Original subtitles

[dramatic drum beat]

...13, and it's even worse 'cause...

[laughter]

[Marc] There were multiple times

where there was a rumbling and a rumor

around Bill Cosby, and it went away.

And then Hannibal Buress...

[laughter]

[Marc] But for whatever reason,

when Hannibal Buress mentions Bill Cosby

and talks about this stuff, it explodes.

-Bill Cosby-- -Whoa, did you hear--

Yeah, oh, no, it's-- they heard.

-Yeah. -Everybody heard.

Everybody heard. That's what happened.

That's what happened.

Nobody heard, and then everybody heard.

[Marc] And suddenly,

this is no longer a rumbling underneath the ground.

This is now a full-blown explosion

that everybody has to deal with.

When I saw the video, I was just like,

"What the hell is he talking about?

A rapist?" I'm like, "Oh, ugh. Ugh."

For once, these women thought

that somebody was listening to them.

[laughter]

It is super important to bear in mind

that Hannibal Buress is not just a man.

He is a Black man.

A man spoke up for what he did to women.

We got a special guest in the building.

[DJ] The man who destroyed Bill Cosby's career.

-Oh, my goodness. -[DJ] Don't start like that.

[Gloria] Why Hannibal Buress?

I don't really care whether it took a man or a woman.

It had its impact.

Percussive jazz music

[laughter]

[Kamau] Yep, I remember this.

I know Hannibal a little bit,

so I was clear on one thing:

he was not trying to take down Bill Cosby.

...it wasn't even a fully developed bit.

-It was still-- -[laughter]

[Kamau] He was just doing that thing that comics do:

taking shots at a sacred cow.

[cheers and applause]

And this ain't the first time

a Black comic had a problem with Bill Cosby.

Do you watch The Bill Cosby Show?

[audience] Yes!

I do too. I love Bill Cosby Show.

I've been a big fan of Bill Cosby all my life.

Never met the man before,

but he called me up about a year ago

and chastised me on the phone for being too dirty.

[as Cosby] "I would like

to talk to you...

about some of the things

that you do in your show.

You cannot say

filth, flarn, filth, flarn, filth in front of people."

And I said, "I never said no filth, flarn, filth."

He says, "You know what I'm talking about.

I can't use the type of language that you use,

but you know what I mean when I say filth,

flarn, flarn, flarn, filth."

And I said, "I never said no filth, flarn, filth.

And I don't know what you're talking about.

I'm offended that you called. Fuck you."

[Godfrey] For some reason,

Cosby's able to get people's numbers.

That's what I want to know.

How the fuck is he getting people's numbers?

That's the weirdest shit.

Like, "I got your number. Don't ask why.

I know everything. Doopa-doopa-dop."

I was so mad, I called Richard Pryor's house up

and said, "Yo, Richard, Bill Cosby just called me up

and told me I was too dirty."

And Richard said, "The next time motherfucker call,

tell him I said suck my dick."

[laughter]

[Chris] It was fucked up.

He's this young guy doing comedy,

and this old dude, who he looked up to,

calls him and says,

"You need to stop talking like this,"

and, you know, the filth, flarn, the filth.

And he was like, "Fuck you. Who are you?"

That shit was crazy,

and he was just dogging different Black comedians.

That is when I think people started going,

"Why is our hero shitting on us?"

I think one of the most embarrassing ones,

where I thought he got a little bit overboard,

was when Wanda Sykes--

she's walking around talking to people

at the Emmys,

and she's just interviewing people.

[Wanda] Mr. Cosby, Ray Romano is presenting you your award.

So what, was Nipsey Russell busy tonight?

[laughter]

Nipsey could use some work.

You know, you got Larry David sitting behind--

you know, Larry don't know what he doing.

You know that? His show all improvised.

Like, The Cosby Show, that was all scripted.

Yeah, we spoke English.

"We spoke English."

Damn!

I don't even--I--

and Wanda recovered from it.

But oh, my God, I wouldn't have gone back out.

Mr. Cosby can be a little smug.

[laughs]

Bill Cosby's tactics were really to bully people.

Bill Cosby. Welcome, sir.

Bill Cosby always thought

that he was almost better than other people,

because he was so clean

and because he did present himself to the world

in a certain kind of way.

You're not crazy about the press

and the way it's doing-- handling its job in America.

No, because they lie.

He made it clear that he did not like it

when people wrote critically of him.

If you criticize Bill Cosby,

he's gonna do everything he can to shut you down,

and there were a lot of people afraid of that.

Some reporter says-- criticizes you

or says something that's not quite true,

some people will say, "What do you care?"

I don't like anybody having fun with me

because they're jealous.

There were several instances

where he would call reporters himself,

making mild threats about, you know,

a reporter's work,

and a reporter needed to retract a story.

That's frightening.

Don't get upset with me

because you decide to become a journalist

and you're only making $700 a week,

so you begin to tear up somebody

who's making $60 million a year,

that you begin to dislike that person.

It is--it's dishonest.

I was a new professor at Temple,

and he had given a speech at Spelman College,

talking about Black men being irresponsible.

...are dropping out of high school.

[Marc] Sending their sperm out everywhere.

But they know how to send their sperm cells out.

[Marc] You know, just basically talking

about Black men being these...

social problems.

And so I wrote an op-ed

challenging and criticizing Bill Cosby.

The next day, I get a phone call from my dean.

I'm an untenured new professor.

"Professor Hill, Bill Cosby has called me,

he's called the provost, he's called the president,

and he's asking why you would do this,

and he's asking if you are tenured,"

which I took as a threat,

'cause there ain't a couple reasons to ask--

it's like if somebody in the hood asks you,

"What size them"--you know, "What size your sneakers?"

It's like they sizing you up to see how vulnerable you are.

Then he calls the education college

and says, "I want to start giving a talk

to teachers on a regular basis

about how they should talk to their students."

Mind you, he's never taught a class in his life.

I decide, "You know what? I'll go."

So then I sit through it.

So I go up to him.

"Dr. Cosby, my name's Marc Lamont Hill."

He turns and looks at me, puts his sunglasses on,

and then turns like this.

Won't face me. Turns away from me.

I said, "Dr. Cosby, I wrote this piece,

and I want you to recognize that I appreciate

what you do for our community.

I just want to focus on the structural stuff

and not the individual stuff.

The personal responsibility stuff, I think,

can't be the only story we tell.

We gotta do both."

And I'm expecting him to, you know, engage me.

And instead he says, without looking at me,

"Mr. Hill"--

he's Dr. Cosby, but I got to be Mr. Hill,

and I got a real PhD.

"Mr. Hill, was I fucking with you?"

And I was like, "No."

And he was like, "Then why you up here fucking with me?"

Like, all North Philly came out of him, right?

And then the next day, I go to my office,

and there's a note for me from my dean again.

And he said, "Yeah, Bill Cosby called.

He said that he tried to have a talk with you,

but you just wouldn't listen."

That's Bill Cosby.

[Maureen] In 2014,

NBC announced that it was creating

a new family sitcom with Bill Cosby at the center.

NBC was like, "Great, maybe we're gonna catch fire

once again with another Cosby show,"

even though on the Internet for any executive to see

was rape allegations against Bill Cosby

and even rape allegations on NBC on The Today Show.

He produced two capsules in his hand,

but I thought nothing of it and I--

[Maureen] This stuff was out there.

No one wanted to grapple with it.

...you know, and that's how the actual assault began.

If multiple news pieces are out there in the media

and you still made that fucking deal,

what kind of monsters are you?

Yeah, see, now, there's a whole new culture.

[Kamau] Most of us weren't grappling with it back then.

Bill Cosby was still America's dad.

For me, when you were cursing, I started crying.

[Kamau] He was still Black America's angry grandpa.

The kid could be busted tonight--

[Kamau] But something about Hannibal's joke

plus grainy cellphone footage

plus this new era of social media was explosive.

[reporter] The video of comedian Hannibal Buress

went viral.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, that's...

Hannibal Buress.

[reporter] The spark that seemed

to ignite an explosion--

[Renée] It put the lie to his sanctimony.

How dare you criticize anyone else?

Yeah, my pants might be sagging,

but I ain't never raped nobody.

I could hear his anger about the hypocrisy

of being preached to.

Now, suddenly, it's on Twitter

and Facebook and YouTube,

and suddenly what could have been a blip

is now a full-blown media scandal.

[reporter] That unleashed an anti-Cosby blizzard of--

[Kamau] Now, many people remember Hannibal's joke

as being the thing that took down Bill Cosby,

but that's not true.

Bill Cosby was still doing Bill Cosby things.

Just a few weeks later,

Bill and Camille were promoting

and exhibition of their art at the Smithsonian,

like nothing weird was going on.

And there were lots of media interviews

about the art, like it was business as usual.

That thing is so wonderful.

[Kamau] A couple journalists did manage to ask questions

about Hannibal's joke.

[reporter] I have to ask about your name

coming up in the news recently regarding this comedian.

No, no, we don't answer that.

[reporter] Okay.

[Kamau] At the time,

those clips didn't see the light of day.

-Thank you. -[Kamau] 'Cause...

Thank you.

Now, can I get something from you?

[reporter] What's that?

That none of that will be shown.

[reporter] I-- [sighs]

I can't promise that myself, but you didn't say anything--

I know I didn't say anything,

but I'm asking your integrity

that since I didn't want to say anything,

but I did answer you in terms of

"I don't want to say anything,"

of what value will it have?

-I don't think it will-- -Ma'am, what'd you say?

-Sorry? -What did you say?

[person] I don't think it has any value either.

Yeah.

And I would appreciate it if it was scuttled.

[reporter] I hear you.

I will tell that to my editors,

and I think that they will understand.

Well, I think if you want to consider yourself

-to be serious... -[reporter] Mm-hmm.

...that it will not appear anywhere.

Okay.

And I think you need to get on the phone with his...

-[person] I will, yeah. -...person immediately.

-[person] Okay. -Okay, thank you.

At that particular point in time,

it was sort of the perfect storm.

It was my opportunity to tell my story.

[Kamau] Now, even though Hannibal's joke

got people talking,

it was Barbara Bowman's op-ed

that led other survivors to come forward.

Monday morning, when it hit the paper,

it went viral.

[reporter] The man who became known as America's dad

now facing a variety of troubling allegations.

I was hovering over the toilet bowl.

[reporter] Women coming forward with shocking claims.

[reporter] Two women have come forward,

publicly accusing him of sexual assault.

The next morning, I woke up,

and I wasn't wearing my pajamas

[reporter] She is the fourth woman

to come forward in recent weeks.

In his hand, he had two big, large, white pills.

[reporter] More trouble for Bill Cosby.

Another woman has come--

He grabbed me, like--

He poured a beverage for me, an alcoholic beverage.

He had his hand on the back of my head--

...this very predatory, intense look.

[reporter] ...accusing comedian Bill Cosby

of drugging and raping her.

I wanted to leave. I wanted to get out of there.

Oh, my God.

[reporter] A woman comes forward claiming

Cosby sexually assaulted her decades ago.

-I don't remember any of it. -He said, "I'm Bill Cosby."

[reporter] Another accusation of sexual assault--

[reporter] Another woman has come forward...

The room started to spin.

[reporter] More trouble for Bill Cosby.

[reporter] At least 15 women have accused

the 77-year-old of sexual assault.

I had no interest in sex of any kind with Bill Cosby.

[reporter] Cosby drugged and assaulted them decades ago.

I was drugged and raped by Bill Cosby.

[reporter] ...claimed she was drugged and raped by Cosby.

-Bill Cosby made me a victim.

-This was not-- -I said, "Where's my dress?"

[reporter] ...and the number of women

leveling charges against him is growing.

I was barely conscious.

[reporter] The accusations just keep coming.

-...with no clothes... -He said, "You owe me."

[reporter] The actor and comedian has been accused

by more than 50 women.

soft music

For as shocking as it was that he would have,

you know, cheated on his wife,

you were able to sort of rationalize that

and say, "Well, Bill Cosby is a superstar.

He has been famous for about fifty-leven years.

It's not totally inconceivable

that even Bill Cosby

has fallen short of the glory of God, as they say."

But this was something else.

You start hearing about-- wait, what?

That not only did he cheat,

but he might have actually been,

you know, a predator?

He might have violated women? This guy?

It was impossible to comprehend, impossible.

It was just like, "No, not Bill Cosby."

It was very easy to believe

that a white world

that can't be trusted generally

as it relates to matters of race

would be more than willing

to air

grievances against Cosby

that had some other kind of ulterior motive.

Lot of conspiracy theories pop out about Bill Cosby.

Maybe the most popular one is that he was about to buy NBC

when these allegations come up.

And, you know, they were not gonna allow a Black man

to have that much power in media.

And so they just,

I don't know, hired 68 women or something

to lie about him.

[Marc] And there was no indication

that NBC was gonna sell to him anyway.

And just to be clear,

NBC doesn't have to sell it to him.

So the logic of it is bizarre,

but we go to such extravagant lengths

to avoid the obvious,

which is that someone did harm,

and they need to be held accountable.

[Kamau] Lots of us had a hard time accepting this.

But for many people,

this July 2015 New York magazine cover

was the moment the allegations

really hit home.

35 women and an empty chair

to symbolize the women who hadn't come forward.

But for many Black folks,

this just a white magazine we don't read.

How can we trust this?

[Don] Kierna Mayo...

[Kamau] It took a Black magazine

and, more importantly, a Black woman

to jump-start the conversation

in our community.

The Cosby story was reaching a crescendo.

All 60 women had not come out at the time,

but there were enough that we couldn't deny

that the most urgent conversation

was centered around Cosby.

We know that we need to disrupt the idea

that this family is still intact,

'cause not only are the Huxtables

no longer intact,

but our families, Black families,

as a result of this conversation, feel broken.

People are pretty upset tonight

about the cover of November's EBONY magazine.

[Kierna] We realized that being EBONY magazine,

the oldest Black publication,

the most venerable Black publication in the country,

that we just had a real serious responsibility.

Because EBONY itself had a legacy,

and that legacy usually was about uplift.

That legacy prior to that moment

had not been about critical analysis.

It had been about Black excellence on display.

So it was scary as hell,

and almost immediately,

we started getting a lot of criticism.

People are mad.

I mean, they are mad at this cover

because they believe that EBONY magazine,

I think, is supposed to show glowing images

all the time of African Americans.

[Kierna] And so that began an onslaught of attacks

directed toward me personally.

But at the time, the best we could do

was think about a way that we could anchor this

so that it was unavoidable,

so that every household in America,

to the extent that Black folks

were still subscribing to EBONY,

they had to engage.

There was no more running, you know?

The only way out is through.

soft tense music

I have been in this business 52 years,

and I will--

I've never seen anything like this.

This is about the obliteration of legacy.

In America, still-- I know it's a shock,

but you actually were innocent

-Until proven guilty. -Until proven guilty.

This story, initially,

was seen as white women

accusing a Black man

of sexual impropriety.

And that, for African Americans,

caused us to go, "Hold up.

What's going on here?"

As Black people,

we gonna give you about 15 chances.

You know what I mean? R. Kelly? Bullshit!

OJ? Come on!

We don't give in that easy.

You really gonna have to have some scientific proof

that this really happened, 'cause they know--

We know they love taking down our heroes.

So I just didn't think that this guy,

Mr. Huxtable, Mr. Jell-O Pudding,

was doing this to these women.

Black men have generally not been standing up to defend us.

They haven't, and unfortunately,

it's very sad for me to say, but it has been the Black man

who has been my worst enemy in this.

Just attacking me, blaming, shaming me.

Like, "How dare you speak out against Bill Cosby?

He's an icon."

[Kamau] Look, I know Lili is telling the truth

'cause I've seen it.

America has a history and a present

of turning its back on Black women,

and women overall,

who experience sexual assault and rape.

[applause]

And unfortunately for many Black men,

we feel like we know Bill Cosby,

so we want to take up for him.

[reporter] ...claims she was drugged and raped by Cosby.

[Kamau] And since we don't know these women,

we don't take up for them.

That's the frustrating part.

Sometimes you don't believe until rape or sexual assault

happens to someone you know.

I didn't believe none of them women.

Whatever it was, 36 women. I was like, "Yeah."

And they were like, "All the stories match."

I go, "She heard her yesterday on The Today Show,

and she heard her on Good Morning America,

and she read about her in L.A. Times,

and they made their stories match.

It wasn't until...

I saw Beverly Johnson's interview.

Please welcome Beverly Johnson.

And the way her face looked.

And I'm friends with her. I play golf with her.

She said--I think--

I can't remember why she said it.

She said she went to go visit him...

And then he started to make this cappuccino

and offered me a cup of cappuccino...

[Chris] He gave her a drink.

I really don't want to drink it.

And he insisted that I drink this cappuccino.

[Chris] And she drank it...

So I took a sip of the cappuccino

and I said, "Hmm."

And at that moment, I knew I had been drugged.

[Chris] And then she looked at him and said...

You're a [bleep].

"You motherfucker."

And the way she said that shit made me go,

"Okay, there may be something to it."

I was like, "Oh, they're lying

or exaggerating.

I know that shit did not happen like that."

But then what happened was,

I bump into this friend from years ago.

"Oh, hey, before you go,

can I ask you something?"

"Go ahead, ask."

"So back in the day,

you know, you were really close with Bill

and I just was curious,

did he ever try anything with you?"

Silence, tears start coming down.

So we sit in my car, and, I don't know,

it was an hour later, something like that,

she spilled it all out,

and she says to me, "Do you believe me?"

And said, "Yes, I believe you."

She wasn't lying.

So he at least did it to her, and if he did it to her,

then yes, I believe that there were other women

who were claiming-- I believe them.

[Kamau] And I get where the backlash comes from,

because America has regularly

and repeatedly wrongfully accused,

wrongfully imprisoned, and straight-up murdered

Black men for nothing.

So out of that comes a general feeling

in the Black community

that Black men need to be protected at all costs,

even if their crimes are awful.

Okay, so people think that it's a conspiracy, right?

That a bunch of white women are trying to take

Bill Cosby down?

Well, a third of us,

of his public survivors, are Black women.

There was this idea that, you know, he's being

Emmett Till-ed, if you will,

because these are white women

making these accusations against a Black man,

except it wasn't only white women.

People kind of, like, cut that part out,

that there were Black women

and, in the case of someone like Beverly Johnson,

a very well-known Black woman.

But that didn't fit the particular narrative

that they were trying to sell.

But we were talking suddenly about dozens of women.

And I think at some point,

the count stopped at, like, 60.

And you knew,

at least I felt I knew as a woman,

if it was 60,

it was probably 120 or 150.

[sighs]

Deep Black girl sigh. [chuckles]

Bill Cosby was not lynched.

Bill Cosby actively chose to be a perpetrator,

You know, this is when Black protectionism goes bad.

For Black women in particular,

when you have to tell your story,

and your story involves a Black male perpetrator,

what you carry is so much more than just the weight

of having been sexually assaulted.

There is a psychological burden

that is unbelievable.

It's very real.

Just as it was true for R. Kelly,

it's been true for Bill Cosby, it's been true

for other predators in the Black community

that the popular culture didn't care enough

about the victims to pick up the narrative.

It's often been Black women keeping that narrative alive.

But no, it's tough being a sister saying,

"No, Bill Cosby probably raped that woman."

Saying it not just on television and in essays,

which is one place to do it,

but saying it in your home, saying it at the cookout.

-[all] Stop the rape! -[Kamau] And let's be clear.

It's often the Black women doing the work

to protect our community.

Look at Tarana Burke

and the #MeToo movement she started,

Dream Hampton and her docuseries,

Surviving R. Kelly,

and Kenyette Barnes and Oronike Odeleye,

founders of the Mute R. Kelly campaign.

[all] We love you.

[Kamau] They did the big work

that the criminal justice system refused to do.

-[protestor] No justice-- -[all] No peace.

NBC canceled plans for a Bill Cosby sitcom.

[reporter] The comedian was set to make his return

to the small screen with the network

that made him a star in a new family comedy.

NBC has elected to drop the project

in light of recent events.

[Maureen] The head of NBC at the time,

Bob Greenblatt, said,

"Well, we were aware of allegations."

Plural.

And I'm paraphrasing what he said,

but "We were aware that there were settlements."

Plural.

But they did the deal anyway.

And then he says something like,

"Well, because now, it's 15 women.

It's not just two."

That's one of those days where I'm like,

"Launch this whole motherfucking industry

into the Sun."

soft dramatic music

We see what happens to individuals who come

and make allegations of sexual assault.

They find themselves vilified, discredited.

Every part of their background gets hauled into question.

"You drank too much.

You slept with too many people.

You didn't report. You're a liar."

[reporter] What has held you back

all these years from telling this story in detail?

The big question for a lot of people

is, why now?

Did you call anyone?

Do you call the police?

Do you tell a girlfriend?

Do you tell your mother? Do you tell anyone?

Why have you waited so long?

You took the pill. You drank the alcohol.

...and you put yourself in a position

to be close to him again. Why would you do that?

What were you doing to take that drink?

What were you doing there at 2 a.m.?

That's rape culture.

[Lise-Lotte] I remember telling my mom,

"Mom, I drank some alcohol, and I just don't remember,

and, oh, my God, he's just never--

I made an idiot of myself, you know?"

The funny part is, I did tell this story

to multiple people within the family.

So when my husband said,

"I want you to watch this interview.

You have to look at this interview,"

and I'm thinking to myself, "What are you talking about?

You know, why is this so urgent?"

And he has to initiate, he has to bring it out of me,

because I start to shut down.

And I'm getting--you can see

I'm getting shaky from it, but--

Okay.

[Kamau] One thing survivors of rape

and sexual assault need

is someone who is on their side.

-[Lise-Lotte] Hello. -[Benjamin] Hi.

[Kamau] Many don't have that person.

But Lise, she's got that person.

Why are you so far away? Come here.

[both laugh]

Give me a kiss.

-How you doing? -Good. All right.

You know, I do a lot of-- I go online,

I always watch CNN, Yahoo News,

Fox News, you name it.

So I saw the video of Janice Dickenson.

He had given me wine

and I had been

sexually assaulted by this man.

[Benjamin] And it was like

check marks started to go off.

It's like, "Check mark, that's just like Lise.

Check mark, that's just like Lise.

Check mark, that's just like Lise."

I sent her the video, and I said, you know,

"Give me a call after you see it,

like, right when you're done."

And so she walks through the door,

and it's like, nothing, you know?

So I turned to her and I look at her

and I said, "Hey, did you see that?

The interview with Janice Dickenson."

She said, "Yeah, you know, I saw the interview."

I said, "So what did you think about it?"

She goes, "I don't know what to think of it."

And I think later in the day,

I watched it again and I watched it again

and I was like, "Oh, my God.

This is real," you know?

Yeah.

And then I knew that she knew.

And now, this process of,

"Where do we go from here and...

what have we started?" begins.

Bill Cosby appears to think that rape is a joke.

Well, let me tell you something, Bill.

I'm not laughing.

I'm furious, and I've decided to fight for my rights

and the rights of every man, woman, and child

who have been victimized by sexual crime.

[Lili] I'm going through a divorce now,

but my soon-to-be ex-husband,

he was very instrumentally trying

to prevent me from going public.

He was like, "You can't go public!

You can't go public!"

I was like, "I have to go public!"

"You can't. You're gonna be a--

look at what's happening to the women.

They're gonna shame you and blame you,

and it was your fault anyway,

and why'd you go to his house

and"-- [buzzes]

And in the argument like this,

down comes Rafael.

He's like, "Mom, you mean--

this happened to you, Mom?

Why are you silent?

Mom, you got to speak out.

Mom, speak out. Speak out, Mom. Speak out."

So because of him, I spoke out.

After he had won my complete trust

and adoration,

he drugged and raped me.

Good evening.

Tonight, new and graphic details

about Bill Cosby's own admission

concerning drugs, hush money,

and sexual assault allegations.

The question was, why then?

Andrea Constand had filed her lawsuit prior to that.

Thirteen Jane Does came forward

to say they would testify.

Then it settled, and then we didn't hear anything more.

For that civil suit, Cosby was deposed.

But there was agreement

that that deposition be sealed.

Nobody was ever able to see it.

The judge argued because he had

kind of branded himself

as this public moralist during these callouts,

telling, you know, poor Black people

to pull their pants up and disparaging single moms,

this deposition should be unsealed.

And when that deposition was unsealed,

Cosby's own words sunk him.

[reporter] In a 2005 deposition,

Cosby admitted under oath

that he got a sedative

for the purpose of giving it to women

with whom he wanted to have sex.

[Kamau] Now, if you were a person who believed

Bill Cosby was capable of sexual assault and rape,

then this was all the evidence you needed.

But if you were a Bill Cosby defender,

then you could frame this

as Bill Cosby just being a celebrity

whose idea of a good time included drugs and sex.

But Bill Cosby said

something else in this deposition

which, as far as I'm concerned,

ends any debate.

[reporter] Cosby said the sexual encounters

with Constand were consensual.

"I don't hear her say anything," he said,

[Gloria] If Bill Cosby,

or any other person,

is drugging a woman,

he knows that she cannot consent.

That's why he's drugging her.

I must have read that 50 different times

and cringed 50 different ways each time I read it.

I mean, anybody,

certainly someone as intelligent as Bill Cosby,

understands that if it's not

a resounding yes from the woman,

then it's a no.

Bill Cosby was a rich and funny

and, I'm sure, very bright man.

He could have had sex with somebody

who agreed to have sex with him.

But he wanted to have sex with unconscious women,

and that's deviant.

If we actually grappled with the fact

that sex negativity is what causes

this type of behavior,

then we could create a world

where, in an idyllically sex-positive world,

someone is able to pay conscious women

to come and be drugged so that I can get my kink out,

my fetish on having sex with unconscious people.

There's a consensual way to do that.

I think one of the reasons that it was difficult

for people to really accept

that Cosby was

what he ultimately is

is that I don't think that people were willing

to countenance

that kind of exponent of hypocrisy.

It's just so different if someone trusts you

and you drug that person.

You know, that's where I struggle,

because here's a guy I love on one level,

but...

you do that to someone, you're a fucking monster.

You're a fucking monster.

Bill Cosby gave you a very clear pattern

that he engaged in.

He told you what he did.

He told you about the pills,

he told you that they went in drinks.

You took a little drop

-and you put it in a drink. -Drop it in the Coca-Cola.

He made that very clear without anybody else's help,

without any witness testimony,

without any other circumstantial evidence.

If I just go by what Bill Cosby tells me,

I know he's a creep.

Haven't you ever noticed after people have

some of my barbecue sauce, they get all huggy-buggy?

So if Bill Cosby tells us all of that,

why would I not believe the dozens of women

who have come forward and corroborated

the very same kinds of stories?

You know, there are, like, little indicators of things

that happened that you just go,

"Hmm, that was a little different."

And one of them was this story, you know,

that he told me where he was like,

"You know, life is good in the movies or whatever.

But you just be ready

because when this movie comes out,

you're gonna need two [bleep]

'cause the women are gonna be all over you."

I was like...

[uncomfortable laughter]

"No. What?"

"I'm sorry, Dr. Huxtable, what was that?"

[laughter]

A narcissist doesn't think they're doing anything wrong.

They think everybody else is wrong, except for them.

And I think that was indicative of Bill Cosby.

So if he drugged a woman,

he didn't think he was doing anything wrong.

He thought, you know, "This is okay

because I'm Bill Cosby.

I'm rich. I'm famous.

I'm not getting away with anything.

I'm not doing anything wrong in the first place."

Yes, I'm gonna be in Wheeling, West Virginia,

Capital Music Hall.

Eight o'clock show, that's right.

And you know I'll be hilarious.

Can't wait.

[reporter] Well, despite facing

two new allegations of sexual assault,

Bill Cosby is going on

with his stand-up comedy tour as planned.

[cheers and applause]

[Roland] I wasn't shocked at all

to see Bill Cosby go on tour

in the middle of this firestorm.

This was Bill Cosby saying, "Uh-uh.

I'm not gonna go into hiding.

I'm not going to buckle."

[reporter] Demonstrators are calling

for Cosby to quit performing.

He was cementing the fact that he was finished

because when you're far from finished,

you understand the changing tides.

And that's why people started showing up

and protesting, to say, "No,

the days of you being able to do what you do

and carry on as though nothing has happened

is over, buddy.

It's over."

[reporter] Good afternoon, and we're coming on the air

with breaking news.

Bill Cosby, just a short time ago,

arraigned on felony sexual assault charges

in a Pennsylvania courtroom.

He's accused of drugging and attacking a woman

in his home 12 years ago,

the statute of limitations in this case

expiring next month.

How did I feel when Cosby was charged?

I was elated but a little bit wary

that maybe justice wouldn't be served.

[reporter] It is one of the most

anticipated trials of the year.

[reporter] The actor and comedian has been accused

by more than 50 women.

[Gloria] In the Bill Cosby case,

it was also very important to have other women testify.

These were witnesses who also, for the most part,

alleged that they were drugged and sexually assaulted.

The jury can conclude

that because he had a pattern of drugging women,

he knew they could not consent.

The women that came forward did not consent

to be drugged and unconscious.

[Lili] It was a three-ring circus

in that courtroom, Kamau.

It was just like, "Damn, those"--it was like--

I was shocked to see

how much revictimization is allowed

in a rape trial.

Well, I was hired by the District Attorney

in Bill Cosby's trial to act as a blind expert.

First of all, you need to understand

that I grew up with Bill Cosby, too.

And I loved him.

I thought that he was really funny.

I didn't really look over at Bill Cosby,

except for during a break.

And when I looked over at him and he was smirking,

his demeanor was entirely consistent

with every other sex offender

that I'd ever testified in front of, you know?

And so I didn't have even a moment

of, you know, feeling starstruck.

[Janice] I was the lucky one that got Tom Mesereau

to cross-examine me.

He had the nerve to ask me so many stupid questions.

He tried to make it sound like we were all whores,

and what were we wearing that night,

and fuck him for that.

He is an asshole.

Susan B. Anthony said courage is the best protection

that a woman can have, and I believe it.

[Benjamin] I think seeing her testify was--

it was unbelievable.

And she's sitting there, you know, in the seat,

and Cosby's, you know, right across,

throwing distance.

They're asking her the questions,

"So what happened on this date?

What happened, you know-- and, you know,

he gave you a drink," and all this.

And you're sitting there and you're able

to tell your truth.

It--

you're the strongest woman I've ever known.

I've known.

You are.

I love you to death.

I love you, too.

tense music

[reporter] There is breaking news

in Bill Cosby's sexual assault retrial.

There has been a verdict.

The comedian, now 80, has been found guilty on all counts.

[reporter] A judge in Pennsylvania

has just sentenced Bill Cosby to no less than three

and no more than ten years behind bars.

It felt awful.

It felt really sad.

It felt like--

I mean, look,

the reality is, is he needed to go to prison.

He's a criminal.

But was I at home cheering?

No, I was like, "This is one of the worst--

...this is just a sad day

in the history of Black culture."

Actually, really more than anything,

what I felt sad about

is what it did to Black--

our Black culture.

And I said to my husband, I just said, "This sucks."

That will be a moment I will never forget.

Our friend texted one word to us in solid caps.

He texted the word "guilty."

We were standing in the pharmacy

and both of us-- and my husband's a big man,

and he doesn't cry-- both of us fell

into each other's arms and cried.

We just stood there crying because neither one of us

believed this would ever happen,

ever, ever, ever.

soft music

[Kamau] But Bill Cosby going to prison isn't justice

when we still have an entire system

that supports rape culture and doesn't believe women

when they say they've been sexually assaulted or raped.

This confirmation process has become a national disgrace.

[Kamau] So many of Bill Cosby's survivors

knew that even with him in prison,

there was more work to do.

We filed a report,

and then it was, like, a couple weeks later,

she gets a call from a detective

from the Las Vegas

Metropolitan Police Department.

He says he wants to interview her.

So she goes in.

It's like 45 minutes,

she comes out and she has this look on her face.

Just kind of this blank look, and I'm like, "So what's up?"

And she says, "They can't do anything about it

'cause of the statute of limitations."

And I said, "What do you mean,

the statute of limita-- I don't understand.

Like, I've never heard this before."

You only have four years to come forward,

and within those four years, if you don't come forward

after four years and one day, you don't have a case.

-So-- -So now I'm just--

Yeah, she's just falling apart.

It's worse.

And I walked downstairs

and I'm about to leave for work,

and then I go, "You know what?

we just gotta change the statute of limitations.

We just gotta get rid of it."

And she jumped out of bed

and she gave me the biggest hug.

She was so freaking elated.

And it did give us purpose. It gave me purpose.

[Benjamin] It was just two human beings,

a husband and a wife, a man and a woman,

who knew that something was wrong

and needed to be changed.

And that's what we did. We changed it.

When I called Gloria Allred and said,

"I'm thinking about joining a handful of others

in getting the statute of limitations

abolished in California,"

and she said, "Look, that-- you doing that is impossible.

You doing that would be like

if I said I want to learn to play baseball

and I go out and pitch for the Yankees tonight.

It's not gonna happen."

I realized that these women really wanted to speak out,

and there is no statute of limitations

on the right of free speech.

That can be exercised any time.

[all] Hey, hey, ho, ho,

[Gloria] And if they were willing to do it,

I would be willing to be supportive of it.

It was simple as that.

We worked on it nonstop.

We lobbied. We'd go to Sacramento.

I mean, we really made pests of ourselves.

We worked hard.

[reporter] California will become

one of more than a dozen states

to eliminate the statute of limitations

for sexual assault.

-Okay, ready, rolling? -[person] Rolling.

-Okay. -Yay!

The women's restroom.

This is where the revolution begins!

[all cheering]

[Kamau] But somewhere around this time,

I started thinking about this a lot.

Bill Cosby had been one of my heroes,

but this-- this was fucked up.

And difficult conversations is kinda what I do.

I figured there had to be something I could learn

from Bill Cosby being in prison

You guys, yay.

[Kamau] And just as we started to wrap this film...

-Thank you very much. -You're so welcome.

[Kamau] It was great. You're great.

[reporter] We have breaking news for you this hour.

Bill Cosby is now out of prison.

[Kamau] Oh, my God.

We just shot an interview and we were waiting

for Krissy Feden, who is a lawyer

who was involved in the Bill Cosby case.

And we were gonna ask a lot of, like, lawyer--

expert lawyer questions and--about his case

and about the fact that the key to his case

was the unsealing of a deposition

they weren't supposed to unseal, and is that okay?

And as we're getting ready for that,

my friend texts me and says,

"Your film just got more interesting."

And then I looked on Twitter, and everywhere I looked,

Bill Cosby is soon to be free.

So now we're sitting here and we don't know--

and I don't really know what this film is anymore.

[laughs]

And I'm--we're in Philly. And we're in Philly!

-[producer] Should we send-- -[cameraperson] Any camera.

Literally any camera. Even an iPhone will do.

-I agree. -[producer] I'm just saying,

do I just take my iPhone?

[producer] Yeah, we should move on this.

-Yeah, all right. -He's coming out.

-[producer] Yes. -[Kamau] Yeah.

-[producer] Okay. -[Kamau] We're moving on it.

-[producer] Uh-huh. -[Kamau] Thanks.

[crew member] Be safe out there.

[reporter] What a stunning reversal of fortune

for the comedian who was once known

as America's dad,

and this will shock many people today.

How did this reversal happen?

[person] I mean, it's a shock to everyone at this point.

[reporter] We knew that Cosby was appealing it,

but there were few people

who thought this would be successful.

[reporter] ...throughout his conviction,

saying prosecutors violated the deal

meant to shield Cosby from criminal prosecution.

[fan] We love you, Mr. Cosby!

[fan] We love you!

[reporter] Bill Cosby has not been exonerated.

Nobody has said he is innocent.

[fan] We love you, sir!

Mr. Cosby has always used his celebrity, his name,

his likeness to uplift women.

What we saw today was justice,

justice for all Americans.

I'm outraged. I'm infuriated.

How anybody could allow a little legal glitch

to release a sociopath

who had no concern...

I know we're all so angry, we can't even see straight.

[fan] Love you, Bill.

Love you. I love you!

[chatter]

[person] That was a Kodak moment.

I'm going to, in the words

of brother Malcolm, make it plain.

The prosecutor in Montgomery County

told Bill Cosby,

"Hey, we're going to protect your rights

against self-incrimination.

We are going to, in effect,

give you immunity so you can say

anything you want about anything you did,

and I'm telling you, Mr. Cosby,

that nothing you say at these depositions

will be used against you.

In fact, you don't have to worry

about it being used against you

because we're never going to prosecute you.

But if we do prosecute you,

we're not going to use what you said."

So Bill Cosby said what he said.

A new DA comes in and says,

"Forget what the other DA said.

We changed our mind."

You can't do that. You just can't do that.

And that's why I said to you, Kamau,

and everybody else who asked me,

it was a good decision

by the Supreme Court for a bad man.

I thought, "Oh, this man's gonna be in prison

for ten years. He's gonna to die."

And all of a sudden, my phone just explodes, right,

with a plethora of texts and phone calls and emails.

And they're like, "Did you hear the news?"

And at first, I'm thinking, "Oh, did he die?"

They're like, "He's--

the Supreme Court approved his appeal.

It's been overturned. He's not--he's free.

He's going home."

And I just start sobbing.

melancholy music

[sighs]

That was like getting coldcocked.

Didn't see it coming.

There's something deeply wrong,

and we don't have reform

for sexual predators in our country.

We just put him in jail, and when he comes out,

he's still-- he hasn't had any help.

Sad, you know. Yeah.

I don't personally believe

that prison is much of a solution.

It hasn't stopped crime. It hasn't stopped rape.

I don't think that prisons and police are our savior.

I don't think that they make the world safer.

And so when I think about

an elderly Bill Cosby being in jail,

that doesn't look like justice to me.

Justice looks like those scores of women

not being raped and not being drugged,

not being preyed upon,

not experiencing all kinds of trauma memories

that they will carry with them for the rest of their lives.

And I felt really sorry for the women.

Every woman who, again,

got dragged to filth for speaking the truth

after saying nothing for decades.

And finally having the fortitude to do that

and being lambasted for it.

That's who I feel sorry for.

I don't feel sorry for Bill Cosby.

All of his troubles were on him.

He created all of it.

-[Kamau] Drink some water. -I do not like that man.

[Kamau chuckles]

Immediately after Cosby was released,

that kind of churning happened again.

Like, you felt that the folks who never really understood

what this thing was about to begin with

now feel like they have a case to make.

[Marc] It was stunning how many people were

defending Bill Cosby.

And it's not something that we can defend.

You have to ask the question,

what investment do we have as a culture,

what investment do we have as men,

in Bill Cosby being innocent?

[Sonalee] He is seen as America's dad,

but also, like, America has a rape problem.

Like, America's dads have a rape problem.

[Lili] It's not just one wicked man.

It's patriarchy.

It's not just Bill Cosby, it's misogyny.

It's hatred towards women.

It's generations of this.

Can I have some of the queen's waters?

Precious waters.

[aide] Thank you.

Where's that Bill Cosby pill I brought with me?

[uncomfortable laughter]

-[chuckles] -[aide] Whoa. Okay.

[Matt] Good morning. Nice to see you.

-Morning, Matt. -Seen a lot of you lately.

Let's just get it out of the way.

You had a little wardrobe malfunction.

Mm.

Charlie, don't you like a girl in wings?

-I need to get me some wings. -No, I--

I like a girl in Victoria's Secret.

Okay.

But I enjoyed seeing you as a bunny.

-Thank you. -I did.

[Maureen] We will not eliminate rape culture

until we change the culture,

foundationally, institutionally,

in every possible way.

How about a little hug for the Donald? He just--

[Maureen] What I would say to all those people,

some of whom still have a lot of money

that they made from Bill Cosby projects,

still have a lot of influence,

if you are one of those now saying "I didn't know,"

you know now.

What are you doing now to provide

systems of transparency and reliable accountability

and change?

We're at the beginning of those conversations.

We didn't fix anything.

In Hollywood and all across North America,

there's a chain of old theaters

called the Pantages.

Pantages Theaters.

Alexander Pantages was on the front page

of every newspaper in 1929 for the biggest rape scandal

in showbiz history up to that point.

He was charged with statutory rape,

first degree rape, on and on and on and on.

To this day, there's theaters all over the place

called the Pantages.

Nobody even thinks about it.

People will forget about the worst crimes in history.

Kamau, I honestly think

that the worst part

about Cosby

being released this way

is the impact,

the potential impact it has on survivors

coming forward tomorrow.

At the end of the day, the messaging,

what people understand and what they take from this

is that it's not safe.

I shouldn't tell. Nothing will happen.

And if it does, it probably won't stick.

It's a horrible, horrible, horrible message

to send to women.

[Kamau] And just look at this.

This represents the more than 60 women

that we know about

who have accused Bill Cosby of sexual assault or rape.

And while I worked on this series,

I heard about others who didn't come forward

because they didn't want to go through

what these women went through and still go through.

somber music

Who was the comedian for you?

Well, the comedian was Bill Cosby.

[Stephen] Of course.

Those albums-- I had never heard--

"Very Funny Fellow... Right!" "Wonderfulness."

-"Why Is There Air?" -Uh-huh.

Greatest...

what's the word-- body of work...

[Stephen] Mm-hmm.

...I think in comedy is his.

Can you still listen to his comedy?

-Oh, yeah. -I can't listen to it now.

No. Oh, you can't?

[Stephen] I just can't separate it.

-You can't separate it? -I can't.

Hmm.

[Kamau] In the last few years,

we have asked ourselves these questions

over and over again.

Can you separate the art from the artist?

And should you?

What happens when the artist you idolized

isn't the human being you thought they were?

And what if that person's artistic achievement,

living example, and good works

were so great that they changed the world?

What then?

That's the Bill Cosby question.

The legacy of Bill Cosby, you know, for me

is somebody who was a tremendous entertainer,

someone who made, for a period time,

a lot of Black kids and Black families

and Black people feel much better about themselves

than they were used to feeling,

who was amazingly gifted in that area.

But also a shitty-ass person.

Bill Cosby is a master at his craft.

Whether it be acting, comedy,

or raping,

he is a master at it.

Rapist.

He's a rapist who had a really big TV show once.

I don't--I can't think of Bill Cosby any other way.

I love Mr. Cosby.

I'm always going to love Mr. Cosby,

irrespective of the circumstances

surrounding his life.

The love will be there,

and I'm not gonna budge from that, you know?

I'm not the kind of person that will walk away

from someone, no matter what the circumstances.

The last thing he said to me on the phone was,

"Nobody's perfect."

And I think that's ironic.

You cannot truthfully speak

about Black America

in the second half of the 20th century

and not talk about

the influence of Bill Cosby.

soft jazz music

Hey, hey, hey.

Really? Good.

[fan] I just love you so much.

Why did you do it? I don't know.

[laughter]

[Godfrey] This is probably one of

the biggest disappointments

in American history, 'cause I thought

he was gonna close his chapter like, "Yeah.

Uh. The greatest comic ever.

Look what I did for our people.

Look what I did for America. Yes!"

But man, the ending is a torn page.

[mimics page tearing]

Maybe we should never have invested in him

in that way in the first place.

You can say that in retrospect.

It's almost impossible to think that we wouldn't,

given the circumstances

and given the context that he emerged in,

given how sorely we needed heroes,

how desperately we were invested in the idea

that we knew we were more human

than the depictions of us had yielded.

There's still that yearning

for us to be seen

in a way that redeems us.

Bill Cosby is...

a catalyst

for understanding

the American experiment.

[Kamau] This is hard.

Honestly, there were times when I was making this

that I wanted to quit.

I wanted to hold on to my memories of Bill Cosby

before I knew about Bill Cosby.

And I guess I can, as long as I admit,

and as long as we all admit,

that there's just a Bill Cosby we didn't know.

I was the best knot-tier in--

[Kamau] And if we really learned the lessons

that this Bill Cosby was trying to teach us,

to be smart and moral and not just to be good

but also to do good,

then we can all help create a world

that makes this Bill Cosby

and others like him less possible.

-Yes. -Yes.

Of course, yeah.

Yeah. Regrettably.

I knew a girl who just said,

"Yeah, he was a friend of family.

He just took it." Just took--just--

In my family, yeah.

The question is often, like,

"Have you ever experienced rape?"

But is the question ever asked,

like, "Hey, have you ever raped somebody?