Original subtitles

what I do to this day. I mean, you know,

Sherlock is a really good example of

this where I would get I would cast my

player partly because I've heard them

before and partly because of who I know

they are, you know, um, as a human

being, as an actor. And I and I would

just get them in. I would, you know, we

would just sit and chat with the

instrument and go, "Okay, tell me what

you can do." But, you know, no, no, no.

I want a bit more, you know. What What

is it the instrument?

We did this a lot on Interstellar um

with the woodwinds going now that I know

each one of you has a sound that every

that that you were never allowed to

play. What is that sound? and you just

enter into the conversation. I mean, on

this last Batman and Superman film, I

needed to find a sound for Wonder Woman.

Um, you know, and at first I went the

obvious route, which was, you know, like

a female voice. I went, "Oh, God, I've

done that a thousand times, you So, so

that's solid. And then I suddenly

remembered a female chalist friend of

mine, Tina Guro, who plays electric

cello. And she is

when she comes into the room, she's one

of the most polite and humble and quiet

people, you know, very reserved,

very shy.

But when she grabs the cello, she has a

certain way of grabbing the cello and

moving the bow in front of it. It's like

some ninja warrior princess and all hell

is unleashed. So, so, so I had the

phrase written and the phrase was, you

know, it was a

tiny little phrase, but all I tried to

do is get Tina who's speaking to me with

best manners to become

the banshee that I knew she could be

once she because people are different

when they have their instruments in

front of them. you know the the

they can express something that they

keep hidden from you. And the whole

point the whole point of this room the

whole point of what I what I try to do

with them is I try to trick them into

the comfort of expressing all that they

can express. And with Tina I mean

literally it we spend a week on this

phrase just honing this honing the

performance of this. And I I remember

the first time

playing it to the director and his

producer wife, you know, they were

sitting on on the couch and without

saying anything, I you know, had the

picture running and then then that

phrase came in and

it was a physical shock to them in in a

good way.

It made them nervous. It made them

anxious. It made them really excited

because you know I I I transformed the

character. But it was it was

really really

two things. One knowing what the cello

can do or not knowing what the cello can

do and really having the conversation

about I know it can play pretty but what

else can it do? And stopping this idea

that you want to have a cello. I don't

want to have a cello. I want Tina Guo.

That's who I want. And I do that with

with all of my players. I need to know,

you know, I I it's not the string

section. If if you think of it as the

string section, you you know, you might

as well go into the fields and hire a

bunch of sheep. That's not the point.

The point is that you want to handpick

every individual player for their

strength.

You're talking to a guy doing

blockbuster movies here and everybody's

forever, you know, it's Like everybody

thinks money is no object and maybe that

is what is keeping people from wanting

to become film composers because they

don't know how they're going to hire the

huge big orchestra etc. And they think

that's all necessary and it's not you

know it's like find a great player have

a great friend you know have somebody

somebody can make a fantastic noise on

one instrument. I mean, this is Alexi

Gurusman, who's one of my oldest friends

and um an extraordinarily great actor as

much as a violinist.

Sometimes it feels important to me to to

go and make scores which sound

huge through their emotional intention

as opposed to, you know, having 102

people playing indifferently.

Um, whenever people talk to me about why

they can't do something, oh no, I don't

have the money or I don't have the

opportunity or whatever, you have the

opportunity, you know, get a cardboard

box with a rubber band and mic it with

your cell phone and you might come up

with something really interesting. Um,

that's the job. Be creative. invent. At

the end of the day, the biggest effect I

can get, the the thing which makes it

real, the thing that that legitimizes it

as an emotional experience is to get one

player who's just going to play his ass

off. Um, and so I cast very carefully. I

mean,

you know, I picked this score sort of on

purpose because it's

um curiously underwhelming in its

forces. You know, it's just a few people

in a room as opposed to the huge

symphony orchestra, which is what

everybody assumes a film score should

be. But I think if you listen if you

listen to a great string quartet, you

know, play a Beethoven string quartet

with,

you know, full commitment to the notes,

it'll sound better than any it'll sound

bigger than than the biggest orchestra

you can possibly have. Cuz I think what

really truly resonates is is the intent

and the commitment of a performance. Cuz

I think at the end of the day, that's

that is is what the score is supposed to

do. The score is supposed to forever get

you back to the specifics, you know,

maintain specificity with the character

and with the story.

There's nothing that

uh

that an instrumentalist enjoys more than

showing off what their instrument can

do. So, look, I'm a synth geek. So when

when I I meet another synth geek, we're

going to be talking until all hours

about oscillators and filters and all

sorts of stuff, you know. So if you if

you turn this conversation over to cello

or violin or, you know, hey, I didn't

know how the timber lom worked. It looks

impossible to me, you know, and you sit

down with the guy and you say, what can

you do? and oh this and and and and what

can you not do? You want to write

something which is sporty and

challenging you know which gives them a

bit of some you know you know they don't

you don't want them to sleep through the

session. Um but at the same time you

don't want to ever do something which is

not which is awkward under the fingers.

I mean there's always a different way of

solving it.

You always want to write up to the

strength of the instrument. You want to

write up to the strength of the player.

So, for instance, what works well with

certain players might not work well with

other players as well. Um, I mean, I can

I can be as specific as this that a

French horn isn't a French isn't a

French horn from country to country. Um,

here in Los Angeles, they use much

bigger mouthpieces so that it's a

rounder, warmer sound, while what I use

on Batman Batman is the London guys who

have these small mouthpieces. So, so you

get that bright, brash, opinionated

tone. And then in Vienna, it's a whole

other thing, you know. So,

yeah, you're going to get caught out at

the beginning. you're going to find out

that the tuning on on the in continental

Europe is three hertz sharper than it is

anywhere else in the world. Um, and your

tracks are suddenly sounding a bit

different. Um, it's just information and

then after a while if you've been

hanging with players and you've been do

you've been doing things it becomes

knowledge. You know how to go and

use it to your advantage.

I mean,

a violin is a piece of wood with some

dead bits of cat on top, you know?

That's it's but it's a piece of

technology. They're all pieces of

technology. And it's just um over the

years, people have learned how to make

that technology express emotion.

And I suppose when I started out playing

around with computers, I mean that that

was the whole idea, you know. It's like,

oh, can I can I go and cajul this piece

of technology into um expressing some

form of emotion?

So that's the Sherlock theme from

Sherlock one. We needed to challenge

ourselves a bit and and and

figure out a new way of telling it. And

you know when I when I said that in the

first one I was thinking about this

whole idea that

Sherlock

might be looking a little beyond the

classical violinists

and that he was really interested in the

gypsy violinists.

I phoned up Guy and I said, you know,

for this one I think we got to go a bit

on a road trip. And so cutting a story

short, we managed to figure out a way of

going to Slovakia and every morning

getting up at 5:00 in the morning and

going from one Roma camp to the next and

just listening to all these amazing

musicians

um and sort of going, "Oh, amazing

violinist, amazing clarinetist, amazing

timber player, amazing accordionist.

Um

and we just you know all the all all the

best ones were you know all the ones we

we tr I mean there's so many I mean this

this was the you know this was the great

discovery you know that in the middle of

Europe there is a world that nobody

knows about because they're complete

they live in complete isolation because

they're basically hated by everybody and

so you know the the the the sort of the

racism is just out of control about how

much the the the gypsies are loathed,

etc. Um, and how they can't get jobs.

So, the only thing they can really do is

become extraordinary musicians. It's

part of the culture. And so, I think it

was some of the happiest time of my life

just being there. Uh,

I don't speak Roma. We, you know, at one

point it was like half of my crew spoke

English, some spoke German, some had to

speak Slovak, Russian, but nobody spoke

Roma. So, at first it was all this

stilted stuff of trying to work through

translators. And then finally I just had

enough and I just started playing and we

just started playing and you know 4

hours go by nobody has actually uttered

a word but

you know and at first they were a little

hesitant you know and you know after

about an hour I'm sort of getting the

you know the raised eyebrow when I play

a wrong note. So I know where we're now

heading the right way that we're

becoming some sort of a band. So once I

found my musicians, you know, um we

brought them all into a bus, took them

to Vienna and just got into the studio

and started, you know, I I just went

here here are the themes, guys, you

know, now go and interpret them, you

know, I just gave them complete freedom

to do whatever they wanted to do with

them. Um, and I mean, and this is this,

you know, this is one of those things

because I just thought there was there

was something to be had, you know,

we're telling this crazy fantasy movie,

but there but there is there's a part of

this world that still exists, you know,

where people play like this. I mean, it

was very interesting having Alexi

Iguzzman again with me who's such an

extraordinary violinist

and has such an extraordinary

instrument.

him in the room with the gypsy

violinists and he would play one note

quietly and it would be so loud because

his instrument is so good. And these

guys having to and you suddenly realize

that part of their style comes from,

you know, those are cheap instruments.

It's the best they can afford and and

the only way they can go and make them

sound good is is by playing. they have

to compensate for the lack of great

instruments by the amount of passion

they put into it. So, and you know, and

and that's of the thing you're trying to

hunt down all the time. You you you you

want authentic passion. Um, so you know,

and once you feel solid enough about

your tune, you know, I just like to of

just sort of throw it in the middle of

the room and go, "Okay, guys, whatever

you want to do with it, set fire to it,

you know, whatever it is, you know,

let's just see where you can take it

because I know the notes are strong

enough to take all sorts of abuse and by

abusing them a bit, they'll probably

become more interesting.