Original subtitles

Some breaking news out of Long Island, New York.

I'd like to report that we found human remains.

Four bodies wrapped in burlap,

dumped alongside Ocean Parkway.

The so-called "Gilgo Four"

were all petite women,

all under five foot five, and they were all sex workers.

Police excavate an apparent serial killer's

dumping ground.

The murders of two more women.

Bringing the total number to six.

Now to a major development in the Gilgo Beach murder case.

A seventh murder.

Find this killer before he strikes and hurts

and murders someone that you love.

And then, after 13 years,

this bombshell drops.

Major break in a cold case,

a suspect now under arrest in connection

to the unsolved Gilgo Beach murder.

Rex Heuermann, a longtime resident

of Massapequa Park, Long Island.

The 59-year-old architect and father of two.

Rex Heuermann is a demon that walks among us.

This is like a modern day horror story.

The idea that the wife didn't know anything

about what he was doing is hard to believe.

They're telling me that my husband is alleged

to be some horrific serial killer.

No freaking way is this man going out,

soliciting sex from a sex worker, killing them,

and dumping them on Gilgo Beach.

He had a room specifically built in his basement

that even his wife was not allowed to enter.

We recovered numerous electronic devices

from the defendant, including laptops, smartphones, tablets.

Investigators were able to forensically extract

this planning document.

He's getting drop cloths.

He's getting booties for his shoes,

hairnets so that his hair won't get on the victim,

or so he hopes.

Investigators say they matched hair fibers

that were found at six of the seven crime scenes.

They matched this DNA to Rex Heuermann and his family.

It's so hard to even believe the fact that,

you know, he's this sick killer.

Prosecutors saying this,

but my memory says this.

Prosecutors in Suffolk County say they are ready

to take accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann

to trial for the murders of seven women.

Heuermann has pleaded not guilty.

Rex would have to tell me

face to face

that he killed these girls

for me to believe it.

No, it's...

I don't believe my husband did this.

Today could mark a pivotal moment

to a case that's rocked the tri-state area for years.

This morning, a possible change of plea

for accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann.

At 11:00 AM, he is expected to confess to

and admit to each of the murders in court.

But his attorney, not yet commenting.

Heuermann is accused of killing seven female sex workers

whose remains were found near Gilgo Beach

and elsewhere on Long Island, New York,

between 1993 and 2010.

Heuermann's family meanwhile has not commented

on the expected plea today.

You just gotta back up for a few minutes.

Let her get out of the car, please.

After we have the proceedings today,

we'll have a statements to make.

Both, myself and Asa will make a statement, okay?

Just say one thing today?

Say one thing?

There's nothing to say at this point,

we don't know what's gonna happen at 11 o'clock.

Come on. Good morning, Laura.

Jody.

What was the question? Just go ahead.

They've been processing this for the past 33 months.

We're prepared for whatever's gonna go on

in the courtroom today.

Asa and Victoria both prepared for that

and she has said consistently since day one,

she wants to hear this and see this play out

in the courtroom.

Coming out, judge.

My name is Bob Macedonio.

I'm an attorney.

I practice in the areas of criminal defense,

matrimonial and family court work.

Rex, did you do it?

Less than 48 hours after Rex Heuermann's arrest,

my firm received a call from Asa Ellerup,

who was Rex Heuermann's wife.

Asa would like me to express

she's going through a very difficult time.

When we first were retained by Ms. Ellerup,

the media frenzy was chaotic.

Rex Heuermann's wife

and the suspect's adult stepson

was seen crying on the front porch.

They were parked outside of her office across the street.

They followed her 24/7.

They were stationed outside of her house for months on end.

My office played every role for the family.

We were therapists. We were counselors.

We were financially helping them.

There was no money.

Rex was the sole financial supporter of the family.

Victoria worked for Rex.

Her job was obviously terminated

when they arrested Rex and the office was closed.

You have a family completely turned upside down

and it basically says the way you think you've been living

for the past 30 years

is not really what's been happening.

So they were distraught,

and I personally thought they needed professional help

with the psychological issues that they're dealing with.

So I brought in Alison Winter, who's a therapist

that my partner and I have known for 20-plus years

and works with a lot of our clients.

We trust her.

You're on speaker.

I'm Alison Winter.

I'm a psychotherapist and I'm a family counselor.

Bob Macedonio calls me up and asks...

MACEDONIO [ON PHONE}: Have you ever heard of the Gilgo Beach murders?

I said, "Yes, of course." And he said...

MACEDONIO [ON PHONE}: I need you to take on the family.

At this point,

their friends wanted nothing to do with them.

Their family wanted nothing to do with them,

and they really needed someone they can speak with.

I am grounded in family work.

It's important for me to understand the dynamic

they were living in as a daughter, as a wife,

as a son.

So Rex had to be a part of this process.

Sure.

Absolutely.

After the second search of the Heuermann home,

and about a year after the arrest,

Rex is done.

He's tired.

Rex shares with me he'd had a conversation

with his lawyer.

He sat Mike Brown down and he said,

"I need to tell you that I'm guilty of all of this."

And he said, "I had to tell him certain things,"

were his words.

So in the spring of 2025, Rex Heuermann,

through his attorney, starts discussing a proffer agreement

with the District Attorney's Office.

And what a proffer agreement is,

is a defendant on any criminal case will come over

and meet with the detectives or the task force

in a fashion that is protected

to the extent anything that is said at that proffer

would not be able to be used at a trial

against Rex Heuermann.

The proffer sessions sets the table

for plea negotiations to begin.

And we say plea negotiations,

we're not talking lightening of a sentence.

You're doing life in jail without parole.

That's not going to change,

but there is a benefit to both sides to have a plea.

You're sparing seven victims' families from hearing

the gory, graphic details

of what happened to their children,

their sisters, their moms.

The potential benefit to Rex would be

you could kind of negotiate where you will be sentenced

and how your sentence will be served.

Also, the benefit to Rex is to protect

the narrative of what his family hears.

Whatever love they have left for him,

I believe would be erased if they heard the details

of what he did to these young ladies.

Come in.

Hey. Hi.

Asa, how are you?

Good to see you.

Here, have a seat.

So good to see you.

One of the conditions Rex had to take a plea

was to meet with his wife and his daughter separately

in a private meeting before making a public plea.

And he would answer any questions.

Nobody knows about this meeting.

This was set up by Rex.

He's been very supportive to the process of

sitting with you

so you can hear the truth from his mouth

because you need that.

I do.

To believe, to live, to grow, to heal.

And you need to hear it from him.

- Yes. - And he owes you that.

He owes you that.

He does owe you. - Yes.

I want to hear the truth, period.

I'm going to this meeting because I need to hear it.

I wanna hear it from his mouth.

Okay.

Because hearing him tell me,

am I going to see it?

We've worked so hard for this to happen.

This is unprecedented.

It is.

Early on when I recognized that as long as Rex

was going to keep lying to his wife,

there was no way I was gonna be able to ground her

because he has such a big influence on her.

Anything Rex said overwrote everything.

So it wasn't denial.

It was real to her.

My husband's a family man.

He's incapable of this.

So I knew the more Rex fed her that "I'm innocent,"

she wouldn't be able to move on,

and ultimately, that would've destroyed her existence.

She needs to live and accept what she can

and she needs to move forward.

We've been working for a very long time,

two years and one month

to get to this moment.

I'm scared.

There's no doubt about that.

I'm nervous,

but I have questions to ask

and I'm gonna need him to answer them for me.

Number one is, "Did you kill any of these women?"

Then there would be,

"Okay, how many of these women did you kill?"

I need to hear from him whether he did this or not.

I can't process things I don't know.

Well, a process is to see the truth,

hear the truth.

The hardest part of this whole story is that it's possible

that I was married for 29 years

to a serial killer.

Well, I mean, you're in the end of discovery.

We're entering trial phase.

And when you talk about the number of witnesses,

the number of documents in this case,

it's a dizzying amount of information.

Without a doubt,

the Long Island Serial Killer case

and the trial of Rex Heuermann is going to be the biggest

in Long Island history.

We'll have over a hundred witnesses

coming in from 15 different states.

There's never been so much interest

and controversy surrounding a case.

I mean, Gloria Allred showed up

to advocate for the victim's families.

The courthouse door should never be shut

to any woman who is victimized by gender violence.

It is long overdue to provide justice

for vulnerable women who are missing and murdered.

We gave the defense well over 100 terabytes

of information alone.

And if you took a terabyte

and you printed out all that information,

it'd take you about 6.5 million pages.

So we have well over 120 of those terabytes.

It's going to be one bombshell after the next.

All these questions we have,

everything we've been speculating about.

If there is a trial,

they will have to be addressed.

Everything we don't know about,

all the evidence they have that we're imagining they have,

we're gonna find out.

Rex Heuermann's attorneys are pushing

to hold as many as five trials.

Trial one,

the first three of the Gilgo Four discovered,

Amber Costello, Megan Waterman, and Melissa Barthelemy.

A second trial for Maureen Brainard-Barnes.

And third, fourth, and fifth trials

for Jessica Taylor, Sandra Costilla,

and Valerie Mack.

The danger of having count after count,

victim after victim in the same trial

is that "smoke, there's fire" mentality.

They shouldn't be tried together.

Asa, have a seat.

Long day.

Yes.

It's not every day you get to sit with a serial killer.

What was the hardest part for you to hear?

Well, I put a wall up.

What do you mean you put a wall up?

She called him Mr. Heuermann.

So his response was,

"Oh, are we formal now,

Mrs. Ellerup?"

Did you feel you were sitting

across the table from a stranger?

No.

When he started talking,

it started feeling like that's the Rex I know.

But I didn't wanna see that one,

I wanted to see the one I needed to see.

He looked very nervous.

Very, very nervous.

And I said to him,

"So, Mr. Heuermann,

I understand that you are

confessing to me on these murders.

Can you please tell me

how many of these women did you kill?"

He said, "Eight."

No, he just told me the answer.

He said he killed eight women.

Eight.

Who was the eighth?

'Cause he's charged with seven.

I didn't ask.

He sat and told you he killed eight.

He said I wasn't home during all of them.

Were any of them killed in the house?

He said yes,

they were killed in his room downstairs.

All except one.

He said that he killed Sandra Costilla in the Dodge.

That was his first murder...

before I married him.

I said, uh,

"They said that you dismembered some bodies,

did you dismember them?"

And he said, "Yes, I did it."

There are certain things,

certain questions that I believed.

Others, I'm not 100% sure.

He said he never really intentionally

tried to kill these women.

He says he just killed them.

- No. - But he doesn't,

he doesn't know how he killed them.

That's what you heard?

No. Is-is-is...

I didn't hear that.

What did you hear?

He said, "The first one,

I had no idea I was gonna kill at that time.

I just randomly did it."

But the others, he planned to kill them.

I mean, some women,

he had sex with and he didn't kill them.

And he said that,

"Some women I had sex with and I did not kill."

Knowing the Rex you know

since you were 18 years old,

do you feel he expressed any remorse?

No.

No.

Okay.

How did you feel about his tears?

I think the tears were for me.

Not for the victims.

No.

Do you believe

Rex got into a relationship with you,

married you,

because he was able to control and manipulate you?

No.

No.

What did he say about his first wife?

Remember?

He said she was crazy

and he couldn't...

Go ahead.

Right, and he couldn't control her.

He couldn't control her.

So think about that.

Just sit with that for a minute, right?

"My first wife, she was crazy.

I couldn't put up with her,

I couldn't control her."

What did you say? Do you remember?

I said...

"Why did you choose me?"

Yeah.

He said he loved me.

Do you believe he loved you?

Yes, I do.

Do you think that he has any remorse

for destroying

your family's life?

Yes, I saw the tears.

He lived a double life.

I saw the man that worked hard,

took care of his family.

But...

anyone who takes a life,

I don't think that they deserve to die,

I think that they deserve to be forced

to face the reality of what they've done.

All of these girls that were found on Gilgo Beach,

they were somebody's daughter.

They were somebody's sister.

They were girls.

Yes.

Yes, I believe he's the Gilgo Beach Killer.

The peace and beauty of Fire Island was shattered today

by the grizzly discovery of two human legs

minus a body.

Police have no clues as to who the legs discovered

at Davis Park belonged to.

Investigators say the legs

with red painted toenails are definitely female,

but that's all they know so far.

Today, authorities identified one of the victims

in the Gilgo Beach murders.

Her remains found nearly three decades ago

off of Fire Island.

We were able to identify Fire Island Jane Doe

as Karen Vergata,

who was 34 years old

at the time of her disappearance.

Vergata disappeared in February, 1996.

She was 34, living in New York City,

and authorities said like other Gilgo Beach victims,

a sex worker.

Her legs were found in Davis Park.

Her skull is found at Gilgo,

where Rex Heuermann's other alleged victims

were disposed of like trash.

Karen Vergata's stepsister has said,

"I'm glad she's found.

It's nice to have closure.

We always wondered what happened."

She also explained Vergata's father once hired

a private investigator to try and find her,

but died never knowing the fate of his daughter.

Still unknown how

or why Vergata was killed, and more importantly,

whether accused serial killer, Rex Heuermann,

was involved in her death.

It's important to note that there are no charges

at this time.

We are gonna continue to work this particular case

as we did the Gilgo Four investigation.

Sure.

Am I allowed to talk about this?

I don't know if he'll ever be indicted for the eighth.

I don't, it's not public, the eighth,

'cause they don't have evidence.

Okay.

I would say that the killing of Karen Vergata

before he was getting married was a pivot point

to make him more comfortable in future killings.

I don't think he cared

that he was about to go get married

to his pregnant wife.

He divides the worlds.

He said they're two separate entities.

He doesn't regulate emotions like you and I.

So when he was doing what he was doing,

was he thinking of his family?

No.

Was that a stressor?

Subconsciously, absolutely.

Did he recognize it at the time? No.

In his mind, it was time

that Asa will be away planning their wedding.

So he was free to do what he wanted

and fulfill his own fantasy.

I think that was pivotal to making it easier and easier

to move forward.

And it became more of a game inside his mind.

Prepping, timing,

playtime, cleanup.

It all became a methodical

second life,

so to speak.

No, no.

That's not the way I understand it.

No, no, it...

No, no.

He said, I asked him, I asked him.

Hold on.

Hello.

I'm doing much better.

So the...

So, what...

Yes, yes, we're on speaker.

So I have one question for you.

I'd like to know when was the first planned event.

I had gone in hand with a wedding dress to Sweden.

You were meeting me on the last week of the vacation.

I took a three-week vacation that year.

She flew down how long before you?

Two.

And what year was that?

Right.

Rex?

Just so you understand,

what we're trying to do is help Asa process

through the two separate lives.

Sometimes there are stressors in your life

that trigger things

to do things.

So we're doing a little live therapy session here.

Was that stressful knowing

that you're having a baby coming?

Can you share with her to help her understand

just emotionally maybe like

what you were feeling,

what you were going through when you were home...

Alone.

Before you flew out to marry her?

You have one minute left.

So anyway, um,

I didn't wanna scare you off

'cause I get a a little confused sometimes.

I know.

I know that.

In her heart, do I think she'll ever let him go?

No, because she didn't know him that way.

She never saw that side of him.

She only saw the man who she believed was saving her

from a life of trauma.

When Asa was born,

we have to realize nobody wanted her.

They adopted her into an American family.

She never felt wanted or loved.

She always felt less than.

She always felt different.

Asa comes from years of abuse,

years of neglect.

She went from one trauma to the next to the next.

When I think back to my childhood,

my father was always working.

He would end up traveling, you know,

for like two, three months at a time.

A lot of my friends had older brothers,

and the older brothers were always keeping an eye

on their little sisters.

But no one was watching out for me.

I'm 16 years old.

I was out one day.

There was a bunch of boys on a street corner hanging out,

and one of them pulled me behind my house

and molested me.

I couldn't get away.

I quit school not too long after that.

I also tried to commit suicide.

Not something I'm proud of.

So if there's anybody that knows anything

about what bad men are capable of doing,

that would be me.

When I first met Asa, she was broken...

It's crying from guilt.

Guilt that

I wasn't a good enough wife.

In total shock...

What would anyone do if they're in my shoes?

Denial.

And I go to bed at night

and I wake up the next morning saying to myself,

"Girl, it didn't happen.

Your husband, Rex Heuermann, did not do this."

I've noticed her cognitive dissonance.

Asa was placing reality onto what she needed to believe.

He's a family man, period.

I'm convinced that the person they're looking for

is not a family man.

Rex was the kind of person that you could call,

even if you just wanted to talk,

and that's it.

He was the one person I could count on

when I needed something

and he was there.

Charming Rex comes in.

He says, "Move into my home."

She went with what was safe because she needed to survive.

She never challenged him.

He would say something and she would just take it in

and believe it.

And when I would ask her why,

"Because he's my husband,"

and that's an honest answer of hers.

I do believe there's a part of Asa

that will never accept that he murdered these women.

She would rather create something that works for her

in her mind than something that's more real,

and that's a process in itself.

Believing that she can have any healthy relationship

with Rex in the future is delusional thinking.

We need to work on that.

She clearly grieves differently than Victoria.

So now Victoria has to hear the truth.

She wants closure.

Whatever that looks like,

she's ready for this to be done.

Ever since my dad was arrested,

it has become a combination of humiliation,

confusion, sadness,

and uncertainty,

all in a whole bowl of like fruit salad or something.

Just all those things.

Nobody really thinks about the daughter

of the serial killer.

There is actually artwork produced by Victoria.

People are just making up stories about it.

This horrifying monster with blood eating

on the breasts of this woman.

They were writing my story

right in front of us on the news.

Your hair, your DNA, whatever it is, is on the bodies.

Why aren't you involved?

All I knew was

everything I knew was gone.

We're not gonna turn this into some kind of sideshow.

Victoria has told me that she

and her father have a very strong relationship.

Her protective fantasies about the father

that she knows

are very real to her.

My initial observations of Victoria,

she was in total shock.

Completely blindsided

and hurt.

I feel like I definitely do jump

between depression and anger a lot.

My self-esteem and self-worth is just tanked.

Like, why am I even here anymore?

She's definitely traumatized by it.

It took me months to feel anything about this case.

Like this stuff does not, you know, hit just a like that.

It takes a while to actually set it.

So you know, like right now I just don't know how I feel.

Her brain processes it on her terms

and she needed to do it her way.

About 26 months after the arrest,

I got a call from Alison saying that he wanted to meet me.

He wanted to sit face to face and you know,

admit his crimes...

and give us time before he confessed

to the world.

Walking into that room, um...

I saw my dad, the man,

not necessarily the monster.

They set up his handcuffs to the chair and everything.

Something that was really important to me

and really just how I'm gonna get past this was,

were any of them, how many were there?

He said, "Eight."

He did tell me the first murder wasn't planned.

In 1993, he killed Sandra Castillo

in his car at the time.

I remember as a kid he had

a, um,

a Dodge Ramcharger.

I did as a kid.

We did ride in the Ramcharger.

So besides Sandra Costilla,

he did say that they were all in,

the rest were in the house.

You know, in the kill room.

And he said, Karen, Valerie and Jessica

were...

murdered and mutilated, and dismembered in that room.

And my dad has confirmed

that one of them was killed in their bed.

I also asked him about his planning document

that was created in 2000

before Valerie Mack's murder.

My dad told me

he first created that document

as a way to try to distract himself

from having to actually do the act itself.

If he, you know, puts it on paper

and acts it out in his head,

that that would curb the zone,

you know, curb the urge.

He said he took two pictures,

only two out of all eight murders.

He only took two pictures.

But nobody's seen these pictures.

He destroyed them promptly afterwards.

They were long destroyed.

He said that his demons got to him.

When he was in a certain opportunity

or there was a certain catalyst in front of him

that would start to create these dark urges.

It was a sickness.

I asked him like, "Well, did you see them

as somebody's daughter?"

He told me, "Didn't even see them as human."

Yes.

He said he doesn't think about the family.

He never thought about me when he was doing it.

They were completely kept separate,

he never let the two cross.

So I'm like, "Okay. He's a loving dad

and the serial killer.

How do you manage that the two never crossed?"

Seven women have been murdered in this house.

It's hard to stomach.

I had like a whole almost two years

to just mentally prepared me for this.

The uncertainty of not knowing was a lot harder

than eventually finding out.

With everything that has happened,

how am I supposed to just go back to normal? You know?

So, I do accept his guilt

and the crimes that he has,

the crimes that he has done.

What are you doing?

I am...

lighting some sage down here.

What does the sage do?

Just to cleanse the area

after, after hearing that some of the victims

were killed down here.

Especially in, in this room,

Um.

- I kind of... - In here?

- Yeah. - Yeah.

I just wanna clear out the

energy of it all and send, you know,

and hopefully any linger, you know,

any of their spirits are pure

that they can, you know, finally rest.

She was just very kindhearted, you know?

She made mistakes. Who doesn't?

She didn't deserve this.

Nobody deserves this.

She's just a beautiful, beautiful,

loving human being.

And I miss her terribly.

It kind of makes sense now

after hearing that some of them were killed here.

There were just some moments where just

the energy kind, there was just really...

- You were feeling it? - Yeah.

It brings me happiness to know

that he will not be having access to any other girls.

It brings me peace to know that my sister

is laying where she should be with my family.

And that if my parents here and my sister was here,

she would say, "Thank you."

The lingering anger, the lingering emotions,

everything and just kind of just here.

I remember as a kid I would watch TV,

play video games in that area

and that is about maybe 10 feet

from where those women were mutilated or murdered.

That image was in my head of just, you know,

"Hey, I was watching TV right where he did,

you know, he did all these things."

It's him.

You wanna get Asa?

Individual at Suffolk County

Correctional Facility.

This call is subject to recording and monitoring.

Hey there.

I'm good, I'm good.

I'm standing here with your daughter.

She's hanging in there.

We were just talking about what it was like for her

and for you

after the meeting.

Sure.

Is Asa coming down?

Are you allowed to call back?

Because I know you're gonna run out of time.

Thank you.

Hold on.

Camera speeds.

- Ready guys? - Yep.

Rex Heuermann.

An incarcerated individual at...

This call is subject to recording and monitoring.

- Hey there. - Hi.

- Hello. - Hello.

We even have Christopher next to us.

I'm doing all right.

So, we're all sitting here together in the den.

I'm doing okay.

Did he provide clarity?

You need to hear it from him?

Yes and no.

I mean, the clarity comes from much more

than just him saying something, you know.

But him saying it now, it helps my mind

because now that I know,

then it's easier for me to move forward.

You wanna say something? Go ahead.

Hold on. Christopher's next to me.

He wants to talk.

I don't know what else to say, but...

What?

Right.

Great idea.

Right.

Why was it important for you, Rex,

to sit down with them

and answer their questions?

Is that what you guys felt?

Do you feel that?

That he was receptive to your questions?

- Yeah. - Yes.

Good.

Were you surprised by any of the questions that they asked?

I figured it'd take my opportunity to ask,

you know, when I had it.

He said, I wasn't born yet when Sandra Castillo

and Karen Vergata were murdered.

I was three when Valerie Mack was murdered.

I was six when Jessica Taylor was murdered.

I was 10 when Maureen Brainard-Barnes was murdered.

I was 12 when Melissa Barthelemy was murdered

and I was 13 when Megan Waterman

and Amber Costello were murdered.

Rex told me that toward the last two killings,

he knew he wasn't getting the same gratification.

He wasn't receiving the adrenaline rush.

And by his last kill,

he knew he was gonna stop.

And I looked at him and I said,

"Well, I beg to differ a little bit,

look at the timing."

Shannon Gilbert had gone missing,

and that family, they kept that case alive

until someone paid attention.

And because of that, his killings were found.

So it became so sensational and it became so newsworthy

that subconsciously or consciously,

that's when he decided to stop killing.

I think he was very concerned about getting caught

and I think he knew he was gonna get caught.

And it's been 14 years.

I don't know.

But,

one was too many.

One was too many.

Yeah.

So, I walk into the jail.

I go through security.

Rex is already sitting there.

And he was absolutely

analyzing me in his mind.

He looked at me

and he said to me,

like he was special,

"Have you ever sat with a serial killer before?"

I know his body language,

and I know where it's coming from.

And it's coming from the narcissism.

So, I looked right at him, and I paused.

And I said,

"I have not,

but you're all the same."

I said, "You're not that special."

And he looked at me, and he just froze.

And then, eventually, you build a rapport,

you build trust,

you build a connection.

And finally, it happened.

He looked at me

right in the face,

right in the eyes,

and he turned his whole body toward me.

And he goes, "Do you have any idea

what it's like to wanna kill someone?"

"To hurt, to kill,

to play God and end somebody's life?

You don't know what that's like."

After that, Rex is sharing everything with me.

Details about the crimes,

his mind, how he thinks.

So, the deeper that gets, the darker that gets.

Why, he does not know.

I've asked.

I've asked the why.

They really don't have answers in those moments.

They don't.

He doesn't know why.

The only thing that he's able to really come up with

is that he gets to know them as people.

If he gets to know someone, he gets vulnerable.

He's not in total control.

So, if he felt he was losing a sense of control,

what would he do?

He would pursue with a kill,

which was planned,

'cause he set up his house for it prior.

So, he met them once.

He got to know them, had a transaction,

set up a second time,

and had his four-day plan.

Day one was the prep,

which, he cleaned the entire basement

and he would prepare

for his time with them in the house.

The second day, he's with the victim,

which he says was always very enjoyable

and he was very kind,

until they were gonna be murdered.

And then, a lot of it was the postmortem,

his playtime.

And that night was the dump.

The third day was his cleanup day.

He had to take every single thing he used,

tools,

tarps,

clothes, everything.

And he would dispose of it so there was,

in his mind, no evidence.

He would say, "Well, day four is in case of emergencies.

I just need the extra day.

It's a four-day high."

It's a four-day adrenaline rush.

And then, he'd fly out to his family.

Exactly.

He told me that he would take a stopwatch

before he would dump a body at Gilgo Beach.

And he went from his first kill,

two minutes and 32 seconds,

to his last kill at Gilgo.

He would hit the timer,

dump the body, get back in the truck,

and hit the timer again.

Thirty-seven seconds.

He's so meticulous, detail-oriented,

pathological, control, domination.

He had to beat himself at his own game.

Clearly, he enjoyed killing,

and it became a sickness for him.

It became an outlet.

It became an obsession.

"Session 12.

Today, Rex opened up about his childhood,

his impressionable years.

Rex doesn't remember much of his childhood,

but some of those memories are starting to return

as we talk about it more and more."

He was not approachable.

Very domineering, very controlling,

loud.

He was always being yelled at, screamed at.

He did nothing right.

He was a man of integrity.

He spent time with his children.

Whenever dad was home,

they would be in the garage,

hanging out with dad.

He fought in World War II.

He was a co-pilot.

One of Rex's favorite TV shows is "Hogan's Heroes".

Hogan!

It reminded him of his father.

Don't look at me, I only work here.

Airplanes, pilots.

Rex had always wanted to join the Air Force,

but he couldn't because he was dyslexic.

So, he was disappointed.

He died when Rex was 12.

He had been ill,

but it was a sudden death, though, for everybody.

His dad was very critical of him,

and I do believe it manifested

into why he's very methodical,

OCD,

obsessive on certain things,

because he was criticized so much.

Dolores was not hard on Rex at all, okay?

She had five children.

Every single one of them had a uniqueness to them,

and she,

she was proud of them.

Not available.

His mother wasn't emotionally available for him.

She was self-absorbed and detached

from any emotions that he had

or any grief in regards to his own dad.

He says he pretty much raised himself.

Dad passes away,

Mom's trying to run a house with five children.

It was chaos in the house.

So, Rex didn't have much of a voice.

He wasn't really heard as a child.

And I go, "What did you do?"

He held it all in.

He goes, "I keep it here."

So, Rex in later high school shares with me

he starts having thoughts that he knew weren't healthy.

He did not know what they were, per se.

He did not know

how violent they were.

But he knew his thinking wasn't right.

Rex knew there was a piece of him missing.

He didn't know what that piece was.

He couldn't put it into words.

So, he started pornography,

books on death.

He became very fascinated with dissecting a human body

and the sex, and the pornography,

and the human body, and all of that

in a mind that's not healthy is a very dangerous recipe.

There was one session in particular,

he told me about a book.

It's called "Death Scenes."

It was hard to look at.

It's bodies mutilated,

heads cut off, arms cut off,

hundreds and hundreds of wounds everywhere,

pure mutilation.

That's what was fascinating him

and that's what was feeding his mind.

There was no healthy sexual experiences in his life.

Maybe he witnessed an unhealthy event

that he wasn't able to process right.

Sex and violence went hand in hand for him

somewhere, subconsciously.

It goes one layer, one layer, one layer,

one thought feeds another thought,

feeds another thought, feeds another thought,

deeper and deeper and deeper

to more and more evil.

He couldn't put the brakes on it.

He had no control of stopping it.

It overrides him.

He kept it all inside,

fed his own addiction,

his own demons.

And it led him to a place

he hurt other people.

Brutally.

Violently.

His outlet was...

to kill.

"Dear Mr. Douglas,

I hope this message finds you well."

Sure.

"I'm currently working with Rex Heuermann,

often referred to as the Gilgo Beach Serial Killer.

Mr. Heuermann has studied your books.

In fact, he and I discussed "Mindhunter" often.

We're trying to get to the root cause of his fantasies

which created his urges to kill.

He can't explain why he did this.

Is he a true psychopath?

I don't know.

I know there's a chemical component,

a genetic component,

family component.

There's a little bit of everything overlapping at once.

I would love to talk to you more

and get your expert opinion on this topic."

Alison, how are you?

Hi John, how are you?

Welcome, welcome, come on in.

Thank you, thank you for having me.

Yeah, it's great for coming here, thank you.

I have your book.

I do, I have your book.

I was wondering who bought my book.

That was me.

What you were able to do was amazing,

getting to interview the...

not only the subject in the case but the family.

I've never done that before.

Usually, I'll interview the subject,

maybe sometimes he's already incarcerated,

and the victims, I deal with victims of violent crime.

But this, you're really, it's great.

That's why I was so excited to come speak with you

because it is a different perspective.

I'm grounded in family systems,

so my goal is to take trauma of families,

whatever the trauma is, and to help them navigate

to hopefully a healthier place so they can move on.

This specific family, Asa is so loyal,

so dependent on Rex,

where I realized very early on

that I needed him to help me help her

because the denial was thick.

But Asa always says to me,

"How on earth can he call me

to make sure I got to Vermont safely?

Call me three to four times a day,

show up at work,

live his daily life.

How does he jump from one mind to the other mind?"

They do not identify with these victims

like you and I would do.

In fact, I used to have major arguments

with law enforcement.

"Don't polygraph, do not polygraph these guys."

These crimes are justifiable in their mind.

So you're not gonna get any reaction out of them.

Interesting.

I was involved in the BTK investigation

first in 1979 and then in 1984,

I did the analysis.

Very similar with Rex here.

Had children, each lived in the same small house.

Each house was originally their parents' home,

which is very, very unique.

BTK, he surfaced somewhere in his late 20s too.

Very similar types of backgrounds, the fantasies.

But if I would have Dennis Rader here and Rex here,

I believe that Rader would be jealous of Rex.

Why is that?

The ultimate with these subjects

is to keep the victim for a period of time.

In the fantasy, they have them locked up,

they have them in a room

and that was a strong fantasy with Dennis Rader.

But he didn't have that room, he didn't have that location.

So here we have Rex,

he has the place to do whatever he wants to do

to carry out his sadistic fantasies.

I don't know if he told you any of this about fantasy,

how he did get heavy into fantasy

'cause that's how it all begins.

With fantasy, everything works.

Everything is perfect in the fantasy

and they have a, we call preferential victim.

A preferential victim may be a certain size, petite, color.

So I'm on the hunt and these predators do hunt.

They hunt looking for victims

that they're sure they can get away with.

You look into a crowd differently

than he would look into a crowd.

He is the lion on a Serengeti plain.

He's not gonna go after the water buffalo

that's strong and healthy.

The lion is looking at weakness.

So these guys like Rex are the lion on the Serengeti plain.

In speaking with Rex, he always said to me

and he still says consistently,

"It's not about the women,

it's not the women."

Which leads me to believe, and we talk about,

it's clearly he's detached

from the person that he's mutilating

but he gets a lot of self-gratification postmortem.

He could say what he wants

but it's still sadistic.

It's the violence that really turns him on.

He does it downstairs in the kill room,

which was his old bedroom

where he keeps a lot of his childhood memories.

It's a comfort zone for him,

just like the disposal sites are a comfort zone.

There has to be some attachment there.

He put these victims through hell

and it wasn't a swift kill.

It didn't have to be a swift kill because no one was home.

No one could hear the screams

and yells coming from his cellar.

Is he a psychopath, is my question?

Oh yeah, definitely a psychopath.

When he's doing these killings,

he has to be...

what's going through his mind has to be something related

to early on his life. - To a trauma.

Trauma in his life.

I wouldn't be surprised

if there's a sexual component of this.

Something happened to him very, very early in his life.

There's something there.

So you feel that he knows the answers to a lot of the why.

- Yeah. - He's just not

ready to verbalize it.

- Yeah, they know. - They know the answers.

Something went on there with him sexually,

something had to do that.

So the notion that Rex

created a kill room in his childhood room,

is there an overlap there subconsciously or consciously?

I think with the kill room,

it started as a teenager.

I could see him as a teenager

beginning a lot of these fantasies in his teen years.

It may have been fueled by pornography.

That kind of stuff starts very, very young.

It doesn't always have to start in the mid-20s.

And he says it started young.

In your fantasy, you're writing a script.

The script is being written through your fantasy.

This stuff has to fester, fester at an early age.

In those teens when he was down

in his room down there going through puberty,

his fantasies, I'm sure were different

kind of fantasies than a normal kind of teenager.

And he'll admit to that.

That would fit and it would be violent.

A violent kind of tendency.

Are they ever free of that urge?

No, they never get free.

The urges never go away?

I need to keep reminding, it's not a sexual thing.

It's anger, power, control. - Oh, I believe that.

- Domination. - I could see that with Rex.

Yeah.

With insecurity, some of the most gregarious

serial killers you'd ever want to meet,

say like a Ted Bundy, have strong feelings of inadequacies.

How can this inadequate nobody

become somebody to regain his power and and control?

I can go out and kill.

And he didn't start killing

according to him until he was 30.

He's admitted to eight.

Do we believe that, am I naive to believe that?

I don't believe he started killing at 30.

There may be cases that he does not want to admit to

because in those states, like where he has a house

I believe in South Carolina- - It's death penalty.

And I've worked many cases down there,

they got the death penalty and they use it.

In South Carolina where Rex Heuermann

has property and his brother has property,

investigators were curious about a missing teenager,

Aaliyah Bell and also a woman,

Julia Ann Bean, who was 36.

Eighteen-year-old Aaliyah Bell

went missing back in 2014.

Bell disappeared around 20 miles

from property owned by Heuermann.

In Julia Ann Bean's case,

her daughter saw a picture of Rex Heuermann

and said, "That's the guy that I last saw with my mother."

She recognized him right away.

She said that was the last person she ever saw

with her mom.

I think he has a lot of hidden secrets here.

He's a malignant, narcissistic,

sadistic, psychopathic serial killer.

Had he not been apprehended,

I think he would've killed more.

I do.

I do, I do forgive him.

I can't move forward unless I do.

I don't think it's in my place to forgive him.

I'm not the one who's judging him...

God is.

So he would need to get that from...

God.

Clearly, like the mind of a serial killer is beyond,

it's like we don't know how it came to be.

It's one in a million that like just wound up being one.

So smart that he completely

kept it from us and that's what they do.

Serial killers don't let

their loved ones see their other side.

But he really was just those two people

and they never crossed.

Like, you know, the two worlds never crossed.

When I sat with him alone, we spoke of that.

He has time to go through

all the discovery of his case in his cell.

So he sees photos of all of the eight women

and he spends time on these eight women,

talking with them

and I said to him, "What do you say?"

And he said, "A whole bunch of different things."

That was his answer, "All different things."

And then he says, "I look at the dump sites

and I look at what was done and I try to connect the two."

And he can't do it.

His words, he goes, "I can't do it, I try.

It's two different worlds."

He's trying to connect emotion

to what he's done and he can't.

He has emotion with you guys.

He doesn't have emotion on the other side of it.

Tomorrow's a big day.

Let's get some sleep.

- All right. - All right.

- Thank you. - 7:15.

Okay?

Bright and early.

Accused Gilgo Beach serial killer

Rex Heuermann returns to Suffolk Court

for another conference.

Heuermann's attorney, Michael Brown,

says he wants to break up the trial

to avoid wrongly convicting him on all seven slains.

Each charge must fall or rise on its own.

Prosecutors will file their motion

for one and only one trial.

So, Victoria?

- Yeah? - Is this the first time

you're seeing dad since

he told you he was guilty?

Yeah.

The impact was already felt

when Alison told me my dad wanted to confess to me,

and then the meeting with him was another stage of impact.

The next chapter is people's reactions.

Is the world gonna be considered as society,

people are gonna be considerate enough to know,

yes, I'm at the daughter of a serial killer,

but that does not mean that I'm him.

Even to the point you're gonna see some

of the victim's families today.

Asa, same thing, like knowing what you now know,

seeing the victim's families, any different feelings?

I really don't know.

I have no idea how...

You'll feel.

Well, Victoria's here today and we know that Peacock said

that you made a statement that you thought

that your father might be guilty

of the serial killings--

She's not gonna respond to anything.

Based on the publicly available evidence?

She's not gonna respond to anything today.

Well, today's sort of D-Day.

I mean, the judge will decide possibly the date,

show the date of the trial,

and also-- - I anticipate a trial date

being set. - whether there will be

seven murders tried or--

The judge will decide, we believe,

whether or not all seven murders will be tried in one case

or if there will be separate trials.

I think given all of the success of the prosecution

in terms of these pretrial attempts the defense is making,

they have fewer and fewer options,

and this evidence is overwhelming.

If I were the defense attorney,

I'd be encouraging my client to take a plea, personally.

Okay.

Good morning, everybody. Thanks for coming.

We are obviously here with Asa and Victoria

to listen to today's proceedings.

The court, primarily in the interest of judicial economy

and given the fact that the evidence

of the charges are inextricably interwoven,

is not going to sever.

So all seven of the victims are gonna be tried together

in one trial.

Another nail in the coffin of the defense.

There's a lot of talk out there

that Rex Heuermann might consider pleading guilty

to spare his family the trauma of a trial.

I think that's a decision that will be made

by Mr. Heuermann and his defense team

and Mr. Tierney's office.

- Thank you. - Okay, thank you.

Asa, you okay?

Yes, I'm okay.

Hold on. This is him again.

An incarcerated individual

at Suffolk County Correctional Facility.

This call is subject to recording and monitoring.

Hello.

Yeah, but you will in the future.

Okay.

I am patie--

I am patient.

I can wait.

I always knew you didn't have as much patience as I do,

but perhaps maybe you will be forced to be patient.

My feelings are shifting.

One thing is ending,

and now there's a new chapter.

In my hopes with Alison coming to visit you,

I'm really honestly hoping that you will know

that I am okay.

I have my moments.

Do you look at him different now?

I am looking at him

no differently than I ever saw him.

That hasn't changed in my view

at all.

But there's a whole side of him you never knew.

No, but that's a new side to get to know.

How do you think you're gonna get to know that side?

Well, the only way to get to know

that person is to go and visit him.

Do you have any interest to get to know that person?

Um...

from a psychological standpoint, yes.

You didn't?

Oh, okay, well, I--

I would like to say good night.

It is the understanding of the District Attorney's Office

that the defendant will plead guilty

to seven counts in the indictment.

The defendant further agrees

that, although he has not been charged with this crime,

he will admit, as part of his plea,

that he intentionally caused

the death of Karen Vergata in 1996.

To summarize the foregoing sentence,

the defendant agrees

to serve three consecutive life sentences

without the possibility of parole

regarding counts one through three,

followed by four consecutive sentences

of 25 years' imprisonment to life

to run consecutive to one another.

Yes, your Honor.

Yes.

We have some breaking news for you.

A decades-long mystery has finally come to an end today.

Rex Heuermann has pleaded guilty.

How did you not see what he was?

How did you not see what he had done?

You were living with him.

Sir, sir, sir,

the District Attorney's Office has thoroughly,

thoroughly investigated these crimes, okay?

It has been proven--

You were living in the same house with him.

We've answered this a thousand times, okay?

Asa? Asa?

Yeah, that's it. There's no questions.

Thank you.

This defendant walked among us,

playacting as a normal suburban dad,

when in reality, all along,

he was obsessively targeting innocent women for death.

And while we in law enforcement,

as well as our Suffolk County citizens,

mourn the loss of these victims,

we are also grateful to them and to their families,

because, without them,

this defendant would have never been brought to justice

and would still be walking amongst us.

To Maureen, the promise I made to you so long ago

was simple.

Sorry.

I would never stop searching for justice for you

through every year, every setback,

every...

every unanswered question.

I carried you with me,

and I kept that promise,

and today it has been done.

Justice has finally found its way to you.

Your voice was never silenced,

your story never forgotten,

and your life will always mean

more than the tragedy that took you.

This moment is not the end

but a reminder that love endures,

truth prevails,

and hope never fades

because even in the darkest moments,

justice will find its way.

Thank you.

This whole basement looks very different.

It's been completely gutted and redone.

New floor, new walls,

new moldings, new doors.

The brutal truth is that Rex Heuermann said

he dismembered the bodies in this room.

That is the brutal truth, okay?

Now there's me.

I'm in this room,

and I'm here because I do feel spiritual.

I am trying to say spiritually, in my own way,

that I am really sorry

for what these victims went through.

Every night that I go to bed and go to sleep,

I am haunted by dreams.

Every night.

It will never go away.

It will follow me for the rest of my life.

There will never be any justice for anyone,

and there will never be any way to forget about this.

I have seen Rex

about 12 times

since he confessed to me

that he actually had dismembered these bodies down here.

I want to get to know this other side of Rex.

I want to know why Rex killed these women,

what his triggers were.

I'm processing the information in a very different way

because now I see the evil in him.

Why did you pick her?

Did she say, "Please, please," like, "I have kids?"

She was just very kind hearted.

She didn't deserve this. Nobody deserves this.

They were all beautiful women.

They were daughters, sisters, cousins, nieces, mothers.

Amber was just a

beautiful, beautiful, loving human being,

and I miss her terribly.

Jess was somebody that I looked up to.

She was a force,

one of the strongest women that I know,

with a heart of gold.

She was and still is loved immeasurably.