All language subtitles for Masterclass Margaret Atwood Teaches Creative Writing - 08.Creating Compelling Characters

[MUSIC PLAYING]

So the question that--

that people in books should be
really nice people all the time

and that women in particular
ought to be very well-behaved,

first of all it's not
real life as we know.

first of all it's not
real life as we know.

And second, women come in
all shapes and sizes, ages

and stages, heights and
colors in different parts

of the world.

And to expect or demand that
they be angelic and perfect

is very Victorian.

There is limited
space on a pedestal.

You don't get to
move around a lot.

So my view is that
women are people,

and that people are not perfect.

and that people are not perfect.

And that there are many,
many different kinds of them.

And why should that not
be reflected in fiction?

When you're writing, you're
going to be looking at how

people in the world
you're writing about,

if it's the present age
or if it's the 50's--

those are two very
different periods--

how they are performing gender--

which is always to
a certain extent

a way of presenting
yourself in society--

to other people.

to other people.

What am I conveying to
other people about myself

by this performance of gender?

So gender is partly dependent
on how it is performed

in a historical period.

So what does it mean, for
instance, in the Tudor era

to be a male person?

What does it mean to
be a female person?

What do those things
mean when they're

at different social levels?

at different social levels?

Because that, too,
varies from age to age.

Women actually lost a lot of
rights in the 19th century

that they had had earlier.

And some of the
things that they've

tried to regain in
the 20th and 21st

were things they had
had before the 19th.

One of the big offenders was
Napoleon Bonaparte, by the way.

And let us mention that
in the French Revolution,

they're very vague
on the Declaration

of the Rights of Man.

of the Rights of Man.

But when a woman came
along with the Declaration

of the Rights of Women, they
denounced her as a traitor

and chopped off her head.

So what does gender
mean has been going on

for a very long time.

And in our age,
we no longer think

that there are only two
packages, pink and blue.

And science has backed that up.

It's a bell curve,
it's a continuum.

It's a bell curve,
it's a continuum.

And your character can
be situated anywhere

on that continuum.

"The Robber Bride,"
the name comes

from a gender switch
on a Grimm's fairy tale

called "The Robber Bridegroom."

It's a female thief
rather than a male thief,

and it's structured like the
opera, "Tales of Hoffman."

and it's structured like the
opera, "Tales of Hoffman."

That is, it has a prologue, then
it has three stories embedded

within it, one for each of
the three other characters.

And then it has an epilogue,
just like "Tales of Hoffman,"

the opera.

So there is Zenia, who
is the eminance grise

of the piece, who appears
in all of the stories.

And then there are
the three friends,

And then there are
the three friends,

to whom these stories happen.

And each one of them involves
Zenia stealing their man

but in very different ways.

And she is the kind
of character who

can restructure her story
and even her identity

to conform with
what might appeal

to that particular woman.

How does she get in the door?

How does she gain their
confidence and then betray it?

How does she gain their
confidence and then betray it?

So it's that kind of character.

And I wrote it in part
because somebody said to me,

there are no female con-men.

And I said, oh yes there are.

So Zenia became quite
popular, oddly enough.

I was in England, and I
was talking about her.

And I said, which
of the characters

in "The Robber Bride" do
you identify with the most?

And they said, Zenia.

And I said why do you do that?

And I said why do you do that?

She's not a very nice person.

They said, because
women are tired

of being good all the time.

And it is indeed quite
wearing to be expected

to be good all the time.

So I think in a way,
she was an outlet.

You enjoy seeing how they manage
to deceive people and get away

with what they get away with.

Not that you would do it
yourself, of course not.

What makes a compelling villain?

Yes, who was it?

William Blake said, the devil
has got all the good lines.

It depends on what kind of
novel you're writing, again.

If you're writing
Dr. Faustus, we

watch Mephistopheles in action.

So I think really it's a
question of if you don't quite

know what a character
is going to do next--

know what a character
is going to do next--

think of some of the
noteworthy villains.

Hannibal Lecter, you don't know
what he's going to do next,

and that's what makes
him interesting.

You have to engage with him.

You have to keep
your eyes on him,

because you may change
his line of defense.

He may change his tactic
with without warning.

Unpredictability.

So surprise me.

And if you're surprising
me, you're engaging me.

And if you're surprising
me, you're engaging me.

If your surprise is convincing.

Likability is a factor when
you're choosing a roommate.

But it's not
necessarily a factor

when you're creating
a living character.

You will find people saying
the central character isn't

likeable.

And you'll find
other people saying

that's not the only criterion.

So Captain Ahab is not
in any way likable.

So Captain Ahab is not
in any way likable.

But he is compelling.

Let's put it that way.

There's a book by John
Gardner called "Grendel."

and it's from the point
of view of the monster

Grendel in the Beowulf story.

It's absolutely riveting.

He's a completely
unpleasant character.

So a character can be
very vibrant and alive

although not likable.

although not likable.

So think of the
people in your life.

Think of the people that you're
interested in hearing about.

What have they done now?

What have they got up to now?

What sort of a mess
are they in now?

On the other hand,
there is Mabel,

who is always well-behaved.

Are you interested in
hearing more about Mabel?

No, not particularly.

But if I tell you that
Richard III has just

murdered all his
relatives, you're

probably going to perk up.

And I think that comes from our
deep evolutionary background.

When things are stable, we don't
have to pay that much attention

to them.

It's when the wolf
comes out of the woods

that we get very alert.

So dangerous and
unstable characters--

characters we can't
necessarily predict,

characters that we don't know
whether they're telling us

characters that we don't know
whether they're telling us

the truth or not--

they hold our attention in
a way that Mabel doesn't.

I got Mabel out of "The
Pirates of Penzance," yeah.

She's always very good.