All language subtitles for MasterClass Danny Elfman Teaches Music For Film - 14.Chasing a Moving Edit

[MUSIC PLAYING]

How to find the tempo
of an editor is a really--

it's something I learned
way back at number one,

"Pee-Wee's Big Adventure."

And I was trying to teach
myself, how do I catch cues?

I was in the breakfast machine.

I was in a couple
of different cues.

And I realized it wasn't
that difficult. But then I

also realized later why
it wasn't difficult.

It wasn't difficult,
because I had a good editor.

And Billy Webber, who was
the editor on that film,

did a really good job.

And what I discovered
was that I didn't

have to count anything out.

I was intuitively finding
the pace of the editing.

And if I found
the editor's pace,

making things fall
where I wanted

to was just magical and easy.

And I thought, wow, this
is, like, so much easier

than I thought.

I'm starting a phrase here.

And it ends right, boom--

right on that-- wow,
how did that happen?

Well, it wasn't magic.

I just didn't know
it at the time--

that the editing
had a pace to it.

And I found that
editor's rhythm.

And once I found that
rhythm, making things

hit and fall where I
wanted it was really easy.

Now here's the hitch.

First version of a film--

early versions are usually the
best paced with the editing.

There's a point--
not the rough cut.

But it's an early cut.

And you're finding
that you're scoring it.

And, wow, I'm making everything
fall just where I want it.

I'm not fighting it
to make it happen.

And now, over the next
eight weeks or 10 weeks,

the film is going to tighten,
and tighten, and tighten.

And there's a
number of screenings

that are going to happen.

And as the screenings
are going to happen,

notes are going to come back.

And then things start
getting shorter,

and things start
getting tighter.

And all of the sudden,
they're saying,

oh, you got to redo this cue.

And you can't make it work.

And it's like, Jesus, I'm
fighting it right now.

And that's because towards the
very end in the 11th hour--

I don't know whether
all editors necessarily

realize this or not.

I don't think
directors really do--

they're losing their pace.

They're losing their tempo.

And I can't tell you
how many films I've

worked on that,
between what I thought

was the final-ish cut that I
was scoring and the cut that

was released, it's
two minutes shorter.

It's three minutes shorter.

It's no big deal.

But it feels longer.

And it feels longer, because
lots of little cuts--

many, many many
little cuts happen.

And a little bit of breathing
room is cut at these moments.

It becomes like a fear
factor that happens, where

it's like, there's a dead spot.

Bam, cut it.

And the tempo
starts to disappear.

And now, as the composer, we're
stuck in this terrible place.

This is where the sound
effects guys are really lucky.

Because the individual
effects, you just

tighten, and
tighten, and tighten.

And you go with it, and you go
with it, and you go with it.

But when you're in tempo, and
you've got 4/4 and 3/4 going,

and you've got a tune
that's happening,

and suddenly you just
can't make it hit anymore,

that's a desperate problem.

And you start doing
all these tricks

that you have to learn
over time of, like, I've

got to make a 3/4, 4/4, 3/4.

I have to add in extra beats.

Or I have to make a 4/4
suddenly 2/4, 4/4, 3/4, 4/4.

I can't make it
work any other way.

And you're trying to disguise
these cuts in your melody

to sound natural.

So I started learning
many, many years ago,

OK, now I've got my tune.

But I have to add two beats,
make it a little crescendo,

and it goes into the
next beat of the melody.

And try to make it sound like
that's how I intended it,

even though it's not.

And so you're always
looking for a way

to make it sound-- no, no,
no, that's how I intended it.

That's how the melody is
supposed to be played.

Whereas, originally, it
was all perfectly in time

and fit the scene beautifully.

It no longer does.

So when you're in an action
cue, that's a different story.

You tend to be working and
start, stop, start, stop.

You're talking--
we're in Ostinatos

patterns, rhythmic things.

And you find you can just
cut them, and make it work,

cut them, and make it work,
cut them, and make it work.

And you'll find that, OK, this
is just-- it's a lot of work.

But it's not seriously
compromising the music.

This is the biggest problem
with thematic composition.

You've got a tune, and
you're playing the tune,

and it used to work.

But now they've cut just
enough seconds from it

that nothing you do makes
it happen gracefully.

And you'll either, like, invent
and go, ah, I've done it.

Or you end up just
sad, going, well, this

is how people are
going to hear it.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

What is the technique
for how to get

into and out of an
idea or even a note?

And where this becomes
particularly perplexing is--

I've finished a composition.

I feel this works.

And now the scene's
completely changed.

And it's not just the cut.

It's not just an extension.

They've shuffled
some scenes around.

But you really
like what you did.

So, OK, I'm taking this section.

I'm taking this section.

OK, technically, I only have
to write 25 seconds new.

On the surface, you
go, 25 seconds new.

But it doesn't work.

Because I can't get
out of where I was.

And I can't get into
where I want to go to.

And it becomes mind
boggling when to start--

OK, I didn't used to
carry this note this long.

But if I don't, I feel it stop.

And then I feel the
next thing start.

This is always a perplexing
question film scoring,

the absence.

You got something playing
for the long note.

You stop.

Well, that absence
becomes noticeable.

And now you start again.

That becomes noticeable.

And so there's always
that temptation.

Can I join those two?

I don't want my audience to
feel the stop and the start.

Now, there's bold
composers in the past--

and Bernard Herrmann
was certainly one--

that didn't stress
over things like that.

He stopped when
he wanted to stop.

And he started when
he wanted to start.

And devil be damned, it's,
like, that's where we're going.

But very frequently,
I'm trying to find a way

to get out of something
and into something.

And what should have been 22
seconds of a rewrite on a score

ends up becoming a
minute and a half.

It ends up being
half the cue simply

because I couldn't find a
graceful way to get out,

and I couldn't find a
graceful way to get in.

And no matter what I'm doing,
I was feeling this absence

of this missing part
that used to join

these things in a graceful way.

They're no longer there.

And so it starts spreading.

It's like an infection
that spreads.

It's just like you're--

I only got 22 seconds.

I could just do that tonight.

And you end up rewriting
a big chunk of cue.

And at a certain point, I
re-wrote half the fucking cue.

And that's because that
little bit carried an element

that I could no longer find
that invisible way of connecting

these ideas.

And there's no simple
solution to that.

You've just got to feel
your way through it.

And that's another rough one.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

How does one synchronize music
with picture, especially--

obviously, not all pictures
take a lot of synchronization.

There's beautiful scores
that don't actually

hit a lot of action.

And then we've got superhero
movies and animation movies,

where you're hitting
a lot all the time.

How does one do it is a
really difficult question.

In the old days, they had a
thing called a click book.

And they actually mapped
out the amount of time

between two things, how many
clicks at a certain tempo

they needed to do it.

And they worked it out that way.

Thank god I came in just
at the end of that period,

because I would have
been terrible at it.

They say music and math
are so tied together.

Well, here I am to
tell you, bullshit.

I'm shitty at math.

I always was.

I don't have a good
math abilities.

I never did.

And it's never been a problem.

It's never been an impediment.

Of all the deficiencies I
have, that wasn't one of them.

I never needed math.

And the reason is is
that your intuition

will start to tell you--

and you start to feel--

this is going to happen here.

OK, I'm actually one beat early.

Now, how do I do the
same thing I just did,

but I've just got to add
one beat-- bam, dead on.

You don't have to calculate it.

You feel it.

And then you adjust.

Maybe, as I've
mentioned once before,

you found the editor's tempo.

And it's subconsciously
playing in your mind,

because the tempo you
happened to choose

ends up being a tempo
that ran in the background

of the editor's mind.

Or maybe he was listening to
a piece of music in headphones

while he was--

I don't know.

There's many reasons an editor
gives a tempo to a scene.

And perhaps you've
lucked into that.

When I was on "Pee-Wee's Big
Adventure," I had so much fun.

I thought it was going
to be the hardest

thing in the world figuring
out how to catch things.

It wasn't the hard part.

It was the fun part.

I figured that, as I
started to write things,

I need to end up--
here's my spot right now.

Wow, that was really close.

It wasn't dead on, but I'm
probably only 20 frames off,

or a beat too long,
or a beat too early.

Now you've done a whole phrase.

It's very easy to adjust.

You may be either--

if it's really
close, you don't even

want to add or subtract a beat.

You want to adjust the tempo
just a little bit, and nail it.

And that might just be
one beat per minute,

two beats per minute.

You might give a slight
shift in your tempo.

Or you might add or subtract
a beat or something like that.

But that's the fun part.

And my real joy
in "Pee-Wee" was--

there's a scene where
he's writing in the park.

And he's singing in the way that
Pee Wee does-- la la la la la

la la la la la la la.

And I said, I want to
turn that into a song

and make it sound
like he's singing--

not a song with a melody.

But I want to make it sound
like he's hearing the music

and singing along with it.

And I found-- this
is so much fun.

I found a way to do it.

(SINGING) La la la la
la la la la la la la la.

But that was a real
telling moment for me.

Because once I did that, I
feel like I could handle just

about anything.

And so it was just
one less thing

I had to worry about as I
entered from my first film

into film scoring.

I no longer was afraid of how to
find my timings, and my beats,

and catch what I
wanted to catch.