Original subtitles

Thank you for doing this.

I'm amazed.

I never thought I would speak to anyone around Zelensky, and I know you're doing

this at some great risk to yourself, so thank you very much. So you were

President Zelensky's press secretary.

Yes. First of all, thank you for having me, and I never expected to see myself

here talking about my former boss, Volodymyr Zelensky.

I used to work for him for two years, since 2019 until 2021.

How did you wind up working for him?

Well, Volodymyr Zelenskyy announced the job via Facebook and everybody started

applying. And I didn't want to apply first because I thought he would take

someone, you know, nepotically.

But there was an open application and I won through 4 ,000 of applicants.

It's not a joke.

And then, actually, I need to prove myself that I can do a job and that he

trust me. But, yeah, we found the common ground. And I think I was very faithful

towards him, you know.

And I supported him. And I supported him in 2022 when Russia

made its large -scale invasion.

As millions of Ukrainians, I was grateful that he stayed in the country.

That's why it's so...

So strange and desperate for me to be here and to talk who he really is. I

have personal vendetta, but I believe that he is one of the biggest obstacles

towards peace today. So I wanted to tell the people who he is.

Who is he?

First of all, he's not a person whom you see on camera.

He's a very different person. He changes masks all the time. He is emotionally

uncontrollable.

Emotionally uncontrollable. Yeah, he doesn't control his emotions. He's often

hysterical and he thinks that every person is disposable.

He doesn't have empathy that he plays.

He's absolutely insanely great actor.

And that brought us a lot of support in 2022.

But his acting doesn't have any substance and everything that he's

It's so detached from the reality.

The majority of the things that he's saying, it's either manipulation or it's

fact that is being taken from the context or it's pure lies.

And millions of people still believe that supporting Zelensky means

Ukraine. But today it's different.

Tucker, I would like to say I'm not here to justify Russian invasion. I'm not

here to justify Putin.

What Russian army is doing in Ukraine equals crimes against humanity.

Yes. But this war is not black and white anymore.

It's dark and even darker.

We just see Putin as an evil, but Zelensky is also an evil.

He's just a hidden one. He plays such a teddy bear, you know, on camera. But

then when the light goes off, he's a grizzly bear and he destroys the people.

It's almost surreal to recollect that almost every Western leader and Western

delegations that were coming to Ukraine before the war, they treated Zelensky as

a political novice. They saw he was low educated, unqualified and low depth.

But then overnight, he just turned into this great face of democracy.

But it feels like the West created the myth, fell into it, and the

West keeps ignoring the fact that beneath Zelensky's rhetoric,

heroic rhetoric, he keeps accumulating power.

And I'm not afraid to say he keeps hollowing the very same people he claims

save.

It's pretty strong to say, I know that.

But I believe that people need to understand that if you want to support

Ukraine, the only way to support Ukraine today is to push for the peace deal.

This is the only way that Ukraine can survive because I believe we are on the

verge of extinction.

Somebody is talking about two, three years of war anymore.

It just like doesn't come up with numbers, with demography, with anything,

all the suffering that's happening in the country.

No,

no, thank you. Thank you for saying that. I agree. I'm not Ukrainian.

I don't understand the point of this. I mean, I have many questions about how

and why it started.

But what's beyond question is Ukraine as a nation is being eliminated. That's

obvious to me. Biggest country in Europe. So it's a big deal.

What are, since you mentioned numbers, how many people live in Ukraine?

So when you started working for Zelensky, you worked for the government

Ukraine in 2019. How many Ukrainians were there in Ukraine?

So officially, Ukraine is the country of 40 -42 million people. But we had the

last census, I think, in 2000 or 2001, and we did not manage to organize

one. So when I was working for the government, government officials,

Zelensky, were telling the numbers that they believed there are 34 -37 million

Ukrainians in the country.

Now, with around 10 plus million of Ukrainians turning into refugees, going

the West, some stay in occupation, you know, Eastern countries, and even some

Russia, perhaps there are around 25 million Ukrainians in the country. And

worst thing is that 11 million of them are retired people.

And these retired people live for the pensions from 75 to...

$180 to $100 per month.

And Ukraine is not that super cheap country where you can actually survive

this money.

Just two weeks or three weeks ago, there was a terrible story when one director,

movie director of Ukraine, who was a retired person, died at his home.

And his neighbor wrote that he died from hunger and cold.

There were the severe temperatures in Ukraine and he didn't have anyone to

him. I just like wonder if ever we will know the statistics, how many people

died from this cold and from having no opportunities to survive. You're saying

that the Ukraine right now has maybe 15 million, maybe

fewer working people working.

People actually who are working in the entire country. Well, you don't count

children. Children are not working, right? So I don't know how many children

under 18 are there.

But perhaps if we have around 10 million working people, that would be fine.

Wow, that's amazing.

Yes. How many have died in the war, do you know?

The numbers are very different and it's very difficult to count. Right now, the

official UN verified statistics is around 15 ,000 of civilians.

The numbers of those who turned into military are not known.

So it's very hard to know. But only in Mariupol it is known that there are

graves for around 20 ,000 of Ukrainians. So I guess there are at least hundreds

of thousands of those who died, and we will just never know the numbers.

I'm sorry, it's so painful to talk about.

Well, it's absolutely awful. But I'm wondering why, well, my government,

has funded a lot of this war, why we can't get a straight answer from the U

government. from the Ukrainian government, the Russian government.

I mean, no one seems to have an interest in finding out the real number of dead.

Yes. Well, it's very difficult to do because how do you do this in

right? There is no any relation with that side that would allow to learn this

information. And the other side, which is Russian side, obviously is interested

in hiding the numbers, right? Yes. I don't believe in verified numbers.

And obviously...

Look, many people who are military now, they used to be just ordinary civilians,

right? Engineers, IT guys, journalists working their everyday life, and then

they turned into military.

So, of course, they are soldiers, but they are also people, right? And they

dying.

And there are a lot of these things I've heard from the front lines when a

person was killed and the body is brought and he has a bullet in his head.

The government officials, you know, local officials just don't want to put

as a dad from the front line. So they say he died from a heart attack, for

instance. Yeah, it's war.

And I think it was happening in every war.

It's just like, I think we will never know the true number, but there are so

many people who are suffering there.

And, you know, I told you this terrible story about retired people and that they

live for such.

Absolutely outrageously low pensions.

Just when I talk about Zelensky, I'm an insider.

I talk to so many people who used to work for him or even those people who

for him.

And to be clear,

I believe that he stands behind many schemes of money laundering.

And one of the stories is that I have a friend who was shortlisted for the

position of the Ministry of Social Policies during the light -scale

And he was called and he said that he was one of five candidates.

And he would be interviewed by Zelensky and Mr. Yermak, then chief of staff of

President Zelensky. And he was told that during the interview, he would need to

come up with the schemes of money laundering so that they are financed

Ministry of Social Policy.

And Ministry of Social Policy is the ministry that is responsible for

So when we're talking about those poor pensioners, you know, and knowing the

fact that Zelensky himself approves the schemes of money laundering, I mean, is

he guilty? I want your audience to respond to that, okay?

Do you understand the desperation of mine?

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I think most people watching assume that Ukraine is corrupt and has been for a

long time and that the Zelensky regime is especially corrupt. I think Americans

believe that. But there's almost no evidence that has come out in the

press. The American media has not written very much about his corruption.

you think that is?

You know, I saw good pieces about corruption, but you're right that there

not too many of them. It's very hard, first of all, to prove it.

I think there was also some kind of agreement, not official one, right?

Unofficial agreement that we all need to support Zelensky because this means to

support Ukraine.

We're all united, you know, to support Ukraine. But Zelensky abused this

unity. He abused our belief in democracy. He abused our fight.

He abused our sacrifice.

Ukrainian sacrifice and what the Europeans and Americans were doing for

abused, actually, the trust of so many people.

I believe that, you know, millions who still support Zelensky, they were, you

know, looking for some great guy in politics. They wanted to believe that

is someone, you know, Churchill or whatever, a historic guy who would

something good for the people. And Zelensky is an amazing actor.

He's going to give... you what you want exactly and that's that's what's

happening he still plays on camera this great guy but believe me behind the

camera he's very different i was working for two years for two years this guy

was repeating two phrases which are very vocal about him one of them he was

saying ukraine is not ready for democracy and this is a quote another

dictatorship is an order So how on earth a person who believes that Ukraine is

not ready for democracy and that dictatorship is an order actually can be

face of democracy?

Someone who's canceled elections, who's not actually elected president, I

couldn't agree more. So what in 2019, 2020, 2021, what

was Zelensky saying about Russia?

Zelensky came to the presidency as the president of peace.

Yes. During his electoral... We've seen this before.

Oh, yeah.

He's the guy who made himself in Russia. The first biggest money he made was in

Russia, millions of dollars.

He was working for Russian propaganda channels, and he was fine with that.

Furthermore... He was?

Of course, he made all his career, tens of years. He was everywhere in Moscow.

By the way, when the first Russian invasion in Donbass happened and Russia

annexed Crimea, he was spending time in Russia.

He was finishing his movie, for which he got a lot of money, and he even

recognized this in August 2019.

I think he wrote, yes, I was in Russia. I was finishing the movie. It was 2014.

The war was going on.

Furthermore, I'm writing a book right now. And it's a different book. It's a

book about real Zelensky. And I learned a lot of facts and talked to a lot of

people.

And this information was nowhere.

But it happened that he had several properties in Crimea.

And when the war was happening in Donbass already, he was spending time in

Crimea having weed with...

I mean, Marijuana, with his friends from 95th Quartal and making facilities

there and enjoying time.

And he didn't care that Russia annexed Crimea already. While it was Russian

-controlled? Yes, it was under Russian control. He was vacationing in Russian

-controlled Crimea? Yes.

It was May 2014. I talked to a person who was working for him, a person who

helping him put the windows into the house, and a person was telling

details about how Zelensky was behaving.

So everything that Zelensky is saying is really...

is really very different truth, you know, very different truth.

So he was the peace candidate. He came promising that he would stand on his

knees in front of Putin and beg Putin to stop.

That's what he was promising.

He was saying that Ukrainian and Russian languages are...

both languages that need to exist, that people speak both languages and, you

know, it makes people stronger, that we need to be friends with Russia.

He was saying all this stuff and that's why people voted for him. They didn't

want war.

Nobody wants war. There is nothing good in war.

And now he totally adopted some nationalist ideology that is not natural

Ukrainians.

And he really plays it well. And what what happened? How did I mean,

most people in the United States were not paying attention. Yeah.

And we sort of look up to the TV and there's Joe Biden's vice president

Harris at the Munich Security Conference in January 2022 with Zelensky saying

you need to join NATO. And he says, great.

That's not the behavior of someone who wants to avoid war.

You know, one thing is that he has been escalating the rhetoric. Another thing,

you know, I was present at his meeting with Vladimir Putin in 2019 in Paris.

There were very few people near him who knew the truth.

He had private conversation with Putin where he promised Putin that Ukraine

never join NATO.

In 2019?

Yes, it was December 2019 and there was a personal conversation.

There were very few people know what he promised.

He said no NATO because...

Ukraine was never close to NATO.

For being a part of NATO, first of all, we need to have a market economy and be

a reformed country.

It's not like Trump doesn't want Ukraine in NATO, or Biden doesn't want Ukraine.

It's not about names.

It's like we're not ready for NATO. There is no consensus to be NATO.

It's imagination.

It's lies.

He stick to this fact of joining NATO, knowing that it's impossible.

He was pushing the impossible agenda and making it a condition for peace.

In October 2024, he presented to the Parliament victory plan, and he said

joining NATO is the most important thing, and long -range missiles for

are the most important thing.

And he made this victory plan.

But it's ridiculous.

It's impossible.

And look how he uses it. He uses impossible things to justify his own

and actually creating his hero image.

For instance, remember after he left Donald Trump, he said, it's not so easy

get rid of me. He said this to the journalists.

If Ukraine is taken to NATO, I'm ready to step down, knowing that Ukraine is

going to be taken to NATO. So it's very easy to promise something under the

condition of impossible things. Yes. Right?

That's what he is doing.

So this is one thing.

What changed? The second thing, if I can... Oh, of course.

One of the most shocking moments for me personally and for communications team

in 2019 -2020 was he was really scared that

his rating started dropping down.

And he was sure that communications team was guilty in that.

He thought it was your fault.

Not mine, but all communications people, but I was, you know, they are the part

of the team.

And he gathered us and he started saying that there are no positive news about

what he is doing in the country.

And my colleague started arguing with the president very diplomatically. But

was saying, look, there are no so many positive things that are happening.

You're promising something, but it doesn't happen.

She was, of course, very diplomatic. She didn't say it like that, but that was

the thought. And he said, it doesn't matter what's happening.

The most important thing, we need 1 ,000 of talking heads.

And if 1 ,000 of talking heads tell positive things, then positive things

happening, that people believe that there are positive things.

And she kept arguing, and she brought a very good example.

She said there was a group of internally displaced people from Donbass, families

who lost homes, and Zelensky promised them apartments.

And we don't speak about thousands or hundreds. There were like 10 apartments

something like this.

And nobody took care about that. So he promised the families were waiting.

Nobody took care about that.

So she said, if there are no those apartments, people will know that there

no apartments. It doesn't matter how many talking heads will say that there

apartments, right?

And he said, no.

If talking heads, thousand people tell you that this is happening, then this is

happening.

So she continued to argue and he became very irritated.

And he put his hands like this, what he was doing. He leaned to the table. He

looked at us, and he said in a very irritated tone,

I need Goebbels propaganda if you want. I need Goebbels propaganda.

I need thousands of talking heads of Goebbels propaganda.

Meaning Joseph Goebbels, the Nazi propagandist. Yes, that was Major

propagandist. And we were like so shocked. We stopped breathing.

But, okay, the thing is that I believe what happened in 2022, he's got his

thousands of talking heads globally, right?

And many of us were not supposed to be his heads. We were standing for

the country. We believed that he would stop the war soon, that we

needed to be united. We believed in that.

And four years later, Ukrainians don't believe in Zelensky's agenda anymore.

still, there are thousands of talking heads.

And many of them just get paid for that, you know.

Who do they get paid by?

Oh, different stuff. For instance, if they are asked to the conferences for

moderation or for writing positive message, it's called positive message

Ukraine.

Some oligarchs can pay or...

You know, it goes from grants or something like this. In Ukraine,

experts get paid from the structures that are close to the government. Those

the biggest patriots or, you know, grants from European Union, for

And, you know, I'm not saying that these people are bad.

No, they are not.

In many ways, they just not are aware what's happening.

They're talking to each other or to some experts or to the government. They

still believe in the legend that Zelensky has some ratings.

And by the way, just a week ago, I was talking to insider from the office of

president. And again, I was working for the office of the president. I know

there are different ratings.

Ratings that are closed just for the eyes of the president and few in the

And ratings that are presented to the public,

right? And the insider from politics who saw the rating said that Zelensky is

non -electable. His ratings are so low.

I was looking at those ratings in 2023 and 2024 every month, and his ratings

were very, very low, getting lower and lower and lower.

And here is another big revelation for you.

When Donald Trump went out and named Zelensky a dictator, and when he was

talking about low ratings of Zelensky, of course, Zelensky said that Donald

Trump is influenced by Russians, and this is all Russian propaganda, and

Trump was called pro -Russian as every critic of Zelensky.

But in fact, Donald Trump got information from a lot of Ukrainians.

These are former government officials and even current government officials.

These are people who close to President Zelensky. They provided evidence,

documents, witnesses, what they knew, everything.

Because when Donald Trump came to power for the second term, so many Ukrainians

hoped and still hope that he will help achieve peace.

I hope so, too.

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What was Zelensky's relationship? I'm so angry now.

It's okay.

You have every reason to be.

You have every reason to be. It's your country.

I can't even imagine, actually.

You can't.

No, I can't. I hope I never have to see anything like that here.

What was Zelensky's relationship like with Joe Biden?

Oh.

So there is a very good American journalist who wrote a book and he

that relationship. But I also met him and he told me in private conversation

that Biden was thinking that Zelensky was emotionally manipulative.

When I was there, he also described in the book that Zelensky thought that

was weak.

When I was there, Zelensky had several interviews to push Biden for some

And I remember that I met one American diplomat. He was pissed off with this

interview. He was shouting at me so, so much. And it was a party.

And I was not the organizer.

Mr. Yermak was an organizer.

And the diplomat knew he's just so pissed off that he couldn't stop

And he shouted that that interview was...

kind of either stupid or unprofessional and it shouldn't be like that.

When I was leaving and I resigned, there are boards who are spreading the rumor

that I was fired because I worked for Russia. This is not true.

We departed on good terms. Zelensky thanked me. He wished me good luck.

They wanted me to continue as an advisor to the office. So we departed in good

terms.

The thing is that

And Zelensky actually was destroying relations with multiple actors in the

including with the United States.

And one of the things was that since 2020 till 2021 for a

year, there was a reform agenda.

And Zelensky literally was destroying every reform. And it was happening like

one by one. And that was disastrous.

What kind of reforms?

What kind of reforms?

So there was an agreement with the IMF in 2020.

Ukraine was often on the verge of default, and we needed money.

And obviously, IMF doesn't provide you money for free. So there was like 10 or

12 positions of the reforms that needed to be done.

really did a miraculous job with two of the most difficult reforms. He pressed

the parliament to vote for them, which actually means that he could go through

this agenda, difficult agenda, and push for the reforms. He just didn't want to.

As soon as two reforms were pushed through, the IMF approved $5 .5 billion.

And I remember I was present at the conversation between Zelensky and

Georgieva. They spoke in Russian because Kristalina Georgieva is Bulgarian. And

they had such trust and understanding, you know. But as soon as the money came

through, and the first tranche was 2 .1 billion, more than they wanted to give

at the beginning, in a few days, Zelensky violated the first reform.

He fired, by political reasons, the head of the National Bank.

And it was a big scandal.

Khrushchev called back and she never spoke in Russian to Zelensky anymore

because she was undermined. She promised to the boat that he was a reliable man,

that he agreed for reforms, that he proved that he could push reforms

And then suddenly, as soon as he gets first money, he fires the head of the

National Bank.

And the head of the National Bank said that he was fired via political

And, you know, that was a scandal.

The landscape explained her this. He said, there will be another independent

head of the National Bank, but he will just be our

head of National Bank. He will be professional and independent, but

he will be coming from us.

He even doesn't understand what he's saying, right? It's hilarious.

Do you understand me? I do, I do. Okay, so then after that, there was...

justice reform.

There was a scandal in the courts.

Then there was another, another, another, like every reform. And the last

that was really blowing up, it was corporate reform.

Actually, the reform that was needed to be destroyed to make corruption.

So, the United States helped Ukraine to establish the corporate reform as in the

United States. There is the board of independent people who look...

how actually the state enterprises are working and looking so that there is no

corruption there.

There is a big Ukrainian oil and gas company, Naftogaz in Ukraine, and

just dismissed the independent boards and put his own people there.

Yeah, this is something that hasn't been public, but we were talking to anti

-corruption activists and there was money laundering at some point from

Naftogaz. So Zelensky just wanted to turn this state oil and gas company in

Russian gas from.

So when there is your own person there and there are dark offices and the money

is laundered from there. And that's when the United States was so pissed off

that they did not prolong.

the sanctions against Nord Stream.

I'm going really deep here. I don't know if your audience is going to

understand everything, but Nord Stream was a pipeline that Russia was

building to bring its own gas to the European Union, and it was sanctioned by

the United States.

And so when Ukraine, when President Zelensky was actually violating all the

reforms that he had agreed with the United States, at some point Biden's

administration was so pissed off that they decided to allow Russia to finish

this Nord Stream pipeline.

Does it make sense?

It does. And then they blew it up in the end anyway.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Is Zelensky himself corrupt?

So there was one minister.

I don't name the people, okay?

He had good connections with the United States, and that's why Zelensky

appreciated him.

And there was this absolutely ridiculous story that, you know, Ukrainian

ministries get very low salaries, like $12 ,000 per year.

Yeah. That's why there is corruption there, right? Yes.

And he said, look, I don't need much, but I will need like $5 ,000 per month,

$60 ,000 per year. Yep.

You know, really didn't want much, but that would guarantee that he did not

corruption.

Zelensky, of course, promised him in his first interview and obviously did not

do anything for that. So the minister just started writing himself premium

bonuses.

And opposition was attacking him like, oh, my God, $5 ,000 per month for the

minister. That was such a scandal. You know, Zelensky obviously didn't like

that.

So when the first government was dismissed, this guy was invited, and

said, look, I like how you work, you have good relations with the West, maybe

you want to continue in the other government.

But you cannot have $5 ,000 of official salary because it causes so much

scandal.

And when the guy entered the room, there was President Zelensky here, Mr. Yermak

here, and another person whom I know here, and there was a bag of dollars on

their table.

And the guy said, I can't give you $5 ,000 of official salary, but I will be

giving you $5 ,000 of money every month.

So you can get your salary, but it's not going to be official, okay?

Which means if Zelensky knows it, it's not corruption.

Of course.

You see?

Do you think Zelensky and his family have gotten rich since the war began?

They have always been rich. He's playing this poor guy in his cheap...

sweater. He is rich, obviously.

Look, I don't know where the money goes, but I was meeting one veteran of

politics who has known Zelensky for dozens of years.

And the first thing he asks me, where is the money?

What?

He's like, I know Zelensky for many years. He has never lifted a finger for

free. He would never do anything for free.

So, you know, I'm not a law enforcement. It's something for the law enforcement

to prove. But I've just told you already two stories, right?

There was another story from another minister who just called us recently.

he said when he was on the position, those very close

people to Zelensky were actually taking percentage from some governmental

programs. I mean, illegal percentage.

Yes. And he told Zelensky that they are taking really too much already, like

really they are insisting on very big amounts.

And Zelensky smiled and said, good job, guys, good job, guys.

And he was not joking. The minister says he was not joking. He was really happy

it was happening.

And then the minister thought, oh, we are not going far with this.

Yeah, he resigned later.

Now in the government, there are very few people who are professionals. They

there, but very few.

Mostly the landscape with the loyalists who will never say no and who create the

agenda that absolutely is out of mind.

He just wants something, like if he is writing his script, you know, of the

servant of the people, and then he just...

Once he demands this and people go and, you know, they just make up some reports

and he goes with this report and says that this is true.

This is how it works, unfortunately. He's a PR guy and PR, only PR.

He's not the guy of substance.

Who does he listen to? Who are his advisors?

Yermak, you said, was the chief of staff for years. I don't know that he still

is, but he's identified in the West as Zelensky's closest.

friend and advisor. Is that true? And who is Yermak?

Mr. Yermak started his career at the strip club long ago. Yeah, like not

stripper, but as a lawyer.

At a strip club?

Yes, that was a strip club where there were a lot of those people who later

would become politicians in the pro -Russian party.

And he was a lawyer there. And I was talking to his first employee of the

Mike, and his first employee said he had so many ambitions and he had no

absolutely talent for those ambitions.

That's just, you know, a quote.

Yeah, so he started like that and he met there a lot of people who would later

join into politics.

At the strip club?

Yeah, it was a very famous strip club.

It was 90s, I think, or early 2000s. Then he was working for a

store of luxury brands that mostly are brought, not officially,

we are smuggling.

And that's where he also met a lot of rich people, oligarchs. And 95th Quartal

is also buying clothes there.

So officially, Mr. Remak says that he was a lawyer at one of the biggest

Ukrainian channels. And that's where he met Zelensky. He used to be a general

producer of that channel. But I'm not sure where they met.

So it's possible that they just met through, you know.

some other entertaining stories.

Yermak also made some movies about smuggling, which is very symbolic for me

since he used to work in that business.

He was involved in some dark affairs of mafia stuff on the level of Kiev city.

And that's how, you know, he knew a lot of politicians and from the point of

view of not politics, but how the things can be done.

he could be helpful to Zelensky.

Their relation was very strange, very different, very difficult, very strange.

Yermak knows that he is personally a narcissist, and he knows that Zelensky

narcissist, and these are two malign and paranoid narcissists. Oh my God, what

I'm saying, but that's true.

Yermak and Zelensky are both malign narcissists.

Jermak and Zelensky are both malignant and very paranoid narcissists who are

both on defensive mode.

They're both paranoid.

Jermak more.

How paranoid?

Oh, Jermak, he just creates the stuff from nowhere.

He's just like, you don't need to do anything while he can come up with

something. I don't know.

It's really some kind of a sick mind to be frank.

It was some kind of a symbiote.

And Zelensky had the vision and Yermak had the tools to implement the vision.

It was not about politics or policies.

It was more about what they wanted for themselves.

It's important to say that sometimes Zelensky didn't know how to make what he

wanted, how to make it work.

So he was just saying the desires and Yermak was finding the way.

And often it was happening that Zelensky then says to do this, but Yermak calls

and say, don't do this because he's all doing this in this way.

And in general, that was so chaotic.

Like no professional could work there. I'm saying that it's... not possible

because they're just like keeping saying different things, keeping changing the

strategies, keeping changing the moods, keeping changing everything all the

time. And they create this feeling that there is so much work and everybody

works, works, works, but nothing is done.

Sounds awful.

It's really strange, but I'm not the one who knows that.

What do you think Zelensky wanted?

What were his goals?

Well, I definitely know that he thought he came forever.

His first chief of staff said it once.

He laughed to the minister and said, we came forever.

So he liked being the dictator?

Well, he is a dictator.

The borders are closed now for four years. It's illegal.

The human rights violation is enormous.

The persecution of the people.

In 2024, when Donald Trump came to power, there was a member of parliament

wrote on Telegram, Zelensky, now we need to stop this war.

And yes, you will lose the next elections, but stop this war.

Like Trump will push you to stop this war.

And he was in jail in three days. He's still in jail.

Really? Yeah. And I talked to security services and they said he never talked

Russia.

Since 2021, no connection, but he is accused in treason.

And there are a lot of people who are, people are persecuted.

Obviously, there are dirty campaigns.

Everyone who criticizes Zelensky is just...

Pro -Russian, Russian, pro -Kremlin.

You're pro -Kremlin. I will be pro -Kremlin after this interview.

You know, I believe that American special services do their job well. And

there were any pro -Kremlin payments or contacts, obviously they would know

that, right?

Yeah, so in general, this is it. But, you know, for me personally,

the situation in the country is inhuman.

I never would think that my country would be the one where people are

the streets and forced to the front lines. I never would think that we all

and stay silent to the fact that Zelensky uses front line as the

He uses the war as a punishment?

Front line, yeah.

He even was open about that. He was saying if somebody does something bad,

need to punish them and send to the front line.

That was his statement.

But there are people who were sent there just because they're critics of

Zelensky. Do you know anyone who's been sent for criticizing Zelensky?

There were people from the security services who were sent publicly, and

were a few people who were sent there.

What's it like, the front line?

There are different front lines. Some people find front line in a cozy place,

just wearing the uniform and playing the role of some bloggers. But I know

people who survived when their units were killed.

It's terrifying.

My mother was treating soldiers who were sent in bad uniforms during winter to

another side.

Their fingers and limbs were cut off because they were frozen.

Every year Ukrainians are collecting money for their uniforms, you know,

necessary stuff. Women are cooking food for the soldiers.

No, I'm not kidding. There are a lot of volunteers. But the West has sent

hundreds of billions of dollars and they don't have gloves or food?

Well, some of them have food. Some of them are looking for more, you know.

And yeah, usually people are collecting even money for weapons or for starlings.

What about all the hundreds of billions from the West? Yeah, you need to track

it. You need to track it. But look, there is a scandal right now in Ukraine

the Minister of Energy was fired and it is now known that he helped money

laundry $112 million.

$112 million.

And those money should have been used for the shield for energy sector.

And it's a huge scandal in Ukraine.

There is proven stuff by the law enforcement. And behind the whole scheme

guy who worked with Russian mafia.

That's amazing.

You should go and look into it. But there is the whole scheme with the

companies, with the names behind.

And the Minister of Energy himself got $12 million for this. So it's around

And 10 % is usually paid for those who help establish the scheme, right?

So where is the 90 %?

That is the question.

I know I've said this before, but I'm amazed that more people from Zelensky's

government haven't come forward to say this in the West, in English.

Why is that?

Because people are afraid.

What are they afraid of? On Netflix, there is a movie, a series, How to

Tyrant.

I didn't know about that unless one governmental official came to me and

watched that series.

It's what's happening in the country.

And it was before the war.

I mean, light -scale war.

Everyone is afraid.

Zelensky has no limits.

That's the problem. I'm sitting here because I know that he is in a weak

today. And I know that there are a lot of people in his government and in his

vertical of power who want peace.

And I didn't want to put shit on him. I'm sitting here because I want peace

And this guy is going to come up with any condition. He's going to change the

positions all the time just to prolong this war and to get more money.

He doesn't want to have political suicide.

Finishing war for him is a political suicide. You see? I do.

So I'm sitting here having this belief that if he is furiously ordering

the people to arrange something against me, maybe in this vertical of power

would be people who will not agree now.

But even two years ago, they would do whatever he wants.

What do you think he would do to you for saying this, if he could?

Look, I'm risking everything. I cannot return to Ukraine after this interview,

okay?

I know people who get threats.

A month ago, there was a banker in Milan who fell out of the window.

In Milan?

Yes. Milan, Italy?

Yes.

And Italy is investigating it.

But there was one guy, a story that nobody paid attention to, who died when

Zelensky was traveling to Mr. Biden in September 2023.

The guy used to be a governor of my region, Kherson region, where I'm

from.

If you think about the governors, they are usually very rich, local, very

successful, strong people who have their people everywhere, have established

processes, have a lot of money.

It's very strange that he died behind garages by making suicide of poisoning

himself.

And I talked to one very deep insider and top position in security service.

the guy told me this is a very strange death because this guy was negotiating

with Russians.

He was getting his orders from Yermak, I know the middleman.

And then he was passing some information to Russians when Russians were

occupying Kherson and then back.

And then when Zelenskyy travels to Biden, this guy makes suicide.

Behind garages.

And security service explains that he had a depression.

He had depression.

He had depression.

A rich guy, strong guy, used to be a governor. He had depression and he

to poison himself.

Behind garages.

I mean, this all just doesn't come together. No, it doesn't. So people who

for Zelensky believe that if they were to criticize him, they could be killed.

Or jailed. Or jailed. I told you just about the member of parliament, but

are also those people who sit there for years, and the courts cannot, the

general prosecution cannot prove the guilt that they're accused in.

It's also treason, you know, collaboration with Russia.

How do you prove that?

Yeah,

and it's for criticism.

It's just, you know, political fight, nothing more.

What are jails like in Ukraine?

Oh, they're awful.

Oh, they're awful.

A lot of people in one place.

Now, by the way, there was the news that diseases are being spread. It's very

cold. The food is terrible.

It's a terrible place to be. It's not like an American jail, no.

It's a terrible place to be.

So Ukrainians can't speak up for fear of being imprisoned or killed?

But why do you think Western media hasn't spoken up?

Here, I would like to say the thing that the freedom of speech in Ukraine is in

bad shape.

But I believe that it improved when Donald Trump came to power for the

term, because there are more and more news coming up. And despite that, some

journalists are also sent to the front lines or attacked.

Still, you know, there are materials that are coming up.

And when this freezing winter was happening, terrible winter, when people

freezing their homes without light, without water, the whole

revolution on Instagram, Ukrainian Instagram started.

And I wanted to tell you two trends, just two of multiple trends that are

happening on Instagram right now that will show you that Ukrainians, of

suffering under Zelensky. They don't support what Zelensky is doing.

One of the trends is they are burning the books with Zelensky's speeches in

their fireplaces or fires, saying, huh, finally we figured out why we needed

those.

The second thing is very politically incorrect, and I'm very sorry. You're in

safe place, don't worry. Okay, I'm very sorry, but...

I try to describe the desperation and the dark humor that Ukrainians use.

A driver is parking on the parking lot for a place for a disabled

person. And another person is coming with a telephone asking, why did you

on the place for a disabled person?

And the driver responds,

I'm going to vote for Zelensky for the second time.

You mean mentally disabled? Yes.

So these are trends.

This is not like one real, two real. These are trends, and they're going

And this is the way how people are trying to shout out, we are desperate.

Please stop this war. Please stop this nonsense.

Please stop this autocracy.

There is no reason why to fight this war. It's senseless.

You see, people lost.

All sense of this war.

Like if this war is for NATO or against NATO expansion, then Ukraine has no

chances to be in NATO.

If Putin conducts this war against Zelensky, then Zelensky is the main

beneficiary of this war. If this war is for returning territories, then we have

been losing territories for three years.

If this war is for democracy, then we have no democracy in the country now.

People in the frontline regions, they tell terrible things.

One person told me, I don't know what we are fighting for. What's the difference

between Ukraine and Russia right now?

There is autocracy there and autocracy here.

There is no anything that would be democratic now. So what's the fight for?

This is not what I'm saying. This is what people from different regions are

saying. And I believe that Zelensky had two chances of finishing this war in

2022.

Two chances.

Now he says that 90 % of Ukrainians will not forgive him giving up the bus.

Where does he come from with these numbers?

Like, there are no such numbers.

Realistically, no such numbers.

And I was talking to people who represented Ukraine at negotiations in

in 2022.

Yes, the famous negotiations, where they came pretty close.

Oh, they were almost done, yeah.

And I was explained in details that they agreed for everything.

And furthermore, which is very important, they said that Zelensky

agreed to give away 10 plus.

And I was shocked.

At that moment, it was a shocking news. And I said, really? Did he?

And the guys told, of course he is. He is okay with that because he will stop

the horror of war.

He agreed for giving away the territory because that would mean the war is over.

And now he is standing in front of millions of audiences telling, I cannot

away Donbass.

You see, he is inconsistent.

He is changing the positions all the time.

The second time when he could and...

the office of the president planned he would finish the war, was the end of

2022. And as I read the New York Times, who actually confirmed my insights, that

the Biden administration decided to go with his plan to continue that war.

That was Mr. Blinken who was advising, you know, if Ukraine wants to fight,

Ukraine needs to fight, despite all the evidence that we could not win that war.

Of course not.

You know, there is this thing also, everything that is said against Zelensky

being pro -Russian.

And now, you know, this Mr. Johnson, Prime Minister Johnson thing. Boris

from the UK. Boris Johnson is a big friend of Zelensky. He's an evil man.

So...

Remember Bucha? Bucha is a small town in Kiev region and it was occupied by

Russia. And there are a lot of terrible things and terrible deaths happened

there. And Zelensky came to Bucha after it was deoccupied on April 4th, 2022.

And I remember him standing in front of the journalists and he had this, you

know, terrible face and terrible, terrible, you know, look.

It felt like he went through pain while seeing all those bodies there.

But he was asked if he was going to continue the negotiations in Russia.

And he said, yes, yes, I am going to continue.

That's fixed on a camera.

He was going to continue.

And then, you know, they had all the agreements by positions about Donbass,

about language, about many, many things. They agreed upon everything.

And then Boris Johnson came.

And now it is said that this is Putin's lies.

But this story was told by Ukrainians. It was not told by Russians.

Ukrainians who were trying to bring peace knew that Boris Johnson influenced

decision.

And Zelensky was promised to have everything.

Weapons, influence, fame, you know. And he will fight Russia and he will be a

great hero. And that's everything that Zelensky wants.

He doesn't care about people.

He cares about staying in power.

He cares about being the great hero in the history.

So I believe there were two moments where he could finish this war. But he

chose the war of attrition.

I don't know how 25 million of Ukrainians who stay in the country can

with attrition with Russia that has the population of 140 million people.

With Russia who, by the way, in four years has not even borrowed for this

And Ukraine has the debt of 100 % of GDP.

With Russia that awaits sanctions, still tries to sell, you know.

And Ukraine has no market economy.

I mean… Russia is so much bigger than Ukraine that Ukraine could never win.

just too big. Russia is too big.

You know, the New York Times wrote a story that was scandalous in 2023.

And the title was, Ukraine will need to choose between people and territories.

And we are indeed choosing.

And our leader is choosing territories. But it's not… I mean, look, I'm not an

expert at all on Eastern Europe. But I have Wikipedia.

I looked up land mass population, industrial capacity. You don't need that

information to know.

This country cannot beat that country in a land war.

It was obvious. I don't understand.

I think it's obvious for Zelensky too, but he thrives on this war. He thrives

this war. Why would he finish it?

Well, because it's destroying his country.

I don't think he...

He thinks about that.

In 2024, I was talking to a very smart guy who knows Russia and knows Ukraine

very well. He used to be an advisor to the president.

He's an American, by the way. And he said to me that Zelensky would finish

war until the end of 2024.

I said, no, he won't. He said, why?

He's losing territories. Russians will go to Dnipropetrovsk and other regions,

or Riga, Odessa, Kharkiv, Sumy, Chernihiv. He names all those regions of

Ukraine. And I'm like, this is not the reason for him to stop.

And the guy could not understand.

Like, he could not. He's like, but why?

You're going to lose the territories. You're going to lose more.

And I'm saying, this is not how he thinks.

He imagines the life, like, his thinking is limited with thinking of what he

sees, of his beautiful golden office, you know.

And the guy was like, okay, they're in Zaporizhzhia. I'm like, not a reason.

They're in Zaporizhzhia, not a reason. They're there, they're there.

And then the guy says, okay, there needs to be somewhere a point where he will

understand that Russians are winning.

Maybe when Russians are with the guns in his office, I'm like, yeah, that's

where he will understand. So it sounds like he doesn't care very much about

Ukraine. He never cared.

He never cared. He never cared about the people. That's the point.

I tried to come up not only with the insights. I think the things that I told

you are quite terrible, but this is who he is.

But let's just check the facts online, okay?

At the Munich conference, Zelensky insisted that ceasefire is the condition

peace, for negotiations and for elections.

He is keeping pushing for ceasefire, again, knowing that Russia is against

ceasefire. It's like the NATO story, right?

If you go online and check his speech for the UN General Assembly September

2024, he was saying that no ceasefire is possible, that it's very irresponsible

to ask Ukraine for a ceasefire, that a ceasefire will lead to a frozen

and he was going against a ceasefire all the time.

Then, second thing.

In June 2024, there was a peace summit where Ukraine presented Zelensky's peace

formula. There were 160 delegations coming from different countries.

And I truly believe that those delegations wanted to discuss peace.

There were discussions about energy security, returning children and

else.

And Switzerland suggested that they invite Russian delegation, maybe even

Vladimir Putin.

And office of the president was very much against it. And office of the

president of Ukraine even organized a media campaign saying that it is

absolutely morally impossible to talk to Russia, to Putin. We need just to

pressure no negotiations with Russia.

You see, at the same time, when he was presenting the formula of peace,

was organizing the Kursk region operation.

And how do actually you offer the world to have peace and at the same time are

planning operation to invade Kursk region?

These are very inconsistent things.

Then after his just formula, where he suggested one thing, he offered victory

plan, where he suggested completely different things.

Then in November 2024,

He said that he would agree for temporary occupation of some territories

another government -controlled territory of Ukraine will be included in NATO.

Then, in several days, he said that he was misinterpreted.

I'm telling you so many examples when he has been changing the conditions,

preconditions to end this war.

Because he doesn't want to end the war.

Because he doesn't want to end this war.

I counted with my insights around seven attempts.

to finish this war, where he used different mediators, he used different

countries. We promised those mediators, he promised those countries, those

leaders, that he would start negotiations, that he would agree for

and he always lied.

But I'm not giving him a pass.

I'm not making excuses for Zelensky.

But Ukraine has got 100 % debt -to -GDP ratio.

limited industrial capacity.

Like it can't fight a war without Western aid, period.

And so it's France, UK, United States that are paying for all this. Why would

the Western countries want to keep the war going? Obviously they do.

This is a very good question.

To be frank, I think that

the approach that Donald Trump's team offered is a very constructive approach.

In any way, Ukraine wouldn't survive without aid. But one thing is to plan

investment, right?

To boost businesses, to provide jobs, to pay taxes, to recover economy, and to

have returnings, right? And another one, just to provide the money for the war.

And I believe...

that the governments gave so much money and some of those governments, they just

cannot back up now.

They cannot say that we gave those money for a dictator because they're afraid

about their ratings and their own situation. Right now, some of the

were saying, Ukrainian members of parliament, that Ukraine was undermining

because of corruption.

Ukrainians are begging, please, just open your eyes. Help us stop this war.

It's not about your ratings. It's about people paying with blood.

Of course, but it sounds like that's not going to be possible as long as

Zelensky is there. The war won't end. I don't believe that he will finish this

war. No, it sounds like it. If there are seven attempts to finish the war and

his only position has been the war needs to continue, he's clearly not the guy

to end the war.

So how do you get Zelensky out?

That's a good question, and I'm not the one to answer it. Well, there are no

elections. But we are in a legal trap here.

And the last time when he was planning elections, he actually didn't want to

leave the martial law and wanted to have one round election so that he can

manufacture them. And this is the article on a very reliable Ukrainian

outlet. The journalist talked to insiders from the office and from the

parliament.

Just another example. Look, there was this Munich security conference and

Zelensky assaulted the prime minister of Hungary, Mr. Orban.

That's so interesting.

I'm saying so many bad things. I feel so bad about that.

But just like if you're a rational person, think about this.

Yes. The leader of Ukraine standing in front of... all the leaders and keeps

assaulting one of the European leaders.

In a week, this European leader will need to vote for a 90 billion loan for

Ukraine.

And obviously, Orban just blocked everything.

And everybody is like pointing fingers to Orban, how bad Orban is, how bad

is. Perhaps he is.

I'm not justifying Orban here.

But if you are a leader of a country, how on earth are you assaulting a person

from whom you will need a support of $90 billion of a loan, without which

Ukraine just cannot go further? So that's a great question. And I watch him

the same thing to Donald Trump.

Absolutely. So what is that? Can I finish this moment?

The thing is that the conflict that has escalated recently is about a pipeline,

oil pipeline.

Hungary was getting Russian oil through Ukraine, and it damaged.

And Zelensky made this, again, performance, huge performance, as if he

brave hero who is fighting against Russian oil, Russian gas, all Russian,

etc. At the same time, Ukraine on technical level is repairing the

The European Commission is insisting that we do it as fast as possible.

And Ukraine is sending the explanation to the European Commission. You know, it

will take some time, but we are offering you another pipeline so that there is

no energy crisis. So the work is there, right?

And Zelensky is just performing some stuff in his head.

And the other important moment in this, do you know that this was France, not

Hungary, who bought the biggest number of Russian energy products last year,

including Russian LNG that is selling to Germany. So why doesn't Zelensky go

against Macron? I don't understand that. Well, it's a great question. I'm aware

of this.

And Donald Trump.

You know, I was watching that thing, that oval office situation.

To me, it was so painful. It is so painful. Every time when I'm posting on

Twitter videos of ruined Ukrainian cities, every time I have this quote

from Zelensky, we've got beautiful cities, come and see.

I'm like, how you can say that this ruins?

are beautiful cities.

The thing is that many people who know Zelensky, they characterize the

that this is what's happening behind the camera usually.

Such hysterical behavior, no control of emotions, this

manipulation, attempts to prove himself. This is Zelensky. This is how he looks

all the time. Is he a drug user?

This is an open secret.

The thing is that I've never seen him taking drugs.

However, for writing my book, I met a lot of people who confirmed that they

him taking drugs in different clubs.

Only one saw him taking drugs in 2021.

I learned who is the supplier from 95th quartile.

And I met that person.

You met Zelensky's drug dealer?

I'm not saying he's a drug dealer. He's a guy from 95th Quartile.

What's 95th Quartile?

95th Quartile.

It's an entertaining company of Zelensky.

95th Quartile, where he comes from.

It's the guy who is an actor.

And he behaved really in a strange way. His eyes and his behavior.

Is Zelensky using cocaine?

Again, I have not seen that. So the thing is that all these people are

about cocaine.

Yes. The second thing is every time when we were preparing to...

the interview you know i was reading the notes explaining who is the journalist

what he needs to say the messaging the questions he does not like reading to be

frank usually he's more you know like tries to listen to you and then

he takes his like 15 minutes in the bathroom and i'm telling you that i was

always surprised

that he was going out a different person. Like really, always a different

person.

So you'd be briefing him.

Then he goes to the bathroom. He spends there 15 minutes and he's going out

energized, full of, you know, action, ready to say everything.

Sniffing.

So I don't want to say something that I didn't see. I understand.

But I met too many people.

I met... doctor I met you know people who spent time with him in the club

and I talked to the people who has been knowing him for like 20 -25 years

And they say he's a cocaine abuser. And also, I don't know if you followed that,

but there was an allegation, accusation that he's a cocaine user during his

electoral campaign. And that's why he invited his opponent, President

Poroshenko, at that moment to take analysis on drugs.

And he went to the clinics of his friends.

And when the analysis was presented, it happened that the analysis was dated by

different date when he gave those analysis.

That was a big scandal.

I mean, this is everywhere. The allegation is everywhere.

There are many people. For a long time.

For a long time, yeah.

And, you know, there is this very strange behavior, obviously.

You know, there are a lot of things that point out to it. But I personally have

not seen that.

But you spoke to his cocaine supplier from 95th quartile.

Not for the book. I met him in the office of the president.

I didn't know about cocaine back then, but I was very surprised at his

His eyes were sparkling, and he was so happy and

slow.

And he was trying to make some jokes that I didn't understand. I was like,

is a strange guy.

And I didn't know what he was doing there because he didn't have any

He just came to the office of the president.

What's Slensky's wife like?

You know, many people who know her respect her.

Many people...

We're saying that she was the only human who stayed nearby him.

She really didn't want him to go for the second term. She even said this

publicly.

But I believe she changed.

And I don't know if she still has that positive influence on him that she used

to have, but Zelensky never thought that women are equally important.

He is the one who respects his woman, but not as if she is really equal,

if it makes sense. It does.

Once I was in this very weird situation. I was in many weird situations with

Zelensky. It's just a norm.

But there was this situation where there was his friend from 95th Quartal and

Zelensky. There were three of us.

I don't know for which reason this guy started telling a very funny to his mind

situation that Olena Zelenska was running after Zelensky for eight years

him marry her.

And he was a strong guy. He didn't want to marry. Ha, ha, ha. It was so funny.

Well, definitely Zelensky was smiling a lot and he liked the story. I still

don't understand what was funny about that.

I think Zelenska is a smart person, but she does not care and doesn't know

anything about politics. And she doesn't want to be involved.

She tried to stay human.

I'm not sure what worked out.

When did you leave the country?

Ukraine. I would prefer not to talk about that. I stayed in the country in

We were shelled. By the way, when Russians were leaving Bucha, we were

It's just pure luck that he didn't hit the house we were.

My husband went to the front lines.

We stayed in 2023, majority of 2024,

beginning of 2025.

And I had so multiple sources that were saying that Zelensky is not going to

finish this war.

People are going crazy there. I was going crazy.

You're like in the closed cage.

You're being shelled and bombed. You can die any moment from Russian drone or

Russian missile.

At the same time, you can't do anything.

There are no economic opportunities.

There is no freedom of speech.

Anything you do can be treated in a different way. The country is full of

Everything is banned.

There are strange rules.

There is this very strange rule that all the cars need to

stop at 9 a .m. on the roads to listen to the hymn.

It's just, yeah, like if you drive and then there is 9 a .m. and there is

Ukrainian hymn, you need to stop for it.

There are really strange agenda and it looks like surreal.

The country, I don't recognize Ukraine anymore. Everything is banned?

What does that mean?

Like, he uses banned, like, there is this culture that he developed.

The culture of banning, cancelling people, artists, you know.

Churches. Poets, churches,

writers, you know, like.

Anything he can connect to Russia somehow.

Sometimes it doesn't have any connection to Russia.

It always makes us weaker.

Sometimes these are Ukrainians from the past. But yeah, they used to live under

like Russian Empire or the USSR.

There is this whole culture of cancellation.

He cancels bloggers, journalists.

Not personally.

But he has this tendency. He has this order.

Like for instance in... Late 2023, I learned from the security service that

Zelensky collected his guys and told them that they needed to go against

critical bloggers.

At the beginning of 2024, there were like purges of bloggers.

Bloggers were called to the security service, having conversations, why they

that, why they said that, that they will be accused of being pro -Russian. There

was a bunch of bloggers that went against the war, and they said, we don't

the borders of 1991, we want to stop this war. And all of them were called

security service.

One guy needed to leave the country, he was threatened.

You know, every story can become a bigger story, can become a story with

security service.

You see, it can become a story of treason. By the way, the cases of

multiple times in four years. Multiple times.

Treason is just another punishment. You see?

He sounds like a Bolshevik.

In many ways, it feels like it's the USSR that we read about.

In many ways, it is.

So, just to restate the question, is there any way to get rid of Zelensky?

That's a good thing.

You know, the problem, how to do this in a legal way,

and who is going to be next, who's going to fight with

Zelensky on the electoral field, and how to restore the electoral field in

general.

You see?

Yeah. And there are so many questions there that are not being solved at all,

and I'm not sure he wants to solve them.

So one big question to all the Ukrainians and Westerners who have

have the power, who are strong enough, is actually how to make it in the legal

field, how to finish this.

And that's the answer to your question, why are Ukrainians silent?

Rich people are afraid of being sanctioned. By the way, it's also a

instrument that Zelensky uses. He sanctions his own citizens, and it's

absolutely anti -constitutional.

How can you sanction your own citizens?

Yes, he uses, he sanctions his own citizens. That's pretty public on his

website.

For, I don't know, he comes up with the reasons.

Working for Russia or whatever.

And what happens when you're sanctioned?

And your businesses can be closed, your accounts frozen.

The former president is sanctioned. So he says he cannot use his money anymore.

So just to go back to something you said earlier that I should have followed up

on.

When you were working for Zelensky, he told Putin, I think you said it was

2019, that Ukraine would not join NATO.

Then you fast forward a couple of years, three years, and he's telling the world

that Ukraine does plan to join NATO, which you said is impossible.

But what do you think changed his mind? What changed?

Well, I definitely know that he wanted to influence the American

He really did want.

influence the American administration in what way? Yeah, I mean, he wanted to

get something.

He wanted to get some support, friendship, you know, to get something.

I remember the interview.

I remember whom that interview was given when he first said, why are we not in

NATO? So it was a TV interview and I was preparing messages.

It has never been in messages.

We never discussed that actually.

It was not at the table at all.

And he was sitting there and the journalist asked him, so what would you

ask Biden about?

And he said, why are not we in NATO?

And I started like looking at the messages and do you know that NATO

just came up with that.

And Zelensky is the kind of person, if you applaud, he's going to continue.

And there were lots of nationalists who applauded.

He thought, oh, that's great stuff. God, do it.

And so he saw the applause. He saw the reaction.

And since his ratings were dropping down, you know, and there was positive

feedback, he just started pushing through this agenda.

You know, again, I read the book about Biden and there was the description of

the meeting in 2021.

That was after I left a few months.

And it happened that Zelensky insisted on this NATO issue from Biden, thinking

that that was only Biden who was the obstacle to this. And if Biden said that

they will be NATO, he didn't want to listen to any arguments, any facts,

nothing. And then when Biden said, look, there is no consensus for that, the guy

said. But NATO is an outdated organization and it's going to fall

Germany and France are going to leave NATO now.

And as the journalist explains, even those who really liked

Zelensky, they were blown up by this. They thought he went too far. But this

you know, this is who is Zelensky. He's always escalating. He's always

demanding. He's always proving himself.

You know, I was talking to one guy who used to work under two or three

presidents, and he said to me that he's telling everyone that these two guys,

Zelensky and Yermak, they are just six -year -olds. He meant because they were

six years in power. Now they are seven -year -olds.

And I myself was thinking that they behave more as teenagers, but we never

arguments that they behave as adults.

You see?

So I believe that Zelensky...

If that journalist who wasn't inside at the White House says that Zelensky

thought Biden was weak, I believe Zelensky thought Biden is weak and he

pressure and get the NATO thing.

Because Zelensky actually doesn't have much understanding of how things are

working in his own government and globally.

Why are there so many Americans always in Ukraine? Always Americans in Ukraine.

Officials are always talking about Ukraine. No offense to Ukraine, but it's

very small country. It's a very big world.

But the U .S. government was very focused on Ukraine for a long time.

There were always journalists in and out of there, think tank people in and out

of there, U .S. military.

What was that?

Well, I think we are lucky that there are journalists there.

But it's a small country, you say, but it's comparatively big.

Well, it's a large landmass for sure, but so is Kazakhstan.

Oh, yeah. But in Europe, it's like the second biggest country in Europe.

Well, if you don't count Russia, it's the biggest.

And so I've never understood. You should ask Americans why they're there. Well,

I've never understood it. I mean, I think money laundering was part of it

sure. I think Americans, I mean, the former president's son was on the board

a Ukrainian energy company. Did you know that?

You know that I was also that very famous article about Hunter Biden. And

that, Biden's administration didn't give interview to The New York Times. And I

think that was a very infant behavior from the communications people. I was

a freelancer in Ukraine for six years after that.

the biggest Democratic president doesn't provide the interview to the biggest

Democratic media because of some freelancer, you know, having evidence

know, some connected topics. That's really ridiculous. I remember that

That was with Ken Vogel, I think. And Eula Mendel. Yep.

Who's you?

So for whatever it's worth, for those who don't remember the piece, can you

summarize it? Tell us what it was about, what it said.

It was long ago, but yeah, Hunter Biden was invited to be on board of energy

company that was owned by a big oligarch who is accused in money

laundering and, you know, big, big guy, really mafia guy. And there

was a general prosecutor who.

opened 11 criminal proceedings against this company, and Hunter Biden figured

somewhere that he was somewhere there.

But I was talking to a general prosecutor, and he told me that he

cases, but he could not prosecute Hunter Biden because Hunter Biden is an

American. And as Ukraine, we just cannot do that.

But that was the whole story about, you know, that Hunter Biden was on the

board.

And obviously it was not liked by the Biden administration very much.

And there was a huge scandal.

And I did just my job, you know. I talked to the general prosecutor. I went

different people. I asked the questions. I read and translated the law.

You know, I verified the information. I mean, Ken was doing a major job. I was

helping him.

And the New York Times stands for that piece.

So why should I be, you know, feeling bad about that? Well, I don't think you

should be at all. Yeah. What was your reaction from the Zelensky government to

you when that piece came out? Oh, first of all, that was a transition moment.

Yeah, I bet.

I'm sure it was.

He never actually reacted much.

It served more like a concern for him. He didn't understand much what was

happening. He just asked what was the buzz about. His people asked me. I said,

well, there was this piece, you know. I checked it. The New York Times stands

for that.

That's it.

So they had just the concern what was happening.

But it was 2019 before Biden came to power.

To be frank, yeah, I know that for Americans it's a big story about

For me as a Ukrainian, I still cannot understand what would have happened that

Biden administration would allow Zelensky to continue this war. I agree.

It's just like it's very hard to talk because you don't understand what's

happening really.

When people are being hunted by drones.

When people wake up to death and destruction, when they're being

they're being searched by law enforcement of their own country, when

have heat or light or water, when they have no almost money and they have no

help and they're not heard and they cannot leave the country, it's such a

And this has been happening for four years of a large scale and for many for

years.

And the only solution that is being presented today is just to say that

a monster.

Well, maybe he is.

His army is doing terrible things.

But here is the point.

Keeping just offending Putin will reach nothing.

And my point is we need to do something as the country. We need to do something

to start taking the decisions.

We need to start putting people first.

And what I see from Zelensky is just, yes, I'm taking care about the people.

Yes, people are first. And then always there is bots.

And after these bots, there is the whole bunch of misleading information.

I don't believe that President Zelensky is really very constructive, let's say

so.

I believe he has some kind of mental challenges.

And so when I'm thinking about his meeting with Biden, who has been proved

Alex Thompson and Jake Topper had really already mental problems, I'm thinking,

where did this world come to that there is one person leader with mental

challenges and another person with mental challenges?

actually deciding on the fate of the 40 million nation or 37 million nation. You

see?

I just don't believe that Ukraine is just being destroyed.

I believe that Ukraine is in the world of extinction.

We have huge brain drain and almost problems with the demography.

Do you know that that was the Ukrainian who actually...

made the program to send the first person to space, Yuri Gagarin.

Now children in Kharkiv region in the fourth grade cannot read.

You see, my nation is being deteriorating. Yes.

So there is no but in this case. People either go first, or they go first and

then but, but, but, but, but, a lot of conditions, why not to stop this all?

And you ask me why all this?

think tankers and journalists come to ukraine i think they come to every

and they were interested in the relations with russia but unfortunately

this i think

Absolutely destructive contribution to very unhealthy nationalism that has

become a shield for the beneficiary group in the country.

Of course.

That happens every time. I just know a lot of the policymakers in the United

States who promoted this war.

And I think that some of them wanted to destroy Ukraine.

I think that I'm sorry. It's very inhuman. The propaganda that we hear,

very inhuman. It's very cynical.

I mentioned to you this stuff about Russia is collapsing.

This is like already a Twitter joke.

Russia is collapsing for the fourth year in a row.

Mark Rutter said a few weeks ago that Russia is in super bad shape. You need

like three, four months of war more to win.

Where does he come from that?

Tell this to a Ukrainian who is dying.

Tell this to the mother who buried her son or a child. Tell this to a father

lost three children and wife under shelling. It's impossible to explain to

people how politicians come up with the conditions to justify this absolutely

unjustified war.

Because it's not their country and they don't care.

It's evil. I couldn't agree more. Many Ukrainians believe this already.

Many Ukrainians. And again, I'm not justifying Putin here. I agree.

It's just like repeating that he is a monster doesn't help the situation. No,

agree. It's like telling us that Iran's going to get a nuclear weapon in three

weeks.

Telling us that for 25 years at a certain point. I don't believe you.

So you have asked to end with a message to the Russians to...

Vladimir Putin, Russian president in Russian.

And of course, I can't understand Russian.

But you've done, I think, us, the United States, a great service by this

interview. And so I would be happy to turn it over to you to speak directly in

Russian to the Russian president.

Thank you. Of course. It's actually quite a moving moment.

Shall I look there?

Look there.

Vladimir Vladimirovich, I don't have your life experience.

I don't understand how you see this world.

But I'm not a representative of NATO, I'm not a representative of the West.

I don't work for Zelensky, I'm not your political opponent.

I'm not a threat to you at all.

I'm a Ukrainian woman from the Ukrainian provincial city of Kherson.

You say that you are a man of God.

But what is happening in Ukraine has nothing to do with

God, has nothing to do with humanity.

You say that you want peace.

This is the only thing that can be done right today.

The world is the only possible thing that will make Ukraine and Russia

There is no winner in this war.

Both countries lose to the Slavs and kill the Slavs.

I am from Kherson.

I think that your army tells you only noble things.

Only about victories.

But in Kherson, there is a drone safari for people.

And maybe you think that this is Western propaganda.

But there is a national truth.

My mother's nurse worked in the hospital. She went home.

She was talking on the phone, and the Russian drone hurt her and damaged the

phone.

She was bleeding just near the road.

This year, another nurse came home to the village where I grew up in the

region.

She came from the birthday of her grandson, got out of the car, and the

drone killed her.

Recently, we saw a video of evacuating old people.

God, how they fell into the snow, shocked by this explosion in the blood

old people.

In Kherson, in the front -line territories of Ukraine, there are old

the most helpless people who have no money to leave.

Your army will post a video of how it hunts people with drones.

But there must be some limits to humanity.

One of your orders can stop it.

You say that you want peace.

But if you stop it, you will not get anything for it.

Even no one will thank you.

But people will know.

When the world comes, I hope, I pray every day that the world will come. When

comes, we will have to restore the human face to everyone.

And why don't you start doing it now?

Are you going to the circus?

Are you praying?

But when will it be necessary to explain to God why your army is hunting for the

weak, for the old, for the poor people?

Is it a war with NATO?

Is it a war with the West?

What is it? How to explain it?

If you really want peace, one word of yours, one word of yours...

And this drone safari will stop.

And let no one say thank you to you.

But people will know.

The world is the only, only possible solution

today for the strong.

I don't know if you can hear me.

But it needs to be stopped.

I don't know if you will hear me.

It's, you know, I'm actually grateful that I didn't cry so much. I usually cry

so much when I'm talking about the war.

Well, I appreciate everything you've done, and I hope this is widely seen.

Well, thank you very much for giving me the platform and for allowing to have

this frank conversation.

I feel like I took a lot from myself and that my silence could be a contribution

to this war, but now I feel like I did something real and good. Thank you.

I think you did. Thanks very much.