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[Aparna Nancherla] If you don't have anxiety,

the way I would describe it

is like there's an edgy improv group in your brain.

And it just needs a one word suggestion--

To spin like countless scenarios

that no one's comfortable with.

[Joe List] Are you guys mad at me? I'm getting a weird vibe here.

I feel uncomfortable.

I'm nervous. It's a very small space.

I'm self-conscious about my ass as well,

so I feel weird with people behind me.

[Baron Vaughn] Some people think that a lot of comedians

are, um, more damaged, you know, more fucked up than the average person.

I don't necessarily believe that.

I think that comedians are the ones who live in it.

[Marc Maron] I don't know how to have fun.

How do you have fun?

How do you guys do it?

Like, I don't think I would have come to this show.

All right. Good morning, everybody.

I've got some bad news.

OK, literally haven't even said what the bad news is yet.

Let's--

I love bad news.

I'm constantly telling myself you've got everybody fooled.

You're not that funny.

Any minute now, everybody's going

to wake up and realize how bad you suck.

And so there's this fear that I can't ever truly be myself

because if people knew the real me, they wouldn't like me.

[Tiffany] Chloe, you didn't even look to see if a car was coming, Honey.

Look for cars, Honey.

In general, I feel like when they're in the house,

they're safe.

I can see them and take care of them.

When we're out here, there's lots of elements.

It's like every single nightmare... scary movie

that I've ever seen in my life.

And I just have really dark pictures in my brain.

It's almost like I can see it happening.

For so long, I struggled in silence

about my anxiety, my depression.

There wasn't a word for it.

I didn't know how to describe it.

And once I started talking about it on the internet,

I was met with so much love and support.

And it was shocking to me.

Keys, backpack. You guys got your backpacks?

Boo!

What are you doing here?

We get to hang out today.

Awesome.

Do you think your husband put the car seats in right?

I think so.

I hope so.

Why?

I was just thinking about car accidents and stuff

and just wanted to make sure that it's safe.

That's all.

[Mark] If I do things alone, I'm usually OK.

But it's the going out in the world that's the hard part.

I get a lot of social anxiety.

Is this person going to hate me?

Am I annoying this person?

Am I a burden?

I'll probably look like a normal average Joe.

But I'm really going, shut up.

You're an idiot.

Take it easy.

No, but I think that guy does hate you.

Oh, shut up. You're crazy.

I don't know.

He wasn't a fan.

You see the way he looked at you?

You guys ever do this one?

You guys ever leave the house without headphones?

Phew.

Thoughts are not good.

My God, this whole time, I thought I loved music.

Turns out I just hate my brain.

Just being attacked all day long by this insecurity playlist

on shuffle.

Ah, what are you doing with your life?

You drink too much. Going to die alone.

You call that a penis?

Ah...

The anxiety I have is wrapped up in being disappointing.

I-- Literally every day, I'm like, I got to quit.

I should quit stand up.

I have this fantasy about being the funniest guy

and produce at the Kroger or the

Publix in fricking Chattanooga.

- Excuse me. - Sorry.

No problem.

I recently figured out that I have anxiety.

I've had it for my entire life, but it's really easy

to confuse having anxiety with just the fact of being black.

There's a lot of similarities.

You know, like the thought, "Anyone could kill me at any time,"

is a real thought.

[Eva] I definitely feel sometimes like, wow, I got this brain.

I wonder what it would be like to step into someone else's

brain for a day or even like 20 minutes

and see how it feels inside a different brain

because maybe I'm crazy and maybe it's just like this

everywhere.

But I do feel like my brain is sometimes

lightly trying to kill me.

But also I love my brain for other reasons.

So it's nice.

I like having a brain that's fucked up and creative and cool.

Um... My God, cool.

Yeah, my brain is super cool.

You good?

Yeah, no, I'm fine. I was thinking of--

I'm going to dinner later tonight.

And I was thinking, like, what am I going to get for my side?

And then I was like, do I want French fries?

Do I want mashed potatoes?

And then I realized, it doesn't even really matter.

You know what I'm saying?

Because once you actually eat it,

it's all basically mashed potatoes after that, you know.

And then I was like, well, maybe I should get a salad instead

because I've been gaining a little bit of weight.

But if I'm going to spend money in,

I don't want to spend it on leaves.

And so it's like--

I'm sorry. What was your question?

Whoa.

My anxiety videos get in the tens of millions of views.

And people are like, that's me.

When I go to my email, if I just type in in the search bar,

the word "anxiety"...

...there's so many.

Everyone's suffering.

All of these people reach out to me

because they've seen my videos.

And it feels like everybody in the world has anxiety,

and nobody knows what the F to do about it.

[Joe] I have I think every kind of anxiety you can have.

General anxiety, social anxiety, panic disorder,

obsessive compulsive disorder.

I got it all.

I'm a real-- I'm the full ball of anxiety.

My whole life and mind, everything

is sort of fear and anxiety based.

It's almost like that angel devil thing.

But there's just a devil.

It just feels like a mean version of me

sitting on my own shoulder.

I read this.

Human beings have up to 70,000 thoughts a day.

Did you guys know that? I thought it was like nine.

I had no idea!

70,000 is too many.

I don't think I have 70,000 thoughts a day.

I feel like I have four thoughts a day.

They just repeat 70,000 times.

My four thoughts are: "My parents are going to die.

I'm horny. Is that cancer? Is this funny?"

Is this funny? Those are the only four thoughts I ever have in my life.

Oh, my God.

I would kill to be less anxious.

It's exhausting.

I remember I took a Xanax once.

I don't know why I had it.

But I just took one.

And I remember being like, is this what normal people feel like?

Oh, my God. It was-- I was like skipping down

the street and high-fiving mailmen and stuff.

It was amazing.

So I'm like, my whole goal is just get back to that somehow

naturally, which I know is probably never going to happen.

But that would be nice.

I'm really nervous.

Today is my first day with my new therapist.

I'm nervous about--

I'm excited though, because

I'm desperate to feel different

than I've been feeling for a really long time.

I'm hoping that I can be a better mom to my kids.

I feel like I'm ruining their childhood.

To put on my jewelry.

I'm going to wear this bracelet today.

It seems like the perfect day for it.

You put essential oil on this pad.

And when you get stressed, you can sniff it.

The therapist is going to be like, are you OK?

I notice you're smelling yourself a lot.

Let's go.

I forgot my keys.

I'm so sorry.

Everything's fine.

Everything's going to be fine. We're ju--

It's therapy.

Everything's fine.

OK, wish me luck, Peta.

I think it would be wonderful to be

able to just enjoy life and enjoy the little moments

and experience some emotions other than fear.

A tiny part of me wonders, though,

if I wasn't a crazy, anxious, overthinking, worrying

people-pleaser, who the heck would I be?

How was the drive?

The drive was nerve-racking.

Was it really?

Yeah, I just don't like driving.

I don't like driving on the interstate.

Did you drive or did somebody else?

- I drove. - You did?

- Yeah. - OK.

And I was just nervous.

- Yeah? - Are these for crying?

Sure, yeah.

I usually have that effect on people, so.

- If it happens, don't worry. - OK.

So I'm going to take notes while we chat.

- OK. - Um...

So you can start wherever you want,

but you're going to tell me everything.

So where do you want to start?

I am afraid that I am going to throw myself

into early death because of all the worrying that I'm doing.

OK.

I am scared of getting murdered.

I'm scared of robbers.

I have a horrendous fear of the ocean.

OK.

I hate the water.

I hate not knowing what's lurking under my feet.

The unknown.

Yeah.

Um, I think about my kids breaking their neck

and getting paralyzed a lot.

I can picture their neck being broken when they're jumping

on the couches and stuff.

OK, and going back to that, for fear of something

happening to your kids, what do you do as a result?

I say no to fun things.

OK, yeah.

And if we do end up in a place where they're having fun,

I'm just constantly yelling out warnings like be safe.

Don't do this. No, we're not going to do that.

Be careful.

I give them probably way too many talks

about getting kidnapped.

- OK. - That's going to F them up.

Let's do this.

What else are we doing?

[Joe] It's definitely difficult when people don't understand it,

and they go, just stop worrying.

It's a weird-- Because you have to be like, well,

I have a mental disorder.

It feels like it's not always that respected as a thing.

[host] Put your hands together right now for Mr. Joe List.

Everybody, Joe List.

[Joe] But comedy is completely controlled by me.

So your anxiety is sort of at bay for that moment at least.

And you sort of feel worthy.

I feel strong.

And I'm doing this thing.

My Aunt Betty, she's a big source of my anxiety.

I don't know if you guys ever met her.

She's um-- She was a babysitter, late '80s, early '90s.

And um, one time, she was babysitting me.

She said this to me. This is a true story.

I was eight years old. This is where my anxiety began.

I was eight. And she said, "Joe, my biggest fear..."

She told me her biggest fear.

I didn't ask her what her biggest fear was.

I was eight years old.

I didn't give a shit about her fears, but she told me anyway.

She said, "My biggest fear is that when I go to the bathroom,

there'll be a man hiding behind the shower curtain waiting to get me."

And I was like, well, that's my biggest fear now also.

Yeah, I have goals.

I just like to waste my time in getting to them.

I love to procrastinate, love to waste time,

learn to embrace it as a strength.

Does anyone identify as a professional crastinator?

Yeah, yeah.

And again, don't even make noise.

Just think about it, and then don't do anything.

People, they're like, but you're so low key

and you're like so laid back even in your delivery. Like, it just doesn't--

You don't strike me as an anxious person.

But I think in that sense, it is.

It demonstrates how internal it can be.

It's so much a part of your brain

that you're just like used to it, and you're like,

I don't know what an alternative would

be because it takes up so much space on a regular basis.

I do experience fairly profound dread over nothing.

Like-- It just seems to be a frequency I operate at.

Like um, you know, I'll wake up, and immediately just be like,

God, got to make breakfast.

And then I got to see my friend at noon.

God, like, why that intensity?

And those are things that you should want to do.

But I just operate like everything

becomes this sort of hassle.

I don't do things.

I don't do stuff.

I don't know why I don't do stuff.

I kind of know why.

All right, example...

...I got an opportunity to see the Rolling Stones.

I was given tickets to see the Rolling

Stones, the first date of their last stadium tour, San Diego.

The first day, I was given tickets on the field.

And the day I was given those tickets,

my first thought was like, fucking parking is going to--

When you have a brain like this, like mine

or like a neurotic, anxious person, it's always a negative.

You're never sort of like, that's going to be great.

In the shower this morning, I was thinking,

"I'm in the shower too long."

So it's like, I'm in the shower too long.

I'm stressed about even taking a shower.

It's like, I got to take a shower.

I only have this much time. I got to take a shower.

And then I'm in the shower, I'm like, I shouldn't have taken a shower.

I shouldn't have taken a shower.

There's all these other things that have to be done.

And I'm sitting here taking a shower, wasting water.

Wasting water while there's other things to be done.

And I'm like, wait a minute, why don't I just take a shower?

Like, I got to take a shower.

Does anybody with anxiety ever take your kids to the park?

It, like, makes me crazy.

Especially when there's other kids,

Like, I'm just so afraid that they're going to hurt themselves,

or they're going to get hit by another kid.

Like, I can't even relax.

I'm not even trying to be funny.

I dread going to the park.

And I wish I wasn't like this.

Do you want to know how crazy I am?

I bring a taser with me to the park in case anybody

tries to kidnap my kids.

Why am I like this?

Here we are, my West Village apartment

bought it, homeowner.

Uh, if you want to take a look in here and horrify yourself.

Um, I don't know when that's from.

But it's about two years old, and I just keep it in there just

to remind myself.

Stay humble.

I'm a big cocoon guy. Close the door, close the shades, TV,

internet, the whole thing.

Uh, booze, lockers. There's no space in this goddamn town

so you just fill up all your winter clothing

bursting at the seams.

Look at that, falling out everywhere.

Large TV. This was a gift. Thank God.

record player, Lenny Bruce.

New Orleans. You gotta remember where you came from.

Just a young boy from Tremé with dreams and plastic

on my mattress because that was a hell of a bedwetter.

For me, it was being a kid and making my mom make up

an excuse to not go out.

So your friends would be like, "Hey, can Mark come over and play?"

And I was like--

so my mom would be like, "He can't. He's in trouble with me."

And I was like, "yeah".

I hated who I was.

All right.

This is a fun note.

This is an anxiety blanket.

This weighs 15 pounds.

And if you put it on you, it feels like a hug.

How sad is that?

Careful.

Chloe, are you OK?

Please be careful.

Every time they jump off, it's hard to breathe.

I'm a little sweaty.

Kaiden. OK, care-- Bub, when you land.

Yeah.

My son loves to do flips now, actual flips.

And all I can think about is him getting paralyzed, obviously.

It happens all the time with kids on trampolines.

Are you having fun?

I don't want them to see me freaking out

because I'm afraid it's going to ruin their experience.

But I'm dying.

And I have to sit by the exit so that I can see if somebody is

trying to walk out with my kid.

Because there's so much kidnapping and trafficking going

on in the world.

That if my kids are attached to me or I

can see them at all times, and it's fine.

I could fight off the kidnapper.

Do you avoid anything?

Like, do you avoid certain social situations?

Tell me more.

I avoid any social situation where

there are lots of people like a house party.

- OK. - We don't go.

Like, I'm constantly worried how people are perceiving me.

OK.

And I'm afraid, like, before I go out on stage

that I'm going to forget everything

and look stupid and just make it worse. And--

OK. Um, in the past or currently, have you

ever had any fears related to contamination?

- I can't eat or drink after anybody... - OK.

...husband and kids included.

Um, because you're afraid of getting sick with something, or is it disgust?

- It's disgust. - OK.

What else?

I'm afraid that I'm going to have a brain aneurysm

at any moment and just go.

I've done a lot of research on those

so that I could be prepared.

You can be prepared for an aneurysm?

- Yes. - Tell me--

The signs to look out for, you'll hear a pop in your head.

And immediately, as soon as you hear the pop,

you don't question it. You just call 911 right away.

Have you done that yet?

Have you called 911 or anything?

- No. - OK, good.

But, well, I called 911 when my son had a bloody nose.

And they showed up and were pissed.

[Mark] Me and my pal, Joe List, fellow comedian, we

took a road trip one day, and just really hit it off.

It was a five-hour drive.

We didn't know each other.

We just talked about everything.

I feel like we're trying to be comedians together in New York.

And he was struggling. I was struggling.

And we helped each other.

And then he said, "I want to start a podcast.

Will you do it with me?"

And I said, "sure".

People don't give you enough credit. You really listen.

- I'm a listener. - You really listen.

You're late. You lie.

You're just a genuinely bad person.

But you listen.

- You can really listen. - I'm a listener.

[Mark] The beauty of us doing a pod together

is I don't have to explain anxiety because he's

a fucking wacko as well.

I'm like, man, I was feeling like this.

He doesn't go, "wait, what do you mean?"

Why would you feel like that?

He's just like, "yeah, totally.

I get it."

A lot of people have been writing negative comments

saying that we're not as big as we should be.

So we're taking the podcast to the streets,

and we're going to get some new fans the old fashioned way.

Let's go make some new fans.

Hey, guys. You guys, uh--

Do you like podcasts?

Jesus Christ.

Podcasts, man. We're good, man.

I recommend going to therapy because I

recommend doing things I was told Black people do not do.

So therapy, doing it.

Eating blueberries, delicious.

Uh, skiing, don't think so.

I cannot trust a sport that wants me to be at the top

of the mountain to start.

That's its own sport.

I'll be down here in the Jacuzzi. Um...

I like knowing why I do the things I do.

That's why I like going to therapy.

I like knowing what makes me tick, what informs my decisions.

Because I want to know these things about myself.

I want to know myself before I am...

...that's right, inevitably shot

Because if the police don't get me, mass shooters will.

And all I'm saying is you don't want

to be bleeding to death in the street, going,

I never figured out intimacy.

I think a lot of comedians come to comedy

because when they were children, it was the only thing that they

could do to have power.

Making someone laugh means that you have power over them.

And I grew up in a neighborhood, so my home life

was relatively dangerous.

There was addiction and there was abuse.

And so it was kind of a minefield.

I was scared to be at home. I spent a lot of time alone.

And when I wasn't alone, I was trying

to navigate around certain situations, however,

being able to diffuse the tension.

To make someone laugh is to make someone happy.

So then if I could do that, I knew I was safe.

That was my big fear when I was a kid, wetting my pants.

Because if you're a kid, you get scared enough.

You can just urinate right in your pants.

That's like a weird mind body connection I never understood.

Like your brain is like, I'm terrified.

And your bladder is like, we'll go ahead and piss then.

And then your brain's like, that didn't help at all.

And your bladder was like, that's all we know how to do.

We just wanted to let you guys know that we were helping.

Most of my material originates from anxiety

because it's something going, I hated that.

That made me feel weird. I didn't like that.

And that's where the comedy comes from.

That's what George Carlin said, every joke

started with something's wrong here.

And I'm going to tell people about it.

These are fun.

These are cue cards from late night shows

I've done like Conan or Fallon or Colbert.

This is actually my first one

from 2013, Conan, February 20th,

biggest night of my life.

It was a magical moment, unbelievable-- late night

TV debut.

And as you can see, this is more broad

doing like, racial, Jewish, gay.

I needed this on muscle memory because I was just

in this weirdo zone.

I was floating. I didn't know where I was.

And it was horrifying but amazing

and riveting all at the same time.

Jews are all about living on.

That's when I thought, man, Jews must

be really jealous of gay people because gay people can't even

reproduce, yet, they keep popping up.

That's amazing.

That's incredible. No other group can do that.

It's like a superpower, you know?

Like Jews are sitting around.

Like, you got to marry a Jew. You got to marry a Jew.

And gays are like, we'll be fine.

And then when it ended, it was like, I said,

a dream come true, which it wasn't planned.

That just came out just out of me because I was just

and then Conan came over, and I was so keyed up and so confident

that it went well that I took his tie

and dabbed my forehead just out of like, fuck it, let's be funny.

This is five years later.

Get more depth. I've delved in.

You got eye contact, introvert, therapy.

So I'm now starting to really open up and talk about how weird

I am and how much of a mess I am.

Comedy, comedy, jokes, jokes.

A lot of bad thoughts.

The paper is evil, so you gotta get away from the paper.

And I said that I'll use the pen as a microphone, which

is also embarrassing.

I'm going to put a sock on.

I feel bad about my disgusting hoofs just clomping around.

What about a sandal?

Out of all the things you write, 7% work.

And then out of that, you keep five.

Yeah, so that's why it takes so long to build material.

That's why everybody's so annoying when they go,

"you got any new stuff?"

No, don't have any new stuff.

I'm busting my ass over here.

When I'm writing, I don't feel the anxiety I usually feel.

Like when I'm actually just immersed in something like that,

I can quiet the rest of my brain,

and that's like focusing on something else.

And that's nice.

Because usually, what my anxiety is,

is like you won't have any good ideas for this thing.

You aren't writing it right now.

Why?

Actually, sitting down to write something is really calming.

I pitched a few ideas to Comedy Central for a series.

And the one that we decided to make was called

Eva vs. Anxiety.

- [man] ...Here's the boss. - My boss. It's my boss.

OK, go meet your boss.

- Hey, Eva-- Oh. - Hey.

- Uh, Hi. - What can I help you with?

It's Claire's birthday today.

Oh, Claire is the one with the glasses.

And I have contacts, so we in general have a ton to talk about.

Basically, everyone's already signed the card

- when you were out, so. - Sure.

Well, the only reason I was out was

because the idea of being here made

me want to die more than it usually does.

For sure. Here's a pen.

No problem. I'll just be creative and concise on the spot.

You know what? I'm actually going to drop this off at your desk.

Because as weird as it sounds, you standing over my shoulder

isn't really allowing my creative juices to flow,

as they usually do.

Just make sure you get me that ASAP. All right?

ASAP as hell.

- Love you. - What?

Someone maybe thinks like you're a little weird,

but it's kind of inconsequential--

is the idea for the series, is it

like everything is actually fine in the end,

but give someone kind of a weird vibe.

Eva?

Hey, Eva, come on.

No, you go ahead.

I'll hold it for you.

No, no, no. No, you go ahead.

- Come on over, Eva. - No, I'll catch the next one.

- Go ahead. - Plenty of time, Eva.

- No, it's fine. - Come on.

- Come on over, Eva. - OK.

It was therapeutic to make in some ways

because I felt like certain people saw it and were

like, "that is what it's like".

And I was like, yeah, OK.

I knew it.

What's on the ceiling?

12 inches-- OK, interesting.

Then also, some people were like, this video is

making me experience anxiety.

Well, that's not what I--

I don't want to make people feel anxious.

But then again, if you've never experienced it.

Ha, ha.

Now you have a little bit of it.

Hey, feel better.

I made it. I'm alive.

Like, the most helpful thing for me is, like, most

of what you're reacting to is something

your brain is making up.

That is a helpful thing to me.

Like, if you have that negative thought

thing where this is going to be a disaster, even if--

anything's better than that.

So you don't really set yourself up

to engage and enjoy with things, but it's

going to be better than what happened in your head somehow.

Hmm, I guess I'll say anxiety is a false friend,

and then it's warning you about a danger,

but it's one that isn't actually there.

Good morning, everyone.

Thank you so much for being here.

I got to say, motivation wasn't expecting

to see you here this morning.

Behold.

Yeah, what are you doing here, weirdo?

I started personifying these different feelings and emotions

in my head and turning them into characters and skits.

OK, so as you guys know, kids are home for summer.

Uh, looks like she wants to take them to the park,

feed them a healthy lunch.

It's funny.

Uh, then take them to a pool party slash barbecue.

How can we [bleep] this up?

When motivation takes off, I can remind her

how dangerous parks are and how one in three kids

injures themselves on the monkey bars each year

and has to get sent to the hospital.

Hi, I can convince her that she probably

shouldn't go because creepy old dudes lurk around the park

and take kids sometime.

That's perfect. Uh...

I kept her up late last night watching serial killer documentaries.

So I've already got her convinced

that there's a murderer looking for her right now as we speak.

When is this meeting over?

Remember, we need to work together as a team

to make her completely mentally unstable.

[alarm beeping]

You know what that means.

Come on, let's go.

Let's get pumped.

Oh, this is happening so fast. OK.

Ugh...

Places, OK? Make her look nuts.

You guys got this. Good job, team.

So I'm going to explain now.

You have your thoughts--

I'll move my hand in a second...

...feelings,

...behaviors.

So those thoughts you're having, like a lot of what ifs.

Like what if something bad happens to my, um, kids?

What if, you know, people are judging me?

So then you might feel anxiety, fear.

And then therefore, what do you do?

Well, avoidance is kind of like the mother

of all like those maladaptive behaviors.

So the more you avoid and the more you give in to those fears,

then obviously, it's creating more and more avoidance, right?

Right.

Um, and then information- seeking, reassurance-seeking--

- this is like, is everything going to be OK? - Mm.

And over time and as somebody gets older

and they haven't done treatment, these

get more and more, the symptoms get worse over time.

Your world kind of gets smaller.

Even the avoidance of making a decision

only makes you more and more indecisive over time.

- Does that make sense? - 100%.

You know, the intrusive thoughts in and of themselves

does not mean you're somehow crazy or pathological

or anything like that.

It's really how you're responding to them that's

keeping you kind of in that loop.

- Right. - Does that make sense?

Yeah.

You have this harm OCD.

- You have-- - I have OCD?

I think there's strong tendencies here.

You know, the harm OCD is really like thoughts or intrusive thoughts and images

- about harm of somebody else or of yourself. - Yeah.

The idea is that I can get to the point

where you have these thoughts, but you're not

responding to them.

But isn't it good to prepare for different scenarios?

So that when it does go wrong, I'm ready for action.

There's no way to prepare completely

for something happening.

Right, something in me makes me feel like I can for some reason.

And that's the anxiety.

So all of this is in the service of trying to get certainty.

Right? So everything you're dealing with

is really the uncertainty, the what if.

Yes.

But I just want to let you know that the thought that

came into my head when you said that -Mm-hmm.

was if I kept them inside at all times, they could live.

And whose mental health would that be good for?

Me, specifically.

I love therapy. If you're going to therapy, I can knock it out for you.

You can save the money. It's your family.

Whatever you're dealing with...

...anxiety, depression.

Look no further than your own family.

It's their problem. It's their fault.

At first, I was skeptical. I was like, I don't know.

And then I spent 11 seconds with my family,

and I was like, he nailed it.

I started seeing a therapist who was really helpful

and sort of jarring back to "This is where it's coming from.

This feeling comes from there."

And that's so helpful is connecting all the feelings

with emotions and that mind body thing of saying

that's been the most helpful to me

in dealing with anxiety is, this is not some curse.

I feel I was cursed to have this.

I got to go. Thank you very much.

Enjoy the rest of your night.

Back to Petey D.

Joe List, everyone, man.

I'm so sorry.

Get up there.

Everybody's waiting for you.

Hi. Nice to meet you.

Sorry.

Both my parents are really anxious.

My dad's sort of a quiet guy, and so there wasn't always

a lot of connection always there.

So there was a lot of anxiety in the house.

My parents were so loving and kind and always there

that you think like I've had this perfect child.

It-- Just because you weren't abused or abandoned or divorced

or anything like that, there's still difficult

things to deal with and because I sort of

learned to relate through anxiety and to worry.

Whole cheese pizza just for me.

I mean, I'll eat this.

And I'm literally thinking while eating it,

I'm going to get cancer.

This is like frozen, you know, preservatives.

I'm like, every time, I mean, I'm like,

I should be not doing this.

I don't even enjoy it.

I'm like, this is the worst food for you.

And I ate it last night.

I'm like, I mean, I'm going to have a...

you know, heart attack or something.

But it's very tasty.

You're tucked in very far there.

Is that on purpose or--

you just live your best life.

I had these feelings of being nervous as a kid,

and I just thought that I was crazy.

Back then, I didn't really have anybody to talk to about it

because everybody else seemed fine.

So I was like, OK, I'm not going to mention

that this is how I'm feeling.

Because then, everybody's going to think I'm crazy.

There was no word for it.

Do you think mommy always watches you eat?

Why?

All right.

So let me tell you a little bit about the treatment.

- Yeah? - OK.

At the end of the day, the label doesn't matter.

Like, there's some generalized anxiety disorder,

things happening here, too.

But at the end of the day, the label doesn't really matter.

It's just the treatment's going to be the same.

You're still going to do exposures

regardless of what it was.

You're going to be doing a lot of, maybe, maybe not, which

is you have an intrusive thought like, man, my kids

are jumping on that trampoline.

They could break their neck.

Yeah, maybe they will. Maybe they won't.

You know, it's kind of accepting the ambiguity,

accepting the uncertainty of what could happen.

And then you'll do exposures, which is everything

that you don't want your kids to do, I'm going to have them do,

but in a hierarchical basis.

So like, we start off easy, and then

we slowly get to more and more difficult things.

Like eventually-- what's his name?

- Kaiden. - Kaiden.

So what we'll eventually do is like have him do a sleepover

or something like that.

- I don't think so. - Well--

Thank you for the offer.

I'm going to pass.

That's funny.

But by the time we get there, it won't even, um,

cause you that much anxiety.

At the beginning, it could be, yeah,

you go somewhere that you don't typically

want to go to with your kids.

Um, we'll start off small, Tiffany.

Next time I see you, this is all we're

going to do is come up with exposures.

Do we actually do them or do we just talk--

Yeah, you'll do exposures.

Yeah, that's what you're going to be doing is exposure therapy.

Everything you're afraid to do, you're going to do,

but in a hierarchical basis.

It's challenging but manageable.

OK.

See, now, I get these.

Yeah.

I think that the broad statement that comedians

are miserable or dark.

I've met a lot of not completely well-adjusted, funny people.

I mean, stand-ups are different than sketch people.

They're different than people who work with other people.

Stand-ups are very specific.

They're, sort of, lone rangers out there.

They do their own thing.

They're not really social animals necessarily,

except with other stand-ups. But in terms of problems

and alcoholism and anxiety, negative ruminations, darkness,

I don't know.

I imagine if you were really to do some sort of survey

of plumbers or teachers or whatever,

I don't know that the numbers would be that different.

It's a wonderful thing, though, to have family, to have kids.

You know... two of my kids, I wanted to take them out.

But their stepdad was doing a better job,

so I didn't want to interfere.

Other professions, mental health may not have been a big topic.

But in comedy, comedians talk about it on stage.

That's what comedy has always done, right,

destigmatizing things by going up there and saying,

this is OK to talk about.

You ever in your room, it just smells like loneliness?

You're just laying there.

I don't think I ever met anybody

as smart as turning everything

they have their pain to making people laugh.

Some of them, they bleeding on the stage.

I was a comedian first, and I started the Laugh Factory

in 1979.

Being around the comic, many of them,

they are like my own family.

I love them.

Jamie had seen so many incredibly talented people

sacrificed so much for what could

be a very uncertain future, and then

get to an incredible level of success

and still have anxiety, substance abuse, depression,

and for some, suicide.

I think seeing your friends have to go through that

can wear on a person.

I realize I got to do something.

And he told me he was like, I'm thinking

of offering free psychological services to the comedians.

So I had referred Dr. Tabori to Jamie.

I thought she'd be a good fit.

What was presented to me was to provide treatment

for the comedians, psychological treatment for the comedians

because they needed more support than what Jamie could provide.

There is still that stigma attached

to talking to somebody about it.

But that is the one thing that is

going to make you feel better, is

starting to talk to somebody about it

and recognizing how normal your experience is in the world.

Thank you very much.

You're very kind.

I literally nurtured, fed,

clothed, and educated my anxiety

as if it was my own child.

And so why am I surprised that it has such power over me when

I have given it so much?

And so being able to coexist with it and the kind of a way,

it's almost thinking about like it's a shadow self,

it's a clone that I have to reabsorb into myself.

And so thinking about it like that helps me not let

it have all the power over me.

Ey, ey, ey, ey, ey, ey, ey, ey--

Eyyyyy.

ey, ey, ey, ey, ey, ey, ey, ey, ey, ey, ey.

- Brother. - What's up, man?

Good to see you, man.

I actually just started going to therapy.

Hey.

Yeah, it's kind of like, I need to fix this. This is--

Especially now, I'm like, I'm at a point

- where I need to take more responsibility of my life. - Mm-hmm.

I feel like I'm being really sensitive because I see you

as like a brother, like a sibling, essentially, but--

You're the big bro.

Hey, that's what I try to do.

- Yeah. - It's not that something is wrong with you.

- It's that there's a pattern that no longer serves you. - Yeah.

- Mm. - And that's in your way.

And that's still a healthy way to see it.

Yeah, I'm a very like dude, why would you do that?

- Dude. - You did it again.

You know what I mean?

I'm older than you, and I've been doing this for longer.

- I still have that. - Yeah.

- Yeah. - I'm saying like, it doesn't just magically go away.

You're always going to be working on it.

Yeah, and it's like everyone had been telling me to go

to therapy for a long time.

And I was like, nah.

Like you said, that's white people.

You know what I mean? And I was just like--

and my mom would tell me that you

don't want to do that stuff because it'll be on your record.

She told me that from a long time ago.

And I believed it.

But then she's like, when you want to get a real job,

it's going to really affect you.

But I'm like, I'm a comedian now.

Like no matter what, this isn't going to affect me at all.

No one's going to be like, you're

a comedian that goes to therapy?

We can't hire you.

It's like, they're going to be like--

You're a comedian that goes therapy?

- Thank God. - Thank God.

We needed someone that had a little bit of self-awareness in here.

Yeah.

- Whose water is that? - That's yours.

All right, I'm taking it.

I had to ask for one.

- My bad. - Uh-oh.

- Did you get one? - Oh yeah.

All right.

[Mark] It's just the whole time, you're just going, like,

am I doing this right? Is this good?

I'm bored. Are they bored?

I'm just worried the whole time. Like, is this going well?

Amazing.

Dude, it's fucking-- my jet lag is all fucked up.

I heard you say once a long time ago that it's like chemical.

Yes.

You said you put your feet up on the wall.

- I tried that. - Yeah.

Learned how to do it. We're going to start now.

So just lower the volume.

Sure, sure.

You look great.

Thanks.

I was about to sing, but I guess I'll wait.

Comics have a ton of anxiety because as you can see,

they're all in their head.

That's why we're comic-- We analyze.

We sit there and think about stuff.

And then we're thinking about thinking.

And then we're thinking about what we're thinking.

And it just piles on and piles on.

That's why I can't smoke weed because I'll just

go in this wormhole or I just want to kill myself.

I'll be walking on a stage, my brain's going,

you're going to bomb this?

This is going to be bad. You suck.

You suck. You're not going to be able to get out of this one.

Good luck, you loser.

And I got to go, shut up.

And then, hey, everybody. How are you?

Comedy, confidence is fake.

I know what I'm doing.

[host] Ladies and gentlemen, we are so lucky to have him.

Please give it up real big for Mark Normand.

People always say, what, you're an introvert?

You're a comedian. How does that work?

You're anxious? Well, because I'm on a stage saying

exactly what I want to say, exactly what

I've been practicing.

It's honed.

I know it works.

And then you can't talk.

And then I get to leave.

Everybody works out their muscles.

Why not work out your emotions?

I'll be hanging out with a friend, you know.

He's like, all right, man, take it easy.

I'm going to go work on arms and back.

I'm like, cool. I'm going to go work on letting go of the past

and accepting love.

I don't know if you're getting out

your anxiety by being a stand-up,

but it still is an outlet.

You have this weird high for a few minutes after.

You kind of feel like, hey, this is pretty good.

But then you go right back to normal life.

Like a friend from high school.

Hey, I'm in New York.

I'm going to come to your show tonight. Let's hang out after.

I'm like, come to the show. But I don't want to hang out after.

The hangout after party, that's where I'm like,

ugh, that's brutal.

Good morning.

Are you guys ready?

Good morning.

Good morning.

Lots of people in Florida ride their golf carts

to take the kids to school.

I used to make fun of those people, actually.

- That's not nice. - I agree.

You're right. That was mean. I'm sorry.

Hold on. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

How are you doing?

- Hi, good. How are you? - Good, good. Have a seat.

OK.

Oh, sorry, should I shut that?

All those apologies.

Sorry for-- never mind.

I'm not sorry.

- Good to see you. - Good to see you.

OK, so the purpose of the exposures

isn't to get rid of anxiety.

Exposures are increasing your tolerance of anxiety.

You will continue to have intrusive thoughts

like the rest of us.

But the idea is that the intrusive thoughts,

while they might spark some short term anxiety,

they don't dictate your behaviors.

You are learning that if you don't respond

to your anxiety and the intrusive thoughts,

that your brain will learn that there's really no threat.

- OK. - The thoughts will become less threatening over time.

- Right. - Makes sense?

Yes.

Your most common compulsions at this time

would be avoidance, the mother of them all. Alright?

You're doing other behaviors, such as information-seeking,

reassurance-seeking.

You're checking, like checking your kids and--

Yeah, true.

And then all the sorries that you

say and all that people-pleasing, that's

all compulsions.

Like you say a lot of sorries.

I'll have you actually start tracking your sorries today,

including some of these other compulsions.

And I'll show you how to start tracking them.

OK.

So when you do exposures, we're doing

it to increase that level of uncertainty.

Again, we're purposely making you

more anxious in the short term.

I-- Why am I like this?

I don't know what's wrong-- like we have any--

I don't know why I'm crying.

I think it's the idea that I'm not

going to be in control anymore is what.

You're already not in control.

- I like to think that I am. - Yeah.

But the realization that I'm wrong about that

makes me emotional.

Exposures are odd.

So it's OK to be emotional. This is weird.

Alright. OK. So I've got some exposures already written

- like simple to come up with, but difficult to do. - Yeah.

What would it be for you to just write the statement,

"Maybe my kids will die."

That's-- Why are we starting there?

That's excessive.

Um, just write it?

Just to write that line, "Maybe my kids will die."

Maybe or my kids will die?

Maybe.

Very uncomfortable.

OK, drink after your husband.

Nope.

Do you kiss him?

Yeah.

- With tongue, right? - Yeah.

So how is that different from the drinking after him?

- For you and your brain-- - I know--

What's the differentiation?

I think because I'm not drinking bits of his food

when I kiss him.

Like, and it feels like--

I'll have him, like, snack on crackers.

No, I cannot-- Listen.

He will never get a kiss from me again.

Earl-- Earlier at the session, I had to write over and over

and over and over again.

- Are you ready? - Mm-hmm.

Maybe my kids will die today.

No way.

That's extreme.

- I know. - OK.

Over and over and over again.

And she wants me to do it five times a day.

And she wants me to get more and more specific about the manner

of death as I go on.

Well, she's a professional, so.

While I'm trying to write this, I'm

thinking about the kitchen exploding and my kids getting

hit by cars outside playing basketball simultaneously.

So it feels like I'm in one of those 1970s torture experiments

at the moment.

So if you notice anything, that's what that is.

I'm looking at my impacted wisdom tooth

and trying to see if there's anything in there.

And if there is, to pull it out because I've

tried to keep it clean.

But there's a space in there, and it makes my gum stick out.

And I can feel it in my tongue, and it's really annoying.

But now I'm going to finally have it taken out.

But I've been doing this for 20 times a day for three years.

It's been an obsession.

These are 40 pounds each, if anyone asks.

- Don't worry. - I can do this all day.

You want some of that?

I mean, I really need to vacuum.

This is a problem.

My anxiety is manifested in so many different ways.

It's crazy.

Like I thought I was going blind for a while.

I thought I had--

I'd have all these chest pains.

I thought I've had cancer probably 85 different times.

I can go through all of my photos of my life, all

my travel, and I can point and go, that day in Paris,

I was worried about my eye was twitching.

Or that day in London, that was when my tooth was hurting.

So I'll have something--

I always pick something to obsess about.

And here's my wedding.

My wedding, during my wedding, I had just

had two root canals done where I hadn't

had the final crowns put on.

So I had temporary crowns.

And then I was concerned that they were going to come out

in my food during the wedding.

So my actual wedding was marred with anxiety even

with that spectacular Ted Baker suit.

This is what I discovered about marriage.

I feel like marriage is basically two people maneuvering

around each other's mental illness.

Right?

Like just have to find somebody that

has the right mental illness for your mental illness.

And my relationship, like my wife

has been frustrated, especially when

I was dealing with panic attacks, which is actually good.

Again, my therapist, she can kind of

limit my anxiety because I'm worrying

and worrying and worrying, talking and talking

about what I'm worried about.

And she's like, I don't know what to do.

I don't know what else to do.

And you go, Jesus, I'm going to lose my wife if I don't stop.

So it actually is kind of nice.

Because sometimes, you need that because it puts a cap on it.

Because you're like, God, I'm ruining people's day here.

And this could cost me a relationship if I keep--

I got to get this in hand.

My wife is sweet.

Sometimes, I feel like she doesn't even know me though.

I was on the road recently, and I couldn't

sleep because I had anxiety. So I called her at home.

And I was like, I'm having trouble sleeping.

And she's so sweet.

She was like, "have you tried masturbating?"

I was like, that is adorable that you thought that I

hadn't thought to masturbate.

Hate the small talk.

Two things I can't do is small talk and eye contact.

How sad is that?

I basically have all the traits of a serial killer,

just without the ambition.

I'm working on it.

People say, "Mark, ought to be more confident."

They say, "Mark, got to be yourself."

I'm like, well, you got to pick one.

I can't do both of those.

I've had quick instances of dating people where they were

not anxious, and it's too hard.

Hey.

Every girl would go on a date with, will be like,

"you're so awkward.

God, you're so awkward."

And I'm like, all right, I don't know what to do.

Like, do you think that helps?

You saying that, it's not going to make me all of a sudden suave

and confident. You know?

So like, that always annoyed me.

But I think every now and then you

meet like that one girl out of 50 who likes the awkward guy.

Hey, all right.

This is Mae.

Hello.

From Massachusetts.

So I did a show at The Stand.

And some joke really,

you remembered and you emailed me.

Well, back up a little bit.

So I went to the comedy show.

And then, I don't know.

Then Mark got on stage.

And I was like, whoa.

- Uh... - I was like, he's super cute.

I like what he's saying.

I think we made eye contact.

- Yeah. - That was the joke.

It's just too intense.

I feel it too much.

It's-- I look someone in the eye, and I'm like,

I guess we're in love now.

It's too much contact.

I can't take it. It bothers me.

- I messaged you on Facebook the next morning. - Yeah.

And I was like, we made eye contact more than once

so I take it we're in love now.

Yeah, pretty good line.

Pretty good.

She's incredibly anxious, which is nice.

But she has crazy anxiety, but she's not an introvert.

You have anxiety, like, what's going to happen in the future?

Oh, exactly.

Where the hell are we going to be?

Mine's much more like existential and annoying

- than his is. - Mine is social.

Right, like every day I come home,

I'm like, what if I never find my passion?

Like, we were just having a great night,

post-coital, naked, couch, hugging, watching some TV show.

And she was just like, my anxiety is through the roof.

And I was like, what? I'm going--

This is great. What are you talking about?

Post-sex, everything's good.

Everybody orgasm, naked.

We ate, TV, doors locked.

And she's like, I'm just worried about my future.

And I'm like, your future?

Give a little show.

I could go for soup today.

Ooh.

Ain't got a... What's that place by your house?

Um, the place that I get samples all the time,

and then promptly leave without buying anything.

- Uh-huh. - Mm-hmm.

[man screams]

I have to document what we're going to do.

You have to help me with an exposure, if you don't mind.

- OK. - Can you come back over here?

Lick your hand, and then put it here.

From palm to fingertips.

From palm to fingertips.

You can wash your hand if you want.

No.

OK, he did it.

I can see the spit.

OK, good. Now touch it, and then lick your hand.

I love you.

Don't push my hand down.

Now you lick it.

- I have to. - Really?

Yeah.

Welcome to exposure therapy.

I want to see tongue to hand.

It's not you, I promise.

It's the idea of licking spit.

All right, well, don't let it dry.

- Come on, now. - Thank you.

All right, five times a day.

Good work.

We have to do that five times a day.

You don't want me to touch you?

My wife says I dissociate.

When we have sometimes hard talks,

like hard relationship talks, I literally look at the clock

and start staring at the clock.

And then as if my body is melting,

I just slowly but slowly kind of just my chest caves in

and my head comes down, and I won't speak.

And she's like, "are you OK?

Are you OK?"

It's super convenient for a relationship,

for when you want to say something to your husband,

and he goes into the doldrums for 30

minutes at the simple things, really easy stuff to manage.

I always trying to get better.

I'm a weirdo.

That's why I drink. Big fan of the booze.

I got to cut back.

I actually got let go from a job once for being drunk at work.

Yeah.

My boss called me. And he goes, "get in here, Mark.

It's clear you're a high functioning alcoholic."

I was like, wow.

How do you know I was also high?

Totally self-medicating with the drinking.

I enjoy beer.

I like a glass of beer.

I like a scotch.

But there's definitely a point where I go, all right,

I'm pretty buzzed.

I get stopped, and I just keep going.

Because you're like, well, this feels good.

Why not keep going?

And then you're blacked out. Then you wet the bed, and then you're married in Vegas.

I drank. That's how I self-medicated.

I was an alcoholic.

I am an alcoholic. I'm in recovery.

But I drank an exceptional amount.

Because that felt like I can drown this or drink it away.

And you feel, now, I'm confident and less worried in your mind.

And then when you're hungover, like alcohol

is a depressant, which you're not really aware of or keeping in mind.

You're just sort of drinking because it feels

like it's making you happy.

But then you're just dumping a depressant

on top of a depression, anxiety, and insecurity.

I mean, I genuinely think if comedy

didn't exist as an art form, I mean,

I might literally have killed myself.

I mean, I was dealing with such anxiety and panic

and depression.

And I had that thing to go to.

And I don't know.

Yeah, it's definitely been a huge part of who I am.

And it helped me through it.

There's a lot of things I don't give

a shit about that I used to, that were

big anxiety producing things.

And I think with age and certainly with money,

a lot of that stuff is sort of just null and void.

And it's a relief.

But then you start to get into deeper issues like why

am I still not enjoying myself?

Why am I still feeling like less than or uncomfortable

in certain situations?

What is that about?

So we are going to the fair. Um...

Usually, I probably would hang back at the house.

Um, but I am going to challenge myself to go and not...

...and in the words of Natalie, bite my tongue.

I've seen a lot of videos of fair rides

flying off and killing people.

But the likelihood of that happening is very small.

So I'm going to try and go and have a good time.

So first things first, updates.

We were emailing each other over the weekend

because you were going to the fair

and that was causing you some anxiety.

Just right off the bat.

We're just jumping right into it.

- Why not? Why not? - OK.

I was ready for pleasantries, but we can just...

I-- I did OK at the fair.

And then my kids wanted to go on this ride

that I had seen of it. You might have seen it.

But the ride was, um,

it goes like this in a circle really fast.

It was starting to fall back.

And everybody at the fair had to come and jump on the railing

to counterbalance it.

And that's the ride my kids wanted to go on.

And so I was having a nervous breakdown.

I couldn't watch. But then I was like, that defeats the purpose.

So I forced myself to watch, but I was miserable.

And I was snapping on my husband.

And he's like, what's wrong with you?

And I'm like, what do you mean what's wrong with me?

And as soon as they got off the ride that I was scared of,

Chloe said, it was horrible.

Kaiden puked in a garbage can.

It was really rough for all of us.

And your kids could tell you were anxious at the fair?

Yeah, probably. I--

At that point, yeah, they could definitely tell for sure.

Your kids come first throughout this entire process.

Your kids come first.

It would have been fine if you walked away for a little bit

until you felt a little bit better

or the anxiety went down a little bit better,

and then come back.

Because at the end of the day, we

want to make sure that they're not seeing their mom anxious all

the time, and that they can enjoy themselves.

Yeah, that makes sense.

I thought I could.

I'm just tired of being scared all the time.

- It's just exhausting. - Yes, yes.

I'm just being like, I'm scared that I like this.

This person's going to be right.

I'm scared that I'm a failure.

I'm scared that I'm this, that, and the third.

And I'm like, I'm done with that.

- I'm just tired of that feeling. - Yeah.

I feel that.

I don't want that to be the thing that propels me forward

in life.

Because it's gotten me this far, but I'm like, -Yes.

I don't want that to be the thing anymore.

There is no like, you're going,

everything's going to magically

click into place like a reverse Jenga where you find the piece,

- and then the tower builds itself off of that. - Yeah.

You're always going to be, in some way,

actively involved in your own mental health.

- You want to get better. - Yeah.

- You want to be a person that is no longer scared. - Yeah.

And by the way, when I say all these things,

- I'm not saying it from a place of like, I mastered it. - Yeah, yeah.

I figured it all out.

Just do what I did.

I'm still in the grips of trying to figure it out myself.

I think I'm spiritual, maybe.

I don't know.

Nah, probably not.

Like when did this question become so popular?

Like, I get it like three or four times a week.

Hey, are you meditating? Do you meditate?

It's like, what's happening? When did that--

Why is everyone asking me that?

Like, does that happen to you, or is it crazy?

Are you meditating?

Are you guys part of the same team? Why--

No, I'm not fucking meditating.

But in all honesty, I got to where you needed to be.

The one time I meditated successfully, I cleared my mind.

I cleared my ego.

Everything was open.

I hit that point of zen.

And all I could hear was my breath and my heart beating.

And right at that moment, I thought this could fucking stop at any second.

Let your attention go inward.

And notice if there's tension in your body, notice the breathing.

Sometimes, it helps to take a long, deep, slow in breath.

Counting to four or five, and then a slow outbreath.

Counting to four or five.

And do it a few rounds so that when you inhale,

you're filling your chest and lungs.

And with the outbreath, it's slow enough

so you can feel the sensations of letting go.

That's right, letting go.

So as you now bring your attention to scanning your life

and sensing that situation that most

triggers a reaction,

recognizing whatever is predominant.

Well, I think it's a desire for peace,

a feeling of peace for myself and for my family and people

I love.

I guess there's a lot of pain there, fear and pain, anger.

Can you just let them be here for now

and begin to investigate what is it

you're believing that makes you feel stuck, makes you feel

anxious, makes you feel angry?

Well, it feels like everybody I've

ever met is seeing and judging me, which feels strange to say

but that's in there somehow.

All right, let's do a worry search.

OK.

Um, biggest fear of where your kids are going to die?

Most freaking life-ruining one is choking

and me not being able to Heimlich them

- OK. - or getting kidnapped.

- We'll do the choking. - OK.

And where would they choke?

Would this be in public or at home?

What's most of the image in your head?

- Home. - OK, good.

God, any of them.

When I'm not home, nobody else watches them like I do.

No, it's better if you see them die for the worry script.

It's just much more impactful if you see it. Alright.

I just don't even want to know where this is going.

Let me write this up real quick.

So the point isn't that we get rid

of discomfort or all anxiety.

It's just so that your brain becomes a bit bored

with the thoughts that you keep having like choking.

And then therefore, it doesn't rule your life.

So five times a day, you got to read that repeatedly.

Read it out loud.

I'm screaming Chloe's name.

She's thrashing around on the ground

by the kitchen table with her hands around her throat.

I see that there's still part of a hot dog on a plate from lunch.

I ask her if she ate a hot dog.

She can't respond.

I run to get the DeChoker from the drawer.

Fuck.

My hands are shaking too much to use it.

I look at Chloe and a single tear goes down her cheek.

I tell her I love her.

You got this.

Let's just continue to read. You got this.

That's so mean of you to write that.

Well, but it's not on purpose.

I hope you know that.

The worry script is you think about what your fear is.

And if it's put in a paragraph form,

the whole point of worry script is to burn out

whatever fear somebody has. Right?

Whether it's somebody drowning in a pool, whether it's-- well,

for some people, it's like getting fired or going broke.

Whatever fear somebody has where we can't do an in vivo exposure,

we got to do a worry script.

Did you hear any of that?

Yeah.

Ugh.

So you don't allow the kids to be alone, ever?

- No. - OK, good.

So I want you to leave the kids alone at least once a day

where you go shower or read a book.

This is dangerous.

And if you don't improve on this,

the impact this is going to have on your kids is dangerous.

So every day, there needs to be some instance where

the kids are left alone.

Like how long?

Typically, until your anxiety goes down.

OK, but can I tell them not to-- I always--

If I have to run upstairs--

No instructions. No instruction.

No, but not eating.

No instructions.

I don't even think they'll let me be alone.

I'm going to go upstairs for a couple of minutes, OK?

That one.

I already got that one.

Hey, guys, I'm going to go upstairs

for a couple of minutes, OK?

OK.

Why?

Because I have to do something.

OK, fine.

All right. Love you.

So they could give two shits.

Literally, the first time I said it, they just ignored me.

And then I was like, hey guys, go.

And they're like, fine.

I don't think they're old enough to be on their own, really.

But sounds like they're fine.

I haven't fixed this board.

OK, you know what?

That's fine.

My laundry pile is there.

So let's--

I can hear them talking so I like that.

It's really weird.

I'm-- There's nothing on my--

I'm just clicking buttons because I can't focus.

Just be relaxed.

Just casual.

I don't know what to read.

My anxiety stopped me from having children.

But I'm not sad about it.

My panic and worry level operates in such a way

that it just would not...

...it just seems like a nightmare to me.

I walk up the house. I turn out the lights.

I'm about to go to bed. And out on the front porch, I hear--

[vocalizing meow]

And I'm like, what?

And I go pull the curtain back, and there's

this little two-month-old black kitten sitting there.

Aww...

That's the proper response.

That is not the response I had.

My response was, aw, fuck.

Now I got to fucking love you now?

♪ OK, little baby ♪

♪ My quarantine baby ♪

♪ My quarantine baby, yeah ♪ ♪ Ooh ♪

I'm very embarrassed.

My cat has been diagnosed with anxiety.

I'm like, it is my fault. It must be.

It just can't be that he's anxious, too, somehow.

I went to the vet, and they were like, he's a nervous boy.

And I was like, why?

And I think that he just is like that.

I think he was born that way.

He's so cute.

He's horrible, though.

I love him.

I had to give him an anti-anxiety pill.

And now, he's like flopping around.

I'm like, I need one of these.

But I don't because they knocked me out.

I have never taken pills consistently.

But I mean, I definitely would try a medication

that I knew wouldn't change the fabric of who

I am, but calmed my thoughts.

I haven't really dove into learning about that.

But I would.

I like this noise. I find it soothing.

I was on Paxil for a couple of years.

And then I just didn't want to be on it anymore.

I feel like a lot of these things

can be combated through therapy and acceptance and meditation

and stuff.

And a lot can. I want to dismiss people that.

Because certainly there's people that need medication,

and it's changed their lives.

So I don't want to be anti medicine.

I just personally didn't want to be part of that.

There's definitely been times where I'm like,

I should be on medication.

This is a problem.

But I've gotten through it.

There is no way to pick up pills that you've

spilled on the ground without looking

like a total human red flag.

You know? There's just no way to be like, oh!

Oh, this is what I meant to do.

And everything is going great.

I'm on primarily antidepressants,

but they all are ones that also help with anxiety.

I have friends who are very anti medication and stuff.

But for me, at least personally, I

was like, well, if I don't take medication,

I won't even be able to show up to be funny.

So I think it's not as much of an option for me.

That's the worst part.

Chloe stares at me frightened like she's pleading for help.

When I read it in the office, I wanted to die.

I cried like a kid.

And now, reading it, it doesn't feel the same

as it did because I already know what's coming.

Did you habituate to the worry script?

Habituate?

Meaning like if you were to read it now, does it seem stupid?

It was day two when I habituated to the worries.

I couldn't feel anything.

I'm trying to relax more.

It's hard. I got into Buddhism.

I'm like a Buddhist, sort of. I read a Buddhist book.

It wasn't a book. It was a meme, if I'm being honest with you guys.

But I'd like to say book.

You sound smarter when you say you read a book.

But memes are more-- they're preferable. They're more succinct, you know.

This is what it said. It had a good quote.

It said, "Let negative thoughts come into your head,

but don't serve them tea." Hmm?

Because you don't want your negative thoughts

lingering around drinking tea.

That's like the analogy, I guess.

My negative thoughts aren't drinking tea.

Mine are doing cocaine. That's a better analogy.

My negative thoughts are like climate change

is going to make the world uninhabitable tomorrow.

Ah, fuck! Jesus.

Recall the initial situation that triggered you.

So you're including that in your awareness.

And just sense whatever it wants to unfold from that.

Just notice what happens.

I guess just a feeling of...

...this, um...

I can't solve these other people's

uh, problems, and that's OK.

I do feel less angry and anxious about it and more just aware

of it.

And maybe it's sad, as opposed to angry and fearful.

Mm. Mm.

OK, so notice the possibility

of in some way honoring sad.

OK, this, too, it's sad.

The hardest thing in the world is

to be with the feelings we don't want to be with.

And the more you get familiar with it,

the more you get to inhabit it really.

Feel free to open your eyes and move around and all that.

Welcome back.

Oh. Thank you.

- Yeah. - Um...

Yeah, it felt intense.

- I get it. - Yeah.

Um...

Yeah, I don't know. It feels...

It feels good.

You know, it's not meant to be like, you know, check, got that one worked.

You're getting more awake to yourself.

Right.

Yeah, no, it was good.

And towards the end there, I did feel

positive and more that feeling of no, I'm a good person.

And I don't have to feel these negative feelings so much.

You have to, kind of, almost like you're sifting through a jungle.

You have to hack at these different weeds and stuff that

are in the way to get to the treasure of whatever it is

that you are actually feeling.

Whatever it is that is the real hole,

the real, um, piece of you that you feel

is broken or missing or wrong that you are trying to avoid.

You can come say hi real quick if you'd like.

- Hey. - Hi.

Hi.

We're going to try to get you to do more fun things so that mommy

isn't so scared all the time.

Why do you think mommy gets scared?

Because you don't want me to get hurt.

Yeah.

But nobody wants anybody to get hurt.

And we still just have to do things.

Right, Chloe?

Yeah, she's just scaredest when in our family.

Well, that's changing.

That's changing quickly.

All right. I'll be out soon. I love you.

OK.

All right, bye.

I'm not going to do it.

OK, toodles.

Bye-bye.

It's not like you love your children

more than other people love their children.

I don't know.

Don't confuse anxiety with love.

Don't confuse those two.

Whoa, let me write that down.

That was deep.

The amount I stress over them does not

- It's not love. - equate fair and helpful.

[Mark] Therapists always give me little assignments.

I'll be like, this guy hates me. I know he hates me.

I don't know how to act around him because I can't be myself,

and I can't be comfortable.

And he's like, "just go ask him."

And I'm like, what, are you crazy?

I can't do that. You can't ask a guy if he hates you if he hates you.

And he was like, "just ask him."

So I'd be like, OK.

And I would go up to be like, you hate me?

And they would always be like, "what?

No, I don't even think about you."

And he would say stuff like stop putting thoughts

in other people's heads.

And if you do, you got to just drop it.

Yeah, I think I've been trying to work on my brain on my own.

I found out my therapist is raising her rates.

Yes, so I guess I'm cured.

Very exciting.

Thank you.

Sometimes, you don't realize how close you are to a breakthrough.

And then there it is.

I think growth works in mysterious ways.

It's hard to exist with it.

But I think weirdly, even when it's gotten really bad,

Like, I know I've been able to get through things with it.

So I think in that sense, that's what

keeps me going where it's like, but you've been here before.

You know your way out.

Even if it feels like particularly terrible today,

like, you've gotten through it before.

So that sort of keeps me grounded.

Everything in life is acceptance,

except that this is your situation.

You have it. And that immediately alleviates us to go yeah, I'm anxious,

but that's OK.

Just accept that you're anxious right now

or accept that you're afraid of that activity

or accept that you're mad at somebody.

Those are all OK.

Instead of just going, God, I'm mad at that.

I shouldn't be mad. I should be happy.

And enough of getting rid of those I shouldn't feel this way

and just say, no, I do feel this way.

And that's OK.

What do we think we're going to do?

Like if you're incapacitated and your life

is unmanageable for whatever reason, you should fix that.

If you're uncomfortable, but you're OK,

that might just be you.

I think I would like to find more moments of calm.

I definitely feel far from experiencing calm

a lot of the time.

But I think I've had my anxiety for long enough

that I'm starting to understand when my body is sending off

fire alarms, and it's not real.

And I'm like, OK, that's what you're experiencing

because you're worried about this outcome that is super not

likely to happen.

Alright. So what do you want to do, the sleepover?

We'll have to make a firm plan of when it's going to be.

I'll start really giving it some thought.

I definitely don't feel the same way at the thought of it

as I once did. I feel like--

The first time we talked about it, I'm pretty sure I cried.

And now, the idea doesn't invoke those emotions for me.

Yeah, I don't think it'll be that bad.

Please give a warm welcome to Mark Normand.

Hey, comedy.

Good to be here.

I love a roof gig.

This goes horribly, I can just jump right off.

Doing good. I'm in therapy.

Drinking less.

Career's going all right.

So, yeah, everything's kicked up a notch in the positive world.

But who knows?

It could all go to hell tomorrow.

Oh yeah! It's going to be awesome!

This is my wife, Sarah Tollemache, and my best bud.

My main man.

Like I said this to my therapist once, where I was like,

I feel great. I feel like I don't even need to be here anymore.

And he's like, "well, I would say you are not done with therapy."

And then, of course, a week later, I'm like, [screams]

losing my mind.

[host] ...in the back, we can't hear you.

Give it up for Joe List.

Thank you, Jack. Hi.

So my son was at the next door neighbor's house playing.

And he just called his dad.

His dad had it on speaker.

And Kaiden was like, "Dad, can I stay the night at Alexander's?"

And then his dad said, "We got to ask your mom."

And I said, "Yes."

I said, "Yeah."

And on the other end of the phone,

I heard both boys say, "Yes!"

And I've never heard my son that excited before.

Like, granted, it's next door, right?

And granted, his friend's dad is a police officer.

But I'm just saying, Kaiden's having his first sleepover tonight.

Ever.

[Bo Burnham, "Feel Good"]

♪ I just ♪

♪ I just want to feel good ♪

♪ I just want to feel good ♪

♪ I just want to feel ♪

♪ Can you teach me How to feel good ♪

♪ I just want to feel good ♪

♪ I just want to ♪

♪ I just want to feel ♪

♪ Give me specific direction ♪

♪ On how I can feel good ♪

♪ I just want to ♪

♪ I just want to feel good ♪

♪ I'm not even Close to kidding ♪

♪ Write it in an email ♪

♪ I just want to feel ♪

♪ I just want to feel good ♪