Original subtitles

good evening ladies and gentlemen a very

warm welcome to Ronnie Scots for those

of you who' just arrived just before we

get going a couple of necessary yet ever

so boring announcements please we do ask

no photography whatsoever try and keep

your clothes on turn your mobiles off

because you're about to enjoy some of

the world's greatest musicians

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[Applause]

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there's just so much history here in

Ronny Scots you can feel the spirit of

the greats who've come in and out it's

just one of London's absolute

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Essentials for me Ronnie Scots is one of

the great jazz clubs um you always feel

like you're at home it's rare to find a

club that's been around for even a

fraction of the time that rise has been

and has had so many great musicians play

there over the

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years I like watching people when they

walk in you can tell whether they've

been here for the first time or not and

I think the room and everything we do

lives up to their expectations

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I

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to run Ronnie Scott you really have to

understand the Legacy why it was started

what the ethos was of the founders of

the club it is a National Institution it

is a

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responsibility so many people go to that

club but they don't know anything about

Rony Scott or or who he

was I mean running a jazz club at the

best of time is always that kind of

knife edged business you make it one

week and then the next week you don't

and use the money to pay pay whoever you

owe um and only really an idiot would go

into into the Jazz Club business let's

face

it the club I think was onun his life

you know from the day that he opened it

he had this plan and I think yeah he

devoted his life to

it everybody followed him I mean he was

regarded really even if it was written

down he was the leader he wasn't going

out to be a leader he was just what he

was was always gracious inviting and

free to share his ideas with everybody

it was interesting interesting to be a

part of

it I will remember him as an absolutely

crucial Catalyst to the British Jazz

scene who never ever thought he was the

personal qualities of Ronnie that I was

always struck by were his frankness and

honesty his deep love of Music a person

of great Creative Energy I think he

tried to do it from this sort of Bunker

of Ronnie Scott's Club this private

World from which we all gradually

learned what an important music jazz

was people wanted to like him people

wanted to meet him wanted to bask in his

shadow but he he wasn't that kind of man

at all there was a great sort of um

Darkness he was not easy to

know somebody who described him as a

very interesting bunch of

guys he was something to me a different

person with these various women

he was at his best when holding Court in

the office at the

club each individual that you speak with

will be totally convinced that that was

the whole Ronnie that they really knew

Ronnie thoroughly and I don't think

anybody really really knew the whole man

it's not until you gather all the pieces

together and put it all together that

that you get the full picture of him

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I come from a very poor family in the

East End of London we really were

desperately poor had to buy all our

clothes at a war surplus store and let

me tell you it was no fun for a

9-year-old Jewish kid to have to go to

school in the East End wearing a

Japanese Admiral's uniform

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Ron you're a Londoner aren't you yes yes

e London East London Coty well within

the sound of boell yes musical family

well my father was a saxophone

player he and my mother separated when I

was very young I think I was about four

at the time and they were divorced

shortly afterwards I knew was a

saxophone player that's all I

knew when the dance bands were on the

radio I used to listen and I used to

think perhaps my old man is playing in

that band I think possibly I graduated

to the saxophone perhaps because of that

and decided I would like to play in a

band in those days the epitome as far as

I was concerned was playing in a dance

band

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[Music]

these are not Hollywood sound

effects this is the music they play

every night in London the Symphony of

War

when I was about 12 the ambition was to

be a rear gunner in the RAF and I joined

the local air training course Squad was

kind of an RAF Boy

Scouts I remember there was a young kid

in air training Corp troop who used to

play the piano like Conor Charlie [ __ ]

and I thought he was fantastic

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I didn't know what I wanted to play

really I thought I tried this corn which

I bought for five B from a junk shop

that I passed on my way to

school it was held together I remember

with black masking

tape then uh I got a soprano saxophone

and it was a very very early model I

remember and I found extraordinary

difficult to play I still do

I think I've eventually played at a

little T and my mother was terrible but

you know my son the musician was

Dreadful noise from the soprano my

mother and stepfather saw that I was

keen on it and decided to buy me a

proper

saxophone I was in love with it from the

beginning you know I remember when I

used to uh travel on tube trains with it

I used to sit and open it and look at it

it was so so

beautiful I used to go to this club in

East End Alum and we used to have what

we fondly thought of were Jam sessions

in the in the basement I would love to

hear a tape recording of that noise we

made it was great

fun I graduated from the East end to the

West End when I was 16 or 17 there were

places called bottle parties which were

kind of sleazy nightclubs and we used to

go around and sit in with these bands

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I worked from there with a few bands on

the road and then I went with Ted Heath

band when I was 18 which was the big

break I suppose it was the band of the

day

it was a very nice era to come up in I

always at the feeling that the musicians

of my generation had the best time it

was all new it was all exciting there

was a great deal of camaraderie around

it was just great

fun I knew of Ronnie of course uh by

coming to listen to him live and Ronnie

was

[Music]

superb when did you form your own person

band that was around

19 54

55 I'd been working with Jack parnell's

band and then there was a kind of a bust

up and several of the guys left we just

had the idea of forming this Cooperative

band so we did

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it the people in that group including P

King the manager became very friendly

and we became a sort of Hardcore of

friends I

suppose Pete and I were uh musicians

together he was a saxophone player and

we've been together ever since seems

like yesterday and you know what allow

you day

yesterday Pete of course was interested

in management he loved deals and he

loved negotiations and he loved finding

out how far he could go and getting the

deal to his Advantage Ronnie and Pete

were incredibly loyal to musicians they

admire

I had a phone call one afternoon it was

Pete King and he said we want a vocalist

we would be touring about 5 days a week

and at that time it was fantastic money

it was5 a gig and fell on the floor when

he said that he he said how's that sound

I said yeah sounds sounds good but their

agent said if you want to go on the road

and play dance halls it will have to be

commercial

Jazz oh no didn't stand a

chance because it was damned in the eyes

of the musical establishment we were

unemployable that's right I mean this is

why we had to form our own

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scene the landscape of jazz in the

mid-50s was extremely

diverse bbop at that time was a new

development started in America in 1939

or 1940

which was a reaction against the

commercialization of swing a lot of the

younger musicians particularly the the

most proficient and skillful Ones

playing in those swing bands were just

getting bored with

it we'd recognized a language a musical

language that was for our time that was

our time when I first heard ronning

ronning was always playing that

way you know we could never understand

why a young man as we all were in those

days wanted to play a music of 20 or 30

years ago and not want to play what was

the music we thought of as of the

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time there were a lot of American

servicemen of course around at that time

and one of the musicians that was around

was Art Peppa who was a military

policeman of all things the most

unlikely military Poli policeman you can

imagine I remember going up to him and

saying that's the best saxophone playing

I've ever heard and he said well if you

like that wait till you hear Charlie

Parker

[Music]

when our saxophone players first heard

Parker well we thought was Jesus

Christ it was absolutely phenomenal

everybody that played the saxophone was

bowled over literally bowd

over Welcome to the Club Le it's almost

like a youth movement because these were

young musicians who adopted what they

call Modern Jazz at the time and it was

a new language that Charlie Parker disal

espie and alonia smun were introducing

to the music it was less stayed than the

big bands that have been playing

primarily dance music so there music

that you uh Listen to More Than dance

to it was basically down to everybody

that was interested in trying to find a

way harmonically and rhythmically of

studying bball so one of the things that

we did do was sign on to what we used to

call geraldo's Navy

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that was a way to get your ass to New

York because you play in the in the

dance band on the boat and then you get

a few days of shore before you came back

and there you could visit all the Jazz

Clips in

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manham for a young English jazz music to

go to New York in those days it was like

being transported to

Dreamland I went to the jazz clubs there

and heard some of these guys in person

and it just knocked me

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out the first time I came to America

we got in this cab and the driver kind

of turned around they used guys from

London and it was in this Brooklyn

accent Tony and my friend and I looked

at each other and we just grinned it was

like being in in the

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movies the first street sign we saw was

52nd Street which even then to us was a

hallowed name 52nd Street where where

all jazz clubs were playing old Jazz new

Jazz everything in

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between to walk in to this little place

and hear this band with this American

sound that we'd never really heard in

person before was

amazing so we had a beer in the three

Deuces made it last as long as possible

until the bartender began to get uh a

bit insistent and then we go next door

to the down bit here diz's band and

that's way went on all through the night

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I never go back to Georgia cuz I like

London

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a

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he

now Ronnie you were one of the best

tennis ax players in the country you

were winning all the pears you were

doing all right why did you decide to

open a jazz club I much prefer clubs to

concerts as far as playing is concern I

think a lot of musicians feel the same

way having had this experience in New

York of places like the three Deuces and

the downbeat and the Hickory House and

places like that they really seem to me

the ideal kind of setting for jazz music

to be played

in I'd never seen anything like it was a

fantastic atmosphere and the music was

marvelous and I think this had a kind of

lasting impression on me when I came

back there was always the idea of

opening one day a place similar to that

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he had told me that coming back from New

York to London he had plenty of time on

the boat to dream up how he wanted his

Club to be he pictured it

completely we used to get in the coach

at whatever time with a cushion and

duffel coats freezing you know and we

used to sit and talk and say well

wouldn't it be nice if we could open up

a club the deed was sown

really I used to overhear them talking

about it he said I can provide the music

of what I want and I can play in the

club but I'm not a

businessman Pete King was the

businessman and they had this dream of

having a

club Pete was basically the rock around

which the club was built and Ronnie was

the Stardust

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the lights Blaze and dance a city with

her makeup on and in the alleys where

the lamps are low the clubs and the Easy

Money joints the fashionable night spots

as proud of their respectability as a

girl of her first mink the allight cafes

and the nud shows so

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well he was such a a Bohemian colorful

sort of those marvelous characters it

was very Cosmopolitan and and there were

a lot of artists and musicians who used

to meet in so and various pubs and clubs

and there were the ladies of the night

and there were marvelous restaurants to

eat in there were the gangsters of

course the people like uh Billy Hill and

jack spot if there was any violence it

was amongst themselves they never

touched members of the general public

and in fact musicians in particular they

left alone entir were very friendly

towards the musicians and it was just a

great place to

[Music]

be so I said just now that I wouldn't do

it again but I apologize if you paid

more I've got to clear stocks and let's

be quite truthful people we haven't come

down here for the bloody benefit of our

elves there were all kind kinds of

eccentric people wanding

about you'd hear all these stories about

someone called iron foot Jack you know

that would be people who would hang out

in SoHo but with no visible means of

support somehow they all seem to get

along together joined by being Outsiders

of various

kinds and this time you'll be a cever

birdie and go around on the wheel one 2

three four up and down and I made it go

round one little bird in the

up and down and a he go around with his

bum in the air Jaz has always been

considered slightly naughty anyway so it

fitted nicely into

Soho you have to remember in those days

the situation of jazz musicians was a

powerless one you could play jazz but

you had to work for people that they

called themselves jazz club Proprietors

what they really were were Petty felons

most of them and they would hire a ROM

and hire some musici and give them at

least St Siege and then pocket the

proceeds there were nothing could do

with music these people if they were

going to sell music because it made

money that's all so when Ronnie finally

formed a club it was a revolutionary

thing to do because there had never been

a club when you went to work you were

working for one of the fellas they'

never been there ever

these premises became available in

Gerard street they were a taxi driver's

kind of all night Cafe at the time so we

took them

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over we spoke to the the landlord about

it and we went ahead with decorating it

my father-in-law came down from

Manchester to do the

carpentry I remember we went down to the

East End and bought 60 or 70 secondhand

chairs and we hired a piano and some PA

equipment and off we

[Music]

went the basement in Jersey was 2 and6

to come in and on Saturday nights what

we call the all nighter which I think

was five b come in we stayed open till

till uh nobody

left they have pictures of jazz

musicians on the wall and the chairs

were in rows neat rows and they all

faced the stage none of the chairs

matched and I honestly think he must

have got them as a job block from the

Salvation Army but somehow it you felt

that you were in the genuine In Crowd of

the musical Jazz circle of London you'd

arrived in a club that was designed for

jazz

musicians we'd occasionally go down

Gerard Street in the middle of the night

and walk down the little raw iron STC

and tap on the little wooden window

which they'd slide open and it was

either Ronnie or Peete himself and said

like any chance of popping in for a

minute to have a listen and usually the

answer would be no [ __ ]

off it was a nice little room I mean I

would have been quite happy to stay

there for the rest of my life we just

paid the rent and paid the guys and that

was

it the other promoters were very angry

when he opened the club they didn't like

it they didn't like the idea of a

musician becoming a proprietor because

they reckon it was uh trespassing on

their hallow ground but there was

nothing they could do about it and after

a while they learn to live with it what

none of us including Ronnie imagin was

that he'd long outlived them

the difficulty was Financial because the

kind of music they wanted to play

wouldn't pull a big enough audience but

I think what they hoped that in the long

run they could do was that all their

great Heroes and Jazz could all come

together in this one

[Applause]

[Music]

place what you do it's the way that you

do do it what you do the way you do it

what you do way you do it that's what

gets results take what you do it's the

place you do it what you do it's the

place you do it what you do it's place

you do it what gets results you can try

hard don't mean to

sing take it EAS Breezy then you bound

to swing T what you do with the wi that

you do it then what you do it's the

place that you do it what you do it's

the time that you do it that's what gets

the

result

get it was very difficult to make end

meet local musicians are taken for

granted if we were going to stay open

we'd have to import foreign musicians

Americans in

particular we tried to run the place on

English music and it just didn't didn't

work it just didn't

work you know this is the one thing

really that that that that I find a

little discouraging is there are so many

good jazz musicians that one would like

to present and one knows that are good

players but just don't mean anything

economically because they're not uh they

haven't had the publicity or they

haven't been built up into the legend

that that some players have you know

they weren't making the money that they

had to as a business to make it work and

and they felt well they needed somebody

of international status and in those

days the only salable Jazz musicians and

their Heroes of course were American

Jazz musicians and that's when we have

suit Sims coming here in 962

[Music]

there was this long-standing feud

between the American and English Union

the English Union wouldn't have

Americans working here in case it took

work away English musicians and

blackship in

America we somehow got the fair together

for me to go to New York and negotiate

with the Petrillo organization which was

the American Federation of mus

Ians but being an East End boy I think

they've kind of accepted

me and they listened and eventually they

turn around and said well if the British

U are game for it then we

are that's very unheralded what they did

there the two of them fixing up those

exchanges of musicians which opened the

door to American musicians being able to

come and play here more generally I

think that's such a huge contri

contribution to British

music there was this Rock and Roll

Explosion and then there were so many

rock and roll bands English rock and

roll bands going to America there was a

backlog of American musicians due to

us you know I mean the sex dists would

go to America and we'd get Sunny rollet

you know like the the bargain of the

century

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I love my time in London when I played

there at Ronnie

Scots the club was a very special place

the music uh it gets into the room the

atmosphere you know it was magical

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oh a

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word of mouth was the forest fire and it

got out so

fast the place just filled it would be

packed in there like a can of

sardines it was the music that that

fascinated me and the chance to sort of

see some of the greates I'd only heard

on

radio the musicians were mostly Stone

out the time and so was our the audience

I think so there's a kind of a a link

between us and

[Music]

them the one gig I really wish I'd have

gone to was Ren Kirk and Ronnie Scotts I

can't imagine how BR that would have

been blind Roland Kirk with his Penny

Whistle and his saxophones and playing

all this stuff at the same time that

would have been

remarkable 1 2 1 2 3 4

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[Applause]

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it

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it was really a place for enthusiasts

and it was very small the musicians

coming into to play had to come down the

spiral staircase and go through the

crowd to get to the Band Stand which was

at the other end I remember somebody

telling me they heard Dexter Gordon

playing there they were actually a foot

away and the guy said he became

fascinated by watching The Sweat

dropping off Dexter Gordon's head and

bouncing off his polished

[Music]

shoe one of the STS was the joint the

goal I'd see Max Jones from Melody Maker

meet me at the airport and we go to

Ronnie Scots that's where I want to

go it was great the atmosphere was

wonderful the only thing is it wasn't

big enough and so that's when they found

the new place

[Music]

one of Ronnie's dreams was to bring in

the big band which of course was utterly

impossible in Gerard street so the

decision was made yes he definitely had

to move no two straws about

[Music]

it from that basement back room in Geral

Street to three these stories in fth

Street this was a big investment this

was taking a big chance wasn't it yeah

not for us so much because we didn't

have any Capital anyway we borrowed the

money which we're still paying back and

which will probably be paying back

[Music]

forever this was a bigger venue and it

also I suppose was closer to the idea of

an American Jazz Club New York jazz club

that Ronnie had had in his mind for so

long even though they used to joke about

the standard of their own kitchen you

could get supper and it was a really

nice place to

be with frit Street the promises in frit

street that we had was everybody was

after it but there was a gangster by the

name of Italian Albert dimes and Italian

Albert made sure that we got

it he made sure he made

sure well Albert dimes was who was the

kind of Godfather at that time

and when we opened here he bought us a

magnum of champagne in

1965 he bought us a magnum of champagne

over there and uh he said when you're

out of debt open the bottle you know

it's still unopen you

know he used to come in the club after

that and he would always pay to come in

always pay for his food and Ronnie would

occasionally send him a bottle of wine

which he would accept he didn't want

anything he liked us but help me if he

didn't like you I was in there one

Monday afternoon with Pete and Ronnie

and we were discussing business which by

then wasn't too bad and a couple of I

can only describe them as herberts came

in and said they wanted to sell us

protection and for £200 a week they'd

make sure we never got any kind of

trouble at all and Ronnie said that's a

good price but I would have to take it

up with our other partner Italian Albert

well those guys turned around and they

were out of the door so fast you

couldn't say their asses for dust

[Music]

wonderful times Christ you know you

think of the big bands that worked here

bisy worked here with a big band Buddy

Rich on many

occasions bu is is fantastic I mean

quite incredible it's wonderful to watch

the faces of drummers when they come to

listen to Buddy at the club you they

just don't believe it

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w

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the musicians knew that whenever they

walked into that club that they were

taken care of people were excited to

perform because they knew the red carpet

was rolled out for

them Pete was so enthusiastic about his

his dream to have a

club you tell tell me about it he says

you got to come down you got to come

down to see it he just was inth with the

music he used to sit there like a

kid well there's a bit like seeing a

statu move really when I saw Sarah vau

down there I mean I couldn't believe

this was Sarah

[Music]

born see

like Passing Strangers

now how can you

[Music]

hry

there the two

love half as

much as you and

[Music]

I we seem like Ping changes

now funny how things have

[Music]

changed you are so

[Music]

Inseparable now you're acting Mighty

strange the

hands I used to touch

don't

[Music]

even how I miss your kiss

you never

[Music]

know if

[Music]

you as Ronn developed and more American

players came over and the British

players got used to playing alongside

them and in many cases accompanying them

I think it very quickly rubbed off and I

think it it brought the standards of

British Jazz up to a new level it rais

the bar and I think they learned very

quickly most of the musicians I know are

really very self-conscious and and

nervous and concerned about their

playing it is their life most Jazz are

very dedicated people

and um once they've done their bit which

is a you know as I say it's a it's a

really a a terribly difficult thing to

try and improvise something new every

time you go

on once they've done that bit it it

takes a great deal out of them

mentally it was a chance to see somebody

who is flying close to the Sun you know

they knew their instrument but it's what

they said with it that was fantastic

that's what brought the punters in

because they were seeing something and

listening to something which was

extraordinary now one of the great

enigmas in modern Jazz Miles Davis he's

here with Wayne shter on the saxophone

chick ker at the piano Jack de jonette

on the drums and Dave Holland on the

base who miles first heard working down

here and booked him to play with the

Quintet

[Music]

a

[Music]

for almost 20 years this club has been

providing great jazz every night of the

week at first it had a local Fame then

it became nationally famous and now it

holds a unique position it's

internationally famous as the Bas for

the best in modern jazz

[Music]

hello Ronnie Scot Club yes we're open

tonight what time uh do we open well

what time can you get here

now you can wear what you like just wear

a tie nothing else just a

tie okay

[Music]

bye-bye it's a little nest of Happiness

all the uh the recent wounds are all

healed here at Ronny Scots because

there's always somebody blowing

something beautiful and talking the kind

of

uh unconscious poetry that that only

good music can speak to

you they never set out to have the one

of the greatest jazz clubs in the world

that wasn't they just looked at it as

though I can go in there I can sit I can

talk I can play I can listen it was

never about the money at

all I'm not surprised they didn't make

any money because all these people I met

they oh yes I went down there took my

mom and dad and so and so down there

meals on the house booze on the house

they were so generous and and again and

again I heard this from people p you say

well your family ain't

you it had a jazz musician's Vibe about

it they'd take the piss out of you going

in the door what are you doing

here just that they couldn't be bothered

off the time but the staff in the club

had that similar attitude they were all

there

[Music]

loyal

[Music]

we we

shall change to

[Music]

imortality I'll show you a

my we shall not all see yeah but be

Chang yes I tell

you CH I want to do you know

that CH every last one of us

[Music]

change do you feel all right right

now all right

[Applause]

[Music]

all right holy ghost is here right

now holy ghost is here right

now the Holy

Ghost we shall be

[Music]

CH I know going to

[Music]

be

ch ch

[Music]

Scots was a

family everybody work there usually work

there for a long time you you felt you

belong to that it was very special it

was unique it was just one

club the club was home and the music was

what he felt most comfortable doing and

happiest

doing has it become

almost an extension of yourself like an

extra arm or an extra head that the club

has become part of your body I think it

has I mean 20 years is a long I mean

that's that's more than the Train

Robbers

go you a a very unusual case Ronnie

because you're one of the very few

people in this world and certainly in

the successful way that have been able

to remain a jazz player and run a

nightclub yeah well it's I I I'm very

lucky there because uh I have a partner

who handles the business side of things

you know and that leaves me free to to

play and uh and to uh kind of compare

the proceedings and um and it really

works very well because I have the best

of both

worlds I used to call them Lauren and

Hardy cuz they were absolutely great

great working together it was a lovely

friendship and fun it was good

fun the relationship between Pete King

and Ronnie is absolutely crucial to the

longevity of the

club I've always thought it was

important that they were both great

friends as well as as having this

obsessive common

interest we're totally different

characters and you've got to

be the best of friends

Ronnie is my best

friend Pete was um quite hard to get to

know I mean he was came was a very rough

character quite rough diamond you know

he could be a gangster in another

situation I think cuz he he didn't

suffer fors

gladly he took no [ __ ] my father and he

was respected for that so no one mess

with him yeah he was a very sarcastic

man and you if you didn't know him you

would think that he's having to got you

but it is his way of being

nice people used to say to me how can

you put up with him he's so Gruff but I

said no he's not he's a [ __ ] cat cuz he

was to

me and then when I used to hear him talk

to some people I think oh God you know

how can you say that happened but that

was Pete there was no front with him it

was just straight to the point

if it had been soft he would never have

got where he

got the running of the establishment I'm

sure Ronnie would tell you it's

difficult for me to say but it does fall

upon my

shoulders it was in a way like a

marriage you know they'd fall out and

they get back together again I mean

sometimes Pete's come home and said that

Ronny I'm going to kill him he's so

bloody awkward because he used to take

the Takin and go out and gamble if

Ronnie could gamble the club away he

would have

done Pete was the one that kept him

under control well he tried

anyway I don't think he succeeded very

well but there was always money troubles

there there were times when you thought

oh good lord I think we might have

cracked it this time and no sooner you

think that oh and it looked as though we

were going to have to pack it

in I remember when the chain was going

to go on the door and the accountant

turned around to Ronnie and we were

having this sort of final crunch meeting

and the accountant said look you got to

stop and Ronnie looked at me and said

what do we do

Pete when things were really desperate

you know I used to come to work and

there were guys in suits uh uh and

notebooks there in the afternoon walking

around uh making notes of how much the

piano was worth and how much the tables

and chairs were worth and stuff like

that must have been horrifying it was

and we were very close to just having to

forget it

all they were putting up Christmas

decorations and Pete was wandering

around with a hammer on and a ladder

doing things and Chris Blackwell came in

they said

P what's what's this about the clubs in

financial trouble well most clubs are

there's a hell of a recession going on

at the moment you

know uh he said um how how much trouble

I said £100,000 we were if we want it he

said are you going to run it like you've

always run it so I said well we don't

know any other

way so he said put me down for

25 well I'd heard they were getting into

some difficulties and I love the club I

love jazz I just wanted to do what I

could to keep it alive you know that

place has to stay

alive I think they were really surprised

by how much everybody wanted them to

stick

around there was someone who said to

Pete at the time if you'd been better

businessmen this wouldn't have happened

to you and Pete said if we've been

better businessmen we wouldn't have

started a jazz club in the first place

[Music]

[Music]

they have a very casual attitude towards

the customers but a very rigid attitude

towards what they have an offer they

just won't offer total mediocrity or

[ __ ] tell Jazz and I think that

impresses people I think they come here

because they really like and Trust what

R is going to give

them I'd like to see the music business

in such a a position that one could put

on for instance someone like Donovan in

the main room and it was at the Gary

Burton quartet and upstairs the discoe

would play good pop music and I'm

convinced that that this is where the

future of jazz lies in appealing to uh

the people like pop music you know and

I'm sure this is possible because there

are so many pop groups now especially

the forward looking ones that are

playing jazz whether they think so or

they realize it or not they

are to recall what happened that night

at uh Ronnie Scott was a magical night

and I'll never forget

it we were booked at um Ronnie Scotts

with Eric Burton and War this is

probably one of the hottest bands in

London at the time we were on

I went down on the

Wednesday whenever I was going to a

decent gig I was like get a tght

recording of

it got my recorder in the bag and I set

it all up War come

on he said one of our friends want to

come and join

in Jimmy Hendrick came in I was down on

stage and I saw him out in the

audience and he had a Strat in his hand

he was coming toward the stage and I

noticed his eyes just so white and wide

open you know he was ready to

play we started jamming a song called a

Mother Earth was was this hardcore Blues

Jimmy lit into a guitar solo I mean me

and Jimmy were just cutting the place up

we were tearing it up me and him back

and forth back and forth great night

[Music]

that night at Ronnie's my feet weren't

touching the

ground the next night we got word that

after the set jimm had died it was

terrible terrible thought like that and

I was last guitars play with him

[Applause]

[Music]

when people started coming to Ronnie

Scotts in fris street because it was a

kind of hip slightly risque West End

nightclub I think that meant then that

they had to offer them something more

and Ronnie who was an absolutely natural

comic and had been the front man right

from the beginning in a way but in fris

Street his role as the announcer and the

extremely funny MC

expanded sh quiet please Ron is

talking fell loses his dog puts an

advert in the paper here

[Applause]

boy joke was good enough for my father

is good enough for

me I think it's nice to kind of loosen

an audience up by being kind of humorous

or as humorous as you can be um but uh

you a lot of people say they enjoy the

jokes but the bad joke we're very

fortunate to have in the band one of the

best bass players in the

world unfortunately can't be with us

tonight he always looked as if he was

waiting for something nice to happen and

it wasn't going to happen he had that

look about him but he was Bloody funny

you can't travel on tour with musicians

half your life and not pick up some kind

of

routine but musicians are you know are

very humorous people I don't know why it

is but it's something to do with uh I

don't know you know if you're traveling

in a coach for for hundreds of miles if

you don't you know have a sense of humor

it can drive you completely Bonkers you

know so there is a lot of humor amongst

amongst musicians it's slightly sardonic

humor isly cruel humor yes yes the the

the the the typical example of that kind

of I always think of is you know this

trumpet player wingy manone in America

very fine trumpet he's only got one arm

consequently Wing him know and uh he's

very friendly with PE Russell and every

Christmas PE Russell sends him one

cuffing do you regret that you're

perhaps now as famous for your appalling

jokes as you are for your magnificent

saxophone

play well I do in a way because really

as far as I'm concerned that joke is

just kind of a hobby I mean other guys

have make model airplanes and stuff like

that and I try and do a 10-minute

standup spot and and it's just a hobby

[Music]

I got to tell you there was a TV quiz

program few weeks ago and one of the

questions was what instrument does

Ronnie Scott play and there were four

people answering questions on this quiz

one said the

trombone one said the drums one said the

banjo and one said the Pian so I don't

know how well known I am as far as I'm

concerned I still feel that I'm a

saxophone player some people thought of

him as a funny man they didn't mention

him as a musician and that could really

upset him because he wanted to be known

as a musician not the clown that's going

to introduce the

musicians there was something there

which was imponderable basically and you

know in those D didn't have the time nor

he had the inclination to discuss what

it might be

his vision of himself was so self

effacing that it was

destructive he couldn't see that the

humor that he brought to the people was

clearly distinctly important to the

audience he saw it as a buffoon making a

fool of himself on the

[Music]

stage isn't rich

aren't we up

here me finally here on the

ground and you

[Music]

in send in the

clowns send in the

clowns is a little BL

don't you

approve one who keeps standing

around and

one who can't

move send in the

CLS send in the

clouds just when I saw

opening

doors finally knowing the one that I

want it was

yours making my entrance

[Music]

again he fulfilled that image you heard

of that sort of wise crack inside of the

mouth Jazz play you know seen everything

and kept a large part of his life

secret didn't have any social life

outside of the club and a few friends he

had were

musicians who were friends when he was

on geks with

[Music]

them never went to any of these

musicians house or they never came over

it was just work music and home

isn't it

rich isn't it

queer losing my timing like this this

late in my

career sending the

[Music]

clouds when I was very young I used to

think that

anybody that could play that good had to

be a very nice

intelligent psychologically balanced guy

it isn't true by any means that some of

the best players I know are complete uh

completely hopeless as human

[Music]

beings

don't

bother there

[Music]

you knew when he was not right if you

know what I mean yeah a depression he

suffered from it quite badly quite a few

times

actually you used to come around for

Christmas and things like that but it

was very

difficult he wasn't

happy couple of times when he was really

bad he came to the house and stayed at

the house and we looked after him but he

was so

difficult you know you could never leave

him alone cuz you never knew where the

you going to come back and he was

[Music]

dead those things were kept very quiet

by the kind of whole club setup and it

was part I think of also that rather

Macho East End background that him and

Pete had had

you could acknowledge being an alcoholic

or a heroin addict or something but you

couldn't acknowledge having a mental

problem it was somehow

shaming the first

sign that we saw of the Depression was

actually in

1965 he didn't know what was happening

to him he was

just terribly

distressed so we we hid it we he would

didn't want anyone to know he did

absolutely didn't want anyone to know

and we would leave the club in the early

hours of the morning 4 or 4:30 and he

could drop the mask that he'd had up all

night and he could be himself and

himself was falling

apart nobody talked about manic

depression nobody knew about it you know

if you suffered from that Dreadful

illness you were ignored or you were

told well it's just you know it's just a

drunk or he's into drugs or he's not

taking care of himself when they don't

realize that you can't control

that there were times where Dad wouldn't

really be

himself I didn't understand being shut

out when he was going through those

doubts that he was going through and

because I wasn't able to recognize it I

didn't know and just felt that that he

was just not interested or bored with

me that it was later on in my life where

I could really have a better

understanding and not make it about me

um and not take it personally as it is a

very selfish disease I feel like the

only only thing you're really thinking

about as far as others is just that

you're more of a burden than anything

else on anybody but you're not able to

see what it would do if you were no

longer here it's more of I'm just a

burden they don't need me around

[Music]

anymore you know I don't look ahead uh I

just um live day to day at the moment

everything's okay you know I can't look

uh too far into the future I'm afraid

I've never being that

way it could be going for years without

drinking any alcohol not taking any

sleeping tablets not taking any drugs

it's just um you couldn't always check

on what he was taking but you would soon

realize what was going on unfortunately

I witnessed several suicide

attempts I remember one particular

occasion on the Sunday morning he called

me in tears I said what I feel terrible

I said should I come over he said no no

you've been a good pal Wally no I'll

I'll be all right and he that's you know

that's the sort of thing I would get

from him I particularly remember that

one when he was in the

PRI I remember him saying to me why does

Pete keep on save him is Stella and I

said I don't know Ronnie and he said why

don't you just let me

go and I couldn't answer him

devastating devastating people couldn't

grasp or

understand why he went to the club and

played was the only way he could deal

with

[Music]

it people say to me

you need

[Music]

company when you

have some time to

spend drop

[Music]

around when you need a

[Music]

friend they forget

I'm not over

you for a

[Music]

while I can't go

on without

you your love is on

oh I'm

[Music]

living I know

whatever

be

me I love you s when you hit the bottom

and you think there's just no nobody and

no reason to carry on

so you hit it hard and you come out or

you

don't

[Music]

gosh when he got over it he was very

happy to be alive

[Music]

[Applause]

I really feel that uh the jazz musician

is an artist he doesn't owe anything

really to his audience except to give

the best performance musically that that

he's capable of which most Jazz

musicians or every jazz musician that I

know does anyway you know whenever he

goes on the stand it's a it's uh um a

kind of trauma and he tries to do his

best and you know it's very frustrating

most of the time that you can't always

play at your Peak I think your sense of

self your sense of well-being is

inextricably linked with your music

you're looking for Transcendence that

you can't really control you don't know

when it's going to

come and when it does it's the most

exhilarating feeling you can have and

for a second you could take your

hands off the saxophone and it feels

like it's playing

[Music]

itself it's very very difficult to

reproduce that

and you want it again and you want it

again someone like Ronnie who obviously

struggled with depression

and he needed

that any musician will tell you that

however down you're feeling a great gig

will pull your head above the water for

a

bit you give everything you got emptied

it Cup every time and it come back twice

as full it's a ja philosophy it's say

the greatest State of Mind is the

ability to balance between making it

happen and letting it happen letting it

happen you turn it over to a higher

power that is how Ronnie dealt with

every tragedy in his life absolutely he

played it out through his

music that's what it's about it's about

playing your feelings that that's what

we do we play Life

[Music]

he loved musicians as much as he loved

music you could see it was like a child

you could he he'd switch from morling

old man to excited young boy literally

like

that he was as much in awe of these

people as he was the day he walked into

the clubs on 52nd Street as a young man

he never lost that

one night we were driving home in the

car and he said to me he said you know

Mary he said it's it's unbelievable it's

just magical

that here I am with this little Club in

London and Ben Webster is playing my

club he said I can't believe it I can't

believe that this is all happening

from sitting where his office was just

behind the stage you realize that he

listened to every bit of music that was

ever being played on that stage it was

almost like he was an extension of the

back

there keeps me off the streets I get

free food uh but the main thing really

is uh um I get to

hear you know great players all the time

it's like having a Master Class 12

months a year hey come on

man come on

man hey come on

man I'm waiting for the

man crazy for the

man my

man my man don't love me he treats me oh

so so

mean my man don't love me he treats me

oh so

me he's the meatest

man I ever seen he's from

[Music]

Bright

Sheffield

[Music]

Bristol tell me all about him keer tell

me about my man

yeah

right

what oh I made a mistake he's from

London

yeah oh

yeah man what else did you say about him

ke you don't

say

what

what old the dirty old oh

man

the

[Music]

baby

man I'm

waiting I'm

Wai

for for my

man man he never

[Music]

my know my man

he

London my

man

[Music]

my right on

[Applause]

so and I'm not sure exactly why he went

to see the dentist but this was someone

that he's been going to for a very very

long time so he knew dad he knew dad was

a musician but for whatever reasons the

dentist felt the need to remove all of

Dad's teeth to put in porcelain

ones it was a torturous long winded

process this thing of putting in

implants it was the only way he could go

and still maintain his omra Shore but

unfortunately the dentist was not an

accomplished dentist in that area and it

didn't

work this was after 2 years of Agony in

hell and not playing only to arrive at

this Dreadful place where none of it had

worked one of the main things that one

doesn't do is mess with a musician's

mouth shifting it ever so slightly just

throws your whole entire playing off

because not only is is the instrument

performing but your mouth is now a part

of the instrument and that's where your

sound really is Created

from it's almost like starting from

square one again and I

guess when you're 69 that can seem like

a mountain to

climb everything declined because he

couldn't play everything and it's not

that he didn't fight it it's not that he

didn't battle it he had a tremendous

battle for a couple of

years it's difficult you I always feel a

bit sad if if if a guy comes over that

that that I know was a great player 10

or 15 years ago who uh lose the the the

thing that they had you

know he definitely felt that he was

useless if he couldn't play I think I

heard him once or twice use that word

Whenever there were episodes where he

couldn't play the same Max phone I think

that really brought him to a very low

E the realization that he wasn't going

to have that probably weighed very

heavily on him cuz that it was his

[Music]

life you know not only did he lose his

gift but he lost his Outlet to express

his feelings however sad or happy they

might have

been the situation with his teeth

prevented him from playing it out and

for the first time in his life he could

not pick up his horn and

play one thing that he said to me then

and then repeated many times after that

is Mary you must understand that if the

time comes and I can't play to my

satisfaction I don't belong here anymore

[Music]

n

[Music]

we went to the funeral up in

Hamstead it was very sad it wasn't just

that Ronnie died you know it was all the

the memories that go back in time all

that stuff you

know oh

yeah when Ronnie died Pete was

lost you know at night time used to cry

terribly and I didn't know what to do or

say to him I'd never come across it

before like a man could cry like that

because he did love him really loved

him and I think Ronnie loved him as

well I went to identify the body because

Pete hadn't got the heart to go and see

it so he died in his in his apartment in

Chelsea and it was uh a sad

[Music]

moment there was an inquest of course

and the inquest concluded that he died

from an in cautious dose of

sedatives not that it was

suicide don't know I'll never know

[Applause]

that was awful time awful

time it was always Ronny Ronnie Ronny

Ronnie and then all of a sudden he was

Pete everybody wanted to interview him

and how he felt and everything and I was

really really worried about him cuz he

took it really hard

it was touch and go whether the club was

going to

close I would like very much for Ronnie

Scotts to go

on I don't know how at this stage but I

would like to think that Ronnie Scotts

will go on and on and on

[Music]

he knew that he had to keep the club

going to be able to find someone to take

it on cuz I wasn't going to do it he was

getting old he wanted to retire but he

wanted the club to carry on because of

Rony

[Music]

[Music]

with over 20 years spent transforming

and revitalizing some of the most

historic Arts venues in the country

Sally green is a businesswoman who's

earned the unusual title theater

regenerator but her most recent purchase

has caused to stir in jazzland and so we

sent Rachel to Ronnie Scotts to find out

more Sandy green was a lifesaver cuz

there was so many people after the club

and Pete realized that she was the one

in those days women weren't really

allowed to take over and she

did when you think of all the people who

played here it's iconic it's

extraordinary it's beautiful and it

stood the test of

time the decision he made to sell it to

Sally took quite a lot of people by

surprise it needed a refurbishment cuz

it had very much got run down at that

point and Sally gave it a major brush up

and I think that surprised a few people

that actually it was much

smarter it's very very well known but we

need to resuscitate it I just thought it

needs lighting up it needs something

special done to

it Sally introduced Michael watt as a

financial partner he was quite a

knowledge on Jazz so was able to

contribute quite a

lot I'm very proud of what Sally and I

have done here I'm very proud of what

the staff has done

here when we purchased the place the

greatest worry was that our crowds would

desert us and we withstood a fair bit of

criticism from the old crew and what

they failed to take on is that Ronnie

Scots was on the bones of its ass it was

finished we've elevated into the 21st

century and we've elevated in a way

which the fact that we're always full

tells us that people accept

I was curious but I mean you know they

updated it and they modernized it and uh

you know what the programming's been

brilliant if we got a decision to make

about something

artistically and you is that sort of

thing Ronnie would book what would

Ronnie feel if we' booked that CU we do

occasionally go off piece but they did

as well and I always hang on to

that there is a very rich Legacy with

this club that Pete and Ronnie laid down

if we put something on does it reinforce

or does it take away from what they

created you see ourselves as a s

Guardians of the club but also

refreshing it without damaging any of

that

Legacy I'm delighted I couldn't be more

delighted I know it's it's not as as it

was it's gone more commercial but so

what you've got as we live in a more

commercial World guys briefing please

briefing briefing I con look at the

lineups there's so much to pick from so

much new music coming through which I

think Ronnie Scots has done really well

at kind of engaging with and

incorporating into their program because

it's quite easy for these clubs to just

become museums in a way

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

it

all hatred of

me Jud

to up

[Music]

I think Sally green and the team really

understand the foundation that Dad has

left

[Music]

behind there's an adaptability about

Ronnies I think now it's very shrewdly

run by Simon cook and others and I think

in that sense they realize the jazz is

this very broad church and there's a new

interest in it from a younger audience

which they can incorporate along side

catering for the traditional audience

they've always

[Music]

had when you say we're playing Ronnie

Scotts that's the

Pinnacle I think that's like the thing

on your resume they go wow played it

Ronnie Scots that's

amazing I sat here last night and I said

can you imagine the legendary people

that have sat in this dressing room this

very dressing room because it hasn't

changed in all those years

[Music]

[Music]

the club was Ronnie and Pete that's it

without them it wouldn't have worked it

was a huge experiment they had to work

their asses off to get it off the ground

but they stuck with it for people who

love music priceless

priceless it is the equivalent of of so

many different things in classical music

it's a Recital Hall it's a concert hall

it's a place of

learning it was one of those magic

passages in time and you didn't want to

miss a note not one

note when you walk into this

room there is an incredible atmosphere

there was moving moving

[Music]

for me personally it's been a total CH

you know I've had a heart attack out of

it uh and had my real down periods and

up periods but the outcome of it is if I

had my choice to do it over again with

Ronnie I would do it all over again I'd

love

to I'm grateful that I had a chance to

know Ronnie and Pete my life wouldn't be

complete without knowing those people

going through my experience in

London there's been some phenomenal

artists they've all come through Ronnie

Scots I really really am grateful to the

place because it just opened up another

world for

me I saw all the best it was like a

dream come true

[Music]

keep this place alive man because it

infects everybody that walks through

that

door I've seen over 60 70 years Jazz and

Blues take over the world it's

unbelievable Ronnie Scots it means

freedom and coming

together it was that place where he went

to worship and the one constant factor

in all of it were these two guys who

done it

yeah when we first started we had no

Ambitions at all really just a place for

you know local guys to

play it's now

become of world

repute in a way we're very proud of

it yeah it is amazing I mean it's it's

um it's much easier to name the people

that haven't played the musicians that

haven't played here rather than the ones

that

have one we did get Duke

ellon you get John C TR got Charlie par

Charlie par but there have been some

marvelous nights the place great nights

been a marvelous audience uh thank you

very much for listening to me you've

made a happy man very old thanks a lot

oh