Original subtitles

I'm sure most of you are aware of the recent television special that claimed

give an honest, candid, and revealing look into the private life of one of the

world's most successful and controversial celebrities, Michael

revelations were explosive.

The ratings were enormous.

But Michael has claimed that what TV journalist Martin Bashir presented was a

twisted and edited construction of scandal and innuendo, not a true

representation of the interviews that actually took place.

In the next two hours, we're going to give you an opportunity unprecedented in

the history of television.

We're going to show you footage that was never intended to be broadcast.

Tonight, the private video from Michael's own cameras.

Cameras that shot the Michael Jackson interview.

The footage you were never meant to see.

As much as I do not speak about my family, I will.

Right now.

For the first time, Michael's ex -wife speaks out in public.

My kids don't call me mom because I don't want them to.

You'll find out what really happened during the astonishing incidents with

children in Germany.

And I've seen people flip their kids up in the air and do somersaults and catch

them. To be honest with you, I think wait another four or five years, the

will come in front of a camera and they will defend their dad.

You'll hear about Michael's childhood.

One of the things I can see this man tried to do, he tried to pin something

me where I was real brutal.

You'll find out how Michael really feels about his father.

He doesn't know this, but...

You'll hear about Michael's surgery that the other special didn't mention.

You'll hear the truth behind Michael's children and their disguises.

You'll go behind the rumors of the Neverland Ranch.

And find out how those rumors have driven a family from their home.

Gavin called me. He was crying on the phone.

He went in gas station. The kids in gas station, they start kidding. Oh, you are

the kids doing this with Michael. You slept with Michael. They ruined this

life. You'll hear from the people closest to Michael.

I've heard someone say on the television that no one should be allowed behind

those gates at Neverland, especially the children. They don't even know what

they're talking about.

Plus. A surprise revelation from the man behind the Michael Jackson interviews.

There'll be a lot of controversy about this.

It's a tabloid. Well, you'll be young.

I know. All tonight on the Michael Jackson interview, the footage you were

meant to see.

Hosted by Maury Povich.

With Mr. Bashir's full knowledge, Michael had his own behind -the -scenes

documenting the major interviews.

The quality of the audio and video may be a bit raw at times, but it will

you to see and hear the interviews as they actually happen and will allow you,

the viewing audience, to draw your own conclusions.

And while Michael Jackson has provided this footage to us, he has absolutely no

control over the editorial content of this program.

But who is Martin Batyr? And how did he get an exclusive interview with one of

the most reclusive pop stars the world has ever known?

In 1995, this little -known British journalist caused an uproar when his

sensational interview with Princess Diana revealed the tales of her

affair.

Since then, he has scored interviews with some of England's most notorious

newsmakers, becoming somewhat of a celebrity himself.

His interview with Jackson was, as he put it, a request to show me the real

But show me everything.

Make nothing off limits.

Michael agreed.

And the first interview was scheduled for the summer of 2002.

In these photos of one of Bashir's interviews with Jackson, you can see the

camera that captured the footage you were never meant to see.

It's mounted right there on the light stand.

This is the view it was capturing at the last interview.

And this is the shot.

From the very first interview at Neverland, the man adjusting the lens is

Jackson's own documentary cameraman.

Well, I just wanted to clarify that it was not a secret video.

Because right now they're saying that we were secretly videotaping him. But

that's not the truth.

But she saw me, you know, hooking up the camera.

And, you know, everybody saw the camera out there and we were just rolling it.

We usually do documentary on every, you know, thing that Mr. Jackson does.

Do you think that your success has actually made people turn against you?

The bigger the star, the bigger the target.

And the more popular I became, the more rumors that were created, which none of

which were true.

I mean, the moment I started breaking the all -time records of the biggest

selling albums of all time, they called me weird overnight, strange, wacko.

You know, they said I'm a girl, homosexual.

He wants to buy the Elephant Man bones. He sleeps in a hyperbaric chamber. None

of that stuff is true.

All completely made up. I've seen where you sleep. All alive.

I've seen where you sleep. I sleep in a bed.

People would be so surprised how normal and simple we live.

Most people would have a very hard time thinking Michael Jackson's life was

normal or simple.

Maybe it's that ranch north of Santa Barbara, California, the 3 ,000 acres he

calls Neverland.

Neverland is an extraordinary, a breathtaking, a stupendous, an

an amazing place. I can't gather together words to describe Neverland.

What inspired you to make a home like this?

What inspired me? It was so easy because it was me being myself, creating things

that I love.

And what I love, kids happen to love, or the child that lives inside the adult.

happens to love, you know? It is so easy because I'm just putting behind the

gate everything I never got to do when I was a kid.

Do

you

have regrets about the way your life has been?

Somewhat.

And what do you regret?

I was really little, around 11 or 12.

I was under contract with Motown, and I would have to go to the recording

studio. I had to go and make these albums, because the summer tour was

around the corner, and right across the street from the recording studio was a

ballpark, and I could hear the kids.

You know, the roar of the crowd and playing and catching ball and having fun

playing tennis.

And some of those times I so passionately wanted to just go over

a little bit and not go to the recording studio and sing.

Just to, you know, have some fun with the kids.

And I couldn't.

People say, why is he always with children?

Well, I was raised in a world with adults.

The kids were playing in bed, sleeping. I was up doing clubs.

I was doing club dates, 3 in the morning.

The striptease would come on after us.

We were performing, and we didn't have friends.

My brothers were my friends, but we worked. We worked up until Christmas.

On my birthday, I was very strict with my witnesses.

So I'm compensating. Nature makes sure that I compensate for the lost.

So when you come behind my gate, you'll see amusement parks, you'll see animals,

you'll see everything I never got to do. There's candy everywhere.

Fun. While Bashir and his crew were here at Neverland, they got to witness what

has become an almost weekly experience.

Buffloads of children, some from the inner city, some orphans.

some terminally ill, but all of them escaping their reality to spend a day at

Michael Jackson's creation.

Want to come over here?

I feel totally at home with them. I can talk to them one -on -one

because they don't judge you.

They're not looking for anything.

They just want to have some fun.

And that's the same with myself.

And I can connect to that.

I can understand that.

And the fact that I miss that on so much as a child.

As soon as they come in the room, for me, the room lights up.

I like the sound it makes.

They're really funny.

Oh, my God, they're funny.

Didn't one of them say something funny to you yesterday about... Yeah, one of

the boys said to me, he said, he saw all the rides and all the amusements, and

he said, Michael Jackson, do you own all of this?

I go, yeah.

He said, do you pay for all of this?

I said, yeah, I did.

And you still have money left over?

That's exactly what he said to me. I said, yeah.

I said, yeah.

He goes, I can't believe it.

He said, I can't believe it.

That's exactly what he said.

He was amazed that I still had money left over.

We're Make -A -Wish staff members, and we are escorting all the Wish families

that came to meet Michael.

It's just great to be a part of it and see how happy they are.

Everything is free.

Theater, amusement park, whatever they want to do, they can do it.

But it's not free to you. It costs you millions of dollars. Millions a year,

yeah, millions.

But, you know, I get it all back when I see them smile.

Peter Pan.

I've been in the house. I've seen the statues outside the house.

Why is Peter Pan a figure of such interest and inspiration to you?

Because Peter Pan, to me, represents something that's very special in my

You know, he represents youth, childhood, never growing up, magic,

flying, everything I think that children

and wonderment and magic, what it's all about.

And to me, I just have never, ever grown out of loving that or thinking that

it's very special.

You don't want to grow up? No, I am Peter Pan.

Hey, you're not your Michael Jackson.

I'm Peter Pan in the heart.

Do you think it would be true to say that you found friendship and

in children that you haven't been able to find in adults?

Absolutely.

Really? Yeah.

I haven't been betrayed or deceived by children.

Adults have let me down. Adults have let the world down.

What you're seeing all took place on the day that Martin Bashir and his crew

were filming at Neverland.

You actually see him in several of the shots being taken by Jackson's camera

crew. This was supposed to be a documentary to tell the truth.

Everything. I mean, who would bring somebody to his life and open up all the

and wanted to lie about it? You know, if you don't want to lie about it, don't

even do it.

He didn't have to do this documentary.

Nobody forced him to do this documentary.

After a full day spent with children from the Make -A -Wish Foundation at

Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch, what was Mr. Bashir's comment?

We'll quote directly from his appearance on ABC's Primetime Thursday.

One of the most disturbing things is the fact that a lot of disadvantaged

children go to Neverland.

It's a dangerous place for a vulnerable child to be.

Now, I'm not saying that I saw any evidence of Michael Jackson being

sexually with any children.

Quite the contrary. But what I am saying is that children who are vulnerable

should not be going into the house of a billionaire superstar where they sleep

in his bed.

That was Bashir's comment heard on TV by millions of people.

But what did Bashir say to Michael Jackson about this day at Neverland?

Let's take a look at the footage that was captured by Michael's camera

documenting the interview.

The problem is, you see, nobody actually comes here and sees it.

But I was here yesterday and I saw it.

And it's nothing short of a spiritually timed thing.

I know, I know, but I've told him.

A lot of people see it, but they never talk about it. And I've said this to

and what I wanted to convey is those two things.

And what we've had the privilege of doing this week is not only talking

the musical genius, but about what we saw yesterday, which is incredible.

The woman you see has been Michael's makeup artist for over 20 years.

After listening to the glowing praise Bashir had for Michael in this

she had a very hard time believing he could call Neverland a dangerous place

children.

It's so hard for me to imagine that Michael opened up the

gates, not only to Neverland, but to his heart, to Bashir.

And I really thought...

They're for sure. Got it.

It's getting worse.

He does, I mean, I can't tell you. You never see anybody talk about that stuff.

But when he's talking about the things that he's passionate about,

it's obvious that he's in his eye.

People usually don't ask these questions.

And if they do, they don't make it in the papers, they don't make it.

on the interviews, all the negative stuff.

And they cut questions out, and they just, like, that's why he doesn't even

interviews anymore.

They twist everything.

From the moment I met him, I mean, I remember, how can people be so cruel

read an article and I would cry, and he goes, well,

we ain't doing that yet.

Now, what could make an award -winning journalist?

have such a different opinion between what he would say on the air and what he

would say in the interview footage not included in his special.

It appears that after Mr. Bashir had called cut for his own camera crew, he

well have forgotten that Michael's camera was still recording his every

possibility supported by a written request from both him and the producers

his special to make Michael's footage available for their review.

The different opinion expressed by Mr. Bashir regarding the safety of the

underprivileged children who visit Neverland is only the first of several

contradictory moments captured on tape, all of which you will see and hear on

this program.

When we come back, an exclusive interview with Michael's ex -wife.

As much as I do not speak about my family, I will.

Right now.

Michael makes a long overdue confession.

You had sex with Debbie.

I know that's difficult for me to say because you're so embarrassed.

But you actually had sex with her. You can see that.

And Debbie tells us about the result.

Plus,

a very surprising revelation from

Michael's private cameras.

All when we return to the Michael Jackson interview, the footage you were

meant to see.

In addition to the never -before -seen footage from Martin Bashir's interview,

We have also been allowed unprecedented interviews with some of the people

closest to Michael Jackson, people who have turned down very lucrative offers

tell the inside story of life behind the Neverland Gate.

They break their silence for the first time, and not for money.

No one interviewed for this show received any payment to tell their

Their reason for appearing here is to tell the truth as they see it.

And the person who has most avoided the glare of the spotlight is the person who

was perhaps the closest to Michael, the woman who was his wife and the mother of

his first two children, Debbie Rowe.

What's happened in the past is things have been taken out of context, twisted

around.

If I can help straighten it out, as much as I do not speak about my family, I

will.

Right now.

When I was talking to Prince one day, he said to me that he didn't have a

mother.

Yeah, I said, Prince, where's your money? And he said, I haven't got a

Did you tell him to say that?

What do you think he means when he said I haven't got a mother?

My kids don't call me mom because I don't want them to.

They're not.

They're Michael's children. It's not that they're not my children, but I had

them because I wanted him to be a father.

I believe that there are people who should be parents, and he's one of them.

And he is such a fabulous man and such a good friend, and he's always been there

for me, always, from the day I met him.

I could do something for him, and this is what I wanted to do.

Most people think Michael and Debbie's relationship was very short -term.

Actually, they met over 22 years ago.

Was it intense, ma 'am? No.

No, it was over time.

It was over time. I think it was 18 years, 17, 18 years

that I knew him.

When I...

When I had Prince.

In that time, they've gone on some very unusual outings, often with Michael in

the sky.

Yeah, he'd call, what are you doing? Nothing, what are you doing?

Want to know the video? Yeah.

You know, I'd sneak out without security.

I got caught.

Oh, God, it's like a Beatles film. We're getting chased by people.

We have to call security and bail us out.

Yeah, we'd go out and do stuff.

So you'd go out to the ranch. Sneak him into premieres and things.

Yeah, we had a good time. We had a good time. He's always a lot of fun.

When did Michael start talking about wanting to have kids?

Was it when he was still with Lisa Marie?

No, they had broken up.

And I was trying to console him because he was really upset.

And he was upset that he really wanted to be a dad. And I said...

So be a dad.

And she looked at me puzzled. And I said, let me do this.

I want to do this.

You've been so good to me. You're such a great friend. Please let me do this.

I said, you need to be a dad.

I want to do this.

And, no, no, no.

I nagged him into it, if you will.

She's a wonderful person. She knew that Michael Jackson loves children.

Yeah. And she knew that Michael Jackson wanted children. That's why.

And she was... You need to be a daddy.

Right.

She said you needed to be a daddy.

More than she needed to be a mother.

Yeah. And she wanted to do that for me as a child.

And if you're talking about romance, maybe then, if you want to have a...

A marker, if that makes you and the rest of America feel that they need a

marker, then you could probably use that.

Once Debbie's pregnancy became common knowledge, the tabloid world had one

burning question.

Did they or didn't they?

The first two crystal pairs from Debbie, which was natural conception.

You had sex with Debbie?

Yes. I know that's difficult for you.

For me to say, because you're so embarrassed.

But you actually had sex with her. You can see that.

From the first moment Debbie learned she was pregnant, Michael warned her of

what was to come.

He said, you don't know what they can do.

And I said, oh, Michael, come on.

We're having a baby. Normal people are having a baby.

Come on.

How can that be weird? We're having a kid.

If anything, that's beautiful. That's wonderful. That's great.

Boy, was I wrong.

I found out at one point a picture of me pregnant was worth half a million

dollars.

To who and why?

Have they never ever seen someone pregnant before?

Am I supposed to look different pregnant because it's Michael's baby than

someone else?

As you've heard, the decision to have Michael's child was easy for Debbie.

The actual birth was another matter.

And we were very excited.

Michael was definitely more excited than I was.

You know, he was so excited when we had a contraction.

And he was there.

We had videos. We had music, you know.

And it was long. It was 23 hours.

And I had a very colorful language.

And every time I went to say something, Michael would cut me off with, Shoot!

Or fudge.

Oh, he doesn't like cursing.

Or... He didn't think it was necessary when there were other words to do.

So... But he was there the whole time. Held my hand.

Stroke my head.

I think I puked once.

And I was so embarrassed. And he was like,

Stop. You're fine.

This is beautiful. This is wonderful. I said, I'm going to die.

No, you're not going to die. This is great.

okay, we're crowning, you know, and Michael, bam, he's right there.

And he goes, oh, my God, this is so beautiful.

Now, having come from a medical background, there is no way blood and

there's no way, you can't, sorry, I don't come from that background.

It's like, Michael, it can't be that beautiful.

Oh, he was welling up.

And then his son was born.

And the look on his face.

Talk to my producer.

I'd never seen him that happy.

And that's what made it wonderful for me, was

to see the look on his face.

The birth of Prince Michael was soon followed.

By a sister, Paris.

Yeah, we were kind of told we should wait.

You know, I guess there's a waiting, a suggested waiting time.

But I was flying to Paris all the time. That's actually how she got her name.

That's where she was conceived.

Do you not think, though, that your children would benefit from contact with

their mother?

No, but she doesn't.

It's private information. She doesn't.

She can't handle it.

She can't handle her own children.

Yes, I can't reveal that because I don't want to make anybody upset.

While Michael may seem reluctant to discuss Debbie's absence from their

children, Debbie had no reluctance whatsoever.

People don't understand that. And they want a traditional, they think that

something has to be traditional.

And they have this notion of beaver cleaver.

That wasn't reality in the 50s, and that's not reality in the 21st century.

We have a nontraditional family, and if it makes people uncomfortable,

it's a shame that they're not more open.

We are a family unit.

Michael and I will always be connected with the kids.

I will always be there for him. I will always be there for the children.

And people make remarks, oh, I can't believe she left her children.

Left them? I left my children?

Do not leave my children. My children are with their father.

Where they're supposed to be.

So, this mother carries both children for nine months in her body.

And she gives birth to them.

And she prefers that they have nothing to do with her.

Split up because I... They got to a point where I couldn't deal with it. I

couldn't deal with the fact... I couldn't go to the grocery store.

For two reasons. One, I'd get followed.

Two, I'd have to look at crap on the newsstands that are right at the

as you go out that wasn't true.

You know?

I wasn't used to it.

I like doing things for myself.

Michael is more than generous. We don't have to go to the grocery store, but I

want to.

I really want to.

I want to go back to what I can go back to.

That was what I was used to. That's where I'm comfortable.

Doing this is very uncomfortable for me.

Talking about these things is extremely uncomfortable for me.

But it's hard when you're an entertainer, you know. It's hard to have

marriage.

I mean, one day I'll be married again, but maybe too soon. I went through two

tough courses.

So I'm married to my fans.

I'm married to God. I'm married to my children.

I'm married to life.

Coming up, the notorious incident that had the whole world talking.

And it happened for like two seconds, but when it gets on the news, we slow it

down.

Michael's mother reveals what it was like to grow up in the Jackson 5.

Joseph didn't beat him or anything like that. We just disciplined him out of

love. And we find out why Bubbles had to go.

Because the chance they get to an age like teenage kids do, where they want to

challenge their parents.

All when we return to the Michael Jackson interview.

The footage you were never meant to see.

When Martin Bashir arrived to film Michael and his children, Bashir was

immediately confronted with one of the major worries of celebrity parents, the

horrible danger of kidnapping.

Consequently, as a security measure, public appearances by Michael's children

require that their faces be hidden behind masks or veils.

Bashir's repeated questioning fails to establish one important fact, whose idea

it was to wear them.

I obviously have some influence, as their faces are still covered.

That was my request, not his.

Michael's very proud of his children.

I'm the one who's terrified.

I'm the one who's seen the notes that someone's going to take his children.

They're not.

They're not.

Whatever, whatever can be done. They're not. There's nothing more terrifying

than looking at a piece of paper that says, I'm taking them.

And I said, you know what?

I wore a scarf. No big deal.

Pretend it's Halloween.

I don't want people seeing that the press are, they can be very mean.

I don't want them to grow up psychologically crazy because of the

they can say to them.

I want them to be normal.

That makes sense, doesn't it?

Yeah. Right? It does.

It does.

And I'm sure at some point he will say, you know, to the children,

do you want to wear the scarf?

I will have immediate heart failure, you know, but...

Yeah, he's not going to make his children do something they don't want to

He's not that kind of a parent.

Not at all.

And I truly don't see why everybody

focuses on that.

I mean, is it a fashion statement?

Are the scarves not matching?

You know, we'll work on it.

While some people may have a hard time with the intense security measures

Michael and his family have to follow, there was one particular occurrence in

Germany that had many people questioning his children's safety.

Take,

for example, what happened in Germany where there was a huge outcry and you

suffered a great deal of negative comment in the press.

Was there no one in your group who said, Michael, even though you're not going

to damage your child and you would never harm your child, but Michael, if you

dangle blanket over a balcony, you are going to be severely criticized.

Was there no one in the room who would say, Michael, don't do it?

And they didn't say no?

No, because I was holding everything strong, hard, tight.

Now, that's exactly what I'm saying, though. And I know better.

And I've seen people that flip their kids up in the air, do somersaults and

catch them.

And, you know, I get caught up in the moment. It's holding on tight.

Give a wave.

I think the media took

it and ran, like they do everything else.

It's just like, oh my God, oh my God, he's not dropping the baby, please.

Please. They blew it up into something it's not.

We know about it.

Misunderstood. Explain it. What don't we know about it? What should we know

about him we don't know?

All right, I'll tell you from the very beginning. Good.

He had such a grip on that child.

And if you look at it again, he's got that child so tightly held

under the armpits.

I'm showing it now.

Yeah, he's got it pretty tight under his arm.

The governance was up there, security was up there, other people. I took my

other children up there and did the same thing.

Like I said before, he's very proud of his children, you know.

And if you listen to his fans all night long, they're so adoring and so loving

and loyal.

And they'll be there all night.

They wanted to see the little one, and he showed them the little one.

Nothing inappropriate.

May not have been the best thing he's ever done in his life, but certainly

I think it was made too big a deal of.

Even now you're happy that you dangled him over the... Not happy that I dangled

him over the boundary, no. You're not happy. I'm happy that I let the kids

In spite of his admission that he was not happy about the incident, it still

not seem as troubling to Michael as it did to people around the world.

A point Martin Bashir made both in his TV special and in his comments on

primetime Thursday after the show aired.

He said that they are restricted. They are overly protected.

I was angry at the way his children were made to suffer.

What he said about Michael's parenting skills in the footage that was not aired

appears to paint an extremely different picture. And we must stress, What you're

about to see and hear happened during Bashir's final interview with Michael

after the incident with the baby on the Berlin hotel balcony.

One of the things that I noticed about you over the last year is your

relationship with your children. And I have to say to you, and I didn't know

before, and you haven't put on a front, your relationship with your children is

spectacular. Hello.

And in fact...

It almost makes me weep when I see you with them because your interaction with

them is just so natural, so loving, so caring.

Thank you so much. And everybody who ever comes into contact with you knows

that. I'm crazy about a diaper. I'm crazy about it. And I tell them.

I look into their eyes every day. I make sure I do it. I say, look at me. I love

you very much.

What they actually say to you is they love you and you say I love you more.

That's what you say every single time.

That's your phrase and I've heard it. I've heard it once. I've heard it a

million times.

Yeah, and they say such sweet things sometimes.

And I didn't tell them to say it.

They say it all the time. I pick them up and they say, Daddy, thank you for

giving me a brother.

All the time.

You know, I would like

to have more children.

You know what? If he called me tonight and said, let's have five more, in a

heartbeat. You would do it again. In a heartbeat.

In a heartbeat. Now, what could have persuaded one of the world's most

superstars to grant an interviewer and a camera crew entrance into his life?

Now, according to Jackson, It was to answer many of the important questions

tabloids and fans have been speculating about for years.

As you've seen, not all of those important answers made it on the air.

And as for the not -so -earth -shaking ones, well, they were edited out too,

like the whereabouts of Mr.

Jackson's former constant companion.

Where is Bubbles now?

Bubbles is...

He's with a caretaker with 40 to 50 other chimps because chimps, they get to

age, like teenage kids do, where they want to challenge their parents.

Like if your father tells you to do something, you go, why?

Why do I have to do it, Dad?

And chimps are very much like that, too. They'll challenge you. And it can

become dangerous in a way.

And if they get angry with you and decide to take you on, it's no match.

I mean, they're very, very strong.

They can take your finger off. They're very powerful.

But while Bubbles was living at Neverland, Bubbles, the other animals,

Michael were virtually inseparable.

Many people made fun of me with my animals, you know.

If I come home from a hard day at the studio and I come home to my deer or my

chimps, and I can hug them and they don't ask you anything, they don't

you know, they don't gossip. They just want a hug and some love.

And you get on with it. You know, where's the pizza?

Whip out the ice cream. Because the chimps, they love snacks.

And, you know, they run around and they help me clean the room and they help me

fix up things, you know. And their DNA is literally identical to ours if you

look in the microscope.

And they're amazing.

Chimps would help you clean the house? Yeah, yeah. They help me clean up my

room. They help me dust.

They do windows.

They bless the toilet after they use the bathroom.

You let the chimps use your own bathroom? Sure, yeah, of course.

Bubbles would go himself.

And he'd sit at the table and he'd pick up his spoon and his fork and eat. And

he's very polite and very intelligent.

While in Berlin with Jackson, Martin Bashir was invited to accompany Michael

his two children on a trip to the zoo.

But because someone had evidently tipped off the press, the paparazzi were out

in force, causing chaos and a potentially dangerous situation for the

family.

Do you know it took us three and a half hours to get in and out, and we spent

four minutes in front of the gorillas? It was chaos, Michael.

I was in the middle of it. Our cameraman fell over.

At one point, Prince got hurt by someone's umbrella.

Yes.

Do you really think it was worth the pain of three and a half hours for four

minutes in front of the gorilla?

Well, I'm not a horse seer of events. I'm not a super seer or a prophet of any

kind. I didn't know that was going to happen like that.

As you've seen and heard from Michael's behind -the -scenes camera of Bashir's

interview, Bashir seems to express a genuine concern for the welfare, of

Michael's children and raises the question as to Michael's apparent lapse

parental judgment.

Bashir comments, it was no kind of trip for two young children and everyone

could see it but Jackson himself.

But what Bashir doesn't include is Michael's explanation that Michael was

informed that the zoo would be closed during his visit.

I go to the zoo all the time. I go usually when they close it down.

And they told us this would be closed down.

And they didn't. They left the gates open and fans and people started pouring

in. In fact, what the owner said, because I was there, he actually said

view was at the end of the normal opening hours, he would have closed the

and then just opened it for you and your family.

But you decided not to go then. He wants to go in the day rather than... That's

not true.

Is that not true?

That's not true. That was what he said. I don't want to go in the day,

especially... I have a problem with the sun.

Well, it was winter in Germany, so it wasn't... Nighttime would have been much

cooler. Yeah.

It would have been better to have gone at night. Yeah.

So why didn't you?

I never knew that was the proposal.

I thought we had a slot and that was it.

This was just a misunderstanding from the zoo part and Michael's people, and

they thought the zoo was going to be closed, but it wasn't.

But that whole thing was not a big deal.

I mean, he goes through that all the time.

Coming up, Michael's video cameras capture a very revealing moment.

So they're so quick to call you strange and weird.

It's almost as if you're forced to be different.

Michael's father reacts to Bashir's special.

Well, one of the things that I can see this man tried to do, he tried to pin

something on me where I was real brutal.

What caused the surgery the other special didn't tell you about?

He was so badly burned on the top of his head. The whole top of his head caught

fire right in front of my eyes.

All when we return to the Michael Jackson interview.

The footage you were never meant to see.

It was the documentary that shocked the world and outraged the king of pop.

It hurts to be misunderstood.

Was Martin Bashir taking the Michael? It's about bringing out what you're

In a Sky One exclusive, we reveal the footage you were never meant to see.

Your relationship with your children is spectacular.

It almost makes me weep. All you want to do is bring some love and some joy.

The Michael Jackson interview, tonight, 9 o 'clock, only on Sky One.

we'd like to remind you that while Michael Jackson provided much of the

you are seeing tonight he has absolutely no editorial control over the content

of this program

In the past hour, you've seen a British journalist ask some tough questions.

What hurts you most?

When they lie.

They lie.

They complete lie.

And some tougher questions.

You had sex with Debbie.

I know that's difficult for me to say because you're so embarrassed.

You're about to hear Michael Jackson's family rally around him, voicing their

support. They can go and talk to these children all they want. They're not

to find anything. What they need to do is leave him alone.

And voicing their disagreement.

I hear Michael saying that he's lonely.

But back in those days, Michael had his brothers. He had all his brothers to

play with.

You've seen Michael's ex -wife come forward for the first time with

of emotion.

I've never seen him that happy.

And that's what made it wonderful for me.

And expressions of strength.

Do not leave my children. My children are with their father, where they're

supposed to be.

But most of all, you've seen Michael Jackson's own private cameras catch the

good. I think God outdid himself when he created children.

The bad.

If you dangle blanket over a balcony, you are going to be severely pitified.

The strange. You let the chimps use your own bathroom? Sure, yeah, of course.

Bubbles would go in itself.

And the strangely human.

I am Peter Pan.

Are you not your Michael Jackson?

I'm Peter Pan, my heart.

But what you've seen so far is only the beginning.

of the Michael Jackson interview, the footage you were never meant to see.

In addition

to revisiting the interviews with Michael Jackson that were contained in

special, we've also asked members of the Jackson family to comment.

on the information that the special chose to include.

While the Jacksons are a very supportive family, not all of what they have to

say is in complete agreement with Michael. And many of the comments you'll

have never been revealed publicly until now.

We try to get above all of this, the way of being united together. We don't like

what some of the things are being said out there, but when you're number one

there all over the world, you're...

Get those kind of pot shots at you at all times.

You've been so successful and you've amassed so much wealth.

You never need to work again.

And yet you don't seem to be able to enjoy it.

It seems that you're restricted somehow.

I enjoy it to my children.

But I'm talking about you.

You just don't seem to enjoy it.

Enjoy what?

Enjoy your success. Enjoy your wealth.

It's hard to... I can enjoy it behind my gates, but I can't go out and enjoy it

because it becomes work all over again.

Working has been Michael's life from the time he was five years old.

Oh, darling, I was blind to let you go.

And as we've already seen, missing out on his childhood continues to affect him

to this very day.

You often seem very lonely.

Is that true?

I used to be very lonely.

Painful and so on.

You have no idea.

I used to walk the streets.

Little people would talk to me.

I hear Micah saying that he's lonely.

But back in those days, Micah had his brothers. He had all his brothers to

with. And so, you know.

And the kids that he brought all the candy around, he'd buy so much candy and

the kids would be in a circle, standing around in a circle.

And they'd all be eating candy off the allowance I had given him.

But one thing he enjoyed was to see those kids eating that candy and he'd be

laughing. Once you're surrounded by your family, by musicians, by people wanting

to be your friend, you were an international superstar.

How can you say you had no friends?

Because those people...

spoke to me on a language on another level that was musical, that was

entertainment, but to get away from that, to separate oneself from that, and

try to discover the fun things about life.

When do you feel that?

When do I feel alone?

I mean, I can be, you know, usually in hotels when there's I also

have friends chanting, you're out in the street, you know, losing sleeping bags,

and they're chanting, they love you and everything, and you can't get out.

You feel trapped inside.

And you just cry, and you feel lonely, you know?

And there's all that love out there, but you really do feel trapped and lonely

that you can't get out. And if you go to a bookstore, if you go out, if you go

to a club, which I don't like clubs, you know,

Every book you buy, they wonder, why are you buying this? Why is Michael Jackson

buying this?

Why is he reading this?

Or you go to the club. As soon as you go in there, every song is my song. I want

to hear my music.

And everybody starts chanting for me to dance.

So it becomes a show all over again. So you can't go anywhere.

So wherever you go, you know.

That's not much of a life, is it? I know.

It's difficult.

And I don't want to complain like I'm complaining because it comes with the

territory, but I don't think people understand the other side that comes

it. So they're so quick to call you strange and weird, but it's almost as if

you're forced to be different because it's not normal life, you know?

I can do the normal thing, go to the store and buy a piece of bread, a piece

candy or something. He can't do that.

So that will cause you to become a recluse or to sort of...

be withdrawn do you not sometimes wish that you could go to the local store and

of course buy yourself some food and come back or go to the market like one

those markets and pick one of those carts and throw some food in there and

down the aisle i would love to do that can you do that no of course not of

course not i tried in uh every the whole place stops you know

everybody's chanting and getting an autograph.

It's hard.

It doesn't work.

That's why I love putting on disguise.

One of the disguises Michael would wear in public was from his music video,

Ghost, a makeup process that took several hours and would turn him into a

completely unrecognizable and very large white man.

I sit on a bench at Disneyland.

I sit there and I learn so much.

Watching people study people's characters.

That's what I like. I like going inside.

That's sending performance.

You can tell right away when an artist, if you can read on her face when she's

dancing, she's counting one and two and three and four and five and six and six.

But when you, that's the wrong concept for dance.

Dancing is about feeling, not about thinking. So when they count, they're

thinking.

To feel, become the bass, become the drums, become the guitar strings.

You just become a oneness, you know?

That's very important.

But that's real.

But that's Michael Jackson talking as a performer.

I love performing. But that's not... I wish I could sleep on stage.

But that's not Michael Jackson the person.

One of the most compelling and revealing lines of questioning that Martin Bashir

pursued had to do with the strict discipline that Michael and his brothers

endured at the hands of their father.

Unfortunately, this is footage that Mr. Bashir and his producers have not

allowed us to show you.

But we can tell you that it was a very emotional description of beatings with

belts and the cords from iron.

You remember when you said to me that you just wanted to run away from your

father? I hid. I used to hide.

Well, one of the things I can see this man tried to do, he tried to pin

something on me where I was real brutal.

And raising these guys, Jermaine and all the rest of them, they all got

whiffings. But they didn't get no beatings, you know. They got whiffings.

We were disciplined in the way in which he knew. And during that time...

All children and parents at the time, with their kids, we had to be in before

the lights were on at night and we had to ask for things.

And I thought it was great because it allowed us to become what we became.

We never got on drugs. We never got in trouble.

And I see the difference from my upbringing as when I came to California

friends as I went to school with how they would curse their parents out and

the door and disrespect them. Joseph didn't beat them or?

anything like that. We just disciplined them out of love. And the Bible says if

you love a child, you will discipline them.

The discussion of the strict discipline and verbal abuse by Michael's father

went on for almost eight minutes in Mr. Beshear's finished special.

But what he did not include was a short but very revealing comment from Michael

about his father.

He hurt me when he was little, but he's a genius. The man is a genius.

At the same time, he is a genius.

He really is.

But, Michael, he injured you when you were a child.

Yeah, but look what came out of him.

Maybe I wouldn't have the affection for the kids that I have today and wanted to

help them. When we return, the police investigation that put Michael on the

offensive. At every opportunity, the media has dissected and manipulated

allegations to reach their own conclusions.

And Debbie Rowe finally reaches her limit.

I'm tired of the lies.

I'm tired of the bull.

The devastating disease that Michael claims turned him porcelain white.

I was putting on cream to make myself white. It's not true. I did it right.

And friends of Michael who were forced to leave their home.

All when the Michael Jackson interview.

The footage you were never meant to see.

Without a doubt, one of the most controversial topics of Michael

is his relationship with children. The scandals and rumored surrounding

allegations made against Jackson are the subject of seemingly endless

speculation. As we told you before, Michael Jackson has no editorial control

over the content of this program.

What you see and hear is intended to be an unbiased presentation that allows you

to draw your own conclusions.

Some years ago, you yourself were about to embark on a tour.

And allegations were made about you and children.

What about 1993? What happened? What was Michael Jackson doing?

They don't know.

They don't know.

All that thought.

I would never be. I would slit my wrist if I were hurt.

He would never hurt a child. Never.

It's not in him.

It's... No way.

He would never do anything inappropriate with a child.

It's the furthest thing from his mind.

When those allegations came, in 93, I think it was,

devastated.

I mean, talk about going for the jugular.

At every opportunity, the media has dissected and manipulated these

to reach their own conclusions.

I ask all of you to wait and hear the truth before you label or condemn me.

I am.

watched Michael after they accused him of that child molestation.

But at first he was a little lonely and all, but he never stopped because he

knew it wasn't the truth, and he never stopped loving children.

No, that's what I admire about him. He keeps going.

He's not going to give up, and he's going to still give to all of us. I just

know it.

And brochures will come and go, you know.

Michael will live forever.

Apparently, there's some confusion with sleeping in bed.

My favorite thing to do is to sit in bed and watch TV.

If you're coming over, take your shoes off, get on the bed, or watch the TV.

My house, right?

And they tore this house apart.

They went in my mother's safe.

They tore it up, and they went in my mother's hyperpressure pills, and they

looking at, I mean, just what were they looking for? They were trying and trying

to try to get some crap on Michael that was not true.

What hurts you most?

When they lie.

The lies.

The complete lies.

I mean, it hurts.

And it hurts me because I know there's children out there who has to hear that

crap. Why do people do that when all you have done is brought

some of the most beautiful music, most beautiful popular music that many of us

have ever heard?

Why do people want to judge you if you've done, all you've done is been an

artist and brought wonderful music?

With success, people become jealous.

It hurts to be misunderstood.

No matter how much you try to put people on track, there will still be some

judgment when you say that it's so far from the truth.

Following the broadcast of Mr. Bashir's special, the speculation about what went

on in Jackson's private life was once again headline news, primarily due to

story of Gavin, a young man who had reportedly been dying of cancer.

Gavin was somebody who was diagnosed with cancer.

Doctors gave him, I think, three weeks or one month to live.

One of his last wishes was to meet Michael, a request fulfilled through Los

Angeles businessman Jamie Masada.

Then he said to me, under his breath, he said, I want to meet Michael Jackson.

At that point, I didn't know Michael Jackson.

And I just came out of the room, I started crying.

I didn't know what to do.

I called Neverland. I said, is there any way you can get a chance to call the

kid? They're not coming next day. And I said, Gavin, he had a little smile on

his face.

I said, Gavin, what's going on? He said, Michael, call me.

Gavin and his family formed an immediate bond with Jackson, creating an

atmosphere that many believe played a large part in Gavin's recovery.

You know, two and a half years ago, the doctor, they said, two more weeks, he's

dead.

Now he's alive.

His appearance on the Bashir special showed a seemingly healthy and happy

man, clearly very fond of Jackson. And while Mr. Bashir did touch on Gavin's

amazing recovery, many believe that the real focus was on Michael's relationship

with the young man, especially the revelation that they had spent the night

the same room.

The thing that upsets me right now, the reason I'm giving you the interview,

because Gavin called me, he was crying on the phone.

He went in gas station. The kid in gas station, they start kidding.

Oh, you are the kid doing this with Michael. You slept with Michael.

It's horrible to do to a kid. This kid's been through life.

He's been through horrible life so far. Since Mr. Bashir's documentary aired,

Gavin and his mother have gone into seclusion after being bombarded by

for interviews from tabloids around the world.

This statement released to the press by Gavin's mother says, I'm appalled at the

way in which my son has been exploited by Martin Bashir.

The relationship that Michael has with my three children is a beautiful, loving

father -sons -and -daughter one.

To my children and me, Michael is a part of our family. In addition, she is

considering action against Mr. Bashir for including Gavin in his special

parental consent.

It can only take a life for so long.

And I've reached my limit.

And that's why I'm doing this.

I'm not here to defend my body.

I'm here to tell you the truth.

I didn't really know how you behave with the people who come to the ranch

and come to your home.

I hadn't seen it.

And you were the most generous person.

But I looked around here yesterday.

And some of the people really appreciated it.

But others were greedy.

Others couldn't help themselves.

Do you sometimes despair of human nature?

Yes.

One of the topics repeatedly brought up in Martin Bashir's interview is the same

one that has been the subject of speculation by countless tabloids, talk

and comic monologues for over 20 years.

Michael Jackson's changing appearance.

Having surgery or changes or whatever, cosmetic surgery or anything

like that, people have that sort of thing in this country all the time. All

time. People go on a weekly basis to have things changed. Most celebrities,

movie stars, you know.

So why is it such an issue that you do that?

But the fact that they said I...

Like I'm overly obsessed with it. It's not true.

The things they've said that I've done are not true.

I haven't had my eyes done. I haven't had my cheekbones done.

I haven't had my lips done.

I haven't had my chin done.

That's a lie.

In the final interview eight months later, Martin Bashir is still doggedly

pursuing rumors of Michael's plastic surgery.

An area of his life Bashir said he felt Michael had been less than honest about.

Yeah, but even the shape of your face has changed.

Do

you

think that people do go too far with plastic surgery, generally?

Do you think it's become... So why are you so defensive when people say Mick

Jagger's had one?

Paul McCartney may have had one. Oh, Michael Jackson's had one.

They don't do it that way. What do they do? They just pick on me like I'm the

only one that does it.

That's why.

So if people said, well, actually, Michael's the same as everyone else,

wouldn't upset you so much. It would upset me so much.

You know, if you want to have a facelift, you have a facelift. Yeah, if

you happy.

Regardless of your opinion about the extent of Michael's plastic surgery, one

fact is clear.

Martin Bashir's TV special made only passing reference to one of the most

noticeable differences in Michael's appearance.

Bashir quoted people as saying that when Michael Jackson was a boy, he was a

black kid.

And now as an adult, he looks like a white man.

Which was a rumor.

They said I was putting on cream to make myself lighter. That's not true. I've

been a writer. You have a condition.

Vitiligo is a medical condition that Jackson claims has afflicted him for

than 20 years. This disfiguring skin disease affects nearly 2 % of the

population and strips all pigmentation from the skin. The result is not just

pale, but porcelain white.

The beginnings of the vitiligo started happening relatively early.

He even was trying to hide it from me.

He tried to hide it for quite a while.

You know, he'd always try to cover with makeup and even out his skin tone and

everything until it just got so extensive. I mean, it's all over his

We were always trying to hide it and cover it for the longest time until he

had to tell Oprah and tell the world, listen, I'm not trying to be white. I

a skin disease.

The loss of pigment exposes vitiligo sufferers to great risk of skin cancer,

requiring constant shade from the sun and thick makeup or sunblock to lessen

exposure. You know, in the beginning, I tried to cover the light spots to the

darkest part of his skin, but then it became so extensive that we had to go

the lighter part of the skin because his whole body was reacting. He'd have to

be in complete, full body makeup every inch of his body.

So it was easier to make the transition to him being to the lighter shape that

he is.

But for Michael, one of the most painful side effects of vitiligo is the

reminder of the earlier skin trauma that humiliated him as a child.

You talked about how when you went through adolescence, you had a terrible

And in fact, I had a look at some pictures.

of you during that period.

And you did have a lot of spots.

Yeah.

Yeah. And being shy as I am and was getting even worse, it was

terrible. It was like a disease.

Perhaps the most startling omission regarding Michael's history of plastic

surgery came during a discussion of the procedures that Michael admits to

having.

You're saying you've only ever had one.

Piece of surgery on your nose.

Two. You've had two?

This is where the TV show stops.

But had they included Michael's answer from just ten seconds earlier, they

have allowed him to remind us of a serious injury that severely affected

appearance.

No, no, no. I was severely burned. Yeah.

But apart from having that surgery because of obviously the injury of the

January 27, 1984.

Michael was shooting a commercial that attempted to duplicate a concert

performance.

During the last take, a planned pyrotechnic explosion went wrong and

Michael's hair on fire.

He was so badly burned.

On the top of his head caught fire right in front of my eyes.

And I couldn't do anything about it. I couldn't get to him on time.

But Nico, Marlon Brando, was able to push away the barricades and jump

on him and put out the fire with his bare hands.

He will have nursing and medical personnel on call 24 hours a day.

Due to his very excellent health and his very strong personal and religious

commitments, he will have as excellent a recovery as is possible.

Michael was rushed to the hospital, where he was treated for second and

degree burns.

He later underwent skin graft surgery in an attempt to repair the damage.

But as we noted, as severe as this incident was, it was completely ignored

Bashir. You've done nothing to your cheeks?

Uh, no, no, no.

These cheekbones?

Yeah. No.

You haven't had any insert? No.

My father got... What about your dimple?

Can we get on with this plastic surgery garbage?

This is tabloid stuff. Well... You'll be young. I know. You're a respected

journalist. Well, I know. The problem is... You're getting tabloid. When we

return, we'll take another look at some of the answers that were never heard.

They call me weird overnight.

strange, wacko.

You know, they said I'm a girl, homosexual.

He wants to buy the Elephant Man bone.

He's been in a hyperbaric chamber. None of that stuff is true.

And some of the differences in opinion.

So you're happy you did it now?

Yeah, because I've shared... Even though you've been attacked? Even though

people in America say you shouldn't look after your own children?

Yeah, but a lot of people said, leave him alone.

Shut the hell up.

All caught on Michael Jackson's own camera.

When we return to the Michael Jackson interview, the footage you were never

meant to see.

qualities of respected journalism is objectivity. Now, as you may have heard

several recent news stories, one of Michael Jackson's prime complaints about

reporting featured in Martin Bashir's documentary and subsequent interviews

the press was his lack of objectivity.

As we've already seen, some of Mr. Bashir's comments that made the air

be quite different than opinions he expressed in Jackson's behind -the

footage.

About Michael's ranch, Mr. Bashir's on -air comment was,

One of the most disturbing things is the fact that a lot of disadvantaged

children go to Neverland. It's a dangerous place for a vulnerable child

But what he said behind the scenes was this.

I was here yesterday and I saw it.

And it's nothing short of a spiritually kind thing.

This comment about Michael's method of raising children was included on

special.

They are restricted.

They are overly protected.

I was angry at the way his children were made to suffer.

But this was not.

Your relationship with your children is spectacular.

Hello.

And in fact, it almost makes me weep when I see you with them.

Another of Jackson's complaints about the documentary is the non -inclusion of

certain statements that he feels are pertinent to objective reporting.

Like when Bashir devoted almost... Eight minutes to the abuse by Michael's

father? You remember when you said to me that you just wanted to run away from

your father?

I hid.

I used to hide.

But did not include this short and revealing comment.

He hurt me when he was little, but he's a genius. The man is a genius.

On Michael's taking his children to the zoo, Bashir says, it was no kind of trip

for two young children, and everyone could see it but Jackson himself.

But what you don't hear, is Michael's response.

And as far as

probing for the truth about Michael's changing appearance, the subject of

vitiligo was virtually ignored.

And the severe burns and reconstructive surgery were never mentioned at all.

Regardless of whether you feel that Michael Jackson is correct in his

that Martin Bashir's documentary was not a true representation of the interviews

that actually took place, there is one question that many people share.

How could Michael Jackson, a 44 -year -old man who has spent most of his life

the spotlight, have allowed himself to open up to a virtual stranger?

This footage from Michael's camera may give you a better understanding.

It was really, really special.

It seems to me that through history, people, they really want to make someone

big, and they want to be, oh, this person is so talented, and we've got to

them godlike, and they have to be perfect.

And then as soon as they're there, they get more joy in tearing someone down.

Eventually, when you talk and you say it like it really is, you just light up.

That's what I meant.

It's about bringing out what you're about.

That whole special, it was just an attempt to tear him

apart. And he trusted. He trusted Martin Boucher.

They took this thing back to the studio, and they took a lot of things out.

And the way this thing was narrated, it was just not fair.

And

then

slowly he started bringing his own opinion into the picture.

As a reporter, as a news, I like to see the truth.

then I'll decide what my take would be on it.

After being on his turtle, I'm being... Oh, my God, yeah.

No, no, it's not just you, though. You can see that.

Rashears will come and go, you know?

Michael will live forever. In everybody's heart.

If indeed...

This video, whatever it was that was shot, is supposed to be about Michael.

Then it will show him as a caring, loving, understanding

father, person, human being.

Because that's what he is.

No matter what you may feel about what you've seen on this program, it's hard

deny. that Michael Jackson is a complex and controversial subject who elicits a

passionate response from virtually everyone who comes in contact with him,

whether through his music or his private life.

In the past two hours, our only goal has been to present an objective view of

events, showing them as they actually occurred and allowing you to draw your

conclusion. But we do feel it's appropriate to leave you with one more

information.

Mr. Bashir is quoted as saying, Michael Jackson is a marvelous father to his own

children, and I never saw anything that would qualify as a criminal activity.

This comes from an interview dated just a few days ago.

Thanks for joining us, everyone. I'm Maury Povich.

Good night.

Do you sometimes despair of human nature?

Yeah.

Yes, of course.

Can you ever do anything that's right?

No.

No.

No, no, no.

No matter what you do, there's always somebody that will say something about

They have the opinion, you know?

No matter what you do.

No matter how good your intentions are, there's always some jerk, some

mean -spirited person to try to bring you down.

All you want to do is bring some love and some joy, you know.

That's all.

Granada, who made the Living with Michael Jackson programme originally

on ITV, maintains that it was a fair and balanced portrait of Michael Jackson

and stands by it.