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1
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The original Steely Dan Band was formed
in 1971.
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There were five of us, and Donald and I
wrote the songs.
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We toured for a while to support the
first couple of albums, but we didn't
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00:01:02,470 --> 00:01:06,910
really like it, so we stopped in 1974
and didn't tour again for 19 years.
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00:01:09,470 --> 00:01:16,330
By the time we released Asia, the other
members of the band were gone except for
6
00:01:16,330 --> 00:01:20,930
Denny Dias, and we'd replaced them with
session musicians and some of our
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favorite soloists.
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We started recording the Isha album in
1977 in California, and it took a little
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over a year to finish.
10
00:01:52,430 --> 00:01:57,090
Around the time we made Asia, we'd
figured out what it was we sort of
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do, you know, musically.
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We realized we needed session musicians
who had a larger palette of things they
13
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could do, who were also good readers
because they were coming in cold.
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00:02:13,490 --> 00:02:19,390
I think the Asia album has so much great
playing in terms of what we were trying
15
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to do with combining, you know,
16
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session players and soloists and so on
to produce these little ideal tracks for
17
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our songs. It was sort of the best, the
most consistent and most successful
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example of that.
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The songs started to become more
sophisticated and individual to
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so there'd be a particular piece that we
felt X musician would really shine on.
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And we wanted the opportunity to be able
to utilize the musicians who were
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available.
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00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:11,660
I kind of like
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Josie because Josie sounds like a good
rhythm and blues record.
25
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You know, it has all the stuff I like
about, you know, a good...
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like a Junior Parker record or a Bobby
Bland record or something.
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It has a lot of that stuff in it, plus
some other stuff.
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tunes from this album. That's the one I
like playing nowadays.
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Sort of a minor blues based thing that
has a lot of typical writing devices
30
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and the way it's played I think is a
sort of prototypical Stevie Dan record
31
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it's just fun to play.
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Josie is one of those songs that's right
in the middle of everything. A perfect
33
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fusion record. Good dance record.
34
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It seems to be pretty funky or it seems
to be pretty basic but Great players who
35
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are revoicing certain chords. The
bassline is a
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lot of me and a lot of Walter.
37
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Great bassline.
38
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Chuck Rainey.
39
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I remember you and him working that out.
40
00:04:42,590 --> 00:04:45,390
Yeah. You had a basic thing and then you
were a mess.
41
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Well, it's another thing where the first
date was a server written part that I
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gave him and then Now this is That's
just a regular kind of little
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old funk groove that more or less would
sound like We're basing guitars.
44
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It's a straight ahead
45
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Okay, that's very, very normal. But like
his ideas were for the bass line were
46
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things like the place, something like...
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Which
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was more or less his idea to try and do
something like that. And if I recall, he
49
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did hum those parts to me like... Not
this way.
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Guitar doubling the bass, common
arranging tool of the Hollywood
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generation.
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Henry Mancini would have been proud.
53
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Early detective, everything happening.
54
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Okay, that's that.
55
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I remember on the Asia album, we would
have six -hour sessions.
56
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two, three -hour sessions with a lunch
break in between.
57
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And we'd rehearse for the morning
sessions.
58
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And I would have the distinct feeling
that we would never get a take with this
59
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band. It would never happen.
60
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The song would probably not end up on
the album, and it was going to all be
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failed. We'd go to lunch, come back, and
everything was in place. And we got a
62
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bunch of really good takes after lunch.
63
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The amount of information that we
processed to put the track together and,
64
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know, and the various permutations, I
have to say most of the scrutiny was on
65
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the drummer.
66
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What they really wanted was to get a
great drum track.
67
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And we got some drums here.
68
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This was Jim Keltner on this one.
69
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Here, check this thing here.
70
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Harp string ensemble, a sort of
primitive string simulator.
71
00:08:01,660 --> 00:08:03,700
Sounds just as bad now as it did then.
72
00:08:04,220 --> 00:08:06,560
But, of course, we listen to it
ironically. How about this?
73
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Overdub.
74
00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,660
Garbage can lid. Garbage can lid. Jim
Keltner.
75
00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:30,620
Rage has got a sound that lifts your
heart up, and it's the most consistently
76
00:08:30,620 --> 00:08:36,440
upful, heartwarming, even though it is a
classic L .A. kind of sound,
77
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you wouldn't think it was recorded
anywhere else in the world, I don't
78
00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:47,180
It's got California through its blood,
even though they're boys from New York.
79
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And it's a record that sends my spirits
up. And really, when I listen to music,
80
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That's really what I want. I don't
really want to hear people moaning, and
81
00:08:57,370 --> 00:08:59,030
don't want to hear music that moans, you
know?
82
00:09:05,710 --> 00:09:12,510
We moved out to the West Coast in 71 or
83
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72, and we got a job there and staff
writing for ABC
84
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Dunhill Records.
85
00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:26,940
We were sort of these two English major
type guys, you know, out in L .A. that
86
00:09:26,940 --> 00:09:32,880
was a much more visual culture in a way.
You know, I think the sort of cliched
87
00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:39,760
illustration of that is, you know, Woody
Allen movies where he's transported
88
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out to Los Angeles and becomes very ill,
you know, and feels very disoriented. I
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00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,480
think that probably is close to our
experience as well.
90
00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:57,200
We ended up working with bands that had
New York and L .A. musicians because
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there were elements we were finding in
the L .A. session players that were
92
00:10:01,700 --> 00:10:06,400
great, you know, the kind of precision
and the savviness about recording
93
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processes and so on.
94
00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,200
Back when we started in New York, the
drummer would show up with his trap
95
00:10:15,380 --> 00:10:20,220
right, with a snare drum and his cymbals
and his pedals or whatever and some
96
00:10:20,220 --> 00:10:21,220
sticks.
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00:10:22,250 --> 00:10:26,930
In Los Angeles, when we got there, a
drummer would show up, a truck would
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up, and two guys would come out and set
up a huge drum set.
99
00:10:30,310 --> 00:10:35,190
And the guy had two more sets like that
so that he could make the next date. It
100
00:10:35,190 --> 00:10:39,470
was all set up when he got there. So we
loved that about the L .A. players. At
101
00:10:39,470 --> 00:10:43,210
the same time, a lot of the New York
musicians had a musical style or a sort
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hard -hitting attitude, or they took
chances during their performances in a
103
00:10:47,850 --> 00:10:50,010
that didn't happen on the West Coast.
104
00:10:52,940 --> 00:10:56,700
Jazz rock was a fundamental part of the
70s musical landscape.
105
00:10:57,020 --> 00:11:01,580
On the one hand, you've got groups which
were basically rock bands with horn
106
00:11:01,580 --> 00:11:06,760
sections, like Chicago and Blood, Sweat
and Tears. On the other, you've got some
107
00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:11,860
jazz musicians who, following Miles
Davis's lead, were working in an area
108
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was then called Fusion.
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00:11:13,700 --> 00:11:19,440
People like Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea,
Stanley Clark, and preeminently Weather
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Report.
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But Steely Dan were unlike either of
those. It wasn't rock or pop music with
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ideas above its station, and it wasn't
jazzers slumming. It was a very
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well -forged ally of the two. You
couldn't separate the pop music from the
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in their music.
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I feel nothing but pride from that
track. It was one of the best tracks I
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played on.
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As far as drums were going at that time,
it was like if you had a club in your
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right hand and a club in your left hand
and clubs for feet, you could play.
119
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I had just opened my eye, I had a hair.
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Every couple of...
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with what I was playing with my right
hand on the hi -hat, and it created this
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little sound.
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00:12:26,390 --> 00:12:32,410
Now, I've done that, but never ever
heard it on the record that
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I had done, because engineers and sound
at the time, you know, it was one of
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00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:41,990
those things where it's a nuance, and
those things didn't exist.
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00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,300
I remember this was kind of a written
bass part, but he picked it up in his
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Parts of it were written. This part was
written, this verse part.
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Just a great position.
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Flapping and also fretting with his
thumb.
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Chuck had a really unique.
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Here's the chorus, which was.
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You have to ask Chuck about the thumb
business.
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They didn't want me to slap, I think,
mainly because at that time, flapping
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just becoming.
135
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:26,380
popular, and was on a lot of records.
136
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,580
However, my me being a player, I think
there are some songs that slapping
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good. And no matter who you are, you
want to keep in the fold of what's
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happening.
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Peg, that bridge there just seemed to be
a slapping thing for me.
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They said, well, no, play with your
fingers, you know, something like that.
141
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And then you play these songs so many
times that after a while, I remember
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turning just a little bit.
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either this way or this way, and putting
up a petition.
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And they were about that high.
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Of course, sitting in a much lower
chair.
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And I remember, you know, slapping.
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They never knew it went down. They never
knew it. Except afterwards, you can
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tell there was a difference in that
bridge.
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All right, and here they are.
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Put in the keyboards again here.
151
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Here's your little trio here.
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I'll tell you one thing that's
interesting that I'm listening to now is
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don't really hear, in a lot of groups
that you hear, there's a lot of doubling
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between the bass and the kick drum. You
can hear here that the kick drum is all
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sort of syncopated. It's not really.
156
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You know what I mean? It's not doubling
so much the strong beats that the bass
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is playing.
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You've got to love them.
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But it's not like you go in there and
you're just really good friends and
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play and you'll try to get into it and
they'll say, yeah, that's really good.
161
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And then the next day somebody else is
doing it, a whole other band.
162
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It wasn't like they played musical
chairs with the guys in the band. They
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musical bands. A whole band would go,
and a whole incredible other band would
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come in.
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We never came up with a band of our own
that we felt was the right combination
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of guys, that it was stable.
167
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It was just me and Walter.
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You hear somebody in a record, and you
say, wow, this guy's a great soloist.
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Let's have him come in.
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you know, what would he be good on, you
know, what would suit his style, you
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know, that's fun.
172
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This tune, I think, is infamous among
studio players in that we hired a couple
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of guitar players, you know, to play the
solo, and it wasn't quite what we were
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looking for until we got through three
or four, five.
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Players. Six or seven, you know. Six or
seven, eight players.
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To me, it was sort of like, you know,
some of it started getting foggy, right?
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would come into the studio and go, okay,
we've got another day of this that we
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have to do.
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And so some of it would just go by like,
you know, days of the week. Here we go
180
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again. Another guitar solo.
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Something else soloed? Oh, there it is.
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Let's check this out. Go back and let's
hear it in the track.
183
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There you go.
184
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In other words... Beats itself, really.
185
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Let's go see if we can find another one.
186
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This is probably the last guy to try it
before Jay did it.
187
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Here's another one.
188
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What is it? Some kind of little envelope
filter thing he's got going there on
189
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his guitar?
190
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Didn't we hear that someone did this to
you?
191
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And then finally, Jay Graydon came in
and did it with no difficulty
192
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A Hawaiian.
193
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Yeah, kind of a Polynesian. Pre -figured
my own later residence in Hawaii.
194
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I'd worked with them enough to kind of
know what I was in for.
195
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Certain words that they just wanted to
hear a certain way.
196
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Normally, under normal circumstances,
people wouldn't.
197
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This is the words, you hear the parts,
you sing it, and that's the phrasing.
198
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But for those guys...
199
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Phrasing could have such nuance that
singing a line like half as much as
200
00:18:38,380 --> 00:18:43,340
you'd think, how many different ways can
you say it in that phrasing
201
00:18:43,340 --> 00:18:50,240
rhythmically? But it would come down to
such fine points like pronunciation and
202
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exact rhythmic vibrato, no vibrato,
things like that.
203
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So it was always real challenging.
204
00:19:00,330 --> 00:19:02,750
He did a couple parts on top of himself.
205
00:19:06,810 --> 00:19:09,030
Let's check if that is hard part just to
embarrass him.
206
00:19:09,650 --> 00:19:10,650
Sorry,
207
00:19:15,610 --> 00:19:17,190
Mike. There it is.
208
00:19:18,650 --> 00:19:19,650
Totally yours, too.
209
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:31,510
It doesn't sound like much of a part,
but the harmonies were so close that
210
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:37,810
was a real learning experience for me to
sing a chord, you know, part by part
211
00:19:37,810 --> 00:19:38,810
with myself.
212
00:19:39,510 --> 00:19:43,710
You know, when you're going back in to
sing that next harmony, it's so close to
213
00:19:43,710 --> 00:19:44,710
the note you're singing.
214
00:19:45,010 --> 00:19:51,590
It was just real hard for me to discern
that interval and keep it in pitch, you
215
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:52,590
know.
216
00:19:57,490 --> 00:20:03,870
We had a pretty specific idea about how
these background parts would work and
217
00:20:03,870 --> 00:20:09,190
the sort of swing band rhythmic approach
and how we wanted it phrased and so on.
218
00:22:01,830 --> 00:22:08,230
Call me Deacon Blues, Deacon Blues
219
00:22:22,030 --> 00:22:25,050
takes that affection to an almost
philosophical level.
220
00:22:25,330 --> 00:22:31,290
It brings a nobility to that kind of
faded hipster attitude,
221
00:22:31,490 --> 00:22:36,270
which I think has very deep roots in
their own personalities.
222
00:22:36,730 --> 00:22:41,990
They were both young kids, most
influenced really by bohemian, beatnik
223
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:43,770
of the late 50s and early 60s.
224
00:23:02,060 --> 00:23:04,880
Your guitar over here, Larry Carlton.
225
00:23:06,260 --> 00:23:07,860
Tasty. Yeah.
226
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:15,080
Larry played live on a lot of these
dates, and he was very good
227
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:21,940
on rhythm dates at really being a core
pulse for tunes
228
00:23:21,940 --> 00:23:26,380
and holding them from moving around too
much rhythmically.
229
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,420
And he had usually done the charts on
tunes that he was playing on.
230
00:23:31,630 --> 00:23:35,910
I think of myself as the person that
they wanted to be the liaison between
231
00:23:35,910 --> 00:23:37,970
themselves and the studio musicians.
232
00:23:38,650 --> 00:23:43,390
They would give me their demo tape, and
it had those wonderful piano parts on
233
00:23:43,390 --> 00:23:46,050
it, and many of the bass parts were on
there also.
234
00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:51,070
And I would be the person that would
take those notes off of the tape, fill
235
00:23:51,070 --> 00:23:55,510
the blanks where they weren't sure of
what they wanted to be played, and then
236
00:23:55,510 --> 00:23:57,390
would take that chart to the session.
237
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:03,220
And I would be the person who was
familiar with the song out in the studio
238
00:24:03,220 --> 00:24:04,220
the studio musicians.
239
00:24:05,020 --> 00:24:09,540
So if Donald or Walter would say, Larry,
when we go to the bridge at the such
240
00:24:09,540 --> 00:24:14,440
and such, I would be able to tell the
musicians that's bar 19, B flat 7 with a
241
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:15,440
raise 9.
242
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:21,680
You call me a fool, you say it's a crazy
scheme.
243
00:24:25,140 --> 00:24:26,940
This one for real.
244
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:37,140
You can sort of hear the bass just sort
of floating along. You know, I was
245
00:24:37,140 --> 00:24:42,260
overdubbing over an existing track.
Usually a bass player has to work a
246
00:24:42,260 --> 00:24:47,100
harder to drive the track, but it was
already there for some reason. I kind of
247
00:24:47,100 --> 00:24:49,000
like the idea of just floating along
here at the first.
248
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,840
And here it goes to sort of a more
conventional.
249
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:59,220
Now, later we added acoustic guitar.
250
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,160
Gene Clark's? Yeah.
251
00:25:02,980 --> 00:25:03,980
Nice.
252
00:25:06,860 --> 00:25:11,180
One interesting thing about Donal and
Walter is that perfection is not what
253
00:25:11,180 --> 00:25:17,260
they're after. They're after something
that you want to listen to over and over
254
00:25:17,260 --> 00:25:21,700
again. So we would work then past the
perfection point until it became
255
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,780
until it sounded almost improvised in a
way.
256
00:25:26,590 --> 00:25:30,050
So it was like a two -step process. One
was to get to perfection and then the
257
00:25:30,050 --> 00:25:34,090
other is to get beyond it and to loosen
it up a little bit so that it didn't
258
00:25:34,090 --> 00:25:36,930
have to be the perfect squeaky clean
goal.
259
00:25:38,830 --> 00:25:41,350
It is quite an amalgamation, that's for
sure.
260
00:25:41,890 --> 00:25:45,090
And it's interesting to note that it can
be a hit.
261
00:25:52,410 --> 00:25:57,370
Deacon Blues is about as close to
autobiography as our tunes get. We were
262
00:25:57,370 --> 00:25:59,650
kids who grew up in the suburbs.
263
00:25:59,950 --> 00:26:05,850
We both felt fairly alienated. Like a
lot of kids in the 50s, we were looking
264
00:26:05,850 --> 00:26:12,310
for some kind of alternative culture,
some kind of escape, really, from where
265
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:17,150
found ourselves. And I think Deacon
Blues is a nice kind of example of that.
266
00:26:21,220 --> 00:26:23,860
The protagonist is not a musician.
267
00:26:24,220 --> 00:26:29,320
He just sort of imagines that that would
be one of the mythic forms of loserdom
268
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:30,660
to which he might aspire.
269
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,160
And, you know, who could say that he's
not right?
270
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:36,920
Nothing like that.
271
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,820
There's a synthesizer pad on here
somewhere.
272
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,660
What the hell is that all about?
273
00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:55,500
Go roll back a second, Roger. There it
is.
274
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,100
Department store, that's what I'm
thinking of. It's like that bing, bing
275
00:27:06,140 --> 00:27:08,820
What's the big toy store on 59th Street?
276
00:27:09,780 --> 00:27:13,720
FAO Schwartz. FAO Schwartz. It's like
they play that same song over and over
277
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,380
with those kinds of sounds in them. Kids
like it because it has a Christmassy.
278
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,380
It's the audio equivalent of a primary
color kind of thing, you know?
279
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,520
It's kind of a pheromone for tots to
bring them in.
280
00:27:25,740 --> 00:27:27,580
Why did we put that in there?
281
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,200
Because, you know why?
282
00:27:29,460 --> 00:27:32,920
To fatten up the hair? I think maybe
there was a flute part on the top in the
283
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,200
Munich trumpets that didn't cut.
284
00:27:34,460 --> 00:27:37,820
So we wanted to put a little high end on
the... To brighten and clarify.
285
00:27:38,220 --> 00:27:41,500
Right, so then... Here's without the
synthesizer. It goes like this.
286
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,000
Or maybe we couldn't find a flute player
or something.
287
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:51,550
Okay, now let's play it again, and I'll
put this guy in here.
288
00:27:55,550 --> 00:28:00,090
It's sort of a flute simulation, really,
wouldn't you say? Or it's marked here
289
00:28:00,090 --> 00:28:01,090
as a celeste.
290
00:28:01,650 --> 00:28:06,210
So maybe we were thinking of it for some
reason as though it were like a bells
291
00:28:06,210 --> 00:28:07,810
or something going along with that
thing.
292
00:28:08,530 --> 00:28:12,690
Although it doesn't sound the least bit
like a celeste. I was always amazed that
293
00:28:12,690 --> 00:28:16,570
they pretty much heard in their heads
what it was going to be like completed.
294
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,960
So they knew right away when you get a
bunch of musicians together and they're
295
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,880
cutting the tracks, and Donald Walter
would be sitting in the control room
296
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,200
going, no, this is not it. It's not
going to happen.
297
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,800
So maybe we'll try this other tune with
these guys.
298
00:28:29,780 --> 00:28:34,520
Then they'd get another band in to try
the tunes that didn't work out.
299
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:40,420
And all through the project, they would
know, nope, that's not it. That's not
300
00:28:40,420 --> 00:28:45,720
working. This is what I want. And it was
amazing that when the thing got done,
301
00:28:46,350 --> 00:28:49,590
Finally, I could see what everything was
going to be like.
302
00:28:49,890 --> 00:28:52,150
But they knew from the very beginning.
303
00:28:56,370 --> 00:28:57,370
It's beautiful.
304
00:28:58,350 --> 00:29:03,030
Basic gospel response type of thing.
305
00:29:04,210 --> 00:29:06,370
You put in the lead and we'll see.
306
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:39,940
Part of the reason I was driven toward
jazz was when the radio stopped playing
307
00:29:39,940 --> 00:29:42,740
Chuck Berry and Little Richard.
308
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,820
This was when I was quite young, but I
still noticed that something was wrong
309
00:29:47,820 --> 00:29:52,740
with the music after a while when they
started playing white singers like
310
00:29:52,740 --> 00:29:59,700
Frankie Avalon and that kind of thing. I
like black music,
311
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:04,480
essentially, whether it be R &B or...
gospel or jazz, you know.
312
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:11,240
My mom was a singer in the hotels in the
Catskills when she was a little girl.
313
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,960
You could do it in the summers until she
was a teenager.
314
00:30:14,380 --> 00:30:19,900
And she used to sing around the house,
so I'm familiar with the repertoire, you
315
00:30:19,900 --> 00:30:20,900
know.
316
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:26,200
Both Walter and I have a background that
includes songwriting from the 20s, 30s,
317
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,080
and 40s, and 50s, mostly in jazz
versions.
318
00:30:30,889 --> 00:30:33,670
Yeah, I mean, there are people who've
read books and there's people who ain't
319
00:30:33,670 --> 00:30:34,329
read books.
320
00:30:34,330 --> 00:30:40,750
They've got a skill that can make images
that aren't puro and don't make you
321
00:30:40,750 --> 00:30:41,750
think you've heard it before.
322
00:30:41,950 --> 00:30:46,810
Very Hollywood filmic, in a way. The
imagery is very imaginable in a visual
323
00:30:46,810 --> 00:30:47,810
sense.
324
00:30:55,230 --> 00:30:56,230
Uptown, baby.
325
00:30:56,530 --> 00:30:59,870
Uptown, baby. We get down, baby. Up on
the crown, baby.
326
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:05,840
Uptown baby, uptown baby, we get down
baby, for the crown baby. Now if it
327
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,900
for the Bronx, this rap probably never
would be going on. So tell me where you
328
00:31:09,900 --> 00:31:14,860
from. Uptown baby, uptown baby, we get
down baby, for the crown baby.
329
00:31:15,940 --> 00:31:17,460
It does sound familiar, doesn't it?
330
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,100
In the corner of my...
331
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,660
I saw you and Rudy. You were very high.
You were high.
332
00:31:34,260 --> 00:31:35,260
Crying disgrace.
333
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:41,360
Well,
334
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,940
it starts out, the guy's talking about
this girl that he's involved with, and
335
00:31:47,940 --> 00:31:53,800
she's sitting at a counter, and he
describes her behavior and habits.
336
00:31:55,210 --> 00:31:59,010
Out of that, you begin to see her
character and their relationship.
337
00:32:03,990 --> 00:32:06,990
Self -explanatory.
338
00:32:13,910 --> 00:32:17,370
This tune really does speak for itself
in a way.
339
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,660
It's daunting for the commentary. Black
cow, an ice cream soda.
340
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,020
We're confused about this, actually. I
thought it was a soda.
341
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,640
There seem to be regional variations on
the formula, but it's... Root beer and
342
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,180
vanilla ice cream or... Soft drink.
343
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:40,720
Something like that.
344
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,680
Brothy soft drink. Very big in the soda
fountains when we were kids.
345
00:32:49,660 --> 00:32:56,600
Like a gangster on the run, you'll
stagger
346
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:03,580
homeward to your precious one. I'm the
one who
347
00:33:03,580 --> 00:33:09,380
must make everything right. Talk it out
till daylight.
348
00:33:14,460 --> 00:33:19,900
Walter and I both grew up around in the
New York area. Walter originally from
349
00:33:19,900 --> 00:33:25,400
Westchester, and then I moved out to
Queens, but went to school in Manhattan.
350
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:31,460
And I'm from New Jersey, maybe 20
minutes over the bridge. So, yeah, we
351
00:33:31,460 --> 00:33:32,460
grew up in this area.
352
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,340
So I think New York life is what we most
know about.
353
00:33:40,860 --> 00:33:44,840
There's a solo by Victor, a very good
solo by Victor Feldman. Live on the
354
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:45,840
tracking, Dave.
355
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,760
We answered an ad in the Village Boys
that said, you know, must have jazz
356
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,780
Keyboard. No hang -ups. Right.
357
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,080
Keyboard.
358
00:34:07,620 --> 00:34:14,090
Keyboard. Keyboard and bass player
needed for working, you know, jazz rock
359
00:34:14,090 --> 00:34:15,670
combo. Something like that.
360
00:34:16,050 --> 00:34:18,370
You know, must have jazz chops.
361
00:34:18,690 --> 00:34:24,250
No hang -ups. No hang -ups. So we
answered the ad, and we called, and we
362
00:34:24,250 --> 00:34:27,770
out to Hicksville, Long Island, which
for us was quite a haul, you know,
363
00:34:27,770 --> 00:34:28,770
we never left Manhattan.
364
00:34:29,469 --> 00:34:33,170
We went out and we went in the basement,
you know, it was like a kid with a
365
00:34:33,170 --> 00:34:37,969
basement band, and we liked some of the
material, it was kind of early fusion
366
00:34:37,969 --> 00:34:38,969
type material.
367
00:34:39,010 --> 00:34:41,429
Before there was jazz fusion in a way.
368
00:34:48,110 --> 00:34:53,810
You know, like when they're in the same
room at the same time, they're like one
369
00:34:53,810 --> 00:34:58,450
person with two brains, you know, so
it's the highbrow intellectual humor.
370
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,480
You know, you don't get any fart jokes
or anything of the kind.
371
00:35:03,300 --> 00:35:05,340
They can usually finish each other's
sentences.
372
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,660
Well, I first met them when I put an ad
in the Village Voice because I had a
373
00:35:10,660 --> 00:35:12,860
band and we were looking for a bass
player and a piano player.
374
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:18,280
And they answered the ad, so they joined
my band at first.
375
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,580
And then one by one we realized that
there was a deficiency in certain of the
376
00:35:22,580 --> 00:35:24,780
players that, you know...
377
00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:29,770
That wasn't quite up to this, you know,
we started playing their songs right
378
00:35:29,770 --> 00:35:35,610
away and I immediately saw that these
were great songs and truth be told we
379
00:35:35,610 --> 00:35:41,370
of took over his band we kind of erected
towards the end of the other guys, you
380
00:35:41,370 --> 00:35:48,330
know and that's in a way was the core of
the Steely Dan crew later
381
00:35:48,330 --> 00:35:52,210
because when we got a job out in LA we
we sent for Danny
382
00:36:30,190 --> 00:36:34,690
When we got to California, I don't know
that we were nostalgic in a general sort
383
00:36:34,690 --> 00:36:40,950
of way for New York so much as we were
nostalgic as writers for this milieu
384
00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:45,250
we left behind. We weren't finished
writing songs with New York characters
385
00:36:45,250 --> 00:36:46,710
them yet.
386
00:36:47,010 --> 00:36:50,730
So we kept doing that, and by the time
we were finished, we had moved back to
387
00:36:50,730 --> 00:36:55,070
New York, at which point we immediately
started writing lyrics about California.
388
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:12,070
A lot of her songs are about being
homestead, I think, for New York. I've
389
00:37:12,070 --> 00:37:13,230
noticed that, actually.
390
00:37:14,530 --> 00:37:20,030
I guess it's just was our natural
inclination to write these sort of
391
00:37:20,130 --> 00:37:21,130
really.
392
00:37:21,830 --> 00:37:27,390
Home at Last, the central metaphor was
taken from Ulysses' big problem, you
393
00:37:27,390 --> 00:37:30,630
know, trying to get back home, but we
didn't take it that seriously. It's
394
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:32,190
essentially just the idea that...
395
00:37:32,650 --> 00:37:34,970
Have you read a little blues about
Ulysses?
396
00:37:37,090 --> 00:37:43,350
There's a guitar riff, sort of a Chicago
blues sort of
397
00:37:43,350 --> 00:37:47,630
item. Larry Carlton.
398
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:58,710
Donald and Walter love sophisticated
harmony, but they're rock and roll guys.
399
00:38:00,180 --> 00:38:03,600
We're contemporaries as far as age, so
we all were brought up listening to the
400
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:04,600
60s.
401
00:38:04,980 --> 00:38:08,340
And I know that they love rock and roll,
but they also have a passion for
402
00:38:08,340 --> 00:38:13,260
harmony, which, as do I. All the players
they use, we love great feeling rock
403
00:38:13,260 --> 00:38:14,720
and roll music, but we love harmony.
404
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,280
When we did Preps -O -Logic, the first
album we did with studio players, we had
405
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:38,320
done a couple of albums with our little
band, and we had heard these players and
406
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:39,840
done overdubs and stuff with them.
407
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:45,060
But I found myself in the room with
these guys, and I thought, like, wow,
408
00:38:45,060 --> 00:38:46,600
really outclassed here, you know?
409
00:38:53,900 --> 00:38:54,900
Rita Frank.
410
00:38:55,100 --> 00:38:56,100
Nina Simone.
411
00:38:57,530 --> 00:39:03,570
Roberta Flack, Donny Hathaway, James
Brown, Lloyd Price, Ray Charles,
412
00:39:03,990 --> 00:39:10,730
Frank Donatra, Heinz, Heinz, and Ford,
Barry Manlo, Dionne Warwick,
413
00:39:10,890 --> 00:39:15,990
The Animals, The Mountains, The Beatles,
B .B. King, Bobby Blue.
414
00:39:18,990 --> 00:39:23,230
Now, they already told me that they
didn't want a shuttle. They didn't want
415
00:39:23,230 --> 00:39:25,290
Motown. They didn't want the Chicago.
416
00:39:25,980 --> 00:39:31,660
But they weren't sure how and what they
wanted, but they did want halftime. I
417
00:39:31,660 --> 00:39:34,260
said, fine, then let me do the Purdy
Shuffle.
418
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,540
And they said, well, what is that? I
said, well, I'll show you where you can
419
00:39:39,540 --> 00:39:44,800
feel comfortable with it and you'll end
up getting exactly what you asked for.
420
00:39:45,260 --> 00:39:52,220
Halftime, funky, laid back, without
thinking that it's a shuffle.
421
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:54,400
And it goes something like this.
422
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,580
Let's isolate Bernard for a second
because let's look into that beat.
423
00:40:20,580 --> 00:40:27,400
Bernard, you know, this isn't easy.
You'd come in with a tune
424
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:34,200
and have sort of something in mind, but
the way Bernard played stuff was always,
425
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:39,960
he always had some unique stylistic
thing that he did that you would never
426
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,060
imagine in advance and that nobody else
would do.
427
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:44,960
This tune was...
428
00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:52,500
good example of that a lot of bernard
429
00:40:52,500 --> 00:40:58,340
hi -hat and this tune particularly a
real driving kind of
430
00:40:58,340 --> 00:41:05,000
you got the backbeat you got double time
431
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:10,180
and you have it almost shuffle
432
00:41:18,140 --> 00:41:24,280
Bernard, you know, there's a famous
story where he would come to a session
433
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:30,900
in the early 60s and he'd have two signs
with him and he'd set up these signs
434
00:41:30,900 --> 00:41:33,660
where on one side of the drums would
say, you done it.
435
00:41:34,350 --> 00:41:38,070
And then the sign on the other side
would say, you done hired the hit maker,
436
00:41:38,270 --> 00:41:39,310
Bernard Pretty Purdy.
437
00:41:39,930 --> 00:41:44,650
So it's that kind of confidence that you
need, you know, to get a good R &B
438
00:41:44,650 --> 00:41:45,650
track, you know.
439
00:42:06,220 --> 00:42:10,080
Up on the hill, people never stand.
440
00:42:11,300 --> 00:42:14,580
They just don't care.
441
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:22,360
Asia starts out in a very peaceful way
up on a hill, and it's kind of a trip,
442
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:23,580
really, to listen to it.
443
00:42:25,020 --> 00:42:27,840
Yeah, a journey through space and time.
Journey through space and time.
444
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,540
Asia's was a combination of a number of
different tunes that we had that were
445
00:42:39,540 --> 00:42:44,720
sewn together to make kind of a little
sweet, if you will. And it was kind of
446
00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:45,720
sweet, wasn't it?
447
00:42:46,700 --> 00:42:50,800
We were feeling lucky that year, and we
thought, you know, there wouldn't be any
448
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:57,140
problem with moving into a slightly more
ambitious sort of extended
449
00:42:57,140 --> 00:43:01,340
composition. But we immediately
regrouped after that and went back to
450
00:43:01,660 --> 00:43:03,480
You know, we wouldn't want too much of a
good thing.
451
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:29,880
Asia is
452
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:37,400
the
453
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:42,980
name of a woman. I had a friend in high
school, and he had an older brother.
454
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,360
And he went to Korea and married a
Korean girl and brought her back, and
455
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:48,360
name was Asia.
456
00:43:48,820 --> 00:43:54,240
And we thought that was a good name,
just it was a very romantic sort of
457
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:58,560
the sort of tranquility that can come of
a quiet relationship with a beautiful
458
00:43:58,560 --> 00:43:59,560
woman.
459
00:44:06,810 --> 00:44:11,670
Very existence is a contradiction. I
mean, when have you ever heard a song on
460
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:15,690
rock and roll record that absolutely
cannot be played on a guitar?
461
00:44:18,610 --> 00:44:20,730
I think that's me playing the guitar
there.
462
00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:22,250
That's Walter playing the guitar.
463
00:44:25,530 --> 00:44:27,410
Freshly released piece of outboard
equipment.
464
00:44:28,670 --> 00:44:29,670
Denny again.
465
00:44:39,100 --> 00:44:44,440
There's clusters where the notes are so
close together that you can't stretch
466
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,920
your fingers far enough to get all the
notes out at the same time.
467
00:44:47,900 --> 00:44:54,080
There's open voicings that are so wide
apart that you can't reach the notes.
468
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,020
All you can do is pick a few and play
them.
469
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:01,620
And even still, you don't quite get the
flavor of the chord because it requires
470
00:45:01,620 --> 00:45:07,200
that contrast of a cluster chord and
then an open chord.
471
00:45:08,500 --> 00:45:09,840
and the way it progresses.
472
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,620
Jazz is a dangerous, double -edged
thing.
473
00:45:13,140 --> 00:45:17,060
You mustn't do too much of it, and I
don't think Steady Dan do do too much of
474
00:45:17,060 --> 00:45:20,240
it. I think they use that knowledge and
that love they've obviously got.
475
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:26,820
You know, Parker, Mingus, I can hear in
there, I can hear lots of really, I can
476
00:45:26,820 --> 00:45:30,680
hear Blakey, I can hear jazz messengers
in there, I can hear lots and lots of
477
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,740
Bobby Timmons, I can hear in there. The
subject matter doesn't matter.
478
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:36,260
It's the sound they're making.
479
00:45:38,250 --> 00:45:41,550
And then we also added Wayne Shorter on
tenor saxophone.
480
00:45:42,270 --> 00:45:44,370
We were very glad that he came in.
481
00:45:44,610 --> 00:45:47,670
It took a while, as I recall, to
persuade him to come down.
482
00:45:48,210 --> 00:45:49,690
He didn't really beat dates.
483
00:45:49,930 --> 00:45:55,610
And I think he felt that the chances
were that we would be asking him to do
484
00:45:55,610 --> 00:45:59,910
something that was not particularly
appropriate, a reasonable
485
00:45:59,910 --> 00:46:03,770
fear under the circumstances.
486
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,400
I was invited to play on the record.
487
00:46:09,740 --> 00:46:13,980
It was quite a matter of fact, you know,
I said, yes, you know.
488
00:46:16,100 --> 00:46:19,480
And they asked me how I wanted to do it.
489
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:25,780
And I said, just roll the tape, just,
you know, in the section where I'm
490
00:46:25,780 --> 00:46:32,140
supposed to be playing, and I'll get a
reference from what's going on, about
491
00:46:32,140 --> 00:46:35,240
what's going on before and what comes
after.
492
00:46:35,980 --> 00:46:39,520
I listened to it, and then I started to
perform.
493
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:44,640
I remember he was a little worried about
playing the things, getting into how he
494
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:49,420
used to play with Miles, you know, and
of course that didn't bother us at all.
495
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:56,940
I walked in the studio, they were
sitting, they had the lights down, my
496
00:46:56,940 --> 00:46:59,040
was to do what I'm going to do.
497
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,460
I'd sit down and say, hey, how are you,
you know.
498
00:47:04,609 --> 00:47:07,990
In fact, when we grew up, we thought
that was corny in my neighborhood.
499
00:47:10,310 --> 00:47:13,070
I said, don't wear your heart on your
sleeve.
500
00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:16,730
He said, don't give too much away.
501
00:47:34,610 --> 00:47:39,610
Musicians were a key to, you know, the
music that eventually, you know, got put
502
00:47:39,610 --> 00:47:40,610
out.
503
00:47:42,570 --> 00:47:47,410
I think Asia probably was a point, you
know, a turning point where the music
504
00:47:47,410 --> 00:47:53,830
really became another level of
sophistication of writing and performing
505
00:47:53,830 --> 00:47:54,830
Donald.
506
00:47:55,910 --> 00:48:00,970
The most seamless joining of jazz and
pop that there'd ever been.
507
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,460
There's nothing else quite as
sophisticated as that in all of rock
508
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:14,760
When we first started, we were more
writing pop songs at the time that maybe
509
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,640
an infusion of our interest in jazz and
so on. But by the time we did Asia, I
510
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,880
think we knew more what we enjoyed
doing, really.
511
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,960
Certainly through the Asia album, I
think, you know, our stuff improved.
512
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:35,920
The Asia album was the most successful
example of what we were trying to do
513
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:37,040
using studio bands.
514
00:48:37,300 --> 00:48:40,520
And, you know, there's a very good
possibility that something like that
515
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,400
fall flat on its face and then it won't
work.
516
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:47,540
And that was just sort of a spectacular
success, and we all knew it. And that's
517
00:48:47,540 --> 00:48:48,800
what I hear when I look at that record.
518
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:50,460
If you ask songwriters from my
generation, my and
519
00:52:50,460 --> 00:52:55,480
Donald's generation, about who were
520
00:52:55,480 --> 00:53:02,300
the important lyricists from their time,
Bob Dylan
521
00:53:02,300 --> 00:53:03,480
is always going to be mentioned.
522
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:10,900
And I don't think that what we do sounds
much like Bob
523
00:53:10,900 --> 00:53:11,900
Dylan,
524
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:18,320
He was the guy that sort of opened the
door to a larger world of possibilities
525
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:24,360
and realized that by superimposing more
interesting or more literate or more
526
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:29,580
obscure or more extravagant lyrics on
rock and roll beats, you would end up
527
00:53:29,580 --> 00:53:31,840
something intriguing.
528
00:53:32,580 --> 00:53:34,540
We were sort of the first TV generation.
529
00:53:34,980 --> 00:53:41,560
I was interested in TV music, movie
soundtracks.
530
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:48,460
I could sometimes tell who wrote the
score just from hearing the music, if it
531
00:53:48,460 --> 00:53:55,400
was Elmer Bernstein or Dave Grusin or,
you know, Alex
532
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:56,400
North or whoever.
533
00:53:57,740 --> 00:54:04,340
And also, it was like sort of cheap
music, like TV music or movie
534
00:54:04,340 --> 00:54:06,580
music. By cheap, I simply mean...
535
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:11,660
Not really in a disparaging way, but
it's written to support something else.
536
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:16,180
It's not pure music, but it's rather
written to support visual information.
537
00:54:18,020 --> 00:54:21,240
There was something also funny about
that music.
538
00:54:21,980 --> 00:54:25,140
There was something funny about the
theme from The Twilight Zone.
539
00:54:25,580 --> 00:54:31,280
Something funny about the jazz score for
The
540
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:34,720
Sweet Smell of Success.
541
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:37,740
It was like fake jazz, essentially.
542
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:44,900
And so I both like real jazz and also
fake jazz and also fake fake jazz, you
543
00:54:44,900 --> 00:54:45,900
know.
544
00:59:08,700 --> 00:59:14,600
You in your life, you're a march, you're
a screamer. You know how to hustle.
545
00:59:19,980 --> 00:59:20,799
I don't care.
546
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:22,740
Yeah, you got the muscle.
547
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:25,840
I got the...
548
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:34,180
Yes,
549
00:59:34,180 --> 00:59:36,440
Bill, how did you know?
550
00:59:39,420 --> 00:59:41,300
Can't you see love will grow?
551
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:47,660
You know, my favorite thing is when they
come up and they say, hey.
552
00:59:48,220 --> 00:59:49,560
are you that guy in Steely Dan?
553
00:59:50,620 --> 00:59:53,620
And he'd say, yeah. And I'd say, no,
you're not.
554
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:55,080
You're not him.
555
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:56,520
That's what I like.
49202
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