All language subtitles for New Tricks - S07E09 - Gloves Off

- Morning.
- Morning.

Dawn Abbott.

She was arrested three days ago

and charged with intent
to supply amphetamines.

That would be a current
investigation, Wouldn't it'?

It is, and there's no mystery
there. She's admitted to it.

But she does claim to have
new information

about a fatal fire in a drinking
club in Ealing called the Union

which at the time was classified
as an accident.

Okay.

Can I help at all'?

Oh, I was just looking
at the various courses.

New members are always welcome.

- And, um, these lectures?
- Yes.

Each lecture is given
by a U3A member,

usually drawing on experience
from their previous life.

L-I mean their professional
life.

-[ Chuckles]
- What did you do'?

I was a police officer.

- Oh, really?
-[ Cellphone rings]

Retired, presumably, now, with
some extra time on your hands?

Not exactly.

# It's all right, it's okay #

# Doesn't really matter
if you're old and gray #

# It's all right,
I say it's okay #

# Listen to what I say #

# It's all right, doing fine #

# Doesn't really matter
if the sun don't shine #

# It's all right,
I say it's okay #

# We're getting to
the end of the day #

SubRIP by docent{mults.org

August 4, 1996 --

The Union drinking club, Ealing,
went up in flames.

Four people died, and seven
others were hospitalized.

The people who died

were Hailey Wilde,
who worked behind the bar,

Terence Cross, Chris Stamp,

who worked for this one,
Mark Johnson, a local criminal.

STANDING: Local?

That's like saying Heathrow
is a local airport.

Well, it is
if you live in Hounslow.

If this wasn't an accident,

Mark Johnson was definitely
the target.

He's a serious player.

- Did you know him'?
- No.

He had two brothers
who I did know a bit --

Danny and Karl.

Danny mostly.

I met him when I first joined
the force

and he was still robbing
corner shops.

I think they took over his crew
and are still running it,

as far as I know.

- So what are they into now'?
- Well, drugs mostly.

They put security
in various clubs and bars,

then they put
their own dealer in.

Well, according to
the original report,

the fire was probably caused
by faulty electrical wiring

in a first-floor room.

It looks like an inferno.

PULLMAN: There'd been building
work done there the Week before,

and the contractor said
that he'd used the room

to store materials, such as
turpentine, paint thinner.

Well, they're accelerants,
aren't they?

That's why the fire
would've spread so quickly.

Yeah.
That was the conclusion.

So what's changed?

We have a witness that claims
it wasn't an accident.

STANDING:
Oh, listen.

Could you put these
in the locker with your stuff'?

- Yeah.
Cheers.

Detective Superintendent
Pullman, Gerry Standing, UCOS.

You know, according to
Dawn Abbot's arrest report,

she's never been charged
with anything before.

Got a completely clean record.

PULLMAN: This place must have
come as a bit of a shock, then.

I'd worked in the Union
for almost four years,

since I was 18.

PULLMAN: But you Weren't there
the night of the fire'?

It was my evening off.
I was lucky.

STANDING: Not so lucky now,
though, are you'?

I made a mistake.

PULLMAN: We can't offer you
a deal for information, Dawn.

It doesn't work like that.

I'm not looking for a deal.

PULLMAN: Why don't you think
the fire was an accident?

Because someone was after
Mark Johnson.

I never knew who or why,
but someone wanted him dead.

PULLMAN:
How do you know that?

I heard some of them
talking about it

a couple of days
before the fire.

Mark and a couple of the others.

Terry Cross was one of them.

Who also died in the fire.

Yeah.

L-I don't remember who else,

but they were taking the threat
seriously.

PULLMAN: Why didn't you
come forward earlier?

You don't tell tales
Where I come from.

You keep your head down,
look the other Way.

But I heard Johnson talking
about someone coming after him,

and two days later he was dead.

Well, do you think
that's a coincidence?

I don't think it's evidence.

You'd have to give us more
than that.

Have you got more than that?

They said it was an accident.

They said the fire spread
so quickly

'cause there was things left
in the room Where it started.

- PULLMAN: Yeah.
- Except there wasn't.

There was nothing like that
in the room.

Everything had already been
taken away.

Are you sure about that?

We were storing empty bottles
in that room.

Empty beer bottles.
Nothing that would catch alight.

I was in and out of there.

All the tools, all the paint --

Everything was gone
days before the fire.

PETFIELD:
Anyone fancy a coffee?

Not for me.
I remember what it's like.

Must be odd being back
in the heart of the nick.

We don't work from home at UCOS.

I meant an incident room.
No offense.

- None taken.
- Speak for yourself.

Look, let's start again,
shall We'?

I was the investigating officer,

so any questions you've got
on the Union fire,

anything you want to ask
at all --

Well, the witness statements
were sketchy.

There was no establishment
of a coherent timeline.

There's barely any information
about the possible motives

regarding the deaths
of the deceased.

Let's take this into my office,
shall We'?

Nice place you've got here.

There are people out there
I have to work with.

I'd prefer some privacy.

What happened
to the Witnesses, then?

Most of them Wouldn't even admit
to being there

when the fire broke out.

Those that did didn't know
anything, didn't see anything.

- And why do you think that was'?
- I know why it was.

If you've spent more than
five minutes with the file,

so do you.

Mark Johnson was a player.

Nobody talked out of turn.

Not to him, not about him.

Not even after he died.

[Exhales deeply]

This thing was dead in the water
from day one.

So given the chance,

it was just easier
to write it up as an accident?

It wasn't just me.
Forensics pointed that Way.

Forensics could have been Wrong.

I had no reason to think that.

But you might have done if you'd
spent a bit more time on it,

dug a bit deeper.

You don't know what it was like.

Operation Horatio
had just been pulled.

Feelings were running high.

Horatio.

Yeah, it was a drugs team,

set up to clamp down on supply
in West London.

Mark Johnson was a name
that kept cropping up.

We had a surveillance team
on him,

some Wiretaps,
a lot of manpower.

But we didn't find
what we needed,

not enough to build a case
against him.

Then the brass pulled the plug
about a month before the fire.

It was getting too expensive.

That must have been frustrating.

People were angry.

I Won't deny that.

And so not too upset
when Johnson turned up dead.

I don't remember anyone crying
into their beer.

They just let it go.
Petfield admitted as much.

Brushed it under the carpet.

So it's possible that
Dawn Abbott's telling the truth.

Well, if she is, the fire was
made to look like an accident,

when in fact it wasn't.

And there's nothing
in the case file

to indicate they found
anything else, is there'?

Just a couple of baseball bats
behind the bar

and a gun in the male toilets.

HALFORD:
It was that sort of place.

What do we know about
this contractor bloke, then?

- His name was Derek Ross.
- Have you contacted him'?

Not possible,
not Without a Ouija board.

Died in 2001.

But I have traced his wife.

Oh, gold star for Gerry.
[Chuckles]

But the point is, why did
the fire spread so quickly

if Ross had taken
his stuff away?

I blame Prometheus, who,
according to Greek mythology,

stole fire from Zeus
and gave it to us mere mortals.

So this is all his fault, is it'?

Yeah. If it wasn't for him you'd
be drinking your cocoa cold.

- Mind, he paid for it.
- PULLMAN: [ Sighs]

He got tied to a rock

and had his liver eaten
by an eagle day after day.

Sorry.

It's just a fascinating subject,
is fire.

I'm glad you think so, Brian.
You can come with me.

MACKIE: 1996.

August, wasn't it'?

The 4th
You remember.

I was the lead fire investigator
at the time.

Four people died.
I should.

Plus it was one
of my last cases.

I took early retirement
about six months later.

We've recently received
information

that the fire may not have been
an accident, Mr. Mackie.

- Is that right'?
- You don't sound very surprised.

- I'm not.
- PULLMAN: Why is that?

Because I suspected it was arson
at the time.

Really? 'Cause there's no
mention of that in the report.

I couldn't prove it.

Beside, the police had
other ideas.

Would you like some refreshment?

Thank you.

ROSS:
Derek was good with his hands.

He just wasn't very good
with money.

Apart from spending it,
of course.

I have to do
a couple of days a Week in here

just to keep things
ticking over.

At our age,
we should have our feet up.

Mrs. Ross, what kind of work
did your husband actually do

at the Union Club?

He was a painter and decorator.
Nothing fancy.

Do you remember the fire'?

I remember what happened
afterwards.

Derek had to talk to the police.

He had to sign a statement.

HALFORD: He must have been
badly affected by it.

Why?
It wasn't his fault.

- It was an accident.
- Of course.

It's just, um,
What, with four people dying.

He didn't talk about it,
but I suppose he Was.

That's probably why he wanted to
splash out on a holiday.

A holiday'?

We had three Weeks in Florida.

A lovely hotel.

A different restaurant
every night.

Was this soon after the fire'?

About a month later, after
all the fuss had died down.

Derek was owed some money
from some job or other.

He finally got paid,
so off we Went.

Of course, we would have been
better off saving something,

but oh, no,
it was a lovely holiday.

It was the last proper one
we had before he died.

I can see that you're pretty
adamant, Mr. Mackie,

but I'm not sure
I understand Why.

Do you know much
about fire investigation?

Afraid not.

People will tell you
it's a science nowadays.

Fluid dynamics
is what they call it.

That's true to an extent.

But it's also an art.

A good investigator will have
a feel for the fire itself.

So you felt it was arson'?

That was my first impression
when I examined the scene.

The burn patterns on the floor
and the walls

suggested multiple points
of origin.

Meaning there was
an accelerant present.

Exactly.

What about the turpentine
and paint thinner

that were meant to have been
left in the room'?

They would certainly qualify
as accelerants.

They would both burn
at very high temperatures.

Then I'm not sure I understand.

Where -- Where did this feeling
come from'?

Smoke.

Smoke?

And the flames.

The materials you mention

produce a white flame
and brown smoke.

But an onlooker reported seeing
something different --

yellow flame and black smoke.

And that's the classic
combination which is produced

when petrol burns.

They could have been mistaken.

Oh, absolutely.

Arriving at that type of blaze,
with all the people,

there's confusion,
there's panic.

But then I also found
a small amount of melted rubber

on the floor of the room.

What kind of rubber'?

Well, possibly a balloon,
but more likely a condom.

Well, a room in the back
of a drinking club.

And there was a little wax
on the floor --

from a candle, I think.

How very romantic.

Not really.

You light a candle.
Hm'?

And then you suspend
a condom over it,

filled with your accelerant
of choice.

The candle burns through
the rubber...

And releases the liquid.

It's a timer.

A crude one, but it can be
extremely effective.

So Derek Ross
came into some money

after the accident verdict?

Enough for the holiday
of a lifetime, at least.

Maybe his premium bonds came up.

The odds on that
are about 24,000 to 1.

What are the odds
that he was paid

to say he left the turpentine
and paint thinner in the room'?

Considerably shorter,
I should think.

What about this person that
Mark Johnson was worried about?

LANE: Well, we've asked for
the files on Operation Horatio,

transcripts on surveillance
of Johnson.

May give us some idea

of what was going on around him
at the time.

Was that out'?

Yeah, yeah.

You put that cigarette out'?

'Cause that bin's full of highly
flammable material, you know.

That's an inferno
waiting to happen, is that.

Here.

Happy now?

I hope you're more careful
at home.

One in three house fires is
caused by cigarettes, you know.

What about other witnesses?

HALFORD: Well, there were
30 people in that place

at the time it went up.

But according to Petfield,

he couldn't get more
than four or five to admit

that they were even there.

And none of them would be likely
to have changed their minds.

- Even now.
- I found someone who might.

David Swallow.

He was part of Johnson's mob,

and he was in the Union
that night.

Why would he help us'?

He had first-degree burns
to half his body

and spent over a year
in hospital.

That's as good a reason as any.

SWALLOW:
There was only one way out --

back down the stairs,
through the main door.

Could you tell
Where the fire started?

Not at the time.

It was so sudden.

One minute everything was
normal, and then total panic.

I remember people screaming,
fighting to get out.

And the smell.

I can still -- Even now,
I can taste that smell.

I wake up with it.
It'll never go away.

[Beeping]

[Beeping stops]

Excuse me, please, for a moment.

[Telephone rings]

Yeah.

Oh, great.
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.
Bring him down.

[Sighs]

Are you getting anywhere?

Well, most of it
is gobbledygook,

like Johnson's talking
in some kind of patois.

But there is one name
that keeps cropping up

in his conversations around the
right time -- Stuart Russell.

Well, whoever it is, Johnson's
not very happy with him.

Well, I've got that name.

Here, here...

here again.

All in the Weeks
before the fire.

Thanks.

George!

Sorry to barge in uninvited.

LANE:
Jack, this is George Mackie.

Ah.
The fire investigator.

- It's nice to meet you.
- MACKIE: Hi.

I put down a few thoughts
on the Union fire at the time.

Notes just for myself --
for reference, really.

I did so on all the fires
I investigated.

Dug it out the loft.
Thought it might be useful.

Look at that.

- Thanks very much.
-[ Laughter]

So this is the control room,
is it?

- The place Where it all happens?
- Yes. Well, something like that.

You're very kind.
Thank you very much.

LANE:
Thanks, George.

SWALLOW:
The red ones are for the pain.

The yellow ones
are for rejection.

The blue ones...
Well, I don't even remember.

Every day, twice a day.

I can barely move if I forget.

We'd like to talk to you
about Mark Johnson.

I haven't got anything to say
about him.

You don't know
what we're going to ask yet.

Who didn't like him?
Who set the fire'?

Whose fault was it
I ended up like this'?

Why do you think it was
anyone's fault, Mr. Swallow?

The official report said
it was an accident.

So what are you doing here
asking me about it, then?

I didn't have anything to say
when it happened.

What makes you think
that would have changed?

Time's passed.
Things do change.

Mark Johnson's been dead
for nearly 15 years.

He might be, but his brothers
are still around.

They'd be the first who'd want
to know what happened.

You're assuming they don't
already.

You're saying that Johnson's
brothers wanted to kill him.

Well, with Mark Johnson dead,

Danny and Karl take over
the business.

- It makes sense.
- Oh, I don't know.

What's bothering you'?

Look, they were brothers.

And not just any old brothers.
They were really close.

I mean, you look funny
at one of them,

the other two are in your face
before you know it.

Families fall out, Gerry.

See you tomorrow.

[Door closes]

My name is Jack Halford.

My name is Jack Halford.

What you doing'?

STANDING:
Fore!

Hello, Danny.

It's all right, Dom.
He's an old friend.

Well, I Wouldn't go that far.

All right.
Old acquaintance, then.

- How's that?
- That's more like it.

You here to work
on your swing, Gerry'?

No, not exactly.
No.

Well, come and hit a few.

Jojo just got a few more balls.

[Camera shutter clicking]

So why now'?

What's changed?

You lot Weren't exactly
all over it when it happened.

You Weren't interested.

No.
But we're interested now.

We've got some new information.

What kind of information?

You know I can't tell you that.

I do, but you can't blame me
for asking.

Do you know who did it, Gerry'?

You know who killed Mark'?

Not yet, no.

Whoa.
A bit hooky, son.

Listen, how's Karl these days'?

I don't see much of him anymore.

He likes the sun more than I do.

Or rather his missus does.

[Both chuckle]

He turns bright red
if he sits in the sun

for more than 10 minutes
at a time.

So business is good, eh'?

Ah, the way the world is now,
everybody needs security.

You know what the kids are like.

Always looking for an excuse
to start something.

Yeah.

Only now, of course,

you only have to share
the profits two ways, don't you'?

I mean, it's just you and Karl,
isn't it, now that Mark's dead.

What, you're saying
we were involved'?

Is that what you're saying?

That We'd kill our own brother,
our own flesh and blood'?

Did you?

I think you'd better go.

Yeah.
Maybe you're right.

I'm not on top of my game
anyway.

Thank you.

You know it wasn't us, Gerry.

You know that.

But if you do find out
who it was,

you should give me a heads-up.

I'll make it Worth your while.

Plus, on top of that, you'll
save the taxpayer a few pounds.

Think about it, Gerry.

Give me a name.

Be a win-win for everybody.

[Door closes]

What's that?

It's a new smoke alarm.

What's wrong
with the ones we've got'?

They're ionization alarms.

This is an optical unit.

What?

Well, it's more sensitive,

and it's got a carbon monoxide
detector.

- Aah!
-[Beeping loudly]

Switch it Off!

- I can't! It won't!
-[ Beeping continues]

Brian, please!

It -- It doesn't say how.

It's not in here.

Give it to me!

[Beeping continues]

[Beeping stops,
battery clatters]

It definitely works.

These were taken yesterday.

The man on the left
is Danny Johnson.

The man next to him
is obviously...

- Gerry.
- Exactly.

What's Standing doing
with Johnson?

Carrying out inquiries.

The Johnsons are involved
with the Union club fire.

How so'?

The Johnson brothers own
the club,

and the oldest, Mark,
was killed in the fire.

Who took the pictures?

An officer from the projects
team on organized crime.

They've had Danny Johnson
under surveillance.

They getting anywhere?

Nothing yet.

So obviously,
if you dig something up...

We all get to look good.

[Door closes]

According to Strickland,

the operation's been going on
for more than a year.

Well, either Danny hasn't got
anything to hide

or he doesn't know about it.

Who are the other people?

STANDING:
Couple of heavies.

And that is some kid
called Jojo.

Seems to be a general dogsbody.

Now, until I mentioned the fire,
Danny was totally relaxed --

every shot
straight down the pipe.

Oh, yeah. You must have sliced
a few, though.

I did, as it happens.
How did you know that?

Look at your right elbow.
It's all Wrong.

- Why?
- Well, here and there.

Look. It should be pointing
towards your right hip.

You're right. It's the old
flying elbow, isn't it'?

- Exactly.
-[ Clears throat]

What do we think about Danny
and Karl Johnson

being involved in the fire'?

I don't think so.

I saw Danny's eyes.
There was real hatred there.

He even offered me money
to come up with a name.

Oh, that could be
a smoke screen.

Doesn't mean
that he wasn't involved.

No, I know that.
I just don't see it.

But if they Weren't involved,
Where does that leave us'?

Well, we might have something.

We've been going over
the transcripts

of Operation Horatio,
the original team

that was trying to bring down
Mark Johnson.

HALFORD:
He was very clever.

He always did business
through somebody else.

He never got his own hands
dirty.

And when he had to talk
to someone directly,

he did it in the back
of a black cab.

- Yeah.
- He'd just hail one down.

That's Where he held
his meetings.

HALFORD: The surveillance boys
wired up a couple of cabs

and had them circling the block.

They got lucky a few times

and picked up
some of his conversations.

I thought they couldn't find
enough to use.

Well, they didn't.

But the thing is that
a few months before the fire,

the same name kept
cropping up -- Stuart Russell.

- Russell'?
- Yeah.

Why?
Do you know him'?

No, I don't think so, but I've
seen that name recently.

Who is he'?

Small-time operator
on the edge of Johnson's crew.

Oh, Russell, Russell...

According to the transcripts,

Johnson wasn't very happy
with Russell.

Why'?

Well, Johnson was also
very careful on those tapes.

Everything was hinted at.
Nothing too overt.

I've seen that name!
I know I have. Russell...

isn't that the wrong way
around --

I mean Johnson being angry
with Russell?

Well, yes, it is.

Except that six Weeks before
the fire, Russell was shot.

And there were no witnesses to
it apart from Russell himself,

and he wasn't talking.

And you think that
it was Johnson that shot him'?

Or one of his crew.

And he was discharged from
hospital a Week before the fire.

That's it!
Hospital!

When we went to see Dawn Abbott,
I was signing us in, right'?

Stuart Russell was one
of her visitors.

- Are you sure'?
- I'm positive!

It's in the book!

Hey!

[indistinct conversations]

PULLMAN:
Mr. Russell?

Yeah?

Detective Superintendent
Pullman.

This is Gerry Standing.

We'd like a word
if that's all right.

What about?

We're investigating the fire
at the Union Club back in '96.

What's that got to do with me'?

We've been talking
to Dawn Abbott,

and we know you have, too.

I went around to see her,
if that's what you mean.

It was nothing to do
with the fire.

What was it to do With'?

We're old mates. That's all.
We go back a long way.

So nothing to do
with Mark Johnson, then?

No.

And nothing to do
with you getting shot'?

Mackie's got a real eye
for detail.

Everything's Written down.
Look.

Ambient temperature outside,
Wind direction...

the chemical makeup
of everything combustible

in the building.

It's really meticulous.

Yeah. Well, Derek Ross
certainly wasn't.

I got hold
of some of his paperwork

from the people that did
his company accounts.

I'm trying to find out

Whether that cash he received
after the fire was legit,

but it's such a mess!

Well, his wife did say
he wasn't very good with money.

Yeah.
Well, she was being kind.

[Sighs]

What?

Nothing.

What'?!

No.

L-I was just wondering
why you Won't tell me

what you're lecturing about.

Standard investigative
procedures?

Well, not exactly.

Interviewing techniques?

The role of forensic science?

Serial killers.

Serial killers?

Well, they wanted blood
and gore.

They said that's what people
are really interested in.

Serial killers?

So what do you want to know?

We could start with
who shot you, Mr. Russell.

You're the police. I thought
that's supposed to be your job.

Well, you didn't give us much
to go on at the time.

No description of the gunman,
no possible motive.

I always thought it was a case
of mistaken identity myself.

STANDING: That seems fairly
unlikely given your record.

I mean, you were hardly
a Boy Scout, were you'?

I was, as it happens --
three badges.

Look, I was young and stupid.
It was a long time ago.

I had a lot of time to think
in that hospital.

A lot of time
to look at my life.

What did you see'?

Not much that I liked.

Not much at all.

So I made up my mind
to change it,

do something different --
something simpler, maybe,

but something
I could be proud of.

So completely different to what
you did for Mark Johnson.

You could say that, yeah.

How did you feel when Johnson
died, Mr. Russell?

I didn't feel anything.
Not one way or the other.

It was nothing to do with me.

Look, can I get on'?

Turned his life around.
If I've heard that once.

Maybe it's true this time.

He's not been arrested
for anything

since he came out of hospital.

He's held down a steady job.

HALFORD:
Just like Derek Ross.

For two years after the fire,
Derek Ross worked solidly --

for a minicab firm, a couple
of local bars, a takeaway.

Now, that in itself
is not unusual,

but there was a connection.

Anyone got any ideas
what that might be'?

Aren't you supposed to be
telling us'?

Gerry'?

- I don't know.
- HALFORD: How about you, Brian'?

Oh, give over.
I'm not a bloody guinea pig.

What's that mean'?

He's practicing on us.

He's lecturing at this
University of the Third Age.

Oh, thanks, Brian.

You?

Well, I just popped in to see
if they had anything on offer,

and when they found out
I was a retired copper, they...

I just got talked into it.

Good for you, Jack.

Gold star.

LANE:
Well, go on, then.

What's the connection
between them?

HALFORD:
Well, all these businesses

were controlled
by the Johnson brothers.

They probably used them
to clean their money.

But the point is,
they gave Derek Ross work.

Why would they do that
if they thought

he was at least partly
responsible for Mark's death?

JOHNSON: I expected better
from you, Gerry,

not a couple of uniforms
on my doorstep.

You're not under arrest,
Mr. Johnson.

I hope they made that clear.

No, they didn't.

- You're free to go at any time.
- Well, in that case.

Although, as we're investigating
the murder of your brother,

I'd have thought you'd be
only too willing to help.

Unless you already know
what happened.

We've had this conversation.

Only the first part.

You think I'm gonna sit here and
talk to you about my business?

No, no, no. Not your business.
Your brother.

We're not looking into
activities that you may

or may not have been involved in
at the time, Mr. Johnson.

It's not our concern.

Anything you say in this room
is strictly off the record.

I want your word on that.

- You have it.
- Not yours.

I don't know you from Adam.
I want his.

You've got it.

We're only interested
in the fire.

Well, we always knew
it wasn't an accident.

We'd had all the right
inspections.

Place was done up nice.

But there was a team of you lot
looking straight at us --

special operation.

Horatio?

That's it.
We were in the crosshairs.

What, and you knew about it'?

Of course we did.

You had an informant
within the force'?

All right. All right.
Nothing except the fire.

Now, you called off the dogs,

and you didn't have anything
on us.

Then Mark died in the fire.

And the last thing you needed
was another investigation.

Yeah. We didn't want to risk it.
We couldn't.

So you paid Derek Ross to say
that he'd left turps and paint

in that room at the Union'?

Yeah. Make it look
like it was an accident.

I mean, it was easy enough.

He worked in the place
a couple of days before.

He was happy to earn
a bit extra.

Soon as he told you lot that,
the whole thing disappeared.

Which meant you could go back
to business as usual.

There was nothing usual
about it.

Mark was dead.

Turned over every rock
we could think of.

Just couldn't find anything.

And because you Wouldn't talk
to the police,

you let his killer get away
with it.

Yeah.
Mark knew how it was.

He would have understood.

Thank you.

Can I help you'?

Yeah.
Can I h--

I'll have a packet of those.

This one'?

Down a bit.

Right.

Condoms?

Yeah.

Normal? Ribbed?
Extra sensitive?

[Exhales deeply]

Brian'?

Brian'?

LANE:
Bloody hell.

What now'?

Ah.

And?

And I'm getting through them,
I can tell you.

But it's not
what you're thinking.

The fire was started using
some kind of timing device.

It seems simple enough.

Oh, aye.
Seems simple.

But the thing is...

It's not as easy as it looks.

How many times
have you tried it'?

Four.
Each time, the same result.

The flame just goes out.

It can't be that hard.

Have you got another condom?

Shh!

So if anythings not exactly
right, then it doesn't work.

And Where does
this GCSE experiment

actually get us, Brian'?

I don't know, but it seems to me
that whoever set the fire

either got very lucky or they
might have done it before.

Just a thought.

Oh, my God.

Mr. Swallow?

Mr. Swallow?!

Get out the Way.
Get out the Way.

[Grunting]

- F.H.
- WOMAN: Over.

Detective Superintendent Pullman
on scene

at number 6 Gordon House, W3.

Mr. Swallow?

PULLMAN: There's smoke
billowing out the door,

and we think someone is trapped
inside.

STANDING: ls there anybody here'?
[Coughs]

PULLMAN:
Gerry'? [Coughs]

STANDING:
[Coughs]

You all right'?

Yeah.
Just a bit of smoke in my lungs.

Is he in there'?

I couldn't see.
The smoke's too thick.

Have a look.

What happened'?

What does it look like?

I was in the pub.

[ Explosion, alarms blaring]

I could have been...

Very easily.

It looks like someone
doesn't like you very much.

Are you ready to tell us who,
Mr. Swallow?

I didn't set fire to the Union.
Look at me.

PULLMAN: You'll have to do
better than that.

You must have heard of
poetic justice.

[inhales deeply]

Stuart Russell
wanted Mark Johnson dead.

Russell set the fire'?

Oh, I don't know that.

But how do you know
he wanted Johnson dead'?

Because he asked me
to shoot him.

Stuart was branching out.

He was dealing drugs
but using the Johnson name.

They Weren't gonna have that.

Which is why they tried
to kill him.

Yeah.

But he survived.

He wanted revenge.

He hid a gun in the Union,
in the gents'.

I was meant to use it.

Why would you do that for him'?

Stuart wasn't working alone.

What, you were involved as Well?

Up to my neck.

But Stuart never told anybody,
even when he nearly died.

So you thought that you owed him
for being loyal to you'?

Oh, I did owe him.

If he told anybody -- anybody --

I'd have been in hospital
next to him or Worse, probably.

I really appreciate you
taking a look at this, George.

I'm glad to help.

So, I thought if --

Excuse me.
This is still a restricted area.

I'm Brian Lane.
I'm from UCOS.

And who's this'?

I'm George Mackie.

I used to do your job.

Well, it was a...a While ago.

Special adviser.

Well, I shouldn't, but, um...
come on.

So what happened'?

Why didn't you shoot
Mark Johnson?

I just -- I couldn't do it.

I thought I could, but when it
came down to it, I just...

Truth is, I bottled it.

I didn't even pick up the gun.

I just left it there.

Did you tell Russell
that you Weren't going to do it'?

Did you tell him that you were
pulling out, Mr. Swallow?

Yeah.

Yeah, I did.

Well, there are obvious signs
of flashover.

It was clearly an intense heat.

What about accelerants'?

Nothing yet.

MACKIE:
It was a rapid spread.

Signs of flashes.

You'd expect there would
probably be something...

...like this.

What is it'?

It's wax, from a candle.

Looks like it.

That's the same method
as the Union fire.

It was there, on the floor,
just like in the Union fire.

What, candle Wax'?

Yeah.
A little piece.

A tiny little piece.

Well, it's hardly
conclusive proof

that it was the same person
who set both fires.

No, but it would makes sense if
that person was Stuart Russell.

PULLMAN: Because Swallow agreed
to shoot Johnson,

then decided he couldn't
go through with it.

What, and Russell takes it
into his own hands?

Yep.

A candle, a condom,
a little bit of lighter fuel.

And whoosh.

Mark Johnson dies.
Russell gets what he wanted.

Except when we started digging,

he became worried
that Swallow might talk.

Well, it's possible.

You do know Swallow takes a load
of different drugs, don't you'?

They're prescription.

Yeah, but you don't know
what they might do.

Everything has side effects.

We're not here to discuss
his medication.

Maybe you should be.

It's obviously done something
to his memory.

Are you saying he's lying'?

"Lying" is a strong word.

More likely he's just confused,
a bit hazy about the details.

He seems to remember
you getting shot very clearly.

And you wanting revenge
on Johnson.

It's a long time ago.

I Wouldn't take it
very seriously.

It's our job to take it
seriously, Mr. Russell.

And you should, too.

In that case,
I'll be as clear as I can.

I didn't try and kill Johnson.
I didn't set any fires.

- Is that enough for you'?
- No, not quite.

Let's go back to Where you were
at lunchtime.

I told you --
I bought a sandwich.

I went and sat in the park.

I like a bit of peace and quiet
during the day.

Did you see anyone there'?

- Not to talk to.
STANDING: That's convenient.

Well, it's the truth, isn't it'?
Unless there's anything else.

We'll be in touch.

Your theory is that Johnson
shot me.

That's right, because you were
using his name.

In which case he probably
didn't like me very much.

PULLMAN:
I shouldn't think he did.

How exactly am I meant to have
hidden a gun in his club, then?

Uh, two pints of bitter
and a fizzy water please.

Two'?

Oh, sorry.

One pint of bitter
and a fizzy water.

I was forgetting.

I think Russell's right,
you know.

It Wouldn't have been easy
to plant that gun in there.

We know Johnson was very keen
on security.

Yeah, but Where there's a will,
there's a Way.

But why would he want
to set fire to the place?

Well, he wanted Johnson dead,
and Swallow pulled out.

Yeah, but just by setting
a fire,

he couldn't be sure that it
would kill Johnson, could he'?

There was no way of knowing.

Maybe he just got lucky.

Very lucky, as Jack said.

Do you think he'll be all right'?

- Who?
- Jack.

Oh, yeah.

What if no bugger turns up'?
[Laughs]

No. That's not going to happen,
is it?

- Cheers.
- Cheers.

Been looking forward to this
all day.

How can we know, though?

What if he's all
on his lonesome?

There's nothing We can do
about it.

He didn't tell us Where it is.

We're detectives, Gerry.

Yes, Brian.
And I'm having a pint.

STANDING: Blimey. Are all these
people here to see Jack'?

LANE:
No. They can't be.

There must be something else
going on.

Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd
like to take your seats,

then we can begin.

Thank you very much.

- They bloody are, you know.
- What?

Oh, come on, then.
Let's sit down.

What for'?

Well, we're here now, aren't we'?

- HALFORD: [ Clears throat]
- Bit of moral support.

HALFORD:
Good evening. [Chuckles]

Good evening,
ladies and gentlemen.

My name is Jack Halford,
and I'm a retired detective.

I spent over 30 years
as a police officer

investigating a wide range
of criminals.

He's good, isn't he'?

Including, on occasion,

individuals who might be
described as serial killers,

which is the subject
of today's talk.

If we ignore
the special circumstances

surrounding the Harold Shipman
case,

we will find that Britain's
most prolific serial killer

was Dennis Nilsen.

- It's not true.
- What?

Um, Nilsen was arrested
in February 1983,

but his killing spree had
started some five years earlier.

The most prolific killer
isn't Nilsen.

Shh.

[Whispers]
Peter Dinsdale.

HALFORD: Um, Nilsen worked
as a civil servant.

He was quiet and unassuming.

Not the sort of person you would
give a second glance to.

And yet he murdered 15 people.

Dinsdale murdered
nearly twice that many.

After -- After cutting up
their bodies,

he then disposed of them
under the floorboards

and in the drains
of his property.

-26 people Dinsdale killed.
- Shut up.

And -- And when the --
the police came to arrest him --

Nearly twice as many.

I'm sorry.
Mister...

Yes, you, in the coat.

Mister...

Well, you know who I am.

You have something to say'?

Perhaps you'd like to share it
with the rest of us.

No.

Oh! What a shame.

I'm sure We'd all love to have
heard what you had to say.

It was nothing.

It must have been something!

- And what's that?
- What?

That -- That piece of paper.
That note he handed to you.

I'm sure we're all dying to find
out what was Written in that.

Well'?

No, no, no.
It's nothing to do with me.

Well, it must be to do with you,
because you Wrote it!

I said...

I was just saying

that Britain's most prolific
serial killer isn't Nilsen.

Really?!

It's Peter Dinsdale.

Dinsdale was convicted
of manslaughter, not murder.

He killed 26 people.

Are you telling me
that doesn't count?

Not at all.
But Dinsdale was an arsonist.

The deaths were a by-product
of the fire.

He did not set out
to kill people.

Which is why it took so long
to catch him.

The investigations concentrated
on the victims

and who wanted them dead
rather than the fire itself.

And some of them were deemed
accidental,

and they were not linked
for years.

But the point is...

The point is...this is not
the time nor the place

for this discussion.

[Whispers]
Sit down.

I apologize,
ladies and gentlemen.

Now, Where were We'?

You see, the investigations
focused on the victims

and who wanted them dead
rather than on the fire itself.

The problem was that Dinsdale

wasn't targeting anyone
in particular.

It wasn't about the victims.

It was about the fire
and what happened afterwards.

Afterwards'?
- Yeah.

He'd turn up
when the fire engines arrived,

and he'd stand in the crowd
and Watch them fight the blaze.

He wanted to be a part of it,
you see.

He wanted to be involved.

And that's partly what drove him
to set the fires

in the first place.

[Chuckles]

Thank you.

Very much.

- A serial arsonist'?
- HALFORD: It's a possibility.

We found seven similar fires
in pubs and clubs

before and after the Union fire.

But you don't have evidence

connecting them
to any individual'?

LANE:
Not yet.

We'd have to start again
from scratch,

look at things
in a completely different Way.

Yeah, but you don't have
any evidence.

We just told you.

I don't mean a theory, Brian.

I mean something
that we can prove.

We've already got
a solid suspect.

Well, how did Russell get
that gun into the Union'?

I don't know, Jack.
We'll just have to find out.

[Sighs]

[Buzzer sounds]

WILDE:
Hello'?

Mrs. Wilde'?

Yep.

Detective Superintendent
Pullman.

I'd like a word with you
if that's all right.

[Lock clicks, buzzer sounds]

You took your time.

Excuse me'?

I don't know what's going on
upstairs,

but there are people coming
and going all night --

It's not about upstairs,
Mrs. Wilde.

It's about your daughter Hailey.

We're reinvestigating the fire
at the Union Club,

and I was wondering if I could
have a few minutes of your time.

Thank you.

WILDE:
Hailey had been in some trouble

but no more than any others
around here.

The difference was she wanted to
do something about it.

She was going to go back
to college.

The job was
just to tide her over.

Just -- Just weekends
to earn some money.

She wanted to make
a clean start,

but she never got the chance.

Did she ever talk to you
about the job'?

People she met'?
Anything like that?

Sometimes.
[Laughs]

She said it could get pretty
rowdy in there some nights.

Did she ever mention a man
called Russell --

Stuart Russell?

I don't think so.
Who is he'?

He was an associate
of Mark Johnson's.

He used to drink in the Union
from time to time.

- She probably would've seen him.
- Don't remember the name.

Well, I appreciate your time,
Mrs. Wilde.

Your child doesn't die
before you.

They don't do it.

It's unnatural.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Did you say weekends,
Mrs. Wilde --

- Hailey only worked weekends?
- Yeah. That's right.

But the fire was on a Thursday.

She wasn't even meant
to be there.

She wasn't working that night.

But she got a call.
They needed her to come in.

Who called?
Do you know?

Dawn.
Dawn -- Dawn Abbott.

She was a friend of Hailey's.

She, uh, she got her the job.

Jojo was sick.

Who's Jojo?

Dawn's son.

His name's John, but everybody's
always called him Jojo.

Dawn needed Hailey
to work her shift.

We seem to have
a little problem, Dawn.

What's that?

You haven't told us everything
you know.

In fact, you've left out
some rather salient details.

Well, like what?

Like you were supposed to be
working the night of the fire.

Like it was supposed to be you
behind that bar,

not Hailey Wilde.

I didn't know anything about
the fire. I swear I didn't.

But you knew something
was going to happen, didn't you'?

Because Stuart Russell asked you
to take a gun into the club.

Didn't he'?

Come on.

It's the only way he could have
got a Weapon in there.

He needed someone on the inside,
and that someone was you.

Look, Mark was always wary.

He knew there were plenty of
people who'd take a swing at him

or -- or worse
if they had a chance.

I brought the gun in.
I-l was on the inside.

How far inside?

Did you know about Ross'?

Did you know that Danny and Karl
had paid him off'?

It was obvious when he said all
his stuff was still in the room.

They set the fire and tried to
make it look like an accident.

No.

What?

Danny and Karl Johnson
didn't set that fire.

You've been pushing us
in that direction,

but that's not what happened.

What have you got against them'?

But it's not that, though,
is it?

It's what they've got of yours.

It's about your son, Jojo.

They'll just use him up
and spit him out.

He doesn't understand that.

He thinks it's exciting.
He -- He thinks he's a big man.

But he's just a boy.
That's all he is.

So that's why you decided
to come forward.

You believe that Danny and Karl
are guilty,

and you thought
if we found that out,

then Jojo would have to find
a newline of work.

He doesn't listen to me.

L-I've tried, but he doesn't
hear what I'm saying.

And you thought
We'd shout louder.

That's not what we're here for.

They Weren't yours, were they?

The drugs --
the reason you're in here.

They were Jojo's.

You did all of this for him.

He's my son.

I'm his mother.
I'm meant to protect him.

PULLMAN:
Hi, Jack.

Can you and Brian get over
to Stuart Russell's place

and make sure he doesn't go
anywhere before I arrive?

Yeah. And get Gerry to meet us
there, too.

Cheers.
Bye.

Am I actually under arrest'?

As we explained,

we're waiting for Detective
Superintendent Pullman.

Well, you really didn't need to
come upstairs with me.

We're under strict instructions
not to let you out of our sight.

What, both of you'?

-[ Doorbell rings]
- I'll go.

STANDING:
You all right'?

We're upstairs with Russell.

- Where's the kitchen?
- Through there.

- I'll put the kettle on.
- All right. Good lad.

- I'll have tea.
- All right.

I'll have a sugar this time.
Put it in before the milk.

All right.

Boys!

Jack!

Brian!

What's going on'?

We've got to get out of here.

- Jack!
- The bloody house is on fire!

STANDING:
Go there!

No! Back! Get back!
Get in there!

Close that door.
Close it!

[Coughs] Yes. Yes.
It is 79 Hambrook Road.

Thank you.

[indistinct conversations]

[Coughing]

STANDING:
Open that Window.

[Siren wailing]

I don't understand it.
We didn't hear a thing.

STANDING:
Don't worry about that now.

We've got to stop this smoke
getting in here.

[Siren wailing]

[Men shouting]

MAN: Bring the hose
up to the front door!

This window's locked!

[Coughs]

Get up.
Get up.

Brian, out the Way.

[Men shouting]

Detective Superintendent
Pullman.

- I'm looking for...
-[ Glass breaking]

[Coughing]

MAN:
Stand back, folks.

I really appreciate you
coming in.

I'm happy to help.

We've been looking through
your notes.

Were they of any use to you'?

Very interesting.

Good, good.

So how is
the investigation going?

It's taken an unexpected turn,

so we were rather hoping
we could pick your brains.

Anything I can do.

We think we've been looking
at this the wrong way --

at the victims
instead of at the fire itself.

We've found seven similar fires.

We think we might be dealing
with a serial arsonist.

PULLMAN: Someone who's been
active for two decades or more.

But that's not really our area
of expertise.

Which is why we called you.

Well, arson is
a very specialized crime.

LANE:
Exactly.

So we thought you might be able

to give us some kind of a handle
on it.

STANDING:
Use your years of experience

and tell us about the type of
person we should be looking for.

Well, first of all, he'd be
meticulous, a careful planner.

Obsessive?

Others might say that,
but I Wouldn't.

He'd be intelligent.

PULLMAN: He'd have to be
to get away with it for so long.

And of course he'd have to know
about fires.

LANE:
Yeah. How to set them.

How they burn.

I mean, using that
candle-and-condom trick

wasn't very easy.

- I tried it.
- He'd be an expert, all right.

He'd have to feel at home
with fire, comfortable with it.

That's right.

What about his motivation?

What would drive him'?

That's hard to say.

The excitement?
The thrill?

I suppose it's possible.

Perhaps he was desperate
to feel important.

Important?
I-l don't...

"We light them.
We fight them."

We what?

That was the slogan
of four American firefighters

who were found guilty of arson.

They'd light the fires,
then wait for the call

and go and put them out.

PULLMAN: They wanted to be
the center of the action,

the center of attention.

Heroes, men who saved the day.

Is that what you wanted, George'?

Me'?

You think that I...

We know you did.

PULLMAN: The fires stopped
after you retired.

But then we came to you
for help.

So we were the spark,
Weren't We'?

A serial arsonist.

It could be anyone.

PULLMAN:
No, it couldn't.

It could only be somebody
who saw the names on that board.

HALFORD: Someone who knew that
David Swallow and Stuart Russell

were part of our investigation.

You were a fire investigator,
but it wasn't enough.

No. You wanted to turn up
and be in charge.

You wanted everyone
to look at you.

No.

HALFORD: You had to be in
control, the top man.

- That's what made you excited.
- No. You're Wrong.

You had to feel important.

Feel important?!

I was...

I was important.

I was!

He's put his hand up
to setting 63 fires.

-63?
- Yeah.

Including the Union club,
of course.

How did he know about Swallow
and Russell?

They Weren't hard to find.

What about the Johnson brothers?

Victims in this case,
I'm afraid, sir, not perps.

Never mind.
We'll get them next time.

- Oh, Jack, can I have a word'?
- Yes, sir.

I heard about your lectures.

News travels fast.

- I think it's fantastic.
Really'?

And it made me think -- all that
experience you've got up here,

all that knowledge --
What better to do with it

than to pass it on to
junior officers, new recruits?

Oh, no, sir. I don't think
that's a very good --

Let me tell you -- Let me tell
you what I'm thinking.

A weekly talk, perhaps,
with a Q&A at the end.

But, sir, it was just a one-off,
sir.

A chance for them
to pick your brain.

It would really be
an opportunity to --

[Bell ringing]

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I say it's okay #

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