All language subtitles for Masterclass Salman Rushdie Teaches Storytelling and Writing - 16.Editing and Feedback.The Confidence to Share

SALMAN RUSHDIE: I think
it's quite normal when

you are starting out
on a life as a writer

that you should be filled
with uncertainty and doubt.

And it's worst at the beginning.

It actually never
completely goes away.

You always worry that what
you're doing is rubbish.

But at the beginning, you have
to overcome that, and I did.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

If somebody says to me, "Can
I see what you're doing?"

If somebody says to me, "Can
I see what you're doing?"

and my reaction to that
is to feel embarrassed,

then I know immediately
that it's not ready.

I think embarrassment
is an infallible test

because, of course,
what we're all

trying to do is to write
things that we want

other people to read, you know,
that we're happy and excited

for other people to read.

And if we are
embarrassed to show it,

it means we know, in
our heart of hearts,

that it ain't there
yet, you know.

that it ain't there
yet, you know.

And I have frequently found
that, you know, my book

editor has said, how are
you doing with your new book

and can I see something,
and I go, you know,

eh, just wait a bit because I
know it's not ready to show.

And then, there
is another moment

when I become excited to
show it, when I think,

OK, yeah, I now want
people to read it,

and that the embarrassment
reflex has disappeared.

And when that
happens, I think you

And when that
happens, I think you

will know that the moment
has come, you know,

when other eyes need
to alight on the page.

There are writers who show
people things all the time,

you know, almost every
day if they have,

like, a significant other, or
they have a good relationship

with an agent or an editor.

They're always sending pages
to be told whether they

work or not, to be reassured
that the thing is going

a good direction or
to be asked questions

which they need to resolve about
what they've sent, you know.

which they need to resolve about
what they've sent, you know.

And there are other writers
who hug it to themselves

until it's much more complete.

And, again, you
have to work out--

that's a temperamental issue.

I remember going to--

a long time ago--

going to a reading given by the
writer John Irving, in which he

prefaced his reading
by saying what

I'm going to read you now is
a first draft of something

I'm writing.

And I want you to tell me where
you think all the problems are.

And I want you to tell me where
you think all the problems are.

I thought, that's just
terrifyingly brave of him,

you know, to show work which
he knows to be imperfect

and to actually ask the
audience to help him.

That was extraordinary,
I thought.

I would be far too nervous
to do a thing like that.

My way of doing
it has been always

to take it as far as I can
by myself without showing it.

to take it as far as I can
by myself without showing it.

And I think one of
the things you learn

is when you're not
making things better,

you're just pushing
things around

and making them different.

You know, I think you have
to learn to see that moment,

you know.

And at that moment, that's
what I would call finishing.

At that moment, I become
very, very interested

in what other people have to
say, what my editor has to say,

what two or three good friends,
who will tell me the truth,

have to say.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

[MUSIC PLAYING]

The most important thing is
to know who will tell you

the absolute truth.

What you should not need is
somebody to pat you on the back

and tell you you're wonderful.

No, that's not helpful.

Even if it's true,
it's not helpful.

You need people who will
say this is exactly what I

You need people who will
say this is exactly what I

felt when I was reading it.

That over here, you kind
of lost my attention,

and over here, you got it back.

Sometimes when you're
writing, you know,

you're so immersed in it,
you're so close to it,

that it's difficult to
have the objectivity

of another pair of eyes.

You know, it doesn't have to
be a publisher or an agent,

or it doesn't have to be
a business relationship.

As long as there are
people who you think

As long as there are
people who you think

are good readers
that you know, who

will read what you've
written and give you

a truthful response to
it, that's what you need.

There's a kind of miraculous
thing that happens.

When your book that you have
hugged to yourself for however

long you've worked on
it-- you know, it's

just been you and the book.

There's nobody else there.

The moment when the book leaves
your desk, and it's just-- it's

on somebody else's desk,
before they've said anything

to you, just the fact that
you know that other people's

to you, just the fact that
you know that other people's

eyes are on the book,
it makes you look

at the book in a different way.

And just that, before
anybody said anything to you,

that can help you see things.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

When I hand a draft of the
book to an early reader,

I say nothing at all.

I tell them nothing.

I want to see how they
read the book without my

I want to see how they
read the book without my

trying to influence them.

Because, you know, you want
the book to speak for itself.

When somebody buys a
book in a bookstore,

it doesn't come with the
writer's explanation.

It's just the book, and it
has to do the work by itself.

So my view is, if I give
you the book to read,

I'm going to say nothing.

I'm just going to let you read
it and see what your take is.

You can't help the book by
telling your early readers what

You can't help the book by
telling your early readers what

they should see in it.

The question is whether
they do see the things

you want them to see.

And if they don't, how can
you make sure that they do?

How can you improve
the text to make sure

that they do see what
you want them to see?

[MUSIC PLAYING]

When you get notes or editorial
comments either from a friend

or from an editor, you should
take them seriously and really

or from an editor, you should
take them seriously and really

think about them.

But you should also
remember that in the end,

this is your book and you know
it better than anyone else.

And if it doesn't feel
right to you, don't do it.

Very few editors will
force you to make a change

just because they think so.

If you can say why you think
that you don't want to do it,

If you can say why you think
that you don't want to do it,

then you should--
you know, there

are moments when you have
to stick to your guns

and just say that
you want it that way.

Having said that,
I mean, I always

pay very serious attention
to my editor's notes.

And I would say, thinking of
the last two or three books,

that probably 75%
of them were things

that led me to do
something, something

that led me to do
something, something

small sometimes and something
larger at other times.

But and there were about
25% of them where I thought,

no, I don't want to do that.

So you should think about it
that way, that everything that

comes to you in the
way of notes needs

your serious
consideration, you know.

But that doesn't mean that you
don't have the right to say no.

I've had, you know,
editors very shrewdly

put their finger on
where problem points are

put their finger on
where problem points are

in a manuscript.

And I mean, I think the
great publishing editor

is able to show you where the
difficulty is, but doesn't

tell you how to fix it.

You know, just says
here, I've got a problem.

See what you can do with this.

And then, you go
away and fix it.

It's usually not that helpful
when somebody tells you,

you should do it like this.

But to have somebody
putting their finger

on points along the way
where they think you--

there's some problem,
that can be very helpful,

and you should be open to that.

and you should be open to that.

Not to think about it as
an adversarial relationship

is a good thing.

You know, because that--

if you do, then it
makes you defensive.

Actually, the only
thing that matters

is getting the book
as good as it can be.

Because once it's
published, it's

going to stay in that
form for a very long time.

So the best thing you
can do is to have--

as I say, if you have a good
relationship with one book

editor, work with them.

Work with them, and try
and come to an agreement.

Work with them, and try
and come to an agreement.

You know, and it's
to that extent,

it becomes a collaborative
process at that moment.

Having been a solitary
process for most of its life,

at the very end,
the book becomes

a bit more collaborative
that you're

working with somebody to--

with a common goal,
you know, which

is to try and get it
as good as it can be.

It's difficult because you feel
very possessive about the work

you've made.

You feel, you know,
proud of it, and you

feel sometimes defensive of it.

But I think you have to be open
to that kind of conversation

But I think you have to be open
to that kind of conversation

if you feel that
the person you're

having a conversation with
is basically in sympathy

with what you're trying to do.

You know, that's
to say you don't

want somebody who
really wants it

to be a different kind of book.

That's not helpful to you.

But if you know that
you're, so to speak,

both pulling in
the same direction,

you're both trying to make the
book that exists as good as it

can be, then it's then that
kind of-- those readings

can be, then it's then that
kind of-- those readings

can be very helpful.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

To give you an example, after
"Midnight's Children" was

accepted by the publishers,
before it was published,

when it was going through
an editorial process,

one of the readers
suggested that there

was a redundant character.

Like, in the original,
in that version

of the book that
I had submitted,

the narrator Saleem was
not only telling his story

the narrator Saleem was
not only telling his story

to this woman, Padma, who
works in his pickle factory.

There was a second
audience figure as well.

And this reader said to
me, you don't need that.

You already got your
audience figure.

You don't need another one.

And my initial
response was defensive.

You know, hang on,
my book-- you know,

not an unnatural response.

Two or three other
people read the book,

Two or three other
people read the book,

and they all said
the same thing.

So then, I thought, OK,
I'm going to try it.

I'm going to try and
remove this character.

And if it's very difficult
to remove the character,

I will tend to believe that
I'm right and you're wrong.

But let me try.

And when I sat down to
remove the character,

I removed the character
from the book in 24 hours.

It just fell out on the floor.

And that showed me that
they had been right.

And the book now, as
published, is much better

And the book now, as
published, is much better

for having lost that character.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

With "Midnight's Children," I
thought, if this doesn't work,

then maybe I don't know
what a good book is,

you know, and maybe I should
do something else with my life.

You know, so it was
like Hollywood or bust

with that book.

You know, and fortunately,
it wasn't bust.

But yes, I was full of doubt.

I have to say pretty scared
all the way through writing it,

I have to say pretty scared
all the way through writing it,

and indeed, when I'd finished,
because it's an immense book.

You know, I mean, it's
something like a quarter

of a million words.

You know, it's like 600 pages.

And I had no reputation as a
writer at all at that point.

I mean, I had published
one previous novel

that, to be frank, had
not done very well.

You know, and so, yeah,
I was completely afraid

You know, and so, yeah,
I was completely afraid

that the book would
have no future.

You know, even when I finished
it, one part of my head

was saying that I was pretty
pleased with it, that I felt

that, as far as I could tell,
it was as good a book as I could

write.

And another part of
my head was saying,

who's going to want this?

Here's this kind
of weird novel that

has no European or
American characters in it.

has no European or
American characters in it.

It's all brown people.

Actually, there's one white guy
in it, but it's a small part.

And I thought, you
know, who is going

to want to read this, apart
from a few close friends

and family members?

And I was full of doubts
about whether it would even

find a publisher.

And that went on until, I mean,
I was lucky in that, basically,

the first publishers
in the UK who

saw it wanted to publish it.

saw it wanted to publish it.

And then I discovered
afterwards that even

that hadn't been a certain
thing, that actually

the first reader's report
on "Midnight's Children"

that was sent to Jonathan Cape
with the British publishers,

now part of Random
House, was very negative.

It was actually very short.

It said something
like this novel

is a fat ramble through
the author's mind,

and he should concentrate
on short stories

and he should concentrate
on short stories

until he has mastered
the novel form.

I mean, about as bad a
review as you can get.

And fortunately, I
had a-- well, there

was an editor at the
publishing company

who thought better
of it than that.

And she sent it out for
a second reader's report,

which was very favorable.

And then the editors
between them at the company

decided that they would go
along with the favorable report

and not the unfavorable.

And I never knew about
this at the time.

You know, I found
out about it later.

When the novel
had been published

When the novel
had been published

and when it had won
the Booker Prize,

some newspaper got
hold of this story

that it had had a bad reader's
report and published it.

And I called my publisher, and
I said, what's this nonsense?

And then, they admitted
that it was true.

So fortunately, I
found out about it

when it didn't
matter, because it

would have certainly only
added to my absolute doubt

about what I'd done.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

These days, you know, for a lot
of people, a lot of writers,

their most long-term
relationship is not

with their publishing editor,
but with their literary agent.

Publishing has become a world
in which people move jobs

all the time.

You know, you don't necessarily
have the same editor for a book

after book after book.

You do if you're lucky.

But you probably
have the same agent

for a lot of your
life as a writer.

And that may be the person
with whom you need to have a--

And that may be the person
with whom you need to have a--

if the book isn't
finding a home easily,

it may be that it
is the agent and you

who can sit down and think about
what might need to be done.

And it's possible the agent
will say to you, look,

there's a lot of publishers.

You only need one
of them who's going

to get it and like what you do.

So let's keep going.

And I know a lot of writers
who have been turned down

by 20, 25 editors, publishers,
and have then found one,

by 20, 25 editors, publishers,
and have then found one,

and then the book's
been very successful.

I mean, that's-- most famously,
that's true of Harry Potter.

It was turned down
by a lot of people.

And look what happened.

So it is true that if
you end up with one place

where people get it,
people get what you've

done, that's all you need.

So it may be that your
agent will encourage you not

to despair and to keep going.

Or you may agree that there's
something you need to fix.

You know, if a
number of publishers

You know, if a
number of publishers

are all coming back and
saying the same kind of thing

about what they
have a problem with,

then maybe you need to
try and think about that.