So I have it.

Oh, God.

OK, well, I can play you
approximately three seconds

OK, well, I can play you
approximately three seconds

of this.

Here we go.

OK, see?

See I got it?

OK, just "bit, dit, dit."

(SINGING) You say please.

Oh, God.

It's so-- what was my problem?

There's four more minutes
of this damn song.

I have not been able
to get through it

I have not been able
to get through it

because I'm just
overcome by, like, oh.

Which, again, shame is
a good thing to face,

and I'm demonstrating
that for you right now.

The song for me was
just very personal.

I was in a situation where--

I think we've all
been in the situation

where we're sort of being asked
to be things that aren't really

even natural for us.

even natural for us.

You know, you're in a
relationship with someone who's

kind of asking you to be all
of these different things

that you don't really
know how to be,

and you don't really
know how to be for them.

So I took the example of some
of these, you know, archetypes.

OK, you've got dress
you up like a nurse,

dress you up like a teacher,
dress you up like a nun,

dress you up like
a cop, you know,

all of these things
that are very visual.

You can see it.

I'm not just
describing how I feel.

You can see the
metaphors unfold.

Those particular
examples to me were

a little bit funny and a
little bit tongue in cheek

a little bit funny and a
little bit tongue in cheek

because they're also,
like, stripper tropes

or like porn tropes, right?

And that made me laugh.

Even if a song is about
something very serious,

you can use humor.

You can use levity to
get your point across.

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

(SINGING) You dress me
up in a nurse's outfit.

(SPEAKING) The first
line is "you dress me up

in a nurse's outfit.

It rides and sticks to
my thighs and my hips."

(SINGING) --to my
thighs and my hips.

(SPEAKING) One, visual
language, you can see it.

(SPEAKING) One, visual
language, you can see it.

But also to me,
that's a funny image.

Just it doesn't--
it doesn't fit.

And so you start off the gate
with in some ways like a thesis

and get people into the
world from the start.

I keep you on your
best behavior,

but I can't be your savior.

OK, it rhymes, sometimes.

Not always not
everything has to rhyme.

I learned-- I learned
that lesson the hard way.

But then it breaks into
the narrator saying

But then it breaks into
the narrator saying

but then you say please.

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

(SINGING) Then you say please.

Then you say please.

(SPEAKING) And then you
see that the narrator is

in this other position
where it's like,

well, it takes two to tango.

I'm still here.

So what's going on?

I'm equally culpable.

I think as a writer, it's
very tempting to write songs

I think as a writer, it's
very tempting to write songs

where you are either
the hero or the victim,

but it takes a little bit more
introspection to be, oh, damn.

This is about me too.

I did something wrong too.

And that, I think,
that's a really just kind

of nice life lesson to learn.

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

(SINGING) Hand me a badge
and a little billy club.

(SINGING) Hand me a badge
and a little billy club.

(SPEAKING) I really
care about words.

I really, really like them.

But the trick sometimes
being a songwriter

is threading the needle,
finding that balance

between a lyric that means
what you're trying to say

but also leaves
enough ambiguity where

it's necessary to let a
listener in and let them

put their own life into it.

Every song should
have an epiphany.

Every song should
have an epiphany.

Where it starts and where
it ends should be different.

You realize something
in the midst

of the song that puts you in
a different place at the end,

but always think about tension
and release, even lyrically.

Set up a lyric almost
like a punch line.

You set it up, and then
with the next thing,

you either defy the expectation
of the previous lyric

or you expound upon it on a way
that makes it more meaningful.

or you expound upon it on a way
that makes it more meaningful.

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

Lyrics are super,
super important to me.

It's a fine line of
saying what you intend

to say in the most
colorful way possible

but also making sure
that it sings well.

but also making sure
that it sings well.

And sometimes you
have to what I call

kill your darlings, which
is change words that

just don't sing well.

There have been a
couple times when

I know that certain words
really, really, really

don't sing well, and I
just try to lean into that.

I think I managed to put the
words snorted in a song, which

is a coup because, at
the end of the day,

it does need to sound good.

It needs to, for people
who aren't total lyric

It needs to, for people
who aren't total lyric

freaks like I am, it
needs to draw them in.

That doesn't mean it has to
be pretty or any particular--

I'm not being prescriptive about
what it needs to sound like,

but it needs to capture people.

And I feel strongly that
the first lyric of a song

really ought to be
compelling enough

for people to go, wait, what?

and at the very least
really set the scene.

With the song
"Savior" when it was

With the song
"Savior" when it was

very produced and
put on the album,

it's sort of tongue in cheek.

It's sort of sexy.

And then I also recorded it
with just me and a piano player,

and that version way more
leans into the sadness

and the desperation.

So same lyric, two
different takes

on it, which I think that's
the goal of a songwriter

is to be able to put a
song in different contexts,

is to be able to put a
song in different contexts,

to strip it down
to its most bare.

Here's the chords.

Here's the vocal, and
is it still powerful?

Does it resonate?

When you sing it, does it
make you feel something

in your heart?

If the answer is
yes, then great.

You've written a song
you can build a house on.

If it needs
everything, if it needs

all the bells and
whistles and it

needs so much to
kind of even stand,

then it might not
be one for the ages.

then it might not
be one for the ages.

And I say this having written
many things in this category,

I think.

But a good song you can dress
up in any way, shape, or form,

and it's still a good song.

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

(SINGING) But then
you say please.

Then you say please.

I originally started it, the
doo, doo, doo, dih, dee, dee,

duh, dih, dih, dih, dih,
duh, was slow and dirgy.

But then I started to think
about the actual meaning

of the song.

And again, these, like,
early '80s porn tropes, like,

it should just feel
more like slinky,

and sexy, and almost a
little like wha whan.

and sexy, and almost a
little like wha whan.

So I moved off of that.

But originally you
can see I had this--

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

Great take.

Okay, so you can
see here I was--

I was pretty much just
trying to like make sure

that the lyrics were singable.

When you're first starting
out singing the song

When you're first starting
out singing the song

and you have the
words and everything,

sing entire takes of the song.

Sing it over and over again.

Try different things.

It's not about
perfection at all.

It's like does it have vibe?

Does it sound good?

Is it evocative?

Because if it's a little
pitchy here, who cares?

Like, that's-- that's
what music sounds like.

When you're recording
yourself at home,

it's hard to switch between
performer brain and, like,

editor brain.

editor brain.

And I've gotten better
at it over the years,

but I would always find,
like, I was in the flow.

And then it wasn't
exactly the thing

that I was hoping it would be.

I played it a little
wrong or I wanted

to change an arrangement thing.

And so then I'd go over here.

And I was not--

I would just do-- and
then all of a sudden,

it's a right-brain,
left-brain situation.

And I'm interrupted from the--

any vibe or flow that
I was in creatively

and now I'm just like looking at
a screen and going and counting

measures.

measures.

So I don't have any
real advice on how

to toggle between those
things successfully

except to just say just get
as good as you can at both.

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

(SINGING) You dressed me
in a nun's black outfit.

The versus of
"Savior" are centered

around D, and D major,
or D mixolydian,

which means a Flat VII, a
C rather than a C sharp.

which means a Flat VII, a
C rather than a C sharp.

And then for the pre choruses--

(SINGING) But I keep you
on your best behavior.

I go to the relative minor
of D. I go to B minor.

So a center the
tonality differently.

(SINGING) But I keep you
on your best behavior.

Honey, I can't be your savior.

Do this walking down
motion and end up

on a G, which is nice because
that resolves nicely to D.

on a G, which is nice because
that resolves nicely to D.

So sometimes it becomes
a little bit of like--

a little trick of, like, math
of, like, where you want--

where you want to end up.

Like, I'm centered around this
note for this time period.

And then I'm going to
center around this note

so that when I go back to
this note, it feels fresh.

I think about how
I want sections

to feel new every time
you come back to them.

to feel new every time
you come back to them.

And I used to do
that a whole lot

with melodies or reharmonizing
a particular part.

But currently, I'm
just really into,

like, the mechanics
of harmony and going,

wow, how can we go super out
here, and then land here,

and it feels like such a
relief and such a surprise?

Like, let's follow
this harmonic journey.

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

Another thing I like to
talk about and think about

is, like, proof of concept.

You can have these beautiful
words that you've written

and a melody.

And you can hear it
all in your head.

But then, somehow, when
you go to record it,

it's like, oh, that
word's a little clunky,

or this needs revising, or--

and that's fine.

That's so part of the process.

The process is either
take something good

and bludgeon it till it's great
or set it aside and refine,

and bludgeon it till it's great
or set it aside and refine,

refine, refine, refine, refine.

This would be more
proof of concept.

Let's see.

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

(SINGING) Keep you on
your best behavior.

But, honey, I can't
be your savior.

I can tell from the
vocal take there

that I was imagining
those being backgrounds,

because I was adopting a very
stilted, stilted performance.

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]
(SINGING) You dress me up like

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]
(SINGING) You dress me up like

a nu--

Oh, that's an embarrassing line.

That was a bad line.

And luckily, I fixed it.

Oh, god, that was terrible.

Thank god, I was
working in my little--

in my little tiny space
polishing this stuff.

I think I started
at something about--

you know, this, like, Virgin
Mary reference and imagery.

you know, this, like, Virgin
Mary reference and imagery.

And then it was
Madonna, something

about Madonna, but then that
sounded like Madonna the pop

star.

And it was very confusing.

And it didn't sing
well and it was too--

oh god, this is horrifying.

But I'm glad I did it alone.

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

Okay, I ended up tweaking
those slightly, those

lyrics slightly, just a little,
you know, final polishes of,

like, "I can't be" instead
of "I don't want to be,"

stuff like that.

Obviously, all of this changed.

All of it did.

But here, I have the basic form.

And I have a north
star in the song.

Sometimes I'll find that if
I'm writing, and writing,

Sometimes I'll find that if
I'm writing, and writing,

and writing, and
nothing's catching,

it's because the song doesn't
really have a heart yet.

And so you can flex all day and
come up with clever wordplay

or whatever it is,
but if you don't

have that North
Star grounding you

and everything writing toward
it, then what do you do?

To me, the North Star in this
song was the concept of savior

and the line, you know, "
but I can't be your savior."

It has a heart.

I know what it's about.

I know what it's about.

So I'm not just flailing.

[MUSIC - ST VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

(SINGING) But I keep you
on your best behavior.

Honey, I can't be you savior.

I love you to the grave,
then farther, but, honey,

I can't be your martyr.

Here was the
original guitar part.

[HEAVY GUITAR PART]

Got that?

I mean, that's a real beefy
riff, which I moved away from,

because I thought it took
power away from the vocal.

because I thought it took
power away from the vocal.

So when the vocal
melody comes in,

if you've heard this big,
blasting monster guitar already

saying it and then
the vocal comes in,

you've just deflated
that balloon.

I also did it because
I felt like it was just

right on that edge of corny.

At the end of the day,
one of my big rules

is, like, I ask myself,
does this serve the song?

And if the answer is no,
then it's unfortunate.

And if the answer is no,
then it's unfortunate.

But sometimes you
really just have

to be merciless
with your editing.

And it's fine.

Again, there's no wasted effort.

Save it for a different song.

You can always
throw it in there.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"
WITH GUITAR PART]

(SINGING) But I keep you
on your best behavior.

But honey, I can't
be your savior.

(SPEAKING) I mean--

(SINGING) Honey, I
can't be your mart--

(SPEAKING) OK.

So I changed that.

I think there were different
instruments that could support

I think there were different
instruments that could support

the vocal a bit better there.

And also, I wanted to make
that part really syncopated.

I think I was thinking
about The Pointer Sisters

or something, just
something really syncopated.

Again, the tension and release--
dot, dot, dot, dot, dot--

angular.

And then it releases into that.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

(SINGING) Love you to
the grave and farther.

Honey, I am not your martyr.

But then you say, "please."

(SPEAKING) This very
kind of strict beat--

[HEAVY BEAT]

This is definitely on the grid.

There's no movement here.

This is the kind of beat-- this,
like, strict, Germanic thing--

that actually could support a--

[VOCALIZING DESCENDING NOTES]
this waterfall thing

[VOCALIZING DESCENDING NOTES]
this waterfall thing

going down.

At this tempo, it
didn't have any power.

So I changed the tempo,
and I changed the key.

I changed the key.

[PLAYING NOTES]

So that became the lick and
definitely more in that--

again, I mean, I was just,
like, referencing Dr. Dre.

[PLAYING NOTES]

So it's just, like,
little and kind of funk,

idiomatic, and better for my
voice to sing all the parts.

(SINGING) You dress me up.

Please.

Every singer has a
couple different breaks

in their voice.

And what I mean by a
break, it's a place

where you go from your chest
voice into your head voice.

Because this song goes from
chest voice to head voice

Because this song goes from
chest voice to head voice

and then goes from head voice
all the way down into chest

voice, I just had to pick the
key of it pretty thoughtfully.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

I'd added a bass.

And this is-- this bass is
one of the great bass players

of life, Pino Palladino.

And he came in to play.

And he's playing--

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

(SINGING) But I keep you
on your best behavior.

(SINGING) But I keep you
on your best behavior.

Honey, I can't be your savior.

(SPEAKING) And it's--

(SINGING) Love you to
the grave and farther.

Honey, I am not your martyr.

(SPEAKING) He's playing these--

the great thing-- I
mean, he's playing

these little melodic lines with
a fair amount of notes in them.

But because it's in
the bass register

and not something
really high, which

your ear hears higher things--

there's something called
perceived loudness,

so it hears higher
things as louder

than they actually are
in decibel levels because

of the way that sound travels.

of the way that sound travels.

So he's playing.

He's playing.

But it just adds this, again,
fluidity against the rigidity

of these very sort
of Germanic drums.

Usually, the reason you're
asking someone to play

is that you like
what they can do.

And you like their voice.

So it's always a balance
between allowing someone

to be themselves and
experiment and also

to be themselves and
experiment and also

guiding them toward
what it is you want

if those things don't align.

Always be prepared to
be pleasantly surprised

that someone can play something
that you go, oh my god,

that's awesome.

We're going to chase that down.

We're going to
follow that thing.

This galvanized the whole song.

So that can be
scary, but there's

nothing lost in chasing an
idea down a rabbit hole.

I ended up enlisting
a great pedal steel

player named Greg Leisz.

player named Greg Leisz.

And he added this.

[SORROWFUL GUITAR PART]

So Greg played this beautiful
thing that just added, I think,

the extra sorrow.

Lap steel, to me, is a
very sorrowful instrument.

[SORROWFUL GUITAR PART]

That under the word "please"
sung over and over again

hopefully creates
an emotional effect.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

(SINGING) Please.

(SPEAKING) Counter melody
is really, really important.

It's just something other than
the main vocal melody that adds

just a little bit of intrigue.

A lot of times, counter
melodies can be hooks.

A lot of times, counter
melodies can be hooks.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

(SINGING) But I keep you
on your best behavior.

Honey, I can't be your savior.

(SPEAKING) So at some
point, there was this.

[MELODY PLAYING]

I think my friend Thomas
might have done this.

So he was trying to play
kind of a counter melody.

I ended up abandoning
this, though, and just

trying to make it as
syncopated-- just clean

and syncopated as possible.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"
WITH MELODY]

(SINGING) But I keep you
on your best behavior.

(SINGING) But I keep you
on your best behavior.

Honey, I can't be your savior.

(SPEAKING) But one thing
that that does do--

[IMITATING MELODY]---- is it
provides a counter melody.

Here's a good example
of counter melody.

OK.

So I'm singing,
(SINGING) please.

While I'm going down, my friend
Bobby Sparks is going up.

[MELODY PLAYING]

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"
WITH MELODY]

(SINGING) Please,
please, please.

(SPEAKING) So for the end, the
effect that we're going for

is this kind of, like, swirling
whirlpool, things going up,

things going down,
just to create

the sense of being slightly
disoriented in a narcotic way.

the sense of being slightly
disoriented in a narcotic way.

So I just played you things that
I did more or less in my house,

in my home studio.

And now we're going to go
into a proper recording studio

and see the inner
workings of that.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]

I love being in the studio.

It's my favorite.

It's my absolute favorite place.

Anything is possible.

Anything is possible
in the studio.

It's so exciting.

SONG: You dress me up
in a nurse's outfit.

It's very easy to
write alone and come up

with a lot of great ideas,
generate a lot of material,

flesh out a lot of
things on your own.

flesh out a lot of
things on your own.

But at some point,
you'll probably

want to go into a
proper recording studio.

Especially when you're
trying to track things

like live drums, acoustic
instruments, big pianos, things

like that, you kind
of want to make

sure you have good
mics and good gear

if you want to capture the
actual sound of the room.

That's a lot of the
reason why people

go to studios instead
of doing things at home

is because it's
a physical space.

is because it's
a physical space.

And also, there's
a lot of great gear

and mics and all that stuff.

When you're walking
into a studio,

automatically you're going to
have other people around, be it

the studio assistants who
are helping set up the gear.

Maybe it's a producer.

And so you're going to have
to know how to talk to people

and know how to get
your ideas across.

In my experience, having the--

In my experience, having the--

a little bit of
technical know-how

regally helps because you
can talk to engineers.

If you're looking
for a sound, you

can go, oh, well, what I want
is a plate reverb, instead

of going, well, I kind
of hear kind of airy.

And then you're at the mercy
of somebody else's idea of what

"airy" means and their own
baggage with whatever effects

they have and their
own personal tastes.

But also, you know, the
reason to collaborate

But also, you know, the
reason to collaborate

with people is that it's going
to be better than what you

could've done on your own and
different than what you could

have done on your own.

That's the whole
reason to collaborate,

is that it gets to be the joy
and excitement of discovery.

And that can be sometimes
difficult to sort of personally

navigate and know why
you're doing what you're

doing, in order to make
sure that you're not

making decisions based on fear.

That's kind of an art
killer, in my experience.

When you get too
in your head, when

When you get too
in your head, when

it's too much about
being self-conscious,

it's a real vibe killer.

There are a lot of ways to write
and a lot of ways to see it--

your song to completion.

One of the ways is to have
everything really planned out,

have all the parts written,
have all the words written,

you know, know things like,
it's going to be this tempo

and it's going to be in this
key and all those things that

are really crucial to
the DNA of the song.

And at that point,
I would say it's

And at that point,
I would say it's

very safe-- it's a safe
bet-- to go into the studio.

A lot of people like to
experiment and explore

in the studio, too, though.

So if you end up getting
in there and things change,

that's cool, too, because
so much about the process

is being opened to being
pleasantly surprised.

Once I had the idea and
the structure of the song,

Once I had the idea and
the structure of the song,

I went and worked with my friend
Jack Antonoff at Electric Lady

Studios.

And we recorded things
there like live drums

and additional guitars,
some upright piano.

In addition to that, just added
a lot of bits of production

that would just catch the ear.

A little change here,
a little bit of,

like, effervescence there.

I've been known to call
them "flavor crystals."

I've been known to call
them "flavor crystals."

I think I got that term from
my friend John Congleton.

So this is one thing.

I had my uncle Tuck come
in and play guitar--

great guitar player.

And what we did is we had him
just solo over the entire song

and then pick just little
moments that could add,

you know, exclamation points.

So we have Tuck doing this--

[CHIMEY GUITAR PLAYING]

--at the end.

--at the end.

So he's playing this chimey,
pretty, pretty thing.

And here-- here it is in
context with the track.

[VOCALIZING, GUITAR PLAYING]

Here-- here it is without.

[VOCALIZING]

Here's with it in.

[VOCALIZING, GUITAR PLAYING]

[VOCALIZING, GUITAR PLAYING]

You can hear how it's
in that higher register.

And so it kind of
adds this little layer

of shimmer over the end.

So that's a bit of
a flavor crystal.

There's also program drums,
and I also have live drums.

I've tracked the live drums with
Jack Antonoff at Electric Lady.

So I'm going to just
show you the difference.

A lot of what the
live drums did is

just add, again, some
feeling, some air moving

just add, again, some
feeling, some air moving

through the room, and,
again, flavor crystal

and help the groove.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]
--rides and sticks

to my thighs--

You can hear--

--and my hips.

I'm soloing out the live drums.

[DRUMS PLAYING]

You can hear, that's
the sound of a room.

Here's just the
programmed drums.

[DRUMS PLAYING]

Do you hear the--

so we've got like a
little bit of a slap delay

and some, like, small plate
reverb on that high hat

and some, like, small plate
reverb on that high hat

and snare.

[DRUM SNARE AND REVERB]

Little bits of that
there on the snare.

OK, so that-- that would
be a snare through a space

echo and made to
be random, right?

And really, you
can play the echo.

So it's more exciting than, say,
a plug-in on the computer that

So it's more exciting than, say,
a plug-in on the computer that

does the same echo every time.

The most-- the exciting thing,
especially about studios,

is when they have outboard
gear and you can feed signals

that you've just recorded
direct in through the gear

and get new sounds, especially
with echoes and big plates.

The point is, there's
a lot of fun toys

to play with in the studio.

And it's always
nice in productions

to have a little bit of chaos.

to have a little bit of chaos.

It can be quiet chaos,
but just a little bit

of things constantly changing.

It's never quite the same,
but it's in very subtle ways

to just keep the momentum going.

Also, that's, I think,
how life is more.

[DRUMS PLAYING]

So still the programmed drums--

programmed drums and
live drums together.

[DRUMS PLAYING]

So roll in space echo.

[IMITATING DRUMS] And
found a loop of the

echo where it was in time
doing a kind of triplet rhythm.

Duh, duh, duh, duh, da, duh,
duh, duh, da, duh, duh, duh,

duh, da.

So just to add texture.

Texture is very important.

[DRUMS PLAYING]

And all this stuff is
going on in the track,

and you don't really hear it.

and you don't really hear it.

You just hear some excitement.

So I'm going back
to the track now.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]
--your savior.

Love you to the
grave and father.

Honey, I am not your martyr.

But then you say, please.

Synths.

[SYNTH PLAYING]

Sounds like a Juno, probably,
just ascending, adding

Sounds like a Juno, probably,
just ascending, adding

a pad layer of texture.

That adds up with--

[SYNTH PLAYING]

--this other synth, which
adds up with the guitars.

[SYNTH, GUITARS PLAYING]

I just wanted its feel like
it was going on forever.

Keep going.

And it eventually has
to come back down.

We add it with a pedal steel.

[SYNTH, GUITARS PLAYING]

[SYNTH, GUITARS PLAYING]

[PEDAL STEEL GUITAR PLAYING]

And the pedal
steel takes us out.

But adding all of these
things, playing the same chords

but different arrangement,
different tones,

the overall texture
can be really exciting.

the overall texture
can be really exciting.

Simplicity is
great, too, though.

I don't want to--

you can't use every
color on every painting.

But it is really nice
to have things add up

to one big kind of
undefinable sound.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]
But I keep you on your best

behavior.

Honey, I can't be your savior.

The other thing I want to
talk about is the lead vocals.

So we talked about
in the other room--

So we talked about
in the other room--

you heard me just trying to
get lyrics figured out and give

takes that were--
(SINGING) you dress me up--

just not particularly good.

But I want to play you where
the lead vocal ended up.

RECORDING: (SINGING) You dress
me up in the nurse's outfit.

It rides and sticks to
my thighs and my hips.

It's a little--

RECORDING: (SINGING)
You put me in--

--a little gritty.

--a little gritty.

RECORDING: (SINGING) --a
teacher's little denim skirt.

A little talky.

RECORDING: (SINGING) Ruler and
desk so I can make it hurt.

All right.

We've figured out the lyrics.

As far as effects and vocals
go, it's a real season to taste.

But I-- I'm such a
sucker for lyrics

that I like to at least
have the opportunity

to hear what they might be.

That doesn't--
there's great, great,

great music where you
can't understand anything,

and it's beautiful, too.

and it's beautiful, too.

I think with-- a lot
of times with my own,

I kind of like to at least
give people the opportunity

to hear the lyric.

Make sure that when
you are insisting on,

you know, more
effects on something

that it's not because you don't
like the sound of what you're

hearing and are afraid
of-- like especially

with vocals, because that's
the most sensitive thing,

in my experience.

It's such a personal
thing to sing,

and it's such a personal
thing to hear yourself back.

and it's such a personal
thing to hear yourself back.

And it's so hard
to be objective.

I think a good rule
for being in the studio

is either turn it up and
make it a thing or lose it.

If you find yourself continually
turning down something-- turn,

turn, turn, turn down--

it's maybe that it
doesn't need to be there.

And if you are a
singer and you're

working on putting
effects on your own vocal,

just make sure that
you're not taking

just make sure that
you're not taking

a knife through the painting.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "SAVIOR"]
Please.

I don't know how
records get done.

I have no idea.

It's a mystery.

But somehow, you
work a lot of days.

You eat a lot of takeout.

And somehow, after a number
of months, you have a record.

You don't even remember.

It's-- you don't even remember
exactly how it came to be.

It's-- you don't even remember
exactly how it came to be.

You don't remember why you
made this decision and not

that decision.

But you did.

And the reason
that's exciting is

because you made that
decision now in real time.

You might not have made
that decision two years ago.

You might not make that
decision in three years.

And what that
means is, no matter

what, it's a record
of a moment in time.

It's one of the
reasons why I feel

It's one of the
reasons why I feel

like, no matter what, you
just have to keep generating,

keep creating, keep creating.

Every artist knows when
they didn't really--

they didn't get it quite there.

They got it there, and a lot of
people go, oh, yeah, great job.

But you know.

You'll know that you didn't
push it that little bit farther.

And just like Brian Eno
said, if something's good,

torture it mercilessly till
it's great, or discard it.

You just have to keep pushing
and have to keep writing,

You just have to keep pushing
and have to keep writing,

because miraculously,
something will happen.

Everybody feels
weird sometimes.

Everybody feels like
they don't fit in.

Everybody feels
self-conscious, and afraid,

and all those things.

If you can speak to that
in a way that's real,

then you can move the
needle just slightly

in a more empathetic
direction for the world.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "LOS
AGELESS"]

Really, the only
thing that I think

Really, the only
thing that I think

has happened as
I have progressed

is I've simply
become more myself.

That's-- and that's the
path for every artist.

Just become more yourself.

You can't try to
be somebody else.

There's no way
you could possibly

fill somebody else's shoes.

And you don't want to.

They're already in them.

You do you because
nobody else can

say what you're trying to say
the way that you can say it.

I think that shame is
the root of all evil.

I think that shame is
the root of all evil.

I think the shame is the
reason why people are violent.

It's people having shame, not
knowing what to do with it,

and then doing something,
making a bad decision.

Make shame your friend.

And what I mean by that
is be able to find a way

to find humor in all
situations and be

able to laugh at
yourself because there's

able to laugh at
yourself because there's

no way to get good at something
without being bad at it first.

Live performance is
a big part of that.

There's something
else entirely that

happens when you're in a room
needing to perform for people.

It's just a different energy.

And it just takes a while
to figure out how to do.

And the only way you get good
at it is by doing it a lot.

And so, unfortunately,
that means

people being witness to some of
your more embarrassing moments

people being witness to some of
your more embarrassing moments

like--

I tried to do a cool stage
dive one time in Germany

and climb the speaker.

I tried to climb through
this stack of speakers

and got caught.

I was just flailing like a
roach on its back, just stuck.

And it's like, great.

Luckily, I had been through
enough hilarity and kind

Luckily, I had been through
enough hilarity and kind

of indignation to just
find that incredibly funny.

Shame will stop you
from experimenting.

Shame will stop you from trying.

Shame will stop you from
putting yourself out there.

And you just have to be able
to face it, compartmentalize

it, put its--

metabolize it, in a way,
whatever way it is for you.

I tend to do it with humor.

Find a place to put it so
that it doesn't block you

from the thing that you love.

from the thing that you love.

When you can do that, then
you deactivate the bomb.

You deactivate the
bomb of fear when

you can take something and
put it through the funhouse

mirror to explore it.

I think that everybody feels
like a fraud at some point.

And I think feeling
like a fraud is actually

kind of helpful and
healthy in ways.

There's the
Dunning-Kruger test where

people took this big test.

And the people who did the
worst thought they did the best.

And the people who did the best
were like, oh, I bombed it.

And the people who did the best
were like, oh, I bombed it.

I bombed it.

So the feeling like a
fraud, I think, is--

all these things can just be
motivators to make you go,

I want to work harder.

I won't be a fraud.

I'm going to work harder.

And again, it's just this
idea of metabolizing shame.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "FEAR THE
FUTURE"] Come on, sir.

Just give me the answer.

Come on, sir.

Now I need an answer.

My baby's lost--

At different points of
my life, I've tour managed.

I roadied.

I teched.

I pretended to be my own agent.

There's a hot new act
named Annie Clark,

who is making the
rounds all over coffee

shops in the Northeast.

But I felt too uncomfortable
calling myself and saying, oh,

hi, can you give me a gig,
that I bought a domain name,

hi, can you give me a gig,
that I bought a domain name,

made up a fake agency, made up
a fake name, and called people--

mailed them my CDs, wrote
flowery emails about this

amazing new talent that
they've just got to check out--

[CHUCKLES] and got some gigs.

Just-- and whatever it takes.

Let's hop in the minivans.

Let's do this.

Help me with this amp.

Sike.

I can do it myself.

[CHUCKLES]

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "FEAR THE
FUTURE"] I fear the future.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "FEAR THE
FUTURE"] I fear the future.

From a really early age, I was
just obsessed with the guitar.

I remember seeing "La Bamba,"
the Ritchie Valens movie.

And he had this little
Stratocaster guitar.

And I was just obsessed.

I started making them as little
craft projects with, you know,

cardboard and rubber
bands and just--

oh, this form is so
exciting to me somehow.

And then there was a toy
guitar at a local Target store,

And then there was a toy
guitar at a local Target store,

and I begged my mom for it.

And she finally acquiesced,
even though it was definitely

out of the price range
for for us at that time.

I just remember long car trips--

that going on, you know,
little family vacations

and that kind of thing is always
being about the soundtrack.

Frankly, I don't really
remember the vacations.

But I remember that we were
listening to this Steely Dan

record.

And then we had
this Traffic record,

and then we got this Rolling
Stones record and this Jimi

Hendrix record.

Those are sort of, like, in
this way, the most crystallized

Those are sort of, like, in
this way, the most crystallized

moments of my
childhood, is, like,

looking at a landscape
listening to Jimi Hendrix.

I started finally actually
playing guitar when I was 12.

And then it was
all I wanted to do.

It really was obsession.

You know, any album
you buy, you read

the liner notes so you know who
played on it, who produced it.

Oh.

Oh, this-- it's
like, oh, this person

played on that record,
and then oh, wow.

And you have this library
of, in some cases,

And you have this library
of, in some cases,

totally useless
knowledge, or useful only

in the amount of joy that it
gives you to know, oh, yeah,

so and so and so and so.

There's been nothing
in my life that

has ever given me so much joy.

I played bass in a
metal cover band,

and we played things like
junior high cafeterias.

So we played-- we played some
Maiden and some Metallica

So we played-- we played some
Maiden and some Metallica

and some Pantera and some AC/DC.

And then I remember I played
a show in Dallas at a bar.

Which I was 15, so
I was not obviously

allowed to even be there,
but they made an exception.

My guitar teacher, who was a
great guy named Tony Hyatt,

he had a band.

And he let me sit
in with the band,

and we played Jimi Hendrix's
"The Wind Cries Mary."

And I mean, I practiced that.

And I mean, I practiced that.

(IMITATING GUITAR) Doo,
doo, doo, doo, doo.

[VOCALIZING] I
still play it wrong.

Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo,
ba, boo, doo, doo, doo.

Doo, doo, doo, doo.

Da, da, doo, da.

Whatever it is.

I play it wrong still,
but I play it my way.

So my aunt and uncle are a
jazz duo called Tuck & Patti.

Tuck plays amazing
finger-style guitar.

Patti has an amazing voice.

And they invited me to
come out on tour with them.

So I went out as their tour
manager when I was 15 or 16.

So I went out as their tour
manager when I was 15 or 16.

The first place
we went was Japan.

My job was to set up all the
gear and test the connections

and learn how to
properly tech something

if something went wrong and
to basically just be a roadie.

One of the first things
my uncle had me do was

learn how to properly
roll a cable, which

it sounds like my new show.

But I'm so glad I
know how to do it.

But I'm so glad I
know how to do it.

Anytime I'm at a place
and I see someone, like,

wrapping it around, it
makes me want to die.

It's just the wor-- it's
like nails on a chalkboard.

It's the worst.

So how to probably
roll a cable, how

to test an outlet for
the proper voltage,

how to recognize
frequencies and learn

their corresponding notes.

So if you're
soundchecking, you can say,

can you turn 800 down 2 dB--

so the engineering vernacular.

But it was thrilling.

I mean, it was thrilling
to watch them every night.

I mean, it was thrilling
to watch them every night.

I just loved the road.

I loved the freedom of it.

I loved the idea that
anything was possible,

that you were going to be
in a new place the next day

and something new might happen.

And who are you going to meet?

And what are you going to see?

It was so formative,
and so fortunate

that I got to really see it.

And also have a respect
for all of the jobs

that happen on the road.

I was kind of at a precipice.

I was kind of at a precipice.

I mean, I was
obsessed with music.

I was playing in bands.

I was writing songs.

I was doing all the things.

I was recording
myself in my childhood

bedroom at my parents' house.

And I was-- but I didn't
know what the path forward

necessarily would be.

I knew I wanted to be a
musician, but I wasn't--

I was like, how do you do that.

And I was just--

I was going to go to
the University of Texas,

where, you know, a couple of
my sisters went-- great school.

And I guess I was
going to be like--

And I guess I was
going to be like--

I don't know, like
an art history major?

I don't-- I don't know.

And at the sort of final
hour, my aunt and uncle

called my mom and
dad and said, no, she

needs to hone her craft.

Like, she needs
to be a musician.

I had no idea that they
had that kind of confidence

in me, which is very heartening.

But also, I don't think
that my parents had any idea

that it was anything more
than, like, what a fun hobby.

that it was anything more
than, like, what a fun hobby.

She also likes to
play volleyball.

You know, it was kind
of in that same realm.

So that really-- that
was a sharp right turn.

So I went to music college.

I went to Berklee for about
three years and dropped out.

Kind of unbeknownst to my
parents, I moved to New York

to "make it."

I was back home with my parents
about three months later.

But shortly after I
moved back to Dallas,

But shortly after I
moved back to Dallas,

I joined a band called
the Polyphonic Spree,

and then all of a sudden
I was out in Europe,

touring, playing
guitar in a band,

being backstage and
being like, oh my god,

there's Kevin Thurston.

Or like, oh-- just being in
the world, like doing it.

And then that kind of became
a somewhat circuitous route

to where I am now.

But, uh, lucked out.

I cowrote and costarred in
a movie called "The Nowhere

Inn" with my best friend,
Carrie Brownstein, who

is an incredible artist in
basically every discipline now.

She's in a band
called Sleater-Kinney,

which is a really important
band to a lot of people,

very important to me as well.

She also starred in
"Portlandia" with Fred Armisen.

She's just, all around, truly
one of most brilliant people

I've ever met.

We got to work together, and
it was the most fun thing.

In this chapter, I'm going
to take you through the theme

from "The Nowhere
Inn" and peel it

apart layer by layer,
from the lyrics

to the songwriting process and
all the way through to some fun

studio tricks and effects.

One of the things
for the film was

we wanted there to
be a theme song that

was kind of the culmination
of the whole film,

and that you would see us
writing it along the way.

So we got together, and we
wrote this song in a day.

So we got together, and we
wrote this song in a day.

The original idea
of the song is we

were trying to think of
a metaphor for this place

that people can get to when
they've become so consumed

with their own identity
and their own myth

that they're in between a real
person and their own creation.

And we thought, well, that's
kind of like The Nowhere Inn,

like picturing
this rundown desert

motel where just
lost souls kind of go

motel where just
lost souls kind of go

to be in narcissism purgatory.

The first part of the song,
it's me talking to the driver

as I'm on my way
to The Nowhere Inn.

[MUSIC - "THE NOWHERE INN" THEME
SONG]

[MUSIC - "THE NOWHERE INN" THEME
SONG]

So all dialogue--
driver, do you mind?

Just turn off the radio.

We tried to use
dustier sounds, right?

Like things that felt dreamy
and desert road sounds.

When I think about
desert sounds,

I guess I think about almost
like spaghetti Western,

that kind of
Morricone film score,

where you can almost picture the
cowboy coming out of the saloon

where you can almost picture the
cowboy coming out of the saloon

doors with the woo-oo-oo, the
whistle and the tumbleweed--

acoustic guitar with
some Mellotron pads.

And so we kind of--

[MUSIC - "THE NOWHERE INN" THEME
SONG]

(SINGING) Oh, pick up
speed and sandwiches.

Sip that bag of--

When I say pick up
speed and sandwiches--

[MUSIC - "THE NOWHERE INN" THEME
SONG]

(SINGING) Oh, pick up
speed and sandwiches--

(SINGING) Oh, pick up
speed and sandwiches--

--track actually
speeds up 10 BPM.

So we start it at 90.

When we get to there, we
needed it to have some urgency.

So we added it.

And I'm literally saying,
let's pick up speed, and also

some Adderall or whatever.

Delightful.

[MUSIC - "THE NOWHERE INN" THEME
SONG]

(SINGING) At The Nowhere Inn--

I'm at The Nowhere Inn.

(SINGING) --wasted
on [INAUDIBLE]..

So really just like--

(SINGING) Here at
The Nowhere Inn--

--like a little bit
like Brazilian--

--like a little bit
like Brazilian--

again, trying to
channel these things,

just like Brazilian psych, where
you can picture the drummer

with like a cigarette coming
out of their mouth, just like,

we're all just
decrepit over here.

And we're playing like we are.

[MUSIC - "THE NOWHERE INN" THEME
SONG]

(SINGING) And then
I see [INAUDIBLE]..

And then this wee-oo-wee-oo--

scene change, BPM change.

All of a sudden, we
are in a '70s rock

odyssey with big Keith
Moon drum tom fills.

But this is also--

I want to show
you, there's two--

there are two drum
sets in this section.

[MUSIC - "THE NOWHERE INN" THEME
SONG]

And the two drum tracks
give it this extra bit

of propulsion and chaos.

(SINGING) Oh, there is no--

OK, again, scene change.

Now we go from something very
fast and frantic to something

that I was calling the devil
verse, because you know,

who's the person who greets
you at The Nowhere Inn?

And it's somebody who
confirms all your worst

fears about yourself.

Like, we knew we'd find
you here eventually, and--

Like, we knew we'd find
you here eventually, and--

(SINGING) [INAUDIBLE].

Been waiting for years to see
you in my everlasting mirror.

What I did here, because
I wanted to sing it,

but I didn't want my voice to
sound exactly like my voice,

so I took the whole track, and
I pitched it up one semitone.

And then I sang
over this section.

And then I put everything
back in its original key,

And then I put everything
back in its original key,

back down the semitone.

And so my voice has been--

it's been manipulated.

It was sung here, and
then it was pitch shifted.

So it just has a little
bit of an alien quality,

which was the point.

[MUSIC - "THE NOWHERE INN" THEME
SONG]

That line in particular makes
me chuckle every time in that--

just the idea of someone
telling you, like, you are--

you're the reason why your
mother cries every time.

That is just so dark and
sad that it makes me laugh.

Um-- OK.

So now we're in country dance
hall, sawdust on the floor,

but all the cowboys are
skeletons world, you know?

but all the cowboys are
skeletons world, you know?

I put pedal steel
in this section

to make it sound very
woozy with the bed.

And then I took that
little lap steel

solo, the [IMITATES GUITAR]
sort of "Black Hole Sun"

lap steel moment.

Background singing,
we're in nowhere.

Just picture like
people in purgatory.

So now we've come
back to the chorus.

But we're in a different key.

And we're also in
a different tempo.

[MUSIC - "THE NOWHERE INN" THEME
SONG]

(SINGING) where
are my [INAUDIBLE]

wasted on [INAUDIBLE].

wasted on [INAUDIBLE].

OK, so two drum
kits, just chaos.

Very Beatles-y kind
of bass playing.

And then guitar solo.

[IMITATES GUITAR]

[IMITATES GUITAR]

So it's just like,
where are you?

Where are you?

And then you're in a loop for
longer than you ought to be,

because that's what--

that's the loop that
you can get into.

That's neuroses.

It's just your brain running
through the same pattern

over and over and over again.

So the end was very much
kind of just like, oh, god.

So the end was very much
kind of just like, oh, god.

We're just stuck in this loop.

We're stuck in this loop.

And nothing gets resolved.

[LAUGHS] It just
ends, like life.

So I used a lot of
adjectives like woozy,

or drowsy, or just--

and made this kind
of face quite a bit.

But what I'm talking about when
I'm talking about that feeling

is, a lot of times,
things being really pitchy

and going in and out of pitch.

and going in and out of pitch.

And effects like chorus
can make you feel that way,

or if you're playing a guitar,
just bending it to like,

[GROANS].

You can bend things on keyboards
that have a pitch wheel.

And you can certainly do it
with your voice and any horns.

The culmination of
all those things

can make you feel really woozy.

Another way would be
something like a phaser, which

is basically sweeping through--

is basically sweeping through--

(DISTORTED) --the
EQ spectrum of what

you're doing and modulating
it slightly every time.

There are effects like tremolo,
which is taking a signal

and kind of writing volume.

[MUSIC - "THE NOWHERE INN" THEME
SONG]

OK, so I'll give you
an example of like--

this would be a--

[DISTORTED MUSIC]

And the thing with
tremolo is it's usually--

And the thing with
tremolo is it's usually--

it is a time--

it is time sensitive.

I'm free wheeling it right
now, but you're basically

taking the--

[DISTORTED MUSIC]

You're basically taking
the audio signal of it

and vacillating between
different volumes

at a particular BPM.

There is other effects--

There is other effects--

things like delay.

Well, I can give you an example.

Here's one I can
throw up very easily.

[DISTORTED MUSIC]

(ECHOING) OK, delay.

Very fun.

Delay is very fun.

Basically, delay-- you take the
signal, the original signal.

And then it gets multiplied.

Delay is super fun
and fun to kind of

toss on something
really quickly and then

have it go away, just like a
little bit of a jump start.

So--

[DISTORTED MUSIC]

[DISTORTED MUSIC]

(SINGING) --for years to see
you in my everlasting mirror--

This is a more--

a lot of people will talk
about this slap delay.

It's just a short delay
without any repeats

that was very popular in
Elvis recordings and things

like that.

It's also known as slap back.

So I'm going to adjust
the feedback of this.

[DISTORTED MUSIC]

[DISTORTED MUSIC]

So it's just like--

the feedback means
how many times

it's repeating and multiplying.

There's no hard and fast
rule with effects at all.

It's seasoned to taste.

My only thing is that it should
support the feeling of the song

and not get in the
way of the song.

That's my only
rule for anything.

That's my only
rule for anything.

It's like, ah, really try not
to get in the way of the song.

It's really fun to
write theme songs.

The great thing about
writing theme songs

is that you already
know what's happening

plot-wise in the movie.

So you can almost
reverse engineer

the lyrics to be things
that directly apply

to what's going on in the plot.

I think make things
with your friends.

Just like make things
with your friends.

It's awesome.

It's awesome.

I think there's a
certain porousness that you

have to have as an artist.

Well, not even that
you have to have,

that probably you
just, by nature, have.

The membrane between
you and the world

is just a little more porous.

It's just a little-- you're
a little bit more tuned

into certain things.

So much work is inspired
by other artists.

Somebody like Jenny Hotzer, who
does these giant projections,

Somebody like Jenny Hotzer, who
does these giant projections,

they're like advertising
slogans except their message

is very dire like "protect
me from what I want",

things like that.

I definitely was
thinking about her

when I was writing a song
like "Fear the Future"

because I was picturing "fear
the future" on a big billboard.

Memphis art was
something that was

really omnipresent during
my childhood in that it

was a big art
movement in the '80s

that you'd see filtered through
in films like "Beetlejuice".

Or you'd see these
kind of threads of it.

Or you'd see these
kind of threads of it.

And I just got really
obsessed with it,

again, and its color scheme,
and its clean design,

and its humor, and
absurdity, and just

worked with it on the
imaging for an album.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT "LOS
AGELESS"]

It was like sexy
"Pee-Wee's Playhouse,"

which is just
redundant, frankly.

Again, I was trying to take this
very brightly colored and kind

of almost animatronic
feel and then

of almost animatronic
feel and then

inject the performance
of sexiness into it

and just see what happened.

And part of that was because
that was the only way that I

could inhabit the idea of that
particular kind of sexiness,

was to sort of make a--

have it be absurdist.

You really can just take
things from any kind of art,

visual art, books
that you've read,

visual art, books
that you've read,

and just incorporate it
all into what you're doing.

I was reading a book by an
author named Lorrie Moore.

It was a great, great
book of short stories

called "Birds of America".

And it just happened
to be a story

about a woman going and
visiting the Blarney

Stone with her mother.

And her mother goes to kiss the
Blarney Stone and almost falls.

And this woman
who had previously

seen her mother as this very
oppressive force in her life

suddenly sees her
very vulnerable.

suddenly sees her
very vulnerable.

And so that was what
the story was about.

But she just happened to use
the phrase "birth in reverse"

to describe the way
that a cathedral opened.

And I was like, wow.

And that just started
sparking a million other ideas

of, well, what--

what is-- what is that?

I'm picturing the Big
Bang going in reverse.

So many things are
coming to mind.

And I was like, well, it sounds
like a great title for a song.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT, "BIRTH IN
REVERSE"]

(SINGING) It was a birth
in reverse in America.

(SINGING) It was a birth
in reverse in America.

I feel like, in the
past couple records,

certainly a color palette
has kind of come first.

And then you just
stick to the palette

so that you kind of keep
everything in the same world.

And then I had
dyed my hair blond.

And it was kind of all terrible
because I'd just done it

in the bathroom sink in Texas.

I wanted to look like an alien.

I didn't want to look friendly.

I didn't want to look relatable.

I didn't want to look like
a nice girl from Texas.

I wanted to look other
because I wanted to look how

I wanted to look other
because I wanted to look how

I felt inside, which was other.

I worked with David
Byrne on a record

called "Love This Giant".

We wrote the record
over a number of years,

just trading ideas back
and forth on the computer.

Originally, we were just
supposed to write a couple

songs for a night of charity.

But then we just kind
of got in the rhythm

and really liked it and kept
going and going and going

and really liked it and kept
going and going and going

until we had a record.

David's so brilliant.

One of the things I really
walked away with was he's

just willing to try anything.

When we were making demos--

one of the things that I found
so exciting that I ended up

incorporating into
my own work was, even

if he didn't know what the words
were, I'd get these demos that

were like, [GIBBERISH]

And then you're like, oh.

Oh, god, is he having a--

like, what's going on?

like, what's going on?

But it would be this
great, really cool melody.

And he's just working it out.

And the words, maybe
it's gibberish.

Maybe he's singing
just syllables.

And maybe there'd be some words.

But his way of just
being free enough

to find it, flinging at
the wall, see what happens,

try this, try that,
that was just so--

that was so exciting
because I think

I'd come at music from
a little bit more of a--

with a little bit more, I
don't know, trepidation.

with a little bit more, I
don't know, trepidation.

And also the fact that
David doesn't look back.

David's not-- David is
always looking forward

to his next project.

And his projects are in
wildly different fields.

He's designing a chair one day.

And he's writing a
musical the next day.

And he's working on a
neuroscience project

the next day.

It's-- there's really no end.

So I took that lesson.

I was like, well, yeah,
you can just make things.

I was like, well, yeah,
you can just make things.

For the tour, we worked
with a choreographer.

And I'd never worked with
a choreographer before.

In fact, I was kind
of scared of dancing.

I'm not-- I'd have to
be very drunk to get

in the dance at the
party or whatever.

I just was kind of
shy in that regard.

But we worked with
the choreographer

named Annie-B Parson, who
just absolutely blew my mind,

put me in my body in a
way that I had never been.

It's not about athleticism
or super skill.

It's not about athleticism
or super skill.

It all had to be things
that basically anybody could

do because we had
an eight-person horn

group in addition to a
drummer and a keyboard player.

And they were all
moving all the time.

And we were all
moving all the time.

So I would be playing
guitar but then also doing

my post-modern choreography.

So at first, I was
sort of resistant.

I was like, no, no, no, I'm
playing guitar in this song.

So I can't.

I can't do that.

I can't do that.

And she would just
slowly but surely, well,

what if you tried?

And the next thing you know,
I was just obsessed with it

and incorporated it
into my own work.

And one of the things I found
so wonderful about choreography

was it was ways that
I had never moved

my body, which isn't to say that
it was a super athletic thing.

It was just simply gestures
that I'd never done

It was just simply gestures
that I'd never done

and that were just kind
of inexplicably powerful.

I remember her giving me
a piece of choreography

where I leaned forward and
showed my neck to the audience.

And it was one of the--

it's like a shock went through
me the first time I did it.

It was like, wow, this is-- this
is a really emotional thing.

And I don't really know why.

And I found that was so
much of the choreography.

It puts you in your body in
a way that is just special.

It puts you in your body in
a way that is just special.

You can see just in the
way-- if you watch people

in the way they
move, you go, OK.

This is your center.

I think my journey as
an artist has probably

been to go from cerebral to
throat to more heart centered.

I know that there are
certain things that

are easier for me to tap into.

It's easy for me
to tap into rage.

It's easy for me
to tap into rage.

It's easy for me
to tap into sorrow.

It's easy for me to
tap into cynicism.

It's less easy for me to just
instantly tap into softness

and vulnerability.

But as I've grown and become,
I think, a better artist,

that stuff is--

it's there when I need it.

it's there when I need it.

It's accessible, which is nice.

The guitar--

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

--I've been playing
it for lots of years.

And at different
times, it's kind of

taken on different roles.

I've always been trying to
figure out all of the best ways

that I can be a songwriter
and also guitar player

and merge those two
things in a way that

is compelling or new and kind
of creatively satisfying.

is compelling or new and kind
of creatively satisfying.

I learned pretty early on
that I just wasn't satisfied,

you know, accompanying
myself with basic chords.

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

I always kind of wanted the
guitar to be doing more--

bumping around, bumping
around the melody,

being a percussive
instrument sometimes,

being a totally other voice
in the music other times.

being a totally other voice
in the music other times.

[GUITAR PLAYING]

I have some basic tips
for tone, effects pedals,

general ideas on
technique, and then

a general just overall
ethos about guitar.

Tone is-- wow.

Tone is so-- tone is so major.

First of all, if you're
a left-handed player,

First of all, if you're
a left-handed player,

know I mean this
about your left hand--

your right hand is
really important.

You want to make sure
that when you're playing

you're not holding
tension in your body,

because if you're holding
tension in your body,

it's going to come
out in the guitar.

So the more you can breathe
into it, the better.

I know that sounds a little
silly or a little basic.

But sometimes on stage,
I'll find myself scrambling.

But sometimes on stage,
I'll find myself scrambling.

And every time I'm
scrambling on the fretboard,

it's because I'm not
breathing and I've just

played a note that I'm not
sure how to recover from.

[LAUGHS]

I hear tone usually in my head,
and then I try to find it.

And more than that, I hear
guitar lines in my head

and then figure
out how to play it.

I would say some of my--

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

--ideas come from actually
just sitting down and playing

guitar.

But a lot of things are just
like, OK, I can hear the music.

But a lot of things are just
like, OK, I can hear the music.

Now I just have to chase
it down and transpose it

for this instrument.

If I'm going to write a
solo, usually what happens

is I've written a
melody in my head,

and then I go and find it--

of course, leaving room
for exploration here.

Again, I think your ears
are your best asset.

Ears and ideas,
that's all you need.

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

The guitar can be really--

it can sound like anything
you want it to sound like.

Right in front of
me is a pedal board.

It has phase,
which sounds like--

[FUNKY GUITAR PLAYING]

--that.

I mean, there's a long history
of playing with phase in style,

like kind of funk styles, like--

like a--

[FUNKY GUITAR PLAYING]

--stuff like that.

So that's more like
a really loose wrist

So that's more like
a really loose wrist

here and treating
the guitar more

like a rhythmic instrument.

[FUNKY GUITAR PLAYING]

Different sounds of the
guitar, I think, carry--

they carry with them a
certain kind of baggage.

And the baggage isn't bad.

It's just like context.

When I think about phase, you
know, I'm thinking about--

[FUNKY GUITAR PLAYING]

You're thinking about,
like, a lot of stuff

You're thinking about,
like, a lot of stuff

that was going on in the '70s.

The board also has--

it's an H3000.

It's basically a multi-effects
unit, so there's all kinds of--

[GUITAR PLAYING WITH MODIFIED
PITCH]

In this case, this is--

[GUITAR PLAYING WITH MODIFIED
PITCH]

It's a pitch effect.

There's a triad in here.

So--

[GUITAR PLAYING WITH MODIFIED
PITCH]

--that's quite pretty.

So you can get this nice,
like, [INAUDIBLE] things.

[GUITAR PLAYING WITH MODIFIED
PITCH]

[GUITAR PLAYING WITH MODIFIED
PITCH]

Kind of chime-y stuff.

There's a compressor, which
makes everything kind of sound

a little bit more
present, because it

takes your lowest lows
and your highest highs

and brings them closer together.

[GUITAR PLAYING WITH COMPRESSOR]

This can give us a very
Hendrix-y kind of tone.

It has this kind of effect.

There's a whole world
of other effects

There's a whole world
of other effects

that are definitely more in the,
like, "let's fuck some shit up"

mode.

[DISTORTED GUITAR PLAYING]

That world.

These are distortions
and overdrives.

I've got a reverb here.

So reverb is-- a digital reverb
would be simulating a space.

So reverb is-- a digital reverb
would be simulating a space.

[ECHOEY GUITAR PLAYING]

It adds dimension.

Basically what a
reverb is doing is--

[ECHOEY GUITAR PLAYING]

--pretending that you have
taken the signal of something

and put it in a specific space.

It says, just kidding.

You're in a cathedral.

[ECHOEY GUITAR PLAYING]

You can hear the tail on that.

Then we've got a--

[GUITAR PLAYING]

[GUITAR PLAYING]

--kind of a chorus-y thing.

So this is like a--

chorus is a pitch effect.

Lot of--

[GUITAR PLAYING]

Chorus was very
popular in the '80s.

When I think of chorus, I
think a lot about the Cure.

There was a song on a record
called "Strange Mercy" called

"Surgeon."

And I had this EQ pedal
that I was messing with.

And I had this EQ pedal
that I was messing with.

And basically, I just took all
of the low end of the guitar

out and kept just
the high frequencies.

I wanted the guitar to be
kind of needley and sharp.

So I wrote this part
inspired by the sound.

[FUNKY GUITAR PLAYING]

[FUNKY GUITAR PLAYING]

You get it.

But kind of a funk part,
kind of a finger style part,

that I just wanted it to
kind of work with the vocal,

kind of play where
the vocal wasn't.

I don't know-- kind of keep this
"de, duh, de, duh, de, duh, de,

de, de, de, duh, de,
duh, de, duh" going.

So that was the thought,
but it was really

inspired by the kind of all
high end, no low end sound.

inspired by the kind of all
high end, no low end sound.

There's a song
called "Rattlesnake,"

which I was listening to
a lot of Turkish music

and specifically this
artist called Selda, who

was a '70s Turkish folk star.

And the music is
like-- the rhythm

section is sort of like Led
Zeppelin-y, but it's a saz.

That's s-a-z.

It was the instrument
they're playing,

a Turkish instrument,
that's like-- the way you

play it is all sliding.

So I was like, oh,
that's such a cool sound.

So I was like, oh,
that's such a cool sound.

How can I sort of get--

approximate that sound?

You'd have to play a melody
all in one string, so--

and add compression
so you would take

as few reattacks as possible.

So like a--

[GUITAR PLAYING WITH SLIDING]

And a lot of like--

And a lot of like--

[GUITAR PLAYING WITH SLIDING AND
VIBRATO]

--that kind of stuff.

Like, overshooting the
note and doing vibrato is--

that's a big--

it's a big kind of trademark
of the sound of the saz.

So I was just kind of
trying to emulate that.

A lot of times
playing guitar, I'm

emulating the sound
of a human voice,

or I'm emulating instruments
that aren't guitars, even.

There's all kinds of ways to
modify the sound of the guitar.

Obviously one way is pedals,
but there's another way

that's just the more--

the craftier way, shall
we say, which is you

can do things like put paper
or paper clips in the strings.

This would be something
called prepared guitar.

But it's also a little bit of
a nod to great African guitar

But it's also a little bit of
a nod to great African guitar

players.

I'm thinking right now
of Ali Farka Touré,

who was a big inspiration
for the riff in a song called

"Cruel," which is like--

[GUITAR PLAYING]

So this sort of like--

that kind of paper in
your strings, like--

there's something kind of--

[GUITAR PLAYING]

--very natural, like, rattle.

--very natural, like, rattle.

[GUITAR PLAYING]

Stuff like that.

So there's a lot of
ways to get at tone

that aren't even just going
and buying a bunch of pedals.

You can put metal
in the strings.

This is a favorite of a lot
of New York downtown art--

you know.

you know.

[TINNY GUITAR PLAYING]

So you've got-- you've got,
like, a homemade ring modulator

right here.

It's-- you might have to do
a little bit of jerry-rigging

to get it to sound
the way you want.

But, like, pretty sick.

Playing with fingers,
because I play

with the pad of my fingertip,
is a sort of softer attack.

So with a pick you might have--

[LOUD GUITAR PLUCK]

[LOUD GUITAR PLUCK]

With a finger you have--

[SOFT GUITAR PLUCK]

I like having the flexibility
to do both because I--

[SOFT GUITAR PLUCKING]

--so I can play
"Girl from Ipanema"

at the Holiday Inn, which
is where I will die.

That's where--

[SOFT GUITAR PLUCKING]

That'll be my--

I'll keel over on stage
playing "Girl from Ipanema"

at a Holiday Inn in Tampa.

[SOFT GUITAR PLUCKING]

Stay tuned for tips on alternate
tunings and how to get unstuck.

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

Standard tuning of a
guitar is E, A, D, G, B,

E. That's how most
guitars are set up.

I found pretty early on that
when my guitar was tuned in E,

it wasn't a great
place for my voice.

Years ago, I just
started tuning down

a whole step, which makes
it a little bit more

a whole step, which makes
it a little bit more

complicated to transpose.

But I think, for me,
the guitar just lives

better a little bit lower.

It's-- the range of it gets to
live in places that my vocal is

not.

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

Sometimes I'll just--
I'll go and get

Sometimes I'll just--
I'll go and get

a tuning that I think
is really interesting

and then write three
songs on it really

quickly and-- because
all of a sudden

my normal finger positions are
sounding totally different.

So I'll get inspired by that
and then just run with it.

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

If I feel like I'm
stuck, then I'll

take a guitar that is
in Nashville tuning

and get this very
chimey, pretty--

and get this very
chimey, pretty--

pretty world.

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

In Nashville tuning,
the lowest four strings

are tuned up one whole octave,
so that all of a sudden I

have a new little
sonic landscape

to explore and discover.

And things sound
different because octaves

are in different places.

So the voicing of
the chord is going

to be different because where
the notes were, some of them

to be different because where
the notes were, some of them

might be in flipped octaves.

So we got this pretty--

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

Then the neck.

If I'm stuck on something, I'll
either go to different tunings

to play the same thing,
or I will tune my guitar

in sort of unexpected ways.

Sometimes I just will
go to random tunings.

Sometimes I just will
go to random tunings.

Let's try open D tuning.

I'm tuning the strings
to D, A, D, G, A, D,

also known as "dad-gad."

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

And this is just--

this is an open tuning.

But all of a sudden,
you have, like--

the same shapes--

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

--have a different tonality.

They have-- it's
different harmonically.

Suddenly the familiar
becomes the unfamiliar

Suddenly the familiar
becomes the unfamiliar

to you, which is
always exciting.

Always prepare to be
pleasantly surprised.

There's something
called glam tuning,

which is when you
tune everything

on the guitar to the same note.

It'll be in different octaves,
but it's all the same note--

definitely made popular
during the glam rock era.

So if we--

[ONE-NOTE GUITAR PLAYING]

So the guitar, pitchy as it is,
it is all tuned to one note.

So the guitar, pitchy as it is,
it is all tuned to one note.

Everything is--
everything is an E.

And I first kind of
thought about this

because I played
with a guy named

Glenn Branca, who was
famous downtown New York

musician/composer.

And I played in his
orchestra for 100 guitars.

There were 80 guitars,
and there were 20 basses.

And everyone was going--

[ONE-NOTE GUITAR PLAYING]

[ONE-NOTE GUITAR PLAYING]

It just-- then it created
this crazy mass of sound,

because the exciting
thing about this is it's--

it's natural chorus,
because you have--

even though the guitar is
all tuned to the same note,

there's going to be
fluctuations within those notes.

So you're going to get
this, like, woozy--

[ONE-NOTE GUITAR PLAYING]

[ONE-NOTE GUITAR PLAYING]

--sound no matter what.

Even if you-- this is
this guitar totally clean.

[ONE-NOTE GUITAR PLAYING]

And what happens is the--

when the notes, when the
frequencies are very close

together, they kind of
bounce off of one another

and create that--

[ONE-NOTE GUITAR PLAYING]

--kind of spacey sound.

So that's-- that was a
technique I used on the solo

for "Masseduction,"
which was a--

for "Masseduction,"
which was a--

which was that world.

[MUSIC - ST. VINCENT,
"MASSEDUCTION"]

(SINGING) Mass destruction.

Masseduction.

Mass destruction.

Masseduction.

Mass destruction.

Masseduction.

Masseduction.

Mass destruction.

Something like that.

[PLUCKING STRINGS]

Along the lines of playing
guitars with different tunings,

you can not only
change the relationship

between the strings,
but you can also

play guitars that are tuned
way down or really high.

This is a baritone
acoustic guitar.

This is a baritone
acoustic guitar.

And what makes it sound
different from other guitars

is that it's tuned down to a
B. And it has flat ones on it.

So there are two different
kinds of strings.

One is roundrounds, and
then one are flatwounds.

And flatwounds are a lot of
times known as a jazz string

because they have
a more muted tone.

because they have
a more muted tone.

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

But they sound really beautiful
in a lot of different contexts.

And it almost has--

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

--like almost like
a cello-esque sound.

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

And just-- it's just a really,
like, more delicate approach.

Again, I play with
my fingers a lot.

I used to watch my
uncle play guitar,

and he's the world's best
finger-style jazz guitar

player.

So I-- I would just watch
him play and try to pick up

bits about his technique.

I kind of like to keep the--

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

--have a thumb that's able
to sort of comp bass parts

--have a thumb that's able
to sort of comp bass parts

or be really dexterous.

[JAZZY GUITAR PLAYING]

[PLUCKING STRINGS]

Wherever you are, up 12 frets
there will be a harmonic.

There are natural harmonics
on the guitar at the fifth,

There are natural harmonics
on the guitar at the fifth,

seventh, and 12th frets.

But you can do what's called
artificial harmonics, which

is you take--

you put your fingers
on the fretboard.

And then 12 frets up
from that, you go--

[PLAYING HARMONIC]

--and you've got a harmonic.

You could do, like, a
little-- pretty little thing.

You could be like--

[PLAYING HARMONIC]

That's a fun trick.

And you can also play with the
naturally occurring harmonics

on the fretboard,
which would be like--

oh, here's a fun one.

[GUITAR STRUMMING]

And create entire melodies
out of those harmonics,

And create entire melodies
out of those harmonics,

just with tuning
and a light touch.

You just have to have
a light touch with it.

[PLUCKING STRINGS]

Right now, I'm kind of falling
back in love with the guitar

as in its kind of purest
form, in the not affected--

not trying to be anything else.

Just kind of going back to some
of my favorite guitar playing

Just kind of going back to some
of my favorite guitar playing

that is just really
fluid and wiggly,

and playing as softly as
possible to get the most tones.

And long bends, like really--

[BENDY GUITAR PLAYING]

Just like-- just really super
bendy and trying to get as much

Just like-- just really super
bendy and trying to get as much

emotion out of one
note as possible.

Just very fluid things that
go like this instead of things

that go like this.

[BENDY GUITAR PLAYING]

If you're on a stage,
it is a performance.

People are watching you.

People are listening to you.

They're coming to go someplace
else for an hour and a half.

It's your job to take them
there and go there with them.

I just like to
acknowledge that, and then

control what I can
control in the performance

control what I can
control in the performance

to make it the best possible
experience for the audience.

You get to bring in
everything that you

love into one place, the
visual art side, the movement

side, obviously, the music.

That's first and foremost.

The conceptual.

You know, that's
the place where you

get to create an entire
world on a stage for an hour

and a half to two
hours for people.

That's the best, and
there's no reason

not to just embrace that
fully and make it anything

not to just embrace that
fully and make it anything

you want it to be.

By the time the
audience sees the show,

it's very well-rehearsed.

The lights are in order.

Certainly as things go on, it
gets more and more well-oiled.

But I don't think an
audience should pay

to watch you figure things out.

I think they should
pay to see a show.

Performance tips.

I have so many.

And I have so many because
I have done things so wrong

And I have so many because
I have done things so wrong

so many times.

So eating.

When to eat to have energy for
the show, but not be lethargic.

Eat four hours before the show.

That is enough time to
digest, not feel bloated,

have enough energy,
and have your brain

back and functioning.

That's one.

Two, a lot of times you'll
see, oh, no, so-and-so

Two, a lot of times you'll
see, oh, no, so-and-so

canceled the tour
because they've

lost their voice from singing.

You don't lose your
voice from singing.

You lose your voice
from partying.

You lose your voice because
you went to the after party,

and you're like, yeah, thank you
so much, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Talking is the thing
that will do it.

Singing.

Sing all day.

You'll be fine.

Singing-- your voice is a
muscle, and like all muscles,

it can be trained.

it can be trained.

It can be worked out.

I mean, when I'm, like,
in the middle of tour,

it's like the
difference between,

you know, being scrawny
and being s bodybuilder.

Like it's just there.

It's there because I'm
using it all the time.

So warm up your muscles a
little bit before you play.

That's good, before you sing.

If you're a player,
warm up a little bit.

Even just holding the
guitar for me before I play,

it just does something to
my body where it centers me.

And singing before I
play, it's centering.

And singing before I
play, it's centering.

And if you don't want to do,
like, standard vocal warm-ups

and that kind of stuff.

Sing songs you like.

Sing songs that you like
with your friends backstage.

Harmonize.

Just be in music before
you go out on stage.

Don't go out cold.

That's hard.

You want to be so well-rehearsed
and so fluid in your body

and not holding any
tension when you

play that you can lose yourself
in it when you're actually

playing.

playing.

You want to be so rehearsed that
you're not thinking, oh, shoot,

is the bridge coming up?

Wait, where do I--

wait, where do my fingers
go for this section?

Because that will take
you out of the moment,

and the audience will feel
it, or they'll hear it,

that the song is wrong.

So that just alleviates
a lot of stress for me

if I'm so well-rehearsed that
everything is muscle memory.

And once it's committed
to muscle memory,

then I can be free.

then I can be free.

Then I can explore.

Then I can go off script.

But learn the melody
before you improvise.

Don't ever throw anyone
under the bus on stage.

Don't do that.

Somebody fucks up,
don't give them the look

because chances
are nobody knows.

I've seen some big artists
call people out on stage,

and it's just--

it just feels like sacrilege.

it just feels like sacrilege.

It just feels like, oh,
that's just horrible.

That's bad etiquette.

The shows are for the audience.

You might not want to
play that song that you've

played a million times.

Who cares?

It's not about you.

The shows are not about you.

The shows are
about the audience.

It's people who have taken
the dance off or, you know,

got a sitter, or they
worked at the job

got a sitter, or they
worked at the job

to get the money
to buy the ticket.

That's about them, and
that's a special thing

that you get to do
together and for them.

So play the fucking song.

Play the song that
everybody likes.

Just do it.

Hot tip.

Whatever shoes
you're going to wear

for the show, rehearse in them.

Find out if you can
actually stand up

Find out if you can
actually stand up

in them for an hour and a half.

I made a terrible
mistake in Japan one

time where I did not do that.

And I thought, oh,
these will be fine.

And then I got up on stage, and
about 30 minutes into the set,

I was like, I can't move my
ankles, and I can't move.

So I hope people can
dig it with me just

being the tin man over here.

Latex is a crazy one because
you are covered in sweat.

Latex is a crazy one because
you are covered in sweat.

You just have to dig that.

That's varsity level discomfort.

It's funny.

Sometimes-- because it's
live and it's adrenaline

and it's all the things--
sometimes something-- well,

you know, something with
the monitors is bad,

or I've had experiences
where I get very frustrated.

I just snap into
rage really quickly.

And sometimes it ends up
that people are like, wow,

And sometimes it ends up
that people are like, wow,

that was a great show.

And you're going, what?

I was so mad.

I thought I was doing so poorly.

I was in my head the whole time.

I couldn't-- and a great thing
to remember is that people

don't know.

People don't know what's
going through your head.

Half the time, even if you
think you made a mistake,

people didn't notice it.

Just keep going.

Just keep going, keep
going, keep going.

And if you're
reaching for a solo

And if you're
reaching for a solo

and you make a mistake, great.

Do it again.

Look, now it's intentional.

Look what I did.

What an interesting choice.

The great thing
about being on stage,

and one thing that
I have to remember,

is that no matter what happens,
you're not going to die.

So sometimes that's the only
thought that calms me down.

Well, I'm not going to die.

For my last record,
"Mass Seduction",

I did three
iterations of a show.

The first was this
solo show that

was kind of about my work
in chronological order.

And I played it solo
with backing tracks,

which was contentious.

But the show was more
like kind of tracing

the line and the roots of this
kind of more DIY, a little bit

the line and the roots of this
kind of more DIY, a little bit

scrappy, a little homemade,
into the present, which

was this hyper color
funny dominatrix.

Oh, so much fucking latex.

I was in athleisure
for a year after.

The latex phase--
those boots hurt.

They hurt.

You get them done, and they
put the padding in them,

and you go to the guy
that Beyonce goes to,

and you go to the guy
that Beyonce goes to,

but those boots fucking
hurt by the end of it.

It's so funny, too, like the
gearing up to do the show.

It was similar, I would
imagine, to gearing up

to do a big sporting
event, where I'm like,

ankle braces, check,
wrap the feet, check.

But I liked it.

And it was part
of the show that I

would be physically
uncomfortable

and also pushing
myself physically.

And I always like to be a
little bit uncomfortable,

whether that's physically
or emotionally.

whether that's physically
or emotionally.

Just makes me feel
alive, makes me feel

like I'm really onto something.

Keeps me on my toes, in
this case, very literally.

That show was a
lot about unpacking

for myself the idea of power
and also the idea of sexuality.

So when I was working with the
design of the stage outfits,

I was kind of going, what's
my idea of sexuality that's

I was kind of going, what's
my idea of sexuality that's

sort of like if an alien did
it, and if it was sort of so

classically sexy that it
was actually kind of funny?

And so that's where I started,
in a pleather bunny suit.

The record was a whole lot
about power, and about sexuality

and power, and how
different people

wield power and figuring out for
myself, how do I wield power?

wield power and figuring out for
myself, how do I wield power?

On both a really macro
scale, even the title

is this portmanteau
of "Mass Seduction".

And if you say it fast, it
sounds like my seduction.

And does that mean
I'm being seduced

or I am doing the seducing?

And also, the seduction
of the masses.

And also, the seduction
of the masses.

I remember for that
tour we did some video,

and I got very
obsessed with Mussolini

and watching
Mussolini do speeches.

It was always this,
and it was this.

So I remember at
the beginning, we

were shooting video
that was going

to play at the beginning
of the show, and it was me,

and I'm talking, but really,
I'm watching-- off screen,

I'm watching Mussolini and
trying to emulate Mussolini

go-- how's he moving his hands?

What's he doing?

And so by kind of aping
the gesture of power,

And so by kind of aping
the gesture of power,

but decontextualizing
it and making

it different and
strange, frankly,

you kind of get to
question what is power?

Who has it, and how do
they wield it, and--

god, the whole thing it's
just ridiculous, isn't it?

That first tour was almost
like a solo theater piece,

and then the second iteration
was a full band, large scale,

and then the second iteration
was a full band, large scale,

blistering, disturbing rock show
I called "I Am a Lot Like You".

That's one way of
approaching things.

But the other way is
I was just singing,

and I had my friend
Thomas Bartlett, who's

a beautiful piano
player, accompany me.

And we didn't practice at all.

I mean, we just showed up,
chatted, kind of played

through the thing a little
bit, like, oh, yeah, I

think it goes like that.

Yeah.

OK, sure.

Fine.

(SINGING)

(SINGING)

We'd just drink some tequila
and play for an hour and a half.

And those shows are some of the
most fun and emotional shows

I've ever played.

There's the excitement and
the freedom of spontaneity,

and the fact that you're
really only dealing

with two instruments.

You're dealing with
a voice and a piano.

And so everything is
this conversation.

And so everything is
this conversation.

Oh, you're going here?

Oh, that's exciting.

I'm going to follow you.

I'm going to go here.

Oh, you're pushing against it.

Oh, you're following me.

It's like such a
beautiful dance,

and I'm so glad that
I also got to perform

the songs in that context
because in some ways,

I feel like that was
an even better show.

I hate to say it
for the people who

bought the ticket
to the band's show,

but those were special
and very drunken.

but those were special
and very drunken.

(SINGING) I fear the future.

Right now my head
is at just playing

when I have something to
say and leaving space.

There have been
times in the past

where I will put a guitar thing
where maybe it doesn't even

need to be, because I had some
fear of, like, well, people

need to know I'm
a guitar player.

I don't care about
that at all anymore.

I don't care about
that at all anymore.

And ironically, it means me
playing so much more guitar.

It's a paradox in that way,
to have run from convention

in certain ways and then
find yourself back loving

what you loved about it
when you first heard it,

and coming back to
those influences.

A lot of times when you're
arranging and writing and more

in the production phase of
things and layering, you think,

well, the chorus
is going to happen.

well, the chorus
is going to happen.

We've got to add something.

Think the opposite.

Think, I'm going to take
something away here.

This piano part, this is
how we wrote the song.

Great.

Build a track up around it
and then remove the piano

and see what you get.

You can't use every
color in a song.

You have to pick.

Not every song
needs a guitar solo.

Not every song needs a big
distorted monster guitar.

Just try to serve the song

It's so much about
deciding what's going

to be the best big picture.

to be the best big picture.

And that big picture
isn't about ego

and planting your feet
in the space and going,

here's my macho moment.

Just kind of being way more
fluid with the whole thing.

I think no matter what the
genre, there's a lineage

and there's a DNA
that you can feel.

Like John Coltrane in "The
Love Supreme," just wailing.

Like John Coltrane in "The
Love Supreme," just wailing.

You can hear that
spirit in punk rock.

You can hear that
spirit in hip-hop.

No matter the genre,
this kind of grasping,

reaching for more is
present in all kinds

of music, in every
kind of music.

The great thing about
music is that you

get to be a part of this lineage
for a brief period of time.

And the greatest thing
you can possibly do

is get to give back
to this lineage that

has given you so much.

Music is the gift
that keeps on giving.

It really is.

The more you do,
the more you can do.

The more you do,
the more you can do.

You could study it
your whole life,

you could play it
your whole life,

and you will never even
get close to its edges.

Everybody, good luck.

I hope this was
valuable in some way.

And remember that the best
thing you could possibly be

is be yourself.